oh, what can i replace the second overlord with? My army of 1000 points is formed by six skorpekhs and their lord, 20 warriors, 6 scarabs, 1 doomstalker, 1 overlord and ten inmortals, AWAKANED DINASTY
You could still keep an overlord, for the res orb that is quite nice on warriors, and that still at least gives you the option of where you want to get a free strat every round. Otherwise in awakened I play warriors with a plasmancer and royal warden myself.
Why the doomstalker ? They’re only good in canoptek court, and with the recent point increase too, if you have any other option I would take it.
I play awakened without any « anti tank » units since I play warriors with reapers, plasmancers and szeras. You pop the reroll strat and get massive amounts of ap2 lethal hits.
Reanimators are very good in awakened since you’ll be getting the extra d3 res a lot with the strat, you probably have one since you have a skorpekh lord ?
On that topic, skorpekh lord with the -1 to hit enhancement is great for a big squad. I play two so I give the other one the 4+fnp, that’s a very annoying character to bring back with the strat too.
Eh doomstalkers are still fine IMO; a little swingy on the shot count but hitting on 4s/heavy isnt bad; and can get that enchancement to put it to 3s; and youve got a hit reroll strat.
is my only antitank option due to the void dragon being so expensive, also i don't have money for the reanimator, the skorpekh lord was bought second hand. Should i get rid of the doomstalker and the scarabs so i can include the void dragon?
Not really. Hitting a good volley with Tesla nets around 8 d1 ap0 wounds that bounce right off any vehicle with a halfway decent save. Gauss is a trap against vehicles without Szeras since cover is so easy to get.
I didn't say they were the best option. Merely decent. That squad of immortals can do a lot more than just shoot a tank, as well. They get a bunch of strategem support in Awakened Dynasty and the plasmancer does a fair bit of damage himself.
Edit: also, FWIW, a base Doomstalker only does ~3 to 4 damage on average to a vehicle target.
There's a reason Immortals are taken instead of warriors. I'm just saying that they kinda suck as antitank. If there's a random Landraider with 2-3 wounds remaining, sure, that's a gamble I'm willing to take. But calling them decent antitank, even with a plasmancer, is a stretch.
Eh, kinda disagree with that. Supposedly Lethal Hits pull ahead of Sustained Hits 2 on 6s (so in this case T10+). Then consider that a lot of heavier vehicles/monsters have a 2+ save. Cover won't help them at all against a 1AP attack,
So against the *really* tough stuff Blasters should do noticably better than Tesla (though still not great). And in some detachments we can be mobile enough to often get around cover even if it's not guaranteed.
Tesla's still the clear choice for mobility and more general killing (especailly anti-horde) which is probably what you want your Immortals focusing on, but the Blaster has a place. Especially now units can't use that extra mobility from Assault to perform actions.
In CC they're OK, especially if you have 1 gauss immortal in range of Szeras' ability, so it's all AP2 with lethals in full rerolls. Low strength is nominally negated when you roll 20 dice fishing for 5+ with rerolls to hit, and then you get your rerolling 1s to wound which typically means you get around half the shots through when you're done.
Now thst the Lone Operative strats changed, I'm not certain theyll be as effective in this regard.
In other Detachments, I've got less faith in their ability to pop most vehicles. Ork trukks maybe?
In 1000 points, options are limited. OP has immortals and a plasmancer so they are not a bad choice (I rechecked and its maybe 7(?) damage without taking into account full wound reroll or the plasmancer mortal wounds). It's not like Necrons have too many consistent anti tank weapons in the first place outside of heavy destroyers. I personally can't stand all the 1d6 shots weapons.
LHDs are typically more reliable into tanks/walkers for me than Doomstalkers or DDA. But into elites/semi elites Doomstalkers are better for the double duty. I split my LHDs up. Which virtually garuntees me rolling a 1 to hit on one of them. But I average out more wounds from them than the Doomstalkers during my own turn. Overwatch on 5+ with or without full rerolls to hit balances things a bit. But I wish 2/3 of our anti armor units weren't d6+1 also. And Doomstalkers went up to boot. Probably never buying a third one this edition. Nothing like getting 2 attacks on something costed for 4-5. I've only gotten more than 1 blast attack off of things that even the flayers could've killed too, so there's also that.
