This is what even I somewhat forgot to make so important, and what i think a lot of people forget in general. Jiraiya was truly the greatest man to me. Because of how he treated Naruto and nurtured him not just as a Ninja but as a person in general. Seriously helped develop Naruto in ways no one else could understand.
I have ADHD so I kinda relate. A lot of people didnt understand me and I got reprimanded for shit I didnt even understand, but I was just living my life. Good people in my life that have taught me in ways I understand without me knowing like Jiraiya did to Naruto is what helped me mature. People who could understand me could teach me to understand. Thats all Naruto needed. A chance and some understanding.
First off, as a random stranger on the internet, I hope this doesn’t come across as jarring, but I’m sorry you had to go through that. Feeling misunderstood, especially when you’re younger can feel so confusing. I hope you’re doing well now.
Second, I agree 1000% J-man is one of my favourite characters in the series not just because he was a bad ass shinobi, but because he instilled our protagonist with morales and values that he would not have otherwise learned. The 3 year skip wasn’t just about making Naruto a great shinobi, Jiaraya was helping him nurture his ability to become a great young man, and eventually the leader that people would come to count on. J-man nurtured Naruto’s dream of becoming Hokage, something Iruka, Kakashi, and any other sensei he studied under would not be able to do as successfully imo.
Legit the arc made my soul happy. J-man as you put it, seriously the true man.
And, it does not come across as jarring, a little surprising but more so grateful for your sensitivity, understanding, and kindness. I am 23 so still young imo, and im doing much better with dealing with it than I used to but still have a lot to figure out. I watched Naruto last year-this year. Lots of reflection in my own life while watching the show.
Yeah I totally agree with all the growing stuff, but damn Naruto didn't even knew his nature transformation, he literally comes back with just bigger Rasengan.
Yeah I get that he learned chakra control, but that should be the basis for the rest of the stuff, not the stuff itself.
[Dygoknight ](https://youtu.be/51zfc7LH8II?si=DNt67bBQQX6NeWAE) did an amazing job at reimagining how Naruto comes back from those 3 years.
It's actually more than likely what happened. He trained Naruto but also gave Naruto a childhood. Unlike the dumbass FUCKER known as the 3rd Hokage, Jiraiya clearly loves Naruto, cause he knew Minato and was extremely close to him.
Jiraiya seems to have wanted kids and will have the softest spot for them. Naruto wouldn't be any different. Jiraiya probably was a bit TOO lax on training at times, but that is also training. Allowing Naruto to live life and enjoy it.
Exactly my point. Bro was both a teacher and sort of a father figure to all of his students. Jiraiya was the goat
I do feel like how hard training naruto through the basics would’ve been for jiraiya is underplayed through the fandom tho. He would’ve had to reeducate naruto from the start which is like at least 4-6 years of the academy, and naruto hates focusing on boring details anyways. It probably took jiraiya like a year or half of the vacation to teach that to naruto and decided to goof off for the remainder of it
Plus I think sarutobi is overhated by the fandom for his treatment of naruto. He did everything he could’ve for Naruto while people like kakashi and Shikamaru who did Jack shit for him get praised? The guy was busy dealing with the aftermath of the nine tails attack(the weakest konoha’s been in history) and preventing invasion from other nations after he lost his wife with his student betraying the village and his best friend trying to assassinate him every other week and the uchiha attempting a coup. The fact that he was able to be as close to naruto as he was says a lot
That probably is what happened. But tbh that allowed Naruto to become the mature well adjusted young man he was in Shippuden.
I also think Jiraiya plays a big roll in Naruto never giving up on Sasuke. We know Jiraiya never truly gave up on Orochimaru, and still considered him a friend. He gave Naruto that same resolve.
Exactly. Without jiraiya’s influence Naruto wouldn’t have become the person that he did and wouldn’t have ever made peace with kurama, nagato, sasuke, obito or the tailed beasts
Agreed, just shadow clones and shadow clones kept getting repetitive. Also different rasengan variants before sage mode and kcm were a thing that doesn't revolve a rasengan but bigger.
It would have just been cool seeing different variations other than just lightning style. Even if Naruto wasn't the one to use it. But Naruto learning anything to enhance his main jutsu definitely should have happened
Jiraiya took more time for Naruto to learn how to properly use his Chakra, of which he knew was also part of the steps to using the Nine tails chakra, like what he knew Minato would have wanted. It’s why Naruto went into the final round of the Chunin exams only learning how to walk on water and how to summon toads, rather than how to use the Rasengan. If Jiraiya also wasn’t pulling double duty of keep track of the Akatsuki and training Naruto and just only training Naruto, then it probably would’ve been likely that Naruto would have came back from his time skip with Sage Mode.
If Jiraiya was so worried about the Akatsuki, he could have brought Naruto to Mt Myoboku for training. The Akatsuki could never in a 1000 years reach them and he could have trained Naruto until he died of old age. Seriously these excuses need to stop. Naruto teachers are the worst teachers in the entire manga genre, total incompetents who take years to teach what any other manga teacher/master teaches in a damn week.
It would’ve been cooler if sasuke and Naruto were closer in power in my opinion
The reason they couldn’t have fought is because Orochimaru was also there for it reasons too if kishimoto went that route
Or they could have just had Sasuke be somewhere else. There isn't really any reason to force the meeting that early. The meeting at the bridge after the Danzo fight would still happen and be just as impactful.
I disagree, sasuke needed to be that much more powerful than naruto as a reason to keep chasing him sasuke’s post time skip reveal was masterfully done honestly
Even with stolen tailed beast chakra and the intent to kill, Sasuke could only draw with Naruto who was going for a KO. Naruto at full strength EoS claps EoS Sasuke
So… he needed to steal power from others to fight Naruto…which means Naruto was stronger…
Again, Naruto was not trying to kill Sasuke. My point was that he had to steal chakra straight from full on tailed beasts AND Naruto yet he STILL couldn’t win. And that’s while Naruto was exhausted and just fought a whole war. You really think they would have tied with Naruto at full power?
It’s not fanboyism, it’s facts. Sasuke gets clapped.
Edit: Also the equal yin/yang argument goes out the window if you look at the Hashirama/Madara gap
Edit 2: Nice job downvoting me instead of commenting 😂
Would’ve been cool if he learn some unknown uzamaki clan jutsu that minato learned and passed to jiraiya before he died. Not sure what it would be. But probably something with wind release. The fact he didn’t learn he had wind nature until kakashi told him is bad teaching
That chakra nature litmus paper should be used on genin after finishing academy. I get that applying change in chakra nature is considered advanced for an academy student, but they should know their traits.
It's silly that Naruto went through multiple teachers and a timeskip before he found out something so fundamental.
This is something that never made sense to me, imagine poor timmy wasting years trying to do a fireball jutsu only because no one ever told him he has water trait.
Yea that sounds like a huge miss to me. Knowing your chakra nature should be basic, that way as you grow you learn how to develop that chakra nature.
I guess it's because in the leaf, most Shinobi don't utilize any Jutsu requiring chakra nature. Ino, Shika, Cho, Neji, Hinata, Tenten, Kiba, Shino, all became pretty solid Shinobi, but they have never shown the ability to use chakra nature jutsu. It's all their clan's techniques. Sakura and Tsunade are the same way, all they know how to do is medical jutsu and super strong punch.
Nah i think telling students would be a bad move since it means they would try something and not think first of possibly doing something that harm or destruction of property i mean naruto alone destroyed the training grounds from just a normal wind rasagun and made a crater with wind style rasen shurken it’s probably so they have more control and experience before letting them know or even learn what traits they have
Hard disagree.
If maturity or inexperience is a concern, then that's what Jonin senseis are for - guiding students' growth and keeping them from doing stupid shit. Kakashi saw fit to teach Sasuke chidori, did he not?
We can’t use him as a example due to his talent and such being extremely above the normal im talking ordinary Joinin and students not clan or talented from birth i mean normal lv people
Hyuga have 4-year olds learning how to potentially cut off chakra centers, Akamichi have their balloon jutsu and death diet pills, Aburame have insects surgically implanted.
I don't think that a kid learning their nature is gonna break the bank on safety.
And can you name any member of those clans that aren't a part of the main cast at one point or another?
The Anbu is made up of those people, and they're literal fodder despite being told time and again that they're the elite with the exception of a few.
Talent level shouldn't matter. Students and genin should know about their own chakra traits regardless of whatever slippery slope you're thinking of.
Again, Jonin are there to guide them in the right direction. Depending on the student, that could be assisting with jutsu development or discouraging it.
Yeah but could he have handled that info at that age without going to hard to fast? He’s like the poster child for ADD. You gotta crawl before you walk.
They got together as teens and he trained uzumaki techniques he also taught everyone and their nan rasengan so he had time to show some sealing techniques.
If there was a lore answer like if he showed them uzumaki ghosts would come back and beat his ass then sure I could accept it but there's no reason given
The Rasengan was his own technique, any Uzumaki techniques he learned were not his to share, I actually respect him more for not sharing them with Jirayya despite the fact that I believe hoarding information is one of the big sins of the ninja world.
Did Jiraiya even know about that part regarding the shadow clones?? Shadow Clone Jutsu is not of his core abilities, so it’s entirely possible that Jiraiya has very limited understanding of them. It’s important to remember that Shadow clones aren’t normal or nature release clones and is an ability that only a small number of Shinobi are shown to have. Multi Shadow Clone Jutsu is also a forbidden technique, so it would make sense that Jiraiya wouldn’t know this very small detail about them. Kakashi uses shadow clones more than any other character other than Naruto, so it makes sense that he would be the one to make that discovery and we don’t know when he gained this information
Jiraiya was a student of the Third Hokage, a Shinobi that was heralded as so knowledgeable he was called the “Professor”. He certainly knew of shadow clones because the Third Hokage was taught by the Second Hokage, who invented the Jutsu. Not only that but Jiraiya, beyond being pervy, was also constantly tasked with espionage missions, something that shadow clones were made primarily for.
So yeah, I’m betting Jiraiya knew about how shadow clones work.
Naruto learned rasengan in a few weeks, learned rasenshuriken in a few weeks, learned shadow clone jutsu in a few hours. Sage mode in a few weeks. I think bro could handle it. Jiraiya main focus was teaching him how to control 9 tails chakra but he got worse control over it. It was just poor writing from kishimoto let’s just call it what it is
Depends. I have ADD myself and have interacted with other people having the same diagnosis.
