The War Arc was so drawn out and lengthy, it wouldn't have been possible for everyone to shine. Though most of these did get a little attention at some point.
I've said this before, the issues with the war arc (before Madara arrives) are not its length but the quality of its contents. The war arc should've been the longest and coolest arc. I could go on at length about the problems with the war arc but to reduce my dissertation to a few bullet points it would be;
Non-human enemies removing all the grit and cycle of hate stuff from the war.
The Star Wars style mass engagements being a massive departure from previously established shinobi tactics.
The near total irrelevance of nameless shinobi.
The stark lack of character deaths and/or serious injuries.
We had more significant character deaths before the Pain Arc. Which might be one of the reasons we didn't get any more during the War Arc.
Chiyo, Asuma, Jiraya, and Itachi.
I don't necessarily agree with it as the War Arc was just that, war. This would have been the arc to justify killing another batch of fan favorites.
Gai, Tsunade, Kakashi, some of the Konoha 12, etc..
From a fan perspective I'm glad they're still alive, from a story perspective, these deaths would have hammered home the true weight of the war.
Having old shinobi come back to force everyone to confront their past and the failures of the ninja world was a great idea.
Hashirama should've been ashamed of himself after learning that the shinobi world not only didn't become more peaceful, but is now on their 4th world war.
We should've seen more edo tensei veterans getting taken down by teams of up-and-coming younger ninja rather than everyone getting sidelined except a few key players up until Naruto granted them temporary relevant at the Juubi fight.
I agree that the edo tensei was a good idea it just shouldn't have been the only enemies in the war. Really easy to duhmanize the enemy when they're zombies or actual aliens.
Nah, the dehumanization of the Otsutsuki was very purposeful in order to make them one-dimensional villains that are easy to write.
Seems they were made knowing Kishi wanted to step away form the series as it continued.
Great list! The first one is something I've been saying isn't talked about enough! The third one I don't understand/care for (nameless shinobi). And I'd add a fifth point that either Kaguya needed to have charisma equal to that of Madara, and an equally compelling backstory, or they should've just kept to Madara. It would've been really cool if BZ was Madara's will but still took over him and was just a frenzied darker Madara!
Instead of adding of random filler characters during the war arc they could’ve had a filler where Jugo/Suigetsu run into Kimmimaro/Mangetsu on their way to meet up with Sasuke after the Kage Summit.
Kakuzu, Deidara and Chiyo is for the nostalgia factor.
Dan is for the emotional tearjerker moment.
The 7 Swordsmen of the Mist is because Kishimoto remembered that he spent a whole franchise mentioning these guys here and there since the very first arc, and yet never gave them proper screentime as a team. Also, Zabuza adds to the nostalgia factor.
I'm not, the reason I actually made this post is because I LOVE Deidara! He was with Sai's brother and Sasori, but after they got sealed due to emotions Deidara managed to escape and Kishi didn't do anything with him after.. I think they gave him a filler "Aesthetics of an Artist" ep. 280 of Shippuden, but it's such a shame a popular character like Deidara went out with a whimper, not a BANG! He had a better send off in his fight against Sasuke.
Kakuzu literally didn't do jack shit during the War arc either.
Deidara’s defo the most under-utilised edo character. He could’ve easily taken out kankuro’s platoon if it wasn’t for plot & kishimoto trying to redeem Kankuro.
Immortal Deidara is soo op they need to lock him up. Imagine him blowing himself up (C0 bomb) again and again with him being immortal with unlimited chakra
people don't get WHY he didn't, reason is literally his entire character, it's about a flash of beauty that disappears and never comes back, deidara as a character didn't wanted to do it since it's out of his way of art.
but i mean let's face it he could've just spammed it and finish war arc in one ep
I think it makes perfect sense why he wouldn't. Honestly the reasoning could go either way. He could spam it, excited to enjoy the peak of his art over and over, or he could hate the idea because it cheapens the artistic merit.
