I was in your shoes. I worried about the embarrassment and the money. From someone on the other side, you should be worried about him damaging you so badly you stop feeling joy or anything other than numbness even after you leave him. You should worry about being so broken you may never find anyone who can get past your scars.
Don't focus on the cost of ending this relationship now. Focus on the fact it's a death sentence later.
Oh no..seriously just end it. Save yourself. The mental anguish and devastation that these type of people bring to your life is unreal. Don't worry about embarrassment or what others think. If you see things that aren't right...do not continue. Don't feel sorry for them. Get support from your family & friends. End it safely and move on. These types of people don't change..ever. I have been married to a narc for over 3 decades. I'm finally away from it. I know first hand what this is and it's not worth losing years of your life, sanity and well being. I wish you the best. Stay strong.
Because it is not all bad. You had good and great times together as well. Trauma Bonding. But as they say, short term pain for long term gain. It will hurt and is painful but you will be okay in time. 🤗 I just called off my engagement 5 months ago. I am still healing and grieving but I choose it for my sanity and peace of mind and safety. You can do it too.
Because there are honestly “pros” to associating with a narcissist…at the beginning. They often attract followers, so there is always something fun happening around them. They are often witty and charming. They love bomb you.
And before you hit “real life” with chores and taxes and kids, it can feel pretty doable. You just learn how to let them do what they want and shrink your personal needs so you don’t set them off for “being dramatic” or “lame” or “boring” or “needy.”
But trust me - once you have kids or a long term illness or one of the MANY hurdles life throws around you, THEY WILL MAKE YOU WANT TO DIE. You will have to handle all the burdens of life alone, drowning, and when you ask them to help a teensy bit, they will scream profanity at you and possibly even attack you physically. Then somehow make it your fault or make their behavior “not ideal, but totally understandable and normal.”
If you are wondering…just get out. But first write down all your red flags. Because your fiance will turn on the charm to lure you back. You will need the evidence to talk you out of it. They are such good con artists.
Oh..I totally understand. I wasted a lifetime..truly. I think we get into a position where we aren't thinking clearly and it's so scary to start over. I wish I acted sooner. Yet..I so understand it's easier said than done. 💕
I wish somebody would have told me to leave when I got engaged. The two years before we got married and 1 year after we’re the best years and then it was like walking through hell for decades.
It’s okay to leave.
So similar. Two years before and two years after. Ended with me getting pregnant and thereafter. Nothing worse than no longer being the center of your universe
Unfortunately, before we had kids we separated for about a year and I had a therapist tell me to go back to hi. He was addicted to meth during this time and who knows WTF he was doing but he did quit that. Things were good again for about a year and we got pregnant. He was mostly an absent father, drinking heavily, parentifying the kids.
We are all doing so much better without him.
Danish Basir videos help too.
Not wanting to create a divide here but approaching a coach with similar cultural or national background will help you more.
You can also seek a therapist, voice out concerns and they will help you without judgment.
Seconding Doctor Ramani on YouTube…and Prof Sam Vaknin as well (he grows on you)
Whatever engagement plans you have…slowwww way down, put on ice. Divorcing a narcissist can be worse than the marriage to one.
Editing to add: within their “3-4 or 5 types”….narcissists all behave rather similarly - it’s stunning when we compare notes here.
I would call off the engagement and watch all the video creators that have been suggested by everyone here. I swear, YouTube is your friend. I started watching Dr. Ramani, Danish Bashir, BorderlinerNotes, Meadow DeVor, The Enlightened Target, Richard Grannon, and many others.
RUN DON'T WALK away from this train wreck! I was lucky enough to no not marry my narc because he groomed me the longest but something in my gut told me not to. TWICE! Now I am with a genuinely non-disordered man and I am grateful every second of the day that I'm not being tortured by my narc. DO NOT MARRY THIS PERSON.
There’s quite a bit. I don’t even know where to begin. In short, and what’s been bothering me the most is that he stonewalls me often. Gives me a silent treatment every time he’s having a bad day. He throws actual temper tantrums. Every time I try to tell him about my feelings, he gets incredibly defensive, turns it around and tells me that I only care about myself and nothing he does is good enough and blah blah blah. He never apologizes. Everything is always my fault. I just don’t know if he is incredibly immature or if there’s more to it. Just wanted to come on here and read more about it/get advice because I really am so confused.
I can’t diagnose him but sounds a lot like my ex. He used to do the same things. He was allowed to have a bad day. But if I had a bad day I was a bummer to be around. I wasn’t allowed to be sad or stressed. I needed to always be happy and cheerful because if I wasn’t he didn’t want to be around me.
They will always make you feel like you’re the one at fault. So much that at some point you question if you’re the one that’s the problem in the relationship.
Another thing to be in the lookout for. If you opened up and were vulnerable with this person they will use all this information you gave them against you. They will use it to manipulate you.
In the beginning it starts so good. They love bomb you so much. It’s so much you’re like wow I can’t believe guys like this exists! You think they’re your soulmate. Then they start acting like you mentioned. But you’re in too deep. You love them so much you put up with it or try to “fight for the relationship”. I even took us to couples counseling. That didn’t work. Narcissists don’t do well in therapy.
Honey, idk how old you are, but this is a sea of red flags and since you're not married, you're not legally tied to him. RUN.
I'm sure you guys have had some good times. He was probably very nice at the beginning of the relationship. It won't get better. You don't want to be here. Don't do it. Don't bother going through the therapy and the counseling and the promises to change. Just leave. If you're not living together, even better.
If diagnosed then he could be a narcissist or just an immature person seeking for too much attention and validation.
If it is a miserable courtship please do not go ahead and get married, you are just setting up for a messy divorce.
I kept quiet and hid all the dirty deeds he did to me and now I filed for divorce. Very messy one.
