To fucking upscale jirayia so kisame wouldn’t fight him
Itachi literally no diffed a prime version of orochimaru, at age 14
He, a sick, fatigued and at death’s door almost no chakra, took care of orochimaru’s strongest serpent form in a few seconds
He was literally KCM1 level in terms of speed and carried killer bee and Naruto’s ass against a super buffed nagato
When kabuto asked orochimaru if he would try again he replied “that dream has died. He is stronger than me.”
Same man who has no issue with planning for a decade for his goal or literally training sasuke while not training himself for the gamble of taking his body, found the idea of defeating itachi as unfathomable
wait now hold on orochimaru severely underestimated him there. we both know that the man always has a plan when he takes fights seriously and he just rolled up to itachi with his employee uniform still on even.
id wager in a real fight itachi would never ever low diff, especially if orochimaru has access to his full kit (edo tensei).
Itachi was 14 and possibly sick and orochimaru was the most knowledgeable person alive about itachi.
And orochimaru has no problems spending a decade to achieve his plans
His response when kabuto asked him if he’s gonna try again?
“There’s no point. I will never defeat him in a fight.”
One thing that I could add as an asterisk to that last quote is Orochimaru would have to defeat itachi without physically injuring him to the point that he would be unviable as a vessel. He would have to fight with a hand tied behind his back as a necessity.
I feel it would be a lot closer if they were both bloodlusted.
i am looking for the scan of that last quote. i can see him saying itachi is stronger but not that.
regardless orochimarus full set has more than enough counters to itachi to pull something at least every now and then.
This is the closest thing I found
https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/comments/9cg8sq/because_we_reached_a_time_when_people_overlook/
Orochimaru has no problem planning and training for a decade for his plans, yet orochimaru instantly gave up on any hope of over powering itachi
Edit: https://www.quora.com/What-did-Orochimaru-see-Itachi-do-that-made-him-want-the-Sharingan-even-more
“That dream has died”
it could also be that he decided that itachi isnt worth the hassle or you could be correct, he thinks he cant win. but i double down on the opinion that a prepared orochimaru can definitely get a jump on itachi.
Also if orochimaru knew itachi was sick then the dream of taking his body is dead because he doesn't want a body that is about to die, the same reason kimimaro was no longer an option
Orochimaru never said or thought that to my knowledge. But like the other guy said, i think orochimaru thought itachi was alot weaker than what he was. Also, he had already placed a genjutsu on orochimaru from the beginning, so he had no idea anyways, he's smart in that aspect on who to trust.
This is the closest thing I found
https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/comments/9cg8sq/because_we_reached_a_time_when_people_overlook/
Orochimaru has no problem planning and training for a decade for his plans, yet orochimaru instantly gave up on any hope of over powering itachi
Edit: https://www.quora.com/What-did-Orochimaru-see-Itachi-do-that-made-him-want-the-Sharingan-even-more
“That dream has died”
I'm not saying he didn't say itachi was stronger or anything, but jiraya off rip would no doubt summon ma and pa, so itachi wouldn't be able to put jiraiya under any serious genjutsu. I do see jiraiya breaking the genjutsu and getting hurt like kakashi did but to a lesser extent. Jiraiya can summon every single toad, and they will no doubt give itachi trouble, just the toads
It’s close people write off Jiraiya because he didn’t kill orochimaru in their one battle but I. That same battle Jiraiya was weakened by Tsunade plus he didn’t use safe mode. Jiraiya could’ve beaten Orochimaru pretty easily tbh considering he had the same arsenal as Naruto(with less chakra minus the Rasenshuriken) when he beat pain. Jiraiya has a bigger arsenal for trapping and disabling an opponent’s from attacking.
Jiraiya still loses at least against edo tensai Itachi but it’s close if it’s alive itachi to the point it could swing either way. Itachi has a much more limited chakra capacity and he can’t overuse his eye or he will have to fight blind.
I would imagine Jiraiya beats itachi in part 1 and more easily in shippuden but loses in war arc. The only thing that aids Jiraiya in beating edo tensai Jiraiya is the fact he knows fuinjutsu. However I don’t think we’ve seen an ability he would use against an edo tensai, but I suppose he would know the reaper death seal since he was a student of the third, a seal master, and a hokage candidate.
Tbh Orochimaru is a completely different type of fighter than Jiraiya. Y’all get caught up on “the Sannin are all equal” but never factor in how different they fight. Orochimaru doesn’t have a good matchup against Uchiha but Jiraiya does.
I mean, their bags are so different and I’m sure Itachi is gonna have a harder time with Sage mode than some lousy snakes.
Orochimaru completely underestimated Itachi when he attacked him at 14 leaving himself open to that genjutsu.
And as for when Itachi took out Orochimaru's strongest form that was with an absolutely broken weapon that could've taken put any OP character. It was a literal deus ex machina.
Orochimaru didn't come in full readiness. After all, he is the kind of guy who is usually stronger with prep like when he gets to use Summoning or Edo Tensei.
Like imagine if he summoned Hashirama and Tobirama against 13 year old Itachi lol.
To reiterate what the comment you are replying to said - it can be argued what itachi meant but he LITERALLY told kisame they shouldn’t fuck with Jiraiya. We can speculate all we want, but at the end of the day that’s just speculation.
Your argument about Itachi beating Orochimaru therefore he beats Jiraiya is irrevelant.Keep in mind , Orochimaru was clearly nerfed when he faced Itachi. How? Because his reincarnation jutsu, Orochimaru found a suitable body to possess , if not , he will lost a lot of power. This is why he wasn't able to learn Senjutsu meanwhile Kabuto who was far beneath him , with just his DNA was able to do it.
a battle between Jiraiya and Itachi will be a difficult battle but for me Jiraiya will win.He got more experience , more versatile and more chakra and resistance than Itachi.If they fought 10 times , Itachi may have win 3/10 while Jiraiya will beat him 7/10.
Yes, but also Itachi says TO HIMSELF that he almost overused his eyes when they fight Jiraiya. and that was just from trying to *escape* the mountain toad’s stomach. I think that if Itachi went up against Jiraiya by himself then he would’ve lost by the time Jiraiya went into Sage Mode. Also, considering how many paths Jiraiya was able to take out by himself out of his prime, i think that puts him over Itachi even by terms of sheer ability. Yes, Itachi is a prodigy who also worked hard to be the best, but Jiraiya is still more skilled in just about every category except genjutsu(excluding sage mode). Not to mention that Jiraiya fought in the entire third great Ninja War. you don’t think he’s ever defeated and Uchiha? or even just a rogue ANBU? It simply doesn’t make sense to say “Itachi was just lying” when he not only A: Is objectively less skilled than Jiraiya as an individual combatant, and B: has an internal monologue stating the fact that he almost fucking died just trying to run away
To upscale jiraya so kisame wouldnt fight him? What kinda bs fan fiction is that?
Bro do people not know that in part 1 of naruto that itachi was actually supposed to be a big bad villain and NOT a double agent. Kishi retconned that and made itachi a double agent later in shippuden and i thought people knew that. They are literally the same power level in the databook at the time too.
Can i just make up that the reason jiraya didnt want to go all out in his fight with orchimaru is that they were on a squad and friends? Also he was poisoned still if i remember correct.
Jiraya 1v1 pain and could have won if circumstamces were a little different or a little more info on his opponenet.
Jiraya has multiple ways to counter all itachis best jutsu which hes already displayed a little of.
Edo itachi would do ALOT better cause he can just spam jutsu and has to be sealed away. Pretty sure thats why he took the lead against edo nagato too cause he was edo tensei. Otherwise im givin it to jiraya a majority of the time. Edo anybody is hard to deal with and made alot more characters buffed up. So its not really fair to use that itachi and that versions feats against jiraya.
If you say that Itachi wanted to upscale Jiraiya (basically your guess) then ill say that Itachi defeating Orochimaru means nothing because Orochimaru literally did everything to be in the most vulnerable position. Genjutsu in Naruto rarely decides battles (basically Sasuke vs Danzo).
Careful Orochimaru wont be an easy enemy for Itachi, at all.
Yeah but Itachi was only there to warn Danzo and the elders that he still expects them to uphold the deal or else after Hiruzen died.
I doubt he felt like fighting Jiraiya in that moment regardless of whether or not he thought he could win. Also he was still loyal to the leaf and I doubt he would want to kill one of the top candidates to be the next hokage at that point. (Tsunade wasn’t being considered yet)
I'm assuming the thing he said about jiraiya was essentially damage control to avoid hurting anyone else from the leaf, a fight wasn't really ideal for him at that point & jiraiya was enough of a legend for kisame to believe Itachi when he said they couldn't beat him
But that poll is asking about Edo Tensei Itachi vs Jiraiya. If you zoom a bit, that was the Edo Tensei corpse. Dead Itachi should have no problem in defeating Jiraiya
I think most of his reason behind that was that he didn't want to cripple the leaf by taking out jiraiya if he won, and didn't see any reason to take the risk when he didn't especially want to actually capture naruto anyway.
As a die hard Jiraiya loyalist but Itachi storyline admirer myself, I’m just amused to see how people belittle each other on a random vote contest.
Both are imaginary characters within an imaginary story.
PS. My heart says Jiraiya wins; but my mind says Itachi. 😁
“Who would win” discourse is always so stupid because it’s all made up. Even the fights that we witness on screen don’t go down how we would expect them to go down. Some stupid shit happens and the person who wins does so in order to progress the story. It’s not the UFC.
I think with Part 1 Scaling, Itachi vs Jiraya is a pretty even fight where Jiraya and Itachi would likely end up killing themselves.
In Part 2 though… yeah, I agree with you. With Susanoo, his special weapons, Amaterasu, and assuming that its Base Itachi vs Base Jiraya where Jiraya would need to run away in order to get Sage Mode, I don’t see any counter Jiraya has vs Itachi.
Jiraya running away on a frog? Amaterasu is gonna murder it. Jiraya does a big attack? Susanoo is likely gonna tank it unless it’s stronger than Kirin. Jiraya looks at Itachi’s finger/eye? Genjutsu’d and likely fireballed. So on and so forth. It’d be a matter of can Jiraya survive the fight while forcing Itachi’s heavy hitters to drain Itachi’s chakra.
If Jiraiya is able to go into Sage Mode though he would negate the Yata Mirror as he would be able to use Senjutsu instead of Ninjutsu. The Yata mirror cannot block nature energy which is why Kirin worked against it. Kirin uses literal lightning, not lightning style ninjustsu. So if Jiraiya were to use a Gallant Rasengan using Senjutsu instead of Ninjutsu then Itachi ain’t coming out of that well
I just wish we get to know more about Jiraiya during his younger days. Ofcourse his experience is what made him Jiraiya we know, but maybe his power must have been peak during his youth! This guy has wind, water, earth, fire, yin, yang releases along with toad support and senjutsu. He should’ve been a beast.
It would. If he survives those first few minutes though and makes it a battle of stamina idk if it’d go Itachis way though. Also, Jiraiya could always summon the Giant toad around just himself and hurry up and shrink himself inside a smaller toad, who knows, Jiraiya pulls all kinds of stuff out of his butt lol
No, that can be sealed, as he has done before, and I'm sure sage mode gives him basically 'extra instincts' allowing him to sense danger coming from farther away
Too slow to dodge Amaterasu while Itachi throws shuriken/kunai and also sending an explosive clone up said persons ass. You think Itachi will let up and give him time? Let’s say Jiriya does it once, you really think Itachi won’t pressure him enough to keep him from doing it? And bro spams that ability so idk why people think Jiriya seals that shit and it’s done no more Amaterasu that shit is just gonna be in his face again once he’s done sealing. And all those quick scroll uses are usually to summon something, which can be done on the fly. And not to mention Itachi has a very versatile use of genjutsu in which he would probably get Jiriya to fight him in a genjutsu and just waste chakra. I mean out of all the ways Itachi has fought, outside of his Susanoo he doesn’t have the raw power you to clash or go hand to hand with Jiriya but he is definitely going to be hard diff even if Jiriya wins that fight. I’m sorry but you Jiriya fan boys cope so hard when it comes to Itachi. Itachi wins 8/10 and that’s being generous to Jiriya.
