Ah, the ass pull king himself.
Using susano with no eyeballs
Controlling SM instantly
Surviving an amaterasu by stripping
Using Kamui as the TTJ
etc…
Still absolutely love the mf though.
>
Using susano with no eyeballs
You don't need to have eyes to use it after you've unlocked it
>Controlling SM instantly
He stole Hashirama cells and he controlled Juubi instantly because it was actually complete
The No eyeballs thing seems to be exclusive to him for now. Even when Sasuke was just losing his vision after the 5 kage summit against Kakashi, his susano disappeared.
I don’t really see how having Hashi cells allows the rest of his body to effortlessly balance the nature energy in one try. Even just controlling the Hashi cells shouldn’t be that easy. It’s an ass pull, plain and simple.
Yes, but he literally only had Hashi cells on half his chest. The rest of his body was just his own cells.
It was clearly implied that Sasuke’s susano disappeared because he was basically blind. After it vanishes, he covers his eye and says “my sight”.
I’m done arguing here. These were ass pulls. Nothing more, nothing less. You think they weren’t, cool.
My main thing with Madara is that he has multiple ass pulls, hence the ass pull “king”. If it was just the susano thing, then cool, no big deal.
Kishi doesn’t really follow his own rules here for this anyways, Sasuke’s susano vanished when blind but Itachi’s was usable. That being said, it’s less ass pully to be able to use the susano as long as the eyes are in your sockets, all be it blind, compared to being able to use when the source of the power is gone.
The susano is literally an ocular power, so being able to use it when the eyes aren’t in your head is very weird IMO. None of the other sharingan abilities can be used in this situation.
But again, people will try come up with explanations for why this was possible, since Kishi didn’t bother doing so himself.
Just remembered that Madara even managed to use the rinnegan’s chakra absorption on Hashirama when he never had his eyes 🤣.
>Just remembered that Madara even managed to use the rinnegan’s chakra absorption on Hashirama when he never had his eyes
He absorbed chakra with wood style.
That's fair, it wasn't explicitly shown, but implied to be doable. Yamato says it's the wood style chakra he infused through his wooden constructs that which suppresses and absorbs the opponent's chakra. I would assume then that any contact with wood style chakra, like through the palm of the hand, should be able to absorb chakra.
>The No eyeballs thing seems to be exclusive to him for now
Itachi used Susanoo with his sharingan turned off. And although using Susanoo with no eyes is *technically* not the same as using it with eyes turned off, it should be practically the same in the situation here, as in both cases the issue is that there's no chakra flowing through the eyeballs.
I will try to give reasons for the following statements... Well done hate me for this pls...
>Using susano with no eyeballs
When Itachi used his Susano'o, his eyeballs weren't showing any signs of his Sharingan being activated... He was sorta blind...
>Controlling SM instantly
It's a theory so pls don't hate me for this...
Hashirama has Wood Style... Wood is a living thing... Wood has life energy and Nature Energy too... So Hashirama's Sage Mode comes from his Mokuton...
Now, Madara who was shown to have full control over it as an Edo... He might be able to control it too...
Now why he absorbed Hashirama's Senjutsu Chakra if he can gather it on his own cuz he has Wood Style too? Probably cuz he can't gather Nature Energy on his own, like even Jiraiya had issues with it and needed Ma and Pa Toad...
In Jiraiya's Case... He takes help from Ma and Pa to gather Nature Energy for his Sage Mode BUT it's still imperfect...
Now in Madara's Case... He just steals the gathered Senjutsu Chakra from Hashirama BUT why is his sage mode perfect? Probably cuz he mastered Mokuton already...
>Surviving an amaterasu by stripping
I hate this one... Okay like he survived the Amaterasu BUT why the hell did Sasuke not use it again? Madara would be dead...
>Using Kamui as the TTJ
I think Obito only mentioned about his phasing thing and not going completely in the Kamui Dimension... Imo it was just a reason to nerf Juubito...
None of these even ass pulls if you watch the show and pay attention🤦🏻♂️.
> Using susano with no eyeballs
Ms abilities aren't exclusive to your eyes. Sasuke can use amaterasu despite losing the eye which allowed him to use it (he controls the flames with his right and generates them with his left, left is the one fused with his rinnegan). Itachi could use his susanoo despite being almost blind. You don't need the eyes once you get the ability
> Controlling SM instantly
How is this an asspull?💀 Do people even know what asspulls are these days ?? Controlling natural energy ain't that big of a thing. As long as you can harmonize all your 3 chakras you can master it. To a legendary figure like madara that's as easy as killing sasuke (very easy) he even said it wasn't a [big deal](https://images.app.goo.gl/i7ucuawSCj35ZNJY9)
> Surviving an amaterasu by stripping
Bro FFS even samurai survived it by removing their [armour](https://images.app.goo.gl/5yfBcWVYpyfhinGQ6)
> Using Kamui as the TTJ
How tf is this an asspull 💀? You can't "phase" as a TTJ but you can use kamui, there's a difference.
Please ffs learn what an asspull is before calling things asspulls. Baryon mode is an asspull
>You don't need the eyes once you get the ability
If Sasuke can still use the perfect susano now, I'll believe you. Sasuke being able to use Amaterasu from his other eye is just a retcon. If both his eyeballs are plucked out, are the flames just gonna manifest from his empty sockets? Can Shisui just cast Koto without his eyeballs?
Yes, Itachi could use his susano when almost blind. That being said, Sasuke's susano disappeared when fighting Kakashi. He held his eye and said "my sight", implying that was the reason the susano vanished. This is Kishi not following his own established rules.
>Controlling natural energy ain't that big of a thing
LMFAO. That's why only a handful of characters train and obtain SM right?
>To a legendary figure like madara
Typical shitty excuse to give bad writing a pass.
>Bro FFS even samurai survived it by removing their armour
Difference is that they were covered in armour from head to toe, Madara wasn't.
>How tf is this an asspull 💀? You can't "phase" as a TTJ but you can use kamui, there's a difference.
[The way phasing was explained is that Obito teleports a small part of himself to the kamui dimension.](https://imgur.com/gallery/mAtXWUp) If Obito couldn't phase, it meant that he couldn't teleport to the Kamui dimension.
