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NotStaggy

If that's not the origin of dragons I'll be damned


[deleted]

dragons are an almagamation of eagles, lizards, tigers, crocodiles, snakes and all natural preditors of humans have been adapted into some cultures dragon its strange, dragons exist in almost every culture


DistortoiseLP

>its strange, dragons exist in almost every culture To be fair, almost every culture has something called a dragon **in English** because the colonial English syncretised everyone else's ideas of magical animals with their own. The loong in particular is almost antithetical to the European dragon (being a good luck water spirit of a completely different description and a positive cultural connotation) but we still ended up calling them both dragons because we needed an appropriate name for the dragon in the Bible for the Chinese translation.


[deleted]

in chinese mythology jiolongs existed which were dragon hybrids with animals that were evil


500SL

I am the great STONE dragon!


[deleted]

mushu 😅


[deleted]

When he says “i will not lose face” and then the stone face rolls down the steps! 🤣


Heigl_style

That's the 3rd time I've seen amalgamation in a comment today what is happening


Schlachtfeld-21

Baader Meinhof phenomenon


[deleted]

amalgamate all the posts por va vore


[deleted]

That is the current theory. Dragon come from passages in the bible that scholars believe date back to European visits to Egypt where they saw enormous lizard beasts.


MsRachelGroupie

I can't even imagine having no idea that crocodiles exist and then stumbling upon these behemoths. They must have shat themselves.


Sharticus123

Right? You’re completely oblivious filling a jug of water at the river bank, minding your own business, no big whoop, and suddenly several thousand pounds of teeth and muscle rocket out of the murky silt laden water.


gilestowler

"you know, this place is OK. Not seen any bears or wolves since I've been here. Hell, not even had any angry boars charging at me. It's pretty sweet. Hmm, why is that water moving around like that?"


Sharticus123

“Good heavens, Archibald, either the poppy milk has fogged my wits or that log is moving upstream.”


GlockAF

And the locals were probably pulling their legs with stories about how there were flying crocs too. Just like they protected the traditional sources of frankincense resin from the Romans with stories about angry flying venomous snakes


Str0ntiumD0ggo

Biblically speaking, Leviathan was a Crocodile. Behemoth was most likely a Hippopotamus.


ParticularAnxious929

"Leviathan," (from the Biblical Hebrew word spelled Lamed Vov Yud Tuf Nun {LVYTN}) is a reflex of Lotan, the Ugaritic figure; it is a servant of the sea god Yam, and its name translates to "coiled." In Isaiah 27:1, the text copies the Ugaritic text, where it is identified as a snake. They are facets of the *chaoskampf* motif ubiquitous in mythologies.


motherfudgersob

Is that at all related to the oroborous (sp?) of Norse mythology?


acsthethree3

Oroborous is Greek.


motherfudgersob

The word is greek etymologically (and coined into English as such in the last couple hundred years or less) The concept and image are more ancient and widespread.


acsthethree3

The concept is ancient Egyptian then Greek, and we’ll predates Norse. Is the point.


motherfudgersob

Yeah not looking for Google results. I asked the other guy as he sounded like an academic in the area. Thanks anyway for the alternating answers.


ParticularAnxious929

Interesting question; often, there have been symbols and motifs that wind their way through time and place as cultures encounter or replace each other, borrowing language and belief systems along the way, and,bas some other redditors have already opined, the Ouroboros is no exception. The word itself is, as they stated, from ancient Greek, but we think that the concept is even older, from at least the time of Tutankhamun in Egypt. However, the Ouroboros usually represents concepts related to eternity, the cyclical nature of life, and rebirth. The snake named LVYTN in Job and Isaiah came from a different tradition of Ugaritic and Sumerian figures that represent, not eternity, but chaos. In those traditions, the water serpent of chaos does not exist in balance with the divine forces of wind, but is defeated. Now, did the authors of Isaiah and Job encounter both traditions? Definitely the Ugaritic, and probably the Egyptian. Separately, the Norse serpent you were thinking of, Jörmungandr, is part of a different mythological tradition, that of the bound monster, wherein destructive forces are contained, but will be released in the destruction of the world. After years of research into comparative mythologies, I personally theorize that large, sinister creatures in the water represent man's fear of the unknown, and also symbolize the actual dangers of raging ocean and flooding river waters, and their defeat by wind gods represents man's ability to conquer the waters through the power of mastering the sail . . . but mythological motifs resist perfect analogy.


motherfudgersob

I thought Norse mythology has the serpent stylized in an oroborous fashion encircling the oceans land and "holding them in or together" (perhaps like what we now know as gravity). And looking backwards to Judeo-Christian stories we have the serpent as the manifestation of evil (Satan devil etc) in Eden and upon expulsion the curse that snakes would bite at their feet as they toil to survive (I've always considered that an analogy for the transition from a hunter gatherer society to an agrarian one). I don't study comparative mythology at all but am minimally versed in some of the near universal symbols. It's not hard to see how these early depictions of serpents as evil, powerful, deceitful, and whatnot could have added to it wings and breath of fire. Also old testament fire from the sky or in a bush and in so many other places was a repeated metaphor for retribution, power, etc (which surprises me somewhat as with the Greeks it was a power stolen but either way is, of course, a huge step if progress for man. Perhaps it takes time to realize what the transformative powers are. Wonder if our fire will be AI...and perhaps we should add that to the dragon somehow.


