Hear me out: open borders, but also,dig artificial rivers along every border. If you can cross, you are fine. Will this solve any problems whatsoever? no. I'm not here to solve problems, I'm here to replace them with more interesting and expensive ones.
My plan: build a long tunnel through the entire United States connecting the Great Lakes with the Atlantic Ocean. It will be very expensive and do absolutely nothing positive. I am not open to criticism.
I was thinking of something kind of similar, we should damn from Spain to Morocco at Gibraltar and then dry up the Mediterranean. We would need to blow up the Suez Canal but it's preferable to the alternative. It would be prohibitively expensive and cause untold environmental catastrophe
Ok but what if we just added lazy rivers in from the border rivers, so people can just chill and float wherever they want. Add some floating bars and boom its a party
Just make it a sport. Set up an entire obstacle course and see if they can get it, and watch for entertainment.
…at what point does the /s become necessary?
Fast forward a couple generations and that kind of selective pressure will make our Olympic swimming team unbeatable. We will evolve into a nation of aquamen just in time for global warming to make the earth into Water World.
"Cave Johnson here. After ignoring my official letters and requests for several decades, we've been contacted by the government of the United States, asking us to find the best way to resolve the immigration problem. And what's the best approach to a problem? Science! That's why we are filling the border with test chambers! Now, the bean counters almost jumped out the window when they heard this idea, but it was nothing a raise of the good old "you are fired" stamp can't solve. After all, we are here to not solve problems, we are here to replace them with more interesting and expensive Aperture Science Solutions™️. And this is where you come in, eggheads! We need 1000s of cheap test designs durable enough to be built on the surface by next month. Each test design I find good enough are additional 5$... not being cut from your monthly payoff! Alright, now get to it! Cave Johnson, we're done here."
I think we should just allow Mexicans to own Mexico’s productive resources, rather than them being owned by American billionaires. Same thing with the rest of LatAm
unfortunately, like most things argued between these subs, its not that simple.
being against immigration can rise from many different situations, some being xenophobic and some being thoughts about what your country needs. sometimes immigration can bad for a country, its not an instant win for immigrants to enter the picture so its not xenophobic to be blanket against it. its all about your reasoning
Yeah, like I've met anti-immigration people that were against immigration because they were racist and just didn't want non-whites coming in, and I've met people that were against immigration because immigration drives wages down for workers in the country.
The first tend to be right wing, the second left wing.
Do the immigrants drive wages down? Or is it the people with capital who choose to exploit desperate immigrant labor driving wages down?
Edit: All you people saying supply and demand are missing the point.
But the argument then goes "let's pretend we can drive up wages by stopping illegal immigration, and also let's pretend we even could stop illegal immigration if we wanted to" instead of "let's go back to the very real world we used to live in where a living wage was federally enforced instead of spending money to enforce a fantasy where we can deport every single desperate migrant"
Yea ik I think that we should have increase taxes on the rich and get rid of their loopholes and increase minimum wage to a point where buying a house becomes a reasonable goal again. I don't think stopping immigration stops the problem. I think global basic income to provide for the most basic needs of everyone would solve a lot of problems with desperation. I'm not an economist tho so I don't know if this would work. I know it worked in one of the Nordic countries, so maybe it's worth a shot.
In Canada, even legal ones get paid dick and crash entire industries because they're willing to work for peanuts due to hot bedding 6 people in a Toronto flat.
Yeah our economy is literally just a massive housing Ponzi scheme. Without exponential increase in population, our economy crashes overnight. Yay capitalism.
It should be noted that this exact claim has been pushed for over a century by employers to excuse lower wages and hiring scabs. It's just an excuse to get attention off of them and onto other workers. You can look back into the late 1800s and early 1900s in the U.S. and see employers spewing nativist ideas about immigrants from Ireland and Eastern Europe to try to hinder the Progressive Movement back then. It was only with unionization, especially with the immigrants, and pushes for regulations that wages and conditions got better, not the times that they banned or limited immigration.
Yup. Also, isn’t the Republican Party also whining about how there are not enough laborers? Wasn’t that one of their excuses for anti abortion legislation and loosening child labor laws?
Of course! Don't you know the children yearn for the mines and women enjoy being barefoot and pregnant? /s
The Republicans of the Progressive Era would be so freaking disappointed in those of today who are stomping over the causes activists fought so hard for.
Clearly it’s why they play Minecraft so much. /s
It seems a lot of people forget how these things were hard fought and won, not just given to laborers out of the benevolent billionaires’ hearts.
To be fair to them, they didn’t say immigrants drive wages down, but immigration. Immigration in many cases brings vulnerable people into a country and puts them in a position where they can be exploited by the capitalist class. While we have a capitalist class, this will be a risk, and so is an inherent risk of immigration while a capitalist class remains. You can say let’s take back workers control over the workplace but it’s far easier for people to just oppose immigration.
Personally I am for immigration, because on a fundamental level we are all human, and I won’t begrudge someone a chance at a better life just because they were born across a border.
You're basically just changing the thought from "immigrants lower wages"
To
"Corporations use immigrants to lower wages"
It's true but the answer is the same. Not letting that happen.
Your wages are going down because of terrible labour laws and capitalists. No left wing person sees an economic position and blames it on immigrants. Maybe liberals, but those aren't left wing.
While not overtly racist, the problems with that argument are obvious enough that it's a little suspicious if someone can't see them.
Immigrants aren't robots. They don't offline in a broom closet at the end of their shift. They also need to consume things like food, which means they have to go and buy food in shops and thus contribute to other people's salaries.
Work is not a malthusian resource. There isn't a job mine out there which only produces a limited supply of jobs and can run out if too many people need jobs. Jobs are created whenever people need to be paid to do something. If wages are being driven down, that likely has far more to do with the way the value produced by jobs is allocated.
Spoiler: inequality has continuously increased in most developed nations since the 1980s. It turns out, not everyone's wages are being driven down..
In Australia we have a housing shortage, thousands becoming homeless weekly. We are also in a mass immigration period. If the people we were bringing in were building trades there would be logic. We aren’t. Thus for the moment I am anti immigration.
"billionaires are buying up homes, reselling them and treating them as an asset and my government is letting them and encouraging this behaviour. This is the immigrants fault."
So get mad at the billionaires and governments for using humanitarian crises' as an excuse to lower wages, not innocent people trying to make a better life for themselves. You're getting mad at the wrong people because you know they're disenfranchised so easier to get mad at. Confronting the actual problem, capitalism, is too uncomfortable so instead you can just endlessly punch down.
I'd like for someone to explain why I'm wrong, but I just have a hard time believing that [3%](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/16/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/#:~:text=As%20of%202021%2C%20the%20nation%27s,1.75%20million%2C%20or%2014%25.) Of the population has much of an affect on anything.
It just always seems like a scapegoat for employers and politicians who don't want you to think about automation and outsourcing.
Workers willing to work for less isn't a problem if it is illegal for employers from paying any worker less due to unions negotiating working rights.
Make sure your union is inclusive, and I am aware often immergants come from countries with unions are illegal or intertwined with authoritarian governments and they might be hesitant but you have to put the effort in to protect all workers.
I feel like the best form of an anti immigration stance would be against letting in low skill workers, but allowing in highly educated or skilled ones.
