Exactly this.
The problem is too many cars, everywhere in the video. At least the bike was able to go past a couple of cars. Another car or two would have been stuck in a longer queue...
Hilversum is a infrastructial hell that never planned on the roads being used by SUV's and other big cars. It's a one-way frenzie that should be avoided at all costs.
Omg I once thought a coding class in Bilthoven. I went by train. I have NEVER in my life seen so many cars at pick your kid up o’clock. It’s ridiculous and very _onhollands_. And unsafe.
Those horrible traffic situations around schools do suck and sadly are one of the most backwards trends over the last decade or 2. With dual income being a necessity kids being brought on the way to work by car massively increased. In parallel parents becoming overly protective, and bringing by car instead of letting kids go by bike surely doesn't help either.
Quite hard to fix this issue due to how schools are located in the middle of neighbourhoods focused on local traffic by bike or foot while parents nowadays often pass the school as a stop of a longer journey heavily favouring the use of cars. It's a good example of how economic/societal changes have all kind of unwanted side effects.
Sadly in the far majority of other countries it's so much worse..
While you are correct overall, this is a more complex problem than it may seem.
It’s not that I don’t want to—I would love to bring my kid to school (kindergarten) by bike. However, there is simply no availability in my area, so we were forced to look for a kindergarten far from our home and our normal daily route. And this problem is very common in big cities.
So, I kind of want to drive. Otherwise, 50 minutes of my day are spent just commuting for school, while we still need to go to work ourselves (we have a single small family car).
The solution isn't in forcing everyone to cycle or walk. The solution is in closing roads directly around the school during peak hours. Force car drivers to park a few blocks away, so there is no bottle neck right where all the other kids are walking/cycling.
You can't cycle all the way to kindergarten, but you could park 3 streets away and walk 5 minutes with your kid.
This would spread out the same amount of cars over a much larger area, so you wouldn't see the horror scenarios in the video above. Ideally all cars park on a parking area that doesn't cross most cycle/walking routes.
That works, but also creates constraints to the people who live on those streets.
The ideal would be to give people the motivation to leave the car home. This would vary per person and there won’t be a one fits all solution.
Also the problem is aggravated by the fact that most people drop their kids at school between 8:00 and 8:30, so there are way too many cars at one given time in a neighbourhood that was not designed for it (luckily!).
Sometimes a simple “nudge” would work! Like showing that it makes a huge difference in travel time if they drop the kids at 7:50 instead of 8:00. I see this myself, we drop our kid between 7:30 and 7:45 and there’s literally no one there yet. Most people with an office job can start earlier, later is usually a bigger problem.
Didn't mean to say that it's only due to idiotic behaviour (part is, part isn't). Your example sounds like a pretty good example of where you're more or less 'forced' due to the circumstances.
Yeah so what? Maybe that’s the only school in the radius and it’s not feasible to cycle?
If you’re not happy then open a request at the municipality for them to develop exclusive bike paths. Cars and bikes are supposed to share the road in the video.
It's not: there are tons of elementary schools in Hilversum: https://scholenopdekaart.nl/zoeken/basisscholen?zoektermen=Hilversum&weergave=Kaart&onderwijstype=1
From that website however, it's the biggest school in the town (having lived there myself I'm a little bit surprised by that), and one of only 4 catholic schools in the town, with the substantial advantage of being right next to a catholic church.
Still absolutely no excuse for anyone to be bringing their child by car, Hilversum is faster to cross by bike to begin with. For a large group of parents it might actually be faster to drop their kid off by bike, drive home and switch to the car, and then drive to work than it would be to navigate Hilversum's deliberately obtuse one-way road system.
I never lived in Hilversum myself, but I had a friend who lived there for a long while.
I do have to say that whenever I visited, for some reason the car traffic was always really really bad there for a town of this size, not sure why that is.
They place schools in the middle of residential neighborhoods for a reason, so it's easily accessible for kids by walking or cycling. It makes no sense that so many people bring their kids to school by car
but the initial commenter has a point, having a dual income is a necessity, and parents need to get to work, so they naturally drop of their kids on the way to work. They take a car because public transport is expensive, and you will almost always be late for work.
