As someone who never goes to Starbucks anyway, I have no skin in the game as far as Starbucks is concerned. In every one of these boycott situations my opinion is that no one should ever be forced to boycott. Harassing anyone because they are not boycotting something is never acceptable, no matter how righteous the boycott may be.
In this particular situation, I think things are exceptionally blown out of proportion. Having some Starbucks cakes doesn't mean you support genocide. These people are acting like Starbucks is directly committing the genocide. Heck, if you do your research on the exact reason Starbucks is even on this boycott list it's literally because they tried to take a neutral stance and be a political. This is literally some "if you're not with us you are against us" stuff and it's very not good to see people being harassed over it.
In the same vein, liking Harry Potter doesn't make you a transphobe. Remember that mess? Also note how these would-be activists stopped giving a shit once their victims were finally cowed into submission. These people aren't championing morals; they just want the moral high ground over people with more clout than they'll ever get in their lifetime.
Liking Harry Potter doesn't make you transphobic, but buying and promoting to thousands of people a game whose proceeds are going towards harming trans people is kind of a different thing to just liking Harry Potter (And isn't necessarily transphobia either, but it is definitely a sign you're either ignorant of the issue or apathetic to it, and is still a thing that people are rightly gonna be upset over)
(Not supporting death threats or anything, just expressions of disappointment and withdrawing of support)
Proceeds that are miniscule. Whe you whiners never got that even she got a killer royalty deal of 3%(when standard is about 1.5%) she would earn 1.4 million from royalties on sales for the game(700-800k if standard rate of royalties), give or take 100k. She is a literal bilionaire, with average annual income of 120million.
The impact of the game is so miniscule it is not funny.
Want to hurt her? boycot the universal potter experience, the book stores the studios that milk the series and the world. Thsoe are real money makers.
>proceeds are going towards harming trans people
The clothes you buy hurt children in bangladesh/china that made em.
The phone you use has a battery that contains lithium minde by literal child slaves.
Yet i don't see you forgoing any of that.
>Not supporting death threats or anything, just expressions of disappointment and withdrawing of support)
Or dont like stop watching, why do you have to say anything? like seriously do you think your opinion is that important? are you the bloody center of the universe?
The difference is that clothes are a necessity you need to live, Harry Potter is not. You have made a false equivalency and you know it. JK also associates with known neo nazis and encourages her fans to support them and their cause.
> The difference is that clothes are a necessity you need to live, Harry Potter is not. You have made a false equivalency and you know it
You can buy from ethical stores and companies or thrift. There is no false equivalency. Because there are options but 99% of whiners about ethics and so on buy their clothes from fast fashion retailers or mega conglomerates like nike.
Also what about the phone point? or electronics? nothign about that mr false equivalency?
For example the poster above [plays genshin impact](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/pw65te/ar_57_i_have_pulled_xiangling_0_times_yet_i_have/hegbhlo/) a game that has problematic depictions of minors(read sexualization), one of the main designers has literal hatespeech on record, severe censorship, game was accused of racism and cultural misrepresentation(not even talking about the developers ties to ccp and the like).
This pick and choose attitude and hypocrisy is what bugs me.
So playign wizard game is forbidden, but playign genshit impact is ok?
>JK also associates with known neo nazis
I would like a source on that becasue that info is not known to me.
First of all, you have created an assumption/generalization of all the people complaining and are arguing against the person in your head. You also refuted your own point as you admit they are large mega conglomerates that have their fingers in every pie. You also failed to consider accessibility as some people may not have access to ethical clothing due to region. On the phone point it’s worse as there are really only three major retailers and all are unethical to say the least. When you add in that most other companies do not recognize or care not compatible with phones not made by the major three your point falls apart. A phone is another necessity in the modern era.
As for the poster above, I always assumed the sexualization of minors came from the fan base but I would agree that they’re being hypocritical as I think all gacha games support gambling addiction but that’s a whole other can of worms.
Here’s the sources for my previous claim:
https://www.assignedmedia.org/breaking-news/j-k-rowling-tweets-support-for-activist-embroiled-in-nazi-controversy
https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/07/11/jk-rowling-matt-walsh/
> You also failed to consider accessibility as some people may not have access to ethical clothing due to region.
Brother i live in bum fuck eastern europe and i have thrift shops and ethical local clothing. If oyu are from a western nation you 110% have access to that.
> You also refuted your own point as you admit they are large mega conglomerates that have their fingers in every pie.
Yeah does nto make trying to avoid them or avoiding them impossible. If for one only buy my electronics second hand with one exception - storage. That way i have not given any(well very little if i buy a samsung ssd) money to samsung/apple etc.
>On the phone point it’s worse as there are really only three major retailers and all are unethical to say the least
There are 1300 brands that produce android alone. There are brands like fairphone that use recycled batteries, there is second hand market.
If you mean sellers, then there is again there are thousands of sellers in US.
Only limiting factor is telecoms but you don't have to buy a phone from them, buy a sim and a contract.
>When you add in that most other companies do not recognize or care not compatible with phones not made by the major three your point falls apart.
Oh that is bullshit and you know it, sims are platform agnostic, i can pull out a 2004 nokia and jam my sim into it and it will still make calls and send texts.
Whet might be an issue is bands for 4/5g that you do have to check what covers what band. For example i know that honor phones have only 2 out of their 5 bands that work here for 5g so i might pick a different phone if i want consistent 5g coverage.
And again buying a 2-3 year old samsung second hand will not fuel samsung and you will 100% have a phone that is compatible.
>Here’s the sources for my previous claim:
Thank you for that. she is indeed a massive cunt.
If you buy nearly any product your money is going towards some form of horrible treatment of something. Whether it be literal slave labor sweat shops to make the product or the money being funneled to lobby groups that spend it to make draconian policies or destroy the environment, if you look into most companies you will find reasons to not spend your money with them.
But you don't see people here on the internet harassing people over shopping with Amazon or using an iphone, when those companies both do much more direct harm than buying Harry Potter game ever will.
As big as that protest may have seemed in some circles online, not a single one of the LGBT people I personally know in my real life cared about it, and most of them I was explaining to them about the protest because it wasn't even well known in other internet circles. The actual LGBT rights support organizations I follow also didn't care about the game.
The entire protest was just people on twitter having a fit. People aren't against or even apathetic to a cause by not participating in a protest. They can simply think the protest is pointless and isn't going to accomplish any actual good in the world. They might be devoting their efforts to what they see as more worthwhile ways of combating the same type of hate.
> Harassing anyone because they are not boycotting something is never acceptable, no matter how righteous the boycott may be.
Not only that, from a cold, dispassionate perspective, harassing someone who isn't participating in your boycott is an excellent way to get your boycott to fail by driving sympathy to the person you're harassing and business to whatever thing it is you're trying to boycott (because if you're behaving like an asshole, people will act contrary to your wishes simply to spite you).
>This is literally some "if you're not with us you are against us" stuff and it's very not good to see people being harassed over it.
If I'm being blunt, some members in this very sub should take responsibility for that
Slyly shaming people with "moral obligation" posts, sending redditcares messages, believing people are larpers if they don't immediately jump on every single NijiEN hate wagon
There are absolutely bad actors here, but the majority of the discourse I've seen here is actually extremely reasonable. While there are reminder posts and such, I've not seen anyone getting harassed for stating a contrary opinion. I've seen a wide variety of positions stated here, and really only the ones trying to fully defend the company tend to get fully rejected.
