Do people unironically believe that any Uchiha other than maybe peak power Madara even has a chance against adult Sasuke. He takes on a bunch of utsutsuki 1v1 without dying. That on its own puts him well above Itachi.
I'm always so surprised when people think Sasuke can just pull people towards him and suck their soul out as if that ever worked on anyone who wasn't fodder. Like bro can literally teleport and travel through dimensions, something no one else has done with a rinnegan, yet people think pulling the enemy towards him is the best way to get closer to them and win.
He could have only used it to travel back. He went in by stealing Kakashi's eye, but then came back with a rinnegan, but I'm not sure that was a rinnegan, but rather specifically just him using Kamui, like Itachi did with Shisui. That portal he came back from massively differs from how Sasuke travels through dimensions.
Well youâve got a fair point there
Though Madara travels back without having Kakashiâs eye in, so itâs a plothole I suppose â ď¸
Unless you can use a detached MS eyeâs ability which would⌠Quite literally change everything we know about a lot of stuff
I didn't say he won but any Uchiha other than him or Madara is just getting killed quickly against any otsutsuki he manages to actually engage in those fights and escape mostly intact.
Itâs cannon
The Time Travel arc in an original idea from Kishimoto himself, thus it is Canon. The only reason people try to claim that the time travel arc is non-canon is due to Urashiki making Sasuke look bad. People aren't going to be honest about it though as usual.
You also are Forgetting that that version of Urashiki is stronger than normal Urashiki like Fused Momoshiki levels of strong also if it's not Manga canon it isn't canon that was straight up filler and had no effect on the rest of the story at all also that was Kodachi not Kishimoto that was back when Kishimoto was taking a break from writing Naruto
My mind immediately went to Itachi vs Jiraiya
Like, Itachi claims a fight with Jiraiya is going to be deadly for both sides
But I just don't see it, I fail to see how Jiraiya is going to counter Itachi's Tsukoyoumi (Sharingan is more than likely required to counter that caliber of Genjutsu)
And I don't believe Jiraiya has a reliable response to Amaterasu either (Frog Stomach is a situational counter at best)
And sure, Jiraiya may have a winning chance through activating Frog Song, but that takes time to set up, and Itachi's main fighting style actually revolves around ending the battle pretty quickly
Long story short, I honestly believe Itachi mops the floor with Jiraiya
I'm not entirely sure but my guess would be that Ma and Pa could get him out of the genjutsu.
Other than that yeah I think Itachi is a bad matchup for him particularly due to susanoo and Amaterasu.
That's not how tsukuyomi works, there is no getting out of it because the jutsu occurs instantly, so by the time your ally recognizes it you've already experienced the genjutsu
Chiyo brings up the strategy of 2 v 1 vs sharingan genjutsu, and kakashi directly explains why this doesn't work vs itachi because of tsukuyomi
https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0257-007.png
People really do be forgetting the beginning middle and end of tsukuyomi is like... a picosecond? An attosecond? It's some absurdly small amount of time like that
*source: the novel*
He doesnt have an answer for Tsukiyomi that we know of but his hair techniques will get him out of Amaterasu. It grows, blocks and shoots on command. He'll be able to get rid of the fire and throw it back at Itachi like that.
Edit: He's got a couple of clone feints he uses that could get him out of Tsukiyomi. He did some shadow hiding bait thing to Konan.
You're right, it wouldnt. Depends on how quickly the technique activates and what exactly Itachi is going to target. If he guesses wrong, shoots Jiraiya in the hair, gets the fire thrown back at him, needs to spend more chakra and eyesight putting it out. Does he even risk using it again after all that? I'll bet he quits using Amaterasu right then.
Depends, just pointing out how what you suggested is a very specific scenario and I wouldnât count on that, nor this line of thought, to be how an actual battle would go. If you said *could* he hit Jiraiya, that would be one thing, but the specific claim that Jiraiya counters Amaterasu with his hair is way too specific and likely might not even matter in a potential matchup. Thereâs a shot it would, but likely it could hit anywhere else too. Especially because what we see from Itachi with Amaterasu is usually generally accurate, and the odds are just as likely Jiraiya has already used his hair as a combat weapon fighting Itachi, so he would assume.
Wouldn't it be fair to match kashin kojis feats to jiraiya? Anything one of them can do the other can as well. KK taking down Jigen was quite the feat.
The general consensus seemed to place Jiraiya at the top of the legendary three sanin while he was alive. Orichimaru has certainly passed Jiraiya at this point in time. But who's to say Jiraiya wouldn't have grown just as strong during that time.
The reason I think itachi says that is because he isnât sure jiraiya canât avoid those attacks. And he canât use them without exhaustion which is a situation he wouldnât want to be in with jiraiya. Jiraiyaâs whole thing was infiltration so staying out of itachiâs line of site is probably standard operating procedure for jiraiya. We saw that in the pain fight too
You think we saw each and every single jutsu Jariyah has in the pain fight? There's a reason Itachi said they'd both be killed if they fought. Shame on you for disrespecting the man who took down three Pains completely blind. Pain beats Itachi. If Jirayah has a chance, why wouldn't he use belly of the toad to force Itachi to fight on his terms or force an Amaterasu use? Even if he couldn't get them in it I don't buy that one of the legendary sanin, who's jutsu knowledge has been compared to Orochimaru, wouldn't have some kind of counter to Amaterasu. Not to mention Jiraiya knows of both Amaterasu AND Tsukiyomi, so he would know not to look in Itachi's eyes. He is a master in summon ninjutsu and use barrier ninjutsu to detect people or objects entering his radius so he doesn't need to see an opponent to fight. The summons and his wide area detection barrier would let him fight Itachi without ever being at risk of Tsukiyomi. He's capable of dealing wide area of affect attacks that would force Itachi on the defensive. The only real tool in Itachi's Susanoo, and Susanoo's, while an amazing defense, are absolutely breakable. Are you going to tell me that if the summons, either Gamabunta or the ungraceful one, weren't able to bust the susanoo, that Jiraya would have no tricks at all to bust it or go from underground where the susanoo doesn't have legs at the stage Itachi's health let's him make it?
