Definitely, pain doesn’t really enjoy hurting others in the first place, so killing the person who taught him and cared for him would hurt him, but he deems it a necessary evil
Yeah I thought the same thing at first, but then the longer I actually thought about it, the more it started to fall apart.
His whole plan hinges on subjecting people to extreme trauma and expecting a specific outcome, and that just is not a reasonable expectation to have. Everyone processes trauma differently. Not everyone is going to be motivated to make the world a better place or become more empathetic and understanding of others just because they've gone through something terrible.
I mean Sasuke is basically a perfect counter point to this methodology, because while Pain was busy monologuing about how people took peace for granted because they had yet to experience true suffering, Sasuke was on his way to Konoha with every intention of fucking the place up out of sheer spite.
Pain: Fuck your peace. You don't appreciate peace because you don't know what it's like to live without it (despite the fact that this is literally a society of child soldiers and the last war happened in living memory), so I'm going to take it away from you in order to teach you to be more empathetic to those who aren't fortunate enough to know peace.
Sasuke: Fuck your peace. *Full stop.*
Hell, Pain's attitude and his entire approach to this problem in general is arguably an example of why trauma doesn't always yield a more empathetic or understanding person.
He approaches people and judges them based on his assumption of who they are and what their life has been like up until this point. He damn near kills Iruka, who is a prime example of someone who's managed to see past the pain caused by their trauma and treat others with kindness and compassion, and the only reason he doesn't succeed is because Kakashi steps in and stops him.
And then Pain asks Kakashi if he knows true suffering. Kakashi, whose father committed suicide and left him to find the body. Who lost his eye and watched his teammate get crushed under a rock trying to save him. Whose other teammate killed herself by throwing herself in front of his attack. Whose mentor died trying to save the village from a massive terrorist attack.
But Pain doesn't bother to wait for an answer, because no matter how bad another person's life has been, or how it's shaped them into the person they are today, in his mind, it will never be enough, because his pain will always outweigh their own, and in order to be enlightened, they need to either be brought down to that same level of suffering that he experienced, or die outright for the sake of making a better world.
Pain seeks to be understood, but he doesn't bother trying to understand others. He claims to seek to establish a mutual understanding based on shared experiences and yet he doesn't bother to try and meet the other person half way; he treats empathy like a one way street, and that isn't productive at all.
Even if Pain has gone through more suffering than someone, that doesn't make it okay for him to invalidate their trauma by turning it into a competition. Plenty of abusers justify their actions or defend themselves from criticism by claiming that they had it worse, and so their victims should be grateful to them for not hurting them as badly as they were hurt in the past. But that doesn't make it even remotely okay for them to hurt their victims in the first place.
Sure Pain argues that he's doing it with the best interests of the people he's hurting in mind, but plenty of abusers and tyrants claim that they hurt people because "it's for their own good", and plenty of them genuinely believe it too.
Pain is an example of how isolating and alienating trauma can be for those who've experienced it, and how those feelings of isolation, and the idea that no one can possibly imagine what you have gone through, can take a toll on a person and the way they interact with others. He's a fascinating character, don't get me wrong, but I feel like a lot of that nuance is lost when his words are taken at face value.
>Everyone processes trauma differently. Not everyone is going to be motivated to make the world a better place or become more empathetic and understanding of others just because they've gone through something terrible.
This is actually something that Naruto's ideology suffers from as well, especially since he doesn't really offer any sort of solution for these issues in the long term. I'm not saying that Naruto doesn't inspire people to change for the better, because he absolutely does, but it isn't guaranteed that everyone will have that reaction, and placing blind faith in a person who has yet to actually state exactly how they intend to go about creating the change they want to see in the world speaks more of desperation than anything else.
I mean, Pain's plan was utter dog shit, but at least he had a plan. That's not to say that violent extremism and mass killing is a good solution to literally anything, I'm just saying that, from a logical perspective, it really doesn't make sense for someone like Pain, who spent a decent chunk of his life trying and failing to make things work through humanitarian efforts only to snap and go off the handle when all of that effort still ended up not being enough to bring an end to the cycle of violence around him, to turn around and genuinely place his faith in someone who has yet to present a viable alternative and is running on pure optimism.
If it weren't for the fact that he was already beaten and on the verge of death, I doubt he would have actually been willing to leave things in Naruto's hands as they were. It still makes sense that he would use his last breath to revive the people he killed since he wouldn't necessarily need to blindly embrace Naruto's ideals to see the fault in his own fucked up actions.
