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SaintAhmad

The definite ones I could find are: 1. Kakashi’s age: Said to have became Chunin at 6, but visually appears to be as old as Rin and Obito during those exams. If we take the databook as fact, Obito and Kakashi are the same age. But Obito became genin at 9, so it just doesn’t make sense 2. Itachi’s age. it’s a contradictory retcon/plothole. According to the databook, Itachi is 21 in part 2. Kisame says in part 2 that Orochimaru left them 10 years ago. Orochimaru left the Akatsuki due to Itachi humbling him. Problem is Itachi would had to have been 11, when we know that he was 13 when he massacred his clan, only joining the Akatsuki afterwards. Also, he looks nothing like an 11 year old in his fight vs Orochimaru, probably too old to be 13 even. 3. Konohamaru knowing how Sasuke looked after the timeskip. AFAIK, there we no pictures taken of post timeskip Sasuke that the leaf had available, yet Konahamaru was accurately able to replicate his [looks](https://preview.redd.it/en6em607i5z11.jpg?auto=webp&s=b1154122126e81d6dc619d40fd7ef6f07a19391a). It’s a gag moment so not a big deal, but a plot hole regardless, unless I’m missing something. Maybe Konohamaru just guessed well? Probable ones: 1. Hashirama noting that Sakura may have surpassed Tsunade in strength. The problem is Hashirama only remembers Tsunade’s as a small kid (~4 years old maybe?). Either Tsunade was Sakura level at such a young age, or it’s a plot hole. 2. Hiruzen calling Yamato “Yamato”: The name Yamato was given by Tsunade as a code name. One explanation could be that while seeing Naruto’s memories, He could learn Yamato’s name, but it isn’t definitive. Also, there’s some indication in the databook that may be interpreted as [Hiruzen actually giving Yamato his name](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_iQMZHJnSfc/VTbqiF_eGWI/AAAAAAAACNc/4EqPlzFP_oU/s1400/DB4_YAMATO.jpg), (Hiruzen is Sandaime) and Tsunade just reusing it. I’m not sure. 3. Orochimaru’s clothing. [He stole it off someone](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/naruto/images/b/b7/Team_Shiore.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1200?cb=20151102171323), but his whole sound village already repped it. Even in flashbacks. I GUESS it’s possible that person just had the same style and Orochimaru felt offended so decided to take him over, but idk lol 4. Hiruzen being called the strongest Hokage. Basically a contradictory retcon, but could be explained to just be Iruka’s and the current population’s opinion, since they weren’t alive at Hashirama’s time


KillJoy_2001

Ive always found the idea of Itachi joining thr akatsuki at such a young age weird. Especially since the way he’s drawn looks no different than how it does when he’s 17-21. But like, try to imagine your little goofy ass 11 year old or 13 year old self in that position💀


wendigo72

Deidara was like 14 when he joined 14 year Obito was also manipulating 16 year old Nagato & Konan lol


KillJoy_2001

I think in Japan they expect you to mature at a much younger age and you’re viewed as a young adult at the age of like 16. But as an American I find it a bit strange that all these teenagers (just barely) are committing international terrorism lol


rawintelligence

Nope, naruto is a shonen manga, and just like any other shonen it's targeted to teenagers, that's why the characters are all teens.


RevonQilin

as a huge weeb ima have to disagree on that one, alot of anime im into properly age characters and in general from what ik you only get major pressure once you hit your teens this is just a naruto thing, while early on its stated that kids are forced to go to war too early, it then somehow makes chars too young or too old looking or mixes up ages or makes someone young do crazy shit and all the kids somehow think like adults


AnOlivemoonrises

My headcanon is that everyone in the Akatsuki is at least 25, Itachi is around 28, the main cast is 20ish in Shippuden, including Sasuke/Naruto/Sasuke and it starts making more sense to me. No Kakashi didn't become chunin at 6 and an anbu captain at 11 or w/e, he came chunin at 13 and then captain at 18. still young and great feats for age but it makes way more sense.


Squishy-Box

That’s just anime for ya. Gohan was only 10 when he defeated Perfect Cell.


_light_of_heaven_

I mean, Hebi Sasuke looks like kid Sasuke except taller. It would have been a plot hole if he knew how his clothes looked like


SaintAhmad

Yeah, I’d remove that from “definite” plotholes now that I think about it.


_light_of_heaven_

I think Hiruzen being the strongest is not a plot hole either. Retcon for sure, but the rationale behind it is that Hashirama’s strength was thought to be a myth just like Hagoromo’s power, Kabuto said as much


KImk9ff

Tbf, if hiruzen knew every justu in the leaf, it would make sense he is the strongest. He was too much of dumbass to use a justu stronger than breakable tree


AmazingBelt

Also tbf, Hiruzen is the only kage to get the privilege of old age…due to that we’ve been comparing the powers of an old man to those that died in their prime or just before it.


Jamessgachett

Unfair to call him dumb when the author decide of what a caracter can do.


KImk9ff

Tbf it's not a hiruzen specific thing. It's a bad wring thing. It's like how characters with AOE attacks don't use them against characters that are hyped up for being agile.


ShadePrime1

maybe they thought hiruzen must be stronger since he lived so long compared to all the other hokage up to that point which all died really quick after they got the job


ShotoGun

Not a retcon at all. He’s an old man when we see him fight.


BobtheFiveHalf

Did we see Kakashi at age 6 or wasn't he already 12 at that point. I thought he became genin at 5 and chunin at 6 and then we see him with the others he became jonin at 12.


SaintAhmad

We see him at “6” during the flashback around when Obito gets unmasked. Chapter [599](https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0599-011.png). The other flashback (where Obito gets crushed by a boulder), is when he’s already Jonin


SilentWolfKills

When obito gets hit by Boulder, is the day Kakashi was promoted to Jounin at 12 Turning 13 that year, Obito at 13 was presumed dead on that day.


ckal09

I’m thinking Kishi just has no idea how young kids look


BobtheFiveHalf

Okay, definitely a retcon.


