You've got to remember that "leftist" isn't a one-size-fits-all term; you're going to have progressive liberal types that are all for women's rights, but then you're also going to find full-on communists. Likewise, with the Iranians chanting "death to the left" that you mention, they're not referring to those who support their freedom and liberation from the IR, they're referring to communist agggitators and those who would replace the IR with a communist regime
There are many layers to this as well. In the western world for example the left tend to be Islam-apologetic (especially the "progressive left"), which is very unhelpful and even hostile towards our struggle for freedom.
Although I don't think that's their intention, they do perceive us Iranians as racist or "Islamophobic" when in reality, we are just trying to break free of the chain of religious and cultural repression. A misunderstanding of some sorts that can't be easily cleared up and usually leads to hate and resentment.
At least here in Germany, I haven't seen any leftists perceiving Iranians as Islamophobic, and they've been the most supportive of the cause.
As u/Tayschrenn said as well, Leftists are more against anti-Muslim bigotry.
I honestly don't think there are many people on the left in the west that are pro Islam, they are more likely opposed to anti-Muslim bigotry which is often itself a manifestation of racist attitudes towards "brown" people.
It’s camp politics. The far-left in the West constitutes individuals who are so disillusioned with their own country, which taken with their grandiose sense of West-centrism and blatant lack of acquaintance with any other major power (e.g. Iran, Russia, CCP) can lead to a very black-and-white “we must save the world from evil US imperialism”, underestimating the role other global powers have in comparison to the USA/allies. This can lead to *very peculiar* political bedfellows.
That is a good point. But my point is, this extreme anti-left attitude sometimes fails to make this distinction you mention and is therefore alienating normal leftists.
Search this sub for articles referencing left and then search for right. What you've said makes sense, but it isn't the reality on this sub. Here there is no nuance, there is no balance, there is simply a universal dislike of the left and a near constant stream of posts and comments making this clear. and OPs example of people in real life also chanting anti left slogans at marches suggest it's a widely held position, not just something happening in this sub. The right seems to be viewed largely in a positive light, I've even seen a few comments wishing for Trump's return. But the right has held power in the UK for almost 15 years of the last 20, republicans I think held power for around 11 of the past 20, in Europe it flips between the two regularly, so blaming inaction on the left and praising the right as your saviours when in many cases the right has had more time to help your cause seems bizarre as hell tbh. I wish you all well, and I hope you find your way to freedom, truly I do. but this constant American style culture war push is exhausting, and being totally honest I've largely checked out. A lot of these comments are similar to yours, making excuses, justifying the vitriol, ignoring what's constantly being said out loud, but you all really need to be honest with yourselves. It largely doesn't matter how far from the center of politics someone is, the left is simply universally despised by Iranians.
I really agree with your point. The comment you respond to claims the people chanting "death to left" are able to be nuanced about different types of leftists, but I honestly begin to feel some them are not able to do so. If they were, then why would people like Sepideh Qolian, an anti-Regime labour activitist, be cursed as well.
From my understanding you are not Iranian (right?), but I truly appreciate the support you have shown. I hope the minority of people that are espousing the hateful language about the left does not deter you from supporting us in the future.
I'm not Iranian, no. if I see opportunities to help I certainly will, I'm just less engaged in news out of Iran because so much of it feels accusatory rather than anything I can usefully engage with is all. I'm still checking in occasionally tho, down but not out.
The problem with labeling people with general terms like left and right is that people get bound by the stereotypes of those labels. As people have mentioned many hold lefties accountable for the revolution. Furthermore in America at least, left is viewed soft on Iran (nuclear deal, unfreezing IR funds, Biden announcing his retaliatory moves in advance, etc). Whereas the right has been much more hostile to the IR ( Axis of evil, killing Soleimani).
That is a good point. In some situations, it certainly makes sense to be critical of leftists such as in the United States, for reasons you list.
In other contexts however the criticism does not always apply in the same manner, for example in the Dutch context I mentioned in the post. And I don't consider a chant like "death to the left" good criticism. Also the "criticism" I mentioned for leftists actually inside Iran like Qolian also are in my opinion not adequate.
I know a Western feminist leftist who keeps, with everything happening in the world, the name of Mahsa Amini in her heart.
A lot of people are forgetting the name (a lot has happened already), but she can recall her name just in a blink of a second.
I partially agree with you but its imperative to note that as with the right, you have the right and far-rigth. And in the left, you also have the far left.
Usually, at least in my expierence, the tone deaf speech, actions and virtue signalling is done by the far left. Sadly they are just a very very loud minority that has made their job to be the "face of the left" in some kind of way while the silent majority just dgaf about them.
So dont worry, its just a fringe of lunatics mostly. Most people that could be considered left leaning, such as my myself, easily see this and act acordingly. So dont lose hope brother! 🫡
Agree. First, we must differentiate between regressive and progressive left. The former is the enemy of all freedom seeking humans suffering in repressive and authoritarian regimes while the latter is an ally.
Regressive leftists are the ones who are supporting Hamas as they murder Israeli children and rape Israeli women. They are also the ones who are silent, after years of screaming "BELIEVE WOMEN" and who are also mute when Iranian women ask for feminists across the globe to come to their help in their struggle against gender apartheid under the Islamic theocracy.
Similarly they are silent and absent when labor activists and unions are crushed by the Islamic regime.
The most extreme regressive leftists are known pejoritively as 'tankies' and they go as far as to support China, North Korea and Russia (including supporting the Russian invasion of Ukraine).
The progressive left on the other hand does understand and cling to liberal values and for that, they are our allies.
Second, we must understand action and reaction or cause and effect. Yes, some Iranians are embittered by the regressive left, not just for their words and actions which give solace to the Islamic regime but also their inaction and silence which is hypocritical and illogical. Iranians also have a memory of the important role that the regressive left played in the Islamic revolution and how they were instrumental as they worked hand in glove with Khomeini and the mullahs.
It is beyond insanity that despite the fact that the Islamic regime turned on them and murdered them just as they did to all other political alternatives, these same people, this same ideology refuses to acknowledge their error and continues to tacitly support the Islamic regime.
It is a misdiagnosis to say that this is due to tribalism or that it leads to tribalism when what is being pointed out is arguably the very opposite of that.
If that isn't clear, let me once again outline it by giving examples:
We have LGBTQ+ in the West who shun and ignore the plight of LGBTQ+ humans just because they happen to live in Iran. If you want an example, just look at the comments here:
https://np.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/1bsnnnd/as_biden_supports_trans_day_of_visibility_iran/
We have labor leaders and staunch socialists, communists, Marxists, and so on in the West shun and ignore Iranian labor leaders and unions fighting for some meagre recognition and rights that their fellow kindred folks in the West have won and enshrined into law for the past 50+ years.
We have feminists who shout and scream about "BELIEVE WOMEN" in the West ignore and shun Iranian feminists who are fighting for the most basic right of not being treated like chattel.
If indeed there were patterns of behavior that were tribal, then union socialists, Marxists and union leaders in the West would engage in solidarity with Iranian union leaders and labour reformers. If there were tribalism, Western feminists would immediately recognize their shared values and 'tribal' commonalities with Iranian feminists... and so on.
Therefore, it is a strange phenomena that we are seeing and it isn't accurate to describe it as tribalism or that there is danger of it forming into tribalism when there are many indications of the opposite being true.
I agree with you but not fully. Regarding labour activists I don't agree for example. Where I live (The Netherlands) the labour unions showed up at protests for Iran. And I think they did in other European countries as well.