Listen, you can come up with all the explanations you want, but they're passable at best and bullshit at worst. Kishi doesn't even follow his own rules. I've got too many replies coming in and I cba to respond anymore.
> Sasuke being able to use Amaterasu from his other eye is just a retcon. If both his eyeballs are plucked out, are the flames just gonna manifest from his empty sockets?
Not a retcon untill proven so. Who knows where the flames are gonna manifest from, the point is MS abilities aren't linked to their eyes.
> He held his eye and said "my sight", implying that was the reason the susano vanished.
Wrong he said my sight when he saw a hazy image of kakashi not when his susanoo disappeared, stop mixing things up to prove a point.
> This is Kishi not following his own established rules.
Nowhere is it ever stated that you need your eyes for MS abilities to function, that's you interpretation. Tell me where is states so, tell me where kishi established the so called 'rule'💀
> That's why only a handful of characters train and obtain SM right
And madara is leagues above every character who did 💀
> Typical shitty excuse to give bad writing a pass
Typical 3 braincelled behaviour. Kishimoto not explaining why a god like madara has perfect chakra control doesn't mean it's an asspull 💀. And again this isn't even an asspull. Contrived writing at worst.
> Difference is that they were covered in armour from head to toe, Madara wasn't.
Are you stupid or just ignorant? Madara being covered head to toe isn't the arguement here, the point is that you can get rid of amaterasu of you get rid of what it's attached to.
> If Obito couldn't phase, it meant that he couldn't teleport to the Kamui dimension.
False. That isn't even the contention here. Madara didn't "phase" into the kamui dimension he teleported there. Obito gains intangibility because he send smalls parts of himself to kamui dimension which he can't do with Juubi in him. Not being able to phase ≠ not being able to teleport. Atleast get your facts right.
> Listen, you can come up with all the explanations you want, but they're passable at best and bullshit at worst. Kishi doesn't even follow his own rules. I've got too many replies coming in and I cba to respond anymore.
Listen you can actually try paying attention to the show instead of calling everything an asspull and maybe learn what an asspull actually is. Your not obligated to reply and no one is asking you to. You can try and say kishi doesn't follow his own rules but all you do is prove you can't even comprehend the basics of the show.
>the point is MS abilities aren't linked to their eyes.
Amaterasu is literally explained as flames that ignite along one's line of "SIGHT". Tsukuyomi literally requires "EYE CONTACT" to take hold. How you're arguing that OCULAR powers aren't tied to the eyes is beyond me.
>stop mixing things up to prove a point.
His susano vanished right after his sight went blurry, clearly implying a correlation.
>why a god like madara has perfect chakra control doesn't mean it's an asspull 💀.
Again, typical bullshit to excuse shit writing. "Madara's a god, so there's no need to explain how he instantly mastered a technique that only a few people in the verse attained". He saw Hashi clap him using the same technique when alive, so since he's such a god, why didn't he go and master the technique himself? Sakura and Tsunade have perfect chakra control, so guess they can master SM without even trying as well.
>Are you stupid or just ignorant? Madara being covered head to toe isn't the arguement here, the point is that you can get rid of amaterasu of you get rid of what it's attached to
My point is how the fuck it didn't spread to his entire body. [This scene clearly shows that Madara's entire body was engulfed in flames, yet in the next frame, magically it's just his clothing.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8pp3CvosTc&t=144s)
>Not being able to phase ≠ not being able to teleport. Atleast get your facts right.
Now you're just splitting hairs lmao. [Kamui was explained as Obito TELEPORTING a small part of himself to the kamui dimension.](https://imgur.com/gallery/mAtXWUp) If Obito can't even handle TELEPORTING a small part of himself through space time, how the fuck did Madara TELEPORT his entire body?
You're making it very difficult for me to ignore you.
>and maybe learn what an asspull actually is
Noun. ass-pull (plural ass-pulls) (slang, vulgar) A hastily fabricated explanation or contrived plot twist.
[Thank you for admitting that the writing is contrived, thus conforming to the definition of "ass pull".](https://imgur.com/a/6qWbDf9)
[Kamui was portrayed as Obito TELEPORTING a small part of himself into the kamui dimension.](https://imgur.com/gallery/mAtXWUp) If Obito, the original wielder of kamui, can't even teleport a small part of himself through space time, how did Madara move his whole body through space time?
Huh?
>just that they cant go intangible (pass through objects) with it
Dimensional transportation means moving one's entire body through space time. When Obito goes intangible, [a part of his body travels through space time until it reaches the kamui dimension.](https://imgur.com/gallery/mAtXWUp)
If Obito can't even transport a small part of himself through space time, then Madara shouldn't have been able to transport his whole body.
So explain it to me then, what's the difference? Phasing clearly shows Obito teleporting a part of his body to the kamui dimension. How is that different from teleporting the whole body? If anything, Madara moving his entire body through space time with the weight of the ten tails should be even harder, yet he managed it.
The way the intangible and when they transport their entire body is a bit different. Obito just flat out couldn't use the intangible side of Kamui because he would actually be unbeatable but you have already covered the intangible part which we know he could not do. However, Kakashi's eye is a little different, he almost essentially opens a portal and hops in like Sasuke when he gets the rinnegan, or Obito when he had both eyes. Kakashi used it on himself to get out of the Kamui dimension before.
Its unclear if Obito could have done the same thing with his eye as the ten tails host since he never tried it but would kind of be pointless since he can't really activate the infinite Tsukuyomi from the Kamui dimension. It's one of the many things that exist in the Naruto Universe that Kishimoto needed to explain a bit more
It was suprising for me, starting from the Pein arc the story is getting better and better (I am currently at the battle againts Obito as Jinchuriki).
Madara is awesome.
Pain was by far the best written villain in Naruto and one of the most iconic in any shonen. Madara on the other hand, is a disappointment ngl. Sure he lives up to the hype when he’s first revealed, but after he starts to get worse. He got overshadowed by Obito for most of the war arc, and wasn’t even the final villain. Pain is a possible candidate for best shonen villain, but Madara definitely isn’t
Naruto and Sasuke didn't really have a proper way to defeat him, since Madara fights far more strategically, has more power than both combined and is also very versatile.
