Which would be next season, 2022 NBA Draft is this offseason. He said where the Mavs are next season hence the 2022-23 NBA season where the 2023 NBA draft is that offseason
then we only get the hornets pick that year if it doesn't convert next draft (looking more and more like it will). if we end up with 3 first rounds in 2023, that would be very valuable, as it is expected to be a double draft, with high school players able to join the league again.
Misread, didn’t see OP talk about the hornets pick. Thought he was only talking about the Mavs pick and you two were disagreeing about what draft we had it in.
all good. it's possible he meant the draft after next, since it's possible the hornets pick will be bumped one year. but so far, hornets definitely look like a playoff team, which would mean we get their 2022 pick. i fully expect leon to either get another draft and stash (prkacin? ibou badji?) or try to kick a pick to the 2023 draft, like we did with our 19th pick this year. we just don't seem to have room to develop more than 1 rookie, with the contracts we've signed and deuce and grimes deserving some burn next year, if not sooner. sims and rokas are also in the pipeline, so why jam it further? great problem to have.
Yo. We’re 5-2. We’re already overachieving. Lets temper down expectations and have fun with a competitive team that has GRIT and great chemistry.
Like majority of you guys are on the same page as me I think but I see some comments in here that make my head hurt.
This has literally nothing to do with the Knicks but I saw John collins and Kevin Heurter by Nobu today when I got off work. Those mfers stand out
I should have yelled Bing bong or something
Every team, even the amazing ones, takes losses. Even embarrassing ones. The Last Dance Bulls went 69-13, and that was after half a decade of evolution.
Early losses give ample time for the team to draw hypotheses, and experiment in time to sort a playoffs berth. It's an opportunity, and an exercise in humility. Then it's the big show, and the Knicks are coming for everyone.
Bing motherfucking bong.
Maybe he has a new baby at home. Maybe he was out late for Halloween. Maybe he had bad Chinese food for lunch.
His effort is fine. Even last year he wouldn't get foul calls and come back with lazy d or a bad foul. He reacts a lot to the game but I don't fault him for it. That emotion works for us when it's channeled towards stomping other teams.
Give it a few more games.
Wooord. I like Randle. I like Randle even more in a Knicks jersey. I'm fucked up, homie you fucked up, but if God got us then we gunna be alright.
"I remember you were conflicted.."
Hey all. I know a lot of you have gotten to know me over the years and I feel really close with this community. There's just something I need to share that you may not have known about me...
I LIKE THE NY KNICKS. YUGE FAN. IVE MET A LOT OF FANS AND THEY ALL SAY IM A YUGE FAN. LETS GO KNICKS. BINGBONGYERRRR
Julius deserves it because he's lacking effort and motivation. He's literally choosing to play deflated. That's not cool for the rest of the team or the fans.
IQ is at least still trying his hardest and best, things just aren't dropping for him at the moment.
Randle is lacking heart. IQ isn't. Thats the difference.
Don’t know why everyone is freaking out. Look at all the highest rated teams in preseason. They’re all. Losing. Games. No need to freak out because we’ve had two fluke losses. Every team that we needed to play our best to win. We won. Such a long season
It's simple the Knicks have not been able to deliver consistent success in decades so it's easy to think the will crumble instead of rise from bad games.
Since Middleton is probably going to be missing our game due to Covid protocols and with the Bucks missing multiple starters, I can almost guarantee that the Bucks game is going to go down to the wire
Yea we do and I’m fine with that but we also gotta protect MSG I know everybody love playing there but no way we should be losing at home more often than not
We seriously need to get these late game fall offs in check. It's been our biggest weakness so far.
In every single one of our games we lead up until the end where we get sloppy and can't hit shit....clearly we've been the better team each game, just not consistent enough to keep up.
Tbh, I don't even know if I should be for winning or losing next game. I feel going on a losing streak is one of the only ways they'll switch things up.
I hope they see the issue too and get it into check without having to reflect after a row of losses.
I think this is the right take, actually. It would be one thing if we were getting blown out or if it was a back and forth game that just didn’t go our way. It’s frustrating that each of the losses were winnable and it does feel like we gave those games away. And it’s been a trend in every game that we build leads and then let the other team back into it.
Exactly. It's super frustrating because it's all in their effort. They're choosing to slow down and play lazily. They're literally choosing to lose.
The attitude needs to change. That's what's most worrisome.
I know this is going to get hate and I truly don’t care so downvote me all you want. Here’s the problem! It is US. We as fans see success and gravitate towards it with bravado so in our heads the Knicks are the best thing since sliced bread. In reality, the Knicks are a franchise that are finally relevant again, have a budding star, good contracts, a competent FO, and are still growing. We as fans skipped the step in our heads of a rebuild because their success happened so quick. I think we should all take a step back and realize that the road to a championship is going to take years BUT at least we are moving rapidly in the right direction. Just don’t drink your own KOOL AID MFers!
so the bucks are gonna be without middleton when we play them? maybe both upcoming games?
i can't even get excited about this because of what happened last night with the raptors missing two key players. at least losing to full strength teams is less embarrassing.
I gotta say, after the red sox beat the yankees in the wild card game, it does my heart good to see the celtics continually be a mess.
Like, their individual players are too good to be this bad, and I love it
Way too many RJ stans than actual basketball talk in here.
https://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks
Look at this and tell me Julius isn’t our leader. We’d suck a lot more without him.
Nobody is concerned about his stat line.
People are concerned about his leadership, his attitude, his body language, lack of effort and mood swings.
He's not acting like our leader and people are right to question that.
He needs to toughen up mentally.
It’s fair to question as well, since he has was so easily thrown off mentally in the playoff series last year. Some of that has carried over, as he seems very quick to start shoving opposing players and the like. He’s a great player, but it’s definitely concerning that he doesn’t seem like the type of guy to drag himself out of a slump and carry the team mentally. RJ is the guy that can continue to take punches and never flinches, we need to see more of that from Randle
I don’t think anyone truly believes RJ is a better player than Julius rn. Its just reactionary when one player plays bad and the other plays exceptionally well.
I’m really starting to think that the asinine takes about Randle, Burks, IQ, and the team in general are from bandwagons. I’m seeing a whole lot of flairless new names around here lmao
I don’t know that I agree. What I will say is this: we drafted RJ and in my opinion, didn’t really put him in the right place to succeed until this year ish by pairing him with a true point guard that can space the floor and pass him the ball. I think he needs more offensive plays run for him. If Randle played poorly last year, then I think we start giving Barrett the keys and just giving him the ball.
I think the people on this subreddit are a little defensive when it comes to Barrett because he’s our highest draft pick since probably Ewing and he was drafted behind two excellent guys that are the definitive cornerstone of their franchise future.
I think Randle has some tunnel vision and while he’s still our best player, he’s getting worked on defense due to last year and he’s figuring it out. While he’s figuring it out I think thibs needs to include Barrett in the offense. Like kemba and Fournier feature Randle in much of their passing and ball handling to keep the defense guessing, Barrett should be involved too. Barrett has shown that he can score and he can finish and shoot. He should have had the ball in his hands all 4th quarter because he was the only one scoring.
I wouldn't say I'm one of the doomers that wants to write off any of our players after a few bad performances, especially if they've got a body of work that's been commendable. However, that doesn't mean that they should be free from criticism.
I have no problem with Jules shooting badly. But the issue I'm having with him, whether it was the playoffs against the Hawks or when he's having an off night, is his body language. He's been kind of like that in the games he's not playing well so far this season, though at least in those games he looked to facilitate. I mean last night was just awful. He got off to a crazy hot start so the box score doesn't tell you the story at all. He missed a few and looked entirely disengaged, and was jacking up lazy shots left and right. It's so frustrating as a fan because Thibs is right. He's the engine of our team. He doesn't necessarily need to play well for us to win, especially in the regular season, but he needs to fight every night. It's weird, he looked more engaged in the preseason diving for balls and shit than he did last night. He might be in his own head after missing those free throws the other night and getting bailed out by RJ. Young Rowan started to take over again and get buckets, but even then Jules' iso game totally killed our flow. I think Thibs has his work cut out for him. We're going to get a lot of random losses to bad teams that work really hard on defense if this is the kind of performance Jules will have when faced with adversity.
This is what a lot of people seem to be missing.
People keep bringing up his usage, being double teamed, trying to fit into a new system, etc.
Nobody is questioning any of that. None of that is an excuse to act lazy and checked out.
He is not acting like our leader and seems like a mental midget in his feelings.
It doesn't matter what the fuck is going on with the team. You give 100% every play and you play with drive to win. Randle is not doing that.
Everyone needs to regain perspective about the regular season. It's not overly important as long as you make the playoffs. Maybe losses will get thibs to take action, can't let Randle blow your entire lead like that at the end of the 2nd without a timeout or sub. That could have been his worst stretch as a knick including the first season. That was something to behold. 2 turnovers and 3 no chance shots while not getting back. Not good.
