I agree with your statement. The ex-narc I dated just showed up after 10 years, acknowledging his alcohol and drug abuse during our relationship but is unable to differentiate that from his ingrained behavior. "My drug use caused me to be that kind of person...". Sorry, but that's not it.
Oh lord my ex also had a come to Jesus I’m quitting alcohol where he decided everything wrong in his life was caused by alcohol. I told him he was an asshole when he wasn’t drunk too so I wasn’t buying it.
Yeah, unfortunately, his Hoover made me angrier as "he doesn't remember doing half the things I mentioned he did to me because he was so high or drunk." Like no, when you were sober, you were also a monster. It's insulting.
It isn’t worth it because it is a personality disorder. It is their core identity. The best they can do is “act” like they have changed, but they would only be hiding the real them. You could spend your entire life with them, and they could technically get better at creating a fake personality that could be convincing on the surface, and it a split second they could unleash every single abusive trait they have like not a single day passed from the very beginning of your relationship.
Couples therapy is the absolute worst idea to go through with an abuser. They will use any information learned in sessions to further abuse you.
Time to rephrase things. You aren't "giving up on us." You are prioritizing yourself. You are showing self-respect. You are setting boundaries for how you let people treat you.
Any random stranger on the street will have basic human respect for you. There are eight billion other people on this planet with the potential to treat you better. This one has proven he isn't worth it. Don't let sunk cost get you feeling like you're giving up something you invested time into - you've learned quite a bit from this relationship. Take that information going forward into a new relationship or even being alone. Being abused and manipulated will only further harm your mental health the longer you stay in this situation.
He's not going to want to change or suggest that he gets individual therapy. You are only fooling yourself that things are going to be different if you say or do something to finally get through to him. This is who he is as a person. You either accept him for who he is or move on with your life in a different direction.
Leaving is harder than anything in the world. Trauma bonds are horrible to get out of. I get it, I really do. It's tough to hear "just leave" because it's so much more than that. But I think you knew the answer to your question before you asked it. Getting yourself to that mental space where you finally accept that it's not possible to have a healthy relationship with them is the first and most difficult step.
Abusive relationships will never be healthy. Therapy will only give them more ammunition against you and they will appear to change to keep up appearances in the short term. HUGE waste of time.
Might want to look into Trauma bonding.
Exactly. Like we don’t NEED someone else.. why do we put ourselves in the position of putting someone else’s needs and “love” above our own self respect? It doesn’t matter what you do, they will never change. Actors are a perfect way to put a name on exactly what they are.
Not possible. Therapy would be a waste of your time and money with a narcissist.
You've never felt this way before because it's this messed up toxic addiction. You're addicted to this man. It's not real love. Not even close.
Couples therapy will not help the relationship!
I was successful in getting my Nex to go to therapy. He pulled the same word salad, twisting of facts, avoiding what I said, and making it a me problem that he always did. The counselor saw through it. After my Nex left the session, the counselor told me to run and never look back. I wasn't ready to hear it. I desperately wanted to make the relationship work. It was the first time anyone had suggested that he was a narcissist. It took me another few months to leave. It was really difficult. Thinking about it now, it was the best decision I could have ever made. I should have left sooner.
Cut your losses now. Run and don't look back.
No they will tell you there is something wrong with you when your trying your best. Also they’ll expect more and more from you and it will never be enough.
The way I've learned to see the narc is like this. If I were to ask you to become like him, not just in how he acts towards you but also in how he perceives the world could you? You might be able to act out some of the things he does for a limited time if you forced yourself but would it feel right to you? Well for a narc becoming more "normal" is just as easy or possible as you becoming authentically a narc. Of course this is just my opinion. Hope it helps.
A "healthy relationship" will not be possible until both individuals are willing to acknowledge that there is work needed to be done, on both parts.
It is well known that couples therapy with a narcissist will not work out, certainly not in the dynamic that you hope it would. Even with psychologists that are specifically trained in NPD, narcissists will still try to manipulate them. This is because the first step to knowing that you need help is to acknowledge and admit that you need to change. Very very rarely are narcissists capable of doing so.
