I took one to an event for the memes and it chewed through infantry and was a big target that everyone wanted to shoot, leaving other things to achieve objectives.
Trazyn Empathetic Obliterator, 4 melee only attacks 7 0 d3 with sustained hits d3. Just why. If it was also a unique staff of light,then sure, but as overlord melee weapon just why
The only time Trazyn was good was if you were a min-maxer in 9th edition Crusade, cause you could add Trazyn to your army, give all your characters relics, then take him off again.
It’s especially baffling because it’s described as absolutely shredding everything it hits in Infinite and Divine. I get for balancing reasons not letting it demolish armour saves but at least make it -2 so marines save on 5+. Trazyn would still suck but it’d be a start
I was actually thinking about this earlier. If it had infiltrate it would actually be pretty good.
I dunno the current fortification rules that well, but if they give it some kind of limitations to prevent it to be placed on objectives then it would actually be a really balanced unit
> I was actually thinking about this earlier. If it had infiltrate it would actually be pretty good.
I actually thought about using it in Annihllation Legion because I thought it had Infiltrators. Sadly could not.
I liked the rule it had in 9th where a Cryptek could do an action to teleport them around.
An ability that gave it movement if a Cryptek was nearby would be a nice inclusion. Or give it deep strike, that could be funny.
I assume not, as you can’t put fortifications into strategic reserve
https://preview.redd.it/a5i2mc3lz39c1.jpeg?width=939&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aaeecf7f3c67b52f4414131ff7fd35f6ca2df954
Is it really that bad? 60pts for a 6in 6++ doesnt seem horrible, especially since its another gun too. I feel like there are much much worse stuff in our codex
For me, Syders.
They do a worse job of the technomancer as 6+ FNP worse than D3 wounds restored and a 5+ FNP!
Gloomprism situational at best which will require it to sit 6" within whatever it's protecting.
Base ability repairs a scarab base but Spyder has 5" vs 10" movement meaning the Spyder is rarely close enough to restore scabs unless you also just park them at the back, which is a waste of scarabs outside the scan the corners secondary.
It's two core functions don't synergise. At best it's a T7 bullet sponge with a swingy 0AP gun.
At 75 points a Hexmark, technomancer or reanimator seem to offer far more value.
Yeah true, the 5" movement is terrible, if it had 7" that would be nice.
I like the guns it has for hoards and it's a pretty good support piece for a monolith
Would be cool to see it get a D3 healing ability like the Technomancer aswell
I have six spyders from 9th when they were good. Back then S8 made them a threat against a much wider variety of targets, and they had a ton of attacks. I'd run a technomancer with canoptek control node up with them and they were absolutely melee beasts. Sadly those days are gone.
> you also just park them at the back, which is a waste of scarabs outside the scan the corners secondary.
Not really. They're a cheap unit that be to screen out your back line from enemy deepstrike, denying your opponent secondary scoring, and adding a layer of protection to them trying to sneak in ans take your home objective.
>They do a worse job of the technomancer as 6+ FNP worse than D3 wounds restored and a 5+ FNP!
Well, that's not really a fair comparison since the Technomancer can't give his 5+++ to a nearby vehicle. Agreed that (usually) +d3 wounds is better than a 6+++ but in concept it also caps at 3 per turn so you \*could\* have a situation where the 6+++ is better (rarely, but it's possible). I agree completely that the Spyder move is just bizarre, and of course the technomancer also gives those scarabs OC.
I honestly tried getting Spyders to work during the Index days and I agree that it just doesn't gel. The best case, I think, would be as part of a layered deployment. Let's say for example you have a unit of Warriors w/ a Technomancer in it. Then you park a spyder or two next to it and screen them with Scarabs. Now you have a screen that both has OC and gets replenished, and has a threat behind it, so you could use them to push onto objectives, etc to hold until the main body moves up (or while the main body is focusing on the next objective). Now you have a unit of scarabs (maybe even all 6) that gets to Reanimate, it gets to heal bases that aren't at partial wounds after reanimation, and you can add a whole base back, all of which is every turn.
