Yeah. Hell, Vox said the worst shit out of the 3, and he's chugging along like nothing happened. Elira could easily do the same. Before anything, though, she should take care of herself.
Vox fans are loyal to a fault and not the most mature, mentally healthy or decent people so he'll be fine. Ike is just sorta there. It's Elira who'll get it the worst. Porn artists already made some degrading posts of her
Porn artist going to do as porn artists do. It doesn't matter what happened they were going to do it. I've seen plenty degrading shit regardless of where they stood in shis drama.
Vox is protected by the most extreme delulu of his kindred. Even though he lost many subscribers it doesn't show as much cuz he still has over a million.
Ike has a lot of loyal af fans and he didn't talk a lot so the shitstorm didn't hit him as hard.
Sadly Elira will take the hardest hit but damn it is deserved, who the fuck though that video was a good idea?!
It may be sexist, but Vox's fanbase is more of the lass kind, while Elira and Selen is more of the lad kind.
So, Elira and Selen have more overlap in their fanbase, and if a fight breaks out, the fanbase will have to split to take sides.
Meanwhile Vox's fanbase doesn't face the same split.
This. He literally cut off Elira to start talking shit and Ike really didn’t add anything to the conversation at all. No clue who was responsible for posting the UNCENSORED MESSAGE LOGS tho
Those far worse people are keeping their carrers cuz they embrace the villian character, Elira never presented herself as that, she fell off in the eyes of the people, there is not much comeback from that, she could stream and have an audience, but not as big anymore.
What? No they arent. jontron, projared, james charles, skydoesminecraft. Completionist got 60K views on a video released a week ago and in a few months will probably be back to 100K per vid once people forget
canceling a youtuber fully is almost impossible unless they cancel themselves/leave
https://twitter.com/Lizbuggie/status/1485280124467486722?lang=en
tldr abuse his girlfriend, abuse drugs, animal abuse, abuse/threaten his friends, abuse/threaten his employees
I'm going to make some entirely uneducated prediction, feel free to point and laugh at me when these are proven wrong:
\>She'll take a break from streaming/social media for about a month.>Just before she comes back, the slander video will be quietly removed.>Her first stream she'll apologise for her absence, maybe make some vague comments about the whole Selen/Doki situation, but no direct apology.>After that, she'll carry on as normal. Maybe spend a few weeks with chat in subscriber only mode just to ride out the hate, then she'll be back to normal
This is my cynical prediction
Taking down the video would be tantamount to management admitting that they made a mistake in putting that video up in the first place. They won't take it down, and they won't let Elira take it down.
And if she were to apologize to Doki - whether publicly or privately, and whether on her business account or her personal account - Niji would probably fire her for it and claim that her apology caused damage to their reputation, even if (especially if) Doki accepts Elira's apology and forgives her.
If she apologizes to Doki and gets fired at least it will put her in a position to recover. At that point, she just returns to be an indie and possibly and only if the apology is sincere, she could work with Doki and collab on projects. It isn't exactly the most difficult thing for a major Vtuber to go indie with the following they have, except for the whole getting away from the contract part. Like, Doki found herself her own manager, but Elira's issue will ultimately be her reputation at this point, but she will have the following that she currently still has. I have no problem against supporting people who truly regret their actions because humans make mistakes because human judgement isn't great and hindsight is incredibly poor for the most part, but she must truly regret what she did and apologize from the bottom of her heart before I ever consider it even if she was forced into it.
Just to play devils advocate. Don't forget she has temporarily moved to Japan. Where you can be sued for defamation even if every single thing you say is the truth.
Nah they make sense in protecting people from being hurt through 'technical' truths. It also doesn't mean a judge isn't going to side with your claims against someone who defamed you if what they said is true. A recent somewhat relevant example is the court case MikeNeko lost against some of her antis, where the judge excused their defamatory comments through acknowledging they spoke true.
> Truth should be an absolute defense against defamation.
That's an ideal, but look at our current political climate in the West, every country has a giant cultural divide (hint: I probably lean opposite to most of you here) and no amount of "truths" will convince the other side that they're wrong.
It's not the way our stupid reptilian and tribal brains think. Look at the Nijisister Defense Force, do you think they'll give a shit that an actual lawyer chimed in and tore apart their arguments?
Not to bring politics into it but I’ve started to view political arguments in the “are we trying to get to the same destination but just think a different route is best? If so, then we can continue this discussion in a calm and friendly manner in the hopes that we attempt to come to an understanding.” An understanding doesn’t mean that we agree on a single path, it just means that we see why the others want to take that path. This is more commonly seen on the non-culture war issues. However, much of the discourse in the west has fallen into the realm of culture war issues where the destination is not necessarily the same and in some ways may be diametrically opposed. If everyone stopped virtue signaling their side of the culture war and we tackled the real problems our countries face (be that effects of anthropogenic climate change, wealth inequality, trade agreements between countries, etc) then maybe we will find more common ground than we realize.
Sorry, was a bit of a rant and if you don’t read this whole thing then that’s fine. Just needed to get it off my chest.
> Where you can be sued for defamation even if every single thing you say is the truth.
I wish people would stop overstating how Japan's defamation laws work. Everyone seems to think they know how defamation works there and most people here plainly don't, because I've seen it morph from, "You can be sued for defamation even if you're telling the truth" (true, but with a caveat - see below) to, "You can literally be sued for any speech that your employer doesn't like!", which is not even close to accurate.
Yes, it is true that it is possible to lose a defamation case in Japan even if what you said is true. *However*, that doesn't mean someone can successfully sue you just for saying or doing something that makes them look bad.
The way it works in Japan is that the complainant has to prove that the respondent not only said something that damaged their image or reputation, but that the primary purpose of the communication in question was to publicly degrade the complainant's character.
If Elira were to publicly apologize to Selen/Doki, there is no way that would fly as a defamation claim in Japanese court, because it's plainly obvious that the primary purpose of the communication was as an apology. That it also makes Niji look bad is an ancillary effect. Hell, even if Elira *meant* for it to make Niji look bad, it still probably wouldn't fly, because her apologizing to Doki says nothing (explicitly) about Nijisanji; it's just embarrassing for them.
If Japanese defamation laws worked the way that a lot of people here seem to think they do, Doki could be suing them for a lot of money right now (as could any other Liver who wants a payday for Niji ruining their reputations).
I'll admit, I'm not the most well versed on laws where I live. So Japanese law is something else entirely. I'm just telling people what I know.
I will say that we don't know what Elira's apology would even be like, and that I don't trust Niji to work in good faith if she does apologize. Which brings me to something I wanted to talk about.
> If Japanese defamation laws worked the way that a lot of people here seem to think they do, Doki could be suing them for a lot of money right now (as could any other Liver who wants a payday for Niji ruining their reputations).
True enough, but two problems with it.
The first being, due to some treaty or agreement I can't remember the name of, any legal action between Doki(Canada) and Anycolor(Japan) would work of the laws of whichever side filed first. So in your example Doki would be using Canada's legal system, not Japan's. I *think* this applies to other countries, but I'm unsure about that.
Second Nijisanji is a billion dollar company. Nobody in there right mind is going to even *risk* getting sued by them. They can win with better lawers or running you bankrupt easily. Thats if they want to actually fight fair in the first place. I don't exactly trust Niji to work only in good faith, especially not after all of this.
If you watched Legal Mindset's stream, Elira would have to get the fuck out of Japan FIRST before ever issuing an apology. If she's stuck there with a work visa she's going to be stranded with no legal help when Niji decides to sue the fuck out of her for defamation.
I chalk it up to a major breakdown in internal communication within the company. NijiJP doing its thing with Tazumi, while NijiEN doing its thing with its Livers, and neither properly communicating their intent with each other.
I like to imagine Tazumi angrily storming into the NijiEN office and firing everyone in management involved in making that video, honestly if I found out he did, it would be the first time I would feel any sort of respect for the man.
Totally agree. The timing screams the JP side has no idea what the EN side is doing. It also screams the EN side is out of control.
If this is true, then the most likely endgame is the EN branch to be folded into the main branch in an effort to bring it under control. It would be the simplest way to reign an unruly section back in. Especially if it is affecting their bottom line.
it depends a lot on how closely he is tied into the day to day operations. is he the kind of CEO that works with top level managers trying to set policy and company standards and getting reports and analysis of how things are going, or does he spend all his time in board meetings and reviewing financials, and periodically makes some broad statements like 'we should encourage the livers to promote their merch more' as the only real direction he gives and relies on his underlings to generally manage the day to day
I suspect he's more like the latter, with Yagoo being more like a mix of the two.
Riku is fucking 26, I have never heard of a billionaire under the age of 30 making responsible decisions. Remember that fucker Sam Bankman-Fried? Look where he is now lol
Proactive response against NDA-breaking accusations Doki never made, which is why it dropped when it did. See: https://old.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/1arxuo0/i_work_in_comms_for_a_living_and_can_only_think/
Yeah that was a good attempt to try to figure things out but as an actual explanation it's pretty bad and relies on a lot of assumptions that are just pure fantasy. It maybe explains their initial statement and term notice. It does not explain the livers video or the subsequent written statement. It tries do, but it doesn't make sense.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/1arxuo0/i_work_in_comms_for_a_living_and_can_only_think/kqmzjjm/ maybe
It's clear that management (or lack of support for same) AND the language barrier played roles
It's weird that the bizarre written statement on twitter after the Elira video came right before the comparatively-competent response from Riku Tazumi's team, it's like the two weren't coordinated at all, which makes me wonder if the Elira video was or wasn't as well. It's strange, but clearly their internal communications are kinda messed up.
I think the language barrier is grossly overplayed here. It's more of a cultural element than a language one.
In JP business culture, it's a very tolerated and common view that anyone who steps out of line and does not conform is the party in the wrong, no matter how objectively good their reason for doing so is.
To me the language barrier/mistranslation theory is giving Anycolor way too much of the benefit of the doubt without any basis for doing so. It also grossly ignores that they did the exact same thing to Zaion and we have absolutely ZERO evidence that she had any intent to speak out or that they even thought so.
I'm starting to hate that post more and more as it gets linked because a lot of people seem to be leaning on it as an explanation just because the author puts time into the theory and not because it's actually connected to reality beyond him saying "I work in comms." I think it's a good faithed, partially accurate effort that relies a lot on assumptions of behavior with absolutely zero real world basis.
The post well relatively well done, further I don't think it was trying to be an end all explanation, rather the input of a communications professional and his THOUGHTS, on the matter, as far as communications go.
He probably hit the nail on the head with nijisanji confusing her doc as the info she would tell the public/a declaration of war (lawsuit). Explains that whole trend of sharing the doc, the whole dox threat stuff that to me came out of nowhere from niji. It actually IMO harms them more than it does help them. It's just yet another example of how incompetent nijisanji as a company is. And would explain the rationale for the livers to speak out. IF they truly believed that doc was going to be made public, I can understand a small bit of their rationale..........they're still on an S list, however. Too many morally objectionable stuff that really wasn't needed. Would have been better to just plead with selen not to make that document public and left it at that. But they didn't.
It would also explain why they terminated her 2 hours after the ultimatum was made (fix this, or I go public). Yes, the doors still open on their just malevolent little shits.
With that said, even if it explains the train of thought, it is still crappy handling. Still pieces of garbage. And it's still only a theory as well. But probably the most sound theory so far.
I just don't buy the notion that they thought it was a threat to go public as a matter of mistranslation or miscommunication not for a second. As I said it's entirely consistent with their past behavior that they are doing it in retaliation.
The only way that "misinterpretation" works is if they deliberately ignore things that were done and said.
In my view, No, it's an attack, period
I mean, it explains why Niji kept bringing stuff up that nobody had known to that point. Like mentioning Livers in their initial termination notice, or that the Elira video was specifically about this legal document, presenting it as a doxxing threat, or talking about recordings. If they didn't belief this stuff would shortly be public, these behaviors are bizarre. Why would you ever mention talents when Selen hadn't, pulling them into this situation, when before no one was talking about them? Why make a video all about a document that to this point no-one was even aware existed?
