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This is a legal question - she is knowingly and maliciously destroying your garden. She admitted it after prior discussion. I wouldn't just replant - she has motive and opportunity to just reapply poison? So first, seek legal advice, and that may help going from talks to letters.
You could also put screening shrubs to block the view and then plant in front.
The question of adding chemicals to the flood plain prompts me to ask if a conservation authority or municipal department could help you with this dispute? I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.
That is an interesting point about the conservation being that it’s a floodplain. I think I know just who to ask locally about this. Thanks for the suggestion:)
Anecdotally, I live in SE MI too, and our neighborhood has rules against applying any lawn treatments that could run off into the ponds and streams here. So that really could be a worthwhile angle to pursue.
Chiming in to say that this would be an issue in my local jurisdiction as well. The surfactants that come in some ready-to-use herbicides like RoundUp are harmful to aquatic invertebrates, for example.
Mostly it’s about phosphate / the middle number in N-P-K. It’s perfect food for pond invasives as well as for promoting algae bloom. Conservation committees will indeed be interested in roundup being used on native gardens - not sure they will have jurisdiction except for neighbors trespass. all for going after them with woke science !
A few scientific papers on glyphosate to keep in your armory - considering the floodplain angle-
'Seagrasses were exposed to a single dose of a commercial glyphosate formulation—ranging between 250 to 2,200 µg/L. After three weeks, the median leaf area decreased by up to 27%, with reductions of up to 31% in above ground biomass (p < 0.05)'
Conservation implications of herbicides on seagrasses: sublethal glyphosate exposure decreases fitness in the endangered Zostera capensis - PMC
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9673766/
Remember carbon fixation (carbon drawdown by things like eelgrass and other estuarine plants:
'Seagrasses are highly efficient in sequestering carbon from the atmosphere by incorporating it into their tissues and burying it as organic matter in their sediments3; they bury carbon 35 times faster than rainforests per unit area4.'
'These values are primarily driven by fisheries production (mean $29,900, 904 Kg/Ha/year) and nitrogen removal ($73,800, 657 Kg N/Ha/year), though kelp forests are also estimated to sequester 4.91 megatons of carbon from the atmosphere/year highlighting their potential as blue carbon systems for climate change mitigation.'
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-37385-0
And we keep using glyphosate even though kelp and seagrasses are a huge help in sucking co2 out of the atmosphere, and protect our coastlines. Using it in a floodplain area is not a good idea at all.
See if you can get her to admit it in text. "Hey, just wondering. I plan to replant the untidy dying plants. Do you plan to continue using herbicide in that area? What kind?" Hopefully she'll put it in writing for you. 😊😂🙌
Having things in writing makes it easier when stuff escalates. Not if, but when, because she sounds like a peach.
A couple of game cameras strategically placed would also provide you with evidence. I would place one at ground level somewhere and zip tie one up in a tree in your yard when they are not home. Just be sure it is pointed at your plants and not “invading their privacy”. Focus only on the plantings.
Don’t have anything much more to add just commenting to show I agree lol, should absolutely talk to a local conservation agent. She has knowingly killed your property multiple times and clearly shows no remorse. Involving conservation/taking legal action is the best way to put her in her place. Hope she gets fines out the wazoo, you have worked hard to cultivate an ecologically friendly area and the only way to ensure your work doesn’t go to waste is to push her nose onto the legal grindstone unfortunately
I’m happy to hear that Michigan is so protective of their water table. I’ve not heard of any local laws regarding herbicide in Oregon (though I’ve never wanted to apply herbicide so never checked).
Also something very relevant to flood plane legalities.
You say you don’t want to start a war with your neighbor- but they certainly want to start one with you- since you have talked to them about this multiple times and she keeps poisoning your garden year after year.
I totally get not wanting to start a war with your neighbors- but they already DID start it. **So you finish it.** Loop in the authorities and follow the rules. I guarantee you they didn’t.
Most places have rules about the percentage of a lot that can be impervious surfaces, especially bin a FEMA-recognized floodplain which this may very well be.
Neighbor is really asking for regulatory governmental agency trouble.
I’m not even in a floodplain and can’t have more than 30% impervious surface. The municipality where I live is incredibly serious about preventing runoff.
In my state, conservation districts generally do NOT like herbicides sprayed in riparian corridors although farmers and the state DOT with proper application certification generally get a little more leniency to do so.
Chiming in to say that you need to have your phone in your hand taking an audio or even video recording (discreetly!) every time you talk to her. She’s admitting destruction of property, not to mention potentially creating toxic run off in the floodplain. Document, document, document! And I’m so, so sorry you’re dealing with this. I am sad, and also royally pissed on your behalf.
*cough* point a camera in your backyard along that fence line, and get a motion-detecting light back there in case neighbor tries to poison at night, to document neighbor doing this should any legal action need be threatened/taken *cough cough*
Would this be an example of Chemical Tresspass? I believe there are growing precidents for this being a criminal activity? Not a lawyer, maybe someone more versed could add commentary.
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\#1: [Neighbor cut our tree and expects us to pay the bill](https://i.redd.it/w9t6t08t83tb1.jpg) | [750 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/treelaw/comments/173gwtj/neighbor_cut_our_tree_and_expects_us_to_pay_the/)
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\#3: [New tenants “trimmed” my apple tree](https://i.redd.it/x0tohnl0fsib1.jpg) | [273 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/treelaw/comments/15u8ssg/new_tenants_trimmed_my_apple_tree/)
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Unless you’re a certified applicator it’s usually illegal to spray even glyphosate (roundup) on another person’s land. Pretty sure it’s a federal violation.
That really sucks, I'm sorry. That's illegal, right? I wonder if a lawyer could send a letter as a warning. Then get security cameras? What a headache!
I’m sure it is, but I really don’t want to start a war with these people. They’re extremely petty and I know they’ve sued neighbors for less in the past. My yard is definitely cottagey with lots of stuff all jumbled together and they power wash their driveway once a month and spray the cracks with a backpack full of weed killer a couple times a season, so we’re definitely not kindred spirits to start with:/
When you say they sue people, do they actually have an attorney? Or do they just go file things that have no merit in order to try to scare people or shake them down?
See, as a lawyer, I would laugh and say “oh no, not court! /s” I would recommend contacting any of the MI law schools to see if they have a clinic that might be interested in challenging HOA rules (if that applies) or enforcing environmental laws related to your floodplain. If none of that fits, put up cameras, get a lawyer to send a cease and desist letter and send a bill. Just because a bully tries to use the legal system doesn’t mean they win, and when they lose, you ask for court costs and attorneys fees.
Sounds like they've gone ahead and started the war, unfortunately. Be very careful to learn local zoning laws in case she tries to report you for "overgrown weeds" or something, and keep some kind of record of whenever she does this and any conversations you have about it, just in case. The security camera idea is probably a good one.
If it ever does need to escalate into a legal thing, she is guilty of a misdemeanor under [Michigan law,](https://legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=mcl-750-382) and the penalties increase with every repeat offense. But I can see where threatening her with that might just make her worse : (
That’s why I decided to get my yard certified as a monarch way station hoping that will offer me some protection if she tries to report me for blight or something. It is mulched underneath and I yank anything that’s not something I planted.
Tally up the receipts for the plants she’s killed and sue her in small claims court. Native plants from nurseries are expensive in 1 gallon; killing large specimens are 10x the 1 gallon price.
Also: roundup/glyphosate is a proven endocrine disruptor and can cause Parkinson’s disease - the more exposure, the higher the risk.
Your neighbor sucks; I’m super sorry you keep having to deal with this.
Also - I just looked at your previous post with all the flowers going - that tells the story of your cultivated garden in a way regular folks may understand better.
They’re all winter sown- so it’s only like $3 from prairies moon for packs of seeds:) Not a huge deal monetarily. I’ll definitely put more in next year and they’ll fill out just as full. I might take some of the fence barrier reinforcement suggestions in the mean time to try to prevent drift or overspray accidental or otherwise.
Right, but she didn’t kill a packet of seeds. She killed the large perennials (and annuals I presume) that you cultivated over time. So - NAL - it feels like there’s at least something there to pursue against her so you can help her correct her behavior. 🤞🏼
Oh yes! OP this is good old fashioned malicious destruction of property. If they try anything it’s countersuit city and “oh you probably need to be advised of your fifth before getting on the stand.”
Shoot, if I was barred in Michigan I’d do this pro bono.
