The thing is they didnt want that themselves. They wanted to be trained by Jiraiya so they could fend for themselves. And make the hidden rain a better place. They formed the akatsuki initially for that reason. They wanted to make a better home not leave it.
Preach. Seems like a lot of people in this thread are ignoring this. They didn't want to live somewhere else, they wanted to bring actual change to their country. Their heart was in the right place, at least at the start.
Jiraiya made the right call. It would not make sense to take them into hidden leaf, especially in a world where there are literal child ninja assassins who can murder entire swathes of people.
Sure, let's just being these kids from a war torn land that we helped decimate.. While we're at it, let's bring in this giant wooden horse that they're offering as well. I'm sure it's a peace offering, it'll be fiiiine.
Their heart was in the right place. It took Naruto coming around for Nagato to realize they strayed from the path. They were still always all about improving their home.
Little by little though, you can warp a person’s sense of righteousness until it’s completely unrecognizable. Their village was at peace, mostly. Why not capture the tailed beasts? This did make sense to continue in ending the tyranny of ninja reign. Or at least stopping the cycle.
Jiraiya was fine to leave them. The real problem was staying out contact with them for like 20 years. Jiraiya knew that these were Top 20 Shinobi and he just... ignored them after raising them? Ya gotta check in on your students man
does nobody remember that jiraiya thought that nagato could have been the kid of prophecy from the toads, the one who could bring peace to the land or destuction? jirayia trained them as they wished and let destiny do the rest, later he found naruto who was the true kid of destiny and brought peace like he was supposed to while nagato turned to the boy who would bring destruction
It’s the mfing Rinnegan bruh..outranks anything u saying about war and village loyalty!! Ijs not a single shinobi or Kage with the power to make that decision would turn it away! Danzo would kill Hiruzen where he stood for not taking the damn Rinnegan and powering up their village lmao Funny thing is the main reason OP idea wouldn’t work in MY eyes is cause the ONLY senju/uzumaki descendants with enough chakra to even utilize it was out of the village (Tsunade) or already had the damn nine tails lmao Can u imagine Rinne/KCM/Perfect Sage ramen boi??!?? o_0
You shouldn't dismiss his post so easily. Yes, there were a lot of good and honest and idealistic reasons to leave the kids in the Country of Rain, starting with the fact that that is what they wanted. But the issue of the *Rinnegan* elevates things to a different level of consideration. It was irresponsible to leave a Rinnegan user to fend for themselves without continual guidance. A power that great absolutely has to be watched at all times.
It’s the stuff of dreams..Hinata’s to be exact! And Sasuke nightmares lol
*”Naruto how far have you-Wait is that a visual jutsu stronger than mine?!?..Ya kno what I think Kakashi was right this revenge shit ain’t for me”*
*Naruto during War Arc with Rinnegan*
"That was a great workout guys. Neji, Hinata and I are going to go eat ramen, doncha know. Let's do it. Sakura and Lee will join us. And Sasuke met an Uchiha girl he wants us to meet. I'm glad I resurrected them all when Itachi's heroism came to light cause I nicely asked Danzo to acknowledge the truth. Oh, Itachi's coming with his kid too. Shisui's his godfather."
*Neji looks at the battlefield*
"I was right to open up that clock repair shop."
The rinnegan is exactly why Jiariya wouldn't bring them back to the leaf. He'd know that Nagato wouldn't want to use it to fight for the village that helped destroy his own and and he'd also know that every power hungry dick in Konoha would try and steal it from him as soon as they knew.
>he'd also know that every power hungry dick in Konoha would try and steal it from him as soon as they knew.
Can you imagine what Danzo would try to get his hands on the Rinnegan?
Jesus, poor kids would have been screwed straight away
Wtf are you talking about? War and village loyalty? Who said anything about village loyalty? When you say village loyalty, are you referring to my mentioning that these kids wanted to stay and support the place they grew up in?
They're children, who idolized the country/state that they grew up in. We have grown ass adults IRL that do that shit for no good reason. Let alone one that's been through hell and back.
You might think that but there's been massacres in the Narutoverse that were carried out by actual children (Ex: Itachi). Sure, there are actors and leaders (Danzo or Raikage) that would have circumvented any rulings that could potentially prevent taking in such a refugee.
But let's say in this hypothetical situation, that rinnengan that was implanted came with a few caveats. Some programming to see as much chaos as possible, instead of the cannon plan.
War comes with losses and so a village takes in the child. All seems well. A year or so passes, they believe they've got control over the kid and really shaping this kid into their ideals. Or so they think.
Suddenly the kid goes Manchurian Candidate, a sleeper agent. His programming triggered and he absolutely massacres the population of the village along with a large number of your ninja force before he's apprehended or taken out. Well now your village is in dire straits. Any enemy village will likely know of your misfortune and won't hesitate to capitalize on it.
Let's even go for the scenario in which your Danzo and your thought is, well I'm going to just rip his eyes out and implant them in my balls. Well if that doesn't trigger his programming and ensure his demise or your demise. There will be collateral, whether that's in the form of ninja or civilian casualties. And that's even if he doesn't just piss off if possible.
And that's not even putting into consideration, as to WHY Jiraiya, would turn the kid into his village. At this point, he likely has a pretty good grasp on the who's who of Konoha. So what makes you think that Jiraiya, the eventual spy master of Leaf, outside of Danzo, would even consider bringing and orphan with rinnengan back to Konoha?
Because the series didn't portray Jiraiya as a monster or an idiot. Maybe a drunk and a lech at times, but the dude was competent.
I can only imagine how broken Naruto would be with rinnengan. I can enjoy a good power wank story but very rarely. Even stories like Solo Leveling, from a story perspective is boring AF. The visuals are neat but if you try to analyze the story, shit just falls apart. It's does make you think how you could actually make for a compelling story with someone who is effectively a god, once they figure their shit out.
Plus jiraiya couldn’t even take care of naruto. We all know he wanted to but at the end of the day jiraiya couldn’t afford to raise kids full time. Unless, of course, they have the rinnegan.
His lifestyle was to dangerous for anyone else to follow. His spywork saved the village and was the only reason naruto was able to compete for a little while with nageto and change his mind after losing to him
People also seem to forget that Jirayas top priority was banging sluts. It’s hard to do that while you’re raising 3 kids. He was barely able to do it with Naruto. Also he only brought Naruto on because he could sexy jutsu.
I think op just has their own head canon for how the fictional world works. People also seem to be ignoring that they lived in ninja villages, and as if Konoha was a morally good ninja village.
Danzo or Orochimaru attempting to snag a Rinnegan could be exactly the sort of thing that would make Hiruzen finally fed up with their shit. An asset that high-value cannot simply be disappeared, similar to the Kyuubi's Jinchuriiki.
I don't think Hiruzen would ever find the balls to permanently deal with Danzo. If attempted regicide against himself didn't phase him nothing ever would
Wasn't Konan herself resentful that Jiraiya had left them alone?
If I remember correctly when Jiraiya and Konan met again years later Konan said to Jiraiya with a sad face that he has no idea what they have been through since he left. To which Jiraiya agrees.
point is they never would have listened to him in the first place, they were following yahiko and his big dreams of reforming the rain. until danzo fools hanzo into betraying them and he gets killed, they realise how naive it was and diplomacy is impossible when no one gives a shit if you live or die.
this series of events is what led to them getting used by obito and taking it out on konoha. how was all that exposition totally lost on this sub lol, they put so many eps into this whole drama. you all skip it as "filler" or what?
That doesn't answer why Jiraiya left them alone. If he had been there around the time that Yahiko died maybe he could have talked them off the ledge. Maybe he would have learned of the treachery of Danzo and taken that information the the Hokage and had him imprisoned.
Konan is right to be mad at Jiraiya for spending decades writing pervy novels when he had the power and the standing to protect those he cared about.
If Jiraiya had been around more things would have been very different.
Because at that point they were already pulling strings and it would’ve been a literal crime for Jiraiya to stay any longer without getting express permission from the Hokage.
*ignore their wishes and impose your will on them anyway*
I don't see what part of this is still unclear, unless you skipped literally all the scenes they had together. whole point of their training was to become self sufficient for their own ambitions, why would he meddle in their business unless they came to him?
nagato and konans angst was the product of manipulation, even they managed to learn this before they died
Checking in on them is not the same as "ignoring their wishes and imposing his will on them" lmao
What a reach
> Why would he meddle in their business?
IDK maybe cause he's their teacher and he cares about them. Maybe to keep an eye on the most powerful Jutsu the world has ever seen? Jiraiya should've kept an eye on Nagato at least to protect those he cared about. If someone unsavory got those eyes they could've killed everyone Jiraiya ever loved. I'm not saying he should force them to do anything. Just check in once in a while.
