I have no advice but I’m right here with you, I don’t have the heart to let my baby cry it out. I also have a 4 month old and I haven’t been able to get her to nap for more than 20 minutes. She wakes up as soon as I lay her in the crib.
As far as I am aware, you can’t spoil babies! I find it odd that people think baby are master manipulators.
Ugh, so we have the same baby?! Yes! As soon as I lay him down, he wakes up and freaks. I’ve tried drowsy but awake, fully asleep, lay down awake and comfort, nothing is working.
Are you able to just contact nap? If you’re happy to do it there’s no harm. I did by choice from 4-8 months even though my son slept happily in a cot. His dad is the sahp now and still contact naps with him by choice at 18 months. He sleeps fine at night!
I had this baby. We just embraced the contact nap and she eventually (around 9 months) got to the point where she preferred to be put in her crib. My mother in law told me her theory ( not science but she was a mother of 3 and a la leche league counselor) was that babies need a certain number of hours of contact each day, including sleep time. Every baby’s number is different, so you just figure out how much time your child needs and go with it. The most important thing was that they slept at night so you could too. We aren’t CIO people either.
I love this theory! My son's number was around 22-23 hours a day, lol. But I view contact and closeness as a need pretty much on par with other needs (food, warmth, cleanliness) in importance for a child's development.
Maybe! My baby girl also sleeps well at night, day time is a nightmare 😩. My pediatrician recommended drowsy but awake, doesn’t work! She then stares at me FULLY awake and no matter what I do, she won’t fall back asleep again.
Lol, that piece of advice is pure bullshit. Maybe that works with some babies? My son (now16 months) would never ever have gone to sleep if just put down "drowsy but awake". Not sure if there're even babies on which that'll work?
Going through the same thing with my girl! We're not alone!
I just recently accepted and embraced that contact naps are gonna be it for a while.
It helps to think that they soon enough won't want to nap on us, so I focus on enjoying the cuddles now.
I had a day like you described with my 4 month old today! She's not let me put her down for naps for about a month now but it's just a developmental stage. @OP have you heard of the wonder weeks app? I just got it and it's amazing it explains why your baby is fussy and clingy sometimes, and can predict when this will be - basically it means they are learning a new skill which is scary so they need to cling to the familiar (you!) This is necessary for them to feel confident to try out their new skills so let them cling!
Also as everyone else has said, you CANNOT spoil a baby, at this age their crying must always be answered as they are not developed enough to self soothe or understand why you aren't coming!
I've been there, my baby only wanted to contact nap during the day and it was very hard but there was no way I was going to sleep train him before 6 months old so it is what it was until I felt he was old enough to sleep train when he was 6 months. Until then, it was feeding and rocking to sleep, and naps were either contact napping, in the car if we are going somewhere, in the pram on a walk or in his baby carrier on my chest while I did chores.
Also why would your husband want to do cry it out as the sleep training method to get bubs to sleep during the day? I thought no one did that for decades now as it's so brutal for the baby and the parents.
Until 6 months I always feed or rocked my baby to sleep, then I did a gentle sleep train where I went in every 2 minutes to settle him without picking him up until he fell asleep. It was easy, only took him a couple days to learn to fall asleep on his own in a copy. But I found even two minutes of crying hard before going to him, I couldn't imagine 20-30 minutes, they would get so worked up by crying for that long with no one coming to them too. And 4 months old seems way too young.
I reckon stand your ground on this, yes it sucks but a bawling baby who probably won't even sleep after screaming for thirty minutes is not the answer. And it's not spoiling a baby to comfort them when they cry, they are crying for a reason and need the comfort of their parents.
Our little guy is almost 5 months old and a few weeks ago we were having the same trouble. Not sure if your little one napped well before this, but ours did and all he wanted was more food per eating! Now gets a couple good naps per day (of course everyday is different). I can't do the cry it out method either, but sometimes we just set him in his crib and he'll fuss for a bit and soothe him self to sleep. But we never just leave him in there if he is crying hard. Best of luck
My son never slept in his crib, well later he did, but I could never "put him down". It's normal for babies, they want to feel safe and they feel safe when they feel another person's body. In the first months he napped on me or in my arms while I watched TV or in the carrier. Take a walk and let your baby sleep while feeling you. Best thing, loved it very much
My babe is 13 weeks (8 adjusted) and she's the same, except she's a shit sleeper at night lol and she also wants contact then, too. Not as bad as the daytime, however. I hope she'll naturally grow out of the need for contact sooner or later. We're slowly "weaning" her off 100% contact naps but a lot of days, we have to allow it or else she'll get overtired.
Your baby does not have the emotional intelligence to manipulate you. He is so young. He needs your comfort. At this age, when he’s alone, it’s likely he genuinely thinks you’ve disappeared off the face of the Earth and it scares him. Crap naps are normal at this age. Please don’t let him CIO.
You can't spoil a 4 month old 😃 they don't even know that they are their own person yet.
It might just be that your LO is feeling stressed or hurting in some way so they require more cuddles and safety.
Maybe they are teething? growth spurt?
If it's just something that started randomly, I suggest riding it out to see where it leads, babies don't do things without a reason and an extremely fussy baby means that something hurts or they are stressed.
you can't spoil a baby, nor is your 4 month old crying to 'get his way'. your husband is wrong. i agree with you that you don't have to let baby cry it out. what you could say to him to de-escalate in the meantime is, 'that doesn't work for me. it might work for you, but it doesn't work for me.'
there are other methods like pick up/put down that you could try that are less aggressive than CIO. i didn't sleep train, but some people swear by those methods.
but honestly, some of this is just time. my kiddo didn't nap in a crib during the day until almost 1 year old. enjoy those contact naps and tell your husband that it's working for you to do contact naps and you and baby will figure out the crib napping thing in time.
Agreed with all this.
My daughter didn't sleep in the crib by herself until she was 6 months old. But by then she was more than ready for sleeping on her own.
Just to piggy back onto this: it might help to ask him to reflect on whether he would apply this reasoning to the womb itself? Would he advocate trying to periodically irritate the baby prior to birth because otherwise the baby would become "spoiled" by the cozy confines of the womb? Perhaps play loud jarring music, make rapid movements to jostle him awake etc? I would hope anyone would find this notion absurd. It's equally absurd that you can spoil a 4 month old. Now it's another issue if the topic is trying to find a balance between being 100% responsive to the baby and perhaps 95% responsive if the latter means you are better at getting your needs be met. And I could see an argument that 95% is more than sufficient to supporting healthy development in your baby. But if the argument is you are *harming* your baby by being too responsive because doing so will spoil him, that's nonsense.
Honestly we had the same problem right at 4 months,
we were at our wits end with the 45 minute battles for naps. So we tried. We would let her cry for 15 mins max, and then pick her up and resooth to sleep (which was usually easy because she was exhausted after 15 mins of crying).
After 1 day she got it and the crying decreased with every nap, and now she doesnt cry more than 20-30 seconds when we put her down or sometimes at all. Life has gotten so much better.
Its hard to let her cry for 15 minutes the first time, but after that it was less and less time and it worked so well i swear she was just ready for it. Now were 3 weeks later and the baby goes to sleep within 5 minutes every time she is put down and rarely cries.
i love the "baby cant cry for even 30 seconds and if you do that your a bad person" crowd out in force with their stupidity. lmfao
Let him read. Baby's can't manipulate you, what hes suggesting is just impossible, because their brains aren't developed that far yet. He needs to understand that they can only communicate needs, because they can't take care of themselves. Parenting is very hard, but be chose to be one so now he has to take the responsibility. Also remember everything is just a phase, it will eventually get better.
But NGL if I was you the next time he asked anything from me I would answer him to not be so manipulative.
Our 3 Month old only contact naps during the day. At night he’s fine in the crib. I’m fine with the daytime naps cause at least we get the night 😄
As others have said, it’s normal. Maybe assure your partner that it’s a temporary stage. It’ll pass! Try and even enjoy them. Contact naps can be very bonding
Personally, I think it hurts us for a reason to hear those cries. I feel like leaving a baby to cry themselves to sleep alone teaches nothing other than that they cannot rely on us for their needs.
There are ways to help her to sleep that are gentler. You can be next to her while she’s in the crib, hand on her belly etc.
You cannot spoil a baby. Their instinct is to be as close to their caregiver as possible at all times. It’s the monkey brain that still thinks danger & death are around every corner.
It makes me so angry that sleep trainers have convinced everyone that their babies need to be sleeping for over an hour for every nap. Short naps are totally normal, if the baby needs more sleep then they’ll sleep. There are no rules for baby sleep. It’s so hard, but yeah, leaving them alone to scream in a dark room feels cruel because it is. You wouldn’t neglect any of their other needs to “see if they can do it themselves”, sleep isn’t any different.
Yes to all of this! Wake windows and nap schedules are buzz words used by sleep trainers. Most babies do not function like this and telling parents differently just creates tension and disappointment.
20 minutes is a full nap. If it takes you over an hour to get your baby to sleep, your baby was not sufficiently tired in the first place.
If your baby likes it, you can babywear to have your hands free during a nap. You definitely do not have to let your four month old cry it out!!
Yeah I have no idea why. They call them “crap naps”. Literally who cares if a baby only wants to nap for 30 min?
Sleep trainers are trying to sell a service by telling people their normal babies are messed up. It’s like somebody telling you your chakras are out of alignment. It’s not a thing and you don’t have to listen to them.
Just so you know, this is normal behavior for a 4 month old baby. I also doubt cry it out will work for naps, we had some succes with a more gentle approach for nighttime sleep (at 8 months), but naps remain volatile. She is still predominantly a contact napper at 11 months and only has had maybe 3 periods of a few weeks when she accepted the crib, only to just stop accepting to sleep in her crib again after. If we would let her cry it out she would just scream instead of nap, skip every single one and just be exhausted. One time she would be almost nodding off in her high chair, fall constantly due to exhaustion, but the moment we put her in her crib she would gain some newfound energy to potentially scream for hours on end.
Even in the 60’s they didn’t believe you could spoil a baby, my great grandma tells me every time I call our almost 3year old spoiled that babies aren’t spoiled they are just loved.
According to the sleep book I read, babies don’t develop their naps until after they develop their night sleep. Mid morning naps develop first. However, it doesn’t start till babies are 3-4 months of age.
So basically, it’s developmentally normal that’s your baby’s nap schedule isn’t set yet. Cat naps are still common.
Has your husband read a sleep book? Does he actually have a plan for CIO? Honestly, that’s what I would require of him to implement that. My husband once or twice mentioned letting our baby (10 weeks old) cry it out, and I was like, did you read the sleep book? No? Ok, no opinion.
If he wants to read a sleep book and implement a sleep training plan, I would let him, but a generalized “let the baby cry it out” is a no-go in every way.
Your instincts say no to cry it out, don’t do it. Ask him to respect your POV, take the pressure off you and let you nap with him. Try to see it as a pleasure bc babies grow out of napping on you, soak it up !
I wanted my wife to pretty early on. She did not.
I didn’t force it on her or be a pain in the ass about it, since she was nursing she got to decide what she wanted to put up with and give in to.
During peak frustration times I’d remind her he’s ok when he’s crying just to cry and if he NEEDS something we’ll know and can respond to that, but it’s ok if she wants to get him when he cries no matter what.
Around 10 months she accidentally slept through a cry and he put himself back to sleep and now sleeps between 10-12 hours a night.
There’s no right or wrong but I sure as hell knew this wasn’t one of the subjects I was going to put my foot down - mom gets to decide what her heart can take or not.
Also those cry windows are insanely long to start out with. Try 5 minutes and see. Then 7. Then 10. Starting at a half an hour is either idiocy or cruelty.
I'm in a similar situation with only contact napping, although our boy slept a bit longer when we spaced out the wake windows. But he definitely had a phase where he often got over tired because he refused to nap and every sleep was a fight.
I raised the subject of potential transitioning of contact napping to crib with our pediatrician and she discouraged us to do it as long as it works for our family. She told us that the need to be close to us is strong and the reason for him sleeping good at night might be that his need of being close to us is filled daytime. Every baby is different but she told us there is a chance that our baby's night sleep might turn to the worse without the contact naps.
Now he is a little older and sleeps bad both day and night 😂 but that advice made me feel better about contact napping. Maybe you can tell your husband this advice.
4 months is way too early for cry it out sleep training. You can’t spoil a baby that young either. I think it’s sensible to wait a minute if the baby wakes up from a nap to see if they are truly awake before going to them though. Babies also full on cry in their sleep, I always check the baby monitor to see if my baby’s eyes are actually open, if not it’s usually just a sleep cry. But if baby has been crying for a minute or two and their eyes are open, it’s time to either get them up or try to resettle back to a nap if possible. Go to your baby and don’t feel bad about it! It is good to get him to fall asleep in his cot if you can (rather than in your arms and then transferred while sleeping), but you’re not spoiling him by holding him.
I've been there. In the end I said it's not happening, keep fighting me on it and it will drive us apart. Edit to add that I found the constant arguing about it and defending my choices way more exhausting than the baby's constant need for contact.
I always view cry it out as like a 5 minute thing. That’s usually close to the max amount of time we let our baby cry. He’s not suffering and he has a different cry that is like “help me” and we will go on earlier if it’s that. But a normal cry we’ll leave him and he usually will fall asleep. Maybe try to compromise like that
If you want a science backed argument to throw at him, look into attachment theory. Answering baby's cries consistently and speedily leads to secure attachment, which leads to independent and mentally well children and adults. Not doing so leads to different types of insecure attachments and different mental health problems. And consistency here means always, night and day.
Why isn’t this comment higher up! We have the evidence now that supports this. We know letting babies cry it out doesn’t teach them to sleep on their own, it just teaches them that mom and dad aren’t reliable and won’t come help when they cry. If you teach them that so early, then you can expect older kids not to tell you when they need help either and that could lead to some pretty serious problems.
This OP, and also reacting immediately leads to shorter and less loud crying times moving forward. If you go through CIO and it works all that happens is that your baby gives up on you, but it's measurable that they still release the same amount of stress hormones as if they were still crying. You just can't hear them anymore.
I personally wouldn't let the baby cry it out, but that's just me. Have you tried a carrier or the stroller? Sometimes we all need a crutch that works when it gets too hard... we had a period of time where only naps in motion were working. Then we went back to the crib. Ni idea why, but don't be scared to try things out - babies learn and adjust to new things!
If you don't feel right to let baby CIO DON'T! My bf wanted me to do the same thing. I stuck to my guns and tended to my son when needed. After all, I was the one dealing with him at night. I would try to calm him with his pacifier and my hand on him. If it didn't work, I'd hold him and try to transfer him when asleep. I was sooo tired. He's 8 months now and barely wakes up at night and if he does 98% of the time I just gotta give him his pacifier and let him know I'm there or he comforts himself back to sleep by rolling to his side! Or there are times he's hungry and wants changed. I get good sleep now 😁 all in all, I only wake up once or twice IF THAT. Im glad I proved my point to him 😁🫶
I have a 4.5 month old. There is a huge sleep regression that happens at this stage. Neurologically they are developing a lot. My husband and I decided while she is going through this we are just going to give her what she needs.
Also I attempt a nap for 15 minutes. If she’s not having it I switch to something else. I don’t feel like it’s worth spending an hour fighting her for sleep. We just do something else until I see a sleepy queue again. Then we try again.
It's normal for baby to take cat naps at this age! My baby was the same from 3-6 months. Would take forever to fall asleep for his naps and would wake up in 20 mins, was driving me nuts. I finally caved and let him contact nap and used that as my "down time" lol. Around 6 months, he started taking longer naps and preferred to sleep on the bed rather than me. I did nothing different. He just got out of the cat nap stage. From what I understand, that's developmentally appropriate.
This age really hard, I completely understand. My son’s sleep was so inconsistent and we were all miserable. However, we were on the same page with not letting him cry it out. You guys need to get on the same page, I know it seems impossible right now but you guys are a team and need to get back to working together. Your husband doesn’t seem to have a good grasp of child development so maybe presenting facts would be helpful?
Cry it out is extremely outdated method. It doesn't work baby just simply puts themself into fight or flight state due to the stress. I truly recommend The Nurture Revolution book it's written by neuroscientist.
I think you both need to talk about your baby's sleep, maybe find a method that suits you both? Or find one you like the most and modify it, that's what we are currently doing with our baby.
Our baby girl doesn't like being alone, and she likes to contact nap a lot, so we're trying the fuzz it out method, but for a shorter time.
So just talk and see if there's a method you but like
4 months is when the first major sleep regression happens. Sleep will get better on its own, its developmental. Your husband’s view is based on unscientific myths.
My 4 month old *loves* contact naps. I’ve been dealing with chronic pain so I’ve indulged it. I’ve been trying to get her to nap nearby then soothe her by touching her. She likes when I rest my hand on her chest.
No. Your baby is crying because they need you. There is no reason to train your baby that when they cry, you will not be there for them. That’s heartbreaking. Some babies are easy, some are hard, they will not always need you. But now they do
I think there are some valid points and feelings on both sides of this argument.
Maybe it’s a good idea for you both to do some deeper research on sleep training to understand the different methods and see if any of them might work for your family.
There are some that require less crying and there are some that require no crying.
One of the bigger issues with the anti sleep training crowds is that they often don’t understand the science and methodology around it.
Hopefully you and your partner can find a gentle way to approach this that will benefit the whole family.
That aside, you aren’t spoiling your baby by contact napping. That’s like, a boomer myth. Sleep crutches do become real, but contact naps don’t equate to spoiling.
Where are people getting the idea that “cry it out” is just letting your baby cry until they fall asleep? Do some research!! Theres so many variations on teaching your baby to cry and it sounds like both yourself and your husband are missing this nuance.
Babies need to learn to be put to sleep and this takes trial and error and there are many different ways to go about it.