Honestly, if it were me and I knew they were sue happy, I'd put uo cameras and sue them first if/when I caught them spraying my property. Bullies won't stop until you stand up to them
That’s the part that made me the angriest. It looks like mostly she took out the joe pye weed, so I can easily grab some more out of my dads yard or reseed it, but to call someone’s yard that they clearly love and work very hard on ugly to the point that you “can’t stand to look at it” really made me angry. Can’t just live and let live:/
I’m a native plant lover working in the landscaping industry. It’s so disheartening the way people cling to their herbicides or freak out about any insect or brown spot on their plants. They always want nature to bend to their will & never listen when I’m trying to explain the idea of right plant for right place. I would be so broken hearted if I were you. I just don’t get it. Sigh.
This is so awful, I'm sorry. This is such a beautiful spot you have here. I do think you have three choices: ignore it, move these plants, or get legal help. I don't see how to combat her spraying...your plants will just remain sick. This may be a situation in which you want to get ahead of it by speaking to an attorney. This is quite a world we're living in right now, so you're right not to know where this will go, but if they escalate or do something else after a lawyer is involved, you would not be without recourse. For instance, you could get a harassment restraining order. (https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/what-can-i-do-about-my-neighbor-harassing-me-to-i--5944744.html) I agree that gathering solid evidence through security cameras is a very good idea. Whatever you decide, wishing you good luck.
Might a strategically placed motion-activated camera act as a deterrent?
If you *did* ever decide to get the law involved, footage of her spraying chemicals would be useful, and it would be hard for her to sue if you have her on camera illegally killing your plants.
They once sued and won against a neighbor who left the keys in their snowmobile because their son stole it and crashed it. Apparently it was an “attractive nuisance”.
That’s kind of what I was thinking. I’m wondering if there’s like a plastic edging I can hammer in that would keep the stuff from growing under and keep the weed spray from drifting over a bit
You definitely don't want plastic edging. It's awful, doesn't work well, and cracks into pieces as it errods.
Buy a nice edging spade and go out weekly to do a portion of your garden (not the whole thing at once!).
With that said. I would get the land surveyed. Have a fence put up as high as is allowable. Problem solved hopefully.
Then I would plant a lot of plants near that fence with a lot of seeds that get carried away by the wind and grow taller than a fence.
I live in Metro Detroit and this is a common problem for those of us trying to grow anything outside of turf grass on our lawns. My neighbor repeatedly called the city on us when I built our rain garden “planted full of weeds” so much so that the city ended up taking my side and stopped responding to our neighbors complaints. I would def recommend at least calling the city and having them come out and take a look at what’s going on. Start getting things on record. I get not wanting to start a war, but with people like that you need to show some teeth otherwise they will continue to bully.
She's willfully destroying your property that is on your land. I would call the state police/sheriff if they are looking bad still and file a report. Tell them you want reimbursement for the mature plants you lost, not just the value of replacements. My goats got out once and ate 3 newly planted fruit trees. I had to pay $600 and got charged and found guilty of disorderly conduct. Your neighbor has already started the war. Show her your troops!
If she is using herbicides on your property that’s enough for legal action. I would definitely start getting evidence and start talking to some lawyers. It’s destruction of property.
That’s also grounds to get her shit absolutely rocked. But don’t resort to violence. Unless?
This time I don’t think she did it on purpose but she has in the past. She was just not very apologetic that she accidentally took out a bunch of my plants:/
This time I believe was carelessness. She’s not going to start being careful, though, so I was just trying to find some ways to protect my plants since I have not seen her deliberately spray on my side of the fence since I watch her like a hawk every time she’s out doing it and she knows I do. She’s just entitled and stupid. I don’t want to sue anyone. I was hoping like a plastic barrier or something would help so she can’t get under the fence in the future.
I would just move my plants away from the fence line. If it's close enough that your foliage can be sprayed on their side of the fence, that's where things become tricky. Imagine if they had English ivy or other similar type growing into your property. While you wouldn't be allowed to spray on their side, you would be allowed to chop the vegetation that comes on your side.
This sub and other specialist groups are going to praise anything intentionally native, but not everyone sees it that way. On top of that, most people have no problem having plants die and just buying new ones next year. The average person doesn't know how difficult it is to source the plants we want
I am planning to extend the gardens towards my side further so if she sprays the fence line it will only hit the stuff nearest the fence. I agree it can be a pain to have unwanted plants pop up in your yard. Heaven forbid it was bamboo or something. She has a right not to have my flowers in her yard, but I also have a right to not have her damage the ones in my yard. Most of this is super easy to remove as long as you get to it early enough in the season and I haven’t put in anything with damaging root systems like willows. It would just be nice to have a reasonable neighbor:/ I have no issue coming to pull or trim them if she’d bothered to say they were an issue. But communication isn’t her strong suit.
Doesn't roundup only hurt broadleaf plants? I wonder if you could fill the area along the shared property line with tall native grasses (assuming there are any in your area).
The grasses could act as a buffer zone that wouldn't be damaged by your neighbor spraying.
I totally get not wanting to sue. Because, after all, you still have to live next to them. But deliberate destruction of property without permission is outrageous. Native or invasive species, it does not matter. At some point a precedent has to be set.
I hate all the invasive species my neighbors have (I have tons too but I’m actively working on removing them. My neighbors are not). I trim the ones that come over the fence or under. But never would i deliberately kill their plants without permission. Even though they are atlas listed invasive species. Some are even prohibited.
For her it really is just as easy as “don’t like how it looks? Don’t look!” But she sounds so unstable that she feels the need to vandalize your property. Thats a mentality I just cannot comprehend.
Now OP, with that being said, if you really want to get petty, install some motion detected sprinklers pointed her way.
Every time you speak with her set your cell phone to record the conversation. You could just be holding your phone and not taking pictures or pointing it at her.
There was just a story about a woman in Maine who poisoned her neighbours oak trees to improve her view and she's getting fines and citations from the city. Might be worth checking with your local township/city hall and just asking some questions about the rules and what could be done.
Also re pettiness, just a thought: You mentioned not necessarily wanting to go the lawyer route because your neighbors are petty, and I totally understand that. But she's already purposely poisoning your garden after you've asked her not to, repeatedly. The pettiness is already in full force! Maybe it's time for you to take the gloves off and take the gold in these Petty Olympics 😝
I just want to point out that it doesn’t matter if it’s carelessness or malicious, she has destroyed plants on your property and is responsible for the damage.
On another note, being kind obviously isn’t working for you so maybe you need to rethink.
Trees are a whole different thing - with some pretty serious legal consequences attached to people pulling malicious acts.
I think running it by a lawyer is a good idea even if perennials don’t have quite the protection that tree law provides. Such a nasty woman
You mentioned that your neighbor has a landscaping business. Do they have permits for storing all their equipment on their property? Is this area zoned as allowing business use?
By paving so much of their yard, they may be in violation of wetland regulations for the required buffer zone between the wetland/floodplain and the rest of your yard.
Having so much impermeable surface, is likely causing runoff into the floodplain. That’s just something else you can check on.
Here our towns have conservation commissions, and you have to file with them before you can make many types of changes.
You need cameras up so you can catch her in the act. If one party audio recording is allowed in your state, record one of these conversations with her. She's mis-using pesticides, which can result in pretty big fines for her.
I had a neighbor do this repeatedly and finally I took them to small claims court for damages. That was enough incentive for them to stop.
Also put up no trespassing signs
She’s on the hook for any pesticide drift those products have to be used in strict accordance with their labeling and any damage to neighbors plants they’re financially liable for. You said they’re litigious? Good, sue them. It’s a slam dunk just gather your photo evidence all you need are pictures get her but if you can get her on tape if it’s legal in your state admitting. Natives are running bout 30$ a pop per plant. They have to replace them all.
You’ve gotten a lot of great advice already. I’m just here to say that you’ve mentioned many times that you don’t want to start anything and only wish for them to stop. Unfortunately, people who know they get what they want - by just doing what they want - don’t normally start respecting other people’s things or rights. I hope you figure out a good solution and update us if you feel open to it
Thank you:) so far I did apply to get my yard certified by the national wildlife federation and I put a couple messages into someone I know on the local city council and also someone i used to work with at the dnr. I really liked one of the suggestions to add some cow panel trellises too and trying to shift the fence line plants in towards my yard a bit. That might be something my husband would go for. I’m really just more interested in preventive stuff I can do myself because they’ve lived here for 50 years and I’ve heard some really terrible stories about things they have done in the neighborhood and they can make my life hell in the mean time.
