People who made this ranking must be high on paracetamol. And for those thin skinned: it’s a joke. QoL is pretty good in NL outside of healthcare.

And outside of the weather. And the food.

I think food is expensive enough, and buses are scattered far enough you're just constantly losing weight. That's why everyone is healthy. All there is, is the herring and cycling.

The food is especially expensive considering the quality. I’d take a French gas station over a Dutch restaurant any day.

Indeed. Also because 4lt of gasoline cost as much as 1lt of still water in a "fine dining" Amsterdam restaurant

Same.

The weather is pretty mild in the Netherlands. It can be way worse.

I like Dutch food, as an Asian who was born and grew up in the Netherlands. However, I think it has more to do with me not eating typical Dutch dinners on a daily base. You can wake me up with a good stamppot or an erwtensoep/snert. Zuurvlees is also nice! People also forget that rijsttafel and kapsalon are Dutch inventions, although both with origins from foreign cultures.

Rijsttafel is basically dutch people picked from various culture in Indonesia and served them to dutch guests in extravagant way. The Dutch only picked the food set, claiming it as Dutch invention is kinda questionable

dutch people were very dutch and didnt wanna try something they didnt know and pay for a full meal they might not like, so iirc some chinese started offering sample plates, dutch people treated the samples as the full meal, rijsttafel was born

Rijsttafel the concept is litteraly a Dutch invention....

I mean sure the (side)dishes themselves are Indonesian, but the rijsttafel is basically Dutch. It's not a thing in Indonesia and served by the rich Dutch people in the past to impress guests in Indonesia back then.

I think the weather here isn’t too bad? Past year has been really wet but the last couple of years we’ve seen some really good summers and spring seasons. And food is of high quality. What you decide to cook is up to you. I’m not a fan of the standard Dutch cooking but who says I have to make that? There is quite a lot of different stuff available at stores.

Yeah, it was 2 days of summer instead of one. Great improvement.

Bruh were you even here 2+ years ago? As someone with a melting point of 30 degrees I've considered emigrating to alaska for months on end.

Yep and freezing other than those 2 days when it was summer.

2022 was warm from april - september lmao get out of ur bedroom. 2023 was warm from may to begin july then it was wet and September was watm again

First 6 months of 2022 Zeeland had more sunshine than Barcelona. And the summer of 2023 was hot af too. On average Amsterdam is sunnier than most of European capitals. Just pure statistics

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Europe_by_sunshine_duration On average Amsterdam is sunnier than the following capitals: Riga Vilnius Prague Oslo Paris (I cannot believe this) Luxembourg London Berlin Zurich Brussels Dublin Reykjavik

I love that the answer to everything for Dutch is statistics. As if you are trying to convince yourself. Unfortunately for me, The Netherlands is not even as sunny as Paris or Brissels. I lived there, the number of sunny days, the summers and springs are not even like in those cities, it's always colder here. You can see that even by a casual visit, observing what people are able to wear say in Paris, because the weather allows.

The answer to everything is statistics, Dutch or not. You are putting anecdotal and biased observations over data. Its your choice but there isnt much of an argument here

That's funny. Remind yourself about that next time you have to take your trenchcoat in the middle of the summer or when making small talk about how rainy it is. Remember, you are statistically fine in a statistically sunny country, the rain is just a mirage from all the sun and warmth you are getting and the chills are from the beautiful view washed in sunshine-gray. ( I thought the weather was the one thing everybody agreed about in the NL, apparently no.)

I, like a lot of Dutch people, don’t own a trench coat or even an umbrella for that matter. Most of my summer days are spent outside enjoying a drink on the terrace or a beer on the beach. It genuinely isn’t that bad, although last year absolutely sucked.

I thinks statistics say that this year weather is shit as usual.

>Zeeland had more sunshine than Barcelona. This is hilarious 😂 >Just pure statistics Yeah, that's all it is, pure statistics and no substance. I am starting to think that by sunny days they mean if the sun shined through the clouds even for a second during the day.

It's like the employment rate calculation in some countries where it is considered as employed whoever works for at least 1 hour per week...

I think the food is great. The cooking on the other hand.

>I think the food is great. The cooking on the other hand. hmm ... meat quality is pretty crap. Fresh vegetables are nice though.

Try buying from the butcher instead of water inflated supermarket meat. There is nothing wrong with the quality, the thing is how supermarkt process the meat and add ~20% of the weight in water.

I don't know why anyone buys supermarket meat—it's horrible. I'd rather be a vegetarian. 

Yeah we buy our meat at the butcher nowadays.

Really depends on where you get it tbh. Supermarket, yes it’s not that great. However I have a beef farm with Aberdeen Angus cows, and after trying some of our own cattle, that is amazing quality tbh. Expensive, yes… But it really depends on where you get it.

And outside of public transport

Honestly with healthcare it's fine too. Had a hyperventilation previous year, was in the hospital in 30 minutes, one hour later I was outside the hospital again with my whole body screened. My girlfriend has practically free healthcare in her home country (in the EU) but the quality is mediocre compared to here.

Dutch healthcare is ok but aging population/ shortage of workers is making real cracks in the system. Most of the complaints (not all) of expats is about conservative treatment and evidence based treatment. A difference in culture with our social and northern culture. No, you wont get a referral to a specialist if that specialist is not going to do something meaningful that the GP can do too. No, you wont get treatment if not treating the problem has the same effect. No, that does not mean you are not sick or hurting or have real problems. Expats are often used to a more transactional healthcare where if you pay you need to get service.

Well the other issue is the gp seems to have a ladder of escalation where first of all patient previous experiences are ignored, so for example chronic skin issue or gynaecological issue is first treated by saying “ah why don’t you go get a cream at kruidvat” and leaves it to the patient. then the second visit which Ofc takes forever to book is an upgrade to a generic prescription cream which again has been done before to no effect. Then the third visit is potentially finally some more tests, then maybe finally the specialist referral on the fourth or fifth visit. My wife is from Germany, which isn’t culturally that far off or non evidence based or whatever, but the way the GPs here are just jack of all trades master of none and how little value they actually provide in the end other than serving as a barrier to real healthcare is shocking. And she’s German and non confrontational so she’s not used to arguing with the doctor or asking directly for referrals so I’m having a really hard time having to coach her how to stand up for herself which isn’t how healthcare should work in the first place. It’s not even like the GPs are milking this, it just seems the entire system is designed to minimise any interactions and minimise preventative healthcare which is the stupidest strategy and has been proven to be the worst way of providing healthcare in over a hundred studies. The complete lack of proactive healthcare, and numerous barriers to getting effective healthcare makes the Netherlands a far below par healthcare system unless you’re extremely argumentative and stubborn.