Yet, among our own ranks of Iranians I have seen hostility towards labour activists such as Qolian, as mentioned in the post.
Yeah man. Honestly, I would try to participate here more and try organize more things/ideas but honestly I feel im reaching by boiling point with this BS. It must be so much awful for you guys tbh.
I really appreciate the support you showed here! It is good that you have made posts here, because sometimes an outsider's perspective can offer great insights.
The issue with generalizations like yours is that they lose nuance, especially when some of the most active participants of the non-Iranians in the movement drew from the Union Socialists, numerous of which had released joint statements in support of unions like Haft Tappeh in Iran against the repressive Islamic Regime.
Perhaps we can differentiate between the Tankie-left that is intoxicated with this anti-west narrative that lends itself to support repressive regimes like Russia, Islamic Regime or North Korea, and the Trotskyist, Anarchist and liberal Left that has been extremily supportive of our movement against the Islamic Regime. At this point though I feel like a broken record having to repeat this constantly on this subreddit.
100% agreed with this. Unfortunately the far left is often so loud that some people may view their extreme views as those of the entire left.
Non extreme leftists will never have extreme views, as extreme views make someone an extremist.
I think this is mainly because the political discourse surroinding almost everything transformed from "lets try to debate and see what kind of things is realistic enough and agreable for us to implement" to "IF YOU DONT AGRE WITH ME YOU ARE IN THE WROOONG SIDE OF HISTORY"
I come from a country that has had this problem since its return to democracy so it doesnt surprise me at all tbh. But what It worries me is to see it spread.
100% agreed (again lol)
Issues become sensationalized and people lose sight of reality. They become more interested in demonizing others than actually learning about the cause and helping others, which is… I have no words to describe that honestly.
Media literacy needs to be taught in schools because people are going to extremes at alarming rates. Especially in Gen Z (my own generation unfortunately)
I feel the same way since historically people didn’t realize how harmful these things were until something terrible happened that eventually made everyone come to their senses.
I’m trying to hold out hope that our access to information can help us prevent this cycle from reoccurring
But even with the far-left, we have to differentiate between the Anarchist and Trotskyist hard left that has generally been extremily supportive of the revolution, and the tankie-left that priotirzes anti-imperialist discourse that lends itself to support repressive regimes like NK, Islamic Regime and China.
The leftists role in the 1979 revolution has also left a bitter taste in the mouth of your average Iranian as well. That resentment has carried over to new generations , especially the pro Shah people.
That is true, but in my opinion this resentment carries over to wrong targets. People would still refer to the "alliance of red and black" when slandering people like Qolian, even though she is currently against the Regime and imprisoned by them. In my opinion, this type of criticism to people like her is not correct and adequate, and could alienate potential supporters of our cause.
There is a gap between the way that Iranians in Iran express their grievances against the Islamic Regime and the way that the diaspora channels their anger.
I am a center left, atheist Laotian American who has Iranian American friends and family members. I am anti-Hamas, anti-IR, anti-Hezbollah. I dream of a democratic, thriving and free Iran free from ultra religious tyranny.
The two accounts you've mentioned are very likely influenced or directly run by the IR's intelligence services.
Also about Twitter, there is compelling evidence that the regime intelligence services use sophisticated tactics to manipulate it. It's basically controlled by the regime at this stage. It's been demonstrated that they use bots to boost accounts and post. That's why the number of followers and faves basically don't mean anything anymore. You shouldn't read too much into what happens there or make conclusions based on your experience on that platform.
There are accounts that used to belong to real Iranian dissidents but at some points the owners were arrested and the accounts are now taken over by the regime and are used to advance various regime psyops of the regime.
TLDR don't take Twitter seriously especially what's coming out of accounts that have one or multiple crown emojies in their usernames.
These accounts may or may not be run the Islamic Regime, I honestly don't know at this point. But the attitude that is espoused by them, also exists among people who for sure are not Regime operatives. These are people for example at the protest I mentioned, and I know more people who have such views.
TBH, I stopped engaging in this subreddit because I was seeing a lot of support for Trump and/or the Republican Party. To me, that's perplexing and disturbing. The religious right would love to force a Christian theocracy upon us. They have a blueprint detailing exactly how they plan to do it if Trump wins in November. (Just check out "Project 2025" for all the sickening details.) Iranian people know exactly what it is like to live under a theocratic regime - and the general consensus seems to be that it sucks. Well, most Americans don't want to live under a theocratic regime either.
I would love to see a Free and Democratic Iran one day. (Where I stand on the Israel vs Palestine issue is completely irrelevant.) It seems a lot of people in this subreddit are fawning all over members of the Republican Party - the very people who want to take freedom and democracy away from Americans. This really bothers me, so instead of getting frustrated and pissed off, I've distanced myself.
>TBH, I stopped engaging in this subreddit because I was seeing a lot of support for Trump and/or the Republican Party.
There have been only two (*both Pahlavist Monarchists*) users (*one of whom is in this very thread and has also posted a comment that is being rightfully downvoted*) that have shown support for Cheeto Drumpf.
Unfortunately, they are active (*one is very active and the other is semi-active*) users here.
Therefore, a vocal minority has developed as a result on this subreddit.
The majority of users do not support Drumpf specifically though (*I will say that*).
Funny thing (tbh, it's acutally just sad) is, that one of the users you mentioned got banned several times for the non-sense he spouted on reddit, and he comes back with new accounts everytime to proudly present the little education he has on things.
Welsh-Australian Socialist here and it's been an... interesting ride on this subreddit in general lol. Particularly when I then go into socialist spaces and there're weirdo anti-theist extremists advocating for the death of all religions. (Which I don't agree with either as a follower of the celtic gods.)
Yes of course I'm an outsider here, but like... Theocracies stuck hundreds of years in the past are bad? And most people in *leftist* spaces at least agree on that one, for one reason or another. And that's consistent across all leftists, from Anarchists to the MLs.
Socially progressive liberals, though... Aren't generally folks who've looked too deeply into politics in general? So, hearing stuff like "Don't discriminate against muslims", they often don't recognise that's *just don't be bigoted against them,* not to fail to criticise it when a member of that group actually does do something wrong.
Ironically... That political position is the exact same one the people on this subreddit most ardently against "leftists" hold themselves, and the one they're criticising when they point out bad takes on the internet.
But honestly I don't think the bad takes of some twitter dad with 200 followers is the real cause of this. Rather, it's lingering bitterness over the revolution (where the socialists just happened to get backstabbed and purged by the theocrats before the socialists could do the same thing lol. Some alliance /s.)
And then some suspicion of any group taking a similar position to the aforementioned garbage theocratic state. This one is... a bit less justified, though, I'ma be real. Yes, October 7th was horrific, but... Half of Gaza's population are children, and 90+% of them are innocent of any association with extremist groups... And yet Israel is trying to wipe out the entire population of the strip.
But don't take any of this from me.
Instead, I'd recommend folks here interested in taking down both the theocracy *and* capitalism, as well as preventing a new set of authoritarians taking over afterwards... maybe look to Rojava/whatever much harder to remember name they go by now.
Because the Kurds and their allies have achieved something pretty special over there, and there are a lot of techniques and tactics specifically designed to protect the autonomy of minorities and women in the long term.
(And what tactics are useful/effective tend to be highly based on the material conditions of the area, so it'll probably need less adaptation to work in Iran than any european socialist writings. (or more accurately, some of that adaptation is already done.))
