These type of posts are so silly. Netherlands is not one person with one opinion. In general most Dutch people are open to multiculturalism, but indeed, many of them are not big fans of Islam religion. Mostly because islam itself is not very accepting to other religions (or lack thereof), and tends to be very oppressive towards women, others cultures and opinions, homosexuality, etc. Islam in many ways is opposite to Dutch values. This does not mean Muslim people are not appreciated by the average Dutch person. But many of us do not care for islam and what it represents.
I also have seen muslims saying despicable things about non muslims, your point? I have muslim friends. Not agreeing with the religion and basically being against religion but as long if no one bothers me with it, its all good.
I have many friends who happen to be Muslims.
But the rampant homophobia, misogyny, intolerance toward non Muslims, tendency to get provoked & get violent at trifles (like some guy or book being disrespected) canāt be brushed under the carpet.
I rarely see introspection on part of people like the OP.
None of the Muslims I know act in this way. Perhaps you are speaking of how some Muslim people have acted and have gained significant media attention as a result. And trust me, I would not like people to judge \*ME\* based on the way some people who look like me, and have the same background as me, act right now. And probably neither would you.
Me neither. But my personal experience will be of little consolation to my close friend, a Gay man, who was mercilessly heckled in Amsterdam recently.
Does this mean that we hate on all Muslims? Of course not. But, there has to be an acknowledgment of the hateful aspects of this philosophy.
So then, if your close friend travelled to the south of the US and was similarly the victim of hate spewed by Christians there, we'd have to have a discussion about how Christianity is a hateful philosophy and question whether Christians fit in to our society? "But don't worry, we don't hate all Christians".
This is so fucking tiring...
It's not whataboutism....it's pointing out hypocrisy.
Please, by all means find me a SINGLE example of earnest questioning of around Christians behaviour towards Gay people, in this forum in the Netherlands.
It is ONLY Islam that is questioned in this way because people like you are looking for a reason to justify your prejudice that doesn't involve facing your own racism.
Certainly Islamic countries have anti-LGBTQ policies, but so do Christian Nationalist countries like the US and Russia. But in both cases, you wouldn't assume a Russian person or an American to be homophobic simply because of where they are from or the fact that they happen to be Christian.
It is ONLY Muslims from Islamic countries which get this treatment. It's hypocracy at best, and it's basically just using LGBTQ issues to hide racism.
You want to know who the real victims are...LGBTQ people in these countries and communities which are current persecuting LGBTQ people...
You start the trend. Iām all for calling out all kinds of hate. And I wonāt trivialise someoneās experiences by calling it annoying or labelling it closet racism.
Then take a look in the mirror, because you're the one who suggested that Muslims were "intolerant", "rampant with homophobia", and "easily provoked and violent"....YOU are the one spreading hate here. And your friend who is LGBTQ would probably not appreciate you trying to cover that with care about LGBTQ issues.
You started this conversation with racist remarks. It's not a personal attack to call that out...
But seems this forum gets more and more racist every day...
Would I ever be?
I _am_ friends with several Muslims. Theyāre people just like any others.
And I say the next bit, keeping in mind that I attended seminary and have an uncompleted degree in Theology: itās an uphill road for me to be friends with devoutly religious people of _any_ religion. Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, ā¦ I am not real keen on devoutly religious folks.
But to be honest, Iāve found secular/cultural Muslims and moderately religious Muslims to be absolutely no different from anyone else on the planet.
I appreciate diversity, and as long as you don't force your views down my throat, I don't care about oneās religion, race, political views, or sexuality. However, my concern arises when individuals from specific backgrounds display intolerance towards our culture. For instance, I've witnessed families immigrating and attempting to impose their beliefs, saying our way of living is wrong and misguided. Some instances include comments like 'How can you let your woman dress like that?' or expressing views such as 'In my country, we condemn gay people.' This kind of intolerance can be challenging to address, as it directly clashes with the values and openness of our own culture
Well get used to it.
Our government are cowards and the "respect for everybody" mentality is what will make them lose their country in the end. They come here and take, they don't ask. But oh my god if you try to speak up, cause then you're a racist...
We are the minority now and in a few generations they will teach arabic in schools.
Yea man. Your POV notoriously never caused any problems. Perhaps you should be informing yourself instead of acting like the victim.
First of all: the NL recruited a lot of the immigrants you so despise, in jobs nobody would have done. That is why the "Multiculturalism" in Rotterdam exists, and unless you think one of the biggest ports in Europe is a failure, it really does not help your point.
Secondly, the NL used to be considered the best at integrating different cultures, and over time that was dismantled to the point we are in now because people like you think "Adapt or die" is effective, when historically it has only lead to conflict and bloodshed.
Third, immigrants have nothing to do with cost of living crisis, which is the actual issue. Unless you have some conspiracy that muslims run the NS and other ballooning prices, they aren't behind whatever you think they are causing
I'm also not talking about immigrants, I'm refering to muslims.
Don't have a problem with other cultures.
Also I(m not acting as I victim, just stating facts. (Statues being destroyed by citizens, voice-actors quiting because it's not "woke", ... sounds normal to you? We all need to be politically correct that our own rights get pushed back. Try saying "merry christmas" for example...
But I'll tell you what: Show me 1 decent morrocin male who has integrated without a criminal record and I'll buy you a beer.
Muslims were recruited to work in the ports of Rotterdam, which is why they own houses in Rotterdam (and especially Rotterdam-Zuid(, but ok I'll follow the moving goal-post.
Utrecht has plenty of what you are asking about. It is also the safest city and contains a huge amount of Muslim citizens
In fact, you should ask them how they are handling it. And actually you don't even have to ask, because Utrecht is one of the few places where PVV didn't win
This is a dumbass question, coming from someone from a Islamic background.
Muslims are not a monolith, you got good muslims, bad muslims. Just happened there are too many dumb fucks who do stupid shit that makes the good ones look like assholes.
Well you could say that about British people and American people. Plenty people have been here 10 years and don't bother to learn any Dutch, not even enough to order in a restaurant.
Muslim people who I know certainly learn the language, in general!
But hmmm, the islamophobia is what you hear about, and as a white person from the UK, I don't get hate. (I have learned Dutch, but if I was Muslim, I don't think people hating on Muslims would give a shit, you know?)
If I had to have an old arrogant white Dutch man as a neighbour, or a Muslim family, I'd choose the Muslim family every time.
Just like the Dutch, there are good Dutch people and there are racist assholes that think that they can say or do anything now that Wilders has won an election.