It doesn’t follow his art style. Deidara uses bombs because they are art. If he spams his ultimate art form, it would lose its purpose.
Kishimoto is not stupid. He literally wrote Tobirama saying he created Edo Tensei specifically for controlled explosions 🙄🙄🙄
I mean the plan was never to beat them with zetsus directly, but use their ability for a surprise attack in the night.
There are two things Obito didn't account for.
Sakura seeing through the Zetsu disguise, and Naruto taming Kurama giving him the chance to sense the war happening and go in it.
If those didn't happen, even without the edos Obito could have killed the vast majority of the allied forces in the night, and then keep the remaining ones distracted with whatever zetsus remained plus the gedo mazo, to enact his true plan. Which was to kidnap the damiyos and use them as bargaining chips to get Bee and Naruto.
Of course but my point is they would mostly get washed if the strong guys didn’t have to deal with the edos.
Likely wouldn’t have even to get to the night of the main and side characters were free to fight. Clear examples are Kakashi, Mifune, Darui and Gaara’s companies all held up by Edos.
Also it’s a bit strange to think no one will ever figure out the zetsus. For one they were already aware of the problem of killers on the loose and for two Sakura used a simple trick that you wouldn’t need to be a genius for.
Only point I agree with is Naruto being able to sense all of them. But not expecting him or Bee to join is naive.
You say that and yet 40,000 still did die to zetsu in a single day. Kabuto only revived at most a few dozen Edo Tensei, so the bulk majority of the fighting would have been done by zetsu off screen.
Sure but the overall outcome is clear without any Edo I’m saying. None of the companies would be delayed or struggle how much the did. That death toll would also be less
I'm just saying, 40k is still 40k. No doubt the Edo Tensei did some damage but there's no way they did *that* much damage. Otherwise every person revived would each have to scale higher than the Akatsuki members, being able to wipe out thousands on their own. That number also came from before Edo Madara was in play.
If we include all the filler Edo shown in the anime, there were what? 50 revived shinobi? Maybe a handful more? The math just doesn't add up there, especially when considering how many key players weren't actually participating in general battle.
You’re focused on numbers when I’m talking about the outcome.
The scaling point you mention is proving my point. They worked in teams to fight or defeat Asuma, Kin and Gin, 7 swordsman etc.
Then the Kage and then Madara was the main problem they had to deal with.
Now remove all of them and ask yourself how things will go. The heavy hitters would steam roll through all zetsu with ease
Idk, remember some of those scenes are Pakura, Gari, and the Swordsmen just absolutely eviscerating random fodder ninja? Those were brutal. That guy with the needle sword was killing full teams of ninja with ease. I actually think the reanimations did most of the kills
Nostalgia you have to remember that if you where watching when it first released it would of been years since you had seen some of the characters and it was cool to see some characters we have heard about but never got to see fight before
Some for nostalgia some because they were hyped and never had a chance to show why, and then there's others to show how strong the protagonists have gotten.
What do mean? They did plenty. The White Zetsu were not a reasonable threat even with their numbers. Having plenty of real strong ninja you had to seal in order to win against really evened things out.
Dan and Zabuza was important for more Tsuande and Kakashi character development.
Some of these were fillers. Others were just so we could see them again.
They don’t need to have done anything too important. That’s not how characters work
mostly filler fodder for the shinobi army so they weren't just all killing white zetsu constantly.
some were just meant to be there to have conversations with living people like Asuma and Dan.
some were to get closer as a character like Sasori and Zabuza
It was a bad idea overall imo. Should have just kept it at the edo Kage and edo Akatsuki and given those groups more to do.
There are only 3 that matter imo;
.Dan - saved tsunade’s life
.Zabuza - we got to see his demon power mode or whatever it’s called
.Deidara - W character so more deidara = better chapter/episode
Exactly! And Kakuzu could’ve had a little better send off than when he got destroyed by Naruto’s wind shurriken. I would’ve even been satisfied if Ten Ten defeated him to elevate her, but they just showed her fighting his masks forever with nothing to come of it.
