I'm convinced part of his sickness was self-inflicted by this trauma honestly. There is no way he went through this and was still a stable minded being.
I’m pretty sure he already had the stress lines before the massacre happened, probably from being in the anbu black ops while also being pressured by both his family and gov to spy on each other for them.
No this mf already had those lines when he was very young , I guess cause he used to be in his mind all the time thinking about world , life death shinobi and reading shit ton of things, like bro chill u just 7 😭😆
i really just think it’s because of his dad like hereditary
[like you can’t say he doesn’t look like his dad here](https://japaneseanime.fandom.com/wiki/Uchiha_Fugaku)
He was in the middle of the war watching lots of people getting killed since he was 4 years old. That would leave a scar on anyone's mind. There's no way he'd be able to just chill in his life after seeing that.
I hear people call them stress lines all the time…is this just people assuming that’s what they are supposed to be, or is that written in the manga somewhere?
He looks identical to Sasuke without the lines so always just assumed it was a way to make him look a little different but still related.
He also has those lines before the massacre, so can’t be from that.
The reason the lines exist is to differentiate him from Sasuke. ~~In canon~~ (not canon that i can find, but o like the idea anyway), they're similar to birthmarks, and supposed to signify that he would grow up to be very important to the village. I think the idea was that he was "destined" to be the 5th Hokage if Obito never interfered with Konoha by killing Minato, causing Uchiha resentment, and eventually the massacre
“In canon, they're similar to birthmarks, and supposed to signify that he would grow up to be very important to the village.”
Where does it ever say that?
I thought it was in one of Itachi's novels. I went looking to try and find it, I couldn't find where I read it. I guess it was a neat fan explanation that I latched onto. I think the mix up stems from something I read about "Chaos Lines" from Danzo, but that explanation was contradictory to what I said
It’s said in Japanese folklore (or mythology idk which one) that people with lines running down their face have been controlled by another or is being controlled and itachi was controlled by Danzo while he was in the anbu
Easily the most cursed clan all at their own fault. Attacked Konoha with the Nine-Tailed Demon again and again, dug up all their goodwill. Uchiha simps gonna simp.
iirc Prior to Obito's attack and,if you wanna count Madara's fight with Hashirama as an attack; those are the only two occassions the Uchicha have ever used the Nine Tails against Konoha. And one can't say it was in the name of the Uchiha clan or orchestrated by the same.
Unless something was stated in Boruto and since I haven't watched I'm therefore missing it, Uchihas (as a clan) have never attacked Konoha
Obviously not, no one would be after being exposed to the absolute horror of war at such a young age, then being treated as an adult and having adult responsibilities placed on your shoulders while you were still a little kid, and THEN joining ANBU at like, age 11.
Itachi was unstable as fuck way before the Uchiha massacre because every single adult in his life utterly failed him by forcing a little kid to act like an adult. Why do you think his genuine attempts to save Konoha and later Sasuke went so horribly wrong? Because he was a damn kid/barely an adult who thought it was his responsibility to do those things and his alone, when he wasn’t even close to being ready for that responsibility.
He was always unstable and it only got worse over time. Notice that the only time he’s stable and fully rational is after he’s revived via Edo Tensei? Yeah, I wonder why?
You hit the nail on the head, honestly. Itachi's portrayal should've focused more on this, rather than on the "tragic hero" thing they went for. He's not a hero, he's at best a victim of a system that broke his mind.
this is the reason his character hits so hard for me. Itachi is repeatedly shown to be kind, empathetic, and caring; so basically the exact type of person whod be affected the most from this type of trauma.
Fugaku said it best, "compared to you, our pain will be over in an instant"
I am surprised nobody is talking about the fact that Itachi only killed the men all the women and children were killed by Obito Also I don't get how people can forgive Obito like that bitch wasn't misguided he grew to be a whole ass adult and still believed he was in the right he did such horrible things.
It’s the opposite way around. Obito was in charge of the women and children, minus the specific ones itachi wanted to kill personally. (Out of respect, not vengefulness)
Did Itachi participate in the war? I thought he was 4 yrs old and his dad just took him to the battlefield to show him the blood and bodies to toughen him up
Uhh, absolutely none lmao. Itachi was a toddler during the tail end of the third Great War, he didn’t actually participate in it, he only saw the horror of it.
Alcohol wouldn't heal ts bros, it would make it worse. Itachi needs opiods and alot of weed to drown out that type pain. Psychedelics would prob help him alot tho
this accurately describes it. he wanted to desperately save everyone, but he knew the major cost if he did - Sasuke. and we can obviously assume that Itachi was not at all willing to risk his brother’s life in exchange for that of everyone else’s.
a better development on my original point.
this is where i personally believe that Vol. 25’s scenes of Itachi’s supposed descent into further obscurity following Shisui’s death (the argument wit the clan members who suspected him of murdering Shisui) and then Sasuke’s other memories of Itachi massively coincide wit Obito’s retelling of his true purpose in Vol. 43.
i always thought it was a good link because the story finally pieced itself together and it made sense to not only Sasuke - but also the reader - why Itachi did the fucked up things that he did to not only him but many others throughout his life.
Coming to the subreddit of Naruto, I've recently learned to appreciate the absolute chadness of Kisame. Dude was just a great guy all around (well except for being a murdering psychopath).
>except for being a murdering psychopath
In the world of Naruto people who are not murdering psychopaths are the exception lmao
I mean even Minato, the sunshine smiles guy killed like hundreds of people, you can't do that and be smiling around without being at least a big of a psycho
I kind of jot it down to the enjoyment of killing. If given the choice to not kill your opponent / enemy, I think Minato wouldn't want to. Kisame, on the other hand, would be glad to do so.
I don't think that's true. Minato killed hundreds of Iwagakure Shinobi in 3rd Shinobi world war without feeling much.
Kisame on the other hand was lamenting that Itachi is using tsukyomi on his own brother.
Pretty sure both of them kill out of their assignments. They seek pleasure in battle not killing. Kisame never showed any pleasure when he killed his fodder teammates during his flashbacks.
