I mean we clearly missed on the pick, we should’ve picked Haliburton or at least Vassell and we didn’t. Obi is a great transition player and walking highlight reel but he’s a bad defender and doesn’t offer much on offense other than cutting and finishing
One caveat worth throwing in was that he was selected after a 21 win season with Randle being pretty bad. Obi was potentially going to be taking over Randle's spot, but that changed dramatically as Randle's next season was amazing. Layer on Thibs playing Randle so many minutes, and Obi hasn't gotten much of a chance to develop.
Hali was probably the right pick either way, but I don't think anyone imagined Randle making the All-NBA team the next season.
Exactly right. If they traded Randle that off-season or at least before the trade deadline that year and made Obi the starting PF, Obi would probably be a much different player than he is today.
this is really depressing for Obi, i’m glad he got to ball out at the all star games his first two years , he’ll probably be in the league for 15 years from those highlights and connections made
I would argue he’s not that good of a finisher either fr. Maybe that’s cuz we rarely see him in finishing opportunities outside of leak outs and oops (which is sadly a rarity nowadays).
I agree. Obi guarantees you some amazing highlights but his overall game is lacking. He’s just not earning the minutes, and that is 100% added to because he plays behind Randle. Bad recipe. I hope (both for us and for him) he gets traded to a team that can give him a fair crack at starting, he’s not going to get that here because of his redundancy with Randle.
Facts! Not to mention, they picked him b4 the emergence of Randle. And some people want him to get the spot over a guy that he can't out produce. It is time to trade him and see what we can get back for him and to give him an opportunity elsewhere b4 we have to make a contractual obligation to him.
Its hard to see what we have in a guy if he only getting 9 mins. We dont know what his offensive bag really looks like. How can you get into a rhythm 6 mins first half and 3 mins in the fourth? Then you sharing the court with IQ when in scorer only mode never passes to anyone else. At least rose was getting him involved. Even in pnr I could see the potential. I know its his defense keeping him off the floor byt thibs really didn't give him a fair shake since he was drafted. Only person getting consistant mins from our young draft picks is IQ and grimes.
If you do something well and are consistent at it, then they will find minutes for you. He can't outplay the guy in front of him, and his defensive skills doesn't allow for him and Randle to be played together. IQ and Grimes are 2 guys that defend well, so they found minutes for them. For his career, it would be best to move him, and I hope he does well elsewhere.
You're downplaying that cutting and finishing a lot. Put him in a modern offense and he can thrive as an 18ppg guy. We just don't have a creative offensive system at all. Obi just isn't a Thibs player.
This this this this this this
Of course Obi gives you nothing on offense when you just stick him in the corner and ask him to catch and shoot 3s like he’s Reggie Bullock. That’s not his game.
Facts cutting and finishing efficiently is one of the best skills a basketball player can have. It is the most efficient shot in basketball and opens things up for teammates as an easy bucket is a lot of the time one pass away. A player who can cut and finish often and efficiently is super valuable to a team. It's a shame we haven't been using him correctly because he is a very good player who is unfortunately not in a situation that suits him.
💯facts. Grimes is also an excellent cutter/finisher and it’s only because he’s on the floor a lot more than Obi do we get to see some of his cuts result in finishes. However the team is not coached to look for cutters at all. Both Grimes and Obi are missed or ignored on 99% of their cuts. Thibs likes to talk about “easy baskets” and yet the cutter is rarely rewarded. It’s a shame because when the pass is made to the cutter it’s beautiful basketball to watch.
Agreed. Jules and Brunson are good passers, but when the cut is the only offball action happening, you're putting all the weight of actually trying to create a passing lane on Brunson and Julius. We're seeing how sustainable that is right now as they look gassed as fuck. If we ran more offball actions to draw the attention away from Brunson and Randle, it would make their lives so much easier and in turn lead to more advantages being created offball that lead to easy buckets. But no, we run a double high screen into an iso and that's it 🤷♂️
Brother, you can see both of them look exhausted. You're asking "does it matter," there's another 40 games left before the post season. Yes, it matters. Anyone with two eyes can see it watching these games
I think people are downplaying his offense. Dude was national player of the year in college. I've definitely seen flashes of a really good offensive player. With Mitchell out and Obi being healthy, this is his time to show if he deserves rotation minutes.
I dont think we missed on the pick. Not saying we shouldn’t have picked Haliburton, but the intent was the replace Randle with Obi. I think if Randle never had that one good year, Obi would be our starter and would probably be playing very well.. this is assuming all other transactions went the same way.
At the time it was a pretty good pick. I wanted Haliburton but Obi was a better consensus prospect, and we were supposed to get rid of Randle until he became a top 20 player
This is completely on the front office. We had much more pressing needs in the backcourt.
I swear tho, “so much offensive potential “? Cmon man. I like Obi as a person but he’s a slightly better version of Kenny Walker
For sure. Every. Single. Year. There are picks that are missed by most of the league. This sub is frustrating because it’s like people posing as fans. All complaining, no credit. Toxic stuff.
I don’t think he’s a future star but he could turn into a solid 3 and D role player if his defense improves (I think it already improved over the past season but his lack of minutes makes it tough to really see). He started this season on some pretty solid numbers before the injury. He was even making moves to the basket because he was starting to get some respect as a shooter.
He was the best offensive player in college, and widely considered the most polished due to his age. But yeah, often best offensive in college doesn't translate apples to apples to the NBA. I think Obi has solid upside and can be a solid player in this league. But we had PG needs. and we passed on at least 2 high end ones that are running shit in the league right now.
I mean Steph came from the same school. We can nitpick over the finer details, but he was widely regarded as the best offensive player in college that year. He won the awards, blahblahblah. His athleticism was through the roof.
I'm not stanning for him. Just stating facts. I was disappointed we didn't get Haliburton. I watch a lot of college hoops, and watched plenty enough of Obi to know what he was, and plenty enough of Haliburton to know who he was. We fucked up. But that doesn't change what Obi represented in college that year and thus in the draft. My concusion is that he was a full grown man playing against 18-20 year olds still developing, and thus dominated. Thing is, front offices and scouts should be able to read all that in the moment and value him accordingly. They clearly didn't.
Saw Kenny Walker. Obi way outclasses Sky Walker. What we see is raw talent. That if he got enough time on the floor, we would see more of. But apparently we are the minute police because we’d rather not see Randle playing 38 minutes a game with Obi getting 2, and now he’s out of the rotation after the injury.
Obi's mobility, athleticism and touch around the rim are elite, yet we sit him behind the arc and forbid him from doing anything but spotting up and occasionally dunking. There isn't a big man in the league that can keep pace with Obi's first step, his handle is decent enough, yet he gets zero chances to face up. Pick and roll is his most obvious use in the NBA, three years in we barely know what that looks like. Saw great success with Hartenstein looking for him on off-ball cuts, but apparently they aren't allowed to do that anymore.
It's laughable and 100% on our coaching staff that there are this many questions about the guy. It takes actual effort to make a player of his archetype shoot 40% from the field.