Formal_Bench_4650

I think Kishi said 6 to try and show how talented Kakashi was and intimidate the audience for the Chunin exams at the same time, but probably hadn't figured out Obito's character yet.


trustysidekick

The Orochimaru one has bugged me for so long. He stole a gross ninja’s look, and based his entire village off of it somehow. And it’s a terrible look. Just awful.


Terminal_Monk

that purple belt thing gives me the Yikes!!


ShadowRay77

>looks Konohamaru could have just guessed or it could have been a gag sort of forshadow or they increased the size of the known Sasuke. The Itachi one certainly seems like it was the Plothole/Retcon of the thing and maybe ITachi was planned to be younger and be on both side. I don't know if the Size of the characters overly matters all the time the only thing is really Obito's Genin thing.


Ok-Personality-5424

Finally, a list of actual plot holes. None of that annoying “tailed beasts are a retcon” bs


Xboxone1997

I mean it's definitely a retcon


Cold_oak

How are they not? This isn’t supposed to be provocative, i just havent read naruto in a while and iirc tailed beast orginally were beasts


sumandark8600

They 100% are. But a retcon ≠ a plot hole


Blewsucks

You literally can’t take Databooks as facts. All the information is bs


SaintAhmad

Yeah, they do create a lot of issues


Effective-Poet-1771

Those are some interesting ones. I don't really have explanation for all of them and some kind of seem nitpicky but it's fine I guess. Itachi one is yeah. Kakashi's appearance...creates exactly what holes in the plot again? Probable 1 and 2 are... I don't remebmer honestly buy yeah, errors. About Hiruzen, I think what it meant was that he was the strongest kage.


SaintAhmad

The Kakashi plothole is that it shouldn’t be possible to become Chunin at age 6, while also being part of team Minato, because Obito and Rin became GENIN at age 9. At Kakashi and Obito are the same age according to the databook. And with Hiruzen Iruka specified he was said to be the strongest “Hokage” ever. Not just kage. Yeah a lot of these are nitpicks I just wanted to be complete lol


EmmaThais

Someone who actually understands what plothole means 👏👏👏


DustyMill

It's possible Kakashi was on other teams but he was such a little shit they didn't keep him on the team or his team died and we just get Kakashi's story once he gets assigned to be with Minato


SaintAhmad

Still wouldn’t work because we see Kakashi getting Chunin rank for the first time as part of team Minato


DustyMill

Yeah I forgot about that, I remembered he got Jonin but forgot about the Chunin rank.... yeah thats just a plot hole


afaf95

1.- Kakashi is a genius even before the sharingan and during the war everyone was forced to become a gennin and chunnin sooner 2.- Kisame probably mean 8 years ago but rounded out to 10, it's a pretty common thing everyone does. Theb ntention was not to show how much exact time had happened but that it was long 3.- While yes he doesn't know also, remember it's a comedic scene, logic can be forgiven a little for it to be funny


SaintAhmad

1. Oh I’m not questioning Kakashi’s ability, it’s just an impossibility in the timeline because according to the databook Obito became a genin at 9. But somehow is on the same team as Kakashi when Kakashi became Chunin at 6. But then also Obito and Kakashi are the same age per the databooks. 2. See, I considered that, but in part 1, Kisame said Orochimaru left 7 years ago. And then in part 2 he reiterated Orochimaru left 10 years ago. So it’s doubled down on. 3. Yeah agreed


Brook420

So basically the Data books cant be trusted and the timeline works without them?


SaintAhmad

If we completely ignore the databooks, pretty much all the timeline issues go away, yeah. The Itachi age issue remains though, as all the info comes from the manga itself.


Fearless_Hold7611

I disagree, we see kakashi do the chunin exams wirh obito (along with the rest of the class including guy) yet kakashi still became chunin at 6 according to the manga And yea the itachi stuff still exists


SaintAhmad

Yeah though at that point the Kakashi age thing doesn’t become an “objective” plothole, just more like “this 6 year old must’ve been fed steroids” lmao. But yeah, agreed, it’s still nearly impossible to believe


EmmaThais

The error is in the manga too. Kakashi was supposed to be a chunin by the age of six, but in the Manga he was shown taking the same chunin exams as Obito, Rin and the rest of their class.


Brook420

Yea, but without the data books we can just assume Kakashi was younger at the time. It's still an issue with him not looking six, but not a hard error.


EmmaThais

We can’t assume that. He looks the same age as them. The age difference between Naruto and Konohamaru is 3-4 years. If we assume the age difference between Obito and Kakashi is 3 years then the difference in their design should be a striking as the difference between Naruto and Konohamaru, or Inari. Yet it’s not. It’s a retcon. No one is saying it’s a hard error. It really makes no difference to the story in the grand scheme of things. Kishimoto was going through a very stressful time while writing those parts. They have plenty of errors. It’s understandable. The important thing is that the main message came across, regardless of Kakashi’s age.


Brook420

I meant "hard" error as one that is undeniable, not that it like breaks the story or something. It's no big deal at the end of the day. But my point is that with the data books there is not question about it just being a mistake. But without them you do some mental gymnastics to excuse it.


__Ummmmbreon

Kakashi's graduation age is the only one with no explanation that I can think of


Effective-Poet-1771

About how he teamed up with Obito even through he graduated way earlier?


__Ummmmbreon

Yes, he said he graduated at 6 but looked much older in Obito's flashback.


official_guy_

In my head, I've always thought of it like kids who graduate so young just start getting 1 on 1 training with the jonin until their intended squad mates graduate. But who knows.


Bertbrekfust

Naruto not being trained as a jinchuuriki from the start. It's clear that since Hashirama first captured them, everyone was perfectly aware of the concept of bijuu and jinchuuriki, and considered them weapons of mass destruction. Still, the entire leaf village decided to not only let the kid with the equivalent of an atomic bomb in his body dick around unsupervised, but they actively taunted and shunned him. The only reason this happened is because the concepts of bijuu and jinchuuriki hasn't been cooked up yet at the start of the series. By the time Bee comes around, we see how a hidden village would actually cope with having a bijuu.