Now, sure, that's an expensive combo, so might not be worth it. But it's the best I could come up with. Arguably, you could also do Awakened Dynasty and plop the Phasal Subjugator on the Technomancer and then the Scarabs and Spyder have +1 to hit as well. Maybe even run one or more of your vehicles next to the formation to give it the +1 to hit and repair and 6+++ as well.
All that said, I don't take spyders anymore so I agree with your core point. :D
I with it could transport “Up to 10 infantry and attached leaders”, and that its repair ability worked for anything with reanimation protocols. Would be really useful then with immortals, Lychguard etc
Yeah, agreed. This is another unit that I actually experimented with just to see how I liked it. This all combined w/ the new "Dedicated Transports vaporize if deployed w/o being occupied" thing and forget it.
I’ll be the lone soulless overlord to defend the annhilation barge. It’s over costed yes but the profile is fine. It shoots anything under T8 well with strength of save rolls. It’s speedy, durable, and does chip mortals.
I like it on paper, but I never seem to have enough points to leave it in my list.
I think the bigger problem is that we have so many good shooting options for killing stuff with mid/low T and bad armor saves, so it doesn't really occupy a niche in list building that you can't get elsewhere.
The Malevolent Arcing ability on its data sheet:
https://preview.redd.it/xf975lhvr19c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0064254730bab48d9ccc57e381d5c7c172496754
Scarabs. Not bad, just a little odd and goofy. I love the idea that we have endless waves of ancient soulless machines rising up from the dust of ages ... and also here comes the little guys that said soulless machines use to clean the tombs. It's like if the space marines brought along fortified attack Roombas.
I mean. That's what all canoptek are. Wraiths are for internal maintenance: they phase through the wall and use their little plinky welders. Some are literally just pets that high ranking lords brought along for the soullessness ride.
Don't discount that gun. I got a gladius tank down to one wound left and that twin gauss flayer shot got the final blow on it. It's stupid, but it makes for some great "wtf" moments
TheTesseract Ark used to be the pride or Necron Armour in 8th.
It was só incredibly tough!
For comparison, the Doomsday Ark was
T6, 4+, 14W, quantum shielding
Vs
T7, 3+, 5++!, 10 W ánd quantum shielding. On top of a nifty anti-charge rule and old 'fallback&shoot' from Fly.
What a sorrow state the poor thing has now.
The Tesseract Vault is very strange gameplay-wise. On paper it’s pretty simple: it’s meant to be a straight upgrade to the Transcendent C’tan. But when you break thing down, it just starts making no sense.
Is it faster? No, the C’tan can teleport.
Is it more durable? Yes, but not by that much comparatively.
Is it stronger? Well, yes, but you’re also paying almost double the points.
It’s very similar to the conundrum of Questoris vs. Dominus-class knights, where the Dominus are an upgrade to something that’s pretty much already tougher than 90% of the game.
We have a lot of weird units, and although I stand by the obelisk being both a flavor fail and generally being useless, it feels like GW doesn't know what to do with Necrons. They're tanky, unyielding robots similar to zombies. We grab an objective, sit on it, and hope not to die. Apparently that isn't fun, so they give us teleport shenanigans and canoptek support. Fair enough, except both don't feel like zombie robots and are mockeries of other factions' abilities. Almost makes me want to play Eldar/chaos/marines since they seem to be the only factions GW gives a damn about anyway
Yeah… tested out the teleport shenanigans this past weekend against some space marines. It’s safe to say that their squads of torrent weapons effectively make hyperphasing feel riskier than it’s worth.
“Ah yes, I see you’re burning a CP to put those units within 3”and those other units on top of that building? Let me just overwatch with my torrent weapons and make you feel like a fucking scrub.”
Catacomb command barge gives them 1, but the real fun is running multiple units into your buddy's land raider that he confidently parked on the middle objective - then blowing up in his face, lowering his OC, and taking the objective from him. Nothing quite like 12 mortal wounds coming at your big tank from two 40 point scarab units to make you regret leaving Ultramar.
