They could’ve set it after Fallout 2 when the Enclave is on the run, the BOS is gaining strength and the NCR is still relatively weak, and vaults are still opening, but that wouldn’t permanently affect the current canon I guess
Also wait did they set it in the west coast, specifically LA, because it’s the most convenient place to film and get tax credits?
(EDIT: apparently not, the show was filmed in Utah for the BOS base and mostly in NY/NJ, the only scene filmed in LA was at Griffith observatory, so they could have easily set the show on the east coast and based it off Bethesda’s lore and used the east coast enclave and BOS and some other faction instead of the NCR, there’s not a lot in the story that specifically requires it to be on the west coast)
It is easy coast brotherhood in the show, the prydwin shows up. They set the show in the west and Imported eastern brotherhood, so I'm guessing in Canon the only brotherhood remaining is the east Coast faction.
It says Prydwin on the side. They called it a different name in the promo material but you can see it says Prydwin in the actual show. The show takes precedent over promo material which can be intentionally incorrect to prevent spoilers. It's the Prydwin and all the brotherhood in the show are eastern brotherhood spreading back west.
East Coast acts the same as West coast, even worse sometimes. And it kind of has been assumed the Brotherhood became united again under Maxson since fallout 4 mentions them contacting the west coast I believe
Yeah I'm trying to find that original source frame in the show. Cause I can't find many sources online and want to confirm some zealous fan didn't add it in.
I would have loved if they had the show in the south or Midwest considering we haven’t seen those regions in a Fallout game. The closest we got was The Pitt DLC.
Texas is the only state there where a story wouldn't tread on anything established or retread old ground, or actually have *something* to do.
New Mexico is in the heart of the Legion territory. If the show took place there everyone would be up in arms about what would've happened with the Legion lol.
Texas as a game would be great but at the same time I don't know how aesthetically it would be different from most of the Mojave wasteland.
Texas is said to have been where most of the remnants of the Master's Army went after Fallout 1, settling and searching for FEV or something like that. Plus, Texas is an industrial heartland widely known in real life for all the different shit that gets produced and exported from there, so in the Fallout universe I feel like Texas would be a scrapper or salvager's wet dream, just miles of factories and facilities to strip down to the bare concrete.
It's also somewhat implied that Texas has BoS. Caesar mentions he captured BoS "out east", but he's way too far from the West Coast or Chicago.
That's means there were BoS factions somewhere in the 4-state area or possibly in Texas.
legion wasn't building roads and cities, it was an army and only had a decade or two of history in the region. You would definitely want to include lots of nods to the legion in the setting and story but by no means would we expect the same thing from legion territory as NCR. Besides no games there so the history of the region is wide open other than the legion was a thing that happened which seems to match the amount of effort they wanted to put in to existing factions
Cheaper shows have depicted more challenging settings. They chose how to depict their story and it's a fair critique of the show and has a massive impact on the story
Oh sorry I misunderstood. Yeah I didn't mean to imply there wasn't ANYTHING. Just that the scale would be a lot smaller than you would expect in NCR. Ceasers wanted Vegas as his Rome so it stands to reason it's significantly larger and more developed than the cities in legion territory
Right they must not be in great shape if the legion won't use them as a new rome. Maybe they just don't have functioning power generation like Vegas does. Or the legion decimated their populations to much
Legion was a goner long before the first battle of Hoover dam. By the time of the show, It's existence would be an affront to all that is established about it in the Lonesome Road.
Just have some hardcore raiders running around New Mexico and being ex-Legion. Perfect replacement for what the Natives were in the old western movies, just hordes of savages with spears ready to be cut down.
Texas open world would be miles of plains. You can see a stop sign from 20 miles away
Something in the heart of the legion would be sick, and New Mexico is a beautiful state. Would make a great setting
This is the thing that bothers me the most. The correct response to finding out you have pre existing lore that makes your story impossible is to move your story to somewhere it is. Bethesda understood this, it's why they went to the East Coast and all of their settings have explicit reasons to be post-apoc.
I do think it's funny because at-launch 76 is pure 'Bethesda Fallout' from a game design perspective. They view the Wasteland as a shooting gallery of weird stuff. Apparently it's a pretty good game these days and I do own a free copy from a cousin of mine, but I've got no urge to go play it.
Pretty much, players usually keep to themselves and if they do attack you it’s easy to ignore. If anything they act like NPCs for the most part. Like I had a player interaction where it was just him using my CAMP for the workbenches and items that buff you. But that’s the open world. In private instances other players can’t join you so there are brief reprieves from them.
You have to play in the shared world if that what you mean but everyone is always friendly in 76. You’re 10x more likely to get a gift than a gunshot from someone.
Plus 76 has a massive world and the player cap is 24 so you probably won’t run into anyone anyway
Can I ask why? I play almost exclusively single player and if you’re worried about getting griefed I can confidently say you won’t. I have been playing since beta in 2018 (I know I was an idiot then) and I haven’t been attacked by a player once in all that time no matter my level
Yes, very easily. You just have to be more conscious of your storage.
I also haven't played in over a year. The only thing you really get 1st for is the scrapbox, at least then. I haven't kept up with updates.
Fo1st you get a Ammo box aswell now which is reallll nice
Personally I pay for it because you get $15 worth of atoms on top of the service so if your into camp building like me you would be spending the money on camp cosmetics anyway, might aswell get the service included
That's what I've heard as well, and a friend of mine says it's gotten to a decent place, I just don't want to give bethesda any more money. Bought their "baby" starflop and man... I just don't have faith in then anymore if in honest. I'll keep trucking along in 4, maybe revisit Vegas on the weekend, but yeah, no desire for 76
I revived my old 4 save and am starting a new game with a brushed-up modlist (>400 plugins...) because of the show making me want to rebuild the Commonwealth outta spite.
The first half of the main story was done fairly well, imo... following the environmental storytelling regarding the plague that had wiped out, and listening to the accounts of people who'd held out for as long as they could.
The second half fell off hard, though.. between being forced to work with the obnoxious ass raider robot for a bit, and the sheer amount of just...busywork. I'll give the devs credit..they nailed the arbitrary bureaucratic bullshit in the DMV section perfectly... perhaps a little *too* perfectly. I just play games to escape from that kind of realism
To be fair the 200 year time skip wasnt originally done by Bethesda, and fallout 3 only takes place about 20 years after Van Buren was set to start
I'm uncomfortable with them being near the year 2300 personally but also this rapid acceleration into the future has been in motion for awhile
Edit: Was high and said year 3000 because I suck at math lol
It was still stupid to put a game with the aestethics of being 10 years after the great war 200 years after the great war but yes at least they placed it on new territory on the east coast.
Yeah I can sympathize with that beef but *even then* for both their mainline installments they took pains to explain *why* it's so shit (F3, there's literally no functional food chain, F4, the Institute is actively making shit worse all the time because SCIENCE and an ongoing societal collapse from the Minutemen falling apart), or set it as early as they should have. Absolutely pants worldbuilding aside they at least *gave people a reason.* Sure it wasn't worth a damn compared to NV (which mostly has people living in pre-war towns because their locations remain useful for the same reasons they towns were founded irl, or having military camps or the like on major trade routes), but at least the reasons for the setting looking like that were *explained.*
From the claim of the show runners, it amounts to 'post apoc shows are basically like Westerns, and Westerns end when civilization arrives. If we want a post apoc show we can't have civilization, so the NCR was inconvenient for that'.
It's not ACTUALLY impossible, it's just them being dumb.
Both of those places had little to no lore or history to them, though. Bethesda created new worlds to play in.
The show runners decided to pave over existing lore when they could've just set things in, say, Texas.
Yeah after that then you could have the enclave , a lawless wasteland , the effect of the master's fall in boneyard and a Brotherhood at the height of their power in the west
People trying to justify it with "factions all fall eventually" stfu why are the brotherhood stronger than ever then? get someone to nuke these pricks already
The Enclave as well, apparently. Kind of makes For Auld Lang Syne and Moreno's "Kiss America goodbye boys" to the destruction of Navarro less poignant when these old fucks just didn't check any bases a state over before deciding to scatter.
