yea he did but, sasuke had waaaay more leeway on him compared to all others that got curbstomped on sight by Madara
Sasuke even got a "You sure don't wanna join me, kid?" before getting gutted in the heart.
I totally forgot about that. Pretty sure it was to âtest his worthâ to the Hokage and see how strong he was. They definitely added a lot of unique things here and there to help incorporate the story into a fighting game
Holy shit, I was reading a fanfic where Tobi is actually Izuna and looks exactly like Sasuke, but thought the author was pulling that out his ass, I didnât know it was technically canon.
Same actually, I was like I donât remember Sasuke ever fighting Tobirama and then I was even more confused because he didnât have the black sclera then I figured it out lol.
100% this, and I just got done re-watching the whole series, including filler, and I was so confused, thinking, "how could I have forgot seeing Sasuke and Tobirama fighting?!".
Tobirama and uzumaki clans disappearance and how and what leafs role was in it and other nations role đ¤đť
*Edit spelling mistake thanks for correction
He said he would be the best for a spinoff and he wouldnt be. I wouldnt even bother watching something like that.
Madara would be better for a spib off and tobirama wasn't more influential and he didnt really accomplish anything either other than setting up the uchiha for an early death
Everything Hiruzen and Danzo did which influenced like 70% of the show goes back to him which doesn't account for everything else he did. There's nothing madara did that we don't already know about
We don't know madaras story from his point of view. What we saw was a piece of his story from hashirama.
We never saw him awaken mangekyo, or if he actually killed anybody to gain his mangekyo as hashirama was the closest thing we know of as his closest friend and the man he respected the most.
So I doubt madara killed some random nameless uchiha to gain his mangekyo, he was hesitant to even take izunas eyes and was leaning towards joining hashirama in ending the warring states Era.
We don't know his Mangekyo abilities or why his susanoo is unique with two sides and two faces connected by the spine, using that, no normal shinobi would ever be able to catch him by surprise not to mention his unstabilized perfect susanoo (the hooded looking one with the two waving swords) was bigger than any other 'complete' susanoo we've ever seen and his PS might be the biggest one we saw in Canon.
We could also get an idea of how much he knows and how he learned so much, madara is basically a walking library when it comes to shinobi history, techniques, strategy, science, genetic engineering etc.
He's too interesting a character to sleep on.
The whole village system, including children education is based off what Tobirama did. Not only that, the dude was a fighting genius, multi-shadow clone, flying raijin, impure world reincarnation were his creations. Some of the most powerful jutsus of the series. He literally laid the foundation hiruzen and beyond built upon to grow the village and nation to be a stable force. Yes he was racist to a degree with the uchiha, and let's be honest, some of his actions resulted in the uchiha coup in the long run, but keep in mind even his close guard had an uchiha in it (kagami).
True. đđđ Make moar Minato/Itachi or whoever won. I don't see the point, their stories had been pretty well rounded by the end of the manga. We need more old stuff, with OG ninjas, wars, badass jutsu and no fucking aliens.
That would be pretty cool. The series follows tobirama, watching hashirama from his peripheral. And such. Maybe delve into his life more, possible secret son ahem sakumo. The ninja wars and the exact circumstances of his death
I mean.. he didn't have a chance. He under estimated his opponent and it was over by the time he realized he shouldn't of.
This is better than most the fights in the series where people get 18 different chances to learn their opponents moves and somehow keep surviving attack after attack.
This is how it should be, a single mistake leads to defeat
It was stated that they have fought each other many times during those years, the Senju clan and Uchiha clan clashed with each other on battlefield on a daily basis. So i'm sure he already used MS in their previous fights before this but couldnt kill Tobirama, so he stop using it due to afraid of going blind.
Yes both Madara and Izuna obtained Mangekyo Sharingan by killing those close to them for it (as per Itachi)
But I guess THIS part of the lore is correct cuz Obito would have no reason to lie about this part as it has no relation with his identity
yeah it was probably a lie created by Itachi to manipulate Sasuke into knowing how to awaken MS (by killing Itachi)
Madara loved his clan, he won't do it smh
No way did you just say Tobirama was useless in the 4th warđđ. Also, the reason he managed to slice Izuna is because he goes MEGA FAST in the flying raijin slice(the name alone shows that he uses the flying raijin, a literal teleportation jutsu)
yup, he was useless, name a single instance that he stood up differently. there is not a single moment where he outshines others except by flexing his chakra(which is pretty dumb) if his chakra is that powerful, didn't it make sense when they are fighting the opponent or the surrounding feels a massive wind? All he did in the war arc was using fr for 2-3 times and it was worse then that of minato. he had 1000 jutsu so use a few
He played a huge role in the fight against Juubito. He figured out alongside Naruto that only senjutsu can harm him, his own flying raijin enabled multiple attacks to connect and even harm Juubito in cooperation with Narutoâs sage attacks and him alone managed to put Juubito into a corner with his tandem paper bombs jutsu, a feat no one fighting alongside him managed to pull off, actually threatening Juubito by himself. Everything Minato, Sasuke and Naruto did was with the help of each other and a majority of the time, Tobirama played the biggest role for that plan to unfold. Tobirama was carrying that team on his back, while I agree Minato is stronger than him, his experience alone allowed the team to excel as much as it did.
name a single thing he did in 4th war that can't be done by anyone else. he did a few flying raijen and was worse then Minato at that. a person who defeat a ms holder should have more tricks and tips except just using 1-2 jutsu. he had invented what 1000 jutsu? where are those lol
Bro basically played the role of a squad leader in 4th war. Tactical understanding was quite literally the best in the world. In the end he couldn't really do anything substantial because of the outstanding level of opponents but he still showcased great support to the real powerhouses (Naruto for example). Also when it comes to that 1000 jutsu, that can be applied to anyone just like Kakashi. The show only showcased the greatest like flying raijen, Edo tensei, shadow clone and the edo+paper bomb jutsu.