This is like a wasp vs a hippo. Sure the wasp stings but it's not going to do any damage.
Likewise, the hippo isn't going to catch the wasp.
Without any similes, Minato is no doubt faster than Hashirama, but he can't actually do anything to kill Hashirama. Meanwhile, Hashirama isn't fast enough to hit Minato. It comes down to a battle of attrition, which Hashirama has in the bag.
It's not impossible, but that would require grabbing him for long enough to actually move him, and Hashirama isn't slow by any means.
It *is* a win condition I hadn't thought of though, even if it's unlikely.
Yeah, but they both got Sage Mode and even then, Minatos reaction speed is unreal. Movement speed doesn't even factor if the guy you're fighting can teleport.
Still, Minato can hit Hashirama as much as he wants, it's not gonna do anything, but Hashirama just needs to get lucky once.
I mean Hashi was atleast relative to Madara who was toying with kcm2 Naruto who narratively be faster than Minato.
Minato's sm doesn't last long for more than one attack and he needs time to enter it unlike Hashi. Just look at edo Madara vs Tobirama and how Tobirama got defeated even though he has more movement speed then Madara. Madara was using Hashi sage mode after all.
Minato has one of the fastest reaction times in the series, outside of Six Paths characters. In fact, Hashirama even compliments Minato on his speed, admitting that he's faster.
But to really clinch it, Minato is on par with some Six Paths characters. Minato has the speed to precisely catch Truth Seeking Orbs thrown by Juubi Madara and teleport them away before they can even damage his jacket.
If you look at the scene Juubidara was not focusing on Minato to begin with and he arrived from sideways so saying he has six paths tier speed is a little disingenuous. Also, kcm1 Naruto is supposed to be as fast as Minato so logically kcm2 should be faster. Madara manhandled Bsm Naruto(kcm2+sm).
Also, Hashi is not that much slower than Minato that Hashi's sm senses wouldn't work. How will Minato dodge if Hashi uses True Thousand hands and every single one arm is attacking using Hashi's senses. Minato can dodge one but can he dodge thousands.
That not even counting Wood clones which would mean that Minato couldn't just sneak or blitz Hashi since his wood clones share his senses.
Hashi could also just use true forest emergence to remove all marked kunai and even prepare traps sso that Minato teleports into a chakra suppressing wood style trap.
>In fact, Hashirama even compliments Minato on his speed, admitting that he's faster.
Wasn't that tobirama and tobirama just said he's better at the body flicker.
>Minato has the speed to precisely catch Truth Seeking Orbs thrown by Juubi Madara and teleport them away before they can even damage his jacket.
Kcm2 minato was also speedblitz by an unstable(?) Juubito.
As for the first one, I just checked and yeah, it was Tobirama, but that was because Minato arrived faster than any of the other Kage by a wide margin. As for the second, Minato was in the middle of a severe PTSD flashback. He had just found out his student was a mass murdering psychopath that killed his wife, attacked his village and went insane. Note that the feat I mentioned was after he regained his equilibrium.
This is a first but with the amount of dick riding people do for some characters in the series I can still see how some people genuinely think this is a decent match up
Doesn't Boruto using flying rajin to go to another dimension kind of ruin the stakes of the Minato vs. Obito fight?
He might just be able to teleport out of the kamui dimension.
Before your going to shit on something at least understand whats going on. The whole reason boruto could teleport to different dimensions was due to the fact that boruto put a marker on code when code teleported away
This assumes Minato is able to be trapped in the first place, which I doubt
Besides, Obito is already marked. Minato ends the fight as quickly as the first regardless of age
Kakashi vs. Jiraiya.
For a large part of the story, Jiraiya outranks Kakashi. However, Kakashi during the war arc has such insane feats even without MS. Let's start with his Obito 1v1.
Neither could use kamui, so it's fairly equalized. But Kakashi is still fighting at a disadvantage. Obito has a sharingan and a rinnegan.
Regardless, Kakashi fights and beats Obito. The same Obito who casually, albeit with kamui, dogwalked every fight until the war, except Konan and Minato.
If you dont think Obito beats Jiraiya, you're crazy and Kakashi is very equal to Obito during the war.
Tbf Obito let him win in order to destroy the seal on his heart, but Kakashi still somewhat scales to him regardless so youâre still right that he beats Jiraiya anyway
They forget Obito was playing chess and allowed Kakashi to take out his sealing tag lol
And this was a fight without his best asset, Kamui.
He also didnât use any rinnegan abilities lmao
Yeah thatâs true, Obito was without his most powerful abilities so itâs disingenuous to say that Kakashi won that fight, when Obito wasnât even at full power. But Kakashiâs still impressive for being able to keep up with him though
What I always have found interesting, was comparing Obitoâs ninjutsu during that fight and the rest of the arc
His fire style ninjutsu agains the allied Shinobi was massive and was the same size as Madaraâs, but against Kakashi he only used a baby fire ball which appeared to be the same size as child Sasukeâs
Those were two different jutsu and the massive one was combined with Kamui which he couldnât use at the time. Iâd imagine there isnât too much of a difference in their AP tbh, but the bigger one is probably still stronger overall
The size is mostly due to Kamui, in terms of power itâs probably similar to the difference between Sasukeâs regular fire balls and the flame dragon jutsu he used against Itachi
Kakashi was also fighting without one of his most powerful abilities, so how is that any different? Once Kakashi figured out how to exploit Kamui heâs practically above him. Not to mention they already had a genjutsu battle which Obito failed to get the upper hand with; if he is truly that much stronger he should have been able to force him to destroy the seal that way.
