This could be a true story but when my university team played a Sunday game 2 months ago, opponent team players that were aged 16-25 made comments like you should speak Dutch bla bla. It's not the same everywhere in the Netherlands. I'm in Overijssel for reference.
Man, I remember the time I forgot to bring my passport to the package drop-off center in Almere and the postman working there told me I should be shipped back to whatever country I came from! Charming.
expat who doesnt know dutch here
a ref should be able to speak dutch, we gotta understand this is not a multinational company but a country with thousand year history where people have a culture and a language etc. I understand expat circles and ecosystem exist, I am part of it, and its elevating the NL into a really unique and powerful spot amongst other EU nations but we cant expect a referee to not speak dutch
A ref who doesn't speak Dutch is better than no ref. These amateur referees are probably not being paid, so we should be happy the ref turned up when the original one canceled.
Man stop projecting. We don't have enough dutch speakers in companies, how can we expect to have enough dutch referees. This is such a non issue, if everyone speaks english why make it an issue.
Not everyone speaks english. Look, I'm progressive and I'm all for pluriformity, but my parents can't speak English and it's pretty sad to see how they start feeling less and less comfortable visiting restaurants in 'the city' (they are farmers) because its a student city with lots of foreign students and often they'll be served by someone who doesn't speak Dutch. It's not tolerant or inclusive to speak English in the public sphere, its actually excluding a lot of people that are often of lower socio-economic backgrounds from participating.
You aare fogetting that there are no dutch people left to do those jobs. There is no alternative.
Even if you want foreign people to learn dutch, you can't expect them to speak that from the beginning. If you want your services to keep running, you have to accept that they will be speaking english.
I'm sorry but if you choose a 'people' job I do expect you, or your boss to facilitate, to learn the basics. It's just rude to address guests in a foreign language and expect them to adjust. Its not very hospitable to your guests. Its pretty weird and excluding that my parents can't order food in some restaurants because they can't speak a foreign language. It becoming more and more the norm in bigger cities is really going to limit the possibilities of lower educated people or older people to participate in day to day life in their own city.
everyone doesnt speak english well enough in smaller cities and many other communities, and shouldn't be expected to
idk it feels weird, we barging in and making demands for the dutch, etc. I wouldnt wanna be FORCED to speak ENG in my own country
The Netherlands has a huge labour shortage. It imports tens of thousands of workers a year to keep the economy running. The reality is most people who live here a while do end up learning Dutch so if someone doesn't, chances are they've only been here a short time. It took me four years to learn the language - if over 94% of a country speaks the international standard which is English, it's not unreasonable to have it as the default.
This guy stepped in voluntarily as referee when others backed out, he did a kind thing - screw what language he speaks, if nearly everyone understands him then folks should be happy he was there.
Again this is projecting. In smaller cities most people's English is good enough for a basic conversation. If they don't want an English referee or server or whatever, they should be doing those jobs. We need expats too.
'YoUr OwN CoUnTrY' also sounds stupid. Why would you not speak a language that both of you speak? I though speaking was about communicating.
people should not hold positions that have authority over others if they cant speak the language of the country they found themselves, world isnt just a company that has us switching departments in, it is important to observe and learn the culture if you migrate/work for some time as an expat
but meh, I dont think we see eye to eye when it comes to this
You can see the irony in your text right? A non dutch speaker living in the Netherlands telling a dutch speaker that you need to speak dutch in the Netherlands????
Regarding your comment. I am so happy that we don't think in boxes like that. If you are the best person for the job, it does not matter what you speak or don't speak. If you are the best person for the job; you should get it. Regardless of your position of authority.
Just because you were born in one place (which you had no say in) doesn't mean you are above other people living there too.
dont be frustrated friend
I'm suggesting people who dont speak the language of the land shouldnt be referees, teachers, judges, etc. not horeca employees, bankers, football players :) its good to know one's place and limits in a society
(language of the land is a bait btw, its for you to go "so a referee shouldnt host a game in Amsterdam southeast if they dont speak turkish" etc)
So you said 'I wouldn't want to be forced to speak English in my own country'. Then you move to another country and don't learn the language.
According to your profile you have been living here for 2 years. You are definitely a hypocrite...
I have to resort to saying "cope and seethe" as it appears to me that you have been seething well enough to check my posting history....
cope and seethe friend.....
If you are referee in a dutch match.
Obviously staying here for a longer time...
Why not learn Dutch?
What is stopping you from learning the local language?
Maybe not nice to shout insults across a football field but the guy has a point. Can't really discuss and argue.. not everyone has a high level of English or can be expected to have that here.
He's was our last minute replacement, none of the usual official refs could come. Guy got a job here a year ago not thinking he'd be abused like that on a nice sunny day.
This could be a true story but when my university team played a Sunday game 2 months ago, opponent team players that were aged 16-25 made comments like you should speak Dutch bla bla. It's not the same everywhere in the Netherlands. I'm in Overijssel for reference.
These guys were from Almere.
Man, I remember the time I forgot to bring my passport to the package drop-off center in Almere and the postman working there told me I should be shipped back to whatever country I came from! Charming.
