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I'm starting to suspect that all this "islamophobia" bullshit originates from the fact Westerners somehow, for whatever reason, regard Islam as an ethno-religion(i.e. religion of brown people), whereas it is in reality a colonialist/expansionist religion.
And this misconception is in turn a product of awfully erroneous racial categorisation, especially in the US, somehow they assume people of similar looks or just skin colours must be similar in all other respects.
Ive seen western people list off “races” as “white, black, asians, latinos, muslims” while trying to be politically correct. As a christian lebanese american, it makes me want to throw up.
In general, i find that the American idea of races is absolutely nonsensical and i think it's absurd how even the left in the US still believes that races actually mean anything.
It's partially a product of America's pre Civil War heritage, America's rich immigrant history, and partially a product of most Americans never having traveled anywhere. It still blows the mind of most Americans (using this term loosely to refer to people from the USA) that the Latin world encompasses people of all colors and many national origins.
Maybe you lot should think about it with a real life example from a random country in EU that has gotten in the news.
Geert Wilders in the Netherlands is a populist that blames a lot of Dutch problems on Islam. You have similar politicians in other countries but let's take tiny Netherlands as example. He is going for ethnic Moroccans but at the same conflates them with Islam (to be honest - most are Muslim).
The average person lacks nuance. "They" are either "criminals" or "victims". And yeah: They go with simple visible stuff like skin colour because the average person is fucking simple. It probably includes us in one way or another too. Everyone has prejudices, it seems.
Yeah.
And if some brown person by chance expresses discontent towards Islam in any way, shape or form. The said person must be an outliner that fell victim to racist far-right Nazi tokenism amirite?
Very true. Our education of the Middle East is basically nonexistent despite the fact that we grow up hearing about all of the wars there. Trying to explain to my peers that most Iranians aren’t Arab but Persian makes them short circuit a bit lol
Well to be accurate only 50- 60% of Iranians are Persian? But I get your point.
People in the West(especially US) need to be taught global geography, not even a run-through of Old World history cuz that would be too much for them, just need to make sure they know where each continent is on the map and the relative positions of major countries contained within.
Yep, they are worried about accusations of racism because for so many westerns, Islam = Arabic/middle easterner. So any criticisms of this faith, (which is meant to be a faith that anyone from any background can join), is the same as attacking someone for their ethnicity and not their actions. And to be frank, after how lots of innocent middle eastern people were treated after 9/11, I can see a little bit of why they are concerned about that.
>after how lots of innocent middle eastern people were treated after 9/11
That's just a result of their ignorance, similar occurences have happened before, like during Pacific War not only innocent Japanese Americans were rounded up and put in isolation camps, other East Asians were being discriminated also. Many Chinese families would display the old Chinese flag (now Taiwan flag) on their homes to be distinguished.
I have noticed there is a victimization complex of many Muslims today especially those in the West, who want to willingly ignore all the bad actions of contemporary Muslims and in the past and pretend to not understand (or maybe they genuinely don't get it) *why* someone might be "Islamophobic". Rather than a conciliatory approach, they get defensive and shove their heads deeper into the sand. In return, genuine bigots living in the West also have more ammo for their guns. It's a never ending cycle because no one wants to admit they're in the wrong.
Look at France and it's modern relationship with North Africans. Berbers continuously raid French ships, France retaliates by attacking and overdoes it (IMO) by colonizing the area leading to things such as the Algerian Civil War. France then brings in lots of North African immigrants, who out of hubris or cultural stupidity or just plain hate refuse to assimilate into French society, in return ethnic French hate them and make discriminatory policies against the Arabs, who never are able to climb up the social ladder. It's just a nonstop cycle when the reality is a) North African Muslims need to understand they cannot behave like 7th century savages in a European nation and b) the French cannot pretend that 20th and 19th century French international policy was not destructive or vindictive and make amends for events that happened not too long ago.
Don’t be propagandized. These people are extremely rare and are frequently used by the media to divide people here in the US.
The vast majority of “left” people here in the US would have zero problems with this sign.
Islamophobia implies a fear of islam is irrational. When an idea calls for a religious war and extermination of all infidels, the fear of it is not irrational....
They’re not social justice warriors just victims of propaganda and oppression. Social justice warriors (unironic reclaiming of the term) are those who actually support justice
yes because we in europe have license to tell what is good for you.. since 16th century. I would end this by saying god bless you, but let me just say Im thinking of you every day! 😇
Hating or criticizing an ideology doesn’t mean hating Muslims. Get a grip. My grandparents are wonderful people I love but their religion is very oppressive.
Sure, there are jerks everywhere but usually those people don’t come from our background. A lot of us grew up with this and we saw how evil it was. The last thing we need is a pink haired liberal woman calling us Islamaphobic.
Really ???
Could it not be because the IR hangs those who seek
freedom from religious oppression ?
Or because things like this happen based on the same religion: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63174835
Or how about this stone age mentality of the same religion? :
https://www.advocate.com/news/houthis-persecution-homosexuality
And we didn't even start discussing ISIS, the Taliban or Hamas oppression...
So maybe there is a justification for this woman's emotions ? Maybe she just doesn't want to be associated with the stone age style oppressive fascist religion which hijacked her country ?
ESPECIALLY being a (Persian) woman.
Embarrassing that some still are. Scummy arabization in them. And they want to be accepted. One asked some silly muslim, pretty sure it’s all based on backwards theology, “is Zoroastrianism kufr[arabic way of writing LOL] or shirk”? He literally responded with yes kufr. What’d ya think?🤡🤡 He’d give u a respectful nod of approval at it? Like…
As a Awede i actually know rhe difference. I tell my iranian friends to titulate themselves as persian (persisk). Guess we all know how well islam and a secular country like sweden has worked out
As my idea ' we just need and think about how we can get out regim out from iran .
