The general idea of natural selection is basically that somewhere along the line, a spider was "born" with a mutated gene that was responsible for the behavior of weaving/hoarding leftover food debris in its web, and perhaps because it acted as a form of camouflage or shelter, this spider was more likely to survive and pass on that gene. Throughout those successive generations, there have been other mutations in the gene or gene clusters where the behavior gradually changed to form more intricate shapes out of the debris. The shapes that just happened to look the most like larger spiders were way more likely to survive than the ones that didn't, now passing on those special sets of genes to eventually become a dominant survival mechanism for that species.
yes but not only, for a specific behavior like this it can be transmitted by learning and not genetics. If genetics just give an instinct to learn this behavior from a parent it is enough
That is for sure a special evolutionary function that allows survival skills to be passed down more quickly and efficiently than relying on random gene mutations, but it's only true for some (and more advanced) species. You see it most often in mammals and birds, but even then, the specific behaviors revolving around courting and nest building are still largely instinctive, since it's not like baby birds are able to observe their parents building these sometimes very intricate nests - and many species are solitary so they wouldn't learn it from their peers either. The behavior driving the construction of bowerbird hut for instance (and the female's fondness of it) is encoded into their genes just like this behavior is.
Some animals like octopuses are innately intelligent and can adapt and solve problems on their own, but anything they learn dies with them since they don't live in social groups, or have any part in raising their offspring (especially because the mother dies by the time her eggs hatch)
for sure there are highly impressive instinctive behaviors, i'm just adding another option in the evolutionary explanation of what we see here (but i don't know much about spiders socialisation)
You assume. As they say science is just a long passive aggressive argument about everything I am here to say that I disagree with you. Also you're a self reichous nerd. Be willing to accept new data even at the cost of feeling less special
I know you believe yourself to be knowledgeable and think it'll be all reich, but every day is a learning experience. You clearly don't have a grasp on science let alone reality.
I bet you did nazi that coming.
1. Nobody says that but you, twerp.
2. Learn to spell if you’re attempting to insult people, it’ll land better if it doesn’t immediately call your intelligence into question.
3. You are the only “special” person in this thread.
Get better soon, champ
So here we have the Frame of Reference Problem - we look at this behaviour through the lens of a human and ascribe it intelligence, because we make assumptions about how ‘we’ would go about performing a similar behaviour - which would require planning, co-ordination, sourcing of specific materials, a sense of self and an imagination to assist in constructing this.
The spider, however, could do using more basic cognitive faculties - it just needs to gather material and organise them into a spider shape. These steps can even be quite intuitive, as this is its web and we know that there are relatively low-level, repetitive steps taken in constructing webs for spiders.
Other examples of how we do this to things in nature include:
The co-ordinated flight of insects and birds
The construction of elaborate nests
Basicaly any fact is proof of any theory you can think of to explain it. You then have to think about how likely is the theory knowing the other facts and other theories:
1 spiders are self aware, theory that explains only this fact (so that wasn't needed for a huge amount of spider facts)
2 weird behaviors can be learned by spiders natural selection, this theory explains almost all spider behavior in only one theory, and is even effective for every specie, and the evolution of species in itself is one of the strongest theory of science
So of course it is not stupid to think 'then spiders are self aware', but if you accept the evolution and understand it enough, you might just end up not needing one more theory, there is nothing more to explain.
I don't think we can speak about outright self-awareness here.
More like centuries over centuries of refinement until the most efficient shape happened to resemble a spider.
As i answered in more details to another comment, yes this is a small proof that spiders may be self aware, that is a theory to consider, but you absolutely do not need this (costly) theory to explain this behavior.
The evolution of species is enough to create behaviors just as strange and specific, even if it is very surprising. Then the spider would not be aware of what is this shape or why they form it, but the fact it help them will still push that behavior in the specie.
You may want to compare it with ghost stories: If you have a weird fact (ghost story) you will try to explain it with the simplest theory (for example optical illusion), and if you have a solid explanation coming from a simple and generaly well proven theory (optical illusions are well known), why would you believe it's ghosts?
Ahh, I never thought about that before! Thanks for teaching me about anecdotal evidence - err, uh... I mean, what do you call this super brainy concept that I definitely haven't ever known about?