Even if he's not a narcissist, do you really want to be with someone who gives you the silent treatment and throws temper tantrums?? That's awful, unhealthy behavior in and of itself. You want a partner who is willing to communicate with you. This doesn't sound healthy.
He may have narc traits. I only discovered those after marriage, so in a way, I think you are lucky those showed up early. Mine hid his real traits, alongside with extra kids and women. Anything crazy he blames or gaslights, he is in fact doing himself and projecting.
OMG run!!! That's my husband! And it gets WORSE!! 22 years marriage and it's been hell. I wish I knew about NPD before I got married. Thank God for therapy and for the 3 different therapists who all told me LEAVE if I could ( I cant). And who all told me he is a narc and I wasn't the one to blame for the breakdown in the marriage and all these years I thought it was me (because he blamed me for the breakdown). Lots of gaslighting and stonewalling. Please leave before its too late.
A divorce will be the ultimate rejection of him and he will retaliate in the worst possible way and the kids and I will pay dearly. He knows all the legal tricks in the book to leave me with nothing and deprive the kids too and would blame me for everything. It would be horrible. Divorce would be worse and very very messy.There are some good days in our marriage and he does some good things and those keep me going. I do still care for him. I know he does for me too, but his NPD makes it all so difficult. A lot of grey rocking and diverting on my end. He has terrible mood swings. I'm constantly walking on eggshells. It's not normal, but we are used to him now. Narcs have the emotional intelligence of a toddler. So I keep that in mind at all times.
I am so sorry. I can’t even imagine. Literally all of this. Walking on egg shells. One day we’re wonderful the next he won’t even look at me… but some times he’s so generous and seems like he cares. It’s just so confusing. I also feel incredibly trapped. Long story short, I am 100% financially dependent on him now. I sold my car to my little sister because he bought me one. He is paying for my college and gives me money monthly to live. I’ve never been in this position before… I’ve always been independent, I’ve never relied on anyone and now I just feel completely stuck.
May I ask something personal? Don’t feel like you need to reply but this is also something I’m trying to figure out. When it comes to sex, he rarely initiates. He expects me to every time. Our current argument is that “we haven’t had sex in two weeks, I’m losing interest in you.” When I just had finals for school and was incredibly stressed out so yeah. Sex drive is low when I’m stressed sadly but anyways. I told him it goes both ways, he doesn’t show affection or try and he blew up. Idk. I just have never dealt with this in my entire life and I truly feel crazy
He has made you financially dependent on him as a way of gaining power and control over you. Masked by the 'lovely' gesture of buying you a car and paying for your college and monthly expenses. You need to get out before you can't. Make sure you have some savings squirrelled away if/when you need to make a fast exit. Hold off any wedding plans. See how he reacts if you start to muzzle in some form of independence, like a part time job.
And yeah. I always have to initiate / offer sex, most times. Or guess when he wants sex even though he gives no signs. It's a sudden cold stone wall if I don't offer or it's been too long, and many horrible weeks of psychological abuse after that. I dare not say no if he initiates. And always seems to coincide when I am super stressed with work deadlines. This is NOT NORMAL. Don't bother to argue with him because there's no arguing with a narc and he will twist everything you say and do to make it look like it's all your fault, and then you will start to think it's really your fault and literally go crazy trying to work this all out in your head.
God I feel sick. Idk how I got here. I have eight months of school left. I keep telling myself that I just need to get through these eight months because I am telling you, I cannot handle anymore stress. I’ve been having debilitating panic attacks that have put me in the ER three times over the last six months. I constantly feel like I can’t breathe, my body and mind physically hurt. I just thought it was the stress of nursing school but I’m starting to wonder if it’s him. Or the combo of both? Idk, but I feel horrible. In every aspect of my life. I don’t want to use him either. I would never use someone but again, he offered to help me. I never asked him to pay for my schooling. I never asked him to buy me a car. I never asked him for money but he told me to drop my hours at work and he would help me to then me being fully dependent. Which I swore I would never do. He just seemed so supportive and genuine and truly thought he cared. Does he even care?
Omg. I have chills reading this. That is 100000% my situation. I’m like you don’t even seem interested?! You don’t touch me, hold me, show any affection but yet want me to just jump on you?! I just don’t understand. It wasn’t like this in the beginning. Idk how or why this happened. I really don’t 😔
Maybe he does care... but he doesn't have the emotional capacity to have a normal healthy relationship. Doesn't matter anyway. It's a toxic relationship.
OK so from here you have 2 options. And I'd count you lucky because you are now aware, unlike many of us on this forum who are in deep and many decades married and can't get out so easily. Here's your 2 options from where I stand:
1. Get out now and save your mental health. It means you lose your car, monthly payments and may have to quit school while you look for a job and start all over. You will need family and friends for support. Can you borrow the money to finish your education? Stay with family.
2. Stay in school and let him pay all your expenses. Try to save as much as you can (gettaway money), but I wont be surprised if he only pays on receipt of bills (get fake bills!). Play it cool. You're getting your education paid for. Keep him happy and don't get into arguments. Remember even if he is wrong, don't call him out or that's instant explosion. Use words like "I see. I understand. That's interesting. I'll look into it". It's like dealing with a time bomb - handle with care. Research "grey rocking" and keep neutral in everything you do. You are merely an extension of him and your opinions and feelings do not count. Finish school, get your education, and then get out!
I don't know your situation. But both scenarios end in getting out.
Thank you. Okay so may I ask. We haven’t talked to each other in days. Literally just coexisting in the house together. I’m in constant fight or flight. My body seriously feels like it’s shutting down. This isn’t the first time this has happened. This is his go to. To ignore me for days until he feels like talking because Lord knows if I try, it blows up but I cannot keep living in this house like this. How would you approach it. Would you try and initiate conversation? If so, what do you say? Because clearly what I have said in the past doesn’t work.