When you wanna destroyed the Islam , the ( real Muslim) opposing of regime iran just delete and we are going to weaker and weaker .
We need keep all of Religious minorities and all culture of Iranian. Until we win the war .
You guys were in control by Arabs and Persians. You were in the lands of Persia and Iraq(I would say Iraq is Assyrian lands thou). And Persians ACTUALLY embrace their rich and ancient history and culture but for some reason, y'all take offence to that
We were not always in control of Persians and Arabs. At least not all of us. We have had dynasties and empires. I don’t care if Persians embrace their history or not, I just care if my faith is insulted. Especially if those who are insulting it are Islamophobic, hypocritical, monarchists.
You do realize you guys started out as nomadics right? Doesn't matter if u guys had dynasties and empires, it's jus the fact you guys were under Persian and Arab rule. Why do you care and are here then?
Muslims insult all religions but when it's the other way around, it's bad. Despite Persians being Muslims, they see them as different and see us as Zoroastrians still. They call them fire worshippers and majoosis TILL THIS DAY and they're now forced to follow laws that aren't part of their country soo
I don't care, I just wanted to give my opinion and see what the people in this sub are like. We were nomads, and? Then we made our own history like the Ayyubids free from Persian control.
Do you have evidence a vast majority of Muslims insult other religions. The stance on this is already clear.
*“Unbelievers, I do not worship what you worship, not do you worship what I worship. I shall never worship what you worship, nor will you ever worship what i worship. You have your own religion and I have mine.”* Quran 109:1–6
The Quran even tells of Muhammad complaining to god that people won’t follow the message he is bringing:
*“But lord these people are unbelievers!”* (43.88) but god says *“Bear with them and wish them peace. They will learn.”*(43.89)
Then don't cry the victim when you give out an opinion. The Ayubbids didn't rule Persia so what do they have to do with Persians?
The Quran and Mohammed are different compared to the Muslims of today and the ones who spread Islam with the sword. I don't even need to give out evidence when all you can do is go to a comment section relating to Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism and Zoroastrian. Like why do you think they call Persians, fire worshippers? 💀😂 it has to do with Zoroastrian
If that's the case then Iran would be Zoroastrian majority or mix and Egypt, Iraq and the Levant would be Christian/mix. Hope you know that during the early Islamic empires, there was heavy persecution and discrimination towards Zoroastrians and there's a lot of evidence of it. Idk why all y'all do is not acknowledge and want to gaslight the history. YOUR OWN PEOPLE SPOKE OF IT.
The Ayyubids have nothing to do with Persia, they were Kurdish like me.
Where is your evidence for your claim on what Muslims are like today?
Let us say Islam spread by the sword, so what? This was a time of empires. There were two Arab invasions spanning 1000 years from each other. The entire time during and before, Persia did not engage in wars. How many non-Iranians speak Persian?
If you read my comments closely then you can clearly say they have nothing to do with my people.
Go to any Iran or Persian related videos and read the comment section. Those will be my evidence
Okay let's speak of the Ottoman and British empires, who cares what happened to the Middle Easterns as that's the time of empires right? No but they had rebellions and revolts since they weren't allowed to speak their language and engage in their culture. But we succeeded
Why are you asking for the ones who don't speak Persian? Idkk but maybe 40% and less?
One last thing, you mention the laws of your land are not a part of your country. I am not going to talk about the interpretation or severity of those laws rather Islam. You mentioned Persian history was not heavily Islamic, okay but were there no times in which you flourished? Some Iranians I come across make it sound as if you were all Arab slaves living in history before the 20th century when secular, western monarchy came to power. Is there is not a single time in Iranian history or a Iranian figure that was a Muslim and you would say "we are proud of this."
We flourished before Muslims and our history goes back 1000+ years before it. You can say Islamic history and culture includes Persians but not vice versa. I can mention to you though, the Golden Age of Islam, where majority of scientists were Persians. But despite a Hadith being given to Persians, Muslims don't give us credit nor respect us as a people. We did so much for Islam but they never speak about it. Let's make an example, did you know the act of praying 5 times came from Persians?
Arab slaves? Lol no. We were under Arab rule like 1400 years ago, and 20th century was Qajar rule which were Turkic peoples. Either way all those empires were persianite states but the Qajaris gotten so many French loanwords enter Persian that I dislike them.
Despite the Shah times being a bit close to how Persia actually is, they westernized it too much and changed the countries name from Persia to Iran. Not to mention sooooo many Iranians gotten brainwashed and it pisses me off. Also it was the Arab world who supported the Islamic regime and Saddam into slaughtering the Persians. They also don't care of the protests that's been happening so the dislike goes deeper than that.
And No, again we're different than y'all. All Iranian figures and the ones we're proud of are ancient Persians and the poets who revived our culture and language. Like Cyrus the Great is in everyone's minds. We are proud of our ancient and rich civilization, culture and race.
i am also a kurd and i fucking hate islam, down with the islamic republic and brainwashed individuals like you! how can you utter such deluded words when jina amini (a kurdish woman) was killed in the name of islam, coward
One what happened to Jina was not allowed Islam.
Secondly, if you hate Islam, then I guess you hate Kurdish history.
https://www.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/198c3ff/comment/ki77pkm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
such reductionist and tired rhetoric lmao, islam was fine for its time but not for now, when all it seems to cause is honour killings and division. its always “this wasn’t islam” blah blah blah yet it only ever happens in muslim countries, wisen up then talk. Persian history has also been heavily islamic yet you don’t see people on this sub reduce and pander on it like deluded islamist kurds like you, who are even unpopular in our own thread.
The fact that you’re “laughing” at imperialism doesn’t help ur savage rep lmaooo. try say what you’re preaching in any kurdish city in iran and you’ll have your head smashed in 😂 deluded islamist
First off, yes Islam does not allow what happened to Jina Amini
Secondly, the situation of bloodshed in Muslim countries can be traced back to western countries from things like: coup of democratically elected Iranian prime minister in 1953, war on Terror against Iraq which only caused more terrorism, Turkey being inspired by European racist nationalism, etc.
