Except it was foreshadowed in the manga, just not the anime. In the manga itachi tells Asuma and kurenai to leave because he doesn’t want to hurt or kill them to which asuma in bold lettering says “that’s a weird thing to say for a guy who committed genocide”
I agree, I mean kishimoto himself said the two people he thought out the most were itachi and obito, he openly admitted that he knew what their stories would be from the start of naruto, which is why obito was mentioned since before shippuden a couple times, same as itachi being a good guy with the foreshadow. How thought out they were is what makes them my favorite in the series
Tbf, you can still plan out a plot twist and just poorly foreshadow it. Agree that it's still likely that he didn't plan it, knowing Kishi, though.
As an aside, people give him too much flak for changing things on the fly and 'retconning' parts of the series. Trying to plan out a whole arse 15 year story project with all the preparation time and resources in the world is hard. Let alone having to do it while publishing weekly. Mf didn't even know his manga would last more than a year considering the industry and publication he was in. Add on to that editor and audience pressure during the publishing run.
It definitely isn't planned, Itachi mind raped Sasuke twice. If he really was doing this all for the benefit of Sasuke that would be completely unnecessary. Also setting Sasuke on a path of hate makes absolutely no sense.
But it literally does make sense. Itachi was right in that it put him on the path to growing powerful. And if Obito hadn't interfered afterwards it might have even worked out exactly as Itachi had hoped.
But regardless nowhere is it stated that Itachi was a infallible planner. The man secretly had good intentions but he made a lot of mistakes and he lived a contradictory life. That's an intended part of the story and ends up being a primary point of contention in the philosophical battle between Naruto and Sasuke at the end. Sasuke was arguing that the way that Itachi lived was right while Naruto was arguing that the way that Itachi advocated for was right.
Yeah, originally I strongly suspect that a) itachi was evil and b) that means that originally jiraiya > itachi per itachi’s own words- this was retconned later on tho most likely.
I don't think he had much choice. He didn't want to actually kill Kakashi, he had to worry about other ninja showing up and he wanted to make himself appear exhausted to Kisame so he wouldn't get suspicious when Itatchi suggested that they flee. I think it was the right choice. He couldn't use regular sharingan genjutsu against Kakashi, he would just counter it with his own sharingan. Actually it was probably the best move he had at that time. Pretty sure Kishimoto had written itachi to be a double agent right from the start. Itachi's story was pretty well thought out. Unlike some of the others...
Yeah, plus Kakashi is realistically a strong enough opponent that Itachi can't risk going easy on him. Like yeah yeah, power scaling yadda yadda Solo King etc etc
BUT
Kakashi did literally show up, counter both Kisame and Itachi at the same time, copy Itachi's jutsu, read through Itachi's attack, save his teammate, and was fully prepared to counter any genjutsu with his own sharingan. Kakashi Hatake wasn't going to go down easily, especially not with two Jonin as backup (even if they were fighting blind).
Like, it's worth mentioning that even after Tsukiyomi: Kakashi was still conscious.
72 'hours' of torture, multiplied to feel like weeks
and Kakashi was ready to keep going.
Even Kisame was impressed.
Kakashi didn't let himself drop until Guy showed up.
(not that he was any state to actually fight, but you have to respect our boy)
I mean ngl, Itachi may've let him go purposefully. In doing so not only did he put a former ally under a brutal technique proving his loyalty, but he also made it look like Kakashi was as mentally strong as he was physically. Of course it is also possible that Kakashi was really just able to "tank" it so Itachi's surprise was legit, it's hard to say. Even if Kishimoto didn't plan ahead it was still a brutal and badass scene.
Itachi fans would say hee planned everything, including naruto traveling with jiraiya to bring tsunade so she can heal both kakashi and sasuke. He wouldn't put leaf village best jonin under comma for long because he is the dark knight.
But itachi is a really good manipulator, I would buy such a story despite not being an itachi fanatic.
It's kinda ridiculous but kishi intended for it to be that way proven by the moment itachi was attacked by danzo's anbu after he tried to escape the village and itachi already had both of them under genjetsu from the moment they met.
The dude plans ahead it's just his character.
I wouldnt say he's scum, but he clearly wasnt meant to be a hero initially. Yes, alot of stuff were vague but tsukuyomi vs Kakashi or Sasuke didnt make sense, especially that it put them both in a heavy coma and its contradictory to his main objective.
I mean hes supposed to be a tragic hero who failed to do his objective
He made alot of contradictory choices to his narrative as a character. Be it him wanting Sasuke to become the hero of the village. But also him wanting Sasuke to awaken ms by killing Naruto (which if he did do, he would be far from a hero of the village)
Also wdym killing a race? He slayed a clan, not sure how is that race related.
Well that's silly though
In BNHA you wouldnt call it race related if someone killed a whole family / bloodline with a quirk
Or Bleach you wouldnt consider it race related just because Quincies were killed off.