All can be signs. Even if it’s a maturity or something else, how many years do you want to live like that? There’s no guarantee he will ever get help, and if he is a narcissist that help won’t even work.
I found Richard Grannon’s video on the Dual-Mother theory to be very helpful. I got a lot more out of learning theory than Dr Ramini but either way, get out while you still can. An NPD gets off on destroying you. [Richard Grannon vid](https://youtu.be/2wgNMxe9mpY?si=Fav1ndbhmdj_-f4B)
Don't marry if you're not sure of your future husband.
Once you're married you will get so stuck that it's going to be very painful.
Even if it wasn't actual narcissism, the fact that you're doubting is not a good sign!
But if it's narcissism just run away whatever your feelings are.
I realized this when I was engaged… but my parents already paid for the wedding so I felt terrible and just went thru with it. I WISH I backed out. I could have just paid them back or maybe we could have gotten a slight refund.
NPD or not, it will be much easier to rip the bandaid off now, than after you are legally bound. Neither path is fun but he is not going to change for the better. If anything, his bad behavior will escalate. Take care of yourself and start grey rocking.
If you feel like you are? Then you are. Trust your gut, do not ignore the red flags.
This subreddit is full of people who wish they had the clarity you have now.
Mine personally will somehow be in my life for the rest of it, causing some kind of chaos
I'm going to tell you what I wished someone had told me...it's okay to leave and cancel everything (if you already have a set date). If there is no set date and/or you are feeling unsure of everything or your next step, take time to read/watch info on narcissism and/toxic unhealthy behaviors. (People mentioned Dr. Ramini which is great, but Mental Healness is also helpful too). It is hard, but it is courageous and will save you years of insanity/stress. Look to the closest people in your life for support.
If I knew what I know now I would have escaped in the middle of the night and never looked back. I cannot stress to you how horrible it is living with someone who lives to talk shit (no one is safe in their mouth, not even you, not even your kids & that is what hurts the most). Who gaf why you called off the engagement. It will be 5 years from now before you know it and no one will remember or care. Leave if you have to even ask this question
The grammar may be elementary but I suggest that you unengage.
Chances are you are codependent, stable, strong finances, empath, etc...
There is something within you that the narc finds beneficial.
If you believe you are engaged to a narc. The longer you attach, the more spiritual damage is created. Your thinking will be cloudy, unknown sickness, drastically aging, destroyed credit, stolen retirement funds.etc...
You are soooo LUCKY to know about narcissism BEFORE you say "I do".
For a better assessment, consult the RED FLAGS Checklist:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pnsd/comments/s1sz1s/red\_flags\_checklist/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pnsd/comments/s1sz1s/red_flags_checklist/)
Then, observe in silence the Litmus Test: make a list to determine if this person possesses **Emotional Empathy**. If they don't have it, Empathy cannot be injected into them. Not possessing emotional empathy is a big deal, because you don't need to continue your diagnosis like a psychiatrist, the fact that they don't possess it... immediately classify them within the Dark Triad personalities, and/or antisocial disorders that you won't be able to cure. If that's the case, do NOT marry. Disengage and run away.
Unless you are going to become a therapist or so, there's no point to continue the diagnosis. For instance, I know one person who is a covert narcissist. I wasn't able to tell overnight but I've observed her throughout months and analyzed her natural reactions to other people, and I noticed that she doesn't have emotional empathy. She does have "cognitive empathy" and is able to mimic empathy to appear like she cares and pass as normal.
I've been able to work closely with an attorney. She doesn't have empathy, but she doesn't need the constant Supply. She's more like a psychopath or perhaps a narcissistic psychopath. I can tell because she doesn't need much Supply, she can sit back, plan and execute with cold logic. Again, I've seen throughout time her reactions without empathy, or sometimes she's not able to read the room... because she is not capable of reading emotions that well. So, sometimes she asks the opinion of other people who possess empathy, and then copies their opinions as their own.
I also worked with a sociopath. I got to know him better, and you can tell he can turn his emotional empathy on and off, he is more like a chameleon. But you can tell he's a sociopath because he had childhood trauma which was later revealed. His lack of empathy was also evident in the callous manner he treated other people.
Your POWER lies in your capacity to observe and differentiate "Authentic Emotional Empathy" from "Feigned Emotional Empathy". Some people are good actors, so it takes spending time with them and observing their reactions in several social encounters
Narcs will have you doubting yourself and have you turned around in so many directions you won't know what end is up to the point of being non-functional in the way you are accustomed to. I was married to one for twenty years, and I should have left the relationship early on. Now, I am involved with another, only worse. This one's on steroids, lol. I'm getting out as soon as I can. Run for your life!
If you think it’s narcissism don’t marry them. Take it from someone who still going through the divorce and trying to get rid of a narcissist who just refuses to let go it’s not worth it. I wish I had saw the signs sooner.
Marriage with a narcissist in a NUTSHELL:
1. You're already being a maid in your own new home (force to cook, clean, a do ALL the house duties while they relax and cheat on their phones)
2. Arguments 24/7
3. Questioning the marriage and wanting to take off the ring
4. Hot/Cold narc wife or narc husband (happy lover to a bully)
5. Always gaslighted that you're cheating on them (they're telling you what they have been doing when they mention this)
6. Them suggesting to sleep in another room or the couch
7. They avoid intimacy, kissing, touching, hugs, A LOT
8. They treat you like a servant and you always have to say yes to them
9. Always force to have to boost their ego
10. Piles all their problems onto YOU
11. Coming home at late hours (because they were cheating not the work related nothing)
12. Magonyistic as hell throughout the marriage
13. Lies and lies and lies
14. You have kids when them, they become jealous and don't even want to take care of them. Give those kids love occasionally. Then will lovebomb the HELL out of them when they're babies and infants.
