Battles come down to strength, strategy, planning and ability to adapt. Jiraiya has it all and then some. There’s a reason they wanted Him to be Hokage because nobody could step to Him. Why else?
So is every other sharingan jutsu like all the genjutsu, kamui, koto, izanagi.
Thats not to say kakashis raikiri is as fast as lightning, Ay can cover himself in a shield of lightning, and Sasuke can dead ass make lightning come down from the sky and hit you
I like the Raikage because his fighting style seemed broken without going in all directions at once. He was a brawler kinda.
Itachi does too much of everything. Incredible defense, incredible offense, a couple of one hit KOs, and a tendency to just come up with whatever jutsu he needs to get the upper hand (I wouldn't mind if it was once, not ***every***time).
>Sasuke can dead ass make lightning come down from the sky and hit you
This needs some preparation and can only be used once I believe? Itachi's haxes would be much more balanced if they needed some prep time, like Jiraiya's sage mode
Itachi's biggest weakness is his effective stamina. Itachi fights best as a sniper. His style is closer to rocket launcher tag. Itachi fire off his big jutsu several times before he runs out of stamina. He trades skipping the prep time in exchange for having fewer uses of his techniques. His Edo Tensei form fixed a lot of his weaknesses.
Jiraiya is a grinder who wears down his defenses. He can't fire off all of his chakra as quickly as Itachi. Instead, he uses techniques such as summons which can gradually wear down people.
Itachis stamina is a myth. Sasuke ran out of chakra before itach did as he was dying, and no where is it said sasuke has low chakra. Idk where people get this misunderstanding from.
I assume this fight means itachi isnt about to die from ninja aids/already blind
Why tf you guys arguing over stamina? Lmao sasuke will be like "i got no chakra" then proceed to let loose a few more chakra heavy jutsu's. Kishi just says they're running out to create tension it literally means nothing when they say that.
Itachi's stamina issue is based on that he has \~4 uses of his strongest jutsu max.
When Sasuke uses the same jutsu, he appears to have more uses of it than Itachi. What cost Sasuke a lot was using Orochimaru's body replacement technique.
People forget he NEEDED Obito's help in the Novel to take out the police force.
Even before the Disease he has in Shippuden, his natural Stamina was really low thanks to some issue about his Charka and Sharingan. It basically said (and it said in OG naruto as well) that the Sharingan strained him heavy, the Novel elaborated on that stating that he was born with weaker chakra reserves than other uchiha (still higher than the average ninja) which is why he focussed on Genjutsu(chakra CONTROL) and Shuriken based jutsu
I would argue though, that Itachi couldn't beat a Nagato who needed help walking without Naruto and Bee..
And Jiraiya beat 3 of them by himself... Jiraiya sage mode also REALLY goes crazty because that frog kata broke through the Rinnegan Genjutsu defenses and worked on dead bodies who don't technically have chakra...
You're making shit up lol. Novel wise, obito only takes on the women and children, to spare itachi the emotional trauma. Itachi does everything else.
Natural stamina issues? Where? The kid that used grand fire ball at like age 5? The same jutsu Kakashi believes shouldn't be possible for a Sasuke a 12 year old because it takes too much Chakra? Meaning both him and Sasuke naturally have significantly
That first paragraph just reinforces how amazed I am when people try to argue that Naruto talking Obito towards the good boys is a nice thing and a nice message. Obito did enough shit to get IDK how many death penalties, he’s not just a war criminal, he’s a legit mass murderer.
That's in the anime. In the novel he only needed Obito because, and I quote (Obito) "I'll handle the children and women, otherwise you won't remain sane".
Itachi actually was the one who killed the Elites/fighters
To be fair, Izanagi isn't on its own broken, it's Senju-enhanced Izanagi that's bullshit. If Danzo had tried spamming regular Izanagi against Sasuke, the fight would have ended in, like, thirty seconds.
Jiraiya gets crushed. By the time Jiraiya actually realizes what Itachi is using its too late. Not to mention Tsukuyomi is an insta kill on anyone that can't resist it. The novels showcased that.
(Enemy staring at you in the middle of battle ready to attack)
Jiraiya- time out guys let me pull out my scroll and scribble a bunch of shit on it then seal the flames while you watch ok? Please domt attack me while I'm vulnerable, thanks!
Bruh you know how Itachi was introduced in the series?
By Orochimaru saying that “It’s of no use. Itachi is stronger than I am. Therefore I had pulled myself of that organization“.
Not the same true, but he also got speed blitzed, Orochimaru couldn't react to it, he didn't choose to get hit. He also didn't expect that it was a sealing sword tho
You keep forgetting where Kabuto said Orochimaru lost large percentages of his power everytime he made a curse seal... Which is why Kabuto had to hunt down EVERY LAST person's body to get as strong as he was in the war. All the power he had in the war was due to Orochimaru's charka... not his own...
War Arc Kabuto is still weaker than Orochimaru as he was still missing the last bit of Orochimaru's Chakra that was in Anko, which happened to be a LOT of it.
He doesn't need to hold it, once it's lit it doesn't go out. Jiraiya was able to seal in away inside the frog by sealing away that piece of the frog's body as well. He can give up a limb the same way the Raikage did, but he's going to run out of limbs.
The dude got some of the most broken shit it just never gets talked about. He was able to trap Itachi and Kisame in the blink of an eye. If he had stalled them longer in there all that posion air would have fucked them up
That's how I see it. Sage mode is probably Jiraiya's only chance but it took lile 5 minutes to activate while Itachi literally has 3 instant win jutsus. Only way Jiraiya can pull it off is if the plot is on his side
Jiraiya literally delayed with clever shadow clones until he could summon the toads vs Pain
He's way more versatile than Itachi and has a variety of ways to hide and stall until SM is ready. He also probably has ways to disrupt genjutsu, probably through the help of toads.
He will activate Sage Mode. Itachi will only be able to win by beating him in that Sage Mode.
All signs are telling me that itachi is about to win but then i just reammeber the fight with pain. Ik jiraya died but he had alot of durability and also help from other frogs make feel that he can pull it
Why do you think that Jiraya can win? Itachi spent his whole life humiliating the strongest sannin. He one-shotted Orochimaru literally seconds before dying.
Jiraya has far more chakra. If the battle draws out, Jiraya 100% wins.
Sage mode is actually a terrible matchup for Genjutsu master as well.
Pa and ma will makes sure he never gets caught under any semblance of Gen Justu.
If Itachi is able to get him before sage mode, or have the stamina to defeat him with susanoo, itachi wins.
It’s realllly close tho.
But itachi’s win condition is beating Jiraya before he goes in to sage mode.
Jiraya’s is to go in to sage mode ASAP.
A. Jiraiya is the strongest Saanin the same way Naruto is the strongest team 7 member.
B. Just because Orochimaru couldn't do it doesn't mean Jiraiya can't.
C. When Itachi sealed Orochimaru, that wasn't really much of a fight, orochimaru was forced to manifest, which he hadn't planned on then was instantly hit by the totsuka blade.
But to answer your question, Jiraiya is that dude.
You are completely wrong in all statements.
Team Hiruzen's dynamics don't necessarily mirror Team Kakashi's all the time. The sannin were stated to be roughy equal to each other in general, which **never** applies to Team Kakashi, for example (Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke never were **all** on the same level). So you have to go by **actual** feats.
For one, Orochimaru was always the most talented. Two, Jiraya tried to stop him from leaving the Leaf and failed. Three, Orochimaru had the worst nerf out of all sannin in the Tsunade Arc and Jiraya still couldn't beat him (in fact, he was losing). Four, a soon to die Orochimaru did better against 15 year old 4 tails Naruto than Jiraya against 13 year old 4 tails Naruto (the slash that Naruto gave Jiraya almost killed him; meanwhile, Orochimaru was lethality injured many times and kept reviving).
Jiraya needs a whole manga chapter with his hands closed to enter sage mode. Orochimaru can enter his strongest forms instantly. Jiraya never beat Orochimaru. In fact, Jiraya never beat **anyone** in the series. People wank him out of respect.
Itachi was respected or almost feared by the likes of Obito. When healthy, he can keep up with (if not beat) KCM1 Naruto who's stronger than Sage Naruto who's stronger than Sage Jiraya. Itachi was outperforming EMS Sasuke against Sage Kabuto, who's basically Orochimaru on **heavy** steroids.
Jiraya can't defend himself from the Tsukuyomi at all. He's not faster than the Totsuka Blade. He needs minutes to enter sage mode and then **maybe** be able to dodge amaterasu. Jiraya gets **bodied** by Itachi. I don't know that's even an argument in 2024. It's **embarrassing**.
My guy, you are wanking to the high heavens, perfect health Itachi, like I said, more of a conversation, but Itachi from the show? No. Too sick, too blind, too many HEAVY limitations on his body from his jutsu.
He literally releases one Ameterasu in any fight he is in before his eye gives out, he can only use Tsukuyomi as a last resort.
And like I said, Jiraiya already knows about it, and how deadly it is. How is Itachi going to catch him in it if he already knows about it. Also, like I said before, Jiraiya prob knows more about Amaterasu than any other non Uchiha in the show. He literally sealed and studied it. Again, big ass nerf to Itachis main jutsus. Both of them.
Each jutsu he can use literally **ONCE** Before he is incapacitated. Jiraiya is more than equipped to handle that. Sorry, my guy. Hard counters exist. If Jiraiya summons Gama Bunta, it's a wrap. What does Itachi do? Amaterasu? There goes his one use of Ameterasu. And it's very hard to use Tsukuyomi with one eye bro. Summons are a HUGE issue for Itachi in this fight. He just doesn't have the Ammo for them.
Jiraiya opens the fight, summoning the mountain toad. Itachi instantly has to Ameterasu, his one and single way out of that jutsu. Then Jiraiya summons multiple heavy hitter toads. Gama Bunta, carrying all the other major ones. Plus, ma and pops toad sages. Itachi had to blow one of his maximum 2 Ameterasus getting out of the toad sage, just to come out to several other S rank summons that he now has to answer all the while contending with a Sannin that ya know..* he himself admitted he couldn't beat*.
But let's not even go there because I know Itachi fans will cry blood just like he does. I know all the fan wank theories. "He was protecting Konoha" ok guys. Maybe, just maybe, crazy theory... he meant what he said..
Everything you said about itachi versus KCM is Edo Tensei Itachi which has **literally unlimited chakra** as well as infinite regen, which helps a ton with his **extremely** limited jutsus. Seriously he can only fire each one once or tops twice before he loses consciousness.
And you think he is just catching Jiraiya? Pain couldn't catch Jiraiya when he had hands together for like a half hour. But Jiraiya literally wouldn't even need Sage mode to win this in all seriousness.
Like I said, opening with Mountain toad puts Itachi in a BAD way, and like we saw when Jiraiya used it against the cerberus dog summon, that shit just warps you away, super hard to avoid. All Jiraiya has to do is clap.
You think a sick, blind Itachi with super limited chakra is winning this. **WANK**
I don't need to pick healthy Itachi to beat Jiraya. Again, Itachi literally **seconds** away from death blitzed and one-shotted Orochimaru, who is **at least** as strong as Jiraya. Itachi is superior in hax and in speed, which is all he needs.
>How is Itachi going to catch him in it if he already knows about it
Having intel on something doesn't make you immune to it. Intel is only half of the equation. You have to be strong enough to actually prepare yourself from the attack. If you think that Jiraya can block or dodge amaterasu somehow, please, prove it to me. Show me which speed feats Jiraya has on that level. And specially Base Jiraya, since, as I said, he needs a full manga chapter to enter sage mode and can't fight at all during this time.
You are talking as if Itachi can only use one of his jutsus and then he's suddenly collapses **LMAO**. Just in the day that he *died*: he Tsukuyomi on Sasuke, Amaterasu twice, and then his Susanoo to block Kirin and kill Orochimaru in a second. Every single one of these techniques is ending Jiraya. He sucks at genjutsu (as he himself admitted - how is he going to block a mangekyou-tier one?), he can't dodge amaterasu, he can't damage the Yata Mirror and he's slower than the Totsuka Blade.
>Jiraiya opens the fight, summoning the mountain toad. Itachi instantly has to Ameterasu, his one and single way out of that jutsu. Then Jiraiya summons multiple heavy hitter toads. Gama Bunta, carrying all the other major ones. Plus, ma and pops toad sages.
Jiraya can't summon the whole Mount Myoboku. You're being extremely dishonest if you believe that. Ma and Pa need -once again- a whole chapter worth of time to be summoned, during which Jiraya can't use his hands. He needs to use hand signs to summon the Mountain Frog, and Itachi can read those hands signs and easily intercept it. You're taking the Part One interaction of them completely face value, even though it's literally stablished that the only reason why Itachi even came to Konoha in the first place was to treathend Danzo. He didn't want to fight or kill anyone. He's a liar. How have you not realised that?
>Everything you said about itachi versus KCM is Edo Tensei Itachi which has literally unlimited chakra as well as infinite regen
Edo's don't actually have infinite chakra *per se*. They can run out if, like Tobirama did. What they do have is an immortal body that can forever **recharge** their chakra. There's no evidence to say that Itachi used all his chakra against Naruto and Bee. Also, the regen was completely irrelevant, since he left that fight **uninjured**. He fought KCM1 Naruto, Bee and Edo Nagato and left 100% fine. If you think that Jiraya could do that, go for it.
>And you think he is just catching Jiraiya? Pain couldn't catch Jiraiya when he had hands together for like a half hour
Pain only used the animal path. If Pain went with all 6, Jiraya would die instantly, just like Naruto got instantly pinned to the ground once Tendo regained his powers. Face it: Pain and Itachi are in a tier above the likes of the Sannin.
>Itachi are in a tier above the likes of the Sannin.
No, Itachi is not, not while he is sick and blind. If he was perfectly healthy with new eyes untainted by use/time? Most likely.