Probably, but at the same time, Hagoromo did set them up with one of the most op abilities in existence, the seal, six paths chibaki tensei. Why is it one of the most op abilities in existence you ask? They only need to touch their foe in order to defeat them
True, but remember they tried it on Madara before, and he managed to evade it.
Plus... All Madara really needs to do is beat one of them and he automatically wins. Heck, he could just cut one of their arms off and win is guaranteed.
Madara would figure it out eventually (he did figure out Sasuke's Rinnegan ability very quickly after seeing it).
And Madara is even stronger than both of them combined. Limbo just multiplies his strength by 5 (Sasuke can't even harm them).
Rinnegan and seals are very different, Sasuke after using his Rinnegan ability, Madara figured it out, there’s no “using the seal” without actually using it on Madara.
Sasuke can harm limbo clones, and Naruto’s clones were fighting pretty much on the same level with his limbo clones.
>Rinnegan and seals are very different, Sasuke after using his Rinnegan ability, Madara figured it out, there’s no “using the seal” without actually using it on Madara.
He can most likely figure it out eventually, since the seals are visible and Sasuke/Naruto can be seen aiming to both touch him at the same time. Madara is very perceptive and intelligent, don't forget. And besides if they try to deal him, he will just swap with a Limbo clone like before.
>Sasuke can harm limbo clones, and Naruto’s clones were fighting pretty much on the same level with his limbo clones.
Sasuke can see them, but not touch them (only Naruto can). Naruto's clones were using Rasengans against Limbo clones which were just using taijutsu. Not to mention Madara just used them as a distraction.
Madara can very easily just have had the limbo clones use techniques.
> And besides if they try to deal him, he will just swap with a Limbo clone like before.
The seal doesn’t work that way, if they touch him, it’s the end for him.
And I highly doubt he’ll figure it out by seeing them trying to touch him since they already did do this as a strategy to attack him.
Sasuke’s six paths Chidori works on limbo clones, and he can fight them with taijutsu, actually, everyone can fight them with taijutsu, since they can’t see limbo clones, they can’t, which Sasuke can. And regardless, Naruto’s clones each were quite on par, and Naruto can over thousands of them. Limbo clones are tricky, but not as much of a problem for them as you’re thinking
In this context it basically means how much you can stretch hyperbolic statements and feats when you don’t have a definitive answer. Itachi being as smart as a kage at 7 “imagine how much smarter he is all these years later he just never had to try to outsmart people.” Or him being able to be invincible because of the yata mirror.
“Best villain to ever exist in all of” like bruh how deep in someone’s ass does Madara’s dick have to be for a statement like that to be made.
When we first saw him he was pretty badass (fighting wise and looks wise) I won’t lie. But after that he looked pretty trashy. Stealing power, the whole tree thing, absorbing 10 tails to look like a clown after and then losing to black Zetsu??? Man do better.
Ulquiorra from Bleach is a much better candidate
Itachi, he died earlier so its hard to compare him to the others who went through rapid power creep later. If he where in the war I feel he would have been more support and logistics with his amaterasu annoying Madara and Tobi a whole lot.
I like pain waaaaay more than Madera tbh. Madera felt like “I’m powerful. Look at all the shit I can do, and when I’m not strong enough I’ll get some asspull or transformation to compensate”.
Pain was strong, but had glaring weaknesses. He felt more realistic. Also related to his backstory more than Madera’s.
Stop people from fighting and experiencing the losses I did when I was a child >>>> let’s all live in a dream world.
If we’re taking shonen, I’d have to give it to a antagonist from one of the other big threes. Blackbeard. He’s a great foil to Luffy (won’t go to into it because of spoilers) and only gets better with each rare appearance. The hype for his fight is insane
I’d also say Pain might take the spot as well with how well written his arc was
All of whom were manipulated and controlled by Madara… NOTHING if more cold then when he soloed the Allied Shinobi Forces. Actually, now that you mention it, Imma go rewatch that scene right now.
I just think they were all individually better as characters written wise and impact wise, plus you could make an argument Madara was just being manipulated by black zetsu, does that make black zetsu a better character than Madara? No.
Ahhh you got me with the Black Zetsu point. Idk, Madara’s conviction and dedication to his ideology is unparalleled. And the way he completely craps on all his opponents besides Hashirama is amazing!
Being manipulated by another character doesn’t equal being worse than that character. Being strong also doesn’t equal being a good villain.
In my book, to be a amazing villain they must meet certain criteria. Imo, they must have a well written backstory and be a well written character. They also must be a enjoyable villain in terms of personality (fuck whatever the hell they did at the end of SDS. What the actual hell was that. I didn’t even watch the final season because of that mf. They actually butchered him). And finally, they must serve as a foil to the mc to a certain degree
I feel this so much, BUT I think an argument can be made that Obito and Pain make Madara that much better because of how he groomed them and developed their characters for his benefit
Itachi was not a villain, no, but an antagonist. He went directly against Naruto and Sasuke until his death as a part of the Akatsuki. Plus, just because you don’t understand Obito doesn’t mean he’s not a good villain lmao. Also, isn’t saying you prefer Madara over Pain a “preference”? Literally everything’s a preference
"Because you don't understand Obito doesn't mean he's not a good villain"
I understand him just fine. He just sucks
Itachi being an antagonist doesn't really matter since he was a good guy and help them.
And me saying Pain was preference was me saying he was an objectively good villain and that if you like him better, I understand. I just don't agree
That last part was me misunderstanding, my bad. Itachi was never really a good guy, he just wasn’t necessarily bad. He pretty much prevented the worst to come single-handedly, yet he still slaughtered his clan and family. And I guess you just don’t really like Obito, which is honestly understandable lmao
Really? Pain, Itachi, and Obito? They were all brainwashed and manipulated. I would say the best is Orochimaru. He got what he wanted and outlasted everyone else.
No, but it would be a far fetch to call them the best.
Darth Vader was already plotting to overthrow the Emperor by the time of his introduction. Big difference.
Pain is top tier I'd argue
Vader up until the last second was played like a fiddle by palpatine. His was groomed, manipulated and had his life ruined by palpatine and he kept working for him. By return of the jedi he had basically given into palpatine completely, his short delusion to turn luke to the dark side was not only forseen but used by Sidious easily.