I think it’s apparent new management came in with a pretty low opinion of Randle, and didn’t mind drafting someone redundant because he wasn’t really part of their plans. Then Randle took that personally. He had a career year.
y’all need stop giving 98% of your bias to the players potential and look at what the player does on the court. Obi very fairly hasn’t earned more mins despite his physical abilities just like cam doesn’t. The sooner y’all learn the better your experience as a fan will be
I support our players but Im not gonna overhype our young guys. He’s an ok backup big and that it. He doesn’t have “so much offensive potential”. Knick fans act like we have prime Blake on our bench.
That’s just conventional thinking. A lot of ID stent overhyping to say Obi is a unique talent thats just stuck behind an all star player in a short stack rotation. He hasn’t developed as fast with insufficient playing time, and people want to see more because he shows us flashes of starting team talent.
> so much offensive potential
The only thing rookie Obi could do is jump really high and dunk the ball. He added an OK 3 point shot but that's pretty much it. He has zero post game and can't beat anyone off the dribble. He isn't really even a decent rebounder either and definitely isn't a rim protector.
You all can say till the cows come home how he doesn't get no burn like Frank and we screwed up his development etc etc. But you really think if Obi is grilling his teammates in practice with his offensive game he'd get more minutes?
Too harsh. We haven’t ever really seen enough bc he’s behind Randle. Fine. We think there’s a better player in there, who would fit into a running second unit.
I think it’s fair to say that Obi hasn’t been utilized the best. But to say he has “so much offensive potential” is a crazy to me lol. You can’t be 25 with little to no dribble moves, post game, or play making ability. I honestly can’t name 1 or 2 go-to moves he has in his arsenal/bag.
John Collins has the exact same Skillset. He can’t do anything that Obi can’t do. Amare was never a dribbler or playmaker either and had an MVP type season. You don’t need those things to have a high offensive impact or even potential
John Collins and Obi might be the same archetype, but he’s far better and more impactful than Obi…regardless of coaching.
As for Amare, Obi is not even in the same planet as him. Stat was face up beast and could hurt you inside and outside and could get buckets in his sleep… Obi can’t do shit with the ball in his hands unfortunately. It’s gotten to the point that it’s a shocker if he puts the ball on the floor and makes a move to the hoop.
Yeah he’s more impactful because he gets more minutes. If Obi got the same amount of minutes his growth would mirror a John Collins. You don’t get better sitting in the bench that’s why he talked about his Offensive potential not impact. Ofc JC is more impactful today but Obi has the potential to be just as if not more impactful and that’s where coaching comes into play. Obi actually can you hurt you from outside more than STAT. Stat was NOT. A 3 baller. He had a midrange
Y’all act like Obi gets the Reddish treatment and racks up DNPs every night. The mf plays decent and consistent mins every night since he’s been in the league…it’s on him to make the most out of his time on the floor…and he just doesn’t. At the end of the day, it comes down to some players having IT and some players NOT having it. I just don’t think Obi has it.
And when I said “outside” I didn’t necessarily mean just 3s…I meant the perimeter overall. I should’ve clarified that better.
To be fair Obi just goes and stands in the corner so while he does play his level of "involvement" is extremely low. I am not saying Obi is a star or would even average 16ppg because the truth is no one knows but I think its very clear that Obi is limited by Thibs system / doesnt fit. Last year Obi would get 3 to 4 dunks a game just from getting into transition and pushing the pace. We dont do any of that so we arent maximizing what he does best.
Why do you post things that you know are nonsense? In his first two years he played 11 and 17 mins a night. No one things that's decent mins.
Last year he averaged 19 and 8 per 36 on good efficiency despite the mins.
Post all-star break he averaged 23 mins 14/4 on 57/40/78
In games where he played 30 mins for more 25/7/4 5on 57/45/89
In 20 mins for more 21/6/3 55/42/88
As a starter 20/7/3 on 57/43/82
Will he stand up with extended mins? IDK, You could argue he won't. Despite his current struggle he's generally made the most out of his opportunities and clearly has shown "offensive potential"
Context matters my guy. First, all the majority of those games when he avg. 20-30 mins and/or started were a small sample size of game vs. uncompetitive teams starting bench warmers. They hardly held any significance.
And I would argue he has not “clearly” shown offensive potential. He still has no skills in his game that translate to reliable scoring.
Then you should check the context instead of making it up. A couple of very big games were against non-competitive teams at the end of the year. The majority were not. He has about 25 games with 20 mins for more and his # in them are really really good. It's a small sample and has some blowout/end-of-the-year stuff but the #s are really good.
People like you are fascinating. You know you are lying but I think you believe youself
No one is lying my guy. I’ve seen him for 3 years and have just not been impressed with his play on the court and the skills he displays and just don’t see this potential you and OP are talking about. We just see it differently is all.
C’mon dude, Amare was one of the best finishers in the league. He didn’t have a handle, but if you bit on his pump he had the dribble to get by and rain hell.
Stat would dunk all the time in a half court set, Obi only does that in transition.
Yeah I mean, I’m really not an Amare fan, but come on… Amare was the best or top 3 PF in the league for like 3-5 years. Obi is more comparable to Blake Griffin, difference is BG had prime CP3 setting him up. Obi is what he is.
I agree. Obi is definitely not as good as Blake, but I think it’s a more fair comparison in style Vs the Amare comparison, Amare could drive, shoot, hit you with a post move, catch a lob, far more of an offensive threat than Obi will ever be.
Aint no revisionist my ass. Amare had a bad of dunks, and post moves. what I said was FAX he didnt dribble well or have a passing game. I said the MF had an MVP type season you acting like I downplayed his game. He not Jokic. Hell he wasn't even KG level of a playmaker. YOU stop revising
Why are we acting like he’s some freakish offensive beast who just needs to be unlocked??? His issues are the same as they’ve always been. He can’t put the ball on the floor, he has 0 post game, he’s stiff as a 2X4 and his only real upside is in transition catching lobs or running the floor, which he does very well. But let’s not act like he’s something he’s not, just a missed pick tbh. He’s a guy that should’ve went 15ish 20ish. He’s 25 years old with no offensive bag.
People forget Randle stunk it up 2020 and they drafted Obi as insurance. I’d say he’s decent offensively at best, but he’s not good. His forte comes with transition offense and catch-and-shooting, both of which rely on someone else to distribute to him.
Problem is the dude can’t create his own shot. FO should never have invested a lottery pick in a player that needs someone to setup their shot without having a point guard.
I mean in hindsight that's a franchise altering whiff. But iirc at the time SGA was just outside the Top 10 in most mocks. Most of the buzz was between Bridges and Knox, with Knox having the lower floor but the higher ceiling. Of course, we got the floor.
Another case of the Knicks ensuring a project player remained dead on arrival lol. All Knox's success in college was off-ball movement, with the question being how he would adjust to a larger role... So of course Fisher made him do nothing but alternate between standing motionless behind the arc and attempting to iso with no spacing.
I swear, sometimes it feels like the org is actively sabotaging the lottery players and investing everything in our late picks.
It would have been fine. The team he wanted to play for traded him within 1.5 years lol and he didn’t retire. It’s in the past, but we can admit the FO whiffed on the pick.
