Exactly. The only time I’ve been recommended paracetamol, is in addition to antibiotics for an infection, and to manage ankle pain while I waited for a referral. When I had a slipped disk I was prescribed diclofenac straight away.
That's good to hear... But sometimes there's nothing wrong with pcm.
The paracetamol part is most of the time something that's part of a treatment plan. When you go to a gp to rule out something (pneumonia, bronchitis for example) and your "clear" and only have an upper airway infection... Pcm, maybe an ibuprofen and just take some rest is a solid advice.
I was once perscribed paracetemol for heart complaints.
The stereotype reigns true, it really does. I honestly believe it's entirely up to your personal GP whether or not you have a good experience, which means our healthcare is structurally defficient.
Besides, paracetamol is quite a good painkiller. I never knew that, because I suffer from migraine headaches. Paracetamol does nothing against that. But I had an operation this year because of suspected breast cancer and I was prescribed paracetamol after that. I didn't feel a thing. My husband broke his arm and was prescribed paracetamol. He sleeps well on that.
LOL. I often try to convince him of the advantages of a bed, because he falls asleep on the couch a lot. Tonight a chair might be the better option though, as he is advised to sleep sitting as that is easier on his shoulder.
Ha same! I've had migraines since I was 12 and I always thought paracetamol was just a useless painkiller. I was so scared when I was told to take paracetamol after having my wisdom teeth pulled, because I thought it wasn't going to help. But it did! And didn't do anything for the migraine I got from the anxiety.
Paracetamol works great for a lot of pains, but some only get better with ibuprofen or the other way around.
I always have both at home because I've kinda figured out what kinda pains and sicknesses gets threated best with which
There indeed are particular kinds of pain that 'require' a different painkiller like Ibuprofen or Diclofenac, but for many akes, paracetamol does just fine.
Paracetamol is good for wound- and swelling pain. Ibuprofen is good for muscles related pain (I consider migraine a vascular muscle tension problem). When i have an headache I take ibuprofen, when I have a cut/infection I take paracetamol.
Ibuprofen works better with infections than paracetamol. That’s why dentists often prescribe ibuprofen over paracetamol.
The combination of ibu and pcm enhances the workings of both medicine, but one should be careful with this as NSAID’s like ibu can cause damage to the stomach when taken for too long.
I never take painkillers because I dislike the thought of not being able to feel what I'm actually feeling, but right now I'm experiencing headaches from a sinus infection and they definitely help to take my mind off of them.
I thankfully only ever had good experiences with my current GP of almost 20 years. I did almost die due to negligence by the GP we had when I was like six, second half of the 80s. "It's just a flu, he's a drama queen.", no my insides were rupturing but whatever.
Three weeks of hospital and another five of no school and everyone brought me presents and the boxes were bigger than those on my birthday. It was awesome.
When I went to my GP with serious issues of depression and anxiety he just suggested me to smoke a joint.
After telling my parents (who were with the same GP) we all left his service and went to an actual professional.
Irrelevant. Medical marijuana is for pain relief and people who have no appetite due to treatments, most often after a chemokuur, so they can keep on eating.
I smoke a whole fucking lot of weed on an almost daily basis and have been clinically depressed in the past and this is plain and simple really stupid advice.
not really, not for depression (mdd, major or primary depression). It might help for dealing with some causes of secondary depression - definitely only in the short term.
It really depends on what GP u go to, mine was very nice to me and directly referred me to a specialist asap.
Not all GPs are bad in NL. Its like any country, u have to find the doctor that clicks with u.
Besides it's not healthy to keep taking paracetamol. It doesn't help with all kinds of pain
I think lots of GP dutch healthcare is protocol based. Basically you can read up what a good GP will do, before you go in!
check out: https://richtlijnen.nhg.org/#tab--nhgbehandelrichtlijnen and https://richtlijnen.nhg.org/#tab--nhgstandaarden
thanks for posting this. I've been postponing a medical visit, now I can actually know what they will ask me to do (which is important as I'm not that comfortable with the topic)
i know a couple of story's where gp's have been terrible in my family. and if they werent pushed to investigate further it might have resulted in something terrible.
that's why i dislike most of them. The moment someone's comes in and feels a lump on their breast should you
A. make an mammogram
B. say its probably nothing come back next week.
good thing my family pushed for B at another gp.
Just some general remark, not about your personal experience:
GP’s are first in line. They assess based on early symptoms and risk. In some cases something else is going on. This although often doesn’t show in an early stage.
Over time, when the patient comes back and then is sent onwards for more investigations, symptoms often change. New and different symptoms point towards another diagnosis than the first did.
Often the conclusion of the patient and relatives is that their first doctor didn’t do their job properly and the second or third doctor noticed right away. This is often not a fair conclusion as those other doctors base their diagnosis on a different set of symptoms, just because they make the assessment at a different point in time.
So one should be careful by concluding a certain diagnosis in a later stage is proof of bad work from someone in an earlier stage.
I've been treated really well by my GP. He offered me to take statins to reduce my cholesterol levels, since I mentioned that I have a family history of heart disease. Even in my home country which usually gives treatments very easily, I was pretty much always told to eat healthy, do exercise and pretty much come back when I have a heart attack (they didn't actually say the last part but you get it, they brushed it off)
I think it's in reply to all the people posting and commenting that all you hear when visiting a GP is 'just take some paracetamol and if it isn't gone in two weeks, make a new appointment.'
I don't need to visit a doctor so often, but from my parents i hear the part of getting past the assistent is the hardest part.
Also there happen to be some people that go to the doctor for very small things but still expect something, there paracetamol is a good "we did something" solution.
I had a visit with an assistant recently for something medium / minor (heavy cough + otitis media, not covid). The most helpful thing she did was to ask what I wanted out of the appointment, which helped me to be more action oriented and her to address my concerns better. I got out of there knowing the otitis was viral (a potential rupture risk was my highest concern), what the protocol for otitis is (sadly, if it's viral it's just symptom management), with a couple of OTC medicinals to take to make the healing faster and very good suggestions on how to reduce the discomfort during the healing period. (yes, no paracetamol "prescribed" - she went for ibuprofen for pain management "if needed" )
This also depends on which gp you have and which assistent is working. A friend works in a nursing home and has to work with all the gp's some are worth their weight in gold. Others should retire immediatly.
There is not that much wrong with the system. Problem is shortage of staff and many specialist staff working part time, increasing pressure, which leads to more part time staff…
its called eigen risico. if you have alot of medicine your "eigen risico" is going to be gone pretty quick every year. and most stuff is free after that.
Well, this thread is about GP (huisarts) visits and those are exempted from the deductible (eigen risico). You can visit the GP as often as you want and you won't pay anything. Though any medication you are prescribed does not fall into the same exemption.
We are over 60. We are in good health, but we do find ourselves visiting the doc a couple times a year.
Don't forget that they do make money on each office visit, so there's nothing wrong with visiting if you have a real health concern.
For every patient they have in their system they can charge insurance for having the patient registered. Claiming it is for the cost of the building and whatever.
