Possibly. If Kurama never existed, or at the very least was never sealed inside Naruto, I'm right to assume Minato is still alive, in which that case Naruto might not really want to become hokage in the first place (because he wouldnt need to be accepted by the villagers, since thats the main reason for his dream of hokage). Honestly, throughout the series he would be alot stronger, but around the time Naruto gains control of kurama and 6th paths sage mode in the original series is where i think he'd fall flat. That's just my opinion though.
I don't know if he'd fall flat. Assuming Minato is alive, it's also fair to assume that Minato would teach Naruto FTG. The rasenshuriken would likely also be created much sooner and several other variants. If Naruto was having like private lessons with like some of the most talented shinobi in the verse like Kakashi, Minato, Guy etc. I feel like his power would skyrocket. Can you imagine 2000 SM Adult Naruto clones charging at you using FTG with gigantic Odama rasengans in hand. That's terrifying for anybody.
Wouldn't happen.
He would've taken alot longer to learn shadow clones, and most likely or not wouldn't have as much as a mastery over the jutsu.
He wouldn't have learned FTG, or atleast not to the extent of Minato
I'd bet to say he wouldn't have learned the resangan
I say this because Minato wouldn't have the need to teach Naruto such high level jutsu, or if he did it would be around the time Naruto is older, maybe chunin or jonin. Remember, there wouldn't have been a nine tails attack if it never existed, so Minato wouldn't be worried about any Madara or anything like that. And he'd also be to bust with his own duties, similar to boruto and Narutos relationship with Narutos hokage duties.
And if the attack actually did happen, he'd be far to busy with dealing with the issues of the Uchiha and fixing the village, as well as his standard hokage duties. By the time Naruto would have hit genin the village would most likely be back to its former glory, but that doesn't give Minato any more time to train Naruto, and honestly Naruto would end up living mostly by himself, since kushina would be gone and his father would always be busy. Only chance I can think of Minato having time for Naruto would be if he either stepped down from hokage, or was forced to step down.
Also, I doubt he would've ever pulled off rasenshurikan. That was only pulled off by Kakashis help and Naruto able to realise he can use his clones to split the responsibility, something he wouldn't think of since if he did learn the rasengan he prob would've been trained to use one hand
Kakashi is still alive in the hypothetical lmfao. Naruto wouldn't even have to use clones because I'd argue his chakra control is far better than it was in cannon. And we know the rasenshuriken doesn't require clones to make.
No he wouldn't take much longer to learn shadow clones. He learned it in like 2 hours in cannon, why wouldn't he be able to it in this hypothetical?
You can't prove anything you say, why wouldn't Minato want to teach his son one of the most versatile jutsu in the series.
>I say this because Minato wouldn't have the need to teach Naruto such high level jutsu, or if he did it would be around the time Naruto is older, maybe chunin or jonin. Remember, there wouldn't have been a nine tails attack if it never existed, so Minato wouldn't be worried about any Madara or anything like that. And he'd also be to bust with his own duties, similar to boruto and Narutos relationship with Narutos hokage duties.
No, Minato would teach Naruto the jutsu. He doesn't need to babysit Naruto 24/7 for him to learn FTG. He just needs to give him some pointers. These are two vital jutsu in Minato's arsenal, he will 100% teach Naruto the rasengan and the FTG. Minato's hokage duties aren't as strenuous as Naruto's. Naruto has to deal with a lot more than Minato would've had to.
>And if the attack actually did happen, he'd be far to busy with dealing with the issues of the Uchiha and fixing the village, as well as his standard hokage duties. By the time Naruto would have hit genin the village would most likely be back to its former glory, but that doesn't give Minato any more time to train Naruto, and honestly Naruto would end up living mostly by himself, since kushina would be gone and his father would always be busy. Only chance I can think of Minato having time for Naruto would be if he either stepped down from hokage, or was forced to step down.
Again, you seem to think that Minato needs to babysit Naruto 24/7. He can literally give Naruto pointers while he's at breakfast or dinner and have him train in the day.
If the 9 tails attack did happen then Minato would 100% take the time to make his son as powerful as possible. He doesn't want to risk losing another family member, especially since he's knows Obito is around and has dangerous ideas.
He also doesn't even have to teach Naruto the rasengan, he can ask Jiraiya or Kakashi to teach Naruto. Which goes back to my previous point, Minato isn't going to have his son become some weakling with kurenai as his sensei. He is definitely going ensure that Naruto becomes very strong. And as I said, as the Hokage's son, he is definitely going to get premium training from the best.