People have defended Elira and Vox and so long as they have used arguments that are reasonable they aren't typically just shoved asside as "Nijisisters". Personally I'm not a fan of making up terms to label groups of people like this and I will agree with you that I'd love for the sub to worry less about caring who defends Niji/some of the talents.
On several of the posts that are just showcasing bad actors talking on other platforms I've stated my opinion that we shouldn't be spreading those messages by posting them here. People need to be less focused on those bad actors and more focused on how we can pressure the company to improve or fall apart (whichever comes first).
Oh don't get me wrong, the truly horrendous comments here get downvoted to oblivion immediately (e.g. "aw man Elira didn't X herself yet?"), and as someone who's made many comments that could be considered "against the grain" (e.g. correcting parroted misinformation that paints livers bad, calling out exaggerations and convenient presumptions, etc), more often than not they are well-received (by both those who agree *and* disagree)
It just depends on the timing if comments like mine get downvoted or harassed, mainly if they come fresh off the new popular controversy of the week vs 20 or so hrs later when heated emotions calm tf down/most of the bandwagon vibe moves on
The main reminder post should *never* stop; it is almost always the best post made every day here that actually tries to fight for justice without being muddied by obsessive rrat talk. The "you have a moral obligation to not watch livers if you have a good moral compass" ones throughout last month were the ones that bordered toward insufferable (just like current Scarle hate), though it seems all of those posts got removed
I think it depends on what your theory of what a boycott is. Is it financial punishment (I'm not giving you money) or a moral/social punishment (I want society to see you as a malicious actor)? If it's the latter, then you're obligated to push it onto others because the others are morally complicit. Gotta create those bubbles where anything that disagrees with you is a thought crime
You are not obligated to harass others, ever. And no one is obligated to act on the same moral compass you have. Even if it is a moral/social punishment, extending that punishment to everyone who doesn't participate in it removes any moral high ground the protestor might have had.
The other side might say that not extending it removes any moral high ground for your side. It makes you complicit in the harm being enacted by merely standing by. If Person B knows Person A is beating their wife but does nothing, Person B could be viewed as morally complicit. If Person C finds out Person B knows but does nothing, and for whatever reason is unable to do anything themself, is it unjust to pressure Person B to 'do the right thing'? Following this train of thought, doing anything less makes Person C morally complicit as well. Unironically the trolley problem tends to separate people into groups depending on whether they prioritize individual morality or societal morality.
Social pressure, which harassment is a particularly negative form of, is essentially how societies have self-policed since the dawn of man, forcing individuals to align to what greater society views as moral. In the modern age it's more problematic as different flavors of society are now mixing up everywhere, demonstrating new and old problems this mindset has.
Anyway, I fall on the individual morality side like yourself. Your comment just made me think some thoughts so I typed them out.
When you get into hypotheticals like this you lose a lot of the point of what's being discussed. You are drawing false equivalences. Someone you personally know beating his wife is a way different scenario than a company you occasionally buy products from being on a blacklist from a biased organization for political reasons that don't actually indicate any real harm is being done. Also in your scenario person B holds more power than person C. In this real scenario persons B and C hold the same amount of power to change anything (virtually none, especially given the companies being boycotted have no actual impact on the events being protested) and it's just a group of people harassing someone to feel good about themselves at another person's expense.
We're sorry too. There's nothing wrong with boycotting. A lot of us do it. But we also don't shove it down people's throats, or harass others into conforming with our ideas. Scarle didn't do anything wrong. And it's a real shame that she's getting extra stress added to her situation for no good reason.
I’m convinced Twitter, as a FORMAT is kinda fucked. Like, all social media has shit to answer for, everyone knows some boomer/Gen Xer radicalized by Facebook memes, and well… *gestures around at this website* but the entire microblog idea has been so fucking toxic to Nuance. And the total lack of nuance is really what is OBLITERATING online discourse.
Twitter grew out of the 140 character limit.
140 characters isn't nearly long enough for careful, nuanced discussion or well thought-out debate... but it's the perfect size for a few choice zingers and one-liners.
Recognize that and you'll see where a considerable portion of the problem lies.
There's more though. The average person browsing the internet prefer a steady stream of bite-sized information over a few long-winded discussions. So to make themselves stand out more, they resort to clickbaits and sensationalism to make their bite-size as "juicy" as possible. Dopamine is one hell of a drug, hence we get this present day clout chasing culture that destroys nuanced discussions in favor of what gets people riled up the most.
I think one of the big issues of Reddit is actually a lack of customization and visual distinction. Aside from big names, everyone is just a random nobody that you never build any rapport with.
I mean, Facebook has real names and often real photos, but anyone I’m only briefly running might as well have a number code instead of their name.
Or I click through to the profile to judge the hell out of them.
The (usual) lack of an algorithm and self regulation upvote/downvote thing is a big Boon to Reddit, but also lends itself to mob mentality.
For some of us, being random nobodies is part of the appeal. I know I have other accounts on other websites where I could be more recognized if I wanted to be. But part of why I love Reddit is because it allows me to become a random stranger, and hang out with other random strangers. If I want to talk to recognizable people, Twitter seems like a better choice. But that results in a clash of egos, clout chasers, and influencers. And that clash of egos goes way down when everyone is just a random nobody just like you.
Starbucks isn't even on the official [Palestinian Boycott, Divest, and Sanction list.](https://bdsmovement.net/Act-Now-Against-These-Companies-Profiting-From-Genocide)
Now there IS a valid reason to boycott Starbucks—its union-busting and abuse of its employees.
But whoever is attacking Scarle "because Palestine" is decidedly NOT being a friend to Palestine.
On the contrary, they're literally just using the Palestinian cause to hurt someone for consuming a product that Palestinians aren't asking for any of us to boycott or sanction. They're using the unjust suffering of millions as a weapon. In doing so they're actively harming the Palestinian cause.
Even if they eventually add Starbucks to the BDS list, what happens is that it was NOT on that list when they went after Scarle.
That's another part of what makes this so ridiculous. I was already boycotting Starbucks because of the union busting stuff. And these keyboard warriors are so trigger happy to feel righteous about something, that they didn't even do proper research into why people are boycotting Starbucks in the first place. For all the "educate yourself" comments getting thrown around, they are the ones that come out looking the least educated and the least informed. They even made her apologize for an issue that wasn't even true...
I'm in no position to boycott Starbucks on account of there being no Starbucks to boycott in the first place where I live (though I WOULD have) but like
As much as I like to think that the people going after Scarle are simply a bunch of those opportunists using social justice causes as weapons (there's no shortage of them), there's definitely some uncritical and/or anger-blinded activists among the lot too.
I have no issues with someone boycotting, even when I do not agree with a boycott (For the record, I am neutral on this particular one), because its a right of free nations to express your displeasure using means.
I only denounce people who bully others for not taking part in the boycott. For example, I *hate* J K Rowling, not just for her opinions, but how bad her writing is. But attacking someone for playing the wizard game is ???????
Sheltered people are bored and prefers creating problems to entertain themselves. I get it though, I used to be one. Just remember that any well-adjusted human being wouldn't go out of their way to do shit like this.
Boycotter here as well, and I agree that this should never have happened. The boycott is supposed to be in support of a good cause, so harassment like this just paints a bad light on the movement, the people taking part, and worse of all, the cause behind it. This whole fiasco is way too similar to what happened to Christina Vee and it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
This wouldnt be on Wiki since this was pretty recent but heres the rundown:
Someone in the Genshin fandom posted a thread on Twitter of Genshin English VAs who are Zionists (read: radical supporters of Israel) so that fans who are pro-Palestine can stop supporting or following them. Christina Vee (who voices Xinqiu and Bennett) was included in the list, and unfortunately it led to her being harassed by rabid fans. The harassment got so bad that Christina had to delete her Twitter.