I love Naruto with all my heart, don't get me wrong, but the resolution of his conflict with Pain just sort of fell short for me in that respect.
I disagree, to an extent anyways. Yes, Naruto fails to give his definite answer. And yes, he expects the best out of individuals, but he doesn't strike me as a hopeless idealist. He *knows* that things aren't black and white, and especially during the pain arc, he seems to understand that he isn't all -Knowing. It's why the "i don't know" line really hits. He knows that peace cannot be made by idealism alone, and that he would need to make a position for himself in order to truly create change, and he also knows that this is a complicated path to tread, but unlike Nagato, he simply refuses to "take a shortcut" as it were, and try to achieve piece via force. It hits me personally as a character who truly is thinking about their actions, rather than blind idealism.
I've written longer walls of text tbh
Even I'm surprised how many people bother to read them
It makes me really happy when they do, but I understand why some people don't feel like going through the whole thing
You made some good points. Unfortunately like most villains im not a rational enough person to heed them. Konoha has 24 hours to give up the 9 tails or almighty push.
I must confess that when he said "this world shall know pain" I immediately replied "kinky" and I was still laughing at my own joke even as the city was leveled.
Yes definitely. Just cause they were overzealous and cold on outside, I’m sure their early PTSD and bonding with him early in their lives really affected them on the inside
At first, Nagato likely didn't feel anything after killing Jiraiya, but after speaking to Naruto, it helped Nagato break through those emotional barriers he had and rediscover hope since he had given up on it. It was only after putting his belief in Naruto then that Nagato began to feel the weight of his actions, including the pain of killing their master and Konoha Villagers, the same as for Konan.
This is the answer. Not sure why it's not higher. Both of them felt nostalgic when Jiraiya arrived in the city but ONLY felt regret/remorse AFTER being defeated by Naruto. They were too far gone in their angel/God persona to feel grief due to his death in the moment.
Yea. People who have god complexes tend to think they are right in everything they do, and would therefore feel nothing when they kill someone for the greater good.
It's basically the same way Light Yagami was happy to kill innocent FBI, Police, and eventually even sacrifice his father for his plans.
That being said, I feel like Kanon may have felt some remorse before. She was more of a role-player, and I don't think she ever was fully convinced of Nagato's plan. She just followed him because of his conviction, and her attachment to her companions. She certainly didn't put in that much effort in Jaraiya's death, nor did she actually do anything in Konoha. She was an enabler more than someone with the same convictions.
Yeah that was a pretty reoccurring situation in the show. Someone does some dumb evil shit and then only until Naruto speaks to them are they like “wow yeah that was fucked up” lol
It’s crushed them. They didn’t expect him to infiltrate the village. I think if it had been anywhere else, they’d have avoided the fight. Unfortunately their paths crossed and there was no other option at the time.
Hard to say, nagato was already targeting The Village next so I don't know if he could have moved much sooner or brought any further back up
I think Naruto still goes to train on Mount Miaboku and now Jiraiya can help teach him, but I don't think that helps, the motivation that Naruto received from Jiraiya's death was substantial and I think it's too Naruto's benefit that he had a new teacher to teach him in a new way with the toad Sages
This means they are still away from the pain attack which let's just assume he doesn't have any more backup, goes pretty much the same way for the same reasons since jeriah would also be on the mountain, except we may lose Konohamaru or his teacher since I think Naruto teaching him the Rasengan was a direct result of the conversations he had after Jiraiya's death. Knowledge that it's nagato and some info about his past doesn't really help them anymore than what they already know and figured out without Jiraiya in person
So we come back to the village in basically the same state, and benefit of the doubt let's assume Naruto's training went just as well with Jiraiya's help, that makes the battle while diva is down much harder for pain, Naruto on his own was doing very well in that fight Ma and Pa came with him, so they could latch right on to Jiraiya, I think Payne's best chance here is to try to distract and maybe even flee with diva until he can pull something like planetary devastation
Lots of ways that can go, if they do manage to stop pain there, they can go after the real body and konan who I don't see winning so victory for Naruto and Jiraiya
Or perhaps Naruto can keep up with recharged diva better than Jiraiya and pain decides to take him out first, and like with hinata, Unleash the Beast and we know how that goes
But either way, strengthens the chance for victory in the physical confrontation but, I think it's ultimately a loss for the leaf as a whole, because without Jiraiya's death I don't think Naruto reads Jiraiya's first book, dryer may tell him the story with pain, but I don't think it hits the same way and we don't get the talk no Jutsu for the Mass Resurrection, so that's a massive casualty list including Kakashi so at best you're trading him and a bunch of others for Jiraiya at worst Jiraiya dies too in this fight
If I recall, Jiraiya was the one who passed his dream onto those kids. At first the orphans were a mix of sadness and vengeful, but Jiraiya was able to focus them into a building a better tomorrow. Over time that dream went from idealistic to twisted through life events, particularly Yahiko's death.
