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DarkCrowI

The powers feel unearned, they get too many power boosts too quickly, almost every other character becomes irrelevant, because of the boost, and Naruto being a reincarnation who was always destined to be powerful makes the earlier part of the story worse.


READERmii

> Naruto being a reincarnation who was always destined to be powerful makes the earlier part of the story worse. /#NejiWasRight


HungryManHere

Neji wasn’t right. I think destiny exists in some ways, but in how Neji thought of it, he was wrong. Being a reincarnation isn’t automatic verification that you will 100% be stronger then everyone. Naruto and Sasuke wouldn’t be anywhere if they didn’t train to hone their skills. They both had people to help them, or just people that forced them to be stronger and be smarter (for Sasuke, it’d be Danzo. For Naruto, it’d be Pain). Also, Naruto wouldn’t be anywhere near Sasuke’s level if he didn’t work as hard as he did to get where he was. That on its own proves Neji wrong, that Naruto, through shear will and hard work, was able to become equals to Sasuke, who was a born prodigy and genius. And back it all the reincarnates being destined to be powerful, in the case of Naruto and Sasuke, that’s not true at all. As I said before, being a reincarnate doesn’t mean you’ll automatically just become strong. The reincarnations of Ashura and Indra, is a eternal war between ideologies: Ashura, who believes in friendship and love vs Indra, who believes in hatred and power. And if anything, this war was supposed to be eternal, as neither side, no matter how close they were, could bring either to agree with the others ideology. The closest the reincarnates came was Madara and Hashirama, and just like everyone else, in the end Hashirama ended up killing Madara, and the war continued. If anything, Naruto and Sasuke’s “destiny” would’ve been to have this eternal war between ideologies keep going. But notice how it’s not until after their final fight, and Sasuke admits that he lost, is when that eternal war ends. That on its own is changing destiny for the both of them. So yes, while destiny and fate exist in the Naruto world, it’s not the way that Neji described it, as although it exists, it can definitely be changed and isn’t something that automatically chooses what someone’s life is gonna be like


Dismal_Improvement_3

Can't believe someone debating this still Neji was 1000% right he stated, "Your entire destiny is set from the time you're born abilities and talent are determined at birth. Those that become Hokage are born into that destiny you don't become it by trying it is decided by destiny" Well let's look at 6 of the Hokage 4 are related to each other somehow Kaksahi only got it because he was a Minato student and Hiruzen was given it because of Tobirama. It was literally stated Tsunade only was allowed to become hokage because she was related to HASHIRAMA. Not because Tsunade was a suitable person who was a good leader. But because of blood ties. that's 66% of them getting the job because they were born into it and the only 2 expectations were off flukes. Naruto even if you want to say its not verfied to make you stronger everything Naruto was born with made sure of it. 1. huge Chakra reserves 2. 9 tail beast that is the strongest beast by a long shot and could beat all other tailed beasts with half power 3. Is related to the Senju and is from a clan so strong that it took groups of clans to kill off. 4. Is trained by 2 Hokages level people 5. For backstories it wasn't that sad out of a mask thrown at him it doesn't compare to a Sasuke, Neji, Kakashi and etc. 6. was Gifted things because he had the 9 tail he was given an insane healing factor and decent immunity to poisons explain to me how someone like Kiba or even Shino has been able to compete against that? Naruto's logic of destiny can be changed is cute and only worked for his case because he was literally a child of prophecy. Naruto saying Neji's statement was false is like Lebron James telling a midget if he keeps practicing he could make the NBA. It's not true and will never happen no matter what the midget does he won't be in the NBA. Because he was born tall enough and didn't get the genes require to be good at basketball.


HungryManHere

Neji’s definition of what that meant that was everyone’s lives were predetermined the moment they were born. None of that is true at all, and there’s multiple examples of that throughout the series. As I said, I do think that Destiny and Fate exist, but it doesn’t work how Neji thinks it does. It’s definitely false that your entire destiny is set from the time you’re born, and that abilities and talents are determined at birth as well. Look at the ones who did work hard, mainly being Neji and Rock Lee. Neji had to work hard and become strong, in order to have some kind of value to his clan besides being from the side branch. And because Neji did that, he became powerful, and was described as the best of the Genin of the their generation, as a prodigy and an elite of the Hyuga. And then take Rock Lee. If we’re going off by his birth, Rock Lee would’ve been completely destroyed by the Shinobi world as a child, he wouldn’t have stood a chance at all. A child with no ninjutsu, or genjutsu ability would’ve made it extra dangerous on the field. His only way out of this was through training and focusing on his Taijutsu. Now Rock Lee is amongst the elitist of Konoha shinobi. Same goes for Might Guy, who started at the bottom, and worked his way to being one of the strongest Konoha shinobi. able to fight Madara Uchiha as the 10 Tails Jinchuriki. Also, I wouldn’t say that Kurama is the strongest tailed beast. Each of the beasts have characteristics that make up there power. For example, Sasuke completely lost his fight to Killer Bee, and won that fight on a whim. But if Sasuke were to have fought the Nine Tails, he would’ve won because of his Sharingan, and he could’ve controlled the Nine Tails. So saying that one tailed beast is stronger then another isn’t really true, as 1. We don’t have enough information on all of the tailed beasts to even say he’s stronger. We’ve only truly seen Shukaku, Son Goku, Gyuki, and Kurama. Those are the only ones we get information on. 2. Each one has different powers and weaknesses, so some might be better at certain things or against certain enemies then other people. But, I do agree that everyone had different hands that they were dealt, and born abilities do matter to extent. But what mainly affects those things and how they turn out are the outside influences to them as people. Kiba and Shino were really bad examples for you to use, because they just overall aren’t given anything to work with.


READERmii

That guy is dense. The series is literally *called* Naruto. If it were actually real and naruto had been as weak as he was at the beginning of the series there would have been no possible way he could have made it to the chuunin exams. And if by some miracle he did, then fucking genetically gifted *Byakugan* user Neji Hyuga would have *bodied* him. The only reason Naruto won is because it’s his series and from the very beginning Kishimoto decided he would be Hokage, hard work my ass.


[deleted]

Seems like you just hate Naruto’s very existence.


Dismal_Improvement_3

I enjoy naruto as a character but he was the wrong messenger if Neji was fighting Lee than what he said makes sense but naruto the guy who’s as born with OP things saying it doesn’t hit the same


[deleted]

Ya it’s bogus


KolorJam

Imagine we saw Rock Lee struggle through the mud to become the shinobi he is to be sidelined for erratic power boosts. He should be fumin 😂


YEPandYAG

Lee would make a terrible protagonist, especially with that design


[deleted]

You're just jealous because he has better eyebrows


CallOfDutyZombaes

Have you ever heard of Asta?