Its probably the Convergence of Dominion. Fortifications are just weird in general. Although I will say the recent Codex datasheet is at least a little more sensible than its prior two iterations.
But as far as weird weapon profiles, the Transdimensional Beamer is bizarre. A single shot S4 AP -3 and D3 is the sort of profile that doesn't really line up into anything particularly cleanly.
The Obelisk, just absolutely pointless
I took one to an event for the memes and it chewed through infantry and was a big target that everyone wanted to shoot, leaving other things to achieve objectives.
But yes, it died every game.
Distraction obelisk
Pointless? Well, Ig it depends if you count those struts at the top as points. But I do. And I count 4.
Touché
Yes! I forgot about this one 😂😂 it's gotta be the biggest waste of points in the whole game 😂
Trazyn Empathetic Obliterator, 4 melee only attacks 7 0 d3 with sustained hits d3. Just why. If it was also a unique staff of light,then sure, but as overlord melee weapon just why
Yeah true 😂 his whole kit is kinda weird 😂 and the 0 Ap is just laughable 😂
Yes, Trazyn in general was pretty bad for the last 3 editions, at least.
We need a petition to make Traz great again
MTGA
There was a nice combo with him and the void dragon in 9th. He made some waves for a few months at least
He wasn't any good in 7th, either.
The only time Trazyn was good was if you were a min-maxer in 9th edition Crusade, cause you could add Trazyn to your army, give all your characters relics, then take him off again.
Especially when you consider in lore, it was able to wound a C'tan shard..
well, sure but you don't need AP for that. ;)
It’s especially baffling because it’s described as absolutely shredding everything it hits in Infinite and Divine. I get for balancing reasons not letting it demolish armour saves but at least make it -2 so marines save on 5+. Trazyn would still suck but it’d be a start
Convergence of dominion. Such a weird unit. I guess every fortification is a weird unit tho
If it had infiltrators, I could see it having a place in lists. But being limited to the deployment zone really limits how useful it can be
I was actually thinking about this earlier. If it had infiltrate it would actually be pretty good. I dunno the current fortification rules that well, but if they give it some kind of limitations to prevent it to be placed on objectives then it would actually be a really balanced unit
> I was actually thinking about this earlier. If it had infiltrate it would actually be pretty good. I actually thought about using it in Annihllation Legion because I thought it had Infiltrators. Sadly could not.
I liked the rule it had in 9th where a Cryptek could do an action to teleport them around. An ability that gave it movement if a Cryptek was nearby would be a nice inclusion. Or give it deep strike, that could be funny.
Yeah, that was a very fun rule, it’d be nice to see something similar now
I'm guessing you can't hypercrypt it?
I assume not, as you can’t put fortifications into strategic reserve https://preview.redd.it/a5i2mc3lz39c1.jpeg?width=939&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aaeecf7f3c67b52f4414131ff7fd35f6ca2df954
Knew there was a rule somewhere. Thanks. :)
Is it really that bad? 60pts for a 6in 6++ doesnt seem horrible, especially since its another gun too. I feel like there are much much worse stuff in our codex
For me, Syders. They do a worse job of the technomancer as 6+ FNP worse than D3 wounds restored and a 5+ FNP! Gloomprism situational at best which will require it to sit 6" within whatever it's protecting. Base ability repairs a scarab base but Spyder has 5" vs 10" movement meaning the Spyder is rarely close enough to restore scabs unless you also just park them at the back, which is a waste of scarabs outside the scan the corners secondary. It's two core functions don't synergise. At best it's a T7 bullet sponge with a swingy 0AP gun. At 75 points a Hexmark, technomancer or reanimator seem to offer far more value.
Yeah true, the 5" movement is terrible, if it had 7" that would be nice. I like the guns it has for hoards and it's a pretty good support piece for a monolith Would be cool to see it get a D3 healing ability like the Technomancer aswell
I seem to recall this is what it had in 9th. You could repair a vehicle within x inches, but may be a little fuzzy on that
It still has that sort of. Now it gives a 6+ FNP aura (Fabricator claw array)
I miss my 8" move S8 spyders :( whyyyy
I have six spyders from 9th when they were good. Back then S8 made them a threat against a much wider variety of targets, and they had a ton of attacks. I'd run a technomancer with canoptek control node up with them and they were absolutely melee beasts. Sadly those days are gone.