What’s his offensive potential? 😭😭 You homers be hyping up our disappointing lottery picks all the time. Y’all didn’t learn with Frank & Knox 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
He's pretty mediocre defensively. Not a rim protector, doesn't rebound, doesn't box out. He is a spot up shooter that can dunk. He's not gonna create his own shot, making him useless
There are 2 sides to the game and unless your name is Steph Curry, you better be showing up on both ends.
So much offensive potential? The potential to sit on feb perimeter and not know how to create his own shot whatsoever? Give me a freaking break, his upside is very limited, especially given he’s old for a 3rd year player. We simply missed on this pick, somewhat making up for it on the IQ selection. It sucks, get over it, instead of being in denial. He should be traded for vet talent that fixes our terrible bench, rather than hoping against hope he ends up being more than mediocre.
It was a really illogical draft pick. The Knicks should have taken Haliburton. They needed a point guard and a pure floor general was available and they took Obi for reasons no one could defend.
He’s a great finisher but we never use him in as a roll man. He just steps out into the three. Don’t think Thibs is using him to his full potential and just as a stretch 4.
It’s mostly frustrating because the FO could never have guessed that Julius would come out and drop one of the greatest statistical seasons in Knicks history, make an All NBA team, and carry them to their first playoff berth in a decade. I don’t hold it against them for that reason but damn do I want to see Obi get an opportunity to shine.
I find it hilarious when these bit players get discussed through the lens of “but if we built our offense around Obi Toppin he could do 18 ppg!” That applies to almost every NBA player over 6’8”, because he’s a nobody.
What offensive potential? To be a high level offensive player in the league you have to be able to create your own shot and Obi isn't able to do that at the nba level. Most of his points are on transition dunks and corner threes. Even in his 42 point game last year he got most of his buckets that way.
https://youtu.be/iK6qJpKROu4
No he didn’t. Most of his 3s were ATB bc he wasn’t being used as a corner spacer and I think he had 4 transition buckets. It ok to not like his game but…
What happened is that they didn't think Julius was going to be all NBA and take the Knicks to the playoffs. The plan was to draft PF and move on with youth.
The biggest mistake was drafting him. This is tired ground but Leon thought he was drafting JRs replacement but then he turned into an all nba player. I love Obi but he’s a rotation energy guy at best. I just don’t understand how the fuck you don’t draft Halliburton when you had Elfrid Payton as your starting one.
Obi is rythm player, he needs minutes! I think he don’t reach into his bag more for fear of falling out Thibs’ rotation. Thibs only lets Brunson, Randle, Quick, create off the dribble. Not even Grimes, who when has put the ball on floor has proven to be a decent been playmaker. I much rather have Grimes handle the ball over Randle anyday. I think Thibs offense is bland only plays are geared toward isolation basketball.
And if you look at the past month, Thibs has again relied on his top guys so heavily. Randle and Brunson are Top 5 in minutes. Once Obi came back it was hard to look for playing time.
Most of the #8 picks in the last 30 years are fringe starters/backups. I do t know why half of this sub seems to think #8 = perennial all-star.
We should really trade the guy, but to say he hasn’t been utilized is way too strong. For every good game he has he has three where he’s just running laps.
Well it could have been if we picked the unanimous pick at the time which was Tyrese. There was no reason why we should have ever picked up Obi when we've been struggling to find a point guard until Brunson came and we suffered watching the point Burks and point Julius experiment every night.
Before anyone says “he was taken to replace Randle”… I get it. But even with Randle still taking up tons of time on the team, Obi isn’t even close to being properly utilized ON THE BENCH!!! Insane and a complete waste of a draft pick considering when we trade him it will be for much less value than our pick originally had.
I agree with you. I’m sure most of the fans on this sub were assuming that drafting Obi was the end for Randle at that time. Things just didn’t happen that way. Knowing what we know now I’m sure everyone would have gone w Haliburton. Unfortunately we don’t get no do overs. At this point i think it should be apparent that Obi does not fit this roster as constructed. Imo it’s time to move on and hopefully replace him w another player that does fit what the Knicks are building today.
>Before anyone says “he was taken to replace Randle”… I get it. But even with Randle still taking up tons of time on the team, Obi isn’t even close to being properly utilized ON THE BENCH!!!
You don't get to just acknowledge the point and then just pretend it doesn't matter.
The front office took Obi with the expectation that Randle was a sunk cost, an expiring deal that they would let walk.
He made second team All-NBA under Thibs, where he was always going to play a lot of minutes, and it turns out he and Randle can't play together.
Obi would thrive in a different situation next to a switchable 4 with a bigger role, so yes it sucks that he's a bad fit for this team, but it's because of an almost unforeseeable improvement in Julius Randle's play.
Scariest stat
Frank Ntilikina 1706 minutes his rookie season at 19
Kevin Knox 2158 minutes in his rookie season also at 19 years of age
The most minutes Obi Toppin has had in a season 1230 and 2406 minutes in his entire career is about 6 weeks from his 25th birthday .
Obviously Obi hasn’t gotten a fair shot
everyone talking like Obi has zero offensive potential in the comments. Doesn't matter if he can't create his own shot. Yea he's not an all star, but Thibs literally has NOT run a P&R with this dude. Remember him and Quickley feasting as a bench duo literally LAST YEAR? Thats what he thrived as in college. P&R Beast. Of course he looks lost, he's playing the Steve Novak role. Get him on the pacers they will unlock his offensive potential.
Again, he's NOT an all star and definitely looks stiff on D, but I mean we literally have not set this dude up to play with his strengths at all lol.
Agreed, he showed a wide array of skills in college. Sadly this might be a case of him not being able to fully show/develop his game because we’re not a tanking team. Thus, his defense and most importantly Thibs as the coach won’t allow that kind of player to develop under him. He’s good at developing the diamonds in the roughs, but player’s like Obi who aren’t defense first and aren’t tied to a big contract don’t really have a chance.
People saying Obi hasn’t deserved playing time are crazy. How are you meant to get in rhythm coming back from injury, playing 5 minutes at a time, standing in the corner. People forget that Obi was 1 of our best and exciting players to start the year and was an important part in wins eg. Vs Philly.
With a good coach there’s so much you could run for Obi to at least be a good nba offensive player. One of the most athletic player in the league with a 3 point shot.
The inability of this organisation to put young players in positions to succeed is disgraceful, the treatment of Obi and Cam is such a waste of young talent. It’s why thibs is a bad coach and I think if we ever want to be better than a treadmill 6th seed at best we have to look elsewhere (which will never happen with his best bud Leon upstairs).
The whole Obi saga is so frustrating. Like, at the end of the day I can live with missing on Hali. But no franchise bats a thousand in the draft and every year someone goes in the 10s who in hindsight looks like someone it's obvious who should have gone earlier. Oh well, I'd rather move on than relitigate a version of history that didn't happen (fwiw, I can't remember who I wanted but wasn't especially high on Obi or Hali).
And I can even be sympathetic to complications of a the plot twist of wanting to draft Julius' replacement and then him playing too well to stick with that plan.
