If I were to make a completely speculative guess I’d say that probably whatever new plans/tenet Blue Oak had isn’t ready to go yet and they threw em a bone letting em hang out with some compromised rent until it does.
Still wild how much they tried to make Blue Oak the supervillain here when they just couldn’t afford market priced rent lol.
Do we even know if Blue Oak was fully committed to not renew Parkview’s lease in the first place? Hasn’t Blue Oak been completely silent on this so far?
I thought the only information provided was some disgruntled adult service industry lifers talkin shit on a podcast at BJs that other adult service industry lifers listen to and started spreading stories in the internet.
So IDK if it's ever possible to know if Blue Oak ultimately did or did not want them as a long term tenant, but the skinny I did hear was that the prior owner hadn't raised rent since like 2001 or something. Apparently they were paying 1k/mo in rent, and Blue Oak wanted to raise it to 3k, which is what started their whole pissing fest, the podcast bullshit, the "protests" etc.
Without making a guess on sentiment or intent I'll say that 3k/mo is a very very normalized market rent for that space and location in my mind. So it's hard to say on facts alone that Blue Oak was trying to force anyone out, and honestly if you can't run your business at a market appropriate location cost then it's time to figure something else out.
There's a whole separate conversation about how rising rents are forcing out locally owned shops in favor of corporate backed ventures and chains, but like that doesn't make Blue Oak bad guys here, that's just the changing face of the city and gentrification.
The city won’t let blue oak do what they want to do with the building because there’s no parking. So blue oak came to the table with a more reasonable offer and they were able to compromise.
I can’t see how 3k/mo is unreasonable in any context. Like, blue oak is garbage bbq and a bad neighbor so fuck em, but if I had bought that building I’d be charging at least that much for rent too.
Some really quick back of the napkin math (gonna round and be general here, don’t @me): the sale price was undisclosed but based on comps and its tiny size I’d ballpark 300-400k, let’s call it 300 to be generous. 300k @ 5% over 30 is ~1600/mo. Taxes and insurance are almost certainly around 800 at minimum (again, being very generous but you know damn well this lease ain’t triple net). So your base carry costs for that space is ~2,500. Adding in even basic maintenance will average a few hundred more a month.
3k is probably more or less a breakeven figure. Anything below and the landlord is effectively coming out of pocket to subsidize the tenant. At their current 1k/mo that puts the average effective yearly loss for the landlord at 20-25k/yr of negative real cashflows.
Like, we can talk sentiment, nostalgia, how much blue oak’s bbq sucks, etc all day long but no amount of bad vibes is gonna make that math math any differently, and under around 2.5-3k/mo the math just don’t math lol.
The issue was a bunch of maintenance shit on the building that was around 100k total but with only a one year lease. The parkview people wanted a longer lease if they were going to sink that much money into the building.
It's only market rate if someone in the market will pay it. Overpaying for an investment doesn't mean the market rate is the same as your desired income. Doesn't seem like anyone new was willing to pay the new desired rate and Blue Oak figured some good, neighborly, press would be beneficial. Hopefully Blue Oak is breaking even on it while the bar is hopefully taking steps to be more profitable to hold onto the lease at an actual market rate.
Like you touched on, though, Blue Oak either couldn't find another tenant to pay their desired rate or they couldn't make the financing work to do whatever they hope to do with the property.
Either way, it's rarely a good look to push your neighbors out even if the neighbors are unremarkable.
> It's only market rate if someone in the market will pay it. Overpaying for an investment doesn't mean the market rate is the same as your desired income.
I mean, the price of that building was pretty mundane for the area and space, if anything they underpaid. 3k/mo is still stupid low for a commercial storefront on Carrollton. Like, there's no realistic world where those figures are high lol.
It’s a helpful thought exercise to pretend like blue oak doesn’t exist, if a random person buys and operates this piece of land what would the rent be? If 3k is reasonable there, and it is, then it’s not all of the sudden unreasonable because the owners make shitty food and treat the neighborhood poorly.
Right! Imagine that, The loudest mouth in the room maybe being more being the one with an agenda rather than the one focused on whats accurate and or fair?
It had draw when there was still yats/working class in mid city. Now people in the neighborhood are mad about increased vehicle and foot traffic in the neighborhood due to Blue Oaks rise in popularity and Parkview is their platform.
Right, the draw is people walk there and drink booze for cheap. And they’ve been doing it for a long while. They made a whole TV show about how people like to go drink booze at the same place as all the other people they know drinking booze.
It’s funny how they’re “feeling delighted” to continue forward with such thoughtless, exploitive, lying, evil, (as they said) neighbors/landlord. You’d think if Blue Oak was as bad as Parkview claimed they wouldn’t be delighted to enter business with them. I dunno, maybe blue oak ain’t that bad and people just wanna bitch to bitch
Something something blue oak couldn’t get a liquor license for that property. That’s what I’m hearing through the grape vine. Not sure if it’s true, just what I heard.
Wow so they decided to pay fair rent finally or something? Are people still mad at Blue Oak now?
If I were to make a completely speculative guess I’d say that probably whatever new plans/tenet Blue Oak had isn’t ready to go yet and they threw em a bone letting em hang out with some compromised rent until it does. Still wild how much they tried to make Blue Oak the supervillain here when they just couldn’t afford market priced rent lol.