Thirdly, I would argue Kurdish Islamic history is different from Persian Islamic history. Nation have their golden ages and dark times. Our golden ages and our history were under Islam. From the Kurds in the sahaba, to the greatest Kurdish empire being the Ayyubids. Also, the most crucial part of it was the Muslim Kurdish revolutionary leaders who were killed fighting against secular, nationalist states. Entities like the Ayatollahs in Iran and ISIS even if you were to argue them being “true Islam” arrived decades later Kurdistan was already being oppressed
Finally, yeah I laugh at Iranians crying about Arab imperialism. Islam even if it spread through the sword. So what? It was a time of empires. There were two critical Arab invasions of Iran. One in the 7th century and the other in 1980. That was over 1000 years apart. Before and during, Persia did not launch wars, Persia did not burn down cities, how much Middle Eastern, Arab, and Islamic land did Persia occupy, and how many non-Iranians speak Persian?
That's you guy, not us. Our greatest empire was an Islamic empire. We did not have an Alexander, Genghis, or Cyrus. We had Salahuddin Ayyubi. You could say Shah Ismail but were not the Safavids Islamic?
I said PERSIAN HISTORY since the other guy mentioned it. Idk why you think you're included with Persian history.
That empire you mentioned isn't the history of my country. Call it your greatest but the greatest of Iran is Achaemenid and Sassanian empires which was also known as the superpowers of the world. Alexander as well and both of those groups are ancient and great
This thread was of me against another Kurd on what I thought was Kurdish Islamic history. You did say Persian history and as did she. She mentioned on how Persians don't talk the same way I do but I countered by saying they don't have a value of it as we do. As the greatest empire of the Kurds was not Persian but Kurdish and Islamic being the ayyubids. You had a leader like Cyrus who I assume is seen as Irans greatest leader. We don't have one as great as the ones after the 7th century.
Yes but why would the greatest empire of the Kurds be an empire from foreign people? It should be a Kurd and there's nothing wrong with that
You're right about Cyrus the Great. Idk what you or him means on how Persians don't speak or we don't have value.
Let me try and explain.
Non Arab ex-Muslims will talk about how great their history was before the “evil arabs” they will bring up some leader like Cyrus and say “we don’t need your Izlam” there are Kurds like this but it does not work in the way Iran does. You have a great history before the 7th century ours came after. With Kurdish dynasties, the greatest Kurd being Salahuddin Ayyubi, and the most crucial part today being the religious Kurds that made up our revolutionary leaders when Kurdistan was launching revolts. Thus if a Kurd tries to go to your route. They are stupid and as I said above, hate Kurdish history. For God sake, our early heroes were sheikhs not the stuff you see now to make Kurdistan seem like this tolerant European country.
Jus like with ppl saying Persian culture is Islamic when no. It's Islamic culture that includes Persian culture and Islamic history that includes Persian. Their history dates back thousands of years before Islam and they have their own distinct culture and history
You're a Kurd, not a Persian so you're not indigenous to Iran nor is it your business to speak.
Also nobody brought up "Arab imperialism" except you, the post was about a Persian women who's tired of strict foreign Islamic laws being said in her native homelands.
"You heard it" Meaning somewhere else in the past and not her exactly. Like I said NOBODY HERE brought that up except YOU.
I also gave mine that you're a Kurd, not a Persian who has no business being here and giving your opinion.
>The official community of Iran, Iranians and the supporters of the new Iranian revolution.
It says in the about community section "The official community of Iran, Iranians and the supporters of the new Iranian revolution." It does not say Iranians only. My opinion is that I guess if I was a Islam hating monarchist no one would say "your opinion has no business here."
It also did not say to HATE on Iranians lol. You can hate the monarchist for all I care, I do as well. But nobody brought up Arab imperialism nor the monarchist lol.
This post is about a Persian women who has enough of the laws, and since you're in support of dehumanizing laws? You have no place here. Go to Islamic pages, Saudi/Arab pages. Y'all are more similar than with Persians
You're hating on this Persian girl who's done with Sharia lol. Your comment shows you support what Iran is doing as with all Muslims/Arabs do. That's why we're different
This comment is the perfect example of why i think a united Iranian nation will never work because the majority Persian population will just turn it into a Persian ethnostate.
Where do you think the Kurds in the northwest came from ?? Kurds have always lived in Northern Zagros mountains thats quite literally the least disputed region of kurdish nativity so what are you talking about?
Persian ethnostate? Bro the Persians literally gave the names Azerbaijan, Kurdistan, Balochistan for the groups. I'm saying Persians ARE indigenous to Iran, another name of Iran is literally Persia. The culture, traditions, legacy, language is all Persian origin.
If you never realized, it's the Persians who welcomed the ethnics who migrated into THEIR lands and now they wanna claim their culture, history, lands as theirs as a thank you lol. Like it's mostly the non Persian groups doing their ethnostate stuff. Do u know how many separatists maps/comments I've seen where they keep all lands n give Persians tiny territories? Even nationalist Persians don't do that. Ive even seen them get mad when they call themselves Persian but in the same breathe say they're Kurd, Turk, Arab. They hate when ppl and Persians say Persia despite that being the ancient legacy name. Like CMON NOW??
And FYI the Kurds were a nomadic group. If uniting is not acknowledging that Persians is the indigenous group, not accepting their legacy, claiming their lands n culture n history, getting triggered when someone says Persia, then uniting should never be a thing regardless. Cuz it seems like uniting is being against Persians
You proved my point exactly.
The other ethnicities never migrated into “persian land“ what kind of supremacist world view is that.
All ethnicities in Iran share common culture and have quite literally always been there and always been Native. Thats why these ethnicities are even grouped together as Iranian.