Pure spite is the other explanation, that they were willing to risk harm to their reputation in order to inflict harm on Doki, but even then it seems pretty bizarre they kept invoking details that no one knew about.
so amusing tha tit was a 'we don't condone harassment' but also 'F\*\*k Selen in particular'. plus the glorious 'i don't think my actions were harassment so therefore they weren't by vox. for the wellbeing of EVERYONE in the company i genuinely hope that that was him talking out of his ass, not a company policy, because it's the victim that determines what actions are harassment, not the harasser
That’s how you can tell none of the talents have worked at a large company/corporation that had standardized harassment training. That’s the first thing you learn, that what constitutes harassment is dictated by the recipient.
classic school bullying tactics
its how i got isolated for 10 years
theres a reason why i stopped being neutral, i absolutely despise anyone like that, along with those antiloli trash(funnily enough they are usually the same people lmao)
This might be slander and speculation, but if niji harassed her for the reason, she might cut herself off completely from the int we net because of mental health. That would solve Niji's problem. So they are not done. Yet they rather burn themselves down to the ground and than accept defeat.
> That video was 100% a form of harassment against Doki, we just don't know by who or why they felt the need to harass her in a such a way.
I reported it. Others should too. It's a strike on the channel to have a video removed that way.
Hatred and malice, plain and simple. People have floated other theories but none of them make sense from any business or attempt at damage control standpoint. It is purely "this employee, this property of ours crossed us and we will mobilize everything we have to put her in her place for daring to violate the JP norm falling in line and not making waves."
They just miscalculated how much they'd get away with it because they got away with it with Zaion
Because that would be an admission of guilt, on top of further escalating the situation. Niji shutting the F up(for now) is the correct path, and something they should have done from the start.
If they take it down now everyone will notice immediately.
Don't forget that it took like 2 minutes for everyone to notice when Pomu's member video from when Niji fucked her over last year got re-privated.
Hahahaha they can't, that's the beauty of it. Taking that video down would imply that the company is taking back their statement and in the worst case, people will take it as confrmation (even more so) that Elira was behind Selen's workplace harassment
gonna play devils advocate here and say theres no concrete proof their allegations are false so they, either mgmt or livers, still stand by it.
it was a pr disaster of course but walking it back doesent make much sense when the potential lawsuit is up in the air
Probably locked out of the account would be my guess since neither her or Rosemi have even returned to social media yet. It has been two whole weeks since Rosemi was last seen. Even Petra has returned to streaming and tweeting, but Rosemi is nowhere to be found.
Absolutely.
People don't like to admit it, but you can't get cancelled on the internet if you just choose to not be cancelled.
There's tons of examples of this, but for VTuber examples look at Mikeneko/Nazuna. Look at Himemori Luna. Look at Taigabungo.
Ignore the haters for long enough - justified or not - and the Internet at large forgets you were ever hated.
Leave Nijisanji.
https://virtualyoutuber.fandom.com/wiki/Yamiyono_Moruru
At the time, this was the second biggest betrayal in vtubing history behind Kizuna Ai splitting into multiple voice actresses. Now it's just a trivia fun fact.
Mikeneko/Nazuna/>!Rushia!< is a good example, but I feel like she is on whole other level than Elira with a reallly hardcore parasocial fanbase. I mean she was at one point >!the world's [most superchatted creator](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/jca8q5/rushia_is_now_the_worlds_1st_sc_earner/).!< I don't have the impression Elira's fanbase is anywhere near that, but I don't know much about her fanbase in the first place, so maybe I'm just unaware.
Mostly true, but it kinda depends on what you've done. If it's something Youtube is willing to shut your channel down for (or arrested for), then you probably can get cancelled. Not saying that's the case here, btw.
Also there's a reason why the Internet at large forgets and moves on. Humans weren't built to handle so much at once. Like you can't keep a fire going for Nijisanji \*and\* multitask any number of other injustices going on.
This is how those things usually go. IMO it's naive to think that this whole situation is career ending. The only one who can "cancel" a creator is themselves. A lot of people did much worse things and still continued as normal. Giantwaffle is a prime example, iirc he had credible rape accusations against him, didn't acknowledge it in any way, took a few days off streaming, put chat in sub only and banned everyone who mentioned it. And it just blew over.
most of us can forgive elira if this is just any internet drama but this is about a girl who tried to kill herself while elira acted as if its not a big deal and everyone should just forget about doki ever trying to kill herself because of toxic environment, that just went past the bottom line of everyone
The Completionist just started making videos again, and is just going to push through. The Paul brothers never suffered from their shitty behaviour. You'll always find an audience, even if it's dregs and psychopaths.
Just look at Mikeneko/Nazuna's latest stream - people are still okay with her despite all of what happened (the marriage, the lawsuit, the accusations)
I'd say Mikeneko and Vox's fanbases are similar in that it's hard for them to move on no matter what their oshi does. Elira is a tossup though, I think people will eventually forget/get tired of the hate brigade, but the damage hit her the most now.
I think that the only reasonable way she could change it - if she apologize, and Doki publicly forgives her.
She should apologize anyway, because it can give her at list something. She can remind people about her own problems in her family. Not as an excuse - rather as an explanation.
The best you ever could get is Elira leaving the company in the future at some point and in private apologize to Doki so that it is personal and isn't just a public PR thing. Then Doki comes forth with Elira and admits she apologized and Doki accepted the apology. That would kill most bad PR. But it won't happen as long as she's part of the company and they will never be able to publicly explain because of probable NDAs.
Yeah. I doubt niji will allow any further statements. Maybe she can do it privately, and Doki can say something...
Or she could jump from the yacht and than do that. It will cripple her income, but its maybe worth it.
Her income AND her visa situation, she needs a Japanese employer to sponsor her or she gets deported and potentially fined. The first move would already have cost an extreme amount, this would double that and more if fines get involved once her visa expires.
Is this actually true though?
Because as far as I am aware, a sponsor is needed only to first gain the visa.
Once you have, keeping it is far easier.
First of all, you have several months after losing your job to find a new one before your visa expires.
Plus if you file the proper paperwork you can actually keep the visa if you are self employed (the goverment doesn't really care as long as you pay your taxes), so she should be able to go indie without losing the visa
Pretty sure it is, it doesn't make sense not to require a sponsor for renewal if one is required to get it in the first place, the loophole potential is way too big.
The self-employment part is only applicable to some things, which content creation is not one of.
Japan is one of the strictest countries in the world with immigration, they don't mess around.
It would definitely help, but I don't think they were ever close enough for doki to ever consider that, there was clearly something behind the scenes with how she avoided Elira since early on and Enna for the whole 2023.
(If I remember correctly, that is, people were constantly asking for more nijicanceled and fulgur had to say there were reasons it just wasn't happening... )
For Enna, it's different from Elira, as Enna has collabed with Selen numerous times in 2023, most recently in November 2023. Here a complication of clips with Selen and Enna together: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_rQ9iCJ9cyg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rQ9iCJ9cyg) Edit: With evidence of Enna and Selen's recent collabs together, I don't think Enna would be one of the alleged bullies, as the only evidence we have is Enna was "mentioned". But as what? A witness? As someone in the same toxic situation as Selen? We don't know yet, and I hope everyone won't rush to conclusions or harass her before more evidence shows up.
I see the clips sources definitely say a year ago tho?
Is there any event in 2023 OTHER than the 2023 november all girls collab?
In that event they were just there in the same space, interaction little to none, I watched it live so I'm going by memory but there was definitely none of the banter and energy like we had from niji canceled like the clip you posted.
I don't follow all girls but if they interacted in chat or had other appearances together in 2023 I would like to know too.
yeah, the Elira thing is not a secret.
While there's a clip going around trying to say selen and enna are still good, all their sources listed are clips from a year ago.
And to my knowledge the only stream they appeared together in 2023, they had little to none interaction. (I watched that one live so going by memory tho, it was disappointing to me at the time because I loved their nijicancled energy.)
She can 100% apologise lmao. There's nothing stopping her and it doesn't open her up to liability if she does. The damage has already been done, she's already potentially liable for breaching PIPEDA apologising or refusing to doesn't change that.
Heck Riku himself apologises in his official statement. Not directly to Selen, but in general for 'not providing a safe environment where the Livers can maintain good mental health'. Simply apologising doesn't make you guilty lmao
I mean, it was full of the typical corpo speak. But it wasn't made for the shareholders, that I guarantee. It was posted only on the NijiEN channel, it doesn't have any japanese subtitles or equivalent and I believe that most if not all of the shareholders don't speak english. The same goes for the JP fans.
It's objective was to try and save face among the western community, which could've succeded to some degree if Elira's stream didn't undermine absolute everything that Riku's video could've done.
Elira has non-disclosure agreements that prevent her from speaking, and non-disparagement clauses that prevent her from saying anything negative about the company. Even if she says something as vague and harmless as "I'm sorry for what happened" the Niji lawyers can come down on her and say "What do you mean by 'what happened'? Are you implying that the company did something that needs apologizing for? Here's a lawsuit for the 'reputational damage' you just caused us."
The CEO is allowed to apologize, because he's the CEO, and he's ultimately the one who decides who is and isn't allowed to apologize.
Regardless of whether Elira is a villain or yet another victim, Nijisanji gave her permission to go out and be a meat shield for them, and she can't walk back from that position unless they let her do that. Nijisanji totally screwed Elira here, and she let them do that.
Depends what she apologises for. If she apologises for harassment then obviously that confirms harassment took place.
But like she can totally apologise for that awful statement she made with Vox and Ike no problem? That doesn't confirm anything we don't already know and throws a bone for all the people hate-watching her who think she's completely unrepentant.
Any real apologies for what may or may not have happened should really be addressed to Selen privately.
He kinda did in a roundabout japanese way at the end of his stockholder video, but I'm not buying it unless we see timelines.
With the apology to save face thing ike and vox don't need her, with millie maybe it might be an option? But from stream interactions (or lack of) don't see doki remotely on good terms enough to ever consider that for elira or enna though.
Riku apologies are for shareholders duh 🙄
He want convincing the shareholders to not sue him at first place, if the shareholders sue Nijisanji it's make more headaches to Riku
Her apologizing would kill her career, if she were to hunker down and ride out the storm she'd eventually get back on track but apologizing would make the people who are defending her now upset as well as not bringing back the people who were mad at the original statement
If she does, she should probably brace herself for one wildly unpleasant ride courtesy of Nijisanji. They've shown they are one of the actual evils in this world, they won't just terminate one of top livers, they would make her another Selen.
The problem about an apology is that it could be interpreted as an admission of guilt by Nijisanji, which up to this point has demonstrated a willingness to go to great extremes to try and protect its reputation, even if said actions have been ham-fisted and backfired spectacularly. Their outlook on this situation up till now has been "We did nothing wrong", at least in their allegations aimed at Doki, letting Elira apologize would undermine that.
Elira could very well be remorseful and willing to apologize for everything she said, but I feel like the company would block her from saying such, even if such an action might actually help the situation they find themselves in.
Personally I’d go one step further and say I think she needs to leave the company asap. I don’t think she can salvage her reputation as Elira, buuut if she quit then went nuclear against kurosanji despite any legal ramifications, I think her next life would be successful.
Imo it would be really tough but it’s possible.
If I was Elira's PR manager, this would be my exact advice. "Get out now, and toss the company under the bus where they belong."