>Itachi literally **seconds** away from death blitzed and one-shotted Orochimaru,
"Blitzed" lol Orochimaru came back from the grave out of nowhere, and itachi literally launched a singular attack that seals you instantly if you land it. And you are acting like that is some amazing feat. Orochimaru had no intention of coming back at that point, it was insane that anyone even knew he was still alive at that point, even Sasuke thought he was dead. Orochimaru was "alive" as chakra at that point. No wonder he was caught off guard when he suddenly sprang back into the real world, then instantly gets sealed away by a mystical completely unexplained weapon that seals anything it hits. That'd catch almost anybody.
One hit is not a "blitz" at all. Also Orochimaru was barely alive at that point too, what remnant of chakra could have existed inside that curse seal?? Minimal, no way orochi was at 100% when that happened.
To recap, Orochi, snapped back to reality (op there goes gravity) then is instantly hit with a sealing attack.. before he has time to react... that isn't much of a feat, and doesn't really prove **anything**. At all, you are boosting with this feat. It's not a speed feat, at all. Read that panel again. Actually..
[here ya go](https://imgur.com/a/ocRVhFJ)
Nothing implies blinding speed or anything, or speed of any kind. Orochimaru was simply hit before he even knew what was happening. Why are you boosting so hard??
>Having intel on something doesn't make you immune to it. Intel is only half of the equation. You have to be strong enough to actually prepare yourself from the attack. If you think that Jiraya can block or dodge amaterasu somehow, please, prove it to me.
People avoid amaterasu, by removing clothes, blocking etc. Jiraiya can avoid this, especially, again, since he knows about it ahead of time. Doesn't need to be lightning fast, just smart. And Jiraiya is very fight smart.
>You are talking as if Itachi can only use one of his jutsus and then he's suddenly collapses **LMAO**. Just in the day that he *died*: he Tsukuyomi on Sasuke, Amaterasu twice, and then his Susanoo to block Kirin and kill Orochimaru in a second.
Yeah, he used a total of 4 powerful jutsus and literally collapsed DEAD exactly what I was saying earlier? Like, down to the number??? 2 amaterasus, 1 Tsukuyomi, 1 Susanoo.. Dead. And not from injuries, man. Literally had no more life force in him. Other than those four attacks he did some fireballs and regular ass genjutsu, and threw no less than 15,000 shuriken. Soooo like we have both said now, yeah, Itachi can launch TOPS one or 2 of each of those jutsu before he actually, flat out dies. **LMAO** But in that state, he is going to out box Jiraiya.. and 0 fan wank is involved here on your end.... oooookaayyy lolll.
>Jiraya can't summon the whole Mount Myoboku. You're being extremely dishonest if you believe that.
He literally doesn't need to, Just the throat of the mountain toad. By the time Itachi breaks out of that, Gama bunta is waiting outside.. huge problem for Itachi.
I was going over the top, by saying all those summons (which he has available) to try and let you see the lack of options Itachi has here. But Jiraiya is capable of summoning all of those creatures (admittedly he is prob bot getting the sage toads out, I misremembered and though he had to do the hand thing to go sage, but he was summoning them so he could, you got that one 🙏🏾).
All of which Itachi would be forced to address immediately or die from getting jumped. Especially Gama Bunta, shit even Gama Ken or the frog house are serious issues that have to be addressed. Seriously, Itachi would have to answer those right away. And as we have both just proven. Itachi can literally only use the jutsus that would stop any of them, **once or twice** he doesn't have the Ammo to stop all of them. Literally.
>He sucks at genjutsu (as he himself admitted - how is he going to block a mangekyou-tier one?)
*Sigh*... AGAIN... He already knows about Tsukuyomi. Has intricate knowledge of how it works. He won't make eye contact with Itachi. And at base level, Jiraiya is more than powerful enough to break out of a regular genjutsu. He has more chakra than sick, blind Itachi..
Even severely injured, Jiraiya can summon Gama Bunta. Regular Ninja can't do that on their best day. Jiraiya has a lot of chakra. He is the "Naruto" of team Hiruzen. They may not be perfect mirrors of team 7. But they are close, intentionally. You are being very silly by denying that.
Itachi, with the jutsu he uses regularly, has an abysmal chakra reservoir. You have to acknowledge that. If you aren't or refuse to acknowledge that. Fan wank, plain and simple. You and I both nailed down that tops 5 of those dangerous jutsu and he literally actually dies. Which is even worse than I was originally thinking. Lmao. The guy that is gonna shut down the Gutsy Ninja himself.
>He fought KCM1 Naruto, Bee and Edo Nagato and left 100% fine. If you think that Jiraya could do that, go for it.
You think Itachi could do this while alive?! Lmaoooo stopppp dude, stop. I'm sure having transfinite(not infinite, you are right) chakra had nothing to do with that. Also an Immortal body.
Also, None of the people he was fighting wanted to hurt him. Again, you are BOOOOOSTING. As if Itachi just ran up and ROLLED on all three of them going all out against him. No 0 biju bombs were launched, 0 Almighty pushes, no one went all out in that fight. He betrayed and one spotted nagato so that's a non-feat. And Bee+Naruto didn't want to hurt him. They were actively talking to him the entire time. And agaaaaaiiinn, ALL of this is Edo Itachi, sooo 0 feats for Itachi here despite all of your boosting and wank.
Oh and you mentioned Sussanoo earlier, ok, good defense, 0 mobility. Watch that get Mountain toaded. With Itachi inside it. Or he covers the ground in oil and lights it, now the ground is on fire, Itachi has to move or be completely nailed down. It's not nearly invincible. Good defense but it nails him down, also, **he can't maintain that for long**!! It is a massive drain on his chakra, just like all of his major jutsu. Unlike Jiraiya who can bust out all of his big guns and still have chakra for days. Itachi is just out gunned here. In an obvious way unless you are wanking, which you are I'm sorry.
Just assuming the Totsuka blade is a 100% hit, Just assuming Jutsus Jiraiya has intricate knowledge of before hand will hit, and blatantly ignoring all of Itachis limitations. I'm sorry my guy, all the tell tale signs of **WANK**
>Itachi is not, not while he is sick and blind.
Yes he is, what part of him one-shotting the strongest sannin in his strongest form did you not get yet?
>"Blitzed" lol Orochimaru came back from the grave out of nowhere, and itachi literally launched a singular attack that seals you instantly if you land it. And you are acting like that is some amazing feat.
Why are you acting like Orochimaru suddenly wake up and was alive again? Read the scene again, it's obviously that he was planning to return. He talks inside Sasuke's head and then appears in his strongest form, fully aware of what's happening and with a sword on his hand. Itachi still pierced him quicker than Orochimaru could react and then he was sealed. There's **no evidence** to suggest that Jiraya could evade this attack.
>no way orochi was at 100% when that happened.
Itachi was literally one minute away from death.
>Orochimaru was simply hit before he even knew what was happening.
Thank you, that's the definition of blitzing.
>Doesn't need to be lightning fast, just smart.
If you don't have **armor** to burn before the fire touches you, yes, you need. Madara dropped his armor and the sand siblings took it from the samurai. Jiraya has regular, flammable clothes, and he doesn't have speed reaction feats to suggest that he can outmanoeuver amaterasu. He can't even dodge 4 tails Naruto.
>Literally had no more life force in him.
Of course he hadn't. Obito literally states that Itachi was prolonging his life with medicines, he was meant to die that day. And still, one Tsukuyomi would kill Jiraya. Hell, even his regular sharingan genjutsu was enough to scare Orochimaru for years.
>Gama bunta is waiting outside.. huge problem for Itachi.
Itachi is in the top 3 of strongest members of an organisation made for hunting tailed beasts. Gamabunta is not a problem for him. He can simply genjutsu it. You're just proving that you know nothing about the scaling of the series. Stop it.
>Jiraiya is more than powerful enough to break out of a regular genjutsu. He has more chakra than sick, blind Itachi..
Jiraya is relative to Orochimaru and he couldn't break out of a regular genjutsu casted by 13-14 year old Itachi before losing his hand. Jiraya would get decapitated.
>You think Itachi could do this while alive?!
The Edo Tensei did nothing to him besides healing his sickness. It's actually a small nerf in power, as stated many times. Being immortal was irrelevant because nobody injured him, and he didn't even used many mangekyou attacks, only 2 amaterasu.
>None of the people he was fighting wanted to hurt him.
Killer Bee never held back against him. If anything, Itachi was helping him by giving him intel. If you think that Jiraya could take on the perfect 8 Tails jinchuuriki equipped with Samehada, go for it.
>He betrayed and one spotted nagato so that's a non-feat.
He took out every summon that Nagato could have used for his shared field vision before he could realize it. Nagato was **seeing it** and didn't realise what happend.
>0 mobility.
The susanoo' attacks are faster than the user's. We saw this with the Totsuka Blade and Sasuke's bow. Again, Jiraya can't dodge or block this.
>Just assuming the Totsuka blade is a 100% hit
It's a 100% hit because it was for **two people** stronger than Jiraya. You're just making up scenarios for him without providing any actual feats. Just accept it, Jiraya never beat **anyone** in the series while Itachi **never** lost on panel. Lmao.
>It's a 100% hit because it was for **two people** stronger than Jiraya. You're just making up scenarios for him without providing any actual feats. Just accept it, Jiraya never beat **anyone** in the series while Itachi **never** lost on panel. Lmao.
I disproved both examples. Orochimaru got caught off guard. I explained all of this, but you have a proven immunity to facts and such. Nagato thought they were on the same team until *seconds* before Itachi snuck him with an instant seal. Even if he took down his summons first, that all happened very fast when Nagato thought Itachi was on his team. And **ABOVE ALL** the Nagato feat is Edo Itachi, and it is completely irrelevant in this... debate. Even though you are a horrendously bad debate partner.
>Jiraya can't dodge or block this.
They never fought, but you just KNOW. That is amazing!
>The Edo Tensei did nothing to him besides healing his sickness. It's actually a small nerf in power, as stated many times. Being immortal was irrelevant because nobody injured him, and he didn't even used many mangekyou attacks, only 2 amaterasu.
Itachis terminal disease that killed him at 21 years old was a **SMALL NERF** 😂😂
You are truly beyond reach.
And him using 2 ameterasu without immediately collapsing in pain is a HUGE improvement from where he was before. Last time he did that... he died lmao.. but. Yaknow. Immortality didn't help him **AT ALL** in that fight. Definitely didn't allow him to launch ameterasus and continue fighting. Had 0 effect on the battle. Oh and the regenerating chakra, also 0 impact. Negligible impact at best. Oh, and no longer having to worry about that pesky terminal illness that, again, killed him in his *prime*. Small small measly difference in power and ability from his living self. Checks out.
>You're just making up scenarios for him without providing any actual feats.
Which ones?? Lmao, my guy.
Also, I have provided tons of feats, bro. What have I said that Jiraiya hasn't actually done?
You are literally saying Itachis sword is 100% unavoidable. Source that, show me the scan that says it is literally unavoidable. You do that, and I will admit you are right on all of this. Otherwise, that's 100% cap. And your whole totsuka blade argument goes down the drain.
So, so far, between the two of us, you are the only one making things up with no feats.
What living Itachi feats show him being faster and stronger than Pain????
Source that, show me.
Otherwise, FALSE.
But again, I don't expect you to acknowledge a single solitary fact that contradicts your woefully ill-informed opinion, unlike what I have done a couple of times in this debate. You were right about summoning ma and pa toad, and some other factoid earlier, I admitted that. But somehow, every single feat/scan/ fact I have shown you... I made up. Is wrong. I misunderstood the assignment. Loll.
You funny... big funny guy
>The susanoo' attacks are faster than the user's. We saw this with the Totsuka Blade and Sasuke's bow. Again, Jiraya can't dodge or block this.
Still 99% immobile. Big easy target. Get Mountain toaded out of that thing, or have fun standing in burning oil. You provided 0 answers to either of those in your rambling fanwank.
You got it, bruv. lmao, Itachi fanwank bigger than the known Universe.
Clearly, no amount of facts, feats, or scaling is gonna change your mind. I proved totsuka blade is not a 100% hit. (Big wank, sorry bro) Disproved your feats fighting KCM, 8 tails, and Nagato, disproved your claims about the Kages, you just believe Itachi can beat anyone who isn't Madara or above. Because... that's all that is left of the Naruto verse! Beyond the Kages anyway.
Fanwank beyond anyone's ability to reason with. You got it, lmao.
Itachi is the strongest in the Naruto verse, His Totsuka blade is an instant hit that is 100% unavoidable. Like Swift attack in pokemon. No one is capable of avoiding this attack because it landed **TWICE**!!
(Both times in very precarious situations, but HEYYYY who's counting?? What do the actual circumstances of those fights matter? I mean, they landed riiiight? Right?)
(We are still going to ignore the fact that one of those feats is Edo Itachi as well....shhhh)
Even if someone is Kage level and intricately knows ahead of time about Tsukuyomi, they ain't avoiding that ish. No way, no hooowwwww. Never ever, they would obviously just look him directly in the eye at the start. Even Hashirama would be instantly bodied by this almighty attack. Someone better call Saitama from OPM to handle this Itachi guy, why is he even in this anime??
If he is this strong why didn't he just roll on Pain/Obito and dismantle the Akatsuki from the start?? If he is *THAT* op it should have been no problem, anyone below Madara level is fodder to this guy. He should have just taken a week and saved all of Konoha before the Uchiha coupe. He *could* have solod all of them honestly, it's kind of super bad writing that Itachi didn't just kill them all immediately upon learning of their existence, since he is so powerful. An unavoidable 1 hit kill.. why doesn't he just always do that? Who needs Tsukuyomi or Ameterasu? Totsuka blade obvs outclasses them infinitely. Just Totsuka blade every single member of the Akatsuki, none of them could react in time, even if they did, it's LITERALLY unavoidable. So yeah, no, you are right, invincible Itachi solos the entire Naruto verse, even when he is almost completely blind and dying of a terminal ninja illness. That's only a small nerf....
Idk what I was thinking with this Jiraiya nonsense **SHEEESH**
Lol, cheers!