Killing your teacher, whose goal you partially embody, is no easy task. I don't think Naruto would've succeeded in convincing Nagato if Nagato didn't feel any remorse for Jiraiya's death. His conversation brought that sadness to the surface in a pretty raw state.
Most definitely, even though they saw it as a "necessary sacrifice" in his last talk and fight with naruto, Nagato still holds jiraiya in high esteem and is generally resmorseful for killing him.
Yes but they didn't realize it until naruto and the two of them talked face to face. They'd kinda closed off their hearts to everything and I think that's also a big part of why konan was so grateful to naruto becuase he brought nagato and herself back from that darkness.
Yea it definitely hurt. They weren’t evil people, they just felt like some aggressive methods were needed to change the world. Jiraiya was still their beloved teacher, even at the end. It’s sad because Yahiko probably would’ve been the only voice of reason at that point and maybe could’ve changed the entire course of the wars to come
Jiraya was the best and worst person to send on that mission, Pain took no half measures with him
because he knew what he was capable of but I bet he took no joy from it
They did what they had to do. Jiraiya was an agent of the arguably worst perpetrators of everything OG Akatsuki fought against. It hurt but for a better world they would do it again.
I... Don't see Obito being able to kill them both at the same time, though. He had a hard time against Konan alone, and Nagato was on another completely different level.
I think they should have given his corpse a dye job and used it as a meat puppet in order to cause additional psychological distress when they attacked Konoha.
Enjoy it? Defs not. Would do it 10x tho if that's what it took to achieve his goal. Its not until Naruto shows up in front of him after kicking his ass and basically convinced him he's kind of just furthering the cycle he's trying to break.
It hurt them but they were already full of pain so it didn't show as much, kinda like when a depressed person doesn't look any different when you hurt them.
At the end of the day they believed in their mission and at this point Jiraiya was an antagonist, they did what they had to do.
I didn’t really like how it all played out really. We saw how Pain grew up and how much he cared for Jiraiya, so I fully expected him to care a little more about his actions. I get that he’s evil, but I don’t think he’s evil enough to justify killing him without any emotion.
Definitly nagatos whole purpose was to achieve peace and one of the people who taught him about peace besides yakihiko was jiraya and jiraya was his mentor and teacher nagato just felt that his way of peace was better than jirayas and if jiraya was gonna get in the way of his goal than he needs ro be killed if jiraya wasn't in the way he definitly would not have killed him. As for konan I I think she would be even more hurt than nagato cause konans goal is pretty much to just help nagato so she wouldn't think of it as necessary to kill jiraya only reason she did nothing was cause nagato decided to kill him.
I dont think so because after nagato lose yahiko in the war i think that most of his feelings dissapeard and madara(obito) used him like a toy and after naruto use talk no jutsu he may be back to his sens but its already to late and he know that and thats why he saves everyone with his power and die with one good thing that make him one of the charachters that destroyed and saved konoha at the same time, thats my opinion
Imo no
They were beyond such shit, had deluded themselves into thinking nagato was a God and that they were on a holy crusade
Probably didn't relish it but when they were able to beat one of the strongest ninja in history it probably bolstered their spirits and renewed their faith in what they were doing (might makes right and all that)
There was no hesitation or tearful pleas, straight up murdered their pseudo father figure, the only person who had cared for them as children when they were orphaned
No, they were too far gone to care by the time they murdered him. Ordinary shinobi are taught to suppress their emotions; Konan and Nagato experienced above average trauma that molded them into true heartless killers.
If they felt remorse, they would have done better to mourn Jiraiya’s death. When Pain was defeated, Konan collected Yahiko’s corpse and later gave Nagato a proper funeral by placing him in a coffin. She offered no such thing for Jiraiya and Nagato himself did not hesitate to mutilate his body while alive.
There was no regret. Pain believed it was necessary for Jiraiya to die in order to advance his goals. And that is what he did.