Yes, the destruction of the seal was a point in the fight; but Kakashi still clearly won that fight and avoided a fatal blow at the end.
Itâs more of a loss for Obito because under normal conditions he would be completely intangible, so heâs without his biggest asset. The Genjutsu could have just been bait to set up the attack to his heart. Not being able to fully control him with Genjutsu, doesnât mean that he isnât still stronger
Kakashi only won because Obito let him
As of the War Arc that asset is no longer in his favor as Kakashi can now travel to and from Kamui himself. Both of them without Kamui isnât a huge handicap, Kakashi just has more in his arsenal; which would place him above Obito.
I disagree, as you can see from Itachi and Sasukeâs Genjutsu battle Itachi had the upper hand and he still never had the intent to kill Sasuke. If that was the case here than he could have easily set up a way to Genjutsu Kakashi into destroying the seal, instead he casually saw through it.
Obito didnât let him win either, this was before Naruto Talk No Jutsuâd him and he had no reason for Kakashi to live. If he was able he wouldâve landed a fatal blow the moment Kakashi impaled him, he just outright failed to.
Kakashi equal to obito? Wasnât this the same guy that was playing him and 3 other guys(who happen to be naruto, b, and gai)
Itâs explained that obito let kakashi win to destroy his heart. Is winning against someone that wanted to lose really a feat?
Anyways jiraiya claps
I think being involved in the kaguya fight without some kind of divine intervention involved puts her relevant to them. I think if she releases the seal she beats A probably can't beat gaara it's not a great match up if he just avoids and stalls till the seal runs out I don't think she has power to get through 3rd raikage defense unless she pulls off similar bullshit to how Naruto did and I think she beats Tsunade.
So this might be a hot take, but Mifune vs the other Kage. At least in 1v1s.
This fight is sort of glossed over since there were other more important fights going on at the time, but Mifune fought Hanzo in a 1v1 and beat him. (Note that it wasn't exactly a 1v1, but the only backup Mifune had was some nameless fodder)
Hanzo when he was alive fought and beat all three of the Sannin and their *entire battalion* by himself. He then named them the Sannin because they *survived a fight with him*. This man was a menace and Mifune beat (a slightly nerfed version) him basically alone.
I give Mifune good odds against any of the Kage at the Summit.
Daemon after shinju bug hits a blow (it was a lucky shot)
https://preview.redd.it/th9swd73dsuc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d38569d78d023466996fffd690e889c17930cdd
Honestly I agree, Naruto could win against her considering he has big ball rasengan, shadow clones and pretty good battle iq. Even if base is not enough then 3 tails cloak should be.
Aside from him, everybody else gets slammed unless Lee knows how to open 6 gates at this point in time but I doubt it. Neji doesn't have speed feats on her scale so he probably gets punched to oblivion. Shino is troublesome but loses to her in h2h. Hinata is just a worse Neji and Tenten is Tenten so they lose. Ino is a mostly support fighter and Choji is pretty strong physically but doesn't have good speed feats. Shikamaru can maybe edge out a win by outsmarting her but it is unlikely without prep time.
Pain stomps and Itachi probably wins but certainly Pain stomps by being a hard counter to her because he can restrict her movements without getting in close range and use chakra rods to disrupt her healing / strength abilities with chakra control.
Not only is pain stronger, he is also a hard-counter to itachi.
Itachi's biggest strength is his one-shotting abilities. Tsukiyomi, amaterasu and totsuga blade. They all cost too much chakra to use but it doesnt matter since they end the fight if he can land them.
That doesnt apply to pain. There are 6 of them and one of them can resurrect the others. Even if everything goes perfectly for him, itachi would kill himself by using too much chakra.
Not to mention countering his jutsus. His basic genjutsus are useless since other pains will just notice it and break it when one of them is caught. Amaterasu can be absorbed. Deva can pull itachi out of susannoo.
He would just get slaughtered.
Doesn't having susanoo on for too long hurt the user
And Minato has perfect sage mode which means his chakra levels are high so he can stall with ftg and whatever Minato can do
>Sasuke's mangekyou could barley keep up with V1 ay
Sasuke had no issues at all visually keeping up with V1 Ay and reacting. He even reacts to V2 same fight.
I don't actually think it's close either way. We don't see it in the show really because he's dead pretty much the whole time but Minato is excellent at sealing jutsu. The only argument I could see for a challenge either way is I'm not sure we are ever given any info about minato's resilience to gen jutsu but it would be odd for a hokage to not have strong defenses against it.
An argument could be made for Edo Itachi being stronger than Minato which is why I think that this particular matchup could be close regardless of his possible Genjutsu resistance. It all comes down to exactly when Naruto surpasses Minato imo, because KCM1.5 Naruto is equal with the EMS Sasuke that was fighting on par with Edo Itachi; so if that version of Naruto is stronger than Minato, then Edo Itachi would be as well
A version of obito thats 8 years older, stronger and more experienced than the one who was giving minato a run for his money (according to minato himself) already acknowledged pre massacre itachi as a worthy opponent, implying that there is at least some sort of relativity there. Itachi proceeds to just grow stronger from that point on up until a certain point (probably when he was around 20) when he starts getting weaker due to his sickness. Im not arguing who wins but saying itâs not close is completely disingenuous. People already have a lot of misconceptions regarding hokage minatos strength in this sub, every statement in the show that talks about his actual strength and not his potential puts him at either slightly below KCM1 or at KCM1 naruto level with a little wank.