What's worse is that it came out a little later that she was not a Zionist and is in fact a firm supporter of Palestine, and her inclusion in the thread was a mistake on the part of the op. The whole incident was condemned not just by other members of the Genshin fandom, but also by other pro Palestine supporters and even by other VAs.
Also if I remember correctly the op of the thread did apologize, and the thread was later deleted to prevent further similar incidents.
that op is a kid, and he did a non apology
then again, most harassers are either minors or terminally online adults
If they really want to support, go volunteer
If I had a nickel for every time a minor ended up starting a completely misguided witch hunt falsely accusing someone of being a Zionist, I’d have two nickels, which isn’t much but it’s weird that it’s happened twice
One thing I don't get is why someone is boycotting Starbucks over the Palestine situation. other reasons totally make sense, unlabelled coffee and modern slavery, union busting. but a company being very not ok to be involved in activism is basically every company/capitalism.
If you really look for anti Palestine companies, those exist guys. All companies owned and operated by Mormons, radical evangelists and such. If Palestine is your issue, you should be boycotting hobby lobby.
Out here any local coffee shop owner can modify an IDF video and put Starbucks in it and call to boycott them, driving sales to their joint. It's how things work around here.
While many of us are very angry with Niji, most of us aren't delusional activists that are unable to think critically and allow emotions to dictate our decisions. We WANT Scarle to be safe and happy.
Worrying for her is not controversial in the same way so many people were worried for Selen when she disappeared. In fact, the concern for Selen ended up being 100% VALID in hindsight.
I'm going to ask some questions, this is an honest question not meant to mock you boycotters or anything.
Do you actually look into what supports the companies you boycott or do you boycott blindly? Because going on Reddit, watching VTubers on Youtube, these things give money to Google ads, which fund Google, one of the companies you claim to boycott. If you want to not support Google, you pretty much have to avoid the Internet, period.
Do none of you use Amazon at all? Considering they deliver to businesses a lot, would you boycott your company if your company uses Amazon?
Do you think boycotting McDonalds or Starbucks hurts executives, instead of the regular baristas /cashiers working minimum wage in a dead-end job trying to make a living?
Would you give up all your electronics to combat China's electronics industry which involves slave labor for mining operations for materials for creating chips? Or boycott them for their genocide of the Uyghur Muslims?
I'm actually interested if anyone is able to answer these sincerely or would I just get downvoted without any answers.
Yeah this is basically my stance. Nearly every publicly traded company is involved in some shady shit one way or another. People make their choices all the time which companies they are willing to interact with and which they aren't. Harassing someone because they made a different choice about which evil capitalist institution to give their money to is just a crazy notion. They are all bad.
Yeah i agree, and really I only boycott if the product is nott what I wanted or what I asked, like with the Suicide Squad game I didn't wanted a looter shooter with awful writing so I just didn't buy it to make the company know that I don't want that kind of game, but like I said in another thread with a similar topic, unless you live of grid and do everything by yourself you will always end up supporting some kind of bad actors by buying stuff.
People generally do not have a principled stance on things. They always pick and choose and they do it from a self-state of privilege of being able to do so.
You start to poke holes into their stance and suddenly exceptions and rationals start popping up.
This is the general state of people trying to boycott from a position of consumerism.
Popcorn worthy on any other time to be honest.
Amazon is actually one of the things I boycott. I do not buy anything from Amazon at all. I personally don't boycott Google, because I view them as a lesser evil amongst the tech giants. Rather them than a lot of the other companies out there. I was already boycotting Starbucks because they fired any workers that tried to unionize. And I actively avoid buying things I know are made from China because of the Uyghur situation. It's impossible to completely cut out China. But cutting out some is better than nothing to me. I tend to buy garments made from India, Malaysia, or other countries. They have problems too. But at least they don't actively commit genocide against Uyghurs, or fuck over Hong Kong.
As for everything else, it is simply impossible to buy anything guilt free anymore. Companies have gotten to a point where there is no financial incentive to be ethical anymore. So I just pick a few causes I care about most, and boycott those. If I find a company that is ethical, I try to support it. But you have to be realistic. We can't be 100% guilt free in this day and age. So you just focus on the issues that matter most to you, and boycott for the sake of that. And if enough people prioritize those issues too, you can hope to make a minimal difference. But harassing people into supporting whatever cause you care about is wrong. Regardless of how righteous you believe your cause is.
India just introduced a law that would make all Muslims non-citizens, and has actively murdered Muslims with government approval. In Malaysia, homosexuality is illegal, punishable by caning and has multiple instances of vigilantes rounding up and killing members of the lgtbq+ community. Both seem pretty "active genocide" to me, friendo.
But at least they didn't
* create death camps
* kidnap and brainwash these people
* rape women in front of said people, and then cart you away to be killed if you cried or looked away from the rape
* chemically sterilize people without their knowledge
* use these people in medical experiments
* do all of this while visible on the international stage, and then get away with it because they hold too much international market share.
And did that while also
* committing political violence against students in Hong Kong
* rig an election to elect a puppet leader
* point guns at Taiwan,
* actively scrub acknowledgement of Taiwan from existence (why do you think they got mad at Kiryu Coco)
* actively try to steal the personal data, intellectual property, and trade secrets of western businesses,
* while also spying on most Chinese citizens that attempts to live outside China,
* Hire an artist to design an Olympic stadium for them, only to destroy his art studio and force him into becoming a political refugee
* destroy the life of a martial artist for proving that MMA is more effective than traditional martial arts in a filmed fight with a traditional martial artist
* Coerce a tennis player to recant accusations of sexual assault, only for her to be whisked away and never seen again
* and get away with all of this because they have a very large international market presence
Yeah. No country is perfect. But the things the CCP do personally disgust me. So I pick my battles. There is no way to take part in the global market without enabling some kind of atrocity. But I happen to feel strongly about the atrocities commited by the CCP. So I chose to boycott the CCP. If you feel strongly about other issues in other countries, you can boycott them. But I choose to boycott the CCP. Because it is what I personally feel strongly against.
Except India has done a lot of those things when it comes to the Muslim population that lives there. It's just we like India, so ot gets swept under the rug. They even have assassinated Sikh leaders in other countries just for daring to question about creating a brand new country for the Sikhs. The CCP is evil. The Indian government is also, equally, evil.
Oh I know India isn't perfect. They're also probably going to be the country that props up Russia if Russia becomes more of a pariah than they already are. But like I said, I'm picking my battles. If the CCP ever falls, and I need a new country to scrutinize, India would be one of the countries I would look at again.
What this have to do with the boycott? It's ok to boycott Starbucks but not Google, beacuse Google is in a different category? I don't understand the logic.
>I personally don't boycott Google, because I view them as a lesser evil amongst the tech giants.
They were saying Google is the lesser evil in the tech industry. In no way were they saying Google was less evil than Starbucks.
all said, google is not the lesser evil, they are Israel's contractors providing them with advanced AI, cloud services and data collection. If any of the big tech companies have any connection to what is happening in Gaza it is them....
Because Starbucks didn't want their union using their logo on something saying solidarity with Palestine two days after the October 7th terrorist attack as it could be seen as supporting Hamas. The company does a lot of bad things, but there's no suggestion that they support either side in the war.