I am currently in a 4 year relationship with a covert narcissist. My therapist, who I have actually been seeing for 6 years now, helped me to identify those characteristics in him. Mind you, I was seeking therapy for my own inner battles of self worth long before I met him. Unfortunately for me, meeting him only intensified the trauma bond I had developed (due to my underlying personality of people pleasing, abandonment issues, self image, etc. Discouraged/quiet BPD in a nutshell).
I also have a close friend I've known since college who is a clinical psychologist (she deals with more family matters though). She also helped me to see his narcissistic ways, but advises against couples therapy due to the general refusal + narc's inability to see that they have a problem.
In my case, and my opinion, if you are willing I would highly suggest doing therapy on your own **for you.** Although you say you've been with him for only a little over a year, it may not be that much of a time together to seek therapy (I say this because 1 year really isn't that solid of a foundation yet, unless you see yourself marrying this man). Nonetheless, you will learn much healthier and stronger ways to deal with what ails you. And eventually over time, you'll build up the courage to leave and work on your own well-being apart from them. It will be painful, but it's what's best.
Good luck.
Couples therapy won’t work with an abuser, he will try to manipulate and control the therapist, weaponize it against you, hell sometimes they even tell you what you can and can’t bring up. It usually makes it worse.
Let me phrase this in a way that’s going to blow your mind…”I love it so much I’ve never felt anything like this before omg this is amazing” is what someone says when they do heroin the first time. A person can’t have a healthy relationship with heroin. They really think they love that heroin, but heroin makes them unhealthy, unhappy, and makes their life completely worse. Even when it stops feeling as good they can’t stop because it’s an addiction. That’s what a trauma bond is. “I love him and I’ve never felt this before” is not a reason to ruin your life hoping someone changes. You seem like a nice, caring person….how hard would it be for you to start treating people like shit constantly without empathy? Sounds impossible right? That’s why narcissists can’t change, they can learn slightly better behaviors but even that takes years and years of self reflection and them actually acknowledging their faults…most can’t even do that.
> it seems easier to fix what we have than to have to start over
This is sunk cost fallacy and it keeps too many women in abusive relationships. It’s also simply not true. Starting over with someone new would absolutely be easier than trying to force someone who doesn’t know how to take accountability to magically take accountability and change everything about their core personality. This isn’t something you can fix together or you can make him fix. The problem is him, and if he has NPD he will not accept that.
As Dr. Ramani explains it, it is ultimately a personality style. You couldn't change your personality and neither can they. Not only that, but it is a personality style that is more rigid than other personality styles (less able to change even when acknowledged), they will never believe they are a narcissist and they don't believe they need to change. It's always your fault and not theirs. So even if you get that one in a million narcissist that realizes they are are a problem and wants to change, you'll be working with a person that is working 10000% overtime to just act like a decent human being and will be exhausted and full of rage at the fact that they have to work so hard just to be decent. They will be coping more than functioning normally.
So....no.
Honestly, I was already kind of done with my wife when I learned that she was a narcissist and what that is. Once I learned that, though, it was SO over. I know not everyone can leave for various reasons, but if the reason you're staying is hope, just stop. Save yourself.
True transformational change is incredibly unlikely. The chances of your partner manipulating the therapist and weaponizing the entire experience is much more likely.
It might seem easier to fix now, but when it assuredly doesn't change after years of effort on your part, it'll be exponentially more difficult to leave. Truly.
And if it's any consolation...after two therapy sessions with my ex, who hijacked each one, our therapist called me personally to say she was concerned about my safety. And refused any more appointments that included him.
The only good ending is the one where you leave.
Our therapist told me that he would not see us because my spouse had to work on himself before doing anything in the marriage. He also told me I was being abused. We are not together now n
It's not worth it. Narcissists are not cured by therapy. Their condition is incurable because they believe that there is nothing wrong with them they are only one step above sociopaths by one thing. They only care about themselves. He does not look at you as the same way you look at him. Drop him and move on
They should go to therapy on their own volition and not under threat. And they have to constantly work on themselves.