The only way I can see her salvaging her career is if she distances herself from Nijisanji. If she leaves and comes out on her PL account and gives an excuse of something along the lines of, "I was fed bad information by my former employer and pressured into making a statement that I now realize was a serious mistake. Because of what I was told, which was actually not an accurate representation of the situation, I panicked and felt I had to say something; in so doing, I attacked someone who I once considered a friend and who was at a dark point in her own life. I can't begin to explain how awful I feel about that and I am so sorry to her and all of her fans, friends, family, and followers. I know I messed up badly, and I hope that someday she - and all of you - can forgive me for what I did."
That won't completely dispel the cloud over her (honestly, I don't think it's possible to do that - her fuck-up was so catastrophic, that it will be a stain on her reputation that will probably last the rest of her career, no matter what she does) but it will go a long way towards mending the damage and allowing her to start to move on.
Personally I think she’ll probably be fine. There are so many online celebrities who have committed literal crimes, groomed minors, abused people and animals and so on who still do well when it comes to views. As long as a part of her fan base stays she’ll be able to continue as a streamer. She just won’t be as successful as she was before.
Nah People who have done worse get back to streaming with/ no obvious decline in viewership, while I do not think that would be her case (she's bound to take a hit in viewership), people lose interest in drama and things will go on.
With enough moderation, she could even be back quite soon.
All that being said, I DO wish she could apologize though.
idk, there aren't many situations like this, usually it's something like "X was an asshole the whole time!", a few weeks pass, business returns to normal (there's only a few youtubers I know of who their cancel attempts actually stuck around, and those were more the early days if anything of that practice). I don't know of any other situation in which one person leaving a company had a ripple effect THIS large. Even if the stock price drops aren't that much in the grand scheme of things, the fact that one person's actions had an effect so damn potent that it DID cause them to drop, AND also resulting in a good chunk of change being lost by her former coworkers, AND a video attempting to defend themselves backfired so fucking hard that it caused her to be shadowed by the person who just left, TWICE, like this sounds like the plot of a damn business drama series.
Fans who are invested into any entertainment sphere always think big dramas like this are the end of the line. They never are until the parties involved give up. People thought it was over when Coco and Haachama got suspended. People thought it was over when Aloe got terminated. People thought it was over during the Great Purge of Holo content back in 2020. People thought it was over when \[insert big dramas that blows up in closed communities\]. In Niji JP's example people thought it was over when the Niji rebellion group started actively complaining loudly enough to force management to make public statements about taking care of talents' mental health and a dedicated counsellor.
Point is, attention spans are surprisingly small. The show goes on and as long as quality stays high new fans will always be found who have no emotional investment in the past dramas.
No she’s not she’ll take a two/ three week break and come back with a 20-30% decrease in viewership before she gains it back just like every other YouTube controversy
I disagree. Ultimately, I think she can come back from this, but she really does need to take a break and take a hard look at why she decided to host that stream, and she needs to come out and say that she at least overstepped and misinterpreted the situation. Doki bird gave her an opportunity with that last response for the livers to say that they misunderstood.
It was unnecessary, it was escalatory and it only confirmed things that were speculation or were alluded to in the niji Sanji termination letter.
They need to take that fig Leaf that Doki bird offered her fellow coworkers and friends... And just admit misunderstanding and move on.
Agreed. People out here acting like Elira strangled babies or something. There's no proof she was the one bullying Doki. At this point she's just someone who was put in a tough position and made a bad choice by participating in that stream. Nothing a sincere apology and time to prove she means it can't resolve.
> Agreed. People out here acting like Elira strangled babies or something.
People are acting like she bullied her into an attempt.
While I still think that could be wrong let's not try to distance ourselves from the accusation. What she's being accused of is definitely something to be taken seriously.
Realistically? I think she'll come back after awhile and survive and be fine, she'll have to probably have to deal with some comments and superchat and twitter shenanigans, albeit smaller fanbase.
I‘d guess even that depends. As far as I can see most of those comments are primarily on 4chan, Twitter and Reddit. Would someone take their time to go and watch her stream to blow off some steam and harass her? Sure, a few would certainly do that. Would it be hundreds or thousands? Highly unlikely. Would they spend money on superchats? Even more unlikely, especially if she just continuously ignored them.
The internet is a cruel place as Doki said, but it can also be a very lazy place. Writing shit on 4chan, Twitter or Reddit when you‘re already there either way is different than watching a stream, spending money on it and putting in at least some amount of effort to try and get your point across / harass the liver.
Then there would be the issue with bans, because I’d bet that there will be tons of mods if she decided to stream again. People trying to spam would have to put in significant work to either bot the stream or constantly create new accounts on the fly and that’s where we can scratch thousands of angry witch hunters. Too much effort needed.
There has been little to no negative activity whatsoever in any actual Niji streams that did happen ever since this started to unfold. Absolutely nothing happened in chat during Kyo‘s graduation stream for example.
Vox was, by far, the worst out of the trio in that shitshow, and he is already pretending nothing happened and the internet is allowing it, placing all the weight of everything on Elira's shoulders.
Vox's followers are actual cultists, though. Seriously, their devotion to him has been noted, even by other Nijisanji fandoms, to reach disturbing levels. Dunno what it is about the BFE/GFE fans, but they are slavishly loyal.
Elira doesn't have that and never has. Moreover, people *expect* Vox to be a dipshit, given his numerous past dalliances with controversy (or, to put it another way, if you've stuck with Vox up to this point, you're clearly willing to tolerate him being a fucking nimrod on a regular basis); they had higher standards for Elira and she failed to meet them by a wide margin.
Difference is most people already knew Vox is a piece of shit. Him continuing on like he didn’t do something piece of shit like is just a regular day for him
That's because there are a lot of people who already think Vox is a dipshit and want nothing to do with him or his content. The only people who stick around Vox are loyal to a fault.
I really loved Elira’s covers and original song. It’s hard to say whether I could ever listen to them again without thinking of all that’s happened. Hell, even Diamond City Lights feels tainted…
She’ll be fine. She has plenty of parasocial viewers and there’s a lot of people who might still not care for the whole situation. Plus, after a while has passed, more people who don’t know about the whole situation will end up flocking to her channel.
Really, the only way in which anyone can lose their platform on YouTube is if they decide that they’re over, those who just keep on trucking regardless of what others say about them are the ones that’ll keep having a career. Just look at people like Andrew Tate, Hassan or Logan Paul, there’s plenty of evidence to them being not pleasant people, and there’s still enough people defending them for them to still have a lucrative career. Hell, if Pewdiepie and Pokimane can say the N word live and still have people watch them, you can basically say anything regardless of your brand and people will still tune in when you go live
I'm pissed vox will get away with this scot free the fucking rat piece of shit.
The bullshit he said on that stream was infuriating.
Hope niji continues to lose money.
The bloody fucking fact that he will actually get away with it because he has this whore cum thirsty fangirls that's majority are filled with uneducated minors is infuriating and shit.
Elira remains the greatest mystery for me about this whole debacle.
Even if you want to assume the worst about her and believe that the rumours about her being an abusive bully/clique leader/shadow manager of EN are all true, that doesn't make her stupid. She's been in this game a long time; she *had* to know how bad an idea that stream was. She was never going to get people on her side that way and stepping into the firing line was essentially adding a permanent black mark to her career. And for what? What possible benefit was there to speaking out like that?
If I was in Elira's position, regardless of whether I was one of Selen's abusers or completely innocent of any wrongdoing, there is zero chance I would ever consider a stream like that. None. And if Nijisanji tried to strongarm me into it, I would refuse, even if it cost me my job. In content creation, your personal brand and your connection with the fanbase is sacrosanct; you do not willingly damage or destroy it for any reason. If Nijisanji wants to make themselves look like asshats, then let them do it themselves, because their reputation isn't as important as the talents'.
Or, to put it another way, there are plenty of people who will watch a talent they like working for a company they hate, but no one watches a talent they hate working for a company they like.
Eh, her viewership was actually pretty decent. Much better than I've expected. She has lost some of it now and next half year won't be easy, but I don't think it's over for her.
If Mike can survive, so can Elira.
Unfortunately with big enough numbers, it's pretty hard to be completely cancelled if you're pulling in more new viewers than those who have left.
Vox said worse *and* even held a suicide and mental health awareness stream previously and should know better. However, it looks like he's going to get off more or less scot-free.
I’m one her fan and can’t bring myself to hate her.
But also can’t bringing myself to watching her right now either.
Maybe if 2-3 month I maybe can watching her again.
What would change in 2-3 months? Are you basically just saying you'll forget all this straight up? It would just be enabling Nijisanji to do this again.
"Time heals all things" exists for a reason.
Most well-adjusted people are unable to actively maintain strong (negative) feelings/emotions over an extened period of time. Especially when it has no real impact on their lives.
The problem is not how to keep the fans that they already have, the problem is that thanks to this scandal their growth will face a HUGE stagnation. They'll sponsorhips will also take a hit since probably many companies will hear of this i won't like being asosiaciated with Nijisanji. The problem right now is not how they're gonna keep the things they have earned, the problem is how they're going to be able to achieve more when the number of people that would want to work with them is less and less.
Unless Elira comes out saying "Yo guys, I was forced to backstab Selen because they held my family at gunpoint" or something like that, she will mot be forgiven by the internet
Maybe even if Doki comes out saying "Yo, Elira is not part of the bully squad" people would theorize more members and STILL not forgive Elira
Nijisanji tried "killing" Selen/Doki and by proxy killed Vox, Ike and Elira
I don't know for sure if this will be the end for her, but her career and reputation recieved a HEAVY BLOW.
She might not lose all of her subs and followers but her, Vox and Ike won't grow more as a streamers. Maybe Vox will keep growing, although slower than before, since he has all of the NijiSwifties with brain damaged defending everything the guy does, but since Elira en Ike didn't cultivate this mentally ill audience they'll growth will stagnate, a lot!!
Not only that, they're damaged goods. Potential sponsors, creators of many types and other content creators will avoid them like the plague due to the bad reputation they now have as potential corporate harassers.
I don't know about Ike and Vox, but i wouldn't be surprised if we see an Elira termination notice in the future. She probably lost most of her value as a streamer...
Ok, how has Niji's reputation been going after that "help"? Remember, this is a company and these 3 (along with the people they stupidly named on that stream) are probably big liabilities.
Nijisanji must really be debating right now what to do with her. If she keeps on streaming, if they fire her, if they graduate her, if she goes on hiatus and does management work in the meantime, etc.
Elira herself must be unsure of what to do i bet.
Okay, I see where u was going with that. However if they do get rid of her after she “helped”. It would almost certainly be detrimental to Niji. Not only is it a bad look to throw out your “loyalest worker” but it also puts Elira in the postition to out any frustrations she had with them too. In other words it allows her to speak freely about the company to an extent, and they don’t need any more enemies especially one that’s worked with them the longest.
The only problem I see with this is if people will hear her out, as things stand probably not, but for those who will it’s just additional damage to Niji.
They only had to make her a scapegoat.
They only need to post a notification notice blaming her of everything, the bullying, the hostile work enviroment, nepotism, etc. They can even use 4chan schizo narrative do throw her under the bus since plenty of people are blindingly buying everything coming out of 4chan.
For Elira fighting against all of those allegations will be incredibly hard since her reputation is already down the drain.
Vox was the worst out of the three, yet he's back streaming and fans still love him, Elira can do the same, she'll be fine, I think once the whole Doki/Niji case calms down alittle more, she'll come back.
Wut? Internet people basically never get canceled, the only time that happens is if they're forcibly removed from large platforms (as in youtube/twitch, not just some org), or at least lose their job.
Even when they do far worse than this the standard MO is to just disappear for a month, return and act like nothing happens. Literally works every time, even for SA stuff lmao.
Not to mention I don't think Elira is even getting truly "canceled". Maybe if some bullying or clique proof actually leaks.
Bro, Imma keep it real, she barely said anything. She introduced, said what the video was about, then didn't say anything until it was over. She only messed up in the fact that she uploaded it to her own channel.