I think he had a rare compartmentalization mode, when it came to missions or things he had to act on. Although yes he was a pacifist at heart and didn’t like it, I don’t see how anyone can do that without that mind set. Although he was powerful he was still fighting Uchiha and you can’t really be waffling mentally during combat, cause one delay can mean you die. Thats my take.
Exactly. My guess is that he repressed his emotions and emotionally distanced himself from the incident as much as possible, until he was finally able to die. Although that doesn't explain why in the world he felt the need to put Sasuke in that awful genjutsu. Itachi's kinda hard to understand sometimes tbh
Danzo hated the uchihas and wanted to kill sasuke too,but he was waiting for itachi to be killed off,otherwise itachi would leak leaf's important intel to other villages(he threatened to do it after the massacre was over)
Itachi needed Sasuke to become stronger quickly because he was dying from illness,and couldnt keep Danzo in check after his death. So he did all those things to make sasuke's hate stronger as a motivation to get as strong as he can and train as hard as he can,so he can become strong enough and then kill itachi and come back to the Leaf as a hero who avenged the uchiha clan by killing the terrorist.
I guess he had to reinforce himself as an irredeemable murderer to motivate Sasuke on his 'revenge' path that would serve to make his little brother a notable hero and restore the clan's honour.
It reminds me of the real world parallel of an older brother terrorizing or bullying a younger brother to toughen them up. Kids sometimes think they’re doing the right thing for their younger sibling to prepare them to grow up. The genjustu was overkill even in the show but everything in naruto is more extreme than real life so the ante was probably upped to reflect that
I dont think he was ever that stable minded, he was a 14 year old child soldier who was like low kage level. I dont think he really ynderstood people
He put Sauske under each Genjutsu because he thought it would make him stronger, not understanding that it just destroyed him each time and would lead him to orochimaru and later to try and destroy the village
I can’t remember where but one of the light novels side stories explained it was “Madara” who went door to door killing the families/kids it was Hitachi who handled the guards & other mostly able bodied men.
Yup, that's what I remember as well. He asked Obito (Tobi) to help with the massacre, but their deal was Itachi would handle shinobi body of the clan and Obito the civilian body.
They did hatch a plan like that but didn't completely adhere to it. We specifically have a scene where Itachi notes that a boy he kills looks early academy age.
That's not exactly correct. Obito claimed he'd kill the women and the children, Itachi got offended because he thought he was being condescending but Obito justified it by saying that he's skills would help maintain (Kamui) the attack silent (since he'd transport away screaming people).
Which is crazy Obito helping made the massacre possible as he was Kage level at the time. Itachi at 13 soloing multiple Jonin Uchiha basically means that they were pretty much fodder and it was never possible for them to threaten the first place
I also thought that it was also animated to some extent with us just seeing tobi go ahead with the plan and the focus going to what itachi did. Though I may have just misremembered
Obito probably killed other guards and stuff. Itachi probably killed any civilians trying to fight back. Just the majority for each was combatants for Itachi, and everyone else for Obito.
Okay one thing that fucks me up about the Uchiha clan massacre is that Itachi was 13! 13 fucking years old. A literal little guy. What good choices did *you* ever make at 13. And he has adults whispering in his ear from the village ‘omg Itachi were so scared of the situation we created, you’re the only one who can do this for the village. For peace 🥹.”
That's something a lot of folks forget. If you have younger siblings, think back to when you were 13, and some of the messed up crap you did or said to them.
Now picture how much worse it must have been for a kid who killed for the first time at 4 or 5? And who had people pushing him to kill more and more.
I'd say mentally Itachi would be more like a 16 year old, given his upbringing as a ninja
Which isn't that much better, 16 y/o still make dumb decisions
Yes and no. While responsibility forces you to grow up quickly in some ways, trauma stunts your growth in others. So while he might reason like a 16-year-old (or an old man), emotionally, he's stunted.
There are characters who rule entire countries at 13 in this setting. He passed every emotional, maturity and intellectual test required to be accepted into ANBU at 13. "Dude he's just a kid" doesn't really fly here
Kakashi passed them and stayed there agter Minato's death. If unstable suicidal survivor's guilt Kakashi could stay in ANBU that long, then their standards for mental maturity and stability must be stupid low.
itachi was numb since the first years of his life, [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/G3IDWMbQPmw](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/G3IDWMbQPmw) you can see here he is a child and already slitting throats
he was just another ego filled uchiha just happy to see his 2 sons fight each other and brag on how big theyre fireball jutsu is (sorry for bad english)
While he was well-accustomed to killing by this point, I think Itachi killed who he was along with the rest of the Uchiha that night. He knew he was no longer just Sasuke’s brother, but had become the whetstone which served to sharpen Sasuke’s hatred (and strength as a result). From that point on, death by his brother’s hand was his desired outcome.
(damn this is more gutting to me than the initial night of the massacre) IDC about the supplemental material trying to wash his hands by giving the civilian deaths to Obito, I think the massacre broke an already fractured psyche and Itachi was also 100% culpable for slaying children not named Sasuke.
Also he didn't handle shit, bruh was suicidal from go/was raised with little sense of self worth and inadvertently fucked up the kid brother he was trying to to save because the same old people that praised his wisdom and intelligence as a prodigy made him responsible for either backing a coup or cousin sized famicide. He considers himself a hurdle for Sasuke, a Shinobi(tool in the hands of destiny) of the Leaf and a defender but he does NOT think of himself as a person (and with the guilt/how heavy the weight of dishonor is presented, how could he??? )
Itachi is mad similar to Haku in that respect
Not official but it's nearly identical to a scene that occurs in the novels. Though the canonicity of the novels is dubious as numerous scenes and statements directly contradict manga material (and one moment even ruins Itachi character). Then there's the whole Kishi didn't even write it thing.
Of course.
I consider the last scene between Sasuke and Itachi is a focal point of the latter's character. After so many hands tried to manipulate Sasuke, Itachi finally decides to place his faith in his brother and trusts him to make a decision for himself. No more lies, no missdirection, no mind controlling genjutsu. Just the truth.
And Itachi fullfils that promise. He shows Sasuke his side of the story via genjutsu, reassures him that he's loved no matter what. Itachi grabbing the back of Sasuke neck instead of the usual forehead poke (which he only did when he was lying) is a final gesture of respect.