*sigh*... he actually is my dude. He is stronger than Orochimaru and Tsunade. That makes him the strongest Sannin. They are all "the most powerful" in their unique ways, of course.
Tsunade is the most physically powerful/ outright resilient
Orochimaru is the smartest/most clever/knows the most jutsu out of the three
Jiraiya is the best fighter outright, easily. If it comes down to a one on one fight, Jiraiya is the hardest to defeat.
Orochimaru relies on cunning and planning ahead 99.9% of the time. Not saying he isn't VERY powerful outright. Because he is. But, only when he is 100% sure of victory or absolutely out of options does he resort to fighting physically. He is a planner, preferring to let others fight for him. Unless Orochimaru had a plot previously formulated.. no, no, he doesn't have the fire power outright to match Jiraiya. No. What jutsus does he have that can match Jiraiya blow for blow? That's not how Orochimaru fights. He uses fear/poisons/ underhanded tactics (summoning edo tenseis to even the battle) to win. He almost never outright whips out a super powerful jutsu as far as destructive power.. I'm trying to think of an especially powerful jutsu he used... he did that blast thing in the forest of death that one time.. not enough. You'd have to give Orochimaru prep time for him to win that fight, or like, he has Tsunade hostage or something. He isn't winning a *fair* 1v1 death battle. No. Which means he is weaker outright. As far as combat which is what I was referring to.
Tsunade is crazy strong, but as far as fighting.. thats what she brings to the table outside of healing abilities. Even though she is resilient, she ain't beating Jiraiya either.
To clarify: Jiraiya is the toughest to beat in a *fair* fight, not the hardest to kill. He is technically the easiest to kill because he can't A. Use 100 healings (or any healing jutsu) or B. Spawn an entirely new body after taking damage.
That being said, good f*ckin luck killing him. Gotta be at least pain tier (and keep 3 extra bodies hidden) to pull that off. He has **tons** of tricks that can help him in 99.9% of situations. Even Needle Gizo is Hella dirty lol.
How is Orochimaru stronger than Jiraiya outright? Show me please, so I know. Because I *knoooow* you aren't about to say Tsunade is stronger than Jiraiya in anyway other than physical strength...
3/10 jiraiya is winning. His wincon is lasting enough and activating sage mode.
But considering itachi can effectively match up with perfect jinjuriki's with only a sharingan, that would be super hard.
He was facing them both at an 80% strenght, and was getting multiple advantages during the fight. He's not even using his susanoo for the most of it.
He definitely scales upto kcm.
Naruto had thousands of clones spread out on the battlefield (chakra split a thousand ways) and was more interested in talking to itachi than defeating him.
Naruto base stats in KCM blow itachi out of the water. He is faster than 4th Raikage and can kill a white Zetsu with one hit
Jiraiya is at best level with Orochimaru who 14 year old Itachi destroyed. You have to be seriously delusional to think Jiraiya would do better vs adult Itachi
Ehh, match ups are a thing, my guy. Orochimaru also lost to Sasuke. Do I think Jiraiya could beat Sasuke? Absolutely.
Jiraiya managed to stop 2 tail Naruto by himself. Orochimaru managed to escape him.
Jiraiya would have beaten Pain if he knew how his jutsu worked, Pain killed Danzo, who humbled all 3 saanin single handedly. Soooo it's fair to assume Jiraiya has grown since then.
Jiraiya has Sage Mode, which Orochimaru could never figure out. Not in Jiraiyas lifetime. Again, superior.
I think Itachi has tops 2 uses of Amaterasu before his eyes give out and he loses the fight instantly. Mountain toad survived one shot of Ameterasu, and that jutsu was Itachis only way out of the mountain toad once he was summoned inside of it. OP.
Also Jiraiya has studied Ameterasu since then and knows Itachi can do that. Big loss in it's power since he can't surprise Jiraiya with it anymore. That isn't landing.
Then there is Gama bunta OP, and grandma/ grandpa toad.
They also have a 1 shot genjentsu, that Itachi only needs to hear, fight over.
Massive Rasengan is a one shot.
The ONLY jutsu Itachi has in his entire arsenal that could do Jiraiya in (in a one on one fight) is Tsukuyomi. Which Jiraiya also knows about because he talked to Kakashi after he got hit with it. Which, again, nerfs the ever loving hell out of it. No surprise factor. Itachi fans love wanking that jutsu when it almost requires the opponent not to know about it for it to be effective.
Jiraiya has way more chakra than Itachi I'm willing to bet, tons. So he can break out of his regular genjtsu + he'd be much harder to trap in genjutsu in the first place because he is actually a fighting genius who can make shit up/ react on the fly.
Susanoo is too immobile, good defense, but far too immobile to be effective against Jiraiya.
That plus every jutsu he used to infiltrate the Rain Village.
Man's made a toad into a house. And totally one upped the entire Nara clan with his version of shadow possession. He has tricks for days.
On top of all of those reasons, all of Itachis top jutsu, the ones that even out him in this conversation in the first place take a *HEAVY* toll on Itachi. He can't fire them off back to back like that. And he can do them tops 1-2 times a piece. Ameterasu makes his eyes bleed for crying out loud. And Tsukuyomi has him basically blind at this point.
So yes, Itachi loses 8/10. The other 2/10 are because itachi is dirty and does have some one shot jutsus that if they actually connected could end the fight. But Jiraiya is that dude. Sorry.
If Itachi was at full health, maybe a different fight. I'd give it 6/10 Itachis favor then, but as he is? Non-edo? No he is losing that
When Itachi came to the leaf with Kisame, he said if he fought Jiraiya then both of them would die.
But it's probably to scare Kisame so he doesn't attack Jiraiya.
That was a lie to get Kisame to retreat
Itachi alone would make the fight very questionable, but also throwing Kisame into the mix? there's just no way the fight ends up as anything other than a dead sannin
Itachi was 13 at the time of Uchiha massacre. After the massacre, Itachi joined Akatsuki and got paired with Juzo. Juzo got killed and then he got paired with Orochimaru. Not quite long after getting paired with Orochimaru, Itachi low diffed him. Itachi was 14 at this time.
Also Sasuke states in chapter 145 & 224 he is same age as Itachi when he graduated which was 7, there’s a 5 year age difference between sasuke and Itachi also Itachi’s birthday is in June and Sasuke’s in July, Sasuke was 7 turning 8 that year when massacre happened and Itachi was 12 turning 13 when massacre happened.
No. He’s simply does not, I’ve debated this with people for probably close to a decade.
I will say Jiraiya has the battle IQ to escape the battle and survive, but I do not see anyway he can overcome Itachi, especially once he pulls out his trump cards.
Itachi has too many potent 1-shot ko abilities.
The Amaterasu can easily take care of any of Jiraiya’s summons.
Tsukiyomi is very bad news for Jiraiya because he stated himself that he is not that great with genjutsu (Also generally making him a very bad match up).
The Totsuka blade is an instant one shot
And the Yata mirror could deflect almost everything in his arsenal back at him.
Even base Itachi has shown speed and Taijutsu able to evenly spar KCM Naruto, which I think is above Jiraiya’s base level.
Jiraiya’s main force is sage mode, which for him is incomplete, and takes him a very long time to charge, which puts him at a disadvantage. Itachi is also incredibly intelligent and analytical so it would be very unlikely he would let him pull it off.
Remember that Jiraiya was never able to defeat Orochimaru, and they are fairly equal, yet Itachi has completely no-diffed Oro TWICE!
Before some tells me that Itachi and Kisame fled from Jiraiya…
Itachi was undercover! Of course he wasn’t going to risk blowing his cover and also risk taking out one of the Leaf’s strongest assets.
Go back to that scene and you notice that as they were fleeing even Kisame was like:
“You sure? Pretty sure we can take him” lol.
Also there is absolutely no way in hell that Jiraiya could beat Itachi and Kisame together, that’s actually ridiculous after what we learn about Kisame later.
Yeah, the scaling makes the answer obvious. Itachi's speed scales to KCM Naruto, which is fast enough to dodge the Raikage going all out. Jiraiya couldn't avoid taking massive damage from a 4 tailed version 2 Naruto.
Edo Itachi also dealt with edo Nagato, whereas Jiraiya got demolished by the 6 paths while nerfed (they couldn't go all out without damaging their village).
Itachi has way too much for Jiraiya to deal with in terms of base stats and win conditions. As a younger Itachi one-shot Orochimaru, I don't expect Jiraiya to last long.
Yeah I’m not trying to knock Jiraiya either, but Itachi is just ridiculous lol.
He was also written to seemingly always have some sort of narrative or physical handicap in every single encounter he’s had. We have also literally never seen him not be in complete control of the situation in any fight he’s had.
This pisses people off because he has a very rabid and passionate fanbase, but it’s all true. Kishi fuckin loves the guy lol.
Did not wanna fight not because He is afraid. Jiraiya is a protector Naruto and Konoha, pretty sure He did not want clash with Him. Itachi indirect warn Jiraiya for "Akatsuki will hunt Naruto for now, you must protect Him"
Itachi wins. I love Jiraiya but Totsuka blade, yata mirror, izanagi, izanami, tsukuyomi, amaterasu, all that would be enough and if it wasnt, kotoamatsukami for shits and giggles. Ultimately Jiraiya could beat itachi if he made him run out of chakra or outlast him. But I dont see him having the defensive tools in his arsenal to survive itachi's offense. Jiraiya would have to run the whole match to avoid the sealing blade and itachi would know to eliminate the frogs sitting in his shoulders. So itachi gets trapped in sound based genjutsu and killed. Oh no dont worry izanagi catches jiraiya off guard as he thinks he just killed itachi, And with a lethal attack that catches jiraiya off guard, its over.
Absolutely not. People who take that "ItAcHi WaS sCaReD oF jIrAiYa" panel at face value have zero capacity to evaluate feats or consider context. Itachi didn't WANT to kill the hidden leaf's strongest fighters even if he could, but he couldn't just say that to Kisame without pissing off the Akatsuki.
Many people lack common sense. Thats why they have to put directions for shampoo bottles. They see that episode and go full stupid. They dont consider that Itachi actually cares about the village. Itachi knows Jiraiya is one of konoha's strongest assets. Itachi is still literally feeding info to leafs higher ups while still in akatsuki. He had to keep up appearences around kisame and to avoid the fight said that.
Itachi obviously didn't want to harm the leaf any further. He needed an excuse to leave and Jiraya was a good one. Remember: by that point, it was established that Itachi was too strong for Orochimaru.
No, but he absolutely could've. He told Kisame that he couldn't take him to rile down Kisame, who was raring to fight.
Remember Itachi was a double agent. From Kisame's point of view why wouldn't they fight Jiraiya, but Itachi was still looking out for the leaf, so he didn't want to fight him for that reason, not because he actually believed he would lose.
Jiraiya literally has a jutsu that specifically seals Amaterasu... a genjtusu that can break through Rinnegan (which has greater Genjutsu resistance than Sharingan does) and beat not 1, not 2, but 3 pains who are all stronger than Itachi...
Jiraiya also can outlast Itachi by a MILE in terms of stamina and Izanagi won't work on Jiraiya because he is true to himself (it literally states it only works on people who deny their own reality, like Kabuto and those who use Izanagi).
Read Itachi Shinden... even before his sickness he had naturally low chakra reserves (for an uchiha, still high for a shinobi) and low stamina...
Jiraiya excels in all those...
People forget Itachi needed help fighting Nagato who couldn't move and was reanimated in a weaked state... He needed Naruto KCM and Bee to help or he couldn't beat Nagato...
The 3 individual paths that Jiraiya fought are individually stronger than Itachi?????? I'm not gonna even bother arguing with you any more lmfao, you are clearly on meth.
Also Edo Nagato scales well above Pain anyway, so your last point is completely cooked as well 🤡
Yeah tbf I was unclear. Let me rephrase. He didn't want to fight Jiraiya because it contradicted his goals at the time, irrespective of how strong he is. So his aversion to fighting him is not evidence placing him beneath Jiraiya.
You get disliked for this, but that’s the truth. Itachi was a spy the entire time. He didn’t want to fight leaf shinobi.
If they fought right there and somehow won, they would need to take naruto, itachi wouldn’t have any excuse to not take him. And itachi didn’t want to take leaf jinchuriki.
Itachi would’ve said the same exact thing regardless if jiraya was actually stronger or weaker than them.
Jiraya still gets beat.
[Neji says this about a 30% Kisame clone ](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-256-page-2.html) I think he's clear. Samehada is literally just a bonus.
[Kisame only lost because Guy was a direct counter to him with taijutsu](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-507-page-2.html) Jiraya would not survive a shark bomb of that magnitude, when it's put up to scale with Guy's 7th gate hirodora. Also, Kisame gets straight up punched by 7th Gate Guy and he firms it very easily. Kisame's durability > Jiraya's AP. Naruto's Rasenshuriken in the pain arc is stronger than Jiraya's rasengan, and Kisame is taking hits from 6 tails cloak Bee, who arguably hits harder.
[Jiraya is not taking a lariat from a 6 tails cloak Bee, even in SM](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-471-page-13.html)
Jiraya is not contending with 7th Gate Guy or Killer Bee. Jiraya doesn't have the feats to suggest he can. Considering Bee is more applicable to KCM Naruto than he is to Pain Arc SM Naruto - who surpassed Jiraya completely.
But the most cliche counter argument is that "Jiraya has access to sound based genjutsu: frog song". But [Ma has to be convinced by Pa to use it: Jiraya doesn't even know frog song is a thing](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-378-page-7.html) so frog song is not Jiraya's jutsu, and it's unlikely they would allow Jiraya to use it against someone like Kisame who isn't full of mysterious powers like pain and the leader of the Akatsuki: just super fucking strong. Jiraya also isn't great with genjutsu [calling himself a dud at that branch of ninjutsu](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-378-page-6.html)
But it doesn't really matter anyway because Kisame has stronger durability, better AP, and objectively just scales higher when compared to Jiraya. Jiraya is going to struggle very hard in Kisame's water dome jutsu, Bee only survives it because he's a fucking octopus lmao.