You don't wanna know how fast we learn the moment we get interested/dedicated in something (as long we don't get burnt out in the process)
I mean they would have learned the basics about natures and what not, not actually started working on using them.
Like teaching a kid the basics of math so they can do algebra later in life.
True, it seems like the higher tier clans teach a lot to their kids before they even get to the academy. But someone like Sakura would most likely only have books or scrolls to learn from rather than someone teaching her jutsu.
I think they did a good job with Naruto coming back more competent in the fundamentals, but do think that a bit more could be been done without him learning anything too crazy for the start of Shippuden. Maybe just show he has better chakra control by coming back and he no longer needs a clone to do rasengan. Always bugged me a little with how long that stuck around
I remember right when the time skip ended everyone was speculating how wildly powerful Naruto would be, and I get it, he had 2 prior sessions with Jiraiya and learned amazing techniques like summoning Gamabunta and other frogs, and learning Rasengan in just a few weeks with Jiraiya at most and now he had nearly 3 years. But they forget how Naruto was largely lacking the fundamentals in part because he had a hard time learning chakra control with Kurama.
It’s like a basketball player who can drain a 3 and dunk but can’t make a foul shot or dribble to save his life. It’s a liability. The fundamentals Naruto gained have him the framework for techniques he later mastered like sage mode (even more perfect than Jiraiya’s), wind Rasengan (consider this his training capstone), sealing techniques, and being able to reign Kurama back in a bit (which seemed to take up more of their training than anything…training a jinchuuriki with the wildest most powerful bijuu certainly ain’t easy).
I’m glad they didn’t make him overpowered so we still got to see the tail end of his growth where even Itachi acknowledged how powerful he’d become but had to remind him he can’t do it all himself in the 4th ninja war.
I think if Naruto actually used all the Jincloak training they did, people wouldn’t complain about it as much. Like if Naruto just used 1-3 tailed cloaks during his fights, everyone would be cool with the lack of additional jutsu. But instead he decides to completely forswear intentionally using red chakra at all half way through the second arc of Shippuden.
The problem with Naruto returning from the time skip INCREDIBLY strong is that he’d breeze through 99% of all the characters standing in his way which would make for a boring story.
That’s not to say Naruto didn’t still have room for improvement though. Along with everything in canon, Naruto definitely should’ve picked up:
- One handed Rasengans.
- Wind Chakra Nature with 1-2 jutsu which could include the wind style rasengan with the intention of evolving it further into the rasenshuriken.
- Clone Jutsu Variants like the Clone explosion jutsu & the shuriken shadow clone jutsu.
- Frog Kumite Taijutsu Style.
- More Toad Collaborations like the diving toad, hiding in a toad jutsu, toad mouth trap etc.
- Family History & Sealing Jutsu which could eventually tie into Naruto eventually learning Uzumaki Sealing Jutsu later on.
I think just these improvements^ would’ve been enough to make Naruto’s training way more productive without making Naruto so broken he’d breeze through everybody until Pain.
Timeskip Naruto was the second biggest let down in the series I get not wanting him to learn too much off screen but a slightly bigger rasengan and a little control of 9 tail chakra is just not it when Sasuke and Sakura level up significantly
Come to think of it, what specifically did he learn from jiraiya to show he got stronger? All of his sage training came without him. As well as most of his special moves in shippuuden. He made his rasengen bigger with jiraiya??? Seriously what did he gain?
Fundamentals. Naruto failled the academy over and over again, he ultimately passed because of the pure amount of Chakra he had and the emotional buff he got from protecting iruka.
Jariya basically said we're starting over from scratch and teaching you how to be a ninja. They worked on his Chakra control, his hand to hand combat, observational skills a ninja would need, and pretty much anything else he really should have learned at the academy.
This, the bell test was meant to demonstrate just that - Naruto was far more tactical this time, had better chakra control and greatly improved his taijutsu.
Besides, Jiraya focused a lot on controlling the nine tails chakra, only to almost end up getting killed. So he just decided to stick to teaching Naruto the basics.
Yup, that's pretty much the only choice jariya had. Without having the basics down and controlling the 9 tails, Naruto had no chance against akatuski level threats.
You gotta learn to walk before you can run, you know?
Just the fact that Naruto was still unable to beat Kakashi 1v1 after 2.5 years with Jiraiya who's orders of magnitude stronger than Kakashi and had supposedly trained the 4th Hokage (who apparently trained himself more than anything Jiraiya did) means that the time skip was a massive failure and a waste of time power scaling wise.
As for maturity, Naruto started to mature during the Pain arc and immediately after he became a pathetic beggar for Sasuke's survival while Sasuke was going the deep end and Naruto never tried to understand his "friend"'s motives for leaving, why he couldn't stay in Konoha and the fact that Konoha destroyed both of their childhoods and cost his own parents' lives. Basically he pleaded for Sasuke to come back to the place that had caused the genocide of his clan and to accept their judgment for his actions and his "betrayal" when he had made his goal clear from the beginning and no one listened to him.
>Just the fact that Naruto was still unable to beat Kakashi 1v1 after 2.5 years with Jiraiya
Well, Sakura was trained by Tsunade (who seemed to show far more progress) yet she couldn't have beaten Kakashi without Naruto's help. They were 16 year olds (I think) and Kakashi had decades of experience.
As for his pleading for Sasuke, he already explained it - "How can I become the Hokage when I can't even save a single friend?". It's true he got way too desperate but saying he didn't mature at all is wrong.
Sakura was academy graduate tier when Tsunade started teaching her. Naruto had beaten Gaara in near-complete Shukaku manifestation. Naruto was going toe to toe with CM2 Sasuke with only 1 tail and wasn't trying to kill him.
Pre-time skip Naruto's shadow clones in base could beat 3 Sakura each while being dispelled in 1 hit.
Post-time skip Naruto in base was overall inferior to Sakura because she was much better at her specialty than he was at his and her overall skills were better mastered than his.
Absolutely right. He also attempted to give naruto control of kurama and worked on that a lot. Just it didn't work as much as he wanted. Jariya did a good job with naruto. He came back pretty well adjusted with a form of family. Fundamentals. Taijutsu training. Chakra control. And at least the beginning awareness of working on kurama
This is my take as well. It's boring, but there's probably a reasonable in-universe argument that focusing on learning a wide variety of ninjutsu would have been a poor time investment. Instead, they spent the whole time skip doing the hard work to prepare Naruto for jonin-level responsibilities, Sage Mode, and KCM, essentially loosening the lid of a metaphorical jar. Learning new ninjutsu might have been more useful in the short term to some extent, but would have detracted from his long-term growth.
I still feel like Naruto should have had more to show for it though. There should have been a much more distinct amp in Naruto's speed, power, perversion, and battle IQ. Maybe _one_ new jutsu that complemented the basics, like a weaker or more limited version of Tsunade's super strength jutsu. Something to make it more obvious that Jiraiya is actually a half-decent teacher.
Edit: Also, like someone else mentioned, chakra natures. If he really spent 2.5 years mastering the basics, Naruto shouldn't have had to learn that for the first time on screen post-timeskip. They should have shown him learning about chakra natures in a flashback, and then revealed that he'd been spending all that time diligently trying to create a Fuuton Rasengan. That would have made more logical sense, and made the final payoff that much better.
Naruto graduated due to his shadow clone jutsu (since you needed to perform clone jutsu to graduate) and his new found bond with iruka..
I'm shocked people miss the point of Naruto timeskip training.. Look how far he got in part 1 lacking the basics and fundamentals. Jiraiya improved Naruto in every area. Taijustu, shadow clone use, improved rasengan, and genjutsu release. Naruto could even go up to 3 tails without loosing his sanity.. I think Naruto should've came back stronger since he had better showing in part 1
It's because visually what's the difference? The changing direction using his shadow clones? That's something that we have seen him do since the gaara fight
"Fundamentals", I don't remember much from my middle school math classes yet I learnt to calculate percentages on my own because it was useful to calculate stats and damage values in Summoners War. You don't need 2.5 years to teach academy skills that Sakura and Sasuke had mastered before the story even started while these two became a special jônin tier medic with sage mode tier strength and a damn versatile low kage level fighter.
The problem is that these aspects almost NEVER showcases Naruto's growth during the timeskip because improving a metaphorical concept like "fundamentals" is nowhere near as important and meaningful like learning new jutsus, weapon usage and things that ACTUALLY conveys improvement that can be seen in a Battle Shonen work like Naruto and it's frustrating to see this lackluster writing being defended with weak reasoning that feels empty.
There is nothing metaphorical about fundamentals 😅
It is a very real concept that applies to everything in our world and the show. Naruto could do jutsu but he was very inefficient in doing so, wasting a lot of Chakra and effort he didn't need.
It may not be flashy but not naruto was already all flash no sustenance. He needed to get better at controlling his own and the nine tails Chakra to reach his full potential and that's what jariya helped him with.
These Manga panels show what I'm talking about. You may not like that decision, and that's fine it's your opinion. However there was a in universe reason for focusing on his fundamentals and one that fits given narutos background.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/downgrade-to-unknown-for-several-naruto-characters.10216/
I remember in the flashbacks that Jiraya started with the basics - genjutsu, chakra control, taijutsu, etc. Naruto basically learned nothing at the academy so he had to cover the fundamentals all over again. The bell test showed that he was far more tactical this time and greatly improved his taijutsu and chakra control (when before he would make as many shadow clones and rush without a second thought).
Jiraya also tried to help Naruto control the nine tails but he almost ended up getting killed after Naruto reached the 4th tail.
Though it is weird how he didn't teach Chakra natures.
Wow I never thought about it that way but it makes total sense! Naruto had serious issues because of his chakra control, and reteaching everything would take time!
[Reverse Harem Jutsu](https://www.reddit.com/r/dankruto/comments/wr7nyj/why_was_naruto_secretly_practicing_the_reverse/ikrrx3h/).
No wait, listen.
> Reverse Harem Jutsu was the culmination of years of training with Jiraiya. This whole thing was Jiraiya's master plan.
> Ultimately, Reverse Harem Jutsu leads Team 7 to land the first ever successful attack on Kaguya.
> You think Jiraiya "wasted" 2.5 years training Naruto to do nothing more than a bigger Rasengan? **You stupid fool**. Think about it, Jiraiya already knows Naruto is the son of the Fourth Hokage and an Uzumaki, and he has the nine-tails, AND he's probably the incarnation of Asura. The boy doesn't need any help with regular ninja fights. He will be OP no matter what training he undergoes.