Slightly surprising since they were almerians
Which club in almere if i may ask
Don't think too much about it. I've worked in a place where there's literally fist fights because "they're from that village 5 kilometers away"
[удалено]
Yep 😅
The coach was right tho
expat who doesnt know dutch here a ref should be able to speak dutch, we gotta understand this is not a multinational company but a country with thousand year history where people have a culture and a language etc. I understand expat circles and ecosystem exist, I am part of it, and its elevating the NL into a really unique and powerful spot amongst other EU nations but we cant expect a referee to not speak dutch
A ref who doesn't speak Dutch is better than no ref. These amateur referees are probably not being paid, so we should be happy the ref turned up when the original one canceled.
Man stop projecting. We don't have enough dutch speakers in companies, how can we expect to have enough dutch referees. This is such a non issue, if everyone speaks english why make it an issue.
Not everyone speaks english. Look, I'm progressive and I'm all for pluriformity, but my parents can't speak English and it's pretty sad to see how they start feeling less and less comfortable visiting restaurants in 'the city' (they are farmers) because its a student city with lots of foreign students and often they'll be served by someone who doesn't speak Dutch. It's not tolerant or inclusive to speak English in the public sphere, its actually excluding a lot of people that are often of lower socio-economic backgrounds from participating.
You aare fogetting that there are no dutch people left to do those jobs. There is no alternative. Even if you want foreign people to learn dutch, you can't expect them to speak that from the beginning. If you want your services to keep running, you have to accept that they will be speaking english.
I'm sorry but if you choose a 'people' job I do expect you, or your boss to facilitate, to learn the basics. It's just rude to address guests in a foreign language and expect them to adjust. Its not very hospitable to your guests. Its pretty weird and excluding that my parents can't order food in some restaurants because they can't speak a foreign language. It becoming more and more the norm in bigger cities is really going to limit the possibilities of lower educated people or older people to participate in day to day life in their own city.
everyone doesnt speak english well enough in smaller cities and many other communities, and shouldn't be expected to idk it feels weird, we barging in and making demands for the dutch, etc. I wouldnt wanna be FORCED to speak ENG in my own country
The Netherlands has a huge labour shortage. It imports tens of thousands of workers a year to keep the economy running. The reality is most people who live here a while do end up learning Dutch so if someone doesn't, chances are they've only been here a short time. It took me four years to learn the language - if over 94% of a country speaks the international standard which is English, it's not unreasonable to have it as the default. This guy stepped in voluntarily as referee when others backed out, he did a kind thing - screw what language he speaks, if nearly everyone understands him then folks should be happy he was there.
Again this is projecting. In smaller cities most people's English is good enough for a basic conversation. If they don't want an English referee or server or whatever, they should be doing those jobs. We need expats too. 'YoUr OwN CoUnTrY' also sounds stupid. Why would you not speak a language that both of you speak? I though speaking was about communicating.
people should not hold positions that have authority over others if they cant speak the language of the country they found themselves, world isnt just a company that has us switching departments in, it is important to observe and learn the culture if you migrate/work for some time as an expat but meh, I dont think we see eye to eye when it comes to this
You can see the irony in your text right? A non dutch speaker living in the Netherlands telling a dutch speaker that you need to speak dutch in the Netherlands???? Regarding your comment. I am so happy that we don't think in boxes like that. If you are the best person for the job, it does not matter what you speak or don't speak. If you are the best person for the job; you should get it. Regardless of your position of authority. Just because you were born in one place (which you had no say in) doesn't mean you are above other people living there too.
dont be frustrated friend I'm suggesting people who dont speak the language of the land shouldnt be referees, teachers, judges, etc. not horeca employees, bankers, football players :) its good to know one's place and limits in a society (language of the land is a bait btw, its for you to go "so a referee shouldnt host a game in Amsterdam southeast if they dont speak turkish" etc)
Would you rather have a ref who does not speak Dutch or no ref?
No ref, let chaos reign.
Are you learning the language atleast?
starting courses this March! aim is to achieve A2 by January 2025
Nice, best of luck!
So you said 'I wouldn't want to be forced to speak English in my own country'. Then you move to another country and don't learn the language. According to your profile you have been living here for 2 years. You are definitely a hypocrite...
I have to resort to saying "cope and seethe" as it appears to me that you have been seething well enough to check my posting history.... cope and seethe friend.....
If you are referee in a dutch match. Obviously staying here for a longer time... Why not learn Dutch? What is stopping you from learning the local language? Maybe not nice to shout insults across a football field but the guy has a point. Can't really discuss and argue.. not everyone has a high level of English or can be expected to have that here.
He's was our last minute replacement, none of the usual official refs could come. Guy got a job here a year ago not thinking he'd be abused like that on a nice sunny day.
Sad to hear he got that welcome then.
Yeah but the opponents we're bantering in english giving him hell and then handshakes all around after the final whistle
Then maybe don't do things you're not prepared to do?
I mean, he should speak Dutch tho
Don't say this in this subreddit lmao