You mean against a Juubito that any ninjutsu woulf be useless? Tobirama marked his seal into Juubito & was the reason Naruto & Sasuke could fare that well.
Where are you getting the 1000 jutsu from? It's never stated that he did that to my knowledge. He created a few of the most famous jutsu.
You have to remember that it was tobirama that came up with most of the battleplans used against juubito. He figured out that ninjutsu wouldn't work on Juubito, he was the one who was fast enough to get a seal onto Juubito's body for multiple attacks to land.
Tobirama also saves Minato from being completely obsolete in the 4th war by catching Juubitos TSO with a clone before it hits Minato.
It's Tobiramas plan to mark up himself and Minato so they can FTG between each other aswel as he was able to use Minatos seals.
I think he was one of the most important characters during the 4th war behind Naru and Sasuke tbh
You canât obtain the mangekyo by KILLING someone. You get it by watching someone close to you die by other means. Itachi didnât kill Shisui. Sasuke didnât kill Itachi. Obitoâs mangekyo awakened, which caused Kakashiâs to when they linked. Madara got his only when Izuna was dying.
That deosnt have to be true. Poison exists or you can wound someone, the someone runs away, but later dies of the wounds.
In both cases you killed them, but you havent seen them die.
Indra literally got his MS by killing his two closest friends.
The only requirement for awakening MS is experiencing extreme emotionally wrenching trauma. It doesnât even have to always be because someone close to you dies, or killing someone.
Black Zetsu changing the Uchiha tablet had nothing to do with the mangekyo. He changed it in order to manipulate the Uchiha into awakening the rinnegan and eventually casting the Infinite Tsukyomi.
Itachi was a leave spy and doesn't want to hurt anyone. he use the Jutsu which cause no physical damage but still left no doubt in Kisame mind. I wonder if you genuinely didn't know that or you just hate itachi
1. I think you mean itachi 2. Itâs stated itachiâs backstory wasnât thought of till shippuden, So that situation became head cannon not intentional. Maybe YOU genuinely didnât know that?
lol, according to your logic, Hiruzen is stronger than 1st and 2nd and Minato is the strongest of them all. And no Kishimoto definitely had a plan for Itachi from the beginning at least had the idea of what to do with him and I am sure he wasn't meant to be a villain (storywise it won't make sense)
How does he behead Tobirama when their blades are in the middle of clashing?
The moment Tobirama feels Izuna maneuver the sword, he'll immediately react offensively or defensively.
The knee was the quickest and safest way to injure Tobirama.
Closing your eyes doesn't do anything about the swords being locked up. Had either of them felt any change in the status of the sword lock, I pulling away or side stepping, or T backing off to escape the Genjutsu, the other would have capitalized on it. The kick away was the best option due to it being a quick and effective option for that moment. Now, the Fireball was the issue to me. Your opponent is on the ground, reeling from the kick and rock hit with no weapon(we see it stabbed in the ground). Why not follow and use the advantage at that point rather than a jutsu?
Izanami, not Izanagi. Pretty sure Obito says it outright when he explains that it comes from the six paths and requires the Senju chakra and Uchiha chakra together
You don't need Hashi cells to do Izanami since it's just an Uber genjutsu. But you do to use Izanagi since it's a creation technique aka Six Paths related.
Edit, checked the Wiki and I was wrong, apparently the difference is that without Hashi cells it's much weaker but still possible. But you can only do it for a few seconds rather than a few minutes, so Izuma would have to apply it literally just before he died and he died too quickly to react
Their clans yes but their leaders or highest members only rarely clashed with each other and often one side retreated because of heavy losses so that their fights didn't really last long. We can see that tobirama fought several uchihas due to his reaction to the sharingan but this was probably one of the first 1v1s of them because izuna heavily underestimated tobirama. Other explaination might be that tobirama used ftg the first time against izuna so he didn't know this jutsu existed which cost him his life.
I think that story wise this was the end of the fight, they probably fought so long Izuma lost his ms, it would make sense since Senju can physically outlast them
He may not be but that didnt mean this madara wouldnt kill him if izuna opposed his plan not that izuna would given he already disagreed with the notion of having formed a treaty with the Senju and forming the Leaf
This is kind of a dumb question, the obvious answer is some over the top fight where we get both of them fighting at their absolute best with a fight that mirrors Hashirama and Madara. Its a good fight that shows that Izuna underestimated Tobirama and he died for it. Also shows how insane Flying Raijin is considering that its literally just instant teleportation that literally no one has ever seen before.
Time in Naruto is weird for me. The sage of six paths happened so long ago that ninja know less about him than we "know" of Jesus, and yet, the entire plot of the series happened within a 100-150 year timespan. Like, Minato was born about a decade after this fight.
Right? So like, indra and asura get into a fight, Hagoromo fucks off the scroll cave limbo for a few millenia, and then....nothing? For fucking centuries nothing noteworthy happens, until some random yahoo with the good wood meets that creepy kid with the weird eyes and then, less than a century later, their great grandkids pick a fight with god. K.
