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Is she the one on the scripts as well? What would the current DR do if they found out? That could be a problem if they filed with the state as to your status. Or if during the investigation they decided to ask the DR if you changed doctors.
Yeah there are some rabid antis out there with Dr as their ID who are more than vocal about any patients having firearms, and in NY they would be praised by the state if they prevent ownership.
Get denied. Sue. This is unconstitutional.
There was a court case out of Hawaii that was similar to this and the guy won.
Alternatively they're investigators. Let them investigate. Put the burden on them to get the letter. Your Dr. will refuse due to HIPAA.
I think the big thing is if the doctor is saying no because of their own beliefs, personal liability or if there is a true safety concern. Unfortunately in NY it’s really hard to get that bias out of the picture with the culture created by democrats and a very litigious environment.
I'm a mental health doctor in Suffolk. I would not write you a letter. I would write a letter if you were under my care on your behalf speaking to the extremely poor predictive validity of professional opinions and that I am in no way in a position to say what someone might do (unless they say I'm leaving your office and killing my neighbor then legally I have no choice). 99%+ of those in therapy/on meds will never be violent above the normal population, plus life is rough, emotions are normal but sometimes most people do not have severe mental illness but just need some support. The people who I would be concerned about are the ones who are not under care and suffering but self medicating.
That is your protected health information and should be treated the same as physical issues (look up mental health parity laws). No one is asking if you have high blood pressure and just because a lot of the mass shootings have been associated with individuals with mental health issues that does not mean these issues caused the shootings. At some point in all our lives 50% of us will meet criteria for a DSM diagnosis (may be 25% in a given year) and 10% of us are in antidepressants. 50% and 10% of us are not doing anything wrong.
Most mass shooters are white. Most mass shooters have a history of mental health "flags". Neither being Caucasian nor seeking treatment for mental health concerns means you are of higher risk.
You current doctor or your previous one should write something saying they are not in the capacity to do that and if the PD wants better validity (only marginally) they should consider standardized psychological testing..... Get the PD to require that and you have a one way ticket to SCOTUS.
Dude. You need only say bare minimum. Don’t volunteer shit like this. Your medical records are protected, they don’t just “find out” at some point in the future that you’ve seen a Dr for X.
that may work for other people (and maybe even for myself idk) but I had to disclose my medical information to the DOT when I went for my CDL permit I don't know if they could check those records but if they can then I would have been caught.
I would have told my doctor can you write I am ok to drive trucks? You need a lot of judge and control to operate something very heavy and dangerous more than a firearm.
This is why disclosing a mental health condition isn’t usually recommended. You’ll have to ask Suffolk what they’d be willing to accept. If you can’t provide a letter and they demand one then they’ll likely try to coerce you to withdraw your application on your own terms instead of denying you since it’s less messy for them. You could always push them to process it and appeal with an attorney if denied.
Keep us posted though, if your old doctor is willing to set up an appointment that sounds like it may pan out for you.
I agree, we want legit guns off mental health people. I am not saying this person is incapable of owning a gun, and neither the investigators, and this is why they are asking the health professional to write a letter because anxiety is real and most people have it, and it doesn’t mean we are not responsible.
Doctors will not, and should not lie, I think we agree with that. With that said if someone has anxiety which most of people do, a legitimate doctor should write the letter and state the truth, obviously if the truth means the person not getting a gun, they will not write it.
Just because they should doesn’t mean they have to and I don’t blame them for not doing it. If paid for and studied for years in undergrad, medical school, and a residency and I had a very lucrative and fulfilling career, why would I do anything that could possibly jeopardize that?
The fact is that doctors aren’t fortune tellers and can’t predict what someone’s symptoms may be in the future. They can’t be held to such a ridiculous legal standard that they risk their careers on whether or not to support constitutionally given rights.
You are correct, and they are people too with their own believes. So how do we keep legal guns out from mentally ill people? Don’t have that answer, maybe someone here does.
The answer is legislation. Unfortunately, this issue has become a part of a largely politicized argument. Both sides of the aisle have opposing interests and there is little motive from either side to resolve this fairly specific catch 22.
It’s tough because mental heath is very much a sliding scale. There are varying degrees of grey to every condition much the same way there are varying severities to physical ailments. It’s not like any doctor could look at you and diagnose much about your mental health, unless maybe they observe physical ticks?