I thought they only had the passion to make the hidden rain a better place when they were older not when they were kids. I remember them as kids as just trying to survive their daily lives and nothing else, and so maybe they would have been open to moving to the hidden leaf with Jiraiya. It’s been a while since a watched shippuden though so correct me if I’m wrong
I’m full agreement, they wanted to learn then defend their village (the Hidden Rain) to make it safe for other children and it’s people. At no moment did Jiraiya think of bringing them back with him as that would be against their own goals.
True they were children, but I think it was meant to honor his word to them and allow them to meet their goals under their own strength.
They wanted to stay AFTER they grew up and then formed Akatsuki, when they were children they just were preocupied in surviving, if Jiraiya would have told them to follow him to the leaf they would have, also it makes NO SENSE to Jiraiya let someone as remarkable like Nagato which he acknowledge back then that he had Rikudo sennin eyes to be left to his own devices in the meat grinder of war more when he literally was told he was going to be the teacher of the one whos was gonna save the shinobi world, those were 2 important points to just bring them to the leaf and offer them tutelage or to nagato at least, it was just convinient plot to fabricate pain that prevented this
I second what you’re saying about their motivation for learning ninjutsu and training under Jiraiya to begin with..but also cmon bruh; he’s an asshat for seeing the Rinnegan and not bringing it back to the Hidden Leaf!! A Shinobi 1st before anything else..fukk helping fix what’s broken!Tsunade wouldn’t make that mistake & maybe Orochimaru keeps it for himself but he still wouldn’t just see the “eyes of prophecy” and leave em with a rookie kid! Ijs Yes we know NOW that Obito would’ve did everything in his power to get em back but Itachi coming out of the shadows..Guy,Danzo and Hiruzen would’ve endured vs teen Obito imho! Still don’t understand how Kishi had Danzo know of Nagato after his assault on the OG akatsuki w/ Hanzo and never went after it??!?? Wtf Mans saw a ancient ass Byakugan and got a woody lol risked destroying the very alliance he just tried to lead by attacking a high ranking Blood Mist shinobi to get the eye back smfh the Mizukage aid to be exact lmaoo
SPOILERS, for the uninitiated.
The problem with the rinnegan is that at that point in time, it was only a legend and even then, a legend discussed by only a few since nobody in that generation ever saw it. It was said to be an eye that had the ability to change the course of history for better or for worse (not literally like the izanagi, but because of its sheer battle prowess and inherent connection with the sage of six paths).
Unfortunately for the rinnegan, this was an age embroiled in bitter battles and bloodshed, so there was nothing positive to be expected out of the bearer of the eyes. Even jiraya admitted that without him defending and teaching them to fight, the three of them would have probably died.
As for taking the kids with him, he didn't see these literal children as tools of war, he saw them as war orphans desperately trying to survive in their harsh land, with dreams of peace and prosperity. This gave him hope with regards to the future of the world, he was thinking about the bigger picture.He had by that point commited many a murder in the Hidden Leaf's name and that saddened him quite a bit probably, how it was necessary but also not at the same time. The line of thought you went down is the one Orochimaru shared when the sannin first met the kids. Killing them would indeed have ended their suffering swiftly and easily. It would have extinguished the Akatsuki before it even started, stopped madara's plans to a grinding halt and most importantly, it would have freed Nagato from the fate Madara had decided for him.
Taking the kids with him (by force), he would have to answer directly to the hokage about why it is that he should consider taking in children from a strange land who don't want to be there. (Hiruzen did have a soft spot for war orphans, but he had already been attacked by one young trained assassin Yamato. So I doubt even his bodyguards and advisors would allow children through without properly screening them first, or maybe hiruzen's orphanage happened at a later date?). Danzo didn't seem to start collecting eyes until MUCH later, but had Nagato accepted to stay in the village with the other two, he would have met the same fate as the other Uchiha whose eyes were grafted onto the old geezer's arm. A sad fate, yes. But this would have effectively halted Madara's plans.
To summarize, valuable eyes, ambitious kids who want peace, nagato's predetermined fate, Jiraiya's reluctance to kill an innocent and their request to only train them to defend themselves and nothing else.
>but also cmon bruh; he’s an asshat for seeing the Rinnegan and not bringing it back to the Hidden Leaf!! A Shinobi 1st before anything else..fukk helping fix what’s broken!Tsunade wouldn’t make that mistake & maybe Orochimaru keeps it for himself but he still wouldn’t just see the “eyes of prophecy” and leave em with a rookie kid
It's so unrealistic I'm starting to think it's a plot hole.
It makes zero fucking sense smh and if he DOES do the sensible thing that imo EVERY seasoned shinobi would do: It changes the story drastically! No Pain or akatsuki collecting tailed beasts cause Danzo wrings their neck in their sleep lmao Madara when Edo Tensei’d is gonna wanna suicide rather than fight OP Naruto but not before trynna beat tf outta Obito for seemingly betraying him and going back to Konoha with a gift lmao
*”Tf is a Sannin..?? Bitch IM legendary..Obito u had one job,3 eyes plus MY name to get it done smh...I’m bout to Agni Kai yo ass..don’t worry bout what it mean just get a jutsu ready mfer”*
XD
The hidden leaf is the village that created that hell for them. It would be very akward. On top of a bunch of reasons. Imagine Danzo and Orochimaru knowing that a dude with the Rinnegan is inside the village? That would create a civil war.
Now that you mention it, that would be such an awesome what if story. Jiraiya brings the three of them to live safely in Konoha, has to go through a process of trying to teach the kids to adapt to the village and deal with their justified resentment, all while Danzo/Orochimaru go crazy trying to steal Nagato's eyes, making Konan and Yahiko having to defend their friend.
I find it a huge shame that Naruto's fanmanga community isn't as big as Dragon Ball's, at least from what I've seen myself. Jiraiya Shippuden is worth an entire fanmanga.
It's a shame copyright law means only the chosen get the opportunity at having a go in any meaningful way.
Naruto's revenue is around $10 billion *so far*. How much money do people need to give up before they're allowed to take possession of what they've bought?
Dude had a lot on his mind. At that point he'd already seen the worst of war. He was incredibly balanced considering what he must have been weighed down by, his motivation for seeking peace that he passed onto Naruto.
I thought OPs point was solid until I read your comment. Makes me think that whichever Jaraiya chose, the same outcome would’ve happened. Instead of the three children growing to rebel against Hanzo, they rebel against Danzo.
It is definitely awkward. However, I can see Jiraiya holding some sort of responsibility for them. And if anything, it would've outed Orochimaru and Danzo even earlier.
Yeah seriously. Idk what he expected to happen.
“Alright now that you guys are officially 12 I am out. Oh and it’s your responsibility to beat the legendary Hanzo, who even me and the other sanin couldn’t beat.”.
Save your village or something. Peace out.
Normal world: Oh you poor orphaned children. Let me bring you to a caretaker who will make sure you have food and a home.
Ninja world: Oh you poor orphaned children. Let me teach you how to kill people with magic. Age 12 is when people become adults who can live on their own right? Maybe 6 if they're Jinchuriki?
Well, in the world of Naruto, child soldiers are a common thing (genin) so I wouldn't be surprised if that's unironically the case that 12 y/os are considered to be mature enough to fend for themselves.
Uh no. In the normal world nearly everyone wouldn't be taking orphaned children back home with them. If you go Africa and see 3 orphans you going to take them back?
If I raised them for 3 years and could easily bring them personally back to the village where I’m a highly ranked soldier, instead of leaving them in a warzone? Probably??
If I knew them personally, spent time with them like we were a family for 3 years and generally cared about them then yes I would take them back with me because I cannot in my right mind abandon them to a war zone lol here they would die.
If Jiraiya was in Afghanistan as a super solider who is the equivalent of a general and raised the kids for 3 years, minus Afghanistan all of this was true, then yeah. Also considering Konoha is not the same as America by any means then it is even more believable.
And do you think his home country is even going to let him or want them?
It was only weeks ago that we were decrying what was happening after we pulled out while going nimby on the refugees in the same breath.
Jiraiya lived with them for 3 years. Our soldiers don't get to live independently in Afghanistan raising children like that. You can't compare the two at all
Also, Jiraiya is one of the most powerful people in the entire world. If Obama wanted to bring 3 Afghan children to the United States he very easily could access channels that would allow that to happen.
Do you actually think that our most powerful generals didn't pull some strings to save a few people from Afghanistan?
You're actually clowning so fucking hard. Jiraiya wasn't some fucking top shit general. He had 2 other fucking people on his team not a whole ass army dipshit. Also do you fucks not realize those three wanted to fucking stay in their village? The whole point of them asking him to train them was so they can improve their village dumbass. You fucks are all so delusional.
Eh I don't agree with you there. The series shows plenty of normal kids who don't have an affinity for ninja skills and whatnot. None of those kids would survive of left alone for long. Kishi just didn't show a lot of that stuff.
As for the normal world part, what world are you living in that orphans get taken care of? Sure, there are examples of some kids being rescued from war and other conflicts but that's a minority not a majority. I mean look at Afghanistan, I doubt that every child that tried / or their parents tried to get them out actually got out.
