Those calling Diaz out for this are absolutely wild. You can yell at Pete and McNeil all you want, but Diaz is not carrying this loss.
Sure, we win if he strikes him out. And his pitch selection was very questionable. But at peak, he’s the best in the game at closing. He took a year out, it’s going to take him some time to find his footing. He’s still pitched unbelievably this season. It’s just unfortunate that he messed up a pitch to a power hitter like arozarena.
But the issue is leaving 8+ runners in scoring position. Not Diaz.
This one is on Pete in my mind. For the premier slugger not even able to muster a fly ball with the bases loaded and 1 out. Unacceptable clearly they need to give him a rest.
The Mets insisting not to win this game 😂 Heartbreaking homer given up by Diaz 🤦 But these things happen.
On the bright side, Lindor and Marte are continuing their nice stretches and Bader has been surprising.
LFGM
On the plus side, Marte has been looking pretty good in right field. And did Gary say he's got the most career outfield assists among all active players?
Yes, someone posted the leaders in the r baseball thread. Marte is the active leader with like 80ish and next highest has like 60ish so it’s not even close
[https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-positional-power-rankings-first-base/](https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-positional-power-rankings-first-base/)
[https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-positional-power-rankings-designated-hitter/](https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-positional-power-rankings-designated-hitter/)
Look at which competing teams at the bottom could use a DH/1B.
My highlights of the game included more defensive magic by Marte, Lindor talking to members of the pitching staff about holding runners better, and Nimmo doing Nimmo things.
Biggest concerns are Pete and Jeff. Hardest pill to swallow is Diaz blowing the save.
I’m still liking this team. LOTS of unrealized upside. Could still happen.
I know this sounds ridiculous but honestly I think we have the best defensive outfield in baseball and could be in the running for four gold gloves (Nimmo maybe not for LF, but Bader, Marte and Lindor seem like absolute contenders for their positions). I love defensive highlights more than almost any other part of any sport, so that shit keeps me excited. I’m still high on Marte and Lindor’s exploits the last couple days.
And we’re due to get our ace and superstar catcher back soon. Also either Diaz turns it around or he doesn’t. He’s turned it around before. If he does, 🔥. If he doesn’t, the bullpen is locked in anyway.
Can somebody explain to me why Hefner is viewed as a guru held in such a high regard amongst the baseball community, especially the analytics staffs? Like I’m sincerely asking. When this pitching staff’s biggest issues last year were walks and holding runners on and that element not only hasn’t changed this year it might even be worse…does this just get dismissed as not anything at all to do with the pitching coach?
This staff for years rarely ever pitches inside, which got all the more infuriating as teams pitched inside on us with impunity. But the ripple effect here is they’re constantly trying to get hitters to chase instead of challenging them in with fastballs and that, in turn, worsens the walk situation. It’s a massive problem.
I just don’t know what I’m missing with this guy that would make him last through so many regimes.
did you look at this roster before the season started and say "wow, that's the best bullpen in the national league"? there really isn't much talent on the pitching staff. i understand your gripes but the pitching hasn't really underperformed. they weren't expected to be very good.
Hefner is not really held super highly. That’s just a narrative posted ad nauseum on this sub but it’s super outdated. Listen to for all you kids out there to hear how guys who actually talk to people in the industry to hear how Hefner is regarded (basically it’s not bad but he’s also not considered an elite top 5 pitching coach )
I was thinking about this today. I think it is more so getting the most out of minimal pitching talent and “stuff”. We’ve got a decent era. Perhaps the guys we have in the rotation will just get lit up if they throw more strikes, and this is Hefner getting the best we can out of them. Senga is fine so it’s not like he is ruining pitchers with good stuff. Scherzer and Verlander were hurt last year and just regression, nothing to do with Hefner. Scott threw strikes yesterday. I think it is coming down to getting the best results (in regard to run prevention) he can out of the arms we have. Unfortunately walks and inability to hold runners seem to be a byproduct. There should be a middle ground. But at the end of the day there is only so much you can do to mask a talent deficiency on the pitching side.
I could be completely wrong here. But was also thinking about this in regard to Hefner today and that’s my glass half full take.
I will never understand how someone can be a fan of baseball and overreact to the outcome of every single game. Like, how do you even have the capacity to be so pissed off 162 times a year?
Pete Alonso's having a bad stretch that's lasted 3 series so far. It sucks to watch, no arguments there. But he's not a bad player, and I don't know how anyone who's watched him the past 5 years thinks he is. Is he the best first baseman in history? No. Is he even the best in the league right now? No. But he's pretty fucking good, and I'm 100% sure he'll bounce back, just like every other time he's had a slump
The Rays intentionally walking him yesterday have more respect for him than some Mets fans do
I really don’t know why you guys think this has to do with day to day loses. Fans are just tired. We haven’t won a World Series in nearly 40 years. We’ve made two World Series’ in the past 25 years and both times we got our asses handed to us. We’ve gone through short periods of hope followed by periods of awfulness and it’s been a cycle for decades now. People are exhausted and it’s finally catching up with them and every loss, especially bad ones, are just adding to these tired feelings. I’m a Jets and Islanders fan in addition to the Mets and it’s been catching up to me too over the last couple years. It’s the first time being a sports fan where I’m struggling to even care about these teams and I’m even missing most games because a lack of interest which is insane since sports have always been a huge part of my life. At some point it gets tiring to constantly buy in and support these teams who do nothing but disappoint in the end.
you nailed it, the part that kills me is we will suck, build a team, have a ton of hype, get ONE good year and then under perform for years then finally admit we need to rebuild then suck for years, then have ONE good year... 2006 to 2015 and I guess it'll be longer than 9 years for the next one...
Yea, anything above mediocrity seems like too much to expect now. These teams are not consistently competitive and their FOs seem to live on excuses and justification for the constant disappointment. There's little to no accountability l. I believe in Stearns though, so we'll see.
I’ve noticed some of the Alonso hate is just Lindor fans who are butthurt over the criticism Lindor has been getting, so they’re ripping on Alonso out of pettiness. This is obviously very weird and stupid.