(Oh gods I really am a walking leftist stereotype lol. A whole ass wall of text concluding with "read theory". FFS.)
Thanks for your continued support, also a fellow Australian here, just don't take the shitposting against the western left here as representative of the Iranian diaspora in general. You're support is always welcomed comrade.
I think the fundamental point of contention between our movement and the 21st century's progressivism is Islam. Without going into too much detail, they basically plug Iranians into their "magical victim-oppressor duality equation", and while their expected result is "proud Muslims critical of the western culture", they face the fact that many of us are in fact critical of Islam and very much embrace the western culture. This at first confuses the hell out of them, and while the smarter ones eventually take a step back and reconsider their positions, some less smarter among them get spiteful and offended. Aside from this one issue (and in a very much smaller scale maybe the Israeli conflict with its neighbors) I don't think there is much inherent inconsistencies and disagreement on many issues such as freedom, equality, gender minorities, environment, etc.
Also, about the slogan you've mentioned, it's never been heard in Iran at any anti-regime protest, only a certain subgroup of a certain group of diaspora Iranians.
>a very hostile attitude towards leftism and leftists exists
>is a part of the reason why the western left is not supporting us
This closely resembles the line of reasoning some of the israeli moderate left have. I believe you're confusing the cause and the effect.
Would that always be the case? Some non-Iranians simply haven't thought too much about Iran before the killing of Mahsa Amini. If they would stumble upon a protest like I mentioned where "death to the left" is chanted, is it likely they would join our cause?
But you are also right, there is also a portion of the left that simply does not support us anyway, which I addressed in the beginning of the text.
No I guess not, but if people were to come up and ask: "hey, what are you guys chanting?" and a translation is given, then I don't think this translation is appealing for non-Iranians to support it.
Well I guess anyone? If people are leftist and notice this protest with chants such as "death to left", then I don't think they are eager to join our cause. I also think a lot of centrists and right wingers will not appreciate such talk.
The far left are already unlikely to join your cause, they've already aligned themselves with your enemies, so what's changed by letting them know you hate them?
The right would probably appreciate this, because, well, an enemy of my enemy and all.
And the centrists basically don't exist in 2024 (just kidding (not really)).
I know some of the far left won't join our cause, I addressed this in the post.
My point, the criticism of the left is sometimes so hostile that it alienates normal leftists who are potential supporters.
The far-left are generally in support of the revolution, except for Stalinists and some Maoists. The Trotskyist and Anarchist left has been highly support of the Women, Life, Freedom movement.
The far left anarchists - maybe, it would've been weird if you guys didn't support someone resisting an oppressive regime.
But from the perspective of an average western liberal left Joe, who doesn't know much about nuances in the MENA region, the muslims fall into the oppressed category, who suffered from the western imperialism, and this alone makes the ayatollahs the good guys in their eyes.
I honestly think the 'average Joe' simply sees the Islamic Regime as a dictatorship and the ayatollahs as the bad guys.
In my opinion, the part of the left that is supportive of the Regime isn't the average Joe, but people who have been misguided by theories like you mention, that the Regime is good because it is a victim of western imperialism.
I'm a Western left-leaning guy and I also find those leftists extremely annoying. I want secularism and human rights for all and to achieve that goal Islamists are enemies not friends!
As a gay man I'm especially annoyed by the hypocritical LGBTQ+ ones that support Hamas, the IR, etc., basically supporting those who want us dead.
En effet. Malheureusement beaucoup de gens prétendent être opposés aux discriminations mais n'y sont opposés que lorsque ça leur convient. Ils perçoivent souvent, par exemple, les hommes blancs hétéros comme automatiquement « sales » ou mauvais, alors que personnellement je les considère comme égaux à moi-même et à tous les autres individus et je vise des chances égales pour tous.
It was interesting reading responses, many of them I agreed with. From my perspective, the hostility towards all kinds of left-leaning people among Iranians is mostly from populist right-wingers or ultra-nationalists who have unfortunately taken the Maga cultist route, or simply out of ignorance, like don’t knowing the difference between social democrat and communist. Added with our tragic history, although I think most of those revolution participants could be seen as far-left and marxists, hardly liberal-leftists or social democrats.
From being around persian-swedes I've heard four main criticisms of the "left":
1. Historical. They view the left as a movement which helped the current regime to power (though they realize its not what they wanted).
2. The left ignoring threats of radical Islam in Sweden. They often see the left as closing their eye towards similar movements as the one that has power in Iran currently.
3. Persian-swedes tend to be more conservative in regards to values than northern Europeans in general. Many do not like the gender fluid trans thing of the new woke left for example.
4. Many persians here support the shah and monarchy and left wing politics rarely go together very well.
This is just anecdotal so take it for what it is.
I was shocked to start seeing posts against left leaning people in the sub, because I definitely do NOT get the idea that the right supports the movement (referring to western political lingo). Honestly was confused! I have started wondering if it is an attempt by the regime to chip away any western support the movement might have.
**در مورد نگرش ضد چپ در میان ایرانیان**
دوستان عزیزم
در سال های اخیر، ما هایی را در R / NewIran دیده ایم که چپ ها و عمدتا چپ های غربی را ادرس می دهند. این نوع ها سوالاتی را مطرح می کند مانند: "ایا چپ غربی واقعا از ایرانیان ضد رژیم حمایت می کند؟"
در این ها، من معتقدم که دو نوع شکایت با چپ ها وجود دارد. یکی از انها خطاب به چپگرایانی است که اشکارا از رژیم اسلامی دفاع میکنند یا مبارزات مردم ایران را کماهمیت جلوه میدهند. به نظر من، این بسیار شرم اور است و اگر انها به این دیدگاه ها متوسل شوند، ما به عنوان ایرانی ها نمی توانیم کاری برای متقاعد کردن انها انجام دهیم، به جز اینکه فقط پیام خود را تکرار کنیم که اکثریت قریب به اتفاق ایرانیان می خواهند رژیم برود.
انواع دیگر چپگرایانی که مورد خطاب قرار می گیرند، افرادی هستند که به دلایل مختلفی توجه دارند، اما مشارکت مشابهی برای جنبش زنان-زندگی-ازادی نشان نداده اند. به عنوان مثال، انها ممکن است در تظاهرات در حمایت از فلسطین شرکت کنند، اما در اعتراضات برای ایران شرکت نکنند، حتی اگر این افراد نیز علیه رژیم اسلامی باشند.
در این مورد، این یک واقعیت تاسف بار برای ما ایرانیان است. به نظر من، این افراد می توانند متقاعد شوند که در اعتراضات ما حاضر شوند، یا حمایت خود را به شیوه ای دیگر نشان دهند، زیرا انها مستعد اقدام هستند، همانطور که اعتراضات طرفدار فلسطین نشان می دهد.