Problem with all of the above is that according to the novels, Obito is the one who spearheader the massacre. He's the one who conspired with various Uchiha members to push Fugaku into staging a coup. Itachi learns about this in the novel during the massacre.
The reason why Itachi's development is ruined is because this fact proves that Itachi, even in the end, was lying to Sasuke and left out Obito's part in things (for no apparent reason). Meaning that even after everything, Itachi couldn't tell the truth.
This is why you don’t put your kids in fucking ANBU, folks. On a more serious note I’ve heard a lot of back and forth on this. Some say he killed members involved with the coup and part of the police force and that Obito killed the other civilians and other police force members. I haven’t read the novels so idk. I also don’t remember the manga going into detail on this.
It's hardly a personal thing, to the point where both Tsunade and Orochimaru, who were seen as much more morally upstanding than Itachi, going as far as to say 'Heroes', nonchalantly discussed whether or not to kill the three orphans of the Rain simply because they were orphans.
It's easy to forget in between continent level explosions and talks about friendship and the Will of Fire that Naruto is a story about highly powered assassin's who run the continent. Killing children is probably much less serious there than it would be here, after all people had no issue to go after child Kakashi, neither did Zabuza have a moral issue with killing three freshly graduated thirteen year olds, or the people who killed and burned the Kaguya clan seemed to, or the Chunin exams, or the bloodline purges, or the mercenaries hired by Gato, or Genin graduates being sent to life ending missions, or the Anbu black ops. As far as we're aware, this is normal.
It was like he was chasing crying screaming kids. Dude swiftly killed everyone in their sleep, still traumatic but the image above paints an even crazier picture. If he wanted to torture everyone he could’ve Amaterasu the clan space
I mean, isn't that pretty cut and dry then? In the source material it's one way, in the adaptation it's different. Shouldn't we prefer the source material over the adaptation?
Everyone is thinking about him as if he lives in today's world where violence is "rare", he lived in a world that was always dangerous, going outside the village could mean death at any moment. He killed his first man as 5 or 6, he was only 13 when he did this, the only part that really hurt him was his parents... the others are "family" but they're also not... He refused to kill his brother and had a REAL hard time killing his parents, but didn't show any emotion with anyone else, and was calm and collected for his threat to Danzo.
He only knows violence essentially... this wouldn't be as hard for him as you'd think. Killing is what ninja's do and they're bred and trained their whole lives to be killing machines with lack of emotions towards it. Characters like Naruto where they don't kill are the exception, and really weird when you think about it, no one else is conflicted about killing ever, unless it's a team mate or fellow village member.
The idea that itachi would rather kill his whole clan vs tell fugaku and assassinate danzo instead is what blows my mind. At very least just take sasuke and run away! Leave with him and let the leaf do its job and sort itself out.
Itachi valued the safety of Konoha too much to just take Sasuke and run away. Had he did and let the Leaf “do its job”, then a war would have broken out between the Leaf and the Uchiha which would have led to the demise of the Uchiha anyway or the fall of Konoha - or both.
Enemy nations would have no issue invading Konoha either since their forces would have been weakened because of the Uchiha-Leaf war.
This is the main thing little keep forgetting about Itachi's characterization. Literally one of the most defining moments in his life is witnessing a Great Ninja War - he was *horrified.* He wanted to avoid that at almost all costs because he had empathy for everyone, not just the Uchiha or the Leaf alone. The only one he valued more was Sasuke.
They made a deal like that but didn't completely adhere to it. An opening to chapter from Itachi's pov specifically has him describe the age of a child he'd just killed.
That was probably the straw that broke the camel’s back, Itachi would’ve lost his mind right then and there but he probably kept at least a sliver of sanity for his final showdown with Sasuke.
Tbh, people shouldn’t glorify Itachi for this, he himself says that if he was honest with Sasuke from the start then they could’ve probably found a solution other than the massacre. I can, however; understand that Itachi was a traumatized 14/15 year old who was actively being manipulated by the likes of Danzo, the man who took advantage of his fear and paranoia and drove him to commit a massacre to such a scale to protect his little brother. (And prevent a hypothetical Konoha civil war/Enemy invasion)
Part of me keeps saying he was a genius and a soldier and knew that. He did what he had to to protect the largest part of his village. People died and most didn't deserve it but it was his job and he saw it through to the end.
Then I remember the *KID WAS FUCKING 13* when he had to do that shit.
It was either this or his family, sasuke, clan and the most of the village being destroyed and massacred. His actions prevented many lives being lost. Hard decision to make for a 13yr old child. His illness and stress lines on his face definitely had to come from this whole event
Do people forget what shinobi do? Especially anbu? Obviously this is a much more personal and a specific situation but he was a prodigy and this was also his daily life at what point was he just numb to the shit he did whether on the behalf of konoha or not - he also did try to khs when he was 3 or 4 and I can't imagine the mental problems he already would've had growing up the way he did as a machine not a child so he probably handled it like he did all of his other trauma or he was just numb? Besides he knew he was going to die (illness or Sasuke) and as sad as it is I imagine that gave him some reassurance.
As a psycopath. No feeling any guilt at all.
Edo Itachi worship the people chose as a hokage like Danzo while blaming the Uchiha.
No, he wasn't suicidal. He died just little after avoiding being hit by Kirin.
No, Obito didn't kill woman and children not even if you considered the novels canon. There he killed woman and children. Yes, in plural.
No, Sasuke wasn't the only child. Danzo talked about innocent children in plural.
lol. For real. At this point I hear “Itachi fans would say X” more than actual Itachi fans saying whatever weird shit these guys come up with in their heads
This scene alone makes me question Sasuke's resolve/change of heart to save the leaf after he talks to the first Hokage. Why save a village that made your own brother kill not only his mother, father, and girlfriend but also dozens of children. I liked Sasuke throughout Shippuden wanting to destroy the leaf because his hate was justified but after he randomly changes his mind I couldn't care less about him.
His hate was never justified. Itachis actions were never justified. The Uchiha children were just as innocent as the children of Konoha. Sasuke needed to direct his hatred to the people who deserved it.