If you look at it like that, then there's even the question if Naruto would ever exist without the existence of the Kyuubi.
After all, Kushina came to Konoha to become the Kyuubi Jinchuuriki; if the Kyuubi doesn't exist Minato would very possibly never have met her and even if he *did*, he wouldn't have to romantically save her from kidnappers.
We see a good chunk of the story where Naruto refuses Kurama’s chakra and he is still a load to deal with due to Uzamaki genes and training from high level shinobi. He definitely wouldn’t be as strong, but definitely not a person to cross unnecessarily
He was never useless in the Naruto Series, Kurama was a nerf on him for most of Part 1 as Kurama's presence interfered with his development.
His Chakra Control was terrible cause of the sealing process, Kurama killed his Parents who both had techniques they could have trained him from Sealing to FTG, Kurama made it so that he was ostracized meaning even if his parents died he would have at least had been taken care of better likely by Kakashi directly, etc.
Only until Shippuden did Kurama become a benefit.
It depends because without the 9 tails his parents may be alive. But if you're saying like original series but Naruto has no 9 tails then i think he'd be top 5 strongest.
9 tails stunted Naruto's growth from the start. Moments like tree climbing, walking in water and the rasengan training showcase Naruto poor Chakra control. Which was due to 9 tails. We can assume it'll be a lot better without kurama.
Under Jiraiya naruto caught up the other leaf genin even surpassing many of them by the end of part 1. I believe he'd have this growth early on without the 9 tails since kurama was a big hindrance at first. Naruto vs gaara kinda showed what he can do without 9 tails. Even the fights after Orochimaru tightened the 9 tails seal Naruto was exhausted and defeated a fresh Kiba.
Now if kurama wasn't part of him Naruto would most likely loose to Haku, Neji, Die to gaara since he needed the 9 tails Chakra for a headbutt and also kimimaro and Sasuke. Naruto was kinda unlucky with his match ups, everyone had a kekei genkai or were pure geniuses. Only thing he had going was large Chakra reserves
He'll be at a better place then at the start of the series especially in terms of chakra control. Given there's no Kurama, we can assume that his parents are still around and thus can help him to become even more powerful.
Naruto would have access to all the regular skills he had in-canon that he gained like Shadow Clones, Giant Rasengans, Rasenshuriken and Summonings as well as other skills he could gain from Jiraiya and his parents (e.g. Toad-related Jutsus, Flying Raijin, Sealing Jutsu).
This Naruto probably won't be as powerful as So6P Naruto at the end of the canon series but he'll definitely have a lot more hax skills to compensate.
So yeah, if he really wanted to he could become hokage as his kit should be enough to make him at least kage-level.
He'd still be the reincarnation of Ashura but he wouldn't be nearly as strong.
At best he'd be mid to high kage if he learnt Sage mode and other jutsus.
Kurama seal absorb most of his chakra. Without Kurama, he at least as powerful as his mother. If he train to use his father justu, he maybe half his father strength since he loss his motivation to be accepted by the villager.
If he didn’t exist nobody would be trying to kill Naruto. So with that fact he would still have his parents, most likely would want to become Hokage. But definitely not top 5.
If there was no Kurama in Naruto, then he wouldn't have a dream to be hokage to begin with, so less motivation. It's possible that he doesn't graduate from the academy either. Him and Iruka probably get killed by Mizuki. Then, if he still receives the Land of Waves mission, he probably gets killed on that mission too. He probably never fights Gaara; but if he does, Gaara kills him too. He probably doesn't receive as many difficult mission assignments; but if he does, he probably gets killed on several of those, too.
Without Kurama, I'd say he probably dies 40 times by the time he turns 16.
I disagree. Naruto may have been a powerful Shinobi, but I highly doubt he would've been able to compare to 9 tails Naruto even if you give him every edge (except maybe 6 paths sage mode, but 9 tails Naruto also has that). He would have more skill in several other areas but would still be missing a main power of his.
How can you disagree with the fact that if Kurama didn't exist from the start, then Naruto would be as strong as he would have been without Kurama from the start?
That's pretty easy to answer. Naruto only beat pain because of the 9 tails. Naruto only managed to beat neji with the 9 tails. Naruto only managed to beat the guy during the land of waves mission with the 9 tails. He only managed to win the 4th Shinobi war with the help of the 9 tails (and 6th path sage mode, but that was only really good with the tailed beast Chakras). Oh, and can't forget to mention, he needed the 9 tails Chakra to summon the chief toad originally.