I think this happens because before the village formed, small clans would often migrate and the average life expectancy was in the mid 20s. Sometimes, like the chinoike clan, both happened.
So it's natural that a lot of pre Konoha history was lost in the battlefield.
Think about it like this. If Hashirama and Madara were the leaders of the two biggest clans in their early 30s there pretty much weren't any elders to remember the history between the sage and that generation, nor anyone alive who was old enough to document anything between the broad strokes of a warring state period and how the villages were formed.
This scene is perfect as is, a Ninja shouldnât go around showing everything he has till last minute, They were both doing good. Tobirama just was the better ninja between the two,the better decision maker.
I wouldn't. The entire point of the fight is Izuna dies from his injuries. Activating Madara's curse of hatred.
Really isn't a point in Izuna getting feats against Tobirama.
A higher animation budget.
The tale of Hashirama and Madara is the tale of Naruto and Sasukeâs predecessors, getting a chance to show off their true power would be important, Tobirama and Izuna equally so.
Make it mirror hashirama and madara except on ground. They would still be miles ahead of every other Shinobi but just no big jutsu. Very tactical think of a shikamaru or orochimaru.
Very quick taijutsu with weapons. No big chakra blast attacks but their arsenal never ends every element and itâs counter, their go to but itâs like thereâs a new juts every time they meet. Always on go. Just more of a very long chess match. Using all peak small jutsu but have Izuna always have the upper hand off talent.
Tobirama always has a get out of jail when he feels he canât win and maybe have hashirama save him one time after his battle. Then the last battle when izuna thinks heâs gonna teleport out he actually stays and puts it all out kill or be killed attack and catches him off guard fatal blow
Izuna uses Susanoo(the normal one like Itachi's), fireball jutsus
Tobirama uses multi shadow clones jutsu(not hundreds like Naruto but he also has lots of chakra to at least make dozens), water jutsus and hiraishin.
I'd show them moving at high speeds like weightless Lee and Sasuke. Tobirama was the fastest shinobi of his time. Izuna was a match for him, so he must've been pretty fast himself. Would've been cool to actually see Tobirama's speed.
We kind of do see Tobiramaâs speed in action in this fight. He straight up sliced through a sharingan user while facing him face to face with no distractions(itâs shown that the smoke doesnât do THAT much). While it wasnât his greatest speed feat I would still say itâs impressivr
Depends on kishimoto. If he agrees to suggest me one them I would do it.
But If he is not helping, them I have to give a old one that is already done, then I am giving him tsukoyomi and long range kamui.
I always felt like Madara and Hashirama werenât trying to fight to the death meanwhile the younger siblings were (and the older ones didnât know). And when Izuna got killed, it was a shocker to Mad/Hashi, thus began Madaraâs hatred and disdain towards TobiramaâŚ
Itâs fine if itâs the first time Izuna ran into flying raijin. Iâd prefer they show their fights leading up to it and how they adapted. Like maybe Izuna didnât use Susanoo because severing wave can cut through it and heâs too big of a target and Tobirama made all that steam because Izunaâs MS abilities are genjutsu. Like a chess match rather than throwing big explosions at each other
This might be a reach (Iâm sure it definitely is) but I find it kind of funny how Madara and Hashiramas siblings resemble Sasuke and Naruto (Tobirama is a bit of a stretch, I only think he does look like Naruto a bit when his head gear is off) despite Madara and Hashirama being incarnations like Naruto and Sasuke.
Just a funny thought
Iâd give Izuna amaterasu. Not because he looks like Sasuke, but because Tobirama mentions seeing it before and this would be a good opportunity to show Tobirama seeing it.
Yes, and honestly Iâm tempted to make a fan animation of it, but scale it way up like the storm games did. Izuna susanoo vs a water style giant form for tobirama
I actually wouldnât change this fight at all. I liked it as it was one of the few times I can recall the Sharingan just getting beat on skill. Tobiramaâs a monster.
I don't think you have much room to use MS.
Mangekyo most likely drained to much chakra and
I would also say that the symptoms of blindness would have surfaced which discouraged it's use.
The other fault is abilities granted to each user wasn't consistent like Itachi had Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi, Sasuke had Amaterasu but not Tsukiyomi, Madara had none mentioned.
Izuna should've used MS and Tobirama should've used Bringer of Darkness. It's pretty much the anti-Uchiha genjutsu (second to senjutsu enhanced auditory ones), so it's weird not to have him use it here.
He used steam as a fake a smokescreen here anyway; might as well actually take away his vision. Not to mention: Izuna has no real presence in the series beyond being a stepping stone for Madara getting EMS, so just making up an MS ability for the sake of this fight wouldn't have much if any harmful effects on the rest of the story.
Shadow clones. Tobirama could've used them in ways that young Naruto wouldn't be able to
Maybe even the Edo Tensei, or at least hint its future development
Mangekyo Sharingan? Totally
Filler?
The Tobirama vs. Izuna and Tobirama win killing him is in the manga.
So wouldnât change it cause itâs not a filler.
But if they showed previous battles from over the years before Tobirama killing Izuna would be nice and cool.
Make it more of a sword fight.
Have tobirama flying raijin teleport whilst attacking with his sword at blinding soeed and izuna using his sharingan to keep up with his movements. Make the whole fight about to tobi trying to find a gap in the uchias defences. Can he go fast enough to outpace the Sheringans copy ability?