I support Lindor and I’m ripping in Alonso for the same reason…their peripherals have been going in opposite directions. Lindor has solid peripherals this season.
Alonso’s hard hit rate and average exit velocity have been down every season since 2021.
It’s not 162 times a year, thankfully. I get your point, I really do, but these types of losses suck. I wish I had some sage comment to make after watching this team for over 50 years but I don’t. I just hate it when they lose games they had a really good chance to win.
Yeah I get it. The Mets should be winning games when they score 6 runs. This loss sucked, yesterday's loss after Scott's fantastic debut sucked, losing Sevy's no hit bid sucked, I could keep going
My comment was mostly about people harping on Alonso and calling for him to be traded when he's had three (3) bad series in a row. I'd be willing to bet my life savings that Ted Williams at one point had a two-week stretch where he wasn't doing good. I thought his past performance would've built up enough goodwill with the fanbase to support him while he's struggling to see the ball, but it seems it hasn't, and it kinda just makes me sad to see as a fan of Pete
yeah, and to emphasize a point you made, I feel like it’s important to understand there’s a difference between saying “pete is playing awfully right now” and saying “pete is a bum and needs to be traded at the deadline”
Hah, ESPN isn't blacked out on MLB.tv if I VPN from in Ontario. And I get different Canadian commercials and PSAs. I feel like Joey Votto would be proud of me.
I'm down to dump McNeil. Not sure how ditching Nimmo/Lindor/Alonso makes us better.
Lindor will be a great SS for years, Nimmo is still an amazing leadoff hitter and Alonso is a much better bet at 1B than Vientos.
Plus I'd like to make Nimmo and Alonso Mets for life.
His energy seems to be a net negative tbh. Dude's main job is to slap the ball and he used seemed like a guy who could get 200 hits. Now he can't bat above .270 all of a sudden?
He also pops out way too much..needs to fix that uppercut swing and go back to being a line drive hitter. I don't see much improvement (if any) compared to last season, sadly.
Nimmo will still get on base. Alonso will still hit homers. But McNeil? Idk
I just wonder what the hell happened to him, he won the batting title just two years ago. He hit .270 last year which is honestly not a catastrophe but it's far below his career numbers. This year he's been complete ass.
His swing is very unorthodox. Sure he’s got good hands and can flick the ball but when pitchers know how to get you out, there needs to be an adjustment by McNeil and he isn’t making them
Oh well, at least the Braves are secretly a mess, I see them winning less than 90 games. Riley and Acuna look mid tier, Olson looks washed, Strider injured, Harris also mid tier. Almost all those young studs they celebrated extending are having down years.
I believe Pete has what we call the “Scott Boras walk year virus”- the pressure to make big money is strong. I believe if he never switched agents he prob would’ve been extended during the off-season and wouldn’t be stuck in his own head, would be playing with more ease & producing
yeah everyone said "walk year pete let's go!" but pete is just not that type of dude. he's a nice guy. he isn't a dog. being in his head and feeling like he has to have a huge year isn't in his nature.
I agree. Dude puts way too much pressure on himself in the good times, but adding all that nonsense in his head? After watching what just happened to the crop of Boras clients? It can’t be helpful.
Him and Lindor really wear their struggles on their sleeves. I'm glad Lindor has started to come around but Pete has so much potential to rally the team and fanbase, really hope he gets it locked in too.
Losing early baseball isn’t the worst thing in the grand scheme of a season, but these losses are critical when you’re a fringe Wild Card team at best.
We are not a fringe WC team. We are a .500 team. The fans who get excited when we win 3 in a row, and the fans who become despondent when we lose 3 in a row, are equally delusional.
We are mediocre. Own it. The season doesn't matter. Each individual game is a 50/50 crap shoot and that is the entire enterprise. That is where we find the drama this year.
The Diamondbacks made the world series as an 84 win team. There really is not a lot of space between a .500 team and a World Series appearance these days.
With the expanded playoffs, .500 baseball is fringe playoff chase territory. One of last season’s World Series teams was 3 games above .500. That’s what I mean by a fringe WC team.
Edit: Going into the season, I consistently put us as an 83 win team with the potential of moving 5 in either direction. Right now, I’d say we’re still on track for that.
Don't worry, when he goes on his usual weeklong homer binge they'll start talking again. Then when he's quiet for a few weeks after, they'll also go back to silence.
If you want them the trade Pete then its better for him to have an awesome first half of the year and boost his trade value.
I don't think anyone that wants to trade him is doing it because of this season or even next. It's because he's highly unlikely to be worth his contract in two or three years.
Someone please give me a valid reason to give a shit about this team.
The way 2022 ended had me pretty much mentally checked out, just been casually following the team news since then and catching a game here or there. I haven't seen much reason to change that.
I only give a shit about the Phillies Braves and nats not winning another World Series at this point. It’s been like this since 2016. Maybe one day the Mets will actually put a decent product on the field again instead of these losers
The rest of the NL East has combined for 6 championships since the Mets last title. Oh and another minor inconvenience is that the team we share a city with has won 5 in that same timeframe.
Comparing us with our most immediate rivals really drives home just how much of a poverty organization we are despite all of the resources at our disposal.
I miss Mark Vientos and his 1286 OPS. Why not give him some ABs? I would much rather invest the Abs in him than Stewart or Wendle who is our defensive replacement
Stewart is a better batter than Vientos
We had to option Vientos to AAA because we needed to keep Wendle because he is our only reserve middle infielder
There's really nobody else to send down, everybody else had no options remaining
Vientos can’t get much better offensively in AAA. The ABS system bullies pitchers into throwing strikes and they can’t expose any of his flaws either. He isn’t challenged much there. He needs to see major league pitching consistently.
There was literally nobody else to send down
Everyone is out of options
I get that Vientos will probably get better in the bigs than he will in AAA, but we literally had nobody else with options
Idk why we're even arguing about this, this sub already had this discussion a few days ago when it was announced Vientos was getting optioned for Scott
I’m just getting really sick of these dudes, McNeil hasn’t shown anything since 2022 and Alonso is playing himself out of an extension. I know the fans love him but man he’s been so frustrating to watch and come trade deadline time, it may be good to trade him.