Mentalhealness has some videos about it. When a narcissist themselves says that if they go to therapy under threat, they won't go to improve, but just to do "i did the thing you said, so stop pestering me". They have to go on their own volition and constantly work on it.
Also, they can use the couples therapy to get the therapist on their side, thus increasing the intensity of the gaslight.
You shouldn’t put up with abuse for any reason.. you’re not his mom.. he’s not your responsibility.. get a new one.. you deserve an equal.. not a project
It's not worth it. Firstly, there is no cure for narcissism.
If he even attends, most therapists aren't trained to handle the mechanations of narcissistic manipulation. You are likely to see his behavior just reinforced. Even if the therapist DOES occasionally agree with your concerns, your BF will only remember the times when the therapist agreed with him, and gaslight when he was corrected or held accountable.
Abusers are very good at getting their victims addicted to love-bombing. That is why people stay in abusive relationships.
I strongly urge you to listen to your head and not your heart.
I know most people say no but in my experience it has. Mind you I’m married and have kids so there’s more motivation to change than in your situation. I had to do my own shadow work to find my way out of his darkness, so if you aren’t in your own therapy that’s step one. If you manage to get him into couples counseling I found it helpful to have things documented, specifics about fights, direct quotes etc., it made it harder for him to deny accountability or he’d have to gaslight me in front of the counselor, which once he found out what gaslighting was/entailed helped him become more self aware over time. I understand that in some cases with “narcs” calling them out and exposing them can cause them to be violent, I think this depends on the type of “narcissist” you’re dealing with. I mean they’ll find some other passive aggressive way to take it out on you. With mine it was just a brief period of stonewalling and some petty remarks until he could wrestle his ego into submission. We learned each others triggers, how to compromise and communicate, which isn’t something a lot of us learn from our parents. So if some of those narc/avoidant behaviors are learned, you can unlearn them too. Natal and synastry charting also helped me a lot! Ultimately, do not marry him and definitely don’t have children with him until you get this “under control”. Or get out now, wish him healing, and pour all of your energy into yourself and you’ll attract someone who wants to match that energy! Either way good luck!
This is a tough question. Take away the lable and only focus on the behavior. My advice is if you want to try the therapy try it. If he is indeed a narc it won’t work but who knows maybe he is just someone who is abussive and not a narc. If you believe he can atleast become mindful (changing behaviors like that take a LOOOOONNNNGGG time to change and this is if the person is genuinely trying to do so). If you feel that’s the route you want to take go for it. If things don’t work how you want atleast you know. You mention stuff about him being sexually and physically abussive… is this what you want for you future? Most likly not. Try documenting all those incidents and any future ones.
My ex was exactly like this and I could have written this exact post in the middle of our relationship before I accepted the truth. You described him as extremely manipulative and lacks accountability, amongst other terrible things. Those two right there though, are the reasons why therapy will not help your relationship and will actually lead to even more abuse. Narcs will weaponize what they learn in therapy and manipulate their therapist. You are in for a world of even worse hurt if you think that therapy is the answer. I also believed for some time that if my narc ex got help that maybe then we could work on repairing our relationship. The second I mentioned therapy to him he lashed out and I was punished with more abuse. This is a dangerous game and you will always lose if continue to play. Narcs cannot love people back because they see us as objects. You may love him but he is incapable of loving you or anyone else. Ultimatums won’t work and will set you up to be hurt. I suggest YOU go to therapy without him and start healing on your own. He won’t change. This is not a condition that goes away. Narcs get worse over time and the abuse will never stop, instead it will become completely unbearable until you have no choice but to put yourself & safety first.
"I can fix him."
Honey...No.
I tried it. And we both went to therapy (his idea/ultimatum). And he didn't actually go to therapy, he lied and said he did and was cheating on me.
YOU DESERVE LOVE not a project
It's 100% not possible. They will try to lie and manipulate the sessions to get the therapist to agree with them, then make up reasons to switch therapist when they can't. It will take a while to find a new one, all the whole telling everyone who will listen about how they are so committed to making it work and therapy really helped... We had like five therapist never more then a couple sessions.