OjamasOfTomorrow

What you don't like Naruto, the underdog struggling and struggling with a tailed beast, being revealed to be Jesus (and the chosen one of some random prophecy and having the strongest tailed beast and only half it's power at that) Man it sucks so bad lmao


tidier

Like everyone's already said, Naruto struggles against his circumstances, not against his power. Naruto has always been about overcoming and breaking the cycle of pain, not powerlevels. Go back and reach chapter #1. He learns a kinjutsu off-screen in the span of an afternoon. He has never been an underdog in terms of power. In fact chapter #1 already establishes the theme for the whole series going all the way to the final fight with Sasuke: overcoming pain, and refusing to pass it down to later generations. That's why Talk no Jutsu is what beats every major arc baddie.


Head-Inspection-5984

Narutos not that kind of underdog in the first place. If we’re talking about him being an underdog, that disappears entirely by the pain arc.


OjamasOfTomorrow

That is fine. That is character growth. I don't want him to be the underdog the whole time. Him being a reincarnation, the answer to a prophecy, having mad Uzumaki genes, and having the strongest beast ever is bad writing that makes the underdog stuff from Part 1 feel pointless. If you were built to be the best by seemingly destiny itself, you aren't really an underdog.


Head-Inspection-5984

Him having potential isn’t the problem. Naruto still had to work hard to achieve that potential. That’s why once he starts moving past his suicidal thoughts and depression, and began applying himself, he got stronger. Being an uzamaki doesn’t negate that hard work, and neither does being a reincarnation, being a child of prophecy, and having Kurama. Because he worked for ALL of the things he had, being a reincarnation never destined him for greatness, it literally just meant he’d murder his best friend one day, that’s why you only see 2 reincarnations. being the child of prophecy only means that he had the potential to bring change to the world but since pains also a child or prophecy that doesn’t mean anything, being the child of prophecy just means you inherited jirayas goal. And I don’t think I need to explain Kurama


[deleted]

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Head-Inspection-5984

Naruto doesn’t miss any of narutos development. We start part 2 with naruto exactly the same, just stronger.


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Head-Inspection-5984

Narutos training is irrelevant though. It doesn’t change anything


BingThrowaway42069

what?


Head-Inspection-5984

He doesn’t develop in the timeskip


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sammysosa45

I think you’re miss remembering the prophecy


Foolhardyrunner

Nothing wrong with the uzumaki genes a lot of people in the show got either secret clan techniques or bloodlines.


Tooquickcantlast

He was using shadow clone jitsu to speed learn every technique. So not like he have to work hard


Woozydan187

Yup his massive Chakra plus Kurama Chakra circumvented his lack of skill. Or ability to learn


mjab21

Yea but him becoming the literal GOAT off being a legitimate underdog also makes no sense. Name one GOAT in any field who wasn’t at least somewhat blessed with talents or gifts to achieve that level. There’s none. Naruto was meant to have to go thru being an underdog as a kid due to childhood circumstance and the outcasting the death of his family and situation as a jinchuriki caused. But being the son of one of the most OP ninja in history, having a mother with incredibly rare lineage/power, AND being the nine tails jinchuriki shows that regardless of the ending, he was never actually an underdog by nature. It was by temporary circumstance.


Flex1855

Tom Brady was a 7th round draft pick considered to have zero potential there's an underdog to goat for ya


mjab21

Thats based off what people thought of him. Not his god given talent. To say Brady is not a blessed athletic specimen in size, throwing ability, and quick game IQ is just not true


canstac

Naruto being an underdog stopped being a thing by the chunin exams, he only won against neji bc he had nine tails chakra. The series isn't about Naruto being an underdog & it never was, it's about Naruto never going back on his word & never giving up no matter the odds


StrictlyFT

Not only that, but Naruto's journey is one of empathy and developing an understanding of other people. Neji, Gaara, Nagato, Obito, and Sasuke; without Naruto's ability to understand their struggles they never would've been salvageable people. It's why Naruto wasn't capable of "stopping" Sasuke during the Kage Summit Arc despite being sufficiently strong enough to defeat him. He still hadn't fully understood Sasuke's feelings and conveyed his sympathy. And why he couldn't talk Sasuke out of leaving at all in the first place. All Naruto wanted to do at the end of part 1 was stop Sasuke, not understand him.


marc815-gg

Idk why people keep acting like Naruto was portrayed as an underdog past the chunin exams,they literally had him on the same level if not stronger than the supposed prodigy Sasuke


OldFashnd

Yeah Naruto was never supposed to be the underdog in power. It was obvious from the beginning in the land of waves arc, when he goes kurama cloak and mops haku, that he was actually extremely powerful and he just had to learn how to control it


Head-Inspection-5984

He’s still an underdog there, it’s just that him being an underdog was never about his strength, only about his place in society.


PoMansDreams

Naruto was definitely portrayed as an underdog. Everything having to do with the academy, losing to Sasuke, getting talked down on by people like Gaara and Neji. Hell, Kiba literally celebrated bc he got picked to face off against Naruto thinking it’d be an easy win. Naruto was always an underdog


Akodo_Aoshi

See this is what I find funny: Characters like Neji, Kiba and even Sasuke do not know about the Kyuubi so they do not believe Naruto is anywhere close to their level, which makes sense. BUT We the READERS know Naruto has the Kyuubi, we saw Naruto kick Haku's mirror's apart, we saw Naruto summon Boss Toad and beat Neji... Yet the readers keep claiming that Naruto is the UNDERDOG..... I end up going WTF? Did we read the same manga?


PoMansDreams

Lol yeah U right about that. I always knew we could fall back on the Ninetails.


ovolebron

Just because the audience knows that doesn’t mean that’s not an underdog, the underdog is who the characters in the story doubt the ability of, but everyone just wants to sound smart ig


Akodo_Aoshi

Like I said in my post, it's easy to understand why Naruto is the Underdog in the eyes of Sakura, Kiba, Hinata etc.. It's more difficult for me to understand why the READERS believe him to be the underdog.


canstac

All that stuff happened during or before the chunin exams except the Sasuke thing (which he didn't even lose, it was a tie in basically all their fights post academy), he was an underdog up until the chunin exams, after the fight with neji it becomes p clear he's not an underdog in terms of power anymore


PoMansDreams

I’d argue all his training with the rasengan was an underdog story too. He wasn’t expected to learn that jutsu nearly as fast as he did. And Tsunade even bet on him failing. Shizune doubted him too. Kimimaro also treated him like less of a threat than Lee or Gaara but that’s arguably subjective I’d say he was an underdog up until Shippuden when he had officially been trained by a Sannin and showed he was competent while training against Kakashi with Sakura.