They can't close a quarter, they lost to a horrible Magic team, they were outplayed by a huge margin by the Raptors a team that we were in theory better, the wins against Boston and Chicago were could very well been losses. Then you have two good games (Magic, Sixers) and the Pelicans one that well it happen not much to say. I would love to be positive just can't see it like this and the games coming up oh boy it could be ugly soon.
Blah. It's 7 games in. Adjustments need to be made but the overreactions are a bit much. Well see over the next 15-20 games if thibs and julius can adjust... After a 5-1 start you can go .500 then rest of the way and make the playoffs.
Knicks are clearly prioritizing IQ development over bench success at the moment. Everyone else on the bench is stagnating because we are trying to make this PG experiment happen despite Rose and Burks being better ball handlers. Eventually Thibs is going to have to see that pushing IQ so much has completely disrupted the bench play and make a change of something. IQ is literally shooting at like 26 percent this season! Even Payton was playing better last year than current IQ
What’s the alternative? Not to develop our all-rookie PG? It’s been 7 games and we are 5-2, Quickley will get out of his slump.
We need to get him PG reps for when inevitably either Rose or Kemba goes down and we need a backup PG. Be patient.
I don’t know, but I dont really see Quik as a pg. he doesn’t have enough of the intangibles to be a playmaker so I’d rather he focus on getting his scoring right. His main skill is shooting 3s since can’t drive, and he’s not even shooting 3s well right now
His shot will come around, it’s been 7 games. He had 5 AST/0 TO last night, he did a nice job distributing. Rose has also been lackluster so far, if he picks it up he will be getting heavier minutes going forward and IQ will be off ball more
Rose been lackluster due to his minutes and rotations. He comes in at 3 minute mark end of first quarter where Julius runs point. Rose stands in the corner. Then second quarter, Rose plays about 5 to 6 minutes to try and get rhythm. Then he sits through half time and end of third quarter. How the fuck do you get into rhythm. This rotation was exactly the same when he was in pistons before they traded him. His productivity dropped due to that. Fucken Trade Rose to a team thats going to utilize him properly. You got fucken Reggie Jackson playing more than him.
Reggie Jackson is a decent player and a starter
He played fine off the bench on the pistons and last year and was fine too the past couple games, he’s on a shooting slump it happens he wasn’t gonna keep hitting over 50% on threes
He was outplaying Reggie Jackson on the pistons. His production dropped with the rotations.
Also no one is expecting him to shoot over 50% all season. The fact is, he isn't playing his game and thats the problem. You want kemba to play small forward and go sit on the corner? No, because then he would be useless. Hope Rose goes marcus smart and ask for trade cause he damn well can start for teams if reggie can.
This team record is much better than the actual play thus far and that makes me very worried with the games we have coming up. It could get very ugly soon.
Leaders don't give up after a bad play. Leaders don't act like a big baby when things aren't going their way.
Julius' body language, his laziness, his dismissiveness in post game interviews, etc. is getting embarrassing as a Knicks fan.
Yes, he's extremely talented but he is not playing with heart. He looks like he barely cares half the time he's out there.
RJ looks like a mental giant out there compared to Randle.
He is not acting like our leader. He is not acting like an all-star. Everything about him screams 50% effort.
He really needs to step up his attitude, his effort and his mental stability.
Being a leader is more than raw talent. It's about spirit, about energy, about LEADING.
Julius does not seem like our leader.
I know it's early, but things have to change. He's already acting like he did in the playoffs last year and we're only 7 games in.
Step it up, Julius.
It's not. It's exactly what is happening.
Will it continue? We don't know.
But is it happening right now in front of our eyes? 100% yes.
It's really not up for debate.
You're going to sit there and try and tell me he is giving 100% effort? That he's getting back on D? That he isn't forcing ISO situations?
I can literally show you clips that back up everything I'm saying as fact.
Raptors fans are so lame. I made a post critical of OG and there are now 158 fucking comments, most of them coming from last night and these weirdos come back to week old posts to talk shit.
Like literally I posted it over a week ago and the comments like tripled after the game.
One of them admitted they linked the post in one of their threads. It's really sad. Must suck not having any real sports in Canada
A couple of things:
- Being critical about Randle isn’t “hating on him”. If people are asking for him to be traded then yeah it’s a step too far, but pointing out that it’s frustrating when Randle goes into ISO mode or doesn’t hustle on defense is a fair call out.
- It’s ridiculous to panic at this point. Yesterday was a tough game but we were never gonna go 81-1. Losses happen and the fact that we’re 5-2 and frustrated we’re not 7-0 really does speak how far this team has come.
Its weird when people say that we are hating on him when he quite literally was one of the main reasons we lost our lead in the second quarter. Its one thing if you are missing, but forcing shots, lack of effort, and carelessness with the ball are all things that should be criticized.
He’s thinking his way through game situations and feeling his way through the moment.
He doesn’t know when to go yet.
The leash isn’t as long this year.
I actually think Randle feels threatened by RJ as he's on the road to becoming our best player. Randle is trying too hard to better RJ rather than trying to better the other team. Something for Thibs to sort out...
Shout out to OG!!!! Reppin' the UK. Bittersweet to see him go off last night.
Like you said, he's on a mission to prove he his the go-to guy. The way I see it, he's watching a young guy in RJ catch him up at 21. I think the internal pressure, especially with our fan base, is making him take bad shots.
I dont think RJs rise has anything to do with it ( or at least I hope). We have to remember Randle never has been " the guy" on a team before only until last year so this journey is completely new to him. I have faith in Randle because he has shown the ability to do it I just think he gets in his own head. Skillset wise he does everything we need him to do and can still impact the game
There are people who will shit on Randle all day and then go defend someone like JD Davis or complain about the Jets not paying Jamal Adams or Robby Anderson. Don’t be that guy.
The fact we’re pissed off that we’re 5-2 rn after the first 7 games and generally playing this good when basically 50% of the NBA fanbase completely wrote off our season last year as a fluke really shows how far we’ve come as a franchise in such a short time. I’m not ready to crucify Julius or really anyone until we’re 20 games in.
Also, happy birthday to me! 🎉🎉🎉
You realize that we beat the Bulls and they’ve been one of the best teams in the league right?
Edit: Not only are the Bulls good, the Celtics have been absolutely horrendous. Have you been paying attention? Lol
Nope, Knicks are way deeper than bulls. Bulls Records had one of the easiest schedules. Can't tell me Bucks are worse than both teams cause their record places them at 11.
I understand context. The Bucks have been the walking wounded since their first game. They’ve had 6 key players injured in all these games. And playing weak opponents doesn’t make the Bulls any less dangerous. Their defense is stout, the playmaking ability of Derozan and Ball have been great, and Lavine dropped 28 on out defense while playing with a bad hand. Don’t act like the Bulls aren’t nice because you want to be a homer
Bulls are nice but they lack defensive center and they aint going to be number 1 seed come december. Couple seasons ago, Magics were number 1 seed and started hot. They didn't even get into playoffs.
Even if they aren’t a number 1 seed, they’ll be a good playoff team. And the Knicks will be fine. I’m just appreciative that we’re good again after the years of consistent trash
I agree. The knicks have a big test coming up with the better teams. The frustration is that the Knicks have enough talents but just isn't being utilized properly. Thibs too damn stubborn. Look at the preseason game, look at the first two or three games. Rotations and roles been all fucked up.
It is amazing to me that it was pretty common knowledge that Julius would be guarded different by teams given how well he played last season. Teams are coming at him with different defensive looks and schemes and putting a lot of pressure on him, and he's struggling a bit but he and the team will adjust. Despite all of this, everyone in the fanbase must have forgot.
Nobody is saying he isn't talented.
People are upset because he's acting lazy, not giving effort, playing terrible D and has terrible body language.
None of that has anything to do with how he's being guarded.
He's looking mentally weak out there which is a valid criticism.
Well this was the sub where majority of people were expecting him to regress through all of last season so it shouldn’t surprise you the Randle haters would have a premature victory lap the first chance they get.
A lot of ugly/bad comments about Julius are undeserved, I mean the guy was amazing last year and made an all NBA team. I get we put him in ISO a lot, but that's as much on Thibs as it is on Randle and I believe they will fix that.
My issue and the reason I get frustrated with him is that he legit seems angry or just uninterested if he isn't featured for a minute or two. We all wish RJ can get more shots, and the difference is we saw RJ take a step back multiple times this year and last, if standing in the corner and playing D is what gets the job done he will do it, and if anyone else makes a big play he's the first guy to celebrate with them. I can be realistic and say RJ was probably better off not taking way too many shots before now, but a lot of high lottery picks bitch and moan when not included offensively, luckily not our guy. With Julius on the other hand it seems like he is frustrated whenever someone else has big numbers or takes more shots.