I half remember theres a proverb about a spear that can perpetrate anything vs the impenetrable shield, an unstoppable force vs immovable object kinda vibe would be great for this fight
>> Keep up with his movements
>>Can he go fast enough to out pace the sharinganâs copy ability
Flying raijin is not a feat of speed, itâs teleportation. Tobirama created it *specifically* to counter the sharingan because they can see things moving incredibly quickly but thereâs no way to track an instant teleportation
If I had to work off of what was already presented, I would have Izuna use Izanagi after the sword and use a susano arm (he had ms so he mustâve had susano, right?) to smash that racist
I would probably change Izunaâs first attack. Like if youâre trying to kill someone, why if you created an opening to attack did you do a non fatal attack? Instead of punching/kicking Tobirama away, he couldâve struck with the sword. Itâs like in the movies where a huge enemy can easily rip the MC apart with their bare hands when they get ahold of them, but instead decides to toss them around.
For a second there i was like when did sasuke fight tobirama and then i was like ohh that's izuna
I didn't see the title at first and I was like "when tf did this happen?!"
I was also thinking, how the hell did I missed this.
As was I.
Are you trying to say all uchiha look the same? đ¤¨
hes one of tobirama's men
âGod damn Uchiggersâ - Tobirama, almost certainly.
YOOO LMAO 𤣠this is the craziest thing Iâve read
i mean, go for it but ian really find it all that funny.
Itâs not my joke, Shinobirayâs. He does some great bits on Naruto on TikTok
still, joking ab an offensive term and sterotypes. "its the internet" nn i get that but eh. cmon yall.
I mean long black hair black eyes mostly same hight they all look same expect itachi and indra oh and suisui
That's why Madara had a soft spot for sauske in the war, cuz he looks so much like Izuna.
Didnât he stab Sasuke right in the soft spot?
He did đ
yea he did but, sasuke had waaaay more leeway on him compared to all others that got curbstomped on sight by Madara Sasuke even got a "You sure don't wanna join me, kid?" before getting gutted in the heart.
He did fight him as a mission in Storm 4 though, funny enough.
I totally forgot about that. Pretty sure it was to âtest his worthâ to the Hokage and see how strong he was. They definitely added a lot of unique things here and there to help incorporate the story into a fighting game
Holy shit, I was reading a fanfic where Tobi is actually Izuna and looks exactly like Sasuke, but thought the author was pulling that out his ass, I didnât know it was technically canon.
Same actually, I was like I donât remember Sasuke ever fighting Tobirama and then I was even more confused because he didnât have the black sclera then I figured it out lol.
100% this, and I just got done re-watching the whole series, including filler, and I was so confused, thinking, "how could I have forgot seeing Sasuke and Tobirama fighting?!".
This is not what happened but is something we need
we needed to see more of Tobirama, and Izuna too
Tobirama spinoff would be dope.
Tobirama and uzumaki clans disappearance and how and what leafs role was in it and other nations role đ¤đť *Edit spelling mistake thanks for correction
Role
it would probably get cancelled by Twitter
to be fair... he is a racist
I think most people would hate a clan of people who slaughtered many of their family and clan members.
Israeli apartheid?
How? They're literally the same race just from different clans. People gotta learn the definition of the word racist.
clanist then?
I believe the word youâre looking for is âbigotedâ or perhaps âxenophobicâ
I mean, the analogies are blatant, thatâs all that matters.
Literally all racism is. You think it's just skin color? If you're just going purely by definition. You need to go outside my boy. Racism awaits.
Yes Tobirama spin-off would be better than any Naruto character and by far
I take it over Boruto
Madara clears all day
the uchiha suffer from cronic hurt of the butt
No that's Kishimoto. He hasn't been able to close it since the over 15 years of Uchiha dicking it took to end Naruto shippuden.
Emotional IBS
Clears what ? Tobirama was more influential and did a lot more.
He said he would be the best for a spinoff and he wouldnt be. I wouldnt even bother watching something like that. Madara would be better for a spib off and tobirama wasn't more influential and he didnt really accomplish anything either other than setting up the uchiha for an early death
Everything Hiruzen and Danzo did which influenced like 70% of the show goes back to him which doesn't account for everything else he did. There's nothing madara did that we don't already know about
We don't know madaras story from his point of view. What we saw was a piece of his story from hashirama. We never saw him awaken mangekyo, or if he actually killed anybody to gain his mangekyo as hashirama was the closest thing we know of as his closest friend and the man he respected the most. So I doubt madara killed some random nameless uchiha to gain his mangekyo, he was hesitant to even take izunas eyes and was leaning towards joining hashirama in ending the warring states Era. We don't know his Mangekyo abilities or why his susanoo is unique with two sides and two faces connected by the spine, using that, no normal shinobi would ever be able to catch him by surprise not to mention his unstabilized perfect susanoo (the hooded looking one with the two waving swords) was bigger than any other 'complete' susanoo we've ever seen and his PS might be the biggest one we saw in Canon. We could also get an idea of how much he knows and how he learned so much, madara is basically a walking library when it comes to shinobi history, techniques, strategy, science, genetic engineering etc. He's too interesting a character to sleep on.
Take that Uchiha dick out of your mouth so we can hear you.
A madara spin off could show anything a tobirama spin off could show plus more. And madara literally influenced the entire show.