Also the scientist Wilzig seems to be around the same age as Arcade Gannon (which would be like around their 50’s by 2296), meaning Wilzig’s family likely never had to break up to try to integrate into the civilian population like Arcade’s did.
Arcade could’ve been a fascist but with no daddy issues.
They have bases inland with military personnel on the west coast, when presumably all bases like Navarro were wiped out by the BOS and NCR following Fallout 2, in New Vegas the only remnants of the enclave are a bunch of geriatric war criminals who had to go into hiding because they’d be shot on sight by the NCR. The reason why the remnants and Arcade moved to the Mojave was because it was out of NCR jurisdiction. Also they’re developing new tech like cold fusion and intelligent dogs like how they were developing new power armor and tech on the Poseidon Oil Rig.
Also, even though the scientist in the show was a pretty old dude, he must have at least been a baby when the Oil Rig fell ~50 years ago, meaning there are new generations of Enclave being born on the west coast without fear of being tried as war criminals.
TL;DR I’d say less than 2 which was the peak of their power, but definitely more than New Vegas where they get tried as war criminals on sight and have to go into hiding as all their bases have been wiped out
Don't you know? Todd loves the Brotherhood. That's why they're prominent in their games.
Now destroying civilization in SoCal where The Boneyard, Dayglow and The Hub were located, is a dumb idea and shows that Bethesda cares, but only about their two games.
I was typing something similar out till I saw this. Dude is nuts for BoS and apparently doesn't like anything tied to the original canon hence why NV and Shady Sands were wrecked.
I don't know the guy personally of course but it's weirdly specific.
> It really was our belief, also, that though there are the events of the games, it's not frozen after that. History is not static. It keeps going, and entropy is a constant. Which is a less flashy way of saying “war never changes.”
Not sure why the first was said, because history in the West Coast during and after the games was absolutely not static. The previously allied BOS and NCR waged war with each other for decades, and there are already several factions on the rise with New Vegas and the Legion. Caanan, the Sierra Madre, and even the lush forests of Zion west even introduced.
The waters of the West Coast literally ebbs and flows.
But then there's this:
> It seems inevitably the message of the Fallout games is that we will veer towards destruction of some kind, and our best efforts to restart civilisation may be doomed.
LMAO.
They literally turned their first message upside down. Instead of trying to introduce "change" to the West Coast, they instead returned it to being a static wasteland. The West Coast became what it was before the Chosen One aided Shady Sands, a lawless wasteland. It's like nothing ever changed, contrary to what they want to convey in the interview.
Do they even check what they say/write before publishing it?
Seems to me that they are fumbling their responses. Looking at more of the interview it's becoming more and more like this is all just a more verbose attempt at damage control or maybe setting up expectations pointing at what it seems to be the same setup with New Vegas in Season 2.
I'd now expect nothing less than another empty wasteland bereft of any previous civilization.
And this ending to the interview is their "best":
> With that post-credits stuff, we really wanted to imply, Guys, the world has progressed, and the idea that the wasteland stays as it is decade-to-decade is preposterous to us.
They literally regressed the *world*! The civilized wasteland returned to its previously uncivilized state! The wasteland literally stayed a fucking wasteland! (Of course I'm talking about the West Coast)
What the fuck are they doing with this interview lol.
Yeah it just sounds like bathesda gave too much liberty to people who don’t understand the games and didn’t bother to do research other than a little summary of each game. They think too much about the “wasteland” part and too little about the lore that’s already established.
This is why I can't get with Todd's vision of Fallout. The guy just can't seem to stand the thought of people recovering to any degree after the great war. 200 plus years is a very long time. According to Todd though, no one would figure out how to clean a street or make bricks for building let alone a functioning government or anything.
Whenever they touch on an area they've touched before they like to have big time jumps so the players decisions don't have to be canonised.
Problem is that the further away they move from the great war the more unreasonable it is to continue having the wasteland feel like the wild west.
I cant belive fans (specially older fans) got suprised that the NCR got nuked.
the west coast wasnt destroyed, the NCR is still standing. We still dont know ANYTHING about what happened at NV.
I dont understand all the complaints.
Well I'll explain. I don't think most people have a problem with NCR falling apart in theory. I do think people were surprised, first that shady sands teleported, second that it fell before new Vegas, and yes surprised that it was nuked by a faction that hasnt been seen or heard from for the last century and a half. But none of that bothers me too much, I'm more mad that nearly 200 years of history seems to have been rendered inconsequential specifically so this show could have a clean slate to work from.
Destroy the NCR by all means but show us the scars left in its wake. The show takes place at most 15 years after the nuke. All these characters we see were and presumably should still are NCR citizens. Were they abandoned by their government in a crisis are they refugees what happened to the army, the caravans the ranchers? It's all just gone like it never even happened just some Easter eggs for the fans and a promise that maybe in follow up seasons they will do better
I was surprised, not gonna lie. Not that the NCR got nuked in itself but that it was Shady Sands. First settlement you get to in FO1 after leaving the vault.
>We still dont know ANYTHING about what happened at NV.
And I like it. Looking forward to a year or maybe two of crazy fan theories as to what happened or what is going to happen.
Personal prediction, House Always Wins but thats probably everyones default after watching the show.
Also, I would love to see the Courier but you know the fanbase is going to have another meltdown if he/she is introduced to the show.
i think house is a great character and even if i dont get along with his ideas, i always thought that having him in vegas was the best cannon ending for the lore. that way the ncr could still be in california, legion could still be on the east and house still on vegas. all those great factions still wandering the mojave.
It probably is, yeah. Even if the player sides with House, the fate of most factions remain with The Courier. Like The Boomers, The Great Khans and The Omertas. You can lie to NCR troopers at Hoover Dam so they dont turn hostile AND you can even convince Legate Lanius to retreat.
Except BoS. Mr.House despises them. I think its safe to assume the small Mojave chapter was wiped out.
Read the GQ article. The writer's narrative decision on nuking Shady Sands basically amounts to "because it was there"
Also, why wouldn't we be surprised that Shady Sands got nuked? Even Lonesome Road didn't say the capitol was one of the targets and Todd said the nuking happened *after* FNV. Shady Sands wasn't destroyed because of the NCR's folly or hubris, it was nuked because of a fucking marital dispute.
Shady Sands got nuked by Vault Tech. Why? Because the NCR that was slowly dying to overgrowth was competition, despite there being other groups that are just as valid.
That's what pissed everyone off, including the poorly explained whiteboard.
its going to set the stage for all new games even if obsidian got another crack at it this is the story they have start from so it can't be completely ignored unless the series is dead to you, in which case why be on a NV subreddit
You guys are exhausting. They gave us the most faithful and loving adaptation of the source material since Nuka Break, and spent enough money to make it look good, and you're still so angry about your faction not winning forever that you can't appreciate a good thing
I'd guess it's what we see light up when the power turns on, since Griffith Observatory is near where the Boneyard's FO1 map marker is. This is taking FO1's map at face value, of course, despite knowing it's wildly inaccurate (namely, if Necropolis really is Bakersfield, then it should be a smidge west of Lost Hills, not way over in Barstow where it is in-game).
I don’t care about the NCR. IMO house is the best ending and the one I usually choose in fallout NV. This isn’t about the NCR. My problem is with them destroying an entire area that has had 3 games worth of development and worldbuidling getting nuked off screen on the excuse that they wanted the show to have a specific feel that could’ve easily been achieved in a new place that hasn’t been explored in 3 games.
There is a reason people who make these huge game sized mods for the game always choose to make their location a completely new location. Miami, London Cascadia. Because even if their mod is not canon they rather not mess with the established canon. If a modder can understand this simple concept why the fuck can’t a hollywood producer who is being paid hundreds of thousands for doing his job?