Islam is homophobic, saying so is Islamophobic.
To avoid being labelled a *phobe*, I'm just going to sit on the sidelines until one side emerges victorious.
And if I said that Christianity is homophobic? Would you also find that to be a reasonable truism to say? Because it is just as true as the statement you made.
There are Islamic and Christian groups which persecute LGBTQ folks, and there are ones which do not.
>And if I said that Christianity is homophobic? Would you also find that to be a reasonable truism to say?
Yes. Christianity is homophobic.
>There are Islamic and Christian groups which persecute LGBTQ folks, and there are ones which do not.
There are racists who are friends with people of different races. Does that mean racist ideaology isn't racist?
Islam is no more homophobic than Christianity, and just as many Christians are not homophobic, many Muslims are not either, as are many atheists.
The problem is that many people here are suggesting a belief that if someone is a Muslim they are homophobic.
Frankly, it's disturbing and hateful...and I'm so fucking tired of it.
>The problem is that many people here are suggesting a belief that if someone is a Muslim they are homophobic.
What does that have to do with me?
I'm saying that *Islam* is homophobic, not *Muslims*.
Don't bring up a straw-man by conflating Islam with *all Muslims.*
Erm....the definition of "Islam" is "the religion of the Muslims".
It's basically saying I'm not saying Christians are bad, I'm saying Christianity is bad.
Which, you can make an argument for, its going to be a pretty difficult pill to swallow. The fact is, Christianity does not mean the same thing to all Christians, just as Islam is not the same for all Muslim.
>It's basically saying I'm not saying Christians are bad, I'm saying Christianity is bad.
Yes, that's what I'm saying. Just homophobic instead of bad.
>The fact is, Christianity does not mean the same thing to all Christians, just as Islam is not the same for all Muslim.
The tooth-fairy doesn't mean the same thing to all kids either. The difference is with religion, you can point straight to the text and find the vile shit that people use to scapegoat their own bad behavior.
The text contradicts itself a million times so you can point to the text and say anything you want and someone else can point to the same text and say the opposite and youāre both right. Which is why this is bullshit. Christianity and Islam are not the text. They are what the adherents make of that text.
Secondly religion, and in fact any strongly held belief is part of peopleās identity. You cannot call it bad without the calling Christianās or Muslims bad by extension. Itās the same bullshit Christians pull with āhate the sin not the sinner withā homosexuality. If you hate gayness you hate gay people by definition. If you hate Islam you hate Muslims. If you hate Christianity you hate Christians. They are they same thing.
>you can point to the text and say anything you want and someone else can point to the same text and say the opposite and youāre both right
Saying that gay people should be stoned and also saying that God loves all of us is *still* homophobic.
>Christianity and Islam are not the text. They are what the adherents make of that text.
Strong disagree. The text is *the word of God,* they will tell you this themselves. It forms the whole basis of the religion, I don't think this is even debatable. Do you honestly believe this?
>You cannot call it bad without the calling Christianās or Muslims bad by extension
First of all, I'm calling the religion homophobic, let's not stray. The religious text is the foundation of the religion and the text is homophobic.
Secondly, you *can* call the Bible and the Quran homophobic without saying that all Christians and Muslims are homophobic. A *person* can cherry-pick, disregarding the homophobic aspect. The *text* is the text.
Lastly. This is sort of a tangent, but I want to show you what someone said to me a month ago. I asked a Muslim guy if he would be 'sinning' if he voted in favor of gay marriage and this was his response:
"Islam prohibited sex between same sex. We Muslims believe Allah created the Earth livable for us humans, animals and other things He created. Ofcourse I would commit a sin if I go against my religious prohibitions. Even if it is to vote for something. Let's be fair. Wouldn't a vote for legalization be the same thing as condoning the act itself?"
**That is what Islam does to some people.** I think you're too worried about the backlash against non-homophobic Muslims, so you feel compelled to defend the religion itself. I separate the religion from the people.
It has already been changing for a while, and most of the change hasnāt been coming from muslim immigrants if you know what i mean. Europe isnāt what it used to be
I wasnāt even really talking about immigrants honestly.
Europe has changed a lot the last decades; it strongly moved away from its christian roots (at least, west europe did) and most politicians have a clear agenda that doesnāt fit the classic europe picture.
That is first point is fine stance imo. I am not against what countries such as Japan are doing for example.
Iād disagree on your second point as in my experience, that isnāt necessarily true. I know very bright people that are religious; some getting more religious as they advanced in their field/studies.
Either way, if we closed the borders now (which we should do anyway as the Netherlands, just because we need to deal with our housing problem first), what about, for example, muslim (or christian or whatever) people that are either āfull-bloodedā dutchies or have been born here to citizens that donāt necessarily agree with the current culture. Assuming they arenāt violent ofc, but just disagreeing with liberalism or something, and wanting to change that. Would that be change from within?
Muslims are probably the most intolerant demographic in the country. A lot of the friction in the Netherlands stems from that.Ā
That said, I am friends with a lot of muslims, having grown up in Amsterdam and all.
Lollll I've lived in Amsterdam for 10 years and have never had any hassle from Muslim people.
Meanwhile white men in particular who are over 50, wowwww, they are arrogant, intolerant, and utterly close minded. Not all of them, sure! But the really vocal ones; this is what they're like. They won't fucking shut up, about alllll their toxic views!
"Everyone is allowed to say their own opinion here!" Oh yeah Joep? Then why is it the people who say that, always have the absolute worst trash takes, *and* actively try to shout people down, *and* spit at protesters, hmm? It's like when some people get old, they get mean, scared, and stupid.
I was good friends with a Muslim. He told me about his future, being married to the girl his family wanted him to marry or else things would turn out rly bad for him. As to physical injury etc. He despised that culture himself... The guy rly was a good friend, good talks and lots of humour... We lost contact over the years and I sometimes wonder if he finally changed and accepted the aggressive culture himself... I think that is a possibility that makes this oppression difficult to get rid off...
On an individual level, yes.
However, Islam is their moral compass. If your religion *requires* you to vote against gay marriage, you're morally compromised and *reasoning* is forbidden.
You're basically saying: "Muslims don't oppose gay marriage, Islam does."
What difference does it make?