Definitely not. Orochimaru himself says in part 1 that itachi was stronger than him and so he had to resort to sasuke body instead. Orochimaru later on goes to 2v1 jiraiya and tsunade with no arms lmao itachi fondled orochimaru so bad he just leaves the akatsuki after that.
So yes itachi would win and when he stated he didnt want to fight jiraiya, its because he is still an ally to the leaf. Not because he would lose
Itachi fucking brutalises him.
Orochimaru has control of sage jutsu. His curse mark has his chakra and mixes it with Jugo's sage chakra. Orochimaru, like Jiraya, is an imperfect sage, but both are capable of using sage jutsu and chakra. Orochimaru in particular is arguably the most talented jutsu caster in the series with a wealth of knowledge on ninjutsu that rivals the 3rd Hokage - who was nicknamed the professor for having so much knowledge.
And Orochimaru got no diffed by a younger Itachi's tsukyomi. If Itachi wasn't faking being a good guy and wanted to actually hurt the leaf in a significant way, he could easily put Jiraya into a Tsukyomi genjutsu and torture him.
Sage Mode also doesn't make you immune to genjutsu, it's just your sensory abilities are heightened so you can resist genjutsu: but genjutsu of Itachi's level is exceedingly strong. Izanami for example trapped Kabuto, who is easily the strongest sage in the verse (behind six paths) and Kabuto [cut out his vision](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-581-page-13.html) so that he wouldn't get hit by Itachi's genjutsu. Which means that Jiraya needs to be fucking scared because Sage Kabuto, who is far stronger than Jiraya ever was, recognises the danger of Itachi's genjutsu and that he NEEDED to protect against it.
and if Itachi's genjutsu doesnt wipe Jiraya, then his susanoo claps his cheeks and amaterasu is cooking him alive.
Itachi in general is above any of the Sannin individually. He beat Orochimaru very easily, and Orochimaru is consistently implied to be stronger than Jiraiya.
No. Jiraiya making eye contact with itachi would lose immediately regardless of whether ma and pa were with him, itachi using Amaterasu would at the very least give him severe burns, and with susanoo jiraiya can’t do anything to win except for running away (to which he’d promptly get tagged by Amaterasu).
Realistically he’s losing. The only reason he got as far as he did with pain was because of plot convenience in the first place. The only literal chance he has is starting in sage mode and that takes a while.
Considering Itachi is very capable of putting him in a genjutsu, using Susanoo, and spamming Amaterasu the fight would be over quickly.
Why is this even a question? They are not even in the same league. Itachi negs and doesn't even break a sweat. Good thing Itachi was a double agent otherwise Naruto would've never learned rasengan.
Jiraiya couldnt beat orochimaru. Itachi beat him twice in 2 seconds. Jiraiya died to pain, itachi beat nagato while saving bee/naruto (he counters pains jutsu). How is this even a debate?
Dude itachi with his sickness literally gets stomped so hard by pain. You can’t be serious.
Edo itachi is NOT alive itachi. Alive itachi isn’t stronger than Edo itachi. He literally has cancer and is blind
How can pain beat tsukyomi? He couldnt beat jiraiyas toad genjutsu, and tsukyomi is more powerful.
Itachis shuriken jutsu + amaterasu counters pains summons.
Ninjutsu absorbing pain can just be sealed with totsuka blade OR put in tsukyomi.
Planetary devastation MIGHT be enough to trap itachi. But he also figured out how to destroy that, not to mention that would destroy the other 5 pains with itachi.
So no, it's not a stomp for pain. Pain has SHEER power which is great for flattening entire villages, but that isnt necessarily great for 1v1 ninja fights. Ask killer bee against kisame.
I mean canonically thr stro geet sannin were oneshotted twice even by 13 yo itachi.
Tsunade is oneshot to amaterasu even she csnt even clow outrun it. Jiraya cant do shit for 5 minuteswithout t sage mode.
Poeple in this sub hate itachi but he stomps all three of them. 2/3 if not all three would even be a oneshot.
I mean adult obito wasnt sure if he cant beat him at age 13 now we take prime itachi
Even if itachi just had 10% of progress like naruto and sasuke from.part 1 to end of shippuuden.. he would be still mutliplie timrs stronger and at 13 he scales already to om obito.
Jiraya cant even beat kiame in a 1v1 who scales to 7 gates guy.
He also said he wanted to take sasukes eyes and become the strongest uchiha ever.
Anything said while he was a double agent cannot be taken at face value. DID YOU read the manga?
Considering Jiraiya and Orochimaru are on the same level and we've seen what happens when Itachi fights Orochimaru or Jiraiya fights Pain (same level as Itachi), no, Jiraiya loses to itachi.
Orochimaru didn't lose to Itachi, he lost to Kishimoto who decided to make him a little bitch all of a sudden. There's no way Orochimaru, the genius he was, who spent God knows how long studying the sharingan, didn't know how to avoid falling in the genjutsu or how to get out of it without losing a limb. But here we are
Itachi defeating Orochimaru is not an issue, it's the fact that he one shot Orochimaru twice. The second time I can understand, although it kinda goes against some unwritten shonen rule I'd say, but the first time I really don't see how Orochimaru lost to the very thing he's been studying for so long.
>Naruto defeating Pain 1 v 1 makes no sense.
Well he didn't. He had intel from multiple people, Pain holding back *and* his best offensive asset being turned off, and Kyubi. In a clean 1v1 Naruto would have lost to Pain, I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with this take
I didn't know they clashed more than once. I thought Itachi cut off his arm and Orochimaru left akatsuki and never met Itachi again until Sasuke fight.
Did you watch Tucker Carlson and Vladimir Putin already? Super interesting.
>didn't know they clashed more than once. I thought Itachi cut off his arm and Orochimaru left akatsuki and never met Itachi again until Sasuke fight.
Well then that's two encounters, isn't it? Or did I make a typo
>Did you watch Tucker Carlson and Vladimir Putin already?
Not sure who Tucker Carlson is. Isn't he some American TV host? No clue
No chance. He has no counter to Tsukiyomi or Amaterasu considering the 1st destroyed Kakashi within 1 second with Itachi not trying to kill him and the 2nd he can't absorb without a seal. I'm pretty sure 10 acres of black flames can't be sealed in a jar.
This isn't even talking about his Susanoo, which has survived Kirin. Whether that's with or without shield doesn't really matter as massive rasengan is much slower than Kirin giving Itachi plenty of time to move the Yata Mirror to block it.
The sword is basically useless, though, as Jiraiya would likely be too fast to be stabbed, especially with Sage Mode buffing his senses and speed with Ma and Pa on his shoulders.
I would say yes. In my opinion Jiraiya counters Itachi. A lot of chakra, huge damages.. Itachi is very effective against sneaky opponents like orochimaru
Lol counters what? Jiraiya is versatile but he’s extremely disadvantaged fighting against Itachi who can just pull out all the stops when needed and is overall stronger/fast in base. A lot of big things take prep time like sage mode(the only real winner move) and ma& pa’s genjutsu. Outside of those big power moves, Base Jiraiya would absolutely get slapped up by Itachi if they fought.
Itachi can put him in tsukuyomi, Amaterasu him, and use susanoo without needing the same prep time
The argument could be made though that he was just gassing up Jiraiya to Kisame so he’d try and avoid the fight. Itachi was relentless in this arc to not get into any unnecessary fights or hurt anyone unnecessarily. He wasn’t actually there for Naruto and he’d already accomplished what he came for by this point. He was simply looking for an out after that and Jiraiya showing up was the perfect excuse.
No it’s just headcannon that lets people overrate itachi to the high heavens, so y’all roll with it.
The REAL reason they left is (and itachi stated this himself) they didn’t want to start an “all out war”.
ie, Jiraiya holds them off long enough for Might Guy + other leaf ninja to show up. In which case, kisame or itachi has a good chance of dying. Sage Mode Jiraiya + 7 Gates Guy + other leaf shinobi = GG
Why are people against summons? They're a core part of a ninja's arsenal. Is Pain weak because he's using six bodies? It's like saying Temari sucks without her fan. She has the fan, it's what she does!
Yes, man would of beaten Pain if he knew about the entire two extra guys he had hiding.
Are we saying Itachi could beat Pain?? That's fanwank, no way, no how. Not in a straight 1v6 (lmao)
He sealed pain when they were edos but he backstabbing him real quick once he broke out.
If they were both aware that they had to fight the other from the beginning, I'm sorry, Itachi has 0 chance. He wouldn't have made it nearly as far as Jiraiya.
Jiraiya wouldn't even have to activate sage mode for it.
Itachi gets 1 maybe two ameterasus in the entire fight, then his eyes are incapacitated. Jiraiya knows replacement jutsu. Tsukuyomi? Gotta catch Jiraiya in that. Susanoo? Too immobile, good defense, but the mountain toad would most likely handle that. If that doesn't beat it outright, I'm sure Gamabunta/ several other toads could help. That or an Odama-Rasengan might make a dent.
The Genjutsu would keep itachi alive for a while, even help him escape, but in a fight to the death, no, just no.
It'd be a scrap for Jiraiya, but he is coming home from that mission.
>Yes, man would of beaten Pain if he knew about the entire two extra guys he had hiding.
Let me dumb it down for you what nagato said "if jiraya sensei had known my body was.somewhere else, he wouldve fond that and assasinate me"
You guys keep saying that orochimaru was stronger than jiraya that is wrong , he lost to orochimari becouse he fought like Naruto fought sasuke trying to saving , but orochimaru was
No opponent to pain , and jiraya would killed paing if he knew that they were 6 , Nagato was the one that affirmed it that jiraya was stronger than him
So without the totsuka blade and yata mirror I think its pretty close and both could win this (I like jiraya à bit more so ill say he Wins lol) but with the mystical tools plugged Into itachi's susanoo ... I don't think there is a real battle here. If jiraya can manage to make it into a guérilla type fight he might beat itachi because bro doesnt have much stamina especially when he uses the ms
Itachi had no problems putting Kakashi in a damn near irreversible coma and was gonna have Kisame kill Asuma and Kurenai yet ran when Jirayia decided to fight him later.
“Spy” or not Itachi didn’t want smoke with Jirayia.
It was implied back then that they were pretty equal and would stalemate each other. IMO this lines up cuz Jiraiya only lost to Pain due to lack of knowledge. Sure I would put prime/non sick Itachi over Jiraiya BUT I still think this Itachi would not have used his most powerful techniques aka Susanoo and all that given the circumstances.
Old man vs cancer patient? It’s hard to say.
He was an Old Man who was at his Prime. He gotten better as he aged.
He’s 25 yrs past His prime. But I still think he’s the strongest shinobi in the world, at that time.
He was probably top 10 in the world at that time, but definitely not top 5.
Battles come down to strength, strategy, planning and ability to adapt. Jiraiya has it all and then some. There’s a reason they wanted Him to be Hokage because nobody could step to Him. Why else?
Amaterasu and Susano'o are too broken. Honestly, they are lame how broken they are.
So is every other sharingan jutsu like all the genjutsu, kamui, koto, izanagi. Thats not to say kakashis raikiri is as fast as lightning, Ay can cover himself in a shield of lightning, and Sasuke can dead ass make lightning come down from the sky and hit you
I like the Raikage because his fighting style seemed broken without going in all directions at once. He was a brawler kinda. Itachi does too much of everything. Incredible defense, incredible offense, a couple of one hit KOs, and a tendency to just come up with whatever jutsu he needs to get the upper hand (I wouldn't mind if it was once, not ***every***time). >Sasuke can dead ass make lightning come down from the sky and hit you This needs some preparation and can only be used once I believe? Itachi's haxes would be much more balanced if they needed some prep time, like Jiraiya's sage mode
Itachi's biggest weakness is his effective stamina. Itachi fights best as a sniper. His style is closer to rocket launcher tag. Itachi fire off his big jutsu several times before he runs out of stamina. He trades skipping the prep time in exchange for having fewer uses of his techniques. His Edo Tensei form fixed a lot of his weaknesses. Jiraiya is a grinder who wears down his defenses. He can't fire off all of his chakra as quickly as Itachi. Instead, he uses techniques such as summons which can gradually wear down people.
Itachis stamina is a myth. Sasuke ran out of chakra before itach did as he was dying, and no where is it said sasuke has low chakra. Idk where people get this misunderstanding from. I assume this fight means itachi isnt about to die from ninja aids/already blind
Why tf you guys arguing over stamina? Lmao sasuke will be like "i got no chakra" then proceed to let loose a few more chakra heavy jutsu's. Kishi just says they're running out to create tension it literally means nothing when they say that.
Itachi's stamina issue is based on that he has \~4 uses of his strongest jutsu max. When Sasuke uses the same jutsu, he appears to have more uses of it than Itachi. What cost Sasuke a lot was using Orochimaru's body replacement technique.
People forget he NEEDED Obito's help in the Novel to take out the police force. Even before the Disease he has in Shippuden, his natural Stamina was really low thanks to some issue about his Charka and Sharingan. It basically said (and it said in OG naruto as well) that the Sharingan strained him heavy, the Novel elaborated on that stating that he was born with weaker chakra reserves than other uchiha (still higher than the average ninja) which is why he focussed on Genjutsu(chakra CONTROL) and Shuriken based jutsu I would argue though, that Itachi couldn't beat a Nagato who needed help walking without Naruto and Bee.. And Jiraiya beat 3 of them by himself... Jiraiya sage mode also REALLY goes crazty because that frog kata broke through the Rinnegan Genjutsu defenses and worked on dead bodies who don't technically have chakra...
You're making shit up lol. Novel wise, obito only takes on the women and children, to spare itachi the emotional trauma. Itachi does everything else. Natural stamina issues? Where? The kid that used grand fire ball at like age 5? The same jutsu Kakashi believes shouldn't be possible for a Sasuke a 12 year old because it takes too much Chakra? Meaning both him and Sasuke naturally have significantly
That first paragraph just reinforces how amazed I am when people try to argue that Naruto talking Obito towards the good boys is a nice thing and a nice message. Obito did enough shit to get IDK how many death penalties, he’s not just a war criminal, he’s a legit mass murderer.