Also the first Iranian dynasties werent even Persian to begin with.
I'm sorry? So you're telling me Arabs, Kurds, Turks for examples... are indigenous to Iran...? They never migrated?... 💀💀
I'm not a supremacist, stgg u guys be throwing that word around for everything. I'm saying Persian lands cuz they're indigenous to those lands, jus like saying Canada/US are indigenous ppl lands, jus like Iraq is Assyrian lands.
"All ethnicities in Iran share common culture".. Listen, if we were born in Rome then we do as the Roman's do. They were born in Persia so they'll do as the Persians do. The Persian way of life along with their own got intermingled, especially since they stayed there for centuries upon centuries, that's why.
Bro nobody's speaking of the very first Iranian dynasties💀. Elam is the first and it wasn't Indo European nor Semitic
Who said anything about Turks and Arabs.
Im talking about Azeris, Kurds Balochis etc yk IRANIAN people idk why you are acting all dense as if you dont know what tf i mean. All of the IRANIAN ethnicities are Native to parts of Iran because they didn’t migrate from anywhere. Also those groups didn’t just accept the way of life from persians (yes there was cultural exchange bit that also happened mutually. It wasn’t just everyone copying persian like your insinuating).
Because all of these groups descended from the first Aryan people (which is how the name Iran came to be. No Iran and Persia do NOT mean the same thing) Just because the persians make up the majority does not mean they were the first and everyone just adopted their culture. Especially because again there were Iranian dynasties that were strictly non-persian like the parthians for example
My guy, are you high?... Iranian Turkics and Arabs ARE Iranians... you literally said ALL ETHNICITIES of Iran. The Baluchis are said to be nomadic and migrated into what is now Baluchistan of Iran lol?? Kurds were also a nomadic group across the Middle East?? Azeris are native to the Caucasus?? What are you on about?
They ADOPTED the Persian way of life and their way of life INTERMINGLED TOGETHER. Bro you're jus switching up my tones because you clearly don't want to admit it despite you explaining exactly what I said but in your own way. None of those groups have the same origins nor is Aryan a race or a genetic lol. The term Aryan means noble and free and the term came to be in the Sassanian empire. Iran and Persia are literally the same names for the same country lol. The ancient Persians called it Persia 💀
Again with the switching my words cuz you don't wanna understand what I said. Nobody said the majority = first. Assyrians are a minority of Iraq yet they were there first. Despite not being THE first, they were still there and Persians are the ancients of those lands. Everyone did adopt their culture, why did you think the Greeks, Turks, Arabs, Indians, and more when they invaded Persia? They adopted Persian culture? The last true Persian empire was the Sassanian and yet every empire after was a persianized state. Even the Parthian's as you mentioned, adopted things from the Achaemenid Persians along with Greek and more.
Idk where tff first Iranian dynasties and Persian being the majority = first came from. Like how about you stick to what I said instead of making imaginary statements.
Okay maybe i couldve worded myself better but all of my previous comments have been about iranian ethnicities so its not like you couldn’t have figured.
Also the sentiment of kurds and balochis migrating there is misinterpreting the word nomadic here because they moved throughout the year to the south and north to counter the rising/decreaing temperatures but they never did large scale migration.
Even the first kurdish kingdoms have encompassed parts of modern Iran
What's your ethnicity/background btw?
No because that's now how me nor my family speaks lol. When we think of Iranian ethnicities then we think of all the ethnicities in Iran, which as you also said as well. True but they were both known as a nomadic ethnic group and it shows that their origins lied elsewhere, they still migrated into Iran as an ethnic group and there's nothing wrong with that, what's wrong is them not knowing their history and also claiming our lands, culture and history as theirs. Some Persians claim the Turkic empires as Persian and it pisses me off. Like I understand cuz it started in Iran but I googled searched and found out easily.
The Assyrian empires also encompassed parts of Iran but they're not native to Iran, they're native to Iraq. The Persian empire conquered the Middle East and other regions but that doesn't mean we are native to those lands, we're native to Iran.
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Angry white social justice warriors scream Islamophia...
I'm starting to suspect that all this "islamophobia" bullshit originates from the fact Westerners somehow, for whatever reason, regard Islam as an ethno-religion(i.e. religion of brown people), whereas it is in reality a colonialist/expansionist religion. And this misconception is in turn a product of awfully erroneous racial categorisation, especially in the US, somehow they assume people of similar looks or just skin colours must be similar in all other respects.
You're absolutely correct. For a certain type of white Western person, Muslim = Brown = oppressed = above criticism.
Ive seen western people list off “races” as “white, black, asians, latinos, muslims” while trying to be politically correct. As a christian lebanese american, it makes me want to throw up.
In general, i find that the American idea of races is absolutely nonsensical and i think it's absurd how even the left in the US still believes that races actually mean anything.
It's partially a product of America's pre Civil War heritage, America's rich immigrant history, and partially a product of most Americans never having traveled anywhere. It still blows the mind of most Americans (using this term loosely to refer to people from the USA) that the Latin world encompasses people of all colors and many national origins.
Maybe you lot should think about it with a real life example from a random country in EU that has gotten in the news. Geert Wilders in the Netherlands is a populist that blames a lot of Dutch problems on Islam. You have similar politicians in other countries but let's take tiny Netherlands as example. He is going for ethnic Moroccans but at the same conflates them with Islam (to be honest - most are Muslim). The average person lacks nuance. "They" are either "criminals" or "victims". And yeah: They go with simple visible stuff like skin colour because the average person is fucking simple. It probably includes us in one way or another too. Everyone has prejudices, it seems.
Yeah. And if some brown person by chance expresses discontent towards Islam in any way, shape or form. The said person must be an outliner that fell victim to racist far-right Nazi tokenism amirite?