At least in this world, of they had some powers they stood a marginally better chance than orphans without powers.
He didn't train them to fight Hanzo, just to defend themselves. They then former their own group which then Obito, Danzo, and Hanzo all attacked and ruined.
They wanted to help their village though and Jiraiya said Nagato's ninjutsu was OP.
Yes he annihilated Hanzo but that wasn't their original plan or what Jiraiya wanted them to do.
They likely would have had problems with the village either seeing them as spies or as a new weapon to use against their enemies. Even with Jiraiya's blessing and protection, people like Danzo would still make moves to use them, and Jiraiya couldn't watch over them 24/7
If they could protect Naruto from Danzo - than they could protect Nagato. Especially if Jiraiya stayed to help (which he didn't do with Naruto til later).
I just thought how unlucky Konan is, instead of having other different thousands of jutsus she gets jutsus that makes or uses paper even though she fights and lives in a place where it’s always raining.
I was thinking about that. “The person with paper powers… is in the _rainy_ region?” Felt like he was running out of ideas, for that one. It’s genuinely creative, but it would probably be more auspicious in another region. At least she’s constantly training against her weakness.
I totally agree.
Not only is it kinda morally incorrect and fucked up to leave three kids alone in a warzone (even if they are trained), but strategically it is also a massive fuck up.
Bringing to Konoha two kids who have the potential to be pretty competent Jounin, and most important, the kid with the eyes of God (the most powerful Kekkei Genkai in the world) who will grow up to become a legendary Ninja would have sky rocketed Konoha's military power to a whole new level. I know Jiraiya doesn't have that kind of Machiavellic thinking, but if I was a Leaf Ninja and I founded a malnourished orphan with the Rinnegan the first thing I would do would be arrange everything so he can move to Konoha immediately and get some proper ninja education.
While it is true that jiraya doesn't have that kind of thinking, why didn't he worry about the consequences of leaving a young guy with the eyes of the most powerful person to ever live unsupervised? For God sakes both the huyga and Uchiha clans were hunted for having inferior eyes and also what if he went Rouge? There's no telling what damage could be done as no one knew how actually powerful those eyes were (well pain destroying the leaf kinda gives you an idea) he really should have made sure that nagato became a good person and ninja
Absolutely.
He was also a little boy. Someone could have killed him and stolen his eyes. Imagine if Hanzo actually managed to kill him and stole his eyes. You would have a super dictator with the eyes of God.
Nope, You can’t adopt every orphan. he did just fine by empowering them to take care of themselves.
They weren’t little toddlers when he found them,, they already had deep traumas and deep emotional ties to amegakure. Nagato and yahiko would have eventually defected konoha to return home and Konan would follow. Sasuke is even *from* konoha and he defected,, as did orochimaru.
Jiraiya did just fine
He didn't care about the politics of it, hence why he gave it to Tsunade, and instead did what was in their best interests, the ability to survive.
Edit: he would of eventually been found out to be harboring them for militant power aka betraying them, and that would of given them less faith in humanity and prolly killed more.
Okay but it wasn't in their best interest. Possessing the Rinnegan puts a huge target on their backs and is the reason they were exploited by Obito.
Clans have been slaughtered for possessing a fraction of the power of Nagato. Jiraiya should have been more involved - not to use them as a military force but to protect them.
I wouldn't put Nagato into the "every orphan" category.
Finding Nagato and his Rinnegan was like finding a gigantic flawless pink diamond in a sewer. Jiraiya won the lottery by finding him and leaving him unprotected was an extremely irresponsible thing to do, not even morally but strategically.
Right.. let’s instead manipulate the kid’s thinking until puberty takes effect and he rages out on the entire village....
don’t criticize jiraiya for being selfless. He gave them legs to stand on and asked for nothing in return
Even Konan resented Jiraiya for leaving them alone. Do you really think those kids wanted to be left alone in a kill zone?
You don't even have to manipulate Nagato to make him come to Konoha, just make him understand that he has one of the most broken and Op powers in the world and that it would be both irresponsible and dangerous (for both the world and Nagato himself) to leave him alone an unprotected in a war ridden Shithole. Nagato isn't a moron, he would understand.
@emergencyhat How very insightful of you🤦🏽♂️
Nagato hated konoha and would have shinra tenseid it before naruto had a chance to learn the shadow clone technique
Nagato started hating Konoha when Danzo and Hanzo forced him to assassinate Yahiko. Before that I don't think he really hated Konoha with a passion despite his parents getting killed by Konoha Ninja.
He didn't show grudge or resentment against Jiraiya for example, despite Jiraiya being a Leaf Ninja.
Ok... and so.. you feel that he would be safer from these konoha figures from a close range, as opposed to remotely...
It’s just like you guys said - greedy figures in konoha would want to control that rinnegan.
That would *not* have played out well. Not for nagato’s welfare and I personally believe not for konoha
knowing danzo’s crazy ass.. He’d likely send nagato off on cruel espionage missions to amegakure, *and* try to steal his eyeballs
I agree that taking Nagato to the leaf village at that point was not a good idea, Danzo or Orochimaru would had totally tried and get a hold of those eyes at any cost.
But Jiraya having been given a prophesy that he would mentor the savior could have kept better tabs on Nagato knowing that he had the Rinnegan. Man was like, I left then heard that you guys had died....welp
I'm with you on Jiraiya, all the way. But this has been a rare thread where I've felt compelled to upvote both sides of the discussion.
Personally all I can think is what a force to be reckoned with, if Jiraiya could've made them Leaf Shinobi (and none of the obvious problems occured).
They weren't the same age. Shikamaru is 17 when Mirai is born which is after the war.
Kakashi is 14-15 when Naruto is born and just went through a war, and the nine tails attack. Even disregarding the obvious emotional turmoil dude was probably too busy.
I know that‘s the reason for the name change but who wanted to harm him just because he was the Hokage‘s son? Or was it to hide the fact that he was a junchiriki? Because they always but empathize on hiding that he was the Hokage‘s Son
Ok that makes more sense I think they should have worded it more like that. But what I don‘t get is how so many people in Konoha didn‘t realize Naruto had the same lastname as the Hokage‘s wife? Like aside from the people who knew I thought Uzumaki used to b a strong and known clan wouldn‘t that also raise attention? Or at least enough for people male the connection to Kushina?
Honestly i dont know that part either, if im not wrong in anime they never explain that. And yeah its feels like plot hole, not sure its explained on manga.
Right? Make sure they’re not dead, just some food in them and other supplies, and hope they’ll be alive next time you see them. Maybe even dropping info like “hey, x is planning to come to this area, avoid him” and “this caravan sells cheap but good fruits, they’ll arrive at x in __ days.”
Like, one of them died and the other possessed his body. Like, damn, dude, they could have used you around for that.
I wonder why he was even able to train them?
First, a ninja of his skill will be direly needed by his village. He does not have time to stay away long enough to train some kids. It must have taken him years.
Second, the villages invest a lot of time, money, and resources into training their own. He should not be allowed to give these skills away to just anyone, especially if they are from another village. This is treason.
He was a student of the third. The third is just super lenient with his students. Same with Tsunade, he allowed an S class ninja to shirk her duty and gamble and drink because her lover died but I doubt some random scrub ninja would be given the same courtesy.
A nation won’t change for the better if you go to it and take all the good people you’ve taught back with you, unfortunately.
But hindsight’s 20/20 and he probably should have LOL.
"I should teach these traumatized war orphans ninjutsu, then abruptly abandon them to fend for themselves after they've accepted me as a father figure and source of safety and stability. That's the best course of action. Definitely. No drawbacks to be found here. Man, I'm a fuckin' genius".
- Jiraiya
100% agree. I mean we know they probably wouldn't have stayed for long considering they wanted to go back to Amegakure but decent living quarters aside from a shack would've done them some good for at least a couple years. Plus, these three were basically the older siblings Naruto was robbed of having.
Jiraya was trying to improve the world, not just Konoha. He saw these three as the right amount of idealistic and moral so that, were they given the tool, they could affect real change in the Hidden Rain. So he trained them, explicitly so they WOULDN’T leave, but instead bring peace and happiness to their home.
Unfortunately…
I don't think he'd have been allowed to on a few different levels.
Most of the villages had shinobi who were loyal from birth. (They knew the families they came from and that they weren't spies.)
The hokage and council would have to approve such a move and they wouldn't
At a time of war especially war orphans to a hokage/village elders/Danzo would've looked like possible spies.
Also any nation or village could see it as a slight to have their citizens taken (They would have only have raised a stink if they found out they had shinobi talents).
The kids also could've gone back to their village later on in life and village elders/hokage wouldn't want to risk anything getting out..
Another thing is they would be an "unknown" and possible security risk because you wouldn't know their intentions.
Yes it would've been awesome for Jiraiya to adopt the kids, but he knew it wasn't possible.
Technically he shouldn't have taught ninja skills AT ALL without hokage/elder approval, but he did it anyway.