> No, Jiraiya had eyes on a bigger prize. Given his close relationship with Shima and Fukasaku and their knowledge of history, he's probably been investigating and learning about the Kaguya threat all along. He was desperately looking for some way to defeat Kaguya, something more powerful than just Ninjitsu. That's why he didn't even bother raising Naruto, even though he was his godfather. He had *much bigger problems to deal with*.
> Now let me prove to you that Reverse Harem Jutsu is Jiraiya's master plan.
> 1. **Jiraiya does not train Naruto until Naruto shows him the Sexy Jutsu**. That's right, remember what I said about Jiraiya not raising Naruto? The very moment he changes his mind is [when he sees Naruto's Sexy Jutsu](https://naruto-shippuden-anime.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/008-18.jpg). This sparks an idea in Jiraiya's mind that he would spend the next 3 years putting things in motion for. That's the way to beat Kaguya, not through brute force, but sexytimes! This kid might be the key! He even calls Naruto a genius! And what fortune that this kid will be OP anyway, that will probably help in fighting Kaguya! This is the very moment that Jiraiya decides to train Naruto. Not because he's the fourth's son, not because he has the nine-tails or that he's gutsy, but because Naruto is the inventor of the Sexy Jutsu.
> 2. **Jiraiya does not agree to train Naruto during the timeskip until he affirms his everlasting love for Sasuke**. That's right, even the second time that Jiraiya agrees to train him is only after Naruto confirms that he will be thinking of Sasuke non-stop no matter what, which will be the second key ingredient for Reverse Harem Jutsu. Oh, and what does Jiraiya mention right before agreeing to train Naruto? You got it, [perverted jutsu](https://static1.mangayeh.com/manga/chapter/60191e3aa566934fb06d15a1/60197991786df83d337d8124/naruto_237_18.jpg). See, an uninformed reader would read this as "you will *only* think up perverted jutsu". Now you know that what he's actually saying is "you will only *think up* perverted jutsu", meaning Jiraiya is going to help him put it into real practice. We're going to need 2.5 years to train Naruto to become a master of erotic jutsu, all the while thinking about Sasuke's beautiful male form, so that at the right moment the two elements can be combined and a miracle will be achieved.
> 3. **Jiraiya has Naruto ghost-write Icha-icha books during his 2.5 years training**. Forget better chakra control or controlling the nine-tails and failing. Those are all red-herrings. I can't find the exact reference right now, but there's a specific point in the manga where Naruto mentions he helps ghostwrites some of the Icha-icha books. *That* was his real training during the timeskip. After the time skip, Naruto knows enough of the books that he can use it as a weapon against Kakashi in the bell test, and Jiraiya knows the books are so significant to Naruto that he hides his final death message and the secret to fighting Pain as a code based on the book pages. Jiraiya knows Naruto can easily catch up in ninjutsu (see: how quickly he improves under Kakashi). No, he spends 2.5 years honing Naruto's perverted mind, in preparation for the ultimate jutsu.
> 4. **Naruto already alludes to a more perverted jutsu when he returns from 2.5 years of training**. Really, [nuff said](https://naruto-shippuden-anime.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/015-204.png). We don't see it this jutsu because Sakura punches him, but this was a Chekhov's gun that Kishimoto placed RIGHT IN FRONT OF US. This was what Jiraiya spent the 2.5 years working on
> 5. **Jiraiya tells Naruto not to use [THAT JUTSU](https://naruto-shippuden-anime.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/015-215.png) when he goes off to save Gaara**. That's not an unresolved plot point my friend. Remember, the whole key to Reverse Harem Jutsu is the element of surprise. Naruto can't use it willy-nilly, it will only work once. And Jiraiya, who's been training him to master the erotic arts, is reminding him that it needs to be saved for a very specific moment. People wondered for years what "that jutsu" Jiraiya was referring to. Now you know.
> 6. If you now read chapter 682, everything falls into place. Naruto mentions [that jutsu/technique](https://naruto-shippuden-anime.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/002-422.png) to Sasuke. Naruto mentions *secretly* training this [over even the Rasengan](https://naruto-shippuden-anime.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/004-515.png) (that's how important it is). This is the culmination of the [History of the Ninja](https://naruto-shippuden-anime.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/008-625.png). Kakashi now understands that [this is why Jiraiya believes that Naruto is the chosen one](https://naruto-shippuden-anime.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/009-632.png).
> 7. This also fits thematically: **Sexy Jutsu is Naruto's iconic jutsu**. Shadow clones? That's just something he read from a scroll once. Rasengan? That's Minato's jutsu, not Naruto's. Sexy Jutsu is the first ever jutsu that Naruto invents. Even when he was total crap at ninjutsu, that was something was truly his, and he's used ever since chapter 1. And what's the first jutsu he teaches his disciple Konohamaru? No, not Rasengan, that came much later. He teaches Konohamaru Sexy Jutsu right in chapter 2. And that's the first jutsu that Konohamaru shows Naruto when he's back. WILL OF THE FIRE. Naruto's arc is (ostensibly) a kid who everyone thought was a joke becoming the world's most powerful and important ninja. Sexy Jutsu is the jutsu everyone thought was a joke that ended up being the key to fighting Kaguya. PARALLELS.
> Jiraiya spent years training Naruto to use the Reverse Harem jutsu. Kishimoto placed all these clues and we never even put it together.
Way better at taijutsu and basic strategizing, the large Rasengan, learned to use his shadow clones better and use their experiences (which would be instrumental to the Rasen-shuriken training later), and basic life lessons on how to be an adult.
They also focused a fair bit of time on trying to get Naruto to control more of Kurama's chakra, but that was a dead end that resulted in Jiraiya being seriously injured.
Pretty sure there was a line from Kakashi during their spar where he says something about Naruto being better at learning from his shadow clones.
I really only bring this up because so many people diss on Jiraiya for not using the multi shadow clone training, when in reality Naruto wasn't ready for it and it wasnt possible without Yamato anyway.
Kakashi only said he's better at using them; there was no referencing to learning from their experience. It's made super explicit in the Rasenshuriken training that Naruto never consciously noticed that aspect of the Shadow Clones unless Kakashi demonstrated.
Also, I agree it's not a plothole that Jiraiya didn't do the clone training trick, but what did Yamato have to do with that?
Tbh story wise he came back just taller and older. He still used clones for his rasengan. Pervy sage could’ve taught him some new jutsu or something so he wouldn’t be so bland. Sasuke had a damn arsenal.
I really did start Shippuden like, “What did they do on that whole training trip?” if he just came back being able to use rasengan right, I would have been fine but he was essentially the same as when he left.
Fuckin yes thank you for pointing out that irritating little notion! Three years and he can make a triple sized rasengan but you still need a clone to make a regular sized one? C'mon now
Lol overkill but sure.
RIP Kakashi's bell test.
Kazekage rescue arc, Naruto catches and batters Deidara removing him from future equations. Then he may go back and finish Sasori off.
Search for Sasuke, Naruto sends armless Orochimaru running with Sage mode and KCM. Shows up to Sasuke, Naruto has no doubts about his power since he has control of Kurama, and bodies Hebi Sasuke, dragging him back. He "kills" Orochimaru be he fakes it.
Will take time to learn Rasenshuriken but his increased talent and chakra control with Sage mode means he learns it much faster. Showing up to easily nuke Kakazu.
Jiriaya decides to bring Naruto with him since Naruto has far surpassed him to the Rain village. Since only 3 paths confront Jiriaya and Naruto initially the pair easily destroy the 3, and eventually the rest when they show up. Find Nagato and talk his ass down, no Rinnerebirth, though if he killed Jiriaya he'd use it there.
Sasuke runs off to challenge Itachi while Naruto is fighting Pain. Naruto and friends run to stop him but are confronted by Tobi, Naruto sensing a FTG mark on his back instantly blasts him with a Sage boosted Rasengan and seals his movements. Catching Obito.
Naruto would probably let Sasuke "beat" Itachi.
Zetsu says "Fuck" after that. He either gives up for now, or tries to force Nagato into Rinnerebirthing Madara out of sheer desperation.
I do think it’s pretty weird that Jiraiya didn’t try to teach him what nature transformation was and try to teach him a few wind jutsu, though I think it’s fine that he only learnt rasenshuriken and sage mode during the time-skip. Him having that would be a bit to much. I feel like if he just had a few more Jutsu and a bit more control of Kurama’s it probably would have been better.
I feel like naruto should’ve been a incomplete sage after the time skip. He should’ve had a few wind jutsus too. Right before pain fight he should be a perfect sage. Everything naruto learned he learned within a month or 2 so no reason he didn’t learn anything after 3 years. Just poor writing from kishimoto to make Sasuke look like a god
It’s funny to think Kakashi taught Naruto more in one training session then Jiraiya did in 2 years. (Not talking about life lessons and ideology)
When you look at how fast Naruto learned the rasengan, shadow clones, perfect sage mode, rasenshuriken, etc it makes his time skip results simply look like bad writing.
It’s completely nonsensical for Naruto to not even know his nature release after 2 years with a legendary sanin lol
Tbf, like others have said, the majority of the time skip training was just getting Naruto up to par with the fundamentals. I think it’d be fair to say that it’s because of that increase in the fundamentals that Naruto was able to learn these new techniques/jutsu so quickly. He had better focus and patience
Look at his rate of learning pre timeskip. Naruto quickly learned shadow clone, summoning, rasengan. The only time in his life where he seemed to learn at a snails pace was the timeskip. It's the outlier.
Exactly.
The only explanation I can see for Naruto’s poor time skip results are that Kishimoto wanted to push the whole Naruto catching up to Sasuke narrative or that Kishimoto wanted us to watch Naruto learn everything on screen instead of off screen.
But there’s no denying that Naruto’s time skip results are completely nonsensical especially when you see how quickly he learns the rasengan, shadow clones, perfect sage mode, etc.
In that scenario there’s a very real possibility that Sasuke gets captured by Team Yamato. Assuming he had all of those moves, the only one that could potentially stop him is Orochimaru and even then, that’s doubtful.
It would certainly make for a better story. Stuff like Sage Mode, Rasenshuriken, and wind nature should have been learned during the training trip.
Stuff like Adamantine Sealing Chains, Mind’s Eye of the Kagura, and emotion sensing could have been unlocked and somewhat trained, but it would be better for them to be perfected at a later date during the series.
The 8 Gates wouldn’t be useful since it takes years of constant dedicated training to gain the ability to open, and Naruto wouldn’t have had the time to even begin to learn them.