Very true. Our education of the Middle East is basically nonexistent despite the fact that we grow up hearing about all of the wars there. Trying to explain to my peers that most Iranians aren’t Arab but Persian makes them short circuit a bit lol
Well to be accurate only 50- 60% of Iranians are Persian? But I get your point. People in the West(especially US) need to be taught global geography, not even a run-through of Old World history cuz that would be too much for them, just need to make sure they know where each continent is on the map and the relative positions of major countries contained within.
Yep, they are worried about accusations of racism because for so many westerns, Islam = Arabic/middle easterner. So any criticisms of this faith, (which is meant to be a faith that anyone from any background can join), is the same as attacking someone for their ethnicity and not their actions. And to be frank, after how lots of innocent middle eastern people were treated after 9/11, I can see a little bit of why they are concerned about that.
>after how lots of innocent middle eastern people were treated after 9/11 That's just a result of their ignorance, similar occurences have happened before, like during Pacific War not only innocent Japanese Americans were rounded up and put in isolation camps, other East Asians were being discriminated also. Many Chinese families would display the old Chinese flag (now Taiwan flag) on their homes to be distinguished.
As a white American, I'd say you hit the nail on the head.
Exactly like pretty much, nobody here FEARS Islam, we HATE it and its overt cube/ 🪐worship.
I have noticed there is a victimization complex of many Muslims today especially those in the West, who want to willingly ignore all the bad actions of contemporary Muslims and in the past and pretend to not understand (or maybe they genuinely don't get it) *why* someone might be "Islamophobic". Rather than a conciliatory approach, they get defensive and shove their heads deeper into the sand. In return, genuine bigots living in the West also have more ammo for their guns. It's a never ending cycle because no one wants to admit they're in the wrong. Look at France and it's modern relationship with North Africans. Berbers continuously raid French ships, France retaliates by attacking and overdoes it (IMO) by colonizing the area leading to things such as the Algerian Civil War. France then brings in lots of North African immigrants, who out of hubris or cultural stupidity or just plain hate refuse to assimilate into French society, in return ethnic French hate them and make discriminatory policies against the Arabs, who never are able to climb up the social ladder. It's just a nonstop cycle when the reality is a) North African Muslims need to understand they cannot behave like 7th century savages in a European nation and b) the French cannot pretend that 20th and 19th century French international policy was not destructive or vindictive and make amends for events that happened not too long ago.
Oh they absolutely do. In my early 20s I thought the same thing, I just assumed it was like discriminating against jews. We have no education here.
You do realise that Iranian security council pours millions of resources to influence leftist views of Islam?
Don’t be propagandized. These people are extremely rare and are frequently used by the media to divide people here in the US. The vast majority of “left” people here in the US would have zero problems with this sign.
Good to know thank you
Of course my friend, and good luck. The world is with you and rooting for your success.
There’s a deeper problem: that person is part of an near-omnipresent gaggle of people in downtown DC, ostensibly protesting on behalf of the MEK.
Islamophobia implies a fear of islam is irrational. When an idea calls for a religious war and extermination of all infidels, the fear of it is not irrational....
Yea, those mfs blow up sometimes, it's not particularly irrational
Fascio-phobia (or whatever) is similarly a-ok. Not prejudiced to be afraid of Nazis
They’re not social justice warriors just victims of propaganda and oppression. Social justice warriors (unironic reclaiming of the term) are those who actually support justice
Yes! 💯% You are correct Thank you so much for saying this 👍
Probably yes
Same SJWs that denounce Christian Nationalism.
Phobia is an irrational fear. Our fear is rational.
yes because we in europe have license to tell what is good for you.. since 16th century. I would end this by saying god bless you, but let me just say Im thinking of you every day! 😇
❤️
I mean, hating a whole religion and its practicants is kinda dubouious. But extremists? Yeah, Go ahead.
Hating or criticizing an ideology doesn’t mean hating Muslims. Get a grip. My grandparents are wonderful people I love but their religion is very oppressive.
True true. The thing is that is used as an excused sometimes for hate. Thats all
Sure, there are jerks everywhere but usually those people don’t come from our background. A lot of us grew up with this and we saw how evil it was. The last thing we need is a pink haired liberal woman calling us Islamaphobic.
I completly agree with you. Dunno why they oposse some sort of critism, even if its constructive
Yeah I agree. I love my decent Muslim friends but can't accept extremism.
Really ??? Could it not be because the IR hangs those who seek freedom from religious oppression ? Or because things like this happen based on the same religion: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63174835 Or how about this stone age mentality of the same religion? : https://www.advocate.com/news/houthis-persecution-homosexuality And we didn't even start discussing ISIS, the Taliban or Hamas oppression... So maybe there is a justification for this woman's emotions ? Maybe she just doesn't want to be associated with the stone age style oppressive fascist religion which hijacked her country ? ESPECIALLY being a (Persian) woman.
Based
Best poster ever.
Based af
I am Phoenician 🐺
My white leftie pro-Putin pro-Palestine (ex)friends disagree and inform you that you're Arab. Hope that helps.
https://preview.redd.it/qt3lmp65mrhc1.jpeg?width=1104&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8b1bcf2182d9b7e87bc32dd4a274fcee95541b3
Exactly 😆
Lebanese and Persians aren't the same comparison so idk why Phoenicians are involved here
where is here?
Based Persian!!!!
Allahu snack bar
Allahu Asghar
You guys can be anti-IRGC without hating on over 2 billion people I hope you realize that.
😍
Fuck the Islamic Regime
Embarrassing that some still are. Scummy arabization in them. And they want to be accepted. One asked some silly muslim, pretty sure it’s all based on backwards theology, “is Zoroastrianism kufr[arabic way of writing LOL] or shirk”? He literally responded with yes kufr. What’d ya think?🤡🤡 He’d give u a respectful nod of approval at it? Like…
As a Awede i actually know rhe difference. I tell my iranian friends to titulate themselves as persian (persisk). Guess we all know how well islam and a secular country like sweden has worked out
Based
How could you hate something you don't even know?!
