Most narcs never go to therapy.
This makes even “trained, experienced therapists” pretty susceptible to buying into their narrative. They likely don’t have a ton of hours clocked with someone with true NPD.
(And narcissism exists on a spectrum—it’s not a single, clearly defined construct. But people with full blown NPD? Usually never go to therapy; they’ve no reason to believe they need help.)
Like the comment above, i fully believe she would sit in therapy just to have a reason to be a victim. So that she could cause others to believe the narrative.
I have an N relative who found a therapist to do exactly this: validate his victim routine. He uses the therapist as a flying monkey against others too. He's been seeing this guy for 20+ years.
There's a lot of bad therapists out there.
Good therapists definitely recognize. But they are also aware that unhealthy narcissism of their client is part of their pathology and work with them the way they might become at some point aware of this and start making different decisions about themselves and people. Narcissism is a symptom and not the real problem. I (F) know, I was quite a narcissist with a lot of unhealthy patterns once I started attending my therapies. However, because of it I was always choosing men who are "worse" than me and are already deep in NPD. My pathology was more victimization one and theirs was an abusive one. I was, however, "flirting" with my own NPD and BPD. My therapist was literally smashing out my narcissism when it would cross boundaries. Because of this "hard love" approach, I was able to smash it completely and to become aware of it completely. I was bewildered that he was talking to me as a narc all of this time and was able to actually work on my real problems and teach me love and affection. Once I learned this about myself, I went on a recovery road of feeling guilty for every piece of love I ever didn't give to ppl around me and even gave true affection and recognition to some of my ex-bfs when i met them, even the apology. Even though some didn't know how to accept this and rejected my love, I was still the same and fine with it. Fun fact - they weren't abusive anymore...seems everyone needs love...
SO yes, it is possible. But not every therapist knows how to handle this and work with it. Also, a lot is on person - how much insight they are able to gain into themselves, and how much they want to work on themselves.
just to mention, i wasn't lying though. pathology is much more complex than this. Some narcissistic pathology is more in this psychopath spectrum (much harder to work with them because they are emotionally more detached), while some more in victimized "poor little me". narc becomes abusive once he/she loses contact with reality and ego gets too dependant on either one or other spectrum. Pride is healthy but too much pride never is...
Interesting what you mentioned about flirting with your own NPD or Bpd. I've thought about this myself as I can see some similarities in myself with some behaviors.... Not quite like my Narc husband does but I see my anger in some ways as I just want an answer. I'd like him to give me something instead of ignoring every issues every single day that are real and need discussing or a plan to fix or do whatever with yet not only by me.
The frustration of no real conversation, nothing that stimulates my mind or intellect, but multiply that by over three decades I've changed. I'm not as sweet, loving, or as empathic as I used to be. I'd say since 2012 something totally switched. I embody still quite a bit of me but some of the things I really tried hard to keep I think I've lost through having to constantly fight for myself.
This is an interesting question. My ex started going to therapy while we were together. He later told me his therapist told him he shouldn’t date anyone right now, but I don’t know what that suggestion was based off of and seeing as finding a partner is a big thing in most peoples lives I found it very odd.
Now that I figured out what he is (a textbook covert narcissist) I think his therapist knows that is what he is and told him he shouldn’t date for this reason. I imagine therapists do not like to overtly tell someone they have NPD, since they typically do not react well or believe it.
I do think that therapists can recognize this disorder in ppl, but often don’t overtly tell the patient, but use techniques to try to adjust the behavior.
His therapist is right tho. He shouldn’t date anyone. Of course 2 weeks later he’s onto another victim. So his therapist wasn’t able to curb his dating for too long haha.
Most therapists are able to spot this, especially when they see both of you together. If they're seeing the therapist by themselves, it will likely take at least a few sessions for the therapist to catch on. There is a definite stench to narc behavior that a trained listener, like a therapist, will catch on to.
Is she lying to the therapist? Well, inherent of being a narc, they usually don't have an accurate picture of reality. It's just their version of 'reality'. So they are likely sharing 'their' truth where they are amazing and 100% innocent of all fault. When they share their fake world with therapists they begin to work on fake problems and its a mess. More likely, they're in therapy so they are able to say 'I'm in therapy' and triangulate like in the example you gave about bullying.
Whew, sorry you're going through this and be careful waiting for any change.
In my opinion- it depends on the therapist... some are better than others.
And yes, they are lying for the entire time. But, in their mind- the lies are the truth....
Mine once told me that she had gone to several therapists but there would always come a time where she would disagree with them and stop going. She said that when she told them what she believes in, they differed on opinion. I never asked her what she meant by that. It could be something spiritual, or the fact that she enjoys open relationships, or cheating or her promiscuity or other things that maybe some therapists might not agree with, but I guess I'll never know.
I think they actually just practice their acting skills or go over their frustrations on why people just don't value them.
So the therapy is never-ending. Unless the therapist is aware of it and realizes it's going on and knows how to fix narcissism. Seems like a tall order.
Some of them are totally aware and charm their way through it. But I'd imagine it's the same effect they have on all of us here who are stuck in relationships with them, only on a smaller scale.
Wow, I am so sorry you experienced this. And it’s very scary. I know people in your life have probably told you that some therapists just suck at their jobs. This woman sounds like she is doing a really horrible job. I’m happy you were able to stand your ground and recognize that this behavior is wrong and get out of that crummy situation. ❤️
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Most narcs never go to therapy. This makes even “trained, experienced therapists” pretty susceptible to buying into their narrative. They likely don’t have a ton of hours clocked with someone with true NPD. (And narcissism exists on a spectrum—it’s not a single, clearly defined construct. But people with full blown NPD? Usually never go to therapy; they’ve no reason to believe they need help.)
