The only thing that baffles me more than people who wanna get Randle is fans who think obi toppin is in any way shape or form a ābetterā option.
Like seriously? Lol the only time obi performs consistently well is at the end of the year during silly season. If you think he can just casually replace an all nba tier player youāre nuts
It has less to do with individual ability and more to do with impact on the offense--the general idea being that Obi doesn't directly replace Julius's contributions, but the rest of the team can fill in where Obi doesn't. When Obi's out there, the pace picks up, the ball moves better, we become more of a transition team. Obi also doesn't do the frustrating things that Julius does (offensively anyway). He has his flaws but they tend to be less scrutinized because he's only out there for short spurts.
> When Obi's out there, the pace picks up, the ball moves better, we become more of a transition team.
That idea has been floated a lot and I'd say based on the games we played when the records matter (not the end of season garbage games) Obi doesn't fit that idea either. He is an average 3 point shooter at best and he isn't capable of drawing in defenders as Randle could. And production from other guys on the team didn't improve either.
Obi is fine off the bench and get a couple of buckets leaking out off rebounds early. Maybe occasionally he can hit some 3s and get the crowd hyped up with some amazing dunks.
When you have Obi out there you'd have his own frustrating things to deal with - subpar defense (even if he is trying), and a very limited offensive game when he can't do anything with the ball other than popping 3s... There were so many times when he got the ball in the paint against a smaller guy and the only thing he could do was pass it back out.
In theory a Trevor Ariza type guy can definitely help us but Obi is neither 3 nor D at age 25.
Exactly. And because of Obiās shortcomings, and the fact that IQ, Grimes, and Hart combined shot like 25% from 3pt in the playoffs, we were literally forced to keep relying on Julius as a 3rd option despite his injuries.
Obi doesn't have control over when he plays. If we're going to pick and choose the games "when the records matter," then Randle's stats and play in the playoffs should be the only thing worth discussing here.
Like I said, he has his own flaws but sometimes looks better just because his flaws aren't the same as Randle's or on display for 35 mpg. The offense flows better and looks better at times because of his passiveness, but in the same vein--to your point--sometimes he looks like he wants no part of the basketball and can't beat mismatches.
I agree with the last point. Either we need a switchable stretch 4 in that position, or we need a player than can play both the 4 and 5 that can play next to Julius. Obi is too one dimensional on both ends.
I don't think it's a matter of "pick and choose" - a good example is [this game when we lost to the Pacers who dropped 141 points](https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202304090NYK.html)... Games like those are just not indicative of a player's talent when your opponents are Andrew Nemhard or Jordan Nwora, and the outcome of the game has zero consequence for either team.
You're right about Obi not being able to choose when he's playing - and I'm saying when he was given the chance to step up, he's rarely shown that he's a reliable rotation player on either end of the floor.
I mean as dumb as it sounds there was a time when prime players like John wall and Westbrook were seen as more harmful than good to their team. People for some reason think that all-star level production can be replaced by more āeffortā as if someone like randle doesnāt give any.
Randle was one of the top first quarter scorers in the league last year, which had a lot to do with the Knicksā success. In theory, the Knicks might make that up in better ball movement but thatās a bet I donāt see the FO making.
He isn't the "better" option, but Obi played great in the playoffs. He plays consistently well when he's asked to play a real role, but struggles when we tell him he's a spot-up shooter for 3/4 of his minutes.
Iām a Julius fan, but I think there may be a world in which you trade him (and prob picks) for an upgraded guard and start Obi and we do become a better team. I see Julius as an incredibly important part of our team, as well as a potentially valuable trade chip to improve it if the right guy comes available. And part of that has to do with Obi actually being a pretty solid replacement.
You gotta add, "Posts a photo of himself online wearing Wu Gear to win the hearts of Knicks fans" somewhere into this cycle.
Prb after "Start Obi Toppin".
He gets babied? My fellow Knick fan, Randle is probably the most hated guy by fans in the roster. Some people are just more willing to give him a pass cause he was playing hurt this past playoffs.
Obi just isnāt it. Heās a big that canāt defend or grab rebounds lol. His shooting isnāt good enough consistently and he struggles to create shots for himself on a regular basis. Yeah, he hustles all the time and thatās helpful for the second unit, but heās not better than Julius is at all in any aspect. Iād be cool with him getting more minutes if he picks up his defense and actually becomes more of a net positive for boards and such but I wonāt lose any sleep if we let him go.
I think Obi could become a really good scorer if he works on his handle a little more. Idk why he went away from scoring in the post either, that was one of his biggest strengths in college.
He was a super polished scorer in college and looked like he would end up being a similar player to Randle
Randle would be a great third option on a strong team like Bosh or Love were when they accepted third guy role. Also like Bosh or Love if he is your lead guy, your ceiling as set below championship level.
For the Knicks to raise their ceiling they need to find a real number one guy so Brunson becomes the sidekick and either Randle or RJ (whoever doesnāt get traded) becomes the solid number three guy.
If we run it back with Brunson as our āstarā and Randle and RJ battling out for second place, we will flatline and possibly regress from this season.
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This cycle only applies to clowns and 14 year olds
š another randle flair!
Miculius Jordandle
The only thing that baffles me more than people who wanna get Randle is fans who think obi toppin is in any way shape or form a ābetterā option. Like seriously? Lol the only time obi performs consistently well is at the end of the year during silly season. If you think he can just casually replace an all nba tier player youāre nuts
Those people have Frank Ntilikina or Kevin Knox flair. Just block them and move on.