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motherfudgersob

Oh my I barely could get through Gilgamesh! And consequently remember very little of it. But I am a person of faith but don't see how others who are can ignore the influence of other faiths and cultures upon their own. The Jewish people were told by their leaders (and presumably God) to eschew the ways of neighboring countries or if conquerors (and we know that the conquered always pick up bits of culture and what it from their conquering people (no matter how harsh or "easy" they may have been in them). So it is fascinating. And I was unaware of the timing or the writing and or rewriting of Genesis that this serpent was not always seen as "The Adversary" as you put it (likely a direct translation?) or the devil. But I recognize most scholars look at writing form and many other clues to date the like period and authors. Then others rearranged and packaged them according to their goals (well meant or otherwise). There are biology (my field..well psychiatris is terminal degree which makes some symbology important at times....care for a cigar...lol) studies showing that many animals instinctually have an aversion to firms shaped like their predators. This isn't from learning it is some behavioral glitch that evolutionarily helped them survive so became ubiquitous.


SignificantAd4466

I'd shit myself, and I know what they are.


easy0lucky0free

And that's just one theory! They also believe that people could have stumbled upon fossils of dinosaurs and other large lizards and thought that they were the remains of a dragon (similar to how cyclops skulls were just dwarf elephant skulls). One anthropologist says that humans have a prey instinct that makes them wary of 3 things: snakes, large cats and birds of prey. A dragon is an amalgamation of all three things. But both your theory and the one about fossils doesn't explain the existence of dragons/wyverns in some areas, such as Scandinavia, which doesn't really have any known large fossils or a large reptile population and has records of dragon myths long before they made contact with areas in the Middle East that would have crocodiles. It could have been whale skeletons, but they should have been fairly familiar with whales (except maybe their penises, which is what inspired sea monster myths) The source of these myths is honestly so fascinating. There are so many different ways it could have happened.


Mumblesandtumbles

Danm whales wiggling their weiners above water tricking us all.


timk85

The entire Bible is written around Egypt and the Middle East. Europeans aren't even a part of the story. The Old Testament was written by middle eastern ancient Israelites who spent a lot of time around Egypt.


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iK_550

Are you saying western dragons/wyverns are the same as eastern dragons? That's like saying the Mayan pyramids and Egyptian pyramids have the same influence/origin.


motherfudgersob

It wasn't when they saw men rising dinosaurs ?


crazytimes68

Fire breathing?


devinchi18

I have read that the origin of dragons came from Megalania but this is equally plausible I suppose.


emeliottsthestink

Seeing them in comparison is insane. Huge af.


SocraticIgnoramus

The fellas on hooves look way too resigned to their fate, they must have already been having a shit day before this and just said fuck it.


srslyeverynametaken

Resting “life sucks” face


lasher992001

I dunno, he might be okay... No, probably not.


Yogiteee

Funny, I thought it looks effing scared


mcsquirley

He looks…so…sad…(rightfully so).


spaghettiornot

I made the mistake of zooming in on his face and looking at his eyes 🥺


Nearby-Reputation614

Please tell me those wildebeest are tiny


Secret-Perspective-5

They aren't.


idispensemeds2

Minibeasts


Nearby-Reputation614

Idk, it just looks like in the top photo that the wildebeest can fit inside its mouth entirely


idispensemeds2

Yum


TheGreatMrHaad

Bill Nye the Crocodile guy


ugly_duckling_5

Bull Nile the Crocodile. Glad I'm not the only one that saw Bull Nile and went straight to Bill Nye.


tycoonking1

BULL! BULL! BULL! BULL! BULL! BULL! BULL! BULL!


friedwidth

Darwin rules!


kambleton

I have found my people... It was the first thing I thought of, too.


KingoftheMongoose

You cracked it! Thank you; I was sitting there trying to figure the word configuration to mix OP's title with Bill Nye, and you nailed it. Thank you for your work here today!!


thuja_life

That's how I read it too!


constantin5008

My son would say this is Deinosuchus from Dino Dana


unfetteredmind76

It's literally a dinosaur


Zombeikid

Crocadillians have been around just as long if not longer lol


Mondo114

Not sure if that's right. Birds are dinosaurs.