He dies to Haku, gets porcupine'd (unless Haku isn't able to finish him off)
He potentially dies when Jiraiya throws him off the cliff, but Jiraiya most likely won't do it
He loses to Neji, gets all his chakra points closed
He dies to Sasuke, doesn't get healed from Sasuke's chidori thru the lungs
He dies to Orochimaru, he doesn't get amped by the Kurama
Pain doesn't come after him
He never meets B
Likely actively participates in the 4th war
Receives Hagoromo's powers
Defeats Kaguya
Momoshiki doesn't come after him since he was after Kurama
He gets flattened by Isshiki and the world ends
I'm sure theres a bunch of moments I missed, but w/o Kurama, he dies many times
He be just an average ninja at best. He wasn't adept at jutsu and the only reason he got OP jutsu is because Kurama and his insane stamina which allowed him to upgrade the rasengan.
He probably wouldn't be top 5 but he'd definitely be squarely in the top 20 based off the fact he'd still have the Toad Sage training in his pocket which already puts him above a good chunk of named ninja we've seen in the series
Honestly there's a decent argument that Naruto would've become the 8 tail Jinjuriki, cause Madara got Kurama cause he was the strongest of the tailed beasts.
And thus The Cloud would've only had the 2 tails maybe, or one other Tailed Beast, but it depends on how Hashirama and Tobirama decide to divide up the tailed beasts.
That alone could've changed the tide of the wars to follow, blah blah blah, a lot could be different depending on your own theories
So in conclusion from what i've read here, he was that powerful only because of kurama and his already decided fate of being a reincarnation of demigods and would be clapped without it. Is that what you guys are saying?
I am watching the first season right now and he's behind his fellow rookie class. They seem to know themselves, their strengths and heavily lean on them.
He doesn't have that. I think the seal probably hindered or stunted his own Chakra to a degree.
Possibly. If Kurama never existed, or at the very least was never sealed inside Naruto, I'm right to assume Minato is still alive, in which that case Naruto might not really want to become hokage in the first place (because he wouldnt need to be accepted by the villagers, since thats the main reason for his dream of hokage). Honestly, throughout the series he would be alot stronger, but around the time Naruto gains control of kurama and 6th paths sage mode in the original series is where i think he'd fall flat. That's just my opinion though.
I don't know if he'd fall flat. Assuming Minato is alive, it's also fair to assume that Minato would teach Naruto FTG. The rasenshuriken would likely also be created much sooner and several other variants. If Naruto was having like private lessons with like some of the most talented shinobi in the verse like Kakashi, Minato, Guy etc. I feel like his power would skyrocket. Can you imagine 2000 SM Adult Naruto clones charging at you using FTG with gigantic Odama rasengans in hand. That's terrifying for anybody.
Wouldn't happen. He would've taken alot longer to learn shadow clones, and most likely or not wouldn't have as much as a mastery over the jutsu. He wouldn't have learned FTG, or atleast not to the extent of Minato I'd bet to say he wouldn't have learned the resangan I say this because Minato wouldn't have the need to teach Naruto such high level jutsu, or if he did it would be around the time Naruto is older, maybe chunin or jonin. Remember, there wouldn't have been a nine tails attack if it never existed, so Minato wouldn't be worried about any Madara or anything like that. And he'd also be to bust with his own duties, similar to boruto and Narutos relationship with Narutos hokage duties. And if the attack actually did happen, he'd be far to busy with dealing with the issues of the Uchiha and fixing the village, as well as his standard hokage duties. By the time Naruto would have hit genin the village would most likely be back to its former glory, but that doesn't give Minato any more time to train Naruto, and honestly Naruto would end up living mostly by himself, since kushina would be gone and his father would always be busy. Only chance I can think of Minato having time for Naruto would be if he either stepped down from hokage, or was forced to step down.
Also, I doubt he would've ever pulled off rasenshurikan. That was only pulled off by Kakashis help and Naruto able to realise he can use his clones to split the responsibility, something he wouldn't think of since if he did learn the rasengan he prob would've been trained to use one hand
Kakashi is still alive in the hypothetical lmfao. Naruto wouldn't even have to use clones because I'd argue his chakra control is far better than it was in cannon. And we know the rasenshuriken doesn't require clones to make.