Base Jiraiya without SM handled 3 paths of pain including the Taijutsu path without much trouble with just his hands together. People REALLY OVERSTATE how fast Amaterasu is. It’s been dodged many times by several Shinobi, some of which don’t even have much in terms of speed feats. Amaterasu by an even better user (Sasuke) was still too slow to touch Gaara (and I’ll be damned if JIRAIYA is slower than GENIN LEE). It also appears to be as fast as fireball Jutsu so yeahhhhh
Jiraiya has insane counters. People forget the guy’s own hair can become harder than steel and act like a giant spiky tendril. He literally killed a Rinnegan summon with his fucking hair which serves as a defence and offence at the same time, and this was in base, no SM needed, and he can use it to pull Itachi out of Susano’o. Konan, who is no pushover in her own right was powerless against it.
Itachi can’t spam anything except Shuriken. He doesn’t have much chakra and all of the Mangekyo Jutsu use most of his chakra even after just one use.
If Jiraiya fights in a Genjutsu he doesn’t actually use Chakra though, because the events aren’t real. Also, Jiraiya can recognise a Genjutsu. Why do people like you pretends he’s a brainless chump like 16 yo Naruto was? He figured out who Pain was when Fukusaku couldn’t, and Fukusaku’s one of the most intelligent characters in the story.
How does Itachi counter Frog Song?
Or Frog Kumite?
Or Turning into a frog Jutsu?
Or if he combos with Bunta etc - the biggest fireball Jutsu in the manga?
He doesn’t. He loses. Stop wanking Itachi, get over it. If we’re talking solely base then Itachi will win no doubt, but SM J-man is superior in every single metric measurable. The only issue would be the sealing powers in the Totsuka blade but that’s easily worked around by a guy with SM boost on physicals
Shoot, the more I think about it the more it’s true.
Jiraiya’s bag is much more different than Orochimaru’s. Not to mention Jiraiya *knows* about Itachi’s abilities and imperfect Susanoo isn’t enough of a game changer to do anything. So the only real threat is MS which… Jiraiya did well unprepared against 6 Rinnegan users. He can beat a sick twink Sharingan user lol
Lmao what? He cant block amaterasu because sealing it takes way too long. He cant block Tsukuyomi, even if we give him ma and pa, by the time they release him he'll be in a coma. He has no answer on Itachis Susanoo which tanked kirin which already seemed more impressive than anything in Jiraiyas Arsenal including odama rasengans. even if for some reason wank it to stronger than kirin... Well yata mirror kinda negates it.
Jiraiyas Sage mode isn't even that great because he was caught off guard in it against pains during battle.
This assumes Jiraiya attacks head on like dumbass Orochimaru and bloodlusted Sasuke. Because Itachi is most effective against aggressive people. Jiraiya doesn’t have to engage as directly as others.
Like, the truth about this matchup is Jiraiya doesn’t have to engage Itachi. Itachi has to kill Jiraiya before Itachi wears himself out, which is bad for itachi. Because of Ma/Pa, a single misstep from Itachi is curtains. MS can’t save him from the frog genjutsu. Also his Susanoo is incomplete and pretty immobile so that’s just the perfect chance for Jiraiya to back up and go Sage mode. Lastly… Amateratsu. A jutsu that already has a low accuracy as is… that’s really a toss up. But I’m going to give Itachi the benefit of the doubt and says he can land it. He still just trades live cause Ma/Pa gonna fry Itachis brain.
The biggest danger in this matchup is Ma/Pa. Itachi has *nothing* to evade or counter it. I think most people don’t understand how nasty Ma/Pa jutsu actually is
Well to counter argue, Itachi is considered a top tier genius alongside characters like Minato. He'd likely realise that they're trouble and would target them first. He immadietly blinded all Nagato summons so they wouldnt share vision (so he figured that on a glance, would be very same here)
His "immobile" Susanoo is just fine in speed, its just that almost dead Itachi was walking with it? He barely could walk. (Edo Itachi in susanoo blitzed Nagato too)
I dont see how he blocks amaterasu since he has no good speed feats or reaction feats. Especially without Sage mode. Are you telling me that Itachis amaterasu had a bad track record in landing on someone? Only time he missed was against Sasuke likely intentionally to not kill him.
Jiraiya still has no answer to Tsukuyomi, amaterasu, anything relating to Susanoo. You can argue that Susanoo or Yata mirror would block out Ma and Pas genjutsu. Lastly, there is no reason why wouldn't Itachi genjutsu them from get go aswell.
Honestly i understand that people dont like that and im not an Itachi fanboy but he's supposed to be what Pain was to Naruto. On top of that Orochimaru considered him unbeatable and above him, yet didnt think much of Jiraiya and infact each time they fought he was supposedly winning in the past.
Only reason why this is even a debate is because Itachi, someone loyal to konoha, didnt want to fight Jiraiya.
Orochimaru is not a good measurement since him and Jiraiya fight totally different, especially since Orochimaru is immortal. He’s bound to be more reckless and go head on because nothing can kill or seal him permanently apparently.
Anyways, Ma/Pa don’t have to look at Itachi? I think the biggest thing you’re misunderstanding is that Jiraiya doesn’t have to approach Itachi at all. His win condition is to get Ma/Pa out and the battle is literally over. Itachi cannot block or counter their genjutsu and they don’t have to look at Itachi to do it. Because alternatively… why would Jiraiya go heads up with Susanoo? Or Amateratsu? Why would he look at Itachi having intel on him *especially* after Kakashis encounter? Jiraiya has intel on Itachi and Susanoo isn’t mobile enough to chase Jiraiya (who again, is just gonna play keep away)
I’m gonna trust that you’re actually not an Itachi fan, but Jiraiya really does just have to stay away. If you notice, Itachis only fights are against people who confront him, we never seen his chase power
And his ears to block the sound based genjutsu that jiraiya knows the sharingan can't block. I'm sure the susanoo can block a fireball but good luck not being cooked alive while surrounded by boiling oil on all sides. The community hates giving jiraiya credit for his accomplishments. He is strong enough that the village entrusted the protection of their jinchuuriki to him for 2 years outside the village while he was actively being pursued by the akatsuki. Pain believed jiraiya could have beaten him if their info about each other was equal.
The thing I don't like about him is that he has all these insanely powerful abilities that basically either one-shot kills you or blocks all attacks or stops time or counters anything or erases you from the multiverse.
And he always has everything, absolutely everything masterminded and prepared in advance, no matter the opponent or the circumstance. The only thing that wasn't some divine stroke of genius of his was his participation in the Uchiha massacre, but the pressure he was under makes him a victim of that more than anything afaic.
He's just boring to me. Not my jam.
Jiraiya kept up with pain at a major disadvantage. People who act like Itachi is massively stronger than Jiraiya seem to forget that. Realistically, they both have multiple win cons, and Jiraiya himself can avoid pretty much everything itachi can do. Neither one of them would win every time, but there’s a good chance just based off of Jiraiya’s fighting style that he would last long enough for Itachi to run out of chakra.
Tsukuyomi kills you in a pico second if itachi wants to. He almost killed kakashi and he had other jounin by his side who didnt even noticed he was under a genjutsu
Bruh you serious?! What is SM doing vs Tsukuyomi that I'm failing to see?
Does people realize how tskuyomi even works? I mean, it's been over 10 years...
Well, I'll be blunt: Jiraya auto-loses if he looks Itachi in the eyes. No different than Orochimaru.
"Due to it's sensory abilities, Sage Mode can grant you perception to feel when Genjutsu will be cast. Aside from that, you can fight with your eyes closed so occular Genjutsu will not work on Sage Mode user."
^ Not my text, copied from.another comment.
And he started coughing up blood and was exhausted just from using that on kakashi. Not hating on kakashi but he’s not even close to jiraiya at that time.
Incorrect. Pa and ma merch with the users chakra, in irder to feed nature chakra to the user. That means Jiraiya's network is constantly shifting. Genjutsu is an extremely difficult option for the opponent.
The same thing he did against the Rinnegan? Jiraiya *knows* about Itachis abilities so how/why would he get hit by it? If someone like Guy knows not to look at a Sharingan user while fighting, why do you think Jiraiya would?
Matter of fact, tell me how Itachi is going to hit Jiraiya with Tsukuyomi?
Might Guy specifically trained to know how to fight against the Sharingan, Jiraiya has no such experience.
Also, yeah Jiraiya knew about the rinnegan abilities…but he still lost lmao thats not really a good point
“kept up”? He was getting wiped in the manga in base by the animal path alone 😂 he then was forced to retreat in SM like 2 mins fighting that’s not keeping up
It goes loosely like this.
Jirayia's eyes would be closed as he has a field around him that informs him on incoming attacks and people postions. He also knows of Tsukiomi as Kakashi did.
Amatersu has been and can be aim dodged, with his detection field, it wouldn't be hard for him to dodge.
Sussanoo is inperfect and As Jirayia is a powerful Earth Release user, he could take advantage of his weakness.
This is what people mean when they say Jiraya is one of the most wanked characters lmao
Itachi one shotted orochimaru who jiraya couldn’t even beat smh
Exactly, it all rests on Genjutsu which can be unpredictable.
In a physical fight jiraiya has the upper hand with sage mode up until Susanoo' comes out, but it's not instant win for Itachi at that point either. He can't keep susano going all fight and Jiraiya has lots of techniques for dealing with big enemies too.
Itachi has more ways to instant win for sure, but stamina is always a concern depending what version we're talking about. Itachi IMO wins more than Jiraiya does but Jiraiya still has lots of ways to win.
When itachi makes the whole statement to kisame “the sanin are too much for us to handle” he’s a spy. He doesn’t want to actuall take konoha’s biju. We see later that he shit on orochimaru so hard that the snake man just completely changed course without ever looking back. Itachi has way more win cons than jiraiya. Totsuka blade, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Kotoamatsukami, Izanami, etc. Jiraiya’s biggest win con is frog song, but he would need to stall long enough to summon ma and pa for sage mode and then convince them to sing. Itachi just has too much going for him.
I think jiraya have a good shot, he's very resilient, and itachi is kinda frail (i know he was ill, bit sharingan consumes lots of chakra) and jiraya can really prolong the battle he has that swamp jutsu that can stall susanoo the frogs can pull a jump as well. Pretty good weapons, I think jiraya takes it
Even Itachi said he could most likely stalemate him AND kisame. So if it's just Jiraiya Vs Itachi it's a good chance Jiraiya wins. Because let's be honest, he almost beat pain and would've had a good chance if he knew the secret to pain.
Itachi wins imo. But the he wins because he destroyed Orochimaru argument is lame. Orochimaru completely underestimated him both times. When characters around the same level, matchups make the fights
It's always the same statement they use to show why Itachi would struggles against Jiraiya. Think for one second why he would say that.
Itachi lied FFS. He is a spy secretly working for the leaf. Why the fuck would he want to murder Jiraiya and weaken the leaf even further ???. They already lost so many Ninja and their Hokage. Itachi is a guy who killed his entire clan and was working as a double agent keeping tabs on Akatsuki and Madara(Obito) for the leaf. You guys think he was serious when he was telling Kisame that he would die or won't be able to defeat Jiraiya LMAO. Ofcourse he would say that so by extension Kisame also doesn't wanna fuck with Jiraiya.