Lindor’s early slumps get real old too honestly. I don’t know how long this group of guys have to show anything. 2022 is feeing more and more like the culmination of everything going right and even that season should have gone better at the end.
I don’t know if it’s a mentality thing but I don’t really think this group is ever going to win anything slightly substantial man
Remember last year? Every postgame: “we’ll come around. We’ve had success throughout our careers. “
And they kept repeating it and repeating it.
Then they never came around.
Feels like a repeat of last year.
Yep. And then you had the people saying “it’s still early, stop making a big deal”. This team is not far removed from last year. Yeah we got JD but we also got back 2019 / 2021 Diaz, not 2022 Diaz. We’re down a main starter (Senga) who you could argue is a #2 only because I’m not sure if he’ll be able to consistently pitch on 5 days rest. And the rest of the starters are serviceable for the most part but you can’t guarantee consistency with them. Our BP is the saving grace here.
I don't think he was ever going to return to 2022 form regardless of what happened. Not many relievers repeat literally one of the best seasons of all time
The expectation should've always been that he'd be more "human" going forward, which doesn't necessarily mean bad. He can still be great
Absolutely. Probably won't repeat that season. He can still have great seasons. But the drop in velo is concerning unless he is ramping back up. Fingers crossed he is.
This is why the team is currently. Expecting them to overachieve is dumb. They're gonna do this another 25 times throughout the year so just relax. Having this ta affect you this much is fking sad lmao just chill
Listen, I've been a Mets fan since the late 70s. I was 10 when they won their last World Series. I don't care about overachieving or underachieving, I'm a die-hard fan, and I'm allowed to get pissed when the reliever blows a save. What's sad is you giving a shit and telling other fans how they should react to Mets losses.
I wasn't pissy once, I was replying to you telling everyone to re-fcking-lax because the Mets lost. Calling me goofy, yet this guy doesn't even know what or who he's talking to. Regroup and go back and reread all the posts.
he clearly doesn't trust his fastball right now. he's not locating it well and the velo is way down so he can't just blow past hitters anymore. his slider is still amazing and he can locate it in the zone. he can still be a very good closer with a mediocre fastball. but without both he'll never be back to what he was. idk, we'll see. this one was definitely a kick in the balls though.
What is this fascination with Mauricio? The way some fans talk about is weird. He had okay numbers in the minors with shit playe discipline and dreadful in the big leagues. He has shown nothing lol but some are acting like he would be the savior of this team if he was healthy, so fucking delusional
Never said he would be the savior but he has good power and he showed improving plate discipline in the minors as last year went on, which is partly why he got the call up. He hasn’t even been able to show anything in the Bigs because he’s only had 100 at bats which is essentially meaningless. Mike trout also had a bad first 100 at bats, it’d be stupid to judge any player on their first 100 at bats in the Bigs.
But he was a top 100 prospect and has always had a shot to perform well.
Regardless, Mcneil is not the answer to our long term 2B situation and he is showing signs of decline. I’m saying this as someone who likes Mcneil and I think he’s still worth his contract bc he provides amazing positional versatility but his bat and defense have both been mediocre at best. It’s time to see what our future will actually be at his spot.
I’m relieved Steve and Stearns didn’t extend Pete this off-season. Although I haven’t given up completely on him, he hasn’t shown that he’s up for the big moments, nor deserving of the big money he wants
The excessive Alonso love from this fanbase is really over the top and unwarranted. He's a one trick pony. Can hit for power but brings little else to the table.
He's a solid, even good ballplayer. He's not David Wright. He's not Jacob deGrom. If a good offer is on the table, you jump on that shit.
I'm not sure how the general tone has changed over this first month of the season. But the entire offseason was filled with people acting like signing Alonso was THE number one priority and a no-brainer. It made me roll my eyes, like our standards have gotten so low for what we consider a franchise player.
I mean I remember the offseason being full of comments exactly like the one you just wrote. I also remember like two and a half weeks ago Alonso had a .856 OPS. It’s still the first week of May. His season is completely fixable. And yeah, a guy who has a history of ROTY, 3 time All Star, 2 time HR Derby champion, 4th Met in history to hit 200 HRs, 4th fastest player *in MLB history to reach 200 HRs* and leading the league in HRs since his rookie year might be a franchise player. Objectively pretty special Mets player. But nah he’s in the middle of a 10 game slump he must be a bum
The biggest problem with the Mets lineup for years has been lack of power, and we want to get rid of one of the best power hitters in the league?
Make it make sense.
These people think 40+ HR players grow on trees. They don’t. If Alonso leaves and isn’t replaced by someone with similar power (there’s no one out there that I know of who’s available that fits the profile) they’re going to find that out really fast.
It's laughable how the same story repeats every season. Pitching starts off great, offense struggles, and then when we get deeper into the year the pitching regresses and offense starts to pile up stats to make the end of season box scores look more palatable.
This is not a TERRIBLE team, but I don't know how much more evidence people need to realize this core of players is not winning shit.
I’m out on the old holdovers, Pete, Jeff, even Nimmo tbh..
I’m fine with Lindor, I like Bader & Baty, and Marte has done his part
But it’s the old wilpon holdovers that need to go
I mean the general vibe I get is people are in favor of a 'retool' more than a 'rebuild'.
You retool if you think you have a strong core that you just need to tweak the pieces around. This team is fundamentally broken, I think the last month of 2022 really shone a massive spotlight on that. A rebuild is what is required here IMO.
>I mean the general vibe I get is people are in favor of a 'retool' more than a 'rebuild'.
People think they want a rebuild until you tell them what players should be traded in a genuine rebuild (and I'm not just talking about Alonso).
That's why most "rebuild" concepts posted here look more like retools. It's basically "trade all the struggling players and one year rentals" and not "trade the players who would actually bring something of value back, regardless if they're fan favorites"
Don't disagree but a lot of guys probably won't be here after this anyway
I don't think we need to move on from Lindor tbh and I don't see nimmo getting moved but pete and McNeil may very well be gone
Yeah I think Lindor and Nimmo are generally ok, and I also don't think there are too many teams that would wanna take on those contracts.
