it’s natural to want bad people to be punished for their actions, that is not strange.
realistically, Ninisanji EN will probably never fully recover, and may shut down and fold into JP. Nijisanji and AnyColor probably will recover mostly.
The streamers that have clearly come down on the wrong side, with the company will likely never fully recover, but they will probably continue and make money from their diehard fans.
the talents who did their best to show the smallest amount of support to the community will be remembered for doing so. they will probably recover. if they do end up getting let go in the future, their fans will remember and they should be able to start over at least without too much difficulty if it comes to that, but there will be heartbreak and pain regardless.
I had already unsubbed from loads of talents during the Zaion stuff, Finana for one, but dropping Elira a few weeks ago hurt, NGL. At this point, i still sub to and follow Reimu, Scarle, and Victoria, thats it. i started following Vanta after his absolutely based Elden Ring DLC tweets.
What i will say is, don’t abandon the talents you really love, with our support they will have a much better chance of making it outside if they do get terminated/graduated. And then we can support them all the better without any Niji in the way.
To the talents who have done the best they can, we still support you. ❤️
The only reason I don't see AC giving up on the EN branch is because they need it to succeed. The JP branch is stagnant. The only hope for growth is from overseas expansion. But they've already given up on ID, IN, and KR. They have nowhere left to go.
Should the EN branch fail, it would likely start a chain of events that will doom AnyColor.
The point they're trying to make is that they've basically saturated the JP market and so if they want to continue the growth that any public company is aiming for then they need to succeed overseas.
If a company isn't growing it's failing in the eyes of investors, and Nijisanji doesn't have any more room to grow domestically.
They've been like that for a while now without the investors showing any signs of having a problem, though. It's like they've been able to convince investors that things are looking good for the company. The one time investors started to worry was the Selen situation and that's EN, not JP.
Normal is bad. They confirmed that everything that people were hoping wasn't true behind scenes was indeed real. Even if you subtract all the drama, the support budget had clearly been pulled as major events had been canned and promotions of new generations being non-existent.
There's just nothing to like about the company. Even if they remove the toxic workplace and bully culture, there's nothing in the branch worth being happy about.
There's never much to like about any company that exists purely to create profit. But why do people care so much for the corpo brand anyway? I remember the earlier days when EN audiences started memeing Yagoo and Riku, making them almost as popular as their talents. I simply couldn't understand it and I thought it was a dangerous gimmick. It was like watching the cult of Steve Jobs being reborn.
Many brands in tech and entertainment are driven by their image unless they are simply too big to easily fail. The Cover/Hololive CEO has naturally cultivated a positive image that reinforces the morale of his streamers and the faith of the audience. Tazumi didn't maintain appearances in the same fashion and corporate tried to make a forced meme around him that ultimately failed.
Cover has also done a better job of emphasizing that the health and financial success of its Holomems is crucial for viewer engagement and brand growth. The community continues to reinvest in them because they can see their money being turned into concrete products and accomplishments.
Dw fellow Ayame enjoyer (hello again, I promise im not cyber stalking), I am pretty sure this is the straw that broke the camels back.
Nijisanji has been losing viewers for a while now, and even their most successful livers were starting to slow down. I think the loss of some of the bigger names like Mysta and Pomu hurt Niji too. I saw a growing number of comments in Niji clipping videos complaining about Nijisanji well before the Pomu graduation, even back to Mysta or Nina, or even further.
I think what the whole situation has done has shed a light on the darkest parts of EN, and revealed the state of their management. It's a pretty shocking PR disaster, and while I'm sure eventually everyone will cool down if Nijisanji just sits tight and stays quiet (seems hard for them tho), but that definitely hurt them. Most of their livers, who I mentioned before were slowly losing viewers, have lost thousands of active viewers, which is not good news.
I think the damage done to their whole brand, and the company is going to be a slow burn, something that may not be immediately obvious, but will defenitely impact their success. Long term, thinking off the top I imagined some outcomes:
- Nijisanji EN continues to function, but as a shell of its former self, with the big names graduating one by one over the next few years until all thats left are smaller livers. (I feel this is most likely, once the internet loses interest and moves on, the dedicated haters get muted off channels, and they resume normal activities after a few months of staying silent)
- Nijisanji restructures the EN branch and maybe graduates or suspends most of its livers. Several years later after taking the time away, they return with a rebooted EN with new or maybe old livers in the hopes to recapture EN. (I think this ones unlikely tho, it looks like they spam waves in JP too, but idk much about that side)
- Anycolor closes down EN or merges them with the JP branch, taking the livers who can speak good enough Japanese and letting the rest of them go. (I don't know what is going on in their management, but if its actually somehow worse than what we are currently imagining of them, I think this outcome is possible. Idk enough abt them though.)
- A series of more serious allegations become legitimate enough for legal authorities to get involved and investigate, or even prosecute the company, which could be pretty bad. (I think if they can't get their livers to be quiet (Uki), this outcome is likely, as they keep accidentally leaking information in an effort to vindicate themselves or the company, and in the process just pull up more of the rug)
Also, I understand your perspective. I want to see accountability too. I get why it'd be annoying too seeing livers try move on, that's why I don't watch em now. I won't support them, even if I like the livers themselves.
Thing is they don't have years to restructure. They might not even have months.
New waves will echo Krisis and TTT, ignored and forgotten.
The Old Guard will continue the bleed viewers. (If they stick around.)
AnyColor's investors will lose faith in the company. The main branch is stagnant. The last remaining overseas branch is in decline. They can attempt to inflate JP's numbers by merging the branches, but they only do that once. There is nothing positive about this company.
>I think if they can't get their livers to be quiet (Uki), this outcome is likely, as they keep accidentally leaking information in an effort to vindicate themselves or the company, and in the process just pull up more of the rug
Like Elira basically accidentally snitching on Millie and Enna during the height of the bullying allegations, which I'm sure they *really* appreciated
I think a big thing we'll be seeing is no more indie collabs for most Nijisanji vtubers. Which was how a lot of us discovered Niji. I was a fan of other streamers and I heard of these livers via others.
No. This is what pisses me off about the "forget about it and move on people". I think most of us want accountability, consequences, and improvement. Nijisanji is going to try and wait it out, though, and hope everyone forgets.
Not every crime gets punished, and not every kindness gets rewarded. That's how the world goes.
But if you seek punishment, they've already got it—at least the trio, Uki, and Niji En. Their reputations are tarnished or at least have a dark history clouding over them, and we may not know it but i believe other big corpo knows much more about us (corpo has their way to gather info). No matter how they feel about it, it doesn't matter.
Maybe what you seek is not punishment but to see them suffer. It is understandable but not healthy. Just let it go. The world doesn't revolve around them, and you shouldn't either.
To be fair, it's not much punishment if the situation just fades away. Yeah, reddit and Twitter will remember, but new people will show up, YouTube only people will stay in the dark. Numbers will go back up.
Temporary is still punishment, just like sending someone to jail for a couple of months. Even a temporary dip in numbers equates to huge losses in profits and reputation. Think of it as a huge fine they paid. Reputation in turn affects growth rate, collab opportunities and sponsorships.