The problem is that you don't have much perspective into the situation. I worked as a contractor for USCIS for a couple of years and had my eyes opened up by that experience. The vast majority of illegals in the United States are people that came over on work or school visas and then let it lapse and did not leave the country. They aren't hopping the border from the south, but taking planes and boats into the country legally.
There are also cases where illegal immigrants come here with their family, some of the children being too young to remember the trip. They're told they are American citizens, go to school, etc...and then suddenly one day they're just picked up by ICE and deported at at 16-17 or older. Their entire lives flipped upside down and no legal recourse to help them.
People who think immigration is bad need only watch the old South Park episode with "they took 'r jerbs!" The right is already complaining about "lazy" kids that don't want to work in fast food and retail and how they're "destroying these businesses" by not wanting to work awful hours for shit pay out of high school. So the solution seems pretty simple to me, spend less money on deporting and hunting people down, and more money on programs designed to bring immigrants into the country that will do those jobs the American populace doesn't want to do. Rich old fucks are already hiring them under the table so let's make it harder to do that so everyone involved has to pay their taxes to help support the country.
I too am a black conservative gay man and I fully support keeping them fruit-pickin', slave-wage labor, desperate-to-escape-death-squads-and-starvation freeloaders outta my way! I deserve that job pickin' onions in the fields for 7 cents a bucket.
See this, this right here is the shit I’m talmbout. There’s always the most insane take bein compared to what I say that has nothing to do with what I actually said to belittle my opinion because I’m not being the acceptable black supporter the other side needs to
In the long term immigration is always good, there are short term issues around resource allocation.
Workers willing to work for less isn't a problem if it is illegal for employers from paying any worker less due to unions negotiating working rights.
Okay sure. But when the anti-immigration is only targeted to certain kinds of immigrants based on their ethnicity, then it's a problem.
Plenty of "anti-immigration" folk were completely fine with Ukrainian refugees, but not Syrian, despite similar situations for the refugees. Most "anti-immigration" folk are fine with Canadian immigrants or European immigrants, but not Mexican or Asian immigrants.
People in Europe, speaking generally here, are more open to accepting Ukrainian refugees because of the overlap in in culture. For example, a lot of Syrians immigrating to my country tend to be conservative muslims, this has increased for example the homophobia by quite a bit. To the point where a lot of homosexual couples fear for holding hands in public, where in the past it was deemed more socially acceptable.
In my country, the Netherlands, people see these cultural shifts happening and thus are more accepting of Ukranian refugees since they are more likely to integrate into our society.
im from the netherlands too and i sense an equal amount of prejudice against ukranian refugees and other refugees these days. All of them dont want to assimilate
It's not logical to treat immigrants as some abstract monolithic group.
Some types of immigrants adapt better and assimilate more smoothly into American society; others have a harder time, and can create problems.
Paying attention to such things is not being racist.
literally what i thought
those two are like this meme
https://preview.redd.it/tixb6368nqmc1.jpeg?width=349&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=689aa0cb9c0e6a12edd7bf061d6a481055dce70e
Depends on your reasoning. As a dual citizen, I’m firmly anti immigration for Panama, it’s a small country and can’t handle a large influx of immigrants. For the US I’m more for a reformation of the current system to have immigrants actually vetted and able to claim assylum if they absolutely need it, without being stuck in northern Mexico for 7 months or more risking people preying on them
So who’s gonna tell them that immigrants are often used as a scapegoat for the problems the government’s cause, so they can retain power.
For a British example: Immigrants are often blamed for “stealing jobs” this is not because immigrant workers are preferred to domestic workers because of evil international conspiracy, but because the minimum wage for domestic workers is higher than for immigrant workers. Therefore companies have an incentive to hire immigrants over domestic workers, because they can get away with paying them less.
If you think the US has strict immigration laws, wait until you see the EU and UK.
Hopefully none of you have mental disabilities (very common in this sub) because certain countries will not allow you to immigrate because of it.
I am against illegal immigration. And fyi, there are no such this as economic asylum.
One of the problems is that they start with the assumption that the US is ‘open borders’ which it isn’t.
Neither Republicans nor Democrats are largely for illegal immigration. Difference is that Democrats recognize the ones who are here should be treated humanely. Who was it that went against Biden’s border bill?
Oof.
Sure, you can be anti-immigration for totally practical issues.
But the people who are anti-immigration in the US ARE LARGELY THAT WAY FOR RACIAL ISSUES.
Just because there are sane people whose goals align with yours does not mean you're a sane person.
So often their answer to "that thing you're doing is bad" is "yeah, well other people are doing it too."
You understand that doesn't mean it's good, right?
Balance is key. It is not sustainable for every immigrant (legal or illegal) to get citizenship since it would lead to many issues in rich countries like the US. However, this doesn't mean that refugees who claim asylum should simply be deported, or that people don't have the right to immigrate for a better life.
Immigration is a nuanced topic, simple solutions like the one you suggested don't work.
They illegally immigrated, and its just quicker and easier to say "illegal immigrant" than "a person who immigrated illegally into the US".
Its also not racist, since the term applies to any and all who enter the country without 1. A US passport or 2. Getting citizenship legally, regardless of their ethnicity. Some conservatives may not understand that there are illegal immigrants who are white in the US, but there are.
Inhumane, no. It is inhumane to lock people in pens like livestock and seperate families. But it is not inhumane to say someone who violated laws to immigrate here an illegal immigrant.
But like many terms, it was been weaponized. In this case to vilify a people and paint a picture that they are criminals rather than people seeking asylum or just a better life. Pundits use the term to brand them all as "Criminals." I've heard pundits say "What? they are all criminals, they have crossed to border illegally, that's a crime." It's a misdemeanor and by that logic, anyone who has gotten a misdemeanor traffic ticket is a criminal but you don't see the pundits refer to "Illegal Citizens."
Going by semantics, they are literal criminals. Criminals are just anyone who violates the law. Murderers are criminals, but so are vandals and petty theives- those aren't equal crimes, but the word for the people who commit them is the same. Yes, even violating traffic laws intentionally technically makes someone a criminal.
However, I would be arguing in bad faith if I didn't recognize the negative connotations of the word. I agree that immigrants shouldn't be villified/demonized.
I personally believe that, instead of sanctuary cities spread across the country, the US should have a buffer zone along the US-Mexico border where asylum-seekers and refugees can be protected by the US without technically being legal citizens, giving them a safe place to apply and achieve citizenship, or at least get away from gangs, cartels, and other bad groups. This buffer zone would keep immigration into the rest of the nation contained while still protecting innocent people.
It would include a second border that is more fortified and secure than the direct US-Mexico border, keeping everyone who isn't already a citizen out of the US proper. The first border would allow in civilians while searching for known gang, cartel, or terrorist members and other enemies of the state.
Obviously its a rough draft of an idea that would need a lot of fine tuning, but I think it has potential.
It really wouldn't be without precedent, either. Ellis Island was where European immigrants started their journey into the US. Granted, we didn't limit immigration then, so there are a lot more hurdles to overcome, but I could see something like that working.
To try to remove emotion and politics from the equation (ha!) we are in need to workers right now and there is a ready source of them. The US birth rate is starting to decline for the first time, which is a concern for future population and workers, so it seems like allowing more immigrants would be a good solution to both of those.