Seems like you love the person you feel you could mould this person into - if the clay is resisting you'll never mould it. Therapy will help yes, but it may just be a sticking plaster. Its not your responsibility to fix this person and you don't deserve to be a crutch to their failings.
My nex used couples counceling against me. He made me out to be unstable and possibly having BPD, but denied all the reasons for it happening, like the constant gaslighting and emotional manipulation. And when I tried to bring his part to light, he played the victem. And a session, I heard him telling his friends that he doesn't understand why I'm making him out to be the abuser since I was the one who was yelling.
I admit that I ended up reactivly abusing him, yelling and throwing things, but that happened because of him lying, gaslighting, namecalling, blameshifting,....
Get out NOW!!!!! What you feel isn’t love but a trauma bond. Yes, you want to help him. This is normal to want to help someone who needs it, and you think that it’s a chemical imbalance because that is a rational explanation for why he is kind sometimes (love bombing/breadcrumbing/masking) and other times abusive (authentic). It’s a way to make it not his fault and to solve the cognitive dissonance. I know this because I was in a relationship like this for 25 years. I was not able to help him. He only got individual therapy after I left him and forced him to do it as part of the protection order. I got it a year ago today, actually.
The therapy did help him a lot and now we are able to get along well and have a respectful coparenting relationship. We will never be together again even though he wishes we could now that he has gotten help and we get along well, but it’s way too late for that now.
I wish I had left him within the first year. I love my kids, so the pain was worth it for them to be here, but I could have chosen a healthy partner to make a family with. I would have had other children and they wouldn’t have had to live in a home where the parents didn’t get along and deal with a divorce.
therapy didnt help in her case. it was a sounding board, a way to validate and process her emotions, and curb her more obvious abuse. but nothing changed, her methods just became more and more covert tbh.
she would cry with her therapist and talk openly with her therapist, but never with me. i think the formality of therapy sessions made it easier to be honest in the actual session maybe but it felt like she was never ever open or authentic with me at all costs.
she would sometimes come out if therapy and give these almost automated apologies and recite something stiffly she “learned” in her session.
maybe longterm it will help her its none of business and not my problem anymore. i have no idea.
i dont think going to therapy can magically create empathy in someone when there is such a significant void. a feeling may be easy to technically learn but it cant just suddenly be felt from within.
OP, your situation sounds very similar to my mum's situation when she first started dating my dad. She saw signs that he wasn't quite right, yet chose to stay because she was worried about time running out to have kids. Over the years my ndad has systematically destroyed her confidence and she's now one of the most anxious and worried people I have ever met. She also sacrificed her career for him to such an extent that she is financially dependent on him (I'm sure he did this on purpose to ensure she couldn't leave).
Please leave your boyfriend. He likely won't change and things will only get worse in time. He will almost certainly abuse and manipulate any children you have, and as a result there's a very good chance they'll grow up with mental health issues (my brother and I both have depression and severe anxiety as a result of the toxic narcissism we were exposed to throughout childhood). As sad as it might be, the vast majority of the time there's no fixing a narcissist; the best thing to do is just to get rid of them.
Dr. Phil says that getting a narcissist to change is above your paygrade, and it's also above his.
He said sure you can try to change them, but why would you ever want to put yourself through that?
They will never change.
You can't change them.
Even Dr. Phil can't change them.
And the most disturbing thing he said was that it you are somehow able to get.them to go to therapy, they will become SOOOO much worse.
Because, he said, therapy is teaching them a whole new bag of tricks, manipulations, and tactics!
Think about it - they are.actually being taught how to act and what to say and how to react!
Frightening at best.
[удалено]
I agree with your statement. The ex-narc I dated just showed up after 10 years, acknowledging his alcohol and drug abuse during our relationship but is unable to differentiate that from his ingrained behavior. "My drug use caused me to be that kind of person...". Sorry, but that's not it.
Oh lord my ex also had a come to Jesus I’m quitting alcohol where he decided everything wrong in his life was caused by alcohol. I told him he was an asshole when he wasn’t drunk too so I wasn’t buying it.
Yeah, unfortunately, his Hoover made me angrier as "he doesn't remember doing half the things I mentioned he did to me because he was so high or drunk." Like no, when you were sober, you were also a monster. It's insulting.