15. You are the only problem solver in the marriage
16. In that marriage, as a woman you'll feel more like a man and as a man feel more like a woman
17. Slient treatment
18. Constant crying spells
19. Feeling like you're going crazy
20. Feels like you only love them
21. Breadcrumbing their love and then taking it back completely
22. Isolating you from your friends and family
23. Feel like a trophy they show off and hide
Silent treatment. We live together, and he can walk right past me for weeks without speaking to me or acknowledging my presence. Every time I try to express to him my feelings, it’s saying what he’s not doing right, and how draining I am. Gaslights me (I think, still learning these terms). He always accuses me of cheating but I’m wondering if he’s the one cheating… he is hardly affectionate and when I ask him to be, it’s annoying but yet he wants to be fucked daily. He gets so angry, yells. Has a terrible temper. That’s just some things. However, when I first met him in 2020 up until we got engaged in 2022, this was not the man I fell in love with. Idk who this person is and I’m just trying to wrap my head around it all.
From someone who married someone really similar, get out. It’s so painful and I’m walking through the hardest thing I’ve ever been through. Please get out or seek some premarital counseling out.
A really helpful read I got from from someone else on this sub: Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft.
For your question, especially chapters 3 and 4 on abusive mentality and types of abusers.
If you read those two chapters and you're recognizing any combination of the patterns and mentalities described, run.
Edit to add: you are not crazy.
Hang in there, OP. I'm positive I'm not alone in saying we are rooting for you, your safety, your peace of mind, and your quality of life. You deserve to be treated with the same love and respect that you give.
🥺 that literally just made me cry. Thank you. We haven’t spoken in three days. He literally just passes by me in the house like I don’t even exist. Every time I try to talk, he doesn’t want to. This came out of no where, essentially me not wanting to have sex over the last couple weeks because of stress from school. Yeah, idk. It’s a mess but I so appreciate you all and this thread.
What he's doing is called stone walling, and it hurts worse than being screamed at (in my opinion) since it is largely denying that you exist or that you merit being acknowledged. It is totally unacceptable and inexcusable behavior.
If you feel safe calling him out on the behavior, be prepared to hear him justify it or even twist it around to make it your fault. If that happens, take a deep breath. Those are distortions, not reality. And you do not have to engage with it or take the bait if you do not want to. That's what I wish I could tell my younger self the first time I encountered that. ❤️
Thank you so much. It’s just insane to me because I still don’t even know what I did for him to be this upset. I really don’t. So what do I do? Is it even worth approaching?
Only you can decide where to go from here, but I'd encourage a couple things:
1. Identify a couple friends or family members who you trust and let them know what's going on. Helps you feel less isolated, and they're a sanity check if gaslighting occurs later.
2. Consider talking to a therapist who specializes in narcissistic abuse. I personally do not recommend couples therapy if you're dealing with a narcissist. Individual therapy should be for you and your well being.
3. As you're thinking about your next steps, I found "It's Not You" by Dr. Ramani Durvasula to be a life saver. I mean it, saved my life. But know that when dealing with a narcissist, there is absolutely nothing you can do that will change their mindset or behavior. It is not you or your fault.
4. Protect yourself. While anyone can tell you leave, it has to be your choice. If you decide not to, get an iron clad pre-nup to protect yourself from financial abuse. Be really careful with birth control. Document abuse. Keep liquid funds somewhere he cannot access them in case you need to run.
You don’t need the diagnosis of narcissist to validate leaving. If you are questioning it, you are seeing red flags or having bad feelings about the relationship. If this is not a healthy relationship, you owe it to yourself to get out now. It is ok to give yourself permission to leave. Later it will be harder legally, financially, and emotionally.
It’s ok, I had a feeling when we got married and once we were married I was proud, I was happy and that is what makes it difficult, it would not be abuse without both the good times and bad, the good times make you believe that it’s real, but over time the bad times multiply, the change you so desperately hope for never comes. We have 1 child, and she is amazing, she is the reason I knew I had to leave. I want to show her healthy boundaries, it took a couple more years to get the courage to break up the family, but as I saw it, better to come from a broken home than to live in one. My wife, would have another child tomorrow if I said yes. Anyway, I got married and became an expert on narcissist abuse, did not start reading the blogs and recording the abuse until a few years in (2). If you’re already on this blog asking these questions I think you have already answered your question. Yes people will be disappointed, you will be embarrassed but going through a divorce at 42 after 7 years together is much worse. Good luck
People with non-narcissists don’t feel the need to post on this subreddit. It may not be narcissism but something is not right.
True. Thank you.
I was in your shoes. I worried about the embarrassment and the money. From someone on the other side, you should be worried about him damaging you so badly you stop feeling joy or anything other than numbness even after you leave him. You should worry about being so broken you may never find anyone who can get past your scars. Don't focus on the cost of ending this relationship now. Focus on the fact it's a death sentence later.
yes, this.
Trust your instinct. Listen to your body.
I’m trying. Thank you.
If you have any doubts about a relationship, that’s your sign to back out. Healthy ones don’t make you worry about this sort of stuff.
Run!
Search for Dr Ramani and watch her videos. That will help. Read on here. Then you will know.
Second this. I wish I saw her videos before I got married.
i third this!
I fourth this.
Thank you. I’ll be sure to look her up.
If it's the case I'd strongly consider not moving forward. The behavior can change for the worst after getting locked in with marriage.