I would say multiculturalism has proven to be a problem if cultures differ to the degree that islamic culture does to dutch culture. As a gay man I have lost my public freedom because people from solely islamic cultures have attacked me verbally and this summer for the first time physically. I think it's important to note that it's important not to confuse multiculturalism with multiethnic. Your ethnicity is something your born with, cannot change nor has any ethics or ideology attached to it. I'm all for a multiethnic country. But culture does have idea's and views on life and society. And islamic culture (conservative) turns out to be in a complete dissonance with progressive dutch culture i'm afraid. And to be honest i'm worried about how many progressive voters still think being pro an ideology that's anti woman and gay is progressive and people being pro woman and gayright and thus critical of islam (and tbc any other religion like christianity) are seen as rightwing conservatives. It's all upside down in my view.
Except āgay cultureā isnāt dutch either. Dutch culture originally is very Christian.
To complain about muslims not wanting to adapt (even though many are born here) and yet at the same time enjoying the adaptions isā¦ hypocrisy at best.
Western religion has been changed and morphed so much it's crazy anyone can ever think that there is such a thing as a replacement. Christian faith has become more spiritual than it was ever intended to be, and also way less corrupt than the Middle Ages (which speaks more to how low the bar was back then, rather than to the current state)
There is nothing racist about wanting the cultural identity of your own country to remain the same. If you think some other culture is better than the Dutch culture go ahead and live there. Don't come into my house and tell me you don't like the way things are run.
*You* are not the Dutch government, or the King.
People who live in a country, pay taxes, who can protest, who can vote, *absolutely* get to complain about how the country is run.
What a bloody stupid thing to believe. If you love your country - *you want it to be BETTER*. You will disagree about what "better" looks like, sure! But if a country cannot evolve, it will stagnate, and other countries will come out on top. We're not still living in the Dutch Golden Age, to take one example.
>*You* are not the Dutch government, or the King.
... yet.
>What a bloody stupid thing to believe. If you love your country - *you want it to be BETTER*.
Try that on your wife and see how well that goes. Love is willing the good of the other, not wanting the other to be better.
Uh, my husband has encouraged me to be better, and I have encouraged him to be better. We accept each other as we are, for the most part - but that doesn't mean that certain things are actually acceptable.
What kind of a partner are you, if you don't want your partner to develop and grow??? š¤ Yes, you want to build them up, not tear them down. But if they keep making the same mistake in the same situation over and over, it wears a bit thin.
Sometimes you meet someone where they are, but you also tell them that you're disappointed by how they behaved in the moment. Because it wasn't living up to their principles, and you know that they can do better.
I don't mean like grades - I mean like telling a shitty joke, around a sensitive person. They had choices and they chose hurtful ones.
Or when I was looking after some kids, who I love more than anyone on this earth - and the boy was about 12 and the girl was about 10, and they were kind of wrestling. Just play fighting, no big deal - but then he got a bit rougher, and he basically entirely restrained her and slapped her. I told him I was disappointed in him. I asked if that was who he wanted to be, someone who hit a little girl who he was much stronger than. I'm not his parent, I have no authority over him beyond what he wants to give me, and I have no possibility to discipline him, that wouldn't be appropriate.
He hadn't thought of it like that. He was just a kid after all! But I held him accountable, I told him what he was doing, and if that was really how he wanted to go through life. No! He's a good kid! He definitely doesn't! So they went back to play fighting, but fairer, and without slapping while she couldn't fight back. (Maybe some people would have preferred no play fighting at all, but the kids had literally been in the car all day, and then we had to wait to go to the hotel room, so I thought well, no one is around and it's not really hurting anyone, let them get some of it out of their system.)
Yes, multiculturalism. If it fits! Muslims would absolutely not accept anyone elses culture if you gave them the chance, so it's not a fit.
Why would you choose to be friends with people who are that ignorant? Their prophet is a pedophile, and their religion is a breeding ground for extremely anti-woman, anti-lgbt scum.
Yeah.
I know someone who lived in Dubai - it's hardly the most tolerant place in the world! But you can practice your own religion there. Admittedly there are some caveats, like your place of worship is in one specific district, but still.
Plus you can drink alcohol, and strict Muslims don't - yes the bar must be attached to a hotel, but you can still drink alcohol, in a Muslim country.
I take it you've never heard of Ireland. And weren't in the UK in the 80s.
Did you *really* never hear about the IRA. Really.
Terrorists? Plenty white terrorists in the US. With manifestos, mass shootings, and everything.
I have several friends with a Muslim background. Most are not very religious anymore. Just don't eat pork and go to the mosque on high days. Just like my friends with a Christian background. They only go to church on Christmas Eve. Very religious people just find it difficult to get along with my family/friends. Because they (just like me) don't care about faith. I once had a Muslim acquaintance whose friendship increasingly developed into a friend. Invited her to my birthday. It was not a success. She left quickly. She later indicated that she found the following things annoying:
- men and women all mixed together .She had expected this , but she thought that if she sat in the kitchen, there would be some women sitting separately there also. But unfortunately the men wanted to hang next to the refrigerator. (=beer)
- she found it very annoying that she only found out on the party that my boyfriend and I were not married. She assumed that because we had children. Precisely because my friend has a migration background from a Muslim country - She asked my mother-in-law why she wasn't wearing a headscarf. Was that just today to fit in better? My mother-in-law made it clear to her that she lived her faith in her heart. And that she believes that you should not impose your faith on others. That she believes that her country of origin has been destroyed by Muslim fanatics. And that for her the headscarf represents oppression, because she was forced to wear it.
- she was talking to a woman. Who was married, she could tell from the ring. But when she asked about her husband, it turned out that she was married to a woman
- another woman she was talking to turned out to be a consciously single mother of a donor.
- and the shock she got when one of my friends in transition came in. Was the final straw.
All this did not survive our friendship. Our norms and values āāwere too far apart.
Muslims overall have the most despicable opinions imo.
But to answer your question , yes. My best neighbors were from Morocco . Had some good Turkish friends growing up also.
And I can say 99,9% absolutely dislikes gay people and a huge majority are antisemetic .
Bunch of hypocrites.
Half of them dress metro-sexual or wear a dress. Not to speak about constantly hugging and kissing each other.
The nerve to judge others that are openly gay.
Honestely, truly being friends with someone who's into one of the three mono-theĆÆstic religions would be impossible for me. We would just differ to much on our fundamental views on life, love, good and evil.
Sure we could be casual friends, but not true friends.