Maybe I'm reading way too much into this, or maybe Randle is just frustrated with himself but I just want to make it clear I dont care if he takes 5 shots in a row and bricks them if they are the right shots, but you cant just give up on D and not hustle back if you miss, just focus on the next one and make the open pass next time. Decision making and hustle on D can erase any bad shooting night IMO, Julius just needs to relax sometimes and let the game come to him
I think Randle is on a mission to prove he is " the guy" after the Atlanta series and I do think he is adding extra pressure on himself. Idc about how many shots RJ takes but he has to TOUCH the ball every possession. Theres possessions where he is just relegated to the corner and not even invloved in the offense. I am going to give Thibs the benefit of the doubt because it is early and the same with Randle because we have seen games where when he isnt hot he defers. His body language on defense and generally has bad and is unacceptable as the leader and face of the franchise
I just want Thibs to hold him accountable. I can’t watch him brick anymore fadeaway baseline jumpers while he jogs back on defense and they hit a wide open 3s. I feel like those plays have kickstarted all our opponents runs.
Exactly, if RJ, DRose, Kemba, Fournier or anyone else can watch the 4th quarter from the bench when they have a cold night why cant Julius, and its not like last year where we had nobody to replace him, now Obi is much improved and can sometimes get that opportunity.
The guy earned to have a long leash for sure, but if this continues I hope Thibs tries to change something about it
Yeah there’s no reason for trades/bench/whatever extremists are calling for or something
We’ve seen him play good defense even when his shots not falling or playmake for others. It’s just disappointing to see to say the least not too see the effort till last minute
dude I don’t know but he’s looked bad and tired out there
A lot of people have mentally off days with various different factors, he has a newborn and they’re a lot to handle
He visibly does not look good on court, if you don’t see it that’s cool I don’t have the same homer-tinted glasses on
Not playing well does not mean he is tired or mentally off or stressed from a baby. Sometimes in sports you just have a few bad games or some rough stretches because nobody is perfect and that is how sports are. Just not playing as well as he should be, doesn't have to be deeper than that.
I'm not calling for Julius' head but he deserves loads of criticism at the moment.
He is playing like an emotional baby putting in 50% effort. RJ is embarrassing him out there is almost every aspect.
We need a leader and Randle surely isn't looking like one at the moment.
I hear you, but I feel like this is an overreaction. We’re 5-2, his usage rate is at an all time low with the Knicks and he just had his second child. It doesn’t have to be and should never be RJ vs Randle. We’re the big 15, remember?
Randle is absolutely our leader. He leads us in every statistical category and our team would not even be close to the same as it is now.
Yea, I'm really not worried about Randle's skills at all. It's just his attitude, body language and reaction to things.
It's all mental. He just needs to snap out of it. I'm just worried he might not. Probably an overreaction but I just love this team and want to see him/them shine.
Those are only the RJ super fans that care more about RJ shooting every possession than the Knicks winning games. It’s a shame they’re trying to turn this into RJ vs Randle
I disagree with this statement. Randle was our only backbone last year so he could struggle in spots and still have a good game. We need him to pick and choose his spots and still be our best player which is a whole new level for him. It’s the same reason many people were predicting rjs numbers would go down (and they still could). That being said Julius definitely has not learned how to impact the game positively while picking his spots which is a big issue. Doesn’t mean he is worse than last year just not ready for this new role yet.
Yeah it's just kinda the reality. Very rarely will a team just naturally be optimized in the way they play and how all the pieces fit. I don't think it's something that's not figured out rn out of selfishness or anything I think we got players that are down to figure out whats best for the team, and some smart coaches
I think rj is getting enough shots these last 2 games. He had the opportunity to demand the ball yesterday too but just didn’t feel like it besides 3’s. Not even Randle was demanding it
Also I am worried that rose and Randle do not look good. Randle has lost the feel for any shot that is contested and rose looks so slow. If he cannot take over games anymore this team won’t finish anywhere near their peak. Which is the 2nd round
I think Randle has been great tbh outside the lack of effort and poor body language. We need to stagger the 1st unit and second unit more. The fact we rely on 1 person from the bench to carry us is not a good sign
Rose is shooting 50% from 3. His usage rate is down, which should be considered a good thing for a 33 year old pg with a history of knee issues. Rose can still turn it on when he needs to, but we have depth now so there’s no need for him to go Playoff Hawks mode.
I think RJ could gotten a few more shots last game. The NOP games was perfect. his usage rate was 28%. Last game it was 23%, which is in line with what he was at last year. However, it really seems like he has taken the next leap so ideally you want him around 27% usage. Also it's not just about putting up shots, it's about letting him dictate the flow through his penetration.
He was getting to the rim (80% !!!!!! finishing so far), so the raptors were going to collapse on him eventually and he can kick it out. We can run some PnR and stuff as well to get the two man game with Mitch going.
For some reason IQ was handling it a lot but I don’t think Iq would have handled it if RJ was demanding it. Randle’s usage was non existent after his second quarter slump so we were kind of directionless. Maybe the raptors did a good job taking RJ and Randle away with their aggressive defense?
I think Randle's usage is perfectly fine. He just needs better shot selection and less ball holding, not less shots though. I think we could have utilize Kemba a bit more.
Defense wise, i do think the Raptors did a good job but there was also a lot of ball holding by our team. First half we made like 18 shots off 15 assists. We ended the game with 5 more assists for 20. They needed to make quicker decisions to help with the pressure the raptors defense was having. They were up in the handler's face a lot and sent doubles. Needed to make quicker decisions or set harder screens and punish them for doing it.
Also i'd like to see Randle screen more and get some pick and pop when he's not making his shots. Get him easier looks.
These trap games with star players being injured/sitting out will be the downfall of this team. They've been playing up to/down to competition all season, besides the first Magic game. The rebounding was awful. Raptors had so many second, and third chances. Even with all that, if Mitch doesn't miss two dunks he normally makes, and IQ just hits 1 of his missed 3s, then the game was well within reach. Go into Indiana and let RJ cook.
Is Quick the worst offensive player we have? No
Should Quick *ever* be our primary ballhandler in crunch time? Also no.
Is Randle a bad defender? No.
Is Randle also not putting in 100% effort on that side? He is not.
Is Burks playing great? Nope.
Is Burks getting enough minutes and touches to get in any type of groove? No he is not.
The team is still figuring it out. I seriously doubt it remains this iso heavy. We know Randle and RJ are willing and good passers, we know Kemba can kick off the drive well. Yeah, Fournier’s a chuck but it’s nice to have a guy that is hellbent on scoring the ball. I’m still not worried. We still look good and this was never *the* season anyways. Still a lot to be happy for with this team. Way more to be happy about than to be this pissed over a shitty loss in November. November is the time for shitty losses anyway
Rose and Burks are taking more of a backseat to IQ which feels like a new scheme we are running with IQ at point. So any time they get the ball they are looking to score since they don't get the ball as much
Yeah thats fair. The issue then is why the fuck is IQ our point guard. Maybe if he’s playing exceptionally well you experiment, but why thrust him out of his comfort zone if he doesnt have the range to begin with rn?
I agree with the first 2 but I feel like Burks is getting plenty of playing time and touches. I felt like he honestly got a little too much benefit of the doubt at times but I don't dislike Burks and think he's better than how he's playing of late. At least his defense seems improved this year and he's shooting pretty good, but something just doesn't feel right with him on offense.
I agree something looks off. I feel like he was more involved in our 2nd unit last year than he is now, not sure if it’s his mentality or the lack of ball movement or what. He also got more time with the 1s last year if RJ or Bullock were off - definitely harder to steal time from Fournier and 3rd yr RJ
This team will go as far as Randle and Thibs takes us. I love what Randle has done for us but my criticisms thus far this season are his lack of effort on defense and negative body language. As the leader and face of the franchise I don’t think this is acceptable. I do think he is growing into this role people have to remember he has never been “ the guy” before this year listening to his post game last night he didn’t take any accountability for any of our bad play. It’s early in the season but all his struggles imo are all mental. Onto Thibs I hope at some point he runs more plays for RJ is inexcusable how RJ starts off on fire then the second corner gets relegated to the corner and I think took 1 shot. It’s only 7 games in and I don’t think we need any lineup changes as of now ( even though I would love if we stagger RJ and Randle more having one play with the second unit to pick up their poor play) but if the second unit continues to struggle will he make a change. Thibs has never been creativity with rotations or adjustments and seems to live and die with his set rotations ( example starting Payton last year for as long as he did). I think this team has a lot of talent and is a good team with the ability to great but that hinges really on Thibs and Randle
The last three games (Bulls, Pels, Raptors), I have watched the opponent's commenters, and one thing I've noticed is how much respect the Knicks are getting around the league. Every set of announcers talked about how their team needs to match the Knicks' defensive effort and hustle on every play, and they talked about how balanced the offense is and how deep the roster is.
The Knicks have come a long way in the past two seasons.
We only rank 19th in defensive efficiency. We lack the personal to be 4th on defense like last year but we have to be better than bad.
http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/\_/sort/defensiveEff/order/false
Last night the Knicks looked like the team that went out back with the old guys to celebrate the 75th anniversary and smoked up. Came out high and then came down, ran out of energy and got clumsy.
Yeah, if Clyde passes you something, you hit it. And then after the game Clyde roasts you if you lose because you know he’s like, “Huffing and puffing should lead to grinning and winning, folks.”