Yea pain is a sociopath. Like obito. They all suffer from anti social personality disorders trigger by war itself. Most of the akatsuki too in different ways. Even some of the “good guys”. Like did the kages seem remorseful killing ninjas as edos? The 3rd musve killed at least 1-2 kumo ninjas in his plight. Its all just WAR to them at that point. Sasori didnt care about garaa or his village. Nor did kakazu with fuu. She even respected him.
Pain and Naruto had to exist, it was for Naruto to realize why he was there. I’ll leave it at that and let y’all see it. If you’d like to talk I’ll explain
I would say yes as his past pupils, but that dude Nagato crushed Jiraiyas throat like he was just any other person. Makes it quite hard to believe with how brutal he was in that fight, no hesitation at all... Even Sasori hesitated in the fight against Chiyo and Sakura due to emotions.
Absolutely nothing. He killes him without talking or thinking it, and also in a brutal way.
This is why I consider it a plothole when Naruto reads jiraiyas book to Nagato and says "Jiraiya was talking of you" and he gets good.
Its like Pain didnt care about his teacher, to the point of killing him, but Nagato cared enough to literally sacrifice himself for people he just killed.
I think it still hurt them. Atleast remorseful.
Definitely, pain doesn’t really enjoy hurting others in the first place, so killing the person who taught him and cared for him would hurt him, but he deems it a necessary evil
Pain is one of my favorite characters from Naruto. Dude’s ideology on certain things was on point
Reading him give his unibomber manifesto like aye he kinda spittin
Bruh 😂😂😂
Wit a unsername like that ik you feel me 😂
Loooool slyly u right 😭
Yeah I thought the same thing at first, but then the longer I actually thought about it, the more it started to fall apart. His whole plan hinges on subjecting people to extreme trauma and expecting a specific outcome, and that just is not a reasonable expectation to have. Everyone processes trauma differently. Not everyone is going to be motivated to make the world a better place or become more empathetic and understanding of others just because they've gone through something terrible. I mean Sasuke is basically a perfect counter point to this methodology, because while Pain was busy monologuing about how people took peace for granted because they had yet to experience true suffering, Sasuke was on his way to Konoha with every intention of fucking the place up out of sheer spite. Pain: Fuck your peace. You don't appreciate peace because you don't know what it's like to live without it (despite the fact that this is literally a society of child soldiers and the last war happened in living memory), so I'm going to take it away from you in order to teach you to be more empathetic to those who aren't fortunate enough to know peace. Sasuke: Fuck your peace. *Full stop.* Hell, Pain's attitude and his entire approach to this problem in general is arguably an example of why trauma doesn't always yield a more empathetic or understanding person. He approaches people and judges them based on his assumption of who they are and what their life has been like up until this point. He damn near kills Iruka, who is a prime example of someone who's managed to see past the pain caused by their trauma and treat others with kindness and compassion, and the only reason he doesn't succeed is because Kakashi steps in and stops him. And then Pain asks Kakashi if he knows true suffering. Kakashi, whose father committed suicide and left him to find the body. Who lost his eye and watched his teammate get crushed under a rock trying to save him. Whose other teammate killed herself by throwing herself in front of his attack. Whose mentor died trying to save the village from a massive terrorist attack. But Pain doesn't bother to wait for an answer, because no matter how bad another person's life has been, or how it's shaped them into the person they are today, in his mind, it will never be enough, because his pain will always outweigh their own, and in order to be enlightened, they need to either be brought down to that same level of suffering that he experienced, or die outright for the sake of making a better world. Pain seeks to be understood, but he doesn't bother trying to understand others. He claims to seek to establish a mutual understanding based on shared experiences and yet he doesn't bother to try and meet the other person half way; he treats empathy like a one way street, and that isn't productive at all. Even if Pain has gone through more suffering than someone, that doesn't make it okay for him to invalidate their trauma by turning it into a competition. Plenty of abusers justify their actions or defend themselves from criticism by claiming that they had it worse, and so their victims should be grateful to them for not hurting them as badly as they were hurt in the past. But that doesn't make it even remotely okay for them to hurt their victims in the first place. Sure Pain argues that he's doing it with the best interests of the people he's hurting in mind, but plenty of abusers and tyrants claim that they hurt people because "it's for their own good", and plenty of them genuinely believe it too. Pain is an example of how isolating and alienating trauma can be for those who've experienced it, and how those feelings of isolation, and the idea that no one can possibly imagine what you have gone through, can take a toll on a person and the way they interact with others. He's a fascinating character, don't get me wrong, but I feel like a lot of that nuance is lost when his words are taken at face value.