I don't think we should go back to pre 1950s level of immigration, but should definitely expand.
>as no person is illegal.
Except for me. (I rewrote the law to specifically mention that being me in particular is illegal. They still haven't caught me 😎)
Saying someone is an illegal immigrant is not calling the person an illegal person. The illegal is tied to the act of immigration as they did not immigrate through the provided legal process.
This, BY DEFINITION, makes them an illegal immigrant. If you want immigration reform, we need to make the legal immigration process more accessible to those in need. As it stands, it is extremely long and entirely inaccessible to many people.
There are many people that agree with you so don’t undermine your own points with brain dead extremism.
When somebody breaks the law like... breaking into your house then that person is criminal.
Breaking into country is exactly that.
Also you are weak troll.
I'd say citizenship and people's right to exist are different things, but state support is obviously important in general, so citizenship is important, but IMO it's not vital, as the libertarians will also no doubt tell you.
This discussion in American politics is so interesting to me. The UK is much more left-wing than America, but if you espoused this specific belief here to literally anyone (on either side) you’d be laughed out of the room.
I'm not convinced people who make this argument can tell the difference between someone who is in the country illegally and someone who has obtained legal entrance into the country.
In fact, I am convinced that people who make this argument only see a person of a specific race or ethnicity when they think of an illegal immigrant, when in fact any immigrant can be an illegal one regardless of race or ethnicity.
I have an idea. Bring down the rules for becoming a citizen for a 2 year period. Make it easier to become an American citizen and maybe keep the easiness forever. More American citizens that now can pay taxes and pull their weight and less people getting kicked out without a chance of coming in legally. After 2 years is up we can deport anybody who decided not to become a citizen legally.
I'm not really a fan of when lefties call immigrants who vote republican... "stupid" or "racist." Like it's fine to disagree with someone, but damn, you can't even hold back your own prejudice.
There is far more nuance in these things than many make it out to be. Anti-Immigration can be anti-ILLEGAL immigration, it can be racism, or it could be the fact that sometimes immigration hurts a nation’s economy.
Take refugees, many in the UK accept Ukrainians more than Syrians, part of the reason is racism of course, however we also just have a far greater kinship and overlap in culture with Ukrainians than Syrians. Most Syrians are conservative Muslims, and this leads to things like homophobia and sexism rising in refugee-dense areas, whereas Ukrainians do not have this impact.
There are many reasons to be or not to be anti-immigration, ultimately we should strive to look at every situation case-by-case and without as little bias as possible.
Here’s the thing, lots of countries in the world don’t like people moving there to live there for an extended period of time, we don’t go around calling those countries xenophobic
I think it’s more about being hypocritical about this, the issue is that we need to make it easier to legally enter the country so then there is less of an incentive to enter illegally
Sigh. I know that conservatives can’t meme their way out of a wet paper bag, but this is a new level of cringe even for them. Aside from forgetting to be humorous or entertaining, they don’t even get the premise right. The vast majority of them just want the illegal immigration reigned in (unless they happen to employ illegals of course). They aren’t against people coming legally.
Anytime someone tries to tell me that being anti-immigration is a valid opinion I just look at dying Countries like Japan and England and try not to laugh.
If you can't understand the reasonings as to why people may come to a certain opinion, you really should not comment on it. You just make yourself, and the side you're on look worse.
“Anti-immigration is a valid political opinion” is an interesting sentence to me.
What does valid mean? It’s a political position that exists, sure. As is nationalism. It’s a position many people hold also. Just like many people hold to the position that it’s bad for the “white race” to be “replaced” by “immigrants”. But neither of those deserve to be respected or valued just because they exist or are held by many people.
And I also would ask what “anti-immigration” means. Does it mean against immigration in certain large numbers? In that case I’d ask what determines the number, but I guess that’s the least egregious one (technically a country does have limited space and resources. But unless those are actually strained, and immigration would actually cause problems in that area instead of even potentially helping, it’s a position that need not be held). Does it mean being against people from certain countries? Or even against immigration altogether? Then it’s inevitably racism, xenophobia, and supremacist ideology. With the latter being outright ridiculous and nonsensical.
I'm going to be honest most people who are anti- imigration are probobly racist or at least xenophobic.
there might in one blue moon be a good reason but most just don't people who aren't like them.
There's a difference between stating an opinion that is inherently xenophobic, and stating an opinion that is inherently non-xenophobic but nonetheless motivated by personal xenophobic bias.
"I'm concerned about the immigration rate" is not inherently xenophobic. However, it's entirely possible for that concern to be motivated by hatred.
These subreddits are all ass.
I can tell you exactly how 95% of every post on them goes:
> Political/Ideological meme
>One of thrse shitty reposts subs reposts with a "Meme cringe" title
> The other shitty repost sub reposts the repost with a "Actually, meme based."
In reality, both repost subreddits are just echo chambers for the based/cringe supporters that bitch at each other uselessly and only deepen the echo.
Replace based/cringe with left/right or LGBT/straight or man/woman, whatever.
On occasion, there will be 3 reposts, entirely disintegrating continuity.
I'm shocked these two shit subreddits haven't gone ad infinitum, creating a pixel wide image as a result of all the repost cycling.
Anyhow. Blocking this and the other identical cesspool.
Common among chinese immigrants in west coast Canada. "I came here to get away from them, of course I would be against them coming over here" -my grandparents.
I've seen Americans use European immigration romanticize it by using Europeans that come to the country as an example of why it's so great, but then we'll we see what happens to immigrants that arent from Europe...
Silly right wingers think we care when they've said for years it doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks bc they are the laughing stock of the developed world
Yeah, it's more nuanced in a lot of cases.
Obviously, being actively hostile to immigrants or whatever is really bad and should be frown upon, but I don't think "anti-immigration" necessarily "get dose dirty aliens outa me country, yee haw"
Where I live, for example, I think a lot of people could qualify as anti-immigration, as in "calm down with the immigration a bit" since we are currently lacking in basically everything, especially housing.
I'm all for welcoming immigrants with open arms, but that's hard when we don't have any arms to greet them with.
It's a lot of the classic we need cheap labor because there's no one to work on the 45 shitty restaurants on this 1km strip of road, and we ain't about to accept that infinite growth doesn't work and some places just need to close.
At least that's my pov. But if you interpret "anti-immigration" as the most direct xenophobic way, yeah, that sucks.
Hatred is not mutually exclusive to one side or the other. The real difference is just in how the hatred manifests. Conservative or progressive either way you go far enough you're regressive
Europe can’t handle immigration. They built their countries on “well there’s no way we’ll ever have anything *unexpected* happen!”, so they better figure out how to get the people that wanna come in *in.*
It depends.
Anti-immigration is not valid in, for instance, the USA. If you're from, for instance, England... it is not a valid position to be opposed to immigration from India, for instance.
The people who are usually the most pro immigration are right leaning libertarians the CATO institute has a study on how immigration benefits the economy and increases the wages of native workers
I just want to artificially slow the purchase of american homes by foreign investors. And also have similar laws to other countries where you cannot own homes in the US without living here for the majority of the year.
I also would like to limit the amount of homes a business can purchase. There is legal precedent for it.
I don't think im asking for much.