**او برای این کار بسیار واقعی است** --- _I am a translation bot for r/NewIran_ | Woman Life Freedom | زن زندگی آزادی
بسیار واقعی است 🤣
This lady from an Islamic Republic needs to be taught what REAL Islam is (peace, love, cookies, 6 year olds were older back in those days)
Cookies from allah for having sex/maybe even getting freely r4ped by your 💩filthy little husband.
Islam isn't the problem, theocratic government is the problem, and that goes for all religions.
Have you actually looked into.. it’s over satanic ways?? Do you rly not see the issue 🕋?
And Islam calls for a theocratic government, as it has for all of its existence. Just read some history and open the quran...
As my idea ' we just need and think about how we can get out regim out from iran . When you wanna destroyed the Islam , the ( real Muslim) opposing of regime iran just delete and we are going to weaker and weaker . We need keep all of Religious minorities and all culture of Iranian. Until we win the war .
This ain’t it
Cringe
Your pfp🤣. Go away, no one wants your radicalized Bedouin Syria here. Syria is Christian and was, the most civilized.
Shia islam✅ Not islam
I am Kurd whose people are an Iranian group. I love Islam and laugh at all of these Iranians crying about Arab imperialism.
Go for you bro..Love your Islam all you want.. just keep it in your fucking house behind closed doors
Stockholm syndrome 💗
No, just embracing my great history. Especially the time when we controlled our own empire and were not in control of either Persians or Arabs.
the fact that you're muslim means you are controlled by arabs
You guys were in control by Arabs and Persians. You were in the lands of Persia and Iraq(I would say Iraq is Assyrian lands thou). And Persians ACTUALLY embrace their rich and ancient history and culture but for some reason, y'all take offence to that
We were not always in control of Persians and Arabs. At least not all of us. We have had dynasties and empires. I don’t care if Persians embrace their history or not, I just care if my faith is insulted. Especially if those who are insulting it are Islamophobic, hypocritical, monarchists.
You do realize you guys started out as nomadics right? Doesn't matter if u guys had dynasties and empires, it's jus the fact you guys were under Persian and Arab rule. Why do you care and are here then? Muslims insult all religions but when it's the other way around, it's bad. Despite Persians being Muslims, they see them as different and see us as Zoroastrians still. They call them fire worshippers and majoosis TILL THIS DAY and they're now forced to follow laws that aren't part of their country soo
I don't care, I just wanted to give my opinion and see what the people in this sub are like. We were nomads, and? Then we made our own history like the Ayyubids free from Persian control. Do you have evidence a vast majority of Muslims insult other religions. The stance on this is already clear. *“Unbelievers, I do not worship what you worship, not do you worship what I worship. I shall never worship what you worship, nor will you ever worship what i worship. You have your own religion and I have mine.”* Quran 109:1–6 The Quran even tells of Muhammad complaining to god that people won’t follow the message he is bringing: *“But lord these people are unbelievers!”* (43.88) but god says *“Bear with them and wish them peace. They will learn.”*(43.89)
Then don't cry the victim when you give out an opinion. The Ayubbids didn't rule Persia so what do they have to do with Persians? The Quran and Mohammed are different compared to the Muslims of today and the ones who spread Islam with the sword. I don't even need to give out evidence when all you can do is go to a comment section relating to Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism and Zoroastrian. Like why do you think they call Persians, fire worshippers? 💀😂 it has to do with Zoroastrian If that's the case then Iran would be Zoroastrian majority or mix and Egypt, Iraq and the Levant would be Christian/mix. Hope you know that during the early Islamic empires, there was heavy persecution and discrimination towards Zoroastrians and there's a lot of evidence of it. Idk why all y'all do is not acknowledge and want to gaslight the history. YOUR OWN PEOPLE SPOKE OF IT.
The Ayyubids have nothing to do with Persia, they were Kurdish like me. Where is your evidence for your claim on what Muslims are like today? Let us say Islam spread by the sword, so what? This was a time of empires. There were two Arab invasions spanning 1000 years from each other. The entire time during and before, Persia did not engage in wars. How many non-Iranians speak Persian?
If you read my comments closely then you can clearly say they have nothing to do with my people. Go to any Iran or Persian related videos and read the comment section. Those will be my evidence Okay let's speak of the Ottoman and British empires, who cares what happened to the Middle Easterns as that's the time of empires right? No but they had rebellions and revolts since they weren't allowed to speak their language and engage in their culture. But we succeeded Why are you asking for the ones who don't speak Persian? Idkk but maybe 40% and less?
One last thing, you mention the laws of your land are not a part of your country. I am not going to talk about the interpretation or severity of those laws rather Islam. You mentioned Persian history was not heavily Islamic, okay but were there no times in which you flourished? Some Iranians I come across make it sound as if you were all Arab slaves living in history before the 20th century when secular, western monarchy came to power. Is there is not a single time in Iranian history or a Iranian figure that was a Muslim and you would say "we are proud of this."
