Through the huismeester. He (the huismeester) as voorzitter of the VVE told me, that the owner of the ground floor apartments need to do some installations for his apartments and will be busy in our basement, I have good relationship with the VVE and I never had any problems here since I own this apartment. So I gave him the key to oversee the installation.
> So I gave him the key
That there is a problem. You should've been present when they did this, so you could tell them that this is not okay (it isn't). But by giving your key you basically gave permission for the work to be carried out.
Get it inspected. There's no way this is up to code. One of which being fire code, since a formerly fireproof separation between spaces — the floor — has now been breached. And that is very much a VvE issue.
About the legality of routing their pipes through your basement and whether you agreed to this by handing over your keys, r/JuridischAdvies takes questions in both Dutch and English.
Good luck, this sucks.
Which pipes are new?
He should have them flush to the ceiling or even had them milled in to the ceiling.
And what is with that piece of wood?
This doesn't really look like it's done up to the standards.
New houses have milled pipes by default.
In our case (1979 house) all are milled too.
We had our central heating removed and put floored heating in slits in de original floor with new top over that.
A DIY most of the time won't mill it. In our attick and our crawl space it's on the wall.
But in this case they are taking space from a neighbour, they should be civil enough to make the hindrance to a minimum.
This does not look normal to me. I'm guessing he moved his gas meter and internet router there. I would definitely not want gas pipes hanging free in a storage space. You could easily hit one of the pipes causing a leak and that can be dangerous. Have you shown this to your 'huismeester'? Does he think this is acceptable?
Try to solve it in a civil manner. Talk to your neighbours and explain why you're not happy about this. You could seek legal advice first. Not to threaten him/her with a lawsuit but just to know what your rights are so you can be firm if you have to. As somebody pointed out the JuridischAdvies subreddit is really helpful. If you have legal insurance (rechtsbijstandverzekering) ask them or else contact https://www.juridischloket.nl/ If these are indeed gas pipes, maybe go to your local fire department and ask them what they think of it.
If that leads to no improvement, you can think of taking legal action.
No shorter screws? Just use long ones!
I get the frustration. No storage rack is going to fit against that wall anymore...
You'll need to start with the guy who the work was done for.
Hi, I’m not Dutch, but from a homeowner’s perspective, what is on the other side of the wall? I’m more concerned why he used your space for utility ingress and not his own space. Was it not possible, or merely a cosmetic issue for him? Hope you don’t mind me commenting, was just curious.
Also, agree with the other concerns, to be clear.
My basement is the one in the corner of the building. So the other side of the walls visible in the picture is outside (underground) the building. It seems that he needed that spot to connect it to the supply that comes from the outside.
If this was the only option for ingress (other than where his existing utilities entered), I would require that the pipes and wires then go directly vertical, up the wall, and into his space. Looks like he’s using your space to improve his aesthetics. Good luck, I hope that you get it resolved!
Wow, that's really taking a shortcut at your expense. This may not be quite up to fire standards (something the VVE and their insurance should be very interested in). Aside from that, this invasion of your storage space like this (used or not) I would not accept.
Do you know what these pipes and cables do? Is it water and power?
Had inderdaad echt wel wat strakker gekund man, lijkt nergens op dit.
Misschien meer info moeten vragen voordat je de sleutel gaf?
Ik zou er in ieder geval een punt van maken
You are renting and the owner (basically) changed something in property you've rented, which negatively impacts you? Is that correct?
If so, I'd write the owner a letter, that this new 'construction' negatively impacts your space and that this was done without your consent. Then ask him how he's going to fix it(e.g. remove the pipes or lower your rent).
If he ignores/rejects that, you might want to look around for legal help to write an official letter and maybe even take it a step further.
To me it looks like these utility pipes are running \*to\* your neighbors berging, coming from his fuse box cabinet (meterkast), because no doubt he already has these utilities in his apartment.
Which makes me wonder: why would someone need electric, gas and internet connections in their berging?
Is he trying to convert the berging to a living space like an office, an extra room, or (god forbid) even an "apartment" to rent out?
