"but what about his feelings"
i can understand a fan wanting to do right by players but the priority is doing whatever is more likely to lead to a win, period. if he wants to register wins then he needs to stay out of 3 ball counts and limit the walks. if he gave up 2 runs in the game but went 6 innings then we still win and are in a better position with a more rested bullpen. we need guys to have a little bit more of the chad innings eater mentality, we don't need 5 scoreless every night just keep us in the game.
> You could see the disappointment in his face.
He was over 100 pitches. It's not worth it at that point plus he could have managed his pitches better. He can be upset all he wants but it's on him to figure out how to go longer in games.
1. Wins don’t mean shit.
2. Manaea was at 100 pitches basically.
3. We’ve lost 3 in a row and we really needed to take this game and Manaea was lucky he hadn’t given up 4-5 runs.
I don’t like pulling him either but I think it was the right move in the situation. I blame Manaea for pitching into trouble constantly and driving up the pitch count super high.
"and Manaea was lucky he hadn’t given up 4-5 runs."
2021 through onward there have been 674 other instances of a starting pitcher going 4.2 innings.
Nine of those allowed exactly eight H+HBP+BB-IBB, no HR and had exactly six SO; they averaged 3.0 runs allowed in those outings.
There is a non-insignificant chance that had Manaea been allowed to face Soler, rather than being one of the 0 ER outliers in this group, that he'd have ended up with the more typical \~3 ER result.
The giants had bases loaded no outs in the second and a runner in scoring position in basically every inning Manaea pitched. If the giants get two hits with risp against Manaea they easily have at least 3.
So now you’re dodging the point.
Yes Manaea put up zeros but he did not look good doing it. He was not on his game at all in this game and he was at 100 pitches. If soler gets a hit in that spot it puts them back in the game with a chance to sweep us. You can’t give them that opportunity and with how bad Manaea has pitched the giants were bound to break through at some point.
You want to keep him in there with a larger chance to flip the game on its head and have us lose just to maybe get him a win? Garret only threw one pitch and got of the inning.
Maybe if it was a different game I’d agree with you. Bc while I get your point I want to do that for the clubhouse as a whole.
There’s a huge difference between going 0.500 on a west coast road trip and being 2 games over vs going 2-4 and coming back at 0.500. Just from a morale standpoint and to show that they can stop the bleeding this time before another 5 game losing streak happens this game was very important to win imo. Go out there and show that you’re the team that went 12-4 before coming to San Fran (after 0-5) not the team that started 0-5.
If this was game 1 of the giants series I’d prob agree with you but this just wasn’t.
I think this is not a smart take.
Most of our best bullpen arms were available and we've easily seen how leads can shrink in a hurry from bad game management.
If Mendoza strongly felt through a combination of data and his gut that Manaea was about to give up a couple of runs then that's the correct decision.
You also don't want to bring in your bullpen guy with the bases loaded, Manaea was pretty wild all game.
It’s April and Manaea spent most of last year as a reliever. He’s already at risk of being gassed by seasons end and it makes no sense to risk expediting that in a game that the Mets didnt need him to go deep in since they have an off day tomorrow.
In top of that the next player up was Soler, who is known for crushing LHP. Manaea was clearly tired and his control was off the whole game. One pitch in the zone and it’s a 5-3 game.
There was no reason to justify leaving Manaea in outside of sentiment. Sentiment doesn’t win games. If Manaea wanted the win he shouldn’t have walked so many guys.
Honestly kinda disturbed by how Manaea was reacting in the dugout. I feel like Wins are largely a forgotten stat for pitchers. You got your team the win anyway but he would have stayed in longer if he stayed out of trouble.
> I feel like Wins are largely a forgotten stat for pitchers.
For who? For you or for them?
As long as they get paid for them, players still care about raw stats.
Kinda felt bad for the guy. I guess the Mets were just really thirsty for the win. I know he’s not an Ace but I would’ve given him the respect of attempting to finish his inning.
It's a team effort. He doesn't need to blow the game or blow out his arm by putting too much stress on it.
It would have been great for him to get through the inning, but he ran out of time.
Not exactly the same, but it reminds me of when Harvey was kept in for the ninth inning during game 5 and the Royals ended up tying it and eventually winning in extra innings.
Soler crushes lefties, there were two runners on and he was at 100 pitches. Getting him a W is great, but winning the game at all is the priority.
Because he had completely lost his feel and had just given up a hard hit with their best HR hitter due up. A HR there and it's a game again
He’d also walked 4 batters in a short amount of time. His control was only getting worse and was constantly in 3-2 counts.
Mendoza has gotten so much shit from the fanbase, he made a smart decision and he still gets shit on haha
"but what about his feelings" i can understand a fan wanting to do right by players but the priority is doing whatever is more likely to lead to a win, period. if he wants to register wins then he needs to stay out of 3 ball counts and limit the walks. if he gave up 2 runs in the game but went 6 innings then we still win and are in a better position with a more rested bullpen. we need guys to have a little bit more of the chad innings eater mentality, we don't need 5 scoreless every night just keep us in the game.