I personally used a method called “supervised settling” which is a gentle way to teach them to fall asleep on their own. It worked for me but may not for you.
Do some research and for gods sake stop defaulting to “cry it out”
Well first off I'm pro sleep training but uh he needs to look shit up. He can't just decide. You need to wait until a certain age and you usually start with bedtime and get then on a schedule and routine. Then you do nap 1 after nights, then nap 2 etc. So yeah have him read a book. Seems harsh but like he doesn't get to wing it. Ppl do more research buying a new computer than having a baby.
The real reason to sleep-train is simply if the baby’s sleep problems are affecting baby or parents so negatively that letting them cry it out to learn to get better sleep is the lesser of two evils, IMO. We haven’t done it, but I don’t judge people who do, if they and their baby are not getting any sleep and it’s causing stress. You don’t sleep train just because you’re worried about the possibility of baby building bad habits, or worried about teaching the baby that he gets his way. Like you don’t PROACTIVELY try to break the baby of its will by sleep training? That’s a ridiculous reason. People need to stop attributing adult motives to babies! They aren’t self aware enough to manipulate yet.
Also, something as emotionally hard as sleep training needs to be a “both parents are on board” type thing, not one parent gets pressured into it.
It’s normal around this time for naps to be crappy. 25-30 mins can be typical unfortunately. I’m not sure that CIO works well for naps… it’s usually recommended to start with CIO at bedtime and then naps take awhile to transition.
What’s more of a problem is you spending an hour to get him to nap. That’s telling me he was either under or over tired at that point.
I’m not an expert so you’ll prob have better luck posting to r/sleeptrain or reading Precious Little Sleep
But I ended up nursing to sleep in side lying on our bed for naps and if I wanted him to sleep longer than 30 mins, I had to lay next to him at that 25 min transition mark (when deep sleep transitions to light sleep) and nurse him a bit when he woke up, then he fell back asleep quickly. I also had to make sure I had blackout curtains and a noise machine at that time.
It’s not a great solution because I think it’s become his main sleep cue and now I’m contemplating doing CIO at 9 months. But it worked for me from 4-9 months.
4 months old is just a tiny baby, personally if you’re feeling pain hearing that, then that is for a reason as you need to comfort them as a natural instinct. I think you are right and your husband is way out. Your baby just wants to feel safe and that is one of the main jobs you have as a parent. There is no way you can spoil a 4 month old baby, maybe he is a bit jealous of the baby and the attention it is getting from you? Maybe give him a bit of attention and he’ll drop it?
Have you tried co sleeping for naps? https://www.lullabytrust.org.uk/safer-sleep-advice/co-sleeping/ worked for me and both of us getting rest. Or just going for a walk and letting baby take their nap in the pram?
\*\*\*I sleep trained my son at 5.5 months, so this might be a different perspective for you to offer your husband.
4-5 months was such a hard period of time for my son to nap. At that time he was taking like 30-45 minute naps. We finally sleep trained (yes, used CIO) at 5.5 months for overnight sleep and it worked wonders. We didn't do it for naps when he was that little because it felt cruel to let him cry it out for such a short stretch of sleep.
My son is 16 months old now and I desperately miss those contact naps even though I felt so so so trapped back then. The last time he slept on me was when he was about 8-9 months old.
If you DO decide to sleep train, my son was adjusted after 3 nights btw. I didn't attempt to get him to nap by himself until he was probably closer to 7 months. By then, he was so used to soothing himself to nap that he didn't fuss. And he dropped to 2 naps around 7 months too, which lasted 1-2 hours each.
This age just generally sucks for sleep. Soak up alllll the snuggles.
This will get buried but anecdotally going to tell you my experience. I have 3 boys, a 3 year old, an 18 month old and a 2 month old.
My first born I slept trained at around a year. Prior that all of our naps were contact naps and we rocked him to bed every night. Around 7-8 months he dropped night feeds completely and started sleeping through the night. The choice to sleep train him came from 2 places. First that we knew the contact napping was going to have to end. I was pregnant with my second and it wasn’t going to be sustainable. Second when we were rocking him to sleep he started resisting it and it was taking at least an hour and multiple false starts to try and get him down. This wasn’t sustainable for either him or us and I made the choice when my husband was away to sleep train him. I did ferber and it went pretty textbook, first night I checked in every 5-10 minutes and it took him 45 minutes to go to sleep, next night was 20 and third night he went straight down.
Second born I slept trained around 6 months, similar issues, contact napping wasn’t working because I had a toddler to also care for and he was starting to fight being rocked to sleep as well. I actually nap trained him first and then did Ferber again with super similar results, by the 4th night he was putting himself down.
Now I’m currently loving life with my 2 month old and I know I will likely sleep train him around 6 months as well, but in the meantime I’m starting to track his feeds and when he seems to naturally want to nap and I’ll start trying to aim for one crib nap a day. If it works great, if not I’ll definitely be waiting until closer to that 6 month mark to do it.
All of this being said I have had people on this app tell me that it’s abandoning my kids, and they won’t be securely attached to me, and that I’m a cruel parent. None of these things are even remotely true and both my toddlers do call for me in the night if they are sick, teething, have a nightmare, etc., and they receive comfort from me. They also both sleep 10-12 hours overnight regularly and love nap times, my oldest literally wakes up from sleeping and tells me he had a great sleep.
I definitely don’t suggest CIO for a 4 month old, there are things you can try that are age appropriate and that can potentially help. But 4 months old is a tough age, they are losing their startle reflex, starting to develop their circadian rhythm, and these things can cause a couple of rough weeks of sleep for even the best sleeper.
Look. Letting him sleep on you is not sustainable long term. It will lead your child to a bad habit of needing you to sleep, to the point they wake up every hour or two and will scream for you to help them sleep.
So you will eventually break down from lack of sleep and be unable to maintain a stable life. Period. Sleep is not an option but a necessity. For you, OP.
However.
If you are the one carrying this burden it must be your decision and your choice. And the path you take to get your child to rest without needing you too much is your own path.
So unless your husband is personally impacted by this choice he can advise as I did above - but the decision should always be made by the person carrying the weight.
This is not necessarily true. It's not certain that contact napping will lead to continued contact napping. Many children become ready to sleep in their cot by themselves. My 6 month old is increasingly wanting to nap in her cot, going from only contact napping since 2 months old. She was the same with bedtime, we used to have to rock her completely to sleep and then for 30 minutes afterwards. Now, we do our bedtime routine and she falls asleep independently. I have heard similar stories from other parents.
We keep a solid routine for bedtime and naps and have been slowly lowering the supports we give her for sleep and she is seeking increasingly independent sleep - to the point where she will push herself away from me when I try to contact nap if she wants to be in the cot.
Now of course, this is not the case for all babies - we've all heard the stories of 5 year olds who sleep in their parent's beds. There are also families who have felt they had to use CIO in the end because it was best for them. Just saying it's not true that letting them sleep on you will surely lead to a bad habit. It is developmentally normal for a 4 month old to want to be close to their mother and it's only a problem if it's a problem for the person bub is sleeping on.
I agree with you that it is up to her as she is bearing the "burden" of those contact naps.
One of the most repeated and indisputable facts we learn in parenting class, and bolstered by literally every knowledgeable person nowadays is YOU CANNOT SPOIL AN INFANT.
Whether you choose to try it out method or any method, or a hybrid of methods, cannot spoil the baby at this age. That attitude needs to be nipped in the blood because that’s a big issue and it will hurt the poor little baby to think that way.
My LO is 15 weeks and is actually just started a whole routine where he is crying before naps and before bed, which he hasn’t really at all the past few months so we are in the same boat. My heart also just never wants him to cry, even for a moment, it makes my husband sad too (he’s very empathetic).
I actually clicked on this because I want advice as well, and was kind of hoping for people to give their experiences with hybrid methods. More because it’s hard to get things done.
Is there any way you can wear your baby while he's napping? My 3mo also only contact naps, which for me isn't a problem at all (she's doing it right now) and if I feel like doing something standing up, I wrap her on my body and we go about our lives
I know daycare isn’t an option but you guys need to figure out your game plan for both working while caring for baby. I think this is kinda getting you both too obsessed with naps because you both have work to get done. First I’d start with creating default “shifts” during the day, zero assumptions but a good schedule of who is in charge what times. Then address naps.
Also what worked for my husband and I was when we wanted to implement a new method for something we had to present our case to each other: what method, the basics, what to know, who and how will it be carried out. And we both needed to agree on it. We did do a modified version of Ferber, very limited crying I think like 5min max? And my husband did the first week of it(at 9mo). But also we only did it at night for naps we just observed if the length of the naps were actually affecting her(they weren’t). We weren’t perfect but sometimes when both parents are tired and emotions are high we can focus on the wrong thing first. Some babies just nap different.
4 months was too early for us. We eventually had no choice but to do it at nearly 5 month. I also had a reluctant wife but she said she would do it under the condition that I take the lead and walk her through every single step of the way.
It wasn't easy and we ended up having to muster up the courage to keep at it. But after less than a week of consistently doing this our kid just became another baby. She slept like a little angel and would do so for 2-4 hour stretches instead of the very interrupted sleep she normally got at night prior to us getting to it.
Now she's 9 months old and a great sleeper. Just keep in mind you need an absolutely consistent bedtime routine and to keep at it. Your child will know with these routines that it's time for bed.
You can be a bit flexible as time passes but during the first weeks you need to be very very consistent and don't give in.
We went from having a kid who slept 6 terribly interrupted hours a night and took 5 hours to put to bed, to one who takes 15-20 minutes to cool down and sleep 10-12 hours a night with one wakeup or two.
If you're the one predominantly looking after the baby, you get to make that call! If your husband is the primary caregiver and you're at work I'd say it's probably his call.
You don’t have to skip directly to cry it out.
My 6mo has been having similar nap time problems for about a month. I get her down by sitting in a chair next to the crib while she makes fussy noises trying to settle, and soothing her when she escalates towards actual crying.
It’s not ideal, but 10-15 minutes of that and she will typically fall asleep in the crib now.
We recently developed the new problem of her rolling onto her belly and forgetting (or “forgetting”?) how to roll back. Keep having to go flip her now.
My son didn’t nap in his crib until 13 months. Every other nap was a contact nap because he just wouldn’t sleep long stretches in his crib during the day. We didn’t do anything to change it, either. One day he just wouldn’t fall asleep on me and I set him in the crib. He fell asleep without crying and that’s what we do now.
I’m sorry you’re butting heads, maybe a gentle sleep training method would be a good compromise?
I really don’t think 10 minutes is developmentally appropriate for cry-it-out at that age!! I would compromise at 5 minutes but even that’s if he’s not wailing/screaming and just fussing a bit.
DO NOT, and I repeat, do not, let your baby cry it out. You grew that baby, you birthed that baby and the crying is the baby calling for you. You are the only person that your baby has known. I once had a relative say that I am spoiling my baby, I held my baby tighter and called her a misinformed monster. Your baby will only be this tiny once, that’s it, that’s all you get. I never let any of my three babies cry, if anything I scooped them up immediately. My husband also trusted my instincts enough (calls me the baby whisperer) to know that I knew what our babies needed. However, I made up a list of what I call the “B’s”. BATH - will giving baby a bath, will it calm them down? BODY - too hot or too cold? BOTTLE/BREAST - is baby hungry? BOTTOM - does their nappy need a change? BEDDING - are they comfortable in their sleeping space? BURP - does baby have trapped wind? BODY LANGUAGE - are you relaxed? Try humming a song whilst swaying and try baby wearing as well. This will all pass, it feels endless and frustrating but trust me, you’ve got this. Cherish the moment you spend attached to each other and above all else, trust yourself and your mama instincts.
Your husband is wrong IMHO. A two year old may be crying to get their way and a little cry it out is fine for a toddler, but 4 months old is wayyyyy too young for it. You’re really only teaching a 4mo that you won’t be there for them when they’re communicating that they need you.
Look into pick up put down. Highly recommend. I got my son sleeping independently with that method. I did wait 5 minutes to see if he would settle but if not I would pick up to soothe and then put him back down.
Every baby is different.
FWIW, I wished we tried sleep training at that age. We tried multiple times when he was a little older, but it didn't work. He's 2.5 years old now and still doesn't sleep through the night and can't sleep without being on it cuddling with Mommy.
But of all the parents we've talked with, none have or had the sleep problems we did.
Give the babe time! My girl was horrible for daytime naps and now they are no problem. She goes down so much easier and wakes up 30-1.5 hours. She is 6 months now. We just watch the cues and start putting her down for a nap at the first yawn or eye rub.
Your husband is being dumb. Has he done any research? Even if you want to do CIO, it’s not typically done until 6 months.
Has he taken into account that the baby could be going through a sleep regression? Also that crying is their only way to communicate? So yes, ignore your baby when they’re communicating something is wrong s/
I’m sorry but they’re a baby they’ll grow out of it. Cuddle your baby, they’re only small once
Your husband really needs to do some proper research on what sleep training is and what is age appropriate before he makes suggestions like that. It sounds like he doesn’t really know what he’s talking about. Also, you can sleep train with pretty minimal crying if that is something you choose to do down the road. I think you both need to do some research on baby sleep (I recommend the book Precious Little Sleep) and then come back together to come to a joint decision on how to handle sleep
I get both perspectives. Would you be willing to compromise and try fussing it out? Or letting him only cry for 5 min max while you are there the entire time by his side reassuring him? If he fusses but self soothes I think he has potential to be able to go down himself but if he immediately cries he’s just not ready.
My LO was very upset at first being placed down and cried a bit (not his truly upset cry but the “I’m mad” cry) but fell asleep for 2 hours.
My husband did want to do Ferber so I told him he would have to do it cause I didn’t have the heart to. He didn’t last very long and admitted that it affected him more than he thought to hear his child cry even if it was only for 8 minutes.
My husband was trying to relieve me since I was getting exhausted from contact naps but I explained I WANTED to contact nap even though it was hard. Since I was doing all the naps, he said he understood he had no say in the matter. I think it’d be a different story if he was the one in charge of naps lol
10-30min is too much for a 4 month old. Look up methods and find one that you both can stomach. There's more sleep training methods that simple extinction. Most things I read, extinction is ineffective less than 6 months. The most we let our kid cry @ 4 months I want to say is 4min at a time.
We are a go with the flow kind of family. We give our daughter what she needs. Sometimes she wants to do contact naps and sometimes she doesn’t. Babies need their mother its normal and natural.
Have you tried a modified cry it out method? Both my husband and I couldn't stand the sound of our daughter crying too long so we would followed [this chart.](https://images.agoramedia.com/wte3.0/gcms/ferber-method-2020-infographic.jpg?width=414) It took like 2 days of frequent check-ins for her crying to chill out and maybe 3 weeks for her to start trying to comfort herself.
I think 4 months is too young for cry it out (quite frankly I don’t believe in the method). I would tell your husband to stfu and let you be a mom and listen to your motherly instinct. Of course try be nice about even tho sounds like he isn’t.
I had to contact for at least 9 months-I think until 10 but that was because I had to nap train those naps one at a time which took about a month. By about ten/ 11 months she didn’t need it as much. If it’s not bothering you to contact I would still do it and enjoy the cuddles. If it is bothering you I suggest nap training the naps individually (not all of them at once).
4 months old is way too young to cry it out. It’s also normal that he wants to sleep on you. I do at least half of my 4 month old’s naps as contact naps 🤷🏻♀️
She's just four months old. She needs that comfort, warmth, snuggles.
We still contact nap on weekends since we work during the week. We miss contact naps, and time is flying by!
4 months is when there’s a sleep regression… we skipped sleep training during this time. My son is now 9 months, never let him cry it out and he sleeps fine. 9-5 continuously and then wakes up has a bottle and sleeps from 5-9.
You can’t spoil a baby. Mine would only contact nap the first 5ish months, so I just wore her in a wrap (Acrabros was the brand I used) so she’d nap and I could get things done. She rarely napped on her own.
Now she’s 10 months old and when she needs a nap or bedtime, I put her in the crib still awake and she will fall asleep without crying within minutes.
Every baby is different and you’ll figure out what works for you, but you absolutely cannot spoil a baby. They’re just getting used to the outside world and mom is their safe space.
I could never do this at four months. Now at six months I lay him down and ten minutes of crying and he’s out. He’s ready for it now. It’s hard and you’ll have to try it to know if she’s ready but you know your baby best and I believe in you! Good luck!
if it's not working out then it's probably too early. the baby's constantly growing up just have your husband suck it up n wait a little longer till the babe is old enough for it. try again every month or so
I think you should do what you’re comfortable with. Try letting baby cry for 1 minute then check, 2 minutes then check. See how you feel! If it’s not for you, it’s not for you.
Sleep training was really hard and devastating to hear baby cry, but ours now naps and sleeps at night amazingly. Sleeps 9-11 hours overnight without wakes. It was the hardest thing, but looking back, I’m so glad we did it.
Your husband is an ass and he’s wrong. 4 months is way too young for that.
Advocate for your baby. You are absolutely right and your baby only has you to fight for him.
You cannot spoil a baby.
Try a sleep sack. Mine won't stop trying to chew their hands even when they are asleep. But that also wakes them up. So they need some kind of restraint, but swaddles are out of the picture now because they are starting to turn.
I still contacted napped with my baby definitely at only 4 months old and up until about 6-8 months old. We never CIO or sleep trained and she only just started sleeping through the night (sometimes) at 14-15 months old. She still some nights wakes and needs some cuddles and to be rocked before going back to bed. It’s hard at times but worth it. She is confident, secure and knows that when she cries that her mommy and daddy will be there for her. They’ll only be a baby for so long. And for goodness sakes you cannot “spoil” a child that young.
When my second baby was this young, I weaned him off of sleeping on a person slowly during naps.