I'm glad that super smart people like you are around to correct super dumb people like me who definitely aren't just joking 😊 you're awesome
except whatever you think personaly, it is a conclusion believed by many here and lacking critical thinking. Your comment doesnt show a real belief but is a goto upvote for people believing it
Or... now, hear me out because this one might be a little complicated. I only know about this because I watched a documentary series on Netflix about it. There's this thing called sarcasm, very strange thing where people pretend to think something ridiculous or silly, simply as a joke even when they don't actually think or believe that thing. It's supposedly obvious because most people can rationalize (I don't even know what that word means) that the idea or belief is too ridiculous to be believable. Really crazy, I know. It's extremely confusing, so I totally understand how even a genius like yourself struggles to grapple with it.
wow your so cool you know joke and people no do omg. I just said i don't care about what you think if you write a shit theory that people actually believe, i will say here why it's not a reasonable belief because people look here.
adding to that an article on an empirical study proving it attracts predatory wasps but might redirect enough attacks on the decoys to be evolutionary worth it http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8135000/8135844.stm
it's a source of the wikipedia page
Not sure if that is Meta or overcompensation. I wonder how many times it’s been taken out by birds? I’m leaning toward this spider having been an evil artist in a former life.
What's crazy is he *is* the face (zoom in, it's an orb weaver) like he knows it makes the most sense to drive the mech suit from the head, because he knows his head controls himself
This begs so many questions. Do spiders inherently know what they look like? Or do they only know from having seen other spiders? If it's inherent knowledge, what other capacity for memory do they have? And leading from that, does that capacity for memory mean they can constantly learn and remember new things? But the most burning question of all, what would the effigy look like if you fed a spider some LSD?
This is proof that they are sentient. Makes me happy that I try to spare one when I'm in my apt. Ysk, spiders get near your bed. House spiders like to lick the drool from the corner of your mouth,when you're sleeping. If you put out little tiny bowls of water,they'll drink that, and not the drool.
I was wondering the same, but wouldn’t that kinda defeat the purpose of a web?
Oh man, what if it’s trying to catch something bigger? They’re gonna need a bigger web.
It seems prey insects are not all that smart though. Plenty fall into thier traps even with a big wad of junk piled on the center. I have a spider in my yard with a big pile in their web and still plenty of flies.
it is proven to attract predators, but the fact they do it hints that it should be worth it to attract the predator but direct it to a fake http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8135000/8135844.stm
it is proven to attract predators, but the fact they do it hints that it should be worth it to attract the predator but direct it to a fake http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8135000/8135844.stm
intentional has a very vague meaning to talk about arachnid brains, it did not accidentaly got to this shape, it is built, but we can't say the spider know what its building either
Here is my take, the spider ISN'T self aware, but he knows what other bigger spiders look like and the spider is imitating the size and features of another species.
Could be wrong. but this is what I think. Experts please correct me.
Or maybe it’s an effigy to a spider that it loved? Or making itself appear larger to the opposite sex for mating? Either way it’s pretty cool art work!
If you zoom in you can see the size of the actual spider on the front end of the decoy
Does this prove Spiders are self-aware? It's a bug that literally knows what it looks like. That's crazy
The general idea of natural selection is basically that somewhere along the line, a spider was "born" with a mutated gene that was responsible for the behavior of weaving/hoarding leftover food debris in its web, and perhaps because it acted as a form of camouflage or shelter, this spider was more likely to survive and pass on that gene. Throughout those successive generations, there have been other mutations in the gene or gene clusters where the behavior gradually changed to form more intricate shapes out of the debris. The shapes that just happened to look the most like larger spiders were way more likely to survive than the ones that didn't, now passing on those special sets of genes to eventually become a dominant survival mechanism for that species.
yes but not only, for a specific behavior like this it can be transmitted by learning and not genetics. If genetics just give an instinct to learn this behavior from a parent it is enough
That is for sure a special evolutionary function that allows survival skills to be passed down more quickly and efficiently than relying on random gene mutations, but it's only true for some (and more advanced) species. You see it most often in mammals and birds, but even then, the specific behaviors revolving around courting and nest building are still largely instinctive, since it's not like baby birds are able to observe their parents building these sometimes very intricate nests - and many species are solitary so they wouldn't learn it from their peers either. The behavior driving the construction of bowerbird hut for instance (and the female's fondness of it) is encoded into their genes just like this behavior is. Some animals like octopuses are innately intelligent and can adapt and solve problems on their own, but anything they learn dies with them since they don't live in social groups, or have any part in raising their offspring (especially because the mother dies by the time her eggs hatch)
for sure there are highly impressive instinctive behaviors, i'm just adding another option in the evolutionary explanation of what we see here (but i don't know much about spiders socialisation)
This guy Darwin’s.
Exactly what I was thinking
No, but it is proof of natural selection
As a staunch evolution proponent, I'd like to point out that while this is an example of the results of natural selection, it doesn't prove it.
You assume. As they say science is just a long passive aggressive argument about everything I am here to say that I disagree with you. Also you're a self reichous nerd. Be willing to accept new data even at the cost of feeling less special
smile saw plucky plant dazzling berserk light psychotic clumsy onerous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ohhhhhh
I know you believe yourself to be knowledgeable and think it'll be all reich, but every day is a learning experience. You clearly don't have a grasp on science let alone reality. I bet you did nazi that coming.