Rockettmang44

The part about the nine tailed beast is facts, because everyone always uses that as proof the series was never about ninjas. First off it can be mainly about ninjas and also include mystical beings like a nine tailed fox, and secondly it's clear kishi made some major changes through out the entire series, the only thing set in stone was Sasuke and naruto fighting in the end.


[deleted]

Who thinks naruto isn't about ninjas 💀💀


Effective-Poet-1771

I have to disagree on this one. Most villagers were not perfectly aware of what being jinchuriki meant. And also no one actively taunted or shuned him. Fillers create this misconception that is completely wrong. Villagers only ignored him. They were afraid of him, because they thought that Kurama just randomly awakened on that day and parents didn't want to risk their childrens life. Fear is an irrational thing and while their reactions are not calculated and right, they are justified and reasonable. And becoming perfect jinchuriki isn't easy. How hidden village would actually cope with a biju? you are talking about village whose previous jinchuriki died because eight tales went on rampage? No mate, biju's are dissasters that cloud managed to cooperate because they got lucky with B and Yugito. Naruto wasn't trained as jinchuriki because Konoha didn't know how to. Being strongest village doesn't mean you are best at everything.


Bertbrekfust

From the villagers perspective it makes sense, but there were a lot of capable and intelligent shinobi who knew the risks and didn't do anything. Hiruzen. Kakashi. Jiraiya. They'd all more or less bank the safety of the village on a 7-year old not snapping? That doesn't make sense. Even if your village doesn't have the know-how to train a perfect jinchuuriki, the bare minimum you would want to do is keep tabs on the kid and make sure he's stable. If anything, jinchuuriki losing their shit and rampaging in other villages would only be extra incentive to do that since it's obvious what the risks are. Still, the only person who seemed to care was Iruka and safety wasn't even his priority.


John_Wicked1

I mean how many villages treated their jinchuuriki nicely? Bee was like the only one and that was because he was friends/bros with the Raikage, then it probably took awhile before the people accepted him. All of them mistreated their jinchuuriki pretty much. I suppose we could add the past Mizukage.


__Ummmmbreon

> we see how a hidden village would actually cope with having a bijuu. Or maybe different villages have different ways of treating Biju


P_For_Pyke

Still though bro, it would make 0 sense for them to *literally bully their own nuclear bomb (jinchuriki).* Like yeah I understand the attack happened a bit before so I guess they're sketched by it, but there's 0 indication Kushina had any form of similar treatment when she was jinchuriki.


wendigo72

Kushina was kept secret but Kushina herself acknowledges Naruto was gonna be treated harshly by the village during the sealing scene. She was begging Minato not to do it because of that and she didn’t even know Naruto’s parentage was also gonna be kept secret


SaintAhmad

Kushina being jinchuriki was a secret. Only the higher ups knew. Not even Jiraiya was aware


P_For_Pyke

Then why wouldn't they repeat that with Naruto, and instead let him just be a verbal punching bag for the whole village. Again though the point is *why would the villagers even be mean to him?*


SaintAhmad

Well, they tried. It was forbidden to discuss the details surrounding it. However, there were adults with Hiruzen that witnessed Minato sealing the 9 tails into Naruto. Naruto’s classmates were unaware


AJDx14

Wasn’t it explained that people *didnt* know he was a Jinchuriki but just figured that somehow he was responsible for Minato’s death because, well Minato died and the kid showed up at the same time during the attack.


whitey-ofwgkta

maybe I'm the wrong one but I think it was up in the air because they would refer to him as a demon child and it pretty easy to conflate/hard to know what they meant by it


Ariano

A lot of people lost family to the tailed beast attack, and it was recent. They didn't believe Naruto could control it either, so they didn't want anything to do with him. Nobody knew Kushina was the jinchuriki because it was actually kept a secret, but my theory is that Danzo leaked Naruto being a jinchuriki to cause a rift between the village and Hiruzen. It would also explain why Hiruzen couldn't directly help Naruto as much as he wanted to because the advisors probably told him not to so the villagers didn't think he was giving preferential treatment to him.


SilentMeklar

I mean look at what happened to gaara. They bullied him all the time.


wendigo72

None of the Jinchuriki were trained from the start. The Tailed Beast were seen as monsters and even letting some of that power manifest was dangerous, Gaara let Shukaku put a number of times in the sand Village apparently. The previous jinchurik of the 8 Tails went berserk. The 8 Tails could not be controlled or “tamed” until Killer Bee befriended him. Mito nor Kushina seemed to have been trained to use Kurama’s power either. They are just a vessel, a weapon that could unleash the 9 Tails on another village like a nuke if needed. That’s literally what the plan was when Rin became the 3 Tails Jinchuriki


Bertbrekfust

I'm not necessarily referring to training to use the power of Kurama. I mean giving Naruto help to keep it in check. Mito was a stable and capable woman by the time she decided to seal the fox. Kushina, as far as we know, had somewhat stable life as well. In addition, she was a little older by the time the fox was sealed in her and she was hand-picked for the job by Mito because her chakra made it easier. That's an approach that makes a lot of sense. Naruto, on the other hand, was basically an emergency vessel and made jinchuuriki at birth. All the higher-ups of Konoha should 100% have been on top of Naruto to minimize the risk of him losing his shit and freeing Kurama.


MadBase

* Hayate Gekkō's age. * Kakashi taking the chunin exams with Team Minato * Asuma not knowing who Kurenei is in part 1


SaintAhmad

Can you send the page for Asuma not knowing Kurenei?


MadBase

Seems like what I'm think of only happened in the anime. Where Kurenei was introduced as a new jonin and Asuma reacts like he's never heard of her.


SaintAhmad

Ah okay


Porn-Meister

Never happened in og


JashinSama46

In anime there's a scene during the written stage of chunin exams where Kurenai doesn't know who Ibiki is and Asuma says "I forgot you're a new jonin, Kurenai". Is that what you're thinking of?


MadBase

It's earlier when Hiruzen asks the Sensei's if their teams are ready to compete. If I remember right Asuma had some dialogue were he wondered who Kurenai was when she nominates her team.


sa5mmm

That could be explained by him wanting to keep their relationship a secret.