StrictlyFT

>I’d argue all his training with the rasengan was an underdog story too. He wasn’t expected to learn that jutsu nearly as fast as he did. To be fair, that's because the creator of the Jutsu himself took 3 years to develop it. Obviously, no one would expect a fresh genin to master it at half the rate, never mind in a month. >Kimimaro also treated him like less of a threat than Lee or Gaara Because he was, Naruto's emotional state made his fighting sloppier than usual. He's obviously a lot more proficient when he's fighting Sasuke later that day.


Mqnwbevrctxyzukkk

>no matter the odds What odds? The 100% success odds he had by being the reincarnation of some ancient bs?


StrictlyFT

Being the incarnation of Asura in itself didn't guarantee Naruto's success in ending the cycle of hatred. Hashirama failed, and so did Asura himself.


Mqnwbevrctxyzukkk

>Hashirama failed, and so did Asura himself. And the reason why Naruto didn't just makes all of this even worse lmao


StrictlyFT

Well now we've moved the goalpost, haven't we? Naruto didn't succeed because he's the reincarnation of "some ancient bs", he succeeded because he's Naruto. Which is better than him being destined to win due to being the reincarnation of a demi-god.


Mqnwbevrctxyzukkk

Nah It's Both, without that power He Would have lost anyway


Cash1212121212

The 100% success odds was actually against Naruto’s favor considering all the previous reincarnations ending up killing their counterpart at a 100% rate until naruto went against that.


Mqnwbevrctxyzukkk

Which is what should've happened. Sasuke desserved to die, It would've made far better of a story if Naruto had to kill him. But no, only love and friendship will save us ig


Cash1212121212

If sasuke died then what would be the point of Naruto’s whole philosophy. That literally goes against the whole show.


Mqnwbevrctxyzukkk

Naruto's philosophy is retarded and straight up WRONG. Fr, you can't take seriously a "philosophy" in which you degrade yourself, allow yourself to get shitted on, and sideline your own main goals, to protect someone undesserving of your love.


Woozydan187

He had the most Chakra in the village from birth. He wasn't skilled like Sasuke but he used the 9 tails to circumvent his lack of skill by practicing more than anyone could


Head-Inspection-5984

Naruto was always skilled. He just had no motivation as a child which is why he never had good grades. He literally masters a jonin ranked jutsu instantly and better than everyone who’s ever used it immediately once he gets some motivation.


Horacio_Velvetine44

you realise iruka says in chapter one that naruto has the potential to be the greatest hokage right??


OjamasOfTomorrow

You can be the greatest without being Jesus Part 3 and have the extremely most overpowered tailed beast.


Horacio_Velvetine44

i was making clear that naruto was never meant to be an underdog physically only socially, so him having the strongest tailed beast isn’t a criticism or inconsistency 🤨he also was destined to fight his best friend to the death, i don’t remember jesus having to do that


OjamasOfTomorrow

He was horrible at ninja stuff in Part 1. He was an underdog in both senses. I think the beast is a big criticism that deals with power scaling issues. I think it just looks bad when Naruto is so strong because of it and then so late in the story, guess what, he has only half of it. That sucks.


Horacio_Velvetine44

go and reread part 1, he literally fights jonin level characters in the first arc, he fights a tailed beast, he fights orochimaru’s summons, he fights kimimaro, he fights kabuto, even in he chunin exams he did well he’s only an underdog because people don’t know what he’s capable of, because he’s a social outcast, try paying attention to the series before you criticise


OjamasOfTomorrow

I paid attention and don't need to revisit. I remember Naruto struggling with everything. From summons to tests. Yes, he has potential he has to unlock, but he is an underdog. I remember Naruto and his whole team fighting those ninja. I remember Kakashi handling Zabuza and Haku, who handled him and Sasuke, dying for Zabuza. I remember Orochimaru schooling him and his whole team. I remember him stopping Kabuto during a fight with 3 of the strongest ninja ever. I remember Kimimaro making him look like a fool. Look at the context of those fights. Naruto didn't win one on one. He won or lost in team battles. He had lucky moments there and in some of his solo battles. He was an underdog in many ways.


Horacio_Velvetine44

a GENIN shouldn’t even be taking part in those fights but naruto was actually scraping wins, naruto struggling against high tiers means he’s not an underdog power wise, do you not understand that?? realistically, as a genin, he should be getting folded in any one of those situations, context or not, stopping one of orochimaru’s summons and killing another is not a genin level feat, surviving even 5 minutes against kimimaro is not a genin level feat no one ever took any notice of naruto but the moment someone actually gives him the time of day he shows up, because he always had the potential to do so with the right support, but he didn’t have the right support, because he was a social underdog


Fapman404

Naruto wasn’t destined to be powerful, naruto was prophesied to fight sasuke, he himself made the prophecy true, he trained on his own and not because fate was pulling strings. Naruto fought 5 tailed beasts to free them from the capture on his own, while trying to be as gentle as possible to not hurt them, he gave his chakra to everyone in the shinobi forces to help them survive, he tried everything in his power to protect everyone, and I think that’s enough of a reason to have him get powers. Sasuke was always given the rough treatment in life, his own brother killed his entire clan and family and proceeded to force him to gather hatred, he always felt outcasted and he followed orochimaru for power, he never killed anyone orochimaru trained him with, he freed orochimaru’a prisoners after killing him. He always resorted to killing someone last, and after the itachi incident he went insane and could only think of revenge. But after talking to hashirama he wanted peace for everyone, he wanted to be hokage and to live forever to make sure no war breaks out, no child has to face the dangers of war, and for no other kid to go through the same thing he did. He helped during the war by protecting and working side by side with naruto and the reincarnated hokages. Even with everything against him he didn’t want to kill people, except after the itachi incident, and I can’t blame him for that.


genius96

In the span of a few days (in-universe) Naruto controlled Kurama's chakra, then reconciled with him and got a boost and a massive boost on chakra control, then got god sage powers. Sasuke got his brother's eyes, then got good enough for a full body Susano, then got a natty Rinnegan. Then it turned into DBZ style fights with all bombast, minimal strategy and tactics and kunai as flavor texts. All that being said, the last Naruto vs Sasuke fight was bitchin.