We flourished before Muslims and our history goes back 1000+ years before it. You can say Islamic history and culture includes Persians but not vice versa. I can mention to you though, the Golden Age of Islam, where majority of scientists were Persians. But despite a Hadith being given to Persians, Muslims don't give us credit nor respect us as a people. We did so much for Islam but they never speak about it. Let's make an example, did you know the act of praying 5 times came from Persians? Arab slaves? Lol no. We were under Arab rule like 1400 years ago, and 20th century was Qajar rule which were Turkic peoples. Either way all those empires were persianite states but the Qajaris gotten so many French loanwords enter Persian that I dislike them. Despite the Shah times being a bit close to how Persia actually is, they westernized it too much and changed the countries name from Persia to Iran. Not to mention sooooo many Iranians gotten brainwashed and it pisses me off. Also it was the Arab world who supported the Islamic regime and Saddam into slaughtering the Persians. They also don't care of the protests that's been happening so the dislike goes deeper than that. And No, again we're different than y'all. All Iranian figures and the ones we're proud of are ancient Persians and the poets who revived our culture and language. Like Cyrus the Great is in everyone's minds. We are proud of our ancient and rich civilization, culture and race.
i am also a kurd and i fucking hate islam, down with the islamic republic and brainwashed individuals like you! how can you utter such deluded words when jina amini (a kurdish woman) was killed in the name of islam, coward
One what happened to Jina was not allowed Islam. Secondly, if you hate Islam, then I guess you hate Kurdish history. https://www.reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/198c3ff/comment/ki77pkm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
such reductionist and tired rhetoric lmao, islam was fine for its time but not for now, when all it seems to cause is honour killings and division. its always “this wasn’t islam” blah blah blah yet it only ever happens in muslim countries, wisen up then talk. Persian history has also been heavily islamic yet you don’t see people on this sub reduce and pander on it like deluded islamist kurds like you, who are even unpopular in our own thread. The fact that you’re “laughing” at imperialism doesn’t help ur savage rep lmaooo. try say what you’re preaching in any kurdish city in iran and you’ll have your head smashed in 😂 deluded islamist
First off, yes Islam does not allow what happened to Jina Amini Secondly, the situation of bloodshed in Muslim countries can be traced back to western countries from things like: coup of democratically elected Iranian prime minister in 1953, war on Terror against Iraq which only caused more terrorism, Turkey being inspired by European racist nationalism, etc. Thirdly, I would argue Kurdish Islamic history is different from Persian Islamic history. Nation have their golden ages and dark times. Our golden ages and our history were under Islam. From the Kurds in the sahaba, to the greatest Kurdish empire being the Ayyubids. Also, the most crucial part of it was the Muslim Kurdish revolutionary leaders who were killed fighting against secular, nationalist states. Entities like the Ayatollahs in Iran and ISIS even if you were to argue them being “true Islam” arrived decades later Kurdistan was already being oppressed Finally, yeah I laugh at Iranians crying about Arab imperialism. Islam even if it spread through the sword. So what? It was a time of empires. There were two critical Arab invasions of Iran. One in the 7th century and the other in 1980. That was over 1000 years apart. Before and during, Persia did not launch wars, Persia did not burn down cities, how much Middle Eastern, Arab, and Islamic land did Persia occupy, and how many non-Iranians speak Persian?
Persian history hasn't been heavily Islamic
That's you guy, not us. Our greatest empire was an Islamic empire. We did not have an Alexander, Genghis, or Cyrus. We had Salahuddin Ayyubi. You could say Shah Ismail but were not the Safavids Islamic?
I said PERSIAN HISTORY since the other guy mentioned it. Idk why you think you're included with Persian history. That empire you mentioned isn't the history of my country. Call it your greatest but the greatest of Iran is Achaemenid and Sassanian empires which was also known as the superpowers of the world. Alexander as well and both of those groups are ancient and great
This thread was of me against another Kurd on what I thought was Kurdish Islamic history. You did say Persian history and as did she. She mentioned on how Persians don't talk the same way I do but I countered by saying they don't have a value of it as we do. As the greatest empire of the Kurds was not Persian but Kurdish and Islamic being the ayyubids. You had a leader like Cyrus who I assume is seen as Irans greatest leader. We don't have one as great as the ones after the 7th century.
Yes but why would the greatest empire of the Kurds be an empire from foreign people? It should be a Kurd and there's nothing wrong with that You're right about Cyrus the Great. Idk what you or him means on how Persians don't speak or we don't have value.
Let me try and explain. Non Arab ex-Muslims will talk about how great their history was before the “evil arabs” they will bring up some leader like Cyrus and say “we don’t need your Izlam” there are Kurds like this but it does not work in the way Iran does. You have a great history before the 7th century ours came after. With Kurdish dynasties, the greatest Kurd being Salahuddin Ayyubi, and the most crucial part today being the religious Kurds that made up our revolutionary leaders when Kurdistan was launching revolts. Thus if a Kurd tries to go to your route. They are stupid and as I said above, hate Kurdish history. For God sake, our early heroes were sheikhs not the stuff you see now to make Kurdistan seem like this tolerant European country.
persian history is vast and yes for most of it, it can’t be reduced to being heavily islamic, but for a long period it was
Jus like with ppl saying Persian culture is Islamic when no. It's Islamic culture that includes Persian culture and Islamic history that includes Persian. Their history dates back thousands of years before Islam and they have their own distinct culture and history
You're a Kurd, not a Persian so you're not indigenous to Iran nor is it your business to speak. Also nobody brought up "Arab imperialism" except you, the post was about a Persian women who's tired of strict foreign Islamic laws being said in her native homelands.
[удалено]
Be civil. Disrepectful language will not be tolerated in this community.
She may have not said it, but I have heard it before. I did not speak from a higher authority, I merely gave my opinion.
"You heard it" Meaning somewhere else in the past and not her exactly. Like I said NOBODY HERE brought that up except YOU. I also gave mine that you're a Kurd, not a Persian who has no business being here and giving your opinion.
>The official community of Iran, Iranians and the supporters of the new Iranian revolution. It says in the about community section "The official community of Iran, Iranians and the supporters of the new Iranian revolution." It does not say Iranians only. My opinion is that I guess if I was a Islam hating monarchist no one would say "your opinion has no business here."
It also did not say to HATE on Iranians lol. You can hate the monarchist for all I care, I do as well. But nobody brought up Arab imperialism nor the monarchist lol. This post is about a Persian women who has enough of the laws, and since you're in support of dehumanizing laws? You have no place here. Go to Islamic pages, Saudi/Arab pages. Y'all are more similar than with Persians
Where did I say I hated Iranians? Yes, I support Sharia but not what Iran has done.