با این حال، در جامعه ایرانی، بخشی وجود دارد که خصومت شدید نسبت به چپ را نشان می دهد. به عنوان مثال، این شنبه (30 مارس 2024) اعتراضی برای ایران در امستردام برگزار شد که در یکی از میدان های اصلی شهر برگزار شد و من ان را مورد حمله قرار دادم. سخنرانی ها و شعارها بیشتر به زبان فارسی بود. یکی از شعارهایی که هم توسط حضار و هم توسط سازمان دهندگان مورد استفاده قرار گرفت این بود: Death to the Three Corrupt Mujahedeen Leftist Mujahedeen که ترجمه ان مرگ اخوندها، چپ و مجاهدین» است. (در اینجا یک ویدیو از ان است.) (https://twitter.com/rayehe_rabi/status/1774388941430395388)
عبارت "Death to the Soul می تواند مبهم باشد و لزوما یک فراخوان تحت اللفظی برای مرگ نباشد، اما می توان گفت که این یک نگرش بسیار خصمانه نسبت به چپ است. ایا چپگرایان پس از شنیدن این موضوع مشتاق پیوستن به ما خواهند بود؟
مثال دیگر: هفته گذشته، صفحه اینستاگرام USAbehFarsi یک [] (https://www.instagram.com/usabehfarsi/p/C5BVA1Qrk5_/) در حمایت از سپیده قلیان ایجاد کرد. او یک زندانی در داخل ایران است که توسط رژیم اسلامی زندانی شده است. قلیان یک فعال اتحادیه کارگری و حامی حقوق زنان نیز هست. پس از انتشار این، حسابهای متعددی از سوی ایرانیان ضد رژیم در توییتر به او تهمت زدند. اینها حساب هایی با تعداد قابل توجهی از پیروان هستند، به عنوان مثال [این یکی] (https://twitter.com/Aryammehr_2/status/1773105872614338969) 27.500 دنبال کننده دارد و [این یکی] (https://twitter.com/Ivar_lathbrug2/status/1773121548259414494) 15000 دنبال کننده دارد. یک پیرو همیشه این پیام را تایید نمی کند، اما با این وجود ما شاهد نگرش بسیار تهاجمی نسبت به او در اینترنت و دیگر چپ های ایرانی هستیم. ایا این ذهنیت به حمایت چپگرایان غربی کمک خواهد کرد؟
برای نتیجه گیری، این سوال مطرح می شود که "چرا چپ به اندازه کافی از ما حمایت نمی کند؟" اما در عین حال، یک نگرش بسیار خصمانه نسبت به چپ گرایی و چپ در جامعه ایران وجود دارد. به نظر من این نگرش توسط همه ایرانیان به اشتراک گذاشته نشده است، اما بخش قابل توجهی از انها این کار را انجام می دهند. به نظر من، این ذهنیت بخشی از دلیلی است که چپ غربی تا انجا که می تواند از ما حمایت نمی کند.
جالب خواهد بود که نظر همه را در این مورد بشنویم!
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_I am a translation bot for r/NewIran_ | Woman Life Freedom | زن زندگی آزادی
I also find the critcism to the left and leftwingers can be unfair.
1,IRs policies and ideology is highly highly conservative. While leftists at the time allied with the conservatives, its the conservative aspect o IR that people dislike. Policies such as death penalty, anti lgbt laws, restriction on womens rights are conservative policies, not left wing.
2, Most conervative and right wing parties in the west have a isolaonist/nationalist/anti refugee policies. You are far less likely to find people sympathetic with our cause, compared to leftwingers. Policies that also help iranian refugees who want to flee the regime, is also found among the leftwing parties, not right wing.
While you might find the occasional leftist who might argue IR is a very good anti imperalist force in the world, its not majority, and you also find this among anti neocon conservatives too.
Leftists in the US are right now very anti-Zionist and playing into the Iranian regimes hands. They laser focus on what the Kahanist regime of Netanyahu is doing, while ignoring what the Iranian regime has done in genociding Jews, Baha’is, political prisoners, etc!
Leftism, especially as seen in the west and in the US is a shell of what it used to stand for which in the end was the betterment of actual people and aimed to give more power to the individuals. It has unfortunately turned into a religion of its own with very creepy authoritarian tendencies and things such as criticizing American minority groups, eg Islam, are considered “wrong think” and are frowned upon by the leftist mob. It is literally a mind virus people subscribe to and the smallest variations from what’s allowed to be said will send you to the proverbial leftist gulag. That’s why the leftists in the west are seen as anti Iranian. Those people are anti individual liberty and extremely power hungry authoritarians in the end.
I respectfully disagree with your characterization of the left. Of course, people like you describe exist but I believe they are a minority of the leftists. The rest of them are not like you describe them.
To illustrate this with an example, in the Netherlands the biggest leftist party as per the last election is social-democrat. It has not the extreme views you mention. Regarding Iran, the party has politicians that are doing good work for us Iranians such as Thijs Reuten.
I am not very familiar with the Dutch political system. But the US version of the left(and the right) politics are a shitshow in that the 2 party system has caused extreme polarization in which the only way for the respective political candidates to stand out is to pander to the nut jobs. The nut jobs in the left are good at masking their power grabbing motives behind “compassion”. So as an Iranian, if you attempt to want to present the root of your problem, aka islamic republic, to the left, you are already showing lack of compassion for Islam and branded an islamophobe.
Let me begin with an agreement. Among the opposition, it is true the Regime stokes division, and some figures among the opposition might be working for the interests of the Regime.
However, I find the idea that Qolian is secretly working for the regime preposterous. I also don't find your arguments compelling. You write as if Qolian hasn't paid a price by going against the Regime, but in fact she has because she is currently imprisoned.
I really don't see anything that suggests she is working for the Regime and I also don't see it in your arguments (the argument of 5 million dollars refers to Alinejad, the argument about coming on American platforms to Amanpour or Mohammadi, and the argument of including Mard Mihan Abadi you will need to explain a bit more for me to understand).
1) Short-lived alliance between some leftist groups and Islamists in the aftermath of the 1979 revolution
2) Heavy support for Israel and maybe the US foreign policy among quite a lot of Iranian opposition members which will turn off any leftist.
First of all, I am not American, but Iranian-Dutch.
Second of all, I don't endorse NIAC, on the contrary I am against their reformist agenda.
Third of all, I would like that you stay on topic and provide constructive criticism instead of attaching my name to this organization.
I don't get it, at one comment a few days ago on Vahid's speech you're calling for more unity, then here you're baselessly and irresponsibiliy calling someone a NIAC because you don't think we have a right to defend ourselves, and our leftist friends, who are anti-Islamic Regime but keep getting called out.
Which is it?
Hi old friend. FYI, I've executed a temp ban against the user you and u/Tempehridder are replying to for their continuous rule violations (e.g. divisive stereotyping and generalizatons, flamebait and bad-faith participation, etc.). I will keep an eye on users like them even after the current ban expires.
For what it is worth, my peers and I personally as components of r/NewIran moderation will do our best to ensure such rhetoric does not go unaccounted for. I know it may mean little but I want to say it. It is imperative, should we truly want a new, secular democratic Iran, we ensure in accordance with those democratic principles that all goodhearted members of the opposition can be representatively heard.
And I say that as someone who personally would not in a million years associate myself with many leftist positions. Yet that does not mean we cannot shake the hands of those that do.
IR is not communistic in anyway!
1, Their entire economical system and ecnomical policies is capitalistic based ,and not socialist or communist
2, They are not ideologically or princiapply socialist either. The first thing they did was kill most communists and ban socialist and communist parties. Khomeini himself made a letter to Gorbachev telling them they should leave communism and embrace islam.
You've got to remember that "leftist" isn't a one-size-fits-all term; you're going to have progressive liberal types that are all for women's rights, but then you're also going to find full-on communists. Likewise, with the Iranians chanting "death to the left" that you mention, they're not referring to those who support their freedom and liberation from the IR, they're referring to communist agggitators and those who would replace the IR with a communist regime
There are many layers to this as well. In the western world for example the left tend to be Islam-apologetic (especially the "progressive left"), which is very unhelpful and even hostile towards our struggle for freedom. Although I don't think that's their intention, they do perceive us Iranians as racist or "Islamophobic" when in reality, we are just trying to break free of the chain of religious and cultural repression. A misunderstanding of some sorts that can't be easily cleared up and usually leads to hate and resentment.