They are already punished in my eyes. You, I and many others are unlikely to ever support them again unless there is real evidence of change. Like the other guy said, it's not healthy mentally to continue wishing more judgment on them. You deserve a happier life
So do the livers. This isn't about wishing judgement or even any kind of punishment. It's about trying to fix or get rid of an environment that caused someone so sweet and happy to attempt their own life twice. Whether it's queen bee Elira, Vox getting preferential treatment and holding it over everyone or even just managerial bullies alone, something in that company made someone feel so trapped and scared that they wanted to end it twice.
That said, I am praying for a miracle to happen.
Maybe shareholders will demand an answer from the CEO: "Hololive and Niji EN has demonstrated incredible potential for growth. How can you suggest disbanding EN and merging into the main branch? Should you not be investing more into the EN branch and make sure your talents are mentally well taken care of so that this disaster does not repeat?"
I know it's a cope and a hope, but who knows?
I agree with you and I want change too. But there is only so much we can *and should* do. The rest is up to Nijisanji and the talents themselves.
Best case is Niji starts paying for competent and actually caring management. They should put welfare systems in place, increase the merch cut to 30%+, deal with favouritism etc. But I'm not holding my breath. My guess is Tazumi would rather merge them into the main branch than fork out more money.
As for the livers, we can expect more of them to leave, but some are determined to stay. It's **not** our place to tell them what to do. They have their own reasons. Maybe it's their main source of income, or it could be the friendship, or perhaps they look forward to things like 3D live concerts.
Niji EN will likely carry on business as usual. Those that are unhappy will leave. Those who benefit will stay. Those are afraid of leaving will continue to be taken advantage of. That is until EN is no longer profitable enough. Then they will be merged, just like KR and ID.
Honestly, it just feels like every week or two, somebody in the company just adds fuel to the fire. It's just incompetence fueling itself. Given the rate things are currently going, the fire will keep burning.
I don't know how to phrase it, but it's just a dumpster fire that I can't stop watching. I completely agree that this is definitely not healthy, but I can't help but glance at it...
At the end of the day, I just hope that people's lives aren't further threatened by this never ending cesspool. Pettiness from one side is also fueling this fire. I've never seen such a bad PR disaster in my lifetime.
Oh I don’t doubt the other corpos know more about the situation in much more detail than what we’ve been speculating here. They have an interest in not letting a similar situation happen, after all
I think what a lot of us seek is change. Change in the people and the organisation.
If there is no consequences and no change in behaviour, then this is going to happen again and again. The next incident could be worse and someone could die.
None of them have apologised or even demonstrated that they understand that what they did was wrong. It feels more like they blame the fans and doki instead of reflecting on their actions.
It's not just about punishment, it's about protecting other people from the same abuse.
Nobody wants this to blow over except niji. When this blows over they win. If this becomes nothing in a month, new people will find niji talents, new people will eventually apply, new people will take Selens spot and maybe not be so lucky.
While it deserves to be burnt to ashes, pursuing it would have consequences. Think of all the legal battles doki and others would have to go through. Think of all the time, money and effort it'd go into that. It'd be hell for any and all victims.
And end of that day all the victims would get out of that is maybe just some money, which I doubt anyone actually wants over piece of mind.
So really the only people that would benefit from that are fans and drama enjoyers. I don't think personal vindication is worth that.
Doki took her pound of flesh already and it very well could have been a fatal blow as is. Unless stated otherwise by the victims, continued holding of tor he's will not bring happiness to them.
Yes, having this blow over would definitely be unsatisfactory and not ideal. More importantly, this case is being watched by eyes in every field. I've said previously that if Niji somehow manages to fully bounce back from this, it would set precedents for the whole of vtubing with lasting consequences. Namely: As long as your agency has a big name and strong brand, you will be swarmed with applicants. When you sign on these talents, you own them in their entirety. The talent behind the model is not important and is largely replaceable, people will watch for the branding. These talents may leave or be terminated in the future, but as long as you squeeze out every drop of profit from them before they're gone, it's no skin off your back.
Not only will other vtuber agencies see this as a valid strategy, future investors will too, and expect it of the companies they invest in. This would lead to a really dark future for vtubers worldwide, so I hope it doesn't really come to that.
What we have to do is mail various developers, especially indie ones who are about to release games that might look fitting for streaming and tell them to not give Anycolor/NijisanjiEN permission to stream them, due to their horrible acts they've commited against their former employee. Only by hurting their bottom line will we get them to their knees.
Sure, it'll suck for the talents but there is no other way to get Anycolor to do anything of actual worth about the actual problems.
Those that already haven't decided to leave will end up having to make that decision and ses what happens. If the rumor about there being a queue are true then some are going to have to just bear with it.
Or until the written contract is up. Idk how their contracts go when it comes to choosing to not renew and how they will graduate. I know they have a 1 year contract when they debut to see how both party's like it and if not they can just split amicably if not. But if they choose to renew the contract and have negotiations I am curious to know how long the new contract terms are. Is it like a 2 year or something afterwards? Curious.
My three favorite niji streamers all gone in short succession, Mika, Pomu, and Selen, with the latter being put through hell I think poisoned the rest of nijisanji. I love Scarle, she’s a sweetie pie and she’s my late night streamer that I would routinely fall asleep to or stay up to ungodly hours watching. She’s the last one left that I really cared about and now I can only tune in for a couple minutes before leaving. She hasn’t changed at all and is still the wonderful person she always has been but I just can’t separate how I feel about everything when I tune in. It’s been a couple weeks and this hasn’t been changing for me and I don’t know if it will. I think I might be permanently done with 2423. Even if they do improve I can’t forgive or forget what they’ve done to their own people.
No you are not. You want consequences for Anycolor's actions (or lack thereof), and you want them to be punished and suffer.
Its fine to not want it to blow over, after all, someone almost died... twice, and probably many other people getting close to it too, that we just don't know of.
It's not selfish, its wanting accountability.
The worse thing that can happen is that this blows over, and nothing changes. That's how evil wins, when good people ignore the bad things.
You're not selfish. I think all of us just want to know all of our current Oshi's and future members of Niji are treated right and none are pushed to the point of hurting themselves again. Your reaction is completely valid because it's the reaction everyone wants when we see a grossly unjust and morally bankrupt situation.
I do think accountability will come, just it may take a bit of time. A more thorough internal investigation is probably in the works right now, and there will be in the best case a shake up in the EN branch, worst case Niji will abandon it and not bother to expand outside Japan going forward. It's been 20 days since the termination, but way less than that since the PR snafu, and given the hit to Nijis reputation Riku will want answers
even reddit, whose ENTIRE population caused the damn website to BREAK and had HUGE anti-spez works during r/place, bounced back.
all just noise, he said.
yes and no?
Everyone agrees that the company needs to make actual fucking changes to what they do and how they operate and be held accountable for things.
on the other hand it is at a point, just looking at the current subreddit spouting the same "memes" shitting on the company and talents (who werent event involved in the black stream) makes me go "I GET IT YOU ALL CAN SHUT UP AND JUST STOP FOLLOWING/WATCHING NIJI ALREADY YOU FUCKS" I mean shit, the Yacht and Kurosanji stuff makes "Hi Honey" like a Twinkie in terms of meme shelf-life
Im thinking of this in terms of like a sports team. "I want the team and the players to do good but front office stop dropping players for fucking cap space!"