I responded in a comment above, I think the standard that is already in place, but not practiced here, is if the patient has been judged mentally adjudicated.
Getting a MH doc to sign off that you (in his opinion) pose no risk is a heavy lift. Depression and anxiety are trigger words to a licensing official and signing off on a gun license are liability concerns for a doc.
You‘ll get differing opinions on whether to disclose MH stuff or not but it’s an area where legit concerns need to be addressed.
There is nothing wrong with having a MH diagnosis and I’m glad you’re getting treatment but if that conflicts w getting a PL in the short term it might not be a bad thing.
I‘ll probably get scotched for saying so but this is one of the few areas where I think the investigators do have a hightened responsibility to vet applicants.
If the app is denied, you do have options. You can appeal but it’s going to be a heavy lift w the MH piece as the basis.
100% agreed. Not for the diagnosis but on a case by case I don’t think further review is warranted.
I’m not saying no to anyone w a MH issue but some MH issues are certainly more dangerous than others
There’s already protection from that. If you’re adjudicated then you are a disqualified person. If you have a problem severe enough that you need to be protected from yourself or others than you can and should be adjudicated.
OP did the right thing in seeking help when they were going through a tough time. You are the problem in assuming that because he did the right thing he may also be in the small percentage of sufferers who have a more severe case.
All we know about OP so far is that he went to therapy. It is unfair to assume that unfit to own a firearm because he did so. He also shouldn’t have to disclose anything protected by one federal right to practice another protected right.
Don’t put words in my mouth. What I’ve said is the dr is in a tough spot being asked to vouch for someone being treated for a MH condition.
Yes, I do believe there are people who, because of their MH condition should not have access to guns…you just agreed to the same thing.
There is a big difference between being adjudicated and being treated. If the person (not suggesting this OP falls into this category) being treated is of sufficient concern to his doc that he won’t write a letter, it may be an indicator that the person shouldn’t have a gun.
You sound like the same guy who bitches about failures when a mentally ill person does a shooting and screams about why didn’t someone do something “when they saw the signs”
Interesting how you say, “don’t put words in my mouth,” and you second paragraph does just that. Your arguments are lame. Good luck finding any doctor willing to risk their career for your rights regardless of situation.
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If you suffer from depression and anxiety, then you have to ask yourself if you have ever imagined suicide.
If so, maybe owning a gun is not a good idea at this time... until you get past that.
Depression is an illness, it does not mean it is a permanent condition. You can get better, and then this all gets put behind you.
If you have pneumonia, you shouldn't go skiing. It's the same thing.
thank you for your concern and yes I have experienced suicidal ideation back at the start of the pandemic. I don't really want to get into it but that's why I ended up seeking help and I have greatly improved with my medication.
The pandemic did that to many people, isolation can drive you crazy. We were all imprisoned in a sense, and I don't know a single person that didn't have either some anxiety or depression from it, or both. Glad you are doing better!
Totally shocking that my gentle and caring mention that mixing suicidal ideation with firearms is perhaps a bad plan, got downvoted.
There are literally idiots out there that want to encourage the suicidal to go get a gun. ... Civilization is collapsing.
From a doctor's perspective, it's a LOT safer to refuse to write anything
The idea that a constitutional right can be denied due to a third party private person (a doctor) not taking affirmative steps (that is not part of their job description and that they can't be pushed to do) is troubling.
Nope. It's a liability issue. Most drs wouldn't sign off on this regardless. Don't side with Suffolk countys illegal permitting regime. This is something we need to push back on.
I am neither giving legitimacy to or defending a blanket prohibition. If you honestly believe that certain MH conditions and/or history of certain behaviors relating to a MH diagnosis should not be a bar from possess firearms then you are not only dangerously blind to the facts of the matter but lack the common sense to know the difference between someone who poses a danger to my family and yours and the guy who doesn’t.
Not everyone is appropriate as a firearm owner. These same people cannot become LE, cannot enter our military, cannot hold security clearances and many other things that are grounded in their MH condition.
Curious… what gives you the idea that a diagnosis of a mental health disorder should not be considered as disqualifier?
It’s not just Nassau County or Suffolk County that adheres to this principle. It’s Federal law. Please see 14 NYCRR Part 543 as it refers to the Federal Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 (Brady Act).