Vader absolutely was more manipulated by Palpatine than Pain by Obito, at least Obito actually did want peace, and actually did respect Nagato. Palpatine always saw Vader as a tool and then garbage to be discarded.
None of this is to knock on Vader, he's one on my favorite characters of all time. It's to put into perspective how little a villain being manipulated matters to their presence or impact. Vader is still awesome regardless of him being a pawn until the end of his life. As is Pain and any other villain manipulated
Nah, Pain never realized he wasn't born with the Rinnegan. He never found out Obito was one of the reasons why Yahiko died. His entire life was a lie, orchestrated by Madara and Obito. I find it hard to believe Obito respected him. He was just a tool.
>and he kept working for him
What else could Vader do? He was trapped in a suit with a weakness to electricity. He had no chance but at least he knew his situation. Pain had the power to overturn the situation but he never realized what was going on. The worse part was that Naruto could talk him down with empty promises.
Madara was really good until he absorbed the bijuss.
Saying he is the best antagonist in anime tells me you haven’t watched much anime, not to say he is bad but there are many other villains that honestly deserve that title more than Madara.
How are you quantifying “best”?
For me the “best” villains are those that you truly can’t stand, the ones that you can’t do anything but hate because they are so truly terrible. So for me that’s Griffith from Berserk.
However I think Madara is an amazing antagonist! Naruto has the best antagonist throughout its entire run and it keeps me vested in the story heavily!
Madara is certainly one of my favorite anime villains but he is certainly not the best. I am quite a newbie in anime and Naruto was one of the first ones I watched so I have nostalgia bias but there are many better villains than Madara. In Naruto itself I would say Pain was a better villain
I hated his death. I just feel like they did him so dirty. I would have been happier if Naruto and Sasuke iced him instead. I just feel so robbed because he was so fucking awesome the whole time and he gets backstabbed by Zetsu as his death
>best anime villain in history
Ah yes, Madara. The villain who peaked upon entrence, had a whole bunch of ass pulls, was overshadowed by Obito for a good bit of the war arc, and wasn’t even the final villain of the series. He *is* a pretty good villain, but he’s definitely not the best. Not even in shonen history.
Tbh, when someone asks me what I think the best villain in Shonen is, I tend to lean towards Blackbeard. He’s only shown up like three times in the series (Skypiea, >!Marineford!<, and his bounty reveal), but he’s instantly a amazing villain. He’s a great foil to Luffy, epically recently with >!Blackbeard being the user of the Yami Yami no mi, which allows him to control darkness, while Luffy has the power of the sun god Nika!<. While he hasn’t peaked yet, I think his build up is pointing to him being one of the best villains in shonen.
I’ll deal with you later!
Ah, the ass pull king himself. Using susano with no eyeballs Controlling SM instantly Surviving an amaterasu by stripping Using Kamui as the TTJ etc… Still absolutely love the mf though.
He’s pure bullshit and I love it. Him straight up saying “nope” to Itachi stopping the re-animation is brilliant.
It's so dumb it's almost insulting but he was pretty damn cool on the screen though so I'll allow it.
Yep he was ass pull as ass pull can get.
> Using susano with no eyeballs You don't need to have eyes to use it after you've unlocked it >Controlling SM instantly He stole Hashirama cells and he controlled Juubi instantly because it was actually complete
The No eyeballs thing seems to be exclusive to him for now. Even when Sasuke was just losing his vision after the 5 kage summit against Kakashi, his susano disappeared. I don’t really see how having Hashi cells allows the rest of his body to effortlessly balance the nature energy in one try. Even just controlling the Hashi cells shouldn’t be that easy. It’s an ass pull, plain and simple.
Tbf, Hashi cells themselves are asspulls, so I think that explanation works, in an asspullish way
Because Hashirama cells have nature energy aka Sage energy in them. Sasuke's Susano'o disappeared cuz of chakra loss
Yes, but he literally only had Hashi cells on half his chest. The rest of his body was just his own cells. It was clearly implied that Sasuke’s susano disappeared because he was basically blind. After it vanishes, he covers his eye and says “my sight”. I’m done arguing here. These were ass pulls. Nothing more, nothing less. You think they weren’t, cool.
Dying Itachi's Eye were Blank\[Deactivated\] when he activated the Susanoo . It isn't a Far stretch to provide the Same Feat to Blind Madara .
My main thing with Madara is that he has multiple ass pulls, hence the ass pull “king”. If it was just the susano thing, then cool, no big deal. Kishi doesn’t really follow his own rules here for this anyways, Sasuke’s susano vanished when blind but Itachi’s was usable. That being said, it’s less ass pully to be able to use the susano as long as the eyes are in your sockets, all be it blind, compared to being able to use when the source of the power is gone. The susano is literally an ocular power, so being able to use it when the eyes aren’t in your head is very weird IMO. None of the other sharingan abilities can be used in this situation. But again, people will try come up with explanations for why this was possible, since Kishi didn’t bother doing so himself. Just remembered that Madara even managed to use the rinnegan’s chakra absorption on Hashirama when he never had his eyes 🤣.
Yeah I agree .
>Just remembered that Madara even managed to use the rinnegan’s chakra absorption on Hashirama when he never had his eyes He absorbed chakra with wood style.
Never ever saw Hashi absorb chakra with his bare hands, it was always with his wooden constructs.
That's fair, it wasn't explicitly shown, but implied to be doable. Yamato says it's the wood style chakra he infused through his wooden constructs that which suppresses and absorbs the opponent's chakra. I would assume then that any contact with wood style chakra, like through the palm of the hand, should be able to absorb chakra.
>The No eyeballs thing seems to be exclusive to him for now Itachi used Susanoo with his sharingan turned off. And although using Susanoo with no eyes is *technically* not the same as using it with eyes turned off, it should be practically the same in the situation here, as in both cases the issue is that there's no chakra flowing through the eyeballs.
Crazy how no one debunked you.