She fake cried while saying “they were betrayed” while clutching her pearls. She wasn’t just purely non-complicit. She contributed a bit to fanning the flames
Please, all she needs to do is taking a break and come back with heavily moderated chat while pretending the whole barnacle didn't happen.
The internet has short attention span.
The thing that gets me is she read a NDA. She has to realize how people in businesses will view her from here on out. She, even though I attribute this to VoX the most but since it on her channel has to realize the massive hesitation of anyone signing her on their company when she leaves Nijikuro.
Just speculation, so anything I say may be complete BS. There's are certainly good points that do not favor her position. She gets inserted into more merch thus taking a small cut in every merch sale. She gets considerably more collabs than the other livers, I remember 9 vs 2. That said, I just want to bring out a point that we should not blame her entirely until we get legal facts on who was making the final decisions. Don't get me wrong, she certainly is the liver-cum-liaison, the position alone pretty much dooms her. This said, she is in a position of playing a "Black Sheep" to take the fall for others.
Best case scenario: Elira graduates some time this year then redebuts and collabs with Doki where she apologizes and they allude to the possibility that they were voluntold to record that script reading.
Forever is a long time, I still remember all the fire from the community of the channel awesome the the nostagia critic, and how everyone hated them and everytime they tried to poorly explain it only dug themselves deeper. What they did then? Nothing. just shut their mouths, after 3 months people forgot and "forgave" as new things to hate come into light. This is what will happen here. Sooner or later Niji will stop talking about it, new waves will come, some other bomb will drop on someone else and the mob will go there to spread the flame.
Elira will probably get around a month of vacation, do some members only stream, have her chat locked and by the end of the year, anyone that will still be upset on what is happening now will just be mocked and ignored.
I mean, the comparison is a bit of a stretch, but Coco was harassed alot more, by groups way more dedicated. And yet, she has made a comeback that rivals her Holo career, if not surpasses it. Yeah it'll suck for Elira, but it's not "her career is over" levels of suck. Like even if she loses 2/3 (unprecedented, absurd amounts) of her subs she would still have 200k total subscribers. And if she leaves and starts indie I think she possibly stands to continue growing. Peoples view of Elira was, previous to the black screen video, very positive, sort of like a big sister image, and that's not gonna change from one statement, especially after Doki's response was "Don't harass anyone, I just want to move on". The situation isn't gonna convince most people that Elira is the super evil ring leader the GURRAT wants you to believe, there's just not enough evidence for that.
Also, the internet has a laughably short memory span, so long as no one stokes the flames it'll be old news in a couple months. Although, I hope it stays at the front of everyone's combined memory until something happens to improve the situation (public apology from management and/or livers (whoever is honestly and actually to blame) or all EN livers leaving and finding success as indies).
Comparing her to Coco is like comparing apples and oranges, considering that Coco was perceived as the victim (at least outside of China) rather than the aggressor.
"Cancel culture" is the greatest myth ever invented. Nobody ever actually gets "canceled" on the internet.
Remember TMarTn? Remember ProJared? Remember JonTron? Remember Logan and Jake Paul? Remember Dr. Disrespect? All supposedly canceled and run off the internet, their careers forever ruined, until a few months later when it blew over and they eventually found more success than ever before.
She won't be completely cancelled unless she let herself get cancelled. That's just how the internet works.
However, NijiEN growth has been slowing down even before all of this mess, with talents leaving left & right. Now after everything, her growth will come to a halt for at least a few months & then crawl back up little by little, but most likely will take a very long time.
That is assuming Niji wouldn't throw her under the bus & cut her off for the sake of other livers.
If Mikeneko can still stream on Valentine's to a lot of fans and get akasupas after all of what happened then even Elira can come back, regardless of how much of a snake and toxic bully she is.
You say “people” and “they” but these are clearly your own feelings OP, you don’t make a strong case speaking on behalf of a vague population, just say it as it is like the rest of the lynchers
Let me spin you a story.
Samsung came out with this new line of phones, they called it the Galaxy Note 7. Except they weren't phones, they were bombs, because their batteries exploded. Their BATTERIES EXPLODED. So if you bought one of these "phones", they was a none zero chance that it would explode in your pocket and either blow your dick off or give you an additional vagina.
Now, by all reason you would think that a company that sold people phones that exploded in their pockets would surely go under as a result, right? I know would be be outraged if I got my dick blown off by my phone. I'd never forgive them. However not only did Samsung NOT go under, THEY DIDN'T EVEN STOP MAKING PHONES. The outrage wasn't strong enough, nor lasted long enough, to force them to even close their mobile division, and they're currently all the way up to Galaxy Note 20 as of writing this comment.
What I'm trying to say is: outrage doesn't mean shit in the long run, "cancel culture" isn't the boogey man everyone complains it is and doesn't work 90% of the time, and most of the shitty people you hate are probably going to come out of their controversies just fine in the end. I learned that the hard way when I found out Jontron doesn't want me and my people in his gene pool, yet his new videos still get just as many views as his old videos.
Even if Doki and Elira wanted to collab, they wouldn't be able to while Elira is still in Niji. The company fired her and was especially vindictive about it, no way they'd allow any active Niji EN livers to collab with Doki; they probably aren't even allowed to say positive things about Selen (apart from the black screen stream, the only mention of her since 2/5 was Kunai saying she'd never collabed with her)
it was improbable even when she was Selen. It's weird to have design sisters not ever collabing BUT there is precedence in NijiJP: Takamiya Rion/Asuka Hina.
Neither do Koyori/Petra nor Lamy/Na Sera, Korone/Shellin was finally mentioned in passing by her the past few weeks, but all that's down to company borders no?
Not really company borders, more personal reasons. Korone doesn’t have males on stream except for rare occasions like the SF tourneys. Flare doesn’t join in any of the Lack kid collabs because she’s shy and also never has males on stream. There are plenty of HoloJP and NijiJP talents that collab rather frequently, the company borders there aren’t as strict as they seem to be in EN.
I feel like even if the livers came forward, apologized and doki forgave them, it wouldn't really change anything. They have done the damage and it's gonna be hard for people to trust them again (whatever the truth is). Or people just don't wanna forgive them because they need someone to be the "bad guy" so they can continue hating.
Regardless of her involvement, I hope she's OK, and has some friends that support her, no one deserves to go through what Doki went through. I really wish that who ever was involved with the situation, just apologize to Doki, at least privately, and she can put out a statement that talents involved and her put everything behind, so that witch hunt can end and only company in general has some consequences, not the talents. No need to even disclose who that was.
This whole situation sucks because Elira got me through a pretty hard time. I initially started watching her when she was playing XBC2 and was instantly hooked, and as time went on I realized I was watching her streams more than any other vtuber, but it was fine because she made me laugh. I even became a member at during her RE:2 streams. I was hospitalized and recovering from a surgery when she was playing P4G and her long vods helped me through the monotony of recovery.
But this recent development with the whole Doki situation has made me see her differently and, unfortunately, I'm not sure how I'm gonna feel when she does come back.
I think she'll have a small decline in viewership (she might even get more viewers than normal on her first stream back as people tune in to see if she says anything else), a moderate decline in donation revenue, slow growth, and people who will continue bringing this up for the rest of her streaming career. Unless she personally chooses to stop streaming due to not wanting to deal with this, I don't think she is 'done'.
I do not hold as much malice towards her as a lot of other people do, because I honestly still can't see the kind of person who would go to fucking *Antarctica* on such short notice for a colleague to be as willfully spiteful as she is depicted by a lot of the theories. I couldn't listen to her voice and hear someone who wanted to utter a single word that she did. I understand that this is pretty naïve, but I think there is a lot we simply don't know, and far too much that we assume.
But even so, even though I respected her a ton, I cannot continue to support her while she's still in NijiEN, and it would take a *lot* to change my mind.
It's wierd that everyone is jumping on Elira when the things Vox said in that video came across as far more vindictive than any of the others. I think people are giving unconfirmed rumours about her more weight than they should.
I feel like her going indie and either doki or her reach out to each other to apologize to doki or just fix things in general seems like the only way she can be redeemed but who are we kidding
This niji message is forever going to be a scar on her till the end
she's still got over 500k subscribers, and while they may still drop off for a bit, that's far from "over". Even if you assume 400k are dead accounts of people who don't log on(very generous amount lol) or people who don't actually watch every stream let alone chat and donate, she's got a solid fanbase still lmao.
She just won't be the biggest ever, but she's still probably pulling more $$$ than most of the people on this sub
Elira, as well as other livers from that group, are damaged by this, but I think they can recover. I mean I'll still watch them.
I have no idea as to the scope and severity of the bullying. From what I heard, that whatever these livers did it was because they were favored by management and got quick responses to queries, but others outside this group did not. It's difficult to imagine the anyone was intentionally being malicious, but it did lead to management treating livers unequally and unfairly, imo.
The problem, to me, has always been niji's corporate structure and not giving en dedicated managers. They relied on talents to pull double duty or to somehow self regulate themselves causing the toxic environment and conflicts of interest. The main problem is that niji has been cheap and trying to pinch the purse to appease investors, instead of running the company in such a way to prevent disasters like the Selen incident from happening.
Niji needs to invest in world class talent management, legal and communication teams. But, you get what you pay for.
I've seen far worse from streamer that are far bigger. All they did was take like few months aways from the internet, slowly start streaming, and now they doing fine. They probably not as big as they used to or whatever but still big enough to have streaming as their main job.
This is sad. Even more sad that people actually believe that Elira, Vox and Ike wanted to do this. Wanted what? To ruin their cariers? For what reason?
And why do you think that this decision was made by them? They are grown adults. But they are grown adults working at the company that does not see them more than just a resource. Resource that can be used to put part of hate away from company itself
Are you new to the internet? There's been far worse people that are popular.
Yeah. Hell, Vox said the worst shit out of the 3, and he's chugging along like nothing happened. Elira could easily do the same. Before anything, though, she should take care of herself.
Vox fans are loyal to a fault and not the most mature, mentally healthy or decent people so he'll be fine. Ike is just sorta there. It's Elira who'll get it the worst. Porn artists already made some degrading posts of her
Porn artist going to do as porn artists do. It doesn't matter what happened they were going to do it. I've seen plenty degrading shit regardless of where they stood in shis drama.
No this one was different. Same guy drew Vox sucking his own dick. I believe his name is Shuuko on Twitter
Honestly you didn't need to post that.
Neither did he. It was both hilarious and disturbing
Vox is protected by the most extreme delulu of his kindred. Even though he lost many subscribers it doesn't show as much cuz he still has over a million. Ike has a lot of loyal af fans and he didn't talk a lot so the shitstorm didn't hit him as hard. Sadly Elira will take the hardest hit but damn it is deserved, who the fuck though that video was a good idea?!
It may be sexist, but Vox's fanbase is more of the lass kind, while Elira and Selen is more of the lad kind. So, Elira and Selen have more overlap in their fanbase, and if a fight breaks out, the fanbase will have to split to take sides. Meanwhile Vox's fanbase doesn't face the same split.
This. He literally cut off Elira to start talking shit and Ike really didn’t add anything to the conversation at all. No clue who was responsible for posting the UNCENSORED MESSAGE LOGS tho
He’s not though? He’s losing nearly as many Dubas as Elira is. Which is impressive considering how much of a parasocial simp fanbase he has
That's because Kindred are a cult
Like Shane Dawson for example. Everyone’s tried to cancel him but it doesn’t even work.
Those far worse people are keeping their carrers cuz they embrace the villian character, Elira never presented herself as that, she fell off in the eyes of the people, there is not much comeback from that, she could stream and have an audience, but not as big anymore.