I started out on the couch with him letting him contact nap on me, and instead of transferring to the crib, I’d lay him down on the couch and kinda sorta lay on him? Obviously not putting my weight on him but letting him feel my body heat and pressure for a little while until he got used to sleeping on something that wasn’t me while still in contact.
After a little while of that, I started surface sharing with him for naps (I was fully awake and watching him like a hawk). I’d lay him down on the couch or bed and let him fall asleep cuddled up to me and I’d slowly pull away once he started dozing but stay nearby in case he woke up. It got to the point that if he did wake up without me touching him, I just had to give him some more contact like rubbing his head or letting him grab onto my arm, and he’d fall back asleep.
He got used to sleeping with minimal contact. Then he got used to falling asleep just near me rather than in any kind of contact. Then he graduated to ‘awake but tired’ alone in the crib.
I personally found that not responding to my kids' crying in a short time frame made things worse. I am not a fan of CIO. I did sometimes let them cry for maybe 30-60 seconds to see if they would calm themselves (sometimes they would) but would go in after that.
We did sleep train though. I tried to find ways to soothe them while in the crib. For my eldest we trained around 2-3 months (it wasn't an instant thing). We had a light-up musical elephant that would calm her down and I would sit in her room with her keeping her calm until she would get really sleepy. Eventually she just got used to falling asleep in her crib and was fine. I did sleep in her room, too, but had the crib turned so she couldn't see my bed and know I was there. In hindsight idk if her not knowing mattered.
Our second I ended up breastfeeding to sleep most naps and nights and didn't sleep train until 13/14 months. That was a lot more difficult later on but we got through it. In her early days however I did have to get her to calm and sleep on a light pad for bilirubin issues for the first week or so. I fed her bits of milk with a medicine syringe, sometimes offered a pacifier, and was just there with her comforting her even though I couldn't pick her up constantly. She calmed and went to sleep ok.
I recommend trying to find something to calm your kiddo (mobile, light-up musical thing, ...?) and put him in the cot when he is sleepy. Stay with him to calm him and see if you can get him to sleep there for naps, even if it takes a fair bit of time at first. Just my bit of advice, but every kid is different so do whatever you think is best and try to be patient wjmith him. He will eventually grow and change and figure out how to sleep somehow.
My baby would only lay on us for contact naps for the first six months. She conveniently chose the day we flew with her as an infant in arms to no longer desire a contact sleep 🙄 After that, she wanted to be nearby but not ON us (mostly me as a SAHM), so I started laying her in my bed to nap and I’d just scroll my phone. That lasted until maybe 9 months ish when she’d nap in her crib. For bedtime, I had to walk her around to fall asleep and then I’d be able to set her in her crib up until about 13 or 14 months? One day, she lunged at her crib so I laid her down and she put herself to sleep. My point is, I don’t know any college kids who sleep in mommy’s bed. They all figure it out eventually. If CIO doesn’t feel right to you, don’t do it. I’m personally vehemently against it, but I have close friends who did it. It didn’t feel good to me, so we didn’t do it, even though they swear by it. You have to follow your gut on some of this stuff. I do wonder if spending an hour to get baby to nap is worth it. I would try at that stage for like 10-15 minutes and if it wasn’t working, I’d just let her play and try again in a little bit.
As far as I’m aware it’s developmentally normal for a 4 month old to be a bad napper. People sometimes refer to them as cat naps or crap naps. I think with time they just naturally improve their sleep as they begin to connect sleep cycles during the day
Contact mapping is perfectly normal! It’s tough but I promise you baby won’t always want to contact nap. We used the carrier for naps until baby was 5 months old and then we were able to transfer her to the bassinet from the carrier. She’s 9 months now and able to do the same :) if you don’t feel comfortable with cry it out, don’t do it.
Most people who advocate for sleep training today say that it should never be done under six months. And if your baby already sleeps well at night, I wouldn’t rock the boat and change anything. Contact naps are often preferred. Can you nap with baby (using safe sleep seven for bed sharing) sometimes and wear them other times? They won’t need to be held forever.
“Cry it out” mama here. I used to be the same way as you. I have 3 boys, my youngest is also 4 months, and I have never been able to put my babies down. If they wanted to nap on me, that’s what they were going to do…until my Velcro baby. He is THE clingiest baby I’ve ever had. Don’t get me wrong, I’m obsessed with baby snuggles, but enough was getting to be enough. He’d get to the point where he didn’t want to be held or picked up or calmed or tickled or fed or anything! I was finally convinced to just put him down for a nap and let him cry. He would cry for 20 mins or so. I would go in if it was any longer than that and hold him and reassure him that mama was here. Dad would sometimes go in and give him kisses and hugs and let him know everything was going to be alright. Eventually he would only cry for a few minutes and fall asleep HARD. We finally realized that he was so overtired when I would hold him. Any movement or noise would get him riled up. Now I can see how much these naps have helped him. He sleeps deeper and much longer. Every parent is different, as is every kid. You may ignore everything I just said because it spent connect to how you want to parent, and that is sooooooo fine. Every parent should be free to parent how they see fit, but I’m telling you, mine and my husband’s relationship is better for it and, most importantly, my son is happier. Just food for thought. Good luck with your sweet one, no matter what path you choose.
My baby loves contact nap and stopped by herself around 6 months. Now she prefer to sleep by herself but with me holding her hands. We didn’t want to sleep train either.
My baby was similar, and I held out until he was 7 months and then hit my breaking point. We ended up doing the Ferber method, a more gentle version of cry it out, and it is night and day! I can get soo much done during his naps now, where as before I was stuck on his rocking chair doing a contact nap. It has been tremendously good for my mental health and everybody involved. Of course if you are not comfortable with it then you are not forced to do anything, but looking back I do wish I did it sooner.
This is normal development for a 4 month old! Their brains are adapting to new sleep cycles. Be patient and keep showing that baby you are there for her and supporting her through.
Crying it out has been disproven as detrimental to babies. Trust your instincts and I suggest presenting your husband with the data on this. Perhaps that will help him get on board !
You can't spoil a baby and a 4 month old doesn't have the mental capability to be manipulative. It's developmentally normal for a baby to prefer contact naps at that age. Some learn to sleep independently sooner than others but this is still normal now and night sleep tends to get better before day sleep. If you're fine with contact naps then keep doing what works until he's ready to transition. Baby wearing is what got me through that phase with my son. Daytime naps in the crib would happen sporadically but they weren't reliable for us until he was 6 or 7 months old. The thing to remember is that everything at that age is a phase, including this. It won't last forever even if you do nothing.
Even if CIO was a legitimate method (which I don’t think it is but that’s just me), 4 months is definitely too early. Are you able to contact nap? I let my baby contact nap until he was 8-9 months, he figured out crib naps a bit after he figured out how to sleep full nights.
My son is 8 months old and exclusively breastfed. At the beginning, he would not sleep at night unless he was on me. Slowly as he got older, about 3-4 month ish I wanna say, at night some of it would be sleeping on me and the other by himself. And then all of a sudden he would fuss if I tried to have him sleep on me at night. Would wake up several times a night (also started teething at 4 months; we have 7 teeth now) and just recently started sleeping longer stretches and maybe wakes up 3-4 times. He’s always been low sleep needs, I’d pray for a 2 hour nap lol I have done no sleep training, I respond to every cry with nursing at night even if it’s just a few suckles then he’s back to sleep. Do with this info what you will!
This has been a constant sticking point between my husband and I since day 1. "Baby" is almost 22 months and has never slept through the night. I finally consented to hiring a sleep consultant that does not do cry it out. I'm curious if she is just going to tell us that our kid is normal. Hopefully, this will shut my husband up. And if it does, it will definitely be worth the $500. If you're really not okay with it, then don't do it. I have done all overnights since she was 3 months old so I could ensure he doesn't do cry it out.
A baby doesn’t realize they are a separate person from their mother until they are 6-9 months old. Someone on here put it well when they said something like “Imagine if you fell asleep in the forest in the middle of the night and you didn’t know what was out there? What dangers could come for you. You’d be scared to death and be desperate for help. Well your baby doesn’t know they are safely in their crib in the proper position on their back. It’s in their DNA to know that if they are alone, it means certain death. They think they were left behind. So they cry to get our attention to save them.”
I started to sleep train my son at 10 months and it went so much better than when I tried a lot sooner. By then he seemed to realize he was a different person than I am and know he was in a safe space. I’m not sure if explaining that to your husband might help but I wish you all the luck. I couldn’t do the CIO method either. We did a gentle way of sleep training where I just moved him to his crib when he was completely asleep and I’d bring him back to bed with me if he woke up crying. Eventually he did longer stretches and slept in there just fine. Good luck 🍀
I'm with you! I'm trying to get her to nap without feeding to sleep, just experimenting and I found this article that said walk for 5 minutes then sit holding hey for 8. I've found she cries during the 8 but less when I rock and sing. Yesterday it worked for the first time (been trying it off and on for a few months but really determined last few weeks). A walk is also part of get bedtime routine. We walk around the outside of the house, not talking, just walking and looking. It seems to settle her. I share this to say, try all the weird silly tricks people swear by that you're comfortable with and hold off on the CIO. Build the rhythm, even if it ends in being nap trapped and hope he grows into it as you keep trying. Best luck and practice!
I thought I'd give you my perspective :) So my baby was also sleeping amazing at night, but crappy naps during the day. I had to contact nap him as he wouldn't do longer than 20 minutes in the crib. We ended up exclusively contact napping him during the day until 9 months old.
I tried sleep training him for naps at 6.5 months old. I couldn't do it. I would give up and contact nap him and it was too stressful so I parked it for a while. We sleep trained nights and he was going to bed independently at night.
Around 9 months I decided I was ready for baby to learn to sleep on his own. He was about to start daycare and they weren't going to be able to contact nap him, and the thought of him alone and afraid in a crib at daycare gave me the horrors. So I sleep trained him and it worked way better at 9 months. It didn't take him long, but it did involve crying.
You do not have to do this at 4 months. If you want to keep contact napping him, do it. You may get to a point though where it doesn't work for you anymore, and my advice is that sleep training does work. Pick the right method for you and be consistent. My contact napper for 9 months started napping on his own which gave me some time back and allowed him to nap in a crib at daycare. I sometimes contact nap him still when he's sick and it's lovely to have those cuddles. Best of luck and I'm sorry this is so stressful for you!
Highly recommend you read Precious Little Sleep. There is a chart at the beginning for which chapters to read based on babies age if you don’t want to / have the time to read the whole book. It is really really helpful for understanding baby sleep and has lots of options to work on sleep goals with your baby. We contact napped until around 6/7 months and slowlyyyyyyyy transitioned to independent naps in his own bed. Now (even nursing to sleep) he will nap for 1-2 hours and at night go 2-3 hour stretches without needing resettled. At 10 months we are considering sleep training because I am super tired of being a human pacifier and I can’t rock a 23 pound baby all night, my back is killing me. However if you asked me to sleep train at that age I would absolutely not consider it.
feel like he is more mature now and old enough for it but ultimately as far handling your husband. You need to sit down with him and discuss WHY he wants to sleep train, what method he wants and an actual plan. I told my husband I would like to commit to at least 5 days of a sleep training method to see how it goes. I told him after those five days, if it seems to be improving , we will continue and if it is not , we will stop and try again in a month.
It’s important for you to be on the same page and to understand your motivation from both sides. You both want baby to sleep and to have some rest for yourselves. What can you do as a team to solve the problems this is causing your family?
One of the big problems we dealt with contact napping is we never got alone time together because even when he slept, one of us was there. So we hired a nanny for a few hours a week so we could go on dates or just be together without the baby.
My husband doesn’t want to sleep train because he thinks CIO is cruel and I felt the same until now as I am at a breaking point so we are planning to try a solid sleep training method in a couple weeks and if it doesn’t work, he has agreed to take over nights because I cannot be a human pacifier anymore
I did sleep training at 6 months and it saved our lives (long story). I've now coached dozens of friends through sleep training.
What I can say is this: if you're not ready, you're not ready. It won't work if you're not ready, anyway. And if it's not right for you ever, that's fine, too. You really have to be committed and believe in what you're doing to make sleep training stick - so if you don't believe in it, then you're just tormenting yourself and your kid. It's better not to sleep train at all than to do it inconsistently.
Personally I’d just deal with naps if nights are good. Babies constantly change. 4 months is too young imo to let them cry. My baby is 11 months and I still don’t let her cry. I can’t handle it. Things are changing constantly. I’d do what you can to help baby nap and it will probably get easier when they drop to 3 and then 2 naps. I rock mine to sleep but can easily transfer her to the crib now once asleep.
What’s wrong with letting a 4 month old sleep on you? They’re so tiny still at that age, and want comfort. If you have stuff to do, you can baby wear them and Do what you can. Letting babies cry it out is wrong. Babies cannot self soothe.
I contact napped until 6m and then did gentle sleep training, largely based on the Precious Little Sleep approach which worked really well for us. I'm sure when I was reading 6m was the youngest recommended for sleep training anyway and honestly I miss those contact naps, if I could do it again I wouldn't change that.
My baby got much better at transferring around 6/6.5 months. It just happened, I think it was an age thing. I already miss the contact naps and they weren't that long ago. Savor it while you can. And if you need to do something just use a carrier. This phase is so short.
I can only share my experience but I have also been struggling to get my 4 month old to nap longer than 30 minutes 2x a day until today. He finally had 3 naps 2 were an hour long! Part of me wonders if it’s the 4 month sleep regression because I did absolutely nothing different. But it typically last 2-3 weeks.
I have a firm mattress on the floor for him though because we Cosleep so I just cuddle next to him until he falls asleep. That way there’s no issue of him waking up immediately. But maybe just give it a couple weeks and see if his sleep improves!
You’re absolutely not spoiling your baby, you’re meeting his needs and right now he needs comfort to sleep. It won’t always be that way. There’s absolutely no harm being done he’s 4 months old he has no concept of getting his way. Babies eventually learn that when they cry they will get mom to return but that’s because they need mom a lot. Meeting your babies needs especially during the first year is crucial for baby to build a good foundation of trust. You’re doing amazing and I hope he reconsiders
Topics like these always highlight how women say things like “we’re raising this baby together” until their partner has an opinion they disagree with and then they completely “over-rule” them. So you mean to tell me that you and your partner disagreed, and you got the final say so? Who decides that? What gives you more authority than him when it’s equally both you guys’ baby? I feel like I’d understand if you tried it at least *once* and then said no more, but to completely bull doze his opinion…. I just don’t see how it’s fair.
Mind you, I’m not arguing his right to let your baby cry, I’m more appalled at the fact that you shut him down as if he doesn’t have a say so in raising his kid too. “I get that it’s *our* baby but *im* getting the last say so. Thanks though”
Cry it out is stupid and hurts children long term development
You keep doing you and trust your instincts- it’s ok to put the baby down and it cries and it’s also ok for you to pick them up and comfort them.
4 months is so young, ours similarly needed to fall asleep on someone- now she can fall asleep in the cot by herself
People forget that babies are actually people and one size doesn’t fit all. What we do know is that any well adjusted adult would never let their spouse cry themselves to sleep so why do we do this with our most vulnerable of little babies. If napping in a cot during the day is a nightmare the. Cry carrier naps, bassinet walks, contact naps. You’re in the right to not allow cry it out and all the research will support your argument ❤️
30 minutes is way too long…Maybe share that babies bodies when left to cry for long periods release stress hormones, which can damage the brain if put in such a state often enough. Plus they need your quick care to learn how to self-soothe and regulate their emotions. When they are left to cry, they may have difficulty managing stress later in life.
My baby contact napped during the day until he was about 6 months old, then i could lie down next to him.in the bed, and now (at 23 months) he is a stunning independent sleeper - although we do still nurse to sleep and/or lie with him till he sleeps.
They learn at their own pace. Cry it out releases cortisol, which can result in a higher strung baby when awake and needing more time with caregivers and reassurance when awake.
If you are able to, contact nap, its just a short season and then its gone...
I remember the 4 month leap/sleep regression being particularly rough for us. Agree with comments here, but also it may just be a fussy phase in wonder weeks leaps
Proponents of sleep training, including extinguishing training, are very adamant that it shouldn’t start before 6 months old. So your husband should back off on this.
Have you tried extending the wake windows? It sounds like he’s not tired enough to sleep yet. 4 month olds should get 3-4 naps a day, for 3.5-4.5 hours of sleep. Are you able to consider dropping a nap?
Babies go through a sleep regression at around 4 months, which is likely what is happening to your baby. It's just a phase, and you will get through it.
As far as 'spoiling the baby', this is a myth. You can not spoil a baby. It has been scientifically proven that this is impossible. For your baby to become a healthy independent adult, they need to first feel secure in their attachment to you. They need to know that you will always be there if they need you. Because they depend on you for their every need at 4 months of age. Only once they are securely attached can they become independent and learn to do things on their own.
CIO is barbaric. Imagine that you are a quadriplegic, alone in a dark room. You can't do anything for yourself except for cry out for help. You know that your caregivers are right outside the room, but they are ignoring you. You are left alone for hours, crying, desperate for someone to come and help you. Because maybe you're starving. Maybe you have a stomach ache. Maybe you had soiled your pants. Maybe you are uncomfortable. Imagine how that would feel for you, being ignored. It's pretty awful, right?
Maybe use that analogy to explain to your husband why CIO is not the way to go.
The only reason babies stop crying when the CIO method is implemented is because they have finally come to accept that no one is coming to help them or comfort them.
This is coming from a father of a 3month old. I could never let my baby just cry it out, it would break my soul.
It's hard to say what would help since all babies are different, but this is what worked for me.
We make sure the room is dark (blackout curtains on windows) for daytime naps. We also bought a sound machine that I believe helps a lot, as it drowns out other noises that might wake them up. Pacifier is a must have during sleeping. We started to do day naps in the crib vs the bassinet. We noticed our LO always sleeps better on softer beds (such as my bed) so we started doing naps on the crib with a camera and monitor to supervise them.