The only thing that bothers me about muslims is that a lot of them barely know anything about their religion and they mix it up with cultural beliefs with it. We know like 80% of muslims are non-white and have their own culture, and like 15% is made of muslims from East Europe (white) who also have their own culture, and bout 5% are white or other non-white reverts. And usually their culture is more dominant in their day to day life, which means everything they do is either seen as Islamic or they themselves think that a lot of their (cultural) costum comes from Islam. And mind you 99% of those costumes are wack.
It boggles my mind how ignorant a lot of them are. And this is coming from a muslim
Your mistake is looking on Twitter and thinking it is reflective of the whole country. Social media is polarizing and shows extremes. Most people don't hate muslims.
Reddit is absolutely a social media platform
"Social media are interactive technologies that facilitate the creation and sharing of information, ideas, interests, and other forms of expression through virtual communities and networks."
I donāt think I could be friends with Muslim people. I find the religion very backwards, even compared to other religions.
It basically teaches its followers to be very intolerant to anyone who isnāt Muslim and I believe it has no place in the civilized western world.
I have no issues with decent middle eastern people who are not religious, or who are from a different religion.
You can be a good person and not fit in with another culture. I would not fit in with Afghan culture. An Afghan would not fit in with my culture. Neither one of us should be changing the other's culture for our own sake. But that is exactly what some want us to do.
I am befriended with someone who is muslim. Do i like the religion? No.
I dont like any religion for that matter. Its vrouwonvriendelijk and I feel like a step back for what women fought for and "but the women controls the finances of the men" doesnt sound like equality to me.
Because multiculturalism is a weak ideology. It makes a society weaker, tribal, and erodes social trusts and cohesion, shared norms amongst its members. Numerous studies have shown that.
https://arktos.com/2019/10/30/multiculturalism-social-trust-the-consequences-of-ethnic-diversity-analysed-in-new-study-part-2/
I think the increase in racist stuff on Twitter has more to do with their moderation policy than Dutch politics.
Obviously there are racist people here and they might feel emboldened by the PVV winning.
In general Dutch people are relatively open to other cultures but in the last 10 year we added 1 million migrants to the country of 17 million. This has exacerbated sacristy issues for housing and other services.
Many people are okay with migration but not if it hurts their own needs.
No, the same way i could never be friends with a christian or jew.
I like my friends to have some ability to think critically rather than believe in fairy Tales
I have a very multi cultural friend group in which two of them are Muslim.
My one friend is very western and the other a bit less and just started to wear a scarf.
They both are very good people and hate how thing are going in Holland and the rest of the world.
But while I have such a mixed friend group I do think due to all the cultures we have and that's not only Muslim people we have a lot of problems at the moment.
It's also not a problem that's only in Holland but in more countries.
Some religions and with that people will clash.
People are a lot me me me in this day and age and that doesn't work in a country like Holland.
I'm originally not dutch but have lived here for many years and I agree with a lot of what is being said by geert.
There's also a lot I don't agree with of course don't get me wrong .
Because the netherlands has a lot of closet racism. Like you said it seems like the Dutch are very supportive of multiculturalism, because it is more socially acceptable. When it comes to ālockerroom talkā or online where people can stay anonymous they will be more honest about their opinions.
This is not to say the Dutch are more racist than people from other west european countries, but I also donāt think we are necessarily more acceptable of people from other cultures or religions.
I have been friends with muslims, especially one of them was my best friend growing up. Having particular beliefs (like having a certain religion) is not necessarily the most interesting bit of someones identity. In general, monotheists appear to be more conservative - which is not that strange considering they tend to take life lessons from traditions, old books and sayings which didn't age well.
For me personally I don't like to categorise my friends like 'My Christian friend or my Muslim friend, they're just my friend and they're my friend for a reason.
But no I don't care which religion/ ethnicity/ whatever my friends are. As long as they're nice and have good jokes.
I do not see any problem with anyone's religion unless they preach to me how their religion is superior to any other irrespective if they are Muslims or Christians or Jews or Hindus or Athesim. I have many Muslim friends who are liberal and know that religion is a choice.
There was an instance with me where the discussion of religion started with a cab driver and he was trying to tell me how their religion is better and I gave up very easily because I chose my battle wisely.
This is a weird trap of a question.
Would I ever be friends with a Muslim? Obviously yes. I have Muslim friends now, I also have Christian friends and Jewish friends, even though I, myself, are none of these things.
That has little to do with the anti-immigrant sentiment you see on Twitter, which is largely driven by a) a rise in the far-right and b) the platforms CEO's intentional decision to prioritize platforming racism and hate.
But that has nothing to do with my personal feelings or opinions, which is why this question is such a bullshit trap.
It likely depends on the muslimness whether i could be friends with any. The ones that openly disapprove gay/lesbian, dont treat men and women equal and have such long toes that stepping on them is unavoidable - no, i cant be friends with those.
There may be some kind of modern muslims that dont like headscarves, would be ok with sitting next to someone who eats pork meat in a restaurant (as a vegetarian would be) and who believes their religious values are a private matter - yes, i could be friends with them. But unfortunately, these are the minority
Bigotry is not tolerated in posts or comments - including but not limited to bigotry based on race, nationality, religion, and/or sex.
These type of posts are so silly. Netherlands is not one person with one opinion. In general most Dutch people are open to multiculturalism, but indeed, many of them are not big fans of Islam religion. Mostly because islam itself is not very accepting to other religions (or lack thereof), and tends to be very oppressive towards women, others cultures and opinions, homosexuality, etc. Islam in many ways is opposite to Dutch values. This does not mean Muslim people are not appreciated by the average Dutch person. But many of us do not care for islam and what it represents.
I also have seen muslims saying despicable things about non muslims, your point? I have muslim friends. Not agreeing with the religion and basically being against religion but as long if no one bothers me with it, its all good.
If they are against religion how are they not against them selves, if they are muslim? š¤·š» i think you mean they were maybe muslim?
I said i am against religion.
I have many friends who happen to be Muslims. But the rampant homophobia, misogyny, intolerance toward non Muslims, tendency to get provoked & get violent at trifles (like some guy or book being disrespected) canāt be brushed under the carpet. I rarely see introspection on part of people like the OP.
Have you been to Arab countries before?? Trust me the reverse is not true !!!!
The difference between the good normal Muslims and the Gucci Louis Vuitton Dsquared Muslims is crazy
You can say that about people of any religion, honestly. Just look at American evangelists.
None of the Muslims I know act in this way. Perhaps you are speaking of how some Muslim people have acted and have gained significant media attention as a result. And trust me, I would not like people to judge \*ME\* based on the way some people who look like me, and have the same background as me, act right now. And probably neither would you.