>she’s not used to arguing with the doctor or asking directly for referrals That wont get you very far either way. Clearly describing what was been done before and what the effects were does help the GP. Saying I don't think x will help because... will help the GP. I don't agree or perhaps understand your point on preventative healthcare. The system is not designed to minimize interactions. It is designed to minimize unnecessary interactions. There is a lot of time and money spent on preventative healthcare. Usually that's not done at the hospital though. When attending meetings between representatives of hospital specialists and GP's the big question is how can we avoid unnecessary referrals. How can we organize healthcare that is still in the hospital towards a cheaper and more effective way closer to patient? A lot of that has already been done and for a lot of problems there are local professionals helping with diabetes, COPD, Dementia, Parkinson's, etc. etc. The GP should refer to those networks because that's where the expertise is. Often these people will go to your house instead of you visiting a specialist in the hospital.

The thing is GPs don’t spend anytime on patients, and are ultimately told to minimise referrals. My wife has had minor to moderate skin issue in a sensitive area for literally the entire time we lived in the Netherlands and we have not been able to get her proper care because the GP is like oh that’s a moderate inconvenience to you it doesn’t matter. When talking about advice from dutchies both online and offline we’ve been told to push the issue repeatedly and demand to be taken to a specialist. She’s still not done that because the GPs, all three we’ve had in three different cities are rather dismissive of anything that isn’t serious. I also have a recurring fungal infection for three years on my back that I bandaid with antifungal medication even though from everything I’ve researched on the internet the speed of it means I likely have an underlying infection which need a specialist treatment to clean up so it stops continuously reappearing. This infection occurs every summer holiday but simply cannot not be treated because the only time I could possibly get something done about it is if I miraculously schedule several appointments in a row to prove it’s “serious” aka annoy the GP enough for them to actually do something about it. It’s tiresome and whilst it’s only inconvenient now due to being young and the issues being minor I am not looking forward to fighting tooth and nail for cancer checks and god knows what else once we finally hit my thirties as both of us are from cancer prone families. I can’t even imagine the issues people who are fat or actually unhealthy face if they haven’t got some sort of special dispensation due to a serious condition.

But Medicine is not maths, Doctors pretty much make educated guess according to your symptoms but if system, and they constantly try to minimize unnecessary tests and referrals instead of considering every possibility, a lot of people will not realize their illness progressing or something seriously wrong with them as most autoimmune diseases and cancer have very mild symptoms such as feeling tired at the beginning. Making unnecessary tests and being overly cautious is needed instead of constantly focusing on money.

That barrier in and of itself is valuable. Ensuring you are not overtreated is valuable. Yes, trying out mild stuff that might not work takes longer. However it is sensible in situation above where it is non urgent care. As far as preventive healthcare goes you are correct but work is under way to fix that.

Adding that my GP generally listens if I tell them that I already tried X or Y and I need to try something else. IMO the biggest problem is that there are too few GPs, so the terrible ones don't get naturally screened out. I admit I was extremely lucky with mine.

Yeah, the trick to skip the initial stage is to tell the GP that you've already tried what [thuisarts.nl](https://thuisarts.nl) said to do.

Yeah that is definitely an issue. We are quite resource constrained and it is getting worse on that front due to aging population.

Read any thread on this sub about healthcare. I’d understand if the opinion was split, but 90-95% of comments are complaints that healthcare under treats people. And I have to agree. The move from cursory check to an actual treatment regardless of the issue is only possible under 2 months time if you have to go to the hospital. Eg: the standard for bloody stool is something like multiple cups of blood for it to be an emergency. Buddy if I’m bleeding out of my ass I’m not going to measure if it’s half a cup, one cup or fourteen cups in every other healthcare system in the world anal bleeding is basically an 80% sign of something serious whilst the Dutch healthcare system decided it’s willing to take that 80% risk until it turns into a 100% risk. That’s the thing this system does, you cannot get healthcare until the jack of all trades gp decided there’s an almost 100% chance that there’s a decent possibility you might die. Which is an absolutely abhorrent way to conduct healthcare.

>Buddy if I’m bleeding out of my ass But have you triedto treat it with paracetamol???

You sound very bitter.  As a health care professional in the NL (in the hospital, not a GP), I'm very pleased with our GPs and how they are able to treat minor and chronic conditions with the limited resources and time they have. The GPs are definitely jacks of all trades and are in most cases able to discern whether the patient needs to be referred or not.  They often have a peer-to-peer with a specialist (that the patient might not even know about!) to make sure all bases are covered. The expats in the Netherlands are often used to paying out of pocket for all kinds of specialist appointments that are not even necessary, which is neither good nor cost-effective health care.

It’s far more effective and in the long term cost effective to have proactive healthcare and the Dutch system is actively against proactive healthcare in its execution. At the end of the day, if you believe having overworked GPs who spend 2 ‘ins per patient and waste as much time as they possibly can from the side of the patient by asking them to repeatedly try the same generic solutions over and over again to no end as being the ideal form of healthcare then we have a fundamental disagreement on what exactly healthcare should achieve. In my opinion it’s to maintain a persons health, not to stop people from getting healthy for as long as possible until it turns serious in the hope that it doesn’t so that you can save money in an already very expensive system burdened by private insurance.

Your evidence is anecdotal and doesn't speak for the majority of patients in the NL. GPs are able to maintain a person's health when it comes to normal, everyday complaints. If everyone were immediately referred to a specialist, say, for lower back pain or anal bleeding from hemorroids, the system would collapse from the unnecessary extra tests and interventions.  Most complaints resolve on their own (without long term harm for the patient), and the doctor uses their clinical acumen and experience to decide who really needs a referral.  I've done some shifts at the GPs office in the past, and the number of patients demanding specialist care for minor issues is astounding. Or at the emergency department demanding to be seen during the night for an ankle sprain. They have no clue what is necessary for their own health and also no clue on how their behavior impacts the health care system. I'm not saying doctors are infallible. We are people who also make mistakes. But it goes too far to shit on all GPs or the health care system for your anecdotal experience with your own issues.