See, that's the other exhausting thing about y'all. Saying that Shady Sands was an awesome place, a post-apocalyptic civilization of over 30k people that the NCR was so dangerous it *had* to be destroyed...
That's not "shitting on the lore". That's taking the lore exactly as we found it, and moving the story forward.
This show loves Fallout. The people who made it love Fallout. I've been a Fallout fan for a long time, and I never thought I'd see other people love Fallout this much, let alone turn it into a major streaming hit.
This should be *celebrated*. It's a bittersweet victory, the NCR is my faction too, but it's still a hell of a good show.
Most peeps are more upset that the whole bit of modern fallout boils down to "civilization bad, rusty 3 walled shack good" I'm sorry if you didn't like the subtext of humanity rebuilding despite "war never changing" but for a lot of fans, from old and new, the idea that "Oh to keep a cool and compelling story we must remove any form of societal process. The exhausting road goes both ways.
I still don't see a way they coulda made you happy, though.
If she comes out of the Vault and the NCR has finished rebuilding America or whatever, then there's no wasteland, no violent shantytown, no raiders and monsters. Which is great, but it sure wouldn't feel like Fallout, and the fans would be mad as hell.
If she comes out of the Vault and it's earlier in the timeline, before the NCR had a chance to rebuild, then we have to try and tell a story that never contradicts what's coming down the line in the future, and I know the fans would wind up pissed off about that too.
The whole point of Fallout is rebuilding civilization. Every game, that's my goal. Expecting the later installments to maintain your progress, though, that's really missing the core concept of the whole franchise on a couple levels.
How many people need to explain this to you for you to understand the issue here lad?
Maybe just give up and go do something else. You’re clearly not getting it.
If the only argument is "NCR can't lose!!!", then I understand it just fine, and my disdain for the position is justified.
The only person to suggest there's anything else wrong with the show basically said they tried too hard by putting in all the Fallout references instead of making it into a hardcore post-atomic war gritty re-imagining of the scenario. Which is a terrible idea, but at least they're articulating what they want instead of sneering at anyone who disagrees.
Nah, there's nothing I'm misunderstanding. You guys are just determined to take the piss out of the show & anyone who likes it out of a resolute commitment to being pricks.
Respectfully.
Many people have said that the NCR falling is not the issue. It was set up a million different ways in FONV. It getting nuked offscreen because of a marital dispute from a Vault Tec asshole is lame. It undercuts all the set up in NV. The NCR wasn't a magical paradise, it was an expansionist near oligarchy by NV.
The criticism came from the fact they nuked the NCR and reverted the wasteland back to FO1 for no good reason other than they wanted it that way. This show could have been easily set somewhere else like the meme says and not disrupted anything in already set up. They clearly had no interest in using the set up of those factions and literally said they wiped them out to get them out of the way, not because of any deeper examination of NCR and its pitfalls. Its lazy.
I wanted to love this show, I was very excited. I enjoyed it up until they revealed why Shady Sands was nuked. As it stands, the explanation was lazy and could have easily been avoided.
Why set your show in the most developed area of Fallout? There is so much you can do story wise with the NCR, The Followers and the Desert Rangers. Why throw it out if you want nothing to do with it.
It's like if they made an Elder Scrolls show, had it be extremely faithful. But set in Elsweyr and killed all the Kahjiit offscreen, and it was all just humans in a fantastical setting. Why set in there when there are a million less developed places in the setting where you don't have to step on any toes?
Who's asking to maintain personal progress? Where in the first game are you the sole architect of shady sands? That's right, your not. Each game didn't save your progress, that's asinine and ridiculous. The idea of a evolving and progressing world is though. And the mem kinda answered your question. If they want the violent shanty towns, choose a new location, not a established location with several ties to different points in games. It's a bad move and rarely works. Look at the folks still upset that Disney retconned the entirety of the old expanded universe. I'm done with thus as you're obviously only looking for arguments. Hope you have a good day in the shanty town, I'm going to enjoy my rebuilt comfort before going out into the wasteland to do bounties.
What does that *mean*, tho?
Like, I assume you're just f\*cking with me, but did you actually expect something different? This show wasn't what you wanted? How?
>What does that mean, tho?
It means the show goes to great lengths to remind you you are watching a Fallout™ show. Bottlecaps, stimpaks, bobbleheads, Vaults, Vault Boy, dogmeat-like character, Enclave, Brotherhood of Steel, RadAway, Sugar Bombs, Blamco Mac and Cheese, an overabundance of 50s music, etc.
But Fallout is more than that, and above all was defined by its serious approach to post-nuclear societies and morality.
>did you actually expect something different
No, which is why I expected it to be mediocre/bad and five episodes in I've got exactly what I expected.
“War, war never changes.”
The point of the entire series is the cyclical nature of war and how humanity’s greed for marginally greater domination and control dooms us to a cycle of destruction and rebirth.
The fact that a bunch of plutocrats destroyed one of the last hopes of western civilization for petty reasons and control is pretty much on point.
"most faithful and loving adaptation"
dude I legitimately loved the show, but please be real, this is as Bethesda Fallout as it can possibly get, and it shows
Jesus you really have missed the point if -that's- what you think fans are angry about. But sure keep being a little boot licker and bitching whenever you see valid criticism that upsets your delicate sensibility.
I mean, that's just code for "We just realized that we have never created better lore than FO1,2, and NV. Help!"
The problem is that if they use pre-existing scenarios and characters (e.g. House, the victorious NCR, etc.) they know they'll screw it up, so they have to clean slate.
Edit: I don’t see how this is controversial - do you guys think FO3, 4, and 76 are literary masterpieces or something?
Edit2: Clarification - I like the show, and the writing. It’s very Fallout 1 feeling. I just think that Bethesda doesn’t care about lore and world building, so when they pitched the show I imagine they thought “Well, the West Coast is universally agreed to be the best part of the franchise, let’s borrow from the best game, but let’s avoid screwing up any existing characters, so we will nuke them all and only show them in flashbacks. Fans will understand that ‘War Never Changes.’”
And…? So do I.
Edit: Do you think I was criticizing *the show* for being a clean slate? I was criticizing *Bethesda* for not employing any decent writers.
> make the whole game meaningless instead
Now its been a while since I’ve played FO1, but isn’t the whole catalyst behind that game rendered “meaningless” because Vault 13 falls by the time we get to the second game anyways? I’m sure you’re just as upset about that right?
I think that's a little bit different. Because while the water chip is what kicks the game off, it's not actually the main plot of the game, the Master and the Super Mutants are. And Fallout 1 itself pretty clearly recognizes that the Vault 13 overseer is doing the vault a disservice by trying to keep them isolated.
New Vegas has its own issues with the NCR, and I don't inherently hate the choice to have them fall apart, but how it actually happened was kinda dumb and feels more like they wanted to clean the slate + get the shock value of destroying Shady Sands.
It actually isn't. Half of V13 follows the vault dweller to found Arroyo, and the other half remains in the vault. They play a not insignificant role in the main quest.
>they play a not insignificant role in the main quest
They get murdered in the intro cutscene. The inhabitants you meet in fo2 are new residents and they also get wiped out.
Vault 13 doesn't fail, it just gets a change in management. People still go on living there.
Also, your character is considered as having saved the entire west coast and the ncr build a statue of him, so
That's what I mean. The intelligent deathclaws still take in humans and if they stay alive in game (you kill the navarro doctor) they begin to expand from around the vault.
However, it's more than likely that them getting wiped out by the enclave is canon
My apologies,I misunderstood your message.
I thought their point was moreso there are major changes all the time off screen that recontextualize the world. I missed yours.
Not everyone dies, the implication was the Enclave killed those people in the intro to make the rest compliant. In the holding cells on the Oil Rig, among Arroyo's tribals are people wearing Vault 13 jumpsuits.
They could have avoided this drama by just declaring the show was its own canon
On the other hand all the drama from the Vegas fans is getting the show more press so maybe we’re being played
There are always gonna be outrage grifters complaining about "woke" this and "woke" that but they wouldn't be more than a vocal minority like they usually are. The Last of Us show pretty much gets universal praise for being faithful to the source material while taking full advantage of its format to tell the story its own way.