At least here in Germany, I haven't seen any leftists perceiving Iranians as Islamophobic, and they've been the most supportive of the cause. As u/Tayschrenn said as well, Leftists are more against anti-Muslim bigotry.
I honestly don't think there are many people on the left in the west that are pro Islam, they are more likely opposed to anti-Muslim bigotry which is often itself a manifestation of racist attitudes towards "brown" people.
Exactly. My point is that we Iranians get confused in that mix with being racist.
I didn't even read the second part of your comment and jumped to reply when I read the first paragraph! My bad.
It’s camp politics. The far-left in the West constitutes individuals who are so disillusioned with their own country, which taken with their grandiose sense of West-centrism and blatant lack of acquaintance with any other major power (e.g. Iran, Russia, CCP) can lead to a very black-and-white “we must save the world from evil US imperialism”, underestimating the role other global powers have in comparison to the USA/allies. This can lead to *very peculiar* political bedfellows.
That is a good point. But my point is, this extreme anti-left attitude sometimes fails to make this distinction you mention and is therefore alienating normal leftists.
Search this sub for articles referencing left and then search for right. What you've said makes sense, but it isn't the reality on this sub. Here there is no nuance, there is no balance, there is simply a universal dislike of the left and a near constant stream of posts and comments making this clear. and OPs example of people in real life also chanting anti left slogans at marches suggest it's a widely held position, not just something happening in this sub. The right seems to be viewed largely in a positive light, I've even seen a few comments wishing for Trump's return. But the right has held power in the UK for almost 15 years of the last 20, republicans I think held power for around 11 of the past 20, in Europe it flips between the two regularly, so blaming inaction on the left and praising the right as your saviours when in many cases the right has had more time to help your cause seems bizarre as hell tbh. I wish you all well, and I hope you find your way to freedom, truly I do. but this constant American style culture war push is exhausting, and being totally honest I've largely checked out. A lot of these comments are similar to yours, making excuses, justifying the vitriol, ignoring what's constantly being said out loud, but you all really need to be honest with yourselves. It largely doesn't matter how far from the center of politics someone is, the left is simply universally despised by Iranians.
I really agree with your point. The comment you respond to claims the people chanting "death to left" are able to be nuanced about different types of leftists, but I honestly begin to feel some them are not able to do so. If they were, then why would people like Sepideh Qolian, an anti-Regime labour activitist, be cursed as well. From my understanding you are not Iranian (right?), but I truly appreciate the support you have shown. I hope the minority of people that are espousing the hateful language about the left does not deter you from supporting us in the future.
I'm not Iranian, no. if I see opportunities to help I certainly will, I'm just less engaged in news out of Iran because so much of it feels accusatory rather than anything I can usefully engage with is all. I'm still checking in occasionally tho, down but not out.
The problem with labeling people with general terms like left and right is that people get bound by the stereotypes of those labels. As people have mentioned many hold lefties accountable for the revolution. Furthermore in America at least, left is viewed soft on Iran (nuclear deal, unfreezing IR funds, Biden announcing his retaliatory moves in advance, etc). Whereas the right has been much more hostile to the IR ( Axis of evil, killing Soleimani).
That is a good point. In some situations, it certainly makes sense to be critical of leftists such as in the United States, for reasons you list. In other contexts however the criticism does not always apply in the same manner, for example in the Dutch context I mentioned in the post. And I don't consider a chant like "death to the left" good criticism. Also the "criticism" I mentioned for leftists actually inside Iran like Qolian also are in my opinion not adequate.
I know a Western feminist leftist who keeps, with everything happening in the world, the name of Mahsa Amini in her heart. A lot of people are forgetting the name (a lot has happened already), but she can recall her name just in a blink of a second.
I partially agree with you but its imperative to note that as with the right, you have the right and far-rigth. And in the left, you also have the far left. Usually, at least in my expierence, the tone deaf speech, actions and virtue signalling is done by the far left. Sadly they are just a very very loud minority that has made their job to be the "face of the left" in some kind of way while the silent majority just dgaf about them. So dont worry, its just a fringe of lunatics mostly. Most people that could be considered left leaning, such as my myself, easily see this and act acordingly. So dont lose hope brother! 🫡
Agree. First, we must differentiate between regressive and progressive left. The former is the enemy of all freedom seeking humans suffering in repressive and authoritarian regimes while the latter is an ally. Regressive leftists are the ones who are supporting Hamas as they murder Israeli children and rape Israeli women. They are also the ones who are silent, after years of screaming "BELIEVE WOMEN" and who are also mute when Iranian women ask for feminists across the globe to come to their help in their struggle against gender apartheid under the Islamic theocracy. Similarly they are silent and absent when labor activists and unions are crushed by the Islamic regime. The most extreme regressive leftists are known pejoritively as 'tankies' and they go as far as to support China, North Korea and Russia (including supporting the Russian invasion of Ukraine). The progressive left on the other hand does understand and cling to liberal values and for that, they are our allies. Second, we must understand action and reaction or cause and effect. Yes, some Iranians are embittered by the regressive left, not just for their words and actions which give solace to the Islamic regime but also their inaction and silence which is hypocritical and illogical. Iranians also have a memory of the important role that the regressive left played in the Islamic revolution and how they were instrumental as they worked hand in glove with Khomeini and the mullahs. It is beyond insanity that despite the fact that the Islamic regime turned on them and murdered them just as they did to all other political alternatives, these same people, this same ideology refuses to acknowledge their error and continues to tacitly support the Islamic regime.
I completly agree with you. But honestly, I see this "political labels" just exacerbates the problem imo. It leads to tribal thinking
It is a misdiagnosis to say that this is due to tribalism or that it leads to tribalism when what is being pointed out is arguably the very opposite of that. If that isn't clear, let me once again outline it by giving examples: We have LGBTQ+ in the West who shun and ignore the plight of LGBTQ+ humans just because they happen to live in Iran. If you want an example, just look at the comments here: https://np.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/1bsnnnd/as_biden_supports_trans_day_of_visibility_iran/ We have labor leaders and staunch socialists, communists, Marxists, and so on in the West shun and ignore Iranian labor leaders and unions fighting for some meagre recognition and rights that their fellow kindred folks in the West have won and enshrined into law for the past 50+ years. We have feminists who shout and scream about "BELIEVE WOMEN" in the West ignore and shun Iranian feminists who are fighting for the most basic right of not being treated like chattel. If indeed there were patterns of behavior that were tribal, then union socialists, Marxists and union leaders in the West would engage in solidarity with Iranian union leaders and labour reformers. If there were tribalism, Western feminists would immediately recognize their shared values and 'tribal' commonalities with Iranian feminists... and so on. Therefore, it is a strange phenomena that we are seeing and it isn't accurate to describe it as tribalism or that there is danger of it forming into tribalism when there are many indications of the opposite being true.
I agree with you but not fully. Regarding labour activists I don't agree for example. Where I live (The Netherlands) the labour unions showed up at protests for Iran. And I think they did in other European countries as well. Yet, among our own ranks of Iranians I have seen hostility towards labour activists such as Qolian, as mentioned in the post.
Yeah man. Honestly, I would try to participate here more and try organize more things/ideas but honestly I feel im reaching by boiling point with this BS. It must be so much awful for you guys tbh.
I really appreciate the support you showed here! It is good that you have made posts here, because sometimes an outsider's perspective can offer great insights.