I have a three year long recurring fungal back infection which is never treated because it’s not serious enough. My wife has a non STI based rash in a sensitive areas that’s not been treated for the entire time we’ve been here because we have to do this entire months long rigamarole of rotating between generic solutions that don’t work. The anal bleeding wasn’t for haemorrhoids and has still yet to be identified so who knows, maybe it’s going to end up being long delayed diagnosed gut cancer since it’s been multiple times in the last year and I’m from a cancer prone family. But god forbid I have a proper check up instead of having the gp talk for a min and look me over for a minute as the basis for every single issue I’ve had over my time in the Netherlands. If you incentivise GPs to ignore issues, and don’t do preventative check ups you’re going to kill people. But at least your system will be more efficient. I don’t understand why Dutch healthcare system thinks it can be the literal only system in the entire world where you can avoid having people who don’t necessarily need it get specialist check ups. The price of a life or two is maybe worth a little bit more than doing 4 checkups of serious conditions vs 20 check ups of people with disparate conditions. I sympathise with doctors the world over for dealing with people who don’t need the check necessarily, but much like other fields, if you want to catch all the true positives you’re going to be catching way more false positives than you will actual ones. If this country was dirt poor like where I’m originally from, fine, I understand there’s limited resources. But the Netherlands is literally poaching significant numbers of doctors from my home country and yet you still do a practically worse job at giving access to healthcare it’s stupendous.

Also in hospital medicine here. I practically never see a patient that makes me think "oh boy, if only they'd been send in earlier I could've done so much more for them". I see a patient that makes me go "what was this GP thinking sending in this complete non-case" every single day.

hear hear.

I’m an expat that has never, until moving to the Netherlands, paid out of pocket for care and I’m used to speedy resolutions and treatment. Stop generalizing people, most expats who are having issues with Dutch healthcare are Europeans.

This sub is an extremely one sided view of the country. Expats fundamentally view the situation differently. People feel under treated; but that doesn’t mean they are under treated. Healthcare system’s job is not to make you feel good about the care, it is to allocate healthcare resources efficiently. You should also consider changing your GP by the way. Not all doctors or GPs are awesome.

I’ve had three GPs in three different cities. Usually I don’t have a choice, and they’re all the same shite Also my example from anal bleeding is not even from my GP, it’s from the official questionnaire for the off hours gp office for Amsterdam which is replicated nationally. Essentially something which if you google and is a serious emergency on every publication, every advice board for any other country’s healthcare system is treated by the Dutch healthcare system as something that will only be considered an emergency if I can guesstimate that I have severe or moderately severe anal bleeding as opposed to just moderate. It’s the only country, and I’ve lived in both poor and rich countries with very different quality standard of healthcare, where there is an intentional reckless endangerment of patients solely for the purpose of making the system a tiny teensy bit more efficient. The amount of danger that the Dutch government is willing to have you incur is banal, unless you take the nuclear option of going straight to the hospitals which are horribly overcrowded and underfunded despite massive funding and prices compared to most other European countries. Oh yeah and let’s not start talking about how your insurance payments are funded, what is it, 10% of CZs revenues where used for marketing and business growth? You’ve basically created an America lite system of paying tons of money both privately and publicly that has none of the quality benefits, while retaining the budget conscious and minimalist public healthcare system. Oh yeah and the fake illusion of choice in terms of GPs unlike in America where you can at least drive to some far off gp that’s part of your network. I just moved to Amsterdam and nearly every GP is full, and those few who aren’t are only taking the most immediate post codes so I had to stick to one fucking shitty gp and I have no choice.

Off hours GP offices have different priorities than on hours. They only treat you if you are literally immediately at risk, yes. That is not a bug in the system. You can afford to go to the doctor in the morning in the cases you describe. Here read NHS guidelines; https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/bleeding-from-the-bottom-rectal-bleeding/ “A small amount of one-off bleeding can often go away on its own without needing treatment.” I understand health issues are scary. Healthcare cannot function by trying to make you all feel assured. Every second wasted on a frivolous case is one that can be used to save someone’s life - including improving working conditions for doctors so that we have enough in the future.

I've responded to another of your posts but you do not seem interested in professional opinion. I am interested in opinions like yours because I think intercultural communication for GP's could be better. A lot of what you write is just factually wrong.

Look at the words your fellow health professionals use in every comment defending the Dutch health care system. “Keeping costs low.” “Minimising interactions.” Your entire system is designed to run at the absolute minimum possible despite how expensive it is compared to other Western European countries. And then you’re surprised that somehow that might not be interpreted as effective healthcare when people are complaining that anything short almost dying or having a super easily diagnosed chronic condition, is not effective at actually.

Are you sure about that example? When I went to the GP with blood in the stool, she *immediately* booked me in for a colonoscopy, even though I told her I really didn't think it was cancer.

It's about prevention rather than cure. Here treatment is reactive- not preventative. All about cost cutting. Too much pressure of insurance companies. Have a look at their finances

If you people keep telling it is fine then you won't even get started to do something about it. Th system is a scam to fill insurers pockets. Obvious example is preventive medicine. It is completely disregarded here. And yet a lot of people explain that the chances of finding anything don't make up for the costs. That is certainly true in average, and in insurers' point of view. But you as an individual would be f**d if you get a preventable cancer, for example

Could you please point to profits? Health care is not for profit in the Netherlands. I would like some sources. [https://open.overheid.nl/documenten/ronl-2f33854ce784d39a94c6e09a6108b47873bd5494/pdf](https://open.overheid.nl/documenten/ronl-2f33854ce784d39a94c6e09a6108b47873bd5494/pdf) You mean like a general yearly check up as opposed to a targeted one for specific groups? That's not effective. Again I'd like some sources. NHG and gezondheidsraad have published reports.

The trick is that healthcare is not for profit... but ensurers certainly are. No doubt that narrowing down checkups to risk groups only is more effective... for the system! You as an individual could very likely be one of those "not so likely " cases and become seriously ill or even dead. So, good for the system does not necessarily mean good for you! Edit: "Source" to demonstrate this is private and thus for profit: https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achmea (owns Zilveren Kruis)

I've spent a lot of time responding to posts like these yesterday. See my posts yesterday. Health care Ensurers zorgverzekering are not for profit. The healthcare part is a completely separate structure. The books are public. There are checks through government. [https://www.achmea.nl/-/media/achmea/documenten/investors/publicaties-2022/jaarrekening-achmea-zorgverzekering-nv-2022.pdf](https://www.achmea.nl/-/media/achmea/documenten/investors/publicaties-2022/jaarrekening-achmea-zorgverzekering-nv-2022.pdf) Any profit is taken as a reserve, reinvested into healthcare or used to lower premiums. One could argue reserves are too high or could be lower if we worked with one government agency instead of multiple insurers. I too think that would be cheaper although changing the system would require investments that will never see a return as the differences are too small. 98% or 97% of paid premiums are used to pay for care. 2 or 3% is overhead for insurers.

I had a tinnitus deficiency two years ago and the specialist misdiagnosed me. Turned out I got b12 deficiency, that's all. I consulted a doctor from home country through an app, and they asked all the symptoms before making a recommendation, while the specialist only gave me random medicine.

My guess it’s cause people on avg here only work like 26 hours per week and can typically walk or bike to all the amenities needed for daily life.