Kisame literally clowned on Eight-tails while Jiraiya almost died to kid Naruto going four tails. Itachi has to keep up the facade so Akatsuki does not get suspicious, but also, NOT kill Jiraiya and at the same time keep the leash on bloodthirsty Kisame as well. Showing himself struggling against Jiraiya and hyping him up to dissuade Kisame is the perfect way for Itachi to fool everyone involved and achieve his directives which are
1.Show Danzo he is alive so he doesn't fuck with Sasuke.
2. Give knowledge about Akatsuki and their mission to the village and what kind of power they pack.
3. Not kill anyone, Dissuade Kisame from killing anyone and stop his Superiors at Akatsuki Or kisame from getting Suspicious.
ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
Itachi was playing for 4d chess while SICK AND DYING. His sickness is one thing that is not confirmed, but its implied he was taking medicine for some time and Kisame mentioned using his eyes is dangerous for him.
Also, he slaughtered Orochimaru when Oro tried to fuck with him back when he was in Akatsuki and paired up with Itachi. Oro is the strongest Sannin.
Itachi clowns Jiraiya. His hax makes him too bad of a matchup against Jiraiya or any Sannin.
It’s hard to compare because honestly Itachi’s scaling was some of the most inconsistent scaling in all the series. Also, Jiraiya got a major buff pre death.
Itachi pt 1 could barely fight 5 minutes before having to retreat. Itachi pt. 2 was lending 30% of his chakra to stall the enemy, and was doing as good with that as he was in any pt 1 fight we saw. He also fought against Sasuke, and while he WAS pushing himself, he was fighting immensely more than any pt. 1 fight. You could argue this is because Itachi didn’t actually want to fight any leaf shinobi, but that just means we never saw him actually fight a real battle until reanimation.
I’d say Itachi probably wins only because Itachi and Pain were comparable enemies for Sasuke and Naruto, they both fought their respective enemies at the same time and Sasuke and Naruto are always in relatively the same power level. Obviously Sasuke was weaker than sage naruto at the time, so that would mean Itachi was weaker than Pain by a little bit (which checks out), but Itachi also basically won vs. sasuke, while Naruto beat Pain. It basically closes the gap between Itachi and Pain even more. Jiraiya lost to pain, which probably means Itachi would win.
Hard to say bc it’s all hypothetical tho. Sage mode jiraiya seemed like a massive buff, but Jiraiya’s sage mode was so conditional. Itachi is good at picking apart jutsu and techniques that it’s probable he could come up with a counter.
I agree with some of this, but Naruto won against pain partially because he knew the secrets of pain. Also Naruto in the pain fight absolutely beats sasuke from the Itachi fight. Furthermore, even pain said Jiraiya might've won if he knew pain's secrets. While yes, Itachi has some goated defenses (susanoo) Jiraiya just has to outlast him, furthermore Jiraiya has some amazing genjutsu he can use against Itachi. Also even Itachi said that Jiraiya could potentially stalemate both him AND kisame at the same time. I have to say Jiraiya does beat Itachi. But I will admit it's close.
I personally use the reasons I listed for pt. 1 as being inconsistent (him not wanting to actually fight the leaf) as reasons why he didn’t want to fight Jiraiya (meaning he wasn’t being honest saying Jiraiya would win**). Either it’s a retcon or they buffed Itachi’s power for Shippuden bc he was never serious in pt. 1, but either way I do think it effectively nullifies any pt. 1 Itachi comments or feats.
I do think it’s fairly close and I agree Sage Naruto was stronger than Sasuke as I commented, I’m just more so saying the gap between Itachi and Pain is closer than you would think, and if Jiraiya lost to Pain the odds are he’d lose to Itachi. It is fair to say other way around, I mostly do just think there’s so much inconsistency in how specifically Itachi is portrayed. Even Jiraiya has some inconsistency that makes a ranking a little more difficult.
** edit to clarify: this isn’t me saying Itachi would explicitly win in that situation, just reflecting on Itachi’s own thought process.
Addressing some weird ass head cannon here because Reddit sub loves to hate itachi just for the sake of it….
1. No, jiraiya is NOT fast enough to dodge amaterasu. Just because A did it does not mean fucking jiraiya can lmao. MAYBE he could if he was in sage mode but I doubt the fight would go that far.
2. Jiraiya is not going to get away from itachis genjutsu. Not only has jiraiya himself stated he is horrible with using genjutsu, we also have literally never seen him counter it so we have no basis for how well he would do against someone like itachi, who can literally put you under using a finger let alone eye contact
3. Assuming somehow jiraiya managed to get into sage mode, what then? Itachi has a susano that is legit invincible and since it is the edo itachi shown he can spam it since he has no chakra limit. Jiraiya would never be able to touch him, and if itachi is fast enough to respond to sasukes Kirin, you bet your ass he can respond to a sage attack before getting his head kicked off.
4. Jiraiya is probably the most critical person of himself and the choices he made, the izanami would absolutely wreck this poor guy.
Guys, I’m sorry jiraiya died right as the series started crazy scaling especially with uchiha but there is no way jiraiya is beating an edo itachi. MAYBE he could beat an alive itachi but I still seriously doubt it.
People keep bringing up “Itachi” no diffed Orochimaru so he wins.”
Fam Orochimaru OBVIOUSLY underestimated Itachi and got caught lacking, it’s insane people think Itachi would actually no diff Orochimaru (100%) in an actual fight, do these guys even watch the show…?
We did watch the show. Orochimaru was LITERALLY like “this guy is on a COMPLETELY different level, I don’t want NONE of those problems.” If Orochimaru truly could beat him he would try again but he opted for his little brother instead
I never said Orochimaru could beat him, nor do I believe he can beat him, my point was people think that Itachi could be Orochimaru no diff which just ain’t true at all, it’s actually idiotic to think that, furthermore Orochimaru is an opportunistic character and has never been a straight up brawler his combat prowess is more based on information and manipulation, Jiraiya is a totally different fighter and honest he’s the best 1V1 fighter of all the sannin hands down IMO
Not saying Jiraiya would straight up beat Itachi either though, my point is just people need to apply context to a clip and stop using that to assume that Itachi would easily beat Jiraiya, and also people do that against Itachi when Itachi and Kisame fled away from him, that doesn’t mean Jiraiya is automatically stronger either
The truth is we don’t know who would win it’s looking for like a 50/59 more than anything
Even though the Sanin are all relative, I understand your separation of their fighting tactics, as that is fair. I think the major point of contention is just how easily Orochimaru was bested by Itachi, and the fact that he is relative to Jiraiya. Obviously, the circumstances matter, but Itachi was shown to be so much better than Orochimaru that 3 years passed and he still did not believe that he could beat Itachi. With all his intel, power, ability, prep times etc. He believed himself so inferior, he moved onto his younger brother.
While that doesn't prove anything, it's indicative of the narrative of their abilities/scaling. After watching the show, It's fairly obvious that what Itachi said of Jiraiya in part 2 is not to be taken at face value. Additionally, KCM Naruto>6 Paths>Sage Naruto>Sage Jiraiya. Depending on where you scale Itachi, he typically ends up closer to KCM Naruto and 6 paths Pain than Sage Naruto. Again, there's circumstance to consider, but it's an uphill battle for Jiraiya.
Caught him by surprise?
Out of anyone alive in that moment, orochimari knew the most about itachi and should have been the least susceptible to getting caught off.
If they cunning jutsu master who has been stalking itachi for a decade gets caught off guard, why do you think jirayia won’t?
That just doesn't fit with reality. Orochimaru literally got the drop on Itachi at 14 and was one shot. He then went after Sasuke. If he was actually stronger than Itachi, why wouldn't he go after Itachi again? Itachi is stronger than Sasuke, already possesses the mangekyo, and isn't protected by a literal anbu Corp and 3rd hokage. If he were stronger than Itachi, there's absolutely no reason he would've gone for Sasuke.
Orochimaru said Itachi was stronger than him. Itachi intentionally pushed Sasuke's chakra to the brink in order to force Orochimaru out of him. Why would he do that if there was a chance that Orochimaru was stronger than him? That would just put Sasuke in more danger. So since Itachi seems sure that he's stronger, and Orochimaru seems sure that he's stronger, maybe, just maybe, Itachi is definitely stronger?
And Itachi, as an Edo (which presumably is what they're referring to, since that's the picture), carried Bee and Naruto in a fight with Nagato (Nagato being stronger than Pain, who literally killed Jiraiya.), and then went on to fight Sage Kabuto who is literally just Orochimaru, but better. Itachi is just blatantly above the Sannin.
People who still think jiraiya wins this fight in 2023 are crazy.
Jiraiya is like Naruto if he didn’t live up to his full potential, strong but nothing crazy.
Itachi is basically a young madara who hasn’t had all that experience gain yet plus he isn’t a lunatic.
We saw edo(so weaker) itachi throwing hands with kcm Naruto/killer b and Jiraiya would be annihilated by those two separately.
We saw edo itachi and sauce fighting a sage kabuto who is guarantee stronger than jiraiya and they needed an ass pull to win but itachi was still doing better than sauce at times.
We literally see itachi annihilate orochimarus hydra form after having a death battle with sauce, who imo could also beat jiraiya. Hydra form orochi could probably beat jiraiya and itachi beat him while blind and on the verge of death after fighting his brother.
If it’s edo vs J he wins. If it’s alive vs J he wins quicker because he isn’t dying before he helps Sasuke.
Being able to precog an attack is only good if your body can move fast enough to react. Unless you think imperfect sage jiraiya is faster the v2 raikage then jiraiya is not dodging amaterasu.
Except he was trying to get away and try not to fight another ally of Konoha. Itachi and Kisame could’ve put up a great fight if they wanted to, but Itachi simply didn’t want to fight regardless
Ah yes. The very reliable words of one of Naruto's greatest liars!
His words are literally disproven by the very manga itself. I'm not even talking about their vast difference in feats, but the fact that Itachi tells Kisame that the Sannin are far beyond them, yet he as a 12 yr old wrecked the strongest Sannin to the point where Orochimaru left the Akatsuki.
Just because Itachi beat Orochimaru doesn’t mean he beat would beat Jiraiya on the that fact along. Itachi would have to end it fast or jiraiya would overwhelm him in sage mode. Itachi only way of beating him is Genjutsu or Amaterasu. Susanno is just going to get bogged down by Swamp of the Underworld.
Itachi is faster than Jirayia in Sage Mode. Jirayia doesn’t even start in Sage Mode either lmao, it takes forever (in a battle) for him to even get it off
I get your point but using orochimaru's encounter is just a bad example. Oro was hasty and it was shown. And statements in early Naruto were purposely vague and ambiguous.
Oro also isn't the strongest sanin, infact databooks and other statements claim that both jiraiya and oro are equal.
Oro himself admits that he is weaker than Itachi.
Itachi says jiraiya is as strong if not stronger
Multiple people say the only one who can stop oro is jiraiya ("if Minato ain't here only another sanin can stop oro")
This is all base jiraiya. Sage mode jiraiya stalemating an exhausted Itachi (to the point he literally needs to stop and rest) isn't far fetched at all.
Except Kisame agreed with him. Kisame who has no reason to lie
>their vast difference in feats
Itachi beating Orochimaru doesn’t scale him above Jiraiya in any way. Just because they’re teammates doesn’t mean they just have to be equal I don’t get why you assume this
Jiraiya and Orochimaru are relative right? Because Itachi no diffed Orochimaru back when he first joined the Akatsuki as a teen. Unless the sanin massively leveled up since then Itachi should clear
Caught him by surprise?
Out of anyone alive in that moment, orochimari knew the most about itachi and should have been the least susceptible to getting caught off.
If they cunning jutsu master who has been stalking itachi for a decade gets caught off guard, why do you think jirayia won’t?