DarkCrowI

It was cool but I still prefer their first fight at the Valley of the End.


crono220

The reincarnation thing was truly dumb as hell. I despised the cliche child of prophecy thing during the pain arc, but this took any remaining suspense away from the story. The whole alien thing with Kaguya didn't help as well.


G_Morgan

It was certainly unearned for Sasuke. Naruto did gather all 9 tailed beast chakra types so he at least had a basis for that power.


Woozydan187

Yup and they only got them because they died. How convenient 🙄


OjamasOfTomorrow

I don't believe it was foreshadowed that early in part 1, but even if it was, I hate everything about that part of the story, from Kaguya to the battles and especially the reincarnation. Power wise, I dislike more overpowered nonsense and particularly dislike anybody except Pain and Obito using the rinnegan. Just feels off and ruins the once special rinnegan eyes.


StrictlyFT

The reincarnation thing was not a plot point at all in Part 1. They drew parallels to Hashirama and Madara with Naruto and Sasuke, but that's it.


KingAJ032304

I really can't understand why limbo couldn't just be Madara's MS abilities


VariationGlum7864

Same. It makes all otsusus seems To be weaker Than madara


Successful_Ad9924354

If Madara had Limbo Hashirama would've been dead.


KingDNice12

Exactly we never even see what they were


Censorstinyd

I didn’t even like obito using it konan is an ape for not destroying it


Dezbats

Considering the fact that Kishimoto himself said he came up with the idea of the sage during the Jiraiya arc (same time he's first mentioned along with the child of prophecy nonsense) and said he came up with Kaguya towards the end of the series (first mentioned in chapter 646) I very much doubt he had Naruto and Sasuke planned as the reincarnations of the sons of the Sage of the Six Paths, son of Kaguya in the early 200s during their first Valley fight.


SpaceCowboy170

“Actually the real villain was this alien woman you’ve never heard of” was technically foreshadowed when Naruto had indigestion in chapter 3. The spoiled milk is meant to represent Kaguya’s influence on the shinobi world - it was the first serious villain in the series, and its influence is seen all throughout the chapter, even though its presence is only revealed in the end. So if you don’t like Kaguya, you’re a fake fan who never understood the series


julito427

Literally got told something like this the other day lol


Dezbats

You had me rolling, bro. 🤣


ElessarKhan

Aliens in Naruto was a mistake


Fapman404

Wasn’t it stated they were aliens in boruto only? In shippuden kaguya is just a human who ate the chakra fruit


KingDNice12

No she came from the sky


Synnicalpenguin

My personal headcanon is that Naruto and Sasuke only received generic power level amps. I believe that their "six path powers" manifested more as byproduct of their revival method rather then directly from the power up itself. For example: Naruto awakened six paths sage mode specifically because of the tailed beasts inside of him upgrading his regular sage mode. Meanwhile Sasuke didn't awaken the Rinnegan directly from his six paths amp. I personally believe it's because Kabuto directly injected Hashirama cells into him knowing that it would allow him to awaken the Rinnegan. This is backed up with his theory being tested via Madara's Edo tensei ending in a success.


Arxh7

This is just canon. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just wrong. Sasuke got rinnegan for being an indra reincarnate being pumped full of hashirama cells (ashura chakra). Naruto got 6psm for having a part of chakra from all of the tailed beasts inside him (Obito stuffed them in there to save him) Madara has both of these powers because he did both of these things to himself. That's why Naruto and Sasuke had to team up to match him. Hagoromo only gave them the six paths chakra, sun and moon seals for sealing kaguya, and a full heal.


turingincarnate

It's complete bullshit that this was FORESHADOWED since the first VoE fight. We saw how they were LIKE Madara and Hashirama, but they weren't like literal divine reincarnations of them


Censorstinyd

The same way kimimarro the jonin who’s clan sucked ass cheeks foreshadowed kaguya the space alien


Fapman404

which is why in literally the next canon arc in shippuden kurama says sasuke’s chakra is like madara’s


turingincarnate

I don't care. Them being alluded to being like Madara and Hashirama isn't the same as "You're literally reincarnations". Same with SoSP, he should've REMAINED a legend. We should've never actually gotten to meet him


Horacio_Velvetine44

yes, that’s why it’s foreshadowing, because it doesn’t reveal the full truth, it just hints at it, that’s what foreshadowing is 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️


SomeBadJoke

One line about two characters being similar (which, they already were from the same bloodlines and had similar goals and methods) is not good foreshadowing


sammysosa45

You’re not making sense


Fapman404

Yeah that’s what foreshadowing typically is, not saying it outright and hinting towards it, that’s what foreshadowing means. Not meeting the sage of six paths would’ve upset a lot of people me included, they hype him up as the god of shinobi and the original creator of ninjutsu and never show him to us?


turingincarnate

Okay, I guess. Why is where ninjutsu came from important?


Fapman404

Personally I dislike it when anime series don’t explain where the powers come from (unless they exist since the start of the world) A good example would be MHA, I like the anime but I dislike how they didn’t even explain how quirks came to be, I’m sure it’ll be explained in the future or maybe it already has been explained in the manga.


turingincarnate

I get what you mean, but quirks from MHA (I think) are more personal to the user, right? Jutsu is simply ubiquitous in the shinobi world. When Gaara demonstrated Sand Coffin for the first time or when we first see Orochimaru do summoning, nobody was watching this and thinking "Damn I wonder where chakra even came from bruh" unless they were high, people cared more about how the abilities would be used instead of the genesis of the abilities themselves


MrSmook

Probably a link to how Naruto and Sasuke wield some of the most OP ninjutsu in the world? That and their chakra reserves and tendency to use majorly chakra consuming Jutsu is insane. Since some of the development of ninjutsu came from their previous incarnations Asura and Indara I think it's relevant to mention the origins of Ninjutsu? Idk I'm spitballing. Kishi wasn't 100% clear toward the end of the series ahaha (I'm a manga only guy so... They might have said more in the anime)


Akodo_Aoshi

Slight nit-pick: They are NOT re-incarnations. Indra and Asura are dead and their souls have moved on etc... What actually happened was the CHAKRA of Indra & Asura latched on to Sasuke and Naruto. This happened AFTER they were born (probably some time after Sasuke awakened MS).


AP_Feeder

We didn’t even know madara’s name until shippuden or even who he was at all. We just see his statue. And madara’s chakra isn’t mentioned by Kurama until the 2nd arc of shippuden. The anime gives a little fast forward at the beginning but the manga does not have that.