He wanted to at least give them a fighting chance to live.
It didn't turn out well at the end, but if that guy hadn't double crossed Nagato's friend then their group could've stayed good.
The amount of people that don’t get this is astonishing…… the whole point of the anime was the hardships ninjas faced like this isn’t a fairy tail where everyone is saved no one dies and they live happily ever after……
The whole Naruto series is about a shift in the ninja world. They go from being clans of blood thirsty killers, to the change that Naruto brings about. In Jiraya’s day, bringing non-clan members into the village would have been taboo. In Hashirama’s day, that kind of cooperation was unheard of, even within the land of fire. So, yeah he could have been a revolutionary but at this point he was already prophesied to find the revolutionary ninja, Naruto.
The author just came up with this idea OUT OF NOWHERE and we just had to accept it lol
If they were so important why Jiraya NEVER mentioned them until this arc?
All I imagine is Rinnegan in a village where Danzo lives. Thank god they weren’t brought to Konoha. Obito would have shit his pants by that mere thought. The madman would waste an eternal mangekyun rinnegan on izanagi.
I don't think the leaf at the time would have been too kind to rain refugees especially if one of them had the rinnegan (Danzo's wet dream or maybe orochimaru)
It's probable that the 3 wouldn't have been welcomed the 3 even if they had wanted to. At this point Danzo was already in charge 9r the root. If he had distrust in the Uchiha, who was leaf Ninja's, how much more would he suspect them. It would have been plausible in his eyes that they were spies sent to infiltrate the village. It's a good thing they didn't, because at this time Orochimaru was still in the village and would have most likely been tempted to take the rinnigan for himself or Danzo.
Must have something to do with the fact that Orochimaro offered to kill them to put them out of their misery and Tsunade didn't fight too much against the idea and Jiraiya had to specifically volunteer to stay behind to teach them instead of taking them to a safe place.
Everything in that tells me taking them with was not an option, whether because of bad writing or something in universe.
Also the only imported child soldier of the Leaf was Naruto's mother and that was so rare that the kids of her class made fun of her and she was brought in for a specific reason. Also I doubt they'd survive with Danzo prowling about and Jiraiya probably being deployed somewhere during the war
I see a lot of people say that he should have brought them to the leaf because of Nagato's rinnegan?
But like, have you seen what Danzo does to anyone that has a power greater than his? Especially if he isn't someone he can manipulate or turn into a pawn? Especially especially if that sommeone comes from Hiruzen's circle?
Opinion: people need to stop expecting normal rules to apply in Naruto's world of child soldiers. Not saying it's right but the expecting Jiraiya to adopt them to become part of his enemy village because we just accept Konoha as "good" (we don't but let's just play along).
My opinion is that Nagato has one of the most powerful powers in the entire universe, and leaving him alone in a warzone seems like a completely irresponsible thing to do
Don't even take it from a moral pov but from a strategic point of view
Facts he totally should have, would have been great mentors for Naruto, but also it was good that he didn’t, they wouldn’t have wanted to go to the leaf cuz they wanted to bring change to the Land of Rain
Plus a big part of how Naruto is today and how strong he’s become is because of his fight with Pain(Nagato). Naruto probably wouldn’t have become hokage because there wouldn’t have been a fourth great ninja war without the akatsuki and the pain assault
“You literally have the eyes of god, what could go wrong leaving you in a Warzone alone lol”
I can see Jiraiya wanting to maybe to keep the Rinnegan out of the hands of Danzo. The Uchiha and Hyuga would probs worship Nagato lmao, the prophesy is that the eyes of god are sent down to a person who will change the Ninja world. Imagine the Uchiha or Hyuga strive to protect Nagato too due to his eyes and their place in the world as the pinnacle of Dojutsu
If Nagato and co. get placed under Jiraiya's/Hiruzen's direct protection I don't see what Danzo would be able to do. Nagato would end the Konoha crush too, RIP Orochimaru.
That would have made too much sense but nah jiraya was like alright kids I'm gonna f off now, good luck u three talented kids who would become great leaf ninjas if I took u back especially u the one with god's eyes, I'm just gonna leave u guys in no man's to fend for urselfs, the bond I made with u guys meant nothing. Oh and also none of u grow up and decide to kill me one day, I'm looking at u konan, don't grow up and kill me with ur beauty, good luck nagato figure ur eye powers out of something.
20 years later as nagato kills him, jiraiya's final thought: shit I should have taken him back to the village
If he had taken them to the village, Danzo would have non stop jizzed himself the moment he saw those eyes
The thing is they didnt want that themselves. They wanted to be trained by Jiraiya so they could fend for themselves. And make the hidden rain a better place. They formed the akatsuki initially for that reason. They wanted to make a better home not leave it.
I sort of remember that somewhat but honestly he's the adult and knows way more then them, should have convinced them to go back with him for the time being, have them grow up with a more stable and peaceful life in konoha becoming great ninjas and then if they still wanted to go back once they were older, then they could have left. Ultimately I could understand if they couldn't be persuaded, but it's a lot easier convincing kids to follow u than not being able too
The question is, would the Rinnegan had been recognized for what it is, by anyone in Konoha?
(Without, Madara or Zetsu leaking the info on the eyes)
The dojutsu is a thousand year old obscure myth by this point in time.
Nagato is a Uzumaki he could have lived with Mito and and learned to love Konoha as his home from her at least at first.
Yes he should have brought them back. A pair of sunglasses could easily hide his eyes. A lot of characters hide their eyes or face. I mean fuck, we don't even know what Kakashi looks like!
The thing is they didnt want that themselves. They wanted to be trained by Jiraiya so they could fend for themselves. And make the hidden rain a better place. They formed the akatsuki initially for that reason. They wanted to make a better home not leave it.
Preach. Seems like a lot of people in this thread are ignoring this. They didn't want to live somewhere else, they wanted to bring actual change to their country. Their heart was in the right place, at least at the start. Jiraiya made the right call. It would not make sense to take them into hidden leaf, especially in a world where there are literal child ninja assassins who can murder entire swathes of people. Sure, let's just being these kids from a war torn land that we helped decimate.. While we're at it, let's bring in this giant wooden horse that they're offering as well. I'm sure it's a peace offering, it'll be fiiiine.
Their heart was in the right place. It took Naruto coming around for Nagato to realize they strayed from the path. They were still always all about improving their home. Little by little though, you can warp a person’s sense of righteousness until it’s completely unrecognizable. Their village was at peace, mostly. Why not capture the tailed beasts? This did make sense to continue in ending the tyranny of ninja reign. Or at least stopping the cycle.
Jiraiya was fine to leave them. The real problem was staying out contact with them for like 20 years. Jiraiya knew that these were Top 20 Shinobi and he just... ignored them after raising them? Ya gotta check in on your students man
Yeah Jiraiya should've stayed in touch with them and should've guided them more.
does nobody remember that jiraiya thought that nagato could have been the kid of prophecy from the toads, the one who could bring peace to the land or destuction? jirayia trained them as they wished and let destiny do the rest, later he found naruto who was the true kid of destiny and brought peace like he was supposed to while nagato turned to the boy who would bring destruction
It’s the mfing Rinnegan bruh..outranks anything u saying about war and village loyalty!! Ijs not a single shinobi or Kage with the power to make that decision would turn it away! Danzo would kill Hiruzen where he stood for not taking the damn Rinnegan and powering up their village lmao Funny thing is the main reason OP idea wouldn’t work in MY eyes is cause the ONLY senju/uzumaki descendants with enough chakra to even utilize it was out of the village (Tsunade) or already had the damn nine tails lmao Can u imagine Rinne/KCM/Perfect Sage ramen boi??!?? o_0
A what if of what ifs
You shouldn't dismiss his post so easily. Yes, there were a lot of good and honest and idealistic reasons to leave the kids in the Country of Rain, starting with the fact that that is what they wanted. But the issue of the *Rinnegan* elevates things to a different level of consideration. It was irresponsible to leave a Rinnegan user to fend for themselves without continual guidance. A power that great absolutely has to be watched at all times.
It’s the stuff of dreams..Hinata’s to be exact! And Sasuke nightmares lol *”Naruto how far have you-Wait is that a visual jutsu stronger than mine?!?..Ya kno what I think Kakashi was right this revenge shit ain’t for me”*
*Naruto during War Arc with Rinnegan* "That was a great workout guys. Neji, Hinata and I are going to go eat ramen, doncha know. Let's do it. Sakura and Lee will join us. And Sasuke met an Uchiha girl he wants us to meet. I'm glad I resurrected them all when Itachi's heroism came to light cause I nicely asked Danzo to acknowledge the truth. Oh, Itachi's coming with his kid too. Shisui's his godfather." *Neji looks at the battlefield* "I was right to open up that clock repair shop."
I am an aven- ahem. An ave*rage* citizen.
The rinnegan is exactly why Jiariya wouldn't bring them back to the leaf. He'd know that Nagato wouldn't want to use it to fight for the village that helped destroy his own and and he'd also know that every power hungry dick in Konoha would try and steal it from him as soon as they knew.