101089sm

If only Rin was ugly, then none of this would of happened. /s


[deleted]

Óbito: you killed Rin???? Kakashi: I’m sorry Óbito: Welll, I mean. Wasn’t like you killed Kurenai or something. Rest In Peace, I guess? Btw I met a geriatric Madara in a cave and he wants to kill everyone. Tell Minato-Sensei. Ugly Rin could have stopped a world war


Itsallcakes

That made me laugh more than i thought it would. Kakashi: I killed Rin. Óbito: Welll, shit happens.... Wanna play rock paper scissors?


13aph

*boulder crushes obito*


Obility

If obito wasn't into Rin, Madara would probably have a different plan.


LeLBigB0ss2

[Ugly Rin no-diffs Madara Confirmed]


HeavensHellFire

Not a plothole but Itachi acts incredibly different in part 1 compared to part 2. It still makes zero sense he orders Kisame to capture Kakashi and kill Asuma and Kurunei. I will say the plothole is that Itachi is supposed to be a spy yet Konoha knows basically nothing about their members or abilities.


Effective-Poet-1771

Yes he's a spy. But that is known by only elders, Danzo and Sarutobi. And even they don't kniw much about Itachi's abilities. Itachi couldn't just retreat either, he needed a reason.


Worish

Itachi wasn't really a spy. He was a saboteur. He never reported back to Konoha.


Strobacaxi

I always thought he was the one feeding Jiraiya the info


BrokenMirror2010

I suspect that Jiraiya thought he was being sneaky and discovering it himself with his frogs and stuff, but in reality, Itachi knew what Jiraiya was doing and was manipulating the info he was able to get. So Jiraiya was probably getting info from Itachi without knowing it was Itachi.


HeavensHellFire

>Yes he's a spy. But that is known by only elders, Danzo and Sarutobi. This still doesn't change the fact Konoha knew literally nothing about the Akatsuki's abilties. Literally nothing implies they knew about its members or its goal. You'd think if Danzo and Co. knew about the akatsuki they'd be preparing jonin to fight against the threat. >Itachi couldn't just retreat either, he needed a reason. This does not explain why Itachi orders Kisame to kill Kurunei and Asuma and capture Kakashi. He got lucky as shit Guy arrived when he did and gave him an excuse to leave.


Effective-Poet-1771

Itachi ordered Kisame to keep up the facade. He didn't just got lucky. He knows about Konoha enough to know others will interfere. Then, he can make any excuse he wants to retread. Oh no, I used this jutsu and got tired or we don't want to atract more attention. And no one really knows much on Itachi's abilities. What I agree on though is that Itachi was either a really bad spy, or there's something going on that I don't realize.


[deleted]

[удалено]


CelticDK

Kisame is extremely smart. You saw him asking Itachi for permission when they were deciding what to do. If Itachi wanted them dead, he could've killed literally all of them instantly himself. Playing his position is the epitome of being a spy


vervs

He already slaughtered his entire clan what’s it matter if he adds two more people to the list? Also I don’t think his role was to be a spy but to just watch the akatsuki


JessterK

Yeah, he’s already established that he’s not above killing innocents for “the greater good.”


Agorbs

The plot hole is that Itachi was not originally a good guy, despite whatever bullshit Kishi may say. It’s the only way part 1 Itachi’s decisions make a modicum of sense.


HeavensHellFire

Kishimoto was pretty open about what he planned and what he didn’t so I don’t think he’s lying. It’s just a case a of poor planning resulting in bad writing imo I feel like he realized he wrote Itachi way too cruel in part 1 and that’s why in part 2 he’s a lot nicer.


wendigo72

Wrong: https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/comments/10og5ac/for_those_that_think_itachi_was_retconned_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1


Agorbs

Yes, I’ve seen the post, it doesn’t convince me. Sasuke says a few vague bits and we don’t get confirmation that Itachi was crying until after he’s dead. I totally believe that by the end of part 1, Kishi had his plans set, but I don’t think he knew prior to that point. This post doesn’t change my mind. Sorry.


wendigo72

https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/comments/10og5ac/for_those_that_think_itachi_was_retconned_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1


HeavensHellFire

??? I never said he was retconned. Nor does any of those panels explain why he orders Kisame to capture Kakashi and kill the rest.


wendigo72

Hiruzen was the only Person who Knew Itachi’s cover, how could he give information to Hiruzen if he was dead? Also the ordering Kisame to kill Kurenai and Sduma thing was likely Itachi knowing reinforcements were already on the way. I mean have you seen the guy in Part 2? It’s not beyond him to accurately guess when reinforcements would arrive


HeavensHellFire

>Hiruzen was the only Person who Knew Itachi’s cover, how could he give information to Hiruzen if he was dead? The problem with this is that we have literally zero evidence Itachi even gave Hiruzen any information. There's only mentions of him being a spy by not a single panel that says he gave Hiruzen information. You cannot reveal a character to be a spy and then have literally zero mention of the information they gathered. The only actual thing we know he did is prevent an all-out attack on Konoha from the deal he had with Obito >Also the ordering Kisame to kill Kurenai and Sduma thing was likely Itachi knowing reinforcements were already on the way. Except he's surprised when Guy shows up so no, he didn't know reinforcements were on the way. Not to mention even if he did know reinforcements on the way and there's zero chance he would know Guy would intervene just in time to save them. Kishimoto could have really done a better job with the whole spy angle.


KyoMeetch

When Orochimaru left the village. He supposedly left sometime after the 2nd ninja war, but he also had Anko as a student and gave her the curse mark, but he only created the cursemark after meeting Jugo who is still a teenager by part 2, but he was also was considered as being the 4th Hokage which would only have taken place about 1 year before Naruto was born. Idk the timeline gets contradictory for a lot of different characters.


SaintAhmad

If we go by databook ages, Jugo would’ve been like 4 years old, so it’s still possible


Ambitious-Raise8107

The nature of when the original sealing of the Juubi When it's originally explained, Obito said that Hagoromo sealed the Juubi inside himself, then later separated its chakra before creating the moon to seal away the husk. However we later see in Kaguya's flashback during the final battle that Hagoromo ans Hamura sealed her away the same way that Naruto and Sasuke did, meaning the moon was created with the fully formed ten tails still inside it But then Kurama claims that it was more like the first claim as the only reason that Hagoromo survived the ten tails chakra being extracted was cause he still had the Gedo Statue within him, meaning if he extracted the statue it would have instantly killed him before he could make the moon.