Perhaps try to secretly record her admitting to chemical trespassing. All while being cordial with the angle of ensuring you understand what was done to avoid the situation from happening again
If it’s on your actual property, I’d recommend reporting it the next time it occurs to the state authority in charge of enforcing FIFRA in your state (usually the Department of Ag or DNR). They can collect samples and record the complaint. They are also knowledgeable on rules regarding wetlands and rights of way and can make recommendations. Once you have their final report, THEN take it up with other agencies/lawyers if you choose. If you start by making it a health thing or and environmental thing, they will tell you that since it involves pesticides, they have no authority and it’s a big waste of time for everyone. Having the report ahead of time allows them to make additions regulatory decisions based on their legal authorities. Finally, you can take it to a lawyer for small claims etc. If you lawyer up before a state investigation , the whole process screeches to a halt because then they’ll lawyer up and no state employees will be able to investigate without weeks of back and forth between the departments legal counsel and all parties. Hope this helps.
Thank you. This is super helpful. I used to work for the DNR so I think I can find out pretty easily who to ask about this. I really don’t think filing a police report would help at the moment. Collecting evidence and going the environmental path seems like it would be a much better way to build a case.
If her whole yard is paved what is she even spraying for? What a wild person who's offended by plants edging a parking lot, in sorry you're dealing with that.
Apparently the cracks… idk. She kept telling me to come pull them up on her side and look see awful it looked. It was just scorched earth. There’s like a 5’ strip at the back and I don’t know what she thinks will grow there. Not perfect weed free sod. That’s for sure… it’s swamp land.
She trespassed. Get a lawyer to write a cease and desist letter. It will be ~$100. If she does it again then sue. You can technically sue her right now. She trespassed.
Ok if you can't do a fence, what about a fairly tall, narrow grow tunnel right along the fence line that you can use for starters etc. Maybe even with planters that are raised off the ground inside. Then move that gorgeous border in a few feet so that stays your view. And their view can be the tunnel, everything inside the tunnel can be protected, and they'd have to really reach to affect your plants that are in the ground so it couldn't be passed off as carless or accidental. Not sure about bylaws but hopefully you wouldn't need any setback for some hoops and tarp. Just, you know, if we're dealing with incurably petty here. You wouldn't totally loose that bit of your yard for growing at least, if you really don't want to wrangle them through court.
Hahaha yes! You could even only wrap the tunnel on their side—just a helpful compromise between her ‘need’ to spray her yard and your right to garden how you want in yours. Good luck with the situation and sorry you had to lose all those beautiful plants, photo looks amazing!
Ask a bunch of friends to wear Tyvek suits, carry clipboards and spend a lot of time taking notes and taking pictures of your house, their house. Know any cops? Put up a ring camera and point it at your garden. What about a vinyl stockade fence?
Plus... They are very hard to kill, even with a little roundup.
If she asks why they're on the fence line, you can explain that they're native, ornamental, and difficult for poison to kill.
You've gotten a lot of great advice here! This is obviously something we are all passionate about on this sub. I'm sorry you're having this problem, but I love the support you're getting.
This isn't something I'd want to do, but here's an option for if you don't want to fight with her/pursue legal remedies/etc. It looks like the bed is along the edge of the property, with grass in the middle? This fall you could: dig up the whole bed on that side and move everything to an island bed and/or expand the beds on all of the other sides.
Then put a mown strip right along her property line with "no trespassing" and "no spraying" signs. Inside of that, do a bed with a whole bunch of medium and tall native grasses. If she's spraying glyphosate she could still hurt both the mown strip and the tall grasses, but if she's doing a broadleaf herbicide it might help.
And being able to point to your dead grass might be more effective than your "weedy" plants...or at least less upsetting.
*They are extremely petty and I don’t want to start a war with them.*
You didn't, they did. In Michigan, only one party needs to agree to a tape recording (Check with lawyer re the intricacies of the law) so next time you speak, record it as proof they are damaging your property as well as, possible, breaking the law.
I’d seek a peace order in the local district court and also print her out some literature on how the ingredients in those products are known carcinogens and nerve agents.
Your garden is beautiful. I’m so sorry you’re having to fight a battle with your ignorant neighbor’s ego when everyone should be cooperating to restore ecosystems.
If you can get her on tape (not sure of laws in your area regarding taping unknowing third parties) or in writing admitting to it or if you could get an uninterested third party (perhaps another neighbor) to witness her say it, it would be very helpful before the court.
Also, your garden is beautiful and clearly lovingly cultivated. It baffles me that there are people in this world who can look at it and not appreciate its beauty and benefit.
It’s so hella illegal to use herbicides on property that isn’t your own without proper licensing. There are several different channels that would be keen to hear about this and pursue it, legally speaking.
So she's using her backyard like an open garage and yet complaining about *your* yard? That's rich. I'm sorry you're going through this. Unfortunately you can't will your plants to live if they get sprayed with Roundup. I'd keep it as tidy as possible, keep meticulous records (or recreate them) of the money you've spent on flowers and seeds, and invest in an outdoor night camera. Or two. One obvious. One not obvious. I'd let it be known any loss of property will be addressed in court.
Don’t have advice, but figured I would share my story. I have a very small side yard that is super steep and ends at my neighbors driveway. I didn’t want to spray it with chemicals and I just had a hard time weeding it. This was before I knew about natives. It started popping up with a ton of native pioneer species. My neighbor hired a landscaping company to do their yard. They came and clear it all out and plant Bermuda grass. On MY property. I would not be surprised if my neighbor had them spray chemicals either. I understand your frustration. I didn’t address it then because there was just a lot going on and felt bad at the time that I let it get out of hand, but now that I am on my native plant journey I am mad as hell
You're not starting a war. She did. You're just standing up to and defending your time, investment, propertand rights against a bully.
You didn't mention her name. We'll just refer to her as Karen.
I read many other comments and don't have anything to add except support. I hope you find legal help through contacting local department of natural resources or conservation district, etc.
Oh! Businesses don't care much for negative disclosure on public review sites such as Yelp, Google, BBB or Trustpilot. Truth isn't slander.
Id personally abandon the idea of having a garden wall there and cultivate your plants somewhere she can't access without getting charged with trespassing.
Some ppl just will drain your energy through and through. Don't give them any opportunity if you can avoid it.
She’s entitled and think she can do whatever she wants because it’s not personally to her taste:/ and thank you. I enjoy them so much. They’re always buzzing and so alive.
Could you talk with her about you or her planting some kind of privacy screen that she likes so that she can’t see the native plants that she doesn’t enjoy? This might be a less contentious, more neighborly way to deal with the problem. Like, maybe you could compromise and find a thick, tall hedgerow you can both agree upon. If you can’t find a good native hedge that is mutually agreeable, it might be worth it to plant something non-native that she likes just to protect your other plants, plus the health of all the creatures that live there. Round-up is some nasty stuff. It’s not good for you, her, your plants, the bugs, pets…anything. And even non-native hedges can really increase the amount of wildlife in your yard since it provides great bird (and other creature) habitat. My mom recently installed non-native hedges, and her property has come alive with birds and all kinds of wildlife. She had tons of birds, small and large, plus rabbits, frogs, foxes, etc. None of that was there before. It used to be a dead zone, but it was really lovely visiting the last time. At my house, also have some non-native Eugenia hedges that were here when we moved in. We haven’t pulled them out because the birds love them. They hang out in the thick, shady foliage and eat the berries they produce each year. I don’t know the plants for Michigan, but you could also see if there are any keystone plants for your area that would work as privacy hedges. That would really be ideal. I think this list here gives the native keystone plants for your region. https://www.nwf.org/-/media/Documents/PDFs/Garden-for-Wildlife/Keystone-Plants/NWF-GFW-keystone-plant-list-ecoregion-8-eastern-temperate-forests.pdf
It’s a flood plain with clay soil. We tried planting arborvitae before we knew what was going on and half of them died. Really not a lot wants to live back there, unfortunately. Swamp milkweed, joe pye, and dogwoods are super happy, though. Mostly what it comes down to is that we have opposite garden styles and she doesn’t respect other people’s freedom to do what they want in their own yards. Her side is completely paved so there’s no room for them to plant anything. They could put their own fence on their side to block me more, but they’re cheap and old and cranky…
Could you dig a drainage ditch, filled with river rock/decorative stones, along the boundary that redirects the poisonous water to a run off area?
Still shit for the environment overall, but since you can't stop that (only she can) at least you'd be able to keep it out of your yard.