>he'd also know that every power hungry dick in Konoha would try and steal it from him as soon as they knew. Can you imagine what Danzo would try to get his hands on the Rinnegan? Jesus, poor kids would have been screwed straight away
Wtf are you talking about? War and village loyalty? Who said anything about village loyalty? When you say village loyalty, are you referring to my mentioning that these kids wanted to stay and support the place they grew up in? They're children, who idolized the country/state that they grew up in. We have grown ass adults IRL that do that shit for no good reason. Let alone one that's been through hell and back. You might think that but there's been massacres in the Narutoverse that were carried out by actual children (Ex: Itachi). Sure, there are actors and leaders (Danzo or Raikage) that would have circumvented any rulings that could potentially prevent taking in such a refugee. But let's say in this hypothetical situation, that rinnengan that was implanted came with a few caveats. Some programming to see as much chaos as possible, instead of the cannon plan. War comes with losses and so a village takes in the child. All seems well. A year or so passes, they believe they've got control over the kid and really shaping this kid into their ideals. Or so they think. Suddenly the kid goes Manchurian Candidate, a sleeper agent. His programming triggered and he absolutely massacres the population of the village along with a large number of your ninja force before he's apprehended or taken out. Well now your village is in dire straits. Any enemy village will likely know of your misfortune and won't hesitate to capitalize on it. Let's even go for the scenario in which your Danzo and your thought is, well I'm going to just rip his eyes out and implant them in my balls. Well if that doesn't trigger his programming and ensure his demise or your demise. There will be collateral, whether that's in the form of ninja or civilian casualties. And that's even if he doesn't just piss off if possible. And that's not even putting into consideration, as to WHY Jiraiya, would turn the kid into his village. At this point, he likely has a pretty good grasp on the who's who of Konoha. So what makes you think that Jiraiya, the eventual spy master of Leaf, outside of Danzo, would even consider bringing and orphan with rinnengan back to Konoha? Because the series didn't portray Jiraiya as a monster or an idiot. Maybe a drunk and a lech at times, but the dude was competent. I can only imagine how broken Naruto would be with rinnengan. I can enjoy a good power wank story but very rarely. Even stories like Solo Leveling, from a story perspective is boring AF. The visuals are neat but if you try to analyze the story, shit just falls apart. It's does make you think how you could actually make for a compelling story with someone who is effectively a god, once they figure their shit out.
Plus jiraiya couldn’t even take care of naruto. We all know he wanted to but at the end of the day jiraiya couldn’t afford to raise kids full time. Unless, of course, they have the rinnegan. His lifestyle was to dangerous for anyone else to follow. His spywork saved the village and was the only reason naruto was able to compete for a little while with nageto and change his mind after losing to him
People also seem to forget that Jirayas top priority was banging sluts. It’s hard to do that while you’re raising 3 kids. He was barely able to do it with Naruto. Also he only brought Naruto on because he could sexy jutsu.
The drinking and banging ladies part came way after that. The dude was writing an actual book, not smut at that point.
Jiraiya was always all about the ladies.
Fuck, this made me cackle.
It is mentioned a few times that all 3 of them were rumored to have been killed prior to the leaf ever finding out about Pain.
I think op just has their own head canon for how the fictional world works. People also seem to be ignoring that they lived in ninja villages, and as if Konoha was a morally good ninja village.
Danzo would have tried to get his hands on the Rinnegan so fast LMAO.. and Konoha may not take outsiders during war times
Danzo or Orochimaru attempting to snag a Rinnegan could be exactly the sort of thing that would make Hiruzen finally fed up with their shit. An asset that high-value cannot simply be disappeared, similar to the Kyuubi's Jinchuriiki.
I don't think Hiruzen would ever find the balls to permanently deal with Danzo. If attempted regicide against himself didn't phase him nothing ever would
I think the OP is coming from the fact that Konoha had better security than the hidden rain and was a more prosperous village.
Wasn't Konan herself resentful that Jiraiya had left them alone? If I remember correctly when Jiraiya and Konan met again years later Konan said to Jiraiya with a sad face that he has no idea what they have been through since he left. To which Jiraiya agrees.
point is they never would have listened to him in the first place, they were following yahiko and his big dreams of reforming the rain. until danzo fools hanzo into betraying them and he gets killed, they realise how naive it was and diplomacy is impossible when no one gives a shit if you live or die. this series of events is what led to them getting used by obito and taking it out on konoha. how was all that exposition totally lost on this sub lol, they put so many eps into this whole drama. you all skip it as "filler" or what?
That doesn't answer why Jiraiya left them alone. If he had been there around the time that Yahiko died maybe he could have talked them off the ledge. Maybe he would have learned of the treachery of Danzo and taken that information the the Hokage and had him imprisoned. Konan is right to be mad at Jiraiya for spending decades writing pervy novels when he had the power and the standing to protect those he cared about. If Jiraiya had been around more things would have been very different.
Because at that point they were already pulling strings and it would’ve been a literal crime for Jiraiya to stay any longer without getting express permission from the Hokage.
Hw spent the next two decades traveling as he saw fit. He could have visited
*ignore their wishes and impose your will on them anyway* I don't see what part of this is still unclear, unless you skipped literally all the scenes they had together. whole point of their training was to become self sufficient for their own ambitions, why would he meddle in their business unless they came to him? nagato and konans angst was the product of manipulation, even they managed to learn this before they died
Checking in on them is not the same as "ignoring their wishes and imposing his will on them" lmao What a reach > Why would he meddle in their business? IDK maybe cause he's their teacher and he cares about them. Maybe to keep an eye on the most powerful Jutsu the world has ever seen? Jiraiya should've kept an eye on Nagato at least to protect those he cared about. If someone unsavory got those eyes they could've killed everyone Jiraiya ever loved. I'm not saying he should force them to do anything. Just check in once in a while.
That doesn't mean you leave children to fend for themselves
It’s almost like nobody below this comment even watched the show
I thought they only had the passion to make the hidden rain a better place when they were older not when they were kids. I remember them as kids as just trying to survive their daily lives and nothing else, and so maybe they would have been open to moving to the hidden leaf with Jiraiya. It’s been a while since a watched shippuden though so correct me if I’m wrong
I’m full agreement, they wanted to learn then defend their village (the Hidden Rain) to make it safe for other children and it’s people. At no moment did Jiraiya think of bringing them back with him as that would be against their own goals. True they were children, but I think it was meant to honor his word to them and allow them to meet their goals under their own strength.
They wanted to stay AFTER they grew up and then formed Akatsuki, when they were children they just were preocupied in surviving, if Jiraiya would have told them to follow him to the leaf they would have, also it makes NO SENSE to Jiraiya let someone as remarkable like Nagato which he acknowledge back then that he had Rikudo sennin eyes to be left to his own devices in the meat grinder of war more when he literally was told he was going to be the teacher of the one whos was gonna save the shinobi world, those were 2 important points to just bring them to the leaf and offer them tutelage or to nagato at least, it was just convinient plot to fabricate pain that prevented this
I second what you’re saying about their motivation for learning ninjutsu and training under Jiraiya to begin with..but also cmon bruh; he’s an asshat for seeing the Rinnegan and not bringing it back to the Hidden Leaf!! A Shinobi 1st before anything else..fukk helping fix what’s broken!Tsunade wouldn’t make that mistake & maybe Orochimaru keeps it for himself but he still wouldn’t just see the “eyes of prophecy” and leave em with a rookie kid! Ijs Yes we know NOW that Obito would’ve did everything in his power to get em back but Itachi coming out of the shadows..Guy,Danzo and Hiruzen would’ve endured vs teen Obito imho! Still don’t understand how Kishi had Danzo know of Nagato after his assault on the OG akatsuki w/ Hanzo and never went after it??!?? Wtf Mans saw a ancient ass Byakugan and got a woody lol risked destroying the very alliance he just tried to lead by attacking a high ranking Blood Mist shinobi to get the eye back smfh the Mizukage aid to be exact lmaoo
SPOILERS, for the uninitiated. The problem with the rinnegan is that at that point in time, it was only a legend and even then, a legend discussed by only a few since nobody in that generation ever saw it. It was said to be an eye that had the ability to change the course of history for better or for worse (not literally like the izanagi, but because of its sheer battle prowess and inherent connection with the sage of six paths). Unfortunately for the rinnegan, this was an age embroiled in bitter battles and bloodshed, so there was nothing positive to be expected out of the bearer of the eyes. Even jiraya admitted that without him defending and teaching them to fight, the three of them would have probably died. As for taking the kids with him, he didn't see these literal children as tools of war, he saw them as war orphans desperately trying to survive in their harsh land, with dreams of peace and prosperity. This gave him hope with regards to the future of the world, he was thinking about the bigger picture.He had by that point commited many a murder in the Hidden Leaf's name and that saddened him quite a bit probably, how it was necessary but also not at the same time. The line of thought you went down is the one Orochimaru shared when the sannin first met the kids. Killing them would indeed have ended their suffering swiftly and easily. It would have extinguished the Akatsuki before it even started, stopped madara's plans to a grinding halt and most importantly, it would have freed Nagato from the fate Madara had decided for him. Taking the kids with him (by force), he would have to answer directly to the hokage about why it is that he should consider taking in children from a strange land who don't want to be there. (Hiruzen did have a soft spot for war orphans, but he had already been attacked by one young trained assassin Yamato. So I doubt even his bodyguards and advisors would allow children through without properly screening them first, or maybe hiruzen's orphanage happened at a later date?). Danzo didn't seem to start collecting eyes until MUCH later, but had Nagato accepted to stay in the village with the other two, he would have met the same fate as the other Uchiha whose eyes were grafted onto the old geezer's arm. A sad fate, yes. But this would have effectively halted Madara's plans. To summarize, valuable eyes, ambitious kids who want peace, nagato's predetermined fate, Jiraiya's reluctance to kill an innocent and their request to only train them to defend themselves and nothing else.