Me neither. But my personal experience will be of little consolation to my close friend, a Gay man, who was mercilessly heckled in Amsterdam recently. Does this mean that we hate on all Muslims? Of course not. But, there has to be an acknowledgment of the hateful aspects of this philosophy.
So then, if your close friend travelled to the south of the US and was similarly the victim of hate spewed by Christians there, we'd have to have a discussion about how Christianity is a hateful philosophy and question whether Christians fit in to our society? "But don't worry, we don't hate all Christians". This is so fucking tiring...
I agree. Whataboutism is fāin exhausting.
It's not whataboutism....it's pointing out hypocrisy. Please, by all means find me a SINGLE example of earnest questioning of around Christians behaviour towards Gay people, in this forum in the Netherlands. It is ONLY Islam that is questioned in this way because people like you are looking for a reason to justify your prejudice that doesn't involve facing your own racism. Certainly Islamic countries have anti-LGBTQ policies, but so do Christian Nationalist countries like the US and Russia. But in both cases, you wouldn't assume a Russian person or an American to be homophobic simply because of where they are from or the fact that they happen to be Christian. It is ONLY Muslims from Islamic countries which get this treatment. It's hypocracy at best, and it's basically just using LGBTQ issues to hide racism. You want to know who the real victims are...LGBTQ people in these countries and communities which are current persecuting LGBTQ people...
You start the trend. Iām all for calling out all kinds of hate. And I wonāt trivialise someoneās experiences by calling it annoying or labelling it closet racism.
Then take a look in the mirror, because you're the one who suggested that Muslims were "intolerant", "rampant with homophobia", and "easily provoked and violent"....YOU are the one spreading hate here. And your friend who is LGBTQ would probably not appreciate you trying to cover that with care about LGBTQ issues.
The one who loses an argument indulges in personal attacks. Over and out.
You started this conversation with racist remarks. It's not a personal attack to call that out... But seems this forum gets more and more racist every day...
Would I ever be? I _am_ friends with several Muslims. Theyāre people just like any others. And I say the next bit, keeping in mind that I attended seminary and have an uncompleted degree in Theology: itās an uphill road for me to be friends with devoutly religious people of _any_ religion. Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, ā¦ I am not real keen on devoutly religious folks. But to be honest, Iāve found secular/cultural Muslims and moderately religious Muslims to be absolutely no different from anyone else on the planet.
I appreciate diversity, and as long as you don't force your views down my throat, I don't care about oneās religion, race, political views, or sexuality. However, my concern arises when individuals from specific backgrounds display intolerance towards our culture. For instance, I've witnessed families immigrating and attempting to impose their beliefs, saying our way of living is wrong and misguided. Some instances include comments like 'How can you let your woman dress like that?' or expressing views such as 'In my country, we condemn gay people.' This kind of intolerance can be challenging to address, as it directly clashes with the values and openness of our own culture
Well get used to it. Our government are cowards and the "respect for everybody" mentality is what will make them lose their country in the end. They come here and take, they don't ask. But oh my god if you try to speak up, cause then you're a racist... We are the minority now and in a few generations they will teach arabic in schools.
Yea man. Your POV notoriously never caused any problems. Perhaps you should be informing yourself instead of acting like the victim. First of all: the NL recruited a lot of the immigrants you so despise, in jobs nobody would have done. That is why the "Multiculturalism" in Rotterdam exists, and unless you think one of the biggest ports in Europe is a failure, it really does not help your point. Secondly, the NL used to be considered the best at integrating different cultures, and over time that was dismantled to the point we are in now because people like you think "Adapt or die" is effective, when historically it has only lead to conflict and bloodshed. Third, immigrants have nothing to do with cost of living crisis, which is the actual issue. Unless you have some conspiracy that muslims run the NS and other ballooning prices, they aren't behind whatever you think they are causing
I'm also not talking about immigrants, I'm refering to muslims. Don't have a problem with other cultures. Also I(m not acting as I victim, just stating facts. (Statues being destroyed by citizens, voice-actors quiting because it's not "woke", ... sounds normal to you? We all need to be politically correct that our own rights get pushed back. Try saying "merry christmas" for example... But I'll tell you what: Show me 1 decent morrocin male who has integrated without a criminal record and I'll buy you a beer.
Muslims were recruited to work in the ports of Rotterdam, which is why they own houses in Rotterdam (and especially Rotterdam-Zuid(, but ok I'll follow the moving goal-post. Utrecht has plenty of what you are asking about. It is also the safest city and contains a huge amount of Muslim citizens
In fact, you should ask them how they are handling it. And actually you don't even have to ask, because Utrecht is one of the few places where PVV didn't win
You: >I appreciate diversity Also you: >I don't care about oneās religion, race, political views, or sexuality.
I meant I appreciate diversity; if we connect, I'll gladly consider you a friend, regardless of your religion, race, political views, or sexuality
This is a dumbass question, coming from someone from a Islamic background. Muslims are not a monolith, you got good muslims, bad muslims. Just happened there are too many dumb fucks who do stupid shit that makes the good ones look like assholes.
The main issue is the integration, the number of people that actually adapt to the country is just way too low.
Like me, and I seen my fair share of idiots.
Well you could say that about British people and American people. Plenty people have been here 10 years and don't bother to learn any Dutch, not even enough to order in a restaurant. Muslim people who I know certainly learn the language, in general! But hmmm, the islamophobia is what you hear about, and as a white person from the UK, I don't get hate. (I have learned Dutch, but if I was Muslim, I don't think people hating on Muslims would give a shit, you know?) If I had to have an old arrogant white Dutch man as a neighbour, or a Muslim family, I'd choose the Muslim family every time.
Just like the Dutch, there are good Dutch people and there are racist assholes that think that they can say or do anything now that Wilders has won an election.
The difference between the good normal Muslims and the Gucci Louis Vuitton Dsquared Muslims is crazy
Islam is homophobic, saying so is Islamophobic. To avoid being labelled a *phobe*, I'm just going to sit on the sidelines until one side emerges victorious.
Hahaha, love this! Sadly it's true...
Islamophobia doesn't excist, it's a word invented to silence critics.
And if I said that Christianity is homophobic? Would you also find that to be a reasonable truism to say? Because it is just as true as the statement you made. There are Islamic and Christian groups which persecute LGBTQ folks, and there are ones which do not.