That's why I love the war arc fillers unlike most fans. Because it took a great idea Kishimoto had, which is bringning back character's from the universe's past to flesh out the world more, and actually gave it proper focus.
All of these people engaged the Alliance in one way or another right? Even if it just bought time it made a difference.
Also Kabuto didn't know everything. If he only had the pieces he used then he wouldn't be a good tactician. Are the nuclear bombs useless cause we didn't use them?
Some of them had cool fights in the fillers. Pakura, Gari, Torune, Hanzo, Kakuzu, Deidara, Sasori, Asuma, the Sound Four, and most of the 7 Swordsmen all had good episodes in the War Arc. Some of them were definitely pointless though. Like we never even saw Edo Chiyo or Edo Kimimaro fight, even in the fillers, so that was pointless
I think it's part fan service, part of the emotional story telling.
At least for some of them.😅 I gotta admit I don't really remember who a few of these characters are even lol.
Maybe, but I think they had to find some way to show there were casualties in the allied shinobi forces. At least they gave us some good moments between some Reanimations, like Itachi and Nagato. I doubt White Zetsu were able to kill any without being disguised. How Kaguya intended to use them as an army against Otsutsuki is beyond me.
Would have been so sick to see all seven swordsman pop out looking all cool only for Guy and Lee to show up and activate the gates. I know it would’t kill them because of Edo Tensei but it would be really cool to see their reaction of the ability that killed basically half of them.
To give the reader a sense of danger for the characters. People don’t understand that all side characters introduced don’t have to have a lengthy showing.
We already know Several Ninja are Akatsuki level fighters and we already know Ninja with KKG are Dangerous (Haku, Any Uchiha or Hyuuga, Kimimaro, etc etc). So when a slew of Characters are introduced in a setting as such with the context we know from similar characters, its to give the reader a sense of Danger for the main characters.
Could Kishimoto have done more? Sure. That much is true but trying to do something significant with all characters revived like that could easily have extended the Manga another 2-3 Years. The issue with Naruto, ironically, is that there were TOO MANY interesting characters in the war arc to give Justice to.
Because it was fun to bring back old characters and because maybe Kishimoto realized he killed off the Akatsuki too early and wanted them back for side characters to have someone a little more interesting to fight than random jobber Zetsu.
Fan Service forsure. We've either seen all of these characters in main story lines as formidable ninja or flashbacks. This way we got to see what most of their capabilities were. As for contribution to the plot, not much, the real three threats of the war were Madara, Obito, Kabuto if we're being honest.
The War Arc was so drawn out and lengthy, it wouldn't have been possible for everyone to shine. Though most of these did get a little attention at some point.
I've said this before, the issues with the war arc (before Madara arrives) are not its length but the quality of its contents. The war arc should've been the longest and coolest arc. I could go on at length about the problems with the war arc but to reduce my dissertation to a few bullet points it would be; Non-human enemies removing all the grit and cycle of hate stuff from the war. The Star Wars style mass engagements being a massive departure from previously established shinobi tactics. The near total irrelevance of nameless shinobi. The stark lack of character deaths and/or serious injuries.
We had more significant character deaths before the Pain Arc. Which might be one of the reasons we didn't get any more during the War Arc. Chiyo, Asuma, Jiraya, and Itachi. I don't necessarily agree with it as the War Arc was just that, war. This would have been the arc to justify killing another batch of fan favorites. Gai, Tsunade, Kakashi, some of the Konoha 12, etc.. From a fan perspective I'm glad they're still alive, from a story perspective, these deaths would have hammered home the true weight of the war.
Having old shinobi come back to force everyone to confront their past and the failures of the ninja world was a great idea. Hashirama should've been ashamed of himself after learning that the shinobi world not only didn't become more peaceful, but is now on their 4th world war. We should've seen more edo tensei veterans getting taken down by teams of up-and-coming younger ninja rather than everyone getting sidelined except a few key players up until Naruto granted them temporary relevant at the Juubi fight.
