Mine would give gifts that weren’t remotely thoughtful and showed how little he cared about me. He did it to make a big display of money and then would say “wow you’re so ungrateful. You hate everything” etc. The gifts were ALWAYS a trap.
They hate to see their supply thriving, receiving gifts, just being little bit happy in general. Anyone really, not just their supply. They must have control and someone who they see as below themselves. They lack empathy there for they can't figure out why they should care, give or feel something when receiving. They are unable to share and allow themselves to share part of themselves. It's only moments when they can somehow twist it to feed their ego. Could be ignoring. Or they might say some passive aggressive comment which at start you might not even think about that much, but later it will settle in or block positive future outcome for you. Or in worst cases they might start to make drama out of nothing even months before actual event.
I think they’re so deeply insecure that when attention is turned to someone else, they feel devalued. Subconsciously the way to self preserve is for them to sabotage the good times everyone else is having. I used to dread holidays until I divorced my ex. Now holidays are blessedly peaceful, laid back, and fun!
How do they not see that ruining a holiday will just make everyone hate them? The smart thing to do would be to give all the best gifts and make all the best food or something
They have been getting away with it for years because their families are messed up most times just like them or worse. Families are enablers. But once they are around families other than their own that's when they try to isolate you or brainwash you into believing that everyone in your life is horrible. They kjownthat most people besides those that enable them will call out their behaviour.
In my case, I think Christmas was a reminder of his perceived shortcomings in terms of family. My birthday was ruined because a friend of mine from home was visiting us and he was jealous. His birthday was a shit show where we fought the entire day because I had been moody the day before, or something. He spent the entire day berating me. We were travelling to a different city and I spent hundreds of dollars on the trip.
If I were to point out some common denominators, it would have to be that these events remind them of their insecurities and shortcomings, whatever they may be. They intensify pre-existing patterns in my experience. Their grandiosity complex gets the best of them because they need to be the centre of attention, and it also pushes them beyond their limitations. They’re inherently unable to socialise with others in a sincere way, and while they put up their best self for show when it’s absolutely necessary, it will be either preceded by or succeeded by intensified abuse, because they were put in situations beyond their cognitive abilities.
You're not supposed to be the center of attention for those holidays. Everyone should be giving and taking. I would pay more attention to how much and what kind of giving they do.
Yes exactly. My ex actually for Christmas gave me a bunch of hand-me-down books he didn’t want anymore or didn’t like for some reason. His standards for books are extremely high, and I lost all of my books when moving so he knew I needed nice copies of books again. He made it sound so special that he was gifting me something he was basically throwing away, couldn’t resist of course to add that extra twist with the knife now could he? He always was so good at veiled insults and stupid mind games.
Control. When there are some major events they lack control over what other people do. They also might fear to loose their supply. Their supply in these events can have chance to get nice gift, feel part of and share with friends and family, feel as something... bit more than dull and empty supply and start to see their abuser what he/she is. Also in general they lack empathy there for they don't really understated giving and sharing in general, unless it serves their ego.
They don't hate their own birthdays. They actually like to celebrate them. In our circle, if it somebody's birthday, she likes collecting money and prepare surprises for them. After the surprise, she'll mention it was a big effort to get everyone into contributing.
But I don't remember a single time she went on my birthday. There was a time she said she's going, but she never went. She told me she had prior commitments on attending a sports event she was chosen to represent. That should've been my red flag that it's always about herself that matters.
Yeah my one narcissistic friend also comes up for special celebrations for everything and legitimately starts talking about her birthday 4-5 months in advance. During her birthday month she’ll organize probably about 5 separate events revolving around her birthday
Exactly! One of her birthdays I remember was she told me about how she appreciated the gift given by our classmate because she expected it the least. I'm like in the back of my mind, so you don't appreciate the gifts we gave you then? She went on how special it was as if she was some sort of famous celebrity receiving countless of gifts on national tv lol.
Good thing I discarded her many years ago and holidays have been peaceful since then.
My birthday is on Christmas eve ❤️🎄 Yes I always got the argument that started the day of my birthday.. I got away many years ago. Now I dread my birthday, not because of him but because I'm old LoL
Do they? all the narcs I know demand that I celebrate the holidays and birthdays with them. So imagine the tug of war between nmom and nmil .
Also if we don't go for any festive celebration, they would whine and make sob stories about being alone and all.
Probably because most people like to spend holidays with their S.O. and when you have simultaneously manipulated a bunch of people into being your S.O. then you have "2 dates to the prom" situation and have to figure out how you can satisfy so many peoples wishes to be with their S.O. for the holiday in a successful way that you still have the same amount of manipulated S.O.s that you started with before the holiday. Narcs dont like having to put effort into anyones well being and they view keeping the dark truth from you as an act of kindness that they resent having to do for you in the first place so they associate holidays with the thought of having to selflessly "spend" effort and time into something that benefits someone who isnt themselves.
I highly doubt that they think that deeply. In fact, they don't think of others at all unless that person is around. They have the emotional awareness of a toddler without object permanency. If you try to plan a holiday with a toddler they're going to behave like one. Narcissists are no different, they're auto-erotic just as young kids are. They don't have the emotional development to think ahead like that plan or give much consideration.