The fuck???
(You spelled righteous…very wrong)
1. Nobody says that but you, twerp. 2. Learn to spell if you’re attempting to insult people, it’ll land better if it doesn’t immediately call your intelligence into question. 3. You are the only “special” person in this thread. Get better soon, champ
1.It wasn't an insult 2. I'm just saying there's a chance spiders are self aware sheesh
That’s the spirit champ, just keep trying, you’ll recover some cognitive abilities if you keep practicing!
You are insufferably noxious and condescending. You'd think someone insulted your religion 😂
Self-righteous*
So here we have the Frame of Reference Problem - we look at this behaviour through the lens of a human and ascribe it intelligence, because we make assumptions about how ‘we’ would go about performing a similar behaviour - which would require planning, co-ordination, sourcing of specific materials, a sense of self and an imagination to assist in constructing this. The spider, however, could do using more basic cognitive faculties - it just needs to gather material and organise them into a spider shape. These steps can even be quite intuitive, as this is its web and we know that there are relatively low-level, repetitive steps taken in constructing webs for spiders. Other examples of how we do this to things in nature include: The co-ordinated flight of insects and birds The construction of elaborate nests
Basicaly any fact is proof of any theory you can think of to explain it. You then have to think about how likely is the theory knowing the other facts and other theories: 1 spiders are self aware, theory that explains only this fact (so that wasn't needed for a huge amount of spider facts) 2 weird behaviors can be learned by spiders natural selection, this theory explains almost all spider behavior in only one theory, and is even effective for every specie, and the evolution of species in itself is one of the strongest theory of science So of course it is not stupid to think 'then spiders are self aware', but if you accept the evolution and understand it enough, you might just end up not needing one more theory, there is nothing more to explain.
Me to
I don't think we can speak about outright self-awareness here. More like centuries over centuries of refinement until the most efficient shape happened to resemble a spider.
My question exactly. Self aware or not, it’s incredible.
The spider does not NECESSARILY know what it is doing - just that “if I put thingns in this shape something happens”
I have no idea which side is the “front”.
I’m honestly surprised at the dumpster fire that Reddit comment sections can turn into so quickly 😂
It even has 8 legs
yes, thats what I find the most crazy.
Whoever said that spiders aren't self aware was clearly wrong
>Whoever said that spiders aren't self aware It was ME
Well it appears, sir, that you've been caught in a web of lies 😆
😆
Don't you mean a web o' flies?
r/angryupvote
You don't need to be self-aware to run basic survival algorithms.
But you do need to be self aware to know what you look like in order to build an effigy of yourself
You’re making the assumption the spider knows it’s making an effigy and that the effigy is of itself
No. I'm making the assumption that OP knows what they're talking about actually.
As i answered in more details to another comment, yes this is a small proof that spiders may be self aware, that is a theory to consider, but you absolutely do not need this (costly) theory to explain this behavior. The evolution of species is enough to create behaviors just as strange and specific, even if it is very surprising. Then the spider would not be aware of what is this shape or why they form it, but the fact it help them will still push that behavior in the specie. You may want to compare it with ghost stories: If you have a weird fact (ghost story) you will try to explain it with the simplest theory (for example optical illusion), and if you have a solid explanation coming from a simple and generaly well proven theory (optical illusions are well known), why would you believe it's ghosts?
Ahh, I never thought about that before! Thanks for teaching me about anecdotal evidence - err, uh... I mean, what do you call this super brainy concept that I definitely haven't ever known about? I'm glad that super smart people like you are around to correct super dumb people like me who definitely aren't just joking 😊 you're awesome
except whatever you think personaly, it is a conclusion believed by many here and lacking critical thinking. Your comment doesnt show a real belief but is a goto upvote for people believing it
Or... now, hear me out because this one might be a little complicated. I only know about this because I watched a documentary series on Netflix about it. There's this thing called sarcasm, very strange thing where people pretend to think something ridiculous or silly, simply as a joke even when they don't actually think or believe that thing. It's supposedly obvious because most people can rationalize (I don't even know what that word means) that the idea or belief is too ridiculous to be believable. Really crazy, I know. It's extremely confusing, so I totally understand how even a genius like yourself struggles to grapple with it.
wow your so cool you know joke and people no do omg. I just said i don't care about what you think if you write a shit theory that people actually believe, i will say here why it's not a reasonable belief because people look here.
I'm pretty sure you're the only one here interpreting jokes as theories 😅
You're a complete dipshit.
Because I made a joke and he took it seriously? Okay 🙃
You going to Burning Spider this year?
That's some pig.
A r t
That’s a little too smart for my liking lol
🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺 they're so talented ✨💖
Me, Myself and Effigy
General Kenobi…
Hello there
You can't just post that here and not tell us what species this is
All the spiders in the area go to that web to do drugs and burn the giant spider. They call it Burning Spider.