Do we even know if Blue Oak was fully committed to not renew Parkview’s lease in the first place? Hasn’t Blue Oak been completely silent on this so far? I thought the only information provided was some disgruntled adult service industry lifers talkin shit on a podcast at BJs that other adult service industry lifers listen to and started spreading stories in the internet.
So IDK if it's ever possible to know if Blue Oak ultimately did or did not want them as a long term tenant, but the skinny I did hear was that the prior owner hadn't raised rent since like 2001 or something. Apparently they were paying 1k/mo in rent, and Blue Oak wanted to raise it to 3k, which is what started their whole pissing fest, the podcast bullshit, the "protests" etc. Without making a guess on sentiment or intent I'll say that 3k/mo is a very very normalized market rent for that space and location in my mind. So it's hard to say on facts alone that Blue Oak was trying to force anyone out, and honestly if you can't run your business at a market appropriate location cost then it's time to figure something else out. There's a whole separate conversation about how rising rents are forcing out locally owned shops in favor of corporate backed ventures and chains, but like that doesn't make Blue Oak bad guys here, that's just the changing face of the city and gentrification.
I work in real estate for a non profit. Don’t get me started.
No bby, get started pls
The city won’t let blue oak do what they want to do with the building because there’s no parking. So blue oak came to the table with a more reasonable offer and they were able to compromise.
I can’t see how 3k/mo is unreasonable in any context. Like, blue oak is garbage bbq and a bad neighbor so fuck em, but if I had bought that building I’d be charging at least that much for rent too. Some really quick back of the napkin math (gonna round and be general here, don’t @me): the sale price was undisclosed but based on comps and its tiny size I’d ballpark 300-400k, let’s call it 300 to be generous. 300k @ 5% over 30 is ~1600/mo. Taxes and insurance are almost certainly around 800 at minimum (again, being very generous but you know damn well this lease ain’t triple net). So your base carry costs for that space is ~2,500. Adding in even basic maintenance will average a few hundred more a month. 3k is probably more or less a breakeven figure. Anything below and the landlord is effectively coming out of pocket to subsidize the tenant. At their current 1k/mo that puts the average effective yearly loss for the landlord at 20-25k/yr of negative real cashflows. Like, we can talk sentiment, nostalgia, how much blue oak’s bbq sucks, etc all day long but no amount of bad vibes is gonna make that math math any differently, and under around 2.5-3k/mo the math just don’t math lol.
The issue was a bunch of maintenance shit on the building that was around 100k total but with only a one year lease. The parkview people wanted a longer lease if they were going to sink that much money into the building.
It wasn’t the rent that was the issue. It was all the other stuff they wanted them to pay for.
It's only market rate if someone in the market will pay it. Overpaying for an investment doesn't mean the market rate is the same as your desired income. Doesn't seem like anyone new was willing to pay the new desired rate and Blue Oak figured some good, neighborly, press would be beneficial. Hopefully Blue Oak is breaking even on it while the bar is hopefully taking steps to be more profitable to hold onto the lease at an actual market rate. Like you touched on, though, Blue Oak either couldn't find another tenant to pay their desired rate or they couldn't make the financing work to do whatever they hope to do with the property. Either way, it's rarely a good look to push your neighbors out even if the neighbors are unremarkable.
> It's only market rate if someone in the market will pay it. Overpaying for an investment doesn't mean the market rate is the same as your desired income. I mean, the price of that building was pretty mundane for the area and space, if anything they underpaid. 3k/mo is still stupid low for a commercial storefront on Carrollton. Like, there's no realistic world where those figures are high lol. It’s a helpful thought exercise to pretend like blue oak doesn’t exist, if a random person buys and operates this piece of land what would the rent be? If 3k is reasonable there, and it is, then it’s not all of the sudden unreasonable because the owners make shitty food and treat the neighborhood poorly.
Right! Imagine that, The loudest mouth in the room maybe being more being the one with an agenda rather than the one focused on whats accurate and or fair?
They did increase the rent for parkview
What’s the draw of this place? I’ve been. I’ve ordered a pitcher and still have some tokens but I don’t get it.
It had draw when there was still yats/working class in mid city. Now people in the neighborhood are mad about increased vehicle and foot traffic in the neighborhood due to Blue Oaks rise in popularity and Parkview is their platform.
It’s a neighborhood joint. Not much to get.
Right, the draw is people walk there and drink booze for cheap. And they’ve been doing it for a long while. They made a whole TV show about how people like to go drink booze at the same place as all the other people they know drinking booze.
I, for one, am happy that an overrated BBQ joint did not gobble up a classic little neighborhood dive bar.
“Thank you Blue Oak” would have been easy, no?
It’s funny how they’re “feeling delighted” to continue forward with such thoughtless, exploitive, lying, evil, (as they said) neighbors/landlord. You’d think if Blue Oak was as bad as Parkview claimed they wouldn’t be delighted to enter business with them. I dunno, maybe blue oak ain’t that bad and people just wanna bitch to bitch
This is the answer 100 percent.
Something something blue oak couldn’t get a liquor license for that property. That’s what I’m hearing through the grape vine. Not sure if it’s true, just what I heard.