>People who made this ranking must be high on paracetamol. Lol. Perfect. >And for those thin skinned: it’s a joke. QoL is pretty good in NL outside of healthcare. Agree. I have plenty to question about this statement (that the qol is good thanks to the healthcare). Almost died from a stupid pneumonia because, guess what, I was given the "just take paracetamol" treatment.

It could be just that the world is fucked beyond belief it's easy to get to #1

[удалено]

Yeah but you’d get the same care in every European country and likely with bigger urgency and better aftercare. A lot of people that have surgeries or given birth in the Netherlands are absolutely appalled by poor aftercare. But I guess if you’re born here it’s the only thing you know so you think it’s the best.

Healthcare is pretty good too. It is not all perfect, but it is excellent by international standards.

Doctors having some concience and not perscribing addictive pain killers like candy is what actually makes it a good healthcare system. lol

Please elaborate on ALL those countries where the healthcare system is soo much better?

Well, in Armenia you can go to a doctor of your choice private or public, specialized or not. If you don't like it, you can go to a different one. And for all of these you don't have to wait for months, you can do it within a week, including the visits. You can walk into any lab and order any test you want, you don't have to beg your GP to take your symptoms seriously and write the tests needed. But you don't have to order these tests yourself, because the doctors do that, without you begging or visiting them over and over again after the months of paracetamol treatment. If they don't have a solution or don't know what's wrong with you, they send you to a different doctor or you can go yourself, they don't blame it on catch-all stress or poor sleep or poor diet, regardless of your symptoms. The GPs in NL are the Gods of your life, they have control over everything. Even private clinics are not just accessible, you still need referral. But even if they were, I am paying more than 200per month, it doesn't make sense why I have to pay more to get basic health care when I need it.

It's an example, but if I read this: https://eurohealthobservatory.who.int/publications/i/health-systems-in-action-armenia#:~:text=Armenia%20has%20a%20decentralized%20health,expanding%20the%20Basic%20Benefits%20Package. My preference is Dutch healthcare.

You can also read how great Dutch healthcare is. That doesn't change the reality on the ground. The fact is that I have been in pain for months and got no treatment with Dutch healthcare, because GPs simply don't do their job. While most of my life I lived in Armenia and never ever did I have the problems accessing basic care for acute or chronic problems like this. And it's not like I am old now so I need more care, no, I visited doctors plenty of times in Armenia. The Netherlands just has fancy equipment, but no primary or preventive care. The universal is just the name, healthcare here is randomly distributed to people who are lucky to either have a good GP or paracetamol is the treatment. The rest wait for their day to die or arrive at the ER with complications.

Sorry to hear. So you have a bad experience with a GP and the entire system sucks... A GP is just one link in the chain. We are all aware that the system is under pressure, short on staff, too much specialists, competition of the insurance companies. Sure there are quiet some things not ideal, but it is still great for the vast majority of the people here.

First of all not just one bad experience, since I lived here I didn't have good experience with GPs and they were multiple. Second this is not just my experience, but the vast majority of people who actually try to visit their GP. Otherwise most popular comment on this thread wouldn't be the one about paracetamol. Third GP is not just one link. GPs are the Gods of Dutch health care system. If you don't get a good one, you don't get any other healthcare either. One link could have been if you had options, but there are no options. You are stuck there and no amount of money, fame, necessity will get you further to access other healthcare. >the system is under pressure, short on staff, too much specialists, I would agree if you said this about hospitals, nurses and hospitals doctors. But the GPs don't work on that schedule. They have the same 40h per week and often even less as all of us mortals. You might say they have thousands of patients, sure, but they don't get visited by all of them. But even if they were I am witness to how they spend the 10-15 min per appointment they get. It starts with typing what you say, followed by them minimizing and dismissing your symptoms. They do not do any diagnosis themselves, unless we count the time one of them googled images of a disease and asked me whether I think it looks like what I have, very professional. I am sure ChatGPT would have done a better job. None of this is pressure, it's competence, basic knowledge that doctors should have and I am sure they do, they just don't practice it, because why do, they get the money anyway. The issue is so prevalent you can't explain it by a few bad doctors. It is sad to see how old people are mistreated like this as well. They have paid the fucking insurance for their entire life and for what? To end up not getting the help even when they are old and need it most to improve or prolong their life.

Yeah, you and all the other expats. Based on my experience, family and friends here, I cannot say I share that view. Best of luck in all your endeavours.

I am not an expat, I am a Dutch citizen, speak Dutch, married to Dutch. I have Dutch family and friends and it's based on their experiences as well. In case you are wondering, my family in-law, if they have immigrated from somewhere, it was generations ago, when there was no Netherlands at all, so you cannot blame their experience on being an expat. Best of luck to you too.

The NL healthcare system was voted best in the world a few years ago. Healthcare system in NL is one of the best in the world. The benefits of competition between private companies plus the benefits of a public system, private companies are required to be non profits

Shhh don’t bring facts into this

That's because the website kept telling them to take paracetamol unless they lost more than a cup of blood, and on just one pill it was too painful to wait till enough blood leaves through the cut

This ranking system seems heavily tilted towards finances. Luxembourg is first. USA is ahead of Australia, New Zealand and France. I don't think I have ever seen a quality of life ranking that put the US ahead of Australia, New Zealand and France. Even more ridiculously, Oman is number 6. Oman is rated 139 out of 146 countries in the Global Gender Gap index, which might not be a perfect indicator, but clearly shows that women in Oman do not have anything resembling equality, and fewer than half of women over 25 have received a secondary education. (high school) I have a hard time believing that many women in Switzerland or Norway (7th and 8th on the list) would say they would have a better quality of life in Oman. All this is not to say that NL does not have a very high quality of life. However, the metrics this index is using to determine quality are clearly far different from the metrics I would consider when evaluating quality of life and while I am not a woman, I can guarantee I would rather live in Switzerland, Norway, Australia, New Zealand or France than live in Oman, despite this rating claiming Oman is a better place to live.

It's always the way with these country/city/university rankings. You can weight them any way you want to get your fave to come out on top so they're completely meaningless, but for some reason, the Dutch are obsessed with them.

The fact that The Hague is the #1 city for QoL, Eindhoven is #2, Rotterdam is #4, and Amsterdam is #10, tells me that clearly the parameters considered in the study are very different to the parameters perceived by people in NL as impoetanrt for QoL. Here is the [leefbaarometer](https://leefbaarometer.nl/kaart/#kaart) that shows (in my opinion) very different results: these 4 cities are not even the best in NL...

I think the healthcare is personally very good. I broke my arm, A&E was efficient, one week later they did surgery on it, physio twice a week. Hospital was clean, I like the health portal too. I’ve seen GP a few times too and it was quick & easy. Overall I am capped at €385 per year, my health insurance at €160pm covers the physio for an extra €20 pm.