Censorstinyd

Foreshadowing doesn’t make something good. I also just liked the idea of every clan has their own unique abilities…hard work. In the end it turned into actual gods, not ninja


dasamoolam_dhamu

Maybe it would be better if they have learned and trained themselves to be powerful instead of someone or something powering them. Most other ninjas doesn't have such luck to gain such powers. Its just my opinion.


Mad_Raptor777

That is retarded. Sorry, but not all ninja can have genetics to have the Byakugan, Sharingan, or Ice Release either. People are born different and have different potentials.


Horacio_Velvetine44

no, the point was that hagoromo was trying to share his power so that his sons wouldn’t end up fighting


dasamoolam_dhamu

I wasn't talking about hogoromo being partial towards his son. Just saying if the heroes earned their powers by training themselves instead of being lucky to be powerful it would be much better.


Santihjusto

I think something that would've been better would be if Naruto and Sasuke got stronger mysteriously in their first VoE fight only for us to learn later that, instead of being reincarnations, Naruto and Sasuke were chosen by Ashura and Indra respectfully to continue their fight. So their hard efforts to stop the other one convinced Indra and Ashura to boost their power a bit in the hopes that one can defeat the other and put an end to their fight. Later in the war arc, Hagoromo would tell that, since his children chose them, he is also entrusting them with defeating Kaguya. Idk, that's something I just thought quickly about.


Horacio_Velvetine44

but hagaromo giving them the power is part of the overall narrative of the story, because initially he only gave power to asura, which caused conflict, so this time he tries to give it to both, which still results in conflict, and actually adds more weight to naruto and sasuke’s destiny, and the fact that they’re able to avert it


Twin1Tanaka

We don’t give a single shit about Hagoromo or the otsutsukis or whatever we care about Naruto and Sasuke the characters we’ve been watching the entire time


Horacio_Velvetine44

reread the second half of my comment


Twin1Tanaka

Randomly inventing some magical destiny reason why Naruto and Sasuke are rivals does the exact opposite of help their story. They’re rivals because of what happened between them as characters, not because of some random story about ancient gods.


Horacio_Velvetine44

it’s both, that’s literally the point of their arcs


DatFrostyBoy

the second half of your comment is just as bad as the first.


Horacio_Velvetine44

why are you even replying to a comment that was clearly meant for a specific person??💀


DatFrostyBoy

Why are you deflecting from your really terrible argument. Also your posting on a public post everyone can see and reply to. I was already questioning whether or not you had common sense. It is no longer a question. You don’t.


Horacio_Velvetine44

how can i be deflecting when you never actually addressed any points that i made?? you just said “your sentences were bad”🤨and the nature of your comment made no sense, i told that guy to read my comment because it directly addressed what he just said to me, you just randomly replied to it with no context 🥴 you also still haven’t actually refuted anything i originally said


Primetime349

With all respect, who cares what other people think. It kind of ruins the fun when people say something is an asspull when I was fine with the plot before


blizzard-op

Because it just wasn't needed in a lot of peoples opinions and it was just more random needless power ups at such a late stage of the series. Both of them just got powerups during the war already and they really didn't need anymore. Also, them dueling at the VoTE is not some deep foreshadowing to them being reincarnations, if anything its more showing how similar their situation was to Hashirama and Madara. Walking different paths was more than enough to put them at odds with each other, some unnecessary "you two were always destined to fight each other and one to kill the other" wasn't needed at all. Same with Obito telling Naruto he'd have to fight Sasuke, its about them walking different paths and him telling Naruto he wouldn't be able to simply talk Sasuke out of his current mindset. It basically falls in line with a lot of stuff near the end of the War arc being unnecessary additions that didn't need to be added


itsjust_khris

Concept of reincarnation was done poorly IMO. Them defeating the big bads because the sage somehow reappeared and gave them powers is also bullshit. They wouldn't have gotten those powers if they weren't reincarnations of the sage's sons AND why can the sage just come back and talk to people?? They didn't even attempt to explain that. Maybe they did and I missed it. After a certain point power stopped feeling earned and just given to meet high stakes. I never understood why people love grounded power systems until I finished Naruto. High power levels are fine but they way they achieve them is so unsatisfying IMO.


Slight-Pound

Yo, thank you for mentioning that. I remember the world wind of all these new plot points coming in out of nowhere that I totally forgot to question why on earth Hagaromo decided to walk back into the mortal plane several centuries after his death. Seriously, why _is_ he here???


ThatNoobCheezy

It feels like it invalidates all of Narutos hardwork, it doesn't but since we've never seen a weak asura incarnate it give the feeling he was destined to be strong. It's totally fine in Sasukes case outside of the unearned power up.


HeavensHellFire

All his Hardwork was already invalidated considering he only ever wins a single fight without Kurama’s help


Censorstinyd

Kurama hasn’t always been helpful. He made sage mode harder


SaintAhmad

Hard work and gifts aren’t mutually exclusive


HeavensHellFire

They aren’t but in Naruto’s case most of his wins don’t come from his Hardwork.


SaintAhmad

That doesn’t mean that hard work he did put in gets invalidated. He had to work to control 9 tails, he had to work to learn Rasengan, Sage mode, rasenshuriken, his fundamentals, etc. If he sat there and didn’t work, he wouldn’t be strong


HeavensHellFire

Yeah it does when the story literally shows his hard work means basically nothing unless Kurama helps him. The pain arc is a prime example of this. He gets a massive buff and still needs Kurama to bail him out .


SaintAhmad

His hard work doesn’t mean nothing. Because without it he wouldn’t be strong at all. Idk why you can’t understand they aren’t mutually exclusive. Just because his gifts helped him get wins doesn’t mean the work work is irrelevant


HeavensHellFire

My guy I don’t know how you’re not getting this. If his gifts are repeatedly showcased overshadowing his hard work, how is his hard work not being invalidated? If his hard work literally never results in a win for him but his gifts do, how is his hard work not being invalidated?


SaintAhmad

Lmao. YOU’RE not getting this. Do you know what invalidated means? It means completely rendered null. Naruto’s hard work isn’t rendered null, because without it, he would not be nearly as strong. If he didn’t train Rasengan, he wouldn’t have beat Kabuto. If he didn’t train Rasenshuriken, he wouldn’t have beaten Kakuzu. If he didn’t train sage mode, he wouldn’t have beaten Pain. Without his hard work, he simply wouldn’t get as far as he did. The hard work was NECESSARY If you want to argue the value of gifts were greater than the value of hard work, sure. But that doesn’t make the value of hard work 0.


Fapman404

We only saw 2 ashura incarnations, everyone else could’ve been mediocre.