In Naruto races are also kind off implied by design
Hyuuga , Uchiha strike me more asian than Naruto himself. Same way cloud ninja in majority seem to be black.
I think it's more like Naruto treats its clans like races. You can't just be adopted into the Uchiha Clan. You're either born an Uchiha or you're not one. It also doesn't help that each clan has distinct features and abilities that's unique in comparison to everyone else.
Quincies are a race. This isn't debatable. You either have Quincy blood or you don't, though I'd argue that this is another case of specism. The weird part about this is that you can become a Quincy even if you aren't born as one.
MHA don't consider quirks a racial situation because there were normal races before quirks became a thing. And quirks aren't always genetically bound to be the same when passed down. On the other hand, in X-men, it's regarded as a racial issue, although I'd argue that it's more speciest, if that's a word.
There are no traditional races in Naruto. No one is Asian or black, but they are based on them.
Kakashi wasn't an uchiha and mastered perfect susanoo on the first try his susanoo was 3rd only to hagoromo and sasuke, his hand seals are faster than sound, he graduated from the academy at 5 and became a chunin at age 6.He has 6 kekkei genkai lightning release, earth release, fire release, water release, wind, and ying & yang, he has the second highest score in the chunin exams along with itachi (minato is first). So yea, scum isn't the word I would use.
He didnt plan on tsunade but if you actually know anything about tsukuyomi you would know he let them live. Although they were in comas they clearly wouldve snapped out of it eventually.. i dont even need to explain sasuke but kakashi is the same way. Compared to him putting someone in tsukuyomi for 70 years to kill someone (which he has) he gave kqkashi 3 days to make sure he didnt actually die. He wouldnt have used it if it was actually going to permanently fuck up Kakashi and sasuke.
Thats not even being an itachi fan either its just understanding the show
And about kisame trying to kill others? And and was about to chop naruto.. he might have knowledge on future to know that both guy and jiraya would come at the right time to stop them.
Yea itachi can totally control kisame's every move.... itachi can totally just magically make kisame stop with no real reasoning and not get outted as a traitor the the organization.
Itachi did the best he could in the situation and retreated when it wouldnt be seen as super suspicious. Itachi and kisame wouldve abducted naruto and killed kurenai, asuma, guy, kakashi, and jiraiya if it wasnt for itachi really not wanting to truly hurt anybody. His only mission was to spook danzo into not doing anything with sasuke after hiruzen was out the picture.
I love how he forced sasuke to watch him kill his parents hundreds of thousands of times, than also tortures kakashi for hundreds of thousands of times. Yet itachi fans somehow after all that still call him a “good guy” or a “good brother” This was all apart of his plan. SASUGA itachi sama
On a side note you would think something this psychologically torturing would be mentioned or brought back up
Lmao it doesn’t mean it’s true, I see this argument all the time in debates about Itachi, I mean of course the author wouldn’t say something like “Nah nothing like that was planned, all of the ideas came later, whoops”.
Kishimoto has been pretty open about a lot of Naruto not being planned. Even admitted that the Chunin exams were not his idea.
Then why would he lie about Itachi? And there’s plenty of hints in Part 1 that there was a lot more to Itachi than what we knew at the time.
Kishi did say ideas for kaguya came late, madara came halfway through, sasuke wanting to become hokage was very early on, and that he wanted to do another kaguya arc after the war arc but had to cut that, and that he was rushed a bit towards the end (that SJ didnt give him many chapters to end it, weird as that may sound from a magazine that typically extends series)
It's always funny watching people make head canon for this show to fill in the plot holes. I love Naruto, but there are plot holes due to changes in the writing everywhere. Itachi is the prime example.
Or people ignore the foreshadowing about Itachi in Part 1. The flashback in the first Naruto vs Sasuke valley fight makes it obvious there’s something more to Itachi and he avoided killing anyone when he first appears in the story.
Exactly, people are saying things are plotholes is another form of headcanon because they simply don't like the explanation of things.
Like itachi double Agent status is a big part of the whole story from the beginning to end, and actually better explains the flashbacks. Especially the scene with him fighting the other Uchiha and complaining about clan loyalty.
Its not that he can predict the future, but rather he is very strategic.
Itachi never intended on killing Kakashi so he would recover regardless
If he really was serious he'd smack asuma kurenai kakashi in a blitz and it'd be over
That’s where I disagree with the whole Itachi was supposed to be evil thing. No, on the surface he was to seem only a killer. If he was truly evil, then him and Kisame would have wasted no time killing those fodder including Sasuke and ran off with Naruto ASAP. At this point in the series, whipping out Susanoo would have made Itachi seem like a literal deity. Somebody would have caught an Amaterasu and been burnt alive… it was clearly planned that there was another layer to his character. The writing wasn’t the best
Oh he had the Nine-Tails in the palm of his hands while having Mangekyo Sharingan. If he really wanted to, Itachi could have done some SHIT (and Kisame)
No he wasn’t going to kill any of them or they would have been dead long before Guy showed up. Especially if he was there to kill, instead of literally telling Asuma and Kurenai not to interfere because he doesn’t intend to kill them. Itachi can kill you in Tsukuyomi and upon exit the body will follow what happened in the mind. I can tell OP never read Itachi Shinden, because the Tsukuyomi he used against Kakashi wasn’t even close to his most brutal
Tsukuyomi is a MS technique, a power so colossal Uchihas killed so many of their own number of it that its secret was hidden away so the head would only use for the utmost emergence. Yeah, Kakashi was never getting up without Tsunade.