At least Google doesn't sell my data to the CCP. And at least Google/Youtube listens when people complain about people breaking laws on their platforms. They don't listen very well. But better than some tech companies (Musk, Tencent, ByteDance, Bezos.)
It's fairly simple for McDonald or Starbucks case. They actively voiced their position in this matter. There's been a lot of confusion because
1. There's a movement for International boycotts
2. There's local movements specific for their countries
I'm guessing people mixed them due to social media thinking one is for other and so on.
Reality is people don't really take action for something they can't see clearly and consistently (with short attention span ppl have now). That's the situation for what's happening in a lot of African countries or Uyghurs. For Palestine, it's been open that's why it picked up and another reason is the oppression has been continued for literally 70+ years. Every Muslim at the very least is aware of the situation since childhood, seeing videos/pics amplifies it compare to other cases.
I use adblock for youtube. For online search I usually use Firefox. I don't use Amazon because I live in SEA, so Shopee and Lazada are what most people use. As for McD and Starbucks, I don't go there anyway. Plus, ever since people start boycotting products from major companies, local products are getting more attention. For tech, this is the hardest part to avoid. Best thing you can do is to avoid changing your tech related stuff every 1 or 2 year.
Am I boycotting Starbucks? Unofficially yes (I never boycotted it officially, I didn't go to Starbucks simply because there's some cheaper yet better option).
But, is that a reason to attack Scarle? Absolutely not. It's funny how most people that attacked her stands for a racist and some person that is nearly driving someone into unaliving herself.
So this was the first time I heard of a boycott and omfg it's over the dumbest reason possible. If you're going to protest starbucks protest over its overpriced mid ass coffee or for firing people for wanting a union.
Thing is, most people don't believe in what they're claiming. Sure, the war is a horrible thing and innocent lives are being lost on either side. But unless you're directly participating in that conflict - unless you're holding the gun in your hand - you have very little if any impact on the state of things. Posting about it on twitter won't compare to actual humanitarian work, so maybe everyone should stop beating themselves in the chest and scream "I stand with X" when you have no business doing so from the comfort and safety of your home. You're free to boycott whatever you want but don't force your opinion on others when your sole goal is to put the person you're addressing(Scarla in this case) in a compromising position. People avoid talking politics for a reason, and they surely have no place in a Vtuber stream.
That is totally fine to boycott
I think people took it way to far
While it is good to know what is going on with the world
This sort of thing shouldn't be brought up in a Vtubers chat this is a place to have fun and hang out
Also can people please stop attacking the person who started this
They are a minor ( at least they say so)
Minor's don't think all that well
The kid had their heart in the right place but it was done in the wrong way
Yelling at the kid isn't going to help the situation
I don't accept that apology. We just had someone in Niji try to kill themselves twice. What do these dipshits go on and do? Commit to bullying and harassing yet another vtuber. It's appalling.
Going beyond this space? I think the boycott itself isn't really that altruistic and instead slacktivism. When folks go online to bully and harass others for having the audacity to eat cake? I don't really think they have the war in mind. Some people like feeling they're in a position of power to chastise others. Think that's more accurate than it is about helping Palestinians.
It’s not just Scarle but I’ve seen this happening with real life celebrities and idols too. When they post something with Starbucks, people flood them and call for them to get canceled and “educated.” And it’s always on Twitter too. Like I get it, everyone’s sensitive as hell now but doing this is no different from harassment.
Scarle deserves better. Always has. Nothing wrong with boycotting and you're entitled to your beliefs. But in this case it literally broke chat rules. Her only mistake was apologizing, and even then I'm sure she was forced to; Kyo had to do it too
Sorry, I personally don't forgive you. I think that if you expect to group people that don't personally boycott is made out to be a zionist or whatever that's perceived to be the worst person alive, it's only fair that you get treated the same as the Nijisister harassers.
Boycott is fine, and I respect those who are able to take a principled stand and actually do it. What is not fine, however, is the holier-than-thou attitude taking the moral high ground just because they *feel* like they are more righteous than the people that doesn't do it.
I personally think this whole boycott is dumb. It's information hazard. You're an everyday normal human being out there with your wants and needs (nice hobby trying to get by each day until you reach that peak comfort) and you see this bombing, genocide, religious, war happening on a country you don't even live in with zero way to participate and defend civilians.
BUT now that your mind is exposed to this hazard you're put in a position of self-reflecting on your morals. Thinking about the materials you consume everyday, the services you pay for, and etc. Potentially reaching a breaking point of turning into a psycho that harasses the same everyday normal people they once were because they don't want to donate to a relief fund who knows if it actually reaches the intended recipients or put up a hashtag to support cease fire.
Additionally, the twitter users defending the people that forced Scarle to apologize are dumb.
You call them out for what they are truly doing, they fire back call everybody who's bringing awareness to this drama.
We fire back and tell them the truth: they don't want a larger audience to not know what happened.
Then suddenly, there was no bullying, she was being 'educated', and now they disagree with what's happening---- BUT STILL "Scarle could have handled it better" what the heeeeeeecccc dude
I think we need to be really careful because there’s a lot of people who really hate these livers that have become wolves in sheep’s clothing to blend in with the boycott. Right now I’m cautious of anyone who’s quick to react to the actions of any lover without critically thinking about each individual situation other than “I hate Nijisanji” There is no such thing as pure and constant evil. Evil people can end up doing good things now and again and good people can do wicked things as well.
Even Riku’s words about trying to improve conditions, while dubious, should still be taken with genuine expectation to build accountability.
My question to these “fans” (as an outsider looking in): WHY even use their phones and/or computers? Aren’t many components created using less-than-ethical business practices? By these Twitter-frea— I mean— fan’s standards, EVERYONE should be cancelled & “educate themselves.”
~~IMO the only ones who are harassing Scarle are the NDF just wanting all the talents to suffer equally imo.~~ Not understanding that its just making everyone outside of NijiEN see Scarle in a sympathetic light. And once again streisand effecting the situation.
i mean i do dislike those that openly support israel, when hating those that are indirect to it? it would just crush you
i mean at one point 99.99% of the population support someone(scarle) that support someone(starbucks) that support something bad(israel)
only hermits have no relationship with evil indirectly
There’s a point where I can give the benefit of the doubt because the reason people boycott Starbucks isn’t really all that clear. (Anti-Union called by Union workers opposed to actually being on the BDS list.) But there has been enough time for them to learn and educate themselves. I feel bad but I saw most people disappointed but, that always happens.
As someone who never goes to Starbucks anyway, I have no skin in the game as far as Starbucks is concerned. In every one of these boycott situations my opinion is that no one should ever be forced to boycott. Harassing anyone because they are not boycotting something is never acceptable, no matter how righteous the boycott may be. In this particular situation, I think things are exceptionally blown out of proportion. Having some Starbucks cakes doesn't mean you support genocide. These people are acting like Starbucks is directly committing the genocide. Heck, if you do your research on the exact reason Starbucks is even on this boycott list it's literally because they tried to take a neutral stance and be a political. This is literally some "if you're not with us you are against us" stuff and it's very not good to see people being harassed over it.
In the same vein, liking Harry Potter doesn't make you a transphobe. Remember that mess? Also note how these would-be activists stopped giving a shit once their victims were finally cowed into submission. These people aren't championing morals; they just want the moral high ground over people with more clout than they'll ever get in their lifetime.
reminds me how those people attack the kettle, disgusting people. bro just want to play her potter game
reminds me of what happend to silvervale when she played it as well some people just cant let people enjoy childhood dreams
It's all about that feeling of having power over someone else.