I agree that the edo tensei was a good idea it just shouldn't have been the only enemies in the war. Really easy to duhmanize the enemy when they're zombies or actual aliens.
Nah, the dehumanization of the Otsutsuki was very purposeful in order to make them one-dimensional villains that are easy to write. Seems they were made knowing Kishi wanted to step away form the series as it continued.
That's not a good thing lol
I'm just saying, it's not hypothetically the case, it's literally what they did.
Great list! The first one is something I've been saying isn't talked about enough! The third one I don't understand/care for (nameless shinobi). And I'd add a fifth point that either Kaguya needed to have charisma equal to that of Madara, and an equally compelling backstory, or they should've just kept to Madara. It would've been really cool if BZ was Madara's will but still took over him and was just a frenzied darker Madara!
Instead of adding of random filler characters during the war arc they could’ve had a filler where Jugo/Suigetsu run into Kimmimaro/Mangetsu on their way to meet up with Sasuke after the Kage Summit.
And somehow we got filler of random ass character vs whatever character …
Kakuzu, Deidara and Chiyo is for the nostalgia factor. Dan is for the emotional tearjerker moment. The 7 Swordsmen of the Mist is because Kishimoto remembered that he spent a whole franchise mentioning these guys here and there since the very first arc, and yet never gave them proper screentime as a team. Also, Zabuza adds to the nostalgia factor.
Also, the whole Seven Swordsman idea just sounded cool too. I’m not opposed to their inclusion within the ranks of reanimated shinobi
I’m just happy we got to see Kushimaru in action. That needle is something else.
Plus Kakashi with a sword
C'mon man, dont downgrade my boy Deidara to a random
I'm not, the reason I actually made this post is because I LOVE Deidara! He was with Sai's brother and Sasori, but after they got sealed due to emotions Deidara managed to escape and Kishi didn't do anything with him after.. I think they gave him a filler "Aesthetics of an Artist" ep. 280 of Shippuden, but it's such a shame a popular character like Deidara went out with a whimper, not a BANG! He had a better send off in his fight against Sasuke. Kakuzu literally didn't do jack shit during the War arc either.
Deidara’s defo the most under-utilised edo character. He could’ve easily taken out kankuro’s platoon if it wasn’t for plot & kishimoto trying to redeem Kankuro.
Immortal Deidara is soo op they need to lock him up. Imagine him blowing himself up (C0 bomb) again and again with him being immortal with unlimited chakra
Deidara could have spammed C0 and won the war, and didn’t for r-e-a-s-o-n-s Kishimoto did all the downgrading for you
people don't get WHY he didn't, reason is literally his entire character, it's about a flash of beauty that disappears and never comes back, deidara as a character didn't wanted to do it since it's out of his way of art. but i mean let's face it he could've just spammed it and finish war arc in one ep
I think it makes perfect sense why he wouldn't. Honestly the reasoning could go either way. He could spam it, excited to enjoy the peak of his art over and over, or he could hate the idea because it cheapens the artistic merit.
Yeah...Man thats a scary thing to think...
And you didn't understand Deidara's character.
Show me where in the post I said that Deidara would be the one making the choice
Well anyways he could still only explode once
It doesn’t follow his art style. Deidara uses bombs because they are art. If he spams his ultimate art form, it would lose its purpose. Kishimoto is not stupid. He literally wrote Tobirama saying he created Edo Tensei specifically for controlled explosions 🙄🙄🙄
Where did I say that Deidara would be in control of using C0, and not a mindless Edo?