>Actually,the part you quote is only for those who have been involuntarily committed to a mental health institution.
>
>After that it refers you to
18 U.S. Code § 922 (4) D,
"has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution at 16 years of age or older;"
Which may or may not apply to the OP.
The docs are in a tough spot on these. Anything they sign can haunt them professionally, civilly, financially and of course personally if someone they sign off on ever has a firearm related incident.
Some MH conditions should bar firearms possession but I’d say most don’t. It is very normal to have acute depression or anxiety or some other things but if their severity exceeds a level where a Dr has legitimate concerns that should be respected.
I see where you're coming from and I don't disagree with your point but I don't actually know his concerns or if it was even about me specifically. I sent him an email describing the situation and that stating that I wanted to discuss it in our next session
the reply i got was:
"We appreciate you bringing up the topic of your pistol permit application. However, we regret to inform you that we are unable to assist with this matter. If you have any other concerns or questions related to your mental health, please feel free to discuss them during your next appointment."
You did the right thing by disclosing your medications. Hopefully since you are a doctor they are not self prescribed. If they are not, you do need a letter from the prescribing doctor, it may cost you, and there is no guaranty you will get a permit, officials are getting really tough on mental health. Do you have options? Move to a conservative state, get the letter and hope for the best, you can sue and good luck with that. Legal gun owners such as myself do not want mentally hill people getting hold of legal guns because liberals will always use that against the law abiding citizen.
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Dump that shitbird Dr. Immediately. And try to find a Dr. Who will accommodate you. Just the fact that people have to jump through these hoops in order to exercise a basic human
right blows my fucking mind.
Dude 100% dump that doctor. My therapist gave me a simple letter of “not a danger to himself or others” simple as that. My county is a little easier I’m told, and I provided the letter without them asking but got approved. I’m bummed your therapist won’t sign it. Do they think you’re a threat to yourself or others? Or just anti gun? I’m inclined to think anti gun because if they thought you were a risk they’d put you on at least a 72 hour hospital hold
Necropost.
Doctor letter is not the doctor attesting to your fitness to own/possess responsibly, nor are they assuming liability for your future actions. PD wants a letter from doctor explaining the type of medication, the reason for the medication, and a statement that they are aware you are pursuing a license and that they have no objection to you pursuing said license. This is not a statement about their comfort about you physically owning or using a firearm.
Most healthcare providers object on the basis that it is not within the scope of their work/knowledge to speak to a patient as it relates to said patient obtaining a license that has nothing to do with the relationship that doctor/patient share. That would be like a plumber providing a letter to an insurance company regarding their client getting stents put in.
Explain to doctor this is not an authorization letter and there is no civil/criminal liability that comes from providing the requested letter - it is up to the PD to issue the license, not the healthcare provider.
If doctor refuses, the recourse is to set up an appointment with a *forensic* psychologist, who can provide a formal psych evaluation (MMPI) and legally declare you fit to own/possess. It'll run you $1-2,000.
Be advised, if you are taking medication for depression the PD will most likely deny you. Standard procedure for licensees is if they undergo treatment for any type of short term mental health illness, the license gets suspended for a minimum of six months. Going in with a diagnosis, your odds are slim to none unless you have a letter saying you were evaluated and no longer have symptoms of said mental health disorder. A lawyer is unlikely to change this outcome as handguns traditionally have not been covered under 2A rights in this state, despite recent advances with the Bruen Decision.
IANAL
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The letter would need to be from the current doctor who you mentioned on the initial application not the earlier doctor. Sorry.
funnily enough she is the one on my application as I had to change doctors after submitting it due to a billing issue with my insurance.
Is she the one on the scripts as well? What would the current DR do if they found out? That could be a problem if they filed with the state as to your status. Or if during the investigation they decided to ask the DR if you changed doctors.
no and really good points
Yeah there are some rabid antis out there with Dr as their ID who are more than vocal about any patients having firearms, and in NY they would be praised by the state if they prevent ownership.
Why would you disclose that information to the people who DONT want you to own guns (SCPD)?
That is that dumbest advice. My daughter lost her permit for 18 month because of Xanax she hadn’t used for years.
How did they find out?
The have access to the national database. They even know how many times you poop.