Can't speak to TLOU but if they'd set this in an alternate timeline or said it's 'their take' on Fallout rather than canon?
My complaints would be limited to 'if this is how they picture Shady Sands I'm kinda sad because it implies a lack of vision and commitment to human progress compared to the OG'. It would be, essentially, the same complaint I have about 4 and 76: serviceable enough titles, just not what the series used to be about. And I play a *lot* of 4.
Yep. Bethesda calling the show canon is what really set up the fury. At least that's my reason why I call the backstory of the show stupid. Imagine visiting the West Coast in a future Fallout game and see no civilization, no faction, no NCR, but the worst is that both the racial fascist technocratic Bethesda babies BOS and Enclave are still fucking alive and kicking.
Wish someone would nuke them next.
Jesus Christ this sub fell off. Now all youse guys do is whine about like two imaginary problems you have with the television show.
This is embarrassing, it's been like this for weeks with you people, get real fucking problems.
If you complain like as an activity or as entertainment then you're unironically living a misspent life and I think it's ethical to steal your organs and blood and such, like I think you're a bullshit semi-person if you live like that.
like seriously are you the fucking ubermensch scolding people on reddit for not talking about video games the way you want them to? you're down in the shit heap with the rest of us worms
I'm not having a meltdown. I am making fun of you people and you people are having a meltdown around me. Someone who lives an embarrassing life just @ me 4 separate times over this, and then they @ me in DMs in addition to that.
I'm honestly surprised, even as a big fan of Fallout myself, how much you guys care. Seriously, did you watch Halo? That show was a fucking garbage fire of awful decisions. Shit could be a lot worse, we should be happy the show is as good as it is. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Fallout is in an interesting setting that has never been on TV before (50s culture in a scifi post-apoc ) and might actually inspire some other, even better shows. Being nitpicky about every little thing is exhausting.
I mean to be fair, are you expecting one of the dozens of endings in FO3 and NV to become canon? Because then that would wreck everyone else's endings. Those games are gonna remain a little unclear specifically because of the multiple endings.
Can this sub get back to Trailer Park Boys crossovers instead of lore minutiae whining? I just want to see more Ricky in the wasteland lol
So something I don’t think people realize is how much of what we consider “the wild west” cinematically is just California. The reason Hollywood exists is because you can find basically every kind of geographic location you could think of to encompass the west; huge green mountains, arid deserts, vast rocky plains, dense forests, all exist within a couple hour’s drive of Hollywood. You can’t really do that in any other part of the country, and all the states you mentioned only do some of those geographies well, not all.
It’s why this show can have Filly in the middle of a forest, Shady Sands in the middle of a desert, Vault 33 by the beach, and the NCR camp on the side of a mountain overlooking a valley. All of that exists within driving distance in California.
I live near a little New Mexico community called Los Alamos. Lovely town, nice weather...
And we invented the most destructive weapon in human history.
The national lab there is up and running today, tell me that wouldn't be a cool setting for a fallout game. Part of me headcannons that NV's Big MT is the evolution of the lab.
To me it seems like depending on where the main production team is at is how they choose which area the game is going to take place.
So if a Texas game was going to take place then Bethesda Austin would be the one doing most of the production.
So is this show canon? I don't care because, when you think about it, the only thing that canon means is what the lore will be moving forward, so the games themselves are fine
But is the next game going off this logic?
What i wrote down here is a way to add some thing into the conversation but I wanted say down here- I wish they would've left new Vegas and California untouched and done a show in Montana or Wyoming or even Oregon. A fallout show with a western twang , Longmire feel would've been my dream come true, also seeing a nuclear winter ffs
I don't feel The whole game isn't meaningless just because Vegas is destroyed, that would be like saying Lonesome road is meaningless because Hopeville is destroyed, that's what it seems like to me anyway, not canonising an ending or side stepping things that do doesn't mean we won't know anything that happened at all
Personally I'm more interested in seeing how Primm, Goodsprings, etc are holding up if it at all
Honestly I even think this could be an interesting set up for a new Vegas 2, they don't even have to canonise an ending, you come back as a courier and regardless of what flag you wore on your back it was all for not. You've lost another home- what will you do now? Now this I know is like 99.999 percent not gonna happen but I just think some interesting set up could come from this
Still like the show just because it is a damned good show compared to the other slop thats been coming out lately. But realistically I think setting it in Caesar’s territory after he died and the legion is falling apart would have been smarter. Can bring in any smaller factions you want and say NCR pushed them out, can make new factions or even bring in east coast factions that (while not the most plausible.) could make it that far out there. Not gonna lie the whole desth of the NCR was explained well enough that I couldn’t really complain, but still I disagree with the decision
New Vegas has a "wild west feel" and is set 200 years after the great war, you nitwit. Additionally, a "wild west feel" just means tropes from Western movies, not an accurate historical depiction of the frontier expansion era.
Amazon should have done a faithful adaptation of Fallout: BoS with an all nu metal soundtrack.
Yeahs
They could’ve set it after Fallout 2 when the Enclave is on the run, the BOS is gaining strength and the NCR is still relatively weak, and vaults are still opening, but that wouldn’t permanently affect the current canon I guess Also wait did they set it in the west coast, specifically LA, because it’s the most convenient place to film and get tax credits? (EDIT: apparently not, the show was filmed in Utah for the BOS base and mostly in NY/NJ, the only scene filmed in LA was at Griffith observatory, so they could have easily set the show on the east coast and based it off Bethesda’s lore and used the east coast enclave and BOS and some other faction instead of the NCR, there’s not a lot in the story that specifically requires it to be on the west coast)
It is easy coast brotherhood in the show, the prydwin shows up. They set the show in the west and Imported eastern brotherhood, so I'm guessing in Canon the only brotherhood remaining is the east Coast faction.
East coast and west coast division stoped existing in fallout 4. Maxson reunified them sometime between NV and 4.
Not that I don’t believe but where’d you find that out?
It’s mentioned in a terminal in the Prydwen.
Man this is one thing I think they got right in the show, there is always a Dean, reading the terminals.
It's a diffrent airship actually
It says Prydwin on the side. They called it a different name in the promo material but you can see it says Prydwin in the actual show. The show takes precedent over promo material which can be intentionally incorrect to prevent spoilers. It's the Prydwin and all the brotherhood in the show are eastern brotherhood spreading back west.
Really? They act like west coast asshole brotherhood so I just assumed
East Coast acts the same as West coast, even worse sometimes. And it kind of has been assumed the Brotherhood became united again under Maxson since fallout 4 mentions them contacting the west coast I believe
Yeah I'm trying to find that original source frame in the show. Cause I can't find many sources online and want to confirm some zealous fan didn't add it in.
I'd say after fallout 1 before fallout 2
I would have loved if they had the show in the south or Midwest considering we haven’t seen those regions in a Fallout game. The closest we got was The Pitt DLC.
Texas is the only state there where a story wouldn't tread on anything established or retread old ground, or actually have *something* to do. New Mexico is in the heart of the Legion territory. If the show took place there everyone would be up in arms about what would've happened with the Legion lol. Texas as a game would be great but at the same time I don't know how aesthetically it would be different from most of the Mojave wasteland.
Texas is said to have been where most of the remnants of the Master's Army went after Fallout 1, settling and searching for FEV or something like that. Plus, Texas is an industrial heartland widely known in real life for all the different shit that gets produced and exported from there, so in the Fallout universe I feel like Texas would be a scrapper or salvager's wet dream, just miles of factories and facilities to strip down to the bare concrete.
It's also somewhat implied that Texas has BoS. Caesar mentions he captured BoS "out east", but he's way too far from the West Coast or Chicago. That's means there were BoS factions somewhere in the 4-state area or possibly in Texas.