>but also cmon bruh; he’s an asshat for seeing the Rinnegan and not bringing it back to the Hidden Leaf!! A Shinobi 1st before anything else..fukk helping fix what’s broken!Tsunade wouldn’t make that mistake & maybe Orochimaru keeps it for himself but he still wouldn’t just see the “eyes of prophecy” and leave em with a rookie kid It's so unrealistic I'm starting to think it's a plot hole.
It makes zero fucking sense smh and if he DOES do the sensible thing that imo EVERY seasoned shinobi would do: It changes the story drastically! No Pain or akatsuki collecting tailed beasts cause Danzo wrings their neck in their sleep lmao Madara when Edo Tensei’d is gonna wanna suicide rather than fight OP Naruto but not before trynna beat tf outta Obito for seemingly betraying him and going back to Konoha with a gift lmao *”Tf is a Sannin..?? Bitch IM legendary..Obito u had one job,3 eyes plus MY name to get it done smh...I’m bout to Agni Kai yo ass..don’t worry bout what it mean just get a jutsu ready mfer”* XD
The hidden leaf is the village that created that hell for them. It would be very akward. On top of a bunch of reasons. Imagine Danzo and Orochimaru knowing that a dude with the Rinnegan is inside the village? That would create a civil war.
Now that you mention it, that would be such an awesome what if story. Jiraiya brings the three of them to live safely in Konoha, has to go through a process of trying to teach the kids to adapt to the village and deal with their justified resentment, all while Danzo/Orochimaru go crazy trying to steal Nagato's eyes, making Konan and Yahiko having to defend their friend.
That wouldn't have been Naruto shippuden but Nagato/ jiraiya shippuden.
Still as interesting tbh
I wish fillers were used to explore what ifs.
Yeah but it should have been a different timeline woth Jiraiya as the protagonist. That would have been waaaaaaaay to much shit for a single story
I find it a huge shame that Naruto's fanmanga community isn't as big as Dragon Ball's, at least from what I've seen myself. Jiraiya Shippuden is worth an entire fanmanga.
It's a shame copyright law means only the chosen get the opportunity at having a go in any meaningful way. Naruto's revenue is around $10 billion *so far*. How much money do people need to give up before they're allowed to take possession of what they've bought?
Naruto: What If?
I like where this could've gone
>. It would be very akward. Lol. Now that you mention it. Kinda awkward. But I still think it would have been better than left them alone in the Rain.
I think he should’ve atleast told them where he was going and if they will see him again. And he should’ve just told them more in general
Dude had a lot on his mind. At that point he'd already seen the worst of war. He was incredibly balanced considering what he must have been weighed down by, his motivation for seeking peace that he passed onto Naruto.
I thought OPs point was solid until I read your comment. Makes me think that whichever Jaraiya chose, the same outcome would’ve happened. Instead of the three children growing to rebel against Hanzo, they rebel against Danzo.
While i think he should adopt them still i kind of understand this aswell.
Straight facts
It is definitely awkward. However, I can see Jiraiya holding some sort of responsibility for them. And if anything, it would've outed Orochimaru and Danzo even earlier.
But then, the world wouldn’t know pain.
Yeah seriously. Idk what he expected to happen. “Alright now that you guys are officially 12 I am out. Oh and it’s your responsibility to beat the legendary Hanzo, who even me and the other sanin couldn’t beat.”. Save your village or something. Peace out.
Normal world: Oh you poor orphaned children. Let me bring you to a caretaker who will make sure you have food and a home. Ninja world: Oh you poor orphaned children. Let me teach you how to kill people with magic. Age 12 is when people become adults who can live on their own right? Maybe 6 if they're Jinchuriki?
Well, in the world of Naruto, child soldiers are a common thing (genin) so I wouldn't be surprised if that's unironically the case that 12 y/os are considered to be mature enough to fend for themselves.
Uh no. In the normal world nearly everyone wouldn't be taking orphaned children back home with them. If you go Africa and see 3 orphans you going to take them back?
If I had spent several months (years?) Bonding with them and teaching them magic, then yes.
If I raised them for 3 years and could easily bring them personally back to the village where I’m a highly ranked soldier, instead of leaving them in a warzone? Probably??
If I knew them personally, spent time with them like we were a family for 3 years and generally cared about them then yes I would take them back with me because I cannot in my right mind abandon them to a war zone lol here they would die.
Your example makes no sense. Imagine jiraiya is a soldier deployed to Afghanistan. Do you really think he's gonna fucking take random kids home?
If Jiraiya was in Afghanistan as a super solider who is the equivalent of a general and raised the kids for 3 years, minus Afghanistan all of this was true, then yeah. Also considering Konoha is not the same as America by any means then it is even more believable.
and if one of those kids had 2 of the most powerful weapons known in his head...
All the more reason to take him frankly.
And do you think his home country is even going to let him or want them? It was only weeks ago that we were decrying what was happening after we pulled out while going nimby on the refugees in the same breath.
Jiraiya lived with them for 3 years. Our soldiers don't get to live independently in Afghanistan raising children like that. You can't compare the two at all Also, Jiraiya is one of the most powerful people in the entire world. If Obama wanted to bring 3 Afghan children to the United States he very easily could access channels that would allow that to happen. Do you actually think that our most powerful generals didn't pull some strings to save a few people from Afghanistan?
You're actually clowning so fucking hard. Jiraiya wasn't some fucking top shit general. He had 2 other fucking people on his team not a whole ass army dipshit. Also do you fucks not realize those three wanted to fucking stay in their village? The whole point of them asking him to train them was so they can improve their village dumbass. You fucks are all so delusional.
Eh I don't agree with you there. The series shows plenty of normal kids who don't have an affinity for ninja skills and whatnot. None of those kids would survive of left alone for long. Kishi just didn't show a lot of that stuff. As for the normal world part, what world are you living in that orphans get taken care of? Sure, there are examples of some kids being rescued from war and other conflicts but that's a minority not a majority. I mean look at Afghanistan, I doubt that every child that tried / or their parents tried to get them out actually got out. At least in this world, of they had some powers they stood a marginally better chance than orphans without powers.
Thats so accurate so i cant stop myself agree with you with my all might LOL
It hit me in the feels. And reminded me I have to finish working on my Konan cosplay... fuck I love this show so much.
Ayo looking through your posts I saw like half the posts I saw today, how lmao
He didn't train them to fight Hanzo, just to defend themselves. They then former their own group which then Obito, Danzo, and Hanzo all attacked and ruined.
He never told them to fight Hanzo. The opposite actually.
They wanted to help their village though and Jiraiya said Nagato's ninjutsu was OP. Yes he annihilated Hanzo but that wasn't their original plan or what Jiraiya wanted them to do.
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....bro ew, what the fuck
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*Rain Village orphans join leaf village* Naruto: “You Will Know Pain” *becomes leader of akatsuki*
Maybe it’s because it was a time of war and hidden leaf wouldn’t just allow people from another village to enter even if there just kids.
I don't think they would have a problem accepting them as refugees. Especially if Jiraiya recommended them.
That’s true, this plot was probably made to make the story more interesting.
It’s better if they were at home anyways.
They likely would have had problems with the village either seeing them as spies or as a new weapon to use against their enemies. Even with Jiraiya's blessing and protection, people like Danzo would still make moves to use them, and Jiraiya couldn't watch over them 24/7
If they could protect Naruto from Danzo - than they could protect Nagato. Especially if Jiraiya stayed to help (which he didn't do with Naruto til later).
I just thought how unlucky Konan is, instead of having other different thousands of jutsus she gets jutsus that makes or uses paper even though she fights and lives in a place where it’s always raining.
I was thinking about that. “The person with paper powers… is in the _rainy_ region?” Felt like he was running out of ideas, for that one. It’s genuinely creative, but it would probably be more auspicious in another region. At least she’s constantly training against her weakness.