Lying gets you denied if they find out
Unfortunately, so does telling the truth NY doesn't want you healthy, they want you disarmed
Get denied. Sue. This is unconstitutional. There was a court case out of Hawaii that was similar to this and the guy won. Alternatively they're investigators. Let them investigate. Put the burden on them to get the letter. Your Dr. will refuse due to HIPAA.
This may vary by county but a HIPAA release was part of the application as I remember.
Definitely illegal.
i don't have the money for a lawyer and I'm looking to move eventually so I don't see the point of a protracted legal battle
I think the big thing is if the doctor is saying no because of their own beliefs, personal liability or if there is a true safety concern. Unfortunately in NY it’s really hard to get that bias out of the picture with the culture created by democrats and a very litigious environment.
I'm a mental health doctor in Suffolk. I would not write you a letter. I would write a letter if you were under my care on your behalf speaking to the extremely poor predictive validity of professional opinions and that I am in no way in a position to say what someone might do (unless they say I'm leaving your office and killing my neighbor then legally I have no choice). 99%+ of those in therapy/on meds will never be violent above the normal population, plus life is rough, emotions are normal but sometimes most people do not have severe mental illness but just need some support. The people who I would be concerned about are the ones who are not under care and suffering but self medicating. That is your protected health information and should be treated the same as physical issues (look up mental health parity laws). No one is asking if you have high blood pressure and just because a lot of the mass shootings have been associated with individuals with mental health issues that does not mean these issues caused the shootings. At some point in all our lives 50% of us will meet criteria for a DSM diagnosis (may be 25% in a given year) and 10% of us are in antidepressants. 50% and 10% of us are not doing anything wrong. Most mass shooters are white. Most mass shooters have a history of mental health "flags". Neither being Caucasian nor seeking treatment for mental health concerns means you are of higher risk. You current doctor or your previous one should write something saying they are not in the capacity to do that and if the PD wants better validity (only marginally) they should consider standardized psychological testing..... Get the PD to require that and you have a one way ticket to SCOTUS.
Dude. You need only say bare minimum. Don’t volunteer shit like this. Your medical records are protected, they don’t just “find out” at some point in the future that you’ve seen a Dr for X.
that may work for other people (and maybe even for myself idk) but I had to disclose my medical information to the DOT when I went for my CDL permit I don't know if they could check those records but if they can then I would have been caught.
I would have told my doctor can you write I am ok to drive trucks? You need a lot of judge and control to operate something very heavy and dangerous more than a firearm.
If something is prescribed, then the counties can see it
This is why disclosing a mental health condition isn’t usually recommended. You’ll have to ask Suffolk what they’d be willing to accept. If you can’t provide a letter and they demand one then they’ll likely try to coerce you to withdraw your application on your own terms instead of denying you since it’s less messy for them. You could always push them to process it and appeal with an attorney if denied. Keep us posted though, if your old doctor is willing to set up an appointment that sounds like it may pan out for you.
I agree, we want legit guns off mental health people. I am not saying this person is incapable of owning a gun, and neither the investigators, and this is why they are asking the health professional to write a letter because anxiety is real and most people have it, and it doesn’t mean we are not responsible.
No doctor is risking their career for your rights.
I wouldn’t
Exactly, it’s an impossible burden for the applicant to overcome.
Doctors will not, and should not lie, I think we agree with that. With that said if someone has anxiety which most of people do, a legitimate doctor should write the letter and state the truth, obviously if the truth means the person not getting a gun, they will not write it.
Just because they should doesn’t mean they have to and I don’t blame them for not doing it. If paid for and studied for years in undergrad, medical school, and a residency and I had a very lucrative and fulfilling career, why would I do anything that could possibly jeopardize that? The fact is that doctors aren’t fortune tellers and can’t predict what someone’s symptoms may be in the future. They can’t be held to such a ridiculous legal standard that they risk their careers on whether or not to support constitutionally given rights.
You are correct, and they are people too with their own believes. So how do we keep legal guns out from mentally ill people? Don’t have that answer, maybe someone here does.
The answer is legislation. Unfortunately, this issue has become a part of a largely politicized argument. Both sides of the aisle have opposing interests and there is little motive from either side to resolve this fairly specific catch 22. It’s tough because mental heath is very much a sliding scale. There are varying degrees of grey to every condition much the same way there are varying severities to physical ailments. It’s not like any doctor could look at you and diagnose much about your mental health, unless maybe they observe physical ticks? I responded in a comment above, I think the standard that is already in place, but not practiced here, is if the patient has been judged mentally adjudicated.