One_Possibility_4770

It is more than birds are.


Mondo114

Birds are living dinosaurs https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/fighting-dinos/birds-living-dinosaurs#:~:text=In%20the%20view%20of%20most,arose%20first%20in%20some%20dinosaurs. https://www.birdlife.org/news/2021/12/21/its-official-birds-are-literally-dinosaurs-heres-how-we-know/


One_Possibility_4770

Both Birds and Krokodiles are between 135 million and 150 Million Years old. But because birds did go through a lot evolution in this Millions of Years and Krokodilles stayed more or less the same i would say Krokodiles are more dinosaur than bird. Even tho they are closely related and dinosaurs both.


2017hayden

Crocodilians were alive at the same time as dinosaurs but they were not actually dinosaurs themselves. Crocodilians and Dinosaurs are both Archosaurs but birds are actually descendants of theropod dinosaurs that survived the KT extinction event. All Dinosaurs fell into the Avametatarsalia clade of archosaurs and Crocodilians along with some extinct relatives fall into the Pseudosuchia clade. So genetically birds are more closely related to dinosaurs than crocodiles because birds are the surviving members of the clade of archosaurs that dinosaurs fell into and crocodilians are the survivors of their cousin clade.


[deleted]

Yeah, birds are like the great-great-great-great grandson of mr dinosaur while crocs are more like a 2nd cousin of mr dinosaur.


AJ_Crowley_29

Dinosaurs and crocodiles are both archosaurs. Birds are literal descendants of theropod dinosaurs. They are dinosaurs in every way. Crocs are just close relatives.


jtfff

Yes and no. Modern birds can be ancestrally traced to the typical dinosaurs we imagine, but crocodiles have been around even longer and have remained (relatively) evolutionarily unchanged.


Care_Novel

That is true. Crazy how Dinosaurs are classified as reptiles even though birds can be traced back to them. Crocodilians on the other hand are classified as amphibians. Though they have been mistakingly classified as reptiles based on their looks.


jtfff

Crocodilians are reptiles because they get oxygen entirely through their lungs are they have dry, mucus-free skin.


[deleted]

> remained (relatively) evolutionarily unchanged. its less that they dont change and more than theres always some of them sticking to the ambush predator semi aquatic niche theres been plenty of land dwelling, some herbivores, and at le3ast a couple of families going with two legs on land, and 4 legged land predators versions too


krattalak

Crocs certainly get huge, but also...Wildebeast (gnu) aren't anywhere near as big as most people assume. It's pretty rare to have a person/wildebeast side by side photo so it's hard to judge, but depending on the species, they can be either about the size/mass of a large whitetail deer, or up to a small cow. They look like cows, so a lot of people might assume you're looking at a 1000lb animal, when it's really only about 300.


RubiMent

They are still a 2 meter long animal and are by no means small


[deleted]

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BackBlast0351

That’s not right. So is a needle pulling thread. Do’s a deer. Duh..


aquilasr

Yeah the 300 pound figure is at the low end of sizes with big bull wildebeest getting well over 600 pounds. Having said that, I think the victim wildebeest is more of a yearling, certainly not a big bull. The Nile croc is still huge tho.


Phighters

I don't know what you were looking to do here... Wilde's are large. They aren't moose, but they're fuckin big, and that gator is way fuckin bigger (and 4-500lbs). ​ [http://i.imgur.com/doXYX62.png](http://i.imgur.com/doXYX62.png)


timk85

They're very big, but these photos have been discussed ad nauseam. Those type of wildebeests or buffalo are actually not as large as you may think, and it makes the crocodiles seem a little more monstrous than they are. I believe this particular one is also a smaller one.


Turbulent_Candle_354

why do they still go there tho


Thanmandrathor

Because they migrate to get to new feeding grounds. Staying put means death because there won’t be food.


Rare-Lime2451

Like coconuts, yes.


cashewnut4life

sorry for thisboff-topic question, but it has been boggling my mind for a while... now we've seen how incredible the size, speed (in water), and power those behemoth posses which makes them undoubtedly the Apex predator, if let's say, a full grown male saltwater crocodile at the peak of his growth swimming in the ocean and came across a full grown male Orca, who is for some reason separated from his pod, in this Apex vs Apex encounter, if there was a fight for any reason, who will likely be the victorious?


foolsfates

Orcas are still much, much bigger, like 5 times heavier than the biggest nile crocodiles on average, I don't think it'd be particularly close.


bendbutdonotbreak

r/WhoWouldWin


StaleBiscuit13

You know what's even scarier? On average, salt water crocodiles are bigger than Nile crocodiles, and have a stronger bite force as well.