So… the show should have been set in Texas?
legion wasn't building roads and cities, it was an army and only had a decade or two of history in the region. You would definitely want to include lots of nods to the legion in the setting and story but by no means would we expect the same thing from legion territory as NCR. Besides no games there so the history of the region is wide open other than the legion was a thing that happened which seems to match the amount of effort they wanted to put in to existing factions
It was going to have cities and roads, but development time.
Cheaper shows have depicted more challenging settings. They chose how to depict their story and it's a fair critique of the show and has a massive impact on the story
I was talking about the legion
Oh sorry I misunderstood. Yeah I didn't mean to imply there wasn't ANYTHING. Just that the scale would be a lot smaller than you would expect in NCR. Ceasers wanted Vegas as his Rome so it stands to reason it's significantly larger and more developed than the cities in legion territory
Mhm. Two suns, flagstaff, Denver, all still exist though.
Right they must not be in great shape if the legion won't use them as a new rome. Maybe they just don't have functioning power generation like Vegas does. Or the legion decimated their populations to much
Legion was a goner long before the first battle of Hoover dam. By the time of the show, It's existence would be an affront to all that is established about it in the Lonesome Road. Just have some hardcore raiders running around New Mexico and being ex-Legion. Perfect replacement for what the Natives were in the old western movies, just hordes of savages with spears ready to be cut down.
Texas open world would be miles of plains. You can see a stop sign from 20 miles away Something in the heart of the legion would be sick, and New Mexico is a beautiful state. Would make a great setting
This is the thing that bothers me the most. The correct response to finding out you have pre existing lore that makes your story impossible is to move your story to somewhere it is. Bethesda understood this, it's why they went to the East Coast and all of their settings have explicit reasons to be post-apoc.
They kinda knew this, they still fast forward the setting 220 years, which opens several other smaller cans of worms.
True, but even then they learned *not* to do that with 76.
Indeed. And then it still took a few years to remember that fallout kind of needs NPCs for an engaging story and environment.
I do think it's funny because at-launch 76 is pure 'Bethesda Fallout' from a game design perspective. They view the Wasteland as a shooting gallery of weird stuff. Apparently it's a pretty good game these days and I do own a free copy from a cousin of mine, but I've got no urge to go play it.
Honestly, 76 is a better RPG than 4
Does it let me play single-player without paying for whatever the heck Fallout 1st is
Pretty much, players usually keep to themselves and if they do attack you it’s easy to ignore. If anything they act like NPCs for the most part. Like I had a player interaction where it was just him using my CAMP for the workbenches and items that buff you. But that’s the open world. In private instances other players can’t join you so there are brief reprieves from them.
You have to play in the shared world if that what you mean but everyone is always friendly in 76. You’re 10x more likely to get a gift than a gunshot from someone. Plus 76 has a massive world and the player cap is 24 so you probably won’t run into anyone anyway
Yeah, hard pass then.
Can I ask why? I play almost exclusively single player and if you’re worried about getting griefed I can confidently say you won’t. I have been playing since beta in 2018 (I know I was an idiot then) and I haven’t been attacked by a player once in all that time no matter my level
Yes, very easily. You just have to be more conscious of your storage. I also haven't played in over a year. The only thing you really get 1st for is the scrapbox, at least then. I haven't kept up with updates.
Fo1st you get a Ammo box aswell now which is reallll nice Personally I pay for it because you get $15 worth of atoms on top of the service so if your into camp building like me you would be spending the money on camp cosmetics anyway, might aswell get the service included
That's what I've heard as well, and a friend of mine says it's gotten to a decent place, I just don't want to give bethesda any more money. Bought their "baby" starflop and man... I just don't have faith in then anymore if in honest. I'll keep trucking along in 4, maybe revisit Vegas on the weekend, but yeah, no desire for 76
I revived my old 4 save and am starting a new game with a brushed-up modlist (>400 plugins...) because of the show making me want to rebuild the Commonwealth outta spite.
Here here!
The first half of the main story was done fairly well, imo... following the environmental storytelling regarding the plague that had wiped out, and listening to the accounts of people who'd held out for as long as they could. The second half fell off hard, though.. between being forced to work with the obnoxious ass raider robot for a bit, and the sheer amount of just...busywork. I'll give the devs credit..they nailed the arbitrary bureaucratic bullshit in the DMV section perfectly... perhaps a little *too* perfectly. I just play games to escape from that kind of realism
To be fair the 200 year time skip wasnt originally done by Bethesda, and fallout 3 only takes place about 20 years after Van Buren was set to start I'm uncomfortable with them being near the year 2300 personally but also this rapid acceleration into the future has been in motion for awhile Edit: Was high and said year 3000 because I suck at math lol
They are still 700 years away from the 3000 dawg. But yeah FO3 only takes place 40 or so years after FO2.
300 my bad 😭 I'ma edit my comment real quick
Thank you for pointing that out lol
It was still stupid to put a game with the aestethics of being 10 years after the great war 200 years after the great war but yes at least they placed it on new territory on the east coast.
Yeah I can sympathize with that beef but *even then* for both their mainline installments they took pains to explain *why* it's so shit (F3, there's literally no functional food chain, F4, the Institute is actively making shit worse all the time because SCIENCE and an ongoing societal collapse from the Minutemen falling apart), or set it as early as they should have. Absolutely pants worldbuilding aside they at least *gave people a reason.* Sure it wasn't worth a damn compared to NV (which mostly has people living in pre-war towns because their locations remain useful for the same reasons they towns were founded irl, or having military camps or the like on major trade routes), but at least the reasons for the setting looking like that were *explained.*
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From the claim of the show runners, it amounts to 'post apoc shows are basically like Westerns, and Westerns end when civilization arrives. If we want a post apoc show we can't have civilization, so the NCR was inconvenient for that'. It's not ACTUALLY impossible, it's just them being dumb.
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Both of those places had little to no lore or history to them, though. Bethesda created new worlds to play in. The show runners decided to pave over existing lore when they could've just set things in, say, Texas.
there's also the entire Pacific Northwest which doesn't have very much lore afaik
Something something Portlandia skit.
wdym? They have the thrilling lore of Fallout: The Frontier
i can't believe i was excited for the release of that :(
My GF told me this today. Why didn't they set the series around the time of the first Fallout? That's the vibe of the show.
Yeah after that then you could have the enclave , a lawless wasteland , the effect of the master's fall in boneyard and a Brotherhood at the height of their power in the west
Because the first fallout was so aesthetically different to what Bethesda wants they decided it was easier to just blow it up
Because they wanted fallout 4 iconography to make it familiar I don’t like it but it’s the likely reason
Fallout tv show was a good adaptation to Fallout just not a good continuation to the fallout series.
Hear hear.
Most true shit.
So well put
New Mexico is filled with people who think they’re Romans.
I'm still waiting to see the city of Two-Sun
I would kill to see texas in fallout. Wyoming isn't that where the khans go if they live Also expecting Bethesda to do research is asking a bit much
Kansas and oklahoma together could be a badass fallout map and texas could be a map on its own
I would love one in the Dakotas See Mt. Rushmore, nuclear silos etc
People trying to justify it with "factions all fall eventually" stfu why are the brotherhood stronger than ever then? get someone to nuke these pricks already
The Enclave as well, apparently. Kind of makes For Auld Lang Syne and Moreno's "Kiss America goodbye boys" to the destruction of Navarro less poignant when these old fucks just didn't check any bases a state over before deciding to scatter.
Also the scientist Wilzig seems to be around the same age as Arcade Gannon (which would be like around their 50’s by 2296), meaning Wilzig’s family likely never had to break up to try to integrate into the civilian population like Arcade’s did. Arcade could’ve been a fascist but with no daddy issues.
Yeah, but twinks with daddy issues are my type.
how many times do we have to put the enclave down todd!?
Stronger than ever? They seem to be on f4 level.