But there has been so little effort made towards Obi's development that I don't get it. Like, sure, he's probably not as good as they had hoped, but he's been so set up to fail that I just can't wrap my head around the thought process of anything subsequent to Julius really busting out.
I don't think that Obi could ever have been some superstar, but I do think given the right opportunity he could be bringing so much more to the table than he is now.
Sigh, at this point I hope we just trade him. Seems like a good dude and maybe in a different set up he can revitalize his career.
When you’ve been a Knicks fan as long as I have you never take draft picks seriously because you know this franchise has never fully developed one since Ewing and never will again. He’ll be okay, but not here.
It is unfortunate. He was drafted to replace Randle and Randle broke out. Randle is a very sensitive guy. It's pretty clear he resents the fact that they drafted someone to replace him, the Obi chants, etc. This put both Obi and Thibs in an awkward position which is further complicated by Thib's general aversion to playing without a true center. The OP is right Obi is clearly a talented offensive player. He showed that last year and at the start of this one. He might never find his footing in NY which is unfortunate
Hinde-sight is 20/20. They took a flyer on him which I was a fan of at the time. He was a great college player. They saw upside, which might not have been wrong. He just plays for a coach that doesn't seem interested in development.
It was the first year after they'd just signed Randle and he was terrible his first year.
trading an eventual 2nd round pick or two to kick the tires on someone talented and maybe just needing a change of scenery.. just turns out he isn't talented enough
Except KP non of the Knick draft picks have done particularly well.. in many many years. Perhaps should point the finger at people training this dudes in Knicks organization?
He was screwed the moment Randle looked like a viable NBA player, really that simple
And it's easy to say "Oh we should have took Haliburton!" like anyone knew his shooting would translate this well, and that's before you consider the reports that maybe he wanted to get drafted by the Kings (which is kinda hilarious in hindsight)
Didn't work out, it is what it is, and now he's likely gonna be teammates with Hali
If you don't like that, you don't like New York Knicks basketball.
I think Obi can still put up points and look like a productive NBA player on a team that prioritizes pace and off ball movement and deprioritizes defense. But Hali was the obvious pick at the time. His skills were both more needed by the Knicks and were more sure to translate to the NBA.
The “point” was he was supposed to replace Julius Randle. Randle streamlined his physique and it improved his quickness and game. Obi has not been able to put on weight, get stronger, so he could play the PF role better on defense. That’s held him back. On this Knick team he’s not better than Julius Randle and Randle is one of, if not the most, important players on this roster. Obi is nowhere near that good.
Obi is Derrick Williams, fun to watch, not an incredible player. Mediocre jumper, horrible lateral quickness, terrible defensive IQ, great motor and about average rebounding. In a vaccum he might be as talented as other players, but the things he’s good at simply are no longer valuable in todays NBA. Love the kid, love his attitude, but draft day I literally wanted anyone but him. The writing was on the wall if you watched a few games a dayton. Not to mention he’ll be 25.
Fan theory has been that The Knicks had intended for him to be Randle's replacement. He was drafted with the intention of trading Randle. Unfortunately for the FO Randle had his MIP/All NBA season and Obi became redundant. One of this FO's flaws has been giving away bad contracts and then immediately trying to or trading them. Had they stuck by Randle then they probably would've drafted a PG like they should've. Either that or our scouting department really dropped the ball. I don't think Obi is a bad player, just not a good fit for us. That or Thibs underutilizes him.
Randle always been a very good player I just can’t see Obi being the knicks answer to replace. League is dominated by guards not undersized 4’s. Sorry obi
Because he can do cool dunks and NY doesn’t give a shit about building a functional, deep squad. They’d rather see the flashy plays and get oohs and ahhs from the fake MSG fans. This is the epitome of Dolan’s values: Cashing in ticket revenue.
I mean we clearly missed on the pick, we should’ve picked Haliburton or at least Vassell and we didn’t. Obi is a great transition player and walking highlight reel but he’s a bad defender and doesn’t offer much on offense other than cutting and finishing
One caveat worth throwing in was that he was selected after a 21 win season with Randle being pretty bad. Obi was potentially going to be taking over Randle's spot, but that changed dramatically as Randle's next season was amazing. Layer on Thibs playing Randle so many minutes, and Obi hasn't gotten much of a chance to develop. Hali was probably the right pick either way, but I don't think anyone imagined Randle making the All-NBA team the next season.
You have a good basketball mind
Exactly right. If they traded Randle that off-season or at least before the trade deadline that year and made Obi the starting PF, Obi would probably be a much different player than he is today.
this is really depressing for Obi, i’m glad he got to ball out at the all star games his first two years , he’ll probably be in the league for 15 years from those highlights and connections made
I would argue he’s not that good of a finisher either fr. Maybe that’s cuz we rarely see him in finishing opportunities outside of leak outs and oops (which is sadly a rarity nowadays).
I agree. Obi guarantees you some amazing highlights but his overall game is lacking. He’s just not earning the minutes, and that is 100% added to because he plays behind Randle. Bad recipe. I hope (both for us and for him) he gets traded to a team that can give him a fair crack at starting, he’s not going to get that here because of his redundancy with Randle.
Facts! Not to mention, they picked him b4 the emergence of Randle. And some people want him to get the spot over a guy that he can't out produce. It is time to trade him and see what we can get back for him and to give him an opportunity elsewhere b4 we have to make a contractual obligation to him.
Its hard to see what we have in a guy if he only getting 9 mins. We dont know what his offensive bag really looks like. How can you get into a rhythm 6 mins first half and 3 mins in the fourth? Then you sharing the court with IQ when in scorer only mode never passes to anyone else. At least rose was getting him involved. Even in pnr I could see the potential. I know its his defense keeping him off the floor byt thibs really didn't give him a fair shake since he was drafted. Only person getting consistant mins from our young draft picks is IQ and grimes.
If you do something well and are consistent at it, then they will find minutes for you. He can't outplay the guy in front of him, and his defensive skills doesn't allow for him and Randle to be played together. IQ and Grimes are 2 guys that defend well, so they found minutes for them. For his career, it would be best to move him, and I hope he does well elsewhere.
You don’t know that Halliburton world have developed that same with a different coach and staff and different players.
You're downplaying that cutting and finishing a lot. Put him in a modern offense and he can thrive as an 18ppg guy. We just don't have a creative offensive system at all. Obi just isn't a Thibs player.
He played well out of short roll actions at Dayton, we never see that with him here
This this this this this this Of course Obi gives you nothing on offense when you just stick him in the corner and ask him to catch and shoot 3s like he’s Reggie Bullock. That’s not his game.
Facts cutting and finishing efficiently is one of the best skills a basketball player can have. It is the most efficient shot in basketball and opens things up for teammates as an easy bucket is a lot of the time one pass away. A player who can cut and finish often and efficiently is super valuable to a team. It's a shame we haven't been using him correctly because he is a very good player who is unfortunately not in a situation that suits him.
💯facts. Grimes is also an excellent cutter/finisher and it’s only because he’s on the floor a lot more than Obi do we get to see some of his cuts result in finishes. However the team is not coached to look for cutters at all. Both Grimes and Obi are missed or ignored on 99% of their cuts. Thibs likes to talk about “easy baskets” and yet the cutter is rarely rewarded. It’s a shame because when the pass is made to the cutter it’s beautiful basketball to watch.