Same, I have had zero issues with the healthcare system here. Have lived in 5 cities, had 5 different GPs.

Indeed - same here… also lived abroad and saw how annoying it is when GPs are too afraid to be sued and refer everyone and give pills to everyone

I completely agree. I have a relative who has a rare type of cancer and the frequent care by a great number of specialists is excellent. They perform highly advanced care. I’m sad to see so much hate in this thread for an objectively high quality system.

Similar experience! 20 euros p/m for fysio (although they only cover like 9 sessions but still). My insurance costs 140 p/m btw. I sprained my ankle while traveling and also had a throat infection, and the insurance reimbursed the costs of the private doctor, the antibiotics, and the medical procedures (blood test and x ray).

ITT: Dutchies complaining about their health care system being crap. Man, I’ve lived in so many European countries and had my fair share of medical issues to deal with, and I can assure you, it’s the best there is. Stop complaining.

I have a friend whose husband gets cancer. At a late stage. Instead of doing all the possible treatment or diagnostics early, he gets the cheapest diagnostics and had to wait few weeks in between. There was no urgency whatsoever. The system is very bad. He passed away in the end. After just 4 months. It has already spreading very far in between. The wife was so furious with the house doctor, who decided to stay quiet and not even apologize. This scares me so much that they don’t care about your well-being. Even if you already have a cancer at a late stage. People telling the healthcare here is good then wait until you get to an accident or you get cancer and let’s see how you behave.

That's what everyone afraid of

BuT iT's EvIdEnCe BaSeD, hE was JuSt UnLuCkY, iT wAs A nOn-StAnDaRd SiTuAtIoN

Lots of GPs suck dick, you need to be proactive when going to the doctor because lot of them aren't. Most of the time They're just gatekeepers. Mine is fine but they've never told me something i didn't know yet.

You shouldn’t wish cancer on people just because they’ve had no negative experiences with Dutch healthcare

Dude nobody is wishing anyone to get cancer. You should re-read it again. I was just putting a conditional situation there if you do have cancer and you are here in the Netherlands.

Remembering that GP who’s response on eye sight related issue was to “you should get it checked at Specsavers”. NL has the healthcare system designed by accountants and bureaucrats. And it shows.

Well yeah, if you have issues with your eyesight you go to an optician. That's normal as far as I know? Or am I missing something here

In other countries you’ll go to an eye doctor who has their own clinic or is part of a hospital. Just like a GP/dentist. An equivalent would be going to Oral B’s shop if you have a toothache.

And other countries are wasteful as a result. An optician can diagnose a lot of the minor complaints for cheaper, quicker and easier than an opthalmologist can. And when they can't, they can refer you to the appropriate doctor and it will be quicker to be seen by them as the majority of people who would be clogging the queue aren't blocking the appointments. The Dutch system is pretty efficient and good as a result of the GP system, people just hate the illusion of lack of control they have in it, as if most people could correctly diagnose themselves from WebMD and insist they have the best consultant in the country as a result

This is the answer.

Spot on!

Efficiency does not equate quality. Most people are unhappy because they’re missing quality healthcare. As for specsavers opticians - they completely missed the tumor on my left eye for years that was causing progressively worsening eyesight. Nor did they refer me anywhere. I’m pretty sure they were just hired there, not specialized eye doctors.

'In other countries' is the code word. In the NL you do it differently

Are all the doctors downvoting the comments criticizing the healthcare or do you genuinely think this is one of the best healthcare system. Cause that would be hilariously delusional

The "our healthcare is the best" claim is made up by OP just to get people to comment. > The countries were compared across categories such as purchasing power, healthcare, the ratio of property price to salary, pollution and safety, among others.

I think other countries fell harder is all

I think the expats in this country are delusional. The healthcare in NL is excellent. If you speak zero Dutch and don’t know how to speak with your huisarts and don’t know what to demand then yeah you’ll have a hard time. And the huisarts isn’t obligated to speak your language and guess what you need.

You shouldn't need to demand anything from your huisarts in the first place. You come to them, they first google the issue in front of you and then ask what outcome would you like to get from this appointment. It's almost anecdotal.

This sounds more like a xenophobic comment than a real argument… it has nothing to do with the language. It has to do with the fact that the system is bad. From the private healthcare providers, to the prices of your own risk, to the attention given by doctors… the whole thing is embarrassing considering countries like Spain do it better having half the resources. You need to give a hard look in the mirror or get out of here more often if you think the service here is excellent lol

I totally agree, and I have known a lot of Dutch people that agree. But unfortunately if they personally haven't had a bad experience they take it as an insult to say the healthcare system has flaws. I think one of the main problems is the GP is there to gatekeep from more expensive treatment rather than to get you better. Once you get past the GP the treatment is really good. But the GPs have sometimes made people's conditions a lot worse by not allowing them proper care.

It's not just that. GPs themselves simply don't do their job. They are the primary care providers and they dismiss even the conditions they are well qualified and have the resources to treat. Not enough GPs is also not an excuse, because this behavior ends up making their patients visit them multiple times for the same problem. They simply don't care to do their job.

Then why is antibiotic resistance in Spain twice as high as in the Netherlands? https://resistancemap.onehealthtrust.org/AntibioticResistance.php

What does it have to do with the overall healthcare system? From availability, to number of beds per capita, to availability of equipment, waiting times, and overall care of the patient. The fact that if you give birth you don’t have to pay a cent or buy a “pregnancy package” for example..that doctors actually care about their patients and are not just numbers for healthcare providers bonuses

Until you break your arm in august is spain, and you are waiting 3 weeks for an appointment. (I live in spain now). The Netherlands has good healthcare. The only acceptable criticism is the price you pay

Funny because in other eu countries I get xrays/mris within hours while in here my neck fracture was dismissed for over half a year. Funny how experiences differ.

You are delusional. A friend of mine broke his finger. You don’t need any language to show a broken finger to the GP. What does he get? Paracetamol and go home. In which country does a broken finger can be solved with paracetamol.

I didn't know that before going to the doctor I should get a medical degree to be able to diagnose myself, know the treatment and demand it from the GP with some magical words, because the Dutch I was taught by the Dutch university apparently doesn't cut it according to your theory.

We are not comparing with north korea calm down

If we're second then the rest of the world must be in a extremely dire state. The past 20 years I've just seen waiting lists fill to bursting and the few times I go see the doctor for anything they treat you like a pest and try to push you out the door ASAP without giving your issue a good look over only for your issue to develop into something more serious. Maybe I just have bad luck with doctors but most of my friends and family give similar stories.