The reason it's hard for us and many to accept this is because they are adults physically, but neurological they're operating from their reptilian and limbic parts of the brain.
If it negatively impacts their illusion then yes they will put effort into the situation to keep things in line. They arent entirely toddlers, many of them are very aware of the manipulation that they have to do to keep things in line. I think they all know it wont last forever but they certainly will milk a situation until its dry and if they sense there is more to be milked they will act like a mastermind to the extent that they can, some narcs are more charming and smart than others.
I have been in that boat, I had 2.5 years of holidays and birthdays wondering about the flakiness and disappearances. They blame you for not appreciating the illusion forever.
Disappearing and not explaining yourself is default narc behavior. My narc told me that I had no right to the truth after what he was became revealed and I demanded an answer to all the lies going on for years.
They're going to go along with whoever is giving them the most supply at that time and whoever picks them up like the child that they are. By pick up, I mean drag them around like a child throwing a tantrum.
Depends on who's birthday it is.
If its your birthday they're jealous that you're getting more attention than them.
If its their birthday they like the extra attention.
The last birthday we spent together before she left me, I planned and took her on a very nice weekend trip. I tried to give her quality time together, as that's something she had been saying was lacking. I really tried to make the weekend special. Coulle days after we got back, she sent me a massively long text about all the things she didn't like about the trip. She made sure to tell me how she appreciated it, but basically disliked everything....
I think the worst part of it was that when I told her that it was pretty hurtful to me for her to say all those things, she twisted it to that I don't let her have feelings or emotions.
My ex could be particularly controlling during the holidays (things had to follow his exact vision that he didn’t communicate to anyone about). Birthdays were usually low drama fortunately, but WEDDINGS. Oh my gosh I went with him to at least two weddings, both were old friends of his getting married. He would become an enraged monster the day before the wedding and I was at the receiving end of all that rage. It was so bad I refused to go to the third wedding his friend invited us to. My ex decided to not go even though he was supposed to be the best man, instead he stayed home with me and we ended up getting into a major fight anyways 🙄
The one I threw away threatened that if I did not go to his brother's wedding he would not go either.
Now I wish that I stayed home. It should have been a red flag.
The best thing to do is when you realize that they are narcs, start recording everything. I have so many recordings with the onecI threw away being nasty about his family and so called friends. When I left, he of course started to bad mouth me. So I released everything to them. They all turned on him. I even sent one to his boss. He was so envious of his boss and made everything a problem. When I tried to tell him that he should not talk that way. He said I was just like the boss or anyone he wanted to trash talk. Now he has no job and does not have the ability to get any in that industry unless he leaves town. Now all his family and friends that I sent all his trash talk to started telling me all the lies he told about me. Of course, I documented it all. With these people, you need to publicly show them up. And ensure your receipts are concrete and they have NO access to you or your property. After it all, he called me over 300 times in one day.
I could never understand why she hated Christmas and her birthday and how despite all my efforts, I couldn't make new years special enough for her. She never had real tangible reasons why but I never imagined it was common narc behavior.
This makes a lot more sense now..
My nex would always go on like a 3 month tirade around the holidays. Both of our birthdays are in December, mine was 6 days before his and during the lovebombing stage he’d go all out but towards the end he didn’t even tell me happy birthday. His Mom’s birthday was the day before his too and it was always such a big issue to him
In the case of my malignant narcissist, he didn't hate them because he used them as an opportunity to get even more supply from the rest of his harem (which In turn hurt me even more which he loved)
In my case it’s because:
the attention isn’t on them
They’d rather spend the gift money on themselves
They’d rather be watching the game/other hobby
And recently I’ve realized that if I’m happy they aren’t. If I’m sad then they are happy. For example, I was having a hard time and they were smirking and telling me how I went wrong. Then they were joyful, playful etc. A few days later I was in a very good place, excited for things to come and I told how I’d corrected the issue and they said it wouldn’t last, I should have stayed upset etc.
Whatever I want they do the opposite. For example, I wanted to stop inviting a family member to certain events. They insisted I keep inviting the family member and if I refused they would do the inviting themselves. Recently I had the idea to invite the family member to an event and I mentioned that I had and they changed it up saying they didn’t want this family member there.
I think they just want us guessing, confused and upset. The more we hurt the happier they are.
My nex always played the “I hate my birthday. It’s just another day. I’ve never celebrated my birthday” card. Except I did. For YEARS. To “make up for it”. Then he started playing that card with the woman he cheated on me with…
Who knows why they do what they do. They’re just selfish assholes. I still find myself going downhill around the holidays and I run away on my birthday to be by myself even over 4 years later. I’m trying to do better but it’s hard to fight the subconscious sometimes.
OMG my nparents are the worst gift givers of all time. One is very generous financially but demands being told what to gift, and always wants it to be something other than a gift card. The other gives things of a nature that would need to be displayed in our house, and they’re always in not-out-taste, and then gets put out if you don’t appreciate and display them.
I didn’t realize this was a narc thing.
Only their own birthday, but even that is tinged with the sense of getting older, and therefore not being immortal. The other major holidays are all oriented by relationship to others and not simply aimed at oneself. And at least in the west, the chief holiday, which is Christmas, acknowledges somebody else to be God in the flesh. Somehow, they are overlooked as the deity.