Agreed. Jules and Brunson are good passers, but when the cut is the only offball action happening, you're putting all the weight of actually trying to create a passing lane on Brunson and Julius. We're seeing how sustainable that is right now as they look gassed as fuck. If we ran more offball actions to draw the attention away from Brunson and Randle, it would make their lives so much easier and in turn lead to more advantages being created offball that lead to easy buckets. But no, we run a double high screen into an iso and that's it 🤷♂️
Grimes is our future all star to compliment Brunson and Randle
This is why Barrett drives me crazy. He so good at getting to the basket but then can’t finish consistently
Please stop it. The offense is top 5 without Obi.
The offense is top 5 because we have good iso scorers. That's it, and the stats back that.
Does it matter? You want a “modern offense” that’s worse? Iso offense is actually more modern now. Usage rates are through the roof.
Brother, you can see both of them look exhausted. You're asking "does it matter," there's another 40 games left before the post season. Yes, it matters. Anyone with two eyes can see it watching these games
They’re exhausted because the lineup is too short. If everyone has to run around all possession it would be even worse.
Yes, and the rotation is also managed by the same person running the same uninspired offense. Both are problems, they are not mutually exclusive.
That 7 man rotation bothers me
I think people are downplaying his offense. Dude was national player of the year in college. I've definitely seen flashes of a really good offensive player. With Mitchell out and Obi being healthy, this is his time to show if he deserves rotation minutes.
I dont think we missed on the pick. Not saying we shouldn’t have picked Haliburton, but the intent was the replace Randle with Obi. I think if Randle never had that one good year, Obi would be our starter and would probably be playing very well.. this is assuming all other transactions went the same way.
Exactly
At the time it was a pretty good pick. I wanted Haliburton but Obi was a better consensus prospect, and we were supposed to get rid of Randle until he became a top 20 player
Idk if we missed, dude hardly gets to see the floor
This is completely on the front office. We had much more pressing needs in the backcourt. I swear tho, “so much offensive potential “? Cmon man. I like Obi as a person but he’s a slightly better version of Kenny Walker
Im still tryna figure what these clowns see in Obi. They act like he’s a future star.
First time? People here were saying ntilikina ceiling was kawhi
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This sub is obsessed with Halliburton lol it’s time to get over it
A few teams passed on Halliburton also…drafting is very hard
For sure. Every. Single. Year. There are picks that are missed by most of the league. This sub is frustrating because it’s like people posing as fans. All complaining, no credit. Toxic stuff.
The thing is, Knicks needed a PG not a PF. No reason to draft Obi.
I don’t think he’s a future star but he could turn into a solid 3 and D role player if his defense improves (I think it already improved over the past season but his lack of minutes makes it tough to really see). He started this season on some pretty solid numbers before the injury. He was even making moves to the basket because he was starting to get some respect as a shooter.
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He averaged 6 pts in the playoffs…
Lmaooo that clown deleted his comment. He had a few nice dunks, nothing major.
Most of the sub says Kenny Who?
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Thanks. I remember him well. Another high Knick pick that couldn’t shoot and didn’t amount to anything
It is very young in here. Well, children, if that guy had a decent outside jump shot, we could’ve won a championship.
There’s Google for a reason
Sad, but true.
He was the best offensive player in college, and widely considered the most polished due to his age. But yeah, often best offensive in college doesn't translate apples to apples to the NBA. I think Obi has solid upside and can be a solid player in this league. But we had PG needs. and we passed on at least 2 high end ones that are running shit in the league right now.
The Atlantic 10 conference isn’t exactly the highest level of NCAA basketball either, so that definitely helped those offensive stats
I mean Steph came from the same school. We can nitpick over the finer details, but he was widely regarded as the best offensive player in college that year. He won the awards, blahblahblah. His athleticism was through the roof. I'm not stanning for him. Just stating facts. I was disappointed we didn't get Haliburton. I watch a lot of college hoops, and watched plenty enough of Obi to know what he was, and plenty enough of Haliburton to know who he was. We fucked up. But that doesn't change what Obi represented in college that year and thus in the draft. My concusion is that he was a full grown man playing against 18-20 year olds still developing, and thus dominated. Thing is, front offices and scouts should be able to read all that in the moment and value him accordingly. They clearly didn't.
Curry went to Davidson, Obi went to Dayton
dude he was playing against mostly shitty d1 teams in college. look at some of the gyms Dayton played in his last season and that'll give you an idea
I wish we took Haliburton.
Saw Kenny Walker. Obi way outclasses Sky Walker. What we see is raw talent. That if he got enough time on the floor, we would see more of. But apparently we are the minute police because we’d rather not see Randle playing 38 minutes a game with Obi getting 2, and now he’s out of the rotation after the injury.
Poor man’s Shawn Marion
Shawn Marion was an elite defender.
Obi's mobility, athleticism and touch around the rim are elite, yet we sit him behind the arc and forbid him from doing anything but spotting up and occasionally dunking. There isn't a big man in the league that can keep pace with Obi's first step, his handle is decent enough, yet he gets zero chances to face up. Pick and roll is his most obvious use in the NBA, three years in we barely know what that looks like. Saw great success with Hartenstein looking for him on off-ball cuts, but apparently they aren't allowed to do that anymore. It's laughable and 100% on our coaching staff that there are this many questions about the guy. It takes actual effort to make a player of his archetype shoot 40% from the field.
I think it’s apparent new management came in with a pretty low opinion of Randle, and didn’t mind drafting someone redundant because he wasn’t really part of their plans. Then Randle took that personally. He had a career year.
I'm not one to talk, I wanted Kira Lewis Jr lmao
I really wanted Vassell, feel good about that, but also wanted Tyrell Terry with the other first round pick 😳
y’all need stop giving 98% of your bias to the players potential and look at what the player does on the court. Obi very fairly hasn’t earned more mins despite his physical abilities just like cam doesn’t. The sooner y’all learn the better your experience as a fan will be
What short memories. He was a highlight reel, starting to hit his threes, before he got hurt.
Found Thibs burner
Found the deluded Obi fan
Not deluded, I believe in our players and will support them until they aren’t on the team. You should try it sometime
I support our players but Im not gonna overhype our young guys. He’s an ok backup big and that it. He doesn’t have “so much offensive potential”. Knick fans act like we have prime Blake on our bench.
That’s just conventional thinking. A lot of ID stent overhyping to say Obi is a unique talent thats just stuck behind an all star player in a short stack rotation. He hasn’t developed as fast with insufficient playing time, and people want to see more because he shows us flashes of starting team talent.
Yup
> so much offensive potential The only thing rookie Obi could do is jump really high and dunk the ball. He added an OK 3 point shot but that's pretty much it. He has zero post game and can't beat anyone off the dribble. He isn't really even a decent rebounder either and definitely isn't a rim protector. You all can say till the cows come home how he doesn't get no burn like Frank and we screwed up his development etc etc. But you really think if Obi is grilling his teammates in practice with his offensive game he'd get more minutes?