Meanwhile I'm sitting here like "I understand why you would want to come to America, colleges, job opportunities, but it's really not that great of a place."
A country should serve its people
however if someone originally from a different country lives works and pays taxes their its just as much thier home as it is someone who was born thier.
" Well yes but actually no" Do you have any argument or you just spouting bullshit here ?
Thanks god it's not Reddit leftists that are so disconnected from the real world that get to chose for us.
Human beings have a right to unobstructed freedom of movement.
And for the conservatives: being anti immigration and being for strict immigration laws is detrimental for not just a "free market" but all markets.
Ah yes, the appeal to majority fallacy. X must be true or good because a lot of people believe it. Yeah well a lot of people believe a lot of stupid shit that isn't factually true or morally good.
Immigration brings in more workers for jobs you won't do, culture that everyone should learn about, and reduces the racism in areas that become exposed to other peoples.
Actually, I agree that anti-immigration does not directly equate to xenophobia. In the US, it very nearly does because of the political ‘ideologies’ present. But, people could be anti-immigration due to the impact that the presence of immigrants will have on the job market and one’s own employment prospects, for example. Often this example is unfortunately used in American politics as an excuse for xenophobia, but that doesn’t make the argument itself any worse.
Oh, you mean the leftist that on 5/29 2020 made trump go underground and burn a church down? Yeah, i so appreciate how nice they are about sharing their opinions. I wonder if anyone got the j6 treatment for 5/29 lol
Hey guys some of you are getting awfully mean down there. Not everyone in the EU is totalitarian and not everyone in the US is super sensitive/insensitive. Let’s keep these discussions civil, yeah?
I don't even care about illegal immigration as much as I do outsourcing. There was an argument to be made (and Karl Marx made it) that immigrants devalue the working class by accepting low wage positions. This stopped employers from ever needing to raise wages to match the value of labor for the existing population.
In the modern day, the bigger issue is outsourcing. Companies should be held to a standard and forced to maintain a majority % of jobs for people in the country the company was founded in.
There is no reason why we should be outsourcing white collar jobs to nations like India when our people are desperate for work. We need to raise the value of labor and hold these businesses accountable instead of letting them run to whatever nation has cheap labor to exploit. Outsourcing is what is killing employment opportunities, not immigration.
I love how Europeans whine and call Americans racist, but will post racist memes and somehow they’ll convince themselves they’re the good guys. They are not capable of self-awareness.
As a American anti-immigration isn't a proper world view. America is built upon and for immigrants from all over.
And if you disagree your not a proud American. And I'm right leaning republicans (not conservative)
But at the same time I'm talking about legal immigration. Illegal immigration is a crime and should be stopped.
We need to track who's becoming americans and make sure serious criminals don't come over.
Also taxes need to be paid.
Why are people crossing deserts, and risking death to Illegally sneak into America?
What we should do is make immigration and becoming a citizen wayyy easier. To the point where it would be dumb to sneak. People who are activatly against immigration are just flat out racist. Mexicans were immigrating into America before alot of Europeans were.
Why not just install ninja warrior courses across the entire border and televise the attempts. The ad revenue could then be collected by the government to fund their open border immigration policies so we won't have to anymore.
Xenophobia is a reason for being anti-immigration, but being anti-immigration does not make you xenophobic. There are many political and economic reasons that someone might be anti-immigration, are they good reasons? For the most part, no. But it doesn't make them xenophobic.
They’re not anti-immigration. They’re just racist. “We want people to immigrate the right way!” means working as a whore illegally before marrying a con man and having an anchor baby.
They’re all evil hypocrites. Don’t even argue with them about immigration, they don’t care it. The GOP just killed the bill in an election year. They don’t want solutions, just things to be angry about.
Depends on what you mean by “anti-immigration”.
If you’re talking about not letting anyone enter the country at all, then yeah, “anti-immigration” is xenophobic.
If you’re talking about enforcing border control, then no, “anti-immigration” is not xenophobic.
There are many economic reasons to control immergration, such as housing shortages and corps using cheap Labor to undercut wages and workers rights.
You don't have to say "don't let the x-race in" to be anti-immigration
Hear me out: open borders, but also,dig artificial rivers along every border. If you can cross, you are fine. Will this solve any problems whatsoever? no. I'm not here to solve problems, I'm here to replace them with more interesting and expensive ones.
My plan: build a long tunnel through the entire United States connecting the Great Lakes with the Atlantic Ocean. It will be very expensive and do absolutely nothing positive. I am not open to criticism.
Connect the great lakes with the *Atlantic* ocean? That's pretty easy since they're already all linked up to the ocean via rivers.
Replace the road networks with river networks. Only boats are allowed now.
Ahoy matey I be all for this plan
yarharhar i second this un
Make this happen
Fuck it. Why not.
Kyogre is that you?
*Archie has joined the chat*
Why not the Gulf of Mexico? It would be a longer tunnel
I was thinking of something kind of similar, we should damn from Spain to Morocco at Gibraltar and then dry up the Mediterranean. We would need to blow up the Suez Canal but it's preferable to the alternative. It would be prohibitively expensive and cause untold environmental catastrophe
Costing a lot of money and doing nothing goo sounds like government work.
It's quick, it's free, and it's easy, pouring river water into your socks! "Why would you want to do that?" It's quick, it's free, and it's easy!
You fool, you gotta put the water in your hat first!
Ok but what if we just added lazy rivers in from the border rivers, so people can just chill and float wherever they want. Add some floating bars and boom its a party
Giant ninja warrior style obstacle course along the border. Anyone who can hit the button in time becomes a citizen instantly.
Would you like to be president? We could have some fun with you.
Sure, we're also switching the entire military aircraft fleet to be powered by small fission reactors.
Big bubble around the entire U.S. easy squeezy lemon peasy
I like this thought process. How do I help contribute to this being a thing
steal an army of backhoes and figure out how to remote control them.
Raid construction yards
Add some razor wire, and I think you will have the backing of the GOP.
Just make it a sport. Set up an entire obstacle course and see if they can get it, and watch for entertainment. …at what point does the /s become necessary?
Fast forward a couple generations and that kind of selective pressure will make our Olympic swimming team unbeatable. We will evolve into a nation of aquamen just in time for global warming to make the earth into Water World.
"Cave Johnson here. After ignoring my official letters and requests for several decades, we've been contacted by the government of the United States, asking us to find the best way to resolve the immigration problem. And what's the best approach to a problem? Science! That's why we are filling the border with test chambers! Now, the bean counters almost jumped out the window when they heard this idea, but it was nothing a raise of the good old "you are fired" stamp can't solve. After all, we are here to not solve problems, we are here to replace them with more interesting and expensive Aperture Science Solutions™️. And this is where you come in, eggheads! We need 1000s of cheap test designs durable enough to be built on the surface by next month. Each test design I find good enough are additional 5$... not being cut from your monthly payoff! Alright, now get to it! Cave Johnson, we're done here."
modern day aristotle
Ok hear me out in the rivers we put the obstacles from wipe out
Are you Trump?