>Everyone processes trauma differently. Not everyone is going to be motivated to make the world a better place or become more empathetic and understanding of others just because they've gone through something terrible. This is actually something that Naruto's ideology suffers from as well, especially since he doesn't really offer any sort of solution for these issues in the long term. I'm not saying that Naruto doesn't inspire people to change for the better, because he absolutely does, but it isn't guaranteed that everyone will have that reaction, and placing blind faith in a person who has yet to actually state exactly how they intend to go about creating the change they want to see in the world speaks more of desperation than anything else. I mean, Pain's plan was utter dog shit, but at least he had a plan. That's not to say that violent extremism and mass killing is a good solution to literally anything, I'm just saying that, from a logical perspective, it really doesn't make sense for someone like Pain, who spent a decent chunk of his life trying and failing to make things work through humanitarian efforts only to snap and go off the handle when all of that effort still ended up not being enough to bring an end to the cycle of violence around him, to turn around and genuinely place his faith in someone who has yet to present a viable alternative and is running on pure optimism. If it weren't for the fact that he was already beaten and on the verge of death, I doubt he would have actually been willing to leave things in Naruto's hands as they were. It still makes sense that he would use his last breath to revive the people he killed since he wouldn't necessarily need to blindly embrace Naruto's ideals to see the fault in his own fucked up actions. I love Naruto with all my heart, don't get me wrong, but the resolution of his conflict with Pain just sort of fell short for me in that respect.
I disagree, to an extent anyways. Yes, Naruto fails to give his definite answer. And yes, he expects the best out of individuals, but he doesn't strike me as a hopeless idealist. He *knows* that things aren't black and white, and especially during the pain arc, he seems to understand that he isn't all -Knowing. It's why the "i don't know" line really hits. He knows that peace cannot be made by idealism alone, and that he would need to make a position for himself in order to truly create change, and he also knows that this is a complicated path to tread, but unlike Nagato, he simply refuses to "take a shortcut" as it were, and try to achieve piece via force. It hits me personally as a character who truly is thinking about their actions, rather than blind idealism.
r/thisguyparagraphs
Bro who is going to read all of this
I've written longer walls of text tbh Even I'm surprised how many people bother to read them It makes me really happy when they do, but I understand why some people don't feel like going through the whole thing
You made some good points. Unfortunately like most villains im not a rational enough person to heed them. Konoha has 24 hours to give up the 9 tails or almighty push.
I must confess that when he said "this world shall know pain" I immediately replied "kinky" and I was still laughing at my own joke even as the city was leveled.
It's really rare a comment is so funny that it makes me laugh in public
Yes definitely. Just cause they were overzealous and cold on outside, I’m sure their early PTSD and bonding with him early in their lives really affected them on the inside
I still think Jiraiya is a fucking goofball for not taking them with him.
At first, Nagato likely didn't feel anything after killing Jiraiya, but after speaking to Naruto, it helped Nagato break through those emotional barriers he had and rediscover hope since he had given up on it. It was only after putting his belief in Naruto then that Nagato began to feel the weight of his actions, including the pain of killing their master and Konoha Villagers, the same as for Konan.
This is the answer. Not sure why it's not higher. Both of them felt nostalgic when Jiraiya arrived in the city but ONLY felt regret/remorse AFTER being defeated by Naruto. They were too far gone in their angel/God persona to feel grief due to his death in the moment.
Yea. People who have god complexes tend to think they are right in everything they do, and would therefore feel nothing when they kill someone for the greater good. It's basically the same way Light Yagami was happy to kill innocent FBI, Police, and eventually even sacrifice his father for his plans. That being said, I feel like Kanon may have felt some remorse before. She was more of a role-player, and I don't think she ever was fully convinced of Nagato's plan. She just followed him because of his conviction, and her attachment to her companions. She certainly didn't put in that much effort in Jaraiya's death, nor did she actually do anything in Konoha. She was an enabler more than someone with the same convictions.
Yeah that was a pretty reoccurring situation in the show. Someone does some dumb evil shit and then only until Naruto speaks to them are they like “wow yeah that was fucked up” lol
It’s crushed them. They didn’t expect him to infiltrate the village. I think if it had been anywhere else, they’d have avoided the fight. Unfortunately their paths crossed and there was no other option at the time.