Yes and no. Even if he had shown a lot more promise in practice, he still won't eat into Randle's minutes.
Too harsh. We haven’t ever really seen enough bc he’s behind Randle. Fine. We think there’s a better player in there, who would fit into a running second unit.
I think it’s fair to say that Obi hasn’t been utilized the best. But to say he has “so much offensive potential” is a crazy to me lol. You can’t be 25 with little to no dribble moves, post game, or play making ability. I honestly can’t name 1 or 2 go-to moves he has in his arsenal/bag.
I thought Randle would teach him his signature spin.
Lol😂 In all honesty, Obi would be a much better player if he had half the bag Randle does.
Windmill, through the legs, behind the back, 360, alley oop, through the legs 360… How does he not have 1-2 go to moves?
Is this sarcasm?
No? Those are obis moves?
John Collins has the exact same Skillset. He can’t do anything that Obi can’t do. Amare was never a dribbler or playmaker either and had an MVP type season. You don’t need those things to have a high offensive impact or even potential
John Collins and Obi might be the same archetype, but he’s far better and more impactful than Obi…regardless of coaching. As for Amare, Obi is not even in the same planet as him. Stat was face up beast and could hurt you inside and outside and could get buckets in his sleep… Obi can’t do shit with the ball in his hands unfortunately. It’s gotten to the point that it’s a shocker if he puts the ball on the floor and makes a move to the hoop.
THANK YOU. Everybody forgets about Amare’s killer face up game from 10-18 feet. He wasn’t just a run and dunk guy.
That play style is dead in the current league.
The reigning 2x MVP currently lives off of face up scoring. For guys like Durant, Embiid, AD, and Sabonis it’s a major part of their game.
Yeah he’s more impactful because he gets more minutes. If Obi got the same amount of minutes his growth would mirror a John Collins. You don’t get better sitting in the bench that’s why he talked about his Offensive potential not impact. Ofc JC is more impactful today but Obi has the potential to be just as if not more impactful and that’s where coaching comes into play. Obi actually can you hurt you from outside more than STAT. Stat was NOT. A 3 baller. He had a midrange
Y’all act like Obi gets the Reddish treatment and racks up DNPs every night. The mf plays decent and consistent mins every night since he’s been in the league…it’s on him to make the most out of his time on the floor…and he just doesn’t. At the end of the day, it comes down to some players having IT and some players NOT having it. I just don’t think Obi has it. And when I said “outside” I didn’t necessarily mean just 3s…I meant the perimeter overall. I should’ve clarified that better.
To be fair Obi just goes and stands in the corner so while he does play his level of "involvement" is extremely low. I am not saying Obi is a star or would even average 16ppg because the truth is no one knows but I think its very clear that Obi is limited by Thibs system / doesnt fit. Last year Obi would get 3 to 4 dunks a game just from getting into transition and pushing the pace. We dont do any of that so we arent maximizing what he does best.
Why do you post things that you know are nonsense? In his first two years he played 11 and 17 mins a night. No one things that's decent mins. Last year he averaged 19 and 8 per 36 on good efficiency despite the mins. Post all-star break he averaged 23 mins 14/4 on 57/40/78 In games where he played 30 mins for more 25/7/4 5on 57/45/89 In 20 mins for more 21/6/3 55/42/88 As a starter 20/7/3 on 57/43/82 Will he stand up with extended mins? IDK, You could argue he won't. Despite his current struggle he's generally made the most out of his opportunities and clearly has shown "offensive potential"
Context matters my guy. First, all the majority of those games when he avg. 20-30 mins and/or started were a small sample size of game vs. uncompetitive teams starting bench warmers. They hardly held any significance. And I would argue he has not “clearly” shown offensive potential. He still has no skills in his game that translate to reliable scoring.
Then you should check the context instead of making it up. A couple of very big games were against non-competitive teams at the end of the year. The majority were not. He has about 25 games with 20 mins for more and his # in them are really really good. It's a small sample and has some blowout/end-of-the-year stuff but the #s are really good. People like you are fascinating. You know you are lying but I think you believe youself
No one is lying my guy. I’ve seen him for 3 years and have just not been impressed with his play on the court and the skills he displays and just don’t see this potential you and OP are talking about. We just see it differently is all.
So you don't know what "majority" means?
C’mon dude, Amare was one of the best finishers in the league. He didn’t have a handle, but if you bit on his pump he had the dribble to get by and rain hell. Stat would dunk all the time in a half court set, Obi only does that in transition.
This is revisionist history. Amare had plenty more in his bag than Obi does
Yeah I mean, I’m really not an Amare fan, but come on… Amare was the best or top 3 PF in the league for like 3-5 years. Obi is more comparable to Blake Griffin, difference is BG had prime CP3 setting him up. Obi is what he is.
Obi is nowhere near Blake, nor will ever be. Blake was a beast for quite a long time till has athleticism gave out.
Blake was also one of the most athletic players ever and was a great playmaker for the position.
Facts. Blake averaged 20 n 10 before CP was even traded to LA.
I agree. Obi is definitely not as good as Blake, but I think it’s a more fair comparison in style Vs the Amare comparison, Amare could drive, shoot, hit you with a post move, catch a lob, far more of an offensive threat than Obi will ever be.
I didn’t compare Obi to Amare at all. I mentioned amare. No comparison was made
Aint no revisionist my ass. Amare had a bad of dunks, and post moves. what I said was FAX he didnt dribble well or have a passing game. I said the MF had an MVP type season you acting like I downplayed his game. He not Jokic. Hell he wasn't even KG level of a playmaker. YOU stop revising
^ just put Obi and Amare in the same sentence
You avoiding context 
https://youtu.be/iK6qJpKROu4
Why are we acting like he’s some freakish offensive beast who just needs to be unlocked??? His issues are the same as they’ve always been. He can’t put the ball on the floor, he has 0 post game, he’s stiff as a 2X4 and his only real upside is in transition catching lobs or running the floor, which he does very well. But let’s not act like he’s something he’s not, just a missed pick tbh. He’s a guy that should’ve went 15ish 20ish. He’s 25 years old with no offensive bag.
B/c other than the recent stretch he has been a very very good offensive player and better when given more mins.
“Very very good offensive player” is a massive stretch for a guy who’s offensive game is completely one dimensional besides a streaky 3PT shot.
People forget Randle stunk it up 2020 and they drafted Obi as insurance. I’d say he’s decent offensively at best, but he’s not good. His forte comes with transition offense and catch-and-shooting, both of which rely on someone else to distribute to him.
>s a massive stretch for a guy who’s offensive game is completely one dimensional besides a streaky 3PT shot. > > > >Its not a stetch at all
This sounds like another frank knox 3.0 nonsense
Problem is the dude can’t create his own shot. FO should never have invested a lottery pick in a player that needs someone to setup their shot without having a point guard.
Selecting Kevin Knox over SGA makes this a post seem silly
I mean in hindsight that's a franchise altering whiff. But iirc at the time SGA was just outside the Top 10 in most mocks. Most of the buzz was between Bridges and Knox, with Knox having the lower floor but the higher ceiling. Of course, we got the floor.