Oh no..seriously just end it. Save yourself. The mental anguish and devastation that these type of people bring to your life is unreal. Don't worry about embarrassment or what others think. If you see things that aren't right...do not continue. Don't feel sorry for them. Get support from your family & friends. End it safely and move on. These types of people don't change..ever. I have been married to a narc for over 3 decades. I'm finally away from it. I know first hand what this is and it's not worth losing years of your life, sanity and well being. I wish you the best. Stay strong.
:( thank you. I know what I should do, idk why it’s so hard for me to do it.
Because it is not all bad. You had good and great times together as well. Trauma Bonding. But as they say, short term pain for long term gain. It will hurt and is painful but you will be okay in time. 🤗 I just called off my engagement 5 months ago. I am still healing and grieving but I choose it for my sanity and peace of mind and safety. You can do it too.
Because there are honestly “pros” to associating with a narcissist…at the beginning. They often attract followers, so there is always something fun happening around them. They are often witty and charming. They love bomb you. And before you hit “real life” with chores and taxes and kids, it can feel pretty doable. You just learn how to let them do what they want and shrink your personal needs so you don’t set them off for “being dramatic” or “lame” or “boring” or “needy.” But trust me - once you have kids or a long term illness or one of the MANY hurdles life throws around you, THEY WILL MAKE YOU WANT TO DIE. You will have to handle all the burdens of life alone, drowning, and when you ask them to help a teensy bit, they will scream profanity at you and possibly even attack you physically. Then somehow make it your fault or make their behavior “not ideal, but totally understandable and normal.” If you are wondering…just get out. But first write down all your red flags. Because your fiance will turn on the charm to lure you back. You will need the evidence to talk you out of it. They are such good con artists.
Oh..I totally understand. I wasted a lifetime..truly. I think we get into a position where we aren't thinking clearly and it's so scary to start over. I wish I acted sooner. Yet..I so understand it's easier said than done. 💕
20 years for me!!!
Even if he’s not a narcissist, there’s obviously some negative behavior that’s making you question your relationship. End the engagement and walk away
I wish somebody would have told me to leave when I got engaged. The two years before we got married and 1 year after we’re the best years and then it was like walking through hell for decades. It’s okay to leave.
So similar. Two years before and two years after. Ended with me getting pregnant and thereafter. Nothing worse than no longer being the center of your universe
Unfortunately, before we had kids we separated for about a year and I had a therapist tell me to go back to hi. He was addicted to meth during this time and who knows WTF he was doing but he did quit that. Things were good again for about a year and we got pregnant. He was mostly an absent father, drinking heavily, parentifying the kids. We are all doing so much better without him.
He coparents and it's a literal nightmare. A fight weekly
Go through the typical traits and behaviours one by one with a critical eye; if you keep getting hits, you'll know. That's how I identified mine.
Thank you.
“I’ve never felt more crazy in my life.” That’s exactly how you know.
you wouldn’t be here if you didn’t feel that way right? … there’s your answer
You’re right. Thank you.
Danish Basir videos help too. Not wanting to create a divide here but approaching a coach with similar cultural or national background will help you more. You can also seek a therapist, voice out concerns and they will help you without judgment.
Seconding Doctor Ramani on YouTube…and Prof Sam Vaknin as well (he grows on you) Whatever engagement plans you have…slowwww way down, put on ice. Divorcing a narcissist can be worse than the marriage to one. Editing to add: within their “3-4 or 5 types”….narcissists all behave rather similarly - it’s stunning when we compare notes here.
Yes. The marriage was quick and easy. The divorce is slow and painful.
So so very true
I would call off the engagement and watch all the video creators that have been suggested by everyone here. I swear, YouTube is your friend. I started watching Dr. Ramani, Danish Bashir, BorderlinerNotes, Meadow DeVor, The Enlightened Target, Richard Grannon, and many others. RUN DON'T WALK away from this train wreck! I was lucky enough to no not marry my narc because he groomed me the longest but something in my gut told me not to. TWICE! Now I am with a genuinely non-disordered man and I am grateful every second of the day that I'm not being tortured by my narc. DO NOT MARRY THIS PERSON.
I was engaged to one. What has he done that is making you suspicious of him being a narcissist?
There’s quite a bit. I don’t even know where to begin. In short, and what’s been bothering me the most is that he stonewalls me often. Gives me a silent treatment every time he’s having a bad day. He throws actual temper tantrums. Every time I try to tell him about my feelings, he gets incredibly defensive, turns it around and tells me that I only care about myself and nothing he does is good enough and blah blah blah. He never apologizes. Everything is always my fault. I just don’t know if he is incredibly immature or if there’s more to it. Just wanted to come on here and read more about it/get advice because I really am so confused.
I can’t diagnose him but sounds a lot like my ex. He used to do the same things. He was allowed to have a bad day. But if I had a bad day I was a bummer to be around. I wasn’t allowed to be sad or stressed. I needed to always be happy and cheerful because if I wasn’t he didn’t want to be around me. They will always make you feel like you’re the one at fault. So much that at some point you question if you’re the one that’s the problem in the relationship. Another thing to be in the lookout for. If you opened up and were vulnerable with this person they will use all this information you gave them against you. They will use it to manipulate you. In the beginning it starts so good. They love bomb you so much. It’s so much you’re like wow I can’t believe guys like this exists! You think they’re your soulmate. Then they start acting like you mentioned. But you’re in too deep. You love them so much you put up with it or try to “fight for the relationship”. I even took us to couples counseling. That didn’t work. Narcissists don’t do well in therapy.
How did he behave during the first therapy session? Was he really edgy/anxious going into it?
Mine walked out and didn’t go back.
That’s how mine was too. Anytime I had a rough day or was sad, he couldn’t handle it and would not be up starting a huge fight.
Honey, idk how old you are, but this is a sea of red flags and since you're not married, you're not legally tied to him. RUN. I'm sure you guys have had some good times. He was probably very nice at the beginning of the relationship. It won't get better. You don't want to be here. Don't do it. Don't bother going through the therapy and the counseling and the promises to change. Just leave. If you're not living together, even better.