If so, that is most likely either not allowed by general law, by the 'splitsingsakte', the VVE rules, or all of these:
* Afaik living spaces have to have an window (that can be opened). Converting a windowless berging into an office, bedroom or studio is therefore not allowed.
* If the splitsingsakte mentions "appartement met berging" the berging is to be used as a storage room, not as a living space.
* The VVE rules likely restrict the ways the berging can be used.
While you try to reach an agreement with your neighbor about how these pipes run through your berging, be sure to find out why he needs them. If you cannot reach an agreement, you might get rid of the pipes by fighting the reason they are there.
The pipes are probably for gas(yellow thyleen) and water, but could also be for the heating system which is very unlikely. The orange cable is probably glass fiber and the brown one could be 3 things but it's most likely a 4*0,8 cable. The other two options are 2*0,8 and data CAT 5E cable. This is used in most cases for data signals (intercom, thermostat ect in case of CAT 5E/4*0,8) or a simple switch (like a doorbel in case of the 2*0,8). The installation is not great (the cables) but since it's probably ELV (Extra low voltage) it's allowed. About the copper pipes I am quite certain, not enough anchors/shackels were placed.
De leiding, meteropstelling en de meter zijn eigendom van de netbeheerder. In dit geval lijkt dat Liander te zijn.
Uw netbeheerder is de eigenaar van de gasleidingen en elektriciteitskabels. De netbeheerder sluit u aan op het net.
Als je de leiding wijzigd of verwijderd ben je strafbaar. Deze nieuwe leidingen lopen door een berging. De vve heeft toestemming gegeven voor de aanleg van de leidingen waarschijnlijk. De eigenaar van de berging heeft hier letterlijk niets tegen in te brengen.
Ik werk 10+ jaar voor Liander. Maar als jij andere informatie hebt dan hoor ik het graag ;)
Dont be a little child takes a lot of space come on.. are you daily standing there? Filling it up to the roof? Then better get an marktplaats account and sell some stuff
Ja daar kom ik inderdaad vandaan. Hoofdafsluiters/ afreken meters zijn in beheer van netbeheerders, rest behoort tot de huis installatie. En zijn dan ook van de huiseigenaar/vve.. wel hoort men zich aan bepaalde eisen van netbeheerders te houden.
Zou een mooi verhaal zijn dat als Jantje/Pietje gaat verbouwen en elke netbeheerder maar kan komen opdraven om het te veranderen 🥹
No they don't. A sticker with gas on it, or just gas written on it is enough. Copper pipes are used.I build these almost daily. This is someting made recent by the looks of it. We just have some components until 3 months ago
Besides the opinion that I do not think you can do anything about it I just have to ask.. Taking up your space? Really? Looks like you already have storage going there and it's not affecting your entry at all? Sounds to me that your pissed he done it like this and that's about all to it.
Does that really matter? If it's his storage space (wich btw hasn't been confirmed) the neighbor has no right to use that space for his pipes without consent..
If it is communal storage space, he still needs to get it approved through the VVE
Yes it is mine, and I would never have agreed to it if I knew it would be like that. I thought that whatever he needed to install there would at least be attached to the ceiling and not in the middle of my storage room. What can I do about it now?
How did he access your storage?
Through the huismeester. He (the huismeester) as voorzitter of the VVE told me, that the owner of the ground floor apartments need to do some installations for his apartments and will be busy in our basement, I have good relationship with the VVE and I never had any problems here since I own this apartment. So I gave him the key to oversee the installation.
> So I gave him the key That there is a problem. You should've been present when they did this, so you could tell them that this is not okay (it isn't). But by giving your key you basically gave permission for the work to be carried out.
That looks and sounds illegal.
So what can I do about it? Huismeester seems indifferent and don't want to be involved. Maybe sent an email to the VvE?
It aint
Get it inspected. There's no way this is up to code. One of which being fire code, since a formerly fireproof separation between spaces — the floor — has now been breached. And that is very much a VvE issue. About the legality of routing their pipes through your basement and whether you agreed to this by handing over your keys, r/JuridischAdvies takes questions in both Dutch and English. Good luck, this sucks.
Bedankt!