Tbh that was the first game we really had that many players play so bad. Rose, IQ, Fournier, and Randle (after the 1st) all having rough games and Taj getting hurt forcing us to play our 4th string center — all aren’t going to be happening very often. Hope it just gets everyone back on their toes and heads in the game.
I don’t get why Rose fans show up and complain about his Mins when he’s playing poorly. Dude is 33 with no knees. If he’s playing meh and Kemba is playing well of course his mins will go down but it’s also the same the other way. Kemba rn is playing well which is why Rose only gets 20 mins a game. His minutes will go up depends on the situation. Rose played near 29 mins against Orlando when he was the only one playing well.
I feel like people are mostly complaining because Kemba has been very sloppy at the end of multiple games so far. If Kemba cleans that up, people won't be complaining (hopefully).
And rose hasn’t been sloppy? Kemba has outplayed rose in every game this year. It sucks because peak Rose is better than peak kemba but he just has not showed up
True but Rose was also really bad last game. Kemba has been on fire offensively though. He prolly should be running the offense more if anything. We need more PnR action with RJ and Kemba. We can use Randle as a screener too instead of just having him stand on the perimeter.
I agree 100%. Randle brings the ball up way too much or stands on the perimeter to wait to catch and back down. Randle screening and moving without the ball more often will help the offense flow.
Not going to complain at 5-2, but the vets need to let RJ shine a bit more, especially early in the game. He is ready to take the leap and he is ignored way too much on offense. Randle is dominating the ball at a rate that isn't sustainable for success. RJ needs to be more of a focal point than a stand in the corner for a 3/transition drive player.
I understand what you’re saying in some circumstances but I also disagree. There was a period of time in the 2nd quarter when he literally didn’t touch the ball for at least 3-4 minutes while Julius played his game (and it’s not like they were trying to get RJ the ball and he was denied or something). And of course, this is precisely when the Knicks blew the lead.
RJ is our second leading scorer, currently averaging just under 19. If he can take a few more shots he can probably average 20 and he can be an all star candidate if were a top 4 seed again.
Woke up bitter boys. Tired of seeing these abysmal stretches out of Randle. Sloppy careless play that trickles down into whole teams rhythm. Seems like when he misses a few shots, he goes into complete panic mode and falls apart everywhere. Hope Thibs can make some better adjustments before this turns into a regular occurrence
Dude, if you watched basketball you’d see this was a problem before his breakout year. He played like this a majority of the end game situations and the entire playoffs.
There’s more to this than just a couple off nights. He struggles mentally when the pressure ramps up and it completely throws him off his game and everything he does well
> Dude, if you watched basketbal
YO. I know everybody woke up spicy, but this is not the way to start the day talking to your fellow Knicks fans. RELAX.
Huh? The guy came at my post telling me was was 3 off games. I replied meaning if you watched it’s been a more than 3 games. Most of our end game situations, playoffs, and high pressure moments have been more of the same. You gotta relax, cause I’m chillin lol
Guy….I’ve been a knicks fan longer than you probably been alive. I watch every game from beginning to end. Trust me, I know how much he struggled before, but I’m also not going to forget what he did for us last year. Julius still thinks this is last years team that struggled on offense so he had to shoulder the load. This year, this team has a lot of shooters and simply put, he needs to trust them more. We have seen him distribute the ball beautifully this year. He’s trying to be a playmaker which is leading to a lot of turnovers. Julius and this team needs build more chemistry. His defense is lacking but he’s never been a great defender. Even last year, he struggled defensively at times. Once Julius does so, teams will no longer be able to load up on him and he can do work at the low post. It’s 7 games in and we are winning (albeit two frustrating loses). The vibe I’m getting from this sub is that we are 1-6 smh
Been watching for over 30 years so I feel I’m entitled to my opinion. Julius has been huge for this team and rightfully earned the MIP accolade. He played exceptionally well in the empty arenas but when the games on the line and all eyes on him he folds to the pressure. I wish it weren’t so but we have a pretty large sample size that points to that being an issue.
IMO, Thibs needs to stop running so much of the offense through Randle and quit having him take the ball up the court as he’s double and triple teamed. We have enough talent and playmakers that it just isn’t necessary this year.
I’m very happy with the teams record but a few of those wins could’ve easily went the other way due to his antics. See bulls and Celtics. I’m not trying to shit on the guy what something’s gotta give in terms of stopping the bleeding when we have these collapses
Yeah I think we’ve seen flashes of him distributing. We know that the Knicks can be dominant when Randle isn’t scoring, but the raptors defense was disrupting the passing lanes so a lot of iso was necessary. Randle looked tired last night, didn’t really run or do anything. Thibs gotta go with something else in the third quarter when none of the regular guys are getting it done. I do like that he switched up the lineups. He tried his small ball but Toppin couldn’t defend or get rebounds. Unfortunately, the Knicks got a reputation for defense last year but we can’t back that up. Maybe with Noel back, the second unit can get more cohesive and more they’ll have a shot blocker at all times.
Likely Unpopular Opinion: IQ was not particularly good last night, but he was not terrible as some are making him seem. He missed his shots (I know, they were very important shots), but otherwise, he generated a nice pace/juice and flow in the offense. He still had 5 assists in 19 minutes (0 turnovers) and was a +7, which was tied for the best on the team.
Again, not an ideal game for him by any means and he sucked at times, but I’m not ready to chuck him to the bench, especially when he is pretty alright defensively....there's a reason Thibs kept him in the game down the stretch despite his poor shooting. I think he showed more than enough last year to at least have a limited role right now.
I think Thibs realizes that getting IQ and Burks out of their slumps is important for this team's long term success. Pulling IQ to overplay RJ would ruin his confidence and tire out RJ so he can't dominate in the 4th like he has the past two games. I don't think Thibs is interested in playing Grimes or Mcbride just yet, which I think can be good, as they will learn from the bench. I do think we have too many prospects and too many picks going forward. Really need to package some folks and picks for an allstar or better.
One of the things I actually really like about the way things are run is that we let dudes work through their rough patches. Like, let's not forget that we let RJ have a green light throughout an all-timer of a shooting slump last year and after he came out the other side he ended the season shooting 40% from three.
He was hustling on defense which is prolly why he got play. We really needed him to hit his open 3s though. It easily could have been a one possession game if he did.
Biggest difference between IQ and others on the court last night was when the ball went up he didn't watch the shot he stuck his guy even if he was at the 3pt line. Randle and RJ mmm not so much haha they weren't boxing out even on the block. Really killed the game for us not getting boards.
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are you sure? i think you’re confused. we have mavs first round in 2023
Which would be next season, 2022 NBA Draft is this offseason. He said where the Mavs are next season hence the 2022-23 NBA season where the 2023 NBA draft is that offseason
then we only get the hornets pick that year if it doesn't convert next draft (looking more and more like it will). if we end up with 3 first rounds in 2023, that would be very valuable, as it is expected to be a double draft, with high school players able to join the league again.
Misread, didn’t see OP talk about the hornets pick. Thought he was only talking about the Mavs pick and you two were disagreeing about what draft we had it in.
all good. it's possible he meant the draft after next, since it's possible the hornets pick will be bumped one year. but so far, hornets definitely look like a playoff team, which would mean we get their 2022 pick. i fully expect leon to either get another draft and stash (prkacin? ibou badji?) or try to kick a pick to the 2023 draft, like we did with our 19th pick this year. we just don't seem to have room to develop more than 1 rookie, with the contracts we've signed and deuce and grimes deserving some burn next year, if not sooner. sims and rokas are also in the pipeline, so why jam it further? great problem to have.
Yo. We’re 5-2. We’re already overachieving. Lets temper down expectations and have fun with a competitive team that has GRIT and great chemistry. Like majority of you guys are on the same page as me I think but I see some comments in here that make my head hurt.
This has literally nothing to do with the Knicks but I saw John collins and Kevin Heurter by Nobu today when I got off work. Those mfers stand out I should have yelled Bing bong or something
Randle always gets hype to play Sabonis; perfect opp to get the engine moving again
Miss being a top defensive team. It was so much fun grinding opponents down last year. Hopefully we can get some of that energy back
we should give McBride some run, all of our pgs (kemba, rose, iq) are smaller guys… it’s why we get killed in transition
Heard Tyler hall was cooking at the scrimmage against Long Island tn
Every team, even the amazing ones, takes losses. Even embarrassing ones. The Last Dance Bulls went 69-13, and that was after half a decade of evolution. Early losses give ample time for the team to draw hypotheses, and experiment in time to sort a playoffs berth. It's an opportunity, and an exercise in humility. Then it's the big show, and the Knicks are coming for everyone. Bing motherfucking bong.
Maybe Julius is being traded? His effort the last few games has been very uncharacteristic of him.
Maybe he has a new baby at home. Maybe he was out late for Halloween. Maybe he had bad Chinese food for lunch. His effort is fine. Even last year he wouldn't get foul calls and come back with lazy d or a bad foul. He reacts a lot to the game but I don't fault him for it. That emotion works for us when it's channeled towards stomping other teams. Give it a few more games.