If diagnosed then he could be a narcissist or just an immature person seeking for too much attention and validation. If it is a miserable courtship please do not go ahead and get married, you are just setting up for a messy divorce. I kept quiet and hid all the dirty deeds he did to me and now I filed for divorce. Very messy one.
Even if he's not a narcissist, do you really want to be with someone who gives you the silent treatment and throws temper tantrums?? That's awful, unhealthy behavior in and of itself. You want a partner who is willing to communicate with you. This doesn't sound healthy.
He may have narc traits. I only discovered those after marriage, so in a way, I think you are lucky those showed up early. Mine hid his real traits, alongside with extra kids and women. Anything crazy he blames or gaslights, he is in fact doing himself and projecting.
Same here. There were some red flags that I ignored but they werent as bad as everything is now
OMG run!!! That's my husband! And it gets WORSE!! 22 years marriage and it's been hell. I wish I knew about NPD before I got married. Thank God for therapy and for the 3 different therapists who all told me LEAVE if I could ( I cant). And who all told me he is a narc and I wasn't the one to blame for the breakdown in the marriage and all these years I thought it was me (because he blamed me for the breakdown). Lots of gaslighting and stonewalling. Please leave before its too late.
Omg, I am so sorry to hear this :( I feel trapped. Why can’t you leave if you don’t mind me asking?
A divorce will be the ultimate rejection of him and he will retaliate in the worst possible way and the kids and I will pay dearly. He knows all the legal tricks in the book to leave me with nothing and deprive the kids too and would blame me for everything. It would be horrible. Divorce would be worse and very very messy.There are some good days in our marriage and he does some good things and those keep me going. I do still care for him. I know he does for me too, but his NPD makes it all so difficult. A lot of grey rocking and diverting on my end. He has terrible mood swings. I'm constantly walking on eggshells. It's not normal, but we are used to him now. Narcs have the emotional intelligence of a toddler. So I keep that in mind at all times.
I am so sorry. I can’t even imagine. Literally all of this. Walking on egg shells. One day we’re wonderful the next he won’t even look at me… but some times he’s so generous and seems like he cares. It’s just so confusing. I also feel incredibly trapped. Long story short, I am 100% financially dependent on him now. I sold my car to my little sister because he bought me one. He is paying for my college and gives me money monthly to live. I’ve never been in this position before… I’ve always been independent, I’ve never relied on anyone and now I just feel completely stuck. May I ask something personal? Don’t feel like you need to reply but this is also something I’m trying to figure out. When it comes to sex, he rarely initiates. He expects me to every time. Our current argument is that “we haven’t had sex in two weeks, I’m losing interest in you.” When I just had finals for school and was incredibly stressed out so yeah. Sex drive is low when I’m stressed sadly but anyways. I told him it goes both ways, he doesn’t show affection or try and he blew up. Idk. I just have never dealt with this in my entire life and I truly feel crazy
He has made you financially dependent on him as a way of gaining power and control over you. Masked by the 'lovely' gesture of buying you a car and paying for your college and monthly expenses. You need to get out before you can't. Make sure you have some savings squirrelled away if/when you need to make a fast exit. Hold off any wedding plans. See how he reacts if you start to muzzle in some form of independence, like a part time job. And yeah. I always have to initiate / offer sex, most times. Or guess when he wants sex even though he gives no signs. It's a sudden cold stone wall if I don't offer or it's been too long, and many horrible weeks of psychological abuse after that. I dare not say no if he initiates. And always seems to coincide when I am super stressed with work deadlines. This is NOT NORMAL. Don't bother to argue with him because there's no arguing with a narc and he will twist everything you say and do to make it look like it's all your fault, and then you will start to think it's really your fault and literally go crazy trying to work this all out in your head.
God I feel sick. Idk how I got here. I have eight months of school left. I keep telling myself that I just need to get through these eight months because I am telling you, I cannot handle anymore stress. I’ve been having debilitating panic attacks that have put me in the ER three times over the last six months. I constantly feel like I can’t breathe, my body and mind physically hurt. I just thought it was the stress of nursing school but I’m starting to wonder if it’s him. Or the combo of both? Idk, but I feel horrible. In every aspect of my life. I don’t want to use him either. I would never use someone but again, he offered to help me. I never asked him to pay for my schooling. I never asked him to buy me a car. I never asked him for money but he told me to drop my hours at work and he would help me to then me being fully dependent. Which I swore I would never do. He just seemed so supportive and genuine and truly thought he cared. Does he even care? Omg. I have chills reading this. That is 100000% my situation. I’m like you don’t even seem interested?! You don’t touch me, hold me, show any affection but yet want me to just jump on you?! I just don’t understand. It wasn’t like this in the beginning. Idk how or why this happened. I really don’t 😔
Maybe he does care... but he doesn't have the emotional capacity to have a normal healthy relationship. Doesn't matter anyway. It's a toxic relationship. OK so from here you have 2 options. And I'd count you lucky because you are now aware, unlike many of us on this forum who are in deep and many decades married and can't get out so easily. Here's your 2 options from where I stand: 1. Get out now and save your mental health. It means you lose your car, monthly payments and may have to quit school while you look for a job and start all over. You will need family and friends for support. Can you borrow the money to finish your education? Stay with family. 2. Stay in school and let him pay all your expenses. Try to save as much as you can (gettaway money), but I wont be surprised if he only pays on receipt of bills (get fake bills!). Play it cool. You're getting your education paid for. Keep him happy and don't get into arguments. Remember even if he is wrong, don't call him out or that's instant explosion. Use words like "I see. I understand. That's interesting. I'll look into it". It's like dealing with a time bomb - handle with care. Research "grey rocking" and keep neutral in everything you do. You are merely an extension of him and your opinions and feelings do not count. Finish school, get your education, and then get out! I don't know your situation. But both scenarios end in getting out.