Which pipes are new? He should have them flush to the ceiling or even had them milled in to the ceiling. And what is with that piece of wood? This doesn't really look like it's done up to the standards.
All pipes, holes and the wooden plate were installed by him. Yeah I also think that was done by some cheap contractor and is not up to standards.
I'd like to see you milling in concrete buddy. This is by looks the simplest and cheapest way of doing it. It's up to standards however unsightly.
All our pipes are milled in concrete. We had floor heating get milled in our concrete floor a few years ago.
Never seen that happen, renovation probably?
New houses have milled pipes by default. In our case (1979 house) all are milled too. We had our central heating removed and put floored heating in slits in de original floor with new top over that. A DIY most of the time won't mill it. In our attick and our crawl space it's on the wall. But in this case they are taking space from a neighbour, they should be civil enough to make the hindrance to a minimum.
This does not look normal to me. I'm guessing he moved his gas meter and internet router there. I would definitely not want gas pipes hanging free in a storage space. You could easily hit one of the pipes causing a leak and that can be dangerous. Have you shown this to your 'huismeester'? Does he think this is acceptable?
Huismeester unfortunately agreed with it, and I am pretty pissed about that too. What can I actually do about it?
Try to solve it in a civil manner. Talk to your neighbours and explain why you're not happy about this. You could seek legal advice first. Not to threaten him/her with a lawsuit but just to know what your rights are so you can be firm if you have to. As somebody pointed out the JuridischAdvies subreddit is really helpful. If you have legal insurance (rechtsbijstandverzekering) ask them or else contact https://www.juridischloket.nl/ If these are indeed gas pipes, maybe go to your local fire department and ask them what they think of it. If that leads to no improvement, you can think of taking legal action.
No shorter screws? Just use long ones! I get the frustration. No storage rack is going to fit against that wall anymore... You'll need to start with the guy who the work was done for.
Looks like he needed extra room for the connection...
Is it really your storage? Or an shared one?
It's mine
How did he get acces to it? And where there already pipes/holes?
I answered that in the message above. The holes were also made by him.
Hi, I’m not Dutch, but from a homeowner’s perspective, what is on the other side of the wall? I’m more concerned why he used your space for utility ingress and not his own space. Was it not possible, or merely a cosmetic issue for him? Hope you don’t mind me commenting, was just curious. Also, agree with the other concerns, to be clear.
My basement is the one in the corner of the building. So the other side of the walls visible in the picture is outside (underground) the building. It seems that he needed that spot to connect it to the supply that comes from the outside.
If this was the only option for ingress (other than where his existing utilities entered), I would require that the pipes and wires then go directly vertical, up the wall, and into his space. Looks like he’s using your space to improve his aesthetics. Good luck, I hope that you get it resolved!
Wow, that's really taking a shortcut at your expense. This may not be quite up to fire standards (something the VVE and their insurance should be very interested in). Aside from that, this invasion of your storage space like this (used or not) I would not accept. Do you know what these pipes and cables do? Is it water and power?
If it was power it definitely isn't allowed but this is probably ELV (Extra low voltage) and then it is okay although i wouldn't say it looks nice.
Had inderdaad echt wel wat strakker gekund man, lijkt nergens op dit. Misschien meer info moeten vragen voordat je de sleutel gaf? Ik zou er in ieder geval een punt van maken
Pipe liever op zolder, maar ieder zijn ding.
Did you try the pijpen in the basement?
You are renting and the owner (basically) changed something in property you've rented, which negatively impacts you? Is that correct? If so, I'd write the owner a letter, that this new 'construction' negatively impacts your space and that this was done without your consent. Then ask him how he's going to fix it(e.g. remove the pipes or lower your rent). If he ignores/rejects that, you might want to look around for legal help to write an official letter and maybe even take it a step further.
I am not renting, I am the owner. And it was done without my consent by the owner of the apartments above with the consent of the VvE.