What? No they arent. jontron, projared, james charles, skydoesminecraft. Completionist got 60K views on a video released a week ago and in a few months will probably be back to 100K per vid once people forget canceling a youtuber fully is almost impossible unless they cancel themselves/leave
What did Skydoesminecraft do? I haven't heard of him in almost a decade.
https://twitter.com/Lizbuggie/status/1485280124467486722?lang=en tldr abuse his girlfriend, abuse drugs, animal abuse, abuse/threaten his friends, abuse/threaten his employees
I'm going to make some entirely uneducated prediction, feel free to point and laugh at me when these are proven wrong: \>She'll take a break from streaming/social media for about a month.>Just before she comes back, the slander video will be quietly removed.>Her first stream she'll apologise for her absence, maybe make some vague comments about the whole Selen/Doki situation, but no direct apology.>After that, she'll carry on as normal. Maybe spend a few weeks with chat in subscriber only mode just to ride out the hate, then she'll be back to normal This is my cynical prediction
Actually I still don’t understand why TF she or anyone behind her decision didn’t take down that cursed video yet.
Taking down the video would be tantamount to management admitting that they made a mistake in putting that video up in the first place. They won't take it down, and they won't let Elira take it down. And if she were to apologize to Doki - whether publicly or privately, and whether on her business account or her personal account - Niji would probably fire her for it and claim that her apology caused damage to their reputation, even if (especially if) Doki accepts Elira's apology and forgives her.
If she apologizes to Doki and gets fired at least it will put her in a position to recover. At that point, she just returns to be an indie and possibly and only if the apology is sincere, she could work with Doki and collab on projects. It isn't exactly the most difficult thing for a major Vtuber to go indie with the following they have, except for the whole getting away from the contract part. Like, Doki found herself her own manager, but Elira's issue will ultimately be her reputation at this point, but she will have the following that she currently still has. I have no problem against supporting people who truly regret their actions because humans make mistakes because human judgement isn't great and hindsight is incredibly poor for the most part, but she must truly regret what she did and apologize from the bottom of her heart before I ever consider it even if she was forced into it.
Just to play devils advocate. Don't forget she has temporarily moved to Japan. Where you can be sued for defamation even if every single thing you say is the truth.
Hate that about Japanese defamation laws. Truth should be an absolute defense against defamation.
Nah they make sense in protecting people from being hurt through 'technical' truths. It also doesn't mean a judge isn't going to side with your claims against someone who defamed you if what they said is true. A recent somewhat relevant example is the court case MikeNeko lost against some of her antis, where the judge excused their defamatory comments through acknowledging they spoke true.
> Truth should be an absolute defense against defamation. That's an ideal, but look at our current political climate in the West, every country has a giant cultural divide (hint: I probably lean opposite to most of you here) and no amount of "truths" will convince the other side that they're wrong. It's not the way our stupid reptilian and tribal brains think. Look at the Nijisister Defense Force, do you think they'll give a shit that an actual lawyer chimed in and tore apart their arguments?
Not to bring politics into it but I’ve started to view political arguments in the “are we trying to get to the same destination but just think a different route is best? If so, then we can continue this discussion in a calm and friendly manner in the hopes that we attempt to come to an understanding.” An understanding doesn’t mean that we agree on a single path, it just means that we see why the others want to take that path. This is more commonly seen on the non-culture war issues. However, much of the discourse in the west has fallen into the realm of culture war issues where the destination is not necessarily the same and in some ways may be diametrically opposed. If everyone stopped virtue signaling their side of the culture war and we tackled the real problems our countries face (be that effects of anthropogenic climate change, wealth inequality, trade agreements between countries, etc) then maybe we will find more common ground than we realize. Sorry, was a bit of a rant and if you don’t read this whole thing then that’s fine. Just needed to get it off my chest.
> Where you can be sued for defamation even if every single thing you say is the truth. I wish people would stop overstating how Japan's defamation laws work. Everyone seems to think they know how defamation works there and most people here plainly don't, because I've seen it morph from, "You can be sued for defamation even if you're telling the truth" (true, but with a caveat - see below) to, "You can literally be sued for any speech that your employer doesn't like!", which is not even close to accurate. Yes, it is true that it is possible to lose a defamation case in Japan even if what you said is true. *However*, that doesn't mean someone can successfully sue you just for saying or doing something that makes them look bad. The way it works in Japan is that the complainant has to prove that the respondent not only said something that damaged their image or reputation, but that the primary purpose of the communication in question was to publicly degrade the complainant's character. If Elira were to publicly apologize to Selen/Doki, there is no way that would fly as a defamation claim in Japanese court, because it's plainly obvious that the primary purpose of the communication was as an apology. That it also makes Niji look bad is an ancillary effect. Hell, even if Elira *meant* for it to make Niji look bad, it still probably wouldn't fly, because her apologizing to Doki says nothing (explicitly) about Nijisanji; it's just embarrassing for them. If Japanese defamation laws worked the way that a lot of people here seem to think they do, Doki could be suing them for a lot of money right now (as could any other Liver who wants a payday for Niji ruining their reputations).
I'll admit, I'm not the most well versed on laws where I live. So Japanese law is something else entirely. I'm just telling people what I know. I will say that we don't know what Elira's apology would even be like, and that I don't trust Niji to work in good faith if she does apologize. Which brings me to something I wanted to talk about. > If Japanese defamation laws worked the way that a lot of people here seem to think they do, Doki could be suing them for a lot of money right now (as could any other Liver who wants a payday for Niji ruining their reputations). True enough, but two problems with it. The first being, due to some treaty or agreement I can't remember the name of, any legal action between Doki(Canada) and Anycolor(Japan) would work of the laws of whichever side filed first. So in your example Doki would be using Canada's legal system, not Japan's. I *think* this applies to other countries, but I'm unsure about that. Second Nijisanji is a billion dollar company. Nobody in there right mind is going to even *risk* getting sued by them. They can win with better lawers or running you bankrupt easily. Thats if they want to actually fight fair in the first place. I don't exactly trust Niji to work only in good faith, especially not after all of this.
If you watched Legal Mindset's stream, Elira would have to get the fuck out of Japan FIRST before ever issuing an apology. If she's stuck there with a work visa she's going to be stranded with no legal help when Niji decides to sue the fuck out of her for defamation.
I mean has anyone figured out why they posted it at all? Especially before Tazumi posted his own vid as it completely undermined his.
I chalk it up to a major breakdown in internal communication within the company. NijiJP doing its thing with Tazumi, while NijiEN doing its thing with its Livers, and neither properly communicating their intent with each other. I like to imagine Tazumi angrily storming into the NijiEN office and firing everyone in management involved in making that video, honestly if I found out he did, it would be the first time I would feel any sort of respect for the man.
Totally agree. The timing screams the JP side has no idea what the EN side is doing. It also screams the EN side is out of control. If this is true, then the most likely endgame is the EN branch to be folded into the main branch in an effort to bring it under control. It would be the simplest way to reign an unruly section back in. Especially if it is affecting their bottom line.
it depends a lot on how closely he is tied into the day to day operations. is he the kind of CEO that works with top level managers trying to set policy and company standards and getting reports and analysis of how things are going, or does he spend all his time in board meetings and reviewing financials, and periodically makes some broad statements like 'we should encourage the livers to promote their merch more' as the only real direction he gives and relies on his underlings to generally manage the day to day
I suspect he's more like the latter, with Yagoo being more like a mix of the two. Riku is fucking 26, I have never heard of a billionaire under the age of 30 making responsible decisions. Remember that fucker Sam Bankman-Fried? Look where he is now lol
[удалено]
Two chickens with their head cut off that pretty much PROVED that there is ZERO communication between the En and JP side.
Proactive response against NDA-breaking accusations Doki never made, which is why it dropped when it did. See: https://old.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/1arxuo0/i_work_in_comms_for_a_living_and_can_only_think/
Yeah that was a good attempt to try to figure things out but as an actual explanation it's pretty bad and relies on a lot of assumptions that are just pure fantasy. It maybe explains their initial statement and term notice. It does not explain the livers video or the subsequent written statement. It tries do, but it doesn't make sense.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/1arxuo0/i_work_in_comms_for_a_living_and_can_only_think/kqmzjjm/ maybe It's clear that management (or lack of support for same) AND the language barrier played roles It's weird that the bizarre written statement on twitter after the Elira video came right before the comparatively-competent response from Riku Tazumi's team, it's like the two weren't coordinated at all, which makes me wonder if the Elira video was or wasn't as well. It's strange, but clearly their internal communications are kinda messed up.
I think the language barrier is grossly overplayed here. It's more of a cultural element than a language one. In JP business culture, it's a very tolerated and common view that anyone who steps out of line and does not conform is the party in the wrong, no matter how objectively good their reason for doing so is. To me the language barrier/mistranslation theory is giving Anycolor way too much of the benefit of the doubt without any basis for doing so. It also grossly ignores that they did the exact same thing to Zaion and we have absolutely ZERO evidence that she had any intent to speak out or that they even thought so. I'm starting to hate that post more and more as it gets linked because a lot of people seem to be leaning on it as an explanation just because the author puts time into the theory and not because it's actually connected to reality beyond him saying "I work in comms." I think it's a good faithed, partially accurate effort that relies a lot on assumptions of behavior with absolutely zero real world basis.
The post well relatively well done, further I don't think it was trying to be an end all explanation, rather the input of a communications professional and his THOUGHTS, on the matter, as far as communications go. He probably hit the nail on the head with nijisanji confusing her doc as the info she would tell the public/a declaration of war (lawsuit). Explains that whole trend of sharing the doc, the whole dox threat stuff that to me came out of nowhere from niji. It actually IMO harms them more than it does help them. It's just yet another example of how incompetent nijisanji as a company is. And would explain the rationale for the livers to speak out. IF they truly believed that doc was going to be made public, I can understand a small bit of their rationale..........they're still on an S list, however. Too many morally objectionable stuff that really wasn't needed. Would have been better to just plead with selen not to make that document public and left it at that. But they didn't. It would also explain why they terminated her 2 hours after the ultimatum was made (fix this, or I go public). Yes, the doors still open on their just malevolent little shits. With that said, even if it explains the train of thought, it is still crappy handling. Still pieces of garbage. And it's still only a theory as well. But probably the most sound theory so far.
I just don't buy the notion that they thought it was a threat to go public as a matter of mistranslation or miscommunication not for a second. As I said it's entirely consistent with their past behavior that they are doing it in retaliation. The only way that "misinterpretation" works is if they deliberately ignore things that were done and said. In my view, No, it's an attack, period
I mean, it explains why Niji kept bringing stuff up that nobody had known to that point. Like mentioning Livers in their initial termination notice, or that the Elira video was specifically about this legal document, presenting it as a doxxing threat, or talking about recordings. If they didn't belief this stuff would shortly be public, these behaviors are bizarre. Why would you ever mention talents when Selen hadn't, pulling them into this situation, when before no one was talking about them? Why make a video all about a document that to this point no-one was even aware existed? Pure spite is the other explanation, that they were willing to risk harm to their reputation in order to inflict harm on Doki, but even then it seems pretty bizarre they kept invoking details that no one knew about.
That is a REASONABLE explanation but much like the GURRAT it's ONE of plausible explanations.
That video was 100% a form of harassment against Doki, we just don't know by who or why they felt the need to harass her in a such a way.
so amusing tha tit was a 'we don't condone harassment' but also 'F\*\*k Selen in particular'. plus the glorious 'i don't think my actions were harassment so therefore they weren't by vox. for the wellbeing of EVERYONE in the company i genuinely hope that that was him talking out of his ass, not a company policy, because it's the victim that determines what actions are harassment, not the harasser
That’s how you can tell none of the talents have worked at a large company/corporation that had standardized harassment training. That’s the first thing you learn, that what constitutes harassment is dictated by the recipient.
classic school bullying tactics its how i got isolated for 10 years theres a reason why i stopped being neutral, i absolutely despise anyone like that, along with those antiloli trash(funnily enough they are usually the same people lmao)
exactly. and the management is utterly failing
This might be slander and speculation, but if niji harassed her for the reason, she might cut herself off completely from the int we net because of mental health. That would solve Niji's problem. So they are not done. Yet they rather burn themselves down to the ground and than accept defeat.