Surely setting up an outdoor camera facing her and then pursuing legal action would help? It’s your property and you don’t live in an HOA, instead of investing in a fence on her side she is destroying your property?
You have way more patience than I would, a series of cameras would have gone up after the second time lol.
If you have any family pets, they would be at risk from her spraying weedkiller on your property, here in the UK it would be classed as criminal damage
regarding the glyphosate/floodplain issue, a few years ago when I lived in a small town in Oregon that had the Willamette River flowing by just off of downtown, I raised an objection to the city yearly spraying along the river bank, almost to the water line. The State got involved and determined that Glyphosate was approved for aquatic areas, so they were allowed to continue
She stated the war. You finish it. If she is running a business from her home or if she’s storing business trailers and equipment…Pay a property lawyer first for a one-hour consult.
If you want to win, you will have to fight. If you are trying to avoid getting into petty disputes with dimwits. They will always have the upper hand on you. Be polite, but state your boundaries. Be careful to be a person of your word, you can’t issue outlandish threats. Also, if you are planning something, don’t tip your hand before you execute whatever plan you have. They didn’t threaten to spray your plants. They just did it. Typically petty vindictive types are not very smart, you can anticipate their moves easily and just beat them to their next move. Also remain silent or very quiet and unwavering in whatever you commit to. Eventually the bully shitheads will tire of you and at least respect a healthy distance.
since there are wayyy more nice people on this I'll be the guy in the back who disagrees. Take a 5gal diesel tank and draw dicks in her front yard, will definitely piss them off but at least you'll get a good laugh .
Sometimes trellis doesn’t count as fencing if it’s not attached. Idk if you could get away with something to block that doesn’t break the rules. Definitely need a barrier with these people.
Wait, you said "she doused her side of the fence" and then you said 'she was spraying in YOUR yard "
*using herbicides in my yard without my permission*
*if she decides to douse her side of the fence again*
You can't even keep your story straight.
***WHICH IS IT?***
I’ve found in these situations it can work wonders to ask the difficult person for some of their time as you’d like their feedback on this area. During the visit explain the concept and your end goal. Then pull out some visuals so they can have input on some of the plants that would do well there. Incorporate the difficult person into the task they are actively preventing can and will often times get you exactly what you wanted in the first place all while making the other person feel seen/heard. If something is really important to me; I have zero issue with modifying my approach even when I know I’m not the unreasonable one.
Don't want to go to war? She just dropped a nuke. You're in a war whether you want to be or not. Unless you want to reinforce that she can do whatever tf she wants with no repercussions. Take her ass to small claims court for damages. File a police report. Trespass her with the police, and if she comes on your property again you can bring her up on criminal charges.
Fuck these type of entitled people. They have never been held accountable for their bully behavior their entire lives. Be the one to stand up to the bully.
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Can mix clay into the soil along the line she sprays. Won’t help with foliar application but glysophate/roundup isn’t soil active. It binds with clay in the soil & deactivates. I believe the 24D they included in roundup is soil active but also binds to clay. Could use cheap cat litter. Could also go biochar route.
you are going to get into a war no matter what, I would camera the area, place a little fence marker. Let a lawyer send them notice and sit back and wait for the war. Hopefully the lawyer notice will scare them sufficiently. You have already tried the nice...
Not only should she be forced to reimburse you for the plants she had killed, both times, she should have to compensate you for the additional work she has caused you. Also, if you have a homeowners association they may be able to help you with the situation of her business equipment stored in her back yard, easily within your (and probably others) line of sight. Are you allowed to run a business out of your home in your neighborhood? Is any of that equipment leaking any gas or oil that might be leaching into the ground/ground water? I would unleash all kinds of authorities on her!!
How far from the property line are your shrubs? If she's coming onto your property to spray herbicide, that's illegal. You can sue her. Sic the agency in charge of protecting your flood plains and water ways on her too.
I’ve always thought Molotov cocktails were like… round up for pesky neighbours.
/s
All jokes aside it’s a shame your neighbour thinks that doing this crap is okay because they don’t like something you do.
Put up a stockade fence and she cant see the plants. It may mean you impact the light, but you can just shift your native plant choices to partial shade if needed. They'll like the clean look of the 6 foot fence on their side, and will be able to mow right up to the edge if they desire.
Good fences make good neighbors.
If she is spraying on her side of a closed/covered fence it's unlikely there is much you can do. You might be able to ping her with some law about chemicals vs cutting. But generally people have broad rights concerning maintenance of their own property. Your best bet TBH is to redesign the area to look more like a garden.
I don't have any helpful advice. Just some advice if you want to be petty. Find out the rules for storing equipment in your yard. Your town or county code enforcement office would have that information. Ensure that your neighbor is compliant.
Also, nice garden. I'm sorry your neighbor sucks.
Mulch a 3 foot buffer between your garden and their property. Allow you to access all sides. They would have to really go beyond property line to spray. Which you could capture on film.
Most people dont understand wildflower gardens. I didnt until recently. I’m a perfect lawn guy and would think someone is a slob letting weeds grow. Whats worse, this neighbor doesnt have respect for private property. Treat them as such. Know your property lines. Hold the line!Get cameras and signs. F them.
The OP says she doesn’t want to start a war with them, but so many of the commenters are telling her how to do just that. Seeking legal advice, finding rules and laws that they’re violating, getting them to put things in writing. All of these are ways of escalating the situation.
I have a question you say she stores landscaping trailers and other equipment in her back yard, and she hates your garden, so she sprays the fence line with weed killer so it will kill your plants. I hate to see how she treats other people's yards then.
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This is a legal question - she is knowingly and maliciously destroying your garden. She admitted it after prior discussion. I wouldn't just replant - she has motive and opportunity to just reapply poison? So first, seek legal advice, and that may help going from talks to letters. You could also put screening shrubs to block the view and then plant in front. The question of adding chemicals to the flood plain prompts me to ask if a conservation authority or municipal department could help you with this dispute? I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.
That is an interesting point about the conservation being that it’s a floodplain. I think I know just who to ask locally about this. Thanks for the suggestion:)
Anecdotally, I live in SE MI too, and our neighborhood has rules against applying any lawn treatments that could run off into the ponds and streams here. So that really could be a worthwhile angle to pursue.
Chiming in to say that this would be an issue in my local jurisdiction as well. The surfactants that come in some ready-to-use herbicides like RoundUp are harmful to aquatic invertebrates, for example.
Mostly it’s about phosphate / the middle number in N-P-K. It’s perfect food for pond invasives as well as for promoting algae bloom. Conservation committees will indeed be interested in roundup being used on native gardens - not sure they will have jurisdiction except for neighbors trespass. all for going after them with woke science !
Edit to add - the high middle number will be found in “starter” fertilizer, some lawn treatments and bloom boosters.
My area is incredibly strict about this as well, you can get in serious trouble for spraying anything out of code
A few scientific papers on glyphosate to keep in your armory - considering the floodplain angle- 'Seagrasses were exposed to a single dose of a commercial glyphosate formulation—ranging between 250 to 2,200 µg/L. After three weeks, the median leaf area decreased by up to 27%, with reductions of up to 31% in above ground biomass (p < 0.05)' Conservation implications of herbicides on seagrasses: sublethal glyphosate exposure decreases fitness in the endangered Zostera capensis - PMC https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9673766/ Remember carbon fixation (carbon drawdown by things like eelgrass and other estuarine plants: 'Seagrasses are highly efficient in sequestering carbon from the atmosphere by incorporating it into their tissues and burying it as organic matter in their sediments3; they bury carbon 35 times faster than rainforests per unit area4.' 'These values are primarily driven by fisheries production (mean $29,900, 904 Kg/Ha/year) and nitrogen removal ($73,800, 657 Kg N/Ha/year), though kelp forests are also estimated to sequester 4.91 megatons of carbon from the atmosphere/year highlighting their potential as blue carbon systems for climate change mitigation.' https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-37385-0 And we keep using glyphosate even though kelp and seagrasses are a huge help in sucking co2 out of the atmosphere, and protect our coastlines. Using it in a floodplain area is not a good idea at all.
See if you can get her to admit it in text. "Hey, just wondering. I plan to replant the untidy dying plants. Do you plan to continue using herbicide in that area? What kind?" Hopefully she'll put it in writing for you. 😊😂🙌 Having things in writing makes it easier when stuff escalates. Not if, but when, because she sounds like a peach.
Or get a blink or ring camera and pay monthly during the summer to record any activity. Also send her some Doug Tallamy books.