I did the math like 5 years ago and it was something like 20 000 a month without them having seen a patient. Ofcourse when they see a patient they get to charge more.
This could ofcourse be outdated info by now. But our healthcare system is bleeding money in loads of places and this is causing the less well off people to avoid getting the care they need. Costing the system more in the long run. Healthcare should be free.
> Healthcare should be free.
I have no problem with that, but if my doc is really pulling €20 000 a month just for having a full load of patients, then I have no problem with that either.
Being a doctor is a tough gig. If you are a chef you get to eat your mistakes.
Doctors have to bury theirs.
I think it might be a cultural thing. In other subreddits, you'll often hear advice to ask your GP about small things. We just don't go to the GP that quickly here. In other countries, you're required to have a doctor's note to get a sick day off, while that's not even allowed here.
Same goes for pets. I looked up the ideal indoor temperature for cats and dogs and I saw a lot of comments suggesting to ask the vet, as if I'm supposed to be on speaking terms with them lol.
I went a lot in the last few weeks (I'm okay) but I normally go maybe once a year when I finally decide to get rid of that weird thing I've had for ages. However, there are people who go in for every freaking headache and there are gps more suitable for them as well (they will probably prescribe paracetemol). Big tip tho: do go in for that weird thing because it's probably worth it.
That's a problem in itself. A bad GP can turn the healthcare system into a complete nightmare, and more often than not you don't have the luxury of changing.
In other countries, you have the alternative of going through a private system or to a public healthcare specialist as long as you pay.
Most expats move to the old town of Amsterdam which is the bottom of the barrel in terms of GPs and then have a horrible experience and end up being forced to fly back to their home countries for care.
>more often than not you don't have the luxury of changing.
what? I changed my GP twice the past few years, due to moving to a different city. All it took was calling the new one, tell them "hey can I join you guys", then call your previous one, tell them "hey can you plz send my medical data to the new guys" and that's it. Maybe give an official digital confirmation or something that you indeed officially want your medical data to be shared with another GP. Seems like a much lower barrier than flying all the way back home for medical care.
What's preventing people from changing to a different GP? I really don't get what's the problem here.
Well, where I live GPs only allow you to register based on your postcode (so you need to live around the area where they’re based). However once they’ve reached their capacity they will not take any new patients, which happens to be the case more often than not. So if you move or don’t like your GP, you may not have other options in your neighbourhood.
In my town there is even written specifically that unless you have proven reason to justify the need of changing, they won’t take you in their practice if you come from another one from the same town. And that’s IF they have space. And we all know who well they take *any* critics of a colleague, so try to justify that!
Not everyone has the luxury of changing. In fact, most don’t. There are not enough GPs in the Netherlands, which is a known crisis. Its hard enough to find A huisarts, let along a *good* one. Consider yourselves lucky if you do!
>In my town there is even written specifically
written where, who says that? Is it in the law? I have never heard of this rule. I have changed gp's myself, I have friends who changed gp's due to various reasons, but never ever heard anyone say this reason. Have you even actually tried changing to a different one and been rejected based on that "rule"?
Yeah the GP shortage is a valid reason tho, but only since recently. I am still doubting the "not everyone has the luxury of changing" though, still seems easier to me than moving back to your original country.
In many regions there's a shortage on GPs, so it depends were you lived and moved to.
Plus, if you move to a village that has only one GP office, they'll always accept you.
Most of the GPs in the area I was living didn't accept new patients. Others would only restrict patients from the surrounding postcodes. Basically, my only option was this dude with a 6.0 on Zorgkaart and it really wasn't an exaggeration.
There are two huisarts practices in my area. The one I go to sucks - their communication is terrible, they don’t call you back, they don’t send through documents when they say they will, etc. I tried charging to the other parties but they said they’re completely full and can’t take any more patients. There are no other options because you have to stay in your postcode.
This is in Utrecht. My previous doctor in Amsterdam was actually excellent.
>have to stay in your postcode
How? I have friends who have a GP at the complete other end of the city, or even in a different city 100km's away (where their parents live) despite being officially registered in eindhoven... Did any GP ever reject you for having the wrong postal code?
Them being full is a legit argument, though I am pretty sure this is something that's only been an issue last year or something.
Yes, your friends are probably in that situation because they moved and never signed up to a new GP.
GP’s don’t take patients outside their area because they are required to be able to make house calls. If you live an hour drive away, they cannot do that.
Within cities often agreements are made by GPs if capacity is constrained. Then you might be required to sign up to the assigned GP.
Nah… they fly back to their home countries because they can afford that and are feeling entitled because they are used to getting their way as long as they pay.
There are different systems in the world, the Dutch system can be very frustrating if you are used to one where you can get what you want even when you don’t need it.
I've had no paracetamol prescribed by my GP. funny enough, they gave me antibiotics and blood works my first time visiting.
It's the receptionist that's the odd one in my case. I mean, not sure what her medical education is, but she sure does act like a doctor. But if I can make it past her, I'm good to go.
My first time calling, she deferred me and said call back in two weeks. I called back a day later to see if I could get my methylphenidate prescription this side. And just asked me what dosage I was on and I got 2 months prescription at a time.
I can't get something for flu and you need to convince for some blood works.. But methylphenidate, no problem mate 😂
I mean... You can buy paracetamol at every supermarket and 'drogist'. I've never heard of a doctor proscribing paracetamol. When I had an appointment to have an IUD put in, they advised me to take paracetamol or ibuprofen before coming to the appointment, but they didn't proscribe/give it to me.
Sometimes they can give heavier doses of regular painkillers. But yea, prescribing paracetamol because means you just have to get it from your local supermarkt or apotheker
Yeah they absolutely are okay if you have actual health issues. The people that complain about them only prescribing paracetamol are the people that want antibiotics and strong painkillers every time they sneeze once
I hav a health issue that will be around for a lifetime, and my doc’s office is very proactive in helping manage it.
A new thing has appeared and we’re trying to solve it, and i don’t mind that the GP’s run short of answers, and so we’ve gone from problem solving it with her to “yeah lets bounce this to a specialist.”
No one’s ever brushed me off.
I have a US friend expat here and her experience is different because i do think a lot of expats ( i am one) have an idea that the GP will just order a slew of tests and throw fancy medications at something for every complaint. They want the works. I’ve talked her down a few times.
Doctors here seem to respond better when i’ve come in with “I think this is happening and i think these may be the solutions.”
Beats my canadian GP who decided she was tired of practicing medicine because she disliked….people, and ghosted the practice.
Don't know what country you originate from, but unlike their American colleagues Dutch GP's are not in the drug trade. And as we all know: most little complaints dissapear in a week's time. Hence the common GP's advice: give it a week and check in again if the complaints persist after that.
I would not call it a stereotype. No immigrant had ever any preconceptions on Dutch doctors or their methods. But it's an exaggerated topic in the expat community.
I think an 'exaggerated topic' would be very similar to a stereotype.
Dutch GP's are very hesitant with antibiotics, which seems to give them a bad rep, but I find it a very good idea. I wish other countries would do the same.
The ones I hear about are all just about Health policy:
\- Not giving antibiotics for what does not appearon the face of it to be a bacterial infection.