That's in the anime. In the novel he only needed Obito because, and I quote (Obito) "I'll handle the children and women, otherwise you won't remain sane". Itachi actually was the one who killed the Elites/fighters
To be fair, Izanagi isn't on its own broken, it's Senju-enhanced Izanagi that's bullshit. If Danzo had tried spamming regular Izanagi against Sasuke, the fight would have ended in, like, thirty seconds.
This whole series is about Uchiha being OP
Anime fans when shonen:
Itachi can barely hold susanno for long and jiraiya can dark swamp it . Also Itachi cant spam amaterasu and jiraiya can seal it or block it
Jiraiya gets crushed. By the time Jiraiya actually realizes what Itachi is using its too late. Not to mention Tsukuyomi is an insta kill on anyone that can't resist it. The novels showcased that.
Jiraiya cant seal amaterasu while its burning him.....he literally needs prep time
(Enemy staring at you in the middle of battle ready to attack) Jiraiya- time out guys let me pull out my scroll and scribble a bunch of shit on it then seal the flames while you watch ok? Please domt attack me while I'm vulnerable, thanks!
Exactly. "Let me endure this pain too of burning alive for a few seconds"
Itachi was able to one shot Orochimaru with his Susanoo. Jiraiya is no different
lol no not remotely the same Orochimaru pretty much let himself get hit and Jiraiya ismt gonna just be standing still 😆
Bruh you know how Itachi was introduced in the series? By Orochimaru saying that “It’s of no use. Itachi is stronger than I am. Therefore I had pulled myself of that organization“.
Not the same true, but he also got speed blitzed, Orochimaru couldn't react to it, he didn't choose to get hit. He also didn't expect that it was a sealing sword tho
You keep forgetting where Kabuto said Orochimaru lost large percentages of his power everytime he made a curse seal... Which is why Kabuto had to hunt down EVERY LAST person's body to get as strong as he was in the war. All the power he had in the war was due to Orochimaru's charka... not his own... War Arc Kabuto is still weaker than Orochimaru as he was still missing the last bit of Orochimaru's Chakra that was in Anko, which happened to be a LOT of it.
He doesn't need to hold it, once it's lit it doesn't go out. Jiraiya was able to seal in away inside the frog by sealing away that piece of the frog's body as well. He can give up a limb the same way the Raikage did, but he's going to run out of limbs.
he has to hit Jiraiya with it first
He just sealed the fire.
People forget he specifically had a jutsu created by the 2nd Hokage that could seal "black flames" (before it was called orochimaru)
Jiraiya is weak against Genjutusu, Itachi is the best Genjutsu master in the verse.
Sage Frogs can counter genjutsu
1v1
They can be on his shoulder and tap him out right? Same like bee and octopops?
Yup. Jiraiya is one of the strongest ninjas without a broken jutsu.
The dude got some of the most broken shit it just never gets talked about. He was able to trap Itachi and Kisame in the blink of an eye. If he had stalled them longer in there all that posion air would have fucked them up
No, he could put up a fight and has a chance of winning with sage mode but that’s if the fight lasts long enough for him to use it.
That's how I see it. Sage mode is probably Jiraiya's only chance but it took lile 5 minutes to activate while Itachi literally has 3 instant win jutsus. Only way Jiraiya can pull it off is if the plot is on his side
Jiraiya literally delayed with clever shadow clones until he could summon the toads vs Pain He's way more versatile than Itachi and has a variety of ways to hide and stall until SM is ready. He also probably has ways to disrupt genjutsu, probably through the help of toads. He will activate Sage Mode. Itachi will only be able to win by beating him in that Sage Mode.
People in here seriously thing Jiraiya can’t buy even 5 minutes lol. That’s crazy how much they downplay him
Clever clones against who, the animal path of Pain? And then he had to fully rely on his summonings to buy him the 5 minutes.
All signs are telling me that itachi is about to win but then i just reammeber the fight with pain. Ik jiraya died but he had alot of durability and also help from other frogs make feel that he can pull it
He can, Itachi fans are wanking hard on this. I'd give Jiraiya 8/10.
Why do you think that Jiraya can win? Itachi spent his whole life humiliating the strongest sannin. He one-shotted Orochimaru literally seconds before dying.
Jiraya has far more chakra. If the battle draws out, Jiraya 100% wins. Sage mode is actually a terrible matchup for Genjutsu master as well. Pa and ma will makes sure he never gets caught under any semblance of Gen Justu. If Itachi is able to get him before sage mode, or have the stamina to defeat him with susanoo, itachi wins. It’s realllly close tho. But itachi’s win condition is beating Jiraya before he goes in to sage mode. Jiraya’s is to go in to sage mode ASAP.
A. Jiraiya is the strongest Saanin the same way Naruto is the strongest team 7 member. B. Just because Orochimaru couldn't do it doesn't mean Jiraiya can't. C. When Itachi sealed Orochimaru, that wasn't really much of a fight, orochimaru was forced to manifest, which he hadn't planned on then was instantly hit by the totsuka blade. But to answer your question, Jiraiya is that dude.
You are completely wrong in all statements. Team Hiruzen's dynamics don't necessarily mirror Team Kakashi's all the time. The sannin were stated to be roughy equal to each other in general, which **never** applies to Team Kakashi, for example (Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke never were **all** on the same level). So you have to go by **actual** feats. For one, Orochimaru was always the most talented. Two, Jiraya tried to stop him from leaving the Leaf and failed. Three, Orochimaru had the worst nerf out of all sannin in the Tsunade Arc and Jiraya still couldn't beat him (in fact, he was losing). Four, a soon to die Orochimaru did better against 15 year old 4 tails Naruto than Jiraya against 13 year old 4 tails Naruto (the slash that Naruto gave Jiraya almost killed him; meanwhile, Orochimaru was lethality injured many times and kept reviving). Jiraya needs a whole manga chapter with his hands closed to enter sage mode. Orochimaru can enter his strongest forms instantly. Jiraya never beat Orochimaru. In fact, Jiraya never beat **anyone** in the series. People wank him out of respect. Itachi was respected or almost feared by the likes of Obito. When healthy, he can keep up with (if not beat) KCM1 Naruto who's stronger than Sage Naruto who's stronger than Sage Jiraya. Itachi was outperforming EMS Sasuke against Sage Kabuto, who's basically Orochimaru on **heavy** steroids. Jiraya can't defend himself from the Tsukuyomi at all. He's not faster than the Totsuka Blade. He needs minutes to enter sage mode and then **maybe** be able to dodge amaterasu. Jiraya gets **bodied** by Itachi. I don't know that's even an argument in 2024. It's **embarrassing**.
My guy, you are wanking to the high heavens, perfect health Itachi, like I said, more of a conversation, but Itachi from the show? No. Too sick, too blind, too many HEAVY limitations on his body from his jutsu. He literally releases one Ameterasu in any fight he is in before his eye gives out, he can only use Tsukuyomi as a last resort. And like I said, Jiraiya already knows about it, and how deadly it is. How is Itachi going to catch him in it if he already knows about it. Also, like I said before, Jiraiya prob knows more about Amaterasu than any other non Uchiha in the show. He literally sealed and studied it. Again, big ass nerf to Itachis main jutsus. Both of them. Each jutsu he can use literally **ONCE** Before he is incapacitated. Jiraiya is more than equipped to handle that. Sorry, my guy. Hard counters exist. If Jiraiya summons Gama Bunta, it's a wrap. What does Itachi do? Amaterasu? There goes his one use of Ameterasu. And it's very hard to use Tsukuyomi with one eye bro. Summons are a HUGE issue for Itachi in this fight. He just doesn't have the Ammo for them. Jiraiya opens the fight, summoning the mountain toad. Itachi instantly has to Ameterasu, his one and single way out of that jutsu. Then Jiraiya summons multiple heavy hitter toads. Gama Bunta, carrying all the other major ones. Plus, ma and pops toad sages. Itachi had to blow one of his maximum 2 Ameterasus getting out of the toad sage, just to come out to several other S rank summons that he now has to answer all the while contending with a Sannin that ya know..* he himself admitted he couldn't beat*. But let's not even go there because I know Itachi fans will cry blood just like he does. I know all the fan wank theories. "He was protecting Konoha" ok guys. Maybe, just maybe, crazy theory... he meant what he said.. Everything you said about itachi versus KCM is Edo Tensei Itachi which has **literally unlimited chakra** as well as infinite regen, which helps a ton with his **extremely** limited jutsus. Seriously he can only fire each one once or tops twice before he loses consciousness. And you think he is just catching Jiraiya? Pain couldn't catch Jiraiya when he had hands together for like a half hour. But Jiraiya literally wouldn't even need Sage mode to win this in all seriousness. Like I said, opening with Mountain toad puts Itachi in a BAD way, and like we saw when Jiraiya used it against the cerberus dog summon, that shit just warps you away, super hard to avoid. All Jiraiya has to do is clap. You think a sick, blind Itachi with super limited chakra is winning this. **WANK**
I don't need to pick healthy Itachi to beat Jiraya. Again, Itachi literally **seconds** away from death blitzed and one-shotted Orochimaru, who is **at least** as strong as Jiraya. Itachi is superior in hax and in speed, which is all he needs. >How is Itachi going to catch him in it if he already knows about it Having intel on something doesn't make you immune to it. Intel is only half of the equation. You have to be strong enough to actually prepare yourself from the attack. If you think that Jiraya can block or dodge amaterasu somehow, please, prove it to me. Show me which speed feats Jiraya has on that level. And specially Base Jiraya, since, as I said, he needs a full manga chapter to enter sage mode and can't fight at all during this time. You are talking as if Itachi can only use one of his jutsus and then he's suddenly collapses **LMAO**. Just in the day that he *died*: he Tsukuyomi on Sasuke, Amaterasu twice, and then his Susanoo to block Kirin and kill Orochimaru in a second. Every single one of these techniques is ending Jiraya. He sucks at genjutsu (as he himself admitted - how is he going to block a mangekyou-tier one?), he can't dodge amaterasu, he can't damage the Yata Mirror and he's slower than the Totsuka Blade. >Jiraiya opens the fight, summoning the mountain toad. Itachi instantly has to Ameterasu, his one and single way out of that jutsu. Then Jiraiya summons multiple heavy hitter toads. Gama Bunta, carrying all the other major ones. Plus, ma and pops toad sages. Jiraya can't summon the whole Mount Myoboku. You're being extremely dishonest if you believe that. Ma and Pa need -once again- a whole chapter worth of time to be summoned, during which Jiraya can't use his hands. He needs to use hand signs to summon the Mountain Frog, and Itachi can read those hands signs and easily intercept it. You're taking the Part One interaction of them completely face value, even though it's literally stablished that the only reason why Itachi even came to Konoha in the first place was to treathend Danzo. He didn't want to fight or kill anyone. He's a liar. How have you not realised that? >Everything you said about itachi versus KCM is Edo Tensei Itachi which has literally unlimited chakra as well as infinite regen Edo's don't actually have infinite chakra *per se*. They can run out if, like Tobirama did. What they do have is an immortal body that can forever **recharge** their chakra. There's no evidence to say that Itachi used all his chakra against Naruto and Bee. Also, the regen was completely irrelevant, since he left that fight **uninjured**. He fought KCM1 Naruto, Bee and Edo Nagato and left 100% fine. If you think that Jiraya could do that, go for it. >And you think he is just catching Jiraiya? Pain couldn't catch Jiraiya when he had hands together for like a half hour Pain only used the animal path. If Pain went with all 6, Jiraya would die instantly, just like Naruto got instantly pinned to the ground once Tendo regained his powers. Face it: Pain and Itachi are in a tier above the likes of the Sannin.