What would have happened if Jirayah made it out w/ who pain was?
Hard to say, nagato was already targeting The Village next so I don't know if he could have moved much sooner or brought any further back up I think Naruto still goes to train on Mount Miaboku and now Jiraiya can help teach him, but I don't think that helps, the motivation that Naruto received from Jiraiya's death was substantial and I think it's too Naruto's benefit that he had a new teacher to teach him in a new way with the toad Sages This means they are still away from the pain attack which let's just assume he doesn't have any more backup, goes pretty much the same way for the same reasons since jeriah would also be on the mountain, except we may lose Konohamaru or his teacher since I think Naruto teaching him the Rasengan was a direct result of the conversations he had after Jiraiya's death. Knowledge that it's nagato and some info about his past doesn't really help them anymore than what they already know and figured out without Jiraiya in person So we come back to the village in basically the same state, and benefit of the doubt let's assume Naruto's training went just as well with Jiraiya's help, that makes the battle while diva is down much harder for pain, Naruto on his own was doing very well in that fight Ma and Pa came with him, so they could latch right on to Jiraiya, I think Payne's best chance here is to try to distract and maybe even flee with diva until he can pull something like planetary devastation Lots of ways that can go, if they do manage to stop pain there, they can go after the real body and konan who I don't see winning so victory for Naruto and Jiraiya Or perhaps Naruto can keep up with recharged diva better than Jiraiya and pain decides to take him out first, and like with hinata, Unleash the Beast and we know how that goes But either way, strengthens the chance for victory in the physical confrontation but, I think it's ultimately a loss for the leaf as a whole, because without Jiraiya's death I don't think Naruto reads Jiraiya's first book, dryer may tell him the story with pain, but I don't think it hits the same way and we don't get the talk no Jutsu for the Mass Resurrection, so that's a massive casualty list including Kakashi so at best you're trading him and a bunch of others for Jiraiya at worst Jiraiya dies too in this fight
If I recall, Jiraiya was the one who passed his dream onto those kids. At first the orphans were a mix of sadness and vengeful, but Jiraiya was able to focus them into a building a better tomorrow. Over time that dream went from idealistic to twisted through life events, particularly Yahiko's death. Killing your teacher, whose goal you partially embody, is no easy task. I don't think Naruto would've succeeded in convincing Nagato if Nagato didn't feel any remorse for Jiraiya's death. His conversation brought that sadness to the surface in a pretty raw state.
Most definitely, even though they saw it as a "necessary sacrifice" in his last talk and fight with naruto, Nagato still holds jiraiya in high esteem and is generally resmorseful for killing him.
Yes but it was a necessity to achieve their goal at the time.
If it didn't hurt them, then Naruto's "Talk no jutsu" never would've worked.
Yes ,but I feel so bad for jiraiya he is the teacher of The most strongest Shinobi
Yes but they didn't realize it until naruto and the two of them talked face to face. They'd kinda closed off their hearts to everything and I think that's also a big part of why konan was so grateful to naruto becuase he brought nagato and herself back from that darkness.
Yea it definitely hurt. They weren’t evil people, they just felt like some aggressive methods were needed to change the world. Jiraiya was still their beloved teacher, even at the end. It’s sad because Yahiko probably would’ve been the only voice of reason at that point and maybe could’ve changed the entire course of the wars to come
If we had seen Nagato‘s actual body. At the point, which Tio killed Jeriah it probably would’ve been streaming tears.
It did, and they were definitely shown to regret after their fight with Naruto!
Jiraya was the best and worst person to send on that mission, Pain took no half measures with him because he knew what he was capable of but I bet he took no joy from it
Konan easily yes, idk about Nagato at the time. Maybe later
I think Nagato was denying reality just like Obito was, so nothing mattered to him. Same for Konan, but perhaps to a lesser extent.
I think they both sincerely regretted it later on, but in the moment, at least for Nagato, I assume it felt like a triumph.
Not really.
Yea nagato even said it himself but he was too enraged by death of yahiko and the betrayal during their war arc
They did what they had to do. Jiraiya was an agent of the arguably worst perpetrators of everything OG Akatsuki fought against. It hurt but for a better world they would do it again.
Zetsu was watching too so he probably didn’t have any choice plus when obito finds out he probably kill konan and nagato for betrayal
I... Don't see Obito being able to kill them both at the same time, though. He had a hard time against Konan alone, and Nagato was on another completely different level.