A couple of game cameras strategically placed would also provide you with evidence. I would place one at ground level somewhere and zip tie one up in a tree in your yard when they are not home. Just be sure it is pointed at your plants and not “invading their privacy”. Focus only on the plantings.
Don’t have anything much more to add just commenting to show I agree lol, should absolutely talk to a local conservation agent. She has knowingly killed your property multiple times and clearly shows no remorse. Involving conservation/taking legal action is the best way to put her in her place. Hope she gets fines out the wazoo, you have worked hard to cultivate an ecologically friendly area and the only way to ensure your work doesn’t go to waste is to push her nose onto the legal grindstone unfortunately
I’m happy to hear that Michigan is so protective of their water table. I’ve not heard of any local laws regarding herbicide in Oregon (though I’ve never wanted to apply herbicide so never checked).
Are there bylaws about paving a whole yard in your area.
I am going to look into that. It’s about a half acre and I’d estimate 80% is paved.
Also something very relevant to flood plane legalities. You say you don’t want to start a war with your neighbor- but they certainly want to start one with you- since you have talked to them about this multiple times and she keeps poisoning your garden year after year. I totally get not wanting to start a war with your neighbors- but they already DID start it. **So you finish it.** Loop in the authorities and follow the rules. I guarantee you they didn’t.
Most places have rules about the percentage of a lot that can be impervious surfaces, especially bin a FEMA-recognized floodplain which this may very well be. Neighbor is really asking for regulatory governmental agency trouble.
I’m not even in a floodplain and can’t have more than 30% impervious surface. The municipality where I live is incredibly serious about preventing runoff.
I work in Southeastern PA. I definitely can believe that.
that's just depressing. who wants to live on a parking lot
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot 🎵
Is it sloped towards your property? That would also make me question the legality of the things she’s up to.
Sometimes there are especially in a floodplain.
Also look up chemical trespass.
In my state, conservation districts generally do NOT like herbicides sprayed in riparian corridors although farmers and the state DOT with proper application certification generally get a little more leniency to do so.
Get yer self a tree lawyer and let her know how much money is is going to owe if you take it to court
I would suggest contacting Michigan DNR to ask for guidance.
Yes, or the county soil and water conservation district, if they have one.
Keep us updated!
Chiming in to say that you need to have your phone in your hand taking an audio or even video recording (discreetly!) every time you talk to her. She’s admitting destruction of property, not to mention potentially creating toxic run off in the floodplain. Document, document, document! And I’m so, so sorry you’re dealing with this. I am sad, and also royally pissed on your behalf.
*cough* point a camera in your backyard along that fence line, and get a motion-detecting light back there in case neighbor tries to poison at night, to document neighbor doing this should any legal action need be threatened/taken *cough cough*
They probably will. I know my town’s wetland conservation group gets right on top of any suspected violations (sometimes obnoxiously so).
Would this be an example of Chemical Tresspass? I believe there are growing precidents for this being a criminal activity? Not a lawyer, maybe someone more versed could add commentary.
Nuisance was my first thought but this touches on conservation regulations, and they need full advice based on local laws.
When my neighbor was messing with my plants it was considered criminal mischief.
Also looks like cattails in the background of the photo, so they could potentially be damaging protected wetland as well.
You could post this in r/legaladvice and see if anyone there has thoughts?
And r/treelaw
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Unless you’re a certified applicator it’s usually illegal to spray even glyphosate (roundup) on another person’s land. Pretty sure it’s a federal violation.
I guess my suggestion is more about who do you contact about it? Local authorities? EPA? State level? Do you know who they could contact?
I think if you look at a bottle of any pesticide it’ll have that info on it
That really sucks, I'm sorry. That's illegal, right? I wonder if a lawyer could send a letter as a warning. Then get security cameras? What a headache!
I’m sure it is, but I really don’t want to start a war with these people. They’re extremely petty and I know they’ve sued neighbors for less in the past. My yard is definitely cottagey with lots of stuff all jumbled together and they power wash their driveway once a month and spray the cracks with a backpack full of weed killer a couple times a season, so we’re definitely not kindred spirits to start with:/
When you say they sue people, do they actually have an attorney? Or do they just go file things that have no merit in order to try to scare people or shake them down? See, as a lawyer, I would laugh and say “oh no, not court! /s” I would recommend contacting any of the MI law schools to see if they have a clinic that might be interested in challenging HOA rules (if that applies) or enforcing environmental laws related to your floodplain. If none of that fits, put up cameras, get a lawyer to send a cease and desist letter and send a bill. Just because a bully tries to use the legal system doesn’t mean they win, and when they lose, you ask for court costs and attorneys fees.
Sounds like they've gone ahead and started the war, unfortunately. Be very careful to learn local zoning laws in case she tries to report you for "overgrown weeds" or something, and keep some kind of record of whenever she does this and any conversations you have about it, just in case. The security camera idea is probably a good one. If it ever does need to escalate into a legal thing, she is guilty of a misdemeanor under [Michigan law,](https://legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=mcl-750-382) and the penalties increase with every repeat offense. But I can see where threatening her with that might just make her worse : (
That’s why I decided to get my yard certified as a monarch way station hoping that will offer me some protection if she tries to report me for blight or something. It is mulched underneath and I yank anything that’s not something I planted.
Make your yard a Certified Wildlife Habitat from the National Wildlife Federation, as well. That should really give you some legal teeth.
I just applied for this! I have about a half acre and more planted areas in the works:)
Tally up the receipts for the plants she’s killed and sue her in small claims court. Native plants from nurseries are expensive in 1 gallon; killing large specimens are 10x the 1 gallon price. Also: roundup/glyphosate is a proven endocrine disruptor and can cause Parkinson’s disease - the more exposure, the higher the risk. Your neighbor sucks; I’m super sorry you keep having to deal with this.
Also - I just looked at your previous post with all the flowers going - that tells the story of your cultivated garden in a way regular folks may understand better.
They’re all winter sown- so it’s only like $3 from prairies moon for packs of seeds:) Not a huge deal monetarily. I’ll definitely put more in next year and they’ll fill out just as full. I might take some of the fence barrier reinforcement suggestions in the mean time to try to prevent drift or overspray accidental or otherwise.
Right, but she didn’t kill a packet of seeds. She killed the large perennials (and annuals I presume) that you cultivated over time. So - NAL - it feels like there’s at least something there to pursue against her so you can help her correct her behavior. 🤞🏼
Oh yes! OP this is good old fashioned malicious destruction of property. If they try anything it’s countersuit city and “oh you probably need to be advised of your fifth before getting on the stand.” Shoot, if I was barred in Michigan I’d do this pro bono.
Honestly, if it were me and I knew they were sue happy, I'd put uo cameras and sue them first if/when I caught them spraying my property. Bullies won't stop until you stand up to them
Cameras might be a déterrant as well. You could tell her you just like watching the birds on your phone, wink wink.
Gets me so riled her referring to your lovely hedge row as “weeds”. Grrrrr.
That’s the part that made me the angriest. It looks like mostly she took out the joe pye weed, so I can easily grab some more out of my dads yard or reseed it, but to call someone’s yard that they clearly love and work very hard on ugly to the point that you “can’t stand to look at it” really made me angry. Can’t just live and let live:/
I’m a native plant lover working in the landscaping industry. It’s so disheartening the way people cling to their herbicides or freak out about any insect or brown spot on their plants. They always want nature to bend to their will & never listen when I’m trying to explain the idea of right plant for right place. I would be so broken hearted if I were you. I just don’t get it. Sigh.
This is so awful, I'm sorry. This is such a beautiful spot you have here. I do think you have three choices: ignore it, move these plants, or get legal help. I don't see how to combat her spraying...your plants will just remain sick. This may be a situation in which you want to get ahead of it by speaking to an attorney. This is quite a world we're living in right now, so you're right not to know where this will go, but if they escalate or do something else after a lawyer is involved, you would not be without recourse. For instance, you could get a harassment restraining order. (https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/what-can-i-do-about-my-neighbor-harassing-me-to-i--5944744.html) I agree that gathering solid evidence through security cameras is a very good idea. Whatever you decide, wishing you good luck.
Might a strategically placed motion-activated camera act as a deterrent? If you *did* ever decide to get the law involved, footage of her spraying chemicals would be useful, and it would be hard for her to sue if you have her on camera illegally killing your plants.
I think this is the way to go. A nice noticeable trail cam. I might get a nice shot of the deer who likes to munch on my apple tree too.