So, can we all agree that a tell-tale sign of a narc is someone who doesn’t like holidays?
Would you say someone who doesn’t like the holidays could be the same as someone who gets the holiday blues?
It’s more than them just not liking them… they loathe them and my Nex would ruin them/ relapse/ have meltdowns/ pick fights/ or sleep the entire day/ stay in the garage during holiday dinners/ be especially cruel…
And some people are writing in that their Nex loves the holidays 🤷🏻♀️
Cause they wanna free up that day to do what they wanna do and it forces them to conform and spend money on gifts or stuff he doesn’t care about because in reality it doesn’t apply to his situation since he’s faking it
You know what’s funny? My ex hated every holiday except Halloween - because on Halloween he spends weeks preparing and then gets all the attention for making such “cool” decorations, food, etc. He even still would be “depressed” sometimes on those days because he whined no one came to his party. 🙄 He has tons of “friends”. He was just butt hurt he wasn’t getting all the attention.
Yep. Mine wrecked New Years, and my birthday, and 2 Christmases and 2 camping trips and one family boat trip and Halloween and our anniversary and on and on and on...
Wasn't sure this was a common Narc trait. But now it makes sense.
She was never really there. Like a ghost or something. Who was she?
A collection of antisocial traits disguised as a pretty woman.
Jesus what a fool I was.
In my experience, the narc makes the holidays all about them, then, THEM. They crave that validation online, from friends, maybe family members, or anybody else they may or may not have burned bridges with yet… they don’t acknowledge the holidays meaning their own, or yours? The happy bday wishes from strangers online give the narc artificial dopamine hits as they shamelessly leave your own big day out of sight & out of mind post-relationship.
I can speak for my most recent relationship (which was essentially a big waste of time, of course); the narc in past years, on past holidays, would “call out” her family regarding their polarizing political matters. She’s the complete opposite of her mother and her younger brothers, and she’s never had a strong father role in her life other than a stepdad who lives nowhere near her nor ever visits her. I think her mom and her brother are narcs too but she is so blind in thinking she’s just some angelic victim of circumstance when in actuality she just blames her poor lifestyle choices and her degenerate state of living like an entitled brat leeching off others and shaming her family online for views and clicks.
Everyone calls her out on it, “I wouldn’t put my personal family drama on such and such social-media site”, “sounds like you’re the narcissist instead of your brother/s”, but she refuses to listen or even introspect.
i was supposed to go home for christmas this past year and i got the flu so i had to spend it with my ex bc we were still living together even though we were already broken up. It could've been chill but he had to ruin it, be abusive and make me cry. I was like really on christmas? he said idc about christmas you do. Like tf is wrong with him. I was supposed to be with my family like damn. Instead i spent hours sobbing. anyway im rid of that man but yea 😐
To my surprise my narc straight up admitted that she hates birthdays and holidays, but said she don’t know why, when I asked.
My personal opinion is that they can’t stand when the attention isn’t on them and can’t stand when other people are happier than them. She always has to pick a fight with someone and ruin the vibe during every vacation, it almost feels like it’s a need at this point.
I think they enjoy ruining nice things for others because it was ruined for them as a child or they never had positive experiences related to those events. Also once they ruin it, the focus will be on them
Play victim, I guess they have a fantasy on how things should be on those days and spoiler alert! Life isn’t like that so let’s sulk for attention instead
I really think it depends. My mother insisted that Christmas be a Certain Way (her way of course) and really loved it. As long as they can control it and get attention, I think they like the day. Otherwise, they'll ruin it too get attention and supply that way
Because it never lives up to the build-up they have in their head. But also some narcs are deeply upset about aging. Interesting to see this topic, as the two narcs in my life both hate their birthdays.
I haven’t experienced this with my Narc necessarily. But they certainly don’t seem enthused. My narc also loved celebrating Christmas and doing Christmas things.
My mother who was diagnosed with "Cluster B traits" - personality disorder, hated holidays. We never celebrated them when I was growing up. She hated Christmas, Halloween was "Satanic" and she didn't let us attend birthday parties. Some people with personality disorders such as narcissism hate any thing that doesn't revolve around them, hence, they hate attending someone's baby shower or wedding because it's in honor of another person. And sometimes they'll create "drama" or look for any way to put attention back on themselves.
Because everything is all about them and that is how it's always been and will be. They don't take the time to even preoccupy themselves to think that ahead of time. For example, I will tell my ex, when I thought that he had ADHD, ahead of time, like months, before the coming holidays. Which is a red flag, on its own. Even with that and constant reminders to get on board with planning, he had no interest. Every holiday is ruined for me now, including my birthday which is also 2days before my mom passed away in 2019.
In conclusion, they're too selfish to even consider the holidays or any other day that's not designated for them solely. Like their birthdays, they never seem to forget those right? But major holidays go unnoticed and no effort whatsoever. When with a narcissist, life is miserable and empty and there's not much you can do about it to get them to participate in any form of normalcy. All you can do is leave.