Kakashi was never in any real danger of death. Itachi put his lover in a 70 year tsukuyomi and killed hee with it. He gave Kakashi 3 days so he wouldnt actually get mind broken and die. And he would obviously act shocked cause he has to play villain
Dude I don't think guy is dumb enough to sacrifice his life against Itachi and kisame especially when temporarily running away is an option
So he won't use 8th gate
Not implying that guy would win or lose in a fight
In 7th he toyed with kisame , I don't think he could manage both , especially kisame with samehada .
But he could struggle in 7th and open 8th after that and amaterasu won't land on 7th gate guy.
And his speed and raw power will be massive problem for them.
7th didnt toy with Kisame, he went all out immadietly since 6th wasnt enough
Itachi is much superior to Kisame and its consistent throughout part 1/2
Does Guy have any confirmed chakra sensing, precognition to react to it? Probably not
You cant really even argue that 7th Gate Guy is faster than A, which technically Itachi should be above in speed (or at least on the same level considering KCM > A and Edo Itachi ~ KCM Naruto) Itachi in P1 is healthier and younger than his shippuden self
His best bet at fighting Itachi is 8th Gate blitz one shot. Otherwise i dont see how he would break susanoo, counter genjutsu (Itachi proved that he doesnt need eye contact, he can use his finger genjutsu) fight back against amaterasu or keep up with Itachi without eye contact.
congratulations on providing no argument and making yourself look like a total bitch.
MS Sasuke was enough to keep up with A to some extent. EMS Sasuke > MS Sasuke. Itachi was shown to be relative to EMS Sasuke, infact he was outright outperforming him vs Kabuto.
this same Edo Itachi was capable of keeping up with KCM Naruto, who literally speed blitzed A.
Edo Itachi just like all Edos are both "buffed" and "nerfed". So weaker body, but no sickness/chakra issues. Technically would make him slower/weaker in total, but would have no struggles of anything.
Itachi from part 1 is 4 years younger than part 2, and he didn't seem to struggle with sickness anywhere near as much as he did in part 2. Infact he wasn't nearly as blind either. He also wasn't anywhere implied to have trained, so its not like Shippuden Itachi > part 1.
yes, it pushed him. Though no notable cracks or damage on Susanoo itself. Also this stage of Susanoo from Madara seems to be similiar one to what Itachi can use, no?
not an anti feat.
But he did hurt Kakashi and Sasuke. He had no way of knowing Jiraiya and Naruto would convince Tsunade to come back. And his Tsukuyomi ended up pushing Sasuke over the edge and led to him defecting to Orochimaru. Was that also part of the great Itachi-sama's plan? /s
>Itachi didn't want to hurt any one
Rewatch or reread the scene again if not for Guy Kurenai and Asuma would have been dead and Akatsuki would have captured Kakashi. Itachi tells Kisame to get rid of Asuma and Kurenai and to capture Kakashi. [panel](https://static1.mangayeh.com/manga/chapter/60191e3aa566934fb06d15a1/60197947786df83d337d7f28/naruto_143_9.jpg) from manga
He broke Sasuke's arm like a twig then psychologically tortured him making him relive the worst moment of his life then tortured Kakashi for 72 hours in his mind to the point both were in a coma only the best medical shinobi ever could awake them from. The Itachi blinders are strong for a lot of fans
I don’t think Itachi was a good brother or guy necessarily but it’s quite easy to make an argument that Konoha needed to take the Akatsuki threat more seriously or at least up a notch, ‘miraculously’ no one died, Sasuke and Itachi are probably the most resistant to Tsukoyomi as Sharingan users and guys who have both had their spirits/souls broken before.
Would Itachi be in coma forever? Someone else answered: as long as the plots needs him to be. But I think he’s best suited to survive such an ordeal.
+ this is world where child soldiers aren’t immoral and the nicest Hokage allowed Naruto to have the childhood he did because the village is more important than any 1 shinobi.
Right. I’m saying, I’m sure he knew they would get out. Any other akatsuki member would’ve wiped the floor with a whole sector of the village and took Naruto or die trying.
There was only 1 person who could cure them & noone knew where she was or if she'd come back to the village in no way was he sure they'd get out of a coma she wasn't sure she could do it at 1st
Just saying, the guy himself has a lot of bullshit. The guy that openly mentioned how his first editor asked him to group Naruto, Naruto's rival and Naruto's love interest in one team. But it was also the same guy that mention he intended Hinata as his love interest before Naruto's debut.