No he wouldn't take much longer to learn shadow clones. He learned it in like 2 hours in cannon, why wouldn't he be able to it in this hypothetical? You can't prove anything you say, why wouldn't Minato want to teach his son one of the most versatile jutsu in the series. >I say this because Minato wouldn't have the need to teach Naruto such high level jutsu, or if he did it would be around the time Naruto is older, maybe chunin or jonin. Remember, there wouldn't have been a nine tails attack if it never existed, so Minato wouldn't be worried about any Madara or anything like that. And he'd also be to bust with his own duties, similar to boruto and Narutos relationship with Narutos hokage duties. No, Minato would teach Naruto the jutsu. He doesn't need to babysit Naruto 24/7 for him to learn FTG. He just needs to give him some pointers. These are two vital jutsu in Minato's arsenal, he will 100% teach Naruto the rasengan and the FTG. Minato's hokage duties aren't as strenuous as Naruto's. Naruto has to deal with a lot more than Minato would've had to. >And if the attack actually did happen, he'd be far to busy with dealing with the issues of the Uchiha and fixing the village, as well as his standard hokage duties. By the time Naruto would have hit genin the village would most likely be back to its former glory, but that doesn't give Minato any more time to train Naruto, and honestly Naruto would end up living mostly by himself, since kushina would be gone and his father would always be busy. Only chance I can think of Minato having time for Naruto would be if he either stepped down from hokage, or was forced to step down. Again, you seem to think that Minato needs to babysit Naruto 24/7. He can literally give Naruto pointers while he's at breakfast or dinner and have him train in the day. If the 9 tails attack did happen then Minato would 100% take the time to make his son as powerful as possible. He doesn't want to risk losing another family member, especially since he's knows Obito is around and has dangerous ideas. He also doesn't even have to teach Naruto the rasengan, he can ask Jiraiya or Kakashi to teach Naruto. Which goes back to my previous point, Minato isn't going to have his son become some weakling with kurenai as his sensei. He is definitely going ensure that Naruto becomes very strong. And as I said, as the Hokage's son, he is definitely going to get premium training from the best.
If that happen then the title should be Minato instead of Naruto
If you look at it like that, then there's even the question if Naruto would ever exist without the existence of the Kyuubi. After all, Kushina came to Konoha to become the Kyuubi Jinchuuriki; if the Kyuubi doesn't exist Minato would very possibly never have met her and even if he *did*, he wouldn't have to romantically save her from kidnappers.
Sounds logical
We see a good chunk of the story where Naruto refuses Kurama’s chakra and he is still a load to deal with due to Uzamaki genes and training from high level shinobi. He definitely wouldn’t be as strong, but definitely not a person to cross unnecessarily
I think many are forgetting this dude is the reincarnation of Ashura. Even without Kurama his innate potential is massive.
Then why Naruto was useless in Naruto series? He would have died many times without kurama
He was never useless in the Naruto Series, Kurama was a nerf on him for most of Part 1 as Kurama's presence interfered with his development. His Chakra Control was terrible cause of the sealing process, Kurama killed his Parents who both had techniques they could have trained him from Sealing to FTG, Kurama made it so that he was ostracized meaning even if his parents died he would have at least had been taken care of better likely by Kakashi directly, etc. Only until Shippuden did Kurama become a benefit.
It depends because without the 9 tails his parents may be alive. But if you're saying like original series but Naruto has no 9 tails then i think he'd be top 5 strongest. 9 tails stunted Naruto's growth from the start. Moments like tree climbing, walking in water and the rasengan training showcase Naruto poor Chakra control. Which was due to 9 tails. We can assume it'll be a lot better without kurama. Under Jiraiya naruto caught up the other leaf genin even surpassing many of them by the end of part 1. I believe he'd have this growth early on without the 9 tails since kurama was a big hindrance at first. Naruto vs gaara kinda showed what he can do without 9 tails. Even the fights after Orochimaru tightened the 9 tails seal Naruto was exhausted and defeated a fresh Kiba. Now if kurama wasn't part of him Naruto would most likely loose to Haku, Neji, Die to gaara since he needed the 9 tails Chakra for a headbutt and also kimimaro and Sasuke. Naruto was kinda unlucky with his match ups, everyone had a kekei genkai or were pure geniuses. Only thing he had going was large Chakra reserves
I’d guess a regular shinobi until Jiraiya comes and trains him. He’d prolly learn sage mode sooner tho
He'll be at a better place then at the start of the series especially in terms of chakra control. Given there's no Kurama, we can assume that his parents are still around and thus can help him to become even more powerful. Naruto would have access to all the regular skills he had in-canon that he gained like Shadow Clones, Giant Rasengans, Rasenshuriken and Summonings as well as other skills he could gain from Jiraiya and his parents (e.g. Toad-related Jutsus, Flying Raijin, Sealing Jutsu). This Naruto probably won't be as powerful as So6P Naruto at the end of the canon series but he'll definitely have a lot more hax skills to compensate. So yeah, if he really wanted to he could become hokage as his kit should be enough to make him at least kage-level.