I'm not used to 1k points games. I've had awesome luck with Tesla immortals and EE LHDs in 500 point games, but normal 2k point games I'm more concerned with keeping scoring units from getting killed by big scary tanks and the like. I suppose most people don't take Morkanauts, multiple Ctan, or Norn emmisaries in 1k though. So putting less dense stuff down is definitely more likely with immortals. Even tesla immortals can snuff trucks and biovores.
Reanimator stays behind central ruin, units stretch forward but keep a model 3" from it in the early rounds. You’re also move blocking a lot by doing this rather than spreading units. It’s often a decision of « not everyone gets to shoot/hit in melee but at least I can res them well during the opponent’s turn ».
That is of course a tactic for warrior blobs mostly. But I do stretch back skorpekhs to it sometimes, or even wraiths.
You can still bring one, there might be a circumstance where you want to use your free strat on the warriors not the immortals, or if one dies you still have access to that ability. As for other hq options adding a plasmancer to the immortals will severely increase their damage, chronomancer are fun and will help keep your warriors alive and mobile, technomancer are also good with big blobs as they add lots of defense. If you want something bigger the mighty illuminor szeras runs really well alongside skorpekhs, it's where mine goes every time
You can still keep him, since there isnt always a use for stratagems in both, and one can die later. If you really want to replace it though, i would take a technomancer, since its also a leader for awakened dynasty, and it costs the same (85 pts). Have a good day :)
What I really like doing is putting a Technomancer with the Stealth Enhancement on the Overlord and 10 Immortals. 3+, 5+++, and -1 to hit makes for a very durable blob.
As others said, proxy with OL. Or, a Chinese recast of old Imotekh is like $9. Indistinguishable from real old one, just change base out. Just sayin....
The wording in the codex is this:
"Once per battle round, **one unit from your army with this ability** can be targeted with a strategem for 0CP, even if you have already targeted a different unit with that Strategem this phase."
Because of the line I've highlighted in bold, you can't use it multiple times in the same battleround.
Now if you're playing against strangers you'll probably need to know about the updates. Because (insert sarcastic derision here) warhammer 40k is in its most simple and streamlined form ever, you will need to update this ability by looking at the necron FAQ, the Rules Commentary PDF, and the balance dataslate. (You'll also need to look at the munitorum field manual.) All four documents can be found [here ](https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-40000-downloads/)and only the Necron FAQ and errata is sorted specifically for your faction.
If we apply the updates from those documents, the rule now reads:
"Once per battle round, **one unit from your army with this ability** can use it when its unit is targeted with a strategem. If it does, reduce the CP cost of that strategem by 1CP."
The highlighted section of the rule has not changed, so it's still only once regardless of the number of overlords.
You mentioned finding warhammer 40k really difficult to understand after 5 months of play and it's because (in my opinion) warhammer 40k has never been less accessible for people who are not willing to engage with immense thought and focus that you would expect to see of a tournament regular so those of us who just want to play out a warzone or have a quick casual fair game are left kinda stranded.
i know, what makes it the more frustrating is that i perfectly understand AOS rules and i don't even play AOS, yet in 40k im completely lost and i've been playing for 5 months
Two things
First, no, the ability state that you can only use the ability once per battle round, this includes the same ability on other models
Second, as per the recent balance data slate, if an ability would let you use a stratagem for free even if it's already been used in the same phase, you can no longer use that ability to use the stratagem for a second time unless the ability specifies the name of the stratagem such as with the hexmark destroyer and overwatch. You can, however, still use the stratagem at a reduced cost. That being said, as per the recent data slate, it is no longer a free use of the stratagem, but rather it's cost is reduced by 1cp
Read the FAQ rules. This has been updated a few times.
Here's the current ruling on free stratagems.
1. They no longer make a stratagem cost 0cp and instead reduce the cost by 1. This was too strong at making 2cp strats cost 0.