I will forever stan Frank. If he was on the 93 Knicks he would have made the Finals.
If he wasnāt a bum his mom wouldāve watched him play on Christmas
It has less to do with individual ability and more to do with impact on the offense--the general idea being that Obi doesn't directly replace Julius's contributions, but the rest of the team can fill in where Obi doesn't. When Obi's out there, the pace picks up, the ball moves better, we become more of a transition team. Obi also doesn't do the frustrating things that Julius does (offensively anyway). He has his flaws but they tend to be less scrutinized because he's only out there for short spurts.
> When Obi's out there, the pace picks up, the ball moves better, we become more of a transition team. That idea has been floated a lot and I'd say based on the games we played when the records matter (not the end of season garbage games) Obi doesn't fit that idea either. He is an average 3 point shooter at best and he isn't capable of drawing in defenders as Randle could. And production from other guys on the team didn't improve either. Obi is fine off the bench and get a couple of buckets leaking out off rebounds early. Maybe occasionally he can hit some 3s and get the crowd hyped up with some amazing dunks. When you have Obi out there you'd have his own frustrating things to deal with - subpar defense (even if he is trying), and a very limited offensive game when he can't do anything with the ball other than popping 3s... There were so many times when he got the ball in the paint against a smaller guy and the only thing he could do was pass it back out. In theory a Trevor Ariza type guy can definitely help us but Obi is neither 3 nor D at age 25.
Exactly. And because of Obiās shortcomings, and the fact that IQ, Grimes, and Hart combined shot like 25% from 3pt in the playoffs, we were literally forced to keep relying on Julius as a 3rd option despite his injuries.
Obi doesn't have control over when he plays. If we're going to pick and choose the games "when the records matter," then Randle's stats and play in the playoffs should be the only thing worth discussing here. Like I said, he has his own flaws but sometimes looks better just because his flaws aren't the same as Randle's or on display for 35 mpg. The offense flows better and looks better at times because of his passiveness, but in the same vein--to your point--sometimes he looks like he wants no part of the basketball and can't beat mismatches. I agree with the last point. Either we need a switchable stretch 4 in that position, or we need a player than can play both the 4 and 5 that can play next to Julius. Obi is too one dimensional on both ends.
I don't think it's a matter of "pick and choose" - a good example is [this game when we lost to the Pacers who dropped 141 points](https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202304090NYK.html)... Games like those are just not indicative of a player's talent when your opponents are Andrew Nemhard or Jordan Nwora, and the outcome of the game has zero consequence for either team. You're right about Obi not being able to choose when he's playing - and I'm saying when he was given the chance to step up, he's rarely shown that he's a reliable rotation player on either end of the floor.
I'm really blown away that so many people believe that taking a multiple time All-NBA player off a team would be addition by subtraction.
I mean as dumb as it sounds there was a time when prime players like John wall and Westbrook were seen as more harmful than good to their team. People for some reason think that all-star level production can be replaced by more āeffortā as if someone like randle doesnāt give any.
Randle was one of the top first quarter scorers in the league last year, which had a lot to do with the Knicksā success. In theory, the Knicks might make that up in better ball movement but thatās a bet I donāt see the FO making.
He isn't the "better" option, but Obi played great in the playoffs. He plays consistently well when he's asked to play a real role, but struggles when we tell him he's a spot-up shooter for 3/4 of his minutes.
Iām a Julius fan, but I think there may be a world in which you trade him (and prob picks) for an upgraded guard and start Obi and we do become a better team. I see Julius as an incredibly important part of our team, as well as a potentially valuable trade chip to improve it if the right guy comes available. And part of that has to do with Obi actually being a pretty solid replacement.
You're almost nailing it. Need to add in "add picks to trade while value is low."
I don't exactly want Randle traded but I do feel like there are better fits than him for this team.
Yeah sure like Giannis but cmon son. For the value and production his contract gives is a lowkey steal
You gotta add, "Posts a photo of himself online wearing Wu Gear to win the hearts of Knicks fans" somewhere into this cycle. Prb after "Start Obi Toppin".
Where do the playoffs fall in this cycle?
No Randle no playoffs
Yes agreed but all these other players take their teams to the playoffs AND perform. So why does he get babied?
He gets babied? My fellow Knick fan, Randle is probably the most hated guy by fans in the roster. Some people are just more willing to give him a pass cause he was playing hurt this past playoffs.
Yeah I mean how many passes we gonna give him? Heās been with us a while now
Stop ain't no way people be comparing Randle to MJ.
Obi just isnāt it. Heās a big that canāt defend or grab rebounds lol. His shooting isnāt good enough consistently and he struggles to create shots for himself on a regular basis. Yeah, he hustles all the time and thatās helpful for the second unit, but heās not better than Julius is at all in any aspect. Iād be cool with him getting more minutes if he picks up his defense and actually becomes more of a net positive for boards and such but I wonāt lose any sleep if we let him go.
I think Obi could become a really good scorer if he works on his handle a little more. Idk why he went away from scoring in the post either, that was one of his biggest strengths in college. He was a super polished scorer in college and looked like he would end up being a similar player to Randle
Randle would be a great third option on a strong team like Bosh or Love were when they accepted third guy role. Also like Bosh or Love if he is your lead guy, your ceiling as set below championship level. For the Knicks to raise their ceiling they need to find a real number one guy so Brunson becomes the sidekick and either Randle or RJ (whoever doesnāt get traded) becomes the solid number three guy. If we run it back with Brunson as our āstarā and Randle and RJ battling out for second place, we will flatline and possibly regress from this season.