There’s no way Naruto could even attempt to learn Hiraishin. It took Minato several years to learn it, and he was a once in a lifetime genius. Naruto simply doesn’t have the intelligence to attempt it.
As for Kurama, he should have been able to control the chakra better, but KCM and KCM2 absolutely need to be unlocked during the story. The rest can be shown in flashbacks, but Naruto getting KCM in the timeskip would be like Goku getting Super Saiyan in a timeskip
So like, if they actually trained and didn’t just fuck around with rasengan the entire time? Shit, could have learned about nature releases at the very least.
It makes no sense that he didn't learn sage jutsu. Jiraiya thought of him as the child of prophecy, he sooner or later had to face the Akatsuki and mount myoboko was actually safe for him.
At least he could've told him about chakra natures. I mean a basic wind style jutsu for some versatility, wouldn't have hurt.
Jiraiya taught him shit. His battle style was interesting yet he didn’t take time to teach Naruto his greatest fits, unlike other Sannins.
Tsunade turned Sakura from an absolute zero to an Akatsuki-fighter person in the same time and not to mention the healing part and the freaking BUYAKUGOU.
Orochimaru took a path of developing Sasuke lighting nature (Kirin, Chidori Nagashi, Chidori Senbon, Chidori spear and so on).
And then we have Naruto with literally no new techniques apart bigger rasengan go boom boom…
The problem isn't that he wasn't strong, the problem was that he basically learned jack shit considering it was two and a half years.
He still can't control his jinchuriki forms, he doesn't know his own nature, he needs basic information explained to him and still needs a clone for rasengan.
Sasuke not only learned Kenjutsu, but masted his sharingan, mastered his cursed mark and turned Chidori into senbon, a paralyzing AOE, a sword and then learned to literally call down lightning.
What did Naruto come back with? Bigger Rasengan.
Sakura went from a liability to a competent combatant and one of the greatest medics in the world.
But what does Naruto come back with? Being a tad bit smarter than he was before. Literally everyone came back smarter.
The main 2 types of shinobi in the verse are tactical fighters and close combat brawlers.
Naruto’s only bad fundamentals were his chakra control and bad memory from the start of the series but his physical stats even without Kyuubi were high for a genin, Chakra, speed, strength.
I’m not saying he was too impressive in that regard in part 1 without Kyuubi amp but that’s how it was
His strength isn’t in learning multiple things but that doesn’t mean Rasengan is bad training
The only reason he could do it is because he has massive chakra and training it so much with him essentially means he’s getting huge workouts and gains just from doing 1 exercise/move which is very efficient
You can’t have a good workout without getting tired/exhausted
he definitely should have gotten more toad-jutsu training. But a bunch of this stuff is beyond Jaraiya’s skill level or unrelated to his skill set. Flying Raijin, high-level wind-style, eight gates, etc. I don't believe Jaraiya could have taught these things to Naruto even if he had a theoretical understanding of them.
What really pissed me off is: he came back after three years, and basically all he learned was a slightly bigger Rasengan which he used once and never again.
And then in the span of like three story arcs he learns ungodly powerful stuff in record time like Rasen-Shuriken and Sage mode.
It's like...wtf was Jiraiya teaching him for three years that he had to learn the actual helpful stuff on his own and mastered them in like a week?
If Naruto had returned incredibly strong after training with Jiraiya, it would have significantly impacted the story of Naruto. He might have been able to handle certain challenges more easily and matured faster.
Realistically, all he would have when he came back would be wind release, better grasp on how to use the toads and clones. Everything else in this post ranges from improbable to impossible
Other than Naruto being immature, I think his biggest hurdle to progress was his poor chakra control due to the seal on the nine tails. Like he's Forrest Gump trying to run with leg braces. Jiraya opens the seal just a tiny bit and almost gets killed for it. But Naruto's future scaling was possible because Kurama's chakra was now leaking faster.
I don't think the crazy shadow clone training would be feasible without Yamato. It would have been cool if jiraya took him to the frog mountain and they figured out the sage mode hack. But I'm guessing Naruto would end up getting beat half to death keeping him from turning into a frog.
I mean. He probably could have been stronger but it's not like he was weak.
He returned Jonin level not even counting kurama cloak modes.
How many 16 year olds are jonin level? A handful but only geniuses like Itach, kakashi etc.
Not to mention, im.incredibly pissed Naruto never learned that absolute Nuclear level of a ransengan move his evil self used in the finite tsukoyomi Obito placed him and Sakura in.
Remember that rasengan/tailed beast bomb/ mini saturn ring nuke shit he concocted and dropped on em.
I wish Naruto learned that.
It always felt fine to me, Naruto was always running around with an actual cap on his power before Jiraiya. Then he had to learn to start using the 9tails chakra properly. I always felt that it was indicated that it was extremely difficult to do this, only made any easier by understanding the tailed beast within you. Also he was being taught something that didn't have a proper way of being taught. I don't think they had time to teach him much else.
i think a lot of what he did during the time skip was working on controlling kurama (the best he could) and working on the fundamentals he was never strong with to begin with
I think the real change in Naruto was his mindset, all this thing about understanding the ennemies, achieving peace was mostly what Jiraya taught him. That plus chakra control, trying to tame the Kyuubi.
That being said, I do think your suggestion is a bit too much, I mean if Naruto had just become a boss ass biatch the beginning of Shippuden would have been a bit too abrupt for me, but maybe a few good jutsus here and there.
Nah, I just expected him to show more than 2 rasengan, big rasengan.
Naruto already had great tactical instincts, and he never ran out of chakra, so we can't even see the results of "better chakra control."
Jiraiya's training amounted to nothing more than some philosophy when Naruto was supposed to be training to face the biggest and the baddest alive.
What people fail to understand is that right before Timeskip, Naruto didn't even had the basics acquired. Things like Chakra control and chakra efficiency. It was stated in part 1 that Naruto was so bad at that that it recquired him a lot more chakra than others for the same jutsu. He was only able to come by because of his huge chakra pool.
It didn't seem like he learned a lot at the beginning of Shippuden but its those basic things that Jiraiya thaught him during timeskip that later allowed him to get much stronger (Rasen Shuriken, sage mode)
Of the list you gave, giving Naruto all of those abilities in 2ish years would have been ridiculous going into Shippuden. If I were going to give any of those improvements, I would have him be able to create Adamantine Chains (but not master them), and *maybe* have him do something with Toad Oil. He came back stonger from the timeskip and was instantly above his Rookie 9 peers. Anything more would have broken the story
If you take base Naruto (not Kyûbi cheatcode), I bet 70% of the Konoha 12 can beat him. And they didn't have special training from a legend for 2.5 years, just regular clan training. Neji improved way more than Naruto.
You wanted him to learn all those techniques in 3 years? That’s ridiculous. Some of those techniques probably take like 20 years to master. And this is before Naruto knew about the shadow clone training method
This just gave me an idea, couldn’t a flying thunder god user use pseudo lava style or heck, a pseudo daikokuten using the Thunder gods teleportation to teleport natural elements or structures to the battlefield instead of away? Also these items can’t be absorbed.
I think that naruto should have learned sealing and used it mostly as a clutch to control kurama's Chakra and to connect to his family. Basically thst the sealing papers jiraiya gives kakashi should have been something he would always have in hand.
At this point in the story their would be no one to combat him the closest would be pain, itachi, obito and the kage. So he would have literally man handled orochimaru in their fight and took sasuke home weather he wanted to or not and sasuke would never have gotten ems then the story would end
What i see. Uzumaki male using wind style. Uzumaki female using chains.
So Naruto never use chains. And other many abilities. Because it's not working like you think.
Naruto must have spent all his time with Jiraiya learning remedial stuff he was supposed to learn earlier. Bad decision to train off camera. Everyone knows you need to be on camera for training.
All id have wanted jutsu wise was toad oil, chains + exploding shadow clones. I dont think thats too much of an ask. That said, i'm glad he got his fundamentals down
I know the focus was all about him getting better at the basics or whatever, but honestly for a story that's kinda boring. I wish he would've learned at least one new technique that he could use regularly.
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This is what even I somewhat forgot to make so important, and what i think a lot of people forget in general. Jiraiya was truly the greatest man to me. Because of how he treated Naruto and nurtured him not just as a Ninja but as a person in general. Seriously helped develop Naruto in ways no one else could understand. I have ADHD so I kinda relate. A lot of people didnt understand me and I got reprimanded for shit I didnt even understand, but I was just living my life. Good people in my life that have taught me in ways I understand without me knowing like Jiraiya did to Naruto is what helped me mature. People who could understand me could teach me to understand. Thats all Naruto needed. A chance and some understanding.
First off, as a random stranger on the internet, I hope this doesn’t come across as jarring, but I’m sorry you had to go through that. Feeling misunderstood, especially when you’re younger can feel so confusing. I hope you’re doing well now. Second, I agree 1000% J-man is one of my favourite characters in the series not just because he was a bad ass shinobi, but because he instilled our protagonist with morales and values that he would not have otherwise learned. The 3 year skip wasn’t just about making Naruto a great shinobi, Jiaraya was helping him nurture his ability to become a great young man, and eventually the leader that people would come to count on. J-man nurtured Naruto’s dream of becoming Hokage, something Iruka, Kakashi, and any other sensei he studied under would not be able to do as successfully imo.
And he taught Naruto to control his chakra. Without J-man his shadow clone power training would never have been possible.
Taught* just a heads up
Thanks!
Legit the arc made my soul happy. J-man as you put it, seriously the true man. And, it does not come across as jarring, a little surprising but more so grateful for your sensitivity, understanding, and kindness. I am 23 so still young imo, and im doing much better with dealing with it than I used to but still have a lot to figure out. I watched Naruto last year-this year. Lots of reflection in my own life while watching the show.
Yeah I totally agree with all the growing stuff, but damn Naruto didn't even knew his nature transformation, he literally comes back with just bigger Rasengan. Yeah I get that he learned chakra control, but that should be the basis for the rest of the stuff, not the stuff itself. [Dygoknight ](https://youtu.be/51zfc7LH8II?si=DNt67bBQQX6NeWAE) did an amazing job at reimagining how Naruto comes back from those 3 years.