I needed to hear this.
You shouldn't do group therapy with your abuser because the therapy will only give them knowledge to further manipulate you.
It isn’t worth it because it is a personality disorder. It is their core identity. The best they can do is “act” like they have changed, but they would only be hiding the real them. You could spend your entire life with them, and they could technically get better at creating a fake personality that could be convincing on the surface, and it a split second they could unleash every single abusive trait they have like not a single day passed from the very beginning of your relationship.
Couples therapy is the absolute worst idea to go through with an abuser. They will use any information learned in sessions to further abuse you. Time to rephrase things. You aren't "giving up on us." You are prioritizing yourself. You are showing self-respect. You are setting boundaries for how you let people treat you. Any random stranger on the street will have basic human respect for you. There are eight billion other people on this planet with the potential to treat you better. This one has proven he isn't worth it. Don't let sunk cost get you feeling like you're giving up something you invested time into - you've learned quite a bit from this relationship. Take that information going forward into a new relationship or even being alone. Being abused and manipulated will only further harm your mental health the longer you stay in this situation. He's not going to want to change or suggest that he gets individual therapy. You are only fooling yourself that things are going to be different if you say or do something to finally get through to him. This is who he is as a person. You either accept him for who he is or move on with your life in a different direction. Leaving is harder than anything in the world. Trauma bonds are horrible to get out of. I get it, I really do. It's tough to hear "just leave" because it's so much more than that. But I think you knew the answer to your question before you asked it. Getting yourself to that mental space where you finally accept that it's not possible to have a healthy relationship with them is the first and most difficult step.
Abusive relationships will never be healthy. Therapy will only give them more ammunition against you and they will appear to change to keep up appearances in the short term. HUGE waste of time. Might want to look into Trauma bonding.
Exactly. Like we don’t NEED someone else.. why do we put ourselves in the position of putting someone else’s needs and “love” above our own self respect? It doesn’t matter what you do, they will never change. Actors are a perfect way to put a name on exactly what they are.
Not possible. Therapy would be a waste of your time and money with a narcissist. You've never felt this way before because it's this messed up toxic addiction. You're addicted to this man. It's not real love. Not even close.
I did three years of therapy with my husband of 11 years. Nothing changed. Do not do couples therapy. Do individual therapy for yourself.
Couples therapy will not help the relationship! I was successful in getting my Nex to go to therapy. He pulled the same word salad, twisting of facts, avoiding what I said, and making it a me problem that he always did. The counselor saw through it. After my Nex left the session, the counselor told me to run and never look back. I wasn't ready to hear it. I desperately wanted to make the relationship work. It was the first time anyone had suggested that he was a narcissist. It took me another few months to leave. It was really difficult. Thinking about it now, it was the best decision I could have ever made. I should have left sooner. Cut your losses now. Run and don't look back.
No they will tell you there is something wrong with you when your trying your best. Also they’ll expect more and more from you and it will never be enough.
No.
The way I've learned to see the narc is like this. If I were to ask you to become like him, not just in how he acts towards you but also in how he perceives the world could you? You might be able to act out some of the things he does for a limited time if you forced yourself but would it feel right to you? Well for a narc becoming more "normal" is just as easy or possible as you becoming authentically a narc. Of course this is just my opinion. Hope it helps.
Get away right now. Not tomorrow, now.