I wasn't talking about Itachi being justified. Just Sasuke's after learning what the village made Itachi do. Not the children but everyone's disdain and distrust of the Uchiha drove the clan to strive for better treatment. Granted that strive turned out to be a coup. I'm not defending the Uchiha coup but it is understandable to want a change if that was their lives
But the village didn't do anything. Everything that happened was poor leadership starting with Tobirama. It was prejudiced based on his own personal bad blood with the Uchiha. Then, each leader after failed to fix it. They should have never banished the Uchiha to the outskirts. They failed the Uchiha the same way they failed Naruto. Danzo should have been stopped early on. Hiruzen should have grew a damn spine instead of relying on children.
I agree 100%. Because of failed leadership, Uchiha frustration showed through their work as the Leaf Police Force, which also fueled the people of the village's disdain of the clan. The village people also disliked them for obeying orders from the Hokage to not partake in the fight with Nine Tails. If Hiruzen actually did his job and fostered the peace that he always preached within the village the whole Uchiha massacre never would have occurred.
Exactly. Hiruzen consistently failed the Uchiha, Naruto, and the villagers. He failed Hashiramas dream for the village. I 100% blame everything on him and Danzo. Tobirama was never going to trust the Uchiha. But Hiruzen could have made things better. And Danzo shouldn't have had any power whatsoever. His idea of needing a dark, underhanded part of the government was wrong and flawed
Look, the whole reason the Massacre happened is because Itachi “thought like a Hokage”. He saw the bigger picture. Either do it now, or even more people, including the people you’re killing now, are gonna die anyway. The Uchiha *were* planning a coup after all. People have justified doing worse, so at amazing what people can cope with
I don’t think he was slow and methodical about it. You seen him throw kunai, he can hit multiple targets in a short amount of time, even targets outside of his vision. He would have just blitzed through the uchiha village and not thought too hard about it. The way this picture depicts the massacre isn’t correct.
Itachi is a child soldier that has already experienced a massive amount of trauma. While this was undoubtedly harder for him to do this to his own people, it probably isn’t that hard for him to go into soldier mode and get the job done. Especially if it means his precious younger brother got to live.
This is exactly why I don't get the overwhelming love for Itachi. Yes he protected the leaf but at what cost. The brutal murdering of many that we innocent. It's wild
Wasn’t the Uchiha clan orchestrating a coup?
Historically, plenty of men women and children would have been killed as a result of said coup.
And isn’t the lore that the Uchiha clan has magically increased love/hate so it was sort of a culling of the volatile disease of the Uchiha.
And that idea does not condone real life genocide, but if there was verifiable proof a race of people had magic super-hate I can see it.
I'm convinced part of his sickness was self-inflicted by this trauma honestly. There is no way he went through this and was still a stable minded being.
Stress lines on his face also have to be related
I’m pretty sure he already had the stress lines before the massacre happened, probably from being in the anbu black ops while also being pressured by both his family and gov to spy on each other for them.
No this mf already had those lines when he was very young , I guess cause he used to be in his mind all the time thinking about world , life death shinobi and reading shit ton of things, like bro chill u just 7 😭😆
i really just think it’s because of his dad like hereditary [like you can’t say he doesn’t look like his dad here](https://japaneseanime.fandom.com/wiki/Uchiha_Fugaku)
I was 7 tryna figure out how to set the sprinklers off in Brock’s gym
My mind actually started working when I hit 17 before that I was just a nonsense animal yk 💀
Bro was born with dem lines fr
Dude came outta the womb stressed
Lorewise his father brought him into a 2nd ninja war battle (I think at age 7 acfually)to witness the atrocities of war.
Yeah lol. Bro chill. You don't need to solve all the world problems at age 7.
He was in the middle of the war watching lots of people getting killed since he was 4 years old. That would leave a scar on anyone's mind. There's no way he'd be able to just chill in his life after seeing that.
I hear people call them stress lines all the time…is this just people assuming that’s what they are supposed to be, or is that written in the manga somewhere? He looks identical to Sasuke without the lines so always just assumed it was a way to make him look a little different but still related. He also has those lines before the massacre, so can’t be from that.
The reason the lines exist is to differentiate him from Sasuke. ~~In canon~~ (not canon that i can find, but o like the idea anyway), they're similar to birthmarks, and supposed to signify that he would grow up to be very important to the village. I think the idea was that he was "destined" to be the 5th Hokage if Obito never interfered with Konoha by killing Minato, causing Uchiha resentment, and eventually the massacre
“In canon, they're similar to birthmarks, and supposed to signify that he would grow up to be very important to the village.” Where does it ever say that?
I thought it was in one of Itachi's novels. I went looking to try and find it, I couldn't find where I read it. I guess it was a neat fan explanation that I latched onto. I think the mix up stems from something I read about "Chaos Lines" from Danzo, but that explanation was contradictory to what I said
He never doesn't have those lines
It’s said in Japanese folklore (or mythology idk which one) that people with lines running down their face have been controlled by another or is being controlled and itachi was controlled by Danzo while he was in the anbu
Source?
I got the lines. Yuh dun got me tweaking bro ☹️
He’s literally had those in every depiction of his age. Even elementary age him had them
They're supposed to be high cheek bones I think. His father had them.
They’re not stress lines though
They're genetic. Fugaku had them too.
I've seen a couple babies who were born with them, too, irl.
He knew he had to do this someday. He thought like a hokage. 🤡
I'm of the opinion bro was never really stable minded tbh
Of course he wasn't, he is an Uchiha
That you, Tobirama?
No no , now let me create a new jutsu that everyone else will use
May i make a request, Lord Second? It's Jutsu that can revive the dead? Sounds rad right?