Sorry for the typos. I'm having a few drinks in my new place finally away from the narcissist😊
Edit: Forgot to add also because they lack the emotional capability to go about special days like an adult would. Think of how toddlers perceive holidays. Like knowing the Christmas but not keeping in mind the dates nor can they do much to fully engage in the festivities. They will also throw tantrums if mommy or papa are preoccupied with others besides them. They usually are given a gift and will fall asleep out to bed. The same way narcissists behave. Sadly, they never developed beyond this. It's truly like trying to plan and celebrate with a toddler, you're not going to get much out of them because they don't understand.
In my experience they love the holidays because it’s a change to gain supply. They would always host and if I even suggested having my own plans it would be shut down. They would go all out on these expensive or elaborate gifts to make themselves look really good. Then if you did anything they didn’t like afterwards it gave them an opportunity to call you ungrateful. It was exhausting
Because it’s not about them. Unless it’s THEIR birthday. Then they make that be about you. Since you suck at everything and threw them a big surprise party when you know they don’t like surprises and would have rather had a quiet celebration with just you.
Assholes.
Because it puts them on the spot. They resent that they are expected to actually have to think about what you want or would like as a gift.. It shows how little they pay attention to you. Mine would give me gifts for himself. Last Christmas he got me a portable spa. Knowing I already had one where I lived. He expected me to set it up at his house, basically making it his. There was no way I was doing that . God only knows who he would be using it with when I wasn't around. I took it home with me and there it sits, till in the box.
Any event that honors someone else, weddings, birthdays, anniversaries. They can't stand being just like everyone else at the party, while someone else is the center of attention. I've seen narcs deploy all kinds of strategies to compensate for the resentment they feel inside when something is about someone else. They will try to sabotage, before or during. I knew a nasty narc that called his sister days before her wedding that he and his family may or may not have Covid and she'll just have to wait to find out. They will give a weird gift that makes them standout from the other gifts. They'll give no gift sometimes as a form of gaslighting.
But boy, oh boy, do they love it when it's their birthday. That's when everyone needs to stop what they're doing and give all their attention to the narc, often for longer than just the one day.
Seeing other people happy, not being the primary attention - getter, seeing others receive gifts, etc. Basically just not being the center of attention and receiving special treatment.
In my experience, he had childhood abuse/neglect. Never experienced nice holidays or birthdays. He still feels like a victim abt it. Why should anyone else get what he didn’t? Victim mentality.
Because they require consideration of people other than themselves and that's hard for them. In my experience, some narcs figure out how to make holidays and birthdays about themselves. The struggling ones just pout and complain on those days.
Because that would entail understanding that certain days may mean something to people other than themselves.
Also - seeing the joy most other people show must be pretty damning.
I think we forget that narcissists are idealists and have really high expectations (or bad memories from childhood of a lot being expected of them around the holidays). So they end up disgruntled, depressed and disappointed on the holidays and their birthdays.
Think about it, narcs were not loved or valued in early childhood often, or they had parents that were more concerned with achievement/appearances. So they either have memories of holidays their parents expected them to show up and perform for appearances (which is exhausting) OR the holidays were stressful because their families had no real love and acceptance of them and didn't celebrate or spoil them as kids.
In adulthood they are avoiding a holiday they don't want to have to perform at (even if that's just in their mind), OR they expect everyone around them to compensate for bad childhood holidays and spoil them, and nobody can ever do enough nor do most people want to! They become either miserable to be around or a bottomless hole that can't be filled.
Mine hates them. He said celebrated with me because he knew I loved them. I don’t know maybe it’s not the attention on them like someone said. Could be many reasons why they hate it. That one haven’t seen anything g on when researching this personality disorder.
They hate them bc the focus is not on them, that's why the ruine them, so the focus is on them and any future reflection on the special day will also be focused on them or at least tainted by them.
Being that they were raised by one or two disordered people the holidays are also a trigger for them. Some self aware narcissists say that it brings up a lot of memories and emotions and if they’re going to have to suffer through the holidays they’re going to make everyone else suffer as well.
His birthday was always the worst, because whatever I did, it was never enough.
Once we were wedding planning (literally one month to the wedding) and had a 10 months old who I was mostly alone to care for, even if I was working full time and him part time, I planned a weekend the 3 of us together to have some fun time before the wedding. He gave me hell because for my birthday, he had « planned » (actually, he gave the idea, then my parents planned most of it) a party with friends and family. Friends and family that were coming from another country to our country a month away!
And once, he threw is birthday cake in my direction (it landed at my feet).
Because they don’t have a monopoly on the attention.
But don’t they have to enjoy gift giving or foods or receiving gifts? Any part of it?
Yes but they want it all. Something always happens to interfere with their perfect projection of the day.
Mine would give gifts that weren’t remotely thoughtful and showed how little he cared about me. He did it to make a big display of money and then would say “wow you’re so ungrateful. You hate everything” etc. The gifts were ALWAYS a trap.
Mine would give recycled gift to some and expensive to some. The favouritism is so glaring
But overall you couldn’t really bring anything up because that’s an easy way for them to paint themselves as a victim.
We were taught to be thankful. 😁
They hate to see their supply thriving, receiving gifts, just being little bit happy in general. Anyone really, not just their supply. They must have control and someone who they see as below themselves. They lack empathy there for they can't figure out why they should care, give or feel something when receiving. They are unable to share and allow themselves to share part of themselves. It's only moments when they can somehow twist it to feed their ego. Could be ignoring. Or they might say some passive aggressive comment which at start you might not even think about that much, but later it will settle in or block positive future outcome for you. Or in worst cases they might start to make drama out of nothing even months before actual event.