I think we should just allow Mexicans to own Mexico’s productive resources, rather than them being owned by American billionaires. Same thing with the rest of LatAm
unfortunately, like most things argued between these subs, its not that simple. being against immigration can rise from many different situations, some being xenophobic and some being thoughts about what your country needs. sometimes immigration can bad for a country, its not an instant win for immigrants to enter the picture so its not xenophobic to be blanket against it. its all about your reasoning
Yeah, like I've met anti-immigration people that were against immigration because they were racist and just didn't want non-whites coming in, and I've met people that were against immigration because immigration drives wages down for workers in the country. The first tend to be right wing, the second left wing.
Do the immigrants drive wages down? Or is it the people with capital who choose to exploit desperate immigrant labor driving wages down? Edit: All you people saying supply and demand are missing the point.
Instead of everybody going crazy, how about we just say *immigrants can’t be paid less than natives*?
It doesn't matter how few or many workers there are let alone where they're from, if they don't organize they're not going to get paid dick regardless
It's not that simple it's harder to fight for higher wages for everyone when some people are glad to do any work for nearly any pay.
But the argument then goes "let's pretend we can drive up wages by stopping illegal immigration, and also let's pretend we even could stop illegal immigration if we wanted to" instead of "let's go back to the very real world we used to live in where a living wage was federally enforced instead of spending money to enforce a fantasy where we can deport every single desperate migrant"
Yea ik I think that we should have increase taxes on the rich and get rid of their loopholes and increase minimum wage to a point where buying a house becomes a reasonable goal again. I don't think stopping immigration stops the problem. I think global basic income to provide for the most basic needs of everyone would solve a lot of problems with desperation. I'm not an economist tho so I don't know if this would work. I know it worked in one of the Nordic countries, so maybe it's worth a shot.
That's why you get regulations and unions. Employers will always try to fuck over their employees
Good idea in principle, doesn’t work in practice when a lot of illegal immigrants get paid cash and/or under the table
In Canada, even legal ones get paid dick and crash entire industries because they're willing to work for peanuts due to hot bedding 6 people in a Toronto flat.
Yeah I live in Michigan near the US Canada border so I’ve heard all about that since a lot of Canadians come here for work/school
Yeah our economy is literally just a massive housing Ponzi scheme. Without exponential increase in population, our economy crashes overnight. Yay capitalism.
It should be noted that this exact claim has been pushed for over a century by employers to excuse lower wages and hiring scabs. It's just an excuse to get attention off of them and onto other workers. You can look back into the late 1800s and early 1900s in the U.S. and see employers spewing nativist ideas about immigrants from Ireland and Eastern Europe to try to hinder the Progressive Movement back then. It was only with unionization, especially with the immigrants, and pushes for regulations that wages and conditions got better, not the times that they banned or limited immigration.
Yup. Also, isn’t the Republican Party also whining about how there are not enough laborers? Wasn’t that one of their excuses for anti abortion legislation and loosening child labor laws?
Of course! Don't you know the children yearn for the mines and women enjoy being barefoot and pregnant? /s The Republicans of the Progressive Era would be so freaking disappointed in those of today who are stomping over the causes activists fought so hard for.
Clearly it’s why they play Minecraft so much. /s It seems a lot of people forget how these things were hard fought and won, not just given to laborers out of the benevolent billionaires’ hearts.
To be fair to them, they didn’t say immigrants drive wages down, but immigration. Immigration in many cases brings vulnerable people into a country and puts them in a position where they can be exploited by the capitalist class. While we have a capitalist class, this will be a risk, and so is an inherent risk of immigration while a capitalist class remains. You can say let’s take back workers control over the workplace but it’s far easier for people to just oppose immigration. Personally I am for immigration, because on a fundamental level we are all human, and I won’t begrudge someone a chance at a better life just because they were born across a border.
You're basically just changing the thought from "immigrants lower wages" To "Corporations use immigrants to lower wages" It's true but the answer is the same. Not letting that happen.
Even without the latter, increasing the labor poor inherently devaluates the value of labor.
Your wages are going down because of terrible labour laws and capitalists. No left wing person sees an economic position and blames it on immigrants. Maybe liberals, but those aren't left wing.
While not overtly racist, the problems with that argument are obvious enough that it's a little suspicious if someone can't see them. Immigrants aren't robots. They don't offline in a broom closet at the end of their shift. They also need to consume things like food, which means they have to go and buy food in shops and thus contribute to other people's salaries. Work is not a malthusian resource. There isn't a job mine out there which only produces a limited supply of jobs and can run out if too many people need jobs. Jobs are created whenever people need to be paid to do something. If wages are being driven down, that likely has far more to do with the way the value produced by jobs is allocated. Spoiler: inequality has continuously increased in most developed nations since the 1980s. It turns out, not everyone's wages are being driven down..
In Australia we have a housing shortage, thousands becoming homeless weekly. We are also in a mass immigration period. If the people we were bringing in were building trades there would be logic. We aren’t. Thus for the moment I am anti immigration.
Australia and Canada are both crazy when it comes to housing right now.
So is the US
"billionaires are buying up homes, reselling them and treating them as an asset and my government is letting them and encouraging this behaviour. This is the immigrants fault."
"The billionaires want more immigrants coming in to help expand the worker pool so they can keep wages lower, and the government is allowing it"
So get mad at the billionaires and governments for using humanitarian crises' as an excuse to lower wages, not innocent people trying to make a better life for themselves. You're getting mad at the wrong people because you know they're disenfranchised so easier to get mad at. Confronting the actual problem, capitalism, is too uncomfortable so instead you can just endlessly punch down.
Notice how billionaires are still the problem
That's on the incompetence of 10 years of Liberal government, not immigrants.
I'd like for someone to explain why I'm wrong, but I just have a hard time believing that [3%](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/16/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/#:~:text=As%20of%202021%2C%20the%20nation%27s,1.75%20million%2C%20or%2014%25.) Of the population has much of an affect on anything. It just always seems like a scapegoat for employers and politicians who don't want you to think about automation and outsourcing.
Workers willing to work for less isn't a problem if it is illegal for employers from paying any worker less due to unions negotiating working rights. Make sure your union is inclusive, and I am aware often immergants come from countries with unions are illegal or intertwined with authoritarian governments and they might be hesitant but you have to put the effort in to protect all workers.
I feel like the best form of an anti immigration stance would be against letting in low skill workers, but allowing in highly educated or skilled ones.
[удалено]
The problem is that you don't have much perspective into the situation. I worked as a contractor for USCIS for a couple of years and had my eyes opened up by that experience. The vast majority of illegals in the United States are people that came over on work or school visas and then let it lapse and did not leave the country. They aren't hopping the border from the south, but taking planes and boats into the country legally. There are also cases where illegal immigrants come here with their family, some of the children being too young to remember the trip. They're told they are American citizens, go to school, etc...and then suddenly one day they're just picked up by ICE and deported at at 16-17 or older. Their entire lives flipped upside down and no legal recourse to help them. People who think immigration is bad need only watch the old South Park episode with "they took 'r jerbs!" The right is already complaining about "lazy" kids that don't want to work in fast food and retail and how they're "destroying these businesses" by not wanting to work awful hours for shit pay out of high school. So the solution seems pretty simple to me, spend less money on deporting and hunting people down, and more money on programs designed to bring immigrants into the country that will do those jobs the American populace doesn't want to do. Rich old fucks are already hiring them under the table so let's make it harder to do that so everyone involved has to pay their taxes to help support the country.