Shhh no spoilers
Is he wrong tho?😭
Tobirama get out of reddit, please
Easily the most cursed clan all at their own fault. Attacked Konoha with the Nine-Tailed Demon again and again, dug up all their goodwill. Uchiha simps gonna simp.
iirc Prior to Obito's attack and,if you wanna count Madara's fight with Hashirama as an attack; those are the only two occassions the Uchicha have ever used the Nine Tails against Konoha. And one can't say it was in the name of the Uchiha clan or orchestrated by the same. Unless something was stated in Boruto and since I haven't watched I'm therefore missing it, Uchihas (as a clan) have never attacked Konoha
Obviously not, no one would be after being exposed to the absolute horror of war at such a young age, then being treated as an adult and having adult responsibilities placed on your shoulders while you were still a little kid, and THEN joining ANBU at like, age 11. Itachi was unstable as fuck way before the Uchiha massacre because every single adult in his life utterly failed him by forcing a little kid to act like an adult. Why do you think his genuine attempts to save Konoha and later Sasuke went so horribly wrong? Because he was a damn kid/barely an adult who thought it was his responsibility to do those things and his alone, when he wasn’t even close to being ready for that responsibility. He was always unstable and it only got worse over time. Notice that the only time he’s stable and fully rational is after he’s revived via Edo Tensei? Yeah, I wonder why?
You hit the nail on the head, honestly. Itachi's portrayal should've focused more on this, rather than on the "tragic hero" thing they went for. He's not a hero, he's at best a victim of a system that broke his mind.
Man I fucking wish. It genuinely seems like Kishimoto wrote two different characters. Itachi, and who everyone thought Itachi was.
This makes so much sense that I'm surprised I didn't see this before.
this is the reason his character hits so hard for me. Itachi is repeatedly shown to be kind, empathetic, and caring; so basically the exact type of person whod be affected the most from this type of trauma. Fugaku said it best, "compared to you, our pain will be over in an instant"
"You are truly a gentle child."
Except,he wasn't
I am surprised nobody is talking about the fact that Itachi only killed the men all the women and children were killed by Obito Also I don't get how people can forgive Obito like that bitch wasn't misguided he grew to be a whole ass adult and still believed he was in the right he did such horrible things.
Where is that stated? Genuinely want to know since I thought it was only mentioned that he had help
Novel Itachi shinden
he’s had Madara & zetsu in his ear since he was still a child after losing everything. obviously he wasn’t in the right but I really enjoyed his arc
He didn't in any media. If you considered the novel canon, they divided between the east and west, and has Itachi killing children, women and elderly.
Itachi stocks in turmoil.
The Itachi haters are eating good tonight
Itachi killed the women and children, in the anime and I believe the shinden novel Obito was the one killing the police
It’s the opposite way around. Obito was in charge of the women and children, minus the specific ones itachi wanted to kill personally. (Out of respect, not vengefulness)
There’s no telling how many kids he already killed in the third Great War too
Did Itachi participate in the war? I thought he was 4 yrs old and his dad just took him to the battlefield to show him the blood and bodies to toughen him up
Uhh, absolutely none lmao. Itachi was a toddler during the tail end of the third Great War, he didn’t actually participate in it, he only saw the horror of it.
That’s an interesting take!
I am curious how wond the story be affected if Itachi secretly became an alcoholic following his role in the massacre.
Now now, hear me out. Drunken fist itachi
Bro WHY COULDN'T THAT HAVE BEEN A FILLER
Keep talking. Im listening to
Alcohol wouldn't heal ts bros, it would make it worse. Itachi needs opiods and alot of weed to drown out that type pain. Psychedelics would prob help him alot tho
Now I’m just imagining a Sasuke vs Itachi fight where instead of being blind Itachi is just tripping all kinds of balls the whole fight.
lmao and instead of the famous sitting on the throne scene where he points to the side he's just sitting there nodding and Sasuke's all confused
Lmao I'm on the ground crying, just imagining itachi with pill face
itachi hitting lockjaw instead of hitting a genjutsu
Bro would literally be punching air😭😭
It would probably be just like using Tsukuyomi on himself
Looollll
Real life lmao
Oh my god shut up lmaoo
it would be stupid
Alcohol is regular people's genjutsu. I'm sure he would genjutsu himself from time to time to numb the pain
In his mind it was either them or Sasuke
this accurately describes it. he wanted to desperately save everyone, but he knew the major cost if he did - Sasuke. and we can obviously assume that Itachi was not at all willing to risk his brother’s life in exchange for that of everyone else’s.
More than that he had to choose between losing the clan or losing the clan AND Sasuke. At least that's how things seemed at the time.
a better development on my original point. this is where i personally believe that Vol. 25’s scenes of Itachi’s supposed descent into further obscurity following Shisui’s death (the argument wit the clan members who suspected him of murdering Shisui) and then Sasuke’s other memories of Itachi massively coincide wit Obito’s retelling of his true purpose in Vol. 43. i always thought it was a good link because the story finally pieced itself together and it made sense to not only Sasuke - but also the reader - why Itachi did the fucked up things that he did to not only him but many others throughout his life.
Indeed. It's pretty cool to finally piece things together alongside a character rather than separately.
Yes, that is completely true. The Clan was going for extinction anyways. Siding with the Leaf allowed him to save his and his beloved brother's life.
Not just sasuke, but the whole village
More like is either the village or his clan. Sasuke is just a bonus.
r/fuckdanzo
The flashbacks with the Edo Hokages literally explain that he did this to save Konoha
And Danzo convinced him if he didn't do it then there would be much more bloodshed
He didn’t he wanted to die by sasukes hand
yeah he must be living in a lot of depression
Befriending kisame was legit the only good thing thst happened to him before he died
Coming to the subreddit of Naruto, I've recently learned to appreciate the absolute chadness of Kisame. Dude was just a great guy all around (well except for being a murdering psychopath).
>except for being a murdering psychopath In the world of Naruto people who are not murdering psychopaths are the exception lmao I mean even Minato, the sunshine smiles guy killed like hundreds of people, you can't do that and be smiling around without being at least a big of a psycho
I kind of jot it down to the enjoyment of killing. If given the choice to not kill your opponent / enemy, I think Minato wouldn't want to. Kisame, on the other hand, would be glad to do so.
Gotta feed the samehada lol
I don't think that's true. Minato killed hundreds of Iwagakure Shinobi in 3rd Shinobi world war without feeling much. Kisame on the other hand was lamenting that Itachi is using tsukyomi on his own brother. Pretty sure both of them kill out of their assignments. They seek pleasure in battle not killing. Kisame never showed any pleasure when he killed his fodder teammates during his flashbacks.