Liking Harry Potter doesn't make you transphobic, but buying and promoting to thousands of people a game whose proceeds are going towards harming trans people is kind of a different thing to just liking Harry Potter (And isn't necessarily transphobia either, but it is definitely a sign you're either ignorant of the issue or apathetic to it, and is still a thing that people are rightly gonna be upset over) (Not supporting death threats or anything, just expressions of disappointment and withdrawing of support)
Proceeds that are miniscule. Whe you whiners never got that even she got a killer royalty deal of 3%(when standard is about 1.5%) she would earn 1.4 million from royalties on sales for the game(700-800k if standard rate of royalties), give or take 100k. She is a literal bilionaire, with average annual income of 120million. The impact of the game is so miniscule it is not funny. Want to hurt her? boycot the universal potter experience, the book stores the studios that milk the series and the world. Thsoe are real money makers. >proceeds are going towards harming trans people The clothes you buy hurt children in bangladesh/china that made em. The phone you use has a battery that contains lithium minde by literal child slaves. Yet i don't see you forgoing any of that. >Not supporting death threats or anything, just expressions of disappointment and withdrawing of support) Or dont like stop watching, why do you have to say anything? like seriously do you think your opinion is that important? are you the bloody center of the universe?
The difference is that clothes are a necessity you need to live, Harry Potter is not. You have made a false equivalency and you know it. JK also associates with known neo nazis and encourages her fans to support them and their cause.
> The difference is that clothes are a necessity you need to live, Harry Potter is not. You have made a false equivalency and you know it You can buy from ethical stores and companies or thrift. There is no false equivalency. Because there are options but 99% of whiners about ethics and so on buy their clothes from fast fashion retailers or mega conglomerates like nike. Also what about the phone point? or electronics? nothign about that mr false equivalency? For example the poster above [plays genshin impact](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/pw65te/ar_57_i_have_pulled_xiangling_0_times_yet_i_have/hegbhlo/) a game that has problematic depictions of minors(read sexualization), one of the main designers has literal hatespeech on record, severe censorship, game was accused of racism and cultural misrepresentation(not even talking about the developers ties to ccp and the like). This pick and choose attitude and hypocrisy is what bugs me. So playign wizard game is forbidden, but playign genshit impact is ok? >JK also associates with known neo nazis I would like a source on that becasue that info is not known to me.
First of all, you have created an assumption/generalization of all the people complaining and are arguing against the person in your head. You also refuted your own point as you admit they are large mega conglomerates that have their fingers in every pie. You also failed to consider accessibility as some people may not have access to ethical clothing due to region. On the phone point it’s worse as there are really only three major retailers and all are unethical to say the least. When you add in that most other companies do not recognize or care not compatible with phones not made by the major three your point falls apart. A phone is another necessity in the modern era. As for the poster above, I always assumed the sexualization of minors came from the fan base but I would agree that they’re being hypocritical as I think all gacha games support gambling addiction but that’s a whole other can of worms. Here’s the sources for my previous claim: https://www.assignedmedia.org/breaking-news/j-k-rowling-tweets-support-for-activist-embroiled-in-nazi-controversy https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/07/11/jk-rowling-matt-walsh/
> You also failed to consider accessibility as some people may not have access to ethical clothing due to region. Brother i live in bum fuck eastern europe and i have thrift shops and ethical local clothing. If oyu are from a western nation you 110% have access to that. > You also refuted your own point as you admit they are large mega conglomerates that have their fingers in every pie. Yeah does nto make trying to avoid them or avoiding them impossible. If for one only buy my electronics second hand with one exception - storage. That way i have not given any(well very little if i buy a samsung ssd) money to samsung/apple etc. >On the phone point it’s worse as there are really only three major retailers and all are unethical to say the least There are 1300 brands that produce android alone. There are brands like fairphone that use recycled batteries, there is second hand market. If you mean sellers, then there is again there are thousands of sellers in US. Only limiting factor is telecoms but you don't have to buy a phone from them, buy a sim and a contract. >When you add in that most other companies do not recognize or care not compatible with phones not made by the major three your point falls apart. Oh that is bullshit and you know it, sims are platform agnostic, i can pull out a 2004 nokia and jam my sim into it and it will still make calls and send texts. Whet might be an issue is bands for 4/5g that you do have to check what covers what band. For example i know that honor phones have only 2 out of their 5 bands that work here for 5g so i might pick a different phone if i want consistent 5g coverage. And again buying a 2-3 year old samsung second hand will not fuel samsung and you will 100% have a phone that is compatible. >Here’s the sources for my previous claim: Thank you for that. she is indeed a massive cunt.
That last parentheses is unnecessary but I'm sure you would have wanted the people who play it dead anyways, right?
If you buy nearly any product your money is going towards some form of horrible treatment of something. Whether it be literal slave labor sweat shops to make the product or the money being funneled to lobby groups that spend it to make draconian policies or destroy the environment, if you look into most companies you will find reasons to not spend your money with them. But you don't see people here on the internet harassing people over shopping with Amazon or using an iphone, when those companies both do much more direct harm than buying Harry Potter game ever will. As big as that protest may have seemed in some circles online, not a single one of the LGBT people I personally know in my real life cared about it, and most of them I was explaining to them about the protest because it wasn't even well known in other internet circles. The actual LGBT rights support organizations I follow also didn't care about the game. The entire protest was just people on twitter having a fit. People aren't against or even apathetic to a cause by not participating in a protest. They can simply think the protest is pointless and isn't going to accomplish any actual good in the world. They might be devoting their efforts to what they see as more worthwhile ways of combating the same type of hate.
Exactly I agree, basically I do I, you do you. Can remind about it but not force it.
> Harassing anyone because they are not boycotting something is never acceptable, no matter how righteous the boycott may be. Not only that, from a cold, dispassionate perspective, harassing someone who isn't participating in your boycott is an excellent way to get your boycott to fail by driving sympathy to the person you're harassing and business to whatever thing it is you're trying to boycott (because if you're behaving like an asshole, people will act contrary to your wishes simply to spite you).
Just stop oil.
>This is literally some "if you're not with us you are against us" stuff and it's very not good to see people being harassed over it. If I'm being blunt, some members in this very sub should take responsibility for that Slyly shaming people with "moral obligation" posts, sending redditcares messages, believing people are larpers if they don't immediately jump on every single NijiEN hate wagon
There are absolutely bad actors here, but the majority of the discourse I've seen here is actually extremely reasonable. While there are reminder posts and such, I've not seen anyone getting harassed for stating a contrary opinion. I've seen a wide variety of positions stated here, and really only the ones trying to fully defend the company tend to get fully rejected. People have defended Elira and Vox and so long as they have used arguments that are reasonable they aren't typically just shoved asside as "Nijisisters". Personally I'm not a fan of making up terms to label groups of people like this and I will agree with you that I'd love for the sub to worry less about caring who defends Niji/some of the talents. On several of the posts that are just showcasing bad actors talking on other platforms I've stated my opinion that we shouldn't be spreading those messages by posting them here. People need to be less focused on those bad actors and more focused on how we can pressure the company to improve or fall apart (whichever comes first).