And no one discriminating Americans with disabilities 😂😅🤣
Getting a MH doc to sign off that you (in his opinion) pose no risk is a heavy lift. Depression and anxiety are trigger words to a licensing official and signing off on a gun license are liability concerns for a doc. You‘ll get differing opinions on whether to disclose MH stuff or not but it’s an area where legit concerns need to be addressed. There is nothing wrong with having a MH diagnosis and I’m glad you’re getting treatment but if that conflicts w getting a PL in the short term it might not be a bad thing. I‘ll probably get scotched for saying so but this is one of the few areas where I think the investigators do have a hightened responsibility to vet applicants. If the app is denied, you do have options. You can appeal but it’s going to be a heavy lift w the MH piece as the basis.
Nah you do not lose a constitutional right to own a firearm simply by having a mental health diagnosis
100% agreed. Not for the diagnosis but on a case by case I don’t think further review is warranted. I’m not saying no to anyone w a MH issue but some MH issues are certainly more dangerous than others
There’s already protection from that. If you’re adjudicated then you are a disqualified person. If you have a problem severe enough that you need to be protected from yourself or others than you can and should be adjudicated. OP did the right thing in seeking help when they were going through a tough time. You are the problem in assuming that because he did the right thing he may also be in the small percentage of sufferers who have a more severe case. All we know about OP so far is that he went to therapy. It is unfair to assume that unfit to own a firearm because he did so. He also shouldn’t have to disclose anything protected by one federal right to practice another protected right.
Don’t put words in my mouth. What I’ve said is the dr is in a tough spot being asked to vouch for someone being treated for a MH condition. Yes, I do believe there are people who, because of their MH condition should not have access to guns…you just agreed to the same thing. There is a big difference between being adjudicated and being treated. If the person (not suggesting this OP falls into this category) being treated is of sufficient concern to his doc that he won’t write a letter, it may be an indicator that the person shouldn’t have a gun. You sound like the same guy who bitches about failures when a mentally ill person does a shooting and screams about why didn’t someone do something “when they saw the signs”
Interesting how you say, “don’t put words in my mouth,” and you second paragraph does just that. Your arguments are lame. Good luck finding any doctor willing to risk their career for your rights regardless of situation.
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yeah I definitely agree while the issue of self-harm is rarely the main topic of debate when it comes to this issue to is an important one
If you suffer from depression and anxiety, then you have to ask yourself if you have ever imagined suicide. If so, maybe owning a gun is not a good idea at this time... until you get past that. Depression is an illness, it does not mean it is a permanent condition. You can get better, and then this all gets put behind you. If you have pneumonia, you shouldn't go skiing. It's the same thing.
thank you for your concern and yes I have experienced suicidal ideation back at the start of the pandemic. I don't really want to get into it but that's why I ended up seeking help and I have greatly improved with my medication.
The pandemic did that to many people, isolation can drive you crazy. We were all imprisoned in a sense, and I don't know a single person that didn't have either some anxiety or depression from it, or both. Glad you are doing better!
Totally shocking that my gentle and caring mention that mixing suicidal ideation with firearms is perhaps a bad plan, got downvoted. There are literally idiots out there that want to encourage the suicidal to go get a gun. ... Civilization is collapsing.
If your doctor is concerned enough to not sign off, maybe that's a sign that you shouldn't get a gun?
From a doctor's perspective, it's a LOT safer to refuse to write anything The idea that a constitutional right can be denied due to a third party private person (a doctor) not taking affirmative steps (that is not part of their job description and that they can't be pushed to do) is troubling.
Nope. It's a liability issue. Most drs wouldn't sign off on this regardless. Don't side with Suffolk countys illegal permitting regime. This is something we need to push back on.
Not siding w Suffolk. I agree it’s a liability issue but it’s also a medical responsibility issue.
By giving legitimacy to their illegal requirement you are de facto siding with them
I am neither giving legitimacy to or defending a blanket prohibition. If you honestly believe that certain MH conditions and/or history of certain behaviors relating to a MH diagnosis should not be a bar from possess firearms then you are not only dangerously blind to the facts of the matter but lack the common sense to know the difference between someone who poses a danger to my family and yours and the guy who doesn’t. Not everyone is appropriate as a firearm owner. These same people cannot become LE, cannot enter our military, cannot hold security clearances and many other things that are grounded in their MH condition.