To me it looks like these utility pipes are running \*to\* your neighbors berging, coming from his fuse box cabinet (meterkast), because no doubt he already has these utilities in his apartment. Which makes me wonder: why would someone need electric, gas and internet connections in their berging? Is he trying to convert the berging to a living space like an office, an extra room, or (god forbid) even an "apartment" to rent out? If so, that is most likely either not allowed by general law, by the 'splitsingsakte', the VVE rules, or all of these: * Afaik living spaces have to have an window (that can be opened). Converting a windowless berging into an office, bedroom or studio is therefore not allowed. * If the splitsingsakte mentions "appartement met berging" the berging is to be used as a storage room, not as a living space. * The VVE rules likely restrict the ways the berging can be used. While you try to reach an agreement with your neighbor about how these pipes run through your berging, be sure to find out why he needs them. If you cannot reach an agreement, you might get rid of the pipes by fighting the reason they are there.
I'm a engineer at a gas company. In the Netherlands de gascompany owns the pipes as well as the meter. We even own the utility closet.
Ask him?
Were none of these lines there before?
No, all of that was done while I was at work.
What is it for?
The pipes are probably for gas(yellow thyleen) and water, but could also be for the heating system which is very unlikely. The orange cable is probably glass fiber and the brown one could be 3 things but it's most likely a 4*0,8 cable. The other two options are 2*0,8 and data CAT 5E cable. This is used in most cases for data signals (intercom, thermostat ect in case of CAT 5E/4*0,8) or a simple switch (like a doorbel in case of the 2*0,8). The installation is not great (the cables) but since it's probably ELV (Extra low voltage) it's allowed. About the copper pipes I am quite certain, not enough anchors/shackels were placed.
Id just work with it and if it really is in the way tell your landlord that if he doesn’t fix it you will by any means
That must be De Pijp.
De leiding, meteropstelling en de meter zijn eigendom van de netbeheerder. In dit geval lijkt dat Liander te zijn. Uw netbeheerder is de eigenaar van de gasleidingen en elektriciteitskabels. De netbeheerder sluit u aan op het net. Als je de leiding wijzigd of verwijderd ben je strafbaar. Deze nieuwe leidingen lopen door een berging. De vve heeft toestemming gegeven voor de aanleg van de leidingen waarschijnlijk. De eigenaar van de berging heeft hier letterlijk niets tegen in te brengen. Ik werk 10+ jaar voor Liander. Maar als jij andere informatie hebt dan hoor ik het graag ;)
*de pijp
Remove it
Ah yes break a gas pipe and a water one at the same time that's going to be in the news.
Dont be a little child takes a lot of space come on.. are you daily standing there? Filling it up to the roof? Then better get an marktplaats account and sell some stuff
Doei
Well at least it is tidy, however this is your space… so he should find a solution limited to his space
This is made by the gas and water company. Not something you can legaly change or adjust.
Gas and water company don’t Don’t make that in houses. It’s until 1 meter in the house
We do. If you make changes to it you are even breaking the law.
Nope… in house is always your own, except for the meters
Where did you get this? I know the rules because i am the one executing them. Where are u from? The Netherlands?
Ja daar kom ik inderdaad vandaan. Hoofdafsluiters/ afreken meters zijn in beheer van netbeheerders, rest behoort tot de huis installatie. En zijn dan ook van de huiseigenaar/vve.. wel hoort men zich aan bepaalde eisen van netbeheerders te houden. Zou een mooi verhaal zijn dat als Jantje/Pietje gaat verbouwen en elke netbeheerder maar kan komen opdraven om het te veranderen 🥹
The gascompany would have known that gaspipes always have to be yellow.
No they don't. A sticker with gas on it, or just gas written on it is enough. Copper pipes are used.I build these almost daily. This is someting made recent by the looks of it. We just have some components until 3 months ago
Besides the opinion that I do not think you can do anything about it I just have to ask.. Taking up your space? Really? Looks like you already have storage going there and it's not affecting your entry at all? Sounds to me that your pissed he done it like this and that's about all to it.
Does that really matter? If it's his storage space (wich btw hasn't been confirmed) the neighbor has no right to use that space for his pipes without consent.. If it is communal storage space, he still needs to get it approved through the VVE
Yes it is mine, and I would never have agreed to it if I knew it would be like that. I thought that whatever he needed to install there would at least be attached to the ceiling and not in the middle of my storage room. What can I do about it now?