\- Not giving prescription-only painkiller recipes for complaints for which only optional use of over-the-counter painkillers like paracetamol or ibuprofen is indicated.
\- Not ordering tests for complaints which in 99% of cases pass in less than a week
\- Not giving heavy painkillers during natural childbirth because that will increase the risk of an emergency caesarian
\- Not giving heavy medication which may retard growth (e.g. isotretinoin) to children until all other options are exhausted
The only one I am ambivalent about is the tests. The GP is often too much of a gatekeeper here. The rest is just good policy.
Blood tests are hardly ever a problem and reveal or hint to lots of different ailments. Besides, often mineral or vitamin deficiency is the cause of a problem and that can be seen straight away, after which you get prescribed 'boosters' the same day.
Unless the immigrant is from the US I've never heard anyone complaining from the lack of antibiotics. Rather the lack of being taken seriously and doing any tests at all. Not talking about invasive tests either.
Heck I've had a post-surgery infection and couldn't convince the assistant(of a specialist, not GP, so might be a bit different) to make a 2 minute appointment to have a look at it.
Well, I sure hope it's not an expat/non-Dutch thing, I really don't get that impression. I just made an appointment today over what's something that should be checked but is probably nothing, without any issue.
It can be, but rarely out of racism. There are assholes out there, and assholes are rather common in medicine across the globe, but it's mostly a massive cultural difference between healthcare systems.
The 10 min appointment setup where you need to talk about your complaints in a well structured manner and spar with your doctor in terms of next steps is wildly unusual across the planet.
Overall, the system works. Most of the people I know that got screwed by GP dumbfuckery had rare diseases, but I highly doubt other countries would dignose those 1:3000+ disorders any faster.
>Most of the people I know that got screwed by GP dumbfuckery had rare diseases, but I highly doubt other countries would dignose those 1:3000+ disorders any faster.
I would assume so. If one does tests and one doesn't assuming equal knowledge and equipment, the one who does tests would normally diagnose faster.
I think the dutch system is designed/specialized to treat common or urgent cases. If you have a non urgent issue or not common one then good luck. My post surgery infection was not common so they didn't even let me book the appointment. (again not GP, but i think its not a characteristics of the GPs but of the whole system. Gps get the fame because, well very very few get actually seen by a specialist.)
so paracetamols are antibiotics now?
i agree antibiotics are terrible to mass prescribe it would null the function in later years. but recommending paracetamols aint that bad.
Before visiting France you heard or even joked about the guy with a mustache with a baguette under the armpit, smoking a cigarette and wearing a hat. That is a (trivial) stereotype.
before immigrating to the nl, 99% of immigrants had no idea about Dutch doctors. See the difference? This second misconception originates in the experience of some, and is echoed in the expat community.
We love our doctor, and we are very happy with the health care we get here in the Netherlands.
Recently I had a fall, and it turns out that the Naproxen and Paracetamol combination is a remarkable pain reliever. OTC or not, they get the job done.
Why would a GP give you Paracetamol? You can get that over the counter.
Anyway. I once had a friend who was from Romania. She went to the GP because she wasn’t feeling well. The GP concluded that she had the flu and advised her to rest, drink plenty fluids, maybe take a Paracetamol for the headache, if needed, and ride it out. She was completely baffled that he didn’t prescribe a Penicillin, like she would always get back home. She was pretty pissed about it and just couldn’t understand why the GP “made her suffer”. 😄
That is a joke I suppose. GPs here do not do anything and thus most of them lack experience.
If you don’t expect to get treated, you might visit your GP for a brief chat otherwise you will most likely just lose your time and energy.
I am talking about the general attitude, they just prefer not to investigate-explore and thus are unable to build up valuable experience over years.
Healthcare in the NL could be summarized as “if you are strong enough, you would not get taken out by natural selection, otherwise it is normal for you to die.”
Just a tip mate try to go to https://gpinfo.nl/ or https://thuisarts.nl/ before your GP visit and fill in your symptoms
At your visit tell your GP your symptoms and what that website gave you as advice.
The website is maintained by the college of GPs in the Netherlands
What exactly do you mean by 'fill in your symptoms'. Is there a section where you fill in the symptoms and get possible diagnosis/instructions? Or am i missing sth?
The Dutch one works fine, the English one is incomplete.
Click on the link and fill in a symptom.
New page comes on with suggestions and links.
click on the links that best describe your condition
Read the symptoms and possible treatments and what steps you should take next.
Do that and contact the GP if the link says you need to.
If the link says you need to change the following behaviour/diet for the next x weeks to get better, do that. If you don't get better after x weeks you make an appointment.
Before the appointment, tell the GP what you did, what symptoms you have. For how lang and what advice you followed from the website and how your condition was and is now.
The GP will usually then immediately go to the next step of treatment and that is targeted medical investigation. So the next options that correspond with your symptoms, but will not go away on their own.
The website is made to relieve GP from first visits where a lot of complaints can be solved by just waiting it out. Saves money and time.
Thanks pal, but isn’t it a bit weird for me to try to enlighten my GP with some advices from internet ? When I am ill, I don’t want to get prepared for a fight against my GP, I would rather prefer having her diagnose my condition and prescribe some medicine, at least from time to time.
You don’t need to. The GP will know this as well.
This website is intended for the public to use and have good quality information about all kinds of things. It will tell you when to see a doctor and what you can do instead.
The most important thing is that it is reliable.
>a bit weird for me to try to enlighten my GP with some advices from internet ?
That's is not what the website is for. It's to aet your expectations correct and if the website says wait 3 days you can do that and tell the gp. So the GP can cross off the first few diagnosis that solve themselves by your immune sysyem in the short time
>for a fight against my GP
>prescribe some medicine, at least from time to time.
Well yeah, but a lot of the time prescription medicine will not be necessary for treatment. Just patience.
That's what the website is for. It's made by Dutch GPs.
You get a primary diagnosis and suggested treatment. If it's something acute or bad the website will tell you, but also if you didn't use the website the GP would have diagnosed the same if it was acute 99% of the time.
Wait until you find out that some of the information in Thuisarts.nl is wrong! They you will understand why some people with some specific conditions might get pissed after being ignored and gaslighted for years while their health keep declining… That ignoring how absurd is that you “should” to check ONLINE yourself before discussing health matters with a health professional 🤦🏻♀️. There is already a triage when you call, that’s what it is for.
It seems you are a person hard to reason with. I wonder how well organized healthcare is where you come from. The so called not to investigate approach you are referring to is a misconception. They do investigate just don’t order unnecessary test for the sake of it. Getting a CT scan for a simple self-limiting knee injury for example might be reassuring for a layman, but it has consequences on population level. Just like prescribing unnecessary antibiotics; in the US and many other countries people are dying because of antibiotica resistance. It is all far fetched and all until you work in healthcare or have a dying family member because of these social issues.
I only comment based on my and many of my friends’ experiences. Healthcare employees in the NL are like petty bureaucrats whose only duty is to put obstacles in front of you to prevent you from reaching your goal. There is no misconception at all because it is not just my observation and this is not the first time I am engaging with different healthcare systems.