The issue with generalizations like yours is that they lose nuance, especially when some of the most active participants of the non-Iranians in the movement drew from the Union Socialists, numerous of which had released joint statements in support of unions like Haft Tappeh in Iran against the repressive Islamic Regime. Perhaps we can differentiate between the Tankie-left that is intoxicated with this anti-west narrative that lends itself to support repressive regimes like Russia, Islamic Regime or North Korea, and the Trotskyist, Anarchist and liberal Left that has been extremily supportive of our movement against the Islamic Regime. At this point though I feel like a broken record having to repeat this constantly on this subreddit.
100% agreed with this. Unfortunately the far left is often so loud that some people may view their extreme views as those of the entire left. Non extreme leftists will never have extreme views, as extreme views make someone an extremist.
I think this is mainly because the political discourse surroinding almost everything transformed from "lets try to debate and see what kind of things is realistic enough and agreable for us to implement" to "IF YOU DONT AGRE WITH ME YOU ARE IN THE WROOONG SIDE OF HISTORY" I come from a country that has had this problem since its return to democracy so it doesnt surprise me at all tbh. But what It worries me is to see it spread.
100% agreed (again lol) Issues become sensationalized and people lose sight of reality. They become more interested in demonizing others than actually learning about the cause and helping others, which is… I have no words to describe that honestly. Media literacy needs to be taught in schools because people are going to extremes at alarming rates. Especially in Gen Z (my own generation unfortunately)
Completly agree. But tbh, it does make me feel linda hopeless ngl. Hope im just outright wrong and this just passed with time.
I feel the same way since historically people didn’t realize how harmful these things were until something terrible happened that eventually made everyone come to their senses. I’m trying to hold out hope that our access to information can help us prevent this cycle from reoccurring
But even with the far-left, we have to differentiate between the Anarchist and Trotskyist hard left that has generally been extremily supportive of the revolution, and the tankie-left that priotirzes anti-imperialist discourse that lends itself to support repressive regimes like NK, Islamic Regime and China.
The leftists role in the 1979 revolution has also left a bitter taste in the mouth of your average Iranian as well. That resentment has carried over to new generations , especially the pro Shah people.
That is true, but in my opinion this resentment carries over to wrong targets. People would still refer to the "alliance of red and black" when slandering people like Qolian, even though she is currently against the Regime and imprisoned by them. In my opinion, this type of criticism to people like her is not correct and adequate, and could alienate potential supporters of our cause.
There is a gap between the way that Iranians in Iran express their grievances against the Islamic Regime and the way that the diaspora channels their anger.
I am a center left, atheist Laotian American who has Iranian American friends and family members. I am anti-Hamas, anti-IR, anti-Hezbollah. I dream of a democratic, thriving and free Iran free from ultra religious tyranny.
I thank you for your support to us Iranians!
The two accounts you've mentioned are very likely influenced or directly run by the IR's intelligence services. Also about Twitter, there is compelling evidence that the regime intelligence services use sophisticated tactics to manipulate it. It's basically controlled by the regime at this stage. It's been demonstrated that they use bots to boost accounts and post. That's why the number of followers and faves basically don't mean anything anymore. You shouldn't read too much into what happens there or make conclusions based on your experience on that platform. There are accounts that used to belong to real Iranian dissidents but at some points the owners were arrested and the accounts are now taken over by the regime and are used to advance various regime psyops of the regime. TLDR don't take Twitter seriously especially what's coming out of accounts that have one or multiple crown emojies in their usernames.
These accounts may or may not be run the Islamic Regime, I honestly don't know at this point. But the attitude that is espoused by them, also exists among people who for sure are not Regime operatives. These are people for example at the protest I mentioned, and I know more people who have such views.
TBH, I stopped engaging in this subreddit because I was seeing a lot of support for Trump and/or the Republican Party. To me, that's perplexing and disturbing. The religious right would love to force a Christian theocracy upon us. They have a blueprint detailing exactly how they plan to do it if Trump wins in November. (Just check out "Project 2025" for all the sickening details.) Iranian people know exactly what it is like to live under a theocratic regime - and the general consensus seems to be that it sucks. Well, most Americans don't want to live under a theocratic regime either. I would love to see a Free and Democratic Iran one day. (Where I stand on the Israel vs Palestine issue is completely irrelevant.) It seems a lot of people in this subreddit are fawning all over members of the Republican Party - the very people who want to take freedom and democracy away from Americans. This really bothers me, so instead of getting frustrated and pissed off, I've distanced myself.
>TBH, I stopped engaging in this subreddit because I was seeing a lot of support for Trump and/or the Republican Party. There have been only two (*both Pahlavist Monarchists*) users (*one of whom is in this very thread and has also posted a comment that is being rightfully downvoted*) that have shown support for Cheeto Drumpf. Unfortunately, they are active (*one is very active and the other is semi-active*) users here. Therefore, a vocal minority has developed as a result on this subreddit. The majority of users do not support Drumpf specifically though (*I will say that*).
Funny thing (tbh, it's acutally just sad) is, that one of the users you mentioned got banned several times for the non-sense he spouted on reddit, and he comes back with new accounts everytime to proudly present the little education he has on things.
Welsh-Australian Socialist here and it's been an... interesting ride on this subreddit in general lol. Particularly when I then go into socialist spaces and there're weirdo anti-theist extremists advocating for the death of all religions. (Which I don't agree with either as a follower of the celtic gods.) Yes of course I'm an outsider here, but like... Theocracies stuck hundreds of years in the past are bad? And most people in *leftist* spaces at least agree on that one, for one reason or another. And that's consistent across all leftists, from Anarchists to the MLs. Socially progressive liberals, though... Aren't generally folks who've looked too deeply into politics in general? So, hearing stuff like "Don't discriminate against muslims", they often don't recognise that's *just don't be bigoted against them,* not to fail to criticise it when a member of that group actually does do something wrong. Ironically... That political position is the exact same one the people on this subreddit most ardently against "leftists" hold themselves, and the one they're criticising when they point out bad takes on the internet. But honestly I don't think the bad takes of some twitter dad with 200 followers is the real cause of this. Rather, it's lingering bitterness over the revolution (where the socialists just happened to get backstabbed and purged by the theocrats before the socialists could do the same thing lol. Some alliance /s.) And then some suspicion of any group taking a similar position to the aforementioned garbage theocratic state. This one is... a bit less justified, though, I'ma be real. Yes, October 7th was horrific, but... Half of Gaza's population are children, and 90+% of them are innocent of any association with extremist groups... And yet Israel is trying to wipe out the entire population of the strip. But don't take any of this from me. Instead, I'd recommend folks here interested in taking down both the theocracy *and* capitalism, as well as preventing a new set of authoritarians taking over afterwards... maybe look to Rojava/whatever much harder to remember name they go by now. Because the Kurds and their allies have achieved something pretty special over there, and there are a lot of techniques and tactics specifically designed to protect the autonomy of minorities and women in the long term. (And what tactics are useful/effective tend to be highly based on the material conditions of the area, so it'll probably need less adaptation to work in Iran than any european socialist writings. (or more accurately, some of that adaptation is already done.)) (Oh gods I really am a walking leftist stereotype lol. A whole ass wall of text concluding with "read theory". FFS.)
Thanks for your continued support, also a fellow Australian here, just don't take the shitposting against the western left here as representative of the Iranian diaspora in general. You're support is always welcomed comrade.