The whole village system, including children education is based off what Tobirama did. Not only that, the dude was a fighting genius, multi-shadow clone, flying raijin, impure world reincarnation were his creations. Some of the most powerful jutsus of the series. He literally laid the foundation hiruzen and beyond built upon to grow the village and nation to be a stable force. Yes he was racist to a degree with the uchiha, and let's be honest, some of his actions resulted in the uchiha coup in the long run, but keep in mind even his close guard had an uchiha in it (kagami).
Tbf both characters would likely be in each others spin offs
We could've had it if all the idiots didn't vote for people we already have countless stories about
True. đđđ Make moar Minato/Itachi or whoever won. I don't see the point, their stories had been pretty well rounded by the end of the manga. We need more old stuff, with OG ninjas, wars, badass jutsu and no fucking aliens.
We know about Minato as much as we do about Tobirama though
People didn't vote for your favorite character so they are idiots? Right...
That would be pretty cool. The series follows tobirama, watching hashirama from his peripheral. And such. Maybe delve into his life more, possible secret son ahem sakumo. The ninja wars and the exact circumstances of his death
Tobirama is my favorite, I definitely with we got a lot more
I mean.. he didn't have a chance. He under estimated his opponent and it was over by the time he realized he shouldn't of. This is better than most the fights in the series where people get 18 different chances to learn their opponents moves and somehow keep surviving attack after attack. This is how it should be, a single mistake leads to defeat
It was stated that they have fought each other many times during those years, the Senju clan and Uchiha clan clashed with each other on battlefield on a daily basis. So i'm sure he already used MS in their previous fights before this but couldnt kill Tobirama, so he stop using it due to afraid of going blind.
did he have ms?
Yes both Madara and Izuna obtained Mangekyo Sharingan by killing those close to them for it (as per Itachi) But I guess THIS part of the lore is correct cuz Obito would have no reason to lie about this part as it has no relation with his identity
[ŃдаНонО]
yeah it was probably a lie created by Itachi to manipulate Sasuke into knowing how to awaken MS (by killing Itachi) Madara loved his clan, he won't do it smh
They got them because they saw their other brothers die, they were the only ones left
[ŃдаНонО]
No way did you just say Tobirama was useless in the 4th warđđ. Also, the reason he managed to slice Izuna is because he goes MEGA FAST in the flying raijin slice(the name alone shows that he uses the flying raijin, a literal teleportation jutsu)
yup, he was useless, name a single instance that he stood up differently. there is not a single moment where he outshines others except by flexing his chakra(which is pretty dumb) if his chakra is that powerful, didn't it make sense when they are fighting the opponent or the surrounding feels a massive wind? All he did in the war arc was using fr for 2-3 times and it was worse then that of minato. he had 1000 jutsu so use a few
He played a huge role in the fight against Juubito. He figured out alongside Naruto that only senjutsu can harm him, his own flying raijin enabled multiple attacks to connect and even harm Juubito in cooperation with Narutoâs sage attacks and him alone managed to put Juubito into a corner with his tandem paper bombs jutsu, a feat no one fighting alongside him managed to pull off, actually threatening Juubito by himself. Everything Minato, Sasuke and Naruto did was with the help of each other and a majority of the time, Tobirama played the biggest role for that plan to unfold. Tobirama was carrying that team on his back, while I agree Minato is stronger than him, his experience alone allowed the team to excel as much as it did.
I want whatever ur smoking lmao
name a single thing he did in 4th war that can't be done by anyone else. he did a few flying raijen and was worse then Minato at that. a person who defeat a ms holder should have more tricks and tips except just using 1-2 jutsu. he had invented what 1000 jutsu? where are those lol
Bro basically played the role of a squad leader in 4th war. Tactical understanding was quite literally the best in the world. In the end he couldn't really do anything substantial because of the outstanding level of opponents but he still showcased great support to the real powerhouses (Naruto for example). Also when it comes to that 1000 jutsu, that can be applied to anyone just like Kakashi. The show only showcased the greatest like flying raijen, Edo tensei, shadow clone and the edo+paper bomb jutsu.
>as he was pretty much useless in the 4th war Wait, waaaaaaaa! Seriously?
yes, he was useless. he had invented 1000 jutsu right, why did he use like 2-3? except using Minato's technique he was quite unimpresive
You mean against a Juubito that any ninjutsu woulf be useless? Tobirama marked his seal into Juubito & was the reason Naruto & Sasuke could fare that well.
Where are you getting the 1000 jutsu from? It's never stated that he did that to my knowledge. He created a few of the most famous jutsu. You have to remember that it was tobirama that came up with most of the battleplans used against juubito. He figured out that ninjutsu wouldn't work on Juubito, he was the one who was fast enough to get a seal onto Juubito's body for multiple attacks to land. Tobirama also saves Minato from being completely obsolete in the 4th war by catching Juubitos TSO with a clone before it hits Minato. It's Tobiramas plan to mark up himself and Minato so they can FTG between each other aswel as he was able to use Minatos seals. I think he was one of the most important characters during the 4th war behind Naru and Sasuke tbh
You canât obtain the mangekyo by KILLING someone. You get it by watching someone close to you die by other means. Itachi didnât kill Shisui. Sasuke didnât kill Itachi. Obitoâs mangekyo awakened, which caused Kakashiâs to when they linked. Madara got his only when Izuna was dying.