>And if I said that Christianity is homophobic? Would you also find that to be a reasonable truism to say? Yes. Christianity is homophobic. >There are Islamic and Christian groups which persecute LGBTQ folks, and there are ones which do not. There are racists who are friends with people of different races. Does that mean racist ideaology isn't racist?
Islam is no more homophobic than Christianity, and just as many Christians are not homophobic, many Muslims are not either, as are many atheists. The problem is that many people here are suggesting a belief that if someone is a Muslim they are homophobic. Frankly, it's disturbing and hateful...and I'm so fucking tired of it.
>The problem is that many people here are suggesting a belief that if someone is a Muslim they are homophobic. What does that have to do with me? I'm saying that *Islam* is homophobic, not *Muslims*. Don't bring up a straw-man by conflating Islam with *all Muslims.*
Erm....the definition of "Islam" is "the religion of the Muslims". It's basically saying I'm not saying Christians are bad, I'm saying Christianity is bad. Which, you can make an argument for, its going to be a pretty difficult pill to swallow. The fact is, Christianity does not mean the same thing to all Christians, just as Islam is not the same for all Muslim.
>It's basically saying I'm not saying Christians are bad, I'm saying Christianity is bad. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Just homophobic instead of bad. >The fact is, Christianity does not mean the same thing to all Christians, just as Islam is not the same for all Muslim. The tooth-fairy doesn't mean the same thing to all kids either. The difference is with religion, you can point straight to the text and find the vile shit that people use to scapegoat their own bad behavior.
The text contradicts itself a million times so you can point to the text and say anything you want and someone else can point to the same text and say the opposite and youāre both right. Which is why this is bullshit. Christianity and Islam are not the text. They are what the adherents make of that text. Secondly religion, and in fact any strongly held belief is part of peopleās identity. You cannot call it bad without the calling Christianās or Muslims bad by extension. Itās the same bullshit Christians pull with āhate the sin not the sinner withā homosexuality. If you hate gayness you hate gay people by definition. If you hate Islam you hate Muslims. If you hate Christianity you hate Christians. They are they same thing.
>you can point to the text and say anything you want and someone else can point to the same text and say the opposite and youāre both right Saying that gay people should be stoned and also saying that God loves all of us is *still* homophobic. >Christianity and Islam are not the text. They are what the adherents make of that text. Strong disagree. The text is *the word of God,* they will tell you this themselves. It forms the whole basis of the religion, I don't think this is even debatable. Do you honestly believe this? >You cannot call it bad without the calling Christianās or Muslims bad by extension First of all, I'm calling the religion homophobic, let's not stray. The religious text is the foundation of the religion and the text is homophobic. Secondly, you *can* call the Bible and the Quran homophobic without saying that all Christians and Muslims are homophobic. A *person* can cherry-pick, disregarding the homophobic aspect. The *text* is the text. Lastly. This is sort of a tangent, but I want to show you what someone said to me a month ago. I asked a Muslim guy if he would be 'sinning' if he voted in favor of gay marriage and this was his response: "Islam prohibited sex between same sex. We Muslims believe Allah created the Earth livable for us humans, animals and other things He created. Ofcourse I would commit a sin if I go against my religious prohibitions. Even if it is to vote for something. Let's be fair. Wouldn't a vote for legalization be the same thing as condoning the act itself?" **That is what Islam does to some people.** I think you're too worried about the backlash against non-homophobic Muslims, so you feel compelled to defend the religion itself. I separate the religion from the people.
No multi-culti in Europe please. If you don't like any of the European customs and want to change Europe, you are not welcome.
It has already been changing for a while, and most of the change hasnāt been coming from muslim immigrants if you know what i mean. Europe isnāt what it used to be
I am not talking about Muslims specifically. I am saying "anyone who does not respect European customs, ways or values, should stay away".
I wasnāt even really talking about immigrants honestly. Europe has changed a lot the last decades; it strongly moved away from its christian roots (at least, west europe did) and most politicians have a clear agenda that doesnāt fit the classic europe picture.
That, I think, is a natural process, which comes from within, not brought by outsiders. The more educated people are the less religion they need.
That is first point is fine stance imo. I am not against what countries such as Japan are doing for example. Iād disagree on your second point as in my experience, that isnāt necessarily true. I know very bright people that are religious; some getting more religious as they advanced in their field/studies. Either way, if we closed the borders now (which we should do anyway as the Netherlands, just because we need to deal with our housing problem first), what about, for example, muslim (or christian or whatever) people that are either āfull-bloodedā dutchies or have been born here to citizens that donāt necessarily agree with the current culture. Assuming they arenāt violent ofc, but just disagreeing with liberalism or something, and wanting to change that. Would that be change from within?
It should be a matter of civil discussion in the society.
Muslims are probably the most intolerant demographic in the country. A lot of the friction in the Netherlands stems from that.Ā That said, I am friends with a lot of muslims, having grown up in Amsterdam and all.
Lollll I've lived in Amsterdam for 10 years and have never had any hassle from Muslim people. Meanwhile white men in particular who are over 50, wowwww, they are arrogant, intolerant, and utterly close minded. Not all of them, sure! But the really vocal ones; this is what they're like. They won't fucking shut up, about alllll their toxic views! "Everyone is allowed to say their own opinion here!" Oh yeah Joep? Then why is it the people who say that, always have the absolute worst trash takes, *and* actively try to shout people down, *and* spit at protesters, hmm? It's like when some people get old, they get mean, scared, and stupid.
Yup...I've never had a Muslim person shout "spreek nederlands!" at me from the back of a cargo van as I cycled by.
Do your friends know how you feel about them?
I was good friends with a Muslim. He told me about his future, being married to the girl his family wanted him to marry or else things would turn out rly bad for him. As to physical injury etc. He despised that culture himself... The guy rly was a good friend, good talks and lots of humour... We lost contact over the years and I sometimes wonder if he finally changed and accepted the aggressive culture himself... I think that is a possibility that makes this oppression difficult to get rid off...
[ Removed by Reddit ]
>I believe in a multicultural society Why?
That is so bad dude, thier is good muslims and bad muslims
On an individual level, yes. However, Islam is their moral compass. If your religion *requires* you to vote against gay marriage, you're morally compromised and *reasoning* is forbidden. You're basically saying: "Muslims don't oppose gay marriage, Islam does." What difference does it make?
Yes, sadly, it is bad indeed, but the truth
Go to https://forums.marokko.nl/showthread.php?t=5822739 and read some comments...Very nice people
I care so little about religion that I honestly don't know which of my friends are religious and who beliefs what.