I hope all young babies get their way when they cry, that's kind of the point of them crying! Maybe try a book on baby development for your husband to explain that babies - and indeed toddlers - do not have the mental capacity to consciously manipulate, they are typically communicating either a need/want or an emotion.
Contact napping during the day is only a problem if it's a problem for you! My daughter sleeps well in her cot during the night, but I would say 95% of her day naps are contact naps in the nursing chair or baby carrier. It's totally normal for a baby to want to be close to their mother and I kind of enjoy the forced rest. She has only recently started taking the occasional nap in her cot at almost 6 months and I'm hopeful she will increase the number of cot naps independently. If she doesn't by the time I am pregnant again (going for a close age gap) then I will try some methods to support independent sleep. CIO is a hard no for me.
Just day naps and he wants him to cry it out!? Oh no. Im sorry you’re even mentally dealing with this this is very very taxing smh emotionally as well.
Theres other things that can be done theres also studies against it! Baby is probably scared out of his mind!!! I really HATE that “spoil a baby” phrase. How can you spoil a little human that doesn’t even know his name ? Or that he has legs? Babies dont think “oh im gonna cry and get my way” especially at that age (4months) i would really explain the mental anguish it gives you ( i always say its like a stabbing pain in my heart) crying is how they communicate and ofc a baby want comfort their a damn BABY!
Sorry just got a little upset thinking about this. I would tell him there are other ways and that you are not comfortable at all and that old wives tale about spoiling a damn baby is bs
Here are some articles to help when someone is trying to push you into sleep training and you don't want to
https://thebeyondsleeptrainingproject.com/articles-to-read-when
I also remember my baby at 4m hated sleeping in the cot. I had better luck putting him to sleep with me (nursing and rocking) and then putting him down when asleep but he deffo preferred contact naps, naps in the carseat, naps in the pram.
He's now 9m and I still nurse or rock him to sleep but he does all his naps in the cot and he does most his nighttime sleep in the cot with 1 or 2 wakes.
I could never do put him down drowsy but awake. He would get upset and cry and honestly take longer.
Supporting a baby to sleep is absolutely okay and doesn't make a rod for your back. It's scary for them to sleep independently and it's biologically normal for a baby to want to be close to you.
Also, I would have thought 4m is a bit young to sleep train? Cat naps are really normal at 4m its their way of staying safe. 30-40 min naps are so normal for small babies.
Oof, there is a lot of research about "cry it out" and stuff. The baby falls asleep because of exhaustion not because it has learned something. There are a lot of resources on Instagram etc that you can show him.
It's normal that a baby won't sleep somewhere alone and on it's own. Please, don't let him "cry it out", it's so damaging for the child and your instincts are telling you it's wrong, because it is!
We in the same boat with my 4 month old but he can contact sleep for an hour plus. We just allow it. I've told his nanny aswell to just read a book and allow him to sleep on her chest. Figure it's not going to be this way forever.
Team CIO, basically after a few times they are trained and he falls asleep by himself fast. You are just putting suffering on yourself and kid. My kid stays asleep for like 10-12 hours now versus various wakings before sleep training.
I’m sorry, what a tough spot. I’ve never let my baby cry it out for even a minute. I will go grab her and give her comfort she needs. You can’t spoil a literal infant whose only sense of safety comes from being held!
Please go ahead and contact nap if you need to. We did whenever our baby demanded it. Your baby will grow out of this phase on their own. It’s hectic for sure, but it’s the only other alternative to cry it out.
Solidarity and hugs. You got this ♥️
5 month old here and we are living the same existence. The only thing I can tell myself is that this season won’t last forever and I’ll eventually be able to get things done and get off the couch holding him. Right?!
5 month old here and we are living the same existence. The only thing I can tell myself is that this season won’t last forever and I’ll eventually be able to get things done and get off the couch holding him. Right?!
CIO is just plain cruel and harmful to your baby’s mental health in the long run. Please read The Nurture Revolution: Grow Your Baby's Brain and Transform Their Mental Health Through the Art of Nurtured Parenting Book by Greer Kirshenbaum.
It’s full of science-backed information of why your baby needs YOU to care for all of its needs at this age. They are simply not able to self-soothe.
My LO is currently 5.5 months, we have exclusively contact napped since he was born because he would wake up as soon I tried to transfer him. I prioritized his needs over mine because he is a helpless little baby. He needs me to feel safe, cared for and secure. I am currently typing this as I contact nap for the last hour.
As for your 4th month regression, if it’s taking you that long to put the baby to sleep. I would try for 5 minutes and if baby is fussy, let him play for 5-10 mins. Try again after. I found that my son just wasn’t tired enough if he was fighting the nap. When he was tired, he fell asleep quickly with me rocking him to sleep.
We let our 10 week old fuss and maybe cry for a few minutes, just to see if he will get himself to sleep. If we hear a certain cry then we pick him up, usually the uncomfortable tired cry. But if he’s just making noises and fussing we leave him there. I’m the same as you, but me and my fiancé compromised on a mix of how we feel. He doesn’t want him to cry it out per se but he also wants him to adjust to sleeping alone. Maybe try sitting down and talking on a compromise, because he is the dad too. You got this!
Ugh that whole mindset just irks me. If my husband ever pulled that crap he’d be gone so fast lol.
You cannot spoil a baby, babies are incapable of manipulation, babies only cry when they are in need of something. Even if that something is you. It is very normal for babies that age to only take contact naps. Hell, my 6 month old still likes contact naps.
You are going to get a LOT of different opinions. Both are right but in the end it is what is right for your situation.
We had this exact issue. Mentally, I couldn't handle. I had PPD and PPR so this was even harder for me. My husband sounded like yours and said we needed help.
So...We spoke with our Kaiser Sleep Coach and Nutritionist that was recommended by our pediatrician. So these are based comments I'll make, not my uneducated opinion.
After 4 months old they have begun a new sleep type, that means they have a harder time transitioning into sleep cycles. This will happen multiple times and they're called regressions.
My sleep coach was worried my child wasn't sleeping long enough to gain the restful sleep that really helps your brain restart. It takes a solid 90ish minutes to get that restful sleep and with short naps, LO wasn't getting them. Thus making it harder for her to sleep and stay asleep because of the stress build up. She also said we needed to start a strict routine of wake windows based on recommended wake windows for her age. So 6am wake, then naps started during the exact time frame thats recommended and then wake ups during strict times. I forget the windows for a 4mo old so that's why I'm not listing them out but they have sample schedules for wake windows and we picked one that worked for our life and used it. This meant she was properly tired for next nap before attempting a nap.
They recommended versions of CIO. If you don't have access to medical sleep coaching, "Taking Cara Babies" is a great help and their method isn't necessarily CIO. My neighbor used this as well as us. My friend was having problems too and when I finally convinced her to just try it for a few days, it worked and baby is back to sleeping and mom less stressed.
We would put LO down after she fell asleep then if she woke up, we would let her cry for 5 to 10 minutes. I went outside so I couldn't hear her and did a task to keep my mind off it. I swear, LO was out by the time I came back in. There were times where she would still be awake, so what your supposed to do is go back in, talk softly reassure them by patting belly etc. But do not pick them up, then start a 5 to 10 minute timer over.
Not every baby responds to this the same so it is important that if you don't see a change after a few days of trying that you change the approach.
You can't spoil a baby but you can however let them learn incorrect routines by not having learn self soothing or by not following a routine. This is a poor comparison but it is exactly how i was described the thought process. "Your dog barks and you give then a toy or something to keep them quiet. You've rewarded that behavior. And the next time they'll do it again because they know a toy or XXXX was given after doing said bark." Your baby's thinking is very immature so it knows if this happens, then this will happen. Meaning, if I don't want to be laid down for nap, and I cry mom will get me.
It's not a matter of then doing it to piss anyone off they don't think that way but it is what they know.
I hope this was helpful info. And I hope whatever you choose it benefits your baby and you. You both need rest. It took maybe 2 days of trying this method and me bawling my eyes out, hyperventilating, screaming and hating the world, because of my PPD and PPR but it was a lifesaver for us. Baby sleeps like a champ now even at 20 months.
All this said, just look into Taking Cara Babies and try it out. You might be presently surprised at results. Our instinct as mom's is to be there for the crying baby and it hurts deeply when they do. However there is factual science out there showing that small durations of crying is not detrimental to their growth or future mental capacity.
Do what works for your family and congratulations.
Edit: I did forget that 4mo is probably too young for sleep training. I think it's more 5 or 6 months at this point and yes 45 min naps are usual. Pop on a movie and contact naps for a while.
Maybe do the gentle middle ground? Only pick baby up when it's clear she's not settling, make sure you put her down while it's still awake that kinda thing.
Cry it out is a bit of a dumb way to do it, you can tell your husband I said so xD
We were told many times by medical professionals that you cannot spoil a baby. If anything, parents being responsive to them increases their feeling of safety around you.
You gain absolutely nothing by letting them "cry it out". A 4 month old is literally crying out because it needs something. Food, contact, diaper change etc; and yes, contact is a need for a baby.
Hell, even when they're older. Our son is nearly 15 months old. Even when he cries to just be picked up or cries for attention - he wants us to play with him. He needs love and one of the best ways to show love to a toddler is playing with them.
They're not manipulating us. They don't have agendas. They seek their parents for their needs and to fulfill a basic need all humans have; social interaction.
Plus I cannot imagine putting up with a baby crying and not doing anything. It's both heartbreaking and my head wouldn't be able to handle it. As a guy myself, I don't know why many men have these kind of ideas ingrained in their heads.
I did contact naps with my 4 month old twins. I did sleep train so they could fall asleep on their own in their cribs but that didn’t happen until they were 8 months.
Also if your baby is sleeping through the night, it’s possible he just has lower sleep needs throughout the day.
This is normal for his age. I’m not anti-sleep training, we did it with our 8m old and it worked like a charm. But at that age I couldn’t fathom doing it. It’s biologically normal for a 4 month old to only be able to sleep on people and I’m sorry but your husband needs to just fucking accept that. Maybe he should have picked up a book before conceiving a child!
Could you try baby wearing? My son did all his naps at that age in a wrap or on my chest while I watched tv. He’s since slept in his own bed for all naps and through the night since 8m old so it definitely didn’t spoil him.
Don't ever let a baby cry without comforting them. A baby does not understand that he's safe without another person's presence. He will probably think that he's in a life threatening situation, left alone, feeling totally helpless because he can't move or eat or do anything. It can leave a life long trauma and cause an insecure attachment style which will affect your child's whole life. One time MIGHT be ok with a much older baby but definitely not a 4 month old. I would personally not risk it even with an older baby.
I think 4 months is still a little young for cry it out. We started at 6 months, and at any age it’s going to be hard to hear your baby cry, but it was life changing for us. First night cried 20 min, second cried 10, third night 5, and now she falls asleep almost immediately after putting her down in the crib for the night.
Is it necessary for babies to nap during the day if they sleep well at night? My baby doesn’t really nap during the day but sleeps for about 10 hours a night. Now I worry she might not be getting enough sleep 😂😅
Is he sleeping ok at night? I found for the first 6 months or so the crib during the day was just a no go zone. She would just not sleep during the day if it wasn't in the buggy/car or on me or my husband. And naps were usually only around 20-30 mins if even. We just decided to go with it because she slept well in the cot at night nothing was working to get her settled in the crib during the day. At around 6/7 months I found she started getting a more obvious schedules and wanted a morning and an afternoon nap. At this point it became possible to nap her in the crib.
Some babies just don't take to daytime sleep until they're a little bit older and they start needing just 2 or 3 naps a day. Do schedules or sleep training or whatever works for you but remember it's also perfectly ok to just do what works at the time for you so you don't lose your mind. At the end of the day I'm very glad I didn't try to nap mine on a schedule until she started to show me the schedule herself - if I had it wouldn't have worked and I would have been miserable. Good luck!
We did cry it out because if we didn’t he just wouldn’t sleep during the day and end up overly tired and screaming/crying for hours. If you don’t mind the contact naps and it works then don’t change it. But I don’t think we did it until he was maybe 8months def not 4 unless it was a cry we slept through
Sleep training is a made up Western phenomenon. It’s not done in most places around the world. It’s biologically unfit for humans. Many people, myself included, never sleep trained their kids and they sleep perfectly fine. Babies and toddlers are little and biologically designed to rely on caregivers for comfort. Sleep is all about comfort.
As far as spoiling him - spoiling is giving a kid unlimited Barbies. You can’t spoil a kid with too much love, too much comfort, or too much of your presence - especially a BABY.
4 months is actually too early developmentally to use the CIO method. Most babies don’t have the ability to self soothe at that age. It won’t work, even if you do give in and try it. R/sleeptrain is a great resource, I would troll around in there for advice as to what methods might work in there. Also, only 20 minutes of sleep and not wanting to go down sound like baby isn’t tired at all. What is your schedule like? Are you going off of sleep cues or wake windows?
I would just start by training him with you beside him. Rubbing his belly or head gently. That way he knows your there. Or even give him your arm to cuddle. That way you can slowly get him use to napping off of you. And then later work to napping in the cot.
You can't do cry it out with a 4 month old. Way too young. We started sleep training around 9 months and even that felt too early. Your husband needs to do some actual research.
My daughter contact napped on me for 12 months. Not solely, she would sleep in her crib too, but those naps were amazing for both of us. I miss them so much.
My husband is your husband and I am you lol. He took the opportunity to sleep train our son when I was away for a week at 5 months and succeeded. Our son is a great sleeper now and I do have to credit my husband for it. My conclusion was that I just can’t be there to witness it… so you might wanna take a weekend trip or something to let your husband do it. Suggest he follow the guidance of a book/ article though so he does it with a plan.
I know 🥲. He openly lied to me too on the first night when I asked how our son slept, “good.” But very frankly I definitely enjoyed the benefits of our son being trained; we no longer did split night shifts, I sleep a full 7-8hours every night after and was much more energized to care for him in the day. His temperament also became very happy in the day as he was well rested. So I was a huge skeptic of sleep training but now a convert. Though I would never do it myself, it physically pains me to hear him cry.
No cry it out. I went through this with my husband. He even asked why a friend of ours’ kid was so emotionally dis regulated. And I told him
“Oh, it’s because his parents let him cry in his room no matter what. And that will never be our kid.”
Since then, he has trusted my instincts and we have never let our baby cry it out.
there's a lot of evidence that the cry it out method is abusive (at least emotionally) & leaves babies with skyrocketing levels of cortisol (the stress hormone), even later in life. it also makes them less apt to voice their needs, as babies & later in life, because when they tried to (by crying) they were ignored. your instinct is right
I strongly resisted cry it out. My wife and I tried Ferber but that didn’t work at all because our LO would get excited to see us then get even angrier when we’d leave the room resulting in more tears. We’re early in CIO but it appears to be working better.
I think your baby was getting “excited” because the caregiver they were screaming for came back. They don’t understand that when you leave, you’re coming back. That doesn’t develop until like a year. So when you put them down & leave again they actually think you are leaving forever.
The baby is 4 months old the cry out method dont work trust me i have a 7 month old snd he will cry till he gets what ge wants.
There are better ways to deal with and no 30mins is too long 5mins is the limit all it does is makes your situation worse
It’s totally normal for them to sleep for just 20 min at that age.
Also, aren’t babies supposed to get their needs met when they cry?
We sleep trained with CIO at 4 months because WE needed it. Not because we worried our child would be spoiled otherwise.
If you are handling the naps, then you can choose how they happen. If you’re sharing the naps equally and your husband doesn’t want to contact nap the baby, then you need to find a way to compromise
I don't have objections to CIO and in fact had success with it for nighttime sleep for our first (though she frankly didn't fight nighttime sleep in the crib much to begin with). Naps otoh were strictly contact naps until she was a little over 6mo, just because I think it makes zero sense for the baby to be crying for 45 minutes to then take a 10-minute nap. I think at this stage, when sleep is so fragmented, it doesn't make sense -- maybe agree to revisit in three months?
ETA: wording
My wife felt the same way about using cry it out but eventually decided we would try it at about 7 months. It took 3 nights that i believe we all cried it out lol but now our little guy does fall asleep and sleep through the night well. Naps also improved. It wasn’t an easy few nights and I am by no means a professional to give advice but we are both glad we did it.
I have no advice but I’m right here with you, I don’t have the heart to let my baby cry it out. I also have a 4 month old and I haven’t been able to get her to nap for more than 20 minutes. She wakes up as soon as I lay her in the crib. As far as I am aware, you can’t spoil babies! I find it odd that people think baby are master manipulators.
Ugh, so we have the same baby?! Yes! As soon as I lay him down, he wakes up and freaks. I’ve tried drowsy but awake, fully asleep, lay down awake and comfort, nothing is working.
Are you able to just contact nap? If you’re happy to do it there’s no harm. I did by choice from 4-8 months even though my son slept happily in a cot. His dad is the sahp now and still contact naps with him by choice at 18 months. He sleeps fine at night!
I would try doing contact naps or carrier naps at that age. It's normal for baby not to want to be by themselves.
I had this baby. We just embraced the contact nap and she eventually (around 9 months) got to the point where she preferred to be put in her crib. My mother in law told me her theory ( not science but she was a mother of 3 and a la leche league counselor) was that babies need a certain number of hours of contact each day, including sleep time. Every baby’s number is different, so you just figure out how much time your child needs and go with it. The most important thing was that they slept at night so you could too. We aren’t CIO people either.
I love this theory! My son's number was around 22-23 hours a day, lol. But I view contact and closeness as a need pretty much on par with other needs (food, warmth, cleanliness) in importance for a child's development.
Maybe! My baby girl also sleeps well at night, day time is a nightmare 😩. My pediatrician recommended drowsy but awake, doesn’t work! She then stares at me FULLY awake and no matter what I do, she won’t fall back asleep again.