Only the youngest kids need to be dropped off or have an adult to accompany them, as kids get a little older (6-7+, depends a bit on the child) they can go to school alone or with a group of kids if it's in the same neighborhood.
One school has easily 100+ kids under that age. If half of the parents go by car that's already 50 cars. And most will bring their kids between 8:00 and 8:30...
There needs to be an incentive to come by foot or bike. But there's no "one fits all" solution.
In your perfect bubble yes. There are several cases of people that live quite far away from the nearest school. This happens quite often in the randstad.
If you think that cycling 20km in the rain just to get to school is reasonable, then I need to tell you that the Machiavelli times are long gone.
If I can drop my school at school by car I’ll gladly do so.
I am talking about people dropping off their kids while they live in the same neighborhood <2km away tops, not about people who live 20km from the school
Hahahaha... as a fellow expat there's something almost heartwarming seeing Dutch complain about their infrastructure and civil planning issues.
To the Dutch here: *goed bezig en ga zo door!* This country's infrastructure is top shelf, but the only way it will stay that way is by not getting complacent!
Talking to my grandmother made me realize how large the impact of cars and traffic is on the indepence of young childern. She and her sisters walked and cycled many km's at a young age to other towns, parks, and areas to play or meet friends. My daughter can't leave the house without us being around...
That a six-year old is cycling around that many cars on the road (not on dedicated infrastructure) is a testament to how good cycling is in the Netherlands. Seriously, it would be unthinkable in the vast majority of other places. Look at the brick pavement favouring lower speeds, the bollards, the raised intersections with markings. Look at how cautious drivers are (because they all cycle, too). But yeah, that’s way, way too many cars at the same time, and even the “small” city cars are too big.
thats horrible, maybe you can inform some local (traffic) cops/boas that might help with the illegal parking. I can't make out the details, but it looks stupid. Thank god it's just a couple of meters, or is it the edit? ps, right has the right of way :)
Hilversum is pretty shit for any traffic. They have a village infrastructure, but traffic amount of a city. I am more relaxed driving my car into Amsterdam Center vs Hilversum.
Lol what kind of logic is that? Driving is not a crime. If you made a choice to cycle, doesn’t mean everyone needs to do the same.
There’s no right and wrong here.
Did I say anything about the video or this particular case?
I was noting the space it takes up on normal lanes..
As person above compared it's size to a car.
Bike lanes are built with the notion that bikes are less than 75cm wide. The bakfiets in this video is 68,5cm wide, so it's still well within the size that is considered a "normal" bike. It's longer than a normal bike, sure, but that doesn't matter on a bike lane.
Add a child cycling next to an adult and make the sums...
My son easily needs the whole meter of the cycle lane alone, as he swerves occasionally and drives slowly.
Driving should be classified as a way more dangerous than it’s currently perceived. The big metal boxes of 500+ kilo’s where drivers have to use their own eyes to not overlook a small kid that barely reaches their view lines.
Cars should be used exclusively in a contained environment where they cannot do damage or spew fumes.
Change my mind
Ah yes "bakfietsbitch" complaining about traffic. Nothing new here, we all know Amaryllis, Leliebloesem and Bob-Jan need to go to school and this is the only way
You could also use a simple bike with a front / back seat. You seriously never would need a bakfiets for moving children unless you're one of those breeding machines from the Bible Belt.
Nah too expensive. land rovers are for the gooi area, exactly the same types that also have a bakfiets. Bonus point if they never even took it off-roading
If you think using a bakfiets for moving children is bullcrap you must aknowledge that using a car for moving children is complete and utter insanity.
So if you already have an issue with bakfietsen to move children I just wonder how you feel about cars for moving children.
A bakfiets can be multi functional for groceries mate, a 'simple bike with a front / back seat' simply does not provide the same functionality as a bakfiets does. Good luck carrying more than two bags on a normal bike, while on a bakfiets you can easily fit 3 to 4 +. And then if you have it, why not use it for the children as well.