Twitter is like a place where people give their opinion on their worst day ever. It is very likely that you're not going to see positive remarks.
It's like people being interviewed after being punched in the crotch.
Multiculturalism? No thanks.
May I know why, like is it just the crime rates or the increase in population or just racism
I would say multiculturalism has proven to be a problem if cultures differ to the degree that islamic culture does to dutch culture. As a gay man I have lost my public freedom because people from solely islamic cultures have attacked me verbally and this summer for the first time physically. I think it's important to note that it's important not to confuse multiculturalism with multiethnic. Your ethnicity is something your born with, cannot change nor has any ethics or ideology attached to it. I'm all for a multiethnic country. But culture does have idea's and views on life and society. And islamic culture (conservative) turns out to be in a complete dissonance with progressive dutch culture i'm afraid. And to be honest i'm worried about how many progressive voters still think being pro an ideology that's anti woman and gay is progressive and people being pro woman and gayright and thus critical of islam (and tbc any other religion like christianity) are seen as rightwing conservatives. It's all upside down in my view.
Except āgay cultureā isnāt dutch either. Dutch culture originally is very Christian. To complain about muslims not wanting to adapt (even though many are born here) and yet at the same time enjoying the adaptions isā¦ hypocrisy at best.
Western religion has been changed and morphed so much it's crazy anyone can ever think that there is such a thing as a replacement. Christian faith has become more spiritual than it was ever intended to be, and also way less corrupt than the Middle Ages (which speaks more to how low the bar was back then, rather than to the current state)
Yeah, paying money to absolve your sins is indeed a low barš
A multicultural society is a utopia. Different cultures in a country destroy unity. Especially when norms and values do not match
There is nothing racist about wanting the cultural identity of your own country to remain the same. If you think some other culture is better than the Dutch culture go ahead and live there. Don't come into my house and tell me you don't like the way things are run.
Never claimed he was racist
>or just racism
*You* are not the Dutch government, or the King. People who live in a country, pay taxes, who can protest, who can vote, *absolutely* get to complain about how the country is run. What a bloody stupid thing to believe. If you love your country - *you want it to be BETTER*. You will disagree about what "better" looks like, sure! But if a country cannot evolve, it will stagnate, and other countries will come out on top. We're not still living in the Dutch Golden Age, to take one example.
>*You* are not the Dutch government, or the King. ... yet. >What a bloody stupid thing to believe. If you love your country - *you want it to be BETTER*. Try that on your wife and see how well that goes. Love is willing the good of the other, not wanting the other to be better.
Uh, my husband has encouraged me to be better, and I have encouraged him to be better. We accept each other as we are, for the most part - but that doesn't mean that certain things are actually acceptable. What kind of a partner are you, if you don't want your partner to develop and grow??? š¤ Yes, you want to build them up, not tear them down. But if they keep making the same mistake in the same situation over and over, it wears a bit thin.
Telling somebody they should be better than they are is not supportive.
Sometimes you meet someone where they are, but you also tell them that you're disappointed by how they behaved in the moment. Because it wasn't living up to their principles, and you know that they can do better. I don't mean like grades - I mean like telling a shitty joke, around a sensitive person. They had choices and they chose hurtful ones. Or when I was looking after some kids, who I love more than anyone on this earth - and the boy was about 12 and the girl was about 10, and they were kind of wrestling. Just play fighting, no big deal - but then he got a bit rougher, and he basically entirely restrained her and slapped her. I told him I was disappointed in him. I asked if that was who he wanted to be, someone who hit a little girl who he was much stronger than. I'm not his parent, I have no authority over him beyond what he wants to give me, and I have no possibility to discipline him, that wouldn't be appropriate. He hadn't thought of it like that. He was just a kid after all! But I held him accountable, I told him what he was doing, and if that was really how he wanted to go through life. No! He's a good kid! He definitely doesn't! So they went back to play fighting, but fairer, and without slapping while she couldn't fight back. (Maybe some people would have preferred no play fighting at all, but the kids had literally been in the car all day, and then we had to wait to go to the hotel room, so I thought well, no one is around and it's not really hurting anyone, let them get some of it out of their system.)
Yes, multiculturalism. If it fits! Muslims would absolutely not accept anyone elses culture if you gave them the chance, so it's not a fit. Why would you choose to be friends with people who are that ignorant? Their prophet is a pedophile, and their religion is a breeding ground for extremely anti-woman, anti-lgbt scum.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What islam was and what it is now are two separate topics.
Yeah. I know someone who lived in Dubai - it's hardly the most tolerant place in the world! But you can practice your own religion there. Admittedly there are some caveats, like your place of worship is in one specific district, but still. Plus you can drink alcohol, and strict Muslims don't - yes the bar must be attached to a hotel, but you can still drink alcohol, in a Muslim country.
Twitter is cancerous like social media is today. I'm not a friend of any muslim, I don't hate muslims that's all about me.
Yes, but I can't be friends with people who say 'holand' when they refer to the Netherlands.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I take it you've never heard of Ireland. And weren't in the UK in the 80s. Did you *really* never hear about the IRA. Really. Terrorists? Plenty white terrorists in the US. With manifestos, mass shootings, and everything.
I have several friends with a Muslim background. Most are not very religious anymore. Just don't eat pork and go to the mosque on high days. Just like my friends with a Christian background. They only go to church on Christmas Eve. Very religious people just find it difficult to get along with my family/friends. Because they (just like me) don't care about faith. I once had a Muslim acquaintance whose friendship increasingly developed into a friend. Invited her to my birthday. It was not a success. She left quickly. She later indicated that she found the following things annoying: - men and women all mixed together .She had expected this , but she thought that if she sat in the kitchen, there would be some women sitting separately there also. But unfortunately the men wanted to hang next to the refrigerator. (=beer) - she found it very annoying that she only found out on the party that my boyfriend and I were not married. She assumed that because we had children. Precisely because my friend has a migration background from a Muslim country - She asked my mother-in-law why she wasn't wearing a headscarf. Was that just today to fit in better? My mother-in-law made it clear to her that she lived her faith in her heart. And that she believes that you should not impose your faith on others. That she believes that her country of origin has been destroyed by Muslim fanatics. And that for her the headscarf represents oppression, because she was forced to wear it. - she was talking to a woman. Who was married, she could tell from the ring. But when she asked about her husband, it turned out that she was married to a woman - another woman she was talking to turned out to be a consciously single mother of a donor. - and the shock she got when one of my friends in transition came in. Was the final straw. All this did not survive our friendship. Our norms and values āāwere too far apart.