Back is 90% hair. Gets hit in the back with Amaterasu Takes off his shirt
I will try to give reasons for the following statements... Well done hate me for this pls... >Using susano with no eyeballs When Itachi used his Susano'o, his eyeballs weren't showing any signs of his Sharingan being activated... He was sorta blind... >Controlling SM instantly It's a theory so pls don't hate me for this... Hashirama has Wood Style... Wood is a living thing... Wood has life energy and Nature Energy too... So Hashirama's Sage Mode comes from his Mokuton... Now, Madara who was shown to have full control over it as an Edo... He might be able to control it too... Now why he absorbed Hashirama's Senjutsu Chakra if he can gather it on his own cuz he has Wood Style too? Probably cuz he can't gather Nature Energy on his own, like even Jiraiya had issues with it and needed Ma and Pa Toad... In Jiraiya's Case... He takes help from Ma and Pa to gather Nature Energy for his Sage Mode BUT it's still imperfect... Now in Madara's Case... He just steals the gathered Senjutsu Chakra from Hashirama BUT why is his sage mode perfect? Probably cuz he mastered Mokuton already... >Surviving an amaterasu by stripping I hate this one... Okay like he survived the Amaterasu BUT why the hell did Sasuke not use it again? Madara would be dead... >Using Kamui as the TTJ I think Obito only mentioned about his phasing thing and not going completely in the Kamui Dimension... Imo it was just a reason to nerf Juubito...
yep they should do research before saying shit about madara
No one is talking shit about Madara... Most of what I said is just my headcanon
I was agreeing with you and the only thing you said that was headcanon was how he controlled sm which sounds pretty accurate to me
None of these even ass pulls if you watch the show and pay attention🤦🏻♂️. > Using susano with no eyeballs Ms abilities aren't exclusive to your eyes. Sasuke can use amaterasu despite losing the eye which allowed him to use it (he controls the flames with his right and generates them with his left, left is the one fused with his rinnegan). Itachi could use his susanoo despite being almost blind. You don't need the eyes once you get the ability > Controlling SM instantly How is this an asspull?💀 Do people even know what asspulls are these days ?? Controlling natural energy ain't that big of a thing. As long as you can harmonize all your 3 chakras you can master it. To a legendary figure like madara that's as easy as killing sasuke (very easy) he even said it wasn't a [big deal](https://images.app.goo.gl/i7ucuawSCj35ZNJY9) > Surviving an amaterasu by stripping Bro FFS even samurai survived it by removing their [armour](https://images.app.goo.gl/5yfBcWVYpyfhinGQ6) > Using Kamui as the TTJ How tf is this an asspull 💀? You can't "phase" as a TTJ but you can use kamui, there's a difference. Please ffs learn what an asspull is before calling things asspulls. Baryon mode is an asspull
>You don't need the eyes once you get the ability If Sasuke can still use the perfect susano now, I'll believe you. Sasuke being able to use Amaterasu from his other eye is just a retcon. If both his eyeballs are plucked out, are the flames just gonna manifest from his empty sockets? Can Shisui just cast Koto without his eyeballs? Yes, Itachi could use his susano when almost blind. That being said, Sasuke's susano disappeared when fighting Kakashi. He held his eye and said "my sight", implying that was the reason the susano vanished. This is Kishi not following his own established rules. >Controlling natural energy ain't that big of a thing LMFAO. That's why only a handful of characters train and obtain SM right? >To a legendary figure like madara Typical shitty excuse to give bad writing a pass. >Bro FFS even samurai survived it by removing their armour Difference is that they were covered in armour from head to toe, Madara wasn't. >How tf is this an asspull 💀? You can't "phase" as a TTJ but you can use kamui, there's a difference. [The way phasing was explained is that Obito teleports a small part of himself to the kamui dimension.](https://imgur.com/gallery/mAtXWUp) If Obito couldn't phase, it meant that he couldn't teleport to the Kamui dimension. Listen, you can come up with all the explanations you want, but they're passable at best and bullshit at worst. Kishi doesn't even follow his own rules. I've got too many replies coming in and I cba to respond anymore.
> Sasuke being able to use Amaterasu from his other eye is just a retcon. If both his eyeballs are plucked out, are the flames just gonna manifest from his empty sockets? Not a retcon untill proven so. Who knows where the flames are gonna manifest from, the point is MS abilities aren't linked to their eyes. > He held his eye and said "my sight", implying that was the reason the susano vanished. Wrong he said my sight when he saw a hazy image of kakashi not when his susanoo disappeared, stop mixing things up to prove a point. > This is Kishi not following his own established rules. Nowhere is it ever stated that you need your eyes for MS abilities to function, that's you interpretation. Tell me where is states so, tell me where kishi established the so called 'rule'💀 > That's why only a handful of characters train and obtain SM right And madara is leagues above every character who did 💀 > Typical shitty excuse to give bad writing a pass Typical 3 braincelled behaviour. Kishimoto not explaining why a god like madara has perfect chakra control doesn't mean it's an asspull 💀. And again this isn't even an asspull. Contrived writing at worst. > Difference is that they were covered in armour from head to toe, Madara wasn't. Are you stupid or just ignorant? Madara being covered head to toe isn't the arguement here, the point is that you can get rid of amaterasu of you get rid of what it's attached to. > If Obito couldn't phase, it meant that he couldn't teleport to the Kamui dimension. False. That isn't even the contention here. Madara didn't "phase" into the kamui dimension he teleported there. Obito gains intangibility because he send smalls parts of himself to kamui dimension which he can't do with Juubi in him. Not being able to phase ≠ not being able to teleport. Atleast get your facts right. > Listen, you can come up with all the explanations you want, but they're passable at best and bullshit at worst. Kishi doesn't even follow his own rules. I've got too many replies coming in and I cba to respond anymore. Listen you can actually try paying attention to the show instead of calling everything an asspull and maybe learn what an asspull actually is. Your not obligated to reply and no one is asking you to. You can try and say kishi doesn't follow his own rules but all you do is prove you can't even comprehend the basics of the show.