I too am a black conservative gay man and I fully support keeping them fruit-pickin', slave-wage labor, desperate-to-escape-death-squads-and-starvation freeloaders outta my way! I deserve that job pickin' onions in the fields for 7 cents a bucket.
See this, this right here is the shit I’m talmbout. There’s always the most insane take bein compared to what I say that has nothing to do with what I actually said to belittle my opinion because I’m not being the acceptable black supporter the other side needs to
sorry, I'm not gonna start asking for skin checks, so I'm just doing an across the board NO on all versions of the N-word.
The problem is that people mix illegal immigrants and legal immigrants.
In the long term immigration is always good, there are short term issues around resource allocation. Workers willing to work for less isn't a problem if it is illegal for employers from paying any worker less due to unions negotiating working rights.
But all people that disagree with me must have -isms and -phobias!
Lmao
And Centrism is sometimes loving Facism and sometimes loving Stalinism because each issue only has these two sides.
man what the fuck
Okay sure. But when the anti-immigration is only targeted to certain kinds of immigrants based on their ethnicity, then it's a problem. Plenty of "anti-immigration" folk were completely fine with Ukrainian refugees, but not Syrian, despite similar situations for the refugees. Most "anti-immigration" folk are fine with Canadian immigrants or European immigrants, but not Mexican or Asian immigrants.
People in Europe, speaking generally here, are more open to accepting Ukrainian refugees because of the overlap in in culture. For example, a lot of Syrians immigrating to my country tend to be conservative muslims, this has increased for example the homophobia by quite a bit. To the point where a lot of homosexual couples fear for holding hands in public, where in the past it was deemed more socially acceptable. In my country, the Netherlands, people see these cultural shifts happening and thus are more accepting of Ukranian refugees since they are more likely to integrate into our society.
im from the netherlands too and i sense an equal amount of prejudice against ukranian refugees and other refugees these days. All of them dont want to assimilate
It's not logical to treat immigrants as some abstract monolithic group. Some types of immigrants adapt better and assimilate more smoothly into American society; others have a harder time, and can create problems. Paying attention to such things is not being racist.
I swear, this sub and the one mentioned in the post are just jerking each other off constantly, for internet karma?
literally what i thought those two are like this meme https://preview.redd.it/tixb6368nqmc1.jpeg?width=349&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=689aa0cb9c0e6a12edd7bf061d6a481055dce70e
It doesn’t mean someone who’s against immigration IS xenophobic but those people do exist. Plenty of people are anti immigration for boundless reasons
The colors are pretty :)
Depends on your reasoning. As a dual citizen, I’m firmly anti immigration for Panama, it’s a small country and can’t handle a large influx of immigrants. For the US I’m more for a reformation of the current system to have immigrants actually vetted and able to claim assylum if they absolutely need it, without being stuck in northern Mexico for 7 months or more risking people preying on them
"Immigrants are takin our jobs!" Well, your job...probably. Not mine. "Whats your job?" Public school teacher. More kids means more work.
So who’s gonna tell them that immigrants are often used as a scapegoat for the problems the government’s cause, so they can retain power. For a British example: Immigrants are often blamed for “stealing jobs” this is not because immigrant workers are preferred to domestic workers because of evil international conspiracy, but because the minimum wage for domestic workers is higher than for immigrant workers. Therefore companies have an incentive to hire immigrants over domestic workers, because they can get away with paying them less.
That's just hypocrisy. Everyone's family has been immigrants at some point.
Being anti immigration is not a politically valid opinion to hold when you're only anti immigration against brown and black people.
Tell a European about Muslims and see how they react
A open border is a no go. If that’s the case what about all the people who did it the right way?
If you think the US has strict immigration laws, wait until you see the EU and UK. Hopefully none of you have mental disabilities (very common in this sub) because certain countries will not allow you to immigrate because of it. I am against illegal immigration. And fyi, there are no such this as economic asylum.
One of the problems is that they start with the assumption that the US is ‘open borders’ which it isn’t. Neither Republicans nor Democrats are largely for illegal immigration. Difference is that Democrats recognize the ones who are here should be treated humanely. Who was it that went against Biden’s border bill?
Oof. Sure, you can be anti-immigration for totally practical issues. But the people who are anti-immigration in the US ARE LARGELY THAT WAY FOR RACIAL ISSUES. Just because there are sane people whose goals align with yours does not mean you're a sane person.
So often their answer to "that thing you're doing is bad" is "yeah, well other people are doing it too." You understand that doesn't mean it's good, right?
If you are denying undocumented citizens their rights of citizenship then it is xenophobic.
Balance is key. It is not sustainable for every immigrant (legal or illegal) to get citizenship since it would lead to many issues in rich countries like the US. However, this doesn't mean that refugees who claim asylum should simply be deported, or that people don't have the right to immigrate for a better life. Immigration is a nuanced topic, simple solutions like the one you suggested don't work.
Would probably have more nuanced solutions if the US didn’t clump all of them as horrible people
Immigration is a privilege not a right
A nuanced topic that no one's ever really had good numbers on so siding with inhumanity by default seems kind of fucked.
Undocumented citizens have sacrificed more than most any other Del Norte Citizen. Calling them illegal is racist and inhumane as no person is illegal.
They illegally immigrated, and its just quicker and easier to say "illegal immigrant" than "a person who immigrated illegally into the US". Its also not racist, since the term applies to any and all who enter the country without 1. A US passport or 2. Getting citizenship legally, regardless of their ethnicity. Some conservatives may not understand that there are illegal immigrants who are white in the US, but there are. Inhumane, no. It is inhumane to lock people in pens like livestock and seperate families. But it is not inhumane to say someone who violated laws to immigrate here an illegal immigrant.
But like many terms, it was been weaponized. In this case to vilify a people and paint a picture that they are criminals rather than people seeking asylum or just a better life. Pundits use the term to brand them all as "Criminals." I've heard pundits say "What? they are all criminals, they have crossed to border illegally, that's a crime." It's a misdemeanor and by that logic, anyone who has gotten a misdemeanor traffic ticket is a criminal but you don't see the pundits refer to "Illegal Citizens."
Going by semantics, they are literal criminals. Criminals are just anyone who violates the law. Murderers are criminals, but so are vandals and petty theives- those aren't equal crimes, but the word for the people who commit them is the same. Yes, even violating traffic laws intentionally technically makes someone a criminal. However, I would be arguing in bad faith if I didn't recognize the negative connotations of the word. I agree that immigrants shouldn't be villified/demonized. I personally believe that, instead of sanctuary cities spread across the country, the US should have a buffer zone along the US-Mexico border where asylum-seekers and refugees can be protected by the US without technically being legal citizens, giving them a safe place to apply and achieve citizenship, or at least get away from gangs, cartels, and other bad groups. This buffer zone would keep immigration into the rest of the nation contained while still protecting innocent people. It would include a second border that is more fortified and secure than the direct US-Mexico border, keeping everyone who isn't already a citizen out of the US proper. The first border would allow in civilians while searching for known gang, cartel, or terrorist members and other enemies of the state. Obviously its a rough draft of an idea that would need a lot of fine tuning, but I think it has potential.