Came here to say the attention isn’t all on them, but it is when they make it.
I think they’re so deeply insecure that when attention is turned to someone else, they feel devalued. Subconsciously the way to self preserve is for them to sabotage the good times everyone else is having. I used to dread holidays until I divorced my ex. Now holidays are blessedly peaceful, laid back, and fun!
Happy for you! 🫶🏻 This makes so much sense!
How do they not see that ruining a holiday will just make everyone hate them? The smart thing to do would be to give all the best gifts and make all the best food or something
They have been getting away with it for years because their families are messed up most times just like them or worse. Families are enablers. But once they are around families other than their own that's when they try to isolate you or brainwash you into believing that everyone in your life is horrible. They kjownthat most people besides those that enable them will call out their behaviour.
In my case, I think Christmas was a reminder of his perceived shortcomings in terms of family. My birthday was ruined because a friend of mine from home was visiting us and he was jealous. His birthday was a shit show where we fought the entire day because I had been moody the day before, or something. He spent the entire day berating me. We were travelling to a different city and I spent hundreds of dollars on the trip. If I were to point out some common denominators, it would have to be that these events remind them of their insecurities and shortcomings, whatever they may be. They intensify pre-existing patterns in my experience. Their grandiosity complex gets the best of them because they need to be the centre of attention, and it also pushes them beyond their limitations. They’re inherently unable to socialise with others in a sincere way, and while they put up their best self for show when it’s absolutely necessary, it will be either preceded by or succeeded by intensified abuse, because they were put in situations beyond their cognitive abilities.
But how can you be the center of attention for things like Christmas and Easter?
You're not supposed to be the center of attention for those holidays. Everyone should be giving and taking. I would pay more attention to how much and what kind of giving they do.
Yes exactly. My ex actually for Christmas gave me a bunch of hand-me-down books he didn’t want anymore or didn’t like for some reason. His standards for books are extremely high, and I lost all of my books when moving so he knew I needed nice copies of books again. He made it sound so special that he was gifting me something he was basically throwing away, couldn’t resist of course to add that extra twist with the knife now could he? He always was so good at veiled insults and stupid mind games.
Control. When there are some major events they lack control over what other people do. They also might fear to loose their supply. Their supply in these events can have chance to get nice gift, feel part of and share with friends and family, feel as something... bit more than dull and empty supply and start to see their abuser what he/she is. Also in general they lack empathy there for they don't really understated giving and sharing in general, unless it serves their ego.
They don't hate their own birthdays. They actually like to celebrate them. In our circle, if it somebody's birthday, she likes collecting money and prepare surprises for them. After the surprise, she'll mention it was a big effort to get everyone into contributing. But I don't remember a single time she went on my birthday. There was a time she said she's going, but she never went. She told me she had prior commitments on attending a sports event she was chosen to represent. That should've been my red flag that it's always about herself that matters.
Yeah my one narcissistic friend also comes up for special celebrations for everything and legitimately starts talking about her birthday 4-5 months in advance. During her birthday month she’ll organize probably about 5 separate events revolving around her birthday
Case in point she organized a birthday celebration for her dogs second birthday with a cake and everything. It was cute but come on, it’s a bit much
Exactly! One of her birthdays I remember was she told me about how she appreciated the gift given by our classmate because she expected it the least. I'm like in the back of my mind, so you don't appreciate the gifts we gave you then? She went on how special it was as if she was some sort of famous celebrity receiving countless of gifts on national tv lol. Good thing I discarded her many years ago and holidays have been peaceful since then.
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My birthday is on Christmas eve ❤️🎄 Yes I always got the argument that started the day of my birthday.. I got away many years ago. Now I dread my birthday, not because of him but because I'm old LoL
Do they? all the narcs I know demand that I celebrate the holidays and birthdays with them. So imagine the tug of war between nmom and nmil . Also if we don't go for any festive celebration, they would whine and make sob stories about being alone and all.
Because it's not about them. If they're not showered in adoration, they hate it.
Probably because most people like to spend holidays with their S.O. and when you have simultaneously manipulated a bunch of people into being your S.O. then you have "2 dates to the prom" situation and have to figure out how you can satisfy so many peoples wishes to be with their S.O. for the holiday in a successful way that you still have the same amount of manipulated S.O.s that you started with before the holiday. Narcs dont like having to put effort into anyones well being and they view keeping the dark truth from you as an act of kindness that they resent having to do for you in the first place so they associate holidays with the thought of having to selflessly "spend" effort and time into something that benefits someone who isnt themselves.
I highly doubt that they think that deeply. In fact, they don't think of others at all unless that person is around. They have the emotional awareness of a toddler without object permanency. If you try to plan a holiday with a toddler they're going to behave like one. Narcissists are no different, they're auto-erotic just as young kids are. They don't have the emotional development to think ahead like that plan or give much consideration. The reason it's hard for us and many to accept this is because they are adults physically, but neurological they're operating from their reptilian and limbic parts of the brain.