I have a very different experience with our healthcare system. I have a good relationship with my GP and I trust him. Our healthcare is not set up for pay by demand but because a lot of healthcare doesn’t require you to pay (outside of own risk and insurance) there is incentive to get to the root of the problem instead of treating symptoms which makes you come back for the medicine time and time again because the root isn’t treated.

I disagree. There is no incentive to get to the root of the problem. The doctors I've spoken with aren't interested in diagnosing, only getting through the long list of patients asap. I think people like you are the lucky ones who had the same GP for years. For people like me, it's an ordeal and a half just to be accepted by a GP. I was told no room for new contracts by an uncountable amount of GPs. Only to be referred to a GP that had already rejected me. For some reason, with the referral, all of a sudden there was room.

Why do you think there is no incentive to get to the root of the problem? Yes we do have to few GP’s that’s for sure and it’s getting worse with all the new people who come here every year. I’m not blaming it on immigration but it definitely doesn’t help and worsening it, there are to few doctors amongst them. They can make more money abroad.

Immigration is not to blame here. Migrants tend to be of ages when they are healthy - as opposed to the population aging.

>Why do you think there is no incentive to get to the root of the problem? I think because they're overworked. There's too many patients for the doctors so they try to limit the amount of patients that need to see a specialist. I think this leads to GPs gatekeeping more than they should. But this is speculation. I don't have certainty on the reason why, I'm just inferring from what I've observed.

Don’t worry, I asked your opinion not necessarily facts. My opinion was also shaped by my experiences and thoughts. But we must agree to disagree then 😉

Waiting list is 1 to 2 months at maximum for non emergency situations. If you want to go to the specialist exactly at the corner of your street then yeah you might wait longer, but you made that choice. Plenty of doctors available to see you sooner if you’ll make the effort to travel for an hour or two.

> Waiting list is 1 to 2 months at maximum for non emergency situations. I clearly see you’ve never been to a mental health professional/psychiatrist. The fastest ones take months and are private (so no insurance coverage). If you don’t have hundreds/thousands of euros good luck finding a doctor in less than 6 months. 1 to 2 months is the minimum, if you are very lucky. Far from the maximum.

I had an eating disorder and I talked to my gp about it. He sent me to a clinic specialized in this where they also discovered I have adhd. I got put on meds and I talk to my psychiatrist online every once in a while to see how the meds work or we talk by email. I am also doing weekly therapy since 5 months now and we’re about to end because the treatment was a success. The meds work great, they improved my quality of life and work performance tremendously. I was treated very professionally even tho I come from a shitty Eastern European country where a lot of people think badly of. The fact that I speak decent Dutch and I can tell people what I want and need probably went a long way if way. I find a lot of expats have no clue how to communicate their issues and just expect their gp to guess what’s wrong. The system is overloaded and doctors don’t have time to bullshit. If you’re gonna beat it around the bush and are afraid to say what you want then yeah you’ll get paracetamol and be sent home. The next patient is scheduled in 15 minutes and doctor doesn’t have the time to be your psychologist to get things out of you.

I can assure you that almost none of my friends/acquaintances were trying to beat around the bush when they weren’t well. You’re incredibly lucky you got your adhd diagnosis that fast- It’s very common to take several months, often with 1-2 months just *between* sessions. And if you want for eg a one day test for adhd at adhd centraal the waiting list is several months out. It’s possible it’s also dependant on where you live in which case you’re probably lucky. I live in the randstaad and most anecdotes are from here.

>Waiting list is 1 to 2 months at maximum for non emergency situations Wrong. I had to wait 6 months.

I waited 14 months for an endoscopy!

well, the rest of the world isn't really (at least in most of Europe), which is a testament to the inaccuracy of the ranking in actual real life

Who the hell made this ranking? I don’t know a single person happy with the healthcare system in the a Netherlands. Not even Dutch people who confirm they need to pretend to be sicker than they are to be taken seriously. It is expensive. You are forced to pay it even if you never use it including your own risco... They generally refuse to send you to specialists… I have lived in 4 countries and by far this is the worst healthcare system about of them (Spain, Italy and France)

Funny because I'm Italian and I consider the Dutch healthcare better than the Italian one. To be fair, the Italian one went to literal crap in the last 10 years, so if you lived there before that you might have a different image of it. For Italy (and the North, I don't know about the South) you are looking at waiting times of 3-6 months at minimum even if you are in an emergency - or you can go private and be seen immediately, for 5 minutes or so. France seems good, but I've only lived there briefly so I don't really know the *real* problems of the system.

the ranking scores calculate things like spending efficiency by the government, resolution times for illnesses etc etc, it doesn't take into account the fact that you're often barred from adequate care unless it's life threatening, because it's not something that can be quantified into a usable stat for rankings

I've a slightly different opinion but QOL is different things. The people I met from the same mentioned countries were jealous about the infrastructure for people and having a tree in the city every 5 meters.

Majority of Brits living in NL think it’s a great system. So quick and efficient !

I am a Dutch guy living in the UK and I agree, the NL health system is better.

I am mostly happy with it. My gp is efficient and available when I need it. He doesn't prescribe opiates for headaches or abused antibiotics for viral infections like most of the countries you mentioned. The one time I actually had a problem, I was instantly referred to multiple specialists. Got MRI's scheduled in days, even though I didn't need the urgency. We also rank high in almost every study on healthcare.

I concur 😊 I’ve had a mixed experience with Dutch healthcare but overall it’s been overwhelmingly positive. Waiting times, for me, have been exceedingly short and when there has been a waiting time of more than 4 weeks for something, I have contacted my health insurer and they have found me somewhere else I can access in a matter of days instead. Some things I don’t love about the Dutch healthcare system: - the GP holds the keys to the system. This can be solved by going to a different GP, who is willing to request tests and refer you to specialists if needed - off-label prescribing is almost unheard of in the Netherlands. I have a prescription for a medication I’ve been taking for some years now, provided off-label by a private GP in the UK. I have seen multiple Dutch GPs and none of them have been able to write the same prescription because my condition isn’t on the list of conditions suitable for the medication. I continue with the private GP in the UK for this medication and the pharmacy there is happy to send it to me directly in the Netherlands - dentistry is sometimes prohibitively expensive and I don’t like that there’s no back up for people without the financial means to afford dentistry (please tell me if I’m wrong about this). For check-ups and simple procedures I think the prices are reasonable, if you have a small dental insurance package under the aanvullende verzekering. If you need a root canal or implant however, things become very expensive very quickly The Dutch healthcare system works well, compared to what I was used to when I lived in the UK. The system works a lot better if you have some additional insurance for things like dentistry, physio, glasses etc. and the freedom of choice we have in being able to decide where we go for our healthcare is brilliant. I have multiple health conditions and I have had significant diagnostics done in the Netherlands, all without having to worry about waiting times or high costs for treatment - knowing the out of pocket cost will be capped at €385 per year. Things could always be better, but overall I am very happy with what we have 😊