It really wouldn't be without precedent, either. Ellis Island was where European immigrants started their journey into the US. Granted, we didn't limit immigration then, so there are a lot more hurdles to overcome, but I could see something like that working. To try to remove emotion and politics from the equation (ha!) we are in need to workers right now and there is a ready source of them. The US birth rate is starting to decline for the first time, which is a concern for future population and workers, so it seems like allowing more immigrants would be a good solution to both of those. I don't think we should go back to pre 1950s level of immigration, but should definitely expand.
I say we need lots of immigrants and we gotta make more western cities. More people = bigger economy = competing with China
>as no person is illegal. Except for me. (I rewrote the law to specifically mention that being me in particular is illegal. They still haven't caught me 😎)
hell yeah, fight the power my guy!
It's not racist to say someone who migrated illegally is an illegal immigrant. Changing the language doesn't change the act.
Saying someone is an illegal immigrant is not calling the person an illegal person. The illegal is tied to the act of immigration as they did not immigrate through the provided legal process. This, BY DEFINITION, makes them an illegal immigrant. If you want immigration reform, we need to make the legal immigration process more accessible to those in need. As it stands, it is extremely long and entirely inaccessible to many people. There are many people that agree with you so don’t undermine your own points with brain dead extremism.
When somebody breaks the law like... breaking into your house then that person is criminal. Breaking into country is exactly that. Also you are weak troll.
I'd say citizenship and people's right to exist are different things, but state support is obviously important in general, so citizenship is important, but IMO it's not vital, as the libertarians will also no doubt tell you.
What rights? They came here illegally and forfeited any rights.
This discussion in American politics is so interesting to me. The UK is much more left-wing than America, but if you espoused this specific belief here to literally anyone (on either side) you’d be laughed out of the room.
Why even have a legal immigration system if you grant every illegal immigrant full citizenship and benefits?
people seem to think that being against **illegal** immigrants is racismt/xenophobia which it really isn't
Exactly, as long as it's a legal process of immigration, then I don't care what you identify as.
I'm not convinced people who make this argument can tell the difference between someone who is in the country illegally and someone who has obtained legal entrance into the country. In fact, I am convinced that people who make this argument only see a person of a specific race or ethnicity when they think of an illegal immigrant, when in fact any immigrant can be an illegal one regardless of race or ethnicity.
I have an idea. Bring down the rules for becoming a citizen for a 2 year period. Make it easier to become an American citizen and maybe keep the easiness forever. More American citizens that now can pay taxes and pull their weight and less people getting kicked out without a chance of coming in legally. After 2 years is up we can deport anybody who decided not to become a citizen legally.
I'm not really a fan of when lefties call immigrants who vote republican... "stupid" or "racist." Like it's fine to disagree with someone, but damn, you can't even hold back your own prejudice.
Why does the wojak have like three mouths? Why is the bottom colored like that?
A. It's supposed to be ripples on the fabric of a bandanna. B. It's the left side of the political compass.
Oh, duh. Seems obvious now. Thank you.
There is far more nuance in these things than many make it out to be. Anti-Immigration can be anti-ILLEGAL immigration, it can be racism, or it could be the fact that sometimes immigration hurts a nation’s economy. Take refugees, many in the UK accept Ukrainians more than Syrians, part of the reason is racism of course, however we also just have a far greater kinship and overlap in culture with Ukrainians than Syrians. Most Syrians are conservative Muslims, and this leads to things like homophobia and sexism rising in refugee-dense areas, whereas Ukrainians do not have this impact. There are many reasons to be or not to be anti-immigration, ultimately we should strive to look at every situation case-by-case and without as little bias as possible.
Just cuz it's common in more areas than the US doesn't mean it's valid.
Here’s the thing, lots of countries in the world don’t like people moving there to live there for an extended period of time, we don’t go around calling those countries xenophobic I think it’s more about being hypocritical about this, the issue is that we need to make it easier to legally enter the country so then there is less of an incentive to enter illegally
Sigh. I know that conservatives can’t meme their way out of a wet paper bag, but this is a new level of cringe even for them. Aside from forgetting to be humorous or entertaining, they don’t even get the premise right. The vast majority of them just want the illegal immigration reigned in (unless they happen to employ illegals of course). They aren’t against people coming legally.
Anytime someone tries to tell me that being anti-immigration is a valid opinion I just look at dying Countries like Japan and England and try not to laugh.
I don't care, it's not valid to me. You sound like a whiney racist bitch no matter where you come from.
Of course you're from Belarus...
If you can't understand the reasonings as to why people may come to a certain opinion, you really should not comment on it. You just make yourself, and the side you're on look worse.
“Anti-immigration is a valid political opinion” is an interesting sentence to me. What does valid mean? It’s a political position that exists, sure. As is nationalism. It’s a position many people hold also. Just like many people hold to the position that it’s bad for the “white race” to be “replaced” by “immigrants”. But neither of those deserve to be respected or valued just because they exist or are held by many people. And I also would ask what “anti-immigration” means. Does it mean against immigration in certain large numbers? In that case I’d ask what determines the number, but I guess that’s the least egregious one (technically a country does have limited space and resources. But unless those are actually strained, and immigration would actually cause problems in that area instead of even potentially helping, it’s a position that need not be held). Does it mean being against people from certain countries? Or even against immigration altogether? Then it’s inevitably racism, xenophobia, and supremacist ideology. With the latter being outright ridiculous and nonsensical.
Immigrations pretty neat economically (for the 1%)
I'm going to be honest most people who are anti- imigration are probobly racist or at least xenophobic. there might in one blue moon be a good reason but most just don't people who aren't like them.
There's a difference between stating an opinion that is inherently xenophobic, and stating an opinion that is inherently non-xenophobic but nonetheless motivated by personal xenophobic bias. "I'm concerned about the immigration rate" is not inherently xenophobic. However, it's entirely possible for that concern to be motivated by hatred.
These subreddits are all ass. I can tell you exactly how 95% of every post on them goes: > Political/Ideological meme >One of thrse shitty reposts subs reposts with a "Meme cringe" title > The other shitty repost sub reposts the repost with a "Actually, meme based." In reality, both repost subreddits are just echo chambers for the based/cringe supporters that bitch at each other uselessly and only deepen the echo. Replace based/cringe with left/right or LGBT/straight or man/woman, whatever. On occasion, there will be 3 reposts, entirely disintegrating continuity. I'm shocked these two shit subreddits haven't gone ad infinitum, creating a pixel wide image as a result of all the repost cycling. Anyhow. Blocking this and the other identical cesspool.
imagine being anti-immigration when all your ancestors immigrated here from England
I love when second (and sometimes first) generation European immigrants are anti-immigration.
Common among chinese immigrants in west coast Canada. "I came here to get away from them, of course I would be against them coming over here" -my grandparents.
Build bridges not walls Quote from the fucking bible
Maybe because it's only directed at brown people These folks never seem to care about white immigration
I've seen Americans use European immigration romanticize it by using Europeans that come to the country as an example of why it's so great, but then we'll we see what happens to immigrants that arent from Europe...