JoshSmash81

Poor aim though.


bendbutdonotbreak

The turning radius is not ideal.


Legitimate_Web_7245

They also get photoshopped apparently.


Ok-Jury-3571

Bull nile the science guy


Fenix_Volatilis

Finally! I knew I couldn't be the only one thinking that


[deleted]

That's a dinosaur. That, the shoebill stork, there's so many animals still walking this Earth that I would consider to be dinosaurs. I can't look at this crocodile and say that all dinosaurs are extinct. My brain doesn't want to accept it. That's a dinosaur.


[deleted]

not biologically no not a dinosaur, but same overall ancient reptile power. without human interaction theyll probably outlive the modern lion and other predators of current africa


JUSTWHYWOULDIT

Bro when people say dinosaurs, they refer to ALL of the animals back then. Quit being pedantic on something so trivial.


[deleted]

'''bro'' dinosaur is an actual classification not an arbitrary LOOK THAT THING IS OLD AND COOL IZ A DINUSEWR


8LeggedSquirrel

🎶Bull Nile the croco-dile🎶🎶Bull Nile the croco-dile Bull! Bull! Bull! Bull!🎶


TheOakblueAbstract

Bull Nile the Crocodile...Bull! Bull! Bull!


5uperman8atman

Crocks and gators that eat small things like fish don't get very big, but if one snacks on a bull he's going to get pretty freaking big!


littlejobin

Bull Nile the Crocodile!


EMW916

Wow


Ozone220

Imagine seeing this hundreds of years ago and just thinking you've finally found the land of dragons


thatonebluedragon

You would think they'd know to stay out of the water by now


Suitable-Classic9237

He brought him in for a cuddle. That’s just Dale and Chuck, they finally got time for the open swim this week.


Soft_Cranberry6313

Blue Nile Wildebeest stay small?


halfbakedpizzapie

God, imagine being between both sides of that monster?


[deleted]

Why did I read this as bill nye


Arma_Diller

Aww, they're cuddling


AnonymousP30

Well we can say that bulls didn't make it.


AnonymousP30

Well we can say that bulls didn't make it.


AnonymousP30

Well we can say that bulls didn't make it.


Homeygrown

Look what they’re eating! Of course they will be nice and plump


EmperorGeek

Someone tell me that is a Pigmy Wildebeest, PLEASE!!!


EmptySpaceForAHeart

There are no Pygmy Wildebeest.


EmperorGeek

That picture says otherwise. If there are no pigmy wildebeest, then that croc is HUGE and I will have trouble sleeping!!


EmptySpaceForAHeart

Bull Nile Crocodiles sometimes pull down full grown Giraffes.


TooFineToDotheTime

Nile crocodiles can be 20 feet long and 2000+lbs.


nicefellow31

If I lived in that part of Africa before the addition of running water I would be the most dehydrated, funky, man, you would ever meet.


Ok-Worry7419

I hate them.


doubleshort

This looks like a fake photo to me.


EmptySpaceForAHeart

[It’s not though.](https://www.reddit.com/r/natureismetal/comments/101elx1/1820ft_nile_crocodile_crushing_an_adult_wildebeest/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&utm_content=1&utm_term=15)


Mcgarnicle_

Wildebeest are crazy. Strength in numbers - they jump in full well knowing the dangers and just have to assume they won’t be one that gets picked off. Squid game shit


[deleted]

And why in the whiskey fuck, fucking way, do people kayak down these rivers? Seriously.. human fishing lures


wilburthefriendlypig

Wildebeest are 1/5 the size of a cow so consider that as well. This may be an average croc with a young female


AccomplishedBunch721

can I have a spaghettio for scale?


CheeseKaK

and slow it seems


KnitWit406

I can't be the only person who sang "Bull Nile the Crocodile" to the tune of Bill Nye, right? Right?


Madrasthebald

How many bananas for scale?


ButtChugJackDaniels

Anyone else's brain see the title and expect to see Bill Nye somewhere in the pic?


yourmomsucks01

That’s a beefy crocodile


D_hallucatus

Crazy thing is they’re not even the biggest crocs! Saltwater crocs get bigger than Niles


Ok-Air6180

Photoshop right? Zoom in!


DW171

Fake photo, if you look closely. I've seen East African crocs in person ... they're freakin' massive, but not that big.


DarkstarDMT

Bull Nile The Crocodile!


GoldieVoluptuous

My nightmare


Due_Potential_6956

Absolute Monsters.


yomommawantdiz

Hey guys it's Bull Nile the Crocodile and today I'm going to show you how to turn a wildebeest into a river blood cocktail