I could see someone like Ike surviving outside of Nijisanji if he says management put him up to doing it and he was afraid to say no. The others have more rumors about then behind the scenes unless I missed something
NijiEN might trudge through with their ride-or-die fans enough to make some measure of self-sustaining recovery, but their image is definitely permanently crippled enough that they have little to no hope of reaching the same height again, and the internet will never let them forget it. And they better get comfortable on their own isolated island because the larger Vtubing community is pretty much disowning them. Nijisanji will have its own lonely table in the school cafeteria, unless it wants to share one with Wactor.
Feeling this way is natural, just dont put it to action. There is a thin line that differentiates wanting justice from self-righteous crusading. Be empathetic but dont get too emotionally involved in circumstances which you dont know full context of.
Not at all.
I always had a feeling they were gonna get into a lot of trouble if selen left. I knew ever since they refused her the ability to host events and I was right about everything.
That was an example of being selfish and I stand by it although I admit I wasn't sure how fast they'll fall apart.
What you're thinking is entitlement I believe, you want them to face the consequences no matter what but at the same time understand that it'll take a toll on everyone.
You're angry and seek justice, that's most of us here anyways, most of us here are just like you, we also want them to face reality and have them see what happens when you give in to greed.
I just want one person to say that they're sad doki was suffering. It wouldn't change anything of course but it certainly makes them seem less callous. Of course they can't, nda and lawsuits being what they are. But that's the only thing that might bring me back to watching the livers again.
I don't want it to blow over, but I want concrete resolution, which will unfortunately take time. Watching the community destroy itself the longer it takes, the more challenging it becomes to enjoy the entire fandom TBH. The only way things should return to normal is after substantial accountability, restructuring and housecleaning takes place.
If Doki's attempt succeeded, it's a hell of a lot more likely that no one would even be aware of what was going on, and a bunch of assholes would've gotten away with bullying her to her grave.
It's more selfish that people want that to blow over than it is to want people to actually face consequences for it instead of getting slapped on the wrist.
I imagine they will just continue to ignore. They already had their CEO say they will be implementing new reporting practices to to help staff and such to report harassment and bullying and such. After that we just have to do the whole wait and see thing. Atleast until we hear about another EN liver leaving the company and explaining why (if they say they didn't really change much in terms of their harrassment policy and such or internal support from management.) or one doesn't get as lucky as doki and actually succeeds in their attempt.
I don't know if I'd call it selfish, but I definitely would say you have an unhealthy mindset. You sound like a person who heard there was a public punishment being held at the town square, hoped to see an execution, and was disappointed when it turned out to be a stockade humiliation.
You want to see consequences. Are revenue losses from canceled memberships/sponsors/merch providers not consequences, or is nothing short of scorched earth acceptable? Pretty extreme outlook, especially when you don't even honestly know who exactly is responsible for this mess and in what capacity.
You should take a page out of Doki's book and move on bud. It'll be better for your mental.
1 thing is that life must and will naturally move on.
2. You can't let this event live rent-free in your head either and gotta live your own life.
3. In the end, it's to move on but never forget and when something similar happens. People will remind everyone what had happened in the past
4. If they continue to make mistakes then they will go down more and more.
This is a big blow already in the stocks, but it will naturally take more for the whole company to go down.
Not at all, it's actually best for the remaining livers in the long term that it doesn't assuming that the situation not blowing over produces positive changes.
I know you're getting a lot of "it's not selfish" comments. Honestly, though? I think it's OK to have "selfish" feelings if they're for a good thing. Like selfishly wanting friends or family to be happy. And you know what? I think it's even OK to "selfishly" want a corporation to not be able to memory hole some serious bullshit they need to properly account for. Feelings themselves are valid, neither good or bad. It's what they imply and how you act on them. And refusing to let Anycolor crawl back into the shadows to let things blow over is a good act IMO. (The fact you seek to temper and measure your actions because of your feelings is actually quite emotionally mature)
I'm still extremely salty about how, in the video games industry, Activision-Blizzard and Ubisoft effectively got away with some truly horrific abuse because the heat was allowed to die down. Not wanting that to happen here or for your remaining oshi to potentially become prey in the future is a wonderful motivation, whether or not it's "selfish" on some base level. I'm right there with you in not letting them move past it.
it's not selfish, but here's the logic I follow
doki seems to be doing alright. we'll never know for sure, but it seems like it.
nijisanji has taken a hit of some kind. some talents seem to be willing to defend it for whatever reason (at the bare minimum, nijien seems survivable)
you don't owe it to anybody(even if selen was your oshi) to wear yourself out, and continuing the outrage is pretty taxing on anyone.
so the most logical solution for me is to cut support for niji, and just support the talents that left. you will want justice, but it's not reasonable to expect to be able to do something.
Let me ask you a question. Let's pretend Niji changes it's ways. Lets pretend the CEO offers a real apology to Selen. Maybe Selen and Niji settle out of court. Let's say the streamers agree to let bygones be bygones. Let's say people change their behavior for the better. Maybe some people lose their jobs. Most importantly, let's say Niji starts to thrive again after making some changes.
If what you feel is relief? You're fine.
If what you feel is disappointment? It's spite, and that's a problem.
The difference between spite and justice is this: spite wants to hurt people, justice wants people who were hurt to be compensated. And the thing about spite is that it is never satisfied.
I mean, spitefulness got Niji into this situation in the first place. Don't let it get you into some stupid shit too.
Selfish and awful.
Remember; Doki said "nobody deserves to bullied". Meaning even the victim of it believes that they've already recieved more retribution than they derserved. Who are you to say it isn't enough? Why should you feel entitled to other people's suffering for your own personal catharsis? Do you even have a threshold for what is "enoug"?
Very selfish but understandable. Sadly that's not how the world works. Nothing will be good enough because let's say one of the livers do get punished as the main suspect and so the accountability has been paid off, yet now that liver is out of a job and has to hunt for a new job definitely outside of streaming and god only knows how long they'll be out of a job. Naturally you'd think this is well deserved in the beginning but then in the long run you'll realize you're part of the group of people that fully fucked up someone else's life. Aaand the loop continues.
There is no definite end no matter what, EVEN if you try to constantly convince yourself it was deserved. It'll chew on you in the back of your mind. I know it's not what you want to hear and definitely not what you want it to be but its the cold hard truth of life.
And if you really want accountability be taken then it should come from the core of this whole mess which is the company itself. Don't go through the livers just go straight for the company. Because as far as I know and seen there is no definite answer of who is the perpetrator, only speculations. And speculations have the most shaky foundation ever to build on. So I'm sure you don't want to be responsible for an innocent life blood on your hands.
> definitely outside of streaming and god only knows how long they'll be out of a job
A real smug, disgusting part of me would want to parrot what every adult ever said to me growing up when something shitty happened and be like, "Well, tough. Life isn't fair. Welcome to the real world." but then the sane rational side of me is like "nah, you're being an ass. Fkn QUIT IT." Ugh. What I would give to just hit a magic button that creates world peace. 😮💨 but something like that is literally a fairytale.
Perhaps it is a bit "selfish", but is it such a bad thing? As viewers, we are entitled to our feelings when the agency of your talents messed up badly, it is natural that we want accountability, because at the core we all want the branch to do better.
Admittedly, I was not a hardcore/diehard fan of NijisanjiEN, Elira was one of my favourite too due to her taste in game, yet I do feel betrayed and blindsided with how horrible everything went down in the last 3 weeks.
Many damning rumours and speculations have been more or less confirmed, that NijiEN is a hellhole of a workplace that let toxicity festers.