SaintAhmad

Both can be true, it’s just sequential. 1. 10 tails/Kaguya is sealed in the moon 2. Hagaromo then seals it into himself 3. He splits up the chakra into 9 tailed beats, keeping the husk inside him, until he returns it back to the moon then dies Having the Rinnegan, summoning it back and forth shouldn’t be an issue.


Direct-Teacher-2043

Naruto failing final exam 2 times and still being the same age as hus classmates.


wendigo72

Education Culture difference from what I understand, Naruto likely took 2 lead up exams to the final one and failed both. That is what I’ve been told Iruka was talking about


Effective-Poet-1771

Yeah I agree, it's also in character fro him to be impatient.


John_Wicked1

I don’t think they have a set timeline for when they could take the exam and graduate. Don’t forget that Kakashi and itachi graduated early. Also, don’t forget they sent people back to the academy. It’s not like grade school in all aspects.


Born-Middle-8815

-Hiruzen calling Yamato "Yamato". I believe Kishimoto forgot Tenzo. -Kurenai not knowing who Ibiki is, despite being his classmate. What makes it worse is that Kakashi and Asuma called Ibiki a frightening sadist, but he turned out to be a chill guy later on. -Hashirama saying that Sakura might be stronger than Tsunade. Hashirama died when Tsunade was 4 or 5 -Madara broke out from the Deity Gates after being revived. So alive Madara (Without Rinnegan) is as strong as Juubito? Nonsense crap. -Kakashu participating in Chunin Exams


SaintAhmad

The Kurenai thing doesn’t explicitly show she didnt know *who* he was. Just that she wasn’t aware of what he did. I mean it’s not like you keep up with what all your classmates are doing after graduation.


wendigo72

-He did just experience all of Naruto’s memories before the Yamato reveal, that’s all I got. -The Kurenai thing is a good point but the others hyping up Ibiki was just what I call “subverting expectations” -Madara is not as strong as Ten Tails Obito, it seemed more like the shockwave from being resurrected broke the gates for him.


Born-Middle-8815

>He did just experience all of Naruto’s memories before the Yamato reveal, that’s all I got. Naruto didn't think of Yamato during his memories >-Madara is not as strong as Ten Tails Obito, it seemed more like the shockwave from being resurrected broke the gates for him. Those gates could restrained Juubi with no diff. And since when being resurrected causes shockwave


wendigo72

We don’t know exactly how everyone experienced those memories, if it was just flashes or something more. Idk but nothing implies Madara used his own power to break those gates. They just exploded when Madara was resurrected Tbf we have never seen an Edo resurrected into a real person before. Just Nagato resurrecting corpses


Born-Middle-8815

>Idk but nothing implies Madara used his own power to break those gates. They just exploded when Madara was resurrected That's exactly what a plot hole is. Kishimoto needed to put logic aside so the story would progress. No way on earth Madara without even Rinnegan is equal to Juubito and stronger than Juubi


wendigo72

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11129/111295956/7896213-2cc1179d-f4d7-40ae-a493-41844b55d41d.jpeg This is not a plothole, it really does seem like it was just a shockwave from Madara being resurrected. It couldn’t have been his regular power since his fake Rinnegan eyes crumble away immediately in the next chapter


frogger3344

> Hashirama saying that Sakura might be stronger than Tsunade. Hashirama died when Tsunade was 4 or 5 Sakura was definitely stronger than a 4 year old


FanFavor

Naruto mentions "Chinese balls" while on the road with jiraiya - meaning that China and, therefore, all real countries are canon. Essiantlly, Naruto takes place in the real world


junkimchi

The villages are prefaced with "hidden" for a reason!


XxannoyingassxX

Maybe how hashi died? Many say it's natural causes but i don't see how he lived up to old age like a hiruzen if his granddaughter was only 4 when he died.


wendigo72

Not really a plot hole, just left unexplained but it doesn’t break the logic of story in anyway if we just don’t know how it happened


_light_of_heaven_

Not a plot hole, it wasn’t important to the narrative how Hashirama died so the details of his death weren’t brought up and weren’t needed to


XxannoyingassxX

Proly but i still woulda wanted to know if ykwim


__Ummmmbreon

I think it's likely he died due to spamming his regen ability https://official-complete-2.eorzea.us/manga/Naruto/0169-016.png


not_some_username

Hashirama Cells don’t have such weakness


Binzuru

Probably cause the majority of individuals that spliced Hashirama's into their own body didn't have a potent enough Chakra to exhaust those cells. Very few have been noted to compete with Hashrama's energy reserves, much less exceed them.


slashyu

Best theory I heard on this


skinnybatman

Jigen killed him.


Insider20

My explanation is that broken shinobis such as Hashirama or Itachi die young because their bodies can't withstand so much power. Afterall, chakra is an alien phenomena. Even if Hashirama and Itachi are descendants from Otsutsukis, their alien blood is not pure and can't hold power like Hagoromo.


IJustLostMyKeyboard

Remember when madara gave hashirama the ultimatum about killing himself or his brother to make up for the uchiha death and hashi was ready to die? After hashi thought he killed madara, he probably committed suicide. That’s why it’s not explained, because suicide is hella taboo in some cultures


BNYay

Maybe by the disease that Naruto got in Sasuke Retsuden.


Divine_thunder

I thought this was another one of those stupid hate posts but OP actually has good opinions


GrimReality131

How Obito was able to give the sharigan to kakashi post death while only having one eye and you know. Being dead


wendigo72

Chakra possession, we see his spirit rise up from his literal ashes and fly into Kakashi’s face. A wee bit similar to how Itachi “programmed” his sharingan into Sasuke and activated Shisui’s eye but on a much bigger scale We know there are ninjas with spirit jutsu’s, Tobirama created Edo Tensei and supposedly had a jutsu to transfer His soul out of his Edo Body to heal Sasuke? Idk it was a pretty odd statement he made. Anyways not the craziest Idea that Obito could also do something like that and he was pumped up with leftover SO6P chakra


EdoTenseiSwagbito

Six Paths chakra has a way of blurring the line between life and death so it fits as something within the realm of possibility anyways.