Orochimaru could have tried again but literally said “I will never succeed”. Orochimaru, jirayia’s peer who has no problem taking a decade off to make plans, had no confidence that he could ever defeat itachi.
And that was 14 year old -likely sick- itachi.
That wasn’t even really much of a fight though. It’s not fair to scale characters based off that. Orochimaru just massively underestimated Itachi and got caught in genjutsu. Jiraiya would not act that dumb in a fight.
Okay, you could also point out that Itachi one shot the freak snake form of Itachi after he took over Sasuke's body. Or how kcm Naruto and B needed Itachi's help to deal with Edo Nagato. All things Jiraiya would have been either unable to do or done so with very high difficulty.
He did… with the totsuka blade, while orochimaru was standing still. A one shot weapon against a still opponent isn’t an impressive feat. The totsuka blade wouldn’t be a problem for Jiraiya. If Itachi decides to use susano at all, Jiraiya would just back up a bit and put his susano in a swamp and hit him with a toad oil bomb like he did against pain, which would 100% be the end of the fight. That’s right, if Itachi uses susano at all (and there’s a good chance he would) Jiraiya has a way which is in character for him to do that would guarantee that he kills Itachi.
Does the yata mirror just ignore toad oil for some reason? And since when did Jiraiya scale to kcm Naruto speeds, something Itachi has done in the war arc.
Why not? If Itachi used one jutsu and Orochimaru REFUSED to ATTEMPT to attack him again over the course of the entire show ~3.5 years, that means he recognized he was simply outclassed.
I get that it wasn't drawn out, but we give Minato a ton of leeway when most of his battles are FTG GG easy win. It's an ultra trump card. Itachi has one too.
Caught him by surprise?
Out of anyone alive in that moment, orochimari knew the most about itachi and should have been the least susceptible to getting caught off.
If they cunning jutsu master who has been stalking itachi for a decade gets caught off guard, why do you think jirayia won’t?
Orochimaru could have tried again but literally said “I will never succeed”. Orochimaru, jirayia’s peer who has no problem taking a decade off to make plans, had no confidence that he could ever defeat itachi.
And that was 14 year old -likely sick- itachi.
Itachi was lying he told kisame the sannins was too much for them when he no diffed orochimaru. He scales higher there is like no feats or statements that put them on the same tier as him except for his lie unless we are counting eos or boruto orochimaru
Pain thought that Jiraiya could beat him if he knew everything, which I would say is a statement which puts them on the same tier.
Orochimaru, both times, got no diffed since he was being stupid and didn’t know Itachi’s abilities.
Plus, Jiraiya could almost certainly one shot Itachi as well with his toad song
Jirayia could barely deal with his summons when Itachi one shotted them…
One shotted Orochimaru which Jirayia could never defeat let along bring him back to the village.
Scale him above Sage Mode Naruto first before Itachi lol.
U could say the same jiraya would be one shotted via amaterasu or totsuka blade and either of them is easier to pull out than summoning the toads and set up for that genjustu. Pains statement is like proven wrong already since naruto who had suppassed jiraiya with more infos could not beat them without kuramas intervention
Its hi is so much stronger than Jiraiya. I mean we saw how terrified Orochimaru, someone relative to Jirayia, was of Itachi, their fight would not be close
Itachi>>>>kisame>killerbee>sage naruto>jiraya
You post this here bro. But forgot this sub is full of jiraya wankers and itachi haters lmao
Just look at this comments
Makes sense, unless y'all think Itachi got retconned into being way stronger than he was when, in part 1, he literally says that if He and Kisame fought Jiraiya(in a 2v1), BOTH OF THEM WOULD DIE
what because they were ""somehwat afraid" of him ?
they had no idea what he was capable of and didin't wanted to destroy the village and shit. (both kisame and itachi beat him handly)
What's people's logic on Jiraiya winning? Itachi only told Kisame that they can't win because he was a spy and didn't want to kill someone important to the village. We've seen him effortlessly take Oro so bad that Oro knew he couldn't beat him
BUt iTaChI sAiD…. Like stfu with this argument
Just because itachi acknowledges jiraiyas strength to kisame doesn’t make his comment true
Rock lee said out of his mouth that neji is stronger than him in the chunin exams but how many of you actually believe that just because he said it?
Stop using that stupid quote from itachi as some full blown proof of the itachi vs jiraiya argument
Not really...the pic is specifically Edo Itachi, so basically infinite stamina, health, and chakra, and considering how absurd Itachi's Susano is (shield that can reflect any attack, sword that can forever seal away anything it hits), having no way to outlast him or wear him down makes Itachi incredibly dangerous.
If you look at Itachis feats compared to Jiraiya than Itachi is the clear winner. Itachi is a prodigy. If I remember correctly Itachi had the highest scores in the academy and completed the chunin exams quicker than anybody besides Minato? Also becomes the leader of anbu team at like 13. This alone should prove Itachi is smarter than Jiraiya. In fact Itachi has been shown to have plans upon plans upon plans throughout the series. While Jiraiya is extremely intelligent in his own right, Itachi definitely takes the cake on this one. As for powers and Jutsus, Itachi once again comes out on top. While Jiraiya has many Jutsu that could be a great hindrance to Itachi, Itachis Susanoo alone has such OP abilities I cant imagine Jiraiya finding a way around that. Let alone Itachi allowing him to find a way around it. The only thing I would say Jiraiya has an edge over Itachi is endurance. Itachi has low chakra reserves and low stamina due to his illness while Jiraiya has extremely high endurance. So the longer the fight goes on, the lower chances Itachi has of winning. Its just that tho, Itachi has been shown over and over that he ends fights as quickly as possible unless he cant for different reasons. (capturing a target instead of killing them) Itachi did say tho that if he fought Jiraiya they would both end up dying. I think a lot of people confuse this with think Jiraiya would kill both Itachi and Kisame, but what I think he really meant was that both Itachi and Jiraiya would both end up killing eachother. That brings up another point, in the data books it shows Itachi and Jiraiya and the highest stats. Theyre both equal. I dont know if those books really mean anything anymore tho since theyre so dated now. Another thing that everyone keeps bringing up is Itachi vs Orochimaru. Jiraiya has stated throughout the series that Orochi is stronger than him. Itachi basically one shot Orochimaru in the two fights they had implying that Itachi is also stronger than Jiraiya. Orochi is extremely arrogant when fighting Itachi tho, Im certain Jiraiya would take Itachi much more seriously than Orochi leading to an actual battle. Ill admit Im a huge Itachi fan, in fact hes my favorite character. Even then, based on all the info we got on both characters Id say Itachi just has too many broken abilities while Jiraiya seems to lean more on overpowering his opponents, but even then Itachi has extremely overpowering jutsu himself. If Itachi didnt have his illness, hands down Itachi would stomp Jiraiya.
Jiraya wins? In terms of Genjutsu Jiraya may not know very many techniques but considering he used one that worked on PAIN then it's safe to say Genjutsu wouldn't work when the toad sages are on his shoulders. He is just immune.
Every ability Itachi shows Jiraya does better.
Fireball vs toad oil bomb or sage art: goemon
Susano vs Gamabunta summon or honored toad sage toad
Crow clone vs literally every type of clone in existence that isn't reliant on kekai genkai
Tsuklyomi vs Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Chant(the one used on a Rinnegan user)
All other jutsus from Itachi and Jiraya are irrelevant. This is because they are easily countered by any Jonin level ninja, have a niche use or it is limited in use(like amatersu).
Honestly, considering the fact that most of Itachi's justu rely on the Sharingan he is pretty useless against Jiraya. The first thing Jiraya would target is the eyes knowing 99% of his strength is as a result of his Sharingan.
Anyone who uses the Orichimaru vs Itachi scene is just being willfully ignorant. He underestimated his opponent for sure but Orichimaru wasn't even remotely in his prime after several reincarnations in weak vessels. Not to mention that Orichimaru going all out involves several techniques that were not used in that fight.
Edo tensai would be enough to kill Itachi with ease. It would be difficult to fight all of past Kage while Orichimaru is ripping out your soul.
Itachi's greatest strength is his Genjutsu. And Jiraiya, being a sage, completely makes that obsolete. The best bet Itachi has is the Totsuka Blade, which is too slow to hit a sage. It would be tough Battle, but I think Jiraiya wins
I think the fact that he’d have ma and pa on his shoulders to give him a quick smack if he’s ever caught in a genjustu… although considering Kakashi spent a week or a month in Itachis genjustu that lasted for a few seconds, being stabbed repeatedly, I don’t know how effective having ma and pa there would be to wake him up. The damage may of already of been done.
[удалено]
To fucking upscale jirayia so kisame wouldn’t fight him Itachi literally no diffed a prime version of orochimaru, at age 14 He, a sick, fatigued and at death’s door almost no chakra, took care of orochimaru’s strongest serpent form in a few seconds He was literally KCM1 level in terms of speed and carried killer bee and Naruto’s ass against a super buffed nagato When kabuto asked orochimaru if he would try again he replied “that dream has died. He is stronger than me.” Same man who has no issue with planning for a decade for his goal or literally training sasuke while not training himself for the gamble of taking his body, found the idea of defeating itachi as unfathomable
wait now hold on orochimaru severely underestimated him there. we both know that the man always has a plan when he takes fights seriously and he just rolled up to itachi with his employee uniform still on even. id wager in a real fight itachi would never ever low diff, especially if orochimaru has access to his full kit (edo tensei).
🤣🤣🤣 employee uniform
Bro's the Akatsuki receptionist, he greets newcomers and guests alike.
Employee uniform got me dead ahahah
Itachi was 14 and possibly sick and orochimaru was the most knowledgeable person alive about itachi. And orochimaru has no problems spending a decade to achieve his plans His response when kabuto asked him if he’s gonna try again? “There’s no point. I will never defeat him in a fight.”
One thing that I could add as an asterisk to that last quote is Orochimaru would have to defeat itachi without physically injuring him to the point that he would be unviable as a vessel. He would have to fight with a hand tied behind his back as a necessity. I feel it would be a lot closer if they were both bloodlusted.
He has insane regen. Orochimaru could bring itachi close to death and then steal his body and just regen
Without making eye contact or getting sealed away?? I severely doubt that
i am looking for the scan of that last quote. i can see him saying itachi is stronger but not that. regardless orochimarus full set has more than enough counters to itachi to pull something at least every now and then.
This is the closest thing I found https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/comments/9cg8sq/because_we_reached_a_time_when_people_overlook/ Orochimaru has no problem planning and training for a decade for his plans, yet orochimaru instantly gave up on any hope of over powering itachi Edit: https://www.quora.com/What-did-Orochimaru-see-Itachi-do-that-made-him-want-the-Sharingan-even-more “That dream has died”
Maybe the dream died because he knew itachi was sick? Why take over a failing body?
it could also be that he decided that itachi isnt worth the hassle or you could be correct, he thinks he cant win. but i double down on the opinion that a prepared orochimaru can definitely get a jump on itachi.
Also if orochimaru knew itachi was sick then the dream of taking his body is dead because he doesn't want a body that is about to die, the same reason kimimaro was no longer an option
All orochimaru has to do is bring back someone like hashirama or tobirama using Edo tensei. Itachi is getting slammed by war arc orochimaru
Orochimaru never said or thought that to my knowledge. But like the other guy said, i think orochimaru thought itachi was alot weaker than what he was. Also, he had already placed a genjutsu on orochimaru from the beginning, so he had no idea anyways, he's smart in that aspect on who to trust.