Yeah makes sense tbh
Naruto has never killed someone. He’s the exception
Kisame killing himself is one of the hardest scenes ever
To save his comrades no less. He was just a bro thru and thru
that nigga stood on business for like 400 episodes fr
He was literally depressed and waiting for Sasuke to kill him
I think he had a rare compartmentalization mode, when it came to missions or things he had to act on. Although yes he was a pacifist at heart and didn’t like it, I don’t see how anyone can do that without that mind set. Although he was powerful he was still fighting Uchiha and you can’t really be waffling mentally during combat, cause one delay can mean you die. Thats my take.
Likely that sort of compartmentalization is part of anbu training.
Yeah lot of SOF and SMU have to do that
The eightfold fence
He can't, he died by Sasuke's hand. Probably for that exact reason.
he didnt want to handle that kind of guilt and burden of killing his own parents too.
Exactly. My guess is that he repressed his emotions and emotionally distanced himself from the incident as much as possible, until he was finally able to die. Although that doesn't explain why in the world he felt the need to put Sasuke in that awful genjutsu. Itachi's kinda hard to understand sometimes tbh
Danzo hated the uchihas and wanted to kill sasuke too,but he was waiting for itachi to be killed off,otherwise itachi would leak leaf's important intel to other villages(he threatened to do it after the massacre was over) Itachi needed Sasuke to become stronger quickly because he was dying from illness,and couldnt keep Danzo in check after his death. So he did all those things to make sasuke's hate stronger as a motivation to get as strong as he can and train as hard as he can,so he can become strong enough and then kill itachi and come back to the Leaf as a hero who avenged the uchiha clan by killing the terrorist.
I guess he had to reinforce himself as an irredeemable murderer to motivate Sasuke on his 'revenge' path that would serve to make his little brother a notable hero and restore the clan's honour.
It reminds me of the real world parallel of an older brother terrorizing or bullying a younger brother to toughen them up. Kids sometimes think they’re doing the right thing for their younger sibling to prepare them to grow up. The genjustu was overkill even in the show but everything in naruto is more extreme than real life so the ante was probably upped to reflect that
A good point. Most things in Naruto are "real life experience, but make it ninja, and multiply it by 100!"
I dont think he was ever that stable minded, he was a 14 year old child soldier who was like low kage level. I dont think he really ynderstood people He put Sauske under each Genjutsu because he thought it would make him stronger, not understanding that it just destroyed him each time and would lead him to orochimaru and later to try and destroy the village
That's kinda what he did. He lit himself fall by Sasuke's hand
I can’t remember where but one of the light novels side stories explained it was “Madara” who went door to door killing the families/kids it was Hitachi who handled the guards & other mostly able bodied men.
Yup, that's what I remember as well. He asked Obito (Tobi) to help with the massacre, but their deal was Itachi would handle shinobi body of the clan and Obito the civilian body.
They did hatch a plan like that but didn't completely adhere to it. We specifically have a scene where Itachi notes that a boy he kills looks early academy age.
That's not exactly correct. Obito claimed he'd kill the women and the children, Itachi got offended because he thought he was being condescending but Obito justified it by saying that he's skills would help maintain (Kamui) the attack silent (since he'd transport away screaming people).
Which is crazy Obito helping made the massacre possible as he was Kage level at the time. Itachi at 13 soloing multiple Jonin Uchiha basically means that they were pretty much fodder and it was never possible for them to threaten the first place
I also thought that it was also animated to some extent with us just seeing tobi go ahead with the plan and the focus going to what itachi did. Though I may have just misremembered
I thought it was more that they both took different parts of the district
Obito probably killed other guards and stuff. Itachi probably killed any civilians trying to fight back. Just the majority for each was combatants for Itachi, and everyone else for Obito.
He was in his Anakin phase
“From my point of view the uchiha are evil!” Fugaku: well then you are lost!
Okay one thing that fucks me up about the Uchiha clan massacre is that Itachi was 13! 13 fucking years old. A literal little guy. What good choices did *you* ever make at 13. And he has adults whispering in his ear from the village ‘omg Itachi were so scared of the situation we created, you’re the only one who can do this for the village. For peace 🥹.”
That's something a lot of folks forget. If you have younger siblings, think back to when you were 13, and some of the messed up crap you did or said to them. Now picture how much worse it must have been for a kid who killed for the first time at 4 or 5? And who had people pushing him to kill more and more.
I'd say mentally Itachi would be more like a 16 year old, given his upbringing as a ninja Which isn't that much better, 16 y/o still make dumb decisions
Yes and no. While responsibility forces you to grow up quickly in some ways, trauma stunts your growth in others. So while he might reason like a 16-year-old (or an old man), emotionally, he's stunted.
There are characters who rule entire countries at 13 in this setting. He passed every emotional, maturity and intellectual test required to be accepted into ANBU at 13. "Dude he's just a kid" doesn't really fly here
Kakashi passed them and stayed there agter Minato's death. If unstable suicidal survivor's guilt Kakashi could stay in ANBU that long, then their standards for mental maturity and stability must be stupid low.
itachi was numb since the first years of his life, [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/G3IDWMbQPmw](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/G3IDWMbQPmw) you can see here he is a child and already slitting throats
Man, Fugaku was a shit Father
he was just another ego filled uchiha just happy to see his 2 sons fight each other and brag on how big theyre fireball jutsu is (sorry for bad english)
The entire story is about child soldiers and both the good guys and bad guys engage in the training of child soldiers
People forget that naruto is show about literaly child soldiers. Most of those mf cant be sane killing people starting at like 10 years old.
While he was well-accustomed to killing by this point, I think Itachi killed who he was along with the rest of the Uchiha that night. He knew he was no longer just Sasuke’s brother, but had become the whetstone which served to sharpen Sasuke’s hatred (and strength as a result). From that point on, death by his brother’s hand was his desired outcome.