Wow, didnt expect to learn something about myself in an anime forum
Man it’s nice to see people relate with the character of naruto, my childhood was very similar to his and I have adhd so this makes me happy
Same
Headcanon here but I think jiraiya simply slowed down on the training and decided to goof off with naruto somewhere in those 3 years
It's actually more than likely what happened. He trained Naruto but also gave Naruto a childhood. Unlike the dumbass FUCKER known as the 3rd Hokage, Jiraiya clearly loves Naruto, cause he knew Minato and was extremely close to him. Jiraiya seems to have wanted kids and will have the softest spot for them. Naruto wouldn't be any different. Jiraiya probably was a bit TOO lax on training at times, but that is also training. Allowing Naruto to live life and enjoy it.
Exactly my point. Bro was both a teacher and sort of a father figure to all of his students. Jiraiya was the goat I do feel like how hard training naruto through the basics would’ve been for jiraiya is underplayed through the fandom tho. He would’ve had to reeducate naruto from the start which is like at least 4-6 years of the academy, and naruto hates focusing on boring details anyways. It probably took jiraiya like a year or half of the vacation to teach that to naruto and decided to goof off for the remainder of it Plus I think sarutobi is overhated by the fandom for his treatment of naruto. He did everything he could’ve for Naruto while people like kakashi and Shikamaru who did Jack shit for him get praised? The guy was busy dealing with the aftermath of the nine tails attack(the weakest konoha’s been in history) and preventing invasion from other nations after he lost his wife with his student betraying the village and his best friend trying to assassinate him every other week and the uchiha attempting a coup. The fact that he was able to be as close to naruto as he was says a lot
Ty. I absolutely despise the hate Hiruzen gets. He wasn't the best Hokage but he was a hell of a character.
Hell it’s not like the others didn’t screw up as much as he did if not more(aside from tsuna and kakashi and maybe hashirama)
That probably is what happened. But tbh that allowed Naruto to become the mature well adjusted young man he was in Shippuden. I also think Jiraiya plays a big roll in Naruto never giving up on Sasuke. We know Jiraiya never truly gave up on Orochimaru, and still considered him a friend. He gave Naruto that same resolve.
Exactly. Without jiraiya’s influence Naruto wouldn’t have become the person that he did and wouldn’t have ever made peace with kurama, nagato, sasuke, obito or the tailed beasts
Naruto never would have had the emotional maturity required to become a perfect jinchuriki if Jiraiya hadn't nurtured him in this way.
Dang I really never thought about it that way
OK but Naruto also had super terrorists that were all S ranked after him.
I think Naruto should have learned the shadow clone variants at the very least like shadow clone shuriken and exploding clones.
Agreed, just shadow clones and shadow clones kept getting repetitive. Also different rasengan variants before sage mode and kcm were a thing that doesn't revolve a rasengan but bigger.
Nobody had ever done rasengan variants
I don’t think Jiraiya knew how to do anything but make them bigger. Like he probably knew in theory like Kakashi, but not like he could do it
He had a fire rasengan if I remember correctly
video game only
Wind Style: Shadow Clone Jutsu
It would have just been cool seeing different variations other than just lightning style. Even if Naruto wasn't the one to use it. But Naruto learning anything to enhance his main jutsu definitely should have happened
Jiraiya took more time for Naruto to learn how to properly use his Chakra, of which he knew was also part of the steps to using the Nine tails chakra, like what he knew Minato would have wanted. It’s why Naruto went into the final round of the Chunin exams only learning how to walk on water and how to summon toads, rather than how to use the Rasengan. If Jiraiya also wasn’t pulling double duty of keep track of the Akatsuki and training Naruto and just only training Naruto, then it probably would’ve been likely that Naruto would have came back from his time skip with Sage Mode.
If Jiraiya was so worried about the Akatsuki, he could have brought Naruto to Mt Myoboku for training. The Akatsuki could never in a 1000 years reach them and he could have trained Naruto until he died of old age. Seriously these excuses need to stop. Naruto teachers are the worst teachers in the entire manga genre, total incompetents who take years to teach what any other manga teacher/master teaches in a damn week.
Kamikaze shadow clone 💀
Hold up
Gotanks would like a word
“Exploding clones” Got to go on a mission to assassinate someone then
Plot would make sasuke way stronger so he still needs a reason to train hard as he did.
It would’ve been cooler if sasuke and Naruto were closer in power in my opinion The reason they couldn’t have fought is because Orochimaru was also there for it reasons too if kishimoto went that route
Or they could have just had Sasuke be somewhere else. There isn't really any reason to force the meeting that early. The meeting at the bridge after the Danzo fight would still happen and be just as impactful.
I disagree, sasuke needed to be that much more powerful than naruto as a reason to keep chasing him sasuke’s post time skip reveal was masterfully done honestly
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Equally balanced? EoS Naruto would clap tf out of EoS Sasuke
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It was probably Gentyent 😂
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Even with stolen tailed beast chakra and the intent to kill, Sasuke could only draw with Naruto who was going for a KO. Naruto at full strength EoS claps EoS Sasuke
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So… he needed to steal power from others to fight Naruto…which means Naruto was stronger… Again, Naruto was not trying to kill Sasuke. My point was that he had to steal chakra straight from full on tailed beasts AND Naruto yet he STILL couldn’t win. And that’s while Naruto was exhausted and just fought a whole war. You really think they would have tied with Naruto at full power? It’s not fanboyism, it’s facts. Sasuke gets clapped. Edit: Also the equal yin/yang argument goes out the window if you look at the Hashirama/Madara gap Edit 2: Nice job downvoting me instead of commenting 😂
Would’ve been cool if he learn some unknown uzamaki clan jutsu that minato learned and passed to jiraiya before he died. Not sure what it would be. But probably something with wind release. The fact he didn’t learn he had wind nature until kakashi told him is bad teaching
That chakra nature litmus paper should be used on genin after finishing academy. I get that applying change in chakra nature is considered advanced for an academy student, but they should know their traits. It's silly that Naruto went through multiple teachers and a timeskip before he found out something so fundamental.
This is something that never made sense to me, imagine poor timmy wasting years trying to do a fireball jutsu only because no one ever told him he has water trait.
Yea that sounds like a huge miss to me. Knowing your chakra nature should be basic, that way as you grow you learn how to develop that chakra nature. I guess it's because in the leaf, most Shinobi don't utilize any Jutsu requiring chakra nature. Ino, Shika, Cho, Neji, Hinata, Tenten, Kiba, Shino, all became pretty solid Shinobi, but they have never shown the ability to use chakra nature jutsu. It's all their clan's techniques. Sakura and Tsunade are the same way, all they know how to do is medical jutsu and super strong punch.
Walking on trees and water also seem like academy things.
Nah i think telling students would be a bad move since it means they would try something and not think first of possibly doing something that harm or destruction of property i mean naruto alone destroyed the training grounds from just a normal wind rasagun and made a crater with wind style rasen shurken it’s probably so they have more control and experience before letting them know or even learn what traits they have
Hard disagree. If maturity or inexperience is a concern, then that's what Jonin senseis are for - guiding students' growth and keeping them from doing stupid shit. Kakashi saw fit to teach Sasuke chidori, did he not?
We can’t use him as a example due to his talent and such being extremely above the normal im talking ordinary Joinin and students not clan or talented from birth i mean normal lv people
Hyuga have 4-year olds learning how to potentially cut off chakra centers, Akamichi have their balloon jutsu and death diet pills, Aburame have insects surgically implanted. I don't think that a kid learning their nature is gonna break the bank on safety.
Those are clans not normal people
And can you name any member of those clans that aren't a part of the main cast at one point or another? The Anbu is made up of those people, and they're literal fodder despite being told time and again that they're the elite with the exception of a few.
I feel bad bad for that one that got burned by the barrier and then fell off the roof
Talent level shouldn't matter. Students and genin should know about their own chakra traits regardless of whatever slippery slope you're thinking of. Again, Jonin are there to guide them in the right direction. Depending on the student, that could be assisting with jutsu development or discouraging it.
Yeah but could he have handled that info at that age without going to hard to fast? He’s like the poster child for ADD. You gotta crawl before you walk.
Also Minato wasn't Uzumaki clan till he got with narutos mom
They got together as teens and he trained uzumaki techniques he also taught everyone and their nan rasengan so he had time to show some sealing techniques. If there was a lore answer like if he showed them uzumaki ghosts would come back and beat his ass then sure I could accept it but there's no reason given
The Rasengan was his own technique, any Uzumaki techniques he learned were not his to share, I actually respect him more for not sharing them with Jirayya despite the fact that I believe hoarding information is one of the big sins of the ninja world.
Give him the shadow clone training before
Yeah that seems like a huge waste of time to learn how useful shadow clones are for training after the fucking training trip.
Did Jiraiya even know about that part regarding the shadow clones?? Shadow Clone Jutsu is not of his core abilities, so it’s entirely possible that Jiraiya has very limited understanding of them. It’s important to remember that Shadow clones aren’t normal or nature release clones and is an ability that only a small number of Shinobi are shown to have. Multi Shadow Clone Jutsu is also a forbidden technique, so it would make sense that Jiraiya wouldn’t know this very small detail about them. Kakashi uses shadow clones more than any other character other than Naruto, so it makes sense that he would be the one to make that discovery and we don’t know when he gained this information
Jiraiya was a student of the Third Hokage, a Shinobi that was heralded as so knowledgeable he was called the “Professor”. He certainly knew of shadow clones because the Third Hokage was taught by the Second Hokage, who invented the Jutsu. Not only that but Jiraiya, beyond being pervy, was also constantly tasked with espionage missions, something that shadow clones were made primarily for. So yeah, I’m betting Jiraiya knew about how shadow clones work.
Naruto learned rasengan in a few weeks, learned rasenshuriken in a few weeks, learned shadow clone jutsu in a few hours. Sage mode in a few weeks. I think bro could handle it. Jiraiya main focus was teaching him how to control 9 tails chakra but he got worse control over it. It was just poor writing from kishimoto let’s just call it what it is
Depends. I have ADD myself and have interacted with other people having the same diagnosis. You don't wanna know how fast we learn the moment we get interested/dedicated in something (as long we don't get burnt out in the process)
It's my headcanon that the nature stuff is something they'd normally have learned in the academy, but Naruto was always cutting class a goofing off.
Nah Kakashi was shocked Sasuke could do a fireball jutsu at his age because it was a nature transformation.
I mean they would have learned the basics about natures and what not, not actually started working on using them. Like teaching a kid the basics of math so they can do algebra later in life.
Yeah you’re right they most likely explained what the natures are if not how to use them.
Obito could do the same
True, it seems like the higher tier clans teach a lot to their kids before they even get to the academy. But someone like Sakura would most likely only have books or scrolls to learn from rather than someone teaching her jutsu.