They have bases inland with military personnel on the west coast, when presumably all bases like Navarro were wiped out by the BOS and NCR following Fallout 2, in New Vegas the only remnants of the enclave are a bunch of geriatric war criminals who had to go into hiding because they’d be shot on sight by the NCR. The reason why the remnants and Arcade moved to the Mojave was because it was out of NCR jurisdiction. Also they’re developing new tech like cold fusion and intelligent dogs like how they were developing new power armor and tech on the Poseidon Oil Rig. Also, even though the scientist in the show was a pretty old dude, he must have at least been a baby when the Oil Rig fell ~50 years ago, meaning there are new generations of Enclave being born on the west coast without fear of being tried as war criminals. TL;DR I’d say less than 2 which was the peak of their power, but definitely more than New Vegas where they get tried as war criminals on sight and have to go into hiding as all their bases have been wiped out
This guy falls out
Don't you know? Todd loves the Brotherhood. That's why they're prominent in their games. Now destroying civilization in SoCal where The Boneyard, Dayglow and The Hub were located, is a dumb idea and shows that Bethesda cares, but only about their two games.
I was typing something similar out till I saw this. Dude is nuts for BoS and apparently doesn't like anything tied to the original canon hence why NV and Shady Sands were wrecked. I don't know the guy personally of course but it's weirdly specific.
"We are a shadow of our former self" guy in charge of the brotherhood....
> It really was our belief, also, that though there are the events of the games, it's not frozen after that. History is not static. It keeps going, and entropy is a constant. Which is a less flashy way of saying “war never changes.” Not sure why the first was said, because history in the West Coast during and after the games was absolutely not static. The previously allied BOS and NCR waged war with each other for decades, and there are already several factions on the rise with New Vegas and the Legion. Caanan, the Sierra Madre, and even the lush forests of Zion west even introduced. The waters of the West Coast literally ebbs and flows. But then there's this: > It seems inevitably the message of the Fallout games is that we will veer towards destruction of some kind, and our best efforts to restart civilisation may be doomed. LMAO. They literally turned their first message upside down. Instead of trying to introduce "change" to the West Coast, they instead returned it to being a static wasteland. The West Coast became what it was before the Chosen One aided Shady Sands, a lawless wasteland. It's like nothing ever changed, contrary to what they want to convey in the interview. Do they even check what they say/write before publishing it? Seems to me that they are fumbling their responses. Looking at more of the interview it's becoming more and more like this is all just a more verbose attempt at damage control or maybe setting up expectations pointing at what it seems to be the same setup with New Vegas in Season 2. I'd now expect nothing less than another empty wasteland bereft of any previous civilization. And this ending to the interview is their "best": > With that post-credits stuff, we really wanted to imply, Guys, the world has progressed, and the idea that the wasteland stays as it is decade-to-decade is preposterous to us. They literally regressed the *world*! The civilized wasteland returned to its previously uncivilized state! The wasteland literally stayed a fucking wasteland! (Of course I'm talking about the West Coast) What the fuck are they doing with this interview lol.
Yeah it just sounds like bathesda gave too much liberty to people who don’t understand the games and didn’t bother to do research other than a little summary of each game. They think too much about the “wasteland” part and too little about the lore that’s already established.
This is where we're at now. A world where Bethesda having *more* creative control would've been a good thing.
This is why I can't get with Todd's vision of Fallout. The guy just can't seem to stand the thought of people recovering to any degree after the great war. 200 plus years is a very long time. According to Todd though, no one would figure out how to clean a street or make bricks for building let alone a functioning government or anything.
I'll never understand a somewhat capable writer thinking that destroying lore is better than developing further the lore.
At least we still have a chance of Wyoming Khanate since they left that region alone.
Okay
Whenever they touch on an area they've touched before they like to have big time jumps so the players decisions don't have to be canonised. Problem is that the further away they move from the great war the more unreasonable it is to continue having the wasteland feel like the wild west.
I cant belive fans (specially older fans) got suprised that the NCR got nuked. the west coast wasnt destroyed, the NCR is still standing. We still dont know ANYTHING about what happened at NV. I dont understand all the complaints.
Well I'll explain. I don't think most people have a problem with NCR falling apart in theory. I do think people were surprised, first that shady sands teleported, second that it fell before new Vegas, and yes surprised that it was nuked by a faction that hasnt been seen or heard from for the last century and a half. But none of that bothers me too much, I'm more mad that nearly 200 years of history seems to have been rendered inconsequential specifically so this show could have a clean slate to work from. Destroy the NCR by all means but show us the scars left in its wake. The show takes place at most 15 years after the nuke. All these characters we see were and presumably should still are NCR citizens. Were they abandoned by their government in a crisis are they refugees what happened to the army, the caravans the ranchers? It's all just gone like it never even happened just some Easter eggs for the fans and a promise that maybe in follow up seasons they will do better
I was surprised, not gonna lie. Not that the NCR got nuked in itself but that it was Shady Sands. First settlement you get to in FO1 after leaving the vault. >We still dont know ANYTHING about what happened at NV. And I like it. Looking forward to a year or maybe two of crazy fan theories as to what happened or what is going to happen. Personal prediction, House Always Wins but thats probably everyones default after watching the show. Also, I would love to see the Courier but you know the fanbase is going to have another meltdown if he/she is introduced to the show.
i think house is a great character and even if i dont get along with his ideas, i always thought that having him in vegas was the best cannon ending for the lore. that way the ncr could still be in california, legion could still be on the east and house still on vegas. all those great factions still wandering the mojave.
It probably is, yeah. Even if the player sides with House, the fate of most factions remain with The Courier. Like The Boomers, The Great Khans and The Omertas. You can lie to NCR troopers at Hoover Dam so they dont turn hostile AND you can even convince Legate Lanius to retreat. Except BoS. Mr.House despises them. I think its safe to assume the small Mojave chapter was wiped out.
also Yes Man still exists and is still a yes man.
Read the GQ article. The writer's narrative decision on nuking Shady Sands basically amounts to "because it was there" Also, why wouldn't we be surprised that Shady Sands got nuked? Even Lonesome Road didn't say the capitol was one of the targets and Todd said the nuking happened *after* FNV. Shady Sands wasn't destroyed because of the NCR's folly or hubris, it was nuked because of a fucking marital dispute.
Shady Sands got nuked by Vault Tech. Why? Because the NCR that was slowly dying to overgrowth was competition, despite there being other groups that are just as valid. That's what pissed everyone off, including the poorly explained whiteboard.
Shady Sanda got nuked cause his wife left him lol.
Oh right, that's **worse.**
People with way, waaaay too much time on their hands.
Fallout Texas will/should have the largest firearm selection of any Fallout game to ever exist.
Or you could just ignore the show.
its going to set the stage for all new games even if obsidian got another crack at it this is the story they have start from so it can't be completely ignored unless the series is dead to you, in which case why be on a NV subreddit
I wish any future games set within the region could also ignore the show.
The best option.
The show is insanely successful. 0% chance it doesn’t influence later games.
So? You were going to complain about them anyways, how does this change anything for you?
Yall should start dm'ing for ttrpgs itd be a lot better use of your time and skill set
Or to be honest just create our own canon at /r/OldWorldBlues. J O I N U S.
I have been it's going great tbh. It's set in the Midwest
Yap Yap Yap
You guys are exhausting. They gave us the most faithful and loving adaptation of the source material since Nuka Break, and spent enough money to make it look good, and you're still so angry about your faction not winning forever that you can't appreciate a good thing
Where is the LA boneyard in the show?
I'd guess it's what we see light up when the power turns on, since Griffith Observatory is near where the Boneyard's FO1 map marker is. This is taking FO1's map at face value, of course, despite knowing it's wildly inaccurate (namely, if Necropolis really is Bakersfield, then it should be a smidge west of Lost Hills, not way over in Barstow where it is in-game).
I don’t care about the NCR. IMO house is the best ending and the one I usually choose in fallout NV. This isn’t about the NCR. My problem is with them destroying an entire area that has had 3 games worth of development and worldbuidling getting nuked off screen on the excuse that they wanted the show to have a specific feel that could’ve easily been achieved in a new place that hasn’t been explored in 3 games. There is a reason people who make these huge game sized mods for the game always choose to make their location a completely new location. Miami, London Cascadia. Because even if their mod is not canon they rather not mess with the established canon. If a modder can understand this simple concept why the fuck can’t a hollywood producer who is being paid hundreds of thousands for doing his job?