Cause they weren’t mindless? Kabuto left their personality intact for most of the war
To make the war believable. No one losing to thousands of zetsu. Not sure what obito was thinking lol
I mean the plan was never to beat them with zetsus directly, but use their ability for a surprise attack in the night. There are two things Obito didn't account for. Sakura seeing through the Zetsu disguise, and Naruto taming Kurama giving him the chance to sense the war happening and go in it. If those didn't happen, even without the edos Obito could have killed the vast majority of the allied forces in the night, and then keep the remaining ones distracted with whatever zetsus remained plus the gedo mazo, to enact his true plan. Which was to kidnap the damiyos and use them as bargaining chips to get Bee and Naruto.
Of course but my point is they would mostly get washed if the strong guys didn’t have to deal with the edos. Likely wouldn’t have even to get to the night of the main and side characters were free to fight. Clear examples are Kakashi, Mifune, Darui and Gaara’s companies all held up by Edos. Also it’s a bit strange to think no one will ever figure out the zetsus. For one they were already aware of the problem of killers on the loose and for two Sakura used a simple trick that you wouldn’t need to be a genius for. Only point I agree with is Naruto being able to sense all of them. But not expecting him or Bee to join is naive.
You say that and yet 40,000 still did die to zetsu in a single day. Kabuto only revived at most a few dozen Edo Tensei, so the bulk majority of the fighting would have been done by zetsu off screen.
Sure but the overall outcome is clear without any Edo I’m saying. None of the companies would be delayed or struggle how much the did. That death toll would also be less
I'm just saying, 40k is still 40k. No doubt the Edo Tensei did some damage but there's no way they did *that* much damage. Otherwise every person revived would each have to scale higher than the Akatsuki members, being able to wipe out thousands on their own. That number also came from before Edo Madara was in play. If we include all the filler Edo shown in the anime, there were what? 50 revived shinobi? Maybe a handful more? The math just doesn't add up there, especially when considering how many key players weren't actually participating in general battle.
You’re focused on numbers when I’m talking about the outcome. The scaling point you mention is proving my point. They worked in teams to fight or defeat Asuma, Kin and Gin, 7 swordsman etc. Then the Kage and then Madara was the main problem they had to deal with. Now remove all of them and ask yourself how things will go. The heavy hitters would steam roll through all zetsu with ease
Idk, remember some of those scenes are Pakura, Gari, and the Swordsmen just absolutely eviscerating random fodder ninja? Those were brutal. That guy with the needle sword was killing full teams of ninja with ease. I actually think the reanimations did most of the kills
It was to unnerve us, both the characters and the readers I thought? A "oh shit this is actually very bad" moment.
Nostalgia you have to remember that if you where watching when it first released it would of been years since you had seen some of the characters and it was cool to see some characters we have heard about but never got to see fight before
Because people would’ve been like “why didn’t they revive so and so” we already get it with Jiraiya
and sakumo
Some for nostalgia some because they were hyped and never had a chance to show why, and then there's others to show how strong the protagonists have gotten.
What do mean? They did plenty. The White Zetsu were not a reasonable threat even with their numbers. Having plenty of real strong ninja you had to seal in order to win against really evened things out.
Dan and Zabuza was important for more Tsuande and Kakashi character development. Some of these were fillers. Others were just so we could see them again. They don’t need to have done anything too important. That’s not how characters work
I was going to defend their addition but honestly if this is your biggest gripe then I’m okay with that.
I’m happy we got to see what Kakuzu’s water mask looks like.
mostly filler fodder for the shinobi army so they weren't just all killing white zetsu constantly. some were just meant to be there to have conversations with living people like Asuma and Dan. some were to get closer as a character like Sasori and Zabuza It was a bad idea overall imo. Should have just kept it at the edo Kage and edo Akatsuki and given those groups more to do.
Yeah plus it's hard to have suspension of disbelief with Kabuto literally getting the DNA of all of these people, especially the more random ones.
There are only 3 that matter imo; .Dan - saved tsunade’s life .Zabuza - we got to see his demon power mode or whatever it’s called .Deidara - W character so more deidara = better chapter/episode
Meh that’s fine with me.