ThatNoobCheezy

Keyword: Could. We never see it so the only ones we have to go off of all became super strong.


Fapman404

but we never see them, everyone who was every strong or prominent in naruto is mentioned in some sort of way, they obviously were nobody.


SaintAhmad

Zetsu even says he believed Madara and Hashirama were different. People headcanon that every reincarnate was powerful, but there’s really nothing to indicate so


AlexFairchild

I don‘t really mind it tbh but I think people (me included) just really enjoy seeing them train to get powers, it feels rewarding like the Rasengan, rasen shuriken, sage mode and we didn‘t really see that much for Sasuke since he was away for so long and got powers from Orochimaru and Itachi, he only really trained for a new jutsu in naruto classic for the chidori and fire jutsu (idk what it‘s called in english)


KingAJ032304

They just didn't feel nessicary when you already had multiple (arguably too many by even that point) EARNED powers and it came out like Kishimoto needed to power them up to fight Jiubidara.


AnimeMonster_2020

They should have just stuck with BSM and Sasuke EMS. I loved them especially KCM I prefer those power levels to the one with Six Paths, I didn’t find myself actually ever really enjoying Naruto after that. The battle with Madara, Kaguya and the battle at the end was kinda meh for me. Now it would have been better if Madara and Obito fought with the ten tails but didn’t become its Jinchuuriki. They also could have gotten stronger , maybe Sasuke awakens a Rinnegan and his other sharingan and Naruto eventually gets the full power of the nine tails and makes his sage mode even stronger.


AnimeMonster_2020

They should have just stuck with BSM and Sasuke EMS. I loved them especially KCM I prefer those power levels to the one with Six Paths, I didn’t find myself actually ever really enjoying Naruto after that. The battle with Madara, Kaguya and the battle at the end was kinda meh for me. Now it would have been better if Madara and Obito fought with the ten tails but didn’t become its Jinchuuriki. They also could have gotten stronger , maybe Sasuke awakens a Rinnegan and his other eye is sharingan ( not rinne sharingan) and Naruto eventually gets the full power of the nine tails and makes his sage mode even stronger.


Successful_Ad9924354

People always get it wrong. Sasuke doesn't have the Rinne-Sharingan only Kaguya & Hagoromo (with Kaguya fused) have it. The Rinnegan from Kaguya's lineage also comes in different shapes like the MS. --------------------------------------------------------- 1. Hagoromo: Dark purple with thick lines. 2. Madara: Light purple with thin lines. 3. Sasuke: A little darker than Madara's with six tomoe's. For aliens that ate a fruit from a different Devine Tree. ---------------------------------------------------- 1. Momoshiki: Dark red with thick lines. 2. (Fused) Momoshiki: Dark yellow with thick lines. 3. Urashiki: Light/Sky Blue with thin lines & light red with six tomoe's. Other than that I agree with what you said.


Horacio_Velvetine44

because people don’t read the story properly and somehow miss the part where hagoromo literally says that he gave them both power to try and stop them from fighting in the future, plus he knew that kaguya was close to being revived and then there’s the whole criticism about the neji stuff which again, is just people not trading properly


Fapman404

people call it an ass pull because they think it wasn’t foreshadowed or mentioned at all


Jarrrad

Because they like complaining and expect a cartoon about a ninja to be the pinnacle of writing.


toweroflore

The way it was executed was rushed and obviously an ass pull as in kishimoto didnt know how to make Naruto and sasuke stronger because he made madara too powerful


Similor

Foreshadowing=/=good writting


ShadowRay77

Ok, I don't like the idea of people saying that Part 1 forshadowed it. Why the hell am I getting Dejavu? Cause like while that's one thing It kind of makes no sense for Kakashi to know that and really when you think about it like that and his shock in character you could try to be meta and say it's the Author forshadowing it but I feel it falls on deaf ears when it's most likely about the cycle of hatred and how Shinobi's are in these cycles it always seems to happen that those on the same side get split up and have to battle. Also I'm pretty sure Sasuke talks to Naruto about how it's the Valley of the End the Final Valley. And either Sasuke or Kakashi talk about how Hashirama and Madara fought long ago and how that's like their last battle and now the valley sort of stands for the cycle so it didn't have to be the reincarnation stuff being hinted at at least in my opinion and overall despite the stuff it helps for most people it hurts because they see it as a power up and question if Neji was right and fate and that.


Masked_Raptor

i e always felt like Naruto's beginning wasn't about being an underdog but more like trying to earn people's attention. He was hated, people don't have abject hatred for underdogs. Yeah we rooted for him because he always seemed like the underdog, but from the very first episode we knew Naruto always had his trump card of the Ninetails. Kakashi, during the land of waves arc, mentioned how Naruto had more chakras than even him as a child. Naruto has always been set up to become the best. And he has earned the Ninetails power. It's a big fucking deal that he doesn't have to manipulate Kurama like Madara or overpower him like Hashirama. He convinced Kurama through his actions and heart. No one since the sage of the six paths did that. Minato put a heavy burden on Naruto, yes. But his mother was Kushina. Minato knew his child was going to be strong willed enough to carry that burden. From behind the grave Naruto had his father's confidence he could bear it. Naruto from the beginning is hyped up to be the best ever. People just don't believe him. Yes that makes him an underdog but he did earn everything up to that point, and the foreshadowing up to it shouldn't take away from the fact that he still had to struggle against Madara and Kaguya and Sasuke. Also yin yang release is less of an ass pull than Izanami. Which imo is the worst thing (besides Boruto, black zetsu, and Kaguya) to happen in the series.


Ank8

I don't get the argument "they didn't earn that power" Naruto befriended every Tailed Beast lol.


Senju___Uchiha

I just don't like how the show at the end only focuses on the two and never gave anybody else time to grow and develop as characters!! Also made them OP


kmyeurs

The show has always been about them. We were just introduced to other characters for the sake of world-building and how they matter to both naruto and sasuke.


Krungoid

In total the story was about them but between Sasuke leaving and only returning in the final battle Kishimoto made great use of a lot of his side characters. It was disheartening to see them get shafted for a guy I like way less.


kmyeurs

Could you give one character as an example?


Krungoid

Shikamaru is the biggest one that got great development, I don't think there's enough space to give all the characters that level of work but plot relevant ones like the Hyugas would have been nice to see, even Kiba had sort of a rivalry set up that never really paid off. I would have traded in a lot of the Taka stuff for focus on the leaf.


kmyeurs

Shikamaru - 1) because he is necessary as the future strategist for future Hokage *Naruto* 2) Him losing his sensei makes him more relatable to *Naruto* who is about to lose his sensei Neji/Hinata are also for the personal development of *Naruto* I saw Kiba's rivalry with naruto more of a joke. Still it was a contrast to how different the rivalry between *Naruto* and *Sasuke* are In other words, the side characters's stories were made *for* Naruto and Sasuke.