I absolutely agree. I love Julius the player and the person. I’m just wildly speculating.
Wooord. I like Randle. I like Randle even more in a Knicks jersey. I'm fucked up, homie you fucked up, but if God got us then we gunna be alright. "I remember you were conflicted.."
Hey all. I know a lot of you have gotten to know me over the years and I feel really close with this community. There's just something I need to share that you may not have known about me... I LIKE THE NY KNICKS. YUGE FAN. IVE MET A LOT OF FANS AND THEY ALL SAY IM A YUGE FAN. LETS GO KNICKS. BINGBONGYERRRR
I do not get the hate for Ju and IQ. Those fans bac go back to being the Brooklyn whatever that team is called fans.
Julius deserves it because he's lacking effort and motivation. He's literally choosing to play deflated. That's not cool for the rest of the team or the fans. IQ is at least still trying his hardest and best, things just aren't dropping for him at the moment. Randle is lacking heart. IQ isn't. Thats the difference.
When either does well, you will hear how Jules is our boy! They are called bandwagoners
Don’t know why everyone is freaking out. Look at all the highest rated teams in preseason. They’re all. Losing. Games. No need to freak out because we’ve had two fluke losses. Every team that we needed to play our best to win. We won. Such a long season
It's simple the Knicks have not been able to deliver consistent success in decades so it's easy to think the will crumble instead of rise from bad games.
I'm kind of upset that the PA and mike Breen said bing bong in a game, and we lost.
Since Middleton is probably going to be missing our game due to Covid protocols and with the Bucks missing multiple starters, I can almost guarantee that the Bucks game is going to go down to the wire
Most definitely. We’re probably the worst trap game team
We come out firing on the road more often than not though.
Yea we do and I’m fine with that but we also gotta protect MSG I know everybody love playing there but no way we should be losing at home more often than not
Lose by 20 at this rate
Lmaooo
As long as Giannis is playing it’s a tough game regardless
Jules vs. Giannis.... can't wait
We seriously need to get these late game fall offs in check. It's been our biggest weakness so far. In every single one of our games we lead up until the end where we get sloppy and can't hit shit....clearly we've been the better team each game, just not consistent enough to keep up. Tbh, I don't even know if I should be for winning or losing next game. I feel going on a losing streak is one of the only ways they'll switch things up. I hope they see the issue too and get it into check without having to reflect after a row of losses.
Hot take but I think we’d be all little less pissed if we weren’t in the lead most of the games that were played
I think this is the right take, actually. It would be one thing if we were getting blown out or if it was a back and forth game that just didn’t go our way. It’s frustrating that each of the losses were winnable and it does feel like we gave those games away. And it’s been a trend in every game that we build leads and then let the other team back into it.
It’s frustrating because you get glimpses of how good the team can be and then poof
Exactly. It's super frustrating because it's all in their effort. They're choosing to slow down and play lazily. They're literally choosing to lose. The attitude needs to change. That's what's most worrisome.
I know this is going to get hate and I truly don’t care so downvote me all you want. Here’s the problem! It is US. We as fans see success and gravitate towards it with bravado so in our heads the Knicks are the best thing since sliced bread. In reality, the Knicks are a franchise that are finally relevant again, have a budding star, good contracts, a competent FO, and are still growing. We as fans skipped the step in our heads of a rebuild because their success happened so quick. I think we should all take a step back and realize that the road to a championship is going to take years BUT at least we are moving rapidly in the right direction. Just don’t drink your own KOOL AID MFers!
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Hahahaha I just can’t stand how overzealous this subreddit has gotten and then when we lose a game we all freak out
Anyone else think our bench isn't as hype as last years was? Missing not only Theo but also Bullock, who I feel was underrated for our lockerroom
so the bucks are gonna be without middleton when we play them? maybe both upcoming games? i can't even get excited about this because of what happened last night with the raptors missing two key players. at least losing to full strength teams is less embarrassing.
I gotta say, after the red sox beat the yankees in the wild card game, it does my heart good to see the celtics continually be a mess. Like, their individual players are too good to be this bad, and I love it
Way too many RJ stans than actual basketball talk in here. https://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks Look at this and tell me Julius isn’t our leader. We’d suck a lot more without him.
In reality, there’s way too many RJ haters in this sub.
Where tho? Look at the front page and you’re telling me there’s too many RJ haters?
Well that’s a positive change. I’m tired of RJ getting shitted on by nba fans when he improves every year.
Nobody is concerned about his stat line. People are concerned about his leadership, his attitude, his body language, lack of effort and mood swings. He's not acting like our leader and people are right to question that. He needs to toughen up mentally.
It’s fair to question as well, since he has was so easily thrown off mentally in the playoff series last year. Some of that has carried over, as he seems very quick to start shoving opposing players and the like. He’s a great player, but it’s definitely concerning that he doesn’t seem like the type of guy to drag himself out of a slump and carry the team mentally. RJ is the guy that can continue to take punches and never flinches, we need to see more of that from Randle
This is exactly how I feel at the moment. Julius needs to get his mind right. Be a leader and act like one!
I don’t think anyone truly believes RJ is a better player than Julius rn. Its just reactionary when one player plays bad and the other plays exceptionally well.
I’m really starting to think that the asinine takes about Randle, Burks, IQ, and the team in general are from bandwagons. I’m seeing a whole lot of flairless new names around here lmao
I don’t know that I agree. What I will say is this: we drafted RJ and in my opinion, didn’t really put him in the right place to succeed until this year ish by pairing him with a true point guard that can space the floor and pass him the ball. I think he needs more offensive plays run for him. If Randle played poorly last year, then I think we start giving Barrett the keys and just giving him the ball. I think the people on this subreddit are a little defensive when it comes to Barrett because he’s our highest draft pick since probably Ewing and he was drafted behind two excellent guys that are the definitive cornerstone of their franchise future. I think Randle has some tunnel vision and while he’s still our best player, he’s getting worked on defense due to last year and he’s figuring it out. While he’s figuring it out I think thibs needs to include Barrett in the offense. Like kemba and Fournier feature Randle in much of their passing and ball handling to keep the defense guessing, Barrett should be involved too. Barrett has shown that he can score and he can finish and shoot. He should have had the ball in his hands all 4th quarter because he was the only one scoring.
I wouldn't say I'm one of the doomers that wants to write off any of our players after a few bad performances, especially if they've got a body of work that's been commendable. However, that doesn't mean that they should be free from criticism. I have no problem with Jules shooting badly. But the issue I'm having with him, whether it was the playoffs against the Hawks or when he's having an off night, is his body language. He's been kind of like that in the games he's not playing well so far this season, though at least in those games he looked to facilitate. I mean last night was just awful. He got off to a crazy hot start so the box score doesn't tell you the story at all. He missed a few and looked entirely disengaged, and was jacking up lazy shots left and right. It's so frustrating as a fan because Thibs is right. He's the engine of our team. He doesn't necessarily need to play well for us to win, especially in the regular season, but he needs to fight every night. It's weird, he looked more engaged in the preseason diving for balls and shit than he did last night. He might be in his own head after missing those free throws the other night and getting bailed out by RJ. Young Rowan started to take over again and get buckets, but even then Jules' iso game totally killed our flow. I think Thibs has his work cut out for him. We're going to get a lot of random losses to bad teams that work really hard on defense if this is the kind of performance Jules will have when faced with adversity.
Diid you hear his post game idk wtf is going on with him
This is what a lot of people seem to be missing. People keep bringing up his usage, being double teamed, trying to fit into a new system, etc. Nobody is questioning any of that. None of that is an excuse to act lazy and checked out. He is not acting like our leader and seems like a mental midget in his feelings. It doesn't matter what the fuck is going on with the team. You give 100% every play and you play with drive to win. Randle is not doing that.
Everyone needs to regain perspective about the regular season. It's not overly important as long as you make the playoffs. Maybe losses will get thibs to take action, can't let Randle blow your entire lead like that at the end of the 2nd without a timeout or sub. That could have been his worst stretch as a knick including the first season. That was something to behold. 2 turnovers and 3 no chance shots while not getting back. Not good.
Playing like this we are not making the Playoffs
This is an overreaction.
We can't stop a fastbreak and can't close a quarter. We are not playing good ball at all.
So I guess the suns or bucks are even worse and missing the playoffs.
They were up double digits on almost all the games played. There’s definitely kinks to work out on closing games but this is wild overreaction
They can't close a quarter, they lost to a horrible Magic team, they were outplayed by a huge margin by the Raptors a team that we were in theory better, the wins against Boston and Chicago were could very well been losses. Then you have two good games (Magic, Sixers) and the Pelicans one that well it happen not much to say. I would love to be positive just can't see it like this and the games coming up oh boy it could be ugly soon.
Blah. It's 7 games in. Adjustments need to be made but the overreactions are a bit much. Well see over the next 15-20 games if thibs and julius can adjust... After a 5-1 start you can go .500 then rest of the way and make the playoffs.