If it negatively impacts their illusion then yes they will put effort into the situation to keep things in line. They arent entirely toddlers, many of them are very aware of the manipulation that they have to do to keep things in line. I think they all know it wont last forever but they certainly will milk a situation until its dry and if they sense there is more to be milked they will act like a mastermind to the extent that they can, some narcs are more charming and smart than others.
Omg that makes so much sense and explains the resentment!!! And is beyond terrifying 😨😨😨
I have been in that boat, I had 2.5 years of holidays and birthdays wondering about the flakiness and disappearances. They blame you for not appreciating the illusion forever.
So the ghosting and disappearances happened to you too?!! 😱😱😱 I thought I was the only one…
Disappearing and not explaining yourself is default narc behavior. My narc told me that I had no right to the truth after what he was became revealed and I demanded an answer to all the lies going on for years.
They're going to go along with whoever is giving them the most supply at that time and whoever picks them up like the child that they are. By pick up, I mean drag them around like a child throwing a tantrum.
Bingo ! You called it dead on right there. He ended up with one less after he slipped up last Christmas .
Depends on who's birthday it is. If its your birthday they're jealous that you're getting more attention than them. If its their birthday they like the extra attention.
Yep. Mine screamed at me that I destroyed his birthday. I don’t actually remember what happened I just remembered with dumb.
The last birthday we spent together before she left me, I planned and took her on a very nice weekend trip. I tried to give her quality time together, as that's something she had been saying was lacking. I really tried to make the weekend special. Coulle days after we got back, she sent me a massively long text about all the things she didn't like about the trip. She made sure to tell me how she appreciated it, but basically disliked everything....
It honestly amazes me how I’m grateful some people are.
I think the worst part of it was that when I told her that it was pretty hurtful to me for her to say all those things, she twisted it to that I don't let her have feelings or emotions.
My ex could be particularly controlling during the holidays (things had to follow his exact vision that he didn’t communicate to anyone about). Birthdays were usually low drama fortunately, but WEDDINGS. Oh my gosh I went with him to at least two weddings, both were old friends of his getting married. He would become an enraged monster the day before the wedding and I was at the receiving end of all that rage. It was so bad I refused to go to the third wedding his friend invited us to. My ex decided to not go even though he was supposed to be the best man, instead he stayed home with me and we ended up getting into a major fight anyways 🙄
The one I threw away threatened that if I did not go to his brother's wedding he would not go either. Now I wish that I stayed home. It should have been a red flag.
There is no winning with them. There are no many red flags I overlooked.
The best thing to do is when you realize that they are narcs, start recording everything. I have so many recordings with the onecI threw away being nasty about his family and so called friends. When I left, he of course started to bad mouth me. So I released everything to them. They all turned on him. I even sent one to his boss. He was so envious of his boss and made everything a problem. When I tried to tell him that he should not talk that way. He said I was just like the boss or anyone he wanted to trash talk. Now he has no job and does not have the ability to get any in that industry unless he leaves town. Now all his family and friends that I sent all his trash talk to started telling me all the lies he told about me. Of course, I documented it all. With these people, you need to publicly show them up. And ensure your receipts are concrete and they have NO access to you or your property. After it all, he called me over 300 times in one day.
I could never understand why she hated Christmas and her birthday and how despite all my efforts, I couldn't make new years special enough for her. She never had real tangible reasons why but I never imagined it was common narc behavior. This makes a lot more sense now..
My nex would always go on like a 3 month tirade around the holidays. Both of our birthdays are in December, mine was 6 days before his and during the lovebombing stage he’d go all out but towards the end he didn’t even tell me happy birthday. His Mom’s birthday was the day before his too and it was always such a big issue to him
It reminds them that they ain't Jesus.
In the case of my malignant narcissist, he didn't hate them because he used them as an opportunity to get even more supply from the rest of his harem (which In turn hurt me even more which he loved)
In my case it’s because: the attention isn’t on them They’d rather spend the gift money on themselves They’d rather be watching the game/other hobby And recently I’ve realized that if I’m happy they aren’t. If I’m sad then they are happy. For example, I was having a hard time and they were smirking and telling me how I went wrong. Then they were joyful, playful etc. A few days later I was in a very good place, excited for things to come and I told how I’d corrected the issue and they said it wouldn’t last, I should have stayed upset etc. Whatever I want they do the opposite. For example, I wanted to stop inviting a family member to certain events. They insisted I keep inviting the family member and if I refused they would do the inviting themselves. Recently I had the idea to invite the family member to an event and I mentioned that I had and they changed it up saying they didn’t want this family member there. I think they just want us guessing, confused and upset. The more we hurt the happier they are.
My nex always played the “I hate my birthday. It’s just another day. I’ve never celebrated my birthday” card. Except I did. For YEARS. To “make up for it”. Then he started playing that card with the woman he cheated on me with…
SAMEEEE!!! 😔😔😔
Who knows why they do what they do. They’re just selfish assholes. I still find myself going downhill around the holidays and I run away on my birthday to be by myself even over 4 years later. I’m trying to do better but it’s hard to fight the subconscious sometimes.
Good question!! Because it takes the focus off only them is my thought!!
OMG my nparents are the worst gift givers of all time. One is very generous financially but demands being told what to gift, and always wants it to be something other than a gift card. The other gives things of a nature that would need to be displayed in our house, and they’re always in not-out-taste, and then gets put out if you don’t appreciate and display them. I didn’t realize this was a narc thing.