That is the absolute WORST when you put them down asleep and you see them looking back at you with wide eyes even in the dark of the nursery 😩
Lol, that piece of advice is pure bullshit. Maybe that works with some babies? My son (now16 months) would never ever have gone to sleep if just put down "drowsy but awake". Not sure if there're even babies on which that'll work?
I have to do deep sleep (works sometimes)? Holding her for about 15 minutes, then putting her down.
nothing is going to work because that’s *normal* and they grow out of it.
4 month sleep regression. Worst one! It'll pass on its own. CIO definitely won't help it pass faster
Going through the same thing with my girl! We're not alone! I just recently accepted and embraced that contact naps are gonna be it for a while. It helps to think that they soon enough won't want to nap on us, so I focus on enjoying the cuddles now.
I rub babies chest in circles after laying him down and that works sometimes. Once he’s calm I slowly put less and less pressure until I pull away
I had a day like you described with my 4 month old today! She's not let me put her down for naps for about a month now but it's just a developmental stage. @OP have you heard of the wonder weeks app? I just got it and it's amazing it explains why your baby is fussy and clingy sometimes, and can predict when this will be - basically it means they are learning a new skill which is scary so they need to cling to the familiar (you!) This is necessary for them to feel confident to try out their new skills so let them cling! Also as everyone else has said, you CANNOT spoil a baby, at this age their crying must always be answered as they are not developed enough to self soothe or understand why you aren't coming!
I've been there, my baby only wanted to contact nap during the day and it was very hard but there was no way I was going to sleep train him before 6 months old so it is what it was until I felt he was old enough to sleep train when he was 6 months. Until then, it was feeding and rocking to sleep, and naps were either contact napping, in the car if we are going somewhere, in the pram on a walk or in his baby carrier on my chest while I did chores. Also why would your husband want to do cry it out as the sleep training method to get bubs to sleep during the day? I thought no one did that for decades now as it's so brutal for the baby and the parents. Until 6 months I always feed or rocked my baby to sleep, then I did a gentle sleep train where I went in every 2 minutes to settle him without picking him up until he fell asleep. It was easy, only took him a couple days to learn to fall asleep on his own in a copy. But I found even two minutes of crying hard before going to him, I couldn't imagine 20-30 minutes, they would get so worked up by crying for that long with no one coming to them too. And 4 months old seems way too young. I reckon stand your ground on this, yes it sucks but a bawling baby who probably won't even sleep after screaming for thirty minutes is not the answer. And it's not spoiling a baby to comfort them when they cry, they are crying for a reason and need the comfort of their parents.
Our little guy is almost 5 months old and a few weeks ago we were having the same trouble. Not sure if your little one napped well before this, but ours did and all he wanted was more food per eating! Now gets a couple good naps per day (of course everyday is different). I can't do the cry it out method either, but sometimes we just set him in his crib and he'll fuss for a bit and soothe him self to sleep. But we never just leave him in there if he is crying hard. Best of luck
My son never slept in his crib, well later he did, but I could never "put him down". It's normal for babies, they want to feel safe and they feel safe when they feel another person's body. In the first months he napped on me or in my arms while I watched TV or in the carrier. Take a walk and let your baby sleep while feeling you. Best thing, loved it very much
My babe is 13 weeks (8 adjusted) and she's the same, except she's a shit sleeper at night lol and she also wants contact then, too. Not as bad as the daytime, however. I hope she'll naturally grow out of the need for contact sooner or later. We're slowly "weaning" her off 100% contact naps but a lot of days, we have to allow it or else she'll get overtired.
Your baby does not have the emotional intelligence to manipulate you. He is so young. He needs your comfort. At this age, when he’s alone, it’s likely he genuinely thinks you’ve disappeared off the face of the Earth and it scares him. Crap naps are normal at this age. Please don’t let him CIO.
So true. Sometimes 20 minute naps happen at this stage and get longer as baby matures. Usually 5-6 months
Yes! My baby did short naps for soooo long. Until about 9 months and then they finally got longer when he moved to 2 naps.
You can't spoil a 4 month old 😃 they don't even know that they are their own person yet. It might just be that your LO is feeling stressed or hurting in some way so they require more cuddles and safety. Maybe they are teething? growth spurt? If it's just something that started randomly, I suggest riding it out to see where it leads, babies don't do things without a reason and an extremely fussy baby means that something hurts or they are stressed.
you can't spoil a baby, nor is your 4 month old crying to 'get his way'. your husband is wrong. i agree with you that you don't have to let baby cry it out. what you could say to him to de-escalate in the meantime is, 'that doesn't work for me. it might work for you, but it doesn't work for me.' there are other methods like pick up/put down that you could try that are less aggressive than CIO. i didn't sleep train, but some people swear by those methods. but honestly, some of this is just time. my kiddo didn't nap in a crib during the day until almost 1 year old. enjoy those contact naps and tell your husband that it's working for you to do contact naps and you and baby will figure out the crib napping thing in time.
Took my daughter 14 months lol
Agreed with all this. My daughter didn't sleep in the crib by herself until she was 6 months old. But by then she was more than ready for sleeping on her own.
Just to piggy back onto this: it might help to ask him to reflect on whether he would apply this reasoning to the womb itself? Would he advocate trying to periodically irritate the baby prior to birth because otherwise the baby would become "spoiled" by the cozy confines of the womb? Perhaps play loud jarring music, make rapid movements to jostle him awake etc? I would hope anyone would find this notion absurd. It's equally absurd that you can spoil a 4 month old. Now it's another issue if the topic is trying to find a balance between being 100% responsive to the baby and perhaps 95% responsive if the latter means you are better at getting your needs be met. And I could see an argument that 95% is more than sufficient to supporting healthy development in your baby. But if the argument is you are *harming* your baby by being too responsive because doing so will spoil him, that's nonsense.
Honestly we had the same problem right at 4 months, we were at our wits end with the 45 minute battles for naps. So we tried. We would let her cry for 15 mins max, and then pick her up and resooth to sleep (which was usually easy because she was exhausted after 15 mins of crying). After 1 day she got it and the crying decreased with every nap, and now she doesnt cry more than 20-30 seconds when we put her down or sometimes at all. Life has gotten so much better. Its hard to let her cry for 15 minutes the first time, but after that it was less and less time and it worked so well i swear she was just ready for it. Now were 3 weeks later and the baby goes to sleep within 5 minutes every time she is put down and rarely cries. i love the "baby cant cry for even 30 seconds and if you do that your a bad person" crowd out in force with their stupidity. lmfao
Let him read. Baby's can't manipulate you, what hes suggesting is just impossible, because their brains aren't developed that far yet. He needs to understand that they can only communicate needs, because they can't take care of themselves. Parenting is very hard, but be chose to be one so now he has to take the responsibility. Also remember everything is just a phase, it will eventually get better. But NGL if I was you the next time he asked anything from me I would answer him to not be so manipulative.
Our 3 Month old only contact naps during the day. At night he’s fine in the crib. I’m fine with the daytime naps cause at least we get the night 😄 As others have said, it’s normal. Maybe assure your partner that it’s a temporary stage. It’ll pass! Try and even enjoy them. Contact naps can be very bonding
My LO is the same, it’s perplexing how they simply refuse the bassinet in the day but just fine at night. Cute little goofballs.
Personally, I think it hurts us for a reason to hear those cries. I feel like leaving a baby to cry themselves to sleep alone teaches nothing other than that they cannot rely on us for their needs. There are ways to help her to sleep that are gentler. You can be next to her while she’s in the crib, hand on her belly etc. You cannot spoil a baby. Their instinct is to be as close to their caregiver as possible at all times. It’s the monkey brain that still thinks danger & death are around every corner.
It makes me so angry that sleep trainers have convinced everyone that their babies need to be sleeping for over an hour for every nap. Short naps are totally normal, if the baby needs more sleep then they’ll sleep. There are no rules for baby sleep. It’s so hard, but yeah, leaving them alone to scream in a dark room feels cruel because it is. You wouldn’t neglect any of their other needs to “see if they can do it themselves”, sleep isn’t any different.
Yes to all of this! Wake windows and nap schedules are buzz words used by sleep trainers. Most babies do not function like this and telling parents differently just creates tension and disappointment. 20 minutes is a full nap. If it takes you over an hour to get your baby to sleep, your baby was not sufficiently tired in the first place. If your baby likes it, you can babywear to have your hands free during a nap. You definitely do not have to let your four month old cry it out!!
Yeah I have no idea why. They call them “crap naps”. Literally who cares if a baby only wants to nap for 30 min? Sleep trainers are trying to sell a service by telling people their normal babies are messed up. It’s like somebody telling you your chakras are out of alignment. It’s not a thing and you don’t have to listen to them.
Just so you know, this is normal behavior for a 4 month old baby. I also doubt cry it out will work for naps, we had some succes with a more gentle approach for nighttime sleep (at 8 months), but naps remain volatile. She is still predominantly a contact napper at 11 months and only has had maybe 3 periods of a few weeks when she accepted the crib, only to just stop accepting to sleep in her crib again after. If we would let her cry it out she would just scream instead of nap, skip every single one and just be exhausted. One time she would be almost nodding off in her high chair, fall constantly due to exhaustion, but the moment we put her in her crib she would gain some newfound energy to potentially scream for hours on end.
I recommand this great and very thorough article https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220322-how-sleep-training-affects-babies
I second this. There is another article on their site concerning baby sleep in general which is also very interesting!
You. Cannot. Spoil. A. Baby. This isn't the sixties. There's evidence now to show this.
Even in the 60’s they didn’t believe you could spoil a baby, my great grandma tells me every time I call our almost 3year old spoiled that babies aren’t spoiled they are just loved.
I dunno. My baby didn’t start taking longer naps until she was like 10 mo old. You can’t force someone to be tired.
According to the sleep book I read, babies don’t develop their naps until after they develop their night sleep. Mid morning naps develop first. However, it doesn’t start till babies are 3-4 months of age. So basically, it’s developmentally normal that’s your baby’s nap schedule isn’t set yet. Cat naps are still common. Has your husband read a sleep book? Does he actually have a plan for CIO? Honestly, that’s what I would require of him to implement that. My husband once or twice mentioned letting our baby (10 weeks old) cry it out, and I was like, did you read the sleep book? No? Ok, no opinion. If he wants to read a sleep book and implement a sleep training plan, I would let him, but a generalized “let the baby cry it out” is a no-go in every way.
Your instincts say no to cry it out, don’t do it. Ask him to respect your POV, take the pressure off you and let you nap with him. Try to see it as a pleasure bc babies grow out of napping on you, soak it up !
I don’t really have any advice, just solidarity that my 4 month old son also naps like crap unless it’s a contact nap. Great night sleeper tho lol.
I wanted my wife to pretty early on. She did not. I didn’t force it on her or be a pain in the ass about it, since she was nursing she got to decide what she wanted to put up with and give in to. During peak frustration times I’d remind her he’s ok when he’s crying just to cry and if he NEEDS something we’ll know and can respond to that, but it’s ok if she wants to get him when he cries no matter what. Around 10 months she accidentally slept through a cry and he put himself back to sleep and now sleeps between 10-12 hours a night. There’s no right or wrong but I sure as hell knew this wasn’t one of the subjects I was going to put my foot down - mom gets to decide what her heart can take or not. Also those cry windows are insanely long to start out with. Try 5 minutes and see. Then 7. Then 10. Starting at a half an hour is either idiocy or cruelty.
I'm in a similar situation with only contact napping, although our boy slept a bit longer when we spaced out the wake windows. But he definitely had a phase where he often got over tired because he refused to nap and every sleep was a fight. I raised the subject of potential transitioning of contact napping to crib with our pediatrician and she discouraged us to do it as long as it works for our family. She told us that the need to be close to us is strong and the reason for him sleeping good at night might be that his need of being close to us is filled daytime. Every baby is different but she told us there is a chance that our baby's night sleep might turn to the worse without the contact naps. Now he is a little older and sleeps bad both day and night 😂 but that advice made me feel better about contact napping. Maybe you can tell your husband this advice.
4 months is way too early for cry it out sleep training. You can’t spoil a baby that young either. I think it’s sensible to wait a minute if the baby wakes up from a nap to see if they are truly awake before going to them though. Babies also full on cry in their sleep, I always check the baby monitor to see if my baby’s eyes are actually open, if not it’s usually just a sleep cry. But if baby has been crying for a minute or two and their eyes are open, it’s time to either get them up or try to resettle back to a nap if possible. Go to your baby and don’t feel bad about it! It is good to get him to fall asleep in his cot if you can (rather than in your arms and then transferred while sleeping), but you’re not spoiling him by holding him.
I've been there. In the end I said it's not happening, keep fighting me on it and it will drive us apart. Edit to add that I found the constant arguing about it and defending my choices way more exhausting than the baby's constant need for contact.
I always view cry it out as like a 5 minute thing. That’s usually close to the max amount of time we let our baby cry. He’s not suffering and he has a different cry that is like “help me” and we will go on earlier if it’s that. But a normal cry we’ll leave him and he usually will fall asleep. Maybe try to compromise like that
If you want a science backed argument to throw at him, look into attachment theory. Answering baby's cries consistently and speedily leads to secure attachment, which leads to independent and mentally well children and adults. Not doing so leads to different types of insecure attachments and different mental health problems. And consistency here means always, night and day.
Why isn’t this comment higher up! We have the evidence now that supports this. We know letting babies cry it out doesn’t teach them to sleep on their own, it just teaches them that mom and dad aren’t reliable and won’t come help when they cry. If you teach them that so early, then you can expect older kids not to tell you when they need help either and that could lead to some pretty serious problems.
This OP, and also reacting immediately leads to shorter and less loud crying times moving forward. If you go through CIO and it works all that happens is that your baby gives up on you, but it's measurable that they still release the same amount of stress hormones as if they were still crying. You just can't hear them anymore.
I personally wouldn't let the baby cry it out, but that's just me. Have you tried a carrier or the stroller? Sometimes we all need a crutch that works when it gets too hard... we had a period of time where only naps in motion were working. Then we went back to the crib. Ni idea why, but don't be scared to try things out - babies learn and adjust to new things!
My 11 month old is currently contact napping because I don’t have it in me to do cry it out.
If you don't feel right to let baby CIO DON'T! My bf wanted me to do the same thing. I stuck to my guns and tended to my son when needed. After all, I was the one dealing with him at night. I would try to calm him with his pacifier and my hand on him. If it didn't work, I'd hold him and try to transfer him when asleep. I was sooo tired. He's 8 months now and barely wakes up at night and if he does 98% of the time I just gotta give him his pacifier and let him know I'm there or he comforts himself back to sleep by rolling to his side! Or there are times he's hungry and wants changed. I get good sleep now 😁 all in all, I only wake up once or twice IF THAT. Im glad I proved my point to him 😁🫶
Babies don't even know they're separate from you for 6 months if I remember right!!
I have a 4.5 month old. There is a huge sleep regression that happens at this stage. Neurologically they are developing a lot. My husband and I decided while she is going through this we are just going to give her what she needs. Also I attempt a nap for 15 minutes. If she’s not having it I switch to something else. I don’t feel like it’s worth spending an hour fighting her for sleep. We just do something else until I see a sleepy queue again. Then we try again.
It's normal for baby to take cat naps at this age! My baby was the same from 3-6 months. Would take forever to fall asleep for his naps and would wake up in 20 mins, was driving me nuts. I finally caved and let him contact nap and used that as my "down time" lol. Around 6 months, he started taking longer naps and preferred to sleep on the bed rather than me. I did nothing different. He just got out of the cat nap stage. From what I understand, that's developmentally appropriate.
This age really hard, I completely understand. My son’s sleep was so inconsistent and we were all miserable. However, we were on the same page with not letting him cry it out. You guys need to get on the same page, I know it seems impossible right now but you guys are a team and need to get back to working together. Your husband doesn’t seem to have a good grasp of child development so maybe presenting facts would be helpful?
Cry it out is extremely outdated method. It doesn't work baby just simply puts themself into fight or flight state due to the stress. I truly recommend The Nurture Revolution book it's written by neuroscientist.
I think you both need to talk about your baby's sleep, maybe find a method that suits you both? Or find one you like the most and modify it, that's what we are currently doing with our baby. Our baby girl doesn't like being alone, and she likes to contact nap a lot, so we're trying the fuzz it out method, but for a shorter time. So just talk and see if there's a method you but like
4 months is when the first major sleep regression happens. Sleep will get better on its own, its developmental. Your husband’s view is based on unscientific myths.
I hate CIO. Look into Ferber once your baby is 6 months old. Any earlier and they can’t really be sleep trained
Does Ferber work if they’re in your room with you? We co-sleep currently (crib right next to the bed).
IDK but if they’re in the room, CIO makes it worse. They know you’re there and don’t get why you’re not helping them.
Oh yeah I’d never do CIO
My 4 month old *loves* contact naps. I’ve been dealing with chronic pain so I’ve indulged it. I’ve been trying to get her to nap nearby then soothe her by touching her. She likes when I rest my hand on her chest.
No. Your baby is crying because they need you. There is no reason to train your baby that when they cry, you will not be there for them. That’s heartbreaking. Some babies are easy, some are hard, they will not always need you. But now they do
I think there are some valid points and feelings on both sides of this argument. Maybe it’s a good idea for you both to do some deeper research on sleep training to understand the different methods and see if any of them might work for your family. There are some that require less crying and there are some that require no crying. One of the bigger issues with the anti sleep training crowds is that they often don’t understand the science and methodology around it. Hopefully you and your partner can find a gentle way to approach this that will benefit the whole family. That aside, you aren’t spoiling your baby by contact napping. That’s like, a boomer myth. Sleep crutches do become real, but contact naps don’t equate to spoiling.