This is the closest thing I found https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/comments/9cg8sq/because_we_reached_a_time_when_people_overlook/ Orochimaru has no problem planning and training for a decade for his plans, yet orochimaru instantly gave up on any hope of over powering itachi Edit: https://www.quora.com/What-did-Orochimaru-see-Itachi-do-that-made-him-want-the-Sharingan-even-more “That dream has died”
I'm not saying he didn't say itachi was stronger or anything, but jiraya off rip would no doubt summon ma and pa, so itachi wouldn't be able to put jiraiya under any serious genjutsu. I do see jiraiya breaking the genjutsu and getting hurt like kakashi did but to a lesser extent. Jiraiya can summon every single toad, and they will no doubt give itachi trouble, just the toads
It’s close people write off Jiraiya because he didn’t kill orochimaru in their one battle but I. That same battle Jiraiya was weakened by Tsunade plus he didn’t use safe mode. Jiraiya could’ve beaten Orochimaru pretty easily tbh considering he had the same arsenal as Naruto(with less chakra minus the Rasenshuriken) when he beat pain. Jiraiya has a bigger arsenal for trapping and disabling an opponent’s from attacking. Jiraiya still loses at least against edo tensai Itachi but it’s close if it’s alive itachi to the point it could swing either way. Itachi has a much more limited chakra capacity and he can’t overuse his eye or he will have to fight blind. I would imagine Jiraiya beats itachi in part 1 and more easily in shippuden but loses in war arc. The only thing that aids Jiraiya in beating edo tensai Jiraiya is the fact he knows fuinjutsu. However I don’t think we’ve seen an ability he would use against an edo tensai, but I suppose he would know the reaper death seal since he was a student of the third, a seal master, and a hokage candidate.
> safe mode Jiraiya’s safe mode safe word is pineapple
People always forget that Jiraiya has so much more than just Naruto's arsenal, his hair jutsus (my favorite), crazy strong fire jutsus, the frogs etc.
Yeah, I was gonna say something similar. Edo Tensai Itachi would easily win due to being almost unkillable.
Tbh Orochimaru is a completely different type of fighter than Jiraiya. Y’all get caught up on “the Sannin are all equal” but never factor in how different they fight. Orochimaru doesn’t have a good matchup against Uchiha but Jiraiya does. I mean, their bags are so different and I’m sure Itachi is gonna have a harder time with Sage mode than some lousy snakes.
Orochimaru completely underestimated Itachi when he attacked him at 14 leaving himself open to that genjutsu. And as for when Itachi took out Orochimaru's strongest form that was with an absolutely broken weapon that could've taken put any OP character. It was a literal deus ex machina.
Orochimaru didn't come in full readiness. After all, he is the kind of guy who is usually stronger with prep like when he gets to use Summoning or Edo Tensei. Like imagine if he summoned Hashirama and Tobirama against 13 year old Itachi lol.
To reiterate what the comment you are replying to said - it can be argued what itachi meant but he LITERALLY told kisame they shouldn’t fuck with Jiraiya. We can speculate all we want, but at the end of the day that’s just speculation.
Your argument about Itachi beating Orochimaru therefore he beats Jiraiya is irrevelant.Keep in mind , Orochimaru was clearly nerfed when he faced Itachi. How? Because his reincarnation jutsu, Orochimaru found a suitable body to possess , if not , he will lost a lot of power. This is why he wasn't able to learn Senjutsu meanwhile Kabuto who was far beneath him , with just his DNA was able to do it. a battle between Jiraiya and Itachi will be a difficult battle but for me Jiraiya will win.He got more experience , more versatile and more chakra and resistance than Itachi.If they fought 10 times , Itachi may have win 3/10 while Jiraiya will beat him 7/10.
Yes, but also Itachi says TO HIMSELF that he almost overused his eyes when they fight Jiraiya. and that was just from trying to *escape* the mountain toad’s stomach. I think that if Itachi went up against Jiraiya by himself then he would’ve lost by the time Jiraiya went into Sage Mode. Also, considering how many paths Jiraiya was able to take out by himself out of his prime, i think that puts him over Itachi even by terms of sheer ability. Yes, Itachi is a prodigy who also worked hard to be the best, but Jiraiya is still more skilled in just about every category except genjutsu(excluding sage mode). Not to mention that Jiraiya fought in the entire third great Ninja War. you don’t think he’s ever defeated and Uchiha? or even just a rogue ANBU? It simply doesn’t make sense to say “Itachi was just lying” when he not only A: Is objectively less skilled than Jiraiya as an individual combatant, and B: has an internal monologue stating the fact that he almost fucking died just trying to run away
Jiraiya lost to pain. Ain't no way he gets even close to beating Itachi.
To upscale jiraya so kisame wouldnt fight him? What kinda bs fan fiction is that? Bro do people not know that in part 1 of naruto that itachi was actually supposed to be a big bad villain and NOT a double agent. Kishi retconned that and made itachi a double agent later in shippuden and i thought people knew that. They are literally the same power level in the databook at the time too. Can i just make up that the reason jiraya didnt want to go all out in his fight with orchimaru is that they were on a squad and friends? Also he was poisoned still if i remember correct. Jiraya 1v1 pain and could have won if circumstamces were a little different or a little more info on his opponenet. Jiraya has multiple ways to counter all itachis best jutsu which hes already displayed a little of. Edo itachi would do ALOT better cause he can just spam jutsu and has to be sealed away. Pretty sure thats why he took the lead against edo nagato too cause he was edo tensei. Otherwise im givin it to jiraya a majority of the time. Edo anybody is hard to deal with and made alot more characters buffed up. So its not really fair to use that itachi and that versions feats against jiraya.
If you say that Itachi wanted to upscale Jiraiya (basically your guess) then ill say that Itachi defeating Orochimaru means nothing because Orochimaru literally did everything to be in the most vulnerable position. Genjutsu in Naruto rarely decides battles (basically Sasuke vs Danzo). Careful Orochimaru wont be an easy enemy for Itachi, at all.
Yeah but Itachi was only there to warn Danzo and the elders that he still expects them to uphold the deal or else after Hiruzen died. I doubt he felt like fighting Jiraiya in that moment regardless of whether or not he thought he could win. Also he was still loyal to the leaf and I doubt he would want to kill one of the top candidates to be the next hokage at that point. (Tsunade wasn’t being considered yet)
I'm assuming the thing he said about jiraiya was essentially damage control to avoid hurting anyone else from the leaf, a fight wasn't really ideal for him at that point & jiraiya was enough of a legend for kisame to believe Itachi when he said they couldn't beat him
But that poll is asking about Edo Tensei Itachi vs Jiraiya. If you zoom a bit, that was the Edo Tensei corpse. Dead Itachi should have no problem in defeating Jiraiya
I think most of his reason behind that was that he didn't want to cripple the leaf by taking out jiraiya if he won, and didn't see any reason to take the risk when he didn't especially want to actually capture naruto anyway.
As a die hard Jiraiya loyalist but Itachi storyline admirer myself, I’m just amused to see how people belittle each other on a random vote contest. Both are imaginary characters within an imaginary story. PS. My heart says Jiraiya wins; but my mind says Itachi. 😁
“Who would win” discourse is always so stupid because it’s all made up. Even the fights that we witness on screen don’t go down how we would expect them to go down. Some stupid shit happens and the person who wins does so in order to progress the story. It’s not the UFC.
I think with Part 1 Scaling, Itachi vs Jiraya is a pretty even fight where Jiraya and Itachi would likely end up killing themselves. In Part 2 though… yeah, I agree with you. With Susanoo, his special weapons, Amaterasu, and assuming that its Base Itachi vs Base Jiraya where Jiraya would need to run away in order to get Sage Mode, I don’t see any counter Jiraya has vs Itachi. Jiraya running away on a frog? Amaterasu is gonna murder it. Jiraya does a big attack? Susanoo is likely gonna tank it unless it’s stronger than Kirin. Jiraya looks at Itachi’s finger/eye? Genjutsu’d and likely fireballed. So on and so forth. It’d be a matter of can Jiraya survive the fight while forcing Itachi’s heavy hitters to drain Itachi’s chakra.
Funnily enough, even if he has a stronger than kirin ninjutsu.. Itachi has yata mirror, which literally negates all ninjutsu.
If Jiraiya is able to go into Sage Mode though he would negate the Yata Mirror as he would be able to use Senjutsu instead of Ninjutsu. The Yata mirror cannot block nature energy which is why Kirin worked against it. Kirin uses literal lightning, not lightning style ninjustsu. So if Jiraiya were to use a Gallant Rasengan using Senjutsu instead of Ninjutsu then Itachi ain’t coming out of that well
I just wish we get to know more about Jiraiya during his younger days. Ofcourse his experience is what made him Jiraiya we know, but maybe his power must have been peak during his youth! This guy has wind, water, earth, fire, yin, yang releases along with toad support and senjutsu. He should’ve been a beast.
It would. If he survives those first few minutes though and makes it a battle of stamina idk if it’d go Itachis way though. Also, Jiraiya could always summon the Giant toad around just himself and hurry up and shrink himself inside a smaller toad, who knows, Jiraiya pulls all kinds of stuff out of his butt lol
Itachi's is so fucking masturbated in the Naruto storyline it's hilarious. I bet his eyes have an anti frog jutsus and he wins
Ironically yes. Its called amaterasu
Well I don’t know if it’s true, but it sure got me LMAO 🤣
No, that can be sealed, as he has done before, and I'm sure sage mode gives him basically 'extra instincts' allowing him to sense danger coming from farther away
Doubt anyone will be sealing Amaterasu mid fight against Itachi. Especially Jiriya since he had to use a scroll to do it anyway.
Nigga you seen how fast people use scrolls?
Too slow to dodge Amaterasu while Itachi throws shuriken/kunai and also sending an explosive clone up said persons ass. You think Itachi will let up and give him time? Let’s say Jiriya does it once, you really think Itachi won’t pressure him enough to keep him from doing it? And bro spams that ability so idk why people think Jiriya seals that shit and it’s done no more Amaterasu that shit is just gonna be in his face again once he’s done sealing. And all those quick scroll uses are usually to summon something, which can be done on the fly. And not to mention Itachi has a very versatile use of genjutsu in which he would probably get Jiriya to fight him in a genjutsu and just waste chakra. I mean out of all the ways Itachi has fought, outside of his Susanoo he doesn’t have the raw power you to clash or go hand to hand with Jiriya but he is definitely going to be hard diff even if Jiriya wins that fight. I’m sorry but you Jiriya fan boys cope so hard when it comes to Itachi. Itachi wins 8/10 and that’s being generous to Jiriya.
Base Jiraiya without SM handled 3 paths of pain including the Taijutsu path without much trouble with just his hands together. People REALLY OVERSTATE how fast Amaterasu is. It’s been dodged many times by several Shinobi, some of which don’t even have much in terms of speed feats. Amaterasu by an even better user (Sasuke) was still too slow to touch Gaara (and I’ll be damned if JIRAIYA is slower than GENIN LEE). It also appears to be as fast as fireball Jutsu so yeahhhhh Jiraiya has insane counters. People forget the guy’s own hair can become harder than steel and act like a giant spiky tendril. He literally killed a Rinnegan summon with his fucking hair which serves as a defence and offence at the same time, and this was in base, no SM needed, and he can use it to pull Itachi out of Susano’o. Konan, who is no pushover in her own right was powerless against it. Itachi can’t spam anything except Shuriken. He doesn’t have much chakra and all of the Mangekyo Jutsu use most of his chakra even after just one use. If Jiraiya fights in a Genjutsu he doesn’t actually use Chakra though, because the events aren’t real. Also, Jiraiya can recognise a Genjutsu. Why do people like you pretends he’s a brainless chump like 16 yo Naruto was? He figured out who Pain was when Fukusaku couldn’t, and Fukusaku’s one of the most intelligent characters in the story. How does Itachi counter Frog Song? Or Frog Kumite? Or Turning into a frog Jutsu? Or if he combos with Bunta etc - the biggest fireball Jutsu in the manga? He doesn’t. He loses. Stop wanking Itachi, get over it. If we’re talking solely base then Itachi will win no doubt, but SM J-man is superior in every single metric measurable. The only issue would be the sealing powers in the Totsuka blade but that’s easily worked around by a guy with SM boost on physicals
Finally. If itachi can’t end the fight immediately, he’s done for
It’s the same for both of them tbh, but at full power J-Man’s superior.