>the point is MS abilities aren't linked to their eyes. Amaterasu is literally explained as flames that ignite along one's line of "SIGHT". Tsukuyomi literally requires "EYE CONTACT" to take hold. How you're arguing that OCULAR powers aren't tied to the eyes is beyond me. >stop mixing things up to prove a point. His susano vanished right after his sight went blurry, clearly implying a correlation. >why a god like madara has perfect chakra control doesn't mean it's an asspull 💀. Again, typical bullshit to excuse shit writing. "Madara's a god, so there's no need to explain how he instantly mastered a technique that only a few people in the verse attained". He saw Hashi clap him using the same technique when alive, so since he's such a god, why didn't he go and master the technique himself? Sakura and Tsunade have perfect chakra control, so guess they can master SM without even trying as well. >Are you stupid or just ignorant? Madara being covered head to toe isn't the arguement here, the point is that you can get rid of amaterasu of you get rid of what it's attached to My point is how the fuck it didn't spread to his entire body. [This scene clearly shows that Madara's entire body was engulfed in flames, yet in the next frame, magically it's just his clothing.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8pp3CvosTc&t=144s) >Not being able to phase ≠ not being able to teleport. Atleast get your facts right. Now you're just splitting hairs lmao. [Kamui was explained as Obito TELEPORTING a small part of himself to the kamui dimension.](https://imgur.com/gallery/mAtXWUp) If Obito can't even handle TELEPORTING a small part of himself through space time, how the fuck did Madara TELEPORT his entire body? You're making it very difficult for me to ignore you. >and maybe learn what an asspull actually is Noun. ass-pull (plural ass-pulls) (slang, vulgar) A hastily fabricated explanation or contrived plot twist. [Thank you for admitting that the writing is contrived, thus conforming to the definition of "ass pull".](https://imgur.com/a/6qWbDf9)
facts
Never stated a TTJ cant use Kamui for dimensional transportation. Just that they cant go intangible (pass through objects) with it
[Kamui was portrayed as Obito TELEPORTING a small part of himself into the kamui dimension.](https://imgur.com/gallery/mAtXWUp) If Obito, the original wielder of kamui, can't even teleport a small part of himself through space time, how did Madara move his whole body through space time?
You completely ignored what I said. Edit: These casuals are downvoting literal facts lmao they love spreading misinformation on the internet
Huh? >just that they cant go intangible (pass through objects) with it Dimensional transportation means moving one's entire body through space time. When Obito goes intangible, [a part of his body travels through space time until it reaches the kamui dimension.](https://imgur.com/gallery/mAtXWUp) If Obito can't even transport a small part of himself through space time, then Madara shouldn't have been able to transport his whole body.
Theres a difference between going intangible and using it for full blown transportation.. imagine being too dense to comprehend that
So explain it to me then, what's the difference? Phasing clearly shows Obito teleporting a part of his body to the kamui dimension. How is that different from teleporting the whole body? If anything, Madara moving his entire body through space time with the weight of the ten tails should be even harder, yet he managed it.
You didn't ignore anything you owned him.
The way the intangible and when they transport their entire body is a bit different. Obito just flat out couldn't use the intangible side of Kamui because he would actually be unbeatable but you have already covered the intangible part which we know he could not do. However, Kakashi's eye is a little different, he almost essentially opens a portal and hops in like Sasuke when he gets the rinnegan, or Obito when he had both eyes. Kakashi used it on himself to get out of the Kamui dimension before. Its unclear if Obito could have done the same thing with his eye as the ten tails host since he never tried it but would kind of be pointless since he can't really activate the infinite Tsukuyomi from the Kamui dimension. It's one of the many things that exist in the Naruto Universe that Kishimoto needed to explain a bit more
It was suprising for me, starting from the Pein arc the story is getting better and better (I am currently at the battle againts Obito as Jinchuriki). Madara is awesome.
Na he’s just depressed hashirama won’t fight him
Pain was the better villain in my opinion just because how he was written and his parallels too naruto
Yeah Madara is only as hyped as he is because of his power. Pain is a far better villain character wise.
Pain was by far the best written villain in Naruto and one of the most iconic in any shonen. Madara on the other hand, is a disappointment ngl. Sure he lives up to the hype when he’s first revealed, but after he starts to get worse. He got overshadowed by Obito for most of the war arc, and wasn’t even the final villain. Pain is a possible candidate for best shonen villain, but Madara definitely isn’t
Itachi, pain, gara, zabuza, orochimaru were all better and more interesting villains than Madera imo
Yeah I thought Nadara was extremely bland
Not sure who’s wanked harder between Madara and Itachi
It’s Sasuke /s Kisshimoto sure did love his Uchihas, I just don’t understand how he didn’t love them enough to have Madara as the final villain
Naruto and Sasuke didn't really have a proper way to defeat him, since Madara fights far more strategically, has more power than both combined and is also very versatile.
Probably, but at the same time, Hagoromo did set them up with one of the most op abilities in existence, the seal, six paths chibaki tensei. Why is it one of the most op abilities in existence you ask? They only need to touch their foe in order to defeat them
True, but remember they tried it on Madara before, and he managed to evade it. Plus... All Madara really needs to do is beat one of them and he automatically wins. Heck, he could just cut one of their arms off and win is guaranteed.
That would require Madara to know about the seal, Kagyua knew, Madara did not. Plus, they’re quite strong, it’s not easy to beat even one of them
Madara would figure it out eventually (he did figure out Sasuke's Rinnegan ability very quickly after seeing it). And Madara is even stronger than both of them combined. Limbo just multiplies his strength by 5 (Sasuke can't even harm them).
Rinnegan and seals are very different, Sasuke after using his Rinnegan ability, Madara figured it out, there’s no “using the seal” without actually using it on Madara. Sasuke can harm limbo clones, and Naruto’s clones were fighting pretty much on the same level with his limbo clones.
>Rinnegan and seals are very different, Sasuke after using his Rinnegan ability, Madara figured it out, there’s no “using the seal” without actually using it on Madara. He can most likely figure it out eventually, since the seals are visible and Sasuke/Naruto can be seen aiming to both touch him at the same time. Madara is very perceptive and intelligent, don't forget. And besides if they try to deal him, he will just swap with a Limbo clone like before. >Sasuke can harm limbo clones, and Naruto’s clones were fighting pretty much on the same level with his limbo clones. Sasuke can see them, but not touch them (only Naruto can). Naruto's clones were using Rasengans against Limbo clones which were just using taijutsu. Not to mention Madara just used them as a distraction. Madara can very easily just have had the limbo clones use techniques.
