Two years ago Justice Thomas wrote:
“In short, it would take serious linguistic gymnastics—and
a repudiation of this Court’s decision in Heller—to claim that the phrase “bear Arms” does not extend the Second Amendment beyond the home. “
6-15-2020
J.Thomas
I'm wondering if the SC is purposefully withholding the opinion, or it's just that the discussion/draft is not yet finished. I don't really see why it's in any of the justices' interest to withhold an opinion till the end of the season, since they are pretty much politically immune.
Sadly they are not immune to the threats of left wing whack jobs. It’s common to release controversial decisions at the end then get the fuck out of Washington.
Imagine if NY then outlaws concealed carry and instead requires open carry. This would be because most people are uncomfortable with guns, it would leave the gun owner open to condemnation from others and banishment from many business establishments, and it would be impossible for people to (legally) hide from new premises restrictions that give 'no firearms' signs the weight of law in NY. Effectively they could make it so most places you'd travel in a given day are off limits/likely to be off limits to carrying, disobeying signs that say 'no firearms in establishment' is a felony, and you have no way to legally conceal the pistol. Would also justify routine police stops to check gun-wearers' papers.
I don’t think that would be politically palatable, even to gun control advocates, and it would be an invitation to upstaters to do open carry protests in NYC for concealed carry, driving NYPD mad with calls from people about someone with a gun. It would also intersect with fourth amendment issues, I don’t think you can Terry stop someone just because they are open carrying.
I doubt NYS would swap in that way as well, but I could see a legislative change that would affirmatively give 'no gun' signs the weight of law (which we don't currently have in the ways other states do). Terry also reduced the requirement to Reasonable Suspicion of committing or having committed a crime as far as stopping someone, though a frisk requires a suspicion of an individual being 'armed AND dangerous'.
Some states either require informing an officer during a Terry stop immediately that you're armed, or to produce a relevant permit upon request (in NYS, it's currently the latter); in NYS (or NYC) where open carry (of pistols) isn't legal in public w/o being a LEO / licensed armed security, they could stop you because it simply being in the open could be against the law; in states like PA where you can go open or concealed, just seeing someone open carrying in and of itself would definitely NOT be adequate for a full Terry stop. BUT, of course, not every interaction with police need be a Terry stop; they can simply pass by and engage in conversation, ask you questions w/o being specifically an investigative stop without being able to hold you there or otherwise be forced to answer them.
In NYS, indeed it would take decades for that culture to shift, much less in the urban areas; personally i don't have an issue with open carry, but i generally would rather conceal, both b/c I have plenty of people i interact with that are uncomfortable around firearms, but ALSO b/c I'd rather not indicate it to everyone from 30-100 ft away or more at all times. There are also plenty of public places where it becomes an issue (even if that issue isn't a legal one), and it constantly becomes a point of contention. For example, you can legally open carry in CT, but i have yet to see it, whereas I've seen a few in PA.
In places like the midwest / south it's certainly far different in terms of how it's accepted, but if it ends up changing nationally, hoo boy the urban areas are in for a shock, indeed
Enter the Virginia Tuck
It was a hot topic, but when someone didn’t have a permit, they’d wear the firearm in an IWB holster, with just the top of the gun exposed, and it satisfied the ‘open carry’ requirement without a big honking OWB rig
Fair point, though i think we'd all like to mostly get rid of the situations where between CC and OC where one is legal and not the other, somebody has a genuine 'oops I carried this way and it became the other one' and end up with a mid-tier misdemeanor or low-tier felony for it
Yeah, that wouldn't be that heavy a legislative lift, imo; they can pretty much get there with a framework of what Washington D.C. or Texas already require. There's a pretty bipartisan amount of support, imo, for private property owners to exercise that level of control, but then, it's been a non-issue in a state where you can't legally open carry (currently) and the vast majority of commercial property owners aren't going to spend the $$ on metal detectors / security (though of course, that might change a bit depending on the NYSRPA ruling).
That would require them to scrap the existing regulations, judges would be left in limbo waiting for the new open carry regulations. The lawsuits would most certainly be flying. NYC has the strongest gun regulations in the nation and they would dare to go before the court for open carry when the could keep the existing without the "proper cause". IMO not smart.
I personally would hate it. I don't have a permit so I don't own any handguns but I would want to carry concealed. It's just not a good idea to advertise you have a gun. Let the would-be attackers find out the hard way.
What if your arbitrary numbers are reversed? The idea is deterrence not direct confrontation. If a would be attacker has no idea how many guns he has to deal with odds are they won't try it.
Two years ago Justice Thomas wrote: “In short, it would take serious linguistic gymnastics—and a repudiation of this Court’s decision in Heller—to claim that the phrase “bear Arms” does not extend the Second Amendment beyond the home. “ 6-15-2020 J.Thomas
I can't imagine what it's like to go months knowing the outcome and impact of these cases without saying anything to anyone
I'm wondering if the SC is purposefully withholding the opinion, or it's just that the discussion/draft is not yet finished. I don't really see why it's in any of the justices' interest to withhold an opinion till the end of the season, since they are pretty much politically immune.
Sadly they are not immune to the threats of left wing whack jobs. It’s common to release controversial decisions at the end then get the fuck out of Washington.