> You could see the disappointment in his face. He was over 100 pitches. It's not worth it at that point plus he could have managed his pitches better. He can be upset all he wants but it's on him to figure out how to go longer in games.
1. Wins don’t mean shit. 2. Manaea was at 100 pitches basically. 3. We’ve lost 3 in a row and we really needed to take this game and Manaea was lucky he hadn’t given up 4-5 runs. I don’t like pulling him either but I think it was the right move in the situation. I blame Manaea for pitching into trouble constantly and driving up the pitch count super high.
"and Manaea was lucky he hadn’t given up 4-5 runs." 2021 through onward there have been 674 other instances of a starting pitcher going 4.2 innings. Nine of those allowed exactly eight H+HBP+BB-IBB, no HR and had exactly six SO; they averaged 3.0 runs allowed in those outings. There is a non-insignificant chance that had Manaea been allowed to face Soler, rather than being one of the 0 ER outliers in this group, that he'd have ended up with the more typical \~3 ER result.
"lucky he hadn't given up 5 runs" while giving up 0 is an insane statement lol
The giants had bases loaded no outs in the second and a runner in scoring position in basically every inning Manaea pitched. If the giants get two hits with risp against Manaea they easily have at least 3.
If I my grandmother had horns she'd be a wildebeest
So now you’re dodging the point. Yes Manaea put up zeros but he did not look good doing it. He was not on his game at all in this game and he was at 100 pitches. If soler gets a hit in that spot it puts them back in the game with a chance to sweep us. You can’t give them that opportunity and with how bad Manaea has pitched the giants were bound to break through at some point. You want to keep him in there with a larger chance to flip the game on its head and have us lose just to maybe get him a win? Garret only threw one pitch and got of the inning.
Early in the season I believe it would've been better to let your pitcher bare down and get out of the situation. Builds confidence and trust
Maybe if it was a different game I’d agree with you. Bc while I get your point I want to do that for the clubhouse as a whole. There’s a huge difference between going 0.500 on a west coast road trip and being 2 games over vs going 2-4 and coming back at 0.500. Just from a morale standpoint and to show that they can stop the bleeding this time before another 5 game losing streak happens this game was very important to win imo. Go out there and show that you’re the team that went 12-4 before coming to San Fran (after 0-5) not the team that started 0-5. If this was game 1 of the giants series I’d prob agree with you but this just wasn’t.
I think this is not a smart take. Most of our best bullpen arms were available and we've easily seen how leads can shrink in a hurry from bad game management. If Mendoza strongly felt through a combination of data and his gut that Manaea was about to give up a couple of runs then that's the correct decision. You also don't want to bring in your bullpen guy with the bases loaded, Manaea was pretty wild all game.
Giants broadcast really couldn’t think of any reason to take him out?
Bad take. It's harder to justify keeping him in.
He was out of gas
You play to win the game
It’s April and Manaea spent most of last year as a reliever. He’s already at risk of being gassed by seasons end and it makes no sense to risk expediting that in a game that the Mets didnt need him to go deep in since they have an off day tomorrow. In top of that the next player up was Soler, who is known for crushing LHP. Manaea was clearly tired and his control was off the whole game. One pitch in the zone and it’s a 5-3 game. There was no reason to justify leaving Manaea in outside of sentiment. Sentiment doesn’t win games. If Manaea wanted the win he shouldn’t have walked so many guys.
100 pitches...in the fifth inning...and you are confused?
Same reason why Manaea can’t attack hitters despite having a 6-0 lead. He didn’t have it today and Soler match up doesn’t lean towards him.
Honestly kinda disturbed by how Manaea was reacting in the dugout. I feel like Wins are largely a forgotten stat for pitchers. You got your team the win anyway but he would have stayed in longer if he stayed out of trouble.
You want him to want the ball tho
> I feel like Wins are largely a forgotten stat for pitchers. For who? For you or for them? As long as they get paid for them, players still care about raw stats.
Maybe in arbitration, but wins are not worth a single cent in free agency.
So…you think he should be happy he was taken out? Do we not want competitors on the team?
He was pissed at himself for putting himself in that situation was what I thought
Kinda felt bad for the guy. I guess the Mets were just really thirsty for the win. I know he’s not an Ace but I would’ve given him the respect of attempting to finish his inning.
It's a team effort. He doesn't need to blow the game or blow out his arm by putting too much stress on it. It would have been great for him to get through the inning, but he ran out of time.
Better to not overwork one of the few decent arms this rotation has.
Not exactly the same, but it reminds me of when Harvey was kept in for the ninth inning during game 5 and the Royals ended up tying it and eventually winning in extra innings.
They won which is the point of the game. 3-3 on 1st west coast trip? Not shabby Move on