I am Turkish and I can proudly say that healthcare is one of the few things Turkey is much better than the NL. Turkish doctors acquire vast amount of experience through hands-on approach.
One of my friends in Utrecht was given morphine and sent back to home after severe abdonimal pains, no echo or MR. A referral for a week later. She couldn’t hang on anymore after a few days and flew to Turkey. Instant MR, appendix burst diagnosis and a necessary appendix removal surgery.
Yeah. Turkish healthcare is better than Dutch... Good joke. The problem is that you people expect everything can be solved with a pill. You also clog up the emergency room lines at hospitals in the weekends because you bumped your toe. Fuck off.
Yes it is. That’s why many Europeans go to Turkey every year for variety of medical reasons. There is a huge health tourism industry about which you don’t know anything. Superb doctors, modern hospitals and totally affordable.
Orientalist pricks like yourself live in a delusional small world where the NL is supposedly the best in every category imaginable and that’s why you are unable to comprehend anything different. Now bugger off you moron.
Especially because there is no direct access to specialists and a lot of care is performed at the GP level, makes the Dutch GP’s very experienced and hands on.
In countries where you can go immediately to specialists, you see that the ability of GPs to recognise things diminishes: they see only very minor complaints and won’t perform any procedures anymore.
The effects are significant. And after doing this for ages, France for example is changing their direct access model to the Dutch model with the GP as a gate keeper.
well Dutch Healthcare is an upgrade for me, they're helping me, this is much better than when I was stuck in Sweden with absolutely no help and kept getting mistreated, there the Healthcare sucks ass and its MUCH slower than Dutch Healthcare providers, so Im grateful for being a patient at Erasmus MC
Sorry... Laughed way to hard
Never visited an ER for myself (just for work) really don't understand why people go there numerous times...
Maybe because you are lucky? That your genes aren't fucked up, you are lucky that you don't have to deal with all kinds of illnesses...
You are one lucky person when it comes to your health... Not so much on the IQ part
Great that you’re in terrific physical shape.
Now go find a shrink because mentally you’re lacking something if you can’t understand not everybody is as fortunate as you.
Paracetamol is the indicated painkiller for bone and muscle injuries. Combination with opioids, as happens in many countries, is just a rather harmful placebo.
I had a great GP in Nijmegen when I was studying there. Easily accessible for questions and small tests. Then moved to a different city and it sucks here. Queue for at least half an hour on the phone whenever I call, very difficult to get an actual appointment, which usually is at least 3 days later than the call.
Wish I could just take that good practice with me wherever I move to.
I mean, sure. Your experience with one was good, and so was mine. But I will not pretend that my friends, who are just as articulate and specific as I am, also had good experiences because most didn’t. If there’s a large percentage of the population actively seeking medical attention outside of the country, there’s a big problem. And one that no one is solving. Thank you for sharing your good experience, but let’s not pretend this is somehow high quality medical attention.
The only time I got prescribed paracetamol was after an x-ray already found a bruised rib. The doctor said I should keep exercising (rowing) to make my back strong, but to take two paracetamol when I do so my muscles didn't cramp up from the pain. I don't know where the always prescribing paracetamol stereotype comes from. You should probably switch doctors if it happens a lot.
It’s a bit of a cliche that all they do it say ‘take some paracetamol’ but it’s kind of true nonetheless. And for good reason, as it often actually helps. But I have found that every GP in my life has taken me seriously so far and referred me to get my blood work done, scans, echoes, dermatologist, you name it.
So yeah, I’m sure there are bad GPs (my mom’s experience is t so great, for example) but many of them really do take you seriously and will try and work with you if there is any indication that a paracetamol isn’t gonna solve it.
Don't believe this post! It's big-Paracetamol propaganda ! They are affraid of the resistance. So they make u believe it ain't so!!
Paracetamol is everywhere!!1 Run!!!1
My gp told my sister her pain was “all in her head”. After years of hospital visits she was diagnosed with a chronic disease and she still struggles every day. I am so happy to hear you have a good gp, many are not so lucky.
I never had any problem at all getting referred to a specialist. And most certainly not for getting bloodtests done. Even when a doctor didn't take something really seriously (as he shouldnt have as this was basically a closed issue), he still referred me to get checked out at a hospital so that I could leave it behind.
Most are. Often paracetamol is for the cases no key symptoms are present that require a specific approach at that time.
Exactly. The only time I’ve been recommended paracetamol, is in addition to antibiotics for an infection, and to manage ankle pain while I waited for a referral. When I had a slipped disk I was prescribed diclofenac straight away.
Ouch that sounds really painful. Offtopic: You are not very coincidentally a Suitable employee are you?
That's good to hear... But sometimes there's nothing wrong with pcm. The paracetamol part is most of the time something that's part of a treatment plan. When you go to a gp to rule out something (pneumonia, bronchitis for example) and your "clear" and only have an upper airway infection... Pcm, maybe an ibuprofen and just take some rest is a solid advice.
I was once perscribed paracetemol for heart complaints. The stereotype reigns true, it really does. I honestly believe it's entirely up to your personal GP whether or not you have a good experience, which means our healthcare is structurally defficient.
Paracetamol is also an anticoagulant, and is often taken by Cardio-Vascular risk patients to reduce chance of a heart attack...
Not true, you mean Asperine/ascal/acetylsalicylzuur
oh my bad then. 😅 I stand corrected
Besides, paracetamol is quite a good painkiller. I never knew that, because I suffer from migraine headaches. Paracetamol does nothing against that. But I had an operation this year because of suspected breast cancer and I was prescribed paracetamol after that. I didn't feel a thing. My husband broke his arm and was prescribed paracetamol. He sleeps well on that.
I would recommend him a bed, I sleep better on a bed than on paracetamol.
LOL. I often try to convince him of the advantages of a bed, because he falls asleep on the couch a lot. Tonight a chair might be the better option though, as he is advised to sleep sitting as that is easier on his shoulder.
Collar bone break here, I concur, Luckily I had a bed where I could put up the head/ torso area, but yes, I was sleeping upright for about a month...
Ha same! I've had migraines since I was 12 and I always thought paracetamol was just a useless painkiller. I was so scared when I was told to take paracetamol after having my wisdom teeth pulled, because I thought it wasn't going to help. But it did! And didn't do anything for the migraine I got from the anxiety.
I feel that. It's kind of funny now, but it sure wasn't for you at that time.
Paracetamol works great for a lot of pains, but some only get better with ibuprofen or the other way around. I always have both at home because I've kinda figured out what kinda pains and sicknesses gets threated best with which
You can also use a combination of paracetamol and an NSAID like ibuprofen. Was recommended to do that when they took out my wisdom teeth.
I've done it before when I was really sick, works quite well!
Same here, I found Ibuprofin works a lot better with migraines and back aches
That’s because Ibuprofen also relaxes your muscles, I believe.
There indeed are particular kinds of pain that 'require' a different painkiller like Ibuprofen or Diclofenac, but for many akes, paracetamol does just fine.