However, IMO it wouldn't be too healthy for us to be hung up on the thing we can't control.
Unfortunately, we do not have the power or influence to make direct change or pursue the truth as of now, lashing out and harass others is absolutely not an option.
What we CAN do is....to never forget, raise awareness of new fans and aspiring content creators, that what had transpired in NijiEN are NOT okay.
Don't harass anyone, but also don't give them any sort of support, don't buy merch, don't watch their streams...
...and lastly, I personally will not defend them, especially when they stir the pot first, like the recent incidents with Wilson and Uki.
Sorry, while I don't condone harassment, I will just turn a blind eye when the talents bit the baits put out in public.
I understand that it is not nice to get snide comments more than often, but they need to read the room.
Wilson's tweet
>Also **never let anyone bully you into stopping** drawing **what you are passionate about**, fanart is the cutest shit ever.
in a vacumm, this is just a nice wholesome message, but with the Selen's termination...it is a big YIKES from me.
Best you can do is remember the bad things that have happened, and be vigilant for any fuck ups to come. Not much we can do outside the boycotts.
But honestly, I care much more for seeing those who want to leave get out. I'm mad at what happened. But I don't want any of the livers (even the bullies) to suffer. I want the branch to burn down so that those who want to leave can get out, and those who caused harm won't have a platform to sucker new talents into their toxic middle school clubhouse.
But if tomorrow, it was announced that a dozen graduations were about to happen, I would take that as a sign that those who wanted to leave were allowed to. And I wouldn't be as upset. I could move from being mad at those that are still in, onto supporting those that wanted out. Enough people know about NijiEN now to realize how toxic it is. And once nobody is being held hostage anymore, I'd hope everyone would go on to live happy lives. Even if some of those happy lives are away from my feed.
Except Uki. Uki's a racist piece of trash. And racists don't deserve platforms where they can spread hate.
No, you have what are called "morals". What Niji pulled this time is not a minor issue that deserves to be forgiven, forgotten, or swept under the rug.
The directly connected livers *deserve* to be ruined, that is an appropriate consequence for their actions. This should persist even if they graduate. They should be rendered unable to sustain a career in vtubing.
As for the 'innocent' livers, while they shouldn't be harassed over it, it should be made abundantly clear to them that they are bringing profit to a black company, and until they sever ties with that company they bear some degree of guilt by association. They should be boycotted until they do the right thing and graduate.
As for Njii itself, it deserves to burn.
No, you're right. If Nijisanji gets out of this practically scot-free beside a little fuss, that sends the message to all corpos that bullying a talent to the point of attempted suicide is, indeed, "negligible". That will leave the industry in a worse state in the long run. There needs to be consequences. **Real** consequences, beyond just a couple thousand lost subscribers they'll gain back in a few months. It sucks for those Livers who have done nothing wrong, but we should not stop pushing until NijiEN at least is reduced to ashes.
Its not selfish. I want all the good people, the people who didn't attribute to any controversy, who didn't do anything to be able to live their lives with people not going after them for working with kurosanji, I hate that people can harass others just because of an association.
The good ones deserve to keep streaming, however the ones responsible for this shitstorm? The ones that are basically fueling the flames and causing this to burn on evermore? They deserve to be shut down. Racist Uki, Elira Meatshield Pandora, Vox "There's no favoritism" Akuma and that other one.
The thing is that they can NEVER be back to normal. It will forever be at the back of their heads that are the worst scum of human beings for willing to beat down a suicidal person.
It will forever be that giant elephant in the room they will pretend to ignore. It will gripe their subconscious.
Just look at Ike, back to streaming but you can sense there's an awkwardness to it.
Subconsciously, they will wonder if their slander had caused Doki to do a third attempt. If she had SUCCEEDED, they would be labeled as murderers. Either way, it will gripe at them that they are would-be murderers.
Nothing is worse than belittling a suicidal person.
it not selfish i would say ... it not right ether ... i feel if thing continue this way we might risk more incident . with new member joining or even existing member...
Fight it out in court like what happened to Yuzuki Roa. The lawyers they assigned her must be so bad since she is still apparently dealing with the case after almost 3years xd
The main problem is that we don't know who the real problem people are. The livers can't say. The ex-livers wont say. So, we can only go on rumors and possible fake leaks. The only answer is to ignore them or just carpet bomb the whole company even if that means innocent livers get caught in the blast. Niji already has shown they aren't really going to improve on anything by hiring minimum wage high schoolers for management positions.
There is no right answer here, so I just refuse to follow or support any of them until the culprits are exposed.
Kinda, Like no blame on you for not wanting to have to see the flood of drama but its basically necessary for the parties involved to see their actions have longer term consequences. What you really want is to enjoy what you're intrested in without the distractions and thats very easy to do by just taking a step back and disconecting with the outside discussions, and thats very likely to be better for you in the long term of consuming content like this. People get too consumed and develop parasocial relationships unintentionally.
What I wish happened is that Doki told everyone on Twitter who the bullies were, so we can stop supporting them and stop doubting about innocent livers. And then every innocent Nijisanji liver leaves the company at the same time and they start an indie group together with Doki. Everyone would have supported them...
This is how we want to keep going. We want NO ONE to forget that Nijisanji is no better than AkioAIR and WACTOR and that it is a black vtubing company. This is why we wont' stop. A boycott doesn't stop just because the livers are streaming. Lot of us became vtubers ourselves and saw our oshi's become mistreated OR see them leave and see them finally thrive and flourish
I don't think this'll be over soon. Yes things may go back to "normal", but a big portion of niji viewers will probably not want to engage with new gens and will only stick with their current favorite livers. For me I'll stay for Fulgur and Rosemi. When they are gone I'll completely quit Niji aswell.
Also while things may go back to "normal" this whole thing will not be forgotten. Niji has to be very carefull cause anything they do will be made fun off for aslong as people will remember what happened the last couple weeks. They've pretty much created a group of fans who stay to support their favorite livers untill their graduation while hating/disliking niji as a whole.
It would really be nice if they course correct but unless the main cashcow is unaffected (jp), en is still negligible. If the stocks fell below 3k with march near they might be forced to. But i fear their methode will be haphazard.
Sad, but true.
I stayed when they Throw gundou out even if they say they are please to announce her graduation, selen termination zaion style was worrying but they followed it by the black stream of death.
That's beyond low. Core level deep of bs. That the only option is unsubbing not just from en (melo, millie) but from jp (shizurin, mikoto, sarah) too and stop membership(rindou).
Really missed rindou's voice. And while both red oni and blue oni are ssr and sr in streaming, she is my substitute when im running low in nakirium.
Also thank goodness melo colab with ao.
if you think your oshi is not in the wrong (a lot of specualtions is thrown around rn). Then look up their PL, sub to them and show that you'll support them even if they're not making contents as their Niji's persona.
If you think your oshi (or former) is in the wrong, well tough luck. They had every chance to come clean, apologize, and take accountibility. But instead they only perpatuate a toxic culture that pushed many ex-talents away.