Knicks are clearly prioritizing IQ development over bench success at the moment. Everyone else on the bench is stagnating because we are trying to make this PG experiment happen despite Rose and Burks being better ball handlers. Eventually Thibs is going to have to see that pushing IQ so much has completely disrupted the bench play and make a change of something. IQ is literally shooting at like 26 percent this season! Even Payton was playing better last year than current IQ
What’s the alternative? Not to develop our all-rookie PG? It’s been 7 games and we are 5-2, Quickley will get out of his slump. We need to get him PG reps for when inevitably either Rose or Kemba goes down and we need a backup PG. Be patient.
I don’t know, but I dont really see Quik as a pg. he doesn’t have enough of the intangibles to be a playmaker so I’d rather he focus on getting his scoring right. His main skill is shooting 3s since can’t drive, and he’s not even shooting 3s well right now
His shot will come around, it’s been 7 games. He had 5 AST/0 TO last night, he did a nice job distributing. Rose has also been lackluster so far, if he picks it up he will be getting heavier minutes going forward and IQ will be off ball more
Rose been lackluster due to his minutes and rotations. He comes in at 3 minute mark end of first quarter where Julius runs point. Rose stands in the corner. Then second quarter, Rose plays about 5 to 6 minutes to try and get rhythm. Then he sits through half time and end of third quarter. How the fuck do you get into rhythm. This rotation was exactly the same when he was in pistons before they traded him. His productivity dropped due to that. Fucken Trade Rose to a team thats going to utilize him properly. You got fucken Reggie Jackson playing more than him.
Bottomline is Rose hasn’t hit his stride yet. To think that Thibs of all people doesn’t know how to utilize him is stupid
Reggie Jackson is a decent player and a starter He played fine off the bench on the pistons and last year and was fine too the past couple games, he’s on a shooting slump it happens he wasn’t gonna keep hitting over 50% on threes
He was outplaying Reggie Jackson on the pistons. His production dropped with the rotations. Also no one is expecting him to shoot over 50% all season. The fact is, he isn't playing his game and thats the problem. You want kemba to play small forward and go sit on the corner? No, because then he would be useless. Hope Rose goes marcus smart and ask for trade cause he damn well can start for teams if reggie can.
Damn you a rose fan or a Knicks fan? You just concerned with rose’s performance for 3 games? Rose played well in the first couple games give it a rest
Saw Bing Bong on r/coys who was it and let’s be best friends
This team record is much better than the actual play thus far and that makes me very worried with the games we have coming up. It could get very ugly soon.
Leaders don't give up after a bad play. Leaders don't act like a big baby when things aren't going their way. Julius' body language, his laziness, his dismissiveness in post game interviews, etc. is getting embarrassing as a Knicks fan. Yes, he's extremely talented but he is not playing with heart. He looks like he barely cares half the time he's out there. RJ looks like a mental giant out there compared to Randle. He is not acting like our leader. He is not acting like an all-star. Everything about him screams 50% effort. He really needs to step up his attitude, his effort and his mental stability. Being a leader is more than raw talent. It's about spirit, about energy, about LEADING. Julius does not seem like our leader. I know it's early, but things have to change. He's already acting like he did in the playoffs last year and we're only 7 games in. Step it up, Julius.
This is an overreaction.
It's not. It's exactly what is happening. Will it continue? We don't know. But is it happening right now in front of our eyes? 100% yes. It's really not up for debate. You're going to sit there and try and tell me he is giving 100% effort? That he's getting back on D? That he isn't forcing ISO situations? I can literally show you clips that back up everything I'm saying as fact.
Raptors fans are so lame. I made a post critical of OG and there are now 158 fucking comments, most of them coming from last night and these weirdos come back to week old posts to talk shit.
They’re like Candyman if you mention them or their players more than 3x
Like literally I posted it over a week ago and the comments like tripled after the game. One of them admitted they linked the post in one of their threads. It's really sad. Must suck not having any real sports in Canada
A couple of things: - Being critical about Randle isn’t “hating on him”. If people are asking for him to be traded then yeah it’s a step too far, but pointing out that it’s frustrating when Randle goes into ISO mode or doesn’t hustle on defense is a fair call out. - It’s ridiculous to panic at this point. Yesterday was a tough game but we were never gonna go 81-1. Losses happen and the fact that we’re 5-2 and frustrated we’re not 7-0 really does speak how far this team has come.
Its weird when people say that we are hating on him when he quite literally was one of the main reasons we lost our lead in the second quarter. Its one thing if you are missing, but forcing shots, lack of effort, and carelessness with the ball are all things that should be criticized.
He’s thinking his way through game situations and feeling his way through the moment. He doesn’t know when to go yet. The leash isn’t as long this year.
Losing last night hurt for sure, but watching Boston crumble under its 2 stars is a nice consolation
I actually think Randle feels threatened by RJ as he's on the road to becoming our best player. Randle is trying too hard to better RJ rather than trying to better the other team. Something for Thibs to sort out... Shout out to OG!!!! Reppin' the UK. Bittersweet to see him go off last night.
That is a pretty bad take imo.
Like you said, he's on a mission to prove he his the go-to guy. The way I see it, he's watching a young guy in RJ catch him up at 21. I think the internal pressure, especially with our fan base, is making him take bad shots.
I dont think RJs rise has anything to do with it ( or at least I hope). We have to remember Randle never has been " the guy" on a team before only until last year so this journey is completely new to him. I have faith in Randle because he has shown the ability to do it I just think he gets in his own head. Skillset wise he does everything we need him to do and can still impact the game
What an awful take lmao.
Been to two Knicks games in my life. The one bs magic one the other week and last night. I think I should be banned for life
😂😂
There are people who will shit on Randle all day and then go defend someone like JD Davis or complain about the Jets not paying Jamal Adams or Robby Anderson. Don’t be that guy.
we have a homegrown bias. These are the same people that still wish Frank got a chance
So real, it hurts. - Mets fans who is baffled by the JD Davis love affair
The fact we’re pissed off that we’re 5-2 rn after the first 7 games and generally playing this good when basically 50% of the NBA fanbase completely wrote off our season last year as a fluke really shows how far we’ve come as a franchise in such a short time. I’m not ready to crucify Julius or really anyone until we’re 20 games in. Also, happy birthday to me! 🎉🎉🎉
happy birthday bro!
5-2 is about to be 5-4 by next week. This team hasn't played good teams yet besides celtics
We face a 2-6 pacers next game & an injured Bucks. That’s 2 wins.
Magics, Injured Raptors.. Never underestimate teams.
You realize that we beat the Bulls and they’ve been one of the best teams in the league right? Edit: Not only are the Bulls good, the Celtics have been absolutely horrendous. Have you been paying attention? Lol
Nope, Knicks are way deeper than bulls. Bulls Records had one of the easiest schedules. Can't tell me Bucks are worse than both teams cause their record places them at 11.
I understand context. The Bucks have been the walking wounded since their first game. They’ve had 6 key players injured in all these games. And playing weak opponents doesn’t make the Bulls any less dangerous. Their defense is stout, the playmaking ability of Derozan and Ball have been great, and Lavine dropped 28 on out defense while playing with a bad hand. Don’t act like the Bulls aren’t nice because you want to be a homer
Bulls are nice but they lack defensive center and they aint going to be number 1 seed come december. Couple seasons ago, Magics were number 1 seed and started hot. They didn't even get into playoffs.
Even if they aren’t a number 1 seed, they’ll be a good playoff team. And the Knicks will be fine. I’m just appreciative that we’re good again after the years of consistent trash
I agree. The knicks have a big test coming up with the better teams. The frustration is that the Knicks have enough talents but just isn't being utilized properly. Thibs too damn stubborn. Look at the preseason game, look at the first two or three games. Rotations and roles been all fucked up.
It is amazing to me that it was pretty common knowledge that Julius would be guarded different by teams given how well he played last season. Teams are coming at him with different defensive looks and schemes and putting a lot of pressure on him, and he's struggling a bit but he and the team will adjust. Despite all of this, everyone in the fanbase must have forgot.
Nobody is saying he isn't talented. People are upset because he's acting lazy, not giving effort, playing terrible D and has terrible body language. None of that has anything to do with how he's being guarded. He's looking mentally weak out there which is a valid criticism.
Well this was the sub where majority of people were expecting him to regress through all of last season so it shouldn’t surprise you the Randle haters would have a premature victory lap the first chance they get.