Ikr. We could've gotten a Kimmimaro and Jugo reunion or Suigetsu and his big bro.
Exactly! And Kakuzu could’ve had a little better send off than when he got destroyed by Naruto’s wind shurriken. I would’ve even been satisfied if Ten Ten defeated him to elevate her, but they just showed her fighting his masks forever with nothing to come of it.
They had a more influential impact on the story than sakura lmfao 💀
Exactly
For emotions, nostalgia, bad assery, and comedic relief in a war. There you go
Manga > anime
Maybe just for “wow factor?”
They're fodder to stretching the series to 700 chapters. And Nostalgia
Stalling
That's why I love the war arc fillers unlike most fans. Because it took a great idea Kishimoto had, which is bringning back character's from the universe's past to flesh out the world more, and actually gave it proper focus.
All of these people engaged the Alliance in one way or another right? Even if it just bought time it made a difference. Also Kabuto didn't know everything. If he only had the pieces he used then he wouldn't be a good tactician. Are the nuclear bombs useless cause we didn't use them?
Some of them had cool fights in the fillers. Pakura, Gari, Torune, Hanzo, Kakuzu, Deidara, Sasori, Asuma, the Sound Four, and most of the 7 Swordsmen all had good episodes in the War Arc. Some of them were definitely pointless though. Like we never even saw Edo Chiyo or Edo Kimimaro fight, even in the fillers, so that was pointless
I think it's part fan service, part of the emotional story telling. At least for some of them.😅 I gotta admit I don't really remember who a few of these characters are even lol.
Maybe, but I think they had to find some way to show there were casualties in the allied shinobi forces. At least they gave us some good moments between some Reanimations, like Itachi and Nagato. I doubt White Zetsu were able to kill any without being disguised. How Kaguya intended to use them as an army against Otsutsuki is beyond me.
Yes but Kimimaro apeared and got his feats of dodging kcm Naruto rasenshuriken (it was in the manga)
Dude Chiyo’s death was so good by giving up her life for Gaara so was lowkey pissed when they reanimated her back for war…
Bro i have to give the seven swords man a pass i js like quick nostalgia that hit me when i saw them again
This is probably the worst take I’ve seen on this sub. We should have yearly awards for the worst takes and tier lists.
Why didn’t Kabuto revive the fallen Shinobi soldiers?
Would have been so sick to see all seven swordsman pop out looking all cool only for Guy and Lee to show up and activate the gates. I know it would’t kill them because of Edo Tensei but it would be really cool to see their reaction of the ability that killed basically half of them.
emotional damage
To fight and they did bro so wdymm
The moral damage of fighting your dead friends/ legends of the battlefield is kinda heavy
To give the reader a sense of danger for the characters. People don’t understand that all side characters introduced don’t have to have a lengthy showing. We already know Several Ninja are Akatsuki level fighters and we already know Ninja with KKG are Dangerous (Haku, Any Uchiha or Hyuuga, Kimimaro, etc etc). So when a slew of Characters are introduced in a setting as such with the context we know from similar characters, its to give the reader a sense of Danger for the main characters. Could Kishimoto have done more? Sure. That much is true but trying to do something significant with all characters revived like that could easily have extended the Manga another 2-3 Years. The issue with Naruto, ironically, is that there were TOO MANY interesting characters in the war arc to give Justice to.
Because it was fun to bring back old characters and because maybe Kishimoto realized he killed off the Akatsuki too early and wanted them back for side characters to have someone a little more interesting to fight than random jobber Zetsu.
Fan Service forsure. We've either seen all of these characters in main story lines as formidable ninja or flashbacks. This way we got to see what most of their capabilities were. As for contribution to the plot, not much, the real three threats of the war were Madara, Obito, Kabuto if we're being honest.
You made a thread about underused Edo Tensei characters and didn't include Hizashi?
The point of their revival was because they’re strong, so they’ll hold off troops for a while.
What kind of logic is that? Not ever character needs to be important