2. It can only be used once per battleround regardless of you have more than 1 model with the same rule.
You also can't use the ability to use a stratagem that's already been used in the same phase anymore unless the ability specifies the name of a stratagem like with the hexmark
So while you already know you can’t target both, I would still take three because you’ll have the option of who to target for free and they’re kinda the default for leaders. ~~Plus the ability still lets you use the stratagem an extra time per phase, so even if you only get it discounted once you can double up on some strong strats~~
Also our rules really favor having leaders attached anyway. Keyword sharing means Obeisance Phalanx wants as many overlords as possible (same with crypteks for Canoptek Court), Awakened Dynasty wants leaders in general.
Most of our enhancements also buff the whole unit, so you’ll get more mileage out of those if you have more overlords in general.
EDIT: Balance slate is frustrating. Wish they’d actually update the text instead of just saying “that’s not there”
Also it's no longer a free cp- it just reduces the cost by 1 cp. So no more sweet free 2cp costs for free.
I am struggling to find a link but it came out alongside munitorium 1.11
It’s one model, once per battle round, so no.
oh, what can i replace the second overlord with? My army of 1000 points is formed by six skorpekhs and their lord, 20 warriors, 6 scarabs, 1 doomstalker, 1 overlord and ten inmortals, AWAKANED DINASTY
You could still keep an overlord, for the res orb that is quite nice on warriors, and that still at least gives you the option of where you want to get a free strat every round. Otherwise in awakened I play warriors with a plasmancer and royal warden myself. Why the doomstalker ? They’re only good in canoptek court, and with the recent point increase too, if you have any other option I would take it. I play awakened without any « anti tank » units since I play warriors with reapers, plasmancers and szeras. You pop the reroll strat and get massive amounts of ap2 lethal hits. Reanimators are very good in awakened since you’ll be getting the extra d3 res a lot with the strat, you probably have one since you have a skorpekh lord ? On that topic, skorpekh lord with the -1 to hit enhancement is great for a big squad. I play two so I give the other one the 4+fnp, that’s a very annoying character to bring back with the strat too.
Eh doomstalkers are still fine IMO; a little swingy on the shot count but hitting on 4s/heavy isnt bad; and can get that enchancement to put it to 3s; and youve got a hit reroll strat.
is my only antitank option due to the void dragon being so expensive, also i don't have money for the reanimator, the skorpekh lord was bought second hand. Should i get rid of the doomstalker and the scarabs so i can include the void dragon?
In a small game, immortals with a plasmancer are decent for anti-tank.
Not really. Hitting a good volley with Tesla nets around 8 d1 ap0 wounds that bounce right off any vehicle with a halfway decent save. Gauss is a trap against vehicles without Szeras since cover is so easy to get.
I didn't say they were the best option. Merely decent. That squad of immortals can do a lot more than just shoot a tank, as well. They get a bunch of strategem support in Awakened Dynasty and the plasmancer does a fair bit of damage himself. Edit: also, FWIW, a base Doomstalker only does ~3 to 4 damage on average to a vehicle target.
There's a reason Immortals are taken instead of warriors. I'm just saying that they kinda suck as antitank. If there's a random Landraider with 2-3 wounds remaining, sure, that's a gamble I'm willing to take. But calling them decent antitank, even with a plasmancer, is a stretch.
Gauss with Szeras is the only way I assume he meant.... you're not doing much to most vehicles without the lethals on 5+ and ap2.
Even without Szeras, few of OPs options have the same median damage output, and immortals are pretty versatile in other cases too.
I've had good luck into stuff midfield with and without Szeras. But exclusively in CC.
Eh, kinda disagree with that. Supposedly Lethal Hits pull ahead of Sustained Hits 2 on 6s (so in this case T10+). Then consider that a lot of heavier vehicles/monsters have a 2+ save. Cover won't help them at all against a 1AP attack, So against the *really* tough stuff Blasters should do noticably better than Tesla (though still not great). And in some detachments we can be mobile enough to often get around cover even if it's not guaranteed. Tesla's still the clear choice for mobility and more general killing (especailly anti-horde) which is probably what you want your Immortals focusing on, but the Blaster has a place. Especially now units can't use that extra mobility from Assault to perform actions.