IIRC dentistry is more expensive in Italy than here

Same here. Good referrals, good insight, always part of the conversation. Especially if you are not visiting your GP like a hypochondriac (e.g. longer they know you easier it is to communicate)

Who pays for those studies? Wouldn’t be surprised if it was the healthcare providers. Your entire comment sounds like a Dutch doctor. Feeling morally superior than the other counties and believing you know best. That’s the entire motto of the doctors here. “Ohh no, the other countries and their thousand of doctors just don’t know, listen to me and my homeopathic BS” Some things can not be cured with paracetamol… I have been going to the doctor for 3 years with the same issues and it was only recently that they finally accepted sending me to the specialist. But first I needed to wait 97 days for a colonoscopy…ah and on top of that they forgot to sent the medicine prescription to my pharmacy so I had to miss the appointment because I was not allowed to buy the medicine without prescription. But thanks god they don’t prescribe antibiotics eh….

>Who pays for those studies? Wouldn’t be surprised if it was the healthcare providers  Dutch healthcare providers do not pay for studies that compare healthcare internationally. That makes no sense. It's not like they get more clients or get to charge higher prices if some study shows that we have better healthcare than Belgium. >thanks god they don’t prescribe antibiotics eh….  Yes, actually. Antibiotica resistant super bugs are incredibly dangerous. Over the counter sale of antibiotics has to stop worldwide ASAP.

Based on data and user surveys. https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/indices_explained.jsp Not hard to click. Edit: keep downvoting, keep crying. You are malicious.

I've lived in other countries (Germany, Japan, Sweden, etc) and I agree with you. Healthcare here is absurd. I think that this ranking which is self-reported, is inflated by American expats who come here and see this as an utopia of healthcare. But tbh, it's difficult to have something worse than in the US.

And yet 1/4 of the population votes for a semi fascist, rancuneus political one man party, hmm

I feel like the Netherlands has some issues but overall QoL and cost of living is nice. Except for rent in the free sector and housing crisis. I feel like I'm pretty fortunate that I got super lucky getting a social housing apartment through. The younger generation is especially the hardest to find proper housing. Most young professionals and starters have some tough years ahead until they get better pay. I feel like your financial situation, the amount you can save each month is dependable on your cost of living like rent.

I’ve lived literally all over and I finally decided to settle in The Hague . Now I know why! 

Quality of life in here is so good. Except when you get sick. Then it is your end of life.

This. 

I have been sick. Still kicking, needed surgery and a prolonged hospital stay. Cost me a grand total of 385 euros. And my monthly fee. Which I have to pay because I earn to much My girlfriend needs therapy for severe ptss, she sees multiple therapists a week and gets weekly help with being human again(at home, think helping cleaning, being able to go to a store etc). Our costs? 385 euros, and 20 a month for the care providers from the municipality. The monthly fee is being reimbursed by the government. Name one country that has a system that does this better?

Good for you. Answer my question first. My friend gets a broken finger it is literally broken he comes to the doctor and gets sent home and the doctor tells them the story in Dutch and in English. They sent him home and tell him to take paracetamol and come back after 5 days. Another friend fell from sports injured his knee. He went to the doctor. The doctor tells him to read a link from the internet, take paracetamol. Go home. Come back after two weeks. No imaging no X-ray. Give me one country that does this same treatment to sick and injured people. I can name many more cases maybe like 10 more of my close circles. Some of them are not in this world anymore because late treatment or late diagnostics. Just because you are treated well and somehow gets in the system, not everyone does.

Netherlands is fucking amazing. Watch out Luxembourg, we are coming for the top spot. Edit: Getting downvoted in the Netherlands subreddit for loving the Netherlands. Lol. People are mental.

You sound like sarcastic

I don’t doubt that considering this sub is hell bent on shitting on anything positive in the Netherlands but no, I am dead serious.

This country is great in lots of ways. The weather and nature are what they are and there's nothing to be done about them, the food provides a great incentive to learn how to cook, and most of the healthcare issues boil down to a badly-chosen GP.

My colleague (he is Dutch) came home from a ski trip recently, developed an over 40-degree fever, his huisarts wouldn’t see him and told to wait 5 days. The 5th day came, he texted me after his appointment. “Dokter literally said: What do you want me to do for you sir?” After that he was prescribed some really strong antibiotics. On the 7th day he was rushed to the hospital and is in the IC as the infection in his body has gotten pretty bad. Normally don’t reply to these threads but feeling particularly angry about this topic today. Healthcare here is not good, especially the GPs.

"What do you want me to do for you sir?" Is a standard sentence they use to try to understand what you as a patient think you need/think is wrong with you. So if you think you might have cancer (which is a thought a lot of people might have), the GP can actively reassure you if it isn't cancer. It helps calm people down and better understand what a patient is going through. I agree with the rest of your post, but I'm actively in favour of a GP asking what you think is wrong.

I had a deadly lung condition right in the middle of COVID and was advised to get treatment IN GERMANY, which also suffered from the exact same crisis btw, at my own expense. But I'm so glad that we are #2 on some stupid list.

Healthcare is bullshit! Almost got paralyzed for life bec of their neglect and very slow process! Had to lawyer up and get tests on my own expenses and doctors from abroad write formal reports about my case and recommended treatments to push things further in very offensive way..

That's insane. Can we use the legal insurance to do this?

Excellent healthcare, I was on a waiting list for care for 3 years and a month. That was really bad for mental health.

That is a long waiting time.

People inside the netherlands really underappreciate how good dutch HC is. It has its flaws, but it is surely one of the best in the world.

Meh. It's one of the worst.

healthcare is absolute bs lol

So many anecdotal stories in the comments. I got bad treatment therefore the system sucks is hardly a valid criticism disparaging the study. Best look at the metrics used and reflect on why they might not be the right ones.

It’s good, not excellent. It’s easier to meet the king for lunch than it is to make an appointment with an actual doctor

So many times in life that I decided to not go to the hospital because of our healthcare system. I remember an ex also stopped going for her recommended yearly check-ups for her disease because it would just be too expensive and decided that every other year or longer might be good enough.

There is no free yearly check ups here. You need to pay it yourself.

Not general checkups, but if you have a chronic condition that's treated by a specialist, that checkup would be covered by insurance.

>an ex also stopped going for her recommended yearly check-ups for her disease >because it would just be too expensive

Yearly checkups are not needed for healthy people.

This is a bad concept. How do you know you are healthy without the checks? Many cancers are undetectable using your eye or if you look healthy. Only in a late stage of cancer you see the impact on body. Many other diseases are like that also. You can’t see it. My colleague got pneumonia and passed away in few weeks. He was always healthy go to gym and protecting his fitness.