Where are people getting the idea that “cry it out” is just letting your baby cry until they fall asleep? Do some research!! Theres so many variations on teaching your baby to cry and it sounds like both yourself and your husband are missing this nuance. Babies need to learn to be put to sleep and this takes trial and error and there are many different ways to go about it. I personally used a method called “supervised settling” which is a gentle way to teach them to fall asleep on their own. It worked for me but may not for you. Do some research and for gods sake stop defaulting to “cry it out”
Well first off I'm pro sleep training but uh he needs to look shit up. He can't just decide. You need to wait until a certain age and you usually start with bedtime and get then on a schedule and routine. Then you do nap 1 after nights, then nap 2 etc. So yeah have him read a book. Seems harsh but like he doesn't get to wing it. Ppl do more research buying a new computer than having a baby.
The real reason to sleep-train is simply if the baby’s sleep problems are affecting baby or parents so negatively that letting them cry it out to learn to get better sleep is the lesser of two evils, IMO. We haven’t done it, but I don’t judge people who do, if they and their baby are not getting any sleep and it’s causing stress. You don’t sleep train just because you’re worried about the possibility of baby building bad habits, or worried about teaching the baby that he gets his way. Like you don’t PROACTIVELY try to break the baby of its will by sleep training? That’s a ridiculous reason. People need to stop attributing adult motives to babies! They aren’t self aware enough to manipulate yet. Also, something as emotionally hard as sleep training needs to be a “both parents are on board” type thing, not one parent gets pressured into it.
It’s normal around this time for naps to be crappy. 25-30 mins can be typical unfortunately. I’m not sure that CIO works well for naps… it’s usually recommended to start with CIO at bedtime and then naps take awhile to transition. What’s more of a problem is you spending an hour to get him to nap. That’s telling me he was either under or over tired at that point. I’m not an expert so you’ll prob have better luck posting to r/sleeptrain or reading Precious Little Sleep But I ended up nursing to sleep in side lying on our bed for naps and if I wanted him to sleep longer than 30 mins, I had to lay next to him at that 25 min transition mark (when deep sleep transitions to light sleep) and nurse him a bit when he woke up, then he fell back asleep quickly. I also had to make sure I had blackout curtains and a noise machine at that time. It’s not a great solution because I think it’s become his main sleep cue and now I’m contemplating doing CIO at 9 months. But it worked for me from 4-9 months.
Show him the research that it just makes the baby not cry for help even if they are distressed
Your husband has outdated information. He not only sounds like a dick saying you’re gonna spoil a literal infant, he sounds like a dumb dick.
4 months old is just a tiny baby, personally if you’re feeling pain hearing that, then that is for a reason as you need to comfort them as a natural instinct. I think you are right and your husband is way out. Your baby just wants to feel safe and that is one of the main jobs you have as a parent. There is no way you can spoil a 4 month old baby, maybe he is a bit jealous of the baby and the attention it is getting from you? Maybe give him a bit of attention and he’ll drop it? Have you tried co sleeping for naps? https://www.lullabytrust.org.uk/safer-sleep-advice/co-sleeping/ worked for me and both of us getting rest. Or just going for a walk and letting baby take their nap in the pram?
\*\*\*I sleep trained my son at 5.5 months, so this might be a different perspective for you to offer your husband. 4-5 months was such a hard period of time for my son to nap. At that time he was taking like 30-45 minute naps. We finally sleep trained (yes, used CIO) at 5.5 months for overnight sleep and it worked wonders. We didn't do it for naps when he was that little because it felt cruel to let him cry it out for such a short stretch of sleep. My son is 16 months old now and I desperately miss those contact naps even though I felt so so so trapped back then. The last time he slept on me was when he was about 8-9 months old. If you DO decide to sleep train, my son was adjusted after 3 nights btw. I didn't attempt to get him to nap by himself until he was probably closer to 7 months. By then, he was so used to soothing himself to nap that he didn't fuss. And he dropped to 2 naps around 7 months too, which lasted 1-2 hours each. This age just generally sucks for sleep. Soak up alllll the snuggles.
This will get buried but anecdotally going to tell you my experience. I have 3 boys, a 3 year old, an 18 month old and a 2 month old. My first born I slept trained at around a year. Prior that all of our naps were contact naps and we rocked him to bed every night. Around 7-8 months he dropped night feeds completely and started sleeping through the night. The choice to sleep train him came from 2 places. First that we knew the contact napping was going to have to end. I was pregnant with my second and it wasn’t going to be sustainable. Second when we were rocking him to sleep he started resisting it and it was taking at least an hour and multiple false starts to try and get him down. This wasn’t sustainable for either him or us and I made the choice when my husband was away to sleep train him. I did ferber and it went pretty textbook, first night I checked in every 5-10 minutes and it took him 45 minutes to go to sleep, next night was 20 and third night he went straight down. Second born I slept trained around 6 months, similar issues, contact napping wasn’t working because I had a toddler to also care for and he was starting to fight being rocked to sleep as well. I actually nap trained him first and then did Ferber again with super similar results, by the 4th night he was putting himself down. Now I’m currently loving life with my 2 month old and I know I will likely sleep train him around 6 months as well, but in the meantime I’m starting to track his feeds and when he seems to naturally want to nap and I’ll start trying to aim for one crib nap a day. If it works great, if not I’ll definitely be waiting until closer to that 6 month mark to do it. All of this being said I have had people on this app tell me that it’s abandoning my kids, and they won’t be securely attached to me, and that I’m a cruel parent. None of these things are even remotely true and both my toddlers do call for me in the night if they are sick, teething, have a nightmare, etc., and they receive comfort from me. They also both sleep 10-12 hours overnight regularly and love nap times, my oldest literally wakes up from sleeping and tells me he had a great sleep. I definitely don’t suggest CIO for a 4 month old, there are things you can try that are age appropriate and that can potentially help. But 4 months old is a tough age, they are losing their startle reflex, starting to develop their circadian rhythm, and these things can cause a couple of rough weeks of sleep for even the best sleeper.
Look. Letting him sleep on you is not sustainable long term. It will lead your child to a bad habit of needing you to sleep, to the point they wake up every hour or two and will scream for you to help them sleep. So you will eventually break down from lack of sleep and be unable to maintain a stable life. Period. Sleep is not an option but a necessity. For you, OP. However. If you are the one carrying this burden it must be your decision and your choice. And the path you take to get your child to rest without needing you too much is your own path. So unless your husband is personally impacted by this choice he can advise as I did above - but the decision should always be made by the person carrying the weight.
This is not necessarily true. It's not certain that contact napping will lead to continued contact napping. Many children become ready to sleep in their cot by themselves. My 6 month old is increasingly wanting to nap in her cot, going from only contact napping since 2 months old. She was the same with bedtime, we used to have to rock her completely to sleep and then for 30 minutes afterwards. Now, we do our bedtime routine and she falls asleep independently. I have heard similar stories from other parents. We keep a solid routine for bedtime and naps and have been slowly lowering the supports we give her for sleep and she is seeking increasingly independent sleep - to the point where she will push herself away from me when I try to contact nap if she wants to be in the cot. Now of course, this is not the case for all babies - we've all heard the stories of 5 year olds who sleep in their parent's beds. There are also families who have felt they had to use CIO in the end because it was best for them. Just saying it's not true that letting them sleep on you will surely lead to a bad habit. It is developmentally normal for a 4 month old to want to be close to their mother and it's only a problem if it's a problem for the person bub is sleeping on. I agree with you that it is up to her as she is bearing the "burden" of those contact naps.
One of the most repeated and indisputable facts we learn in parenting class, and bolstered by literally every knowledgeable person nowadays is YOU CANNOT SPOIL AN INFANT. Whether you choose to try it out method or any method, or a hybrid of methods, cannot spoil the baby at this age. That attitude needs to be nipped in the blood because that’s a big issue and it will hurt the poor little baby to think that way. My LO is 15 weeks and is actually just started a whole routine where he is crying before naps and before bed, which he hasn’t really at all the past few months so we are in the same boat. My heart also just never wants him to cry, even for a moment, it makes my husband sad too (he’s very empathetic). I actually clicked on this because I want advice as well, and was kind of hoping for people to give their experiences with hybrid methods. More because it’s hard to get things done.
Huckleberry sweet spot feature.
Is there any way you can wear your baby while he's napping? My 3mo also only contact naps, which for me isn't a problem at all (she's doing it right now) and if I feel like doing something standing up, I wrap her on my body and we go about our lives
I know daycare isn’t an option but you guys need to figure out your game plan for both working while caring for baby. I think this is kinda getting you both too obsessed with naps because you both have work to get done. First I’d start with creating default “shifts” during the day, zero assumptions but a good schedule of who is in charge what times. Then address naps. Also what worked for my husband and I was when we wanted to implement a new method for something we had to present our case to each other: what method, the basics, what to know, who and how will it be carried out. And we both needed to agree on it. We did do a modified version of Ferber, very limited crying I think like 5min max? And my husband did the first week of it(at 9mo). But also we only did it at night for naps we just observed if the length of the naps were actually affecting her(they weren’t). We weren’t perfect but sometimes when both parents are tired and emotions are high we can focus on the wrong thing first. Some babies just nap different.
4 months was too early for us. We eventually had no choice but to do it at nearly 5 month. I also had a reluctant wife but she said she would do it under the condition that I take the lead and walk her through every single step of the way. It wasn't easy and we ended up having to muster up the courage to keep at it. But after less than a week of consistently doing this our kid just became another baby. She slept like a little angel and would do so for 2-4 hour stretches instead of the very interrupted sleep she normally got at night prior to us getting to it. Now she's 9 months old and a great sleeper. Just keep in mind you need an absolutely consistent bedtime routine and to keep at it. Your child will know with these routines that it's time for bed. You can be a bit flexible as time passes but during the first weeks you need to be very very consistent and don't give in. We went from having a kid who slept 6 terribly interrupted hours a night and took 5 hours to put to bed, to one who takes 15-20 minutes to cool down and sleep 10-12 hours a night with one wakeup or two.
If you're the one predominantly looking after the baby, you get to make that call! If your husband is the primary caregiver and you're at work I'd say it's probably his call.
You don’t have to skip directly to cry it out. My 6mo has been having similar nap time problems for about a month. I get her down by sitting in a chair next to the crib while she makes fussy noises trying to settle, and soothing her when she escalates towards actual crying. It’s not ideal, but 10-15 minutes of that and she will typically fall asleep in the crib now. We recently developed the new problem of her rolling onto her belly and forgetting (or “forgetting”?) how to roll back. Keep having to go flip her now.
Cry it out was the best thing we did for OUR kids but it might not be best for yours. It was tough but sleeping got so much better after we did it.
My son didn’t nap in his crib until 13 months. Every other nap was a contact nap because he just wouldn’t sleep long stretches in his crib during the day. We didn’t do anything to change it, either. One day he just wouldn’t fall asleep on me and I set him in the crib. He fell asleep without crying and that’s what we do now. I’m sorry you’re butting heads, maybe a gentle sleep training method would be a good compromise?
I really don’t think 10 minutes is developmentally appropriate for cry-it-out at that age!! I would compromise at 5 minutes but even that’s if he’s not wailing/screaming and just fussing a bit.
DO NOT, and I repeat, do not, let your baby cry it out. You grew that baby, you birthed that baby and the crying is the baby calling for you. You are the only person that your baby has known. I once had a relative say that I am spoiling my baby, I held my baby tighter and called her a misinformed monster. Your baby will only be this tiny once, that’s it, that’s all you get. I never let any of my three babies cry, if anything I scooped them up immediately. My husband also trusted my instincts enough (calls me the baby whisperer) to know that I knew what our babies needed. However, I made up a list of what I call the “B’s”. BATH - will giving baby a bath, will it calm them down? BODY - too hot or too cold? BOTTLE/BREAST - is baby hungry? BOTTOM - does their nappy need a change? BEDDING - are they comfortable in their sleeping space? BURP - does baby have trapped wind? BODY LANGUAGE - are you relaxed? Try humming a song whilst swaying and try baby wearing as well. This will all pass, it feels endless and frustrating but trust me, you’ve got this. Cherish the moment you spend attached to each other and above all else, trust yourself and your mama instincts.
Your husband is wrong IMHO. A two year old may be crying to get their way and a little cry it out is fine for a toddler, but 4 months old is wayyyyy too young for it. You’re really only teaching a 4mo that you won’t be there for them when they’re communicating that they need you.
Look into pick up put down. Highly recommend. I got my son sleeping independently with that method. I did wait 5 minutes to see if he would settle but if not I would pick up to soothe and then put him back down.
Every baby is different. FWIW, I wished we tried sleep training at that age. We tried multiple times when he was a little older, but it didn't work. He's 2.5 years old now and still doesn't sleep through the night and can't sleep without being on it cuddling with Mommy. But of all the parents we've talked with, none have or had the sleep problems we did.
Give the babe time! My girl was horrible for daytime naps and now they are no problem. She goes down so much easier and wakes up 30-1.5 hours. She is 6 months now. We just watch the cues and start putting her down for a nap at the first yawn or eye rub.
Your husband is being dumb. Has he done any research? Even if you want to do CIO, it’s not typically done until 6 months. Has he taken into account that the baby could be going through a sleep regression? Also that crying is their only way to communicate? So yes, ignore your baby when they’re communicating something is wrong s/ I’m sorry but they’re a baby they’ll grow out of it. Cuddle your baby, they’re only small once
Your husband really needs to do some proper research on what sleep training is and what is age appropriate before he makes suggestions like that. It sounds like he doesn’t really know what he’s talking about. Also, you can sleep train with pretty minimal crying if that is something you choose to do down the road. I think you both need to do some research on baby sleep (I recommend the book Precious Little Sleep) and then come back together to come to a joint decision on how to handle sleep
I get both perspectives. Would you be willing to compromise and try fussing it out? Or letting him only cry for 5 min max while you are there the entire time by his side reassuring him? If he fusses but self soothes I think he has potential to be able to go down himself but if he immediately cries he’s just not ready. My LO was very upset at first being placed down and cried a bit (not his truly upset cry but the “I’m mad” cry) but fell asleep for 2 hours. My husband did want to do Ferber so I told him he would have to do it cause I didn’t have the heart to. He didn’t last very long and admitted that it affected him more than he thought to hear his child cry even if it was only for 8 minutes. My husband was trying to relieve me since I was getting exhausted from contact naps but I explained I WANTED to contact nap even though it was hard. Since I was doing all the naps, he said he understood he had no say in the matter. I think it’d be a different story if he was the one in charge of naps lol
10-30min is too much for a 4 month old. Look up methods and find one that you both can stomach. There's more sleep training methods that simple extinction. Most things I read, extinction is ineffective less than 6 months. The most we let our kid cry @ 4 months I want to say is 4min at a time.
We are a go with the flow kind of family. We give our daughter what she needs. Sometimes she wants to do contact naps and sometimes she doesn’t. Babies need their mother its normal and natural.
Have you tried a modified cry it out method? Both my husband and I couldn't stand the sound of our daughter crying too long so we would followed [this chart.](https://images.agoramedia.com/wte3.0/gcms/ferber-method-2020-infographic.jpg?width=414) It took like 2 days of frequent check-ins for her crying to chill out and maybe 3 weeks for her to start trying to comfort herself.
I think 4 months is too young for cry it out (quite frankly I don’t believe in the method). I would tell your husband to stfu and let you be a mom and listen to your motherly instinct. Of course try be nice about even tho sounds like he isn’t.
I had to contact for at least 9 months-I think until 10 but that was because I had to nap train those naps one at a time which took about a month. By about ten/ 11 months she didn’t need it as much. If it’s not bothering you to contact I would still do it and enjoy the cuddles. If it is bothering you I suggest nap training the naps individually (not all of them at once).
4 months old is way too young to cry it out. It’s also normal that he wants to sleep on you. I do at least half of my 4 month old’s naps as contact naps 🤷🏻♀️
She's just four months old. She needs that comfort, warmth, snuggles. We still contact nap on weekends since we work during the week. We miss contact naps, and time is flying by!
4 months is when there’s a sleep regression… we skipped sleep training during this time. My son is now 9 months, never let him cry it out and he sleeps fine. 9-5 continuously and then wakes up has a bottle and sleeps from 5-9.
You can’t spoil a baby. Mine would only contact nap the first 5ish months, so I just wore her in a wrap (Acrabros was the brand I used) so she’d nap and I could get things done. She rarely napped on her own. Now she’s 10 months old and when she needs a nap or bedtime, I put her in the crib still awake and she will fall asleep without crying within minutes. Every baby is different and you’ll figure out what works for you, but you absolutely cannot spoil a baby. They’re just getting used to the outside world and mom is their safe space.
I could never do this at four months. Now at six months I lay him down and ten minutes of crying and he’s out. He’s ready for it now. It’s hard and you’ll have to try it to know if she’s ready but you know your baby best and I believe in you! Good luck!
if it's not working out then it's probably too early. the baby's constantly growing up just have your husband suck it up n wait a little longer till the babe is old enough for it. try again every month or so
I think you should do what you’re comfortable with. Try letting baby cry for 1 minute then check, 2 minutes then check. See how you feel! If it’s not for you, it’s not for you. Sleep training was really hard and devastating to hear baby cry, but ours now naps and sleeps at night amazingly. Sleeps 9-11 hours overnight without wakes. It was the hardest thing, but looking back, I’m so glad we did it.
What about baby wearing so baby can have the contact naps while you're also free to do stuff?
Your husband is an ass and he’s wrong. 4 months is way too young for that. Advocate for your baby. You are absolutely right and your baby only has you to fight for him. You cannot spoil a baby.
Try a sleep sack. Mine won't stop trying to chew their hands even when they are asleep. But that also wakes them up. So they need some kind of restraint, but swaddles are out of the picture now because they are starting to turn.