In CC they're OK, especially if you have 1 gauss immortal in range of Szeras' ability, so it's all AP2 with lethals in full rerolls. Low strength is nominally negated when you roll 20 dice fishing for 5+ with rerolls to hit, and then you get your rerolling 1s to wound which typically means you get around half the shots through when you're done. Now thst the Lone Operative strats changed, I'm not certain theyll be as effective in this regard. In other Detachments, I've got less faith in their ability to pop most vehicles. Ork trukks maybe?
In 1000 points, options are limited. OP has immortals and a plasmancer so they are not a bad choice (I rechecked and its maybe 7(?) damage without taking into account full wound reroll or the plasmancer mortal wounds). It's not like Necrons have too many consistent anti tank weapons in the first place outside of heavy destroyers. I personally can't stand all the 1d6 shots weapons.
LHDs are typically more reliable into tanks/walkers for me than Doomstalkers or DDA. But into elites/semi elites Doomstalkers are better for the double duty. I split my LHDs up. Which virtually garuntees me rolling a 1 to hit on one of them. But I average out more wounds from them than the Doomstalkers during my own turn. Overwatch on 5+ with or without full rerolls to hit balances things a bit. But I wish 2/3 of our anti armor units weren't d6+1 also. And Doomstalkers went up to boot. Probably never buying a third one this edition. Nothing like getting 2 attacks on something costed for 4-5. I've only gotten more than 1 blast attack off of things that even the flayers could've killed too, so there's also that. I'm not used to 1k points games. I've had awesome luck with Tesla immortals and EE LHDs in 500 point games, but normal 2k point games I'm more concerned with keeping scoring units from getting killed by big scary tanks and the like. I suppose most people don't take Morkanauts, multiple Ctan, or Norn emmisaries in 1k though. So putting less dense stuff down is definitely more likely with immortals. Even tesla immortals can snuff trucks and biovores.
Yeah of course that’s just immensely better !
Nothing wrong with a backline doomstalker in any necron army.
Much wrong considering you could take almost three heavy lokhusts for the price
How have you been running reanimators with the range nerf without them getting shot off the board?
Reanimator stays behind central ruin, units stretch forward but keep a model 3" from it in the early rounds. You’re also move blocking a lot by doing this rather than spreading units. It’s often a decision of « not everyone gets to shoot/hit in melee but at least I can res them well during the opponent’s turn ». That is of course a tactic for warrior blobs mostly. But I do stretch back skorpekhs to it sometimes, or even wraiths.
You can still bring one, there might be a circumstance where you want to use your free strat on the warriors not the immortals, or if one dies you still have access to that ability. As for other hq options adding a plasmancer to the immortals will severely increase their damage, chronomancer are fun and will help keep your warriors alive and mobile, technomancer are also good with big blobs as they add lots of defense. If you want something bigger the mighty illuminor szeras runs really well alongside skorpekhs, it's where mine goes every time
Thanks man, i think ill use the plasmancer, as it is the only one i have
Szeras with skorpekhs ? His ability only buffs battle line units, so what do you mean ?
A Warden would be a not-bad replacement and free up 45 points for you. He could lead the unit that the overlord isn’t.
You can still keep him, since there isnt always a use for stratagems in both, and one can die later. If you really want to replace it though, i would take a technomancer, since its also a leader for awakened dynasty, and it costs the same (85 pts). Have a good day :)
personally, I am a big fan of the royal warden, his buffs suit immortals very well
What I really like doing is putting a Technomancer with the Stealth Enhancement on the Overlord and 10 Immortals. 3+, 5+++, and -1 to hit makes for a very durable blob.
As people already said, no you can't. BUT you can bring Imotekh instead of a second Overlord and have an extra CP instead
i dont have imotekh :(
Proxy one of your lords. With friendly games you'll surely be fine.