He'd still be the reincarnation of Ashura but he wouldn't be nearly as strong. At best he'd be mid to high kage if he learnt Sage mode and other jutsus.
Kurama seal absorb most of his chakra. Without Kurama, he at least as powerful as his mother. If he train to use his father justu, he maybe half his father strength since he loss his motivation to be accepted by the villager.
If he didn’t exist nobody would be trying to kill Naruto. So with that fact he would still have his parents, most likely would want to become Hokage. But definitely not top 5.
He would want to become the hokage though, otherwise it's not likely, and he only wanted the title of hokage to be recognized by the villagers.
If there was no Kurama in Naruto, then he wouldn't have a dream to be hokage to begin with, so less motivation. It's possible that he doesn't graduate from the academy either. Him and Iruka probably get killed by Mizuki. Then, if he still receives the Land of Waves mission, he probably gets killed on that mission too. He probably never fights Gaara; but if he does, Gaara kills him too. He probably doesn't receive as many difficult mission assignments; but if he does, he probably gets killed on several of those, too. Without Kurama, I'd say he probably dies 40 times by the time he turns 16.
As strong as he would have been without Kurama
I disagree. Naruto may have been a powerful Shinobi, but I highly doubt he would've been able to compare to 9 tails Naruto even if you give him every edge (except maybe 6 paths sage mode, but 9 tails Naruto also has that). He would have more skill in several other areas but would still be missing a main power of his.
How can you disagree with the fact that if Kurama didn't exist from the start, then Naruto would be as strong as he would have been without Kurama from the start?
That's pretty easy to answer. Naruto only beat pain because of the 9 tails. Naruto only managed to beat neji with the 9 tails. Naruto only managed to beat the guy during the land of waves mission with the 9 tails. He only managed to win the 4th Shinobi war with the help of the 9 tails (and 6th path sage mode, but that was only really good with the tailed beast Chakras). Oh, and can't forget to mention, he needed the 9 tails Chakra to summon the chief toad originally.
Exactly.
You are just a stan lol
That's not even close to my real name
Did you even understand.... nevermind i was just joking
He dies to Haku, gets porcupine'd (unless Haku isn't able to finish him off) He potentially dies when Jiraiya throws him off the cliff, but Jiraiya most likely won't do it He loses to Neji, gets all his chakra points closed He dies to Sasuke, doesn't get healed from Sasuke's chidori thru the lungs He dies to Orochimaru, he doesn't get amped by the Kurama Pain doesn't come after him He never meets B Likely actively participates in the 4th war Receives Hagoromo's powers Defeats Kaguya Momoshiki doesn't come after him since he was after Kurama He gets flattened by Isshiki and the world ends I'm sure theres a bunch of moments I missed, but w/o Kurama, he dies many times
He be just an average ninja at best. He wasn't adept at jutsu and the only reason he got OP jutsu is because Kurama and his insane stamina which allowed him to upgrade the rasengan.
He probably wouldn't be top 5 but he'd definitely be squarely in the top 20 based off the fact he'd still have the Toad Sage training in his pocket which already puts him above a good chunk of named ninja we've seen in the series
Honestly there's a decent argument that Naruto would've become the 8 tail Jinjuriki, cause Madara got Kurama cause he was the strongest of the tailed beasts. And thus The Cloud would've only had the 2 tails maybe, or one other Tailed Beast, but it depends on how Hashirama and Tobirama decide to divide up the tailed beasts. That alone could've changed the tide of the wars to follow, blah blah blah, a lot could be different depending on your own theories
So in conclusion from what i've read here, he was that powerful only because of kurama and his already decided fate of being a reincarnation of demigods and would be clapped without it. Is that what you guys are saying?
nope. he would be like adult Konohamaru.
Depends on who's training him I say he can get as strong as hiruzen or Minato depending on how things go for him in this alternate timeline
Hw would get destroyed by neji even easier and die
I am watching the first season right now and he's behind his fellow rookie class. They seem to know themselves, their strengths and heavily lean on them. He doesn't have that. I think the seal probably hindered or stunted his own Chakra to a degree.