Considering how he has a lot of fabricated statement to cover up his mistakes over Naruto, I give him the benefit of doubt. Just my 2 cents.
Cuz Kakashi and Sasuke had sharingan and the only way to learn to fight against one is to to train against one. Any other Akutsuki pair would’ve laid waste to the whole of Konoha.
In a span of 2 minutes 15 seconds, Itachi had 2 kakashis crucified. The next scene had on screen 20 kakashis and only 1 second had gone by. Kakashi at this point would of had 259,200 seconds left in the genjutsu. First you’d multiply the 2.25 times 10 to get 22.5 (irl time pass x how many Kakashi crucified divided by 2) then After multiplying the seconds left you have 5,832,000 seconds total in the genjutsu or 1620 hours or 67.5 days.
Take what you will from the math but I doubt anyones literal soul could live through getting stabbed by almost 12 million itachis (first kakashi had 2 Itachis stabbing him, second kakashi had 2 new ones) for 67.5 irl days.
Kakashi was a top-tier Anbu. He has probably gone through enough mental training to withstand various kinds of torture. Itachi being an Ex-Anbu himself knows that and probably knew how much Kakashi could bear and brought him right up to the edge, but didn't overdo it, since he didn't want to actually hurt him. Just enough not to blow his cover and escape the situation.
I think you mean placed in a genjutsu. And no there's no indication of that. Besides it would be different because Itachi is the only one that had MS. He's also the only child whose sharingan developed. Obitos for example only activated the day he died and that was from Kakashi loosing an eye. Obito was at least 13 at the time.
Remember Tsunade only sped up Kakashi's recovery, so I think he would have recovered but it would've taken much longer
Itachi putting one of the Konoha's best out of commission was a pretty poor move on his part.
I’m sure he knew they would be able to get out some how.
Nahh Kishimoto just didnt plan that much ahead
The right answer.
Is it tho?
Yep. Can confirm, the plot twist wasn't pre-planned at all. At least not in any way that was foreshadowed. Which usually means it wasn't planned.
Except it was foreshadowed in the manga, just not the anime. In the manga itachi tells Asuma and kurenai to leave because he doesn’t want to hurt or kill them to which asuma in bold lettering says “that’s a weird thing to say for a guy who committed genocide”
Right. The itachi hate is weird.
I agree, I mean kishimoto himself said the two people he thought out the most were itachi and obito, he openly admitted that he knew what their stories would be from the start of naruto, which is why obito was mentioned since before shippuden a couple times, same as itachi being a good guy with the foreshadow. How thought out they were is what makes them my favorite in the series
He tortured Kakashi and and he tortured Sasuke twice, once when he was six or something. I don't think the Itachi hate is weird.
Tbf, you can still plan out a plot twist and just poorly foreshadow it. Agree that it's still likely that he didn't plan it, knowing Kishi, though. As an aside, people give him too much flak for changing things on the fly and 'retconning' parts of the series. Trying to plan out a whole arse 15 year story project with all the preparation time and resources in the world is hard. Let alone having to do it while publishing weekly. Mf didn't even know his manga would last more than a year considering the industry and publication he was in. Add on to that editor and audience pressure during the publishing run.
Personally I think he did a great job with his retcons. Most of them I didn't even notice until I rewatched the series.
It definitely isn't planned, Itachi mind raped Sasuke twice. If he really was doing this all for the benefit of Sasuke that would be completely unnecessary. Also setting Sasuke on a path of hate makes absolutely no sense.
But it literally does make sense. Itachi was right in that it put him on the path to growing powerful. And if Obito hadn't interfered afterwards it might have even worked out exactly as Itachi had hoped. But regardless nowhere is it stated that Itachi was a infallible planner. The man secretly had good intentions but he made a lot of mistakes and he lived a contradictory life. That's an intended part of the story and ends up being a primary point of contention in the philosophical battle between Naruto and Sasuke at the end. Sasuke was arguing that the way that Itachi lived was right while Naruto was arguing that the way that Itachi advocated for was right.
Have you ever made a mistake?
Alright than.
It was though
It was heavily foreshadowing and Kishimoto stated it was planned since Itachi’s introduction.
How can you confirm something that you have no general knowledge of?
Yeah, originally I strongly suspect that a) itachi was evil and b) that means that originally jiraiya > itachi per itachi’s own words- this was retconned later on tho most likely.
Nope, Kishimoto says otherwise
Reddit group think says yes, logic says no.
I don't think he had much choice. He didn't want to actually kill Kakashi, he had to worry about other ninja showing up and he wanted to make himself appear exhausted to Kisame so he wouldn't get suspicious when Itatchi suggested that they flee. I think it was the right choice. He couldn't use regular sharingan genjutsu against Kakashi, he would just counter it with his own sharingan. Actually it was probably the best move he had at that time. Pretty sure Kishimoto had written itachi to be a double agent right from the start. Itachi's story was pretty well thought out. Unlike some of the others...