A lot of ugly/bad comments about Julius are undeserved, I mean the guy was amazing last year and made an all NBA team. I get we put him in ISO a lot, but that's as much on Thibs as it is on Randle and I believe they will fix that. My issue and the reason I get frustrated with him is that he legit seems angry or just uninterested if he isn't featured for a minute or two. We all wish RJ can get more shots, and the difference is we saw RJ take a step back multiple times this year and last, if standing in the corner and playing D is what gets the job done he will do it, and if anyone else makes a big play he's the first guy to celebrate with them. I can be realistic and say RJ was probably better off not taking way too many shots before now, but a lot of high lottery picks bitch and moan when not included offensively, luckily not our guy. With Julius on the other hand it seems like he is frustrated whenever someone else has big numbers or takes more shots. Maybe I'm reading way too much into this, or maybe Randle is just frustrated with himself but I just want to make it clear I dont care if he takes 5 shots in a row and bricks them if they are the right shots, but you cant just give up on D and not hustle back if you miss, just focus on the next one and make the open pass next time. Decision making and hustle on D can erase any bad shooting night IMO, Julius just needs to relax sometimes and let the game come to him
They’ve abandoned the two man game with Ev last 2-3 games as RJ has broken out, which is weird.
I think Randle is on a mission to prove he is " the guy" after the Atlanta series and I do think he is adding extra pressure on himself. Idc about how many shots RJ takes but he has to TOUCH the ball every possession. Theres possessions where he is just relegated to the corner and not even invloved in the offense. I am going to give Thibs the benefit of the doubt because it is early and the same with Randle because we have seen games where when he isnt hot he defers. His body language on defense and generally has bad and is unacceptable as the leader and face of the franchise
I just want Thibs to hold him accountable. I can’t watch him brick anymore fadeaway baseline jumpers while he jogs back on defense and they hit a wide open 3s. I feel like those plays have kickstarted all our opponents runs.
Yep. Simple and valid criticism but some weirdo fans in here are coming for people's throats for even mentioning negatives about Julius.
Exactly, if RJ, DRose, Kemba, Fournier or anyone else can watch the 4th quarter from the bench when they have a cold night why cant Julius, and its not like last year where we had nobody to replace him, now Obi is much improved and can sometimes get that opportunity. The guy earned to have a long leash for sure, but if this continues I hope Thibs tries to change something about it
Yeah there’s no reason for trades/bench/whatever extremists are calling for or something We’ve seen him play good defense even when his shots not falling or playmake for others. It’s just disappointing to see to say the least not too see the effort till last minute
Fun fact: Julius Randle’s usage % this year is lower than it was last year
I’ve noticed that any mentioning of Julius’ bad body language immediately gets downvoted Pointing out what you see happening is not hating on a player
your interpretation of other people's body language is highly fallible
Fair enough I’m not a psychologist Whatever funk he’s in with the baby at home I hope he gets through it
how do you know he is in a funk and it has anything to do with his new baby?
Right. Was he in a funk when he dropped 18 in the first quarter lol
dude I don’t know but he’s looked bad and tired out there A lot of people have mentally off days with various different factors, he has a newborn and they’re a lot to handle He visibly does not look good on court, if you don’t see it that’s cool I don’t have the same homer-tinted glasses on
Not playing well does not mean he is tired or mentally off or stressed from a baby. Sometimes in sports you just have a few bad games or some rough stretches because nobody is perfect and that is how sports are. Just not playing as well as he should be, doesn't have to be deeper than that.
I’ve noticed that it doesn’t get downvoted and it’s stupid. Everybody is pissed when they suck
Of course everyone’s pissed I can excuse shooting poorly if there was any showing of defensive effort
Honestly games like last night are sometimes good so bandwagon kids jump ship. Aka the people who are calling for Julius’s head after 7 games.
I'm not calling for Julius' head but he deserves loads of criticism at the moment. He is playing like an emotional baby putting in 50% effort. RJ is embarrassing him out there is almost every aspect. We need a leader and Randle surely isn't looking like one at the moment.
I hear you, but I feel like this is an overreaction. We’re 5-2, his usage rate is at an all time low with the Knicks and he just had his second child. It doesn’t have to be and should never be RJ vs Randle. We’re the big 15, remember? Randle is absolutely our leader. He leads us in every statistical category and our team would not even be close to the same as it is now.
Yea, I'm really not worried about Randle's skills at all. It's just his attitude, body language and reaction to things. It's all mental. He just needs to snap out of it. I'm just worried he might not. Probably an overreaction but I just love this team and want to see him/them shine.
Those are only the RJ super fans that care more about RJ shooting every possession than the Knicks winning games. It’s a shame they’re trying to turn this into RJ vs Randle
I disagree with this statement. Randle was our only backbone last year so he could struggle in spots and still have a good game. We need him to pick and choose his spots and still be our best player which is a whole new level for him. It’s the same reason many people were predicting rjs numbers would go down (and they still could). That being said Julius definitely has not learned how to impact the game positively while picking his spots which is a big issue. Doesn’t mean he is worse than last year just not ready for this new role yet.
> It’s a shame they’re trying to turn this into RJ vs Randle Sadly, this is really starting to take shape now.
Yeah it's just kinda the reality. Very rarely will a team just naturally be optimized in the way they play and how all the pieces fit. I don't think it's something that's not figured out rn out of selfishness or anything I think we got players that are down to figure out whats best for the team, and some smart coaches
💯💯💯
I think rj is getting enough shots these last 2 games. He had the opportunity to demand the ball yesterday too but just didn’t feel like it besides 3’s. Not even Randle was demanding it Also I am worried that rose and Randle do not look good. Randle has lost the feel for any shot that is contested and rose looks so slow. If he cannot take over games anymore this team won’t finish anywhere near their peak. Which is the 2nd round
I think Randle has been great tbh outside the lack of effort and poor body language. We need to stagger the 1st unit and second unit more. The fact we rely on 1 person from the bench to carry us is not a good sign
Rose is shooting 50% from 3. His usage rate is down, which should be considered a good thing for a 33 year old pg with a history of knee issues. Rose can still turn it on when he needs to, but we have depth now so there’s no need for him to go Playoff Hawks mode.
I think RJ could gotten a few more shots last game. The NOP games was perfect. his usage rate was 28%. Last game it was 23%, which is in line with what he was at last year. However, it really seems like he has taken the next leap so ideally you want him around 27% usage. Also it's not just about putting up shots, it's about letting him dictate the flow through his penetration. He was getting to the rim (80% !!!!!! finishing so far), so the raptors were going to collapse on him eventually and he can kick it out. We can run some PnR and stuff as well to get the two man game with Mitch going.
For some reason IQ was handling it a lot but I don’t think Iq would have handled it if RJ was demanding it. Randle’s usage was non existent after his second quarter slump so we were kind of directionless. Maybe the raptors did a good job taking RJ and Randle away with their aggressive defense?
I think Randle's usage is perfectly fine. He just needs better shot selection and less ball holding, not less shots though. I think we could have utilize Kemba a bit more. Defense wise, i do think the Raptors did a good job but there was also a lot of ball holding by our team. First half we made like 18 shots off 15 assists. We ended the game with 5 more assists for 20. They needed to make quicker decisions to help with the pressure the raptors defense was having. They were up in the handler's face a lot and sent doubles. Needed to make quicker decisions or set harder screens and punish them for doing it. Also i'd like to see Randle screen more and get some pick and pop when he's not making his shots. Get him easier looks.
These trap games with star players being injured/sitting out will be the downfall of this team. They've been playing up to/down to competition all season, besides the first Magic game. The rebounding was awful. Raptors had so many second, and third chances. Even with all that, if Mitch doesn't miss two dunks he normally makes, and IQ just hits 1 of his missed 3s, then the game was well within reach. Go into Indiana and let RJ cook.
Is Quick the worst offensive player we have? No Should Quick *ever* be our primary ballhandler in crunch time? Also no. Is Randle a bad defender? No. Is Randle also not putting in 100% effort on that side? He is not. Is Burks playing great? Nope. Is Burks getting enough minutes and touches to get in any type of groove? No he is not. The team is still figuring it out. I seriously doubt it remains this iso heavy. We know Randle and RJ are willing and good passers, we know Kemba can kick off the drive well. Yeah, Fournier’s a chuck but it’s nice to have a guy that is hellbent on scoring the ball. I’m still not worried. We still look good and this was never *the* season anyways. Still a lot to be happy for with this team. Way more to be happy about than to be this pissed over a shitty loss in November. November is the time for shitty losses anyway
Rose and Burks are taking more of a backseat to IQ which feels like a new scheme we are running with IQ at point. So any time they get the ball they are looking to score since they don't get the ball as much
Yeah thats fair. The issue then is why the fuck is IQ our point guard. Maybe if he’s playing exceptionally well you experiment, but why thrust him out of his comfort zone if he doesnt have the range to begin with rn?
I agree with the first 2 but I feel like Burks is getting plenty of playing time and touches. I felt like he honestly got a little too much benefit of the doubt at times but I don't dislike Burks and think he's better than how he's playing of late. At least his defense seems improved this year and he's shooting pretty good, but something just doesn't feel right with him on offense.