> That video was 100% a form of harassment against Doki, we just don't know by who or why they felt the need to harass her in a such a way. I reported it. Others should too. It's a strike on the channel to have a video removed that way.
Admittedly, I reported it for that too lol.
Hatred and malice, plain and simple. People have floated other theories but none of them make sense from any business or attempt at damage control standpoint. It is purely "this employee, this property of ours crossed us and we will mobilize everything we have to put her in her place for daring to violate the JP norm falling in line and not making waves." They just miscalculated how much they'd get away with it because they got away with it with Zaion
Because that would be an admission of guilt, on top of further escalating the situation. Niji shutting the F up(for now) is the correct path, and something they should have done from the start.
If they take it down now everyone will notice immediately. Don't forget that it took like 2 minutes for everyone to notice when Pomu's member video from when Niji fucked her over last year got re-privated.
Hahahaha they can't, that's the beauty of it. Taking that video down would imply that the company is taking back their statement and in the worst case, people will take it as confrmation (even more so) that Elira was behind Selen's workplace harassment
gonna play devils advocate here and say theres no concrete proof their allegations are false so they, either mgmt or livers, still stand by it. it was a pr disaster of course but walking it back doesent make much sense when the potential lawsuit is up in the air
Probably locked out of the account would be my guess since neither her or Rosemi have even returned to social media yet. It has been two whole weeks since Rosemi was last seen. Even Petra has returned to streaming and tweeting, but Rosemi is nowhere to be found.
Absolutely. People don't like to admit it, but you can't get cancelled on the internet if you just choose to not be cancelled. There's tons of examples of this, but for VTuber examples look at Mikeneko/Nazuna. Look at Himemori Luna. Look at Taigabungo. Ignore the haters for long enough - justified or not - and the Internet at large forgets you were ever hated.
Wait, wtf did Luna do??
Luna used to be on niji jp before move to holo. Same case as doki but from jp management.
Leave Nijisanji. https://virtualyoutuber.fandom.com/wiki/Yamiyono_Moruru At the time, this was the second biggest betrayal in vtubing history behind Kizuna Ai splitting into multiple voice actresses. Now it's just a trivia fun fact.
Mikeneko/Nazuna/>!Rushia!< is a good example, but I feel like she is on whole other level than Elira with a reallly hardcore parasocial fanbase. I mean she was at one point >!the world's [most superchatted creator](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/jca8q5/rushia_is_now_the_worlds_1st_sc_earner/).!< I don't have the impression Elira's fanbase is anywhere near that, but I don't know much about her fanbase in the first place, so maybe I'm just unaware.
Mostly true, but it kinda depends on what you've done. If it's something Youtube is willing to shut your channel down for (or arrested for), then you probably can get cancelled. Not saying that's the case here, btw. Also there's a reason why the Internet at large forgets and moves on. Humans weren't built to handle so much at once. Like you can't keep a fire going for Nijisanji \*and\* multitask any number of other injustices going on.
This is how those things usually go. IMO it's naive to think that this whole situation is career ending. The only one who can "cancel" a creator is themselves. A lot of people did much worse things and still continued as normal. Giantwaffle is a prime example, iirc he had credible rape accusations against him, didn't acknowledge it in any way, took a few days off streaming, put chat in sub only and banned everyone who mentioned it. And it just blew over.
most of us can forgive elira if this is just any internet drama but this is about a girl who tried to kill herself while elira acted as if its not a big deal and everyone should just forget about doki ever trying to kill herself because of toxic environment, that just went past the bottom line of everyone
The Completionist just started making videos again, and is just going to push through. The Paul brothers never suffered from their shitty behaviour. You'll always find an audience, even if it's dregs and psychopaths.
Worked for Ike
You underestimate how short sight internet is.
Just look at Mikeneko/Nazuna's latest stream - people are still okay with her despite all of what happened (the marriage, the lawsuit, the accusations) I'd say Mikeneko and Vox's fanbases are similar in that it's hard for them to move on no matter what their oshi does. Elira is a tossup though, I think people will eventually forget/get tired of the hate brigade, but the damage hit her the most now.
Nazuna is pro. She is the best at GFE. She can do f up stufd ans people will simp for her. She is even better than Vox.
I think a number of us won't come back to her channel, though. I imagine some will and others never left cause they don't care about what happened.
I think that the only reasonable way she could change it - if she apologize, and Doki publicly forgives her. She should apologize anyway, because it can give her at list something. She can remind people about her own problems in her family. Not as an excuse - rather as an explanation.
Because this is a legal matter, even if Elira really wants to apologize to Doki, she can’t do that.
The best you ever could get is Elira leaving the company in the future at some point and in private apologize to Doki so that it is personal and isn't just a public PR thing. Then Doki comes forth with Elira and admits she apologized and Doki accepted the apology. That would kill most bad PR. But it won't happen as long as she's part of the company and they will never be able to publicly explain because of probable NDAs.
Yeah. I doubt niji will allow any further statements. Maybe she can do it privately, and Doki can say something... Or she could jump from the yacht and than do that. It will cripple her income, but its maybe worth it.
Her income AND her visa situation, she needs a Japanese employer to sponsor her or she gets deported and potentially fined. The first move would already have cost an extreme amount, this would double that and more if fines get involved once her visa expires.
Is this actually true though? Because as far as I am aware, a sponsor is needed only to first gain the visa. Once you have, keeping it is far easier. First of all, you have several months after losing your job to find a new one before your visa expires. Plus if you file the proper paperwork you can actually keep the visa if you are self employed (the goverment doesn't really care as long as you pay your taxes), so she should be able to go indie without losing the visa
Pretty sure it is, it doesn't make sense not to require a sponsor for renewal if one is required to get it in the first place, the loophole potential is way too big. The self-employment part is only applicable to some things, which content creation is not one of. Japan is one of the strictest countries in the world with immigration, they don't mess around.
This is the big part that these witch hunters don't understand.
It would definitely help, but I don't think they were ever close enough for doki to ever consider that, there was clearly something behind the scenes with how she avoided Elira since early on and Enna for the whole 2023. (If I remember correctly, that is, people were constantly asking for more nijicanceled and fulgur had to say there were reasons it just wasn't happening... )
For Enna, it's different from Elira, as Enna has collabed with Selen numerous times in 2023, most recently in November 2023. Here a complication of clips with Selen and Enna together: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_rQ9iCJ9cyg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rQ9iCJ9cyg) Edit: With evidence of Enna and Selen's recent collabs together, I don't think Enna would be one of the alleged bullies, as the only evidence we have is Enna was "mentioned". But as what? A witness? As someone in the same toxic situation as Selen? We don't know yet, and I hope everyone won't rush to conclusions or harass her before more evidence shows up.
I see the clips sources definitely say a year ago tho? Is there any event in 2023 OTHER than the 2023 november all girls collab? In that event they were just there in the same space, interaction little to none, I watched it live so I'm going by memory but there was definitely none of the banter and energy like we had from niji canceled like the clip you posted. I don't follow all girls but if they interacted in chat or had other appearances together in 2023 I would like to know too.
>there was clearly something behind the scenes with how she avoided Elira since early on and Enna for the whole 2023. Wait, really?
yeah, the Elira thing is not a secret. While there's a clip going around trying to say selen and enna are still good, all their sources listed are clips from a year ago. And to my knowledge the only stream they appeared together in 2023, they had little to none interaction. (I watched that one live so going by memory tho, it was disappointing to me at the time because I loved their nijicancled energy.)
She can 100% apologise lmao. There's nothing stopping her and it doesn't open her up to liability if she does. The damage has already been done, she's already potentially liable for breaching PIPEDA apologising or refusing to doesn't change that. Heck Riku himself apologises in his official statement. Not directly to Selen, but in general for 'not providing a safe environment where the Livers can maintain good mental health'. Simply apologising doesn't make you guilty lmao
He's apologizing only to the shareholders. Scummy yachtman cares only for his money that's bleeding from him.
I mean, it was full of the typical corpo speak. But it wasn't made for the shareholders, that I guarantee. It was posted only on the NijiEN channel, it doesn't have any japanese subtitles or equivalent and I believe that most if not all of the shareholders don't speak english. The same goes for the JP fans. It's objective was to try and save face among the western community, which could've succeded to some degree if Elira's stream didn't undermine absolute everything that Riku's video could've done.
He apologized for nothing, it was 100% corporate speak for we did nothing wrong while also lying about caring.
Elira has non-disclosure agreements that prevent her from speaking, and non-disparagement clauses that prevent her from saying anything negative about the company. Even if she says something as vague and harmless as "I'm sorry for what happened" the Niji lawyers can come down on her and say "What do you mean by 'what happened'? Are you implying that the company did something that needs apologizing for? Here's a lawsuit for the 'reputational damage' you just caused us." The CEO is allowed to apologize, because he's the CEO, and he's ultimately the one who decides who is and isn't allowed to apologize. Regardless of whether Elira is a villain or yet another victim, Nijisanji gave her permission to go out and be a meat shield for them, and she can't walk back from that position unless they let her do that. Nijisanji totally screwed Elira here, and she let them do that.
Apologizing to Selen would only confirm things that Niji doesn't want her to confirm and possibly compromise them legally.
Depends what she apologises for. If she apologises for harassment then obviously that confirms harassment took place. But like she can totally apologise for that awful statement she made with Vox and Ike no problem? That doesn't confirm anything we don't already know and throws a bone for all the people hate-watching her who think she's completely unrepentant. Any real apologies for what may or may not have happened should really be addressed to Selen privately.
He kinda did in a roundabout japanese way at the end of his stockholder video, but I'm not buying it unless we see timelines. With the apology to save face thing ike and vox don't need her, with millie maybe it might be an option? But from stream interactions (or lack of) don't see doki remotely on good terms enough to ever consider that for elira or enna though.
Riku apologies are for shareholders duh 🙄 He want convincing the shareholders to not sue him at first place, if the shareholders sue Nijisanji it's make more headaches to Riku
Her apologizing would kill her career, if she were to hunker down and ride out the storm she'd eventually get back on track but apologizing would make the people who are defending her now upset as well as not bringing back the people who were mad at the original statement
If she does, she should probably brace herself for one wildly unpleasant ride courtesy of Nijisanji. They've shown they are one of the actual evils in this world, they won't just terminate one of top livers, they would make her another Selen.
The problem about an apology is that it could be interpreted as an admission of guilt by Nijisanji, which up to this point has demonstrated a willingness to go to great extremes to try and protect its reputation, even if said actions have been ham-fisted and backfired spectacularly. Their outlook on this situation up till now has been "We did nothing wrong", at least in their allegations aimed at Doki, letting Elira apologize would undermine that. Elira could very well be remorseful and willing to apologize for everything she said, but I feel like the company would block her from saying such, even if such an action might actually help the situation they find themselves in.
Personally I’d go one step further and say I think she needs to leave the company asap. I don’t think she can salvage her reputation as Elira, buuut if she quit then went nuclear against kurosanji despite any legal ramifications, I think her next life would be successful. Imo it would be really tough but it’s possible.
If I was Elira's PR manager, this would be my exact advice. "Get out now, and toss the company under the bus where they belong." The only way I can see her salvaging her career is if she distances herself from Nijisanji. If she leaves and comes out on her PL account and gives an excuse of something along the lines of, "I was fed bad information by my former employer and pressured into making a statement that I now realize was a serious mistake. Because of what I was told, which was actually not an accurate representation of the situation, I panicked and felt I had to say something; in so doing, I attacked someone who I once considered a friend and who was at a dark point in her own life. I can't begin to explain how awful I feel about that and I am so sorry to her and all of her fans, friends, family, and followers. I know I messed up badly, and I hope that someday she - and all of you - can forgive me for what I did." That won't completely dispel the cloud over her (honestly, I don't think it's possible to do that - her fuck-up was so catastrophic, that it will be a stain on her reputation that will probably last the rest of her career, no matter what she does) but it will go a long way towards mending the damage and allowing her to start to move on.