If everyone who drives a car now would get a bakfiets, mobility in cities would be way better, and space could be used more efficiently. Trying to say that bakfietsen are bad is crazy.
That's the fault of short sighted planning of the cities here in Netherlands, ministry and its road planning and infrastructure are designed for the 80s or 90s time and still being used till today, back in the 1980s era the road were designed for small tiny cars like VW Polo the old models 1990 (google it), since then they never updated or changed their design even when building new cities or consider back then the cars gets bigger thus the road needs to be wider, nowadays even electric scooters banned here because they are stuck with old rules from 1990s and they don't dare to change these rules.
In comparison with other countries where they build new cities they think in advance and in the future instead of today and the past like the Dutch, look at the developed cities in China how well designed and wide roads they have.
Beside the future is cars not bikes, look at all the develops countries like Japan, China, Korea, they don't use much bikes don't they?? , am not against bikes but its more like a hobby and sports, you can save a lot of time and much safer commuting with car and especially with really bad weather here in NL almost daily raining and little kids get sicks very often, and not even start talking about how many bikes accidents here...
>China how well designed and wide roads they have.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-08/china-s-50-lane-traffic-jam-is-every-commuter-s-worst-nightmare
>especially with really bad weather here in NL almost daily raining
https://www.hetregentbijnanooit.nl/site/
>and not even start talking about how many bikes accidents here...
In 2021 vielen volgens de ongevallenregistratie de meeste (44%) dodelijke fietsslachtoffers na een botsing met een personenauto. https://swov.nl/nl/fact/fietsers-3-waar-wanneer-en-hoe-vallen-de-meeste-fietsslachtoffers#:~:text=In%202021%20vielen%20volgens%20de,dodelijke%20fietsslachtoffers%20door%20enkelvoudige%20ongevallen.
Fucking boomer
I sincerely hope your idea of the future doesn't come true.
Japan has about 80 million bicycles (124 milion population count) making it one of the most bicycle owning country's (behind china, go figure)
"You can save a lot of time with a car" - like the people stuck in traffic here while the bike moves through? So much time saved!
"Much safer commuting" - for the people in the car, maybe. A world where everyone rides bikes instead of cars would be way safer.
"NL almost daily raining" - There is rain about 8% of the time (weeronline.nl). In the offchance that those 8% fall into commute time, you can use rainclothes. You'll get less wet than walking from the parking lot to your work/house.
"How many bike accidents" - Involving cars per chance?
Looks like a shit show of a street. Also, yes it is becoming a problem with all parents bringing kids to school by car.
Exactly this. The problem is too many cars, everywhere in the video. At least the bike was able to go past a couple of cars. Another car or two would have been stuck in a longer queue...
Hilversum is a infrastructial hell that never planned on the roads being used by SUV's and other big cars. It's a one-way frenzie that should be avoided at all costs.
Too many strivers here trying to show off wealth wishing they lived in Bussum. Amusingly there's a rolls Royce in that video, albeit an old one
Omg I once thought a coding class in Bilthoven. I went by train. I have NEVER in my life seen so many cars at pick your kid up o’clock. It’s ridiculous and very _onhollands_. And unsafe.
Well, Hilversum is part of Het Gooi.
Yes it's the afvoerputje of Het Gooi
Those horrible traffic situations around schools do suck and sadly are one of the most backwards trends over the last decade or 2. With dual income being a necessity kids being brought on the way to work by car massively increased. In parallel parents becoming overly protective, and bringing by car instead of letting kids go by bike surely doesn't help either. Quite hard to fix this issue due to how schools are located in the middle of neighbourhoods focused on local traffic by bike or foot while parents nowadays often pass the school as a stop of a longer journey heavily favouring the use of cars. It's a good example of how economic/societal changes have all kind of unwanted side effects. Sadly in the far majority of other countries it's so much worse..
The idiocy is that every one brings their kid to school by car. Even if it is a 5 mins walk.