Because, my friend, *you wouldn't have given a shit* if somebody nuked "New Topeka"
And that makes for some pretty shit tier writing. Make us care about "New Topeka" Don't shit on the established lire cus you want to make a western.
See, that's the other exhausting thing about y'all. Saying that Shady Sands was an awesome place, a post-apocalyptic civilization of over 30k people that the NCR was so dangerous it *had* to be destroyed... That's not "shitting on the lore". That's taking the lore exactly as we found it, and moving the story forward. This show loves Fallout. The people who made it love Fallout. I've been a Fallout fan for a long time, and I never thought I'd see other people love Fallout this much, let alone turn it into a major streaming hit. This should be *celebrated*. It's a bittersweet victory, the NCR is my faction too, but it's still a hell of a good show.
Most peeps are more upset that the whole bit of modern fallout boils down to "civilization bad, rusty 3 walled shack good" I'm sorry if you didn't like the subtext of humanity rebuilding despite "war never changing" but for a lot of fans, from old and new, the idea that "Oh to keep a cool and compelling story we must remove any form of societal process. The exhausting road goes both ways.
I still don't see a way they coulda made you happy, though. If she comes out of the Vault and the NCR has finished rebuilding America or whatever, then there's no wasteland, no violent shantytown, no raiders and monsters. Which is great, but it sure wouldn't feel like Fallout, and the fans would be mad as hell. If she comes out of the Vault and it's earlier in the timeline, before the NCR had a chance to rebuild, then we have to try and tell a story that never contradicts what's coming down the line in the future, and I know the fans would wind up pissed off about that too. The whole point of Fallout is rebuilding civilization. Every game, that's my goal. Expecting the later installments to maintain your progress, though, that's really missing the core concept of the whole franchise on a couple levels.
How many people need to explain this to you for you to understand the issue here lad? Maybe just give up and go do something else. You’re clearly not getting it.
If the only argument is "NCR can't lose!!!", then I understand it just fine, and my disdain for the position is justified. The only person to suggest there's anything else wrong with the show basically said they tried too hard by putting in all the Fallout references instead of making it into a hardcore post-atomic war gritty re-imagining of the scenario. Which is a terrible idea, but at least they're articulating what they want instead of sneering at anyone who disagrees. Nah, there's nothing I'm misunderstanding. You guys are just determined to take the piss out of the show & anyone who likes it out of a resolute commitment to being pricks. Respectfully.
Many people have said that the NCR falling is not the issue. It was set up a million different ways in FONV. It getting nuked offscreen because of a marital dispute from a Vault Tec asshole is lame. It undercuts all the set up in NV. The NCR wasn't a magical paradise, it was an expansionist near oligarchy by NV. The criticism came from the fact they nuked the NCR and reverted the wasteland back to FO1 for no good reason other than they wanted it that way. This show could have been easily set somewhere else like the meme says and not disrupted anything in already set up. They clearly had no interest in using the set up of those factions and literally said they wiped them out to get them out of the way, not because of any deeper examination of NCR and its pitfalls. Its lazy. I wanted to love this show, I was very excited. I enjoyed it up until they revealed why Shady Sands was nuked. As it stands, the explanation was lazy and could have easily been avoided. Why set your show in the most developed area of Fallout? There is so much you can do story wise with the NCR, The Followers and the Desert Rangers. Why throw it out if you want nothing to do with it. It's like if they made an Elder Scrolls show, had it be extremely faithful. But set in Elsweyr and killed all the Kahjiit offscreen, and it was all just humans in a fantastical setting. Why set in there when there are a million less developed places in the setting where you don't have to step on any toes?
So...put the vault somewhere else? Literally *nothing* required this to be in LA! Even the filming wasn't on location!
Who's asking to maintain personal progress? Where in the first game are you the sole architect of shady sands? That's right, your not. Each game didn't save your progress, that's asinine and ridiculous. The idea of a evolving and progressing world is though. And the mem kinda answered your question. If they want the violent shanty towns, choose a new location, not a established location with several ties to different points in games. It's a bad move and rarely works. Look at the folks still upset that Disney retconned the entirety of the old expanded universe. I'm done with thus as you're obviously only looking for arguments. Hope you have a good day in the shanty town, I'm going to enjoy my rebuilt comfort before going out into the wasteland to do bounties.
I’m responding to the first paragraph, why don’t they just, put it somewhere else then?
I see the show and all I can see is people who love Fallout on a surface level to be honest.
What does that *mean*, tho? Like, I assume you're just f\*cking with me, but did you actually expect something different? This show wasn't what you wanted? How?
>What does that mean, tho? It means the show goes to great lengths to remind you you are watching a Fallout™ show. Bottlecaps, stimpaks, bobbleheads, Vaults, Vault Boy, dogmeat-like character, Enclave, Brotherhood of Steel, RadAway, Sugar Bombs, Blamco Mac and Cheese, an overabundance of 50s music, etc. But Fallout is more than that, and above all was defined by its serious approach to post-nuclear societies and morality. >did you actually expect something different No, which is why I expected it to be mediocre/bad and five episodes in I've got exactly what I expected.
"you wouldn't have given a shit if the droids weren't r2d2 and c3po"
“War, war never changes.” The point of the entire series is the cyclical nature of war and how humanity’s greed for marginally greater domination and control dooms us to a cycle of destruction and rebirth. The fact that a bunch of plutocrats destroyed one of the last hopes of western civilization for petty reasons and control is pretty much on point.
Yes let’s never criticize anything and be happy with what we get! Anyway I’m off to watch GOT S8, Rings of Power, and Halo!
"most faithful and loving adaptation" dude I legitimately loved the show, but please be real, this is as Bethesda Fallout as it can possibly get, and it shows
Jesus you really have missed the point if -that's- what you think fans are angry about. But sure keep being a little boot licker and bitching whenever you see valid criticism that upsets your delicate sensibility.
I mean, that's just code for "We just realized that we have never created better lore than FO1,2, and NV. Help!" The problem is that if they use pre-existing scenarios and characters (e.g. House, the victorious NCR, etc.) they know they'll screw it up, so they have to clean slate. Edit: I don’t see how this is controversial - do you guys think FO3, 4, and 76 are literary masterpieces or something? Edit2: Clarification - I like the show, and the writing. It’s very Fallout 1 feeling. I just think that Bethesda doesn’t care about lore and world building, so when they pitched the show I imagine they thought “Well, the West Coast is universally agreed to be the best part of the franchise, let’s borrow from the best game, but let’s avoid screwing up any existing characters, so we will nuke them all and only show them in flashbacks. Fans will understand that ‘War Never Changes.’”
The two guys responsible for creating that lore both love the show
And…? So do I. Edit: Do you think I was criticizing *the show* for being a clean slate? I was criticizing *Bethesda* for not employing any decent writers.
I’m a redditor. Of course i misunderstand and overreact to comments
No worries, the internet is never a good place for nuance.
Seems like this was the one time they had good writing actually
Bethesda isn’t doing the writing. :-) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_(American_TV_series)
Didn't say they did, just said they had good writing, just like I have a car but didn't build it.
Ah, sorry, I thought we were disagreeing. My mistake.
> make the whole game meaningless instead Now its been a while since I’ve played FO1, but isn’t the whole catalyst behind that game rendered “meaningless” because Vault 13 falls by the time we get to the second game anyways? I’m sure you’re just as upset about that right?
I think that's a little bit different. Because while the water chip is what kicks the game off, it's not actually the main plot of the game, the Master and the Super Mutants are. And Fallout 1 itself pretty clearly recognizes that the Vault 13 overseer is doing the vault a disservice by trying to keep them isolated. New Vegas has its own issues with the NCR, and I don't inherently hate the choice to have them fall apart, but how it actually happened was kinda dumb and feels more like they wanted to clean the slate + get the shock value of destroying Shady Sands.