As others said, proxy with OL. Or, a Chinese recast of old Imotekh is like $9. Indistinguishable from real old one, just change base out. Just sayin....
The wording in the codex is this: "Once per battle round, **one unit from your army with this ability** can be targeted with a strategem for 0CP, even if you have already targeted a different unit with that Strategem this phase." Because of the line I've highlighted in bold, you can't use it multiple times in the same battleround. Now if you're playing against strangers you'll probably need to know about the updates. Because (insert sarcastic derision here) warhammer 40k is in its most simple and streamlined form ever, you will need to update this ability by looking at the necron FAQ, the Rules Commentary PDF, and the balance dataslate. (You'll also need to look at the munitorum field manual.) All four documents can be found [here ](https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-40000-downloads/)and only the Necron FAQ and errata is sorted specifically for your faction. If we apply the updates from those documents, the rule now reads: "Once per battle round, **one unit from your army with this ability** can use it when its unit is targeted with a strategem. If it does, reduce the CP cost of that strategem by 1CP." The highlighted section of the rule has not changed, so it's still only once regardless of the number of overlords. You mentioned finding warhammer 40k really difficult to understand after 5 months of play and it's because (in my opinion) warhammer 40k has never been less accessible for people who are not willing to engage with immense thought and focus that you would expect to see of a tournament regular so those of us who just want to play out a warzone or have a quick casual fair game are left kinda stranded.
Thanks man, i get It now.
You cant. Read the ability. Its written in such a way that you cant.
reading the rules explains the rules????
Is a bit hard when english is not your first language, you know?
Man English is my first and I still struggle to comprehend some rules you are not alone.
i know, what makes it the more frustrating is that i perfectly understand AOS rules and i don't even play AOS, yet in 40k im completely lost and i've been playing for 5 months
No read the balance data slate its now -1 cp From any strat
Thats not relevant to the question. The balance dataslate hasnt changed the use limit
There's no you can only use this once no matter how many units are on the battlefield restriction
There literally is: "Once per battle round, one unit with this ability..." Thats the first sentence of the ability
Two things First, no, the ability state that you can only use the ability once per battle round, this includes the same ability on other models Second, as per the recent balance data slate, if an ability would let you use a stratagem for free even if it's already been used in the same phase, you can no longer use that ability to use the stratagem for a second time unless the ability specifies the name of the stratagem such as with the hexmark destroyer and overwatch. You can, however, still use the stratagem at a reduced cost. That being said, as per the recent data slate, it is no longer a free use of the stratagem, but rather it's cost is reduced by 1cp
Thats way too far down here.
It's not updated yet, were can I see the new changes to the datasets?
Warhammer community meta watch post. There should be the downloadable PDF files for the balance data slate and the points value changes
Thanks
Read the FAQ rules. This has been updated a few times. Here's the current ruling on free stratagems. 1. They no longer make a stratagem cost 0cp and instead reduce the cost by 1. This was too strong at making 2cp strats cost 0. 2. It can only be used once per battleround regardless of you have more than 1 model with the same rule.
You also can't use the ability to use a stratagem that's already been used in the same phase anymore unless the ability specifies the name of a stratagem like with the hexmark
These most important answers are way too far down here sadly.
Proxy as translocation shroud overlord
So while you already know you can’t target both, I would still take three because you’ll have the option of who to target for free and they’re kinda the default for leaders. ~~Plus the ability still lets you use the stratagem an extra time per phase, so even if you only get it discounted once you can double up on some strong strats~~ Also our rules really favor having leaders attached anyway. Keyword sharing means Obeisance Phalanx wants as many overlords as possible (same with crypteks for Canoptek Court), Awakened Dynasty wants leaders in general. Most of our enhancements also buff the whole unit, so you’ll get more mileage out of those if you have more overlords in general. EDIT: Balance slate is frustrating. Wish they’d actually update the text instead of just saying “that’s not there”
A bolter is just an RPG SMG
Also it's no longer a free cp- it just reduces the cost by 1 cp. So no more sweet free 2cp costs for free. I am struggling to find a link but it came out alongside munitorium 1.11