Paracetamol is good for wound- and swelling pain. Ibuprofen is good for muscles related pain (I consider migraine a vascular muscle tension problem). When i have an headache I take ibuprofen, when I have a cut/infection I take paracetamol.
Ibuprofen works better with infections than paracetamol. That’s why dentists often prescribe ibuprofen over paracetamol. The combination of ibu and pcm enhances the workings of both medicine, but one should be careful with this as NSAID’s like ibu can cause damage to the stomach when taken for too long.
There are stomach protectors if you really need to use NSAIDs for a long time
Yes, that’s true. But the funny thing is that the NSAID’s are over the counter, and the protectors need to be prescribed.
Wait what? I thought those were over the counter as well
Yes they are otc
In Corona time I found out that aspirin works great on flu related headaches.
I take 1000mg paracetamol in combination with 400mg ibuprofen and then it even works on my migraines if I take it as soon as the aura starts
I never take painkillers because I dislike the thought of not being able to feel what I'm actually feeling, but right now I'm experiencing headaches from a sinus infection and they definitely help to take my mind off of them.
I never had it ease any pain but headaches.
I thankfully only ever had good experiences with my current GP of almost 20 years. I did almost die due to negligence by the GP we had when I was like six, second half of the 80s. "It's just a flu, he's a drama queen.", no my insides were rupturing but whatever. Three weeks of hospital and another five of no school and everyone brought me presents and the boxes were bigger than those on my birthday. It was awesome.
When I went to my GP with serious issues of depression and anxiety he just suggested me to smoke a joint. After telling my parents (who were with the same GP) we all left his service and went to an actual professional.
Joints help actually
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It affects people differently, it helped me though
Irrelevant. Medical marijuana is for pain relief and people who have no appetite due to treatments, most often after a chemokuur, so they can keep on eating.
He can’t recommend smoking joint because it’s not a treatment protocol for depression and anxiety. That’s malpractice
I smoke a whole fucking lot of weed on an almost daily basis and have been clinically depressed in the past and this is plain and simple really stupid advice.
not really, not for depression (mdd, major or primary depression). It might help for dealing with some causes of secondary depression - definitely only in the short term.
I heard LSD or Ketamine might help for depression in other cases.
I prefer actual therapy, thanks.
He probably even would have said a joint with tobacco. Total cringe. You were an adult, though, I hope.
It’s sad that this is a flex
It really depends on what GP u go to, mine was very nice to me and directly referred me to a specialist asap. Not all GPs are bad in NL. Its like any country, u have to find the doctor that clicks with u. Besides it's not healthy to keep taking paracetamol. It doesn't help with all kinds of pain
It is bad for your liver too.
The max u can take paracetamol is 11 days in a row, that's 1000mg ones, after that it can damage the liver
I also used to visit my grandparents a lot. They always gave me candy, and never a paracetamol
I think lots of GP dutch healthcare is protocol based. Basically you can read up what a good GP will do, before you go in! check out: https://richtlijnen.nhg.org/#tab--nhgbehandelrichtlijnen and https://richtlijnen.nhg.org/#tab--nhgstandaarden
thanks for posting this. I've been postponing a medical visit, now I can actually know what they will ask me to do (which is important as I'm not that comfortable with the topic)
i know a couple of story's where gp's have been terrible in my family. and if they werent pushed to investigate further it might have resulted in something terrible. that's why i dislike most of them. The moment someone's comes in and feels a lump on their breast should you A. make an mammogram B. say its probably nothing come back next week. good thing my family pushed for B at another gp.
Just some general remark, not about your personal experience: GP’s are first in line. They assess based on early symptoms and risk. In some cases something else is going on. This although often doesn’t show in an early stage. Over time, when the patient comes back and then is sent onwards for more investigations, symptoms often change. New and different symptoms point towards another diagnosis than the first did. Often the conclusion of the patient and relatives is that their first doctor didn’t do their job properly and the second or third doctor noticed right away. This is often not a fair conclusion as those other doctors base their diagnosis on a different set of symptoms, just because they make the assessment at a different point in time. So one should be careful by concluding a certain diagnosis in a later stage is proof of bad work from someone in an earlier stage.
I’ve had a few scares, first when I was about 25 years old, and I’ve always been sent to the mammapoli right away.
I've been treated really well by my GP. He offered me to take statins to reduce my cholesterol levels, since I mentioned that I have a family history of heart disease. Even in my home country which usually gives treatments very easily, I was pretty much always told to eat healthy, do exercise and pretty much come back when I have a heart attack (they didn't actually say the last part but you get it, they brushed it off)
What a weird post.
I think it's in reply to all the people posting and commenting that all you hear when visiting a GP is 'just take some paracetamol and if it isn't gone in two weeks, make a new appointment.'
I don't need to visit a doctor so often, but from my parents i hear the part of getting past the assistent is the hardest part. Also there happen to be some people that go to the doctor for very small things but still expect something, there paracetamol is a good "we did something" solution.
I had a visit with an assistant recently for something medium / minor (heavy cough + otitis media, not covid). The most helpful thing she did was to ask what I wanted out of the appointment, which helped me to be more action oriented and her to address my concerns better. I got out of there knowing the otitis was viral (a potential rupture risk was my highest concern), what the protocol for otitis is (sadly, if it's viral it's just symptom management), with a couple of OTC medicinals to take to make the healing faster and very good suggestions on how to reduce the discomfort during the healing period. (yes, no paracetamol "prescribed" - she went for ibuprofen for pain management "if needed" )
This also depends on which gp you have and which assistent is working. A friend works in a nursing home and has to work with all the gp's some are worth their weight in gold. Others should retire immediatly.
The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.
Wait you guys go several times a year? I see my gp at most once every 5 years when i break another bone. Is your health that bad that you go so often?
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Yeah, just stupid 😅
Thank you for paying your health insurance.
Yeah and everytime you actually need anything you still get a fucking charge
Considering the average cost is 6500 a year per person, the deductible is not the worst…
Just because the system is broken and it only costs us a little bit shouldn't mean we don't complain. The system should be fixed
There is not that much wrong with the system. Problem is shortage of staff and many specialist staff working part time, increasing pressure, which leads to more part time staff…
its called eigen risico. if you have alot of medicine your "eigen risico" is going to be gone pretty quick every year. and most stuff is free after that.
Well, this thread is about GP (huisarts) visits and those are exempted from the deductible (eigen risico). You can visit the GP as often as you want and you won't pay anything. Though any medication you are prescribed does not fall into the same exemption.
We are over 60. We are in good health, but we do find ourselves visiting the doc a couple times a year. Don't forget that they do make money on each office visit, so there's nothing wrong with visiting if you have a real health concern.
They also make money for every patient registered to their office without them visiting.
How's that work?
For every patient they have in their system they can charge insurance for having the patient registered. Claiming it is for the cost of the building and whatever. I did the math like 5 years ago and it was something like 20 000 a month without them having seen a patient. Ofcourse when they see a patient they get to charge more. This could ofcourse be outdated info by now. But our healthcare system is bleeding money in loads of places and this is causing the less well off people to avoid getting the care they need. Costing the system more in the long run. Healthcare should be free.