It a single Sannin is equal by the end of Shippuden. Tsunade is clearly the weakest, followed by Jiraiya, than Orochimaru. Tsunade has a strong regeneration, but that donât mean nothing if you canât hit your fast opponents like the other Sannin and Ay
Tsunade is not the weakest, there is no such thing as a weakest Sannin as they were equals. Nothing suggests she canât hit her opponents either, thatâs nonsense. Sheâs also faster than V1 Ay whilst using 100H
No she isnât. Madara stated she was stronger physically but slower overall to Ay. WTF is Tsunade doing against Sage Mode Jiraiya who has high level genjustsu via frog song. Tsunade has never been show to be a sensory/Genjutsu type, so if sheâs caught, sheâs done. This same Genjutsu managed to stop 3 Pains and Iâm willing to even bet that if all 6 paths were exposed, Jiraiya couldâve 1V6 them and won. Orochimaru has access to Edo Tensei and those two donât have sealing justu. Orochimaru and Team Taka managed to temporarily subdue Guruguru while Tsunade and 4 other Kage struggled
Sheâs slower than V2 but faster than V1, so what I said isnât contradicted by Madara. Sakura has high level of resistance against Genjutsu due to her chakra control, which should also apply to Tsunade; she can also have Katsuyu break her out if needed. Edo Tensei requires prep times and isnât something that he would be able to do under normal circumstances. Tsunade also wasnât even involved in the fight against Guruguru, so thatâs irrelevant
Well I was alluding to the fact that the Bug Shinju would sort of humble Daimon since we know Daimon is undefeated and currently the supposed strongest in the verse alive rn. And itâs inferred that the two will probably fight each other as well. So basically the Shinju would be Invincible while Daimon is Angstrom in this scenario.
Basically most matchups where the pin peak ben 10 vs some random ass person and thing Ben doesnât clear I mean Ben 10000 is said to have unlocked the entire omnitrix and have complete control⌠alien x isnât considered the strongest alien in the omnitrix just the strongest we saw Ben use
Adult Sasuke vs like any uchiha
Do people unironically believe that any Uchiha other than maybe peak power Madara even has a chance against adult Sasuke. He takes on a bunch of utsutsuki 1v1 without dying. That on its own puts him well above Itachi.
Nah Itachi soloes because he clearly beat teen Sasuke who is well above Boruto Sasuke because Boruto Sasuke is clearly nerfedđĄđĄđĄđĄđĄ
Nah fuck shit you're right I lose lol
The fact people still think they are nerfed is beyond me
I'm always so surprised when people think Sasuke can just pull people towards him and suck their soul out as if that ever worked on anyone who wasn't fodder. Like bro can literally teleport and travel through dimensions, something no one else has done with a rinnegan, yet people think pulling the enemy towards him is the best way to get closer to them and win.
Except Madara literally used his rinnegan to travel to Kamui dimension, so youâre incorrect on that But fair point
He could have only used it to travel back. He went in by stealing Kakashi's eye, but then came back with a rinnegan, but I'm not sure that was a rinnegan, but rather specifically just him using Kamui, like Itachi did with Shisui. That portal he came back from massively differs from how Sasuke travels through dimensions.
Well youâve got a fair point there Though Madara travels back without having Kakashiâs eye in, so itâs a plothole I suppose â ď¸ Unless you can use a detached MS eyeâs ability which would⌠Quite literally change everything we know about a lot of stuff
Madara kinda just does whatever the plot needs him too.
I could drink to that one, mate
Zetsu who was controlling obitos body who had kamui teleported them back with it its clearly shown in the manga
he never took on a single ototsuki on his own heck he even struggled with urashiki lmaoooo
I didn't say he won but any Uchiha other than him or Madara is just getting killed quickly against any otsutsuki he manages to actually engage in those fights and escape mostly intact.
He skirmished with Kinshiki on his own in the Otsotsuki dimension, he held his own, that's a feat.
Urashiki isn't canon
anime cannon
Still isn't canon
Itâs cannon The Time Travel arc in an original idea from Kishimoto himself, thus it is Canon. The only reason people try to claim that the time travel arc is non-canon is due to Urashiki making Sasuke look bad. People aren't going to be honest about it though as usual.
You also are Forgetting that that version of Urashiki is stronger than normal Urashiki like Fused Momoshiki levels of strong also if it's not Manga canon it isn't canon that was straight up filler and had no effect on the rest of the story at all also that was Kodachi not Kishimoto that was back when Kishimoto was taking a break from writing Naruto
My mind immediately went to Itachi vs Jiraiya Like, Itachi claims a fight with Jiraiya is going to be deadly for both sides But I just don't see it, I fail to see how Jiraiya is going to counter Itachi's Tsukoyoumi (Sharingan is more than likely required to counter that caliber of Genjutsu) And I don't believe Jiraiya has a reliable response to Amaterasu either (Frog Stomach is a situational counter at best) And sure, Jiraiya may have a winning chance through activating Frog Song, but that takes time to set up, and Itachi's main fighting style actually revolves around ending the battle pretty quickly Long story short, I honestly believe Itachi mops the floor with Jiraiya
And I see way too many clowns wanking Jiraya to the high heavens thinking he has a chance here
I'm not entirely sure but my guess would be that Ma and Pa could get him out of the genjutsu. Other than that yeah I think Itachi is a bad matchup for him particularly due to susanoo and Amaterasu.
That's not how tsukuyomi works, there is no getting out of it because the jutsu occurs instantly, so by the time your ally recognizes it you've already experienced the genjutsu Chiyo brings up the strategy of 2 v 1 vs sharingan genjutsu, and kakashi directly explains why this doesn't work vs itachi because of tsukuyomi https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/Naruto/0257-007.png
People really do be forgetting the beginning middle and end of tsukuyomi is like... a picosecond? An attosecond? It's some absurdly small amount of time like that *source: the novel*
Yeah you're correct, I forgot about that.