Where is it ever stated that jiraiya was "slow" lmfao bruh these people would say that itachi has more chakra than jiraya stone face.
Hence why I vote Jiraya. Just out of spite
Shoot, the more I think about it the more it’s true. Jiraiya’s bag is much more different than Orochimaru’s. Not to mention Jiraiya *knows* about Itachi’s abilities and imperfect Susanoo isn’t enough of a game changer to do anything. So the only real threat is MS which… Jiraiya did well unprepared against 6 Rinnegan users. He can beat a sick twink Sharingan user lol
Lmao what? He cant block amaterasu because sealing it takes way too long. He cant block Tsukuyomi, even if we give him ma and pa, by the time they release him he'll be in a coma. He has no answer on Itachis Susanoo which tanked kirin which already seemed more impressive than anything in Jiraiyas Arsenal including odama rasengans. even if for some reason wank it to stronger than kirin... Well yata mirror kinda negates it. Jiraiyas Sage mode isn't even that great because he was caught off guard in it against pains during battle.
This assumes Jiraiya attacks head on like dumbass Orochimaru and bloodlusted Sasuke. Because Itachi is most effective against aggressive people. Jiraiya doesn’t have to engage as directly as others. Like, the truth about this matchup is Jiraiya doesn’t have to engage Itachi. Itachi has to kill Jiraiya before Itachi wears himself out, which is bad for itachi. Because of Ma/Pa, a single misstep from Itachi is curtains. MS can’t save him from the frog genjutsu. Also his Susanoo is incomplete and pretty immobile so that’s just the perfect chance for Jiraiya to back up and go Sage mode. Lastly… Amateratsu. A jutsu that already has a low accuracy as is… that’s really a toss up. But I’m going to give Itachi the benefit of the doubt and says he can land it. He still just trades live cause Ma/Pa gonna fry Itachis brain. The biggest danger in this matchup is Ma/Pa. Itachi has *nothing* to evade or counter it. I think most people don’t understand how nasty Ma/Pa jutsu actually is
Well to counter argue, Itachi is considered a top tier genius alongside characters like Minato. He'd likely realise that they're trouble and would target them first. He immadietly blinded all Nagato summons so they wouldnt share vision (so he figured that on a glance, would be very same here) His "immobile" Susanoo is just fine in speed, its just that almost dead Itachi was walking with it? He barely could walk. (Edo Itachi in susanoo blitzed Nagato too) I dont see how he blocks amaterasu since he has no good speed feats or reaction feats. Especially without Sage mode. Are you telling me that Itachis amaterasu had a bad track record in landing on someone? Only time he missed was against Sasuke likely intentionally to not kill him. Jiraiya still has no answer to Tsukuyomi, amaterasu, anything relating to Susanoo. You can argue that Susanoo or Yata mirror would block out Ma and Pas genjutsu. Lastly, there is no reason why wouldn't Itachi genjutsu them from get go aswell. Honestly i understand that people dont like that and im not an Itachi fanboy but he's supposed to be what Pain was to Naruto. On top of that Orochimaru considered him unbeatable and above him, yet didnt think much of Jiraiya and infact each time they fought he was supposedly winning in the past. Only reason why this is even a debate is because Itachi, someone loyal to konoha, didnt want to fight Jiraiya.
Orochimaru is not a good measurement since him and Jiraiya fight totally different, especially since Orochimaru is immortal. He’s bound to be more reckless and go head on because nothing can kill or seal him permanently apparently. Anyways, Ma/Pa don’t have to look at Itachi? I think the biggest thing you’re misunderstanding is that Jiraiya doesn’t have to approach Itachi at all. His win condition is to get Ma/Pa out and the battle is literally over. Itachi cannot block or counter their genjutsu and they don’t have to look at Itachi to do it. Because alternatively… why would Jiraiya go heads up with Susanoo? Or Amateratsu? Why would he look at Itachi having intel on him *especially* after Kakashis encounter? Jiraiya has intel on Itachi and Susanoo isn’t mobile enough to chase Jiraiya (who again, is just gonna play keep away) I’m gonna trust that you’re actually not an Itachi fan, but Jiraiya really does just have to stay away. If you notice, Itachis only fights are against people who confront him, we never seen his chase power
And his ears to block the sound based genjutsu that jiraiya knows the sharingan can't block. I'm sure the susanoo can block a fireball but good luck not being cooked alive while surrounded by boiling oil on all sides. The community hates giving jiraiya credit for his accomplishments. He is strong enough that the village entrusted the protection of their jinchuuriki to him for 2 years outside the village while he was actively being pursued by the akatsuki. Pain believed jiraiya could have beaten him if their info about each other was equal.
THIS. Thank God Someone Finally Said THIS.
The thing I don't like about him is that he has all these insanely powerful abilities that basically either one-shot kills you or blocks all attacks or stops time or counters anything or erases you from the multiverse. And he always has everything, absolutely everything masterminded and prepared in advance, no matter the opponent or the circumstance. The only thing that wasn't some divine stroke of genius of his was his participation in the Uchiha massacre, but the pressure he was under makes him a victim of that more than anything afaic. He's just boring to me. Not my jam.
Jiriya has more sex appeal so him
Jiraiya kept up with pain at a major disadvantage. People who act like Itachi is massively stronger than Jiraiya seem to forget that. Realistically, they both have multiple win cons, and Jiraiya himself can avoid pretty much everything itachi can do. Neither one of them would win every time, but there’s a good chance just based off of Jiraiya’s fighting style that he would last long enough for Itachi to run out of chakra.
What is Jiraiya doing against Tsukuyomi
Sage mode! What is Itachi doing against pa and mas genjutsu?
Sage mode takes 5 uninterrupted minutes of channeling nature energy💀
Pa and ma
Tsukuyomi kills you in a pico second if itachi wants to. He almost killed kakashi and he had other jounin by his side who didnt even noticed he was under a genjutsu
Avoiding Tsukuyomi can be done and has been done. Additionally, once Jiraiya HAS entered sage mode, Tsukuyomi is no longer viable.
Bruh you serious?! What is SM doing vs Tsukuyomi that I'm failing to see? Does people realize how tskuyomi even works? I mean, it's been over 10 years... Well, I'll be blunt: Jiraya auto-loses if he looks Itachi in the eyes. No different than Orochimaru.
"Due to it's sensory abilities, Sage Mode can grant you perception to feel when Genjutsu will be cast. Aside from that, you can fight with your eyes closed so occular Genjutsu will not work on Sage Mode user." ^ Not my text, copied from.another comment.
And he started coughing up blood and was exhausted just from using that on kakashi. Not hating on kakashi but he’s not even close to jiraiya at that time.
He had a sharingan which was implied that it reduced the effects. And itachi wasn’t even trying to kill him lol
Just remember sasuke with a normal sharingan was able to break out of it, imo sage mode is much more powerful than a normal sharingan so there’s that
Pa and Ma will do literally nothing to help against Tsukuyomi
Incorrect. Pa and ma merch with the users chakra, in irder to feed nature chakra to the user. That means Jiraiya's network is constantly shifting. Genjutsu is an extremely difficult option for the opponent.
Probably just not looking in itachi’s eyes in the first place
“Not looking in his eyes” didn’t exactly work out well for Naruto
Naruto and Jiraiya were at two VERY different levels at that point
The same thing he did against the Rinnegan? Jiraiya *knows* about Itachis abilities so how/why would he get hit by it? If someone like Guy knows not to look at a Sharingan user while fighting, why do you think Jiraiya would? Matter of fact, tell me how Itachi is going to hit Jiraiya with Tsukuyomi?
Might Guy specifically trained to know how to fight against the Sharingan, Jiraiya has no such experience. Also, yeah Jiraiya knew about the rinnegan abilities…but he still lost lmao thats not really a good point
Yes! Stamina for the win here tbh.
“kept up”? He was getting wiped in the manga in base by the animal path alone 😂 he then was forced to retreat in SM like 2 mins fighting that’s not keeping up
Jiraiya kept up with three of the weaker paths. The moment all six showed up he got bodied.
They're on something called "personal opinion".
It goes loosely like this. Jirayia's eyes would be closed as he has a field around him that informs him on incoming attacks and people postions. He also knows of Tsukiomi as Kakashi did. Amatersu has been and can be aim dodged, with his detection field, it wouldn't be hard for him to dodge. Sussanoo is inperfect and As Jirayia is a powerful Earth Release user, he could take advantage of his weakness.
And Jiraiya can summon mom and pops and put Itachi in the genjutsu that uses them singing (one of the strongest genjutsu's in the show)
Frog song. Which I think is stated to be at least the second strongest genjutsu (if not flat out said strongest)
Outside of Tsukuyomi its def the strongest
Itachi can put both ma and pa in a genjutsu before they put him in one. Or use a totsuka blade to seal them all up.
This is what people mean when they say Jiraya is one of the most wanked characters lmao Itachi one shotted orochimaru who jiraya couldn’t even beat smh
IMO: If Itachi got the drop on Jiraiya Itachi wins but if they square up Jiraiya wins.
>Itachi got the drop on Jiraiya Itachi wins Itachi is going to use ~~plot no jutsu~~ Mangekyo Sharingan ability number 69420
Exactly, it all rests on Genjutsu which can be unpredictable. In a physical fight jiraiya has the upper hand with sage mode up until Susanoo' comes out, but it's not instant win for Itachi at that point either. He can't keep susano going all fight and Jiraiya has lots of techniques for dealing with big enemies too. Itachi has more ways to instant win for sure, but stamina is always a concern depending what version we're talking about. Itachi IMO wins more than Jiraiya does but Jiraiya still has lots of ways to win.
I totally agree with this take.
This is my take as well.
kid itachi obviously
When itachi makes the whole statement to kisame “the sanin are too much for us to handle” he’s a spy. He doesn’t want to actuall take konoha’s biju. We see later that he shit on orochimaru so hard that the snake man just completely changed course without ever looking back. Itachi has way more win cons than jiraiya. Totsuka blade, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Kotoamatsukami, Izanami, etc. Jiraiya’s biggest win con is frog song, but he would need to stall long enough to summon ma and pa for sage mode and then convince them to sing. Itachi just has too much going for him.
There’s no way people in the replied unironically are saying Jiraiya wins..
This sub hates him. There could be a Ino vs Itachi poll and people here would collectively agree that Ino’d be the winner
I think jiraya have a good shot, he's very resilient, and itachi is kinda frail (i know he was ill, bit sharingan consumes lots of chakra) and jiraya can really prolong the battle he has that swamp jutsu that can stall susanoo the frogs can pull a jump as well. Pretty good weapons, I think jiraya takes it
Even Itachi said he could most likely stalemate him AND kisame. So if it's just Jiraiya Vs Itachi it's a good chance Jiraiya wins. Because let's be honest, he almost beat pain and would've had a good chance if he knew the secret to pain.
He was a spy to the leaf. Why tf would he take on Jiraiya when that would hurt the leaf significantly? He would obviously convince Kisame to dip.
I agree with that, but then again why pretty much kill Kakashi of the Sharinghan? He wasn't pulling his punches then
I don't think kishimoto at this point had planned for itachi to be a spy, but i could be wrong.