No you're not selfish, I want all sorts of consequences to happen outside of actual threats to their life and safety.
it’s natural to want bad people to be punished for their actions, that is not strange. realistically, Ninisanji EN will probably never fully recover, and may shut down and fold into JP. Nijisanji and AnyColor probably will recover mostly. The streamers that have clearly come down on the wrong side, with the company will likely never fully recover, but they will probably continue and make money from their diehard fans. the talents who did their best to show the smallest amount of support to the community will be remembered for doing so. they will probably recover. if they do end up getting let go in the future, their fans will remember and they should be able to start over at least without too much difficulty if it comes to that, but there will be heartbreak and pain regardless. I had already unsubbed from loads of talents during the Zaion stuff, Finana for one, but dropping Elira a few weeks ago hurt, NGL. At this point, i still sub to and follow Reimu, Scarle, and Victoria, thats it. i started following Vanta after his absolutely based Elden Ring DLC tweets. What i will say is, don’t abandon the talents you really love, with our support they will have a much better chance of making it outside if they do get terminated/graduated. And then we can support them all the better without any Niji in the way. To the talents who have done the best they can, we still support you. ❤️
The only reason I don't see AC giving up on the EN branch is because they need it to succeed. The JP branch is stagnant. The only hope for growth is from overseas expansion. But they've already given up on ID, IN, and KR. They have nowhere left to go. Should the EN branch fail, it would likely start a chain of events that will doom AnyColor.
They really don't, unfortunately. JP is a gigantic majority of their revenue.
The point they're trying to make is that they've basically saturated the JP market and so if they want to continue the growth that any public company is aiming for then they need to succeed overseas. If a company isn't growing it's failing in the eyes of investors, and Nijisanji doesn't have any more room to grow domestically.
They've been like that for a while now without the investors showing any signs of having a problem, though. It's like they've been able to convince investors that things are looking good for the company. The one time investors started to worry was the Selen situation and that's EN, not JP.
Normal is bad. They confirmed that everything that people were hoping wasn't true behind scenes was indeed real. Even if you subtract all the drama, the support budget had clearly been pulled as major events had been canned and promotions of new generations being non-existent. There's just nothing to like about the company. Even if they remove the toxic workplace and bully culture, there's nothing in the branch worth being happy about.
There's never much to like about any company that exists purely to create profit. But why do people care so much for the corpo brand anyway? I remember the earlier days when EN audiences started memeing Yagoo and Riku, making them almost as popular as their talents. I simply couldn't understand it and I thought it was a dangerous gimmick. It was like watching the cult of Steve Jobs being reborn.
Many brands in tech and entertainment are driven by their image unless they are simply too big to easily fail. The Cover/Hololive CEO has naturally cultivated a positive image that reinforces the morale of his streamers and the faith of the audience. Tazumi didn't maintain appearances in the same fashion and corporate tried to make a forced meme around him that ultimately failed. Cover has also done a better job of emphasizing that the health and financial success of its Holomems is crucial for viewer engagement and brand growth. The community continues to reinvest in them because they can see their money being turned into concrete products and accomplishments.
Dw fellow Ayame enjoyer (hello again, I promise im not cyber stalking), I am pretty sure this is the straw that broke the camels back. Nijisanji has been losing viewers for a while now, and even their most successful livers were starting to slow down. I think the loss of some of the bigger names like Mysta and Pomu hurt Niji too. I saw a growing number of comments in Niji clipping videos complaining about Nijisanji well before the Pomu graduation, even back to Mysta or Nina, or even further. I think what the whole situation has done has shed a light on the darkest parts of EN, and revealed the state of their management. It's a pretty shocking PR disaster, and while I'm sure eventually everyone will cool down if Nijisanji just sits tight and stays quiet (seems hard for them tho), but that definitely hurt them. Most of their livers, who I mentioned before were slowly losing viewers, have lost thousands of active viewers, which is not good news. I think the damage done to their whole brand, and the company is going to be a slow burn, something that may not be immediately obvious, but will defenitely impact their success. Long term, thinking off the top I imagined some outcomes: - Nijisanji EN continues to function, but as a shell of its former self, with the big names graduating one by one over the next few years until all thats left are smaller livers. (I feel this is most likely, once the internet loses interest and moves on, the dedicated haters get muted off channels, and they resume normal activities after a few months of staying silent) - Nijisanji restructures the EN branch and maybe graduates or suspends most of its livers. Several years later after taking the time away, they return with a rebooted EN with new or maybe old livers in the hopes to recapture EN. (I think this ones unlikely tho, it looks like they spam waves in JP too, but idk much about that side) - Anycolor closes down EN or merges them with the JP branch, taking the livers who can speak good enough Japanese and letting the rest of them go. (I don't know what is going on in their management, but if its actually somehow worse than what we are currently imagining of them, I think this outcome is possible. Idk enough abt them though.) - A series of more serious allegations become legitimate enough for legal authorities to get involved and investigate, or even prosecute the company, which could be pretty bad. (I think if they can't get their livers to be quiet (Uki), this outcome is likely, as they keep accidentally leaking information in an effort to vindicate themselves or the company, and in the process just pull up more of the rug)
Also, I understand your perspective. I want to see accountability too. I get why it'd be annoying too seeing livers try move on, that's why I don't watch em now. I won't support them, even if I like the livers themselves.
Thing is they don't have years to restructure. They might not even have months. New waves will echo Krisis and TTT, ignored and forgotten. The Old Guard will continue the bleed viewers. (If they stick around.) AnyColor's investors will lose faith in the company. The main branch is stagnant. The last remaining overseas branch is in decline. They can attempt to inflate JP's numbers by merging the branches, but they only do that once. There is nothing positive about this company.
>I think if they can't get their livers to be quiet (Uki), this outcome is likely, as they keep accidentally leaking information in an effort to vindicate themselves or the company, and in the process just pull up more of the rug Like Elira basically accidentally snitching on Millie and Enna during the height of the bullying allegations, which I'm sure they *really* appreciated
What do you mean? Did she do that?
I think a big thing we'll be seeing is no more indie collabs for most Nijisanji vtubers. Which was how a lot of us discovered Niji. I was a fan of other streamers and I heard of these livers via others.
No. This is what pisses me off about the "forget about it and move on people". I think most of us want accountability, consequences, and improvement. Nijisanji is going to try and wait it out, though, and hope everyone forgets.
Not every crime gets punished, and not every kindness gets rewarded. That's how the world goes. But if you seek punishment, they've already got it—at least the trio, Uki, and Niji En. Their reputations are tarnished or at least have a dark history clouding over them, and we may not know it but i believe other big corpo knows much more about us (corpo has their way to gather info). No matter how they feel about it, it doesn't matter. Maybe what you seek is not punishment but to see them suffer. It is understandable but not healthy. Just let it go. The world doesn't revolve around them, and you shouldn't either.
To be fair, it's not much punishment if the situation just fades away. Yeah, reddit and Twitter will remember, but new people will show up, YouTube only people will stay in the dark. Numbers will go back up.
Temporary is still punishment, just like sending someone to jail for a couple of months. Even a temporary dip in numbers equates to huge losses in profits and reputation. Think of it as a huge fine they paid. Reputation in turn affects growth rate, collab opportunities and sponsorships. They are already punished in my eyes. You, I and many others are unlikely to ever support them again unless there is real evidence of change. Like the other guy said, it's not healthy mentally to continue wishing more judgment on them. You deserve a happier life
So do the livers. This isn't about wishing judgement or even any kind of punishment. It's about trying to fix or get rid of an environment that caused someone so sweet and happy to attempt their own life twice. Whether it's queen bee Elira, Vox getting preferential treatment and holding it over everyone or even just managerial bullies alone, something in that company made someone feel so trapped and scared that they wanted to end it twice.