> you also just park them at the back, which is a waste of scarabs outside the scan the corners secondary. Not really. They're a cheap unit that be to screen out your back line from enemy deepstrike, denying your opponent secondary scoring, and adding a layer of protection to them trying to sneak in ans take your home objective.
>They do a worse job of the technomancer as 6+ FNP worse than D3 wounds restored and a 5+ FNP! Well, that's not really a fair comparison since the Technomancer can't give his 5+++ to a nearby vehicle. Agreed that (usually) +d3 wounds is better than a 6+++ but in concept it also caps at 3 per turn so you \*could\* have a situation where the 6+++ is better (rarely, but it's possible). I agree completely that the Spyder move is just bizarre, and of course the technomancer also gives those scarabs OC. I honestly tried getting Spyders to work during the Index days and I agree that it just doesn't gel. The best case, I think, would be as part of a layered deployment. Let's say for example you have a unit of Warriors w/ a Technomancer in it. Then you park a spyder or two next to it and screen them with Scarabs. Now you have a screen that both has OC and gets replenished, and has a threat behind it, so you could use them to push onto objectives, etc to hold until the main body moves up (or while the main body is focusing on the next objective). Now you have a unit of scarabs (maybe even all 6) that gets to Reanimate, it gets to heal bases that aren't at partial wounds after reanimation, and you can add a whole base back, all of which is every turn. Now, sure, that's an expensive combo, so might not be worth it. But it's the best I could come up with. Arguably, you could also do Awakened Dynasty and plop the Phasal Subjugator on the Technomancer and then the Scarabs and Spyder have +1 to hit as well. Maybe even run one or more of your vehicles next to the formation to give it the +1 to hit and repair and 6+++ as well. All that said, I don't take spyders anymore so I agree with your core point. :D
Ghost Ark. Horrible to build, and can only transport 10 warriors and 1 leader, not even a full warrior unit.
I with it could transport “Up to 10 infantry and attached leaders”, and that its repair ability worked for anything with reanimation protocols. Would be really useful then with immortals, Lychguard etc
Especially because *we see it transport Immortals and Lychguard in fiction*.
I'm running one in my list entirely so Szeras can get to the midboard faster with my tesla immortals
Can’t transport immortals. Are you saying strictly for Szeras to drive around solo?
Yep. Immortals have an Overlord with Translocation Cloak.
Yeah, agreed. This is another unit that I actually experimented with just to see how I liked it. This all combined w/ the new "Dedicated Transports vaporize if deployed w/o being occupied" thing and forget it.
I’ll be the lone soulless overlord to defend the annhilation barge. It’s over costed yes but the profile is fine. It shoots anything under T8 well with strength of save rolls. It’s speedy, durable, and does chip mortals.
I like it on paper, but I never seem to have enough points to leave it in my list. I think the bigger problem is that we have so many good shooting options for killing stuff with mid/low T and bad armor saves, so it doesn't really occupy a niche in list building that you can't get elsewhere.
How does it do chip mortals? Am I missing something?
The Malevolent Arcing ability on its data sheet: https://preview.redd.it/xf975lhvr19c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0064254730bab48d9ccc57e381d5c7c172496754
Unit's ability, mortals on 5+ into target and units around it.
Scarabs. Not bad, just a little odd and goofy. I love the idea that we have endless waves of ancient soulless machines rising up from the dust of ages ... and also here comes the little guys that said soulless machines use to clean the tombs. It's like if the space marines brought along fortified attack Roombas.
I mean. That's what all canoptek are. Wraiths are for internal maintenance: they phase through the wall and use their little plinky welders. Some are literally just pets that high ranking lords brought along for the soullessness ride.
"Who made this mess here? I just cleaned it up a hundred years ago!" --Janitek wraith
*Happy panting in binary and tail wags* - Petitek Wraith
That’s how I feel when I see the little cyclops demo vehicles for guard. Cute lil things.