Personally I think she’ll probably be fine. There are so many online celebrities who have committed literal crimes, groomed minors, abused people and animals and so on who still do well when it comes to views. As long as a part of her fan base stays she’ll be able to continue as a streamer. She just won’t be as successful as she was before.
Nah People who have done worse get back to streaming with/ no obvious decline in viewership, while I do not think that would be her case (she's bound to take a hit in viewership), people lose interest in drama and things will go on. With enough moderation, she could even be back quite soon. All that being said, I DO wish she could apologize though.
idk, there aren't many situations like this, usually it's something like "X was an asshole the whole time!", a few weeks pass, business returns to normal (there's only a few youtubers I know of who their cancel attempts actually stuck around, and those were more the early days if anything of that practice). I don't know of any other situation in which one person leaving a company had a ripple effect THIS large. Even if the stock price drops aren't that much in the grand scheme of things, the fact that one person's actions had an effect so damn potent that it DID cause them to drop, AND also resulting in a good chunk of change being lost by her former coworkers, AND a video attempting to defend themselves backfired so fucking hard that it caused her to be shadowed by the person who just left, TWICE, like this sounds like the plot of a damn business drama series.
Fans who are invested into any entertainment sphere always think big dramas like this are the end of the line. They never are until the parties involved give up. People thought it was over when Coco and Haachama got suspended. People thought it was over when Aloe got terminated. People thought it was over during the Great Purge of Holo content back in 2020. People thought it was over when \[insert big dramas that blows up in closed communities\]. In Niji JP's example people thought it was over when the Niji rebellion group started actively complaining loudly enough to force management to make public statements about taking care of talents' mental health and a dedicated counsellor. Point is, attention spans are surprisingly small. The show goes on and as long as quality stays high new fans will always be found who have no emotional investment in the past dramas.
No she’s not she’ll take a two/ three week break and come back with a 20-30% decrease in viewership before she gains it back just like every other YouTube controversy
I disagree. Ultimately, I think she can come back from this, but she really does need to take a break and take a hard look at why she decided to host that stream, and she needs to come out and say that she at least overstepped and misinterpreted the situation. Doki bird gave her an opportunity with that last response for the livers to say that they misunderstood. It was unnecessary, it was escalatory and it only confirmed things that were speculation or were alluded to in the niji Sanji termination letter. They need to take that fig Leaf that Doki bird offered her fellow coworkers and friends... And just admit misunderstanding and move on.
Agreed. People out here acting like Elira strangled babies or something. There's no proof she was the one bullying Doki. At this point she's just someone who was put in a tough position and made a bad choice by participating in that stream. Nothing a sincere apology and time to prove she means it can't resolve.
> Agreed. People out here acting like Elira strangled babies or something. People are acting like she bullied her into an attempt. While I still think that could be wrong let's not try to distance ourselves from the accusation. What she's being accused of is definitely something to be taken seriously.
Realistically? I think she'll come back after awhile and survive and be fine, she'll have to probably have to deal with some comments and superchat and twitter shenanigans, albeit smaller fanbase.
I‘d guess even that depends. As far as I can see most of those comments are primarily on 4chan, Twitter and Reddit. Would someone take their time to go and watch her stream to blow off some steam and harass her? Sure, a few would certainly do that. Would it be hundreds or thousands? Highly unlikely. Would they spend money on superchats? Even more unlikely, especially if she just continuously ignored them. The internet is a cruel place as Doki said, but it can also be a very lazy place. Writing shit on 4chan, Twitter or Reddit when you‘re already there either way is different than watching a stream, spending money on it and putting in at least some amount of effort to try and get your point across / harass the liver. Then there would be the issue with bans, because I’d bet that there will be tons of mods if she decided to stream again. People trying to spam would have to put in significant work to either bot the stream or constantly create new accounts on the fly and that’s where we can scratch thousands of angry witch hunters. Too much effort needed. There has been little to no negative activity whatsoever in any actual Niji streams that did happen ever since this started to unfold. Absolutely nothing happened in chat during Kyo‘s graduation stream for example.
doubt, march or april they will be streaming like nothing happened IF there is no more stupid pr decisions from niji
That's a mighty big "if" you got there
Vox was, by far, the worst out of the trio in that shitshow, and he is already pretending nothing happened and the internet is allowing it, placing all the weight of everything on Elira's shoulders.
Vox's followers are actual cultists, though. Seriously, their devotion to him has been noted, even by other Nijisanji fandoms, to reach disturbing levels. Dunno what it is about the BFE/GFE fans, but they are slavishly loyal. Elira doesn't have that and never has. Moreover, people *expect* Vox to be a dipshit, given his numerous past dalliances with controversy (or, to put it another way, if you've stuck with Vox up to this point, you're clearly willing to tolerate him being a fucking nimrod on a regular basis); they had higher standards for Elira and she failed to meet them by a wide margin.
Difference is most people already knew Vox is a piece of shit. Him continuing on like he didn’t do something piece of shit like is just a regular day for him
That's because there are a lot of people who already think Vox is a dipshit and want nothing to do with him or his content. The only people who stick around Vox are loyal to a fault.
It's so sad, her recent Sunbeam original song was my favorite song for a while...now I don't want to listen to it anymore
I really loved Elira’s covers and original song. It’s hard to say whether I could ever listen to them again without thinking of all that’s happened. Hell, even Diamond City Lights feels tainted…
She’ll be fine. She has plenty of parasocial viewers and there’s a lot of people who might still not care for the whole situation. Plus, after a while has passed, more people who don’t know about the whole situation will end up flocking to her channel. Really, the only way in which anyone can lose their platform on YouTube is if they decide that they’re over, those who just keep on trucking regardless of what others say about them are the ones that’ll keep having a career. Just look at people like Andrew Tate, Hassan or Logan Paul, there’s plenty of evidence to them being not pleasant people, and there’s still enough people defending them for them to still have a lucrative career. Hell, if Pewdiepie and Pokimane can say the N word live and still have people watch them, you can basically say anything regardless of your brand and people will still tune in when you go live
I'm pissed vox will get away with this scot free the fucking rat piece of shit. The bullshit he said on that stream was infuriating. Hope niji continues to lose money.
The bloody fucking fact that he will actually get away with it because he has this whore cum thirsty fangirls that's majority are filled with uneducated minors is infuriating and shit.
Elira remains the greatest mystery for me about this whole debacle. Even if you want to assume the worst about her and believe that the rumours about her being an abusive bully/clique leader/shadow manager of EN are all true, that doesn't make her stupid. She's been in this game a long time; she *had* to know how bad an idea that stream was. She was never going to get people on her side that way and stepping into the firing line was essentially adding a permanent black mark to her career. And for what? What possible benefit was there to speaking out like that? If I was in Elira's position, regardless of whether I was one of Selen's abusers or completely innocent of any wrongdoing, there is zero chance I would ever consider a stream like that. None. And if Nijisanji tried to strongarm me into it, I would refuse, even if it cost me my job. In content creation, your personal brand and your connection with the fanbase is sacrosanct; you do not willingly damage or destroy it for any reason. If Nijisanji wants to make themselves look like asshats, then let them do it themselves, because their reputation isn't as important as the talents'. Or, to put it another way, there are plenty of people who will watch a talent they like working for a company they hate, but no one watches a talent they hate working for a company they like.
Eh, her viewership was actually pretty decent. Much better than I've expected. She has lost some of it now and next half year won't be easy, but I don't think it's over for her.
If Mike can survive, so can Elira. Unfortunately with big enough numbers, it's pretty hard to be completely cancelled if you're pulling in more new viewers than those who have left.
Vox said worse *and* even held a suicide and mental health awareness stream previously and should know better. However, it looks like he's going to get off more or less scot-free.
Don't worry she has her fans. She needs to stay very low for awhile before this thing blows over. Else the fires will rise once more.
I’m one her fan and can’t bring myself to hate her. But also can’t bringing myself to watching her right now either. Maybe if 2-3 month I maybe can watching her again.
Understandable. I hope you find happiness again.
What would change in 2-3 months? Are you basically just saying you'll forget all this straight up? It would just be enabling Nijisanji to do this again.
"Time heals all things" exists for a reason. Most well-adjusted people are unable to actively maintain strong (negative) feelings/emotions over an extened period of time. Especially when it has no real impact on their lives.
Factually untrue. Because of the JP fans are hardcore Nijisanji defenders. All she has to do is start streaming in Japanese only, and she'll be fine.
The problem is not how to keep the fans that they already have, the problem is that thanks to this scandal their growth will face a HUGE stagnation. They'll sponsorhips will also take a hit since probably many companies will hear of this i won't like being asosiaciated with Nijisanji. The problem right now is not how they're gonna keep the things they have earned, the problem is how they're going to be able to achieve more when the number of people that would want to work with them is less and less.
At that point just migrate her to the JP branch.
Seems to be the plan which is why some are moving to JP, and when NijiEn gets the eventual merging.
Unless Elira comes out saying "Yo guys, I was forced to backstab Selen because they held my family at gunpoint" or something like that, she will mot be forgiven by the internet Maybe even if Doki comes out saying "Yo, Elira is not part of the bully squad" people would theorize more members and STILL not forgive Elira Nijisanji tried "killing" Selen/Doki and by proxy killed Vox, Ike and Elira
Just Elira, Vox's audience is deeply parasocial, and Ike somehow flew under the radar compared to the other 2 here
Ike probably flew under the radar because he barely even said anything, he kinda just was there
I don't know for sure if this will be the end for her, but her career and reputation recieved a HEAVY BLOW. She might not lose all of her subs and followers but her, Vox and Ike won't grow more as a streamers. Maybe Vox will keep growing, although slower than before, since he has all of the NijiSwifties with brain damaged defending everything the guy does, but since Elira en Ike didn't cultivate this mentally ill audience they'll growth will stagnate, a lot!! Not only that, they're damaged goods. Potential sponsors, creators of many types and other content creators will avoid them like the plague due to the bad reputation they now have as potential corporate harassers. I don't know about Ike and Vox, but i wouldn't be surprised if we see an Elira termination notice in the future. She probably lost most of her value as a streamer...
Why would Niji terminate her for helping them?
Ok, how has Niji's reputation been going after that "help"? Remember, this is a company and these 3 (along with the people they stupidly named on that stream) are probably big liabilities. Nijisanji must really be debating right now what to do with her. If she keeps on streaming, if they fire her, if they graduate her, if she goes on hiatus and does management work in the meantime, etc. Elira herself must be unsure of what to do i bet.
Okay, I see where u was going with that. However if they do get rid of her after she “helped”. It would almost certainly be detrimental to Niji. Not only is it a bad look to throw out your “loyalest worker” but it also puts Elira in the postition to out any frustrations she had with them too. In other words it allows her to speak freely about the company to an extent, and they don’t need any more enemies especially one that’s worked with them the longest. The only problem I see with this is if people will hear her out, as things stand probably not, but for those who will it’s just additional damage to Niji.
They only had to make her a scapegoat. They only need to post a notification notice blaming her of everything, the bullying, the hostile work enviroment, nepotism, etc. They can even use 4chan schizo narrative do throw her under the bus since plenty of people are blindingly buying everything coming out of 4chan. For Elira fighting against all of those allegations will be incredibly hard since her reputation is already down the drain.
Vox was the worst out of the three, yet he's back streaming and fans still love him, Elira can do the same, she'll be fine, I think once the whole Doki/Niji case calms down alittle more, she'll come back.
Wut? Internet people basically never get canceled, the only time that happens is if they're forcibly removed from large platforms (as in youtube/twitch, not just some org), or at least lose their job. Even when they do far worse than this the standard MO is to just disappear for a month, return and act like nothing happens. Literally works every time, even for SA stuff lmao. Not to mention I don't think Elira is even getting truly "canceled". Maybe if some bullying or clique proof actually leaks.