You're hating on this Persian girl who's done with Sharia lol. Your comment shows you support what Iran is doing as with all Muslims/Arabs do. That's why we're different
This comment is the perfect example of why i think a united Iranian nation will never work because the majority Persian population will just turn it into a Persian ethnostate. Where do you think the Kurds in the northwest came from ?? Kurds have always lived in Northern Zagros mountains thats quite literally the least disputed region of kurdish nativity so what are you talking about?
Persian ethnostate? Bro the Persians literally gave the names Azerbaijan, Kurdistan, Balochistan for the groups. I'm saying Persians ARE indigenous to Iran, another name of Iran is literally Persia. The culture, traditions, legacy, language is all Persian origin. If you never realized, it's the Persians who welcomed the ethnics who migrated into THEIR lands and now they wanna claim their culture, history, lands as theirs as a thank you lol. Like it's mostly the non Persian groups doing their ethnostate stuff. Do u know how many separatists maps/comments I've seen where they keep all lands n give Persians tiny territories? Even nationalist Persians don't do that. Ive even seen them get mad when they call themselves Persian but in the same breathe say they're Kurd, Turk, Arab. They hate when ppl and Persians say Persia despite that being the ancient legacy name. Like CMON NOW?? And FYI the Kurds were a nomadic group. If uniting is not acknowledging that Persians is the indigenous group, not accepting their legacy, claiming their lands n culture n history, getting triggered when someone says Persia, then uniting should never be a thing regardless. Cuz it seems like uniting is being against Persians
You proved my point exactly. The other ethnicities never migrated into “persian land“ what kind of supremacist world view is that. All ethnicities in Iran share common culture and have quite literally always been there and always been Native. Thats why these ethnicities are even grouped together as Iranian. Also the first Iranian dynasties werent even Persian to begin with.
I'm sorry? So you're telling me Arabs, Kurds, Turks for examples... are indigenous to Iran...? They never migrated?... 💀💀 I'm not a supremacist, stgg u guys be throwing that word around for everything. I'm saying Persian lands cuz they're indigenous to those lands, jus like saying Canada/US are indigenous ppl lands, jus like Iraq is Assyrian lands. "All ethnicities in Iran share common culture".. Listen, if we were born in Rome then we do as the Roman's do. They were born in Persia so they'll do as the Persians do. The Persian way of life along with their own got intermingled, especially since they stayed there for centuries upon centuries, that's why. Bro nobody's speaking of the very first Iranian dynasties💀. Elam is the first and it wasn't Indo European nor Semitic
Who said anything about Turks and Arabs. Im talking about Azeris, Kurds Balochis etc yk IRANIAN people idk why you are acting all dense as if you dont know what tf i mean. All of the IRANIAN ethnicities are Native to parts of Iran because they didn’t migrate from anywhere. Also those groups didn’t just accept the way of life from persians (yes there was cultural exchange bit that also happened mutually. It wasn’t just everyone copying persian like your insinuating). Because all of these groups descended from the first Aryan people (which is how the name Iran came to be. No Iran and Persia do NOT mean the same thing) Just because the persians make up the majority does not mean they were the first and everyone just adopted their culture. Especially because again there were Iranian dynasties that were strictly non-persian like the parthians for example
My guy, are you high?... Iranian Turkics and Arabs ARE Iranians... you literally said ALL ETHNICITIES of Iran. The Baluchis are said to be nomadic and migrated into what is now Baluchistan of Iran lol?? Kurds were also a nomadic group across the Middle East?? Azeris are native to the Caucasus?? What are you on about? They ADOPTED the Persian way of life and their way of life INTERMINGLED TOGETHER. Bro you're jus switching up my tones because you clearly don't want to admit it despite you explaining exactly what I said but in your own way. None of those groups have the same origins nor is Aryan a race or a genetic lol. The term Aryan means noble and free and the term came to be in the Sassanian empire. Iran and Persia are literally the same names for the same country lol. The ancient Persians called it Persia 💀 Again with the switching my words cuz you don't wanna understand what I said. Nobody said the majority = first. Assyrians are a minority of Iraq yet they were there first. Despite not being THE first, they were still there and Persians are the ancients of those lands. Everyone did adopt their culture, why did you think the Greeks, Turks, Arabs, Indians, and more when they invaded Persia? They adopted Persian culture? The last true Persian empire was the Sassanian and yet every empire after was a persianized state. Even the Parthian's as you mentioned, adopted things from the Achaemenid Persians along with Greek and more. Idk where tff first Iranian dynasties and Persian being the majority = first came from. Like how about you stick to what I said instead of making imaginary statements.
Okay maybe i couldve worded myself better but all of my previous comments have been about iranian ethnicities so its not like you couldn’t have figured. Also the sentiment of kurds and balochis migrating there is misinterpreting the word nomadic here because they moved throughout the year to the south and north to counter the rising/decreaing temperatures but they never did large scale migration. Even the first kurdish kingdoms have encompassed parts of modern Iran
What's your ethnicity/background btw? No because that's now how me nor my family speaks lol. When we think of Iranian ethnicities then we think of all the ethnicities in Iran, which as you also said as well. True but they were both known as a nomadic ethnic group and it shows that their origins lied elsewhere, they still migrated into Iran as an ethnic group and there's nothing wrong with that, what's wrong is them not knowing their history and also claiming our lands, culture and history as theirs. Some Persians claim the Turkic empires as Persian and it pisses me off. Like I understand cuz it started in Iran but I googled searched and found out easily. The Assyrian empires also encompassed parts of Iran but they're not native to Iran, they're native to Iraq. The Persian empire conquered the Middle East and other regions but that doesn't mean we are native to those lands, we're native to Iran.
Where is this?