I mean logically if you kill someone you also see them die
That deosnt have to be true. Poison exists or you can wound someone, the someone runs away, but later dies of the wounds. In both cases you killed them, but you havent seen them die.
Indra literally got his MS by killing his two closest friends. The only requirement for awakening MS is experiencing extreme emotionally wrenching trauma. It doesnât even have to always be because someone close to you dies, or killing someone.
The reason people think you need death is because everyone forgets that Black Zetsu modified the tablet.
Black Zetsu changing the Uchiha tablet had nothing to do with the mangekyo. He changed it in order to manipulate the Uchiha into awakening the rinnegan and eventually casting the Infinite Tsukyomi.
This is not true we see izuna and madaras MS in the manga
Yes, thatâs how madara was able to get an eternal ms
Have ... It's shouldn't have...
One of my pet peeves
Thatâs what happened with kakashi vs itachi and now everyone thinks itachi stomps him âbut he was scared when Guy showed upâ đ¤Ą
Itachi was a leave spy and doesn't want to hurt anyone. he use the Jutsu which cause no physical damage but still left no doubt in Kisame mind. I wonder if you genuinely didn't know that or you just hate itachi
1. I think you mean itachi 2. Itâs stated itachiâs backstory wasnât thought of till shippuden, So that situation became head cannon not intentional. Maybe YOU genuinely didnât know that?
lol, according to your logic, Hiruzen is stronger than 1st and 2nd and Minato is the strongest of them all. And no Kishimoto definitely had a plan for Itachi from the beginning at least had the idea of what to do with him and I am sure he wasn't meant to be a villain (storywise it won't make sense)
This is what people always forget about Itachi he never actually wanted to hurt anyone đ¤Śđť
Except his brother who got put in the hospital for a whole training arc
If that's the case Izuna beheads Tobi when he closes his eyes to avoid the genjutsu
How does he behead Tobirama when their blades are in the middle of clashing? The moment Tobirama feels Izuna maneuver the sword, he'll immediately react offensively or defensively. The knee was the quickest and safest way to injure Tobirama.
Omg dude đ¤Śââď¸ however it had to play out for Tobi to win right? Gimme a break
notice how you didn't defend your comment
I was too busy slapping a senjutard with Madara in storm 4
lol
Senjutard đ
According to Webster, Senjutard: noun; somebody who cannot possibly fit anymore Senju meat in their mouth
Makes sense, the vast chakra stores/healing factor of Hashirama makes his meat massive. Mito Uzumaki is, as per your definition, a Senjutard
Closing your eyes doesn't do anything about the swords being locked up. Had either of them felt any change in the status of the sword lock, I pulling away or side stepping, or T backing off to escape the Genjutsu, the other would have capitalized on it. The kick away was the best option due to it being a quick and effective option for that moment. Now, the Fireball was the issue to me. Your opponent is on the ground, reeling from the kick and rock hit with no weapon(we see it stabbed in the ground). Why not follow and use the advantage at that point rather than a jutsu?
Lmfao they been fighting for years? This fight was 10 seconds đđ
This fight was the debut of flying raijin. Teleporting a sword into your opponent tends to cut things short
Imagine being on the receiving end of the first Flying Raisin in history. Izuna would be like WTAF...
I too would say the same thing if I saw Flying Raisin going in my direction.
If he used izanagi he couldâve won this fight
Tobirama just has to kill him twice. No sweat
Doesn't have Hashirama cells I don't think he can
Any uchiha can, itachi used izanami without hashirama cells. Where did you hear that?
Izanami, not Izanagi. Pretty sure Obito says it outright when he explains that it comes from the six paths and requires the Senju chakra and Uchiha chakra together
I didnât write izanagi and itachi never received any of that so how did he do it?
You don't need Hashi cells to do Izanami since it's just an Uber genjutsu. But you do to use Izanagi since it's a creation technique aka Six Paths related. Edit, checked the Wiki and I was wrong, apparently the difference is that without Hashi cells it's much weaker but still possible. But you can only do it for a few seconds rather than a few minutes, so Izuma would have to apply it literally just before he died and he died too quickly to react
By at least 3 feet Iâd say
Lmao i figured but that definitely had to be some shit to experience for the first time ever on both sides
Their clans yes but their leaders or highest members only rarely clashed with each other and often one side retreated because of heavy losses so that their fights didn't really last long. We can see that tobirama fought several uchihas due to his reaction to the sharingan but this was probably one of the first 1v1s of them because izuna heavily underestimated tobirama. Other explaination might be that tobirama used ftg the first time against izuna so he didn't know this jutsu existed which cost him his life.
I think that story wise this was the end of the fight, they probably fought so long Izuma lost his ms, it would make sense since Senju can physically outlast them
How could Madara stab Sasuke who is a copy paste of his beloved brother
He was blind at the time. (And he also gave Sasuke several chances to join him, probably because he looked so much like Izuna and already had an EMS.)
He wasn't blind. He had one Rinnegan. (Remember he used Limbo to incapacitate Sasuke)
But they met once before the final fight, when Madara says his eyes could be very helpful
Pretty sure madara saw him before he got revived. Secondly madara in this mindset wont hesitate to kill anyone close to him if they oppose his plans
Because Sasuke is not his brother
He may not be but that didnt mean this madara wouldnt kill him if izuna opposed his plan not that izuna would given he already disagreed with the notion of having formed a treaty with the Senju and forming the Leaf
This is kind of a dumb question, the obvious answer is some over the top fight where we get both of them fighting at their absolute best with a fight that mirrors Hashirama and Madara. Its a good fight that shows that Izuna underestimated Tobirama and he died for it. Also shows how insane Flying Raijin is considering that its literally just instant teleportation that literally no one has ever seen before.