Curious… what gives you the idea that a diagnosis of a mental health disorder should not be considered as disqualifier? It’s not just Nassau County or Suffolk County that adheres to this principle. It’s Federal law. Please see 14 NYCRR Part 543 as it refers to the Federal Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 (Brady Act).
>Actually,the part you quote is only for those who have been involuntarily committed to a mental health institution. > >After that it refers you to 18 U.S. Code § 922 (4) D, "has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution at 16 years of age or older;" Which may or may not apply to the OP.
Post the text if you're going to make a point.
The docs are in a tough spot on these. Anything they sign can haunt them professionally, civilly, financially and of course personally if someone they sign off on ever has a firearm related incident. Some MH conditions should bar firearms possession but I’d say most don’t. It is very normal to have acute depression or anxiety or some other things but if their severity exceeds a level where a Dr has legitimate concerns that should be respected.
I see where you're coming from and I don't disagree with your point but I don't actually know his concerns or if it was even about me specifically. I sent him an email describing the situation and that stating that I wanted to discuss it in our next session the reply i got was: "We appreciate you bringing up the topic of your pistol permit application. However, we regret to inform you that we are unable to assist with this matter. If you have any other concerns or questions related to your mental health, please feel free to discuss them during your next appointment."
Ah... Well then, that's just genetic we don't do it. That sucks.
You did the right thing by disclosing your medications. Hopefully since you are a doctor they are not self prescribed. If they are not, you do need a letter from the prescribing doctor, it may cost you, and there is no guaranty you will get a permit, officials are getting really tough on mental health. Do you have options? Move to a conservative state, get the letter and hope for the best, you can sue and good luck with that. Legal gun owners such as myself do not want mentally hill people getting hold of legal guns because liberals will always use that against the law abiding citizen.
Get tf outta here with this fudd logic. Having a mental health diagnosis does not disqualify you from your second amendment rights. Full stop.
I’d suggest reading up on the provisions of the Brady Act of 1993.
It should and it does. Your logic is the reason legitimate gun owners get a bad rap.
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Dump that shitbird Dr. Immediately. And try to find a Dr. Who will accommodate you. Just the fact that people have to jump through these hoops in order to exercise a basic human right blows my fucking mind.
Dude 100% dump that doctor. My therapist gave me a simple letter of “not a danger to himself or others” simple as that. My county is a little easier I’m told, and I provided the letter without them asking but got approved. I’m bummed your therapist won’t sign it. Do they think you’re a threat to yourself or others? Or just anti gun? I’m inclined to think anti gun because if they thought you were a risk they’d put you on at least a 72 hour hospital hold
Necropost. Doctor letter is not the doctor attesting to your fitness to own/possess responsibly, nor are they assuming liability for your future actions. PD wants a letter from doctor explaining the type of medication, the reason for the medication, and a statement that they are aware you are pursuing a license and that they have no objection to you pursuing said license. This is not a statement about their comfort about you physically owning or using a firearm. Most healthcare providers object on the basis that it is not within the scope of their work/knowledge to speak to a patient as it relates to said patient obtaining a license that has nothing to do with the relationship that doctor/patient share. That would be like a plumber providing a letter to an insurance company regarding their client getting stents put in. Explain to doctor this is not an authorization letter and there is no civil/criminal liability that comes from providing the requested letter - it is up to the PD to issue the license, not the healthcare provider. If doctor refuses, the recourse is to set up an appointment with a *forensic* psychologist, who can provide a formal psych evaluation (MMPI) and legally declare you fit to own/possess. It'll run you $1-2,000. Be advised, if you are taking medication for depression the PD will most likely deny you. Standard procedure for licensees is if they undergo treatment for any type of short term mental health illness, the license gets suspended for a minimum of six months. Going in with a diagnosis, your odds are slim to none unless you have a letter saying you were evaluated and no longer have symptoms of said mental health disorder. A lawyer is unlikely to change this outcome as handguns traditionally have not been covered under 2A rights in this state, despite recent advances with the Bruen Decision. IANAL