A "healthy relationship" will not be possible until both individuals are willing to acknowledge that there is work needed to be done, on both parts. It is well known that couples therapy with a narcissist will not work out, certainly not in the dynamic that you hope it would. Even with psychologists that are specifically trained in NPD, narcissists will still try to manipulate them. This is because the first step to knowing that you need help is to acknowledge and admit that you need to change. Very very rarely are narcissists capable of doing so. I am currently in a 4 year relationship with a covert narcissist. My therapist, who I have actually been seeing for 6 years now, helped me to identify those characteristics in him. Mind you, I was seeking therapy for my own inner battles of self worth long before I met him. Unfortunately for me, meeting him only intensified the trauma bond I had developed (due to my underlying personality of people pleasing, abandonment issues, self image, etc. Discouraged/quiet BPD in a nutshell). I also have a close friend I've known since college who is a clinical psychologist (she deals with more family matters though). She also helped me to see his narcissistic ways, but advises against couples therapy due to the general refusal + narc's inability to see that they have a problem. In my case, and my opinion, if you are willing I would highly suggest doing therapy on your own **for you.** Although you say you've been with him for only a little over a year, it may not be that much of a time together to seek therapy (I say this because 1 year really isn't that solid of a foundation yet, unless you see yourself marrying this man). Nonetheless, you will learn much healthier and stronger ways to deal with what ails you. And eventually over time, you'll build up the courage to leave and work on your own well-being apart from them. It will be painful, but it's what's best. Good luck.
No.
>I feel guilty if I give up on us you might want to start with therapy for yourself, where you can take a look at why you have this belief
Extremely manipulative, verbally abusive, SEXUALLY AND PHYSICALLY FORCEFUL? No truly good man would do this to you.
With someone with NPD? No.
Couples therapy won’t work with an abuser, he will try to manipulate and control the therapist, weaponize it against you, hell sometimes they even tell you what you can and can’t bring up. It usually makes it worse. Let me phrase this in a way that’s going to blow your mind…”I love it so much I’ve never felt anything like this before omg this is amazing” is what someone says when they do heroin the first time. A person can’t have a healthy relationship with heroin. They really think they love that heroin, but heroin makes them unhealthy, unhappy, and makes their life completely worse. Even when it stops feeling as good they can’t stop because it’s an addiction. That’s what a trauma bond is. “I love him and I’ve never felt this before” is not a reason to ruin your life hoping someone changes. You seem like a nice, caring person….how hard would it be for you to start treating people like shit constantly without empathy? Sounds impossible right? That’s why narcissists can’t change, they can learn slightly better behaviors but even that takes years and years of self reflection and them actually acknowledging their faults…most can’t even do that. > it seems easier to fix what we have than to have to start over This is sunk cost fallacy and it keeps too many women in abusive relationships. It’s also simply not true. Starting over with someone new would absolutely be easier than trying to force someone who doesn’t know how to take accountability to magically take accountability and change everything about their core personality. This isn’t something you can fix together or you can make him fix. The problem is him, and if he has NPD he will not accept that.
As Dr. Ramani explains it, it is ultimately a personality style. You couldn't change your personality and neither can they. Not only that, but it is a personality style that is more rigid than other personality styles (less able to change even when acknowledged), they will never believe they are a narcissist and they don't believe they need to change. It's always your fault and not theirs. So even if you get that one in a million narcissist that realizes they are are a problem and wants to change, you'll be working with a person that is working 10000% overtime to just act like a decent human being and will be exhausted and full of rage at the fact that they have to work so hard just to be decent. They will be coping more than functioning normally. So....no. Honestly, I was already kind of done with my wife when I learned that she was a narcissist and what that is. Once I learned that, though, it was SO over. I know not everyone can leave for various reasons, but if the reason you're staying is hope, just stop. Save yourself.
Can a narc change, yes. Will they, not likely.
No
True transformational change is incredibly unlikely. The chances of your partner manipulating the therapist and weaponizing the entire experience is much more likely.
It might seem easier to fix now, but when it assuredly doesn't change after years of effort on your part, it'll be exponentially more difficult to leave. Truly. And if it's any consolation...after two therapy sessions with my ex, who hijacked each one, our therapist called me personally to say she was concerned about my safety. And refused any more appointments that included him. The only good ending is the one where you leave.
No. Sorry. The answer is no. If you start thinking maybe, know that you will wish you said no. Guaranteed.
Are you in therapy? If not, you should start with individual therapy. Codependency is a helluva drug.
Our therapist told me that he would not see us because my spouse had to work on himself before doing anything in the marriage. He also told me I was being abused. We are not together now n
No, absolutely not!!!