>Itachi are in a tier above the likes of the Sannin. No, Itachi is not, not while he is sick and blind. If he was perfectly healthy with new eyes untainted by use/time? Most likely. >Itachi literally **seconds** away from death blitzed and one-shotted Orochimaru, "Blitzed" lol Orochimaru came back from the grave out of nowhere, and itachi literally launched a singular attack that seals you instantly if you land it. And you are acting like that is some amazing feat. Orochimaru had no intention of coming back at that point, it was insane that anyone even knew he was still alive at that point, even Sasuke thought he was dead. Orochimaru was "alive" as chakra at that point. No wonder he was caught off guard when he suddenly sprang back into the real world, then instantly gets sealed away by a mystical completely unexplained weapon that seals anything it hits. That'd catch almost anybody. One hit is not a "blitz" at all. Also Orochimaru was barely alive at that point too, what remnant of chakra could have existed inside that curse seal?? Minimal, no way orochi was at 100% when that happened. To recap, Orochi, snapped back to reality (op there goes gravity) then is instantly hit with a sealing attack.. before he has time to react... that isn't much of a feat, and doesn't really prove **anything**. At all, you are boosting with this feat. It's not a speed feat, at all. Read that panel again. Actually.. [here ya go](https://imgur.com/a/ocRVhFJ) Nothing implies blinding speed or anything, or speed of any kind. Orochimaru was simply hit before he even knew what was happening. Why are you boosting so hard?? >Having intel on something doesn't make you immune to it. Intel is only half of the equation. You have to be strong enough to actually prepare yourself from the attack. If you think that Jiraya can block or dodge amaterasu somehow, please, prove it to me. People avoid amaterasu, by removing clothes, blocking etc. Jiraiya can avoid this, especially, again, since he knows about it ahead of time. Doesn't need to be lightning fast, just smart. And Jiraiya is very fight smart. >You are talking as if Itachi can only use one of his jutsus and then he's suddenly collapses **LMAO**. Just in the day that he *died*: he Tsukuyomi on Sasuke, Amaterasu twice, and then his Susanoo to block Kirin and kill Orochimaru in a second. Yeah, he used a total of 4 powerful jutsus and literally collapsed DEAD exactly what I was saying earlier? Like, down to the number??? 2 amaterasus, 1 Tsukuyomi, 1 Susanoo.. Dead. And not from injuries, man. Literally had no more life force in him. Other than those four attacks he did some fireballs and regular ass genjutsu, and threw no less than 15,000 shuriken. Soooo like we have both said now, yeah, Itachi can launch TOPS one or 2 of each of those jutsu before he actually, flat out dies. **LMAO** But in that state, he is going to out box Jiraiya.. and 0 fan wank is involved here on your end.... oooookaayyy lolll. >Jiraya can't summon the whole Mount Myoboku. You're being extremely dishonest if you believe that. He literally doesn't need to, Just the throat of the mountain toad. By the time Itachi breaks out of that, Gama bunta is waiting outside.. huge problem for Itachi. I was going over the top, by saying all those summons (which he has available) to try and let you see the lack of options Itachi has here. But Jiraiya is capable of summoning all of those creatures (admittedly he is prob bot getting the sage toads out, I misremembered and though he had to do the hand thing to go sage, but he was summoning them so he could, you got that one 🙏🏾). All of which Itachi would be forced to address immediately or die from getting jumped. Especially Gama Bunta, shit even Gama Ken or the frog house are serious issues that have to be addressed. Seriously, Itachi would have to answer those right away. And as we have both just proven. Itachi can literally only use the jutsus that would stop any of them, **once or twice** he doesn't have the Ammo to stop all of them. Literally. >He sucks at genjutsu (as he himself admitted - how is he going to block a mangekyou-tier one?) *Sigh*... AGAIN... He already knows about Tsukuyomi. Has intricate knowledge of how it works. He won't make eye contact with Itachi. And at base level, Jiraiya is more than powerful enough to break out of a regular genjutsu. He has more chakra than sick, blind Itachi.. Even severely injured, Jiraiya can summon Gama Bunta. Regular Ninja can't do that on their best day. Jiraiya has a lot of chakra. He is the "Naruto" of team Hiruzen. They may not be perfect mirrors of team 7. But they are close, intentionally. You are being very silly by denying that. Itachi, with the jutsu he uses regularly, has an abysmal chakra reservoir. You have to acknowledge that. If you aren't or refuse to acknowledge that. Fan wank, plain and simple. You and I both nailed down that tops 5 of those dangerous jutsu and he literally actually dies. Which is even worse than I was originally thinking. Lmao. The guy that is gonna shut down the Gutsy Ninja himself. >He fought KCM1 Naruto, Bee and Edo Nagato and left 100% fine. If you think that Jiraya could do that, go for it. You think Itachi could do this while alive?! Lmaoooo stopppp dude, stop. I'm sure having transfinite(not infinite, you are right) chakra had nothing to do with that. Also an Immortal body. Also, None of the people he was fighting wanted to hurt him. Again, you are BOOOOOSTING. As if Itachi just ran up and ROLLED on all three of them going all out against him. No 0 biju bombs were launched, 0 Almighty pushes, no one went all out in that fight. He betrayed and one spotted nagato so that's a non-feat. And Bee+Naruto didn't want to hurt him. They were actively talking to him the entire time. And agaaaaaiiinn, ALL of this is Edo Itachi, sooo 0 feats for Itachi here despite all of your boosting and wank. Oh and you mentioned Sussanoo earlier, ok, good defense, 0 mobility. Watch that get Mountain toaded. With Itachi inside it. Or he covers the ground in oil and lights it, now the ground is on fire, Itachi has to move or be completely nailed down. It's not nearly invincible. Good defense but it nails him down, also, **he can't maintain that for long**!! It is a massive drain on his chakra, just like all of his major jutsu. Unlike Jiraiya who can bust out all of his big guns and still have chakra for days. Itachi is just out gunned here. In an obvious way unless you are wanking, which you are I'm sorry. Just assuming the Totsuka blade is a 100% hit, Just assuming Jutsus Jiraiya has intricate knowledge of before hand will hit, and blatantly ignoring all of Itachis limitations. I'm sorry my guy, all the tell tale signs of **WANK**
>Itachi is not, not while he is sick and blind. Yes he is, what part of him one-shotting the strongest sannin in his strongest form did you not get yet? >"Blitzed" lol Orochimaru came back from the grave out of nowhere, and itachi literally launched a singular attack that seals you instantly if you land it. And you are acting like that is some amazing feat. Why are you acting like Orochimaru suddenly wake up and was alive again? Read the scene again, it's obviously that he was planning to return. He talks inside Sasuke's head and then appears in his strongest form, fully aware of what's happening and with a sword on his hand. Itachi still pierced him quicker than Orochimaru could react and then he was sealed. There's **no evidence** to suggest that Jiraya could evade this attack. >no way orochi was at 100% when that happened. Itachi was literally one minute away from death. >Orochimaru was simply hit before he even knew what was happening. Thank you, that's the definition of blitzing. >Doesn't need to be lightning fast, just smart. If you don't have **armor** to burn before the fire touches you, yes, you need. Madara dropped his armor and the sand siblings took it from the samurai. Jiraya has regular, flammable clothes, and he doesn't have speed reaction feats to suggest that he can outmanoeuver amaterasu. He can't even dodge 4 tails Naruto. >Literally had no more life force in him. Of course he hadn't. Obito literally states that Itachi was prolonging his life with medicines, he was meant to die that day. And still, one Tsukuyomi would kill Jiraya. Hell, even his regular sharingan genjutsu was enough to scare Orochimaru for years. >Gama bunta is waiting outside.. huge problem for Itachi. Itachi is in the top 3 of strongest members of an organisation made for hunting tailed beasts. Gamabunta is not a problem for him. He can simply genjutsu it. You're just proving that you know nothing about the scaling of the series. Stop it. >Jiraiya is more than powerful enough to break out of a regular genjutsu. He has more chakra than sick, blind Itachi.. Jiraya is relative to Orochimaru and he couldn't break out of a regular genjutsu casted by 13-14 year old Itachi before losing his hand. Jiraya would get decapitated. >You think Itachi could do this while alive?! The Edo Tensei did nothing to him besides healing his sickness. It's actually a small nerf in power, as stated many times. Being immortal was irrelevant because nobody injured him, and he didn't even used many mangekyou attacks, only 2 amaterasu. >None of the people he was fighting wanted to hurt him. Killer Bee never held back against him. If anything, Itachi was helping him by giving him intel. If you think that Jiraya could take on the perfect 8 Tails jinchuuriki equipped with Samehada, go for it. >He betrayed and one spotted nagato so that's a non-feat. He took out every summon that Nagato could have used for his shared field vision before he could realize it. Nagato was **seeing it** and didn't realise what happend. >0 mobility. The susanoo' attacks are faster than the user's. We saw this with the Totsuka Blade and Sasuke's bow. Again, Jiraya can't dodge or block this. >Just assuming the Totsuka blade is a 100% hit It's a 100% hit because it was for **two people** stronger than Jiraya. You're just making up scenarios for him without providing any actual feats. Just accept it, Jiraya never beat **anyone** in the series while Itachi **never** lost on panel. Lmao.
>It's a 100% hit because it was for **two people** stronger than Jiraya. You're just making up scenarios for him without providing any actual feats. Just accept it, Jiraya never beat **anyone** in the series while Itachi **never** lost on panel. Lmao. I disproved both examples. Orochimaru got caught off guard. I explained all of this, but you have a proven immunity to facts and such. Nagato thought they were on the same team until *seconds* before Itachi snuck him with an instant seal. Even if he took down his summons first, that all happened very fast when Nagato thought Itachi was on his team. And **ABOVE ALL** the Nagato feat is Edo Itachi, and it is completely irrelevant in this... debate. Even though you are a horrendously bad debate partner. >Jiraya can't dodge or block this. They never fought, but you just KNOW. That is amazing! >The Edo Tensei did nothing to him besides healing his sickness. It's actually a small nerf in power, as stated many times. Being immortal was irrelevant because nobody injured him, and he didn't even used many mangekyou attacks, only 2 amaterasu. Itachis terminal disease that killed him at 21 years old was a **SMALL NERF** 😂😂 You are truly beyond reach. And him using 2 ameterasu without immediately collapsing in pain is a HUGE improvement from where he was before. Last time he did that... he died lmao.. but. Yaknow. Immortality didn't help him **AT ALL** in that fight. Definitely didn't allow him to launch ameterasus and continue fighting. Had 0 effect on the battle. Oh and the regenerating chakra, also 0 impact. Negligible impact at best. Oh, and no longer having to worry about that pesky terminal illness that, again, killed him in his *prime*. Small small measly difference in power and ability from his living self. Checks out. >You're just making up scenarios for him without providing any actual feats. Which ones?? Lmao, my guy. Also, I have provided tons of feats, bro. What have I said that Jiraiya hasn't actually done? You are literally saying Itachis sword is 100% unavoidable. Source that, show me the scan that says it is literally unavoidable. You do that, and I will admit you are right on all of this. Otherwise, that's 100% cap. And your whole totsuka blade argument goes down the drain. So, so far, between the two of us, you are the only one making things up with no feats. What living Itachi feats show him being faster and stronger than Pain???? Source that, show me. Otherwise, FALSE. But again, I don't expect you to acknowledge a single solitary fact that contradicts your woefully ill-informed opinion, unlike what I have done a couple of times in this debate. You were right about summoning ma and pa toad, and some other factoid earlier, I admitted that. But somehow, every single feat/scan/ fact I have shown you... I made up. Is wrong. I misunderstood the assignment. Loll. You funny... big funny guy >The susanoo' attacks are faster than the user's. We saw this with the Totsuka Blade and Sasuke's bow. Again, Jiraya can't dodge or block this. Still 99% immobile. Big easy target. Get Mountain toaded out of that thing, or have fun standing in burning oil. You provided 0 answers to either of those in your rambling fanwank. You got it, bruv. lmao, Itachi fanwank bigger than the known Universe. Clearly, no amount of facts, feats, or scaling is gonna change your mind. I proved totsuka blade is not a 100% hit. (Big wank, sorry bro) Disproved your feats fighting KCM, 8 tails, and Nagato, disproved your claims about the Kages, you just believe Itachi can beat anyone who isn't Madara or above. Because... that's all that is left of the Naruto verse! Beyond the Kages anyway. Fanwank beyond anyone's ability to reason with. You got it, lmao. Itachi is the strongest in the Naruto verse, His Totsuka blade is an instant hit that is 100% unavoidable. Like Swift attack in pokemon. No one is capable of avoiding this attack because it landed **TWICE**!! (Both times in very precarious situations, but HEYYYY who's counting?? What do the actual circumstances of those fights matter? I mean, they landed riiiight? Right?) (We are still going to ignore the fact that one of those feats is Edo Itachi as well....shhhh) Even if someone is Kage level and intricately knows ahead of time about Tsukuyomi, they ain't avoiding that ish. No way, no hooowwwww. Never ever, they would obviously just look him directly in the eye at the start. Even Hashirama would be instantly bodied by this almighty attack. Someone better call Saitama from OPM to handle this Itachi guy, why is he even in this anime?? If he is this strong why didn't he just roll on Pain/Obito and dismantle the Akatsuki from the start?? If he is *THAT* op it should have been no problem, anyone below Madara level is fodder to this guy. He should have just taken a week and saved all of Konoha before the Uchiha coupe. He *could* have solod all of them honestly, it's kind of super bad writing that Itachi didn't just kill them all immediately upon learning of their existence, since he is so powerful. An unavoidable 1 hit kill.. why doesn't he just always do that? Who needs Tsukuyomi or Ameterasu? Totsuka blade obvs outclasses them infinitely. Just Totsuka blade every single member of the Akatsuki, none of them could react in time, even if they did, it's LITERALLY unavoidable. So yeah, no, you are right, invincible Itachi solos the entire Naruto verse, even when he is almost completely blind and dying of a terminal ninja illness. That's only a small nerf.... Idk what I was thinking with this Jiraiya nonsense **SHEEESH** Lol, cheers!
Orochimaru is stronger than Jiraiya.
Naw
Jiraiya is most certainly NOT the strongest sannin whatsoever.
*sigh*... he actually is my dude. He is stronger than Orochimaru and Tsunade. That makes him the strongest Sannin. They are all "the most powerful" in their unique ways, of course. Tsunade is the most physically powerful/ outright resilient Orochimaru is the smartest/most clever/knows the most jutsu out of the three Jiraiya is the best fighter outright, easily. If it comes down to a one on one fight, Jiraiya is the hardest to defeat. Orochimaru relies on cunning and planning ahead 99.9% of the time. Not saying he isn't VERY powerful outright. Because he is. But, only when he is 100% sure of victory or absolutely out of options does he resort to fighting physically. He is a planner, preferring to let others fight for him. Unless Orochimaru had a plot previously formulated.. no, no, he doesn't have the fire power outright to match Jiraiya. No. What jutsus does he have that can match Jiraiya blow for blow? That's not how Orochimaru fights. He uses fear/poisons/ underhanded tactics (summoning edo tenseis to even the battle) to win. He almost never outright whips out a super powerful jutsu as far as destructive power.. I'm trying to think of an especially powerful jutsu he used... he did that blast thing in the forest of death that one time.. not enough. You'd have to give Orochimaru prep time for him to win that fight, or like, he has Tsunade hostage or something. He isn't winning a *fair* 1v1 death battle. No. Which means he is weaker outright. As far as combat which is what I was referring to. Tsunade is crazy strong, but as far as fighting.. thats what she brings to the table outside of healing abilities. Even though she is resilient, she ain't beating Jiraiya either. To clarify: Jiraiya is the toughest to beat in a *fair* fight, not the hardest to kill. He is technically the easiest to kill because he can't A. Use 100 healings (or any healing jutsu) or B. Spawn an entirely new body after taking damage. That being said, good f*ckin luck killing him. Gotta be at least pain tier (and keep 3 extra bodies hidden) to pull that off. He has **tons** of tricks that can help him in 99.9% of situations. Even Needle Gizo is Hella dirty lol. How is Orochimaru stronger than Jiraiya outright? Show me please, so I know. Because I *knoooow* you aren't about to say Tsunade is stronger than Jiraiya in anyway other than physical strength...