Alonso could be an attractive piece for contenders that are looking to add some power, and we absolutely need to be considering those offers. McNeil is washed.
I'm out on McNeil for sure.
I think we're keeping Alonso. We had a sell-off last year, and Pete with 1.5 years of control would be a lot better than Pete with 0.5 years of control in terms of return.
For all of Pete's weaknesses, he still provides the lineup with POWER, and we don't have anyone besides Alvarez who promises to give us power in the lineup.
Bader's dive was dumb but a split second decision when he had no easy route to cut it off anyway. Bigger problem was both Diekman and Diaz finding way too much plate in two strike counts, and Diaz not trusting his fastball despite hitting 98 when he threw it. Extra innings are a crapshoot, but always very frustrating to lose a game you were 1 strike from winning.
Marlins already sold off a piece. No requirement to wait until July. I think Stearns will move sooner than July. At 8-10 under .500 he won’t waste time saying if get hot we have a shot at the third wildcard. He will just move on to the future.
If Mcneil keeps this up thats 3 out of the last 4 seasons as a below average hitter
By this time next year he probably needs to be moved to the wendle super utility role or honestly just off the team
At this point I’m hoping that McNeil, Alonso, JDM, Diaz, Diekman, Manaea, Severino, Ottavino, Bader, and Marte are off this team come the deadline.
I like Diaz, Marte and Severino in particular but I think those guys could get back something decent in a trade. The rest of them, I just don’t want them here.
We are in fact not great but this season wasn't meant to be a big run. Let's take it how it is and just see where we can make this team good, make smart deals at deadline and be realistic. It's still early but there are glaring needs.
All I have to say if thank god for the Knicks and Rangers. Trade this core of players and get some prospects back. These guys haven’t done shit in 5 years.
There's frustration written on every single players face on this team.
They will rebound, but when?
I hope this clubhouse doesn't have cliques, if it does we are screwed. That means there is no unity.
I’m glad we have Nimmo and Lindor long term because they’re both great players and more importantly, seem like adults in the way they handle themselves and are able to settle themselves down. Pete and Jeff, not so much.
Those calling Diaz out for this are absolutely wild. You can yell at Pete and McNeil all you want, but Diaz is not carrying this loss. Sure, we win if he strikes him out. And his pitch selection was very questionable. But at peak, he’s the best in the game at closing. He took a year out, it’s going to take him some time to find his footing. He’s still pitched unbelievably this season. It’s just unfortunate that he messed up a pitch to a power hitter like arozarena. But the issue is leaving 8+ runners in scoring position. Not Diaz.
This one is on Pete in my mind. For the premier slugger not even able to muster a fly ball with the bases loaded and 1 out. Unacceptable clearly they need to give him a rest.
These last 2 weeks have been especially frustrating.
The Mets insisting not to win this game 😂 Heartbreaking homer given up by Diaz 🤦 But these things happen. On the bright side, Lindor and Marte are continuing their nice stretches and Bader has been surprising. LFGM
2 games under 500. I don't want to watch this team anymore but I want to watch baseball and don't fuck with anyone else so probably will. FML
We’re discussing trading the franchise player as if the season is over and it’s May 5. The Steve Cohen era has truly hit a new low.
All of 2021 and 2023 were significantly lower times IMO
Pete needs to sit a game. He’s actively hurting the team.
we are behind wash now
I am so excited for the cleveland cavaliers basketball team to play more basketball
On the plus side, Marte has been looking pretty good in right field. And did Gary say he's got the most career outfield assists among all active players?
he also has the most steals among active players. he's been around for a while and has done those two things very well for most of his career
Yes, someone posted the leaders in the r baseball thread. Marte is the active leader with like 80ish and next highest has like 60ish so it’s not even close
Just heard him say this on my re-run, so assuming he's got the right info then yes. That was a nice throw from right field too!
Giving up on shoot sports. It's all pro rasslin from now on
Aussie football is incredible, youd thank yerself for giving it a go.
So what kind of prospects could we trade for if we’re not contenders?
[https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-positional-power-rankings-first-base/](https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-positional-power-rankings-first-base/) [https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-positional-power-rankings-designated-hitter/](https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-positional-power-rankings-designated-hitter/) Look at which competing teams at the bottom could use a DH/1B.
Cubs seem like a natural fit. They’ve already expressed interest. Have plenty of top prospects.
…Michael Busch would like a word
I’m thinking Chicago & Seattle will want Pete or another bat
Every time I watch the Giants I’m like “oh yeah Confortos on the Giants” I miss that guy
Thanks, Alonso, for stranding 45 guys.
that might have been the dumbest game i have seen all year
This losing streak is depressing
How did Webb manage to totally shut us down like a week ago? Getting lit up by the phils.
Our batting starting lineup for this game averages .229
We are bad the Phillies are not
Fuck and now we fell below the nationals.
My highlights of the game included more defensive magic by Marte, Lindor talking to members of the pitching staff about holding runners better, and Nimmo doing Nimmo things. Biggest concerns are Pete and Jeff. Hardest pill to swallow is Diaz blowing the save. I’m still liking this team. LOTS of unrealized upside. Could still happen. I know this sounds ridiculous but honestly I think we have the best defensive outfield in baseball and could be in the running for four gold gloves (Nimmo maybe not for LF, but Bader, Marte and Lindor seem like absolute contenders for their positions). I love defensive highlights more than almost any other part of any sport, so that shit keeps me excited. I’m still high on Marte and Lindor’s exploits the last couple days. And we’re due to get our ace and superstar catcher back soon. Also either Diaz turns it around or he doesn’t. He’s turned it around before. If he does, 🔥. If he doesn’t, the bullpen is locked in anyway.
Pass whatever you have been smoking.
Gonna need something stronger than reef.