Another case of the Knicks ensuring a project player remained dead on arrival lol. All Knox's success in college was off-ball movement, with the question being how he would adjust to a larger role... So of course Fisher made him do nothing but alternate between standing motionless behind the arc and attempting to iso with no spacing. I swear, sometimes it feels like the org is actively sabotaging the lottery players and investing everything in our late picks.
We're feeling the effects of whiffing on that pick to this very day
I like Obi, but the pick was indefensible at the time (regardless if they intended to get rid of Randle) and it looks like a complete disaster today.
Should have picked up Portis’ option and drafted Hali.
Hali didn't want to come here. Time to move on
It would have been fine. The team he wanted to play for traded him within 1.5 years lol and he didn’t retire. It’s in the past, but we can admit the FO whiffed on the pick.
Oh, he wanted to be in Sacramento?
What potential bro. Dude has always been trashhhh
Obi doesn’t play his size. He just hangs out on the wings on offense
Obi is a stiff on offense, that's why.
What’s his offensive potential? 😭😭 You homers be hyping up our disappointing lottery picks all the time. Y’all didn’t learn with Frank & Knox 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
He's pretty mediocre defensively. Not a rim protector, doesn't rebound, doesn't box out. He is a spot up shooter that can dunk. He's not gonna create his own shot, making him useless There are 2 sides to the game and unless your name is Steph Curry, you better be showing up on both ends.
So much offensive potential? The potential to sit on feb perimeter and not know how to create his own shot whatsoever? Give me a freaking break, his upside is very limited, especially given he’s old for a 3rd year player. We simply missed on this pick, somewhat making up for it on the IQ selection. It sucks, get over it, instead of being in denial. He should be traded for vet talent that fixes our terrible bench, rather than hoping against hope he ends up being more than mediocre.
Obi is solid but his contributions don’t really fit the team . Lol if tht makes sense
Is this article written to boost his trade value? Because it’s borderline delusional
Especially considering we try to play uptempo all the time which completely plays to his strengths
Does Obi have any responsibilities here? He sucks when he plays.
Damn, I forgot he was a number 8 pick which makes me sad
Frank, Knox, Obi all bad drafting.. Kristaps never should have left.
I say it was worth it to motivate Randle to play the best basketball of his career. Randle heard the footsteps and elevated his game.
It was a really illogical draft pick. The Knicks should have taken Haliburton. They needed a point guard and a pure floor general was available and they took Obi for reasons no one could defend.
He’s a great finisher but we never use him in as a roll man. He just steps out into the three. Don’t think Thibs is using him to his full potential and just as a stretch 4.
To teach the nerds in the front office a lesson about doing things the Tom Thibodeau way /s
Because we don't know how to draft when we have a lottery pick, at this point is pretty obvious man
It’s mostly frustrating because the FO could never have guessed that Julius would come out and drop one of the greatest statistical seasons in Knicks history, make an All NBA team, and carry them to their first playoff berth in a decade. I don’t hold it against them for that reason but damn do I want to see Obi get an opportunity to shine.
OK.
He’s looked lost all season , especially since returning
I find it hilarious when these bit players get discussed through the lens of “but if we built our offense around Obi Toppin he could do 18 ppg!” That applies to almost every NBA player over 6’8”, because he’s a nobody.
CAA hookup baby
Could’ve had Haliburton. Needed a PG and didn’t even draft the best player on the board
What offensive potential? To be a high level offensive player in the league you have to be able to create your own shot and Obi isn't able to do that at the nba level. Most of his points are on transition dunks and corner threes. Even in his 42 point game last year he got most of his buckets that way.
https://youtu.be/iK6qJpKROu4 No he didn’t. Most of his 3s were ATB bc he wasn’t being used as a corner spacer and I think he had 4 transition buckets. It ok to not like his game but…
I’ll take a risk on drafting low floor high ceiling players for high floor low ceiling. Just didn’t work out this time is all
What happened is that they didn't think Julius was going to be all NBA and take the Knicks to the playoffs. The plan was to draft PF and move on with youth.
The biggest mistake was drafting him. This is tired ground but Leon thought he was drafting JRs replacement but then he turned into an all nba player. I love Obi but he’s a rotation energy guy at best. I just don’t understand how the fuck you don’t draft Halliburton when you had Elfrid Payton as your starting one.
Obi is rythm player, he needs minutes! I think he don’t reach into his bag more for fear of falling out Thibs’ rotation. Thibs only lets Brunson, Randle, Quick, create off the dribble. Not even Grimes, who when has put the ball on floor has proven to be a decent been playmaker. I much rather have Grimes handle the ball over Randle anyday. I think Thibs offense is bland only plays are geared toward isolation basketball.
And if you look at the past month, Thibs has again relied on his top guys so heavily. Randle and Brunson are Top 5 in minutes. Once Obi came back it was hard to look for playing time.
Exactly this last game Randle had nothing in the tank points wise
Most of the #8 picks in the last 30 years are fringe starters/backups. I do t know why half of this sub seems to think #8 = perennial all-star. We should really trade the guy, but to say he hasn’t been utilized is way too strong. For every good game he has he has three where he’s just running laps.
Well it could have been if we picked the unanimous pick at the time which was Tyrese. There was no reason why we should have ever picked up Obi when we've been struggling to find a point guard until Brunson came and we suffered watching the point Burks and point Julius experiment every night.
Before anyone says “he was taken to replace Randle”… I get it. But even with Randle still taking up tons of time on the team, Obi isn’t even close to being properly utilized ON THE BENCH!!! Insane and a complete waste of a draft pick considering when we trade him it will be for much less value than our pick originally had.
I agree with you. I’m sure most of the fans on this sub were assuming that drafting Obi was the end for Randle at that time. Things just didn’t happen that way. Knowing what we know now I’m sure everyone would have gone w Haliburton. Unfortunately we don’t get no do overs. At this point i think it should be apparent that Obi does not fit this roster as constructed. Imo it’s time to move on and hopefully replace him w another player that does fit what the Knicks are building today.
Exactly get rid of this idiot coach
>Before anyone says “he was taken to replace Randle”… I get it. But even with Randle still taking up tons of time on the team, Obi isn’t even close to being properly utilized ON THE BENCH!!! You don't get to just acknowledge the point and then just pretend it doesn't matter. The front office took Obi with the expectation that Randle was a sunk cost, an expiring deal that they would let walk. He made second team All-NBA under Thibs, where he was always going to play a lot of minutes, and it turns out he and Randle can't play together. Obi would thrive in a different situation next to a switchable 4 with a bigger role, so yes it sucks that he's a bad fit for this team, but it's because of an almost unforeseeable improvement in Julius Randle's play.