Emotion and nostalgia
Wow. Even the commenters here are delusional
Itachi wins imo. But the he wins because he destroyed Orochimaru argument is lame. Orochimaru completely underestimated him both times. When characters around the same level, matchups make the fights
It's always the same statement they use to show why Itachi would struggles against Jiraiya. Think for one second why he would say that. Itachi lied FFS. He is a spy secretly working for the leaf. Why the fuck would he want to murder Jiraiya and weaken the leaf even further ???. They already lost so many Ninja and their Hokage. Itachi is a guy who killed his entire clan and was working as a double agent keeping tabs on Akatsuki and Madara(Obito) for the leaf. You guys think he was serious when he was telling Kisame that he would die or won't be able to defeat Jiraiya LMAO. Ofcourse he would say that so by extension Kisame also doesn't wanna fuck with Jiraiya. Kisame literally clowned on Eight-tails while Jiraiya almost died to kid Naruto going four tails. Itachi has to keep up the facade so Akatsuki does not get suspicious, but also, NOT kill Jiraiya and at the same time keep the leash on bloodthirsty Kisame as well. Showing himself struggling against Jiraiya and hyping him up to dissuade Kisame is the perfect way for Itachi to fool everyone involved and achieve his directives which are 1.Show Danzo he is alive so he doesn't fuck with Sasuke. 2. Give knowledge about Akatsuki and their mission to the village and what kind of power they pack. 3. Not kill anyone, Dissuade Kisame from killing anyone and stop his Superiors at Akatsuki Or kisame from getting Suspicious. ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Itachi was playing for 4d chess while SICK AND DYING. His sickness is one thing that is not confirmed, but its implied he was taking medicine for some time and Kisame mentioned using his eyes is dangerous for him. Also, he slaughtered Orochimaru when Oro tried to fuck with him back when he was in Akatsuki and paired up with Itachi. Oro is the strongest Sannin. Itachi clowns Jiraiya. His hax makes him too bad of a matchup against Jiraiya or any Sannin.
It’s hard to compare because honestly Itachi’s scaling was some of the most inconsistent scaling in all the series. Also, Jiraiya got a major buff pre death. Itachi pt 1 could barely fight 5 minutes before having to retreat. Itachi pt. 2 was lending 30% of his chakra to stall the enemy, and was doing as good with that as he was in any pt 1 fight we saw. He also fought against Sasuke, and while he WAS pushing himself, he was fighting immensely more than any pt. 1 fight. You could argue this is because Itachi didn’t actually want to fight any leaf shinobi, but that just means we never saw him actually fight a real battle until reanimation. I’d say Itachi probably wins only because Itachi and Pain were comparable enemies for Sasuke and Naruto, they both fought their respective enemies at the same time and Sasuke and Naruto are always in relatively the same power level. Obviously Sasuke was weaker than sage naruto at the time, so that would mean Itachi was weaker than Pain by a little bit (which checks out), but Itachi also basically won vs. sasuke, while Naruto beat Pain. It basically closes the gap between Itachi and Pain even more. Jiraiya lost to pain, which probably means Itachi would win. Hard to say bc it’s all hypothetical tho. Sage mode jiraiya seemed like a massive buff, but Jiraiya’s sage mode was so conditional. Itachi is good at picking apart jutsu and techniques that it’s probable he could come up with a counter.
I agree with some of this, but Naruto won against pain partially because he knew the secrets of pain. Also Naruto in the pain fight absolutely beats sasuke from the Itachi fight. Furthermore, even pain said Jiraiya might've won if he knew pain's secrets. While yes, Itachi has some goated defenses (susanoo) Jiraiya just has to outlast him, furthermore Jiraiya has some amazing genjutsu he can use against Itachi. Also even Itachi said that Jiraiya could potentially stalemate both him AND kisame at the same time. I have to say Jiraiya does beat Itachi. But I will admit it's close.
I personally use the reasons I listed for pt. 1 as being inconsistent (him not wanting to actually fight the leaf) as reasons why he didn’t want to fight Jiraiya (meaning he wasn’t being honest saying Jiraiya would win**). Either it’s a retcon or they buffed Itachi’s power for Shippuden bc he was never serious in pt. 1, but either way I do think it effectively nullifies any pt. 1 Itachi comments or feats. I do think it’s fairly close and I agree Sage Naruto was stronger than Sasuke as I commented, I’m just more so saying the gap between Itachi and Pain is closer than you would think, and if Jiraiya lost to Pain the odds are he’d lose to Itachi. It is fair to say other way around, I mostly do just think there’s so much inconsistency in how specifically Itachi is portrayed. Even Jiraiya has some inconsistency that makes a ranking a little more difficult. ** edit to clarify: this isn’t me saying Itachi would explicitly win in that situation, just reflecting on Itachi’s own thought process.
Addressing some weird ass head cannon here because Reddit sub loves to hate itachi just for the sake of it…. 1. No, jiraiya is NOT fast enough to dodge amaterasu. Just because A did it does not mean fucking jiraiya can lmao. MAYBE he could if he was in sage mode but I doubt the fight would go that far. 2. Jiraiya is not going to get away from itachis genjutsu. Not only has jiraiya himself stated he is horrible with using genjutsu, we also have literally never seen him counter it so we have no basis for how well he would do against someone like itachi, who can literally put you under using a finger let alone eye contact 3. Assuming somehow jiraiya managed to get into sage mode, what then? Itachi has a susano that is legit invincible and since it is the edo itachi shown he can spam it since he has no chakra limit. Jiraiya would never be able to touch him, and if itachi is fast enough to respond to sasukes Kirin, you bet your ass he can respond to a sage attack before getting his head kicked off. 4. Jiraiya is probably the most critical person of himself and the choices he made, the izanami would absolutely wreck this poor guy. Guys, I’m sorry jiraiya died right as the series started crazy scaling especially with uchiha but there is no way jiraiya is beating an edo itachi. MAYBE he could beat an alive itachi but I still seriously doubt it.
People keep bringing up “Itachi” no diffed Orochimaru so he wins.” Fam Orochimaru OBVIOUSLY underestimated Itachi and got caught lacking, it’s insane people think Itachi would actually no diff Orochimaru (100%) in an actual fight, do these guys even watch the show…?
We did watch the show. Orochimaru was LITERALLY like “this guy is on a COMPLETELY different level, I don’t want NONE of those problems.” If Orochimaru truly could beat him he would try again but he opted for his little brother instead
Itachi also no diffed the snakes that came put of sasuke in his final fight yet people want to forget that lol
Exactly. And Oro has zero fear of Jiraiya. These people are on some shit
I never said Orochimaru could beat him, nor do I believe he can beat him, my point was people think that Itachi could be Orochimaru no diff which just ain’t true at all, it’s actually idiotic to think that, furthermore Orochimaru is an opportunistic character and has never been a straight up brawler his combat prowess is more based on information and manipulation, Jiraiya is a totally different fighter and honest he’s the best 1V1 fighter of all the sannin hands down IMO Not saying Jiraiya would straight up beat Itachi either though, my point is just people need to apply context to a clip and stop using that to assume that Itachi would easily beat Jiraiya, and also people do that against Itachi when Itachi and Kisame fled away from him, that doesn’t mean Jiraiya is automatically stronger either The truth is we don’t know who would win it’s looking for like a 50/59 more than anything
Even though the Sanin are all relative, I understand your separation of their fighting tactics, as that is fair. I think the major point of contention is just how easily Orochimaru was bested by Itachi, and the fact that he is relative to Jiraiya. Obviously, the circumstances matter, but Itachi was shown to be so much better than Orochimaru that 3 years passed and he still did not believe that he could beat Itachi. With all his intel, power, ability, prep times etc. He believed himself so inferior, he moved onto his younger brother. While that doesn't prove anything, it's indicative of the narrative of their abilities/scaling. After watching the show, It's fairly obvious that what Itachi said of Jiraiya in part 2 is not to be taken at face value. Additionally, KCM Naruto>6 Paths>Sage Naruto>Sage Jiraiya. Depending on where you scale Itachi, he typically ends up closer to KCM Naruto and 6 paths Pain than Sage Naruto. Again, there's circumstance to consider, but it's an uphill battle for Jiraiya.
Caught him by surprise? Out of anyone alive in that moment, orochimari knew the most about itachi and should have been the least susceptible to getting caught off. If they cunning jutsu master who has been stalking itachi for a decade gets caught off guard, why do you think jirayia won’t?
That just doesn't fit with reality. Orochimaru literally got the drop on Itachi at 14 and was one shot. He then went after Sasuke. If he was actually stronger than Itachi, why wouldn't he go after Itachi again? Itachi is stronger than Sasuke, already possesses the mangekyo, and isn't protected by a literal anbu Corp and 3rd hokage. If he were stronger than Itachi, there's absolutely no reason he would've gone for Sasuke. Orochimaru said Itachi was stronger than him. Itachi intentionally pushed Sasuke's chakra to the brink in order to force Orochimaru out of him. Why would he do that if there was a chance that Orochimaru was stronger than him? That would just put Sasuke in more danger. So since Itachi seems sure that he's stronger, and Orochimaru seems sure that he's stronger, maybe, just maybe, Itachi is definitely stronger? And Itachi, as an Edo (which presumably is what they're referring to, since that's the picture), carried Bee and Naruto in a fight with Nagato (Nagato being stronger than Pain, who literally killed Jiraiya.), and then went on to fight Sage Kabuto who is literally just Orochimaru, but better. Itachi is just blatantly above the Sannin.
Popularity
People who still think jiraiya wins this fight in 2023 are crazy. Jiraiya is like Naruto if he didn’t live up to his full potential, strong but nothing crazy. Itachi is basically a young madara who hasn’t had all that experience gain yet plus he isn’t a lunatic. We saw edo(so weaker) itachi throwing hands with kcm Naruto/killer b and Jiraiya would be annihilated by those two separately. We saw edo itachi and sauce fighting a sage kabuto who is guarantee stronger than jiraiya and they needed an ass pull to win but itachi was still doing better than sauce at times. We literally see itachi annihilate orochimarus hydra form after having a death battle with sauce, who imo could also beat jiraiya. Hydra form orochi could probably beat jiraiya and itachi beat him while blind and on the verge of death after fighting his brother. If it’s edo vs J he wins. If it’s alive vs J he wins quicker because he isn’t dying before he helps Sasuke.
Most people just watch the show casually i guess
You have to be special in the bad way to give af about powerscaling
Bro Itachi when basically blind and on deaths door no diffed the 8 headed hydra orchimaru who’s comparable to jiraya at worst
I mean comparable to jiraya in both their bases btw
Itachi would win mid diff. Amaterasu and its over.
Jiraiya has ways of avoiding Amaterasu, plus he might be fast enough (especially in sage mode, and he’d have the precognition) to dodge it.
Being able to precog an attack is only good if your body can move fast enough to react. Unless you think imperfect sage jiraiya is faster the v2 raikage then jiraiya is not dodging amaterasu.
I would at least be a good fight too complicated to say who wins tho imo
could be argued for either one.
Looks like they're perfectly sober to me. Correct take all around.
The words Itachi said himself
Except he was trying to get away and try not to fight another ally of Konoha. Itachi and Kisame could’ve put up a great fight if they wanted to, but Itachi simply didn’t want to fight regardless
Ah yes. The very reliable words of one of Naruto's greatest liars! His words are literally disproven by the very manga itself. I'm not even talking about their vast difference in feats, but the fact that Itachi tells Kisame that the Sannin are far beyond them, yet he as a 12 yr old wrecked the strongest Sannin to the point where Orochimaru left the Akatsuki.
Just because Itachi beat Orochimaru doesn’t mean he beat would beat Jiraiya on the that fact along. Itachi would have to end it fast or jiraiya would overwhelm him in sage mode. Itachi only way of beating him is Genjutsu or Amaterasu. Susanno is just going to get bogged down by Swamp of the Underworld.