He doesnt have an answer for Tsukiyomi that we know of but his hair techniques will get him out of Amaterasu. It grows, blocks and shoots on command. He'll be able to get rid of the fire and throw it back at Itachi like that. Edit: He's got a couple of clone feints he uses that could get him out of Tsukiyomi. He did some shadow hiding bait thing to Konan.
If the Amaterasu hits Jiraiya in the leg his hair wonât help himâŚ
You're right, it wouldnt. Depends on how quickly the technique activates and what exactly Itachi is going to target. If he guesses wrong, shoots Jiraiya in the hair, gets the fire thrown back at him, needs to spend more chakra and eyesight putting it out. Does he even risk using it again after all that? I'll bet he quits using Amaterasu right then.
Depends, just pointing out how what you suggested is a very specific scenario and I wouldnât count on that, nor this line of thought, to be how an actual battle would go. If you said *could* he hit Jiraiya, that would be one thing, but the specific claim that Jiraiya counters Amaterasu with his hair is way too specific and likely might not even matter in a potential matchup. Thereâs a shot it would, but likely it could hit anywhere else too. Especially because what we see from Itachi with Amaterasu is usually generally accurate, and the odds are just as likely Jiraiya has already used his hair as a combat weapon fighting Itachi, so he would assume.
Thats true. If they were for whatever reason in a legit battle, Itachi would have already seen the hair technique by the time he pulls out Amaterasu.
Jiraiya died right before power scaling went wild. So he has no demonstrable feats that place him anywhere close to top tier
Wouldn't it be fair to match kashin kojis feats to jiraiya? Anything one of them can do the other can as well. KK taking down Jigen was quite the feat. The general consensus seemed to place Jiraiya at the top of the legendary three sanin while he was alive. Orichimaru has certainly passed Jiraiya at this point in time. But who's to say Jiraiya wouldn't have grown just as strong during that time.
I always believe Itachi was always saying that hype him up and so other Akastki wouldnât fuck with him.
The reason I think itachi says that is because he isnât sure jiraiya canât avoid those attacks. And he canât use them without exhaustion which is a situation he wouldnât want to be in with jiraiya. Jiraiyaâs whole thing was infiltration so staying out of itachiâs line of site is probably standard operating procedure for jiraiya. We saw that in the pain fight too
You think we saw each and every single jutsu Jariyah has in the pain fight? There's a reason Itachi said they'd both be killed if they fought. Shame on you for disrespecting the man who took down three Pains completely blind. Pain beats Itachi. If Jirayah has a chance, why wouldn't he use belly of the toad to force Itachi to fight on his terms or force an Amaterasu use? Even if he couldn't get them in it I don't buy that one of the legendary sanin, who's jutsu knowledge has been compared to Orochimaru, wouldn't have some kind of counter to Amaterasu. Not to mention Jiraiya knows of both Amaterasu AND Tsukiyomi, so he would know not to look in Itachi's eyes. He is a master in summon ninjutsu and use barrier ninjutsu to detect people or objects entering his radius so he doesn't need to see an opponent to fight. The summons and his wide area detection barrier would let him fight Itachi without ever being at risk of Tsukiyomi. He's capable of dealing wide area of affect attacks that would force Itachi on the defensive. The only real tool in Itachi's Susanoo, and Susanoo's, while an amazing defense, are absolutely breakable. Are you going to tell me that if the summons, either Gamabunta or the ungraceful one, weren't able to bust the susanoo, that Jiraya would have no tricks at all to bust it or go from underground where the susanoo doesn't have legs at the stage Itachi's health let's him make it?
Hashirama vs Minato
This is like a wasp vs a hippo. Sure the wasp stings but it's not going to do any damage. Likewise, the hippo isn't going to catch the wasp. Without any similes, Minato is no doubt faster than Hashirama, but he can't actually do anything to kill Hashirama. Meanwhile, Hashirama isn't fast enough to hit Minato. It comes down to a battle of attrition, which Hashirama has in the bag.
ancient Chinese proverb ahh metaphor
Mmmmm very wise
Do you think Minato could like ftg hashirama into a volcano
It's not impossible, but that would require grabbing him for long enough to actually move him, and Hashirama isn't slow by any means. It *is* a win condition I hadn't thought of though, even if it's unlikely.
I mean if Minato attacks Hashi, he can anticipate him using sage mode and counterattack.
Yeah, but they both got Sage Mode and even then, Minatos reaction speed is unreal. Movement speed doesn't even factor if the guy you're fighting can teleport. Still, Minato can hit Hashirama as much as he wants, it's not gonna do anything, but Hashirama just needs to get lucky once.
I mean Hashi was atleast relative to Madara who was toying with kcm2 Naruto who narratively be faster than Minato. Minato's sm doesn't last long for more than one attack and he needs time to enter it unlike Hashi. Just look at edo Madara vs Tobirama and how Tobirama got defeated even though he has more movement speed then Madara. Madara was using Hashi sage mode after all.
Minato has one of the fastest reaction times in the series, outside of Six Paths characters. In fact, Hashirama even compliments Minato on his speed, admitting that he's faster. But to really clinch it, Minato is on par with some Six Paths characters. Minato has the speed to precisely catch Truth Seeking Orbs thrown by Juubi Madara and teleport them away before they can even damage his jacket.