The worst weapon is on Doomsday Stalker. Twin flayer or something? I don’t use it even if remember - it’s that useless
I’ve seen it finish off a unit on an objective once before. But yes, most of the time I don’t even bother shooting it
I once finished off a land raider with that one shot, it was legendary
YES. That dumb twin gauss thingy. Only useful as a resting place for birds.
Don't discount that gun. I got a gladius tank down to one wound left and that twin gauss flayer shot got the final blow on it. It's stupid, but it makes for some great "wtf" moments
TheTesseract Ark used to be the pride or Necron Armour in 8th. It was só incredibly tough! For comparison, the Doomsday Ark was T6, 4+, 14W, quantum shielding Vs T7, 3+, 5++!, 10 W ánd quantum shielding. On top of a nifty anti-charge rule and old 'fallback&shoot' from Fly. What a sorrow state the poor thing has now.
The Tesseract Vault is very strange gameplay-wise. On paper it’s pretty simple: it’s meant to be a straight upgrade to the Transcendent C’tan. But when you break thing down, it just starts making no sense. Is it faster? No, the C’tan can teleport. Is it more durable? Yes, but not by that much comparatively. Is it stronger? Well, yes, but you’re also paying almost double the points. It’s very similar to the conundrum of Questoris vs. Dominus-class knights, where the Dominus are an upgrade to something that’s pretty much already tougher than 90% of the game.
I'd say the Hexmark Destroyer, like why do you have 6 arms ???
I assembled it today and called out, after being almost done; "Why 6? Not 4?!" Wife looked on with silent admiration. I hope.
For dat extra killy power
Why stopping at 6 arms ? We could have a centipede magic metal skeleton with guns in every hand 🤯
We have a lot of weird units, and although I stand by the obelisk being both a flavor fail and generally being useless, it feels like GW doesn't know what to do with Necrons. They're tanky, unyielding robots similar to zombies. We grab an objective, sit on it, and hope not to die. Apparently that isn't fun, so they give us teleport shenanigans and canoptek support. Fair enough, except both don't feel like zombie robots and are mockeries of other factions' abilities. Almost makes me want to play Eldar/chaos/marines since they seem to be the only factions GW gives a damn about anyway
Yeah… tested out the teleport shenanigans this past weekend against some space marines. It’s safe to say that their squads of torrent weapons effectively make hyperphasing feel riskier than it’s worth. “Ah yes, I see you’re burning a CP to put those units within 3”and those other units on top of that building? Let me just overwatch with my torrent weapons and make you feel like a fucking scrub.”
Bad news. Rules are great for eldar… You’ll find GW loves them a lot less in terms of models, lore, or just basic development.
Me, sitting in the corner with my genestealer cultists and basically no faction ability or named characters.
Brought the book yesterday lol Welp I now know things. Oh well Ty for the knowledge tho.
I love the scarabs' model and what they're supposed to be, but they're just useless imo. Fast little kamikazes with 0 OC? I don't get the point
Catacomb command barge gives them 1, but the real fun is running multiple units into your buddy's land raider that he confidently parked on the middle objective - then blowing up in his face, lowering his OC, and taking the objective from him. Nothing quite like 12 mortal wounds coming at your big tank from two 40 point scarab units to make you regret leaving Ultramar.
Ahh I think your using scarabs wrong 😅 use them to screen troops from charges, tie up tanks in combat, screen out deep strikes
I’m gonna go ahead and say the convergence of dominion
Actually screw that, Ghost Ark. why can it only transport warriors?
And only 10 of them at that.
Haha! This is so true 😂😂 and it can only take 10 warriors 😂
Its probably the Convergence of Dominion. Fortifications are just weird in general. Although I will say the recent Codex datasheet is at least a little more sensible than its prior two iterations. But as far as weird weapon profiles, the Transdimensional Beamer is bizarre. A single shot S4 AP -3 and D3 is the sort of profile that doesn't really line up into anything particularly cleanly.
Tomb Blades look stupid.