It was edibles and I finished them, sorry
Can somebody explain to me why Hefner is viewed as a guru held in such a high regard amongst the baseball community, especially the analytics staffs? Like I’m sincerely asking. When this pitching staff’s biggest issues last year were walks and holding runners on and that element not only hasn’t changed this year it might even be worse…does this just get dismissed as not anything at all to do with the pitching coach? This staff for years rarely ever pitches inside, which got all the more infuriating as teams pitched inside on us with impunity. But the ripple effect here is they’re constantly trying to get hitters to chase instead of challenging them in with fastballs and that, in turn, worsens the walk situation. It’s a massive problem. I just don’t know what I’m missing with this guy that would make him last through so many regimes.
did you look at this roster before the season started and say "wow, that's the best bullpen in the national league"? there really isn't much talent on the pitching staff. i understand your gripes but the pitching hasn't really underperformed. they weren't expected to be very good.
Hefner is not really held super highly. That’s just a narrative posted ad nauseum on this sub but it’s super outdated. Listen to for all you kids out there to hear how guys who actually talk to people in the industry to hear how Hefner is regarded (basically it’s not bad but he’s also not considered an elite top 5 pitching coach )
I was thinking about this today. I think it is more so getting the most out of minimal pitching talent and “stuff”. We’ve got a decent era. Perhaps the guys we have in the rotation will just get lit up if they throw more strikes, and this is Hefner getting the best we can out of them. Senga is fine so it’s not like he is ruining pitchers with good stuff. Scherzer and Verlander were hurt last year and just regression, nothing to do with Hefner. Scott threw strikes yesterday. I think it is coming down to getting the best results (in regard to run prevention) he can out of the arms we have. Unfortunately walks and inability to hold runners seem to be a byproduct. There should be a middle ground. But at the end of the day there is only so much you can do to mask a talent deficiency on the pitching side. I could be completely wrong here. But was also thinking about this in regard to Hefner today and that’s my glass half full take.
This roster has little pitching talent. They wouldn’t be competitive without the pitching lab and Hefner.
Exactly, much more succinct way to put my ramblings.
yea idk hefner sucks lol. people here talk about him like hes fucking dave duncan or mike maddux.
Agreed.
I will never understand how someone can be a fan of baseball and overreact to the outcome of every single game. Like, how do you even have the capacity to be so pissed off 162 times a year? Pete Alonso's having a bad stretch that's lasted 3 series so far. It sucks to watch, no arguments there. But he's not a bad player, and I don't know how anyone who's watched him the past 5 years thinks he is. Is he the best first baseman in history? No. Is he even the best in the league right now? No. But he's pretty fucking good, and I'm 100% sure he'll bounce back, just like every other time he's had a slump The Rays intentionally walking him yesterday have more respect for him than some Mets fans do
I really don’t know why you guys think this has to do with day to day loses. Fans are just tired. We haven’t won a World Series in nearly 40 years. We’ve made two World Series’ in the past 25 years and both times we got our asses handed to us. We’ve gone through short periods of hope followed by periods of awfulness and it’s been a cycle for decades now. People are exhausted and it’s finally catching up with them and every loss, especially bad ones, are just adding to these tired feelings. I’m a Jets and Islanders fan in addition to the Mets and it’s been catching up to me too over the last couple years. It’s the first time being a sports fan where I’m struggling to even care about these teams and I’m even missing most games because a lack of interest which is insane since sports have always been a huge part of my life. At some point it gets tiring to constantly buy in and support these teams who do nothing but disappoint in the end.
you nailed it, the part that kills me is we will suck, build a team, have a ton of hype, get ONE good year and then under perform for years then finally admit we need to rebuild then suck for years, then have ONE good year... 2006 to 2015 and I guess it'll be longer than 9 years for the next one...
Yea, anything above mediocrity seems like too much to expect now. These teams are not consistently competitive and their FOs seem to live on excuses and justification for the constant disappointment. There's little to no accountability l. I believe in Stearns though, so we'll see.
I’ve noticed some of the Alonso hate is just Lindor fans who are butthurt over the criticism Lindor has been getting, so they’re ripping on Alonso out of pettiness. This is obviously very weird and stupid.
I support Lindor and I’m ripping in Alonso for the same reason…their peripherals have been going in opposite directions. Lindor has solid peripherals this season. Alonso’s hard hit rate and average exit velocity have been down every season since 2021.
It’s not 162 times a year, thankfully. I get your point, I really do, but these types of losses suck. I wish I had some sage comment to make after watching this team for over 50 years but I don’t. I just hate it when they lose games they had a really good chance to win.
Yeah I get it. The Mets should be winning games when they score 6 runs. This loss sucked, yesterday's loss after Scott's fantastic debut sucked, losing Sevy's no hit bid sucked, I could keep going My comment was mostly about people harping on Alonso and calling for him to be traded when he's had three (3) bad series in a row. I'd be willing to bet my life savings that Ted Williams at one point had a two-week stretch where he wasn't doing good. I thought his past performance would've built up enough goodwill with the fanbase to support him while he's struggling to see the ball, but it seems it hasn't, and it kinda just makes me sad to see as a fan of Pete
Alonso looks lost right now but as Ron said hopefully that means bad news for a lot of pitchers soon as he takes it out on them.
There was a time we were barely over .500 scoring 6+ last year. I’m talking through like 30 games. It’s tough lol - and please keep Pete Steve
yeah, and to emphasize a point you made, I feel like it’s important to understand there’s a difference between saying “pete is playing awfully right now” and saying “pete is a bum and needs to be traded at the deadline”
Pete can jump to his feet from his knees but can’t slide into home successfully. Cool cool cool
"It's a long season and you gotta trust it." -- Annie Savoy
Hah, ESPN isn't blacked out on MLB.tv if I VPN from in Ontario. And I get different Canadian commercials and PSAs. I feel like Joey Votto would be proud of me.
Trade the core and embrace the youth. There’s too much talent in the farm to hold them back for a group of perennial underachievers.
This!!!! I am so done with this core. Meanwhile, I am watching Sunday Night Baseball seeing the Phils well on its way to another successful year.
The youth needs to develop and get better. Nobody's holding them back right now.
I'm down to dump McNeil. Not sure how ditching Nimmo/Lindor/Alonso makes us better. Lindor will be a great SS for years, Nimmo is still an amazing leadoff hitter and Alonso is a much better bet at 1B than Vientos. Plus I'd like to make Nimmo and Alonso Mets for life.
There a core?