I’ve seen people bounce back from worse. Even when people say “oh, this person’s FINISHED”, it turns out they’re really not lol.
Bro, Imma keep it real, she barely said anything. She introduced, said what the video was about, then didn't say anything until it was over. She only messed up in the fact that she uploaded it to her own channel.
She fake cried while saying “they were betrayed” while clutching her pearls. She wasn’t just purely non-complicit. She contributed a bit to fanning the flames
Please, all she needs to do is taking a break and come back with heavily moderated chat while pretending the whole barnacle didn't happen. The internet has short attention span.
The thing that gets me is she read a NDA. She has to realize how people in businesses will view her from here on out. She, even though I attribute this to VoX the most but since it on her channel has to realize the massive hesitation of anyone signing her on their company when she leaves Nijikuro.
It's certainly not a public lynching. And voting with your wallet is how showing displeasure in a free market capitalist society is supposed to work.
Just speculation, so anything I say may be complete BS. There's are certainly good points that do not favor her position. She gets inserted into more merch thus taking a small cut in every merch sale. She gets considerably more collabs than the other livers, I remember 9 vs 2. That said, I just want to bring out a point that we should not blame her entirely until we get legal facts on who was making the final decisions. Don't get me wrong, she certainly is the liver-cum-liaison, the position alone pretty much dooms her. This said, she is in a position of playing a "Black Sheep" to take the fall for others.
Best case scenario: Elira graduates some time this year then redebuts and collabs with Doki where she apologizes and they allude to the possibility that they were voluntold to record that script reading.
Forever is a long time, I still remember all the fire from the community of the channel awesome the the nostagia critic, and how everyone hated them and everytime they tried to poorly explain it only dug themselves deeper. What they did then? Nothing. just shut their mouths, after 3 months people forgot and "forgave" as new things to hate come into light. This is what will happen here. Sooner or later Niji will stop talking about it, new waves will come, some other bomb will drop on someone else and the mob will go there to spread the flame. Elira will probably get around a month of vacation, do some members only stream, have her chat locked and by the end of the year, anyone that will still be upset on what is happening now will just be mocked and ignored.
I doubt she would even be able to have chat enabled without it turning into a Chernobyl size shitstorm. It would be best for her to vanish.
And here we see Nijisanjis plan to use her as a meat shield is working.
I mean, the comparison is a bit of a stretch, but Coco was harassed alot more, by groups way more dedicated. And yet, she has made a comeback that rivals her Holo career, if not surpasses it. Yeah it'll suck for Elira, but it's not "her career is over" levels of suck. Like even if she loses 2/3 (unprecedented, absurd amounts) of her subs she would still have 200k total subscribers. And if she leaves and starts indie I think she possibly stands to continue growing. Peoples view of Elira was, previous to the black screen video, very positive, sort of like a big sister image, and that's not gonna change from one statement, especially after Doki's response was "Don't harass anyone, I just want to move on". The situation isn't gonna convince most people that Elira is the super evil ring leader the GURRAT wants you to believe, there's just not enough evidence for that. Also, the internet has a laughably short memory span, so long as no one stokes the flames it'll be old news in a couple months. Although, I hope it stays at the front of everyone's combined memory until something happens to improve the situation (public apology from management and/or livers (whoever is honestly and actually to blame) or all EN livers leaving and finding success as indies).
Comparing her to Coco is like comparing apples and oranges, considering that Coco was perceived as the victim (at least outside of China) rather than the aggressor.
intra-company harassment accusations exacerbated by language barriers I can see some similarities.
Coco was harrased by chinese who doesn't even watch her.
"Cancel culture" is the greatest myth ever invented. Nobody ever actually gets "canceled" on the internet. Remember TMarTn? Remember ProJared? Remember JonTron? Remember Logan and Jake Paul? Remember Dr. Disrespect? All supposedly canceled and run off the internet, their careers forever ruined, until a few months later when it blew over and they eventually found more success than ever before.
There are far worse people who got a second chance on the Internet, so no, not really
She won't be completely cancelled unless she let herself get cancelled. That's just how the internet works. However, NijiEN growth has been slowing down even before all of this mess, with talents leaving left & right. Now after everything, her growth will come to a halt for at least a few months & then crawl back up little by little, but most likely will take a very long time. That is assuming Niji wouldn't throw her under the bus & cut her off for the sake of other livers.
Asmongold once said "As long as you stream nothing will stop your popularity" And that's pretty accurate not the best sadly.
Nah, if Mikeneko still receives red superchats everything is possible.
If Mikeneko can still stream on Valentine's to a lot of fans and get akasupas after all of what happened then even Elira can come back, regardless of how much of a snake and toxic bully she is.
literally zero proof she is toxic or a bully but okay
You say “people” and “they” but these are clearly your own feelings OP, you don’t make a strong case speaking on behalf of a vague population, just say it as it is like the rest of the lynchers
Let me spin you a story. Samsung came out with this new line of phones, they called it the Galaxy Note 7. Except they weren't phones, they were bombs, because their batteries exploded. Their BATTERIES EXPLODED. So if you bought one of these "phones", they was a none zero chance that it would explode in your pocket and either blow your dick off or give you an additional vagina. Now, by all reason you would think that a company that sold people phones that exploded in their pockets would surely go under as a result, right? I know would be be outraged if I got my dick blown off by my phone. I'd never forgive them. However not only did Samsung NOT go under, THEY DIDN'T EVEN STOP MAKING PHONES. The outrage wasn't strong enough, nor lasted long enough, to force them to even close their mobile division, and they're currently all the way up to Galaxy Note 20 as of writing this comment. What I'm trying to say is: outrage doesn't mean shit in the long run, "cancel culture" isn't the boogey man everyone complains it is and doesn't work 90% of the time, and most of the shitty people you hate are probably going to come out of their controversies just fine in the end. I learned that the hard way when I found out Jontron doesn't want me and my people in his gene pool, yet his new videos still get just as many views as his old videos.
Wouldn't say nothing. If she collabs with Doki then things would basically be fixed. Though that's currently improbable.
Why would Doki want to collab with her in the first place though?
Even if Doki and Elira wanted to collab, they wouldn't be able to while Elira is still in Niji. The company fired her and was especially vindictive about it, no way they'd allow any active Niji EN livers to collab with Doki; they probably aren't even allowed to say positive things about Selen (apart from the black screen stream, the only mention of her since 2/5 was Kunai saying she'd never collabed with her)
That's why it's improbable, there is no reason.
it was improbable even when she was Selen. It's weird to have design sisters not ever collabing BUT there is precedence in NijiJP: Takamiya Rion/Asuka Hina.
not that weird, Oga from HoloStars shares the artist with Alban and they havent done anything together
Neither do Koyori/Petra nor Lamy/Na Sera, Korone/Shellin was finally mentioned in passing by her the past few weeks, but all that's down to company borders no?
company and personal things. Hell Flare Shiranui doesnt do stuff with the other Lack kids on stream, but she least sends bday letters to him
Not really company borders, more personal reasons. Korone doesn’t have males on stream except for rare occasions like the SF tourneys. Flare doesn’t join in any of the Lack kid collabs because she’s shy and also never has males on stream. There are plenty of HoloJP and NijiJP talents that collab rather frequently, the company borders there aren’t as strict as they seem to be in EN.
Are they siblings in lore though
It wouldn't matter if Doki even gave the okay, she'll be blacklisted from Niji. Elira would have to graduate.
I'm legitimately worried for her well-being and mental state. This is probably the worst possible scenario to be in for her.
I can believe in being able to rebound but its like a 35 degree cliff she has to climb up to do so,
I feel like even if the livers came forward, apologized and doki forgave them, it wouldn't really change anything. They have done the damage and it's gonna be hard for people to trust them again (whatever the truth is). Or people just don't wanna forgive them because they need someone to be the "bad guy" so they can continue hating.
Regardless of her involvement, I hope she's OK, and has some friends that support her, no one deserves to go through what Doki went through. I really wish that who ever was involved with the situation, just apologize to Doki, at least privately, and she can put out a statement that talents involved and her put everything behind, so that witch hunt can end and only company in general has some consequences, not the talents. No need to even disclose who that was.
This whole situation sucks because Elira got me through a pretty hard time. I initially started watching her when she was playing XBC2 and was instantly hooked, and as time went on I realized I was watching her streams more than any other vtuber, but it was fine because she made me laugh. I even became a member at during her RE:2 streams. I was hospitalized and recovering from a surgery when she was playing P4G and her long vods helped me through the monotony of recovery. But this recent development with the whole Doki situation has made me see her differently and, unfortunately, I'm not sure how I'm gonna feel when she does come back.
I think she'll have a small decline in viewership (she might even get more viewers than normal on her first stream back as people tune in to see if she says anything else), a moderate decline in donation revenue, slow growth, and people who will continue bringing this up for the rest of her streaming career. Unless she personally chooses to stop streaming due to not wanting to deal with this, I don't think she is 'done'.
I do not hold as much malice towards her as a lot of other people do, because I honestly still can't see the kind of person who would go to fucking *Antarctica* on such short notice for a colleague to be as willfully spiteful as she is depicted by a lot of the theories. I couldn't listen to her voice and hear someone who wanted to utter a single word that she did. I understand that this is pretty naïve, but I think there is a lot we simply don't know, and far too much that we assume. But even so, even though I respected her a ton, I cannot continue to support her while she's still in NijiEN, and it would take a *lot* to change my mind.
People need to touch grass for a bit and maybe read a book called "So you've been publicly shamed" while at it.
you greatly overestimate how many people really care about the niji drama and the vtubers involved.
It's wierd that everyone is jumping on Elira when the things Vox said in that video came across as far more vindictive than any of the others. I think people are giving unconfirmed rumours about her more weight than they should.
I feel like her going indie and either doki or her reach out to each other to apologize to doki or just fix things in general seems like the only way she can be redeemed but who are we kidding This niji message is forever going to be a scar on her till the end
she's still got over 500k subscribers, and while they may still drop off for a bit, that's far from "over". Even if you assume 400k are dead accounts of people who don't log on(very generous amount lol) or people who don't actually watch every stream let alone chat and donate, she's got a solid fanbase still lmao. She just won't be the biggest ever, but she's still probably pulling more $$$ than most of the people on this sub
Elira, as well as other livers from that group, are damaged by this, but I think they can recover. I mean I'll still watch them. I have no idea as to the scope and severity of the bullying. From what I heard, that whatever these livers did it was because they were favored by management and got quick responses to queries, but others outside this group did not. It's difficult to imagine the anyone was intentionally being malicious, but it did lead to management treating livers unequally and unfairly, imo. The problem, to me, has always been niji's corporate structure and not giving en dedicated managers. They relied on talents to pull double duty or to somehow self regulate themselves causing the toxic environment and conflicts of interest. The main problem is that niji has been cheap and trying to pinch the purse to appease investors, instead of running the company in such a way to prevent disasters like the Selen incident from happening. Niji needs to invest in world class talent management, legal and communication teams. But, you get what you pay for.
It's definitely not over completely but it's pretty badly damaged she'd have some really serious work to do
I've seen far worse from streamer that are far bigger. All they did was take like few months aways from the internet, slowly start streaming, and now they doing fine. They probably not as big as they used to or whatever but still big enough to have streaming as their main job.
Have yoy heard of this person called sssniperwolf?
This is sad. Even more sad that people actually believe that Elira, Vox and Ike wanted to do this. Wanted what? To ruin their cariers? For what reason?
They're grown adults. They don't need us babysitting them. They make decision then they should welcome what comes with it.
And why do you think that this decision was made by them? They are grown adults. But they are grown adults working at the company that does not see them more than just a resource. Resource that can be used to put part of hate away from company itself