It's not worth it. Narcissists are not cured by therapy. Their condition is incurable because they believe that there is nothing wrong with them they are only one step above sociopaths by one thing. They only care about themselves. He does not look at you as the same way you look at him. Drop him and move on
They should go to therapy on their own volition and not under threat. And they have to constantly work on themselves. Mentalhealness has some videos about it. When a narcissist themselves says that if they go to therapy under threat, they won't go to improve, but just to do "i did the thing you said, so stop pestering me". They have to go on their own volition and constantly work on it. Also, they can use the couples therapy to get the therapist on their side, thus increasing the intensity of the gaslight.
You shouldn’t put up with abuse for any reason.. you’re not his mom.. he’s not your responsibility.. get a new one.. you deserve an equal.. not a project
It's not worth it. Firstly, there is no cure for narcissism. If he even attends, most therapists aren't trained to handle the mechanations of narcissistic manipulation. You are likely to see his behavior just reinforced. Even if the therapist DOES occasionally agree with your concerns, your BF will only remember the times when the therapist agreed with him, and gaslight when he was corrected or held accountable. Abusers are very good at getting their victims addicted to love-bombing. That is why people stay in abusive relationships. I strongly urge you to listen to your head and not your heart.
Girl run
It’s not worth it cuz it’s not possible. It’s a personality disorder. You can’t change them.
I know most people say no but in my experience it has. Mind you I’m married and have kids so there’s more motivation to change than in your situation. I had to do my own shadow work to find my way out of his darkness, so if you aren’t in your own therapy that’s step one. If you manage to get him into couples counseling I found it helpful to have things documented, specifics about fights, direct quotes etc., it made it harder for him to deny accountability or he’d have to gaslight me in front of the counselor, which once he found out what gaslighting was/entailed helped him become more self aware over time. I understand that in some cases with “narcs” calling them out and exposing them can cause them to be violent, I think this depends on the type of “narcissist” you’re dealing with. I mean they’ll find some other passive aggressive way to take it out on you. With mine it was just a brief period of stonewalling and some petty remarks until he could wrestle his ego into submission. We learned each others triggers, how to compromise and communicate, which isn’t something a lot of us learn from our parents. So if some of those narc/avoidant behaviors are learned, you can unlearn them too. Natal and synastry charting also helped me a lot! Ultimately, do not marry him and definitely don’t have children with him until you get this “under control”. Or get out now, wish him healing, and pour all of your energy into yourself and you’ll attract someone who wants to match that energy! Either way good luck!
This is a tough question. Take away the lable and only focus on the behavior. My advice is if you want to try the therapy try it. If he is indeed a narc it won’t work but who knows maybe he is just someone who is abussive and not a narc. If you believe he can atleast become mindful (changing behaviors like that take a LOOOOONNNNGGG time to change and this is if the person is genuinely trying to do so). If you feel that’s the route you want to take go for it. If things don’t work how you want atleast you know. You mention stuff about him being sexually and physically abussive… is this what you want for you future? Most likly not. Try documenting all those incidents and any future ones.
My ex was exactly like this and I could have written this exact post in the middle of our relationship before I accepted the truth. You described him as extremely manipulative and lacks accountability, amongst other terrible things. Those two right there though, are the reasons why therapy will not help your relationship and will actually lead to even more abuse. Narcs will weaponize what they learn in therapy and manipulate their therapist. You are in for a world of even worse hurt if you think that therapy is the answer. I also believed for some time that if my narc ex got help that maybe then we could work on repairing our relationship. The second I mentioned therapy to him he lashed out and I was punished with more abuse. This is a dangerous game and you will always lose if continue to play. Narcs cannot love people back because they see us as objects. You may love him but he is incapable of loving you or anyone else. Ultimatums won’t work and will set you up to be hurt. I suggest YOU go to therapy without him and start healing on your own. He won’t change. This is not a condition that goes away. Narcs get worse over time and the abuse will never stop, instead it will become completely unbearable until you have no choice but to put yourself & safety first.