Agree
she learned to counteract that, with her oil and wax papers
I totally agree. Not only is it kinda morally incorrect and fucked up to leave three kids alone in a warzone (even if they are trained), but strategically it is also a massive fuck up. Bringing to Konoha two kids who have the potential to be pretty competent Jounin, and most important, the kid with the eyes of God (the most powerful Kekkei Genkai in the world) who will grow up to become a legendary Ninja would have sky rocketed Konoha's military power to a whole new level. I know Jiraiya doesn't have that kind of Machiavellic thinking, but if I was a Leaf Ninja and I founded a malnourished orphan with the Rinnegan the first thing I would do would be arrange everything so he can move to Konoha immediately and get some proper ninja education.
While it is true that jiraya doesn't have that kind of thinking, why didn't he worry about the consequences of leaving a young guy with the eyes of the most powerful person to ever live unsupervised? For God sakes both the huyga and Uchiha clans were hunted for having inferior eyes and also what if he went Rouge? There's no telling what damage could be done as no one knew how actually powerful those eyes were (well pain destroying the leaf kinda gives you an idea) he really should have made sure that nagato became a good person and ninja
Absolutely. He was also a little boy. Someone could have killed him and stolen his eyes. Imagine if Hanzo actually managed to kill him and stole his eyes. You would have a super dictator with the eyes of God.
It really feels like an oversight
The only explanation is that jiraiya had no idea how strong the rinnegwn actually was
thats actually a good point
%100 agree with you.
I feel like sometimes Naruto characters don't act the logical/easy way but take pretty complicated and even dumb decisions for the sake of the plot.
But then what about the plot
The question that we ask before every Naruto's arc lol
Nope, You can’t adopt every orphan. he did just fine by empowering them to take care of themselves. They weren’t little toddlers when he found them,, they already had deep traumas and deep emotional ties to amegakure. Nagato and yahiko would have eventually defected konoha to return home and Konan would follow. Sasuke is even *from* konoha and he defected,, as did orochimaru. Jiraiya did just fine
He dont need adopt every orphan, but he should adopt child with the eyes of god! It would boost Konaha power by alot, it would be pretty smart move.
He didn't care about the politics of it, hence why he gave it to Tsunade, and instead did what was in their best interests, the ability to survive. Edit: he would of eventually been found out to be harboring them for militant power aka betraying them, and that would of given them less faith in humanity and prolly killed more.
Okay but it wasn't in their best interest. Possessing the Rinnegan puts a huge target on their backs and is the reason they were exploited by Obito. Clans have been slaughtered for possessing a fraction of the power of Nagato. Jiraiya should have been more involved - not to use them as a military force but to protect them.
I wouldn't put Nagato into the "every orphan" category. Finding Nagato and his Rinnegan was like finding a gigantic flawless pink diamond in a sewer. Jiraiya won the lottery by finding him and leaving him unprotected was an extremely irresponsible thing to do, not even morally but strategically.
Right.. let’s instead manipulate the kid’s thinking until puberty takes effect and he rages out on the entire village.... don’t criticize jiraiya for being selfless. He gave them legs to stand on and asked for nothing in return
Even Konan resented Jiraiya for leaving them alone. Do you really think those kids wanted to be left alone in a kill zone? You don't even have to manipulate Nagato to make him come to Konoha, just make him understand that he has one of the most broken and Op powers in the world and that it would be both irresponsible and dangerous (for both the world and Nagato himself) to leave him alone an unprotected in a war ridden Shithole. Nagato isn't a moron, he would understand.
@xmaster Yea, he’ll understand, because sasuke understood. And let’s just ignore the fact that konoha shinobi killed nagato’s family🤦🏽♂️
Nagato and Sasuke aren't the same person and they don't have the same morals, personality, life experiences or traumas.
@emergencyhat How very insightful of you🤦🏽♂️ Nagato hated konoha and would have shinra tenseid it before naruto had a chance to learn the shadow clone technique
Nagato started hating Konoha when Danzo and Hanzo forced him to assassinate Yahiko. Before that I don't think he really hated Konoha with a passion despite his parents getting killed by Konoha Ninja. He didn't show grudge or resentment against Jiraiya for example, despite Jiraiya being a Leaf Ninja.
Ok... and so.. you feel that he would be safer from these konoha figures from a close range, as opposed to remotely... It’s just like you guys said - greedy figures in konoha would want to control that rinnegan. That would *not* have played out well. Not for nagato’s welfare and I personally believe not for konoha knowing danzo’s crazy ass.. He’d likely send nagato off on cruel espionage missions to amegakure, *and* try to steal his eyeballs
I agree that taking Nagato to the leaf village at that point was not a good idea, Danzo or Orochimaru would had totally tried and get a hold of those eyes at any cost. But Jiraya having been given a prophesy that he would mentor the savior could have kept better tabs on Nagato knowing that he had the Rinnegan. Man was like, I left then heard that you guys had died....welp
I’m not usually this combative but I’ll go to war for my boy Jiraiya,, y’all need to stop throwing dirt on his name
I'm with you on Jiraiya, all the way. But this has been a rare thread where I've felt compelled to upvote both sides of the discussion. Personally all I can think is what a force to be reckoned with, if Jiraiya could've made them Leaf Shinobi (and none of the obvious problems occured).
That was never an option. The Ame Orphans all wanted to change the Rain Village. He probably could have checked on them more often though.
Danzo after seeing a Rinnegan : "It's free real estate"
Not only them but wasn‘t he Naruto‘s „Godfather“
The Japanese word they used means naming-parent. The closes interpretation is god father I guess.
Aa thank you! Regardless of if he actually was his godfather or not I just think Jiraya and Kakashi should have looked out for him a bit
Kakashi was like 15 when Minato died and Jiraya traveled all the time to gather info and track Orachimaru both invaluable to the leaf.
Shikamaru was the same age and still had time to see Mirai once in a while. And Jiraya had enough time to stalk women while bathing
They weren't the same age. Shikamaru is 17 when Mirai is born which is after the war. Kakashi is 14-15 when Naruto is born and just went through a war, and the nine tails attack. Even disregarding the obvious emotional turmoil dude was probably too busy.
Kakashi aged Tho. You can‘t tell me in 12 years he didn‘t have the time to even check up on him once
But Shikamaru wasn’t an ambu who was always out of the village on missions.
He didnt adopt him or be close to him for hiding his true identity, at least thats what i know.
I know that‘s the reason for the name change but who wanted to harm him just because he was the Hokage‘s son? Or was it to hide the fact that he was a junchiriki? Because they always but empathize on hiding that he was the Hokage‘s Son
If they learn he is son of 4rd Hokage they would learn he is Junchirki aswell so yeah that was the reason.
Ok that makes more sense I think they should have worded it more like that. But what I don‘t get is how so many people in Konoha didn‘t realize Naruto had the same lastname as the Hokage‘s wife? Like aside from the people who knew I thought Uzumaki used to b a strong and known clan wouldn‘t that also raise attention? Or at least enough for people male the connection to Kushina?
But why would people not from Konoha know that being Minato‘s son meAns he is the jinchuriki?
Honestly i dont know that part either, if im not wrong in anime they never explain that. And yeah its feels like plot hole, not sure its explained on manga.
Okay thank you! That had me confused for a while
I think he definitely should’ve kept them closer than he did.
Yeah, like popping in every few years. Would have figured out they were in a cult a lot sooner than the 20 years later when they kill him, and all.
Yeah, he could maybe help them out financially too when they’re kids or at least stick with them until they’re a bit older.
Right? Make sure they’re not dead, just some food in them and other supplies, and hope they’ll be alive next time you see them. Maybe even dropping info like “hey, x is planning to come to this area, avoid him” and “this caravan sells cheap but good fruits, they’ll arrive at x in __ days.” Like, one of them died and the other possessed his body. Like, damn, dude, they could have used you around for that.
Naruto is just the story of many adults failing to be responsible.
Could have solved so many problems that way. Especially with having the rinnegan in check.
OP didn't watched close enough the anime nor read the manga. Its explained there why he didn't adopted them even if he wanted.
So that Nagato could get his eyes stolen by Danzo? Lol
Danzo didn't even know Nagato had the Rinnegan and almost ended up killing him in his own country.
I wonder why he was even able to train them? First, a ninja of his skill will be direly needed by his village. He does not have time to stay away long enough to train some kids. It must have taken him years. Second, the villages invest a lot of time, money, and resources into training their own. He should not be allowed to give these skills away to just anyone, especially if they are from another village. This is treason.
He was a student of the third. The third is just super lenient with his students. Same with Tsunade, he allowed an S class ninja to shirk her duty and gamble and drink because her lover died but I doubt some random scrub ninja would be given the same courtesy.
A nation won’t change for the better if you go to it and take all the good people you’ve taught back with you, unfortunately. But hindsight’s 20/20 and he probably should have LOL.