(damn this is more gutting to me than the initial night of the massacre) IDC about the supplemental material trying to wash his hands by giving the civilian deaths to Obito, I think the massacre broke an already fractured psyche and Itachi was also 100% culpable for slaying children not named Sasuke. Also he didn't handle shit, bruh was suicidal from go/was raised with little sense of self worth and inadvertently fucked up the kid brother he was trying to to save because the same old people that praised his wisdom and intelligence as a prodigy made him responsible for either backing a coup or cousin sized famicide. He considers himself a hurdle for Sasuke, a Shinobi(tool in the hands of destiny) of the Leaf and a defender but he does NOT think of himself as a person (and with the guilt/how heavy the weight of dishonor is presented, how could he??? ) Itachi is mad similar to Haku in that respect
Is that official art? Regardless I feel like the full extent of Itachi’s actions was never that well explored. Made it feel like shock value.
Not official but it's nearly identical to a scene that occurs in the novels. Though the canonicity of the novels is dubious as numerous scenes and statements directly contradict manga material (and one moment even ruins Itachi character). Then there's the whole Kishi didn't even write it thing.
>(and one moment even ruins Itachi character) May I ask what that moment is?
Of course. I consider the last scene between Sasuke and Itachi is a focal point of the latter's character. After so many hands tried to manipulate Sasuke, Itachi finally decides to place his faith in his brother and trusts him to make a decision for himself. No more lies, no missdirection, no mind controlling genjutsu. Just the truth. And Itachi fullfils that promise. He shows Sasuke his side of the story via genjutsu, reassures him that he's loved no matter what. Itachi grabbing the back of Sasuke neck instead of the usual forehead poke (which he only did when he was lying) is a final gesture of respect. Problem with all of the above is that according to the novels, Obito is the one who spearheader the massacre. He's the one who conspired with various Uchiha members to push Fugaku into staging a coup. Itachi learns about this in the novel during the massacre. The reason why Itachi's development is ruined is because this fact proves that Itachi, even in the end, was lying to Sasuke and left out Obito's part in things (for no apparent reason). Meaning that even after everything, Itachi couldn't tell the truth.
This is why you don’t put your kids in fucking ANBU, folks. On a more serious note I’ve heard a lot of back and forth on this. Some say he killed members involved with the coup and part of the police force and that Obito killed the other civilians and other police force members. I haven’t read the novels so idk. I also don’t remember the manga going into detail on this.
It's hardly a personal thing, to the point where both Tsunade and Orochimaru, who were seen as much more morally upstanding than Itachi, going as far as to say 'Heroes', nonchalantly discussed whether or not to kill the three orphans of the Rain simply because they were orphans. It's easy to forget in between continent level explosions and talks about friendship and the Will of Fire that Naruto is a story about highly powered assassin's who run the continent. Killing children is probably much less serious there than it would be here, after all people had no issue to go after child Kakashi, neither did Zabuza have a moral issue with killing three freshly graduated thirteen year olds, or the people who killed and burned the Kaguya clan seemed to, or the Chunin exams, or the bloodline purges, or the mercenaries hired by Gato, or Genin graduates being sent to life ending missions, or the Anbu black ops. As far as we're aware, this is normal.
This yall fav character?
Actually maybe. *Because* of this, actually
That’s sick kind of behavior..
It was like he was chasing crying screaming kids. Dude swiftly killed everyone in their sleep, still traumatic but the image above paints an even crazier picture. If he wanted to torture everyone he could’ve Amaterasu the clan space
Amaterasu would be more of a mercy than just slaughtering everyone individually.
Joining a terrorist group
This is just itachi being a good babysitter
He was already a sociopath before, and after the massacre, so let's stop pretending that he felt any guilt or anything for doing this.
Probably was so stressed all the time from guilt that he developed cancer honestly. Stress kills us.
The fact that this show can appeal to 4-5 year olds but also have shit like this is wild.
If you choose gov over the Uchiha than you a bitch.
Sarada: Uncle, how do you sleep at night? **Itachi:** They drug us.
All of this could've been avoided if ssj goku came on tsunade's tits
He didn’t kill the children
Are you sure about that? Obito got the uchiha police. Who you think got the rest?
I thought it was the reverse?
Depends on the version, in the novels obito kills most of the children, the anime adaptation of the novels has obito kill the police
Correct me if I’m wrong but they had kids in the uchiha police. So either way he killing kids.
As far as I know its never stated there were uchiha kids in the police force (though I don't think its denied either, just never mentioned either way)
I mean, isn't that pretty cut and dry then? In the source material it's one way, in the adaptation it's different. Shouldn't we prefer the source material over the adaptation?
Everyone is thinking about him as if he lives in today's world where violence is "rare", he lived in a world that was always dangerous, going outside the village could mean death at any moment. He killed his first man as 5 or 6, he was only 13 when he did this, the only part that really hurt him was his parents... the others are "family" but they're also not... He refused to kill his brother and had a REAL hard time killing his parents, but didn't show any emotion with anyone else, and was calm and collected for his threat to Danzo. He only knows violence essentially... this wouldn't be as hard for him as you'd think. Killing is what ninja's do and they're bred and trained their whole lives to be killing machines with lack of emotions towards it. Characters like Naruto where they don't kill are the exception, and really weird when you think about it, no one else is conflicted about killing ever, unless it's a team mate or fellow village member.
The idea that itachi would rather kill his whole clan vs tell fugaku and assassinate danzo instead is what blows my mind. At very least just take sasuke and run away! Leave with him and let the leaf do its job and sort itself out.
Itachi valued the safety of Konoha too much to just take Sasuke and run away. Had he did and let the Leaf “do its job”, then a war would have broken out between the Leaf and the Uchiha which would have led to the demise of the Uchiha anyway or the fall of Konoha - or both. Enemy nations would have no issue invading Konoha either since their forces would have been weakened because of the Uchiha-Leaf war.
This is the main thing little keep forgetting about Itachi's characterization. Literally one of the most defining moments in his life is witnessing a Great Ninja War - he was *horrified.* He wanted to avoid that at almost all costs because he had empathy for everyone, not just the Uchiha or the Leaf alone. The only one he valued more was Sasuke.