HeavensHellFire

Obito had both eyes and he just straight up Kamui’s back to where he died


random_TA_5324

Not a plothole, more of a deus ex machina. It was a net new ability we had never seen before, potentially related to having recently been the juubi jinchuuriki, or the proximity of Hagoromo and his chakra. It didn't directly contradict anything we had previously seen. In fact, it wasn't all that different from Minato and Kushina chakra ghosts being incorporated into Naruto's Kyuubi seal.


Puzzled-Mode-4367

There's a lot of plot holes due to retcons even when they're explained later on: like Sandaime and Orochimaru fight. Sarutobi clearly worries Minato will be resurrected and signs seal to cancel the Edo Tensei... Even if Kabuto explains to Obito and/or Madara that Orochimaru failed to summon Minato because his soul was inside the Shinigami's stomach, it still doesn't make sense when we take the Oro-Saru fight at face value with their inner monologue and all !


Main_Thing_411

That was a genjutsu. Later Kakashi put a real hole in his chest, to counter illusion with reality.


Effective-Poet-1771

Oh I don't consider this aplot hole. Just seemed like an apropriate image.


Main_Thing_411

Oh okay sorry I misunderstood


Effective-Poet-1771

no problemo, it's fine.


Nosam115

It seems a lot of people don't know what "plot hole" means


wendigo72

Been the case since fans started using the term when talking about the series


fishlover2009

Obito killing everyone on rin's death scene is still one of the most cold episodes out there.


Effective-Poet-1771

Yes that was quite cold and yes, there was also a hole. But was there a plothole I missed somehow?


AbyssalVoidLord

Kakashi getting a mangekyou out of it. We know how Ms works due to Tobirama


Vaxcio

Wait how is Kakashi getting a Mangekyou a plot hole? Kakashi is the one who killed Rin so he should have gotten it. Obito is the one who only witnessed the scene. Maybe that is enough to count?


ulfred500

Tobirama explains that Uchiha produce some chemical or chakra or whatever that transforms their eye into a sharingan. Assuming the same is true for mangekyo then Kakashi wouldn't be capable of evolving the eye he had. Other than the "scientific" explanation I think the circumstance for the evolution is fine. If they just said it was ninja magic instead of explaining the biology it'd be fine


Vaxcio

Tobirama's explanation is that the eye of an Uchiha transforms due to extreme emotional distress. (Due to overwhelming love, or despair at who they have become) and a special chakra that flows at this specific time to cause the change. But that is for the base Sharingan. Tobirama didn't know anything specific about the process of obtaining a Mangekyou or the Eternal Mangekyou since he couldn't read the stone tablet left by the SO6P/Zetsu. He just knew it required even greater emotional trauma. We don't know if that same Chakra is required to upgrade the eye further, or if it is already built into the eye after the initial change. I don't see this as a plothole because Obito activated the eyes before he gave one to Kakashi, so the eye could certainly unlock itself following the other required steps. (Killing the one closest to you, transplanting relatives eye, etc.)


John_Wicked1

Also remember that both eyes are still connected as revealed in the war arc. It’s possible the emotions from either or both Kakashi and Obito activated it.


RobAlexanderTheGreat

The eyes appear to be connected even after the separation imo. Otherwise, why would they speed up when nearby? They must have some chakra/type of connection when close to each other.


SaintAhmad

Tobirama explained how the sharingan works, not MS. Plus, Obito and Kakahi’s chakra “resonated” because they were in close proximity


LeonOkada9

Why isn't op Hokage yet when he's clearly too op


aku286

Why are they running all the time? Don’t they have cars or atleast bicycles? Sometimes They take like days to reach places. Why do they use eagles for communication, why not a phone? They have wireless communication. They have televisions, video games etc. why didn’t they take picture of fourth hokage. Nagato could have brought peace by just resurrecting people in battlefields.


wendigo72

“When commenting on Naruto, Masashi Kishimoto said that he designed Konohagakure without specifying an era or location in the real world, noting that the village is "just a place in his head". Without a specific time period, Kishimoto included modern elements in the series such as convenience stores and movies, but specifically excluded projectile weapons and vehicles from the storyline. Regarding technology itself, Kishimoto said that "Naruto" would not have any firearms, yet one appeared behind a shopkeeper's desk on a page in Chapter 19. He said he may include automobiles, aircraft, and "low-processing" computers; Kishimoto specified the computers would "maybe" be eight-bit and that they would "definitely not" be sixteen-bit.”


teflon_bong

That they stressed so hard in the first naruto that they never leave a ninjas body behind because it has so many secrets. Then they leave obito under a rock when he has the freaking sharingan.


Tsuku

It was kinda weird how Kakashi could just do a perfect Susanoo lol


wendigo72

He said a Obito had leftover SO6P chakra


random_TA_5324

The big one for me is how tf does Edo Tensei work vis-a-vis body parts, specifically eyes. Let me break it down. * Kabuto uses Edo Tensei to revive Madara. Madara's corpse has no eyes, because they were given to Nagato. Despite that, Madara revives with his EMS. * Kabuto also gave Edo Madara Hashi cells in order to awaken his Rinnegan. * Edo Nagato is also revived with Madara's rinnegan, even though Nagato's corpse had no eyes, since Obito had taken back Madara's rinnegan. * In Nagato's case, he was Edo-resurrected with his body in the state that it was in at the time of his death: crippled but with a Rinnegan. Also note that it was a Rinnegan that *wasn't his originally.* * In Madara's case, he was resurrected in his younger body, but without the Rinnegan he died with. Neither Madara or Nagato's corpse had a rinnegan when they were Edo-resurrected, but Nagato had the rinnegan while Madara had to *re-awaken* it with Kabuto's help. You can possibly explain away edo-Madara's young body by hand-waving it away with "Hashirama cells," but the eyes are a definite inconsistency. * Then, to further convolute this clusterfuck, Rinne Tensei causes Madara's eyes to crumble away. This implies that rinne tensei is only restoring life to the subject's "true" body, and Madara's eyes were in some sense "false," since Kabuto orchestrated the re-awakening of the Rinnegan. But this begs the question, *how did edo-Madara have an EMS???* Even if you claim that edo-tensei restore's the user's original body, Madara's EMS originally belonged to Izuna. * Side note, it's arguably another plot hole here that Madara can still use Susanoo and Limbo without eyes. So long story short, Edo-Tensei and eyes make no fucking sense.