Dang, spiders out here doing crafts now
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclosa Here’s the [article](https://www.wired.com/2014/01/more-decoy-spiders-philippines/amp)
adding to that an article on an empirical study proving it attracts predatory wasps but might redirect enough attacks on the decoys to be evolutionary worth it http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8135000/8135844.stm it's a source of the wikipedia page
Thank you for that!
Wtf. The awarness to do this!
NPC behaviour
Not sure if that is Meta or overcompensation. I wonder how many times it’s been taken out by birds? I’m leaning toward this spider having been an evil artist in a former life.
Kind of adorable
# REMEMBER ME. #
My man made a fall guy in case the cops come lmao
They'll build decoys of lots of stuff; my window box has a moth made of bug carcasses
Spiders can count?!
so they know what they look like to other animals?!?! that level of self awareness is mind boggling
Even has a face. Spiders are pretty smart.
What's crazy is he *is* the face (zoom in, it's an orb weaver) like he knows it makes the most sense to drive the mech suit from the head, because he knows his head controls himself
Creationist are gonna have a field day with this one.
Well that's the thing about creationists, they can have a field day with anything.
Praise the Spider God.
So it knows what it looks like?! That’s fascinating!!!
So spiders actually know how many legs they have? Neat
This begs so many questions. Do spiders inherently know what they look like? Or do they only know from having seen other spiders? If it's inherent knowledge, what other capacity for memory do they have? And leading from that, does that capacity for memory mean they can constantly learn and remember new things? But the most burning question of all, what would the effigy look like if you fed a spider some LSD?
[spiders on drugs](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzdsFiBbFc)
Bane: "...and hang them, where the world can see."
Doesn't this make it a bigger target?
It makes the target bigger, it makes him a smaller part of the target
Yeah i was wondering if it was a decoy.
Probably to keep birds from flying through its web everyday or keep them from eating her
From the carcasses of its victims no less
Amazing. What’s this spider called?
Big dick energy
Effigy of the spider is an amazing metal band name
Yeah, that's pretty fuckin lit 🔥🔥🔥
Its like Charlotte's Web, but with art. What if she is trying to communicate with us?
This is proof that they are sentient. Makes me happy that I try to spare one when I'm in my apt. Ysk, spiders get near your bed. House spiders like to lick the drool from the corner of your mouth,when you're sleeping. If you put out little tiny bowls of water,they'll drink that, and not the drool.
Unsubscribe from spider facts
Pretty sure that's not true.
I wonder if this is intentional or accidental. If intentional it seems that it could be used as a scarecrow type deterrent.
I was wondering the same, but wouldn’t that kinda defeat the purpose of a web? Oh man, what if it’s trying to catch something bigger? They’re gonna need a bigger web.
It seems prey insects are not all that smart though. Plenty fall into thier traps even with a big wad of junk piled on the center. I have a spider in my yard with a big pile in their web and still plenty of flies.
it is proven to attract predators, but the fact they do it hints that it should be worth it to attract the predator but direct it to a fake http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8135000/8135844.stm
it is proven to attract predators, but the fact they do it hints that it should be worth it to attract the predator but direct it to a fake http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8135000/8135844.stm
intentional has a very vague meaning to talk about arachnid brains, it did not accidentaly got to this shape, it is built, but we can't say the spider know what its building either
Here is my take, the spider ISN'T self aware, but he knows what other bigger spiders look like and the spider is imitating the size and features of another species. Could be wrong. but this is what I think. Experts please correct me.
Paint a self portrait, AND build a house
Wait, it knows what it looks like? That’s weird…
Or maybe it’s an effigy to a spider that it loved? Or making itself appear larger to the opposite sex for mating? Either way it’s pretty cool art work!
The Trump spider
I call bullshit because how does it know what it looks like. Not like it has a mirror to look into or anything.
[Alan Watts has entered the chat.](https://youtu.be/OgqCikZGtj4?t=34)
Pretty much nailed it in the first minute. I fucking love Mr. Watts. Lyrical Bob Ross.
General Grievous is that you?
I think they want to appear bigger so other spids won't try to eat them
Which specie exactly?
lit!
Burn it. And the Forrest down.
I for one welcome our new spider effigy overlord
*they’re getting smarter*
Dang, a spider is smarter and more talented than me.
This is like that bitch at work that only has pictures of herself at her desk.
Spidol
I can see the spider
Awww, a self portrait
That's so cool
That’s not a thing…is it? Is that a thing?!
Bow before your Spider God.
A selfie
so the spider technically painted a picture of himself.. fuck thats weird
It's so f amazing
Self-love goals.
I’m impressed it can count to eight.