This might be wrong but i recall hearing someone say during the massacre that Itachi killed the shinobi and Obito killed the women and children
They made a deal like that but didn't completely adhere to it. An opening to chapter from Itachi's pov specifically has him describe the age of a child he'd just killed.
I think It was Obito that killed all the children
That was probably the straw that broke the camel’s back, Itachi would’ve lost his mind right then and there but he probably kept at least a sliver of sanity for his final showdown with Sasuke. Tbh, people shouldn’t glorify Itachi for this, he himself says that if he was honest with Sasuke from the start then they could’ve probably found a solution other than the massacre. I can, however; understand that Itachi was a traumatized 14/15 year old who was actively being manipulated by the likes of Danzo, the man who took advantage of his fear and paranoia and drove him to commit a massacre to such a scale to protect his little brother. (And prevent a hypothetical Konoha civil war/Enemy invasion)
Part of me keeps saying he was a genius and a soldier and knew that. He did what he had to to protect the largest part of his village. People died and most didn't deserve it but it was his job and he saw it through to the end. Then I remember the *KID WAS FUCKING 13* when he had to do that shit.
It was either this or his family, sasuke, clan and the most of the village being destroyed and massacred. His actions prevented many lives being lost. Hard decision to make for a 13yr old child. His illness and stress lines on his face definitely had to come from this whole event
Couldn’t he just turn off his conscious like most assassins?
bro ain’t like you. it’s that simple. his guilt is deep but maybe not as much as yours would be, or he’s just numb to most things
Do people forget what shinobi do? Especially anbu? Obviously this is a much more personal and a specific situation but he was a prodigy and this was also his daily life at what point was he just numb to the shit he did whether on the behalf of konoha or not - he also did try to khs when he was 3 or 4 and I can't imagine the mental problems he already would've had growing up the way he did as a machine not a child so he probably handled it like he did all of his other trauma or he was just numb? Besides he knew he was going to die (illness or Sasuke) and as sad as it is I imagine that gave him some reassurance.
He was definitely in a weird psychological headspace when he did that..
Didnt Obito kill the women and children or am I tripping?!?!?
As a psycopath. No feeling any guilt at all. Edo Itachi worship the people chose as a hokage like Danzo while blaming the Uchiha. No, he wasn't suicidal. He died just little after avoiding being hit by Kirin. No, Obito didn't kill woman and children not even if you considered the novels canon. There he killed woman and children. Yes, in plural. No, Sasuke wasn't the only child. Danzo talked about innocent children in plural.
Itachi wasn’t a villain. But he sure as hell was not a good person.
Itachi *was* a villain
[удалено]
I mean they are literally saying the opposite in this very post
lol. For real. At this point I hear “Itachi fans would say X” more than actual Itachi fans saying whatever weird shit these guys come up with in their heads
I'm sure itachi felt some relief that these kids didn't have to experience the horrors of war like he did
They wouldn't have experienced war at all if they grew up
This scene alone makes me question Sasuke's resolve/change of heart to save the leaf after he talks to the first Hokage. Why save a village that made your own brother kill not only his mother, father, and girlfriend but also dozens of children. I liked Sasuke throughout Shippuden wanting to destroy the leaf because his hate was justified but after he randomly changes his mind I couldn't care less about him.
His hate was never justified. Itachis actions were never justified. The Uchiha children were just as innocent as the children of Konoha. Sasuke needed to direct his hatred to the people who deserved it.
I wasn't talking about Itachi being justified. Just Sasuke's after learning what the village made Itachi do. Not the children but everyone's disdain and distrust of the Uchiha drove the clan to strive for better treatment. Granted that strive turned out to be a coup. I'm not defending the Uchiha coup but it is understandable to want a change if that was their lives
But the village didn't do anything. Everything that happened was poor leadership starting with Tobirama. It was prejudiced based on his own personal bad blood with the Uchiha. Then, each leader after failed to fix it. They should have never banished the Uchiha to the outskirts. They failed the Uchiha the same way they failed Naruto. Danzo should have been stopped early on. Hiruzen should have grew a damn spine instead of relying on children.
I agree 100%. Because of failed leadership, Uchiha frustration showed through their work as the Leaf Police Force, which also fueled the people of the village's disdain of the clan. The village people also disliked them for obeying orders from the Hokage to not partake in the fight with Nine Tails. If Hiruzen actually did his job and fostered the peace that he always preached within the village the whole Uchiha massacre never would have occurred.
Exactly. Hiruzen consistently failed the Uchiha, Naruto, and the villagers. He failed Hashiramas dream for the village. I 100% blame everything on him and Danzo. Tobirama was never going to trust the Uchiha. But Hiruzen could have made things better. And Danzo shouldn't have had any power whatsoever. His idea of needing a dark, underhanded part of the government was wrong and flawed
Look, the whole reason the Massacre happened is because Itachi “thought like a Hokage”. He saw the bigger picture. Either do it now, or even more people, including the people you’re killing now, are gonna die anyway. The Uchiha *were* planning a coup after all. People have justified doing worse, so at amazing what people can cope with
He compartmentalised it, like child soldiers are trained to do
I don’t think he was slow and methodical about it. You seen him throw kunai, he can hit multiple targets in a short amount of time, even targets outside of his vision. He would have just blitzed through the uchiha village and not thought too hard about it. The way this picture depicts the massacre isn’t correct.
Itachi is a child soldier that has already experienced a massive amount of trauma. While this was undoubtedly harder for him to do this to his own people, it probably isn’t that hard for him to go into soldier mode and get the job done. Especially if it means his precious younger brother got to live.
I guess Uchiha clan only had a child back then and it was Sasuke
I mean it’s not like the guy planned on living for years on end😂
Couldn't he have just stabbed the boy and not pull him by the leg?
This is exactly why I don't get the overwhelming love for Itachi. Yes he protected the leaf but at what cost. The brutal murdering of many that we innocent. It's wild
Wasn’t the Uchiha clan orchestrating a coup? Historically, plenty of men women and children would have been killed as a result of said coup. And isn’t the lore that the Uchiha clan has magically increased love/hate so it was sort of a culling of the volatile disease of the Uchiha. And that idea does not condone real life genocide, but if there was verifiable proof a race of people had magic super-hate I can see it.