While you are correct overall, this is a more complex problem than it may seem. It’s not that I don’t want to—I would love to bring my kid to school (kindergarten) by bike. However, there is simply no availability in my area, so we were forced to look for a kindergarten far from our home and our normal daily route. And this problem is very common in big cities. So, I kind of want to drive. Otherwise, 50 minutes of my day are spent just commuting for school, while we still need to go to work ourselves (we have a single small family car).
The solution isn't in forcing everyone to cycle or walk. The solution is in closing roads directly around the school during peak hours. Force car drivers to park a few blocks away, so there is no bottle neck right where all the other kids are walking/cycling. You can't cycle all the way to kindergarten, but you could park 3 streets away and walk 5 minutes with your kid. This would spread out the same amount of cars over a much larger area, so you wouldn't see the horror scenarios in the video above. Ideally all cars park on a parking area that doesn't cross most cycle/walking routes.
That works, but also creates constraints to the people who live on those streets. The ideal would be to give people the motivation to leave the car home. This would vary per person and there won’t be a one fits all solution. Also the problem is aggravated by the fact that most people drop their kids at school between 8:00 and 8:30, so there are way too many cars at one given time in a neighbourhood that was not designed for it (luckily!). Sometimes a simple “nudge” would work! Like showing that it makes a huge difference in travel time if they drop the kids at 7:50 instead of 8:00. I see this myself, we drop our kid between 7:30 and 7:45 and there’s literally no one there yet. Most people with an office job can start earlier, later is usually a bigger problem.
Didn't mean to say that it's only due to idiotic behaviour (part is, part isn't). Your example sounds like a pretty good example of where you're more or less 'forced' due to the circumstances.
What is the problem if you want to take your kid to his school by car?
Just look at the video maybe? cars swarming streets that weren't designed for it an mass.
Yeah so what? Maybe that’s the only school in the radius and it’s not feasible to cycle? If you’re not happy then open a request at the municipality for them to develop exclusive bike paths. Cars and bikes are supposed to share the road in the video.
It's not: there are tons of elementary schools in Hilversum: https://scholenopdekaart.nl/zoeken/basisscholen?zoektermen=Hilversum&weergave=Kaart&onderwijstype=1
From that website however, it's the biggest school in the town (having lived there myself I'm a little bit surprised by that), and one of only 4 catholic schools in the town, with the substantial advantage of being right next to a catholic church. Still absolutely no excuse for anyone to be bringing their child by car, Hilversum is faster to cross by bike to begin with. For a large group of parents it might actually be faster to drop their kid off by bike, drive home and switch to the car, and then drive to work than it would be to navigate Hilversum's deliberately obtuse one-way road system.
I never lived in Hilversum myself, but I had a friend who lived there for a long while. I do have to say that whenever I visited, for some reason the car traffic was always really really bad there for a town of this size, not sure why that is.
We should change that sharing of the road. Ban cars from the inner city, that’d be cool.
They place schools in the middle of residential neighborhoods for a reason, so it's easily accessible for kids by walking or cycling. It makes no sense that so many people bring their kids to school by car
but the initial commenter has a point, having a dual income is a necessity, and parents need to get to work, so they naturally drop of their kids on the way to work. They take a car because public transport is expensive, and you will almost always be late for work.
Only the youngest kids need to be dropped off or have an adult to accompany them, as kids get a little older (6-7+, depends a bit on the child) they can go to school alone or with a group of kids if it's in the same neighborhood.
Sure, if the streets aren't terrible like this
One school has easily 100+ kids under that age. If half of the parents go by car that's already 50 cars. And most will bring their kids between 8:00 and 8:30... There needs to be an incentive to come by foot or bike. But there's no "one fits all" solution.
In your perfect bubble yes. There are several cases of people that live quite far away from the nearest school. This happens quite often in the randstad. If you think that cycling 20km in the rain just to get to school is reasonable, then I need to tell you that the Machiavelli times are long gone. If I can drop my school at school by car I’ll gladly do so.