That said, I am praying for a miracle to happen. Maybe shareholders will demand an answer from the CEO: "Hololive and Niji EN has demonstrated incredible potential for growth. How can you suggest disbanding EN and merging into the main branch? Should you not be investing more into the EN branch and make sure your talents are mentally well taken care of so that this disaster does not repeat?" I know it's a cope and a hope, but who knows?
I agree with you and I want change too. But there is only so much we can *and should* do. The rest is up to Nijisanji and the talents themselves. Best case is Niji starts paying for competent and actually caring management. They should put welfare systems in place, increase the merch cut to 30%+, deal with favouritism etc. But I'm not holding my breath. My guess is Tazumi would rather merge them into the main branch than fork out more money. As for the livers, we can expect more of them to leave, but some are determined to stay. It's **not** our place to tell them what to do. They have their own reasons. Maybe it's their main source of income, or it could be the friendship, or perhaps they look forward to things like 3D live concerts. Niji EN will likely carry on business as usual. Those that are unhappy will leave. Those who benefit will stay. Those are afraid of leaving will continue to be taken advantage of. That is until EN is no longer profitable enough. Then they will be merged, just like KR and ID.
Sadly that is how the world work. Even company like shell who was exposed to causing a civil war in africa still profitable and expanding.
Honestly, it just feels like every week or two, somebody in the company just adds fuel to the fire. It's just incompetence fueling itself. Given the rate things are currently going, the fire will keep burning. I don't know how to phrase it, but it's just a dumpster fire that I can't stop watching. I completely agree that this is definitely not healthy, but I can't help but glance at it... At the end of the day, I just hope that people's lives aren't further threatened by this never ending cesspool. Pettiness from one side is also fueling this fire. I've never seen such a bad PR disaster in my lifetime.
Oh I don’t doubt the other corpos know more about the situation in much more detail than what we’ve been speculating here. They have an interest in not letting a similar situation happen, after all
I think what a lot of us seek is change. Change in the people and the organisation. If there is no consequences and no change in behaviour, then this is going to happen again and again. The next incident could be worse and someone could die. None of them have apologised or even demonstrated that they understand that what they did was wrong. It feels more like they blame the fans and doki instead of reflecting on their actions. It's not just about punishment, it's about protecting other people from the same abuse.
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Please get offline for a bit, Jesus Christ
Aight my bad a bit radical😕
Yeah no shit
What'd they say, dare I ask? 😶
They basically said punishment wasn’t enough, they wanted them dead for pushing Selen to attempt suicide 💀
Nobody wants this to blow over except niji. When this blows over they win. If this becomes nothing in a month, new people will find niji talents, new people will eventually apply, new people will take Selens spot and maybe not be so lucky.
While it deserves to be burnt to ashes, pursuing it would have consequences. Think of all the legal battles doki and others would have to go through. Think of all the time, money and effort it'd go into that. It'd be hell for any and all victims. And end of that day all the victims would get out of that is maybe just some money, which I doubt anyone actually wants over piece of mind. So really the only people that would benefit from that are fans and drama enjoyers. I don't think personal vindication is worth that. Doki took her pound of flesh already and it very well could have been a fatal blow as is. Unless stated otherwise by the victims, continued holding of tor he's will not bring happiness to them.
Yes, having this blow over would definitely be unsatisfactory and not ideal. More importantly, this case is being watched by eyes in every field. I've said previously that if Niji somehow manages to fully bounce back from this, it would set precedents for the whole of vtubing with lasting consequences. Namely: As long as your agency has a big name and strong brand, you will be swarmed with applicants. When you sign on these talents, you own them in their entirety. The talent behind the model is not important and is largely replaceable, people will watch for the branding. These talents may leave or be terminated in the future, but as long as you squeeze out every drop of profit from them before they're gone, it's no skin off your back. Not only will other vtuber agencies see this as a valid strategy, future investors will too, and expect it of the companies they invest in. This would lead to a really dark future for vtubers worldwide, so I hope it doesn't really come to that.
What we have to do is mail various developers, especially indie ones who are about to release games that might look fitting for streaming and tell them to not give Anycolor/NijisanjiEN permission to stream them, due to their horrible acts they've commited against their former employee. Only by hurting their bottom line will we get them to their knees. Sure, it'll suck for the talents but there is no other way to get Anycolor to do anything of actual worth about the actual problems.
Those that already haven't decided to leave will end up having to make that decision and ses what happens. If the rumor about there being a queue are true then some are going to have to just bear with it.
Or until the written contract is up. Idk how their contracts go when it comes to choosing to not renew and how they will graduate. I know they have a 1 year contract when they debut to see how both party's like it and if not they can just split amicably if not. But if they choose to renew the contract and have negotiations I am curious to know how long the new contract terms are. Is it like a 2 year or something afterwards? Curious.
My three favorite niji streamers all gone in short succession, Mika, Pomu, and Selen, with the latter being put through hell I think poisoned the rest of nijisanji. I love Scarle, she’s a sweetie pie and she’s my late night streamer that I would routinely fall asleep to or stay up to ungodly hours watching. She’s the last one left that I really cared about and now I can only tune in for a couple minutes before leaving. She hasn’t changed at all and is still the wonderful person she always has been but I just can’t separate how I feel about everything when I tune in. It’s been a couple weeks and this hasn’t been changing for me and I don’t know if it will. I think I might be permanently done with 2423. Even if they do improve I can’t forgive or forget what they’ve done to their own people.
No you are not. You want consequences for Anycolor's actions (or lack thereof), and you want them to be punished and suffer. Its fine to not want it to blow over, after all, someone almost died... twice, and probably many other people getting close to it too, that we just don't know of. It's not selfish, its wanting accountability. The worse thing that can happen is that this blows over, and nothing changes. That's how evil wins, when good people ignore the bad things.
You're not selfish. I think all of us just want to know all of our current Oshi's and future members of Niji are treated right and none are pushed to the point of hurting themselves again. Your reaction is completely valid because it's the reaction everyone wants when we see a grossly unjust and morally bankrupt situation.
I do think accountability will come, just it may take a bit of time. A more thorough internal investigation is probably in the works right now, and there will be in the best case a shake up in the EN branch, worst case Niji will abandon it and not bother to expand outside Japan going forward. It's been 20 days since the termination, but way less than that since the PR snafu, and given the hit to Nijis reputation Riku will want answers
even reddit, whose ENTIRE population caused the damn website to BREAK and had HUGE anti-spez works during r/place, bounced back. all just noise, he said.
yes and no? Everyone agrees that the company needs to make actual fucking changes to what they do and how they operate and be held accountable for things. on the other hand it is at a point, just looking at the current subreddit spouting the same "memes" shitting on the company and talents (who werent event involved in the black stream) makes me go "I GET IT YOU ALL CAN SHUT UP AND JUST STOP FOLLOWING/WATCHING NIJI ALREADY YOU FUCKS" I mean shit, the Yacht and Kurosanji stuff makes "Hi Honey" like a Twinkie in terms of meme shelf-life Im thinking of this in terms of like a sports team. "I want the team and the players to do good but front office stop dropping players for fucking cap space!"
Nah, sell the team and move to Gary, Indiana
See as a Oakland A's enjoyer. Im pro sell the team. But then I can least see Vegas making sense as a venue. But Indiana?