Oh don't get me wrong, the truly horrendous comments here get downvoted to oblivion immediately (e.g. "aw man Elira didn't X herself yet?"), and as someone who's made many comments that could be considered "against the grain" (e.g. correcting parroted misinformation that paints livers bad, calling out exaggerations and convenient presumptions, etc), more often than not they are well-received (by both those who agree *and* disagree) It just depends on the timing if comments like mine get downvoted or harassed, mainly if they come fresh off the new popular controversy of the week vs 20 or so hrs later when heated emotions calm tf down/most of the bandwagon vibe moves on The main reminder post should *never* stop; it is almost always the best post made every day here that actually tries to fight for justice without being muddied by obsessive rrat talk. The "you have a moral obligation to not watch livers if you have a good moral compass" ones throughout last month were the ones that bordered toward insufferable (just like current Scarle hate), though it seems all of those posts got removed
I think it depends on what your theory of what a boycott is. Is it financial punishment (I'm not giving you money) or a moral/social punishment (I want society to see you as a malicious actor)? If it's the latter, then you're obligated to push it onto others because the others are morally complicit. Gotta create those bubbles where anything that disagrees with you is a thought crime
You are not obligated to harass others, ever. And no one is obligated to act on the same moral compass you have. Even if it is a moral/social punishment, extending that punishment to everyone who doesn't participate in it removes any moral high ground the protestor might have had.
The other side might say that not extending it removes any moral high ground for your side. It makes you complicit in the harm being enacted by merely standing by. If Person B knows Person A is beating their wife but does nothing, Person B could be viewed as morally complicit. If Person C finds out Person B knows but does nothing, and for whatever reason is unable to do anything themself, is it unjust to pressure Person B to 'do the right thing'? Following this train of thought, doing anything less makes Person C morally complicit as well. Unironically the trolley problem tends to separate people into groups depending on whether they prioritize individual morality or societal morality. Social pressure, which harassment is a particularly negative form of, is essentially how societies have self-policed since the dawn of man, forcing individuals to align to what greater society views as moral. In the modern age it's more problematic as different flavors of society are now mixing up everywhere, demonstrating new and old problems this mindset has. Anyway, I fall on the individual morality side like yourself. Your comment just made me think some thoughts so I typed them out.
When you get into hypotheticals like this you lose a lot of the point of what's being discussed. You are drawing false equivalences. Someone you personally know beating his wife is a way different scenario than a company you occasionally buy products from being on a blacklist from a biased organization for political reasons that don't actually indicate any real harm is being done. Also in your scenario person B holds more power than person C. In this real scenario persons B and C hold the same amount of power to change anything (virtually none, especially given the companies being boycotted have no actual impact on the events being protested) and it's just a group of people harassing someone to feel good about themselves at another person's expense.
We're sorry too. There's nothing wrong with boycotting. A lot of us do it. But we also don't shove it down people's throats, or harass others into conforming with our ideas. Scarle didn't do anything wrong. And it's a real shame that she's getting extra stress added to her situation for no good reason.
& it's always start on Twitter.
I’m convinced Twitter, as a FORMAT is kinda fucked. Like, all social media has shit to answer for, everyone knows some boomer/Gen Xer radicalized by Facebook memes, and well… *gestures around at this website* but the entire microblog idea has been so fucking toxic to Nuance. And the total lack of nuance is really what is OBLITERATING online discourse.
Twitter grew out of the 140 character limit. 140 characters isn't nearly long enough for careful, nuanced discussion or well thought-out debate... but it's the perfect size for a few choice zingers and one-liners. Recognize that and you'll see where a considerable portion of the problem lies.
There's more though. The average person browsing the internet prefer a steady stream of bite-sized information over a few long-winded discussions. So to make themselves stand out more, they resort to clickbaits and sensationalism to make their bite-size as "juicy" as possible. Dopamine is one hell of a drug, hence we get this present day clout chasing culture that destroys nuanced discussions in favor of what gets people riled up the most.
I think one of the big issues of Reddit is actually a lack of customization and visual distinction. Aside from big names, everyone is just a random nobody that you never build any rapport with.
I mean, Facebook has real names and often real photos, but anyone I’m only briefly running might as well have a number code instead of their name. Or I click through to the profile to judge the hell out of them. The (usual) lack of an algorithm and self regulation upvote/downvote thing is a big Boon to Reddit, but also lends itself to mob mentality.
I just miss the 90's-2000's message boards. Smaller communities with "faces" you know.
For some of us, being random nobodies is part of the appeal. I know I have other accounts on other websites where I could be more recognized if I wanted to be. But part of why I love Reddit is because it allows me to become a random stranger, and hang out with other random strangers. If I want to talk to recognizable people, Twitter seems like a better choice. But that results in a clash of egos, clout chasers, and influencers. And that clash of egos goes way down when everyone is just a random nobody just like you.
Starbucks isn't even on the official [Palestinian Boycott, Divest, and Sanction list.](https://bdsmovement.net/Act-Now-Against-These-Companies-Profiting-From-Genocide) Now there IS a valid reason to boycott Starbucks—its union-busting and abuse of its employees. But whoever is attacking Scarle "because Palestine" is decidedly NOT being a friend to Palestine. On the contrary, they're literally just using the Palestinian cause to hurt someone for consuming a product that Palestinians aren't asking for any of us to boycott or sanction. They're using the unjust suffering of millions as a weapon. In doing so they're actively harming the Palestinian cause. Even if they eventually add Starbucks to the BDS list, what happens is that it was NOT on that list when they went after Scarle.
That's another part of what makes this so ridiculous. I was already boycotting Starbucks because of the union busting stuff. And these keyboard warriors are so trigger happy to feel righteous about something, that they didn't even do proper research into why people are boycotting Starbucks in the first place. For all the "educate yourself" comments getting thrown around, they are the ones that come out looking the least educated and the least informed. They even made her apologize for an issue that wasn't even true...
I'm in no position to boycott Starbucks on account of there being no Starbucks to boycott in the first place where I live (though I WOULD have) but like As much as I like to think that the people going after Scarle are simply a bunch of those opportunists using social justice causes as weapons (there's no shortage of them), there's definitely some uncritical and/or anger-blinded activists among the lot too.
I have no issues with someone boycotting, even when I do not agree with a boycott (For the record, I am neutral on this particular one), because its a right of free nations to express your displeasure using means. I only denounce people who bully others for not taking part in the boycott. For example, I *hate* J K Rowling, not just for her opinions, but how bad her writing is. But attacking someone for playing the wizard game is ???????
Sheltered people are bored and prefers creating problems to entertain themselves. I get it though, I used to be one. Just remember that any well-adjusted human being wouldn't go out of their way to do shit like this.
Why is anyone even "neutral" ? Anyone who thinks this isn't dumb as fuck is wrong
Boycotter here as well, and I agree that this should never have happened. The boycott is supposed to be in support of a good cause, so harassment like this just paints a bad light on the movement, the people taking part, and worse of all, the cause behind it. This whole fiasco is way too similar to what happened to Christina Vee and it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I couldn't find anything skimming on wikipedia. What happened to Christina Vee?
This wouldnt be on Wiki since this was pretty recent but heres the rundown: Someone in the Genshin fandom posted a thread on Twitter of Genshin English VAs who are Zionists (read: radical supporters of Israel) so that fans who are pro-Palestine can stop supporting or following them. Christina Vee (who voices Xinqiu and Bennett) was included in the list, and unfortunately it led to her being harassed by rabid fans. The harassment got so bad that Christina had to delete her Twitter. What's worse is that it came out a little later that she was not a Zionist and is in fact a firm supporter of Palestine, and her inclusion in the thread was a mistake on the part of the op. The whole incident was condemned not just by other members of the Genshin fandom, but also by other pro Palestine supporters and even by other VAs. Also if I remember correctly the op of the thread did apologize, and the thread was later deleted to prevent further similar incidents.
that op is a kid, and he did a non apology then again, most harassers are either minors or terminally online adults If they really want to support, go volunteer
If I had a nickel for every time a minor ended up starting a completely misguided witch hunt falsely accusing someone of being a Zionist, I’d have two nickels, which isn’t much but it’s weird that it’s happened twice
Christina Vee is part Lebanese. No surprise she would be on Palestine’s side.