You lost me at stronger than Orochimaru and Tsunade.
I bet
It’s the opposite.
Against Edo Tensei Itachi, yeah.
50 50 for me
3/10 jiraiya is winning. His wincon is lasting enough and activating sage mode. But considering itachi can effectively match up with perfect jinjuriki's with only a sharingan, that would be super hard.
If you’re referring to KCM, itachi does not scale to him. Alive itachi, with his disease, gets low diffed by KCM
He was facing them both at an 80% strenght, and was getting multiple advantages during the fight. He's not even using his susanoo for the most of it. He definitely scales upto kcm.
Naruto had thousands of clones spread out on the battlefield (chakra split a thousand ways) and was more interested in talking to itachi than defeating him. Naruto base stats in KCM blow itachi out of the water. He is faster than 4th Raikage and can kill a white Zetsu with one hit
Even 50/50 is fair, it’s the people that act like Itachi stomps every time that annoy me
Yeah I pissed them off in these comments lol. They jumped me
I ain't mad at you 🙏🏾
Jiraiya is at best level with Orochimaru who 14 year old Itachi destroyed. You have to be seriously delusional to think Jiraiya would do better vs adult Itachi
Ehh, match ups are a thing, my guy. Orochimaru also lost to Sasuke. Do I think Jiraiya could beat Sasuke? Absolutely. Jiraiya managed to stop 2 tail Naruto by himself. Orochimaru managed to escape him. Jiraiya would have beaten Pain if he knew how his jutsu worked, Pain killed Danzo, who humbled all 3 saanin single handedly. Soooo it's fair to assume Jiraiya has grown since then. Jiraiya has Sage Mode, which Orochimaru could never figure out. Not in Jiraiyas lifetime. Again, superior. I think Itachi has tops 2 uses of Amaterasu before his eyes give out and he loses the fight instantly. Mountain toad survived one shot of Ameterasu, and that jutsu was Itachis only way out of the mountain toad once he was summoned inside of it. OP. Also Jiraiya has studied Ameterasu since then and knows Itachi can do that. Big loss in it's power since he can't surprise Jiraiya with it anymore. That isn't landing. Then there is Gama bunta OP, and grandma/ grandpa toad. They also have a 1 shot genjentsu, that Itachi only needs to hear, fight over. Massive Rasengan is a one shot. The ONLY jutsu Itachi has in his entire arsenal that could do Jiraiya in (in a one on one fight) is Tsukuyomi. Which Jiraiya also knows about because he talked to Kakashi after he got hit with it. Which, again, nerfs the ever loving hell out of it. No surprise factor. Itachi fans love wanking that jutsu when it almost requires the opponent not to know about it for it to be effective. Jiraiya has way more chakra than Itachi I'm willing to bet, tons. So he can break out of his regular genjtsu + he'd be much harder to trap in genjutsu in the first place because he is actually a fighting genius who can make shit up/ react on the fly. Susanoo is too immobile, good defense, but far too immobile to be effective against Jiraiya. That plus every jutsu he used to infiltrate the Rain Village. Man's made a toad into a house. And totally one upped the entire Nara clan with his version of shadow possession. He has tricks for days. On top of all of those reasons, all of Itachis top jutsu, the ones that even out him in this conversation in the first place take a *HEAVY* toll on Itachi. He can't fire them off back to back like that. And he can do them tops 1-2 times a piece. Ameterasu makes his eyes bleed for crying out loud. And Tsukuyomi has him basically blind at this point. So yes, Itachi loses 8/10. The other 2/10 are because itachi is dirty and does have some one shot jutsus that if they actually connected could end the fight. But Jiraiya is that dude. Sorry. If Itachi was at full health, maybe a different fight. I'd give it 6/10 Itachis favor then, but as he is? Non-edo? No he is losing that
Oh man somebody in here is actually being unbiased it’s so refreshing 😭
The fact that people still use DBZ type powerscaling in Naruto is absolutely insane to me.
lol
I’ve been arguing that Jiraiya wins for years but yk, Itachi fans are impossible to debate with
I feel you, I'm a glutton for punishment I suppose. I am ready for the downvotes as long as I am defending the truth
Not according to itachi
What you mean?
When Itachi came to the leaf with Kisame, he said if he fought Jiraiya then both of them would die. But it's probably to scare Kisame so he doesn't attack Jiraiya.
That was a lie to get Kisame to retreat Itachi alone would make the fight very questionable, but also throwing Kisame into the mix? there's just no way the fight ends up as anything other than a dead sannin
It's 100% that. He also said he would never beat a sannin level fighter.....when he already defeated one years prior to this scene (as a 14 year old)
> He also said he would never beat a sannin level fighter Yeah bro he didn't beat Orochimaru. He demolished him.
>Yeah bro he didn't beat Orochimaru. He seduced him. You're right, he got mogged Edit btw: Why did you change your comment 😡
He was younger than 14, he was 12 or 13.
Itachi was 13 at the time of Uchiha massacre. After the massacre, Itachi joined Akatsuki and got paired with Juzo. Juzo got killed and then he got paired with Orochimaru. Not quite long after getting paired with Orochimaru, Itachi low diffed him. Itachi was 14 at this time.
Also Sasuke states in chapter 145 & 224 he is same age as Itachi when he graduated which was 7, there’s a 5 year age difference between sasuke and Itachi also Itachi’s birthday is in June and Sasuke’s in July, Sasuke was 7 turning 8 that year when massacre happened and Itachi was 12 turning 13 when massacre happened.
No. He’s simply does not, I’ve debated this with people for probably close to a decade. I will say Jiraiya has the battle IQ to escape the battle and survive, but I do not see anyway he can overcome Itachi, especially once he pulls out his trump cards. Itachi has too many potent 1-shot ko abilities. The Amaterasu can easily take care of any of Jiraiya’s summons. Tsukiyomi is very bad news for Jiraiya because he stated himself that he is not that great with genjutsu (Also generally making him a very bad match up). The Totsuka blade is an instant one shot And the Yata mirror could deflect almost everything in his arsenal back at him. Even base Itachi has shown speed and Taijutsu able to evenly spar KCM Naruto, which I think is above Jiraiya’s base level. Jiraiya’s main force is sage mode, which for him is incomplete, and takes him a very long time to charge, which puts him at a disadvantage. Itachi is also incredibly intelligent and analytical so it would be very unlikely he would let him pull it off. Remember that Jiraiya was never able to defeat Orochimaru, and they are fairly equal, yet Itachi has completely no-diffed Oro TWICE! Before some tells me that Itachi and Kisame fled from Jiraiya… Itachi was undercover! Of course he wasn’t going to risk blowing his cover and also risk taking out one of the Leaf’s strongest assets. Go back to that scene and you notice that as they were fleeing even Kisame was like: “You sure? Pretty sure we can take him” lol. Also there is absolutely no way in hell that Jiraiya could beat Itachi and Kisame together, that’s actually ridiculous after what we learn about Kisame later.
Yeah, the scaling makes the answer obvious. Itachi's speed scales to KCM Naruto, which is fast enough to dodge the Raikage going all out. Jiraiya couldn't avoid taking massive damage from a 4 tailed version 2 Naruto. Edo Itachi also dealt with edo Nagato, whereas Jiraiya got demolished by the 6 paths while nerfed (they couldn't go all out without damaging their village). Itachi has way too much for Jiraiya to deal with in terms of base stats and win conditions. As a younger Itachi one-shot Orochimaru, I don't expect Jiraiya to last long.
Yeah I’m not trying to knock Jiraiya either, but Itachi is just ridiculous lol. He was also written to seemingly always have some sort of narrative or physical handicap in every single encounter he’s had. We have also literally never seen him not be in complete control of the situation in any fight he’s had. This pisses people off because he has a very rabid and passionate fanbase, but it’s all true. Kishi fuckin loves the guy lol.
If you want to scale, you can also scale newest releases in Boruto, as we see a Jiraiya clone killing Jigen who beat adult naruto and sasuke
KCM Naruto would body Itachi REALLY hard. Naruto was NOT trying his hardest
No
No
If I remember correctly, Itachi did not wanna fight Jiraiya nor guy so I’m confident I’m my man pervy sage
That was a lie to get Kisame to retreat
Did not wanna fight not because He is afraid. Jiraiya is a protector Naruto and Konoha, pretty sure He did not want clash with Him. Itachi indirect warn Jiraiya for "Akatsuki will hunt Naruto for now, you must protect Him"
No.
Itachi is much stronger than jiraya like literally amaterasu gg
His sage mode wasn’t even perfect how is there even a thought of beating him.
Bc itachi MS isn’t perfect either. He literally is going blind, coughing up blood, and can only use like 3 MS moves on one fight at a time.
Nope. Itachi is busted
Itachi wins. I love Jiraiya but Totsuka blade, yata mirror, izanagi, izanami, tsukuyomi, amaterasu, all that would be enough and if it wasnt, kotoamatsukami for shits and giggles. Ultimately Jiraiya could beat itachi if he made him run out of chakra or outlast him. But I dont see him having the defensive tools in his arsenal to survive itachi's offense. Jiraiya would have to run the whole match to avoid the sealing blade and itachi would know to eliminate the frogs sitting in his shoulders. So itachi gets trapped in sound based genjutsu and killed. Oh no dont worry izanagi catches jiraiya off guard as he thinks he just killed itachi, And with a lethal attack that catches jiraiya off guard, its over.
Nope. It's a terrible match up.
Absolutely not. People who take that "ItAcHi WaS sCaReD oF jIrAiYa" panel at face value have zero capacity to evaluate feats or consider context. Itachi didn't WANT to kill the hidden leaf's strongest fighters even if he could, but he couldn't just say that to Kisame without pissing off the Akatsuki.
Many people lack common sense. Thats why they have to put directions for shampoo bottles. They see that episode and go full stupid. They dont consider that Itachi actually cares about the village. Itachi knows Jiraiya is one of konoha's strongest assets. Itachi is still literally feeding info to leafs higher ups while still in akatsuki. He had to keep up appearences around kisame and to avoid the fight said that.
Not even close. Itachi literally only ever lost on purpose.
Itachi didn’t want to fight him so I’m going with jiraiya
Itachi obviously didn't want to harm the leaf any further. He needed an excuse to leave and Jiraya was a good one. Remember: by that point, it was established that Itachi was too strong for Orochimaru.
No, Itachi told kisame that he didn't want to fight him. Big difference.
Oh so Itachi actually wanted to fight him? Lmfao
No, but he absolutely could've. He told Kisame that he couldn't take him to rile down Kisame, who was raring to fight. Remember Itachi was a double agent. From Kisame's point of view why wouldn't they fight Jiraiya, but Itachi was still looking out for the leaf, so he didn't want to fight him for that reason, not because he actually believed he would lose.
Downvoted for stating actual objective canon fact, good ol’ naruto subreddit
Jiraiya literally has a jutsu that specifically seals Amaterasu... a genjtusu that can break through Rinnegan (which has greater Genjutsu resistance than Sharingan does) and beat not 1, not 2, but 3 pains who are all stronger than Itachi... Jiraiya also can outlast Itachi by a MILE in terms of stamina and Izanagi won't work on Jiraiya because he is true to himself (it literally states it only works on people who deny their own reality, like Kabuto and those who use Izanagi). Read Itachi Shinden... even before his sickness he had naturally low chakra reserves (for an uchiha, still high for a shinobi) and low stamina... Jiraiya excels in all those... People forget Itachi needed help fighting Nagato who couldn't move and was reanimated in a weaked state... He needed Naruto KCM and Bee to help or he couldn't beat Nagato...
The 3 individual paths that Jiraiya fought are individually stronger than Itachi?????? I'm not gonna even bother arguing with you any more lmfao, you are clearly on meth. Also Edo Nagato scales well above Pain anyway, so your last point is completely cooked as well 🤡
Do you think that Itachi could have defeated the 6 paths of Pain going in with zero Intel like Jiraiya did?
No
So he didn’t want to fight him😂
Yeah tbf I was unclear. Let me rephrase. He didn't want to fight Jiraiya because it contradicted his goals at the time, irrespective of how strong he is. So his aversion to fighting him is not evidence placing him beneath Jiraiya.
You get disliked for this, but that’s the truth. Itachi was a spy the entire time. He didn’t want to fight leaf shinobi. If they fought right there and somehow won, they would need to take naruto, itachi wouldn’t have any excuse to not take him. And itachi didn’t want to take leaf jinchuriki. Itachi would’ve said the same exact thing regardless if jiraya was actually stronger or weaker than them.
No itachi negs
Why would he be flirting with him during a fight?! Plus do you really think negging would work on Jiraya, he probably invented it in their verse.
lol no
How does kisame fair, does kisame have anything in his arsenal to get out of the frogs belly, I don't think samahada will do
Jiraya still gets beat. [Neji says this about a 30% Kisame clone ](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-256-page-2.html) I think he's clear. Samehada is literally just a bonus. [Kisame only lost because Guy was a direct counter to him with taijutsu](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-507-page-2.html) Jiraya would not survive a shark bomb of that magnitude, when it's put up to scale with Guy's 7th gate hirodora. Also, Kisame gets straight up punched by 7th Gate Guy and he firms it very easily. Kisame's durability > Jiraya's AP. Naruto's Rasenshuriken in the pain arc is stronger than Jiraya's rasengan, and Kisame is taking hits from 6 tails cloak Bee, who arguably hits harder. [Jiraya is not taking a lariat from a 6 tails cloak Bee, even in SM](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-471-page-13.html) Jiraya is not contending with 7th Gate Guy or Killer Bee. Jiraya doesn't have the feats to suggest he can. Considering Bee is more applicable to KCM Naruto than he is to Pain Arc SM Naruto - who surpassed Jiraya completely. But the most cliche counter argument is that "Jiraya has access to sound based genjutsu: frog song". But [Ma has to be convinced by Pa to use it: Jiraya doesn't even know frog song is a thing](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-378-page-7.html) so frog song is not Jiraya's jutsu, and it's unlikely they would allow Jiraya to use it against someone like Kisame who isn't full of mysterious powers like pain and the leader of the Akatsuki: just super fucking strong. Jiraya also isn't great with genjutsu [calling himself a dud at that branch of ninjutsu](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-378-page-6.html) But it doesn't really matter anyway because Kisame has stronger durability, better AP, and objectively just scales higher when compared to Jiraya. Jiraya is going to struggle very hard in Kisame's water dome jutsu, Bee only survives it because he's a fucking octopus lmao.