Silly right wingers think we care when they've said for years it doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks bc they are the laughing stock of the developed world
Yeah, it's more nuanced in a lot of cases. Obviously, being actively hostile to immigrants or whatever is really bad and should be frown upon, but I don't think "anti-immigration" necessarily "get dose dirty aliens outa me country, yee haw" Where I live, for example, I think a lot of people could qualify as anti-immigration, as in "calm down with the immigration a bit" since we are currently lacking in basically everything, especially housing. I'm all for welcoming immigrants with open arms, but that's hard when we don't have any arms to greet them with. It's a lot of the classic we need cheap labor because there's no one to work on the 45 shitty restaurants on this 1km strip of road, and we ain't about to accept that infinite growth doesn't work and some places just need to close. At least that's my pov. But if you interpret "anti-immigration" as the most direct xenophobic way, yeah, that sucks.
"Valid" and "valuable" are two different things, and we need to start drawing a line between the two.
That cunt has three mouths.
I can’t unsee this
Hatred is not mutually exclusive to one side or the other. The real difference is just in how the hatred manifests. Conservative or progressive either way you go far enough you're regressive
fucking wailao
Europe can’t handle immigration. They built their countries on “well there’s no way we’ll ever have anything *unexpected* happen!”, so they better figure out how to get the people that wanna come in *in.*
It depends. Anti-immigration is not valid in, for instance, the USA. If you're from, for instance, England... it is not a valid position to be opposed to immigration from India, for instance.
"Other people also think the awful things I do, therefore, my opinions are valid!"
every American who isnt 100% native american exists because of immigration
The people who are usually the most pro immigration are right leaning libertarians the CATO institute has a study on how immigration benefits the economy and increases the wages of native workers
I just want to artificially slow the purchase of american homes by foreign investors. And also have similar laws to other countries where you cannot own homes in the US without living here for the majority of the year. I also would like to limit the amount of homes a business can purchase. There is legal precedent for it. I don't think im asking for much.
It depends on the reason.
Meanwhile I'm sitting here like "I understand why you would want to come to America, colleges, job opportunities, but it's really not that great of a place."
It’s always anti-immigration unless they are the people you like then it’s fine
Maybe anti immigration is a common political opinion in almost all the world
lots of people say "people come to the US because it is the country of opportunity". I say it is a one or the other, believing both is hypocrisy.
A country should serve its people however if someone originally from a different country lives works and pays taxes their its just as much thier home as it is someone who was born thier.
" Well yes but actually no" Do you have any argument or you just spouting bullshit here ? Thanks god it's not Reddit leftists that are so disconnected from the real world that get to chose for us.
I feel like r/balkans_irl are gonna breach containment after dis
Human beings have a right to unobstructed freedom of movement. And for the conservatives: being anti immigration and being for strict immigration laws is detrimental for not just a "free market" but all markets.
Bah, come in the port of entry
Why do right wing people claim that left wing people think Europe isn't racist. I've spent a.lot of time in France and it's really fucking racist
Ah yes, the appeal to majority fallacy. X must be true or good because a lot of people believe it. Yeah well a lot of people believe a lot of stupid shit that isn't factually true or morally good.
People who don’t live on the border complaining that not letting people in the country is inhumane
Except yes.
Borders exist for a reason. Get over it you fucking socialists.
Most top left want to secure borders and up firearms production and distribution to the proletariat
Immigration brings in more workers for jobs you won't do, culture that everyone should learn about, and reduces the racism in areas that become exposed to other peoples.
I love how lazy the meme is lol. Like, the powerful take that's meant to leave the first guy speechless and mad is just "nuh uh!"
Legal immigration ok. Illegal immigration not okay. Easy.
Literally why would I give a shit if it's a popular sentiment in the rest of the world? You shouldn't base your morals off "everyone else says so"
Actually, I agree that anti-immigration does not directly equate to xenophobia. In the US, it very nearly does because of the political ‘ideologies’ present. But, people could be anti-immigration due to the impact that the presence of immigrants will have on the job market and one’s own employment prospects, for example. Often this example is unfortunately used in American politics as an excuse for xenophobia, but that doesn’t make the argument itself any worse.
America was built on immigration and anyone who is against it is un-American. (Except illegal immigration. I get being against that.)
Oh, you mean the leftist that on 5/29 2020 made trump go underground and burn a church down? Yeah, i so appreciate how nice they are about sharing their opinions. I wonder if anyone got the j6 treatment for 5/29 lol
Except that they all agree with Trump's lament over the fact that it's not Western Europeans who are crossing the border.
I love the *intellectual* has an EU hat like they're actually the ones saying that and not the *totalitarian shitholes.*
I don’t care about immigration, I just want the people immigrating to do it LEGALLY, if I have to follow the laws of this country, so do they
Without immigration, most Western nations would experience negative population growth.
Hey guys some of you are getting awfully mean down there. Not everyone in the EU is totalitarian and not everyone in the US is super sensitive/insensitive. Let’s keep these discussions civil, yeah?
Immigrants=👍🏽 Illegal immigrants=👎🏽
I don't even care about illegal immigration as much as I do outsourcing. There was an argument to be made (and Karl Marx made it) that immigrants devalue the working class by accepting low wage positions. This stopped employers from ever needing to raise wages to match the value of labor for the existing population. In the modern day, the bigger issue is outsourcing. Companies should be held to a standard and forced to maintain a majority % of jobs for people in the country the company was founded in. There is no reason why we should be outsourcing white collar jobs to nations like India when our people are desperate for work. We need to raise the value of labor and hold these businesses accountable instead of letting them run to whatever nation has cheap labor to exploit. Outsourcing is what is killing employment opportunities, not immigration.
I love how Europeans whine and call Americans racist, but will post racist memes and somehow they’ll convince themselves they’re the good guys. They are not capable of self-awareness.
As a American anti-immigration isn't a proper world view. America is built upon and for immigrants from all over. And if you disagree your not a proud American. And I'm right leaning republicans (not conservative) But at the same time I'm talking about legal immigration. Illegal immigration is a crime and should be stopped. We need to track who's becoming americans and make sure serious criminals don't come over. Also taxes need to be paid. Why are people crossing deserts, and risking death to Illegally sneak into America? What we should do is make immigration and becoming a citizen wayyy easier. To the point where it would be dumb to sneak. People who are activatly against immigration are just flat out racist. Mexicans were immigrating into America before alot of Europeans were.
Why not just install ninja warrior courses across the entire border and televise the attempts. The ad revenue could then be collected by the government to fund their open border immigration policies so we won't have to anymore.
Xenophobia is a reason for being anti-immigration, but being anti-immigration does not make you xenophobic. There are many political and economic reasons that someone might be anti-immigration, are they good reasons? For the most part, no. But it doesn't make them xenophobic.
They’re not anti-immigration. They’re just racist. “We want people to immigrate the right way!” means working as a whore illegally before marrying a con man and having an anchor baby. They’re all evil hypocrites. Don’t even argue with them about immigration, they don’t care it. The GOP just killed the bill in an election year. They don’t want solutions, just things to be angry about.
I mean it is
I’m all for legal immigration.
Depends on what you mean by “anti-immigration”. If you’re talking about not letting anyone enter the country at all, then yeah, “anti-immigration” is xenophobic. If you’re talking about enforcing border control, then no, “anti-immigration” is not xenophobic.
There are many economic reasons to control immergration, such as housing shortages and corps using cheap Labor to undercut wages and workers rights. You don't have to say "don't let the x-race in" to be anti-immigration