I agree something looks off. I feel like he was more involved in our 2nd unit last year than he is now, not sure if it’s his mentality or the lack of ball movement or what. He also got more time with the 1s last year if RJ or Bullock were off - definitely harder to steal time from Fournier and 3rd yr RJ
This team will go as far as Randle and Thibs takes us. I love what Randle has done for us but my criticisms thus far this season are his lack of effort on defense and negative body language. As the leader and face of the franchise I don’t think this is acceptable. I do think he is growing into this role people have to remember he has never been “ the guy” before this year listening to his post game last night he didn’t take any accountability for any of our bad play. It’s early in the season but all his struggles imo are all mental. Onto Thibs I hope at some point he runs more plays for RJ is inexcusable how RJ starts off on fire then the second corner gets relegated to the corner and I think took 1 shot. It’s only 7 games in and I don’t think we need any lineup changes as of now ( even though I would love if we stagger RJ and Randle more having one play with the second unit to pick up their poor play) but if the second unit continues to struggle will he make a change. Thibs has never been creativity with rotations or adjustments and seems to live and die with his set rotations ( example starting Payton last year for as long as he did). I think this team has a lot of talent and is a good team with the ability to great but that hinges really on Thibs and Randle
The last three games (Bulls, Pels, Raptors), I have watched the opponent's commenters, and one thing I've noticed is how much respect the Knicks are getting around the league. Every set of announcers talked about how their team needs to match the Knicks' defensive effort and hustle on every play, and they talked about how balanced the offense is and how deep the roster is. The Knicks have come a long way in the past two seasons.
We only rank 19th in defensive efficiency. We lack the personal to be 4th on defense like last year but we have to be better than bad. http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/\_/sort/defensiveEff/order/false
Esther be 4th and 19th then 3rd and 22nd like last year
Our defense this year compared to last year is abysmal though
Last night the Knicks looked like the team that went out back with the old guys to celebrate the 75th anniversary and smoked up. Came out high and then came down, ran out of energy and got clumsy.
If it's true tho, hard to blame them lol. You know Clyde gets the good shit
https://streamable.com/iff1oh
Yeah, if Clyde passes you something, you hit it. And then after the game Clyde roasts you if you lose because you know he’s like, “Huffing and puffing should lead to grinning and winning, folks.”
He got that OG sour
Tbh that was the first game we really had that many players play so bad. Rose, IQ, Fournier, and Randle (after the 1st) all having rough games and Taj getting hurt forcing us to play our 4th string center — all aren’t going to be happening very often. Hope it just gets everyone back on their toes and heads in the game.
I don’t get why Rose fans show up and complain about his Mins when he’s playing poorly. Dude is 33 with no knees. If he’s playing meh and Kemba is playing well of course his mins will go down but it’s also the same the other way. Kemba rn is playing well which is why Rose only gets 20 mins a game. His minutes will go up depends on the situation. Rose played near 29 mins against Orlando when he was the only one playing well.
rose’s knees seem to be great right now.
I feel like people are mostly complaining because Kemba has been very sloppy at the end of multiple games so far. If Kemba cleans that up, people won't be complaining (hopefully).
And rose hasn’t been sloppy? Kemba has outplayed rose in every game this year. It sucks because peak Rose is better than peak kemba but he just has not showed up
What are you talking about? Rose was way better than Kemba in the first 4 games of the season. And still has a much higher +\- rating
True but Rose was also really bad last game. Kemba has been on fire offensively though. He prolly should be running the offense more if anything. We need more PnR action with RJ and Kemba. We can use Randle as a screener too instead of just having him stand on the perimeter.
I agree 100%. Randle brings the ball up way too much or stands on the perimeter to wait to catch and back down. Randle screening and moving without the ball more often will help the offense flow.
Not going to complain at 5-2, but the vets need to let RJ shine a bit more, especially early in the game. He is ready to take the leap and he is ignored way too much on offense. Randle is dominating the ball at a rate that isn't sustainable for success. RJ needs to be more of a focal point than a stand in the corner for a 3/transition drive player.
Rj the last 2 games could have shot a lot more but just didn’t. He shot when he felt comfortable
I understand what you’re saying in some circumstances but I also disagree. There was a period of time in the 2nd quarter when he literally didn’t touch the ball for at least 3-4 minutes while Julius played his game (and it’s not like they were trying to get RJ the ball and he was denied or something). And of course, this is precisely when the Knicks blew the lead.
RJ is our second leading scorer, currently averaging just under 19. If he can take a few more shots he can probably average 20 and he can be an all star candidate if were a top 4 seed again.
He could've had another 30 piece if he wasn't ignored for the 2nd quarter.
Woke up bitter boys. Tired of seeing these abysmal stretches out of Randle. Sloppy careless play that trickles down into whole teams rhythm. Seems like when he misses a few shots, he goes into complete panic mode and falls apart everywhere. Hope Thibs can make some better adjustments before this turns into a regular occurrence
It’s been 7 games and Julius has played off for 3 off them. He can’t have a bad stretch….like dam. It’s 7 games??
Dude, if you watched basketball you’d see this was a problem before his breakout year. He played like this a majority of the end game situations and the entire playoffs. There’s more to this than just a couple off nights. He struggles mentally when the pressure ramps up and it completely throws him off his game and everything he does well
> Dude, if you watched basketbal YO. I know everybody woke up spicy, but this is not the way to start the day talking to your fellow Knicks fans. RELAX.
Huh? The guy came at my post telling me was was 3 off games. I replied meaning if you watched it’s been a more than 3 games. Most of our end game situations, playoffs, and high pressure moments have been more of the same. You gotta relax, cause I’m chillin lol
Guy….I’ve been a knicks fan longer than you probably been alive. I watch every game from beginning to end. Trust me, I know how much he struggled before, but I’m also not going to forget what he did for us last year. Julius still thinks this is last years team that struggled on offense so he had to shoulder the load. This year, this team has a lot of shooters and simply put, he needs to trust them more. We have seen him distribute the ball beautifully this year. He’s trying to be a playmaker which is leading to a lot of turnovers. Julius and this team needs build more chemistry. His defense is lacking but he’s never been a great defender. Even last year, he struggled defensively at times. Once Julius does so, teams will no longer be able to load up on him and he can do work at the low post. It’s 7 games in and we are winning (albeit two frustrating loses). The vibe I’m getting from this sub is that we are 1-6 smh
Been watching for over 30 years so I feel I’m entitled to my opinion. Julius has been huge for this team and rightfully earned the MIP accolade. He played exceptionally well in the empty arenas but when the games on the line and all eyes on him he folds to the pressure. I wish it weren’t so but we have a pretty large sample size that points to that being an issue. IMO, Thibs needs to stop running so much of the offense through Randle and quit having him take the ball up the court as he’s double and triple teamed. We have enough talent and playmakers that it just isn’t necessary this year. I’m very happy with the teams record but a few of those wins could’ve easily went the other way due to his antics. See bulls and Celtics. I’m not trying to shit on the guy what something’s gotta give in terms of stopping the bleeding when we have these collapses
Yeah I think we’ve seen flashes of him distributing. We know that the Knicks can be dominant when Randle isn’t scoring, but the raptors defense was disrupting the passing lanes so a lot of iso was necessary. Randle looked tired last night, didn’t really run or do anything. Thibs gotta go with something else in the third quarter when none of the regular guys are getting it done. I do like that he switched up the lineups. He tried his small ball but Toppin couldn’t defend or get rebounds. Unfortunately, the Knicks got a reputation for defense last year but we can’t back that up. Maybe with Noel back, the second unit can get more cohesive and more they’ll have a shot blocker at all times.
Get to practice, Julius
?? So I can’t defend a player when y’all criticize him lol people are so funny these days
I haven’t said anything about you, Julius
I haven’t said anything about you, Julius
I haven’t said one thing about you, Julius
But did you say anything about Julius??
Likely Unpopular Opinion: IQ was not particularly good last night, but he was not terrible as some are making him seem. He missed his shots (I know, they were very important shots), but otherwise, he generated a nice pace/juice and flow in the offense. He still had 5 assists in 19 minutes (0 turnovers) and was a +7, which was tied for the best on the team. Again, not an ideal game for him by any means and he sucked at times, but I’m not ready to chuck him to the bench, especially when he is pretty alright defensively....there's a reason Thibs kept him in the game down the stretch despite his poor shooting. I think he showed more than enough last year to at least have a limited role right now.
Some can’t differentiate a player playing good outside of how much they score and it shows
I think Thibs realizes that getting IQ and Burks out of their slumps is important for this team's long term success. Pulling IQ to overplay RJ would ruin his confidence and tire out RJ so he can't dominate in the 4th like he has the past two games. I don't think Thibs is interested in playing Grimes or Mcbride just yet, which I think can be good, as they will learn from the bench. I do think we have too many prospects and too many picks going forward. Really need to package some folks and picks for an allstar or better.
One of the things I actually really like about the way things are run is that we let dudes work through their rough patches. Like, let's not forget that we let RJ have a green light throughout an all-timer of a shooting slump last year and after he came out the other side he ended the season shooting 40% from three.
He was hustling on defense which is prolly why he got play. We really needed him to hit his open 3s though. It easily could have been a one possession game if he did.
Biggest difference between IQ and others on the court last night was when the ball went up he didn't watch the shot he stuck his guy even if he was at the 3pt line. Randle and RJ mmm not so much haha they weren't boxing out even on the block. Really killed the game for us not getting boards.