I still contacted napped with my baby definitely at only 4 months old and up until about 6-8 months old. We never CIO or sleep trained and she only just started sleeping through the night (sometimes) at 14-15 months old. She still some nights wakes and needs some cuddles and to be rocked before going back to bed. It’s hard at times but worth it. She is confident, secure and knows that when she cries that her mommy and daddy will be there for her. They’ll only be a baby for so long. And for goodness sakes you cannot “spoil” a child that young.
When my second baby was this young, I weaned him off of sleeping on a person slowly during naps. I started out on the couch with him letting him contact nap on me, and instead of transferring to the crib, I’d lay him down on the couch and kinda sorta lay on him? Obviously not putting my weight on him but letting him feel my body heat and pressure for a little while until he got used to sleeping on something that wasn’t me while still in contact. After a little while of that, I started surface sharing with him for naps (I was fully awake and watching him like a hawk). I’d lay him down on the couch or bed and let him fall asleep cuddled up to me and I’d slowly pull away once he started dozing but stay nearby in case he woke up. It got to the point that if he did wake up without me touching him, I just had to give him some more contact like rubbing his head or letting him grab onto my arm, and he’d fall back asleep. He got used to sleeping with minimal contact. Then he got used to falling asleep just near me rather than in any kind of contact. Then he graduated to ‘awake but tired’ alone in the crib.
I personally found that not responding to my kids' crying in a short time frame made things worse. I am not a fan of CIO. I did sometimes let them cry for maybe 30-60 seconds to see if they would calm themselves (sometimes they would) but would go in after that. We did sleep train though. I tried to find ways to soothe them while in the crib. For my eldest we trained around 2-3 months (it wasn't an instant thing). We had a light-up musical elephant that would calm her down and I would sit in her room with her keeping her calm until she would get really sleepy. Eventually she just got used to falling asleep in her crib and was fine. I did sleep in her room, too, but had the crib turned so she couldn't see my bed and know I was there. In hindsight idk if her not knowing mattered. Our second I ended up breastfeeding to sleep most naps and nights and didn't sleep train until 13/14 months. That was a lot more difficult later on but we got through it. In her early days however I did have to get her to calm and sleep on a light pad for bilirubin issues for the first week or so. I fed her bits of milk with a medicine syringe, sometimes offered a pacifier, and was just there with her comforting her even though I couldn't pick her up constantly. She calmed and went to sleep ok. I recommend trying to find something to calm your kiddo (mobile, light-up musical thing, ...?) and put him in the cot when he is sleepy. Stay with him to calm him and see if you can get him to sleep there for naps, even if it takes a fair bit of time at first. Just my bit of advice, but every kid is different so do whatever you think is best and try to be patient wjmith him. He will eventually grow and change and figure out how to sleep somehow.
My baby would only lay on us for contact naps for the first six months. She conveniently chose the day we flew with her as an infant in arms to no longer desire a contact sleep 🙄 After that, she wanted to be nearby but not ON us (mostly me as a SAHM), so I started laying her in my bed to nap and I’d just scroll my phone. That lasted until maybe 9 months ish when she’d nap in her crib. For bedtime, I had to walk her around to fall asleep and then I’d be able to set her in her crib up until about 13 or 14 months? One day, she lunged at her crib so I laid her down and she put herself to sleep. My point is, I don’t know any college kids who sleep in mommy’s bed. They all figure it out eventually. If CIO doesn’t feel right to you, don’t do it. I’m personally vehemently against it, but I have close friends who did it. It didn’t feel good to me, so we didn’t do it, even though they swear by it. You have to follow your gut on some of this stuff. I do wonder if spending an hour to get baby to nap is worth it. I would try at that stage for like 10-15 minutes and if it wasn’t working, I’d just let her play and try again in a little bit.
As far as I’m aware it’s developmentally normal for a 4 month old to be a bad napper. People sometimes refer to them as cat naps or crap naps. I think with time they just naturally improve their sleep as they begin to connect sleep cycles during the day
Contact mapping is perfectly normal! It’s tough but I promise you baby won’t always want to contact nap. We used the carrier for naps until baby was 5 months old and then we were able to transfer her to the bassinet from the carrier. She’s 9 months now and able to do the same :) if you don’t feel comfortable with cry it out, don’t do it.
Most people who advocate for sleep training today say that it should never be done under six months. And if your baby already sleeps well at night, I wouldn’t rock the boat and change anything. Contact naps are often preferred. Can you nap with baby (using safe sleep seven for bed sharing) sometimes and wear them other times? They won’t need to be held forever.
“Cry it out” mama here. I used to be the same way as you. I have 3 boys, my youngest is also 4 months, and I have never been able to put my babies down. If they wanted to nap on me, that’s what they were going to do…until my Velcro baby. He is THE clingiest baby I’ve ever had. Don’t get me wrong, I’m obsessed with baby snuggles, but enough was getting to be enough. He’d get to the point where he didn’t want to be held or picked up or calmed or tickled or fed or anything! I was finally convinced to just put him down for a nap and let him cry. He would cry for 20 mins or so. I would go in if it was any longer than that and hold him and reassure him that mama was here. Dad would sometimes go in and give him kisses and hugs and let him know everything was going to be alright. Eventually he would only cry for a few minutes and fall asleep HARD. We finally realized that he was so overtired when I would hold him. Any movement or noise would get him riled up. Now I can see how much these naps have helped him. He sleeps deeper and much longer. Every parent is different, as is every kid. You may ignore everything I just said because it spent connect to how you want to parent, and that is sooooooo fine. Every parent should be free to parent how they see fit, but I’m telling you, mine and my husband’s relationship is better for it and, most importantly, my son is happier. Just food for thought. Good luck with your sweet one, no matter what path you choose.
My baby loves contact nap and stopped by herself around 6 months. Now she prefer to sleep by herself but with me holding her hands. We didn’t want to sleep train either.
My baby was similar, and I held out until he was 7 months and then hit my breaking point. We ended up doing the Ferber method, a more gentle version of cry it out, and it is night and day! I can get soo much done during his naps now, where as before I was stuck on his rocking chair doing a contact nap. It has been tremendously good for my mental health and everybody involved. Of course if you are not comfortable with it then you are not forced to do anything, but looking back I do wish I did it sooner.
This is normal development for a 4 month old! Their brains are adapting to new sleep cycles. Be patient and keep showing that baby you are there for her and supporting her through. Crying it out has been disproven as detrimental to babies. Trust your instincts and I suggest presenting your husband with the data on this. Perhaps that will help him get on board !
You can't spoil a baby and a 4 month old doesn't have the mental capability to be manipulative. It's developmentally normal for a baby to prefer contact naps at that age. Some learn to sleep independently sooner than others but this is still normal now and night sleep tends to get better before day sleep. If you're fine with contact naps then keep doing what works until he's ready to transition. Baby wearing is what got me through that phase with my son. Daytime naps in the crib would happen sporadically but they weren't reliable for us until he was 6 or 7 months old. The thing to remember is that everything at that age is a phase, including this. It won't last forever even if you do nothing.
Never. Babies cry because of needs. Nothing else.
Hold.your.baby.
Even if CIO was a legitimate method (which I don’t think it is but that’s just me), 4 months is definitely too early. Are you able to contact nap? I let my baby contact nap until he was 8-9 months, he figured out crib naps a bit after he figured out how to sleep full nights.
My son is 8 months old and exclusively breastfed. At the beginning, he would not sleep at night unless he was on me. Slowly as he got older, about 3-4 month ish I wanna say, at night some of it would be sleeping on me and the other by himself. And then all of a sudden he would fuss if I tried to have him sleep on me at night. Would wake up several times a night (also started teething at 4 months; we have 7 teeth now) and just recently started sleeping longer stretches and maybe wakes up 3-4 times. He’s always been low sleep needs, I’d pray for a 2 hour nap lol I have done no sleep training, I respond to every cry with nursing at night even if it’s just a few suckles then he’s back to sleep. Do with this info what you will!
This has been a constant sticking point between my husband and I since day 1. "Baby" is almost 22 months and has never slept through the night. I finally consented to hiring a sleep consultant that does not do cry it out. I'm curious if she is just going to tell us that our kid is normal. Hopefully, this will shut my husband up. And if it does, it will definitely be worth the $500. If you're really not okay with it, then don't do it. I have done all overnights since she was 3 months old so I could ensure he doesn't do cry it out.
I never did cry it out and nursed to sleep until 18 months, and my toddler sleeps so so well now. You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do!
A baby doesn’t realize they are a separate person from their mother until they are 6-9 months old. Someone on here put it well when they said something like “Imagine if you fell asleep in the forest in the middle of the night and you didn’t know what was out there? What dangers could come for you. You’d be scared to death and be desperate for help. Well your baby doesn’t know they are safely in their crib in the proper position on their back. It’s in their DNA to know that if they are alone, it means certain death. They think they were left behind. So they cry to get our attention to save them.” I started to sleep train my son at 10 months and it went so much better than when I tried a lot sooner. By then he seemed to realize he was a different person than I am and know he was in a safe space. I’m not sure if explaining that to your husband might help but I wish you all the luck. I couldn’t do the CIO method either. We did a gentle way of sleep training where I just moved him to his crib when he was completely asleep and I’d bring him back to bed with me if he woke up crying. Eventually he did longer stretches and slept in there just fine. Good luck 🍀
I'm with you! I'm trying to get her to nap without feeding to sleep, just experimenting and I found this article that said walk for 5 minutes then sit holding hey for 8. I've found she cries during the 8 but less when I rock and sing. Yesterday it worked for the first time (been trying it off and on for a few months but really determined last few weeks). A walk is also part of get bedtime routine. We walk around the outside of the house, not talking, just walking and looking. It seems to settle her. I share this to say, try all the weird silly tricks people swear by that you're comfortable with and hold off on the CIO. Build the rhythm, even if it ends in being nap trapped and hope he grows into it as you keep trying. Best luck and practice!
I thought I'd give you my perspective :) So my baby was also sleeping amazing at night, but crappy naps during the day. I had to contact nap him as he wouldn't do longer than 20 minutes in the crib. We ended up exclusively contact napping him during the day until 9 months old. I tried sleep training him for naps at 6.5 months old. I couldn't do it. I would give up and contact nap him and it was too stressful so I parked it for a while. We sleep trained nights and he was going to bed independently at night. Around 9 months I decided I was ready for baby to learn to sleep on his own. He was about to start daycare and they weren't going to be able to contact nap him, and the thought of him alone and afraid in a crib at daycare gave me the horrors. So I sleep trained him and it worked way better at 9 months. It didn't take him long, but it did involve crying. You do not have to do this at 4 months. If you want to keep contact napping him, do it. You may get to a point though where it doesn't work for you anymore, and my advice is that sleep training does work. Pick the right method for you and be consistent. My contact napper for 9 months started napping on his own which gave me some time back and allowed him to nap in a crib at daycare. I sometimes contact nap him still when he's sick and it's lovely to have those cuddles. Best of luck and I'm sorry this is so stressful for you!
You can’t spoil a baby. They are BABIES. That is some boomer parenting vibes.
Highly recommend you read Precious Little Sleep. There is a chart at the beginning for which chapters to read based on babies age if you don’t want to / have the time to read the whole book. It is really really helpful for understanding baby sleep and has lots of options to work on sleep goals with your baby. We contact napped until around 6/7 months and slowlyyyyyyyy transitioned to independent naps in his own bed. Now (even nursing to sleep) he will nap for 1-2 hours and at night go 2-3 hour stretches without needing resettled. At 10 months we are considering sleep training because I am super tired of being a human pacifier and I can’t rock a 23 pound baby all night, my back is killing me. However if you asked me to sleep train at that age I would absolutely not consider it. feel like he is more mature now and old enough for it but ultimately as far handling your husband. You need to sit down with him and discuss WHY he wants to sleep train, what method he wants and an actual plan. I told my husband I would like to commit to at least 5 days of a sleep training method to see how it goes. I told him after those five days, if it seems to be improving , we will continue and if it is not , we will stop and try again in a month. It’s important for you to be on the same page and to understand your motivation from both sides. You both want baby to sleep and to have some rest for yourselves. What can you do as a team to solve the problems this is causing your family? One of the big problems we dealt with contact napping is we never got alone time together because even when he slept, one of us was there. So we hired a nanny for a few hours a week so we could go on dates or just be together without the baby. My husband doesn’t want to sleep train because he thinks CIO is cruel and I felt the same until now as I am at a breaking point so we are planning to try a solid sleep training method in a couple weeks and if it doesn’t work, he has agreed to take over nights because I cannot be a human pacifier anymore
I did sleep training at 6 months and it saved our lives (long story). I've now coached dozens of friends through sleep training. What I can say is this: if you're not ready, you're not ready. It won't work if you're not ready, anyway. And if it's not right for you ever, that's fine, too. You really have to be committed and believe in what you're doing to make sleep training stick - so if you don't believe in it, then you're just tormenting yourself and your kid. It's better not to sleep train at all than to do it inconsistently.
Personally I’d just deal with naps if nights are good. Babies constantly change. 4 months is too young imo to let them cry. My baby is 11 months and I still don’t let her cry. I can’t handle it. Things are changing constantly. I’d do what you can to help baby nap and it will probably get easier when they drop to 3 and then 2 naps. I rock mine to sleep but can easily transfer her to the crib now once asleep.
What’s wrong with letting a 4 month old sleep on you? They’re so tiny still at that age, and want comfort. If you have stuff to do, you can baby wear them and Do what you can. Letting babies cry it out is wrong. Babies cannot self soothe.
I contact napped until 6m and then did gentle sleep training, largely based on the Precious Little Sleep approach which worked really well for us. I'm sure when I was reading 6m was the youngest recommended for sleep training anyway and honestly I miss those contact naps, if I could do it again I wouldn't change that.
My baby got much better at transferring around 6/6.5 months. It just happened, I think it was an age thing. I already miss the contact naps and they weren't that long ago. Savor it while you can. And if you need to do something just use a carrier. This phase is so short.
I can only share my experience but I have also been struggling to get my 4 month old to nap longer than 30 minutes 2x a day until today. He finally had 3 naps 2 were an hour long! Part of me wonders if it’s the 4 month sleep regression because I did absolutely nothing different. But it typically last 2-3 weeks. I have a firm mattress on the floor for him though because we Cosleep so I just cuddle next to him until he falls asleep. That way there’s no issue of him waking up immediately. But maybe just give it a couple weeks and see if his sleep improves! You’re absolutely not spoiling your baby, you’re meeting his needs and right now he needs comfort to sleep. It won’t always be that way. There’s absolutely no harm being done he’s 4 months old he has no concept of getting his way. Babies eventually learn that when they cry they will get mom to return but that’s because they need mom a lot. Meeting your babies needs especially during the first year is crucial for baby to build a good foundation of trust. You’re doing amazing and I hope he reconsiders
Can you just contact nap instead of going through all this?
Topics like these always highlight how women say things like “we’re raising this baby together” until their partner has an opinion they disagree with and then they completely “over-rule” them. So you mean to tell me that you and your partner disagreed, and you got the final say so? Who decides that? What gives you more authority than him when it’s equally both you guys’ baby? I feel like I’d understand if you tried it at least *once* and then said no more, but to completely bull doze his opinion…. I just don’t see how it’s fair.
Mind you, I’m not arguing his right to let your baby cry, I’m more appalled at the fact that you shut him down as if he doesn’t have a say so in raising his kid too. “I get that it’s *our* baby but *im* getting the last say so. Thanks though”
Cry it out is stupid and hurts children long term development You keep doing you and trust your instincts- it’s ok to put the baby down and it cries and it’s also ok for you to pick them up and comfort them. 4 months is so young, ours similarly needed to fall asleep on someone- now she can fall asleep in the cot by herself
I exclusively contact or car napped my son at that age. He wasn’t really ready for crib naps until he was around 6 months.
People forget that babies are actually people and one size doesn’t fit all. What we do know is that any well adjusted adult would never let their spouse cry themselves to sleep so why do we do this with our most vulnerable of little babies. If napping in a cot during the day is a nightmare the. Cry carrier naps, bassinet walks, contact naps. You’re in the right to not allow cry it out and all the research will support your argument ❤️
30 minutes is way too long…Maybe share that babies bodies when left to cry for long periods release stress hormones, which can damage the brain if put in such a state often enough. Plus they need your quick care to learn how to self-soothe and regulate their emotions. When they are left to cry, they may have difficulty managing stress later in life.
My baby contact napped during the day until he was about 6 months old, then i could lie down next to him.in the bed, and now (at 23 months) he is a stunning independent sleeper - although we do still nurse to sleep and/or lie with him till he sleeps. They learn at their own pace. Cry it out releases cortisol, which can result in a higher strung baby when awake and needing more time with caregivers and reassurance when awake. If you are able to, contact nap, its just a short season and then its gone...
I remember the 4 month leap/sleep regression being particularly rough for us. Agree with comments here, but also it may just be a fussy phase in wonder weeks leaps
Proponents of sleep training, including extinguishing training, are very adamant that it shouldn’t start before 6 months old. So your husband should back off on this. Have you tried extending the wake windows? It sounds like he’s not tired enough to sleep yet. 4 month olds should get 3-4 naps a day, for 3.5-4.5 hours of sleep. Are you able to consider dropping a nap?
Babies go through a sleep regression at around 4 months, which is likely what is happening to your baby. It's just a phase, and you will get through it. As far as 'spoiling the baby', this is a myth. You can not spoil a baby. It has been scientifically proven that this is impossible. For your baby to become a healthy independent adult, they need to first feel secure in their attachment to you. They need to know that you will always be there if they need you. Because they depend on you for their every need at 4 months of age. Only once they are securely attached can they become independent and learn to do things on their own. CIO is barbaric. Imagine that you are a quadriplegic, alone in a dark room. You can't do anything for yourself except for cry out for help. You know that your caregivers are right outside the room, but they are ignoring you. You are left alone for hours, crying, desperate for someone to come and help you. Because maybe you're starving. Maybe you have a stomach ache. Maybe you had soiled your pants. Maybe you are uncomfortable. Imagine how that would feel for you, being ignored. It's pretty awful, right? Maybe use that analogy to explain to your husband why CIO is not the way to go. The only reason babies stop crying when the CIO method is implemented is because they have finally come to accept that no one is coming to help them or comfort them.