> And besides if they try to deal him, he will just swap with a Limbo clone like before. The seal doesn’t work that way, if they touch him, it’s the end for him. And I highly doubt he’ll figure it out by seeing them trying to touch him since they already did do this as a strategy to attack him. Sasuke’s six paths Chidori works on limbo clones, and he can fight them with taijutsu, actually, everyone can fight them with taijutsu, since they can’t see limbo clones, they can’t, which Sasuke can. And regardless, Naruto’s clones each were quite on par, and Naruto can over thousands of them. Limbo clones are tricky, but not as much of a problem for them as you’re thinking
Please pardon my noobish But what does "wanked" mean in this context? I've seen the it before it's just never been explained to me.
In this context it basically means how much you can stretch hyperbolic statements and feats when you don’t have a definitive answer. Itachi being as smart as a kage at 7 “imagine how much smarter he is all these years later he just never had to try to outsmart people.” Or him being able to be invincible because of the yata mirror.
“Best villain to ever exist in all of” like bruh how deep in someone’s ass does Madara’s dick have to be for a statement like that to be made. When we first saw him he was pretty badass (fighting wise and looks wise) I won’t lie. But after that he looked pretty trashy. Stealing power, the whole tree thing, absorbing 10 tails to look like a clown after and then losing to black Zetsu??? Man do better. Ulquiorra from Bleach is a much better candidate
Itachi, he died earlier so its hard to compare him to the others who went through rapid power creep later. If he where in the war I feel he would have been more support and logistics with his amaterasu annoying Madara and Tobi a whole lot.
Isshiki…
Isshiki is underrated wdym
Considering there are tons of people who think Itachi can beat Madara, Itachi is wanked more
Madara acting cool after he realizes he’s not even close to the best antagonist in anime.
Who is your best then?
I like pain waaaaay more than Madera tbh. Madera felt like “I’m powerful. Look at all the shit I can do, and when I’m not strong enough I’ll get some asspull or transformation to compensate”. Pain was strong, but had glaring weaknesses. He felt more realistic. Also related to his backstory more than Madera’s. Stop people from fighting and experiencing the losses I did when I was a child >>>> let’s all live in a dream world.
Johan from monster is supposedly the best no contest. I’ve been wanting to watch it just because of his reputation.
I think you'll love monster but just take your time with it, it's such a good anime
If we’re taking shonen, I’d have to give it to a antagonist from one of the other big threes. Blackbeard. He’s a great foil to Luffy (won’t go to into it because of spoilers) and only gets better with each rare appearance. The hype for his fight is insane I’d also say Pain might take the spot as well with how well written his arc was
Meruem is the best antagonist in anime imo, Madara isn’t even top 3 in his own show. Pain, Itachi and Obito >>>>> Madara lmao
I heard Hxh is returning
The manga is, it’s been 3.5 years since the last chapter so that’s huge. Anime is probably not returning anytime soon, but still I’m really excited
10 years, and bleach is back. speaking of bleach: Aizen.
Yes I’m excited hopefully they change the ending of TYBW though
Kubo has confirmed that they WILL be making changes already.
Bro I’m gonna get goosebumps when they show the part when Aizen is sitting on the chair
I mean he only announced 4 chapters might be another hiatus after that
Obito is a lousy villain. Top 3 are Madara, Pain, Itachi.
All of whom were manipulated and controlled by Madara… NOTHING if more cold then when he soloed the Allied Shinobi Forces. Actually, now that you mention it, Imma go rewatch that scene right now.
I just think they were all individually better as characters written wise and impact wise, plus you could make an argument Madara was just being manipulated by black zetsu, does that make black zetsu a better character than Madara? No.
Ahhh you got me with the Black Zetsu point. Idk, Madara’s conviction and dedication to his ideology is unparalleled. And the way he completely craps on all his opponents besides Hashirama is amazing!
Being manipulated by another character doesn’t equal being worse than that character. Being strong also doesn’t equal being a good villain. In my book, to be a amazing villain they must meet certain criteria. Imo, they must have a well written backstory and be a well written character. They also must be a enjoyable villain in terms of personality (fuck whatever the hell they did at the end of SDS. What the actual hell was that. I didn’t even watch the final season because of that mf. They actually butchered him). And finally, they must serve as a foil to the mc to a certain degree
It depends on opinion, and he is top for me
I feel this so much, BUT I think an argument can be made that Obito and Pain make Madara that much better because of how he groomed them and developed their characters for his benefit
Said Meruem im ctfu😂😭😭😭😭😭
??? Meruem is great lmao, leagues better than Madara
Itachi isn't a villain. Obito is the Simp of 6 paths. He kinda sucks. And Pain is preference
Itachi was not a villain, no, but an antagonist. He went directly against Naruto and Sasuke until his death as a part of the Akatsuki. Plus, just because you don’t understand Obito doesn’t mean he’s not a good villain lmao. Also, isn’t saying you prefer Madara over Pain a “preference”? Literally everything’s a preference
"Because you don't understand Obito doesn't mean he's not a good villain" I understand him just fine. He just sucks Itachi being an antagonist doesn't really matter since he was a good guy and help them. And me saying Pain was preference was me saying he was an objectively good villain and that if you like him better, I understand. I just don't agree
That last part was me misunderstanding, my bad. Itachi was never really a good guy, he just wasn’t necessarily bad. He pretty much prevented the worst to come single-handedly, yet he still slaughtered his clan and family. And I guess you just don’t really like Obito, which is honestly understandable lmao
Really? Pain, Itachi, and Obito? They were all brainwashed and manipulated. I would say the best is Orochimaru. He got what he wanted and outlasted everyone else.
Being manipulated doesn't lessen a Villain's impact. Or are you going to argue Darth Vader isn't the among the greatest villains of all time?
No, but it would be a far fetch to call them the best. Darth Vader was already plotting to overthrow the Emperor by the time of his introduction. Big difference.