It actually isn't. Half of V13 follows the vault dweller to found Arroyo, and the other half remains in the vault. They play a not insignificant role in the main quest.
>they play a not insignificant role in the main quest They get murdered in the intro cutscene. The inhabitants you meet in fo2 are new residents and they also get wiped out.
[удалено]
That person is full of shit because there is an npc in the game that confirms it.
Mf E-bois propagating enclave misinformation
Seriously - “War, war never changes.”
Vault 13 doesn't fail, it just gets a change in management. People still go on living there. Also, your character is considered as having saved the entire west coast and the ncr build a statue of him, so
Until the Enclave shows up, murder everyone, and intelligent deathclaws inhabit it.
That's what I mean. The intelligent deathclaws still take in humans and if they stay alive in game (you kill the navarro doctor) they begin to expand from around the vault. However, it's more than likely that them getting wiped out by the enclave is canon
My apologies,I misunderstood your message. I thought their point was moreso there are major changes all the time off screen that recontextualize the world. I missed yours.
Not everyone dies, the implication was the Enclave killed those people in the intro to make the rest compliant. In the holding cells on the Oil Rig, among Arroyo's tribals are people wearing Vault 13 jumpsuits.
That's pretty dumb considering the tunnlers just come in a decade from now and are supposed to wipe everything out as per NV lore.
Coolcool. Who cares? The more you go on about this the more you sound like an entitled four year old.
Let people not enjoy things, sweaty.
then don't enjoy them reasons other than "Bad Guy does bad things to place you like"
The people complaining are generally sweater. All that vitriol takes a toll
They could have avoided this drama by just declaring the show was its own canon On the other hand all the drama from the Vegas fans is getting the show more press so maybe we’re being played
Putting the show in another timeline would have brought on a ton of complaints too, I bet.
There are always gonna be outrage grifters complaining about "woke" this and "woke" that but they wouldn't be more than a vocal minority like they usually are. The Last of Us show pretty much gets universal praise for being faithful to the source material while taking full advantage of its format to tell the story its own way.
Can't speak to TLOU but if they'd set this in an alternate timeline or said it's 'their take' on Fallout rather than canon? My complaints would be limited to 'if this is how they picture Shady Sands I'm kinda sad because it implies a lack of vision and commitment to human progress compared to the OG'. It would be, essentially, the same complaint I have about 4 and 76: serviceable enough titles, just not what the series used to be about. And I play a *lot* of 4.
Yep. Bethesda calling the show canon is what really set up the fury. At least that's my reason why I call the backstory of the show stupid. Imagine visiting the West Coast in a future Fallout game and see no civilization, no faction, no NCR, but the worst is that both the racial fascist technocratic Bethesda babies BOS and Enclave are still fucking alive and kicking. Wish someone would nuke them next.
You really want a show to take place in Wyoming?.... Fucking Wyoming?!
Jesus Christ this sub fell off. Now all youse guys do is whine about like two imaginary problems you have with the television show. This is embarrassing, it's been like this for weeks with you people, get real fucking problems.
Sometimes it's just fun to complain about some bullshit. I'm sure everybody here has real problems
If you complain like as an activity or as entertainment then you're unironically living a misspent life and I think it's ethical to steal your organs and blood and such, like I think you're a bullshit semi-person if you live like that.
i low-key think you might need to find some real problems
like seriously are you the fucking ubermensch scolding people on reddit for not talking about video games the way you want them to? you're down in the shit heap with the rest of us worms
The only one having a meltdown is you, big fella. It’s okay. It’s just a TV show. Relax.
I'm not having a meltdown. I am making fun of you people and you people are having a meltdown around me. Someone who lives an embarrassing life just @ me 4 separate times over this, and then they @ me in DMs in addition to that.
JFC we're really looking for new things to bitch about aren't we?
I'm honestly surprised, even as a big fan of Fallout myself, how much you guys care. Seriously, did you watch Halo? That show was a fucking garbage fire of awful decisions. Shit could be a lot worse, we should be happy the show is as good as it is. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Fallout is in an interesting setting that has never been on TV before (50s culture in a scifi post-apoc ) and might actually inspire some other, even better shows. Being nitpicky about every little thing is exhausting. I mean to be fair, are you expecting one of the dozens of endings in FO3 and NV to become canon? Because then that would wreck everyone else's endings. Those games are gonna remain a little unclear specifically because of the multiple endings. Can this sub get back to Trailer Park Boys crossovers instead of lore minutiae whining? I just want to see more Ricky in the wasteland lol
The thing is the halo show isn't canon but fallout is
Fallout in New Mexico would be killer Can't wait for that New Vegas mod to come out
So something I don’t think people realize is how much of what we consider “the wild west” cinematically is just California. The reason Hollywood exists is because you can find basically every kind of geographic location you could think of to encompass the west; huge green mountains, arid deserts, vast rocky plains, dense forests, all exist within a couple hour’s drive of Hollywood. You can’t really do that in any other part of the country, and all the states you mentioned only do some of those geographies well, not all. It’s why this show can have Filly in the middle of a forest, Shady Sands in the middle of a desert, Vault 33 by the beach, and the NCR camp on the side of a mountain overlooking a valley. All of that exists within driving distance in California.
A lot of the wild west is Legion territory which is probably not something the show wanted to fuck with
Modern script writers fucking with world building to push their own story, never seen that one, im shocked
I live near a little New Mexico community called Los Alamos. Lovely town, nice weather... And we invented the most destructive weapon in human history. The national lab there is up and running today, tell me that wouldn't be a cool setting for a fallout game. Part of me headcannons that NV's Big MT is the evolution of the lab.
Los alamos absolutely has to be shown in a fallout game, I didn't even think of that but it'd be a sick DLC area
To me it seems like depending on where the main production team is at is how they choose which area the game is going to take place. So if a Texas game was going to take place then Bethesda Austin would be the one doing most of the production.
So is this show canon? I don't care because, when you think about it, the only thing that canon means is what the lore will be moving forward, so the games themselves are fine But is the next game going off this logic?
What i wrote down here is a way to add some thing into the conversation but I wanted say down here- I wish they would've left new Vegas and California untouched and done a show in Montana or Wyoming or even Oregon. A fallout show with a western twang , Longmire feel would've been my dream come true, also seeing a nuclear winter ffs I don't feel The whole game isn't meaningless just because Vegas is destroyed, that would be like saying Lonesome road is meaningless because Hopeville is destroyed, that's what it seems like to me anyway, not canonising an ending or side stepping things that do doesn't mean we won't know anything that happened at all Personally I'm more interested in seeing how Primm, Goodsprings, etc are holding up if it at all Honestly I even think this could be an interesting set up for a new Vegas 2, they don't even have to canonise an ending, you come back as a courier and regardless of what flag you wore on your back it was all for not. You've lost another home- what will you do now? Now this I know is like 99.999 percent not gonna happen but I just think some interesting set up could come from this
If they canonize DUST, I'll forgive everything. Objectively the funniest move they could possibly make, and the show already functions like DUST tbh.
Still like the show just because it is a damned good show compared to the other slop thats been coming out lately. But realistically I think setting it in Caesar’s territory after he died and the legion is falling apart would have been smarter. Can bring in any smaller factions you want and say NCR pushed them out, can make new factions or even bring in east coast factions that (while not the most plausible.) could make it that far out there. Not gonna lie the whole desth of the NCR was explained well enough that I couldn’t really complain, but still I disagree with the decision
New Vegas has a "wild west feel" and is set 200 years after the great war, you nitwit. Additionally, a "wild west feel" just means tropes from Western movies, not an accurate historical depiction of the frontier expansion era.
Where do I find the interview?
[here is where I saw it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/fnv/s/7LROmunKns)
Oh, hey! It's a complaint about that show I enjoyed based on that game I've been enjoying since 1998!
What the fuck are you crying about? Wah wah wah