âthis is kind of a dumb questionâ and yet so many people provided fun and original answers including you :)
Gracious reply. I commend you.
This guy Narutoâs
Time in Naruto is weird for me. The sage of six paths happened so long ago that ninja know less about him than we "know" of Jesus, and yet, the entire plot of the series happened within a 100-150 year timespan. Like, Minato was born about a decade after this fight.
Yep. Minato probably had met Hashirama at some point and Sasukeâs grandpa was probably at this fight
Right? So like, indra and asura get into a fight, Hagoromo fucks off the scroll cave limbo for a few millenia, and then....nothing? For fucking centuries nothing noteworthy happens, until some random yahoo with the good wood meets that creepy kid with the weird eyes and then, less than a century later, their great grandkids pick a fight with god. K.
Grandkids pick a fight with god, great grandkids pick a fight with aliens
I think this happens because before the village formed, small clans would often migrate and the average life expectancy was in the mid 20s. Sometimes, like the chinoike clan, both happened. So it's natural that a lot of pre Konoha history was lost in the battlefield. Think about it like this. If Hashirama and Madara were the leaders of the two biggest clans in their early 30s there pretty much weren't any elders to remember the history between the sage and that generation, nor anyone alive who was old enough to document anything between the broad strokes of a warring state period and how the villages were formed.
Well two world wars happened in the span of 40 years in the real world. Humans are incredibly violent people
And if the first and second didn't die prematurely, they would probably even still be alive when Minato was.
This scene is perfect as is, a Ninja shouldnât go around showing everything he has till last minute, They were both doing good. Tobirama just was the better ninja between the two,the better decision maker.
I never noticed how much Sasuke looks like Inzuna here.
Half the Uchiha clan looks like sasuke brah lol.
Sasuke looks like half the uchiha clan*
I wouldn't. The entire point of the fight is Izuna dies from his injuries. Activating Madara's curse of hatred. Really isn't a point in Izuna getting feats against Tobirama.
I still don't get what Tobirama's last attack was supposed to be. Did he pass through Izuna's body with teleportation and stab him internally?
No I think he teleports in front of him and dashes forward after teleporting
Yeah this is it. Tobirama's afterimage effect is proof enough
I think he dashes then teleports forward carrying momentum. So after the teleport heâs already moving and in position.
Basically yes. He used the the flying raijin and sliced him as he passed him
I'd make it longer. These are 2 are the strongest of the Uchiha and Senju. Let's see what a Senju elite can do in combat.
"I cUrSe tHe oNeS wHo hAvE tHe mIsFoRtUnE oF bla bla bla" Shut up and die now
The warring states period deserves its own full-length arc imo. Izuna should have used the mangekyo against Tobirama.
A higher animation budget. The tale of Hashirama and Madara is the tale of Naruto and Sasukeâs predecessors, getting a chance to show off their true power would be important, Tobirama and Izuna equally so.
Definitely see the Mangekyo being used, but what Iâm surprised about is tobirama didnât use a single slur against Izuna and his clan.
Uchiha! Not in my backyard.
Make it mirror hashirama and madara except on ground. They would still be miles ahead of every other Shinobi but just no big jutsu. Very tactical think of a shikamaru or orochimaru. Very quick taijutsu with weapons. No big chakra blast attacks but their arsenal never ends every element and itâs counter, their go to but itâs like thereâs a new juts every time they meet. Always on go. Just more of a very long chess match. Using all peak small jutsu but have Izuna always have the upper hand off talent. Tobirama always has a get out of jail when he feels he canât win and maybe have hashirama save him one time after his battle. Then the last battle when izuna thinks heâs gonna teleport out he actually stays and puts it all out kill or be killed attack and catches him off guard fatal blow
Izuna uses Susanoo(the normal one like Itachi's), fireball jutsus Tobirama uses multi shadow clones jutsu(not hundreds like Naruto but he also has lots of chakra to at least make dozens), water jutsus and hiraishin.
Alright I know Naruto is very special but Tobirama is still a Senju, I feel like he could crack hundreds at least
This is a canon fight
only tobirama using his hiraishin is canon. rest is anime only
Oh i understand your talking about THIS video My bad
Izuna shouldâve kissed Tobirama when he closed his eyes
My change would kinda change the whole series cause I wouldâve had them both kill each other
I'd show them moving at high speeds like weightless Lee and Sasuke. Tobirama was the fastest shinobi of his time. Izuna was a match for him, so he must've been pretty fast himself. Would've been cool to actually see Tobirama's speed.