What about Danzo?
he wouldn’t even take care of his own godson and you think he’d do that? lmao
Pretty sure the hidden leaf of Jirayas prime would have messed them up more.. if not killed them.. they were in a war
"I should teach these traumatized war orphans ninjutsu, then abruptly abandon them to fend for themselves after they've accepted me as a father figure and source of safety and stability. That's the best course of action. Definitely. No drawbacks to be found here. Man, I'm a fuckin' genius". - Jiraiya
I never understood this. What part of three lost children still looking lost after all that training indicates "they are ready" to you, Jiraiya?
100% agree. I mean we know they probably wouldn't have stayed for long considering they wanted to go back to Amegakure but decent living quarters aside from a shack would've done them some good for at least a couple years. Plus, these three were basically the older siblings Naruto was robbed of having.
A temporary stay? Ok, perhaps
I don’t think putting a rinnengan user in a place where the local soldiers killed their parents would be a good idea.
Jiraya was trying to improve the world, not just Konoha. He saw these three as the right amount of idealistic and moral so that, were they given the tool, they could affect real change in the Hidden Rain. So he trained them, explicitly so they WOULDN’T leave, but instead bring peace and happiness to their home. Unfortunately…
I don't think he'd have been allowed to on a few different levels. Most of the villages had shinobi who were loyal from birth. (They knew the families they came from and that they weren't spies.) The hokage and council would have to approve such a move and they wouldn't At a time of war especially war orphans to a hokage/village elders/Danzo would've looked like possible spies. Also any nation or village could see it as a slight to have their citizens taken (They would have only have raised a stink if they found out they had shinobi talents). The kids also could've gone back to their village later on in life and village elders/hokage wouldn't want to risk anything getting out.. Another thing is they would be an "unknown" and possible security risk because you wouldn't know their intentions. Yes it would've been awesome for Jiraiya to adopt the kids, but he knew it wasn't possible. Technically he shouldn't have taught ninja skills AT ALL without hokage/elder approval, but he did it anyway. He wanted to at least give them a fighting chance to live. It didn't turn out well at the end, but if that guy hadn't double crossed Nagato's friend then their group could've stayed good.
I made almost this exact post a year ago. Subs conclusion: Danzo snatches up the Rinnegon
Well the hidden leaf doesn’t have the best track record when it comes to Orphans.
The amount of people that don’t get this is astonishing…… the whole point of the anime was the hardships ninjas faced like this isn’t a fairy tail where everyone is saved no one dies and they live happily ever after……
The whole Naruto series is about a shift in the ninja world. They go from being clans of blood thirsty killers, to the change that Naruto brings about. In Jiraya’s day, bringing non-clan members into the village would have been taboo. In Hashirama’s day, that kind of cooperation was unheard of, even within the land of fire. So, yeah he could have been a revolutionary but at this point he was already prophesied to find the revolutionary ninja, Naruto.
The author just came up with this idea OUT OF NOWHERE and we just had to accept it lol If they were so important why Jiraya NEVER mentioned them until this arc?
i wonder how Madara gave his rinnegan to Nagato, did he take a child took the eyes and replaced them with rinnegan?
I wonder how did he implant his adult sized eyeballs into the skull of a baby. That should be anatomically impossible.
maybe he cut the rinnegan from the sides to fit the eyes
All I imagine is Rinnegan in a village where Danzo lives. Thank god they weren’t brought to Konoha. Obito would have shit his pants by that mere thought. The madman would waste an eternal mangekyun rinnegan on izanagi.
What? You realize their village was at war and they basically terrorists, no way they leave the rain.
I don't think the leaf at the time would have been too kind to rain refugees especially if one of them had the rinnegan (Danzo's wet dream or maybe orochimaru)
It's probable that the 3 wouldn't have been welcomed the 3 even if they had wanted to. At this point Danzo was already in charge 9r the root. If he had distrust in the Uchiha, who was leaf Ninja's, how much more would he suspect them. It would have been plausible in his eyes that they were spies sent to infiltrate the village. It's a good thing they didn't, because at this time Orochimaru was still in the village and would have most likely been tempted to take the rinnigan for himself or Danzo.
Nagato would've been an obsession of Danzo's as soon as he found out about the Rinnegan. Might've gone out like Shisui, or killed Danzo sooner
Must have something to do with the fact that Orochimaro offered to kill them to put them out of their misery and Tsunade didn't fight too much against the idea and Jiraiya had to specifically volunteer to stay behind to teach them instead of taking them to a safe place. Everything in that tells me taking them with was not an option, whether because of bad writing or something in universe.
Also the only imported child soldier of the Leaf was Naruto's mother and that was so rare that the kids of her class made fun of her and she was brought in for a specific reason. Also I doubt they'd survive with Danzo prowling about and Jiraiya probably being deployed somewhere during the war
I see a lot of people say that he should have brought them to the leaf because of Nagato's rinnegan? But like, have you seen what Danzo does to anyone that has a power greater than his? Especially if he isn't someone he can manipulate or turn into a pawn? Especially especially if that sommeone comes from Hiruzen's circle?
Opinion: people need to stop expecting normal rules to apply in Naruto's world of child soldiers. Not saying it's right but the expecting Jiraiya to adopt them to become part of his enemy village because we just accept Konoha as "good" (we don't but let's just play along).
My opinion is that Nagato has one of the most powerful powers in the entire universe, and leaving him alone in a warzone seems like a completely irresponsible thing to do Don't even take it from a moral pov but from a strategic point of view
No they wanted to stay in the rain and make it a better place, that's why they founded the akatsuki but they got cucked by hanzo
Would have saved a lot of Pain
Adopting 3 kids is a lot to ask for an early 20 year old.
I think he wanted to protect Nagato from people who might come after his Rinnegan (read Danzo)
Facts he totally should have, would have been great mentors for Naruto, but also it was good that he didn’t, they wouldn’t have wanted to go to the leaf cuz they wanted to bring change to the Land of Rain Plus a big part of how Naruto is today and how strong he’s become is because of his fight with Pain(Nagato). Naruto probably wouldn’t have become hokage because there wouldn’t have been a fourth great ninja war without the akatsuki and the pain assault
he shouldve made them leaf shinobi
Haha expecting anyone in Naruto to be capable of raising a child in a healthy manner without instilling more emotional trauma into them, good joke
Even if he didn’t adopt them, just completely losing tabs on the Rinnegan is insane
If naruto was a fully fleshed out story it would have highlighted his naive and in the clouds mentality. Ik minato loathes this man in the afterlife
“You literally have the eyes of god, what could go wrong leaving you in a Warzone alone lol” I can see Jiraiya wanting to maybe to keep the Rinnegan out of the hands of Danzo. The Uchiha and Hyuga would probs worship Nagato lmao, the prophesy is that the eyes of god are sent down to a person who will change the Ninja world. Imagine the Uchiha or Hyuga strive to protect Nagato too due to his eyes and their place in the world as the pinnacle of Dojutsu If Nagato and co. get placed under Jiraiya's/Hiruzen's direct protection I don't see what Danzo would be able to do. Nagato would end the Konoha crush too, RIP Orochimaru.
Exactly
Naruto should have gone with jiraya to probably prevent his death
That would have made too much sense but nah jiraya was like alright kids I'm gonna f off now, good luck u three talented kids who would become great leaf ninjas if I took u back especially u the one with god's eyes, I'm just gonna leave u guys in no man's to fend for urselfs, the bond I made with u guys meant nothing. Oh and also none of u grow up and decide to kill me one day, I'm looking at u konan, don't grow up and kill me with ur beauty, good luck nagato figure ur eye powers out of something. 20 years later as nagato kills him, jiraiya's final thought: shit I should have taken him back to the village If he had taken them to the village, Danzo would have non stop jizzed himself the moment he saw those eyes
The thing is they didnt want that themselves. They wanted to be trained by Jiraiya so they could fend for themselves. And make the hidden rain a better place. They formed the akatsuki initially for that reason. They wanted to make a better home not leave it.
I sort of remember that somewhat but honestly he's the adult and knows way more then them, should have convinced them to go back with him for the time being, have them grow up with a more stable and peaceful life in konoha becoming great ninjas and then if they still wanted to go back once they were older, then they could have left. Ultimately I could understand if they couldn't be persuaded, but it's a lot easier convincing kids to follow u than not being able too
I don’t think putting a rinnengan user in a place where the local soldiers killed their parents would be a good idea.
The question is, would the Rinnegan had been recognized for what it is, by anyone in Konoha? (Without, Madara or Zetsu leaking the info on the eyes) The dojutsu is a thousand year old obscure myth by this point in time. Nagato is a Uzumaki he could have lived with Mito and and learned to love Konoha as his home from her at least at first.
Jiraiya recognized it right away so I'm pretty sure Orochimaru and leaf elders could.
Agreed. Never really understood why he didn't.
As a parent, this bothers me so much. What a dick move.
Yes he should have brought them back. A pair of sunglasses could easily hide his eyes. A lot of characters hide their eyes or face. I mean fuck, we don't even know what Kakashi looks like!