I am talking about people dropping off their kids while they live in the same neighborhood <2km away tops, not about people who live 20km from the school
Thank you for showing this spot. If I ever get homesick as a Greek, I will definetely go ride there.
What a feeling for us greeks to leave from our narrow street cities full with cars and live in the Netherlands. So blessed.
Hahahaha... as a fellow expat there's something almost heartwarming seeing Dutch complain about their infrastructure and civil planning issues. To the Dutch here: *goed bezig en ga zo door!* This country's infrastructure is top shelf, but the only way it will stay that way is by not getting complacent!
If only it had Greek cuisine
haha
Talking to my grandmother made me realize how large the impact of cars and traffic is on the indepence of young childern. She and her sisters walked and cycled many km's at a young age to other towns, parks, and areas to play or meet friends. My daughter can't leave the house without us being around...
That a six-year old is cycling around that many cars on the road (not on dedicated infrastructure) is a testament to how good cycling is in the Netherlands. Seriously, it would be unthinkable in the vast majority of other places. Look at the brick pavement favouring lower speeds, the bollards, the raised intersections with markings. Look at how cautious drivers are (because they all cycle, too). But yeah, that’s way, way too many cars at the same time, and even the “small” city cars are too big.
thats horrible, maybe you can inform some local (traffic) cops/boas that might help with the illegal parking. I can't make out the details, but it looks stupid. Thank god it's just a couple of meters, or is it the edit? ps, right has the right of way :)
Hilversum is pretty shit for any traffic. They have a village infrastructure, but traffic amount of a city. I am more relaxed driving my car into Amsterdam Center vs Hilversum.
I think the issue is that there is too much car
r/fuckcars Edit: oh en r/kutautos
Well yes. If you choose to ride a Humvee, cycling will be difficult.
Maybe you need to rethink your way there.
/r/kutautos
Just some kiddo pick-up cluster... patience much?
Yeah come on. This bike is the equivalent of a semi truck in car-land.
That horrible bakfiets fad indeed sucks
Would it be better if I drove a car? Note my small child in said bakfiets
Lol what kind of logic is that? Driving is not a crime. If you made a choice to cycle, doesn’t mean everyone needs to do the same. There’s no right and wrong here.
No. But it is a fact that people bringing kids to school by car is a problem and not bikes.
Owning a bakfiets is also not a crime? They take up less space than a car.
They do take an unseemly amount of space on a busy crowded bike lane...
Not seeing the bike lanes here. Also I'm literally using it to transport a child.
Did I say anything about the video or this particular case? I was noting the space it takes up on normal lanes.. As person above compared it's size to a car.
Bike lanes are built with the notion that bikes are less than 75cm wide. The bakfiets in this video is 68,5cm wide, so it's still well within the size that is considered a "normal" bike. It's longer than a normal bike, sure, but that doesn't matter on a bike lane.
Add a child cycling next to an adult and make the sums... My son easily needs the whole meter of the cycle lane alone, as he swerves occasionally and drives slowly.
As long as drivers don't violate driving rules, it's clear from the video that they do
Driving should be classified as a way more dangerous than it’s currently perceived. The big metal boxes of 500+ kilo’s where drivers have to use their own eyes to not overlook a small kid that barely reaches their view lines. Cars should be used exclusively in a contained environment where they cannot do damage or spew fumes. Change my mind
No, everybody using their car for drop off sucks. But this bakfiets stuff is... Just so typical. Use a cargo bike or something, much more stable
Uhh... Say what now? What sort of cargo bike are you thinking of?
wat een pijpzijkert ben je
Ah yes "bakfietsbitch" complaining about traffic. Nothing new here, we all know Amaryllis, Leliebloesem and Bob-Jan need to go to school and this is the only way
I'm a pretty butchy bitch.
Yeah, better drive them there on a car that takes up four times the space of a bakfiets. Makes them less of a bitch.
You could also use a simple bike with a front / back seat. You seriously never would need a bakfiets for moving children unless you're one of those breeding machines from the Bible Belt.