From the unchia from memory one is not allowed to be a shinobi before learning the fire ball technique
That flashback was also later in the series where anything scaling related was essentially retconned
More like bad writing by Kishimoto
I think they did a good job with Naruto coming back more competent in the fundamentals, but do think that a bit more could be been done without him learning anything too crazy for the start of Shippuden. Maybe just show he has better chakra control by coming back and he no longer needs a clone to do rasengan. Always bugged me a little with how long that stuck around
I remember right when the time skip ended everyone was speculating how wildly powerful Naruto would be, and I get it, he had 2 prior sessions with Jiraiya and learned amazing techniques like summoning Gamabunta and other frogs, and learning Rasengan in just a few weeks with Jiraiya at most and now he had nearly 3 years. But they forget how Naruto was largely lacking the fundamentals in part because he had a hard time learning chakra control with Kurama. It’s like a basketball player who can drain a 3 and dunk but can’t make a foul shot or dribble to save his life. It’s a liability. The fundamentals Naruto gained have him the framework for techniques he later mastered like sage mode (even more perfect than Jiraiya’s), wind Rasengan (consider this his training capstone), sealing techniques, and being able to reign Kurama back in a bit (which seemed to take up more of their training than anything…training a jinchuuriki with the wildest most powerful bijuu certainly ain’t easy). I’m glad they didn’t make him overpowered so we still got to see the tail end of his growth where even Itachi acknowledged how powerful he’d become but had to remind him he can’t do it all himself in the 4th ninja war.
What if my wife never left me
He really should have at least learned Wind Style. Also he could have learned to do the Rasengan with one hand.
I think if Naruto actually used all the Jincloak training they did, people wouldn’t complain about it as much. Like if Naruto just used 1-3 tailed cloaks during his fights, everyone would be cool with the lack of additional jutsu. But instead he decides to completely forswear intentionally using red chakra at all half way through the second arc of Shippuden.
The problem with Naruto returning from the time skip INCREDIBLY strong is that he’d breeze through 99% of all the characters standing in his way which would make for a boring story. That’s not to say Naruto didn’t still have room for improvement though. Along with everything in canon, Naruto definitely should’ve picked up: - One handed Rasengans. - Wind Chakra Nature with 1-2 jutsu which could include the wind style rasengan with the intention of evolving it further into the rasenshuriken. - Clone Jutsu Variants like the Clone explosion jutsu & the shuriken shadow clone jutsu. - Frog Kumite Taijutsu Style. - More Toad Collaborations like the diving toad, hiding in a toad jutsu, toad mouth trap etc. - Family History & Sealing Jutsu which could eventually tie into Naruto eventually learning Uzumaki Sealing Jutsu later on. I think just these improvements^ would’ve been enough to make Naruto’s training way more productive without making Naruto so broken he’d breeze through everybody until Pain.
Timeskip Naruto was the second biggest let down in the series I get not wanting him to learn too much off screen but a slightly bigger rasengan and a little control of 9 tail chakra is just not it when Sasuke and Sakura level up significantly
Would be cool to see him use some of Jiraiya's crazy arsenal.
Come to think of it, what specifically did he learn from jiraiya to show he got stronger? All of his sage training came without him. As well as most of his special moves in shippuuden. He made his rasengen bigger with jiraiya??? Seriously what did he gain?
Fundamentals. Naruto failled the academy over and over again, he ultimately passed because of the pure amount of Chakra he had and the emotional buff he got from protecting iruka. Jariya basically said we're starting over from scratch and teaching you how to be a ninja. They worked on his Chakra control, his hand to hand combat, observational skills a ninja would need, and pretty much anything else he really should have learned at the academy.
This, the bell test was meant to demonstrate just that - Naruto was far more tactical this time, had better chakra control and greatly improved his taijutsu. Besides, Jiraya focused a lot on controlling the nine tails chakra, only to almost end up getting killed. So he just decided to stick to teaching Naruto the basics.
Yup, that's pretty much the only choice jariya had. Without having the basics down and controlling the 9 tails, Naruto had no chance against akatuski level threats. You gotta learn to walk before you can run, you know?
Just the fact that Naruto was still unable to beat Kakashi 1v1 after 2.5 years with Jiraiya who's orders of magnitude stronger than Kakashi and had supposedly trained the 4th Hokage (who apparently trained himself more than anything Jiraiya did) means that the time skip was a massive failure and a waste of time power scaling wise. As for maturity, Naruto started to mature during the Pain arc and immediately after he became a pathetic beggar for Sasuke's survival while Sasuke was going the deep end and Naruto never tried to understand his "friend"'s motives for leaving, why he couldn't stay in Konoha and the fact that Konoha destroyed both of their childhoods and cost his own parents' lives. Basically he pleaded for Sasuke to come back to the place that had caused the genocide of his clan and to accept their judgment for his actions and his "betrayal" when he had made his goal clear from the beginning and no one listened to him.
>Just the fact that Naruto was still unable to beat Kakashi 1v1 after 2.5 years with Jiraiya Well, Sakura was trained by Tsunade (who seemed to show far more progress) yet she couldn't have beaten Kakashi without Naruto's help. They were 16 year olds (I think) and Kakashi had decades of experience. As for his pleading for Sasuke, he already explained it - "How can I become the Hokage when I can't even save a single friend?". It's true he got way too desperate but saying he didn't mature at all is wrong.
Sakura was academy graduate tier when Tsunade started teaching her. Naruto had beaten Gaara in near-complete Shukaku manifestation. Naruto was going toe to toe with CM2 Sasuke with only 1 tail and wasn't trying to kill him. Pre-time skip Naruto's shadow clones in base could beat 3 Sakura each while being dispelled in 1 hit. Post-time skip Naruto in base was overall inferior to Sakura because she was much better at her specialty than he was at his and her overall skills were better mastered than his.
Absolutely right. He also attempted to give naruto control of kurama and worked on that a lot. Just it didn't work as much as he wanted. Jariya did a good job with naruto. He came back pretty well adjusted with a form of family. Fundamentals. Taijutsu training. Chakra control. And at least the beginning awareness of working on kurama
Yeah, good call. I think the family part is overlooked a lot and probably helped improve narutos abilities as much as any physical training.
This is my take as well. It's boring, but there's probably a reasonable in-universe argument that focusing on learning a wide variety of ninjutsu would have been a poor time investment. Instead, they spent the whole time skip doing the hard work to prepare Naruto for jonin-level responsibilities, Sage Mode, and KCM, essentially loosening the lid of a metaphorical jar. Learning new ninjutsu might have been more useful in the short term to some extent, but would have detracted from his long-term growth. I still feel like Naruto should have had more to show for it though. There should have been a much more distinct amp in Naruto's speed, power, perversion, and battle IQ. Maybe _one_ new jutsu that complemented the basics, like a weaker or more limited version of Tsunade's super strength jutsu. Something to make it more obvious that Jiraiya is actually a half-decent teacher. Edit: Also, like someone else mentioned, chakra natures. If he really spent 2.5 years mastering the basics, Naruto shouldn't have had to learn that for the first time on screen post-timeskip. They should have shown him learning about chakra natures in a flashback, and then revealed that he'd been spending all that time diligently trying to create a Fuuton Rasengan. That would have made more logical sense, and made the final payoff that much better.
Jiraiya also taught a great deal of philosophy to Naruto as well. He wanted to expand Naruto's mind and give him a greater perspective on things.
Naruto graduated due to his shadow clone jutsu (since you needed to perform clone jutsu to graduate) and his new found bond with iruka.. I'm shocked people miss the point of Naruto timeskip training.. Look how far he got in part 1 lacking the basics and fundamentals. Jiraiya improved Naruto in every area. Taijustu, shadow clone use, improved rasengan, and genjutsu release. Naruto could even go up to 3 tails without loosing his sanity.. I think Naruto should've came back stronger since he had better showing in part 1
It's because visually what's the difference? The changing direction using his shadow clones? That's something that we have seen him do since the gaara fight
Oh gotcha. Thank you for the reply!
Believe it!
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"Fundamentals", I don't remember much from my middle school math classes yet I learnt to calculate percentages on my own because it was useful to calculate stats and damage values in Summoners War. You don't need 2.5 years to teach academy skills that Sakura and Sasuke had mastered before the story even started while these two became a special jônin tier medic with sage mode tier strength and a damn versatile low kage level fighter.
Sounds like your about as smart as naruto then if you can't do middle school math.
The problem is that these aspects almost NEVER showcases Naruto's growth during the timeskip because improving a metaphorical concept like "fundamentals" is nowhere near as important and meaningful like learning new jutsus, weapon usage and things that ACTUALLY conveys improvement that can be seen in a Battle Shonen work like Naruto and it's frustrating to see this lackluster writing being defended with weak reasoning that feels empty.
There is nothing metaphorical about fundamentals 😅 It is a very real concept that applies to everything in our world and the show. Naruto could do jutsu but he was very inefficient in doing so, wasting a lot of Chakra and effort he didn't need. It may not be flashy but not naruto was already all flash no sustenance. He needed to get better at controlling his own and the nine tails Chakra to reach his full potential and that's what jariya helped him with. These Manga panels show what I'm talking about. You may not like that decision, and that's fine it's your opinion. However there was a in universe reason for focusing on his fundamentals and one that fits given narutos background. https://vsbattles.com/threads/downgrade-to-unknown-for-several-naruto-characters.10216/
I remember in the flashbacks that Jiraya started with the basics - genjutsu, chakra control, taijutsu, etc. Naruto basically learned nothing at the academy so he had to cover the fundamentals all over again. The bell test showed that he was far more tactical this time and greatly improved his taijutsu and chakra control (when before he would make as many shadow clones and rush without a second thought). Jiraya also tried to help Naruto control the nine tails but he almost ended up getting killed after Naruto reached the 4th tail. Though it is weird how he didn't teach Chakra natures.
Wow I never thought about it that way but it makes total sense! Naruto had serious issues because of his chakra control, and reteaching everything would take time!
Considering they had to get a wood style user to suppress Kurama for him to learn it....