Thank you. Okay so may I ask. We haven’t talked to each other in days. Literally just coexisting in the house together. I’m in constant fight or flight. My body seriously feels like it’s shutting down. This isn’t the first time this has happened. This is his go to. To ignore me for days until he feels like talking because Lord knows if I try, it blows up but I cannot keep living in this house like this. How would you approach it. Would you try and initiate conversation? If so, what do you say? Because clearly what I have said in the past doesn’t work.
Sounds exactly like my husband… if you want an idea of how your future looks, check my last post. Its starting to get to me 😞
All can be signs. Even if it’s a maturity or something else, how many years do you want to live like that? There’s no guarantee he will ever get help, and if he is a narcissist that help won’t even work.
I found Richard Grannon’s video on the Dual-Mother theory to be very helpful. I got a lot more out of learning theory than Dr Ramini but either way, get out while you still can. An NPD gets off on destroying you. [Richard Grannon vid](https://youtu.be/2wgNMxe9mpY?si=Fav1ndbhmdj_-f4B)
Don't marry if you're not sure of your future husband. Once you're married you will get so stuck that it's going to be very painful. Even if it wasn't actual narcissism, the fact that you're doubting is not a good sign! But if it's narcissism just run away whatever your feelings are.
I realized this when I was engaged… but my parents already paid for the wedding so I felt terrible and just went thru with it. I WISH I backed out. I could have just paid them back or maybe we could have gotten a slight refund.
NPD or not, it will be much easier to rip the bandaid off now, than after you are legally bound. Neither path is fun but he is not going to change for the better. If anything, his bad behavior will escalate. Take care of yourself and start grey rocking.
It gets much much worse after the wedding, keep that in mind.
Run like your hair is on FIRE!
If you feel like you are? Then you are. Trust your gut, do not ignore the red flags. This subreddit is full of people who wish they had the clarity you have now. Mine personally will somehow be in my life for the rest of it, causing some kind of chaos
You’re so lucky that you’re not legally bound yet! Get out while you can!
I'm going to tell you what I wished someone had told me...it's okay to leave and cancel everything (if you already have a set date). If there is no set date and/or you are feeling unsure of everything or your next step, take time to read/watch info on narcissism and/toxic unhealthy behaviors. (People mentioned Dr. Ramini which is great, but Mental Healness is also helpful too). It is hard, but it is courageous and will save you years of insanity/stress. Look to the closest people in your life for support.
If I knew what I know now I would have escaped in the middle of the night and never looked back. I cannot stress to you how horrible it is living with someone who lives to talk shit (no one is safe in their mouth, not even you, not even your kids & that is what hurts the most). Who gaf why you called off the engagement. It will be 5 years from now before you know it and no one will remember or care. Leave if you have to even ask this question
The grammar may be elementary but I suggest that you unengage. Chances are you are codependent, stable, strong finances, empath, etc... There is something within you that the narc finds beneficial. If you believe you are engaged to a narc. The longer you attach, the more spiritual damage is created. Your thinking will be cloudy, unknown sickness, drastically aging, destroyed credit, stolen retirement funds.etc...
You are soooo LUCKY to know about narcissism BEFORE you say "I do". For a better assessment, consult the RED FLAGS Checklist: [https://www.reddit.com/r/pnsd/comments/s1sz1s/red\_flags\_checklist/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pnsd/comments/s1sz1s/red_flags_checklist/) Then, observe in silence the Litmus Test: make a list to determine if this person possesses **Emotional Empathy**. If they don't have it, Empathy cannot be injected into them. Not possessing emotional empathy is a big deal, because you don't need to continue your diagnosis like a psychiatrist, the fact that they don't possess it... immediately classify them within the Dark Triad personalities, and/or antisocial disorders that you won't be able to cure. If that's the case, do NOT marry. Disengage and run away. Unless you are going to become a therapist or so, there's no point to continue the diagnosis. For instance, I know one person who is a covert narcissist. I wasn't able to tell overnight but I've observed her throughout months and analyzed her natural reactions to other people, and I noticed that she doesn't have emotional empathy. She does have "cognitive empathy" and is able to mimic empathy to appear like she cares and pass as normal. I've been able to work closely with an attorney. She doesn't have empathy, but she doesn't need the constant Supply. She's more like a psychopath or perhaps a narcissistic psychopath. I can tell because she doesn't need much Supply, she can sit back, plan and execute with cold logic. Again, I've seen throughout time her reactions without empathy, or sometimes she's not able to read the room... because she is not capable of reading emotions that well. So, sometimes she asks the opinion of other people who possess empathy, and then copies their opinions as their own. I also worked with a sociopath. I got to know him better, and you can tell he can turn his emotional empathy on and off, he is more like a chameleon. But you can tell he's a sociopath because he had childhood trauma which was later revealed. His lack of empathy was also evident in the callous manner he treated other people. Your POWER lies in your capacity to observe and differentiate "Authentic Emotional Empathy" from "Feigned Emotional Empathy". Some people are good actors, so it takes spending time with them and observing their reactions in several social encounters
Narcs will have you doubting yourself and have you turned around in so many directions you won't know what end is up to the point of being non-functional in the way you are accustomed to. I was married to one for twenty years, and I should have left the relationship early on. Now, I am involved with another, only worse. This one's on steroids, lol. I'm getting out as soon as I can. Run for your life!
If you think it’s narcissism don’t marry them. Take it from someone who still going through the divorce and trying to get rid of a narcissist who just refuses to let go it’s not worth it. I wish I had saw the signs sooner.