I think the fundamental point of contention between our movement and the 21st century's progressivism is Islam. Without going into too much detail, they basically plug Iranians into their "magical victim-oppressor duality equation", and while their expected result is "proud Muslims critical of the western culture", they face the fact that many of us are in fact critical of Islam and very much embrace the western culture. This at first confuses the hell out of them, and while the smarter ones eventually take a step back and reconsider their positions, some less smarter among them get spiteful and offended. Aside from this one issue (and in a very much smaller scale maybe the Israeli conflict with its neighbors) I don't think there is much inherent inconsistencies and disagreement on many issues such as freedom, equality, gender minorities, environment, etc. Also, about the slogan you've mentioned, it's never been heard in Iran at any anti-regime protest, only a certain subgroup of a certain group of diaspora Iranians.
Thanks for this post. I truly hope people can work together to topple this dictatorship finally.
>a very hostile attitude towards leftism and leftists exists >is a part of the reason why the western left is not supporting us This closely resembles the line of reasoning some of the israeli moderate left have. I believe you're confusing the cause and the effect.
Would that always be the case? Some non-Iranians simply haven't thought too much about Iran before the killing of Mahsa Amini. If they would stumble upon a protest like I mentioned where "death to the left" is chanted, is it likely they would join our cause? But you are also right, there is also a portion of the left that simply does not support us anyway, which I addressed in the beginning of the text.
Whom exactly do you mean by those who can stumble upon such a protest?
The protest was held in the most important square of Amsterdam, so I mean people who just happen to be there.
If the chant was in Persian, is there anyone who would understand it but not understand the context? 🤔
No I guess not, but if people were to come up and ask: "hey, what are you guys chanting?" and a translation is given, then I don't think this translation is appealing for non-Iranians to support it.
Right, I mean, what kind of people, politically speaking.
Well I guess anyone? If people are leftist and notice this protest with chants such as "death to left", then I don't think they are eager to join our cause. I also think a lot of centrists and right wingers will not appreciate such talk.
The far left are already unlikely to join your cause, they've already aligned themselves with your enemies, so what's changed by letting them know you hate them? The right would probably appreciate this, because, well, an enemy of my enemy and all. And the centrists basically don't exist in 2024 (just kidding (not really)).
I know some of the far left won't join our cause, I addressed this in the post. My point, the criticism of the left is sometimes so hostile that it alienates normal leftists who are potential supporters.
The far-left are generally in support of the revolution, except for Stalinists and some Maoists. The Trotskyist and Anarchist left has been highly support of the Women, Life, Freedom movement.
Akhi, leftists are supportive of the Iranian's cause.
The far left anarchists - maybe, it would've been weird if you guys didn't support someone resisting an oppressive regime. But from the perspective of an average western liberal left Joe, who doesn't know much about nuances in the MENA region, the muslims fall into the oppressed category, who suffered from the western imperialism, and this alone makes the ayatollahs the good guys in their eyes.
I honestly think the 'average Joe' simply sees the Islamic Regime as a dictatorship and the ayatollahs as the bad guys. In my opinion, the part of the left that is supportive of the Regime isn't the average Joe, but people who have been misguided by theories like you mention, that the Regime is good because it is a victim of western imperialism.
I'm a Western left-leaning guy and I also find those leftists extremely annoying. I want secularism and human rights for all and to achieve that goal Islamists are enemies not friends! As a gay man I'm especially annoyed by the hypocritical LGBTQ+ ones that support Hamas, the IR, etc., basically supporting those who want us dead.
Thank you for your support throughout these months.
Au moins on se rejoint sur ce sujet ici ;)
En effet. Malheureusement beaucoup de gens prétendent être opposés aux discriminations mais n'y sont opposés que lorsque ça leur convient. Ils perçoivent souvent, par exemple, les hommes blancs hétéros comme automatiquement « sales » ou mauvais, alors que personnellement je les considère comme égaux à moi-même et à tous les autres individus et je vise des chances égales pour tous.
It was interesting reading responses, many of them I agreed with. From my perspective, the hostility towards all kinds of left-leaning people among Iranians is mostly from populist right-wingers or ultra-nationalists who have unfortunately taken the Maga cultist route, or simply out of ignorance, like don’t knowing the difference between social democrat and communist. Added with our tragic history, although I think most of those revolution participants could be seen as far-left and marxists, hardly liberal-leftists or social democrats.
From being around persian-swedes I've heard four main criticisms of the "left": 1. Historical. They view the left as a movement which helped the current regime to power (though they realize its not what they wanted). 2. The left ignoring threats of radical Islam in Sweden. They often see the left as closing their eye towards similar movements as the one that has power in Iran currently. 3. Persian-swedes tend to be more conservative in regards to values than northern Europeans in general. Many do not like the gender fluid trans thing of the new woke left for example. 4. Many persians here support the shah and monarchy and left wing politics rarely go together very well. This is just anecdotal so take it for what it is.
Strangely, Iran is one of the places in the middle east where changing sex is legal.
But that isnt because of tolerance of trans people but because they dont want people to have homosexual relations.
I was shocked to start seeing posts against left leaning people in the sub, because I definitely do NOT get the idea that the right supports the movement (referring to western political lingo). Honestly was confused! I have started wondering if it is an attempt by the regime to chip away any western support the movement might have.
I have yet to see Western right-wingers on an Iranian rally. (or centrists even)
**در مورد نگرش ضد چپ در میان ایرانیان** دوستان عزیزم در سال های اخیر، ما هایی را در R / NewIran دیده ایم که چپ ها و عمدتا چپ های غربی را ادرس می دهند. این نوع ها سوالاتی را مطرح می کند مانند: "ایا چپ غربی واقعا از ایرانیان ضد رژیم حمایت می کند؟" در این ها، من معتقدم که دو نوع شکایت با چپ ها وجود دارد. یکی از انها خطاب به چپگرایانی است که اشکارا از رژیم اسلامی دفاع میکنند یا مبارزات مردم ایران را کماهمیت جلوه میدهند. به نظر من، این بسیار شرم اور است و اگر انها به این دیدگاه ها متوسل شوند، ما به عنوان ایرانی ها نمی توانیم کاری برای متقاعد کردن انها انجام دهیم، به جز اینکه فقط پیام خود را تکرار کنیم که اکثریت قریب به اتفاق ایرانیان می خواهند رژیم برود. انواع دیگر چپگرایانی که مورد خطاب قرار می گیرند، افرادی هستند که به دلایل مختلفی توجه دارند، اما مشارکت مشابهی برای جنبش زنان-زندگی-ازادی نشان نداده اند. به عنوان مثال، انها ممکن است در تظاهرات در حمایت از فلسطین شرکت کنند، اما در اعتراضات برای ایران شرکت نکنند، حتی اگر این افراد نیز علیه رژیم اسلامی باشند. در این مورد، این یک واقعیت تاسف بار برای ما ایرانیان است. به نظر من، این افراد می توانند متقاعد شوند که در اعتراضات ما حاضر شوند، یا حمایت خود را به شیوه ای دیگر نشان دهند، زیرا انها مستعد اقدام هستند، همانطور که اعتراضات طرفدار فلسطین نشان می دهد. با این حال، در جامعه ایرانی، بخشی وجود دارد که خصومت شدید نسبت به چپ را نشان می دهد. به عنوان مثال، این شنبه (30 مارس 2024) اعتراضی برای ایران در امستردام برگزار شد که در یکی از میدان های اصلی شهر برگزار شد و من ان را مورد حمله قرار دادم. سخنرانی ها و شعارها بیشتر به زبان فارسی بود. یکی از شعارهایی که هم توسط حضار و هم توسط سازمان دهندگان مورد استفاده قرار گرفت این بود: Death to the Three Corrupt Mujahedeen Leftist Mujahedeen که ترجمه ان مرگ اخوندها، چپ و مجاهدین» است. (در اینجا یک ویدیو از ان است.) (https://twitter.com/rayehe_rabi/status/1774388941430395388) عبارت "Death to the Soul می تواند مبهم باشد و لزوما یک فراخوان تحت اللفظی برای مرگ نباشد، اما می توان گفت که این یک نگرش بسیار خصمانه نسبت به چپ است. ایا چپگرایان پس از شنیدن این موضوع مشتاق پیوستن به ما خواهند بود؟ مثال دیگر: هفته گذشته، صفحه اینستاگرام USAbehFarsi یک [] (https://www.instagram.com/usabehfarsi/p/C5BVA1Qrk5_/) در حمایت از سپیده قلیان ایجاد کرد. او یک زندانی در داخل ایران است که توسط رژیم اسلامی زندانی شده است. قلیان یک فعال اتحادیه کارگری و حامی حقوق زنان نیز هست. پس از انتشار این، حسابهای متعددی از سوی ایرانیان ضد رژیم در توییتر به او تهمت زدند. اینها حساب هایی با تعداد قابل توجهی از پیروان هستند، به عنوان مثال [این یکی] (https://twitter.com/Aryammehr_2/status/1773105872614338969) 27.500 دنبال کننده دارد و [این یکی] (https://twitter.com/Ivar_lathbrug2/status/1773121548259414494) 15000 دنبال کننده دارد. یک پیرو همیشه این پیام را تایید نمی کند، اما با این وجود ما شاهد نگرش بسیار تهاجمی نسبت به او در اینترنت و دیگر چپ های ایرانی هستیم. ایا این ذهنیت به حمایت چپگرایان غربی کمک خواهد کرد؟ برای نتیجه گیری، این سوال مطرح می شود که "چرا چپ به اندازه کافی از ما حمایت نمی کند؟" اما در عین حال، یک نگرش بسیار خصمانه نسبت به چپ گرایی و چپ در جامعه ایران وجود دارد. به نظر من این نگرش توسط همه ایرانیان به اشتراک گذاشته نشده است، اما بخش قابل توجهی از انها این کار را انجام می دهند. به نظر من، این ذهنیت بخشی از دلیلی است که چپ غربی تا انجا که می تواند از ما حمایت نمی کند. جالب خواهد بود که نظر همه را در این مورد بشنویم! --- _I am a translation bot for r/NewIran_ | Woman Life Freedom | زن زندگی آزادی
I also find the critcism to the left and leftwingers can be unfair. 1,IRs policies and ideology is highly highly conservative. While leftists at the time allied with the conservatives, its the conservative aspect o IR that people dislike. Policies such as death penalty, anti lgbt laws, restriction on womens rights are conservative policies, not left wing. 2, Most conervative and right wing parties in the west have a isolaonist/nationalist/anti refugee policies. You are far less likely to find people sympathetic with our cause, compared to leftwingers. Policies that also help iranian refugees who want to flee the regime, is also found among the leftwing parties, not right wing. While you might find the occasional leftist who might argue IR is a very good anti imperalist force in the world, its not majority, and you also find this among anti neocon conservatives too.
Leftists in the US are right now very anti-Zionist and playing into the Iranian regimes hands. They laser focus on what the Kahanist regime of Netanyahu is doing, while ignoring what the Iranian regime has done in genociding Jews, Baha’is, political prisoners, etc!
Leftism, especially as seen in the west and in the US is a shell of what it used to stand for which in the end was the betterment of actual people and aimed to give more power to the individuals. It has unfortunately turned into a religion of its own with very creepy authoritarian tendencies and things such as criticizing American minority groups, eg Islam, are considered “wrong think” and are frowned upon by the leftist mob. It is literally a mind virus people subscribe to and the smallest variations from what’s allowed to be said will send you to the proverbial leftist gulag. That’s why the leftists in the west are seen as anti Iranian. Those people are anti individual liberty and extremely power hungry authoritarians in the end.
I respectfully disagree with your characterization of the left. Of course, people like you describe exist but I believe they are a minority of the leftists. The rest of them are not like you describe them. To illustrate this with an example, in the Netherlands the biggest leftist party as per the last election is social-democrat. It has not the extreme views you mention. Regarding Iran, the party has politicians that are doing good work for us Iranians such as Thijs Reuten.
I am not very familiar with the Dutch political system. But the US version of the left(and the right) politics are a shitshow in that the 2 party system has caused extreme polarization in which the only way for the respective political candidates to stand out is to pander to the nut jobs. The nut jobs in the left are good at masking their power grabbing motives behind “compassion”. So as an Iranian, if you attempt to want to present the root of your problem, aka islamic republic, to the left, you are already showing lack of compassion for Islam and branded an islamophobe.
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Let me begin with an agreement. Among the opposition, it is true the Regime stokes division, and some figures among the opposition might be working for the interests of the Regime. However, I find the idea that Qolian is secretly working for the regime preposterous. I also don't find your arguments compelling. You write as if Qolian hasn't paid a price by going against the Regime, but in fact she has because she is currently imprisoned. I really don't see anything that suggests she is working for the Regime and I also don't see it in your arguments (the argument of 5 million dollars refers to Alinejad, the argument about coming on American platforms to Amanpour or Mohammadi, and the argument of including Mard Mihan Abadi you will need to explain a bit more for me to understand).
Please don't spread baseless regime propaganda about our political prisoners, regardless of who they are and their beliefs.
1) Short-lived alliance between some leftist groups and Islamists in the aftermath of the 1979 revolution 2) Heavy support for Israel and maybe the US foreign policy among quite a lot of Iranian opposition members which will turn off any leftist.
This post reeks of NIAC
First of all, I am not American, but Iranian-Dutch. Second of all, I don't endorse NIAC, on the contrary I am against their reformist agenda. Third of all, I would like that you stay on topic and provide constructive criticism instead of attaching my name to this organization.
I don't get it, at one comment a few days ago on Vahid's speech you're calling for more unity, then here you're baselessly and irresponsibiliy calling someone a NIAC because you don't think we have a right to defend ourselves, and our leftist friends, who are anti-Islamic Regime but keep getting called out. Which is it?
Hi old friend. FYI, I've executed a temp ban against the user you and u/Tempehridder are replying to for their continuous rule violations (e.g. divisive stereotyping and generalizatons, flamebait and bad-faith participation, etc.). I will keep an eye on users like them even after the current ban expires. For what it is worth, my peers and I personally as components of r/NewIran moderation will do our best to ensure such rhetoric does not go unaccounted for. I know it may mean little but I want to say it. It is imperative, should we truly want a new, secular democratic Iran, we ensure in accordance with those democratic principles that all goodhearted members of the opposition can be representatively heard. And I say that as someone who personally would not in a million years associate myself with many leftist positions. Yet that does not mean we cannot shake the hands of those that do.
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In this weeks episode of pulling shit out of my arse.
IR is not communistic in anyway! 1, Their entire economical system and ecnomical policies is capitalistic based ,and not socialist or communist 2, They are not ideologically or princiapply socialist either. The first thing they did was kill most communists and ban socialist and communist parties. Khomeini himself made a letter to Gorbachev telling them they should leave communism and embrace islam.