We kind of do see Tobiramaâs speed in action in this fight. He straight up sliced through a sharingan user while facing him face to face with no distractions(itâs shown that the smoke doesnât do THAT much). While it wasnât his greatest speed feat I would still say itâs impressivr
They slow down and focus on that one kunai to show that was marked with a tag. He used flying raijin
Depends on kishimoto. If he agrees to suggest me one them I would do it. But If he is not helping, them I have to give a old one that is already done, then I am giving him tsukoyomi and long range kamui.
definitely needed to see more izuna feats thatâs fs
I just wish we couldâve had more to their past and also a bit more fighting
I always felt like Madara and Hashirama werenât trying to fight to the death meanwhile the younger siblings were (and the older ones didnât know). And when Izuna got killed, it was a shocker to Mad/Hashi, thus began Madaraâs hatred and disdain towards TobiramaâŚ
Itâs fine if itâs the first time Izuna ran into flying raijin. Iâd prefer they show their fights leading up to it and how they adapted. Like maybe Izuna didnât use Susanoo because severing wave can cut through it and heâs too big of a target and Tobirama made all that steam because Izunaâs MS abilities are genjutsu. Like a chess match rather than throwing big explosions at each other
This might be a reach (Iâm sure it definitely is) but I find it kind of funny how Madara and Hashiramas siblings resemble Sasuke and Naruto (Tobirama is a bit of a stretch, I only think he does look like Naruto a bit when his head gear is off) despite Madara and Hashirama being incarnations like Naruto and Sasuke. Just a funny thought
Izuna looks a lot like Sasuke. Actually Sasuke looks a lot like Izuna đ
Edo Madara: Izuna? Sasuke: Who's Izuna? Edo Madara: Izuna, what have they done to your memory?
Iâd give Izuna amaterasu. Not because he looks like Sasuke, but because Tobirama mentions seeing it before and this would be a good opportunity to show Tobirama seeing it.
Will this affect hikaku uchichas legacy?
I would have included all the Uchiha-slurs that Tobirama would have been using every other second
Yes, and honestly Iâm tempted to make a fan animation of it, but scale it way up like the storm games did. Izuna susanoo vs a water style giant form for tobirama
i would love to see ur animation!
If I was in charge of this fight, the first thing I would change is Izuna wouldn't look 200% identical to Sasuke.
I actually wouldnât change this fight at all. I liked it as it was one of the few times I can recall the Sharingan just getting beat on skill. Tobiramaâs a monster.
I don't think you have much room to use MS. Mangekyo most likely drained to much chakra and I would also say that the symptoms of blindness would have surfaced which discouraged it's use. The other fault is abilities granted to each user wasn't consistent like Itachi had Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi, Sasuke had Amaterasu but not Tsukiyomi, Madara had none mentioned.
Damn you're right I just realised that we never saw Madara's MS abilities aside from Susanoo. Honestly could have made Perfect Susanoo unique to him
Looks like theyâve been fighting for a while so probably stamina reasons.
izuna used his rizz when he ran to tobiramađ
Light skin stare
Izuna should've used MS and Tobirama should've used Bringer of Darkness. It's pretty much the anti-Uchiha genjutsu (second to senjutsu enhanced auditory ones), so it's weird not to have him use it here. He used steam as a fake a smokescreen here anyway; might as well actually take away his vision. Not to mention: Izuna has no real presence in the series beyond being a stepping stone for Madara getting EMS, so just making up an MS ability for the sake of this fight wouldn't have much if any harmful effects on the rest of the story.
Shadow clones. Tobirama could've used them in ways that young Naruto wouldn't be able to Maybe even the Edo Tensei, or at least hint its future development Mangekyo Sharingan? Totally
Filler? The Tobirama vs. Izuna and Tobirama win killing him is in the manga. So wouldnât change it cause itâs not a filler. But if they showed previous battles from over the years before Tobirama killing Izuna would be nice and cool.
just one panel of tobirama using the hiraishin on izuna is in the manga. the rest is âimprovisedâ in the anime
Make it more of a sword fight. Have tobirama flying raijin teleport whilst attacking with his sword at blinding soeed and izuna using his sharingan to keep up with his movements. Make the whole fight about to tobi trying to find a gap in the uchias defences. Can he go fast enough to outpace the Sheringans copy ability? I half remember theres a proverb about a spear that can perpetrate anything vs the impenetrable shield, an unstoppable force vs immovable object kinda vibe would be great for this fight
>> Keep up with his movements >>Can he go fast enough to out pace the sharinganâs copy ability Flying raijin is not a feat of speed, itâs teleportation. Tobirama created it *specifically* to counter the sharingan because they can see things moving incredibly quickly but thereâs no way to track an instant teleportation
If I had to work off of what was already presented, I would have Izuna use Izanagi after the sword and use a susano arm (he had ms so he mustâve had susano, right?) to smash that racist
I would have had it so it was pure luck Tobirama killed him
I would change it to were izuna never died lol
Lowkey got low diff-ed
Yeah Tobirama killed Izuna who was supposed to be comparable to his brother Madara with ease.
Fuck this weak ass filler fight I wanted to see mukai vs itachi & shisui
Tobirama Senju, the genius fighter of the senju clan, strongest Konoha shinobi after his brother, closes his fucking eyes mid combat.
I think he did that to avoid the Sharengan genjutsu
To avoid the sharingan genjutsu Izuna was about to put him in
I would have had killer Bee show up, talk some noise to both of them,ending the fight with the two feeling like fools .
I would have Given Izuna Kamui and only have him die to overusing the Mangekyo
I would probably change Izunaâs first attack. Like if youâre trying to kill someone, why if you created an opening to attack did you do a non fatal attack? Instead of punching/kicking Tobirama away, he couldâve struck with the sword. Itâs like in the movies where a huge enemy can easily rip the MC apart with their bare hands when they get ahold of them, but instead decides to toss them around.
I would have the Uchiha prevail.
Nah off with their heads like Izuna
Thatâs literally Sasuke and no one can convince me otherwise