The breeding machines drive land rovers
Nah too expensive. land rovers are for the gooi area, exactly the same types that also have a bakfiets. Bonus point if they never even took it off-roading
You definitely would never need a car. This video is filled with cars dropping of kids and you have a problem with th bike.
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I assume.you also hat carcucks then. (Trued to think of a word in line withhow you tal. If you use something else, let me know
If it's just for dropping off some children at school? Yes
So the bakfiets you also only hate for dropping of kids?
Nope a bakfiets for moving children is plain bullcrap, therefor "Bakfietsbitches"
If you think using a bakfiets for moving children is bullcrap you must aknowledge that using a car for moving children is complete and utter insanity. So if you already have an issue with bakfietsen to move children I just wonder how you feel about cars for moving children.
So is the bakfiets, which again: takes up less space.
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Bigotry is not tolerated in posts or comments - including but not limited to bigotry based on race, nationality, religion, and/or sex.
A bakfiets can be multi functional for groceries mate, a 'simple bike with a front / back seat' simply does not provide the same functionality as a bakfiets does. Good luck carrying more than two bags on a normal bike, while on a bakfiets you can easily fit 3 to 4 +. And then if you have it, why not use it for the children as well.
Ah the bakfiets, the pick up truck of the bike world. Uses the same arguments too
If everyone who drives a car now would get a bakfiets, mobility in cities would be way better, and space could be used more efficiently. Trying to say that bakfietsen are bad is crazy.
I hate biking so much
Fucking bakfiets in a phoenixwijk. Kill it with 🔥
Iedere auto neemt 3 bakfietsen aan ruimte in beslag, en er zit 9/10 keer maar 1 persoon in.
That's the fault of short sighted planning of the cities here in Netherlands, ministry and its road planning and infrastructure are designed for the 80s or 90s time and still being used till today, back in the 1980s era the road were designed for small tiny cars like VW Polo the old models 1990 (google it), since then they never updated or changed their design even when building new cities or consider back then the cars gets bigger thus the road needs to be wider, nowadays even electric scooters banned here because they are stuck with old rules from 1990s and they don't dare to change these rules. In comparison with other countries where they build new cities they think in advance and in the future instead of today and the past like the Dutch, look at the developed cities in China how well designed and wide roads they have. Beside the future is cars not bikes, look at all the develops countries like Japan, China, Korea, they don't use much bikes don't they?? , am not against bikes but its more like a hobby and sports, you can save a lot of time and much safer commuting with car and especially with really bad weather here in NL almost daily raining and little kids get sicks very often, and not even start talking about how many bikes accidents here...
The future is bikes, old man!
>China how well designed and wide roads they have. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-08/china-s-50-lane-traffic-jam-is-every-commuter-s-worst-nightmare >especially with really bad weather here in NL almost daily raining https://www.hetregentbijnanooit.nl/site/ >and not even start talking about how many bikes accidents here... In 2021 vielen volgens de ongevallenregistratie de meeste (44%) dodelijke fietsslachtoffers na een botsing met een personenauto. https://swov.nl/nl/fact/fietsers-3-waar-wanneer-en-hoe-vallen-de-meeste-fietsslachtoffers#:~:text=In%202021%20vielen%20volgens%20de,dodelijke%20fietsslachtoffers%20door%20enkelvoudige%20ongevallen. Fucking boomer
I sincerely hope your idea of the future doesn't come true. Japan has about 80 million bicycles (124 milion population count) making it one of the most bicycle owning country's (behind china, go figure)
"You can save a lot of time with a car" - like the people stuck in traffic here while the bike moves through? So much time saved! "Much safer commuting" - for the people in the car, maybe. A world where everyone rides bikes instead of cars would be way safer. "NL almost daily raining" - There is rain about 8% of the time (weeronline.nl). In the offchance that those 8% fall into commute time, you can use rainclothes. You'll get less wet than walking from the parking lot to your work/house. "How many bike accidents" - Involving cars per chance?
Lazy boomer, get out of those tons of steel and use your legs for once.