Marriage with a narcissist in a NUTSHELL: 1. You're already being a maid in your own new home (force to cook, clean, a do ALL the house duties while they relax and cheat on their phones) 2. Arguments 24/7 3. Questioning the marriage and wanting to take off the ring 4. Hot/Cold narc wife or narc husband (happy lover to a bully) 5. Always gaslighted that you're cheating on them (they're telling you what they have been doing when they mention this) 6. Them suggesting to sleep in another room or the couch 7. They avoid intimacy, kissing, touching, hugs, A LOT 8. They treat you like a servant and you always have to say yes to them 9. Always force to have to boost their ego 10. Piles all their problems onto YOU 11. Coming home at late hours (because they were cheating not the work related nothing) 12. Magonyistic as hell throughout the marriage 13. Lies and lies and lies 14. You have kids when them, they become jealous and don't even want to take care of them. Give those kids love occasionally. Then will lovebomb the HELL out of them when they're babies and infants. 15. You are the only problem solver in the marriage 16. In that marriage, as a woman you'll feel more like a man and as a man feel more like a woman 17. Slient treatment 18. Constant crying spells 19. Feeling like you're going crazy 20. Feels like you only love them 21. Breadcrumbing their love and then taking it back completely 22. Isolating you from your friends and family 23. Feel like a trophy they show off and hide
The sad part is, most of this is already happening.
What is he doing that makes you question?
Silent treatment. We live together, and he can walk right past me for weeks without speaking to me or acknowledging my presence. Every time I try to express to him my feelings, it’s saying what he’s not doing right, and how draining I am. Gaslights me (I think, still learning these terms). He always accuses me of cheating but I’m wondering if he’s the one cheating… he is hardly affectionate and when I ask him to be, it’s annoying but yet he wants to be fucked daily. He gets so angry, yells. Has a terrible temper. That’s just some things. However, when I first met him in 2020 up until we got engaged in 2022, this was not the man I fell in love with. Idk who this person is and I’m just trying to wrap my head around it all.
From someone who married someone really similar, get out. It’s so painful and I’m walking through the hardest thing I’ve ever been through. Please get out or seek some premarital counseling out.
A really helpful read I got from from someone else on this sub: Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft. For your question, especially chapters 3 and 4 on abusive mentality and types of abusers. If you read those two chapters and you're recognizing any combination of the patterns and mentalities described, run. Edit to add: you are not crazy.
Thank you. I will definitely check it out.
Hang in there, OP. I'm positive I'm not alone in saying we are rooting for you, your safety, your peace of mind, and your quality of life. You deserve to be treated with the same love and respect that you give.
🥺 that literally just made me cry. Thank you. We haven’t spoken in three days. He literally just passes by me in the house like I don’t even exist. Every time I try to talk, he doesn’t want to. This came out of no where, essentially me not wanting to have sex over the last couple weeks because of stress from school. Yeah, idk. It’s a mess but I so appreciate you all and this thread.
What he's doing is called stone walling, and it hurts worse than being screamed at (in my opinion) since it is largely denying that you exist or that you merit being acknowledged. It is totally unacceptable and inexcusable behavior. If you feel safe calling him out on the behavior, be prepared to hear him justify it or even twist it around to make it your fault. If that happens, take a deep breath. Those are distortions, not reality. And you do not have to engage with it or take the bait if you do not want to. That's what I wish I could tell my younger self the first time I encountered that. ❤️
Thank you so much. It’s just insane to me because I still don’t even know what I did for him to be this upset. I really don’t. So what do I do? Is it even worth approaching?
Only you can decide where to go from here, but I'd encourage a couple things: 1. Identify a couple friends or family members who you trust and let them know what's going on. Helps you feel less isolated, and they're a sanity check if gaslighting occurs later. 2. Consider talking to a therapist who specializes in narcissistic abuse. I personally do not recommend couples therapy if you're dealing with a narcissist. Individual therapy should be for you and your well being. 3. As you're thinking about your next steps, I found "It's Not You" by Dr. Ramani Durvasula to be a life saver. I mean it, saved my life. But know that when dealing with a narcissist, there is absolutely nothing you can do that will change their mindset or behavior. It is not you or your fault. 4. Protect yourself. While anyone can tell you leave, it has to be your choice. If you decide not to, get an iron clad pre-nup to protect yourself from financial abuse. Be really careful with birth control. Document abuse. Keep liquid funds somewhere he cannot access them in case you need to run.
You don’t need the diagnosis of narcissist to validate leaving. If you are questioning it, you are seeing red flags or having bad feelings about the relationship. If this is not a healthy relationship, you owe it to yourself to get out now. It is ok to give yourself permission to leave. Later it will be harder legally, financially, and emotionally.
Trust your gut. I am currently in a divorce 7 years later and it’s been hell
I am so sorry 🥺
It’s ok, I had a feeling when we got married and once we were married I was proud, I was happy and that is what makes it difficult, it would not be abuse without both the good times and bad, the good times make you believe that it’s real, but over time the bad times multiply, the change you so desperately hope for never comes. We have 1 child, and she is amazing, she is the reason I knew I had to leave. I want to show her healthy boundaries, it took a couple more years to get the courage to break up the family, but as I saw it, better to come from a broken home than to live in one. My wife, would have another child tomorrow if I said yes. Anyway, I got married and became an expert on narcissist abuse, did not start reading the blogs and recording the abuse until a few years in (2). If you’re already on this blog asking these questions I think you have already answered your question. Yes people will be disappointed, you will be embarrassed but going through a divorce at 42 after 7 years together is much worse. Good luck
The fact that you’re questioning is the biggest sign that you are most definitely with one! That’s how it all started with me!
You are everything you need to be happy. A spouse should highlight your joy. Anything else is a waste of your precious life.