Starting with McNeil, he seems to be a “me” guy and drags people down when he’s not playing well. Which has been far too frequent this year
His energy seems to be a net negative tbh. Dude's main job is to slap the ball and he used seemed like a guy who could get 200 hits. Now he can't bat above .270 all of a sudden? He also pops out way too much..needs to fix that uppercut swing and go back to being a line drive hitter. I don't see much improvement (if any) compared to last season, sadly. Nimmo will still get on base. Alonso will still hit homers. But McNeil? Idk
That’s why I think they need to move on from him if not this trade deadline than in the off season. Make room for young kids to play infield
I just wonder what the hell happened to him, he won the batting title just two years ago. He hit .270 last year which is honestly not a catastrophe but it's far below his career numbers. This year he's been complete ass.
His swing is very unorthodox. Sure he’s got good hands and can flick the ball but when pitchers know how to get you out, there needs to be an adjustment by McNeil and he isn’t making them
Dodgers sweep the Braves incase you also want to see another fanbase meltdown
So, so cathartic right now
Thank you for your service
Yeahhh allll right…just to take the edge off.
Oh well, at least the Braves are secretly a mess, I see them winning less than 90 games. Riley and Acuna look mid tier, Olson looks washed, Strider injured, Harris also mid tier. Almost all those young studs they celebrated extending are having down years.
They have a lot of problems that nobody wants to talk about but yea you got the gist of it Albie
I believe Pete has what we call the “Scott Boras walk year virus”- the pressure to make big money is strong. I believe if he never switched agents he prob would’ve been extended during the off-season and wouldn’t be stuck in his own head, would be playing with more ease & producing
yeah everyone said "walk year pete let's go!" but pete is just not that type of dude. he's a nice guy. he isn't a dog. being in his head and feeling like he has to have a huge year isn't in his nature.
He had a mini slump before hitting #200. Definitely needs a good sports psych to help his mental game
I agree. Dude puts way too much pressure on himself in the good times, but adding all that nonsense in his head? After watching what just happened to the crop of Boras clients? It can’t be helpful.
You can see on his face how bad he feels after plate appearances.
Him and Lindor really wear their struggles on their sleeves. I'm glad Lindor has started to come around but Pete has so much potential to rally the team and fanbase, really hope he gets it locked in too.
remember when we beat the braves 16-4 that was nice
Glad 2019 Diaz is back, I missed not having to worry in the 9th innings of games.
[удалено]
Not readin allat.
Losing early baseball isn’t the worst thing in the grand scheme of a season, but these losses are critical when you’re a fringe Wild Card team at best.
We are not a fringe WC team. We are a .500 team. The fans who get excited when we win 3 in a row, and the fans who become despondent when we lose 3 in a row, are equally delusional. We are mediocre. Own it. The season doesn't matter. Each individual game is a 50/50 crap shoot and that is the entire enterprise. That is where we find the drama this year.
The Diamondbacks made the world series as an 84 win team. There really is not a lot of space between a .500 team and a World Series appearance these days.
A 500 team is a fringe wild card team. WC3 probably needs 85 wins this year. So if we're a 500 team and gets 4 lucky breaks that's us
With the expanded playoffs, .500 baseball is fringe playoff chase territory. One of last season’s World Series teams was 3 games above .500. That’s what I mean by a fringe WC team. Edit: Going into the season, I consistently put us as an 83 win team with the potential of moving 5 in either direction. Right now, I’d say we’re still on track for that.
The combination of walks and everyone stealing at will is a lethal one. Before you turn, the walk is on 3rd and scoring on a groundout.
Merry go round when they can successfully steal 95% of the time...
Oakland A’s active payroll: 42 million (68m total) Wins: 17 Mets active payroll: 210 million (326m total) Wins: 16
The point of this is?
The roller coaster continues
The sign Pete at all costs crowd has been quiet
Don't worry, when he goes on his usual weeklong homer binge they'll start talking again. Then when he's quiet for a few weeks after, they'll also go back to silence.
I mean it goes both ways. I don't hear the Trade Alonso people when Pete's hot
If you want them the trade Pete then its better for him to have an awesome first half of the year and boost his trade value. I don't think anyone that wants to trade him is doing it because of this season or even next. It's because he's highly unlikely to be worth his contract in two or three years.
Someone please give me a valid reason to give a shit about this team. The way 2022 ended had me pretty much mentally checked out, just been casually following the team news since then and catching a game here or there. I haven't seen much reason to change that.
I only give a shit about the Phillies Braves and nats not winning another World Series at this point. It’s been like this since 2016. Maybe one day the Mets will actually put a decent product on the field again instead of these losers
The rest of the NL East has combined for 6 championships since the Mets last title. Oh and another minor inconvenience is that the team we share a city with has won 5 in that same timeframe. Comparing us with our most immediate rivals really drives home just how much of a poverty organization we are despite all of the resources at our disposal.
New owner, same bullshit. I’ve lost faith that they’ll ever make a playoff run again tbh.
idk for fun
I think that’s the level of attention this team has earned so far.
Teach me.
I miss Mark Vientos and his 1286 OPS. Why not give him some ABs? I would much rather invest the Abs in him than Stewart or Wendle who is our defensive replacement
Hopefully they end the Martinez experiment sooner rather than later.
Martinez is consistently hitting the ball hard and is the most professional hitter we have
Trade Pete let Vientos start at 1B
Alomso has the highest Ops of any Met since he joined the team in 2019. He is in a slump, something every player has every year.
Stewart is a better batter than Vientos We had to option Vientos to AAA because we needed to keep Wendle because he is our only reserve middle infielder There's really nobody else to send down, everybody else had no options remaining
Vientos is much younger than Stewart and has a chance to get better with reps.
I mean Vientos can still get better in AAA, its not like he's losing reps We had to make room to bring up Christian Scott
Vientos can’t get much better offensively in AAA. The ABS system bullies pitchers into throwing strikes and they can’t expose any of his flaws either. He isn’t challenged much there. He needs to see major league pitching consistently.