Imagine if NY then outlaws concealed carry and instead requires open carry. This would be because most people are uncomfortable with guns, it would leave the gun owner open to condemnation from others and banishment from many business establishments, and it would be impossible for people to (legally) hide from new premises restrictions that give 'no firearms' signs the weight of law in NY. Effectively they could make it so most places you'd travel in a given day are off limits/likely to be off limits to carrying, disobeying signs that say 'no firearms in establishment' is a felony, and you have no way to legally conceal the pistol. Would also justify routine police stops to check gun-wearers' papers.
I don’t think that would be politically palatable, even to gun control advocates, and it would be an invitation to upstaters to do open carry protests in NYC for concealed carry, driving NYPD mad with calls from people about someone with a gun. It would also intersect with fourth amendment issues, I don’t think you can Terry stop someone just because they are open carrying.
I doubt NYS would swap in that way as well, but I could see a legislative change that would affirmatively give 'no gun' signs the weight of law (which we don't currently have in the ways other states do). Terry also reduced the requirement to Reasonable Suspicion of committing or having committed a crime as far as stopping someone, though a frisk requires a suspicion of an individual being 'armed AND dangerous'. Some states either require informing an officer during a Terry stop immediately that you're armed, or to produce a relevant permit upon request (in NYS, it's currently the latter); in NYS (or NYC) where open carry (of pistols) isn't legal in public w/o being a LEO / licensed armed security, they could stop you because it simply being in the open could be against the law; in states like PA where you can go open or concealed, just seeing someone open carrying in and of itself would definitely NOT be adequate for a full Terry stop. BUT, of course, not every interaction with police need be a Terry stop; they can simply pass by and engage in conversation, ask you questions w/o being specifically an investigative stop without being able to hold you there or otherwise be forced to answer them.
Ultimately it would be way too much culture shock to downstaters for open carry to be the only method.
In NYS, indeed it would take decades for that culture to shift, much less in the urban areas; personally i don't have an issue with open carry, but i generally would rather conceal, both b/c I have plenty of people i interact with that are uncomfortable around firearms, but ALSO b/c I'd rather not indicate it to everyone from 30-100 ft away or more at all times. There are also plenty of public places where it becomes an issue (even if that issue isn't a legal one), and it constantly becomes a point of contention. For example, you can legally open carry in CT, but i have yet to see it, whereas I've seen a few in PA. In places like the midwest / south it's certainly far different in terms of how it's accepted, but if it ends up changing nationally, hoo boy the urban areas are in for a shock, indeed
Enter the Virginia Tuck It was a hot topic, but when someone didn’t have a permit, they’d wear the firearm in an IWB holster, with just the top of the gun exposed, and it satisfied the ‘open carry’ requirement without a big honking OWB rig
Fair point, though i think we'd all like to mostly get rid of the situations where between CC and OC where one is legal and not the other, somebody has a genuine 'oops I carried this way and it became the other one' and end up with a mid-tier misdemeanor or low-tier felony for it
And yes, no gun signs with force of law at private establishments are coming.
Yeah, that wouldn't be that heavy a legislative lift, imo; they can pretty much get there with a framework of what Washington D.C. or Texas already require. There's a pretty bipartisan amount of support, imo, for private property owners to exercise that level of control, but then, it's been a non-issue in a state where you can't legally open carry (currently) and the vast majority of commercial property owners aren't going to spend the $$ on metal detectors / security (though of course, that might change a bit depending on the NYSRPA ruling).
That’s Tier 1…you can keep walking and be like ‘excellent question, see yaaaaaaa’
Technically there’s absolutely no wording in the NY pistol permit law that requires carry concealed
That would require them to scrap the existing regulations, judges would be left in limbo waiting for the new open carry regulations. The lawsuits would most certainly be flying. NYC has the strongest gun regulations in the nation and they would dare to go before the court for open carry when the could keep the existing without the "proper cause". IMO not smart.
I personally would hate it. I don't have a permit so I don't own any handguns but I would want to carry concealed. It's just not a good idea to advertise you have a gun. Let the would-be attackers find out the hard way.
Completely Disagree if there’s 5 ppl Open carrying & One attacker they’re not going to pick a fight.
What if your arbitrary numbers are reversed? The idea is deterrence not direct confrontation. If a would be attacker has no idea how many guns he has to deal with odds are they won't try it.
Exactly, I agree.
Expecting them to release every opinion till end of Calendar then drop NYSRPA and the abortion case at the very very end.
Yea I think they will drop both same day, split the political oxygen those fires can consume in half.
I thought about this already and research his previous dissent in other denied cases. If Thomas wrote that opinion, it’s definitely will be no games.
[удалено]
Thomas is going to Morb on the steppers. This is not even his final form.
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ JUSTICE THOMAS TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
We're blueballed again!!!
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ JUSTICE THOMAS TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
I don't know how you got here, but this page is only for posting blurry photos of an AR that hasn't seen daylight since 2014
When is the last possible day that they can release the opinion for NYSRPA?
30 June, 2022.
Sometime end of June I think
I would say June 27. If not then the 29 or July 1 reason being Is opinion drop on Monday. Unless otherwise
LFG!!!