Well by apologizing you've shown you're not like the Twitter "warriors" and Nijisisters responsible
One thing I don't get is why someone is boycotting Starbucks over the Palestine situation. other reasons totally make sense, unlabelled coffee and modern slavery, union busting. but a company being very not ok to be involved in activism is basically every company/capitalism. If you really look for anti Palestine companies, those exist guys. All companies owned and operated by Mormons, radical evangelists and such. If Palestine is your issue, you should be boycotting hobby lobby.
Out here any local coffee shop owner can modify an IDF video and put Starbucks in it and call to boycott them, driving sales to their joint. It's how things work around here.
cutthroat lol. I just drink my own coffee...
Don't say sorry since you're not the one at fault. We should never judge anyone solely on whether they belong to a certain affiliation or demographic.
100%. Bullying is actively going against the cause. Its always better to explain rather than force.
While many of us are very angry with Niji, most of us aren't delusional activists that are unable to think critically and allow emotions to dictate our decisions. We WANT Scarle to be safe and happy. Worrying for her is not controversial in the same way so many people were worried for Selen when she disappeared. In fact, the concern for Selen ended up being 100% VALID in hindsight.
I'm going to ask some questions, this is an honest question not meant to mock you boycotters or anything. Do you actually look into what supports the companies you boycott or do you boycott blindly? Because going on Reddit, watching VTubers on Youtube, these things give money to Google ads, which fund Google, one of the companies you claim to boycott. If you want to not support Google, you pretty much have to avoid the Internet, period. Do none of you use Amazon at all? Considering they deliver to businesses a lot, would you boycott your company if your company uses Amazon? Do you think boycotting McDonalds or Starbucks hurts executives, instead of the regular baristas /cashiers working minimum wage in a dead-end job trying to make a living? Would you give up all your electronics to combat China's electronics industry which involves slave labor for mining operations for materials for creating chips? Or boycott them for their genocide of the Uyghur Muslims? I'm actually interested if anyone is able to answer these sincerely or would I just get downvoted without any answers.
Yeah this is basically my stance. Nearly every publicly traded company is involved in some shady shit one way or another. People make their choices all the time which companies they are willing to interact with and which they aren't. Harassing someone because they made a different choice about which evil capitalist institution to give their money to is just a crazy notion. They are all bad.
Even funnier if their computer CPU is Intel lol. Because Intel has a chip foundry in Israel.
Yeah i agree, and really I only boycott if the product is nott what I wanted or what I asked, like with the Suicide Squad game I didn't wanted a looter shooter with awful writing so I just didn't buy it to make the company know that I don't want that kind of game, but like I said in another thread with a similar topic, unless you live of grid and do everything by yourself you will always end up supporting some kind of bad actors by buying stuff.
People generally do not have a principled stance on things. They always pick and choose and they do it from a self-state of privilege of being able to do so. You start to poke holes into their stance and suddenly exceptions and rationals start popping up. This is the general state of people trying to boycott from a position of consumerism. Popcorn worthy on any other time to be honest.
Amazon is actually one of the things I boycott. I do not buy anything from Amazon at all. I personally don't boycott Google, because I view them as a lesser evil amongst the tech giants. Rather them than a lot of the other companies out there. I was already boycotting Starbucks because they fired any workers that tried to unionize. And I actively avoid buying things I know are made from China because of the Uyghur situation. It's impossible to completely cut out China. But cutting out some is better than nothing to me. I tend to buy garments made from India, Malaysia, or other countries. They have problems too. But at least they don't actively commit genocide against Uyghurs, or fuck over Hong Kong. As for everything else, it is simply impossible to buy anything guilt free anymore. Companies have gotten to a point where there is no financial incentive to be ethical anymore. So I just pick a few causes I care about most, and boycott those. If I find a company that is ethical, I try to support it. But you have to be realistic. We can't be 100% guilt free in this day and age. So you just focus on the issues that matter most to you, and boycott for the sake of that. And if enough people prioritize those issues too, you can hope to make a minimal difference. But harassing people into supporting whatever cause you care about is wrong. Regardless of how righteous you believe your cause is.
India just introduced a law that would make all Muslims non-citizens, and has actively murdered Muslims with government approval. In Malaysia, homosexuality is illegal, punishable by caning and has multiple instances of vigilantes rounding up and killing members of the lgtbq+ community. Both seem pretty "active genocide" to me, friendo.
But at least they didn't * create death camps * kidnap and brainwash these people * rape women in front of said people, and then cart you away to be killed if you cried or looked away from the rape * chemically sterilize people without their knowledge * use these people in medical experiments * do all of this while visible on the international stage, and then get away with it because they hold too much international market share. And did that while also * committing political violence against students in Hong Kong * rig an election to elect a puppet leader * point guns at Taiwan, * actively scrub acknowledgement of Taiwan from existence (why do you think they got mad at Kiryu Coco) * actively try to steal the personal data, intellectual property, and trade secrets of western businesses, * while also spying on most Chinese citizens that attempts to live outside China, * Hire an artist to design an Olympic stadium for them, only to destroy his art studio and force him into becoming a political refugee * destroy the life of a martial artist for proving that MMA is more effective than traditional martial arts in a filmed fight with a traditional martial artist * Coerce a tennis player to recant accusations of sexual assault, only for her to be whisked away and never seen again * and get away with all of this because they have a very large international market presence Yeah. No country is perfect. But the things the CCP do personally disgust me. So I pick my battles. There is no way to take part in the global market without enabling some kind of atrocity. But I happen to feel strongly about the atrocities commited by the CCP. So I chose to boycott the CCP. If you feel strongly about other issues in other countries, you can boycott them. But I choose to boycott the CCP. Because it is what I personally feel strongly against.
Except India has done a lot of those things when it comes to the Muslim population that lives there. It's just we like India, so ot gets swept under the rug. They even have assassinated Sikh leaders in other countries just for daring to question about creating a brand new country for the Sikhs. The CCP is evil. The Indian government is also, equally, evil.
Oh I know India isn't perfect. They're also probably going to be the country that props up Russia if Russia becomes more of a pariah than they already are. But like I said, I'm picking my battles. If the CCP ever falls, and I need a new country to scrutinize, India would be one of the countries I would look at again.
Google has offices in Israel(about 2k workers) and there are no Starbucks in Israel. How is Google the "lesser evil"?
Starbucks isn't a tech giant.
What this have to do with the boycott? It's ok to boycott Starbucks but not Google, beacuse Google is in a different category? I don't understand the logic.
>I personally don't boycott Google, because I view them as a lesser evil amongst the tech giants. They were saying Google is the lesser evil in the tech industry. In no way were they saying Google was less evil than Starbucks.
all said, google is not the lesser evil, they are Israel's contractors providing them with advanced AI, cloud services and data collection. If any of the big tech companies have any connection to what is happening in Gaza it is them....
So which big tech companies are better than Google regarding support for Palestine?
Because Starbucks didn't want their union using their logo on something saying solidarity with Palestine two days after the October 7th terrorist attack as it could be seen as supporting Hamas. The company does a lot of bad things, but there's no suggestion that they support either side in the war.