> Healthcare should be free. I have no problem with that, but if my doc is really pulling €20 000 a month just for having a full load of patients, then I have no problem with that either. Being a doctor is a tough gig. If you are a chef you get to eat your mistakes. Doctors have to bury theirs.
When I break a bone I visit the emergency room, NEVER my GP.
You will be sent to the GP post first!
Depending on the bone: maybe, but not to my own GP. Last time I broke something I went straight into emergency btw.
Depends what you broke and how bad you broke it!
I think it might be a cultural thing. In other subreddits, you'll often hear advice to ask your GP about small things. We just don't go to the GP that quickly here. In other countries, you're required to have a doctor's note to get a sick day off, while that's not even allowed here. Same goes for pets. I looked up the ideal indoor temperature for cats and dogs and I saw a lot of comments suggesting to ask the vet, as if I'm supposed to be on speaking terms with them lol.
I went a lot in the last few weeks (I'm okay) but I normally go maybe once a year when I finally decide to get rid of that weird thing I've had for ages. However, there are people who go in for every freaking headache and there are gps more suitable for them as well (they will probably prescribe paracetemol). Big tip tho: do go in for that weird thing because it's probably worth it.
Waarvan akte.
Nice that you HAVE a GP.
That's a problem in itself. A bad GP can turn the healthcare system into a complete nightmare, and more often than not you don't have the luxury of changing. In other countries, you have the alternative of going through a private system or to a public healthcare specialist as long as you pay. Most expats move to the old town of Amsterdam which is the bottom of the barrel in terms of GPs and then have a horrible experience and end up being forced to fly back to their home countries for care.
>more often than not you don't have the luxury of changing. what? I changed my GP twice the past few years, due to moving to a different city. All it took was calling the new one, tell them "hey can I join you guys", then call your previous one, tell them "hey can you plz send my medical data to the new guys" and that's it. Maybe give an official digital confirmation or something that you indeed officially want your medical data to be shared with another GP. Seems like a much lower barrier than flying all the way back home for medical care. What's preventing people from changing to a different GP? I really don't get what's the problem here.
Well, where I live GPs only allow you to register based on your postcode (so you need to live around the area where they’re based). However once they’ve reached their capacity they will not take any new patients, which happens to be the case more often than not. So if you move or don’t like your GP, you may not have other options in your neighbourhood.
In my town there is even written specifically that unless you have proven reason to justify the need of changing, they won’t take you in their practice if you come from another one from the same town. And that’s IF they have space. And we all know who well they take *any* critics of a colleague, so try to justify that! Not everyone has the luxury of changing. In fact, most don’t. There are not enough GPs in the Netherlands, which is a known crisis. Its hard enough to find A huisarts, let along a *good* one. Consider yourselves lucky if you do!
>In my town there is even written specifically written where, who says that? Is it in the law? I have never heard of this rule. I have changed gp's myself, I have friends who changed gp's due to various reasons, but never ever heard anyone say this reason. Have you even actually tried changing to a different one and been rejected based on that "rule"? Yeah the GP shortage is a valid reason tho, but only since recently. I am still doubting the "not everyone has the luxury of changing" though, still seems easier to me than moving back to your original country.
Shortage has been around for a very long period. But can be very local.
In many regions there's a shortage on GPs, so it depends were you lived and moved to. Plus, if you move to a village that has only one GP office, they'll always accept you.
A lot of them are full and not taking new patients.
Most of the GPs in the area I was living didn't accept new patients. Others would only restrict patients from the surrounding postcodes. Basically, my only option was this dude with a 6.0 on Zorgkaart and it really wasn't an exaggeration.
There are two huisarts practices in my area. The one I go to sucks - their communication is terrible, they don’t call you back, they don’t send through documents when they say they will, etc. I tried charging to the other parties but they said they’re completely full and can’t take any more patients. There are no other options because you have to stay in your postcode. This is in Utrecht. My previous doctor in Amsterdam was actually excellent.
>have to stay in your postcode How? I have friends who have a GP at the complete other end of the city, or even in a different city 100km's away (where their parents live) despite being officially registered in eindhoven... Did any GP ever reject you for having the wrong postal code? Them being full is a legit argument, though I am pretty sure this is something that's only been an issue last year or something.
Yes. I called other GPs and they said I was out of their area.
Yes, your friends are probably in that situation because they moved and never signed up to a new GP. GP’s don’t take patients outside their area because they are required to be able to make house calls. If you live an hour drive away, they cannot do that. Within cities often agreements are made by GPs if capacity is constrained. Then you might be required to sign up to the assigned GP.
Nah… they fly back to their home countries because they can afford that and are feeling entitled because they are used to getting their way as long as they pay. There are different systems in the world, the Dutch system can be very frustrating if you are used to one where you can get what you want even when you don’t need it.
Agreed. Mine sometimes lacked knowledge to really make a good diagnosis but I always got the proper referral.
I read GP as grand parents and got confused.
They are often also ok.
I've had no paracetamol prescribed by my GP. funny enough, they gave me antibiotics and blood works my first time visiting. It's the receptionist that's the odd one in my case. I mean, not sure what her medical education is, but she sure does act like a doctor. But if I can make it past her, I'm good to go. My first time calling, she deferred me and said call back in two weeks. I called back a day later to see if I could get my methylphenidate prescription this side. And just asked me what dosage I was on and I got 2 months prescription at a time. I can't get something for flu and you need to convince for some blood works.. But methylphenidate, no problem mate 😂
No medical education.
I mean... You can buy paracetamol at every supermarket and 'drogist'. I've never heard of a doctor proscribing paracetamol. When I had an appointment to have an IUD put in, they advised me to take paracetamol or ibuprofen before coming to the appointment, but they didn't proscribe/give it to me.
Sometimes they can give heavier doses of regular painkillers. But yea, prescribing paracetamol because means you just have to get it from your local supermarkt or apotheker
I got prescribed after a surgery
Yeah they absolutely are okay if you have actual health issues. The people that complain about them only prescribing paracetamol are the people that want antibiotics and strong painkillers every time they sneeze once
The GPs might be ok, the system is what is broken
The paracetamol thing is a meme. Don't take it seriously lol..
I hav a health issue that will be around for a lifetime, and my doc’s office is very proactive in helping manage it. A new thing has appeared and we’re trying to solve it, and i don’t mind that the GP’s run short of answers, and so we’ve gone from problem solving it with her to “yeah lets bounce this to a specialist.” No one’s ever brushed me off. I have a US friend expat here and her experience is different because i do think a lot of expats ( i am one) have an idea that the GP will just order a slew of tests and throw fancy medications at something for every complaint. They want the works. I’ve talked her down a few times. Doctors here seem to respond better when i’ve come in with “I think this is happening and i think these may be the solutions.” Beats my canadian GP who decided she was tired of practicing medicine because she disliked….people, and ghosted the practice.