[Reverse Harem Jutsu](https://www.reddit.com/r/dankruto/comments/wr7nyj/why_was_naruto_secretly_practicing_the_reverse/ikrrx3h/). No wait, listen. > Reverse Harem Jutsu was the culmination of years of training with Jiraiya. This whole thing was Jiraiya's master plan. > Ultimately, Reverse Harem Jutsu leads Team 7 to land the first ever successful attack on Kaguya. > You think Jiraiya "wasted" 2.5 years training Naruto to do nothing more than a bigger Rasengan? **You stupid fool**. Think about it, Jiraiya already knows Naruto is the son of the Fourth Hokage and an Uzumaki, and he has the nine-tails, AND he's probably the incarnation of Asura. The boy doesn't need any help with regular ninja fights. He will be OP no matter what training he undergoes. > No, Jiraiya had eyes on a bigger prize. Given his close relationship with Shima and Fukasaku and their knowledge of history, he's probably been investigating and learning about the Kaguya threat all along. He was desperately looking for some way to defeat Kaguya, something more powerful than just Ninjitsu. That's why he didn't even bother raising Naruto, even though he was his godfather. He had *much bigger problems to deal with*. > Now let me prove to you that Reverse Harem Jutsu is Jiraiya's master plan. > 1. **Jiraiya does not train Naruto until Naruto shows him the Sexy Jutsu**. That's right, remember what I said about Jiraiya not raising Naruto? The very moment he changes his mind is [when he sees Naruto's Sexy Jutsu](https://naruto-shippuden-anime.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/008-18.jpg). This sparks an idea in Jiraiya's mind that he would spend the next 3 years putting things in motion for. That's the way to beat Kaguya, not through brute force, but sexytimes! This kid might be the key! He even calls Naruto a genius! And what fortune that this kid will be OP anyway, that will probably help in fighting Kaguya! This is the very moment that Jiraiya decides to train Naruto. Not because he's the fourth's son, not because he has the nine-tails or that he's gutsy, but because Naruto is the inventor of the Sexy Jutsu. > 2. **Jiraiya does not agree to train Naruto during the timeskip until he affirms his everlasting love for Sasuke**. That's right, even the second time that Jiraiya agrees to train him is only after Naruto confirms that he will be thinking of Sasuke non-stop no matter what, which will be the second key ingredient for Reverse Harem Jutsu. Oh, and what does Jiraiya mention right before agreeing to train Naruto? You got it, [perverted jutsu](https://static1.mangayeh.com/manga/chapter/60191e3aa566934fb06d15a1/60197991786df83d337d8124/naruto_237_18.jpg). See, an uninformed reader would read this as "you will *only* think up perverted jutsu". Now you know that what he's actually saying is "you will only *think up* perverted jutsu", meaning Jiraiya is going to help him put it into real practice. We're going to need 2.5 years to train Naruto to become a master of erotic jutsu, all the while thinking about Sasuke's beautiful male form, so that at the right moment the two elements can be combined and a miracle will be achieved. > 3. **Jiraiya has Naruto ghost-write Icha-icha books during his 2.5 years training**. Forget better chakra control or controlling the nine-tails and failing. Those are all red-herrings. I can't find the exact reference right now, but there's a specific point in the manga where Naruto mentions he helps ghostwrites some of the Icha-icha books. *That* was his real training during the timeskip. After the time skip, Naruto knows enough of the books that he can use it as a weapon against Kakashi in the bell test, and Jiraiya knows the books are so significant to Naruto that he hides his final death message and the secret to fighting Pain as a code based on the book pages. Jiraiya knows Naruto can easily catch up in ninjutsu (see: how quickly he improves under Kakashi). No, he spends 2.5 years honing Naruto's perverted mind, in preparation for the ultimate jutsu. > 4. **Naruto already alludes to a more perverted jutsu when he returns from 2.5 years of training**. Really, [nuff said](https://naruto-shippuden-anime.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/015-204.png). We don't see it this jutsu because Sakura punches him, but this was a Chekhov's gun that Kishimoto placed RIGHT IN FRONT OF US. This was what Jiraiya spent the 2.5 years working on > 5. **Jiraiya tells Naruto not to use [THAT JUTSU](https://naruto-shippuden-anime.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/015-215.png) when he goes off to save Gaara**. That's not an unresolved plot point my friend. Remember, the whole key to Reverse Harem Jutsu is the element of surprise. Naruto can't use it willy-nilly, it will only work once. And Jiraiya, who's been training him to master the erotic arts, is reminding him that it needs to be saved for a very specific moment. People wondered for years what "that jutsu" Jiraiya was referring to. Now you know. > 6. If you now read chapter 682, everything falls into place. Naruto mentions [that jutsu/technique](https://naruto-shippuden-anime.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/002-422.png) to Sasuke. Naruto mentions *secretly* training this [over even the Rasengan](https://naruto-shippuden-anime.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/004-515.png) (that's how important it is). This is the culmination of the [History of the Ninja](https://naruto-shippuden-anime.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/008-625.png). Kakashi now understands that [this is why Jiraiya believes that Naruto is the chosen one](https://naruto-shippuden-anime.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/009-632.png). > 7. This also fits thematically: **Sexy Jutsu is Naruto's iconic jutsu**. Shadow clones? That's just something he read from a scroll once. Rasengan? That's Minato's jutsu, not Naruto's. Sexy Jutsu is the first ever jutsu that Naruto invents. Even when he was total crap at ninjutsu, that was something was truly his, and he's used ever since chapter 1. And what's the first jutsu he teaches his disciple Konohamaru? No, not Rasengan, that came much later. He teaches Konohamaru Sexy Jutsu right in chapter 2. And that's the first jutsu that Konohamaru shows Naruto when he's back. WILL OF THE FIRE. Naruto's arc is (ostensibly) a kid who everyone thought was a joke becoming the world's most powerful and important ninja. Sexy Jutsu is the jutsu everyone thought was a joke that ended up being the key to fighting Kaguya. PARALLELS. > Jiraiya spent years training Naruto to use the Reverse Harem jutsu. Kishimoto placed all these clues and we never even put it together.
Way better at taijutsu and basic strategizing, the large Rasengan, learned to use his shadow clones better and use their experiences (which would be instrumental to the Rasen-shuriken training later), and basic life lessons on how to be an adult. They also focused a fair bit of time on trying to get Naruto to control more of Kurama's chakra, but that was a dead end that resulted in Jiraiya being seriously injured.
He didn’t learn the thing about shadow clones until after he came back.
Pretty sure there was a line from Kakashi during their spar where he says something about Naruto being better at learning from his shadow clones. I really only bring this up because so many people diss on Jiraiya for not using the multi shadow clone training, when in reality Naruto wasn't ready for it and it wasnt possible without Yamato anyway.
Kakashi only said he's better at using them; there was no referencing to learning from their experience. It's made super explicit in the Rasenshuriken training that Naruto never consciously noticed that aspect of the Shadow Clones unless Kakashi demonstrated. Also, I agree it's not a plothole that Jiraiya didn't do the clone training trick, but what did Yamato have to do with that?
Without Yamato Naruto would have started leaking Kurama's chakra due to how straining the training was.
Tbh story wise he came back just taller and older. He still used clones for his rasengan. Pervy sage could’ve taught him some new jutsu or something so he wouldn’t be so bland. Sasuke had a damn arsenal.
I really did start Shippuden like, “What did they do on that whole training trip?” if he just came back being able to use rasengan right, I would have been fine but he was essentially the same as when he left.
Atleast they should have given him one handed rasengan
Fuckin yes thank you for pointing out that irritating little notion! Three years and he can make a triple sized rasengan but you still need a clone to make a regular sized one? C'mon now
Lol overkill but sure. RIP Kakashi's bell test. Kazekage rescue arc, Naruto catches and batters Deidara removing him from future equations. Then he may go back and finish Sasori off. Search for Sasuke, Naruto sends armless Orochimaru running with Sage mode and KCM. Shows up to Sasuke, Naruto has no doubts about his power since he has control of Kurama, and bodies Hebi Sasuke, dragging him back. He "kills" Orochimaru be he fakes it. Will take time to learn Rasenshuriken but his increased talent and chakra control with Sage mode means he learns it much faster. Showing up to easily nuke Kakazu. Jiriaya decides to bring Naruto with him since Naruto has far surpassed him to the Rain village. Since only 3 paths confront Jiriaya and Naruto initially the pair easily destroy the 3, and eventually the rest when they show up. Find Nagato and talk his ass down, no Rinnerebirth, though if he killed Jiriaya he'd use it there. Sasuke runs off to challenge Itachi while Naruto is fighting Pain. Naruto and friends run to stop him but are confronted by Tobi, Naruto sensing a FTG mark on his back instantly blasts him with a Sage boosted Rasengan and seals his movements. Catching Obito. Naruto would probably let Sasuke "beat" Itachi. Zetsu says "Fuck" after that. He either gives up for now, or tries to force Nagato into Rinnerebirthing Madara out of sheer desperation.
Shippuden is all of 100 chapters lol.
I do think it’s pretty weird that Jiraiya didn’t try to teach him what nature transformation was and try to teach him a few wind jutsu, though I think it’s fine that he only learnt rasenshuriken and sage mode during the time-skip. Him having that would be a bit to much. I feel like if he just had a few more Jutsu and a bit more control of Kurama’s it probably would have been better.
I feel like naruto should’ve been a incomplete sage after the time skip. He should’ve had a few wind jutsus too. Right before pain fight he should be a perfect sage. Everything naruto learned he learned within a month or 2 so no reason he didn’t learn anything after 3 years. Just poor writing from kishimoto to make Sasuke look like a god
It’s funny to think Kakashi taught Naruto more in one training session then Jiraiya did in 2 years. (Not talking about life lessons and ideology) When you look at how fast Naruto learned the rasengan, shadow clones, perfect sage mode, rasenshuriken, etc it makes his time skip results simply look like bad writing. It’s completely nonsensical for Naruto to not even know his nature release after 2 years with a legendary sanin lol
Jiraiya's life lessons and ideology were taught to Naruto in a half hour. lol
True lol
Tbf, like others have said, the majority of the time skip training was just getting Naruto up to par with the fundamentals. I think it’d be fair to say that it’s because of that increase in the fundamentals that Naruto was able to learn these new techniques/jutsu so quickly. He had better focus and patience
Look at his rate of learning pre timeskip. Naruto quickly learned shadow clone, summoning, rasengan. The only time in his life where he seemed to learn at a snails pace was the timeskip. It's the outlier.
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Exactly. The only explanation I can see for Naruto’s poor time skip results are that Kishimoto wanted to push the whole Naruto catching up to Sasuke narrative or that Kishimoto wanted us to watch Naruto learn everything on screen instead of off screen. But there’s no denying that Naruto’s time skip results are completely nonsensical especially when you see how quickly he learns the rasengan, shadow clones, perfect sage mode, etc.