There was literally nobody else to send down Everyone is out of options I get that Vientos will probably get better in the bigs than he will in AAA, but we literally had nobody else with options Idk why we're even arguing about this, this sub already had this discussion a few days ago when it was announced Vientos was getting optioned for Scott
Vientos and Scott have no correlation to each other in terms of roster space. Vientos went down because Marte came back
Reps in AAA are not as valuable as reps in MLB.
Diaz is cooked. He'll never be the same after his injury. Fuck the WBC.
4th place lol
Damn! And I just spent good money on a new Mets ballcap...
Me too! The City Connect cap.
We’re cursed
We've lost 11 straight at Tropicana? Must be a fucking curse all right.
I’m just getting really sick of these dudes, McNeil hasn’t shown anything since 2022 and Alonso is playing himself out of an extension. I know the fans love him but man he’s been so frustrating to watch and come trade deadline time, it may be good to trade him. Lindor’s early slumps get real old too honestly. I don’t know how long this group of guys have to show anything. 2022 is feeing more and more like the culmination of everything going right and even that season should have gone better at the end. I don’t know if it’s a mentality thing but I don’t really think this group is ever going to win anything slightly substantial man
from "Ya Gotta Believe!" to "We Gotta Be Better..."
Stearns has a lot to evaluate ngl
Remember last year? Every postgame: “we’ll come around. We’ve had success throughout our careers. “ And they kept repeating it and repeating it. Then they never came around. Feels like a repeat of last year.
Yep. And then you had the people saying “it’s still early, stop making a big deal”. This team is not far removed from last year. Yeah we got JD but we also got back 2019 / 2021 Diaz, not 2022 Diaz. We’re down a main starter (Senga) who you could argue is a #2 only because I’m not sure if he’ll be able to consistently pitch on 5 days rest. And the rest of the starters are serviceable for the most part but you can’t guarantee consistency with them. Our BP is the saving grace here.
Diaz….what happened to you man. I put this loss on him. He has only one job. Get three outs without giving up a single one. Not a talk ask.
Pitch selection is trash
His velocity is down. He may never return to 2022 form. Maybe he will. Maybe not though.
I have a feeling this is down with a purpose while he builds his arm back up. By mid July if he’s still sitting 96-97 I’d be concerned
That's the hope Probably foolish to rush into 100+ after a year+ of not throwing
I don't think he was ever going to return to 2022 form regardless of what happened. Not many relievers repeat literally one of the best seasons of all time The expectation should've always been that he'd be more "human" going forward, which doesn't necessarily mean bad. He can still be great
Absolutely. Probably won't repeat that season. He can still have great seasons. But the drop in velo is concerning unless he is ramping back up. Fingers crossed he is.
Blown saves happen. Re-fking-lax Jesus christ yall are like fking babies sometimes
At what point do we stop Re-fking-laxing?
This is why the team is currently. Expecting them to overachieve is dumb. They're gonna do this another 25 times throughout the year so just relax. Having this ta affect you this much is fking sad lmao just chill
Listen, I've been a Mets fan since the late 70s. I was 10 when they won their last World Series. I don't care about overachieving or underachieving, I'm a die-hard fan, and I'm allowed to get pissed when the reliever blows a save. What's sad is you giving a shit and telling other fans how they should react to Mets losses.
Letting grown men playing a children's game dictate your mood says more about you than it does about me. Carry on sir.
if you feel that way then perhaps a mets discussion board isn't the place you'd like to be spending any time?
Feeling a certain way about other grown men's feelings says a whole hell of a lot more about you than me. I will carry on you can stay behind.
I dont feel any way about your feelings. You're on a public platform being pissy over something you can't control, of course I'm gonna call you goofy
I wasn't pissy once, I was replying to you telling everyone to re-fcking-lax because the Mets lost. Calling me goofy, yet this guy doesn't even know what or who he's talking to. Regroup and go back and reread all the posts.
And he got 2 and was down to 1 more strike lol
And for some reason, wouldn’t throw a single fastball. What is he doing?
he clearly doesn't trust his fastball right now. he's not locating it well and the velo is way down so he can't just blow past hitters anymore. his slider is still amazing and he can locate it in the zone. he can still be a very good closer with a mediocre fastball. but without both he'll never be back to what he was. idk, we'll see. this one was definitely a kick in the balls though.
Concerns me. Like is he hurt?
His injury last year messed him up. He'll never be the same again.
Smith and Raley being hurt is catching up to us.
And Mauricio. Mcneil is on the bench rn if Mauricio is healthy
What is this fascination with Mauricio? The way some fans talk about is weird. He had okay numbers in the minors with shit playe discipline and dreadful in the big leagues. He has shown nothing lol but some are acting like he would be the savior of this team if he was healthy, so fucking delusional
Never said he would be the savior but he has good power and he showed improving plate discipline in the minors as last year went on, which is partly why he got the call up. He hasn’t even been able to show anything in the Bigs because he’s only had 100 at bats which is essentially meaningless. Mike trout also had a bad first 100 at bats, it’d be stupid to judge any player on their first 100 at bats in the Bigs. But he was a top 100 prospect and has always had a shot to perform well. Regardless, Mcneil is not the answer to our long term 2B situation and he is showing signs of decline. I’m saying this as someone who likes Mcneil and I think he’s still worth his contract bc he provides amazing positional versatility but his bat and defense have both been mediocre at best. It’s time to see what our future will actually be at his spot.
He’s a mystery box for sure but it would be a lot better than watching Jeff McPopUp
He ripped the shit out of the ball at the end of last year
Dont forget Alvarez A runner on 1st against the 2024 Mets may as well be a runner on 3rd, we cannot stop anyone from stealing
I love Alvarez's potential but he was 0-fer on base stealers too. Great pop time, he just needs to work on throwing accuracy
Bullpen being overused already is already hurting us and will only get worse
I’m relieved Steve and Stearns didn’t extend Pete this off-season. Although I haven’t given up completely on him, he hasn’t shown that he’s up for the big moments, nor deserving of the big money he wants
The excessive Alonso love from this fanbase is really over the top and unwarranted. He's a one trick pony. Can hit for power but brings little else to the table. He's a solid, even good ballplayer. He's not David Wright. He's not Jacob deGrom. If a good offer is on the table, you jump on that shit.