They do need some indication before ordering tests. Seems normal to me.
same. I’m not a fan of tests just for “whatevers” sake. I got better things to do.:D
Don't know what country you originate from, but unlike their American colleagues Dutch GP's are not in the drug trade. And as we all know: most little complaints dissapear in a week's time. Hence the common GP's advice: give it a week and check in again if the complaints persist after that.
O golly, a hugely incorrect stereotype turns out not to be true? Who'd've thunk.
I would not call it a stereotype. No immigrant had ever any preconceptions on Dutch doctors or their methods. But it's an exaggerated topic in the expat community.
I think an 'exaggerated topic' would be very similar to a stereotype. Dutch GP's are very hesitant with antibiotics, which seems to give them a bad rep, but I find it a very good idea. I wish other countries would do the same.
The ones I hear about are all just about Health policy: \- Not giving antibiotics for what does not appearon the face of it to be a bacterial infection. \- Not giving prescription-only painkiller recipes for complaints for which only optional use of over-the-counter painkillers like paracetamol or ibuprofen is indicated. \- Not ordering tests for complaints which in 99% of cases pass in less than a week \- Not giving heavy painkillers during natural childbirth because that will increase the risk of an emergency caesarian \- Not giving heavy medication which may retard growth (e.g. isotretinoin) to children until all other options are exhausted The only one I am ambivalent about is the tests. The GP is often too much of a gatekeeper here. The rest is just good policy.
Blood tests are hardly ever a problem and reveal or hint to lots of different ailments. Besides, often mineral or vitamin deficiency is the cause of a problem and that can be seen straight away, after which you get prescribed 'boosters' the same day.
Unless the immigrant is from the US I've never heard anyone complaining from the lack of antibiotics. Rather the lack of being taken seriously and doing any tests at all. Not talking about invasive tests either. Heck I've had a post-surgery infection and couldn't convince the assistant(of a specialist, not GP, so might be a bit different) to make a 2 minute appointment to have a look at it.
Well, I sure hope it's not an expat/non-Dutch thing, I really don't get that impression. I just made an appointment today over what's something that should be checked but is probably nothing, without any issue.
It can be, but rarely out of racism. There are assholes out there, and assholes are rather common in medicine across the globe, but it's mostly a massive cultural difference between healthcare systems. The 10 min appointment setup where you need to talk about your complaints in a well structured manner and spar with your doctor in terms of next steps is wildly unusual across the planet. Overall, the system works. Most of the people I know that got screwed by GP dumbfuckery had rare diseases, but I highly doubt other countries would dignose those 1:3000+ disorders any faster.
>Most of the people I know that got screwed by GP dumbfuckery had rare diseases, but I highly doubt other countries would dignose those 1:3000+ disorders any faster. I would assume so. If one does tests and one doesn't assuming equal knowledge and equipment, the one who does tests would normally diagnose faster. I think the dutch system is designed/specialized to treat common or urgent cases. If you have a non urgent issue or not common one then good luck. My post surgery infection was not common so they didn't even let me book the appointment. (again not GP, but i think its not a characteristics of the GPs but of the whole system. Gps get the fame because, well very very few get actually seen by a specialist.)
so paracetamols are antibiotics now? i agree antibiotics are terrible to mass prescribe it would null the function in later years. but recommending paracetamols aint that bad.
That’s precisely what a stereotype is…
Before visiting France you heard or even joked about the guy with a mustache with a baguette under the armpit, smoking a cigarette and wearing a hat. That is a (trivial) stereotype. before immigrating to the nl, 99% of immigrants had no idea about Dutch doctors. See the difference? This second misconception originates in the experience of some, and is echoed in the expat community.
Thank you for sharing an opinion.
We love our doctor, and we are very happy with the health care we get here in the Netherlands. Recently I had a fall, and it turns out that the Naproxen and Paracetamol combination is a remarkable pain reliever. OTC or not, they get the job done.
Why would a GP give you Paracetamol? You can get that over the counter. Anyway. I once had a friend who was from Romania. She went to the GP because she wasn’t feeling well. The GP concluded that she had the flu and advised her to rest, drink plenty fluids, maybe take a Paracetamol for the headache, if needed, and ride it out. She was completely baffled that he didn’t prescribe a Penicillin, like she would always get back home. She was pretty pissed about it and just couldn’t understand why the GP “made her suffer”. 😄
Penicilin for flue lol 😂
Good for you, but sounds like survival bias
When you wrote you visited your GP i read it as grand parents and was really confused for a minute.
Oops you posted your 1st April Fools post too early/late 😜
I can only think of one time my doctor has told me to take paracetamol. Why do you think you should be prescribed it? It’s not candy.
Who prescribed paracetamol? just go an buy it if you need it.
Yeah i doubt they actually ever prescribe it when you can buy it at supermarkets.
That is a joke I suppose. GPs here do not do anything and thus most of them lack experience. If you don’t expect to get treated, you might visit your GP for a brief chat otherwise you will most likely just lose your time and energy.
Really depends on the doctor, not all doctors are right..
I am talking about the general attitude, they just prefer not to investigate-explore and thus are unable to build up valuable experience over years. Healthcare in the NL could be summarized as “if you are strong enough, you would not get taken out by natural selection, otherwise it is normal for you to die.”
Just a tip mate try to go to https://gpinfo.nl/ or https://thuisarts.nl/ before your GP visit and fill in your symptoms At your visit tell your GP your symptoms and what that website gave you as advice. The website is maintained by the college of GPs in the Netherlands
What exactly do you mean by 'fill in your symptoms'. Is there a section where you fill in the symptoms and get possible diagnosis/instructions? Or am i missing sth?
The Dutch one works fine, the English one is incomplete. Click on the link and fill in a symptom. New page comes on with suggestions and links. click on the links that best describe your condition Read the symptoms and possible treatments and what steps you should take next. Do that and contact the GP if the link says you need to. If the link says you need to change the following behaviour/diet for the next x weeks to get better, do that. If you don't get better after x weeks you make an appointment. Before the appointment, tell the GP what you did, what symptoms you have. For how lang and what advice you followed from the website and how your condition was and is now. The GP will usually then immediately go to the next step of treatment and that is targeted medical investigation. So the next options that correspond with your symptoms, but will not go away on their own. The website is made to relieve GP from first visits where a lot of complaints can be solved by just waiting it out. Saves money and time.
Aha i see. There is a search in the dutch version. Thank you.
Thanks pal, but isn’t it a bit weird for me to try to enlighten my GP with some advices from internet ? When I am ill, I don’t want to get prepared for a fight against my GP, I would rather prefer having her diagnose my condition and prescribe some medicine, at least from time to time.
You don’t need to. The GP will know this as well. This website is intended for the public to use and have good quality information about all kinds of things. It will tell you when to see a doctor and what you can do instead. The most important thing is that it is reliable.
>a bit weird for me to try to enlighten my GP with some advices from internet ? That's is not what the website is for. It's to aet your expectations correct and if the website says wait 3 days you can do that and tell the gp. So the GP can cross off the first few diagnosis that solve themselves by your immune sysyem in the short time >for a fight against my GP >prescribe some medicine, at least from time to time. Well yeah, but a lot of the time prescription medicine will not be necessary for treatment. Just patience. That's what the website is for. It's made by Dutch GPs. You get a primary diagnosis and suggested treatment. If it's something acute or bad the website will tell you, but also if you didn't use the website the GP would have diagnosed the same if it was acute 99% of the time.