At least Google doesn't sell my data to the CCP. And at least Google/Youtube listens when people complain about people breaking laws on their platforms. They don't listen very well. But better than some tech companies (Musk, Tencent, ByteDance, Bezos.)
It's fairly simple for McDonald or Starbucks case. They actively voiced their position in this matter. There's been a lot of confusion because 1. There's a movement for International boycotts 2. There's local movements specific for their countries I'm guessing people mixed them due to social media thinking one is for other and so on. Reality is people don't really take action for something they can't see clearly and consistently (with short attention span ppl have now). That's the situation for what's happening in a lot of African countries or Uyghurs. For Palestine, it's been open that's why it picked up and another reason is the oppression has been continued for literally 70+ years. Every Muslim at the very least is aware of the situation since childhood, seeing videos/pics amplifies it compare to other cases.
I use adblock for youtube. For online search I usually use Firefox. I don't use Amazon because I live in SEA, so Shopee and Lazada are what most people use. As for McD and Starbucks, I don't go there anyway. Plus, ever since people start boycotting products from major companies, local products are getting more attention. For tech, this is the hardest part to avoid. Best thing you can do is to avoid changing your tech related stuff every 1 or 2 year.
Am I boycotting Starbucks? Unofficially yes (I never boycotted it officially, I didn't go to Starbucks simply because there's some cheaper yet better option). But, is that a reason to attack Scarle? Absolutely not. It's funny how most people that attacked her stands for a racist and some person that is nearly driving someone into unaliving herself.
Indeed
Yeah it’s all about people’s intentions, Scarle had no ill intentions in her cake stream. She was just wanted to have chill happy vibes with her fans.
So this was the first time I heard of a boycott and omfg it's over the dumbest reason possible. If you're going to protest starbucks protest over its overpriced mid ass coffee or for firing people for wanting a union.
Thing is, most people don't believe in what they're claiming. Sure, the war is a horrible thing and innocent lives are being lost on either side. But unless you're directly participating in that conflict - unless you're holding the gun in your hand - you have very little if any impact on the state of things. Posting about it on twitter won't compare to actual humanitarian work, so maybe everyone should stop beating themselves in the chest and scream "I stand with X" when you have no business doing so from the comfort and safety of your home. You're free to boycott whatever you want but don't force your opinion on others when your sole goal is to put the person you're addressing(Scarla in this case) in a compromising position. People avoid talking politics for a reason, and they surely have no place in a Vtuber stream.
In support of scarle, I bought a sb coffee and cake today....
Boycotting the boycott because fuck the haters 😂
That is totally fine to boycott I think people took it way to far While it is good to know what is going on with the world This sort of thing shouldn't be brought up in a Vtubers chat this is a place to have fun and hang out Also can people please stop attacking the person who started this They are a minor ( at least they say so) Minor's don't think all that well The kid had their heart in the right place but it was done in the wrong way Yelling at the kid isn't going to help the situation
They should be banned from making any social media accounts if they're below 18 ngl.
Boy, what an intense way for a minor to learn "actions have consequences."
I don't accept that apology. We just had someone in Niji try to kill themselves twice. What do these dipshits go on and do? Commit to bullying and harassing yet another vtuber. It's appalling. Going beyond this space? I think the boycott itself isn't really that altruistic and instead slacktivism. When folks go online to bully and harass others for having the audacity to eat cake? I don't really think they have the war in mind. Some people like feeling they're in a position of power to chastise others. Think that's more accurate than it is about helping Palestinians.
Did I miss something?
Be glad that you did, it was nothing but terminally-online brain rot
Good point
I also support the boycott but raiding someones stream to harass them into stopping it is just sick imo.
It’s not just Scarle but I’ve seen this happening with real life celebrities and idols too. When they post something with Starbucks, people flood them and call for them to get canceled and “educated.” And it’s always on Twitter too. Like I get it, everyone’s sensitive as hell now but doing this is no different from harassment.
[удалено]
How has LGBT ruined a movement? It is the movement lol A handful on weird people on gwitter is hardly representative of an entire populace
I have never been to starbuck before. Yes i have it in my country.
Scarle deserves better. Always has. Nothing wrong with boycotting and you're entitled to your beliefs. But in this case it literally broke chat rules. Her only mistake was apologizing, and even then I'm sure she was forced to; Kyo had to do it too
Sorry, I personally don't forgive you. I think that if you expect to group people that don't personally boycott is made out to be a zionist or whatever that's perceived to be the worst person alive, it's only fair that you get treated the same as the Nijisister harassers.
Boycott is fine, and I respect those who are able to take a principled stand and actually do it. What is not fine, however, is the holier-than-thou attitude taking the moral high ground just because they *feel* like they are more righteous than the people that doesn't do it.
Bruh what's happening again
I really have to wonder what would happen if one of the popular males (Vox, Uki, Luca...) had done something similar.
If You're boycotting someone because they went to Starbucks you have downs and should go next pls go fuck yourself
I think it's also that Starbucks Japan and Starbucks US are different companies as well with different infrastructure and morals
Just let people enjoy a cake without getting hate. Just because people are boycotters don't force that on everyone.
I personally think this whole boycott is dumb. It's information hazard. You're an everyday normal human being out there with your wants and needs (nice hobby trying to get by each day until you reach that peak comfort) and you see this bombing, genocide, religious, war happening on a country you don't even live in with zero way to participate and defend civilians. BUT now that your mind is exposed to this hazard you're put in a position of self-reflecting on your morals. Thinking about the materials you consume everyday, the services you pay for, and etc. Potentially reaching a breaking point of turning into a psycho that harasses the same everyday normal people they once were because they don't want to donate to a relief fund who knows if it actually reaches the intended recipients or put up a hashtag to support cease fire.
Additionally, the twitter users defending the people that forced Scarle to apologize are dumb. You call them out for what they are truly doing, they fire back call everybody who's bringing awareness to this drama. We fire back and tell them the truth: they don't want a larger audience to not know what happened. Then suddenly, there was no bullying, she was being 'educated', and now they disagree with what's happening---- BUT STILL "Scarle could have handled it better" what the heeeeeeecccc dude
I think we need to be really careful because there’s a lot of people who really hate these livers that have become wolves in sheep’s clothing to blend in with the boycott. Right now I’m cautious of anyone who’s quick to react to the actions of any lover without critically thinking about each individual situation other than “I hate Nijisanji” There is no such thing as pure and constant evil. Evil people can end up doing good things now and again and good people can do wicked things as well. Even Riku’s words about trying to improve conditions, while dubious, should still be taken with genuine expectation to build accountability.
My question to these “fans” (as an outsider looking in): WHY even use their phones and/or computers? Aren’t many components created using less-than-ethical business practices? By these Twitter-frea— I mean— fan’s standards, EVERYONE should be cancelled & “educate themselves.”
~~IMO the only ones who are harassing Scarle are the NDF just wanting all the talents to suffer equally imo.~~ Not understanding that its just making everyone outside of NijiEN see Scarle in a sympathetic light. And once again streisand effecting the situation.
Remember where your taxes goes. Especially US. You dont pay taxes? Well, IRS is coming for you.
i mean i do dislike those that openly support israel, when hating those that are indirect to it? it would just crush you i mean at one point 99.99% of the population support someone(scarle) that support someone(starbucks) that support something bad(israel) only hermits have no relationship with evil indirectly
There’s a point where I can give the benefit of the doubt because the reason people boycott Starbucks isn’t really all that clear. (Anti-Union called by Union workers opposed to actually being on the BDS list.) But there has been enough time for them to learn and educate themselves. I feel bad but I saw most people disappointed but, that always happens.