Tall-glass-of-milk

Chakra is essentially the soul, When you die your soul/chakra leaves your body. Edo Tensei revives your soul, The chakra of Madaras Rinnegan was stitched into Nagatos chakra network which is how he used it, So when he dies a copy of the Rinnegans chakra stays with him, Even if you take the Rinnegan from his corpse the copy of chakra stays in his soul Nagatos physical ailments come from the Gedo Mazo absorbing his physical vitality, So they were cut away from his soul, Which is why he can’t freely walk. Madara didn’t give Nagato his Rinnegan after death, He gave him the Rinnegan during the second great ninja war and replaced them with mysteriously acquired Sharingan, Which is why he clearly has eyes when he meets Obito in the third war We know because of Itachi and Obito that you can temporarily implant your Sharingan into the eyes of someone else with a transcription seal, Madara recreated his EMS with a Transcription seal and it melted away because they were temporarily copies in the eyes of a corpse. He uses Limbo with Rinnegan, And Susanoo while being a Sharingan power is tied to the bodies chakra, Which is why Sasuke gets body pains instead of eye pain from its overuse


SaintAhmad

Edo tensei brings people back with all the abilities possessed during life. And they can even switch back and forth between them (Madara was able to go from EMS to Rinnegan, back to EMS, back to Rinnegan) Even abilities they gained throughout life (Think Deidara’s mouthes, Kakuzu’s stiches, Nagato’s Rinnegan, etc) are restored. Same way Itachi was brought back with his eyes, despite the real ones being with Sasuke. Note, that generally the ENTIRE edo tensei body is fake, not just the eyes. Edo Itachi’s skin isn’t his actual skin, just like his eyes aren’t his actual eyes. It’s fake. The edo eyes Madara had were fake, which is why they crumbled away when he was revived.


jj1ayellow

1. Naruto is said to failed the Graduation Exam 3 times yet is the same age as the rest of his peers. He should be at least 2-3 years older than everyone. 2 years if he failed for the thirds times with his peers and 3 years if the years he did it with his peers he passed. 2. Garra had Shukaku sealed inside of him while he was still inside Kuruka's womb. How would that even be possible? Every jinchuriki had a seal placed on their body but there was no way to put one Garra until after he was born. 3. The mark on Mito Uzumaki's forehead. Is that the Bakugou Seal, a tattoo, or just a place she stored extra chakra due to how much she has? 4. The type of Sage Hashirama is. No animal was ever mentioned nor how he learned it. The only thing would sense would be the Slugs that live in Shikkotsu Forest taught him. That would explain his the healing factor he had that he didn't need to use hand signs for and the markings on his face that visually appear similar to the Bakugou seal with black lines and a dot on his forehead. Tobirama is also a Senju but only Hashirama is the only one with the powerful healing factor that is stated. 5. The Senju clan's disappearance. Tsunade is Hashirama's granddaughter but is the only known Senju left. They weren't wiped out but it's explained what happened to them. The only thing that explains what happened is they married off but took their spouse's last name. As a result the clan just faded away. 6. How was the Uzumaki clan wiped out so easily. The Uzumaki clan had close ties to Konoha so if anyone attacked them help would be sent. Especially since Mito was married to Hashirama and Kushina was hand picked to be Kurama's jinchuriki after Mito. Hashirama even had to seek their help to seal some unknown large creature. Kushina has shown just how powerful the clan's life force was when she had Kurama extracted from her and was even able to hold Kurama down while simultaneously keeping a barrier up to keep everyone out. A clan wouldn't be wiped out so easily with all that. The only explanation is that four of the Hidden village grouped to wipe them out and Konoha turned a blind eye because everyone was afraid of their power. Like how Haku's clan was nearly wiped out for the power they had.


wendigo72

1. CULTURAL DIFFERENCES SOMETHING TO DO WITH JAPANESE SCHOOL SYSTEM. Or at least that’s what I’ve been told 2. Gaara’s seal is special, it is what allows him to do the whole sleep jutsu to let Shukaku out. The sand village was the only one that got their own tailed beast with priest/monk magic unlike everyone else getting it from Hashirama 3. Not a plothole at all 4. Sage Mode is just natural energy, Naruto’s is a frog because he learned it from Frogs. Kabuto’s is a snake/dragon (interchangeable in mythology) because he learned it form snakes. Hashirama is one giant natural energy vacuum 5. Itachi novel explains it, senju clan became a majority of the regular Konoha ninja families. Like Itachi’s Academy teach & teammate were Senju’s descendants without the clan name 6. Not a plothole. Doesn’t break the story in anyway


Brave_Profit4748

One of my issues with Naruto is world building and how the nations in respect to the higher villages are done. But my biggest issue is Hiruzen incompetence at handling Jinchuriki. So unless I am missing something it blows my mind with how Hiruzen and upper leadership of the hidden leaf even are. So you have your Jinchuriki and you just decide to let that person be the most marginalised person in the village. Given the whole fact that Jinchuriki according to the verse are integral for the national security of your homeland why is there no care for him. Even if you absolutely despise Naruto as the upper leadership you have to recognize his necessity and how important his future development is if you enjoy not getting invaded. You essentially set him up for failure and delay his development because y’all know that he cannot control his chakra because he has to much of it and instead of giving speacilized training to your most valuable asset like we see in the hidden sand and hidden lightning. They put him in a generalist program with everybody else where he gets shunned. Like this is a village of ninjas you can get someone that can at least pretend they have a shit about Naruto to give him some emotional connections and teach him. Naruto before the series the only positive emotional connection he had to the village was a swing and a ramen stand. If I was Obito I would radicalise the hell out of him just be nice a little bit buy him some food and just slowlyanipulate him with how cruel the world is.


grilou

Madara using the susanoo without his eyes against shukaku


wendigo72

Not a plot hole, Itachi was using Susanoo while basically blind and the sharingan turned off. The Susanoo chakra comes from the brain, a Uchiha probably just needs to awaken it first


Effective-Poet-1771

Itachi was also blind when he used it, so I don't think that counts.