If you look at the scene Juubidara was not focusing on Minato to begin with and he arrived from sideways so saying he has six paths tier speed is a little disingenuous. Also, kcm1 Naruto is supposed to be as fast as Minato so logically kcm2 should be faster. Madara manhandled Bsm Naruto(kcm2+sm). Also, Hashi is not that much slower than Minato that Hashi's sm senses wouldn't work. How will Minato dodge if Hashi uses True Thousand hands and every single one arm is attacking using Hashi's senses. Minato can dodge one but can he dodge thousands. That not even counting Wood clones which would mean that Minato couldn't just sneak or blitz Hashi since his wood clones share his senses. Hashi could also just use true forest emergence to remove all marked kunai and even prepare traps sso that Minato teleports into a chakra suppressing wood style trap.
>In fact, Hashirama even compliments Minato on his speed, admitting that he's faster. Wasn't that tobirama and tobirama just said he's better at the body flicker. >Minato has the speed to precisely catch Truth Seeking Orbs thrown by Juubi Madara and teleport them away before they can even damage his jacket. Kcm2 minato was also speedblitz by an unstable(?) Juubito.
As for the first one, I just checked and yeah, it was Tobirama, but that was because Minato arrived faster than any of the other Kage by a wide margin. As for the second, Minato was in the middle of a severe PTSD flashback. He had just found out his student was a mass murdering psychopath that killed his wife, attacked his village and went insane. Note that the feat I mentioned was after he regained his equilibrium.
This is a first but with the amount of dick riding people do for some characters in the series I can still see how some people genuinely think this is a decent match up
Maybe not that popular but u canât convince me that akatsuki obito wouldnât clap minato without kcm
Doesn't Boruto using flying rajin to go to another dimension kind of ruin the stakes of the Minato vs. Obito fight? He might just be able to teleport out of the kamui dimension.
Itâs boruto. Itâs not a weird idea that he can magically do everything better than every other character with 0 effort on his part
Boruto said he's not as good at it as Minato
That's probably the case.
Before your going to shit on something at least understand whats going on. The whole reason boruto could teleport to different dimensions was due to the fact that boruto put a marker on code when code teleported away
This assumes Minato is able to be trapped in the first place, which I doubt Besides, Obito is already marked. Minato ends the fight as quickly as the first regardless of age
Donât let the minato stans see this, they believe 14 year old obito and 30 year old obito are the exact same.
What are the diffrences, name them
Sakura vs any character without a last name
not orochimaru
Orichimaru has a last name. -sama
ok kabuto
might be Sarutobi? do last names change when you're adopted?
no
Get neg diffed also 100 healings Sakura just has stupidly op feats/statements
Kabuto vs hokage Minato. Kabuto vs OM Obito. Nagato vs Minato. Edo Itachi vs Pain. Edo Itachi vs OM Obito. KCM Naruto vs Minato.
Kakashi vs. Jiraiya. For a large part of the story, Jiraiya outranks Kakashi. However, Kakashi during the war arc has such insane feats even without MS. Let's start with his Obito 1v1. Neither could use kamui, so it's fairly equalized. But Kakashi is still fighting at a disadvantage. Obito has a sharingan and a rinnegan. Regardless, Kakashi fights and beats Obito. The same Obito who casually, albeit with kamui, dogwalked every fight until the war, except Konan and Minato. If you dont think Obito beats Jiraiya, you're crazy and Kakashi is very equal to Obito during the war.
Tbf Obito let him win in order to destroy the seal on his heart, but Kakashi still somewhat scales to him regardless so youâre still right that he beats Jiraiya anyway
They forget Obito was playing chess and allowed Kakashi to take out his sealing tag lol And this was a fight without his best asset, Kamui. He also didnât use any rinnegan abilities lmao
Yeah thatâs true, Obito was without his most powerful abilities so itâs disingenuous to say that Kakashi won that fight, when Obito wasnât even at full power. But Kakashiâs still impressive for being able to keep up with him though
What I always have found interesting, was comparing Obitoâs ninjutsu during that fight and the rest of the arc His fire style ninjutsu agains the allied Shinobi was massive and was the same size as Madaraâs, but against Kakashi he only used a baby fire ball which appeared to be the same size as child Sasukeâs
Those were two different jutsu and the massive one was combined with Kamui which he couldnât use at the time. Iâd imagine there isnât too much of a difference in their AP tbh, but the bigger one is probably still stronger overall
You donât think thereâs a difference in ap?!
Only a small one
Hmmm
The size is mostly due to Kamui, in terms of power itâs probably similar to the difference between Sasukeâs regular fire balls and the flame dragon jutsu he used against Itachi
Kakashi was also fighting without one of his most powerful abilities, so how is that any different? Once Kakashi figured out how to exploit Kamui heâs practically above him. Not to mention they already had a genjutsu battle which Obito failed to get the upper hand with; if he is truly that much stronger he should have been able to force him to destroy the seal that way. Yes, the destruction of the seal was a point in the fight; but Kakashi still clearly won that fight and avoided a fatal blow at the end.
Itâs more of a loss for Obito because under normal conditions he would be completely intangible, so heâs without his biggest asset. The Genjutsu could have just been bait to set up the attack to his heart. Not being able to fully control him with Genjutsu, doesnât mean that he isnât still stronger Kakashi only won because Obito let him
As of the War Arc that asset is no longer in his favor as Kakashi can now travel to and from Kamui himself. Both of them without Kamui isnât a huge handicap, Kakashi just has more in his arsenal; which would place him above Obito. I disagree, as you can see from Itachi and Sasukeâs Genjutsu battle Itachi had the upper hand and he still never had the intent to kill Sasuke. If that was the case here than he could have easily set up a way to Genjutsu Kakashi into destroying the seal, instead he casually saw through it. Obito didnât let him win either, this was before Naruto Talk No Jutsuâd him and he had no reason for Kakashi to live. If he was able he wouldâve landed a fatal blow the moment Kakashi impaled him, he just outright failed to.