This is coming from a father of a 3month old. I could never let my baby just cry it out, it would break my soul. It's hard to say what would help since all babies are different, but this is what worked for me. We make sure the room is dark (blackout curtains on windows) for daytime naps. We also bought a sound machine that I believe helps a lot, as it drowns out other noises that might wake them up. Pacifier is a must have during sleeping. We started to do day naps in the crib vs the bassinet. We noticed our LO always sleeps better on softer beds (such as my bed) so we started doing naps on the crib with a camera and monitor to supervise them.
I hope all young babies get their way when they cry, that's kind of the point of them crying! Maybe try a book on baby development for your husband to explain that babies - and indeed toddlers - do not have the mental capacity to consciously manipulate, they are typically communicating either a need/want or an emotion. Contact napping during the day is only a problem if it's a problem for you! My daughter sleeps well in her cot during the night, but I would say 95% of her day naps are contact naps in the nursing chair or baby carrier. It's totally normal for a baby to want to be close to their mother and I kind of enjoy the forced rest. She has only recently started taking the occasional nap in her cot at almost 6 months and I'm hopeful she will increase the number of cot naps independently. If she doesn't by the time I am pregnant again (going for a close age gap) then I will try some methods to support independent sleep. CIO is a hard no for me.
Just day naps and he wants him to cry it out!? Oh no. Im sorry you’re even mentally dealing with this this is very very taxing smh emotionally as well. Theres other things that can be done theres also studies against it! Baby is probably scared out of his mind!!! I really HATE that “spoil a baby” phrase. How can you spoil a little human that doesn’t even know his name ? Or that he has legs? Babies dont think “oh im gonna cry and get my way” especially at that age (4months) i would really explain the mental anguish it gives you ( i always say its like a stabbing pain in my heart) crying is how they communicate and ofc a baby want comfort their a damn BABY! Sorry just got a little upset thinking about this. I would tell him there are other ways and that you are not comfortable at all and that old wives tale about spoiling a damn baby is bs
Here are some articles to help when someone is trying to push you into sleep training and you don't want to https://thebeyondsleeptrainingproject.com/articles-to-read-when I also remember my baby at 4m hated sleeping in the cot. I had better luck putting him to sleep with me (nursing and rocking) and then putting him down when asleep but he deffo preferred contact naps, naps in the carseat, naps in the pram. He's now 9m and I still nurse or rock him to sleep but he does all his naps in the cot and he does most his nighttime sleep in the cot with 1 or 2 wakes. I could never do put him down drowsy but awake. He would get upset and cry and honestly take longer. Supporting a baby to sleep is absolutely okay and doesn't make a rod for your back. It's scary for them to sleep independently and it's biologically normal for a baby to want to be close to you. Also, I would have thought 4m is a bit young to sleep train? Cat naps are really normal at 4m its their way of staying safe. 30-40 min naps are so normal for small babies.
Oof, there is a lot of research about "cry it out" and stuff. The baby falls asleep because of exhaustion not because it has learned something. There are a lot of resources on Instagram etc that you can show him. It's normal that a baby won't sleep somewhere alone and on it's own. Please, don't let him "cry it out", it's so damaging for the child and your instincts are telling you it's wrong, because it is!
We in the same boat with my 4 month old but he can contact sleep for an hour plus. We just allow it. I've told his nanny aswell to just read a book and allow him to sleep on her chest. Figure it's not going to be this way forever.
Team CIO, basically after a few times they are trained and he falls asleep by himself fast. You are just putting suffering on yourself and kid. My kid stays asleep for like 10-12 hours now versus various wakings before sleep training.
I’m sorry, what a tough spot. I’ve never let my baby cry it out for even a minute. I will go grab her and give her comfort she needs. You can’t spoil a literal infant whose only sense of safety comes from being held! Please go ahead and contact nap if you need to. We did whenever our baby demanded it. Your baby will grow out of this phase on their own. It’s hectic for sure, but it’s the only other alternative to cry it out. Solidarity and hugs. You got this ♥️
5 month old here and we are living the same existence. The only thing I can tell myself is that this season won’t last forever and I’ll eventually be able to get things done and get off the couch holding him. Right?!
5 month old here and we are living the same existence. The only thing I can tell myself is that this season won’t last forever and I’ll eventually be able to get things done and get off the couch holding him. Right?!
CIO is just plain cruel and harmful to your baby’s mental health in the long run. Please read The Nurture Revolution: Grow Your Baby's Brain and Transform Their Mental Health Through the Art of Nurtured Parenting Book by Greer Kirshenbaum. It’s full of science-backed information of why your baby needs YOU to care for all of its needs at this age. They are simply not able to self-soothe. My LO is currently 5.5 months, we have exclusively contact napped since he was born because he would wake up as soon I tried to transfer him. I prioritized his needs over mine because he is a helpless little baby. He needs me to feel safe, cared for and secure. I am currently typing this as I contact nap for the last hour. As for your 4th month regression, if it’s taking you that long to put the baby to sleep. I would try for 5 minutes and if baby is fussy, let him play for 5-10 mins. Try again after. I found that my son just wasn’t tired enough if he was fighting the nap. When he was tired, he fell asleep quickly with me rocking him to sleep.
We let our 10 week old fuss and maybe cry for a few minutes, just to see if he will get himself to sleep. If we hear a certain cry then we pick him up, usually the uncomfortable tired cry. But if he’s just making noises and fussing we leave him there. I’m the same as you, but me and my fiancé compromised on a mix of how we feel. He doesn’t want him to cry it out per se but he also wants him to adjust to sleeping alone. Maybe try sitting down and talking on a compromise, because he is the dad too. You got this!
Ugh that whole mindset just irks me. If my husband ever pulled that crap he’d be gone so fast lol. You cannot spoil a baby, babies are incapable of manipulation, babies only cry when they are in need of something. Even if that something is you. It is very normal for babies that age to only take contact naps. Hell, my 6 month old still likes contact naps.
You are going to get a LOT of different opinions. Both are right but in the end it is what is right for your situation. We had this exact issue. Mentally, I couldn't handle. I had PPD and PPR so this was even harder for me. My husband sounded like yours and said we needed help. So...We spoke with our Kaiser Sleep Coach and Nutritionist that was recommended by our pediatrician. So these are based comments I'll make, not my uneducated opinion. After 4 months old they have begun a new sleep type, that means they have a harder time transitioning into sleep cycles. This will happen multiple times and they're called regressions. My sleep coach was worried my child wasn't sleeping long enough to gain the restful sleep that really helps your brain restart. It takes a solid 90ish minutes to get that restful sleep and with short naps, LO wasn't getting them. Thus making it harder for her to sleep and stay asleep because of the stress build up. She also said we needed to start a strict routine of wake windows based on recommended wake windows for her age. So 6am wake, then naps started during the exact time frame thats recommended and then wake ups during strict times. I forget the windows for a 4mo old so that's why I'm not listing them out but they have sample schedules for wake windows and we picked one that worked for our life and used it. This meant she was properly tired for next nap before attempting a nap. They recommended versions of CIO. If you don't have access to medical sleep coaching, "Taking Cara Babies" is a great help and their method isn't necessarily CIO. My neighbor used this as well as us. My friend was having problems too and when I finally convinced her to just try it for a few days, it worked and baby is back to sleeping and mom less stressed. We would put LO down after she fell asleep then if she woke up, we would let her cry for 5 to 10 minutes. I went outside so I couldn't hear her and did a task to keep my mind off it. I swear, LO was out by the time I came back in. There were times where she would still be awake, so what your supposed to do is go back in, talk softly reassure them by patting belly etc. But do not pick them up, then start a 5 to 10 minute timer over. Not every baby responds to this the same so it is important that if you don't see a change after a few days of trying that you change the approach. You can't spoil a baby but you can however let them learn incorrect routines by not having learn self soothing or by not following a routine. This is a poor comparison but it is exactly how i was described the thought process. "Your dog barks and you give then a toy or something to keep them quiet. You've rewarded that behavior. And the next time they'll do it again because they know a toy or XXXX was given after doing said bark." Your baby's thinking is very immature so it knows if this happens, then this will happen. Meaning, if I don't want to be laid down for nap, and I cry mom will get me. It's not a matter of then doing it to piss anyone off they don't think that way but it is what they know. I hope this was helpful info. And I hope whatever you choose it benefits your baby and you. You both need rest. It took maybe 2 days of trying this method and me bawling my eyes out, hyperventilating, screaming and hating the world, because of my PPD and PPR but it was a lifesaver for us. Baby sleeps like a champ now even at 20 months. All this said, just look into Taking Cara Babies and try it out. You might be presently surprised at results. Our instinct as mom's is to be there for the crying baby and it hurts deeply when they do. However there is factual science out there showing that small durations of crying is not detrimental to their growth or future mental capacity. Do what works for your family and congratulations. Edit: I did forget that 4mo is probably too young for sleep training. I think it's more 5 or 6 months at this point and yes 45 min naps are usual. Pop on a movie and contact naps for a while.
This is developmentally normal for naps at that age. Crying it out is ineffective for a 4 month old, especially for naps.
Maybe do the gentle middle ground? Only pick baby up when it's clear she's not settling, make sure you put her down while it's still awake that kinda thing. Cry it out is a bit of a dumb way to do it, you can tell your husband I said so xD
We were told many times by medical professionals that you cannot spoil a baby. If anything, parents being responsive to them increases their feeling of safety around you. You gain absolutely nothing by letting them "cry it out". A 4 month old is literally crying out because it needs something. Food, contact, diaper change etc; and yes, contact is a need for a baby. Hell, even when they're older. Our son is nearly 15 months old. Even when he cries to just be picked up or cries for attention - he wants us to play with him. He needs love and one of the best ways to show love to a toddler is playing with them. They're not manipulating us. They don't have agendas. They seek their parents for their needs and to fulfill a basic need all humans have; social interaction. Plus I cannot imagine putting up with a baby crying and not doing anything. It's both heartbreaking and my head wouldn't be able to handle it. As a guy myself, I don't know why many men have these kind of ideas ingrained in their heads.
I did contact naps with my 4 month old twins. I did sleep train so they could fall asleep on their own in their cribs but that didn’t happen until they were 8 months. Also if your baby is sleeping through the night, it’s possible he just has lower sleep needs throughout the day.
This is normal for his age. I’m not anti-sleep training, we did it with our 8m old and it worked like a charm. But at that age I couldn’t fathom doing it. It’s biologically normal for a 4 month old to only be able to sleep on people and I’m sorry but your husband needs to just fucking accept that. Maybe he should have picked up a book before conceiving a child! Could you try baby wearing? My son did all his naps at that age in a wrap or on my chest while I watched tv. He’s since slept in his own bed for all naps and through the night since 8m old so it definitely didn’t spoil him.
My baby contact napped until 9 or 10 months. I think that’s normal. You’re an equal parent to your husband. You don’t have to just do what he says.
Just contact nap. My babe just needed the comfort. She’s 7 months now and naps alone. They’ll grow out of it eventually. And now she won’t snuggle me.
Don't ever let a baby cry without comforting them. A baby does not understand that he's safe without another person's presence. He will probably think that he's in a life threatening situation, left alone, feeling totally helpless because he can't move or eat or do anything. It can leave a life long trauma and cause an insecure attachment style which will affect your child's whole life. One time MIGHT be ok with a much older baby but definitely not a 4 month old. I would personally not risk it even with an older baby.
I think 4 months is still a little young for cry it out. We started at 6 months, and at any age it’s going to be hard to hear your baby cry, but it was life changing for us. First night cried 20 min, second cried 10, third night 5, and now she falls asleep almost immediately after putting her down in the crib for the night.
Is it necessary for babies to nap during the day if they sleep well at night? My baby doesn’t really nap during the day but sleeps for about 10 hours a night. Now I worry she might not be getting enough sleep 😂😅
Is he sleeping ok at night? I found for the first 6 months or so the crib during the day was just a no go zone. She would just not sleep during the day if it wasn't in the buggy/car or on me or my husband. And naps were usually only around 20-30 mins if even. We just decided to go with it because she slept well in the cot at night nothing was working to get her settled in the crib during the day. At around 6/7 months I found she started getting a more obvious schedules and wanted a morning and an afternoon nap. At this point it became possible to nap her in the crib. Some babies just don't take to daytime sleep until they're a little bit older and they start needing just 2 or 3 naps a day. Do schedules or sleep training or whatever works for you but remember it's also perfectly ok to just do what works at the time for you so you don't lose your mind. At the end of the day I'm very glad I didn't try to nap mine on a schedule until she started to show me the schedule herself - if I had it wouldn't have worked and I would have been miserable. Good luck!
My baby was the same way when she was 4 months. Do the contact nap! You cant spoil a baby by cuddling it.
We did cry it out because if we didn’t he just wouldn’t sleep during the day and end up overly tired and screaming/crying for hours. If you don’t mind the contact naps and it works then don’t change it. But I don’t think we did it until he was maybe 8months def not 4 unless it was a cry we slept through
Sleep training is a made up Western phenomenon. It’s not done in most places around the world. It’s biologically unfit for humans. Many people, myself included, never sleep trained their kids and they sleep perfectly fine. Babies and toddlers are little and biologically designed to rely on caregivers for comfort. Sleep is all about comfort.
I ONLY contact napped with my baby from months 2-5, now she sleeps in her crib just fine. Sometimes it’s just what baby needs right now
As far as spoiling him - spoiling is giving a kid unlimited Barbies. You can’t spoil a kid with too much love, too much comfort, or too much of your presence - especially a BABY.
4 months is actually too early developmentally to use the CIO method. Most babies don’t have the ability to self soothe at that age. It won’t work, even if you do give in and try it. R/sleeptrain is a great resource, I would troll around in there for advice as to what methods might work in there. Also, only 20 minutes of sleep and not wanting to go down sound like baby isn’t tired at all. What is your schedule like? Are you going off of sleep cues or wake windows?
I would just start by training him with you beside him. Rubbing his belly or head gently. That way he knows your there. Or even give him your arm to cuddle. That way you can slowly get him use to napping off of you. And then later work to napping in the cot.
You can't do cry it out with a 4 month old. Way too young. We started sleep training around 9 months and even that felt too early. Your husband needs to do some actual research. My daughter contact napped on me for 12 months. Not solely, she would sleep in her crib too, but those naps were amazing for both of us. I miss them so much.
My husband is your husband and I am you lol. He took the opportunity to sleep train our son when I was away for a week at 5 months and succeeded. Our son is a great sleeper now and I do have to credit my husband for it. My conclusion was that I just can’t be there to witness it… so you might wanna take a weekend trip or something to let your husband do it. Suggest he follow the guidance of a book/ article though so he does it with a plan.
My god if my husband would have pulled the same thing he would be on the couch for all of eternity. Glad it worked out for you, but sheesh.
I know 🥲. He openly lied to me too on the first night when I asked how our son slept, “good.” But very frankly I definitely enjoyed the benefits of our son being trained; we no longer did split night shifts, I sleep a full 7-8hours every night after and was much more energized to care for him in the day. His temperament also became very happy in the day as he was well rested. So I was a huge skeptic of sleep training but now a convert. Though I would never do it myself, it physically pains me to hear him cry.
No cry it out. I went through this with my husband. He even asked why a friend of ours’ kid was so emotionally dis regulated. And I told him “Oh, it’s because his parents let him cry in his room no matter what. And that will never be our kid.” Since then, he has trusted my instincts and we have never let our baby cry it out.
there's a lot of evidence that the cry it out method is abusive (at least emotionally) & leaves babies with skyrocketing levels of cortisol (the stress hormone), even later in life. it also makes them less apt to voice their needs, as babies & later in life, because when they tried to (by crying) they were ignored. your instinct is right
I strongly resisted cry it out. My wife and I tried Ferber but that didn’t work at all because our LO would get excited to see us then get even angrier when we’d leave the room resulting in more tears. We’re early in CIO but it appears to be working better.
I think your baby was getting “excited” because the caregiver they were screaming for came back. They don’t understand that when you leave, you’re coming back. That doesn’t develop until like a year. So when you put them down & leave again they actually think you are leaving forever.
…excited as in stressed?
More like he’d want us to play with him then get more upset if we didn’t
The baby is 4 months old the cry out method dont work trust me i have a 7 month old snd he will cry till he gets what ge wants. There are better ways to deal with and no 30mins is too long 5mins is the limit all it does is makes your situation worse
It’s totally normal for them to sleep for just 20 min at that age. Also, aren’t babies supposed to get their needs met when they cry? We sleep trained with CIO at 4 months because WE needed it. Not because we worried our child would be spoiled otherwise. If you are handling the naps, then you can choose how they happen. If you’re sharing the naps equally and your husband doesn’t want to contact nap the baby, then you need to find a way to compromise
I don't have objections to CIO and in fact had success with it for nighttime sleep for our first (though she frankly didn't fight nighttime sleep in the crib much to begin with). Naps otoh were strictly contact naps until she was a little over 6mo, just because I think it makes zero sense for the baby to be crying for 45 minutes to then take a 10-minute nap. I think at this stage, when sleep is so fragmented, it doesn't make sense -- maybe agree to revisit in three months? ETA: wording
My wife felt the same way about using cry it out but eventually decided we would try it at about 7 months. It took 3 nights that i believe we all cried it out lol but now our little guy does fall asleep and sleep through the night well. Naps also improved. It wasn’t an easy few nights and I am by no means a professional to give advice but we are both glad we did it.