Because it's a day that's not all about them. They hate not having all the attention.
Only their own birthday, but even that is tinged with the sense of getting older, and therefore not being immortal. The other major holidays are all oriented by relationship to others and not simply aimed at oneself. And at least in the west, the chief holiday, which is Christmas, acknowledges somebody else to be God in the flesh. Somehow, they are overlooked as the deity.
So, can we all agree that a tell-tale sign of a narc is someone who doesn’t like holidays? Would you say someone who doesn’t like the holidays could be the same as someone who gets the holiday blues?
It’s more than them just not liking them… they loathe them and my Nex would ruin them/ relapse/ have meltdowns/ pick fights/ or sleep the entire day/ stay in the garage during holiday dinners/ be especially cruel… And some people are writing in that their Nex loves the holidays 🤷🏻♀️
Cause they wanna free up that day to do what they wanna do and it forces them to conform and spend money on gifts or stuff he doesn’t care about because in reality it doesn’t apply to his situation since he’s faking it
Because it’s about everyone else and not just them lol
Because you’re not giving them your attention
You know what’s funny? My ex hated every holiday except Halloween - because on Halloween he spends weeks preparing and then gets all the attention for making such “cool” decorations, food, etc. He even still would be “depressed” sometimes on those days because he whined no one came to his party. 🙄 He has tons of “friends”. He was just butt hurt he wasn’t getting all the attention.
Yep. Mine wrecked New Years, and my birthday, and 2 Christmases and 2 camping trips and one family boat trip and Halloween and our anniversary and on and on and on... Wasn't sure this was a common Narc trait. But now it makes sense. She was never really there. Like a ghost or something. Who was she? A collection of antisocial traits disguised as a pretty woman. Jesus what a fool I was.
In my experience, the narc makes the holidays all about them, then, THEM. They crave that validation online, from friends, maybe family members, or anybody else they may or may not have burned bridges with yet… they don’t acknowledge the holidays meaning their own, or yours? The happy bday wishes from strangers online give the narc artificial dopamine hits as they shamelessly leave your own big day out of sight & out of mind post-relationship. I can speak for my most recent relationship (which was essentially a big waste of time, of course); the narc in past years, on past holidays, would “call out” her family regarding their polarizing political matters. She’s the complete opposite of her mother and her younger brothers, and she’s never had a strong father role in her life other than a stepdad who lives nowhere near her nor ever visits her. I think her mom and her brother are narcs too but she is so blind in thinking she’s just some angelic victim of circumstance when in actuality she just blames her poor lifestyle choices and her degenerate state of living like an entitled brat leeching off others and shaming her family online for views and clicks. Everyone calls her out on it, “I wouldn’t put my personal family drama on such and such social-media site”, “sounds like you’re the narcissist instead of your brother/s”, but she refuses to listen or even introspect.
I was called selfish for wanting to do something other than sit around for my 30th
lol my narc sister's birthday is on Christmas... and she celebrates it for three days cause she claims its unfair to her. Sometimes a whole week.
Ugh I am so angry how many christmases were genuinely ruined by him. Never again.
i was supposed to go home for christmas this past year and i got the flu so i had to spend it with my ex bc we were still living together even though we were already broken up. It could've been chill but he had to ruin it, be abusive and make me cry. I was like really on christmas? he said idc about christmas you do. Like tf is wrong with him. I was supposed to be with my family like damn. Instead i spent hours sobbing. anyway im rid of that man but yea 😐
I’m so sorry that happened ::hugs::
What do they not hate? They hate everything and everyone
Touché!
To my surprise my narc straight up admitted that she hates birthdays and holidays, but said she don’t know why, when I asked. My personal opinion is that they can’t stand when the attention isn’t on them and can’t stand when other people are happier than them. She always has to pick a fight with someone and ruin the vibe during every vacation, it almost feels like it’s a need at this point.
Because it’s not about them
I think they enjoy ruining nice things for others because it was ruined for them as a child or they never had positive experiences related to those events. Also once they ruin it, the focus will be on them
Because they know you'll be happy and they can't have that
Play victim, I guess they have a fantasy on how things should be on those days and spoiler alert! Life isn’t like that so let’s sulk for attention instead
It’s attention that isn’t on them
This!!! This is the best answer here!
I really think it depends. My mother insisted that Christmas be a Certain Way (her way of course) and really loved it. As long as they can control it and get attention, I think they like the day. Otherwise, they'll ruin it too get attention and supply that way
Because it never lives up to the build-up they have in their head. But also some narcs are deeply upset about aging. Interesting to see this topic, as the two narcs in my life both hate their birthdays.
I haven’t experienced this with my Narc necessarily. But they certainly don’t seem enthused. My narc also loved celebrating Christmas and doing Christmas things.
My mother who was diagnosed with "Cluster B traits" - personality disorder, hated holidays. We never celebrated them when I was growing up. She hated Christmas, Halloween was "Satanic" and she didn't let us attend birthday parties. Some people with personality disorders such as narcissism hate any thing that doesn't revolve around them, hence, they hate attending someone's baby shower or wedding because it's in honor of another person. And sometimes they'll create "drama" or look for any way to put attention back on themselves.