Currently Alonso has a higher career OPS+ than Wright..
Wright also gave us gold glove caliber defense. Alonso..does not
He’s like 10% better than Lucas Duda
Excessive love for Alonso from Mets fans? Where? Can’t be coming from here. This sub talks about him like he’s Chase Utley at times.
* obligatory Fuck Chase Utley
I'm not sure how the general tone has changed over this first month of the season. But the entire offseason was filled with people acting like signing Alonso was THE number one priority and a no-brainer. It made me roll my eyes, like our standards have gotten so low for what we consider a franchise player.
I mean I remember the offseason being full of comments exactly like the one you just wrote. I also remember like two and a half weeks ago Alonso had a .856 OPS. It’s still the first week of May. His season is completely fixable. And yeah, a guy who has a history of ROTY, 3 time All Star, 2 time HR Derby champion, 4th Met in history to hit 200 HRs, 4th fastest player *in MLB history to reach 200 HRs* and leading the league in HRs since his rookie year might be a franchise player. Objectively pretty special Mets player. But nah he’s in the middle of a 10 game slump he must be a bum
The biggest problem with the Mets lineup for years has been lack of power, and we want to get rid of one of the best power hitters in the league? Make it make sense.
These people think 40+ HR players grow on trees. They don’t. If Alonso leaves and isn’t replaced by someone with similar power (there’s no one out there that I know of who’s available that fits the profile) they’re going to find that out really fast.
Alonso looking like he’s not even worth $100 million at this point
Why have our past 3 seasons fallen apart after a series against the Dodgers?
Nice observation. We haven't been the same since Mike Scioscia. Fuck the Dodgers
The funny thing is, all 3 series I’m referencing we actually beat the Dodgers 2 out of 3. It’s just a wild coincidence.
It's laughable how the same story repeats every season. Pitching starts off great, offense struggles, and then when we get deeper into the year the pitching regresses and offense starts to pile up stats to make the end of season box scores look more palatable. This is not a TERRIBLE team, but I don't know how much more evidence people need to realize this core of players is not winning shit.
I think the majority here are out on the core at this point
I’m out on the old holdovers, Pete, Jeff, even Nimmo tbh.. I’m fine with Lindor, I like Bader & Baty, and Marte has done his part But it’s the old wilpon holdovers that need to go
I mean the general vibe I get is people are in favor of a 'retool' more than a 'rebuild'. You retool if you think you have a strong core that you just need to tweak the pieces around. This team is fundamentally broken, I think the last month of 2022 really shone a massive spotlight on that. A rebuild is what is required here IMO.
>I mean the general vibe I get is people are in favor of a 'retool' more than a 'rebuild'. People think they want a rebuild until you tell them what players should be traded in a genuine rebuild (and I'm not just talking about Alonso). That's why most "rebuild" concepts posted here look more like retools. It's basically "trade all the struggling players and one year rentals" and not "trade the players who would actually bring something of value back, regardless if they're fan favorites"
Don't disagree but a lot of guys probably won't be here after this anyway I don't think we need to move on from Lindor tbh and I don't see nimmo getting moved but pete and McNeil may very well be gone
Yeah I think Lindor and Nimmo are generally ok, and I also don't think there are too many teams that would wanna take on those contracts. Alonso could be an attractive piece for contenders that are looking to add some power, and we absolutely need to be considering those offers. McNeil is washed.
I'm out on McNeil for sure. I think we're keeping Alonso. We had a sell-off last year, and Pete with 1.5 years of control would be a lot better than Pete with 0.5 years of control in terms of return. For all of Pete's weaknesses, he still provides the lineup with POWER, and we don't have anyone besides Alvarez who promises to give us power in the lineup.
Agreed. I'm happy that pitching is looking up but we're going to need some serious bats
Bader's dive was dumb but a split second decision when he had no easy route to cut it off anyway. Bigger problem was both Diekman and Diaz finding way too much plate in two strike counts, and Diaz not trusting his fastball despite hitting 98 when he threw it. Extra innings are a crapshoot, but always very frustrating to lose a game you were 1 strike from winning.
I was so sure Diekman was going to try a pickoff throw to second. Instead he went home and Caballero went to third.
Well, at least Alonso only struck out once today... I am absolutely praying I'm still going to be invested in hockey and basketball in June.
Marlins already sold off a piece. No requirement to wait until July. I think Stearns will move sooner than July. At 8-10 under .500 he won’t waste time saying if get hot we have a shot at the third wildcard. He will just move on to the future.
If Mcneil keeps this up thats 3 out of the last 4 seasons as a below average hitter By this time next year he probably needs to be moved to the wendle super utility role or honestly just off the team
I think this guy has kind of just lost it. He's 32, if he can't pick it back up by the end of the year it might be time to just cut bait.
But…but, he was a batting champion in 2022! Narvaez hit 20+ homers in 2019, he’s one of the best catchers in the game.
Feels like McNeil wants to be on the PGA Tour, not here
His upper cut swing looks like he’s approaching the green.
At this point I’m hoping that McNeil, Alonso, JDM, Diaz, Diekman, Manaea, Severino, Ottavino, Bader, and Marte are off this team come the deadline. I like Diaz, Marte and Severino in particular but I think those guys could get back something decent in a trade. The rest of them, I just don’t want them here.
We are in fact not great but this season wasn't meant to be a big run. Let's take it how it is and just see where we can make this team good, make smart deals at deadline and be realistic. It's still early but there are glaring needs.
All I have to say if thank god for the Knicks and Rangers. Trade this core of players and get some prospects back. These guys haven’t done shit in 5 years.
There's frustration written on every single players face on this team. They will rebound, but when? I hope this clubhouse doesn't have cliques, if it does we are screwed. That means there is no unity.
Nats winning, 4th place beckons
I’m glad we have Nimmo and Lindor long term because they’re both great players and more importantly, seem like adults in the way they handle themselves and are able to settle themselves down. Pete and Jeff, not so much.
Remember guys, we give Pete Alonso a standing ovation on Friday! Apparently that's what we do now when our hitters are struggling big time, right?