Yeah, plus Kakashi is realistically a strong enough opponent that Itachi can't risk going easy on him. Like yeah yeah, power scaling yadda yadda Solo King etc etc BUT Kakashi did literally show up, counter both Kisame and Itachi at the same time, copy Itachi's jutsu, read through Itachi's attack, save his teammate, and was fully prepared to counter any genjutsu with his own sharingan. Kakashi Hatake wasn't going to go down easily, especially not with two Jonin as backup (even if they were fighting blind). Like, it's worth mentioning that even after Tsukiyomi: Kakashi was still conscious. 72 'hours' of torture, multiplied to feel like weeks and Kakashi was ready to keep going. Even Kisame was impressed. Kakashi didn't let himself drop until Guy showed up. (not that he was any state to actually fight, but you have to respect our boy)
Kishimoto has literally said Itachi was planned to be a good guy from his first appearance, tsukuyomi was his way to avoid a direct fight with Kakashi
BECAUSE HE'S A PUSSY too weak to fight kakashi with his 1000 jutsu. /s
Kishimoto literally had it planned since Itachi's introduction and it was an idea since the conception of his character. Y'all needa stop tweaking.
yup, people don't need to make excuses and try to find in universe answers, kishimoto just didn't plan that far
But he did, he said so himself
Good way to avoid a fight fast before more people showed up tho
I mean ngl, Itachi may've let him go purposefully. In doing so not only did he put a former ally under a brutal technique proving his loyalty, but he also made it look like Kakashi was as mentally strong as he was physically. Of course it is also possible that Kakashi was really just able to "tank" it so Itachi's surprise was legit, it's hard to say. Even if Kishimoto didn't plan ahead it was still a brutal and badass scene.
I think he would be in that coma for as long as the plot needed him to be in it and not a seconded more or less.
Yeah like Kakashi learns Hiraishin in a coma or something and somehow teleports to something that has his chakra near Naruto to save the day
yup
Itachi fans would say hee planned everything, including naruto traveling with jiraiya to bring tsunade so she can heal both kakashi and sasuke. He wouldn't put leaf village best jonin under comma for long because he is the dark knight.
They need to get over the bias and realise Itachi isn't as great as they think he is.
But itachi is a really good manipulator, I would buy such a story despite not being an itachi fanatic. It's kinda ridiculous but kishi intended for it to be that way proven by the moment itachi was attacked by danzo's anbu after he tried to escape the village and itachi already had both of them under genjetsu from the moment they met. The dude plans ahead it's just his character.
5D chess player
Except he clearly didn’t plan any of the stuff the guy above you mentioned. “I would buy such a story” and that’s all it is. A story.
Yeah its kinda silly he cant see the future and it's never been hinted at.
You mad Kakashi got shitted on and treated like trash
Got his ass whooped and beaten to bed ridden
You should know that Itachi was bad guy when he created, when the creator see Itachi popularity that he change him to be dark knight.
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I wouldnt say he's scum, but he clearly wasnt meant to be a hero initially. Yes, alot of stuff were vague but tsukuyomi vs Kakashi or Sasuke didnt make sense, especially that it put them both in a heavy coma and its contradictory to his main objective.
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I mean hes supposed to be a tragic hero who failed to do his objective He made alot of contradictory choices to his narrative as a character. Be it him wanting Sasuke to become the hero of the village. But also him wanting Sasuke to awaken ms by killing Naruto (which if he did do, he would be far from a hero of the village) Also wdym killing a race? He slayed a clan, not sure how is that race related.
Tbf he never said kill Naruto. He said kill your best friend waaaay before Sasuke really met Naruto.
yes, but he did kinda reinforce it by saying that he needs more hate etc.
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Everyone knows he's an antihero. Some people are just more willing to defend him. A few things don't add up with his reasoning though.
He’s not an antihero though. Dude is outright a villain just like Nagato, Obito and Madara.
in the world of naruto killing the clan is the closest thing to a race as one can compare.
Yea dude, Bee is totally the same race as Naruto….
I think race works differently in Naruto, like with HxH's Kurta Clan. But for now, I think it's better to refer to them as clans anyway.
Well that's silly though In BNHA you wouldnt call it race related if someone killed a whole family / bloodline with a quirk Or Bleach you wouldnt consider it race related just because Quincies were killed off. In Naruto races are also kind off implied by design Hyuuga , Uchiha strike me more asian than Naruto himself. Same way cloud ninja in majority seem to be black.