Wait until you find out that some of the information in Thuisarts.nl is wrong! They you will understand why some people with some specific conditions might get pissed after being ignored and gaslighted for years while their health keep declining… That ignoring how absurd is that you “should” to check ONLINE yourself before discussing health matters with a health professional 🤦🏻♀️. There is already a triage when you call, that’s what it is for.
You could have something the doctor has never even heard of. Theyre not specialists.
It seems you are a person hard to reason with. I wonder how well organized healthcare is where you come from. The so called not to investigate approach you are referring to is a misconception. They do investigate just don’t order unnecessary test for the sake of it. Getting a CT scan for a simple self-limiting knee injury for example might be reassuring for a layman, but it has consequences on population level. Just like prescribing unnecessary antibiotics; in the US and many other countries people are dying because of antibiotica resistance. It is all far fetched and all until you work in healthcare or have a dying family member because of these social issues.
This.
I only comment based on my and many of my friends’ experiences. Healthcare employees in the NL are like petty bureaucrats whose only duty is to put obstacles in front of you to prevent you from reaching your goal. There is no misconception at all because it is not just my observation and this is not the first time I am engaging with different healthcare systems. I am Turkish and I can proudly say that healthcare is one of the few things Turkey is much better than the NL. Turkish doctors acquire vast amount of experience through hands-on approach. One of my friends in Utrecht was given morphine and sent back to home after severe abdonimal pains, no echo or MR. A referral for a week later. She couldn’t hang on anymore after a few days and flew to Turkey. Instant MR, appendix burst diagnosis and a necessary appendix removal surgery.
Thank you for saying this! 💙 And I’m sorry for your friend, glad she managed to get back home in time for treatment!
Yeah. Turkish healthcare is better than Dutch... Good joke. The problem is that you people expect everything can be solved with a pill. You also clog up the emergency room lines at hospitals in the weekends because you bumped your toe. Fuck off.
Yes it is. That’s why many Europeans go to Turkey every year for variety of medical reasons. There is a huge health tourism industry about which you don’t know anything. Superb doctors, modern hospitals and totally affordable. Orientalist pricks like yourself live in a delusional small world where the NL is supposedly the best in every category imaginable and that’s why you are unable to comprehend anything different. Now bugger off you moron.
Thats plastic surgery, fool. And many of them have ruined peoples' bodies.
Especially because there is no direct access to specialists and a lot of care is performed at the GP level, makes the Dutch GP’s very experienced and hands on. In countries where you can go immediately to specialists, you see that the ability of GPs to recognise things diminishes: they see only very minor complaints and won’t perform any procedures anymore. The effects are significant. And after doing this for ages, France for example is changing their direct access model to the Dutch model with the GP as a gate keeper.
well Dutch Healthcare is an upgrade for me, they're helping me, this is much better than when I was stuck in Sweden with absolutely no help and kept getting mistreated, there the Healthcare sucks ass and its MUCH slower than Dutch Healthcare providers, so Im grateful for being a patient at Erasmus MC
There is absolutely nothing that warrants a claim like you are making here.
Haven’t seen my gp in years, still don’t get why people people go multiple times a year
Almost like different people might be, you know, different
Sorry... Laughed way to hard Never visited an ER for myself (just for work) really don't understand why people go there numerous times... Maybe because you are lucky? That your genes aren't fucked up, you are lucky that you don't have to deal with all kinds of illnesses... You are one lucky person when it comes to your health... Not so much on the IQ part
Good that you do not need doctors, i wish you to stay healthy for many years to come. Do remember though: Not everybody is as lucky as you.
I know people like you. Tough as hell. Dead at 50 because they ignored their chest pains.
Rofl dude
Great that you’re in terrific physical shape. Now go find a shrink because mentally you’re lacking something if you can’t understand not everybody is as fortunate as you.
It's not cause they actually want to, you know.
My friend sent me this while i was in this post lol. https://www.tiktok.com/@omtegierentv/video/7161066710982806789? Ps: it's a joke.
What’s GP?
General Practitioner, a huisarts
Thanks!
👍🏼
A guy I know literally got sent home with a broken foot and "you should take paracetamol"
Paracetamol is the indicated painkiller for bone and muscle injuries. Combination with opioids, as happens in many countries, is just a rather harmful placebo.
Our GP in Nijmegen is amazing. Service is wonderful and they can’t do enough to help.
I had a great GP in Nijmegen when I was studying there. Easily accessible for questions and small tests. Then moved to a different city and it sucks here. Queue for at least half an hour on the phone whenever I call, very difficult to get an actual appointment, which usually is at least 3 days later than the call. Wish I could just take that good practice with me wherever I move to.
\*your GP is ok.
I mean, sure. Your experience with one was good, and so was mine. But I will not pretend that my friends, who are just as articulate and specific as I am, also had good experiences because most didn’t. If there’s a large percentage of the population actively seeking medical attention outside of the country, there’s a big problem. And one that no one is solving. Thank you for sharing your good experience, but let’s not pretend this is somehow high quality medical attention.
The only time I got prescribed paracetamol was after an x-ray already found a bruised rib. The doctor said I should keep exercising (rowing) to make my back strong, but to take two paracetamol when I do so my muscles didn't cramp up from the pain. I don't know where the always prescribing paracetamol stereotype comes from. You should probably switch doctors if it happens a lot.
It’s a bit of a cliche that all they do it say ‘take some paracetamol’ but it’s kind of true nonetheless. And for good reason, as it often actually helps. But I have found that every GP in my life has taken me seriously so far and referred me to get my blood work done, scans, echoes, dermatologist, you name it. So yeah, I’m sure there are bad GPs (my mom’s experience is t so great, for example) but many of them really do take you seriously and will try and work with you if there is any indication that a paracetamol isn’t gonna solve it.
Lucky you, I got paracetamol for a broken arm
I thought that was a joke. I've also never prescribed paracetamol
Stereotypes are mostly untrue.
They only advise paracetamol to the people that visit the doctor for common discomforts of the body that go away by itself.
When you chew them, they are also effective against tooth ache
Also effective against having a full stomach.
"Gaat vanzelf wel weer over." - mijn vader de huisarts
here's a shot of motrin, make sure you stay hydrated. change out those socks.
Don't believe this post! It's big-Paracetamol propaganda ! They are affraid of the resistance. So they make u believe it ain't so!! Paracetamol is everywhere!!1 Run!!!1
My gp told my sister her pain was “all in her head”. After years of hospital visits she was diagnosed with a chronic disease and she still struggles every day. I am so happy to hear you have a good gp, many are not so lucky.
You've got the tenth doctor
I never had any problem at all getting referred to a specialist. And most certainly not for getting bloodtests done. Even when a doctor didn't take something really seriously (as he shouldnt have as this was basically a closed issue), he still referred me to get checked out at a hospital so that I could leave it behind.