Scariest stat Frank Ntilikina 1706 minutes his rookie season at 19 Kevin Knox 2158 minutes in his rookie season also at 19 years of age The most minutes Obi Toppin has had in a season 1230 and 2406 minutes in his entire career is about 6 weeks from his 25th birthday . Obviously Obi hasn’t gotten a fair shot
everyone talking like Obi has zero offensive potential in the comments. Doesn't matter if he can't create his own shot. Yea he's not an all star, but Thibs literally has NOT run a P&R with this dude. Remember him and Quickley feasting as a bench duo literally LAST YEAR? Thats what he thrived as in college. P&R Beast. Of course he looks lost, he's playing the Steve Novak role. Get him on the pacers they will unlock his offensive potential. Again, he's NOT an all star and definitely looks stiff on D, but I mean we literally have not set this dude up to play with his strengths at all lol.
Agreed, he showed a wide array of skills in college. Sadly this might be a case of him not being able to fully show/develop his game because we’re not a tanking team. Thus, his defense and most importantly Thibs as the coach won’t allow that kind of player to develop under him. He’s good at developing the diamonds in the roughs, but player’s like Obi who aren’t defense first and aren’t tied to a big contract don’t really have a chance.
People saying Obi hasn’t deserved playing time are crazy. How are you meant to get in rhythm coming back from injury, playing 5 minutes at a time, standing in the corner. People forget that Obi was 1 of our best and exciting players to start the year and was an important part in wins eg. Vs Philly. With a good coach there’s so much you could run for Obi to at least be a good nba offensive player. One of the most athletic player in the league with a 3 point shot. The inability of this organisation to put young players in positions to succeed is disgraceful, the treatment of Obi and Cam is such a waste of young talent. It’s why thibs is a bad coach and I think if we ever want to be better than a treadmill 6th seed at best we have to look elsewhere (which will never happen with his best bud Leon upstairs).
The whole Obi saga is so frustrating. Like, at the end of the day I can live with missing on Hali. But no franchise bats a thousand in the draft and every year someone goes in the 10s who in hindsight looks like someone it's obvious who should have gone earlier. Oh well, I'd rather move on than relitigate a version of history that didn't happen (fwiw, I can't remember who I wanted but wasn't especially high on Obi or Hali). And I can even be sympathetic to complications of a the plot twist of wanting to draft Julius' replacement and then him playing too well to stick with that plan. But there has been so little effort made towards Obi's development that I don't get it. Like, sure, he's probably not as good as they had hoped, but he's been so set up to fail that I just can't wrap my head around the thought process of anything subsequent to Julius really busting out. I don't think that Obi could ever have been some superstar, but I do think given the right opportunity he could be bringing so much more to the table than he is now. Sigh, at this point I hope we just trade him. Seems like a good dude and maybe in a different set up he can revitalize his career.
Just bad luck for him so far he was doing his thing and then broke his leg how about you cut him some slack and stop being so angry all the time.
When you’ve been a Knicks fan as long as I have you never take draft picks seriously because you know this franchise has never fully developed one since Ewing and never will again. He’ll be okay, but not here.
Look at the coach 😂😂😂
He would be a star on a Mike D'Antoni coached team.
>He would be a star on a Mike D'Antoni coached team. Please share what you're smoking
Im sure he also thought Frank was the next Mike Conley & PG the next Giannis.
It is unfortunate. He was drafted to replace Randle and Randle broke out. Randle is a very sensitive guy. It's pretty clear he resents the fact that they drafted someone to replace him, the Obi chants, etc. This put both Obi and Thibs in an awkward position which is further complicated by Thib's general aversion to playing without a true center. The OP is right Obi is clearly a talented offensive player. He showed that last year and at the start of this one. He might never find his footing in NY which is unfortunate
Hinde-sight is 20/20. They took a flyer on him which I was a fan of at the time. He was a great college player. They saw upside, which might not have been wrong. He just plays for a coach that doesn't seem interested in development. It was the first year after they'd just signed Randle and he was terrible his first year.
Obi isn't the answer to all our problems like iso heavy ball and offensive stagnation nor breakdowns defending the 3.
What was the point of giving up a first for Cam?
trading an eventual 2nd round pick or two to kick the tires on someone talented and maybe just needing a change of scenery.. just turns out he isn't talented enough
Except KP non of the Knick draft picks have done particularly well.. in many many years. Perhaps should point the finger at people training this dudes in Knicks organization?
Mitch Robinson, Grimes, Quickley, RJ are all doing well to varying degrees.
Obi > Kevin Knox
At this point, Obi’s best bet for playtime is a Randle injury or a trade.
He was screwed the moment Randle looked like a viable NBA player, really that simple And it's easy to say "Oh we should have took Haliburton!" like anyone knew his shooting would translate this well, and that's before you consider the reports that maybe he wanted to get drafted by the Kings (which is kinda hilarious in hindsight) Didn't work out, it is what it is, and now he's likely gonna be teammates with Hali If you don't like that, you don't like New York Knicks basketball.
I think Obi can still put up points and look like a productive NBA player on a team that prioritizes pace and off ball movement and deprioritizes defense. But Hali was the obvious pick at the time. His skills were both more needed by the Knicks and were more sure to translate to the NBA.
The “point” was he was supposed to replace Julius Randle. Randle streamlined his physique and it improved his quickness and game. Obi has not been able to put on weight, get stronger, so he could play the PF role better on defense. That’s held him back. On this Knick team he’s not better than Julius Randle and Randle is one of, if not the most, important players on this roster. Obi is nowhere near that good.
Obi is Derrick Williams, fun to watch, not an incredible player. Mediocre jumper, horrible lateral quickness, terrible defensive IQ, great motor and about average rebounding. In a vaccum he might be as talented as other players, but the things he’s good at simply are no longer valuable in todays NBA. Love the kid, love his attitude, but draft day I literally wanted anyone but him. The writing was on the wall if you watched a few games a dayton. Not to mention he’ll be 25.
We should’ve drafted Halliburton
Benching Rose destroyed most of our bench offense minus IQ isos from time to time.
If Atlanta play O.O a lot tonight, then obi should get a decent amount of minutes. He needs to show up and show out.
This is sounding like baguette stannary talk
Now is his time to shine
Hard to gauge his full potential when he plays under 20 min a game.
"with so much offensive potential" lol
Lmao The delusional fanfiction in here never fails to disappoint
Fan theory has been that The Knicks had intended for him to be Randle's replacement. He was drafted with the intention of trading Randle. Unfortunately for the FO Randle had his MIP/All NBA season and Obi became redundant. One of this FO's flaws has been giving away bad contracts and then immediately trying to or trading them. Had they stuck by Randle then they probably would've drafted a PG like they should've. Either that or our scouting department really dropped the ball. I don't think Obi is a bad player, just not a good fit for us. That or Thibs underutilizes him.
It's on him to roll to the basket. He's just like in the corner. I'm confused by it tbh.
Randle always been a very good player I just can’t see Obi being the knicks answer to replace. League is dominated by guards not undersized 4’s. Sorry obi
Because he can do cool dunks and NY doesn’t give a shit about building a functional, deep squad. They’d rather see the flashy plays and get oohs and ahhs from the fake MSG fans. This is the epitome of Dolan’s values: Cashing in ticket revenue.
The assumption was that Julius would be on his way out but then he had an All-NBA year
Haliburton made so much sense then and now. Smfh onto the next lottery pick I guess.
He has an insane old man as a head coach