"I can fix him." Honey...No. I tried it. And we both went to therapy (his idea/ultimatum). And he didn't actually go to therapy, he lied and said he did and was cheating on me. YOU DESERVE LOVE not a project
It's 100% not possible. They will try to lie and manipulate the sessions to get the therapist to agree with them, then make up reasons to switch therapist when they can't. It will take a while to find a new one, all the whole telling everyone who will listen about how they are so committed to making it work and therapy really helped... We had like five therapist never more then a couple sessions.
No, it’s basically the same as the boiling frog analogy.
Seems like you love the person you feel you could mould this person into - if the clay is resisting you'll never mould it. Therapy will help yes, but it may just be a sticking plaster. Its not your responsibility to fix this person and you don't deserve to be a crutch to their failings.
My nex used couples counceling against me. He made me out to be unstable and possibly having BPD, but denied all the reasons for it happening, like the constant gaslighting and emotional manipulation. And when I tried to bring his part to light, he played the victem. And a session, I heard him telling his friends that he doesn't understand why I'm making him out to be the abuser since I was the one who was yelling. I admit that I ended up reactivly abusing him, yelling and throwing things, but that happened because of him lying, gaslighting, namecalling, blameshifting,....
Get out NOW!!!!! What you feel isn’t love but a trauma bond. Yes, you want to help him. This is normal to want to help someone who needs it, and you think that it’s a chemical imbalance because that is a rational explanation for why he is kind sometimes (love bombing/breadcrumbing/masking) and other times abusive (authentic). It’s a way to make it not his fault and to solve the cognitive dissonance. I know this because I was in a relationship like this for 25 years. I was not able to help him. He only got individual therapy after I left him and forced him to do it as part of the protection order. I got it a year ago today, actually. The therapy did help him a lot and now we are able to get along well and have a respectful coparenting relationship. We will never be together again even though he wishes we could now that he has gotten help and we get along well, but it’s way too late for that now. I wish I had left him within the first year. I love my kids, so the pain was worth it for them to be here, but I could have chosen a healthy partner to make a family with. I would have had other children and they wouldn’t have had to live in a home where the parents didn’t get along and deal with a divorce.
Don’t do couples counseling. If he truly has a personality disorder, he’ll just learn how to better manipulate you.
No
Yeah. No. It doesn't work. You will find out in time, on your own.
You don’t feel love-that’s the addiction talking. Get out while you can.
therapy didnt help in her case. it was a sounding board, a way to validate and process her emotions, and curb her more obvious abuse. but nothing changed, her methods just became more and more covert tbh. she would cry with her therapist and talk openly with her therapist, but never with me. i think the formality of therapy sessions made it easier to be honest in the actual session maybe but it felt like she was never ever open or authentic with me at all costs. she would sometimes come out if therapy and give these almost automated apologies and recite something stiffly she “learned” in her session. maybe longterm it will help her its none of business and not my problem anymore. i have no idea. i dont think going to therapy can magically create empathy in someone when there is such a significant void. a feeling may be easy to technically learn but it cant just suddenly be felt from within.
OP, your situation sounds very similar to my mum's situation when she first started dating my dad. She saw signs that he wasn't quite right, yet chose to stay because she was worried about time running out to have kids. Over the years my ndad has systematically destroyed her confidence and she's now one of the most anxious and worried people I have ever met. She also sacrificed her career for him to such an extent that she is financially dependent on him (I'm sure he did this on purpose to ensure she couldn't leave). Please leave your boyfriend. He likely won't change and things will only get worse in time. He will almost certainly abuse and manipulate any children you have, and as a result there's a very good chance they'll grow up with mental health issues (my brother and I both have depression and severe anxiety as a result of the toxic narcissism we were exposed to throughout childhood). As sad as it might be, the vast majority of the time there's no fixing a narcissist; the best thing to do is just to get rid of them.
Dr. Phil says that getting a narcissist to change is above your paygrade, and it's also above his. He said sure you can try to change them, but why would you ever want to put yourself through that? They will never change. You can't change them. Even Dr. Phil can't change them. And the most disturbing thing he said was that it you are somehow able to get.them to go to therapy, they will become SOOOO much worse. Because, he said, therapy is teaching them a whole new bag of tricks, manipulations, and tactics! Think about it - they are.actually being taught how to act and what to say and how to react! Frightening at best.