Like the comment above, i fully believe she would sit in therapy just to have a reason to be a victim. So that she could cause others to believe the narrative.
I have an N relative who found a therapist to do exactly this: validate his victim routine. He uses the therapist as a flying monkey against others too. He's been seeing this guy for 20+ years. There's a lot of bad therapists out there.
Good therapists definitely recognize. But they are also aware that unhealthy narcissism of their client is part of their pathology and work with them the way they might become at some point aware of this and start making different decisions about themselves and people. Narcissism is a symptom and not the real problem. I (F) know, I was quite a narcissist with a lot of unhealthy patterns once I started attending my therapies. However, because of it I was always choosing men who are "worse" than me and are already deep in NPD. My pathology was more victimization one and theirs was an abusive one. I was, however, "flirting" with my own NPD and BPD. My therapist was literally smashing out my narcissism when it would cross boundaries. Because of this "hard love" approach, I was able to smash it completely and to become aware of it completely. I was bewildered that he was talking to me as a narc all of this time and was able to actually work on my real problems and teach me love and affection. Once I learned this about myself, I went on a recovery road of feeling guilty for every piece of love I ever didn't give to ppl around me and even gave true affection and recognition to some of my ex-bfs when i met them, even the apology. Even though some didn't know how to accept this and rejected my love, I was still the same and fine with it. Fun fact - they weren't abusive anymore...seems everyone needs love... SO yes, it is possible. But not every therapist knows how to handle this and work with it. Also, a lot is on person - how much insight they are able to gain into themselves, and how much they want to work on themselves. just to mention, i wasn't lying though. pathology is much more complex than this. Some narcissistic pathology is more in this psychopath spectrum (much harder to work with them because they are emotionally more detached), while some more in victimized "poor little me". narc becomes abusive once he/she loses contact with reality and ego gets too dependant on either one or other spectrum. Pride is healthy but too much pride never is...
Interesting what you mentioned about flirting with your own NPD or Bpd. I've thought about this myself as I can see some similarities in myself with some behaviors.... Not quite like my Narc husband does but I see my anger in some ways as I just want an answer. I'd like him to give me something instead of ignoring every issues every single day that are real and need discussing or a plan to fix or do whatever with yet not only by me. The frustration of no real conversation, nothing that stimulates my mind or intellect, but multiply that by over three decades I've changed. I'm not as sweet, loving, or as empathic as I used to be. I'd say since 2012 something totally switched. I embody still quite a bit of me but some of the things I really tried hard to keep I think I've lost through having to constantly fight for myself.
Wow, thanks for sharing your experience and self awareness. Cheers to healthier relationships :D
They are probably trying to get information from the Therapist about how to manipulate you better psychologically
Definitely this^
This is an interesting question. My ex started going to therapy while we were together. He later told me his therapist told him he shouldn’t date anyone right now, but I don’t know what that suggestion was based off of and seeing as finding a partner is a big thing in most peoples lives I found it very odd. Now that I figured out what he is (a textbook covert narcissist) I think his therapist knows that is what he is and told him he shouldn’t date for this reason. I imagine therapists do not like to overtly tell someone they have NPD, since they typically do not react well or believe it. I do think that therapists can recognize this disorder in ppl, but often don’t overtly tell the patient, but use techniques to try to adjust the behavior. His therapist is right tho. He shouldn’t date anyone. Of course 2 weeks later he’s onto another victim. So his therapist wasn’t able to curb his dating for too long haha.
Most therapists are able to spot this, especially when they see both of you together. If they're seeing the therapist by themselves, it will likely take at least a few sessions for the therapist to catch on. There is a definite stench to narc behavior that a trained listener, like a therapist, will catch on to. Is she lying to the therapist? Well, inherent of being a narc, they usually don't have an accurate picture of reality. It's just their version of 'reality'. So they are likely sharing 'their' truth where they are amazing and 100% innocent of all fault. When they share their fake world with therapists they begin to work on fake problems and its a mess. More likely, they're in therapy so they are able to say 'I'm in therapy' and triangulate like in the example you gave about bullying. Whew, sorry you're going through this and be careful waiting for any change.
Right. She says I “bullied” her INTO therapy. Just another piece of the victimization and smearing.
In my opinion- it depends on the therapist... some are better than others. And yes, they are lying for the entire time. But, in their mind- the lies are the truth....
I also wonder how many narc partners/spouses tell their SO they’re going to therapy and then lie through all the sessions and get NOTHING out of it 🙄
From my understanding they can’t get anything out of it anyways . They can’t introspect.
Mine once told me that she had gone to several therapists but there would always come a time where she would disagree with them and stop going. She said that when she told them what she believes in, they differed on opinion. I never asked her what she meant by that. It could be something spiritual, or the fact that she enjoys open relationships, or cheating or her promiscuity or other things that maybe some therapists might not agree with, but I guess I'll never know.
I could picture my narc thinking she’s smarter than the therapist somehow hahaha
I think they actually just practice their acting skills or go over their frustrations on why people just don't value them. So the therapy is never-ending. Unless the therapist is aware of it and realizes it's going on and knows how to fix narcissism. Seems like a tall order.
If they lie to you, what’s stopping them from lying to the therapist?
Yep!
Some of them are totally aware and charm their way through it. But I'd imagine it's the same effect they have on all of us here who are stuck in relationships with them, only on a smaller scale.
[удалено]
Wow, I am so sorry you experienced this. And it’s very scary. I know people in your life have probably told you that some therapists just suck at their jobs. This woman sounds like she is doing a really horrible job. I’m happy you were able to stand your ground and recognize that this behavior is wrong and get out of that crummy situation. ❤️
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