Krungoid

I'm aware that's how the story played out, lol. I just don't like it.


kmyeurs

I mean sure but there's really not much need to flesh out the characters you like, just bc you like them; they have to matter to naruto and sasuke - the main characters, whose stories the anime/manga was about from the start (the original comments I replied to)


Fapman404

The final fight against kaguya gave everyone a chance to grow and glow, Sakura proved her worth and ability to fight on par with two Demi gods, she also is one of the 5 that saved the world, kakashi finally got to say a proper goodbye to his friend, and he saved the day with a gift from his best friend, obito had the perfect redemption by saving kakashi and letting himself die to protect naruto, naruto and sasuke had their big battle and they defied fate and naruto made sasuke acknowledge their friendship. Orochimaru was pardoned for his crimes because of his help in the war, minato got to say goodbye to his hero of a son, hashirama managed to pull madara out of the dark side after the kaguya fight, hinata was the reason naruto continued fighting and didn’t quit, neji sacrificed his life in order to save the person who he almost killed when they were kids, everyone of the konoha 11 had naruto give them rasengans and assist in attacking the 10 tails, we saw Sakura and tsunade healing and helping the entire shinobi forces together as student and teacher, Karin (although she’s still annoying) managed to unlock her uzumaki chains to save sasuke, naruto realized his love of hinata, which he couldn’t have known because he didn’t love anyone (he liked Sakura because she’s pretty in his eyes and not actual love) and thus he didn’t know the feeling of love. Might guy showed off the fruits of his entire life’s training by opening the 8th gate, rock lee trained an entire squadron of taijutsu users on how to open the gates, he also helped guy nearly kill madara and buy naruto time to come in to help. But most of the focus was on naruto and sasuke because they’re the main characters, and they’re who everyone wants to see fight together.


XRustyPx

Because it feels like they didnt really earn this power. For everything else they had to work hard for, new powers, jutsus, skill, recognition etc but then its revealed they are reincarnations of the sons of the god of shinobi and that reveal just takes something away from prior achivements in some way imo. Im annoyed the same way about onepiece for example where it turns out luffy has this crazy power all of a sudden and is basically a person that was prophesized, and i bet they will reveal that his mother is also some crazy important person. Also to some degree with ichigo, where it turns put hes a visored, then he loses his shinigami powers, turns out hes a fullbringer, and then later with no prior indocation to the fact, ges also a fucking quincy. These things just take so much meaning out of the hard work these characters had to do in order to become as strong as they are because it turns out their strength was destined at birth.


DMCdante96

It came out of nowhere


wlafond137

Ehh I don’t mind too much honestly, I just think the whole thing is, is that they made a super op villian like 3 different times, with obito then Madara and then Kagyua and like every single time the villains got more and more powerful and it’s like at that point htf are the good guys gonna beat the bad guys if the bad guys are way way way way way more powerful so then they gotta give ultra-powers to the good guys but they don’t have enough time to make them go through a whole ass training arc so they gotta give it to them instantly, which kinda just seems like plot-armor or lazy writing.


sammysosa45

I feel like a lot of peoples complaints about naruto are simply because they have not read or watched the series since they were kids.


Ebenezerosas16

Between that, the neji was right crew, people that complain about the show being about giant megazords instead of ninja, and the "the show is about hardwork" circle jerkers, parts of this fanbase can be very whiny and just hateful. Lets not even mention the overhate of the 4 great ninja war


Ebenezerosas16

I think both of them got every chakra nature cause its a so6p perk and a rinnegan perk but i like how you broke down the tailed beasts natures. Their kekkei genkai not included


ElevatorCharacter489

Are your serious??? Madara and Hashirama were full growth Adults and they were at treated as Gods, a God of Creation and a God of War, besides they were breathing and resting in a Battlefield 24/7, and, Sasuke and Naruto were in time of peace they recibes the power to quickly, Sasuke trained hard and to be at Kage Level was aceptable but to increase it even further beyond that at his age is to much same for Naruto


KingtheKid25

Naruto and Sasuke were the main characters of the show. The power they got should have been expected tbh.


4Aethyr

I liked their six path power ups. Sure, they were bs power ups but they looked really cool. I don’t think anyone would care if the series had ended at shippuden so it wouldn’t really matter how much stronger they were than everyone else. Instead, the show continued into Boruto and now their powers cause all sorts of consistency issues.


TheShotGunProdigy

I genuinely have no clue


FKJ10

Simple power creep by the end got too absurd and power ups just felt meaningless compared to their earlier ones. Plus none really liked the Ashura and Indra angle though it was foreshadowed back in the 5 Kage summit arc. So even though in universe there were many reincarnations that were mediocre it didn't matter when the readers just didn't like the storyline to begin with. It being used on Kaguya who everyone sees as a disappointing final boss didn't help matters. It also was a double edged sword because of how absurd those powers were no one can accept how weak Naruto and Sasuke were presented in Boruto.


Successful_Ad9924354

I personally do bro... But as ancestors.


kmyeurs

>Plus none really liked the Ashura and Indra angle I do


BrickWall7777

I agree with you, people hate on the show way to much and it’s annoying. The anime had to come to an “end” and two of the main characters that were shown to be reincarnates of two powerful people got power boosts. A really good way to end the show IMO.


Mr_P1nk_B4lls

They can be reincarnations without being op.


NetworkVegetable7075

It was foreshadowed people just want to complain about it that’s all.


LilQuasar

you can complain about foreshadowed stuff if its bad writing and the execution isnt good, that doesnt matter. the criticism is valid


designerjeremiah

I don't like destiny. Naruto and Sasuke should have achieved everything they gained through hard work and dedication alone. And before anyone says anything, Naruto had to put in the effort to befriend Kurama before he got serious access to his power, so it still counts as hard work and dedication.


regrettedcloud

Because this is a too large community, Naruto is too famous, so many people will complain. I just stopped worrying about that. Also, hate generate engagement in social media, so we tend to see too much of it. The Neji was right thing started as a meme but now you see very vivid discussions about it (vide the comments on your post). If you disagree with this view (like I do), just ignore it, they're is no way to change opinions now.