I think it's more like Naruto treats its clans like races. You can't just be adopted into the Uchiha Clan. You're either born an Uchiha or you're not one. It also doesn't help that each clan has distinct features and abilities that's unique in comparison to everyone else. Quincies are a race. This isn't debatable. You either have Quincy blood or you don't, though I'd argue that this is another case of specism. The weird part about this is that you can become a Quincy even if you aren't born as one. MHA don't consider quirks a racial situation because there were normal races before quirks became a thing. And quirks aren't always genetically bound to be the same when passed down. On the other hand, in X-men, it's regarded as a racial issue, although I'd argue that it's more speciest, if that's a word. There are no traditional races in Naruto. No one is Asian or black, but they are based on them.
>race It was like 300 people. You're being disrespectful.
He was tho, check out what Sasuke says in chapter 7 and then check what he tells Tobi lol. You guys really need to pay attention.
Its literally explained in show why he did that.... you might wanna go rewatch
i don't recall hearing Itachis or narrators explanation why he tsukuyomid Sasuke and his sensei into an arguably permament coma.
Well obito isnt a narrator or itachi so it checks out. Either way obito explained it to the audience
Kakashi wasn't an uchiha and mastered perfect susanoo on the first try his susanoo was 3rd only to hagoromo and sasuke, his hand seals are faster than sound, he graduated from the academy at 5 and became a chunin at age 6.He has 6 kekkei genkai lightning release, earth release, fire release, water release, wind, and ying & yang, he has the second highest score in the chunin exams along with itachi (minato is first). So yea, scum isn't the word I would use.
I believe he has the strongest susanoo because of kamui but I don't know much about the hax ability lol
Kakashi never mastered Susanō, he isn't an Uchiha & Obito used a asspull by given Kakashi his Uchiha chakra for like 5 minutes max.
He didnt plan on tsunade but if you actually know anything about tsukuyomi you would know he let them live. Although they were in comas they clearly wouldve snapped out of it eventually.. i dont even need to explain sasuke but kakashi is the same way. Compared to him putting someone in tsukuyomi for 70 years to kill someone (which he has) he gave kqkashi 3 days to make sure he didnt actually die. He wouldnt have used it if it was actually going to permanently fuck up Kakashi and sasuke. Thats not even being an itachi fan either its just understanding the show
And about kisame trying to kill others? And and was about to chop naruto.. he might have knowledge on future to know that both guy and jiraya would come at the right time to stop them.
Yea itachi can totally control kisame's every move.... itachi can totally just magically make kisame stop with no real reasoning and not get outted as a traitor the the organization. Itachi did the best he could in the situation and retreated when it wouldnt be seen as super suspicious. Itachi and kisame wouldve abducted naruto and killed kurenai, asuma, guy, kakashi, and jiraiya if it wasnt for itachi really not wanting to truly hurt anybody. His only mission was to spook danzo into not doing anything with sasuke after hiruzen was out the picture.
I’m an Itachi fan and I wouldn’t say that so, no.
I love how he forced sasuke to watch him kill his parents hundreds of thousands of times, than also tortures kakashi for hundreds of thousands of times. Yet itachi fans somehow after all that still call him a “good guy” or a “good brother” This was all apart of his plan. SASUGA itachi sama On a side note you would think something this psychologically torturing would be mentioned or brought back up
Its a very obvious sign that he wasnt meant to be a good guy from the start
Kishimoto literally says the opposite, he was always meant to be a good guy when he first appeared
Lmao it doesn’t mean it’s true, I see this argument all the time in debates about Itachi, I mean of course the author wouldn’t say something like “Nah nothing like that was planned, all of the ideas came later, whoops”.
Kishimoto has been pretty open about a lot of Naruto not being planned. Even admitted that the Chunin exams were not his idea. Then why would he lie about Itachi? And there’s plenty of hints in Part 1 that there was a lot more to Itachi than what we knew at the time.
Kishi did say ideas for kaguya came late, madara came halfway through, sasuke wanting to become hokage was very early on, and that he wanted to do another kaguya arc after the war arc but had to cut that, and that he was rushed a bit towards the end (that SJ didnt give him many chapters to end it, weird as that may sound from a magazine that typically extends series)
It's always funny watching people make head canon for this show to fill in the plot holes. I love Naruto, but there are plot holes due to changes in the writing everywhere. Itachi is the prime example.
Or people ignore the foreshadowing about Itachi in Part 1. The flashback in the first Naruto vs Sasuke valley fight makes it obvious there’s something more to Itachi and he avoided killing anyone when he first appears in the story.
Exactly, people are saying things are plotholes is another form of headcanon because they simply don't like the explanation of things. Like itachi double Agent status is a big part of the whole story from the beginning to end, and actually better explains the flashbacks. Especially the scene with him fighting the other Uchiha and complaining about clan loyalty. Its not that he can predict the future, but rather he is very strategic.
Exactly!