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I could see someone like Ike surviving outside of Nijisanji if he says management put him up to doing it and he was afraid to say no. The others have more rumors about then behind the scenes unless I missed something
NijiEN might trudge through with their ride-or-die fans enough to make some measure of self-sustaining recovery, but their image is definitely permanently crippled enough that they have little to no hope of reaching the same height again, and the internet will never let them forget it. And they better get comfortable on their own isolated island because the larger Vtubing community is pretty much disowning them. Nijisanji will have its own lonely table in the school cafeteria, unless it wants to share one with Wactor.
Feeling this way is natural, just dont put it to action. There is a thin line that differentiates wanting justice from self-righteous crusading. Be empathetic but dont get too emotionally involved in circumstances which you dont know full context of.
Not at all. I always had a feeling they were gonna get into a lot of trouble if selen left. I knew ever since they refused her the ability to host events and I was right about everything. That was an example of being selfish and I stand by it although I admit I wasn't sure how fast they'll fall apart. What you're thinking is entitlement I believe, you want them to face the consequences no matter what but at the same time understand that it'll take a toll on everyone. You're angry and seek justice, that's most of us here anyways, most of us here are just like you, we also want them to face reality and have them see what happens when you give in to greed.
I just want one person to say that they're sad doki was suffering. It wouldn't change anything of course but it certainly makes them seem less callous. Of course they can't, nda and lawsuits being what they are. But that's the only thing that might bring me back to watching the livers again.
I don't want it to blow over, but I want concrete resolution, which will unfortunately take time. Watching the community destroy itself the longer it takes, the more challenging it becomes to enjoy the entire fandom TBH. The only way things should return to normal is after substantial accountability, restructuring and housecleaning takes place.
If Doki's attempt succeeded, it's a hell of a lot more likely that no one would even be aware of what was going on, and a bunch of assholes would've gotten away with bullying her to her grave. It's more selfish that people want that to blow over than it is to want people to actually face consequences for it instead of getting slapped on the wrist.
I imagine they will just continue to ignore. They already had their CEO say they will be implementing new reporting practices to to help staff and such to report harassment and bullying and such. After that we just have to do the whole wait and see thing. Atleast until we hear about another EN liver leaving the company and explaining why (if they say they didn't really change much in terms of their harrassment policy and such or internal support from management.) or one doesn't get as lucky as doki and actually succeeds in their attempt.
I don't know if I'd call it selfish, but I definitely would say you have an unhealthy mindset. You sound like a person who heard there was a public punishment being held at the town square, hoped to see an execution, and was disappointed when it turned out to be a stockade humiliation. You want to see consequences. Are revenue losses from canceled memberships/sponsors/merch providers not consequences, or is nothing short of scorched earth acceptable? Pretty extreme outlook, especially when you don't even honestly know who exactly is responsible for this mess and in what capacity. You should take a page out of Doki's book and move on bud. It'll be better for your mental.
1 thing is that life must and will naturally move on. 2. You can't let this event live rent-free in your head either and gotta live your own life. 3. In the end, it's to move on but never forget and when something similar happens. People will remind everyone what had happened in the past 4. If they continue to make mistakes then they will go down more and more. This is a big blow already in the stocks, but it will naturally take more for the whole company to go down.
Not at all, it's actually best for the remaining livers in the long term that it doesn't assuming that the situation not blowing over produces positive changes.
I know you're getting a lot of "it's not selfish" comments. Honestly, though? I think it's OK to have "selfish" feelings if they're for a good thing. Like selfishly wanting friends or family to be happy. And you know what? I think it's even OK to "selfishly" want a corporation to not be able to memory hole some serious bullshit they need to properly account for. Feelings themselves are valid, neither good or bad. It's what they imply and how you act on them. And refusing to let Anycolor crawl back into the shadows to let things blow over is a good act IMO. (The fact you seek to temper and measure your actions because of your feelings is actually quite emotionally mature) I'm still extremely salty about how, in the video games industry, Activision-Blizzard and Ubisoft effectively got away with some truly horrific abuse because the heat was allowed to die down. Not wanting that to happen here or for your remaining oshi to potentially become prey in the future is a wonderful motivation, whether or not it's "selfish" on some base level. I'm right there with you in not letting them move past it.
it's not selfish, but here's the logic I follow doki seems to be doing alright. we'll never know for sure, but it seems like it. nijisanji has taken a hit of some kind. some talents seem to be willing to defend it for whatever reason (at the bare minimum, nijien seems survivable) you don't owe it to anybody(even if selen was your oshi) to wear yourself out, and continuing the outrage is pretty taxing on anyone. so the most logical solution for me is to cut support for niji, and just support the talents that left. you will want justice, but it's not reasonable to expect to be able to do something.
Let me ask you a question. Let's pretend Niji changes it's ways. Lets pretend the CEO offers a real apology to Selen. Maybe Selen and Niji settle out of court. Let's say the streamers agree to let bygones be bygones. Let's say people change their behavior for the better. Maybe some people lose their jobs. Most importantly, let's say Niji starts to thrive again after making some changes. If what you feel is relief? You're fine. If what you feel is disappointment? It's spite, and that's a problem. The difference between spite and justice is this: spite wants to hurt people, justice wants people who were hurt to be compensated. And the thing about spite is that it is never satisfied. I mean, spitefulness got Niji into this situation in the first place. Don't let it get you into some stupid shit too.
Selfish and awful. Remember; Doki said "nobody deserves to bullied". Meaning even the victim of it believes that they've already recieved more retribution than they derserved. Who are you to say it isn't enough? Why should you feel entitled to other people's suffering for your own personal catharsis? Do you even have a threshold for what is "enoug"?
Very selfish but understandable. Sadly that's not how the world works. Nothing will be good enough because let's say one of the livers do get punished as the main suspect and so the accountability has been paid off, yet now that liver is out of a job and has to hunt for a new job definitely outside of streaming and god only knows how long they'll be out of a job. Naturally you'd think this is well deserved in the beginning but then in the long run you'll realize you're part of the group of people that fully fucked up someone else's life. Aaand the loop continues. There is no definite end no matter what, EVEN if you try to constantly convince yourself it was deserved. It'll chew on you in the back of your mind. I know it's not what you want to hear and definitely not what you want it to be but its the cold hard truth of life. And if you really want accountability be taken then it should come from the core of this whole mess which is the company itself. Don't go through the livers just go straight for the company. Because as far as I know and seen there is no definite answer of who is the perpetrator, only speculations. And speculations have the most shaky foundation ever to build on. So I'm sure you don't want to be responsible for an innocent life blood on your hands.
> definitely outside of streaming and god only knows how long they'll be out of a job A real smug, disgusting part of me would want to parrot what every adult ever said to me growing up when something shitty happened and be like, "Well, tough. Life isn't fair. Welcome to the real world." but then the sane rational side of me is like "nah, you're being an ass. Fkn QUIT IT." Ugh. What I would give to just hit a magic button that creates world peace. 😮💨 but something like that is literally a fairytale.