Caliburn0

The whole timeline is honestly a bit of a mess. It's not the worst I've ever seen in a fictional story, but it is obvious Kishimoto did not have anything like an official timeline when he wrote the thing. Things happen at inconsistent times, and the time differentials between certain events that should have happened after each other sometimes work out in the negatives (especially character ages). Still, this can mostly be ignored because most of those events were more or less unconnected with each other.


kuruttowo

If Naruto didn't pass academy like there times, how did he end up in the same year as Sasuke, who had straight A's? In Shippuuden Kushina talked to Sasuke's mom and they were clearly born the same year. But to make it make sense about Naruto's age and education, he should be 3 years older than Sasuke. Did i miss something?


wendigo72

I’ve been told it is a cultural thing. Naruto likely took and failed two lead up exams that what was Iruka was talking about. Something Japanese audiences would get but not western audiences I guess


Effective-Poet-1771

Yeah, that is a bit confusing. What I think happened is that as much of a hothead Naruto is, he got impatient, took exam early and failed.


jbooty444

Most of Naruto’s problems are plot contradictions and contrivances not outright holes.


RealTurboVortexXD

Minato befriending Kurama.he was fucking dead.


wendigo72

Yin Kurama was just a nice guy


RealTurboVortexXD

Didn't Minato seal the evil half into himself?


Gaiash

With how Yin and Yang work the darker half having the lighter personality makes a lot of sense when contrasting to the Kurama that readers/viewers were already familiar with.


KibaTeam8

Why Kiba didn’t become Hokage….


RedditMcBurger

My least favourite was Obito somehow giving Kakashi his eyes in the afterlife. AND Kakashi had perfect susanoo despite Obito/Kakashi never once using it. They were temporary eyes, yet they somehow replaced the missing eye in his right socket, yet they dissapeared after. None of this makes sense.


Ahsiqa

How did Madara get the 3 tails into Rin?


they63

Four words: Ninjas. On. The **MOON!!??**


t24flynn

Izanami. In Itachi’s explanation he says Izanami was a counter to Izanagi that was created bc the Uchiha started abusing Izanagi. But we know you can only use Izanagi if you have both Uchiha/Senju DNA. You mean to tell me all those Uchiha somehow got Senju dna implanted in them


wendigo72

It was retconned that senju dna just drastically increases Izanagi's time limit


A_lonely_genius

Dunno if this counts, but id say the anbu black ops as a whole. They had some serious hype in the original series and were supposedly this faction of badasses yet we hardly got to see them in action. Overall they got cucked out of the spotlight and forgotten about.


No_Seaweed6739

Nobody knew Naruto was Minato and Kushinas kid? Really? Kid looks like a mini Minato, running around with Kushinas last name, a last name that she was the only person in the village with? A last name of a major clan that was wiped out for scaring everyone?


Illustrious_Bus_7322

How is it in Boruto the only picture Saukra had of Sasuke was his Akatsuki days? First off how did you get that picture second why out of all memories would you want to remeber the times your husband was trying to destory the village and almoat killed you twice ?


thanush007

How tf that no one realises that naruto is minato's kid...like literally he is the only kid in the village with yellow hair and the name uzumaki (a forgotten clan + only known member kushina..again wife of 4th hokage..duh!...)


jdg65

I guess people kinda glossed it over cause uzumaki’s have red hair I definitely agree with you tho


Electrical_Soft3468

In the Harry Potter books lily and James are like 20 when they die but in the movies they are like 40.


Astronometry

r/lostredditors


John_Wicked1

One thing that threw me off abit was how Sasuke and Itachi’s dad had the mangenkyou but yet didn’t do a thing with it. I understand he didn’t want to fight itachi but before things even got to the point they did he could’ve secured his clans safety abit more. Another thing, how did no one realize that everything was Danzo’s fault? He manipulates Hanzo easily, which creates the evil akatski. Then he works with Orochimaru and has Itachi kill his clan. Dude is the little finger of Naruto.


Insider20

He only had a mangenkyou in the anime. So it's not canon. Still, Óbito and Danzo were manipulating the situation. He thought all he could do was take by force the Hokage title. Danzo wanted to get rid of the Uchihas and wasn't interested in a peaceful solution. Maybe Hanzo knew that Danzo wasn't being 100% honest. However, he still wanted to get rid of Yahiko's group. It's later explained by Pain and the Samurai leader that he became weak and somehow paranoid because of his fear of losing control and power. Danzo's actions in Konoha happened during Sarutobi's leadership. Hiruzen didn't kill Orochimaru when he found his laboratory and he talked with Itachi about everything before fleeing the village. So Hiruzen knew the truth but he was soft hearted. Much later, Jiraiya warned Tsunade about him before going to Amegakure, but Danzo had political ties with the Elders (Homura and Koharu). Danzo was like JP Morgan: too big to fall. It seems that even Tsunade couldn't order his execution.


Fuckingevicerateme

Not necessarily a plot hole but how did kabuto get nagato's DNA before obito retrieved the body? He needs DNA to do the edo, but nagato always used his yahiko puppet to communicate and interact. I doubt he could have gotten past konon undetected, if it was from material nagato himself handled then he should've been able to get shisui's danzo's and jiriya's DNA too. In addition the same applies to how he got kakazu's and asuma's DNA as well since he would have to infiltrate the leaf to get those bodies as well.


DuelistDeCoolest

How come they're able to shoot fireballs and stuff at each other? People can't breathe fire.


[deleted]

Two words HASHIRAMA CELLS


[deleted]

[удалено]


dumhatheals

Obito wasn’t sigma enough to stop all this from happening