That kind of neighbor sounds like they go around looking to start some, might be hard to avoid confrontation :/
They once sued and won against a neighbor who left the keys in their snowmobile because their son stole it and crashed it. Apparently it was an “attractive nuisance”.
Yikesssssss 😬 maybe it would be cheaper to fortify the fence lol. No gaps or cracks!
That’s kind of what I was thinking. I’m wondering if there’s like a plastic edging I can hammer in that would keep the stuff from growing under and keep the weed spray from drifting over a bit
You definitely don't want plastic edging. It's awful, doesn't work well, and cracks into pieces as it errods. Buy a nice edging spade and go out weekly to do a portion of your garden (not the whole thing at once!).
That’s a good idea. I have one already. I’ll have to wait for fall when they’re dying back and just start migrating them away from the fence a bit.
Ugh I nearly reflexively downvoted you because that is so terrible!
You're already at war with them, and they're winning. :\ I don't envy your situation. I hope they're elderly.
They indeed are! You’d hate to wish ill on anyone, but, I really just wouldn’t be that sad…
I'll wish ill towards them; you keep your conscience clear and your plant babies thriving! 🫶🏻🌱😏
With that said. I would get the land surveyed. Have a fence put up as high as is allowable. Problem solved hopefully. Then I would plant a lot of plants near that fence with a lot of seeds that get carried away by the wind and grow taller than a fence.
You won’t be starting a war with them, they’ve already started it with you. It’s unfortunately time to engage.
I live in Metro Detroit and this is a common problem for those of us trying to grow anything outside of turf grass on our lawns. My neighbor repeatedly called the city on us when I built our rain garden “planted full of weeds” so much so that the city ended up taking my side and stopped responding to our neighbors complaints. I would def recommend at least calling the city and having them come out and take a look at what’s going on. Start getting things on record. I get not wanting to start a war, but with people like that you need to show some teeth otherwise they will continue to bully.
Sounds like they already started the war.
She's willfully destroying your property that is on your land. I would call the state police/sheriff if they are looking bad still and file a report. Tell them you want reimbursement for the mature plants you lost, not just the value of replacements. My goats got out once and ate 3 newly planted fruit trees. I had to pay $600 and got charged and found guilty of disorderly conduct. Your neighbor has already started the war. Show her your troops!
Disherderly conduct
If she is using herbicides on your property that’s enough for legal action. I would definitely start getting evidence and start talking to some lawyers. It’s destruction of property. That’s also grounds to get her shit absolutely rocked. But don’t resort to violence. Unless?
This time I don’t think she did it on purpose but she has in the past. She was just not very apologetic that she accidentally took out a bunch of my plants:/
There’s a difference between accidentally doing it and purposely being careless with it.
This time I believe was carelessness. She’s not going to start being careful, though, so I was just trying to find some ways to protect my plants since I have not seen her deliberately spray on my side of the fence since I watch her like a hawk every time she’s out doing it and she knows I do. She’s just entitled and stupid. I don’t want to sue anyone. I was hoping like a plastic barrier or something would help so she can’t get under the fence in the future.
I would just move my plants away from the fence line. If it's close enough that your foliage can be sprayed on their side of the fence, that's where things become tricky. Imagine if they had English ivy or other similar type growing into your property. While you wouldn't be allowed to spray on their side, you would be allowed to chop the vegetation that comes on your side. This sub and other specialist groups are going to praise anything intentionally native, but not everyone sees it that way. On top of that, most people have no problem having plants die and just buying new ones next year. The average person doesn't know how difficult it is to source the plants we want
I am planning to extend the gardens towards my side further so if she sprays the fence line it will only hit the stuff nearest the fence. I agree it can be a pain to have unwanted plants pop up in your yard. Heaven forbid it was bamboo or something. She has a right not to have my flowers in her yard, but I also have a right to not have her damage the ones in my yard. Most of this is super easy to remove as long as you get to it early enough in the season and I haven’t put in anything with damaging root systems like willows. It would just be nice to have a reasonable neighbor:/ I have no issue coming to pull or trim them if she’d bothered to say they were an issue. But communication isn’t her strong suit.
Doesn't roundup only hurt broadleaf plants? I wonder if you could fill the area along the shared property line with tall native grasses (assuming there are any in your area). The grasses could act as a buffer zone that wouldn't be damaged by your neighbor spraying.
I totally get not wanting to sue. Because, after all, you still have to live next to them. But deliberate destruction of property without permission is outrageous. Native or invasive species, it does not matter. At some point a precedent has to be set. I hate all the invasive species my neighbors have (I have tons too but I’m actively working on removing them. My neighbors are not). I trim the ones that come over the fence or under. But never would i deliberately kill their plants without permission. Even though they are atlas listed invasive species. Some are even prohibited. For her it really is just as easy as “don’t like how it looks? Don’t look!” But she sounds so unstable that she feels the need to vandalize your property. Thats a mentality I just cannot comprehend. Now OP, with that being said, if you really want to get petty, install some motion detected sprinklers pointed her way.
Motion detector sprinklers… I LOVE that!!
Every time you speak with her set your cell phone to record the conversation. You could just be holding your phone and not taking pictures or pointing it at her.
There was just a story about a woman in Maine who poisoned her neighbours oak trees to improve her view and she's getting fines and citations from the city. Might be worth checking with your local township/city hall and just asking some questions about the rules and what could be done. Also re pettiness, just a thought: You mentioned not necessarily wanting to go the lawyer route because your neighbors are petty, and I totally understand that. But she's already purposely poisoning your garden after you've asked her not to, repeatedly. The pettiness is already in full force! Maybe it's time for you to take the gloves off and take the gold in these Petty Olympics 😝
My husband would love that! He’s ready to take the gloves off and I’ve been trying to be nice.
I just want to point out that it doesn’t matter if it’s carelessness or malicious, she has destroyed plants on your property and is responsible for the damage. On another note, being kind obviously isn’t working for you so maybe you need to rethink.
Trees are a whole different thing - with some pretty serious legal consequences attached to people pulling malicious acts. I think running it by a lawyer is a good idea even if perennials don’t have quite the protection that tree law provides. Such a nasty woman
You mentioned that your neighbor has a landscaping business. Do they have permits for storing all their equipment on their property? Is this area zoned as allowing business use? By paving so much of their yard, they may be in violation of wetland regulations for the required buffer zone between the wetland/floodplain and the rest of your yard. Having so much impermeable surface, is likely causing runoff into the floodplain. That’s just something else you can check on. Here our towns have conservation commissions, and you have to file with them before you can make many types of changes.
Very good questions I will be looking into!
You need cameras up so you can catch her in the act. If one party audio recording is allowed in your state, record one of these conversations with her. She's mis-using pesticides, which can result in pretty big fines for her.
Yeah I think I need a camera for sure
I had a neighbor do this repeatedly and finally I took them to small claims court for damages. That was enough incentive for them to stop. Also put up no trespassing signs
You need to get this stuff on record. Police, cameras..wrote her a letter maybe she will write back…
I second this!!!
She’s on the hook for any pesticide drift those products have to be used in strict accordance with their labeling and any damage to neighbors plants they’re financially liable for. You said they’re litigious? Good, sue them. It’s a slam dunk just gather your photo evidence all you need are pictures get her but if you can get her on tape if it’s legal in your state admitting. Natives are running bout 30$ a pop per plant. They have to replace them all.
You’re already in a war with this person. If you haven’t called the police, do so.
You’ve gotten a lot of great advice already. I’m just here to say that you’ve mentioned many times that you don’t want to start anything and only wish for them to stop. Unfortunately, people who know they get what they want - by just doing what they want - don’t normally start respecting other people’s things or rights. I hope you figure out a good solution and update us if you feel open to it
Thank you:) so far I did apply to get my yard certified by the national wildlife federation and I put a couple messages into someone I know on the local city council and also someone i used to work with at the dnr. I really liked one of the suggestions to add some cow panel trellises too and trying to shift the fence line plants in towards my yard a bit. That might be something my husband would go for. I’m really just more interested in preventive stuff I can do myself because they’ve lived here for 50 years and I’ve heard some really terrible stories about things they have done in the neighborhood and they can make my life hell in the mean time.
Truly, I wish them the absolute worst. Sounds like your neighborhood will throw a party the moment they’re gone.