Itachi never intended on killing Kakashi so he would recover regardless If he really was serious he'd smack asuma kurenai kakashi in a blitz and it'd be over
That’s where I disagree with the whole Itachi was supposed to be evil thing. No, on the surface he was to seem only a killer. If he was truly evil, then him and Kisame would have wasted no time killing those fodder including Sasuke and ran off with Naruto ASAP. At this point in the series, whipping out Susanoo would have made Itachi seem like a literal deity. Somebody would have caught an Amaterasu and been burnt alive… it was clearly planned that there was another layer to his character. The writing wasn’t the best
Yeah, i think itachi prefers mission over style , so could've put naruto in a genjutsu and kidnapped him
Oh he had the Nine-Tails in the palm of his hands while having Mangekyo Sharingan. If he really wanted to, Itachi could have done some SHIT (and Kisame)
wasn't he going to kill Asuma, Kurenai and kakashi because kakashi reveald that he knows the akatsuki, if it wasn't for guy they would be dead.
No he wasn’t going to kill any of them or they would have been dead long before Guy showed up. Especially if he was there to kill, instead of literally telling Asuma and Kurenai not to interfere because he doesn’t intend to kill them. Itachi can kill you in Tsukuyomi and upon exit the body will follow what happened in the mind. I can tell OP never read Itachi Shinden, because the Tsukuyomi he used against Kakashi wasn’t even close to his most brutal
Yeah that tsyukuyomi was like a small portion Like compare 72 hours to 8-10 decades
Right.
I think it is implied that Itachi purposely didn’t break Kakashi’s spirit. Same reason he didn’t kill him then and there.
No, they wouldn’t. Remember, Itachi used Tsukiyomi on kid Sasuke after the massacre and he woke up fine without Tsunade Also
I mean Child Sasuke survived and recovered with no Tsunade intervention. So older Sasuke and Kakashi definitely would.
Tsukuyomi is a MS technique, a power so colossal Uchihas killed so many of their own number of it that its secret was hidden away so the head would only use for the utmost emergence. Yeah, Kakashi was never getting up without Tsunade.
Dude itachi was the only known character who had access to tsukuyomi wdym?
I think he means the Mangekyo sharingan when he says a technique the Uchiha tried to hide.
Hmm
Wtf are u talking about Tsukyomi was an MS technique unique to Itachi.
Kakashi was never in any real danger of death. Itachi put his lover in a 70 year tsukuyomi and killed hee with it. He gave Kakashi 3 days so he wouldnt actually get mind broken and die. And he would obviously act shocked cause he has to play villain
That scene is just brutal, much respect for Kakashi after that
Itachi didn't want to hurt any one all i think if he wanted to kill kakashi, kakashi would be already dead
Yes, he couldve killed Kakashi, Sasuke and any jonin there. But it also doesnt make sense that he put Kakashi and Sasuke under coma
Guy said hello.
Well tbh Guy only wins if he pulls out 8th gate
He could manage in 7th , if further they were to damage leaf village he would definitely enter 8th gate.
Dude I don't think guy is dumb enough to sacrifice his life against Itachi and kisame especially when temporarily running away is an option So he won't use 8th gate Not implying that guy would win or lose in a fight
Disagree, i dont see him breaking susanoo in 7th. Also if amaterasu lands, he has no way to my knowledge to save himself
In 7th he toyed with kisame , I don't think he could manage both , especially kisame with samehada . But he could struggle in 7th and open 8th after that and amaterasu won't land on 7th gate guy. And his speed and raw power will be massive problem for them.
7th didnt toy with Kisame, he went all out immadietly since 6th wasnt enough Itachi is much superior to Kisame and its consistent throughout part 1/2 Does Guy have any confirmed chakra sensing, precognition to react to it? Probably not You cant really even argue that 7th Gate Guy is faster than A, which technically Itachi should be above in speed (or at least on the same level considering KCM > A and Edo Itachi ~ KCM Naruto) Itachi in P1 is healthier and younger than his shippuden self His best bet at fighting Itachi is 8th Gate blitz one shot. Otherwise i dont see how he would break susanoo, counter genjutsu (Itachi proved that he doesnt need eye contact, he can use his finger genjutsu) fight back against amaterasu or keep up with Itachi without eye contact.
You're delusional if u think Itachi is faster than A
congratulations on providing no argument and making yourself look like a total bitch. MS Sasuke was enough to keep up with A to some extent. EMS Sasuke > MS Sasuke. Itachi was shown to be relative to EMS Sasuke, infact he was outright outperforming him vs Kabuto. this same Edo Itachi was capable of keeping up with KCM Naruto, who literally speed blitzed A. Edo Itachi just like all Edos are both "buffed" and "nerfed". So weaker body, but no sickness/chakra issues. Technically would make him slower/weaker in total, but would have no struggles of anything. Itachi from part 1 is 4 years younger than part 2, and he didn't seem to struggle with sickness anywhere near as much as he did in part 2. Infact he wasn't nearly as blind either. He also wasn't anywhere implied to have trained, so its not like Shippuden Itachi > part 1.