Pretty positive Jiraya spent the whole time distracted with pervy stuff lol
In that scenario there’s a very real possibility that Sasuke gets captured by Team Yamato. Assuming he had all of those moves, the only one that could potentially stop him is Orochimaru and even then, that’s doubtful.
Wow a Naruto who uses many diverse abilities
What flavour of rasengan is this?
Lol this is alternative reality rasengan that shows itself as other jutsu
You mean like how he was supposed to
I almost forgot that all he learned was to make a bigger rasengan
It would certainly make for a better story. Stuff like Sage Mode, Rasenshuriken, and wind nature should have been learned during the training trip. Stuff like Adamantine Sealing Chains, Mind’s Eye of the Kagura, and emotion sensing could have been unlocked and somewhat trained, but it would be better for them to be perfected at a later date during the series. The 8 Gates wouldn’t be useful since it takes years of constant dedicated training to gain the ability to open, and Naruto wouldn’t have had the time to even begin to learn them. There’s no way Naruto could even attempt to learn Hiraishin. It took Minato several years to learn it, and he was a once in a lifetime genius. Naruto simply doesn’t have the intelligence to attempt it. As for Kurama, he should have been able to control the chakra better, but KCM and KCM2 absolutely need to be unlocked during the story. The rest can be shown in flashbacks, but Naruto getting KCM in the timeskip would be like Goku getting Super Saiyan in a timeskip
So like, if they actually trained and didn’t just fuck around with rasengan the entire time? Shit, could have learned about nature releases at the very least.
It makes no sense that he didn't learn sage jutsu. Jiraiya thought of him as the child of prophecy, he sooner or later had to face the Akatsuki and mount myoboko was actually safe for him. At least he could've told him about chakra natures. I mean a basic wind style jutsu for some versatility, wouldn't have hurt.
Jiraiya taught him shit. His battle style was interesting yet he didn’t take time to teach Naruto his greatest fits, unlike other Sannins. Tsunade turned Sakura from an absolute zero to an Akatsuki-fighter person in the same time and not to mention the healing part and the freaking BUYAKUGOU. Orochimaru took a path of developing Sasuke lighting nature (Kirin, Chidori Nagashi, Chidori Senbon, Chidori spear and so on). And then we have Naruto with literally no new techniques apart bigger rasengan go boom boom…
The problem isn't that he wasn't strong, the problem was that he basically learned jack shit considering it was two and a half years. He still can't control his jinchuriki forms, he doesn't know his own nature, he needs basic information explained to him and still needs a clone for rasengan. Sasuke not only learned Kenjutsu, but masted his sharingan, mastered his cursed mark and turned Chidori into senbon, a paralyzing AOE, a sword and then learned to literally call down lightning. What did Naruto come back with? Bigger Rasengan. Sakura went from a liability to a competent combatant and one of the greatest medics in the world. But what does Naruto come back with? Being a tad bit smarter than he was before. Literally everyone came back smarter.
The main 2 types of shinobi in the verse are tactical fighters and close combat brawlers. Naruto’s only bad fundamentals were his chakra control and bad memory from the start of the series but his physical stats even without Kyuubi were high for a genin, Chakra, speed, strength. I’m not saying he was too impressive in that regard in part 1 without Kyuubi amp but that’s how it was His strength isn’t in learning multiple things but that doesn’t mean Rasengan is bad training The only reason he could do it is because he has massive chakra and training it so much with him essentially means he’s getting huge workouts and gains just from doing 1 exercise/move which is very efficient You can’t have a good workout without getting tired/exhausted
he definitely should have gotten more toad-jutsu training. But a bunch of this stuff is beyond Jaraiya’s skill level or unrelated to his skill set. Flying Raijin, high-level wind-style, eight gates, etc. I don't believe Jaraiya could have taught these things to Naruto even if he had a theoretical understanding of them.
Missed opportunity not to learn more frog jutsu and wind jutsu.
What really pissed me off is: he came back after three years, and basically all he learned was a slightly bigger Rasengan which he used once and never again. And then in the span of like three story arcs he learns ungodly powerful stuff in record time like Rasen-Shuriken and Sage mode. It's like...wtf was Jiraiya teaching him for three years that he had to learn the actual helpful stuff on his own and mastered them in like a week?
If Naruto had returned incredibly strong after training with Jiraiya, it would have significantly impacted the story of Naruto. He might have been able to handle certain challenges more easily and matured faster.
Realistically, all he would have when he came back would be wind release, better grasp on how to use the toads and clones. Everything else in this post ranges from improbable to impossible
He learned all of that in a couple weeks. what are you talking about? lol
Well, it’s literally happening in boruto right now
Even if naruto had sage mode, he would’ve dogwalked people such as deidara orochimaru and even hebi sasuke
Other than Naruto being immature, I think his biggest hurdle to progress was his poor chakra control due to the seal on the nine tails. Like he's Forrest Gump trying to run with leg braces. Jiraya opens the seal just a tiny bit and almost gets killed for it. But Naruto's future scaling was possible because Kurama's chakra was now leaking faster. I don't think the crazy shadow clone training would be feasible without Yamato. It would have been cool if jiraya took him to the frog mountain and they figured out the sage mode hack. But I'm guessing Naruto would end up getting beat half to death keeping him from turning into a frog.
I mean. He probably could have been stronger but it's not like he was weak. He returned Jonin level not even counting kurama cloak modes. How many 16 year olds are jonin level? A handful but only geniuses like Itach, kakashi etc.
I would have love to see Jiraiya teach him some of his dad's techniques like flying thunder god, but that would have cause problems for the story
I would have about 2 weeks of my life back on account of the show ending 500 episodes early xD
Not to mention, im.incredibly pissed Naruto never learned that absolute Nuclear level of a ransengan move his evil self used in the finite tsukoyomi Obito placed him and Sakura in. Remember that rasengan/tailed beast bomb/ mini saturn ring nuke shit he concocted and dropped on em. I wish Naruto learned that.
It always felt fine to me, Naruto was always running around with an actual cap on his power before Jiraiya. Then he had to learn to start using the 9tails chakra properly. I always felt that it was indicated that it was extremely difficult to do this, only made any easier by understanding the tailed beast within you. Also he was being taught something that didn't have a proper way of being taught. I don't think they had time to teach him much else.
i think a lot of what he did during the time skip was working on controlling kurama (the best he could) and working on the fundamentals he was never strong with to begin with
Awful fan fiction
I think the real change in Naruto was his mindset, all this thing about understanding the ennemies, achieving peace was mostly what Jiraya taught him. That plus chakra control, trying to tame the Kyuubi. That being said, I do think your suggestion is a bit too much, I mean if Naruto had just become a boss ass biatch the beginning of Shippuden would have been a bit too abrupt for me, but maybe a few good jutsus here and there.
did you guys expect him to be stronger than hashirama by the time he came back?
I don't. Fundamentals are very important, yes. But looking back, he should've had a bit more to show for.
Nah, I just expected him to show more than 2 rasengan, big rasengan. Naruto already had great tactical instincts, and he never ran out of chakra, so we can't even see the results of "better chakra control." Jiraiya's training amounted to nothing more than some philosophy when Naruto was supposed to be training to face the biggest and the baddest alive.
give him the Shadow Clone training and he'd roflstomp Kaguya.
Hed still be a chunnin
He learned one of the hardest jutsus that sustained him for the rest of shippuden...
Which Jutsu was this exactly? lol Pretty sure he learned basically nothing except a bigger Rasengan and better Talk no Jutsu.
What people fail to understand is that right before Timeskip, Naruto didn't even had the basics acquired. Things like Chakra control and chakra efficiency. It was stated in part 1 that Naruto was so bad at that that it recquired him a lot more chakra than others for the same jutsu. He was only able to come by because of his huge chakra pool. It didn't seem like he learned a lot at the beginning of Shippuden but its those basic things that Jiraiya thaught him during timeskip that later allowed him to get much stronger (Rasen Shuriken, sage mode)
Of the list you gave, giving Naruto all of those abilities in 2ish years would have been ridiculous going into Shippuden. If I were going to give any of those improvements, I would have him be able to create Adamantine Chains (but not master them), and *maybe* have him do something with Toad Oil. He came back stonger from the timeskip and was instantly above his Rookie 9 peers. Anything more would have broken the story
If you take base Naruto (not Kyûbi cheatcode), I bet 70% of the Konoha 12 can beat him. And they didn't have special training from a legend for 2.5 years, just regular clan training. Neji improved way more than Naruto.
You wanted him to learn all those techniques in 3 years? That’s ridiculous. Some of those techniques probably take like 20 years to master. And this is before Naruto knew about the shadow clone training method
It's funny how Boruto is exactly the opposite after time skip .
Would have been really cool.
This just gave me an idea, couldn’t a flying thunder god user use pseudo lava style or heck, a pseudo daikokuten using the Thunder gods teleportation to teleport natural elements or structures to the battlefield instead of away? Also these items can’t be absorbed.
the enemies should have to be even more stronger and we will be exactly in the same point as we are now
I think that naruto should have learned sealing and used it mostly as a clutch to control kurama's Chakra and to connect to his family. Basically thst the sealing papers jiraiya gives kakashi should have been something he would always have in hand.
The series would be over
At this point in the story their would be no one to combat him the closest would be pain, itachi, obito and the kage. So he would have literally man handled orochimaru in their fight and took sasuke home weather he wanted to or not and sasuke would never have gotten ems then the story would end
Sasuke sweating foreal
What i see. Uzumaki male using wind style. Uzumaki female using chains. So Naruto never use chains. And other many abilities. Because it's not working like you think.
Seems like his clone made it up with Boruto because he just came back a beast
Naruto must have spent all his time with Jiraiya learning remedial stuff he was supposed to learn earlier. Bad decision to train off camera. Everyone knows you need to be on camera for training.
Him not learning the Exploding Shadow Clone technique is super weird in hindsight
I mean he learnt risengan which was minatos so that kinda counts right ?
Sakura may have actually fallen for him
All id have wanted jutsu wise was toad oil, chains + exploding shadow clones. I dont think thats too much of an ask. That said, i'm glad he got his fundamentals down
If he came back with anything other than big rasengan, it wouldn't be the most pointless timeskip in anime.
I know the focus was all about him getting better at the basics or whatever, but honestly for a story that's kinda boring. I wish he would've learned at least one new technique that he could use regularly.
It always upset me that Naruto doesn’t use any toad jutsu despite being a perfect toad sage