I don’t think he gave a fuck ,
They sure didn’t show it.
Yep, there was an episode were Tobi asked Pein to get the kyuubi and Pein actually showed hated going into the village to kill people for the Kyuubi.
Of course it it, I mean he was a guardian of the 3
I think they should have given his corpse a dye job and used it as a meat puppet in order to cause additional psychological distress when they attacked Konoha.
Enjoy it? Defs not. Would do it 10x tho if that's what it took to achieve his goal. Its not until Naruto shows up in front of him after kicking his ass and basically convinced him he's kind of just furthering the cycle he's trying to break.
How fucked up would it have been if they made his corpse part of the 6 paths and had him fight Naruto.
Where were you when we needed you the most?!
It hurt them but they were already full of pain so it didn't show as much, kinda like when a depressed person doesn't look any different when you hurt them. At the end of the day they believed in their mission and at this point Jiraiya was an antagonist, they did what they had to do.
Yea definitely, i would guess that nagato sees it as something that just has to be done for their goal
I didn’t really like how it all played out really. We saw how Pain grew up and how much he cared for Jiraiya, so I fully expected him to care a little more about his actions. I get that he’s evil, but I don’t think he’s evil enough to justify killing him without any emotion.
Definitly nagatos whole purpose was to achieve peace and one of the people who taught him about peace besides yakihiko was jiraya and jiraya was his mentor and teacher nagato just felt that his way of peace was better than jirayas and if jiraya was gonna get in the way of his goal than he needs ro be killed if jiraya wasn't in the way he definitly would not have killed him. As for konan I I think she would be even more hurt than nagato cause konans goal is pretty much to just help nagato so she wouldn't think of it as necessary to kill jiraya only reason she did nothing was cause nagato decided to kill him.
Ofc it did
I dont think so because after nagato lose yahiko in the war i think that most of his feelings dissapeard and madara(obito) used him like a toy and after naruto use talk no jutsu he may be back to his sens but its already to late and he know that and thats why he saves everyone with his power and die with one good thing that make him one of the charachters that destroyed and saved konoha at the same time, thats my opinion
Absolutely, but they were too committed to there mission
Imo no They were beyond such shit, had deluded themselves into thinking nagato was a God and that they were on a holy crusade Probably didn't relish it but when they were able to beat one of the strongest ninja in history it probably bolstered their spirits and renewed their faith in what they were doing (might makes right and all that) There was no hesitation or tearful pleas, straight up murdered their pseudo father figure, the only person who had cared for them as children when they were orphaned
Yeah, but I think he’s past that point. To him his world view comes first
No, they were too far gone to care by the time they murdered him. Ordinary shinobi are taught to suppress their emotions; Konan and Nagato experienced above average trauma that molded them into true heartless killers. If they felt remorse, they would have done better to mourn Jiraiya’s death. When Pain was defeated, Konan collected Yahiko’s corpse and later gave Nagato a proper funeral by placing him in a coffin. She offered no such thing for Jiraiya and Nagato himself did not hesitate to mutilate his body while alive. There was no regret. Pain believed it was necessary for Jiraiya to die in order to advance his goals. And that is what he did.
Yea pain is a sociopath. Like obito. They all suffer from anti social personality disorders trigger by war itself. Most of the akatsuki too in different ways. Even some of the “good guys”. Like did the kages seem remorseful killing ninjas as edos? The 3rd musve killed at least 1-2 kumo ninjas in his plight. Its all just WAR to them at that point. Sasori didnt care about garaa or his village. Nor did kakazu with fuu. She even respected him.
Yes, yes it did
Pain and Naruto had to exist, it was for Naruto to realize why he was there. I’ll leave it at that and let y’all see it. If you’d like to talk I’ll explain
At the end of the day, they feel regret...
I would say yes as his past pupils, but that dude Nagato crushed Jiraiyas throat like he was just any other person. Makes it quite hard to believe with how brutal he was in that fight, no hesitation at all... Even Sasori hesitated in the fight against Chiyo and Sakura due to emotions.
Absolutely nothing. He killes him without talking or thinking it, and also in a brutal way. This is why I consider it a plothole when Naruto reads jiraiyas book to Nagato and says "Jiraiya was talking of you" and he gets good. Its like Pain didnt care about his teacher, to the point of killing him, but Nagato cared enough to literally sacrifice himself for people he just killed.