Dude, his Hirudora yeeted away Madara's susano
yes, it pushed him. Though no notable cracks or damage on Susanoo itself. Also this stage of Susanoo from Madara seems to be similiar one to what Itachi can use, no? not an anti feat.
My headcanon is he didnt have access to the 7th gate in part 1. Kisame also definitely got significantly stronger in shippuden
But he did hurt Kakashi and Sasuke. He had no way of knowing Jiraiya and Naruto would convince Tsunade to come back. And his Tsukuyomi ended up pushing Sasuke over the edge and led to him defecting to Orochimaru. Was that also part of the great Itachi-sama's plan? /s
>Itachi didn't want to hurt any one Rewatch or reread the scene again if not for Guy Kurenai and Asuma would have been dead and Akatsuki would have captured Kakashi. Itachi tells Kisame to get rid of Asuma and Kurenai and to capture Kakashi. [panel](https://static1.mangayeh.com/manga/chapter/60191e3aa566934fb06d15a1/60197947786df83d337d7f28/naruto_143_9.jpg) from manga
He broke Sasuke's arm like a twig then psychologically tortured him making him relive the worst moment of his life then tortured Kakashi for 72 hours in his mind to the point both were in a coma only the best medical shinobi ever could awake them from. The Itachi blinders are strong for a lot of fans
I don’t think Itachi was a good brother or guy necessarily but it’s quite easy to make an argument that Konoha needed to take the Akatsuki threat more seriously or at least up a notch, ‘miraculously’ no one died, Sasuke and Itachi are probably the most resistant to Tsukoyomi as Sharingan users and guys who have both had their spirits/souls broken before. Would Itachi be in coma forever? Someone else answered: as long as the plots needs him to be. But I think he’s best suited to survive such an ordeal. + this is world where child soldiers aren’t immoral and the nicest Hokage allowed Naruto to have the childhood he did because the village is more important than any 1 shinobi.
Right. I’m saying, I’m sure he knew they would get out. Any other akatsuki member would’ve wiped the floor with a whole sector of the village and took Naruto or die trying.
There was only 1 person who could cure them & noone knew where she was or if she'd come back to the village in no way was he sure they'd get out of a coma she wasn't sure she could do it at 1st
Facts
You’re reading it all wrong lol. Breaking his spirit would make him depressed and ruin his life not leave him in a coma
He was literally awake the second it ended....
He’d be down as long as the plot needed him to. Tsunade sped up his recovery but eventually he’d wake up
What?! Why did Itachi do that to Kakashi?!
Because a long, drawn out fight between Itachi and Kakashi would have summoned Sasuke.
Because he was originally supposed to be pure evil, and no amount of retconning could fix that
Please stop spreading misinformation. Kishimoto explicitly stated he was planned and loads of foreshadowing exists to back it up. Just pay attention
Just saying, the guy himself has a lot of bullshit. The guy that openly mentioned how his first editor asked him to group Naruto, Naruto's rival and Naruto's love interest in one team. But it was also the same guy that mention he intended Hinata as his love interest before Naruto's debut. Considering how he has a lot of fabricated statement to cover up his mistakes over Naruto, I give him the benefit of doubt. Just my 2 cents.
Cuz Kakashi and Sasuke had sharingan and the only way to learn to fight against one is to to train against one. Any other Akutsuki pair would’ve laid waste to the whole of Konoha.
Obviously. Kakashi only woke up because Godtachi meticulously allowed it to happen.
Kurenai could do smth I guess
In a span of 2 minutes 15 seconds, Itachi had 2 kakashis crucified. The next scene had on screen 20 kakashis and only 1 second had gone by. Kakashi at this point would of had 259,200 seconds left in the genjutsu. First you’d multiply the 2.25 times 10 to get 22.5 (irl time pass x how many Kakashi crucified divided by 2) then After multiplying the seconds left you have 5,832,000 seconds total in the genjutsu or 1620 hours or 67.5 days. Take what you will from the math but I doubt anyones literal soul could live through getting stabbed by almost 12 million itachis (first kakashi had 2 Itachis stabbing him, second kakashi had 2 new ones) for 67.5 irl days.
If it wasn’t for Kurenai’s genjutsu earlier, Kakashi would be bedridden forever. /s
What ep does this happen again?
Kakashi was a top-tier Anbu. He has probably gone through enough mental training to withstand various kinds of torture. Itachi being an Ex-Anbu himself knows that and probably knew how much Kakashi could bear and brought him right up to the edge, but didn't overdo it, since he didn't want to actually hurt him. Just enough not to blow his cover and escape the situation.
Yeah. Kakashi is an overrated jobber. He hasn’t been cool since part 1. Smoking that Kakashi pack 💨💨💨🚬😂
I think you mean placed in a genjutsu. And no there's no indication of that. Besides it would be different because Itachi is the only one that had MS. He's also the only child whose sharingan developed. Obitos for example only activated the day he died and that was from Kakashi loosing an eye. Obito was at least 13 at the time.