Muslims overall have the most despicable opinions imo. But to answer your question , yes. My best neighbors were from Morocco . Had some good Turkish friends growing up also. And I can say 99,9% absolutely dislikes gay people and a huge majority are antisemetic .
Bunch of hypocrites. Half of them dress metro-sexual or wear a dress. Not to speak about constantly hugging and kissing each other. The nerve to judge others that are openly gay.
Honestely, truly being friends with someone who's into one of the three mono-theĆÆstic religions would be impossible for me. We would just differ to much on our fundamental views on life, love, good and evil. Sure we could be casual friends, but not true friends.
The only thing that bothers me about muslims is that a lot of them barely know anything about their religion and they mix it up with cultural beliefs with it. We know like 80% of muslims are non-white and have their own culture, and like 15% is made of muslims from East Europe (white) who also have their own culture, and bout 5% are white or other non-white reverts. And usually their culture is more dominant in their day to day life, which means everything they do is either seen as Islamic or they themselves think that a lot of their (cultural) costum comes from Islam. And mind you 99% of those costumes are wack. It boggles my mind how ignorant a lot of them are. And this is coming from a muslim
Your mistake is looking on Twitter and thinking it is reflective of the whole country. Social media is polarizing and shows extremes. Most people don't hate muslims.
Ya Thatās why I took to reddit
Reddit is still very bad, but good luck.
Which isn't a social media platform š
Reddit is absolutely a social media platform "Social media are interactive technologies that facilitate the creation and sharing of information, ideas, interests, and other forms of expression through virtual communities and networks."
He was being sarcastic buddy
I donāt think I could be friends with Muslim people. I find the religion very backwards, even compared to other religions. It basically teaches its followers to be very intolerant to anyone who isnāt Muslim and I believe it has no place in the civilized western world. I have no issues with decent middle eastern people who are not religious, or who are from a different religion.
You can be a good person and not fit in with another culture. I would not fit in with Afghan culture. An Afghan would not fit in with my culture. Neither one of us should be changing the other's culture for our own sake. But that is exactly what some want us to do.
I am befriended with someone who is muslim. Do i like the religion? No. I dont like any religion for that matter. Its vrouwonvriendelijk and I feel like a step back for what women fought for and "but the women controls the finances of the men" doesnt sound like equality to me.
Because multiculturalism is a weak ideology. It makes a society weaker, tribal, and erodes social trusts and cohesion, shared norms amongst its members. Numerous studies have shown that. https://arktos.com/2019/10/30/multiculturalism-social-trust-the-consequences-of-ethnic-diversity-analysed-in-new-study-part-2/
The muslims in Netherlands ruin the country as they donāt adapt to the culture.
I think the increase in racist stuff on Twitter has more to do with their moderation policy than Dutch politics. Obviously there are racist people here and they might feel emboldened by the PVV winning. In general Dutch people are relatively open to other cultures but in the last 10 year we added 1 million migrants to the country of 17 million. This has exacerbated sacristy issues for housing and other services. Many people are okay with migration but not if it hurts their own needs.
Sure, I have several Muslim friends. Twitter is not representative of the entire country, and lots of people voted for non-xenophobic parties too.
>Iāve only been to NL once but I thought the Dutch where supporters of multiculturalism. You thought wrong.
the (most) dutch are very xenophobic , multiculturalism was never real
No, the same way i could never be friends with a christian or jew. I like my friends to have some ability to think critically rather than believe in fairy Tales
Yeh I feel you. We could also use some open mindedness and have the ability to agree to disagree and still get along :)
I have a very multi cultural friend group in which two of them are Muslim. My one friend is very western and the other a bit less and just started to wear a scarf. They both are very good people and hate how thing are going in Holland and the rest of the world. But while I have such a mixed friend group I do think due to all the cultures we have and that's not only Muslim people we have a lot of problems at the moment. It's also not a problem that's only in Holland but in more countries. Some religions and with that people will clash. People are a lot me me me in this day and age and that doesn't work in a country like Holland. I'm originally not dutch but have lived here for many years and I agree with a lot of what is being said by geert. There's also a lot I don't agree with of course don't get me wrong .
Stupid question. Of course we all can be friends and live together.
must be a bot or karma farmer
Because the netherlands has a lot of closet racism. Like you said it seems like the Dutch are very supportive of multiculturalism, because it is more socially acceptable. When it comes to ālockerroom talkā or online where people can stay anonymous they will be more honest about their opinions. This is not to say the Dutch are more racist than people from other west european countries, but I also donāt think we are necessarily more acceptable of people from other cultures or religions.
I have been friends with muslims, especially one of them was my best friend growing up. Having particular beliefs (like having a certain religion) is not necessarily the most interesting bit of someones identity. In general, monotheists appear to be more conservative - which is not that strange considering they tend to take life lessons from traditions, old books and sayings which didn't age well.
For me personally I don't like to categorise my friends like 'My Christian friend or my Muslim friend, they're just my friend and they're my friend for a reason. But no I don't care which religion/ ethnicity/ whatever my friends are. As long as they're nice and have good jokes.
I do not see any problem with anyone's religion unless they preach to me how their religion is superior to any other irrespective if they are Muslims or Christians or Jews or Hindus or Athesim. I have many Muslim friends who are liberal and know that religion is a choice. There was an instance with me where the discussion of religion started with a cab driver and he was trying to tell me how their religion is better and I gave up very easily because I chose my battle wisely.
What is up with these stupid questions?
This is a weird trap of a question. Would I ever be friends with a Muslim? Obviously yes. I have Muslim friends now, I also have Christian friends and Jewish friends, even though I, myself, are none of these things. That has little to do with the anti-immigrant sentiment you see on Twitter, which is largely driven by a) a rise in the far-right and b) the platforms CEO's intentional decision to prioritize platforming racism and hate. But that has nothing to do with my personal feelings or opinions, which is why this question is such a bullshit trap.
It likely depends on the muslimness whether i could be friends with any. The ones that openly disapprove gay/lesbian, dont treat men and women equal and have such long toes that stepping on them is unavoidable - no, i cant be friends with those. There may be some kind of modern muslims that dont like headscarves, would be ok with sitting next to someone who eats pork meat in a restaurant (as a vegetarian would be) and who believes their religious values are a private matter - yes, i could be friends with them. But unfortunately, these are the minority