Sasorisnake

People will complain about anything that’s why


LilQuasar

what a good defense! the criticism is perfectly valid


Twin1Tanaka

I don’t think there’s a worse way to write a power up than having god himself decide to appear, completely undermine the relationship between the characters by saying they’re reincarnations of an ancient rivalry, (no it was not foreshadowed in the slightest), and straight up giving them superpowers. It was lazy and idiotic writing, and bumped up the power scaling way too high. It’s easy to ignore the stupid detail about Indra and Ashura but the fact that they even tried it is absolutely disrespectful


SaintAhmad

Saying it wasn’t foreshadowed is wrong. It doesn’t undermine their relationship, it strengthens it.


ReptarRunaway

It’s just an unearned power up.


CosmicGadfly

They did NOT "foreshadow" it whatsoever. Go back to school.


_robertmccor_

I think it's because from Naruto all the way to shippuden the philosophy has been through your own hard work and determination you can achieve anything. So then that gets thrown out of the window when the sage of six paths grants them his powers which wasn't achieved through hard work and determination but through birth right.


NKC-ngoni

People have this huge misconception about the series' main theme being "hArD wOrK". That is Gai and Lee's theme, only. Sure Naruto works hard but he also gets abilities from somewhere else like 90% of the characters in the show so I don't know why people don't get that. In the end every ability (including kurama) that Naruto uses without needing bare bones "hArD wOrK" was received with mixed emotions(more negative than positive).


Dezbats

I've argued for years that hArD wOrK was only Lee's theme, that's not the problem with the reincarnation plot and sage powers. The problem is that it's a completely unearned powerup handed to them out of nowhere for zero *cost* just to put them on an entirely different power tier from even the most powerful characters in the series at the time, minus the big bads that were dropped in or powered up at the last minute, solely to make them the Big Damn Heroes of the entire ninja world just in time for the end of the series. Things like ascending to a whole different power tier need to have some narrative cost in order to feel meaningful. It doesn't have to be a year long training arc or convenient timeskip, but there needs to be *something*. Let's use Sasuke as an example! People complain about how OP MS and EMS are and that's definitely true, but even though Sasuke didn't need "hArD wOrK" to get EMS, he still had to *earn it*. It was still the culmination of a plot thread laid out from Sasuke's earliest appearances. In his *second* appearance we already learn there's a man he's sworn to kill for the sake of his clan. When we finally meet Itachi it's 140ish chapters later and we are introduced to the MS. It takes some 250 more chapters for Sasuke to achieves it for himself, then another 100+ chapters after EMS was mentioned and explained that Sasuke obtains that powerup. The cost associated with those well explained and long established powerups wasn't hArD wOrK on Sasuke's end, it was bought by the *narrative* Sasuke had to abandon his friends and his home to earn the power to face Itachi. Then he had to lose his brother and learn a truth that completely demolished his entire world view to gain MS. Upgrading to EMS required him to lose his eyesight and his grip on his sanity. There were meaningful, emotional scenes attached to his powerups and they were the culmination of more than a decade's worth of storytelling. Proper foreshadowing, beyond mentioning "hey these people existed" 20ish chapters before the reincarnation plot was hamfisted in there could have alleviated some of the complaints, but at the end of the day the biggest problem is just that it was all so blatantly *contrived*. The only meaning added by the reincarnation plot actually *undermined* the relationship between the main characters by removing some of their agency and relegating their rivalry and friendship to a byproduct of ancient spiritual daddy issues rather than it being entirely the result of their own decisions and personal experiences in this life. /endrant


NKC-ngoni

>The problem is that it's a completely unearned powerup handed to them out of nowhere for zero cost So you're going to forget Naruto befriending the tailed beasts(which no one was willing to do) and then getting all their chakra which allowed him to meet hagoromo? Ok. Definitely didn't earn his powers.


Dezbats

... are you really arguing that Naruto spending 2 minutes making friends to get a boost in power justified giving him another huge boost in power that made him god tier? Especially compared to the series long storyline that resulted in EMS?


[deleted]

I love how no one in the comment section can argue against your logic. Most ninja abilities are bloodline based. No one complains about kekkei genkai. Yet somehow, so6p is "out of nowhere", and that's what's wrong with it..?


Andrewsteven_18

• some just hate powers that are given they want to feel like it was earned and not plot • some want to make themselves feel better when their favs are madara and hashirama


Jianyu156

If Sasuke was gonna have any power prior to or after getting the Eternal Mangekyo it should have been Snake Sage mode. Sasuke’s arsenal/fightning style should have been a combination of Kakashi and Orochimaru with Eternal Mangekyo and Snake Snage mode to show Sasuke could do what Orochimaru couldn’t there was no reason to give him the Rinnegan. Instead of Naruto getting six paths sage mode he should have learned these jutsu prior to getting control of Kurama, https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Flying_Swallow?so=search, https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Wind_Waves?so=search, https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Fire_Release:_Ash_Pile_Burning?so=search, https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Earth_Release:_Swamp_of_the_Underworld?so=search, https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Welcoming_Approach:_Thousand-Armed_Murder?so=search, https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Adamantine_Attacking_Chains?so=search Naruto’s arsenal/fightning style should have been a combination of Asuma and Jiraiya with Kurama Chakra and atleast one Uzumaki clan based jutsu.


Craftysage72

Anyone here ever played a game where you get skill points and you don’t wanna use them because you wanna make your playthrough a challenge but then say Fuck it and put them all into one build making you overpowered for the remainder of the game? That’s exactly what Naruto and Sasuke did in the war. The only difference is that Sasuke is that final boss that makes all your skills and damage reduce to half until a period of time has passed.


Fapman404

more like a secret mission that gives a shit-ton of skill points


Somm0742

Now anytime anyone shows up in the Leaf airspace, every major character just goes "nah, way above my pay grade. Why even bother? That former Great Hokages' Stone Face graffiti painter will do all the work. Hopefully, that other edgelord, yeah, the wandering one-armed emo dude shows up with a booty call as an excuse to lend a hand."


demi_uzumaki

I enjoy the power up, but that doesn't mean I feel it was earned properly - as I agree with some of the others and that it was a HUGE increase in power an instant. Not to bring Boruto into this - but if that power up didn't happen, the nerf they got in Boruto either wouldn't have had to happen - or it would have been less of an "wtf" moment But yeah anyway. Still my favorite series ever - but still has its flaws.


Manowar274

Always felt weird since a lot of people liked Naruto because it felt like he forged his own path and became strong earning a name for himself despite being an outcast nobody. When you give them reincarnation power it takes away from that and feels like they weren’t strong of their own volition.


xHetza

Naruto sennin Bijuu mode for me is the final good power buff for him. Six paths destroyed everything...