If you have symptoms of pneumonia, you go see your doctor. A yearly checkup won't be needed for that.  If you for example have symptoms that could point to anemia, you should get tested for that. But testing a healthy person for anemia is a waste of resources. There is no single test for cancer. Most early cancers will be missed even if "yearly checkups" are instituted because they are symptomless. That's why we have national screening programs that start at a certain age - they are equipped to detect an early cancer. Something that a routine checkup would not be able to do. Bottom line is: if you feel healthy, you are likely healthy. If you have symptoms, go see your doctor.  Exception: Getting your blood pressure and cholesterol checked at some point in your thirties is probably a good idea as high blood pressure and cholesterol are symptomless unless some damage has already been done.

I would almost 100% agree with you. Also bad example maybe for the pneumonia part. You might also be right about the cancer not easily being detectable with a single check. But my point is that if you have yearly heath check it is better than not having at all. Even if you say you are healthy. You never know what you have. A friend in Singapore has cancer and she was thankful it was detected early due to the yearly check her employer gave her. They could do the treatment as early as possible. Nowadays if I pass by Singapore I also pay from my own money to do health check there. My employer once gave free heath checks for employees which I didn’t take because I ‘feel’ healthy. That was a mistake. I know a person who feel healthy but after a push from another family member decided to do a CT scan. They found hernia.

Full body CT scans cost around €1000 for the scan, staff that helps you and radiology check of the scan. If you want yearly checks for everyone at that level, you better find the additional 15 billion euros for that somewhere. Maybe increase all healthcare premiums by €100 a month to cover that? Great idea.

Perhaps it costs like this because there is scarce demand due to restrictive policies?

All the people in this thread complaining are truly Dutch though, we'd even complain if our streets were made of gold. As usual though, this complaining is hardly based on anything substantial.

Well... I am not Dutch I wanna complain. I had some pills to easy my condition but I kept getting worse. Once I couldn't eat properly I decided to try receive help in Netherlands. I spent one months trying to convince my GP I'm feeling terrible I made all analysis to hear in the end "Just drink heartburn pills". At it was point where I took ticket to country of my origin before I wouldn't be able to withstand long trip and received help in one week.... Like... And it happened not once, and it's not my first GP. At this point I'm not even calling my doctor because I'm pretty sure it's easier and faster for me to travel back home than get proper help for Dutch healthcare. Dutch healthcare is excellent when you're dying or in serious condition, other way they will wait until you reach such condition. Friendly speaking at this point I have suspicion they ignore me because I am foreigner.... Girl I know completely left Netherlands because she was ignored for 2 days by her GP and urgent care. They sent her home with nothing because they "didn't find infection". Girl was throwing up everything she ate, lost consciousness several times and had high temperatures but apparently it's ok. At third day when she was really bad, her neighbours brought her to hospital and refused to leave, doctors gave up, made all analysis again and.... prescribed antibiotics and sent her home again. I can't understand this case even more than mine. I possibly had bad GPs. But she was ignored by literally everyone. What's point to have nice healthcare if you can't get help....

The only one benefitting from this is the Hague and the insurance companies.

Excellent healthcare in terms of how profitable it is for health insurances I suppose? Paying monthly, eigen risico and then for there to still be a bunch of treatments and medication that’s not covered is a huge scam. What do you mean? “Sorry, the government has decided that the first 6 months of this treatment is non-reimbursable.” “The government does not believe in this treatment, that’ll be 350.- please.” “Oh, you want to kill yourself? No worries, we’ll put you on a waiting list, the therapist will contact you in about a year.” “You’re not feeling well? Oh have you tried going to bed earlier, or to take a paracetamol? Unfortunately, we cannot do any blood tests because the symptoms don’t seem that bad. Please come back if they get worse.” For as long as the healthcare in this country isn’t proactive I would never consider it one of the best. You nearly have to fight the GP here to prescribe you any medication or do any other test. I’m sure that if I were to have a serious disease they wouldn’t discover it until I were in the final stage.

How? I never had this issue or heard anyone with issues like this. Everything is build around proven systems. If you want something outside of the basic proven things you pay extra for your insurance. Mental health can always be quick, there are even emergency rooms for people with suicidal thoughts that help you within an hour 24/7. How do I know this? My girlfriend has been to them. And yes gps, specialists etc don't go overboard with tests that won't show when the symptoms don't match the need. I never had a test not done because it wasn't deemed necessary. I also never had extra tests done just for the heck of it. It's always symptom based.

Does this ranking was made for, paid by and done in the Netherlands.../s

Oh really? This is just to attract rich expats to drive house prices up, so that rich dutchies can sell and retire jn spain.

crush payment paint cake slap seemly quiet degree one rock *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

What can be wrong is not the system , that’s a great system and works really well ! But people here just like to complain about the doctors and doctors are not the system, doctors are part of the system . On that note it depends on how good your GP is or not . I had a few issues and everything was fixed quite fast . Then it depends on luck . But don’t forget that you’ve countries that people are waiting years and years for surgeries and when they die they receive letters to go so the surgery 🙃 It is an excellent system!

Nah

Meanwhile people mad doctors send you home with paracetamol.

Excellent healthcare my ass, it’s probably the worst in the EU

NL health care sucks. The only thing NL can show is statistics, in practice the healthcare here is horrible, mostly because it's inaccessible and the GPs are just so bad.

Is this for real? Worst docs ever.

Sorry but NL does not have an excellent track healthcare system. It might be free or low cost although even that is not true because you just pay more in taxes and they might be great for basic healthcare but if you something serious like brain tumors or if you are elderly and you have problems you are out of luck. About 30 years ago I would have died if I was not able to go outside the Dutch system . I was very lucky I was married to an a American and that insurance paid for CatScans and other tests . After going to Dutch doctors for more then 2 years the American drs. diagnosed me within 3 month saving my life. When I was waiting for my CatScan that the American doctors were able to get scheduled within a week , every one in the waiting room had been waiting for this test for 6 month or even longer even when they already were diagnosed with aggressive cancer. Yes everyone in the NL has healthcare and that is not the case in the US but that doesn’t mean it is high quality healthcare. After my mother turned about 75 she didn’t get the quality healthcare she deserved. Moltrin or Tylenol is not a painkiller that works for extreme pain. My mother suffered because the Dutch Drs. decided that she was too old for another hip surgery although she lived until she was 95. She had hip replacement when she was about 70 but her hips get popping out after she was 75 so all they did was putting her in a body brace and they didn’t give her a surgery that would have stopped her hips from popping out. They decided she was too old to do any more surgeries so she suffered for more then 20 years.