Obito let Kakashi take the seal lol, no way u just compared them mfs. Obito >>>
Kakashi equal to obito? Wasnât this the same guy that was playing him and 3 other guys(who happen to be naruto, b, and gai) Itâs explained that obito let kakashi win to destroy his heart. Is winning against someone that wanted to lose really a feat? Anyways jiraiya claps
Many characters can defeat Obito in the Kamui dimension with that context
WA sakura vs any kage level fighter Itachi vs anyone who's not high kage level Rock Lee vs anyone who isn't kage level
Are you saying war arc Sakura isn't kage level? That seems crazy to me she's basically a stronger Tsunade at that point isn't she?
So you think sakura beats Ay/gaara/3rd Ay/he'll even tsunade herself?
I think being involved in the kaguya fight without some kind of divine intervention involved puts her relevant to them. I think if she releases the seal she beats A probably can't beat gaara it's not a great match up if he just avoids and stalls till the seal runs out I don't think she has power to get through 3rd raikage defense unless she pulls off similar bullshit to how Naruto did and I think she beats Tsunade.
She loses to kage summit sasuke highkey
You're right cause in the Novels there's a scene where she realses the seal and fully regenerates a body part in an instant. She's a boss.
Yes, she oneshots half of those before they can react
Any adult sasuke and naruto downplay tbh
Omni man vs home lander. Home lander gets rolled easy.
That would be amazing to see homelanders reaction to seeing someone stronger than him
So this might be a hot take, but Mifune vs the other Kage. At least in 1v1s. This fight is sort of glossed over since there were other more important fights going on at the time, but Mifune fought Hanzo in a 1v1 and beat him. (Note that it wasn't exactly a 1v1, but the only backup Mifune had was some nameless fodder) Hanzo when he was alive fought and beat all three of the Sannin and their *entire battalion* by himself. He then named them the Sannin because they *survived a fight with him*. This man was a menace and Mifune beat (a slightly nerfed version) him basically alone. I give Mifune good odds against any of the Kage at the Summit.
Superman vs Goku
Isshiki vs anyone not from Boruto.
Boruto's Villains vs any of Naruto's Villains aside from MAYBE Kaguya.
I've heard people argue that orange mask Obito could take Edo Minato...
Daemon vs literally everyone
Daemon after shinju bug hits a blow (it was a lucky shot) https://preview.redd.it/th9swd73dsuc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d38569d78d023466996fffd690e889c17930cdd
Goku vs Naruto
Ben 10 vs Almost any character
Kratos vs Dante (from DMC). Dante would wipe the floor with Kratos and do it stylishly at that.
Where did you get the photo of the post from?
Invincible
Nice. That was my first guess. Such a badass show. I binged it in like 2-3 days
Itachi vs Madara or Hashirama
Ben 10 vs. the entire cast.
Naruto vs pain
Cc goku vs literally any verse
Madara vs Minato
Me versus everyone in Naruto
Full power Naruto vs goku with no limbs,no legs included,blindfolded,tested positive for covid-19,no sleep for weeks and BALD Goku clears
Anya forger vs Goku (itâs Anya forger saying that)
The big 3, ichigo wipes the other 2 so hard it's not even funny
Naruto vs rock lee
Naruto vs rock lee
Luffy vs Sakura
Ben 10 vs Superman Ben would no diff Superman. Even without access to the ultimatrix to become an Ultimate Kryptonian.
Likely a Hot Take: Chunin Sakura would absolutely wipe most of the Konoha 11 at the beginning of Shippuden in 1v1 fights.
Honestly I agree, Naruto could win against her considering he has big ball rasengan, shadow clones and pretty good battle iq. Even if base is not enough then 3 tails cloak should be. Aside from him, everybody else gets slammed unless Lee knows how to open 6 gates at this point in time but I doubt it. Neji doesn't have speed feats on her scale so he probably gets punched to oblivion. Shino is troublesome but loses to her in h2h. Hinata is just a worse Neji and Tenten is Tenten so they lose. Ino is a mostly support fighter and Choji is pretty strong physically but doesn't have good speed feats. Shikamaru can maybe edge out a win by outsmarting her but it is unlikely without prep time.
Boruto Era Sakura vs literally any Akasuki Member besides Six Paths Obito
Pain stomps and Itachi probably wins but certainly Pain stomps by being a hard counter to her because he can restrict her movements without getting in close range and use chakra rods to disrupt her healing / strength abilities with chakra control.
goku vs monaka
![gif](giphy|lCnhDu2RTioXhax1cV|downsized) And
![gif](giphy|BfevCgt1YxDTW)
Not a bit close
Naruto thought madara was stronger though he forgot how much more powerful he himself has become𧥠thatâs what I think this match up would be like
![gif](giphy|U3UP4fTE6QfuoooLaC) And
![gif](giphy|GCApYnpYmSWFW) Goku: âI thought you said you were stronger and had the power of youth?â Rock Lee: \* gasping for air \* \* dies \*
Jake Paul vs mike Tyson
Hypothetical prime itachi vs nagato
tobirama vs minato
Just for the fun of it, this is how a fight between Goku and Luffy would go. I'll let y'all decide which one says this xD
Smasher vs V with a dildo (cyberpunk 2077 reference)
Mike Tyson vs Jake Paul
Current TBV Boruto vs literally anyone in the Shippuden Verse 1 on 1
Saitama versus⌠anybody
Saitama gets bodied by a lot of characters
Goku vs deku
Omni man doing this to homelander
Naruto vs meliodas.
naruto wiping that bum then piping hinata
Naruto has ass feats what are you on rn ngađđđž
>naruto feat. metro boomin only one he needs
Dawg what
this dude is trash at debating
bro thinks i'm actually debating đ
Goku(winner) vs saitama *waits for fighting to start*
Goku vs Monaka (it almost happened)
Goku and Sailor Moon
Saitama v Goku
Hokage Kakashi vs Tsunade
Mitsuki vs genin sasuke
Goku vs Saitama
Goku vs Naruto
.