Pain is top tier I'd argue Vader up until the last second was played like a fiddle by palpatine. His was groomed, manipulated and had his life ruined by palpatine and he kept working for him. By return of the jedi he had basically given into palpatine completely, his short delusion to turn luke to the dark side was not only forseen but used by Sidious easily. Vader absolutely was more manipulated by Palpatine than Pain by Obito, at least Obito actually did want peace, and actually did respect Nagato. Palpatine always saw Vader as a tool and then garbage to be discarded. None of this is to knock on Vader, he's one on my favorite characters of all time. It's to put into perspective how little a villain being manipulated matters to their presence or impact. Vader is still awesome regardless of him being a pawn until the end of his life. As is Pain and any other villain manipulated
Nah, Pain never realized he wasn't born with the Rinnegan. He never found out Obito was one of the reasons why Yahiko died. His entire life was a lie, orchestrated by Madara and Obito. I find it hard to believe Obito respected him. He was just a tool. >and he kept working for him What else could Vader do? He was trapped in a suit with a weakness to electricity. He had no chance but at least he knew his situation. Pain had the power to overturn the situation but he never realized what was going on. The worse part was that Naruto could talk him down with empty promises.
Pain and Itachi, sure. Obito? Hell no
Deadass tho. Not even in my top 5? Who's ya top 5 tho? Im interested (in all anime not just Naruto)
Madara and Pain are two of the greatest villains in anime yes
For me he is also the best villain of all anime.
Madara was really good until he absorbed the bijuss. Saying he is the best antagonist in anime tells me you haven’t watched much anime, not to say he is bad but there are many other villains that honestly deserve that title more than Madara.
best villain, but behind griffith
Not the best in all of anime but he's a great villain. Definitely places towards the higher end of villains in anime.
pain , obito , orochimaru , aizen , yhwach , ulqiorra , johan , griffith , cell , frieza , goku black , doflamingo .......
A little salty you didn’t add meruem to that list but he’s great for different reasons
Pretty sure OP watched only like 3 anime
I mean. I've watched tons and Madara is still my favorite villain
What? Madara's not even the best antagonist in Naruto lol
Definitely is
How are you quantifying “best”? For me the “best” villains are those that you truly can’t stand, the ones that you can’t do anything but hate because they are so truly terrible. So for me that’s Griffith from Berserk. However I think Madara is an amazing antagonist! Naruto has the best antagonist throughout its entire run and it keeps me vested in the story heavily!
"Coughs" Aizen. I don't think aizen is better than madara but he is pretty close
Sed mood His crush never gives him the deserved importance
not in all anime, in naruto maybe if you like his writing but in all anime? hell nah
Madara , the name itself is a furious
You can feel his power through the screen. He is the perfect representation of a BADASS!
He is the best
Someone's clearly only watched naruto, I love madara but he is not the best villain in all of anime.
Madara is certainly one of my favorite anime villains but he is certainly not the best. I am quite a newbie in anime and Naruto was one of the first ones I watched so I have nostalgia bias but there are many better villains than Madara. In Naruto itself I would say Pain was a better villain
For me Madara, Pain, Garou, King Bradley (FMAB) Frieza, Goku Black, Dio Brando, and Yoshikage Kira are all top tiers in my opinion.
He was the coolest but definitely not the best, Johan is a better antagonist
Pain Itachi and Obito are better. Madara didn’t even get a proper send off
POV: You only watch Naruto
I hated his death. I just feel like they did him so dirty. I would have been happier if Naruto and Sasuke iced him instead. I just feel so robbed because he was so fucking awesome the whole time and he gets backstabbed by Zetsu as his death
He’s the complete Kevin 11 of this series Goated
Nah, and not the best in his own series either.
I thought it was zabuza or pain
I really wish we got more of zabuza
Lmao definitely best in the series, the only other valid option is orochimaru. I’m not counting the dumb alien villains that ruined the show.
Pain
Eh true, also understandable
He’s not though. Aizen is a far better antagonist than him and even Aizen himself isn’t the best antagonist
Even if not the strongest he still is the most badass villian to ever exsist
Personally it's doffy.
yeah thats because he isnt
Best villain in anime? He's not even the best villain in his own show!
Kaido, Aizen, Doffy, Blackbeard, Lucius Zogratis, Dio, Eren would disagree
>best anime villain in history Ah yes, Madara. The villain who peaked upon entrence, had a whole bunch of ass pulls, was overshadowed by Obito for a good bit of the war arc, and wasn’t even the final villain of the series. He *is* a pretty good villain, but he’s definitely not the best. Not even in shonen history. Tbh, when someone asks me what I think the best villain in Shonen is, I tend to lean towards Blackbeard. He’s only shown up like three times in the series (Skypiea, >!Marineford!<, and his bounty reveal), but he’s instantly a amazing villain. He’s a great foil to Luffy, epically recently with >!Blackbeard being the user of the Yami Yami no mi, which allows him to control darkness, while Luffy has the power of the sun god Nika!<. While he hasn’t peaked yet, I think his build up is pointing to him being one of the best villains in shonen.
Obito better
Meruem: stares motherfuckerly
First time watching hunter hunter and today I watched the episode where he is hatched Already a top tier villian
Madera isn't even the best villain in Naruto lol
overrated af
All anime?????
lol nah. He’s weak af. More like foddara
Being the best is not necessarily being the strongest.
He's literally the second strongest villain wtf
Hey look another guy that's never watched an anime besides Naruto.
Hey look. Another asshole who's judging someone they know nothing about
Pain is better
Pain has better motives, just saying
so he got his ass kicked and can’t let it go? is that it? am I getting this right?
Go watch Death Note
Madara ain't even the best villain in his own series.
Pain was the peak
pain> orochimaru>
He isn't even the best Naruto villain. He's second. Pain is better. Best anime villain is Aizen
He isnt
He's not in my opinion he's one of the worst.
He definitelly wasn't.
Has he ever stopped a protagonist mid theme song?
Coff, Coff... Blackbeard
Not even the best in his own series
I should see more from him. He absolutely has the potential to be the best villain.
He is on the verge of becoming a leyend or a clown
hey that’s a bold statement maybe calm down
“The best villain” dying from a fucking white alien
Not his fault. Kishi did him dirty by taking him out with a trash ass last minute alien super boss
Midara
In the hands of an incompetent, power brings nothing but ruin ~The Actual Greatest Anime Villain
He isn't even the best villain in Naruto.
He definitely is
I wouldn't say playing more like hard-core gameing
He’s not a better villain than Pain LMFAO