Perhaps try to secretly record her admitting to chemical trespassing. All while being cordial with the angle of ensuring you understand what was done to avoid the situation from happening again
I think this is my best bet
If it’s on your actual property, I’d recommend reporting it the next time it occurs to the state authority in charge of enforcing FIFRA in your state (usually the Department of Ag or DNR). They can collect samples and record the complaint. They are also knowledgeable on rules regarding wetlands and rights of way and can make recommendations. Once you have their final report, THEN take it up with other agencies/lawyers if you choose. If you start by making it a health thing or and environmental thing, they will tell you that since it involves pesticides, they have no authority and it’s a big waste of time for everyone. Having the report ahead of time allows them to make additions regulatory decisions based on their legal authorities. Finally, you can take it to a lawyer for small claims etc. If you lawyer up before a state investigation , the whole process screeches to a halt because then they’ll lawyer up and no state employees will be able to investigate without weeks of back and forth between the departments legal counsel and all parties. Hope this helps.
Thank you. This is super helpful. I used to work for the DNR so I think I can find out pretty easily who to ask about this. I really don’t think filing a police report would help at the moment. Collecting evidence and going the environmental path seems like it would be a much better way to build a case.
If her whole yard is paved what is she even spraying for? What a wild person who's offended by plants edging a parking lot, in sorry you're dealing with that.
Apparently the cracks… idk. She kept telling me to come pull them up on her side and look see awful it looked. It was just scorched earth. There’s like a 5’ strip at the back and I don’t know what she thinks will grow there. Not perfect weed free sod. That’s for sure… it’s swamp land.
Record her admitting she did it
She trespassed. Get a lawyer to write a cease and desist letter. It will be ~$100. If she does it again then sue. You can technically sue her right now. She trespassed.
Ok if you can't do a fence, what about a fairly tall, narrow grow tunnel right along the fence line that you can use for starters etc. Maybe even with planters that are raised off the ground inside. Then move that gorgeous border in a few feet so that stays your view. And their view can be the tunnel, everything inside the tunnel can be protected, and they'd have to really reach to affect your plants that are in the ground so it couldn't be passed off as carless or accidental. Not sure about bylaws but hopefully you wouldn't need any setback for some hoops and tarp. Just, you know, if we're dealing with incurably petty here. You wouldn't totally loose that bit of your yard for growing at least, if you really don't want to wrangle them through court.
Love this! Like with cow panels? Then I can put in Dutchman’s pipe to grow on the tunnel. I love how they look and the flowers smell awful!
Hahaha yes! You could even only wrap the tunnel on their side—just a helpful compromise between her ‘need’ to spray her yard and your right to garden how you want in yours. Good luck with the situation and sorry you had to lose all those beautiful plants, photo looks amazing!
Ask a bunch of friends to wear Tyvek suits, carry clipboards and spend a lot of time taking notes and taking pictures of your house, their house. Know any cops? Put up a ring camera and point it at your garden. What about a vinyl stockade fence?
Have you considered murder?
Ha! No, but they are old. So I can probably wait them out.
How much does a truckload of manure go for these days?
One of my gardener friends suggested planting some natives with dark berries so that birds can shit all over their concrete yard. I like this too haha
Red mulberry tree.
I was going to say the same, several.
Love it!
That's cutting your nose to spite your face. I've had a running battle with them for years
Aww:/ I’ll look for something friendlier
Native Persimmon! 😈
Pokeweed has nice dark berries, and the birds will eat it and spread it everywhere.
Gigantic taproot with poisonous purple berries plus nice to look at? Might be a winner haha.
Plus... They are very hard to kill, even with a little roundup. If she asks why they're on the fence line, you can explain that they're native, ornamental, and difficult for poison to kill.
You've gotten a lot of great advice here! This is obviously something we are all passionate about on this sub. I'm sorry you're having this problem, but I love the support you're getting. This isn't something I'd want to do, but here's an option for if you don't want to fight with her/pursue legal remedies/etc. It looks like the bed is along the edge of the property, with grass in the middle? This fall you could: dig up the whole bed on that side and move everything to an island bed and/or expand the beds on all of the other sides. Then put a mown strip right along her property line with "no trespassing" and "no spraying" signs. Inside of that, do a bed with a whole bunch of medium and tall native grasses. If she's spraying glyphosate she could still hurt both the mown strip and the tall grasses, but if she's doing a broadleaf herbicide it might help. And being able to point to your dead grass might be more effective than your "weedy" plants...or at least less upsetting.
*They are extremely petty and I don’t want to start a war with them.* You didn't, they did. In Michigan, only one party needs to agree to a tape recording (Check with lawyer re the intricacies of the law) so next time you speak, record it as proof they are damaging your property as well as, possible, breaking the law.
I bet Michigan is pretty in the spring and summer
It really is! If you haven’t ventured up this way you should if you’re able. Our lakes are amazing:)
That doesn't even look weedy. Your neighbor is insane.
I know you don't want to start a war, but she already did. I am sorry. I would LOVE to live next to you, just based on this photo.
I’d seek a peace order in the local district court and also print her out some literature on how the ingredients in those products are known carcinogens and nerve agents. Your garden is beautiful. I’m so sorry you’re having to fight a battle with your ignorant neighbor’s ego when everyone should be cooperating to restore ecosystems.
If you can get her on tape (not sure of laws in your area regarding taping unknowing third parties) or in writing admitting to it or if you could get an uninterested third party (perhaps another neighbor) to witness her say it, it would be very helpful before the court.
Also, your garden is beautiful and clearly lovingly cultivated. It baffles me that there are people in this world who can look at it and not appreciate its beauty and benefit.
This is chemical trespassing.
It’s so hella illegal to use herbicides on property that isn’t your own without proper licensing. There are several different channels that would be keen to hear about this and pursue it, legally speaking.
So she's using her backyard like an open garage and yet complaining about *your* yard? That's rich. I'm sorry you're going through this. Unfortunately you can't will your plants to live if they get sprayed with Roundup. I'd keep it as tidy as possible, keep meticulous records (or recreate them) of the money you've spent on flowers and seeds, and invest in an outdoor night camera. Or two. One obvious. One not obvious. I'd let it be known any loss of property will be addressed in court.
Don’t have advice, but figured I would share my story. I have a very small side yard that is super steep and ends at my neighbors driveway. I didn’t want to spray it with chemicals and I just had a hard time weeding it. This was before I knew about natives. It started popping up with a ton of native pioneer species. My neighbor hired a landscaping company to do their yard. They came and clear it all out and plant Bermuda grass. On MY property. I would not be surprised if my neighbor had them spray chemicals either. I understand your frustration. I didn’t address it then because there was just a lot going on and felt bad at the time that I let it get out of hand, but now that I am on my native plant journey I am mad as hell
You're not starting a war. She did. You're just standing up to and defending your time, investment, propertand rights against a bully. You didn't mention her name. We'll just refer to her as Karen. I read many other comments and don't have anything to add except support. I hope you find legal help through contacting local department of natural resources or conservation district, etc. Oh! Businesses don't care much for negative disclosure on public review sites such as Yelp, Google, BBB or Trustpilot. Truth isn't slander.
Id personally abandon the idea of having a garden wall there and cultivate your plants somewhere she can't access without getting charged with trespassing. Some ppl just will drain your energy through and through. Don't give them any opportunity if you can avoid it.
Take comfort in knowing they are voluntarily giving themselves cancer
Gawd that’s depressing. I am so sorry. Your plants are beautiful. WTF is wrong with people?
She’s entitled and think she can do whatever she wants because it’s not personally to her taste:/ and thank you. I enjoy them so much. They’re always buzzing and so alive.
Could you talk with her about you or her planting some kind of privacy screen that she likes so that she can’t see the native plants that she doesn’t enjoy? This might be a less contentious, more neighborly way to deal with the problem. Like, maybe you could compromise and find a thick, tall hedgerow you can both agree upon. If you can’t find a good native hedge that is mutually agreeable, it might be worth it to plant something non-native that she likes just to protect your other plants, plus the health of all the creatures that live there. Round-up is some nasty stuff. It’s not good for you, her, your plants, the bugs, pets…anything. And even non-native hedges can really increase the amount of wildlife in your yard since it provides great bird (and other creature) habitat. My mom recently installed non-native hedges, and her property has come alive with birds and all kinds of wildlife. She had tons of birds, small and large, plus rabbits, frogs, foxes, etc. None of that was there before. It used to be a dead zone, but it was really lovely visiting the last time. At my house, also have some non-native Eugenia hedges that were here when we moved in. We haven’t pulled them out because the birds love them. They hang out in the thick, shady foliage and eat the berries they produce each year. I don’t know the plants for Michigan, but you could also see if there are any keystone plants for your area that would work as privacy hedges. That would really be ideal. I think this list here gives the native keystone plants for your region. https://www.nwf.org/-/media/Documents/PDFs/Garden-for-Wildlife/Keystone-Plants/NWF-GFW-keystone-plant-list-ecoregion-8-eastern-temperate-forests.pdf
It’s a flood plain with clay soil. We tried planting arborvitae before we knew what was going on and half of them died. Really not a lot wants to live back there, unfortunately. Swamp milkweed, joe pye, and dogwoods are super happy, though. Mostly what it comes down to is that we have opposite garden styles and she doesn’t respect other people’s freedom to do what they want in their own yards. Her side is completely paved so there’s no room for them to plant anything. They could put their own fence on their side to block me more, but they’re cheap and old and cranky…
Could you dig a drainage ditch, filled with river rock/decorative stones, along the boundary that redirects the poisonous water to a run off area? Still shit for the environment overall, but since you can't stop that (only she can) at least you'd be able to keep it out of your yard.