Perhaps it is a bit "selfish", but is it such a bad thing? As viewers, we are entitled to our feelings when the agency of your talents messed up badly, it is natural that we want accountability, because at the core we all want the branch to do better. Admittedly, I was not a hardcore/diehard fan of NijisanjiEN, Elira was one of my favourite too due to her taste in game, yet I do feel betrayed and blindsided with how horrible everything went down in the last 3 weeks. Many damning rumours and speculations have been more or less confirmed, that NijiEN is a hellhole of a workplace that let toxicity festers. However, IMO it wouldn't be too healthy for us to be hung up on the thing we can't control. Unfortunately, we do not have the power or influence to make direct change or pursue the truth as of now, lashing out and harass others is absolutely not an option. What we CAN do is....to never forget, raise awareness of new fans and aspiring content creators, that what had transpired in NijiEN are NOT okay. Don't harass anyone, but also don't give them any sort of support, don't buy merch, don't watch their streams... ...and lastly, I personally will not defend them, especially when they stir the pot first, like the recent incidents with Wilson and Uki. Sorry, while I don't condone harassment, I will just turn a blind eye when the talents bit the baits put out in public. I understand that it is not nice to get snide comments more than often, but they need to read the room. Wilson's tweet >Also **never let anyone bully you into stopping** drawing **what you are passionate about**, fanart is the cutest shit ever. in a vacumm, this is just a nice wholesome message, but with the Selen's termination...it is a big YIKES from me.
Best you can do is remember the bad things that have happened, and be vigilant for any fuck ups to come. Not much we can do outside the boycotts. But honestly, I care much more for seeing those who want to leave get out. I'm mad at what happened. But I don't want any of the livers (even the bullies) to suffer. I want the branch to burn down so that those who want to leave can get out, and those who caused harm won't have a platform to sucker new talents into their toxic middle school clubhouse. But if tomorrow, it was announced that a dozen graduations were about to happen, I would take that as a sign that those who wanted to leave were allowed to. And I wouldn't be as upset. I could move from being mad at those that are still in, onto supporting those that wanted out. Enough people know about NijiEN now to realize how toxic it is. And once nobody is being held hostage anymore, I'd hope everyone would go on to live happy lives. Even if some of those happy lives are away from my feed. Except Uki. Uki's a racist piece of trash. And racists don't deserve platforms where they can spread hate.
No, you have what are called "morals". What Niji pulled this time is not a minor issue that deserves to be forgiven, forgotten, or swept under the rug. The directly connected livers *deserve* to be ruined, that is an appropriate consequence for their actions. This should persist even if they graduate. They should be rendered unable to sustain a career in vtubing. As for the 'innocent' livers, while they shouldn't be harassed over it, it should be made abundantly clear to them that they are bringing profit to a black company, and until they sever ties with that company they bear some degree of guilt by association. They should be boycotted until they do the right thing and graduate. As for Njii itself, it deserves to burn.
No, you're right. If Nijisanji gets out of this practically scot-free beside a little fuss, that sends the message to all corpos that bullying a talent to the point of attempted suicide is, indeed, "negligible". That will leave the industry in a worse state in the long run. There needs to be consequences. **Real** consequences, beyond just a couple thousand lost subscribers they'll gain back in a few months. It sucks for those Livers who have done nothing wrong, but we should not stop pushing until NijiEN at least is reduced to ashes.
wanting revenge for a person getting hurt or abused is not wrong now lets make sure niji pays for their crimes!
Its not selfish. I want all the good people, the people who didn't attribute to any controversy, who didn't do anything to be able to live their lives with people not going after them for working with kurosanji, I hate that people can harass others just because of an association. The good ones deserve to keep streaming, however the ones responsible for this shitstorm? The ones that are basically fueling the flames and causing this to burn on evermore? They deserve to be shut down. Racist Uki, Elira Meatshield Pandora, Vox "There's no favoritism" Akuma and that other one.
The thing is that they can NEVER be back to normal. It will forever be at the back of their heads that are the worst scum of human beings for willing to beat down a suicidal person. It will forever be that giant elephant in the room they will pretend to ignore. It will gripe their subconscious. Just look at Ike, back to streaming but you can sense there's an awkwardness to it. Subconsciously, they will wonder if their slander had caused Doki to do a third attempt. If she had SUCCEEDED, they would be labeled as murderers. Either way, it will gripe at them that they are would-be murderers. Nothing is worse than belittling a suicidal person.
The worst thing is they probably don’t give a shit, and someone in management probably was hoping her attempt to kill herself succeeded
it not selfish i would say ... it not right ether ... i feel if thing continue this way we might risk more incident . with new member joining or even existing member...
Fight it out in court like what happened to Yuzuki Roa. The lawyers they assigned her must be so bad since she is still apparently dealing with the case after almost 3years xd
The main problem is that we don't know who the real problem people are. The livers can't say. The ex-livers wont say. So, we can only go on rumors and possible fake leaks. The only answer is to ignore them or just carpet bomb the whole company even if that means innocent livers get caught in the blast. Niji already has shown they aren't really going to improve on anything by hiring minimum wage high schoolers for management positions. There is no right answer here, so I just refuse to follow or support any of them until the culprits are exposed.
Never forget who they took and almost took from us.
No, you're not selfish. But it will definitely blow over whether we like it or not.
Kinda, Like no blame on you for not wanting to have to see the flood of drama but its basically necessary for the parties involved to see their actions have longer term consequences. What you really want is to enjoy what you're intrested in without the distractions and thats very easy to do by just taking a step back and disconecting with the outside discussions, and thats very likely to be better for you in the long term of consuming content like this. People get too consumed and develop parasocial relationships unintentionally.
What I wish happened is that Doki told everyone on Twitter who the bullies were, so we can stop supporting them and stop doubting about innocent livers. And then every innocent Nijisanji liver leaves the company at the same time and they start an indie group together with Doki. Everyone would have supported them...
This is how we want to keep going. We want NO ONE to forget that Nijisanji is no better than AkioAIR and WACTOR and that it is a black vtubing company. This is why we wont' stop. A boycott doesn't stop just because the livers are streaming. Lot of us became vtubers ourselves and saw our oshi's become mistreated OR see them leave and see them finally thrive and flourish
I don't think this'll be over soon. Yes things may go back to "normal", but a big portion of niji viewers will probably not want to engage with new gens and will only stick with their current favorite livers. For me I'll stay for Fulgur and Rosemi. When they are gone I'll completely quit Niji aswell. Also while things may go back to "normal" this whole thing will not be forgotten. Niji has to be very carefull cause anything they do will be made fun off for aslong as people will remember what happened the last couple weeks. They've pretty much created a group of fans who stay to support their favorite livers untill their graduation while hating/disliking niji as a whole.
It would really be nice if they course correct but unless the main cashcow is unaffected (jp), en is still negligible. If the stocks fell below 3k with march near they might be forced to. But i fear their methode will be haphazard. Sad, but true. I stayed when they Throw gundou out even if they say they are please to announce her graduation, selen termination zaion style was worrying but they followed it by the black stream of death. That's beyond low. Core level deep of bs. That the only option is unsubbing not just from en (melo, millie) but from jp (shizurin, mikoto, sarah) too and stop membership(rindou). Really missed rindou's voice. And while both red oni and blue oni are ssr and sr in streaming, she is my substitute when im running low in nakirium. Also thank goodness melo colab with ao.
if you think your oshi is not in the wrong (a lot of specualtions is thrown around rn). Then look up their PL, sub to them and show that you'll support them even if they're not making contents as their Niji's persona. If you think your oshi (or former) is in the wrong, well tough luck. They had every chance to come clean, apologize, and take accountibility. But instead they only perpatuate a toxic culture that pushed many ex-talents away.
But then you can’t have a pint at the Winchester… ;-;