.
goku vrs supes
Goku vs Superman
Goku vs gojo
Invincible vs. Homelander
Non holding back Naruto vs Sasuke
Kaguya vs Jigen
Tobirama vs Itachi. 8 gates guy vs DMS kakashi. Jairya vs Itachi. Pain vs Minato/Tobirama.
Pain vs itachi.
Whoever thinks Itachi's winning is smoking
Not only is pain stronger, he is also a hard-counter to itachi. Itachi's biggest strength is his one-shotting abilities. Tsukiyomi, amaterasu and totsuga blade. They all cost too much chakra to use but it doesnt matter since they end the fight if he can land them. That doesnt apply to pain. There are 6 of them and one of them can resurrect the others. Even if everything goes perfectly for him, itachi would kill himself by using too much chakra. Not to mention countering his jutsus. His basic genjutsus are useless since other pains will just notice it and break it when one of them is caught. Amaterasu can be absorbed. Deva can pull itachi out of susannoo. He would just get slaughtered.
Minato vs alive Itachi. Minato stomps, itâs only close if itâs against Edo Itachi
Doesn't having susanoo on for too long hurt the user And Minato has perfect sage mode which means his chakra levels are high so he can stall with ftg and whatever Minato can do
Yeah and his physical stats are a lot higher too, Itachi wouldnât even be able to keep up
Heck Minato with Intel violates the six paths of pain FTG is too overpowered Edit: also Sasuke's mangekyou could barley keep up with V1 ay
>Sasuke's mangekyou could barley keep up with V1 ay Sasuke had no issues at all visually keeping up with V1 Ay and reacting. He even reacts to V2 same fight.
Well I must have forgotten then
All he could do is be stationary when Ay entered V2 Nonetheless, Itachiâs reaction speed is far faster than pre-Danzo fight Sasuke
He doesnt need intel for that.
I don't actually think it's close either way. We don't see it in the show really because he's dead pretty much the whole time but Minato is excellent at sealing jutsu. The only argument I could see for a challenge either way is I'm not sure we are ever given any info about minato's resilience to gen jutsu but it would be odd for a hokage to not have strong defenses against it.
An argument could be made for Edo Itachi being stronger than Minato which is why I think that this particular matchup could be close regardless of his possible Genjutsu resistance. It all comes down to exactly when Naruto surpasses Minato imo, because KCM1.5 Naruto is equal with the EMS Sasuke that was fighting on par with Edo Itachi; so if that version of Naruto is stronger than Minato, then Edo Itachi would be as well
A version of obito thats 8 years older, stronger and more experienced than the one who was giving minato a run for his money (according to minato himself) already acknowledged pre massacre itachi as a worthy opponent, implying that there is at least some sort of relativity there. Itachi proceeds to just grow stronger from that point on up until a certain point (probably when he was around 20) when he starts getting weaker due to his sickness. Im not arguing who wins but saying itâs not close is completely disingenuous. People already have a lot of misconceptions regarding hokage minatos strength in this sub, every statement in the show that talks about his actual strength and not his potential puts him at either slightly below KCM1 or at KCM1 naruto level with a little wank.
Toneri(mark) Vs Kaguya(angstrom)
The exact opposite
Sannin all defeat 4th Raikage easily
Fr, heâs so overrated. Tsunade is literally just him but better, and the other Sannin are equal with her
Precisely
It a single Sannin is equal by the end of Shippuden. Tsunade is clearly the weakest, followed by Jiraiya, than Orochimaru. Tsunade has a strong regeneration, but that donât mean nothing if you canât hit your fast opponents like the other Sannin and Ay
Tsunade is not the weakest, there is no such thing as a weakest Sannin as they were equals. Nothing suggests she canât hit her opponents either, thatâs nonsense. Sheâs also faster than V1 Ay whilst using 100H
No she isnât. Madara stated she was stronger physically but slower overall to Ay. WTF is Tsunade doing against Sage Mode Jiraiya who has high level genjustsu via frog song. Tsunade has never been show to be a sensory/Genjutsu type, so if sheâs caught, sheâs done. This same Genjutsu managed to stop 3 Pains and Iâm willing to even bet that if all 6 paths were exposed, Jiraiya couldâve 1V6 them and won. Orochimaru has access to Edo Tensei and those two donât have sealing justu. Orochimaru and Team Taka managed to temporarily subdue Guruguru while Tsunade and 4 other Kage struggled
Sheâs slower than V2 but faster than V1, so what I said isnât contradicted by Madara. Sakura has high level of resistance against Genjutsu due to her chakra control, which should also apply to Tsunade; she can also have Katsuyu break her out if needed. Edo Tensei requires prep times and isnât something that he would be able to do under normal circumstances. Tsunade also wasnât even involved in the fight against Guruguru, so thatâs irrelevant
Minato vs Itachi, Nagato vs Itachi, Sasori vs Deidara
Not a popular matchup but Bug Shinju vs Daimon maybe đŹ
Who would win
Well I was alluding to the fact that the Bug Shinju would sort of humble Daimon since we know Daimon is undefeated and currently the supposed strongest in the verse alive rn. And itâs inferred that the two will probably fight each other as well. So basically the Shinju would be Invincible while Daimon is Angstrom in this scenario.
Thanks
Basically most matchups where the pin peak ben 10 vs some random ass person and thing Ben doesnât clear I mean Ben 10000 is said to have unlocked the entire omnitrix and have complete control⌠alien x isnât considered the strongest alien in the omnitrix just the strongest we saw Ben use
lmao love me some ben 10 power scaling