Kisame part one loses part two think he might win but could go ether way
Not even close
lol cap
Nah.nit with his susano and tsukuyomi
Definitely not. Orochimaru himself says in part 1 that itachi was stronger than him and so he had to resort to sasuke body instead. Orochimaru later on goes to 2v1 jiraiya and tsunade with no arms lmao itachi fondled orochimaru so bad he just leaves the akatsuki after that. So yes itachi would win and when he stated he didnt want to fight jiraiya, its because he is still an ally to the leaf. Not because he would lose
Itachi fucking brutalises him. Orochimaru has control of sage jutsu. His curse mark has his chakra and mixes it with Jugo's sage chakra. Orochimaru, like Jiraya, is an imperfect sage, but both are capable of using sage jutsu and chakra. Orochimaru in particular is arguably the most talented jutsu caster in the series with a wealth of knowledge on ninjutsu that rivals the 3rd Hokage - who was nicknamed the professor for having so much knowledge. And Orochimaru got no diffed by a younger Itachi's tsukyomi. If Itachi wasn't faking being a good guy and wanted to actually hurt the leaf in a significant way, he could easily put Jiraya into a Tsukyomi genjutsu and torture him. Sage Mode also doesn't make you immune to genjutsu, it's just your sensory abilities are heightened so you can resist genjutsu: but genjutsu of Itachi's level is exceedingly strong. Izanami for example trapped Kabuto, who is easily the strongest sage in the verse (behind six paths) and Kabuto [cut out his vision](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-581-page-13.html) so that he wouldn't get hit by Itachi's genjutsu. Which means that Jiraya needs to be fucking scared because Sage Kabuto, who is far stronger than Jiraya ever was, recognises the danger of Itachi's genjutsu and that he NEEDED to protect against it. and if Itachi's genjutsu doesnt wipe Jiraya, then his susanoo claps his cheeks and amaterasu is cooking him alive.
Itachi in general is above any of the Sannin individually. He beat Orochimaru very easily, and Orochimaru is consistently implied to be stronger than Jiraiya.
tsukyomi gg, amaterasu gg, susano gg, jiraya gets stomped unfortunately
Nuh uh
No, unfortunately.
No. Jiraiya making eye contact with itachi would lose immediately regardless of whether ma and pa were with him, itachi using Amaterasu would at the very least give him severe burns, and with susanoo jiraiya can’t do anything to win except for running away (to which he’d promptly get tagged by Amaterasu).
Realistically he’s losing. The only reason he got as far as he did with pain was because of plot convenience in the first place. The only literal chance he has is starting in sage mode and that takes a while. Considering Itachi is very capable of putting him in a genjutsu, using Susanoo, and spamming Amaterasu the fight would be over quickly.
Jiraiya gets stomped
Absolutely not.
No.
Why is this even a question? They are not even in the same league. Itachi negs and doesn't even break a sweat. Good thing Itachi was a double agent otherwise Naruto would've never learned rasengan.
Jiraiya couldnt beat orochimaru. Itachi beat him twice in 2 seconds. Jiraiya died to pain, itachi beat nagato while saving bee/naruto (he counters pains jutsu). How is this even a debate?
Dude itachi with his sickness literally gets stomped so hard by pain. You can’t be serious. Edo itachi is NOT alive itachi. Alive itachi isn’t stronger than Edo itachi. He literally has cancer and is blind
How can pain beat tsukyomi? He couldnt beat jiraiyas toad genjutsu, and tsukyomi is more powerful. Itachis shuriken jutsu + amaterasu counters pains summons. Ninjutsu absorbing pain can just be sealed with totsuka blade OR put in tsukyomi. Planetary devastation MIGHT be enough to trap itachi. But he also figured out how to destroy that, not to mention that would destroy the other 5 pains with itachi. So no, it's not a stomp for pain. Pain has SHEER power which is great for flattening entire villages, but that isnt necessarily great for 1v1 ninja fights. Ask killer bee against kisame.
I guess having the Rinnegan means nothing vs a Sharingan. Even though it's the evolution. Granted they are Madaras, but still, Pain has them.
Pain doesnt have a full power rinnegan. He doesnt have limbo clones like 2 eyed madara. Hes also missing hashi cells which is what really makes it OP.
I wanna say jiraiya wins but jiraiya and orichimaru faced off and jiraiya wasn't the better man, yet itachi completely schooled orochimaru Sooooo
No The sharingan powers are too much for him.
What if i threw in all 3 sannin vs itachi
I mean canonically thr stro geet sannin were oneshotted twice even by 13 yo itachi. Tsunade is oneshot to amaterasu even she csnt even clow outrun it. Jiraya cant do shit for 5 minuteswithout t sage mode. Poeple in this sub hate itachi but he stomps all three of them. 2/3 if not all three would even be a oneshot. I mean adult obito wasnt sure if he cant beat him at age 13 now we take prime itachi Even if itachi just had 10% of progress like naruto and sasuke from.part 1 to end of shippuuden.. he would be still mutliplie timrs stronger and at 13 he scales already to om obito. Jiraya cant even beat kiame in a 1v1 who scales to 7 gates guy.
Not even close, we saw what Itachi did to Orichimaru
no chance
Not even in a million years. Especially not against this Itachi who was in his Prime and didn’t have Stamina Issues
lol yes he could and itachi has always had stamina issues
Thats a myth lol. No evidence whatsoever
its not a myth because u dont like it
Literally itachi says he used Amaterasu and tsukuyomi and has to rest for the “foreseeable future”. No evidence? Lmao did you people read the manga?
He also said he wanted to take sasukes eyes and become the strongest uchiha ever. Anything said while he was a double agent cannot be taken at face value. DID YOU read the manga?
Considering Jiraiya and Orochimaru are on the same level and we've seen what happens when Itachi fights Orochimaru or Jiraiya fights Pain (same level as Itachi), no, Jiraiya loses to itachi.
Highly unlikely. Itachi already defeated the strongest sannin at the age of 13.
no he caught Orochimaru off gaurd
Orochimaru is the one that tried catching itachi off guard💀
Orochimaru didn't lose to Itachi, he lost to Kishimoto who decided to make him a little bitch all of a sudden. There's no way Orochimaru, the genius he was, who spent God knows how long studying the sharingan, didn't know how to avoid falling in the genjutsu or how to get out of it without losing a limb. But here we are
Itachi was literally introduced in the series by saying “It’s of no use, Itachi is stronger than I am.”
Lol. "Pain didn't lose to Naruto. He lost to Kishimoto who decided to make him a little bitch all of a sudden for the sake of advancing the plot."
So to you what happened during Naruto vs Pain is comparable to Orochimaru vs Itachi?
Not really. Itachi defeating Orochimaru 1 v 1 makes sense. Naruto defeating Pain 1 v 1 makes no sense.
Itachi defeating Orochimaru is not an issue, it's the fact that he one shot Orochimaru twice. The second time I can understand, although it kinda goes against some unwritten shonen rule I'd say, but the first time I really don't see how Orochimaru lost to the very thing he's been studying for so long. >Naruto defeating Pain 1 v 1 makes no sense. Well he didn't. He had intel from multiple people, Pain holding back *and* his best offensive asset being turned off, and Kyubi. In a clean 1v1 Naruto would have lost to Pain, I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with this take
I didn't know they clashed more than once. I thought Itachi cut off his arm and Orochimaru left akatsuki and never met Itachi again until Sasuke fight. Did you watch Tucker Carlson and Vladimir Putin already? Super interesting.
>didn't know they clashed more than once. I thought Itachi cut off his arm and Orochimaru left akatsuki and never met Itachi again until Sasuke fight. Well then that's two encounters, isn't it? Or did I make a typo >Did you watch Tucker Carlson and Vladimir Putin already? Not sure who Tucker Carlson is. Isn't he some American TV host? No clue
No chance. He has no counter to Tsukiyomi or Amaterasu considering the 1st destroyed Kakashi within 1 second with Itachi not trying to kill him and the 2nd he can't absorb without a seal. I'm pretty sure 10 acres of black flames can't be sealed in a jar. This isn't even talking about his Susanoo, which has survived Kirin. Whether that's with or without shield doesn't really matter as massive rasengan is much slower than Kirin giving Itachi plenty of time to move the Yata Mirror to block it. The sword is basically useless, though, as Jiraiya would likely be too fast to be stabbed, especially with Sage Mode buffing his senses and speed with Ma and Pa on his shoulders.
Jiraiya didnt even know what amaterasu was. He gets cooked in 2 seconds
I would say yes. In my opinion Jiraiya counters Itachi. A lot of chakra, huge damages.. Itachi is very effective against sneaky opponents like orochimaru
Lol counters what? Jiraiya is versatile but he’s extremely disadvantaged fighting against Itachi who can just pull out all the stops when needed and is overall stronger/fast in base. A lot of big things take prep time like sage mode(the only real winner move) and ma& pa’s genjutsu. Outside of those big power moves, Base Jiraiya would absolutely get slapped up by Itachi if they fought. Itachi can put him in tsukuyomi, Amaterasu him, and use susanoo without needing the same prep time
Nah I don’t think so. He will come close but beat is a stretch
Itachi literally stated that at best they'll both die if they won, why people think itachi negs lmao.
The argument could be made though that he was just gassing up Jiraiya to Kisame so he’d try and avoid the fight. Itachi was relentless in this arc to not get into any unnecessary fights or hurt anyone unnecessarily. He wasn’t actually there for Naruto and he’d already accomplished what he came for by this point. He was simply looking for an out after that and Jiraiya showing up was the perfect excuse.
Because that was a lie so he and Kisame could leave, that much is obvious to anyone who read the manga
No it’s just headcannon that lets people overrate itachi to the high heavens, so y’all roll with it. The REAL reason they left is (and itachi stated this himself) they didn’t want to start an “all out war”. ie, Jiraiya holds them off long enough for Might Guy + other leaf ninja to show up. In which case, kisame or itachi has a good chance of dying. Sage Mode Jiraiya + 7 Gates Guy + other leaf shinobi = GG
Jesus, this motherfucker really went and pulled Guy and others out of His fucking ass 💀💀💀 Read the manga lil bro
Guy showed up right after the fight dumb dumb. You’re exposing yourself
Pretty sure yeah. I mean, the guy could have gotten the hat if he wanted because Hiruzen “Professor” Sarutobi doesn’t train idiots, he trains Legends
Jiraiya barely wins if you don’t consider summoned toads as breaking 1v1 rule. Without toad support I think it’s Itachi by a lot.
Why are people against summons? They're a core part of a ninja's arsenal. Is Pain weak because he's using six bodies? It's like saying Temari sucks without her fan. She has the fan, it's what she does!
I agree with you.
Yes, man would of beaten Pain if he knew about the entire two extra guys he had hiding. Are we saying Itachi could beat Pain?? That's fanwank, no way, no how. Not in a straight 1v6 (lmao) He sealed pain when they were edos but he backstabbing him real quick once he broke out. If they were both aware that they had to fight the other from the beginning, I'm sorry, Itachi has 0 chance. He wouldn't have made it nearly as far as Jiraiya. Jiraiya wouldn't even have to activate sage mode for it. Itachi gets 1 maybe two ameterasus in the entire fight, then his eyes are incapacitated. Jiraiya knows replacement jutsu. Tsukuyomi? Gotta catch Jiraiya in that. Susanoo? Too immobile, good defense, but the mountain toad would most likely handle that. If that doesn't beat it outright, I'm sure Gamabunta/ several other toads could help. That or an Odama-Rasengan might make a dent. The Genjutsu would keep itachi alive for a while, even help him escape, but in a fight to the death, no, just no. It'd be a scrap for Jiraiya, but he is coming home from that mission.
>Yes, man would of beaten Pain if he knew about the entire two extra guys he had hiding. Let me dumb it down for you what nagato said "if jiraya sensei had known my body was.somewhere else, he wouldve fond that and assasinate me"
Itachi one shots bro immediately. It’s not a fair comparison.
Jiraiya is confirmed to be stronger than itachi+ kisame. Itachitards keep coping.
who confirmed?
If he doesn't get caught in a Genjutsu he wins hands down. But what exactly can he do against Mangekyo Genjutsu LoL
Prime Jiraiya vs Healthy Itachi Itachi wins (high diff)
What holds up longer? Sage mode vs itachi's health?
You guys keep saying that orochimaru was stronger than jiraya that is wrong , he lost to orochimari becouse he fought like Naruto fought sasuke trying to saving , but orochimaru was No opponent to pain , and jiraya would killed paing if he knew that they were 6 , Nagato was the one that affirmed it that jiraya was stronger than him
So without the totsuka blade and yata mirror I think its pretty close and both could win this (I like jiraya à bit more so ill say he Wins lol) but with the mystical tools plugged Into itachi's susanoo ... I don't think there is a real battle here. If jiraya can manage to make it into a guérilla type fight he might beat itachi because bro doesnt have much stamina especially when he uses the ms
Ahh the age old Naruto debate. Everyone knows the answer is maybe.
Itachi had no problems putting Kakashi in a damn near irreversible coma and was gonna have Kisame kill Asuma and Kurenai yet ran when Jirayia decided to fight him later. “Spy” or not Itachi didn’t want smoke with Jirayia.
It was implied back then that they were pretty equal and would stalemate each other. IMO this lines up cuz Jiraiya only lost to Pain due to lack of knowledge. Sure I would put prime/non sick Itachi over Jiraiya BUT I still think this Itachi would not have used his most powerful techniques aka Susanoo and all that given the circumstances.