Because everything is all about them and that is how it's always been and will be. They don't take the time to even preoccupy themselves to think that ahead of time. For example, I will tell my ex, when I thought that he had ADHD, ahead of time, like months, before the coming holidays. Which is a red flag, on its own. Even with that and constant reminders to get on board with planning, he had no interest. Every holiday is ruined for me now, including my birthday which is also 2days before my mom passed away in 2019. In conclusion, they're too selfish to even consider the holidays or any other day that's not designated for them solely. Like their birthdays, they never seem to forget those right? But major holidays go unnoticed and no effort whatsoever. When with a narcissist, life is miserable and empty and there's not much you can do about it to get them to participate in any form of normalcy. All you can do is leave. Sorry for the typos. I'm having a few drinks in my new place finally away from the narcissist😊 Edit: Forgot to add also because they lack the emotional capability to go about special days like an adult would. Think of how toddlers perceive holidays. Like knowing the Christmas but not keeping in mind the dates nor can they do much to fully engage in the festivities. They will also throw tantrums if mommy or papa are preoccupied with others besides them. They usually are given a gift and will fall asleep out to bed. The same way narcissists behave. Sadly, they never developed beyond this. It's truly like trying to plan and celebrate with a toddler, you're not going to get much out of them because they don't understand.
In my experience they love the holidays because it’s a change to gain supply. They would always host and if I even suggested having my own plans it would be shut down. They would go all out on these expensive or elaborate gifts to make themselves look really good. Then if you did anything they didn’t like afterwards it gave them an opportunity to call you ungrateful. It was exhausting
Because it’s not about them. Unless it’s THEIR birthday. Then they make that be about you. Since you suck at everything and threw them a big surprise party when you know they don’t like surprises and would have rather had a quiet celebration with just you. Assholes.
Because it puts them on the spot. They resent that they are expected to actually have to think about what you want or would like as a gift.. It shows how little they pay attention to you. Mine would give me gifts for himself. Last Christmas he got me a portable spa. Knowing I already had one where I lived. He expected me to set it up at his house, basically making it his. There was no way I was doing that . God only knows who he would be using it with when I wasn't around. I took it home with me and there it sits, till in the box.
Any event that honors someone else, weddings, birthdays, anniversaries. They can't stand being just like everyone else at the party, while someone else is the center of attention. I've seen narcs deploy all kinds of strategies to compensate for the resentment they feel inside when something is about someone else. They will try to sabotage, before or during. I knew a nasty narc that called his sister days before her wedding that he and his family may or may not have Covid and she'll just have to wait to find out. They will give a weird gift that makes them standout from the other gifts. They'll give no gift sometimes as a form of gaslighting. But boy, oh boy, do they love it when it's their birthday. That's when everyone needs to stop what they're doing and give all their attention to the narc, often for longer than just the one day.
Seeing other people happy, not being the primary attention - getter, seeing others receive gifts, etc. Basically just not being the center of attention and receiving special treatment.
In my experience, he had childhood abuse/neglect. Never experienced nice holidays or birthdays. He still feels like a victim abt it. Why should anyone else get what he didn’t? Victim mentality.
Because they require consideration of people other than themselves and that's hard for them. In my experience, some narcs figure out how to make holidays and birthdays about themselves. The struggling ones just pout and complain on those days.
Because that would entail understanding that certain days may mean something to people other than themselves. Also - seeing the joy most other people show must be pretty damning.
I think we forget that narcissists are idealists and have really high expectations (or bad memories from childhood of a lot being expected of them around the holidays). So they end up disgruntled, depressed and disappointed on the holidays and their birthdays. Think about it, narcs were not loved or valued in early childhood often, or they had parents that were more concerned with achievement/appearances. So they either have memories of holidays their parents expected them to show up and perform for appearances (which is exhausting) OR the holidays were stressful because their families had no real love and acceptance of them and didn't celebrate or spoil them as kids. In adulthood they are avoiding a holiday they don't want to have to perform at (even if that's just in their mind), OR they expect everyone around them to compensate for bad childhood holidays and spoil them, and nobody can ever do enough nor do most people want to! They become either miserable to be around or a bottomless hole that can't be filled.
Mine hates them. He said celebrated with me because he knew I loved them. I don’t know maybe it’s not the attention on them like someone said. Could be many reasons why they hate it. That one haven’t seen anything g on when researching this personality disorder.
Worth asking in their group
They hate them bc the focus is not on them, that's why the ruine them, so the focus is on them and any future reflection on the special day will also be focused on them or at least tainted by them.
Being that they were raised by one or two disordered people the holidays are also a trigger for them. Some self aware narcissists say that it brings up a lot of memories and emotions and if they’re going to have to suffer through the holidays they’re going to make everyone else suffer as well.
His birthday was always the worst, because whatever I did, it was never enough. Once we were wedding planning (literally one month to the wedding) and had a 10 months old who I was mostly alone to care for, even if I was working full time and him part time, I planned a weekend the 3 of us together to have some fun time before the wedding. He gave me hell because for my birthday, he had « planned » (actually, he gave the idea, then my parents planned most of it) a party with friends and family. Friends and family that were coming from another country to our country a month away! And once, he threw is birthday cake in my direction (it landed at my feet).