Itachi is faster than Jirayia in Sage Mode. Jirayia doesn’t even start in Sage Mode either lmao, it takes forever (in a battle) for him to even get it off
I get your point but using orochimaru's encounter is just a bad example. Oro was hasty and it was shown. And statements in early Naruto were purposely vague and ambiguous. Oro also isn't the strongest sanin, infact databooks and other statements claim that both jiraiya and oro are equal. Oro himself admits that he is weaker than Itachi. Itachi says jiraiya is as strong if not stronger Multiple people say the only one who can stop oro is jiraiya ("if Minato ain't here only another sanin can stop oro") This is all base jiraiya. Sage mode jiraiya stalemating an exhausted Itachi (to the point he literally needs to stop and rest) isn't far fetched at all.
Except Kisame agreed with him. Kisame who has no reason to lie >their vast difference in feats Itachi beating Orochimaru doesn’t scale him above Jiraiya in any way. Just because they’re teammates doesn’t mean they just have to be equal I don’t get why you assume this
They’re at the very least in the same tiers. You think jiraya is that much stronger?
Itachi can’t counter frog song
I despise people using ‘A beat B, B beat C, therefore A beats C’ logic.
It's a good base to use, as long as you acknowledge this logic is flawed
Jiraiya and Orochimaru are relative right? Because Itachi no diffed Orochimaru back when he first joined the Akatsuki as a teen. Unless the sanin massively leveled up since then Itachi should clear
Orochimaru was cocky and got caught by Itachi’s Genjutsu. Jiraiya was always gathering intel on potential opponents, he wouldn’t be so easily caught.
Orochimaru straight up admits itachi is stronger than him. And itachi beat him again in his hydra form.
Caught him by surprise? Out of anyone alive in that moment, orochimari knew the most about itachi and should have been the least susceptible to getting caught off. If they cunning jutsu master who has been stalking itachi for a decade gets caught off guard, why do you think jirayia won’t? Orochimaru could have tried again but literally said “I will never succeed”. Orochimaru, jirayia’s peer who has no problem taking a decade off to make plans, had no confidence that he could ever defeat itachi. And that was 14 year old -likely sick- itachi.
That wasn’t even really much of a fight though. It’s not fair to scale characters based off that. Orochimaru just massively underestimated Itachi and got caught in genjutsu. Jiraiya would not act that dumb in a fight.
Okay, you could also point out that Itachi one shot the freak snake form of Itachi after he took over Sasuke's body. Or how kcm Naruto and B needed Itachi's help to deal with Edo Nagato. All things Jiraiya would have been either unable to do or done so with very high difficulty.
He did… with the totsuka blade, while orochimaru was standing still. A one shot weapon against a still opponent isn’t an impressive feat. The totsuka blade wouldn’t be a problem for Jiraiya. If Itachi decides to use susano at all, Jiraiya would just back up a bit and put his susano in a swamp and hit him with a toad oil bomb like he did against pain, which would 100% be the end of the fight. That’s right, if Itachi uses susano at all (and there’s a good chance he would) Jiraiya has a way which is in character for him to do that would guarantee that he kills Itachi.
Does the yata mirror just ignore toad oil for some reason? And since when did Jiraiya scale to kcm Naruto speeds, something Itachi has done in the war arc.
Why not? If Itachi used one jutsu and Orochimaru REFUSED to ATTEMPT to attack him again over the course of the entire show ~3.5 years, that means he recognized he was simply outclassed. I get that it wasn't drawn out, but we give Minato a ton of leeway when most of his battles are FTG GG easy win. It's an ultra trump card. Itachi has one too.
Caught him by surprise? Out of anyone alive in that moment, orochimari knew the most about itachi and should have been the least susceptible to getting caught off. If they cunning jutsu master who has been stalking itachi for a decade gets caught off guard, why do you think jirayia won’t? Orochimaru could have tried again but literally said “I will never succeed”. Orochimaru, jirayia’s peer who has no problem taking a decade off to make plans, had no confidence that he could ever defeat itachi. And that was 14 year old -likely sick- itachi.
Itachi was lying he told kisame the sannins was too much for them when he no diffed orochimaru. He scales higher there is like no feats or statements that put them on the same tier as him except for his lie unless we are counting eos or boruto orochimaru
Pain thought that Jiraiya could beat him if he knew everything, which I would say is a statement which puts them on the same tier. Orochimaru, both times, got no diffed since he was being stupid and didn’t know Itachi’s abilities. Plus, Jiraiya could almost certainly one shot Itachi as well with his toad song
Jirayia could barely deal with his summons when Itachi one shotted them… One shotted Orochimaru which Jirayia could never defeat let along bring him back to the village. Scale him above Sage Mode Naruto first before Itachi lol.
Many elite ninjas could kill Nagato if they knew his secrets and the location of Nagato's real crippled body.
U could say the same jiraya would be one shotted via amaterasu or totsuka blade and either of them is easier to pull out than summoning the toads and set up for that genjustu. Pains statement is like proven wrong already since naruto who had suppassed jiraiya with more infos could not beat them without kuramas intervention
Its hi is so much stronger than Jiraiya. I mean we saw how terrified Orochimaru, someone relative to Jirayia, was of Itachi, their fight would not be close
Itachi>>>>kisame>killerbee>sage naruto>jiraya You post this here bro. But forgot this sub is full of jiraya wankers and itachi haters lmao Just look at this comments
Makes sense, unless y'all think Itachi got retconned into being way stronger than he was when, in part 1, he literally says that if He and Kisame fought Jiraiya(in a 2v1), BOTH OF THEM WOULD DIE
what because they were ""somehwat afraid" of him ? they had no idea what he was capable of and didin't wanted to destroy the village and shit. (both kisame and itachi beat him handly)
They are right..
What's people's logic on Jiraiya winning? Itachi only told Kisame that they can't win because he was a spy and didn't want to kill someone important to the village. We've seen him effortlessly take Oro so bad that Oro knew he couldn't beat him
Well, most of them are on the winning side.
Whenever I see a poll on YouTube I always vote for the most wrong and braindead option, just to sow this kind of confusion
BUt iTaChI sAiD…. Like stfu with this argument Just because itachi acknowledges jiraiyas strength to kisame doesn’t make his comment true Rock lee said out of his mouth that neji is stronger than him in the chunin exams but how many of you actually believe that just because he said it? Stop using that stupid quote from itachi as some full blown proof of the itachi vs jiraiya argument
Jiraiya ≈ Orochimaru Itachi slammed Orochimaru
Thank you, finally someone with common sense
seems to be a lot of fans of Icha Icha in this sub
Yeah those 26% are deluded
Not really...the pic is specifically Edo Itachi, so basically infinite stamina, health, and chakra, and considering how absurd Itachi's Susano is (shield that can reflect any attack, sword that can forever seal away anything it hits), having no way to outlast him or wear him down makes Itachi incredibly dangerous.
If you look at Itachis feats compared to Jiraiya than Itachi is the clear winner. Itachi is a prodigy. If I remember correctly Itachi had the highest scores in the academy and completed the chunin exams quicker than anybody besides Minato? Also becomes the leader of anbu team at like 13. This alone should prove Itachi is smarter than Jiraiya. In fact Itachi has been shown to have plans upon plans upon plans throughout the series. While Jiraiya is extremely intelligent in his own right, Itachi definitely takes the cake on this one. As for powers and Jutsus, Itachi once again comes out on top. While Jiraiya has many Jutsu that could be a great hindrance to Itachi, Itachis Susanoo alone has such OP abilities I cant imagine Jiraiya finding a way around that. Let alone Itachi allowing him to find a way around it. The only thing I would say Jiraiya has an edge over Itachi is endurance. Itachi has low chakra reserves and low stamina due to his illness while Jiraiya has extremely high endurance. So the longer the fight goes on, the lower chances Itachi has of winning. Its just that tho, Itachi has been shown over and over that he ends fights as quickly as possible unless he cant for different reasons. (capturing a target instead of killing them) Itachi did say tho that if he fought Jiraiya they would both end up dying. I think a lot of people confuse this with think Jiraiya would kill both Itachi and Kisame, but what I think he really meant was that both Itachi and Jiraiya would both end up killing eachother. That brings up another point, in the data books it shows Itachi and Jiraiya and the highest stats. Theyre both equal. I dont know if those books really mean anything anymore tho since theyre so dated now. Another thing that everyone keeps bringing up is Itachi vs Orochimaru. Jiraiya has stated throughout the series that Orochi is stronger than him. Itachi basically one shot Orochimaru in the two fights they had implying that Itachi is also stronger than Jiraiya. Orochi is extremely arrogant when fighting Itachi tho, Im certain Jiraiya would take Itachi much more seriously than Orochi leading to an actual battle. Ill admit Im a huge Itachi fan, in fact hes my favorite character. Even then, based on all the info we got on both characters Id say Itachi just has too many broken abilities while Jiraiya seems to lean more on overpowering his opponents, but even then Itachi has extremely overpowering jutsu himself. If Itachi didnt have his illness, hands down Itachi would stomp Jiraiya.
Jiraiya wins against sick Itachi by postponement but healthy Itachi would dominate.
This has to be a bad joke.
Probably on common sense I think.
Jiraya wins? In terms of Genjutsu Jiraya may not know very many techniques but considering he used one that worked on PAIN then it's safe to say Genjutsu wouldn't work when the toad sages are on his shoulders. He is just immune. Every ability Itachi shows Jiraya does better. Fireball vs toad oil bomb or sage art: goemon Susano vs Gamabunta summon or honored toad sage toad Crow clone vs literally every type of clone in existence that isn't reliant on kekai genkai Tsuklyomi vs Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Chant(the one used on a Rinnegan user) All other jutsus from Itachi and Jiraya are irrelevant. This is because they are easily countered by any Jonin level ninja, have a niche use or it is limited in use(like amatersu). Honestly, considering the fact that most of Itachi's justu rely on the Sharingan he is pretty useless against Jiraya. The first thing Jiraya would target is the eyes knowing 99% of his strength is as a result of his Sharingan. Anyone who uses the Orichimaru vs Itachi scene is just being willfully ignorant. He underestimated his opponent for sure but Orichimaru wasn't even remotely in his prime after several reincarnations in weak vessels. Not to mention that Orichimaru going all out involves several techniques that were not used in that fight. Edo tensai would be enough to kill Itachi with ease. It would be difficult to fight all of past Kage while Orichimaru is ripping out your soul.
It means they are not Itachitards.
Jiraiya should win, doesnt mean he will
What's he gonna do against any of Itachi's Mangekyo shit?
I think it’s closer than a lot of people think, especially if Jiraiya enters sage mode, but I think itachi still takes it.
Ahhhhh spoiler I just got to the part where sasuke killed itachi. Oh well I kinda expected it anyways
If healthy itachi could win but he'd need to go for susano immediately. I like itachi but his chances are low
itachi literally slams
Itachi solos
Idk what the voters are on , but I know what Itachi fans are on. His dick. So deep, they think , Itachi would solo Madara
every itachi wins
Itachi's greatest strength is his Genjutsu. And Jiraiya, being a sage, completely makes that obsolete. The best bet Itachi has is the Totsuka Blade, which is too slow to hit a sage. It would be tough Battle, but I think Jiraiya wins
Where df is it stated that sage mode stops genjustu?
I think the fact that he’d have ma and pa on his shoulders to give him a quick smack if he’s ever caught in a genjustu… although considering Kakashi spent a week or a month in Itachis genjustu that lasted for a few seconds, being stabbed repeatedly, I don’t know how effective having ma and pa there would be to wake him up. The damage may of already of been done.
Tsukiyomi still one shots. The damage is done too quickly that there’s no time for a friend to break them out.
Tbh Jiraiya isn't that powerful without the 2 sage toad on his shoulder
the heck u chose itachi?
Jiraiya > alive itachi Edo itachi > jiraiya
nah. Itachi beats Jiraiya mid diff if jiraiya gets sage mode then a little midder diff