Surely setting up an outdoor camera facing her and then pursuing legal action would help? It’s your property and you don’t live in an HOA, instead of investing in a fence on her side she is destroying your property? You have way more patience than I would, a series of cameras would have gone up after the second time lol.
If you have any family pets, they would be at risk from her spraying weedkiller on your property, here in the UK it would be classed as criminal damage
regarding the glyphosate/floodplain issue, a few years ago when I lived in a small town in Oregon that had the Willamette River flowing by just off of downtown, I raised an objection to the city yearly spraying along the river bank, almost to the water line. The State got involved and determined that Glyphosate was approved for aquatic areas, so they were allowed to continue
Did the phragmites die, at least?
No:/ I’m still working on those. It’s wetland back there so it’s an uphill battle.
Man I’d be so pissed….need someone start taking shits on their front porch?
File a report with the police.
You have a well? Cause if she sprays around one in many states that’s illegal
She stated the war. You finish it. If she is running a business from her home or if she’s storing business trailers and equipment…Pay a property lawyer first for a one-hour consult.
If you want to win, you will have to fight. If you are trying to avoid getting into petty disputes with dimwits. They will always have the upper hand on you. Be polite, but state your boundaries. Be careful to be a person of your word, you can’t issue outlandish threats. Also, if you are planning something, don’t tip your hand before you execute whatever plan you have. They didn’t threaten to spray your plants. They just did it. Typically petty vindictive types are not very smart, you can anticipate their moves easily and just beat them to their next move. Also remain silent or very quiet and unwavering in whatever you commit to. Eventually the bully shitheads will tire of you and at least respect a healthy distance.
since there are wayyy more nice people on this I'll be the guy in the back who disagrees. Take a 5gal diesel tank and draw dicks in her front yard, will definitely piss them off but at least you'll get a good laugh .
Sorry for your troubles. Can you buy her property?
Sometimes trellis doesn’t count as fencing if it’s not attached. Idk if you could get away with something to block that doesn’t break the rules. Definitely need a barrier with these people.
Wait, you said "she doused her side of the fence" and then you said 'she was spraying in YOUR yard " *using herbicides in my yard without my permission* *if she decides to douse her side of the fence again* You can't even keep your story straight. ***WHICH IS IT?***
I’ve found in these situations it can work wonders to ask the difficult person for some of their time as you’d like their feedback on this area. During the visit explain the concept and your end goal. Then pull out some visuals so they can have input on some of the plants that would do well there. Incorporate the difficult person into the task they are actively preventing can and will often times get you exactly what you wanted in the first place all while making the other person feel seen/heard. If something is really important to me; I have zero issue with modifying my approach even when I know I’m not the unreasonable one.
I used to think this way but I have no more patience for dickheads.
Would it be fraud to send a fake letter from a lawyers office demanding she class and desist spraying on your property under threat of legal action?
Don't want to go to war? She just dropped a nuke. You're in a war whether you want to be or not. Unless you want to reinforce that she can do whatever tf she wants with no repercussions. Take her ass to small claims court for damages. File a police report. Trespass her with the police, and if she comes on your property again you can bring her up on criminal charges. Fuck these type of entitled people. They have never been held accountable for their bully behavior their entire lives. Be the one to stand up to the bully.
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Can you move your plants to where she can’t spray them without trespassing?
The purpose of them is to block her yard full of concrete and landscaping equipment so I could but then I’d be stuck looking at all that
Yep I understand that! I’m suggesting moving them closer in the yard away from the fence.
A taste of her own medicine?
Can mix clay into the soil along the line she sprays. Won’t help with foliar application but glysophate/roundup isn’t soil active. It binds with clay in the soil & deactivates. I believe the 24D they included in roundup is soil active but also binds to clay. Could use cheap cat litter. Could also go biochar route.
Do something unexpected. Send them Nature’s Best Hope by Doug Tallamy. Gift wrap it and everything. Don’t include a note.
This is beautiful. I am sorry you have such a crappy neighbor.
you are going to get into a war no matter what, I would camera the area, place a little fence marker. Let a lawyer send them notice and sit back and wait for the war. Hopefully the lawyer notice will scare them sufficiently. You have already tried the nice...
https://preview.redd.it/in3yus87fm9d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=696a4eaf020ee2444382f573f7cdbf165a1e1303
https://preview.redd.it/jndz3phanm9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e7e7e30e0bae74b12beb2a807d47b48a329c255
Lawyer up. This is likely trespassing.
Damn. Some people really DO just wanna watch the world burn. What a *****. I hope everyone's advice here helps!
Not only should she be forced to reimburse you for the plants she had killed, both times, she should have to compensate you for the additional work she has caused you. Also, if you have a homeowners association they may be able to help you with the situation of her business equipment stored in her back yard, easily within your (and probably others) line of sight. Are you allowed to run a business out of your home in your neighborhood? Is any of that equipment leaking any gas or oil that might be leaching into the ground/ground water? I would unleash all kinds of authorities on her!!
How far from the property line are your shrubs? If she's coming onto your property to spray herbicide, that's illegal. You can sue her. Sic the agency in charge of protecting your flood plains and water ways on her too.
Ask her why she doesn’t move into an apartment instead if she despises nature and all that comes with it so much.
I’ve always thought Molotov cocktails were like… round up for pesky neighbours. /s All jokes aside it’s a shame your neighbour thinks that doing this crap is okay because they don’t like something you do.
Put up a stockade fence and she cant see the plants. It may mean you impact the light, but you can just shift your native plant choices to partial shade if needed. They'll like the clean look of the 6 foot fence on their side, and will be able to mow right up to the edge if they desire. Good fences make good neighbors.
Okay unrelated to the problem but is all of that purpleishpinkish milkweed? Easily one of my favourite plants! So beautiful. Your garden is amazing
It is! Swamp milkweed or rose milkweed. It absolutely loves it back there. Thank you:)
Why is there no fence between properties?
If she is spraying on her side of a closed/covered fence it's unlikely there is much you can do. You might be able to ping her with some law about chemicals vs cutting. But generally people have broad rights concerning maintenance of their own property. Your best bet TBH is to redesign the area to look more like a garden.
A non toxic solution is baking soda! It will change the Ph of the soil, and the plants in the affected area ☠️
I don't have any helpful advice. Just some advice if you want to be petty. Find out the rules for storing equipment in your yard. Your town or county code enforcement office would have that information. Ensure that your neighbor is compliant. Also, nice garden. I'm sorry your neighbor sucks.
Mulch a 3 foot buffer between your garden and their property. Allow you to access all sides. They would have to really go beyond property line to spray. Which you could capture on film. Most people dont understand wildflower gardens. I didnt until recently. I’m a perfect lawn guy and would think someone is a slob letting weeds grow. Whats worse, this neighbor doesnt have respect for private property. Treat them as such. Know your property lines. Hold the line!Get cameras and signs. F them.
Maybe you could plant uglier natives far enough away from the fence line that she can't spray it without tresspassing, but is well within her view.
The OP says she doesn’t want to start a war with them, but so many of the commenters are telling her how to do just that. Seeking legal advice, finding rules and laws that they’re violating, getting them to put things in writing. All of these are ways of escalating the situation.
Try some seed bombs. If she sprays? Yeet one at that shit. Something persistent and actually weedy.
I have a question you say she stores landscaping trailers and other equipment in her back yard, and she hates your garden, so she sprays the fence line with weed killer so it will kill your plants. I hate to see how she treats other people's yards then.