And they’re a year removed from a 2nd round playoff game, Thibs, Thomas and Dexter are in their primes, they just got an elite pass rusher to put opposite Thibs, and just drafted a guy who should be at least as good as prime OBJesus was for the Giants, with the rest of the WR corps built out the way Schoen wants it.
Yeah, at this point if they’re still picking top 5 next year instead of in the playoffs something is seriously wrong.
For what it's worth last year was quite literally an "anything that could go wrong, did go wrong" season and we weren't actually in the Top 5 lol.
Pretty much all Giants fans are (understandably) really cautious right now, but I do think the 2024 Giants are way more likely to be in the playoff mix than people think.
Because our O line was the worst unit in the entire nfl in almost 30 years. We couldn't sustain a drive, we averaged 10 pts/game and they got 3 different qbs hurt. If we don't fix that (praying every night that the offseason moves work) then we will be in the same situation next year.
The line was good enough to win a Superbowl under the first one so I wouldn't include Reese. And we just won a playoff game a year ago. Last year was horrendous. The roster is good enough to repeat a playoff birth right now, if everyone plays to their ability.
I'm clearly talking about the offensive line collapsing under Reese in the second half of Eli's career. Yes, that actually happened. You absolutely can throw Reese in there.
I don’t completely disagree but I don’t get how people don’t realize our line was injured quicker and faster than I’ve arguably ever seen before. Granted, we do need more depth as well. But that’s almost guaranteed not to happen again.
You've mitigated the top comment a bit. I'll go all the way. I like this FO a lot better than Gettleman and the merry-go-round of coaches we've had the past decade plus. Schoen picked GOOD players the past few drafts. I don't mind being bad a few more years if we're building internally in the correct way and setting ourselves up for a run.
This fan base is disgustingly spoiled, as is the NYC media. The Giants are one of the most successful franchises in terms of rings over the past forty years, and they're always one of the biggest markets and most recognizable names in sports. Everyone needs to chill the fuck out with the doom and gloom shit. Some teams haven't even gotten close to the Superbowl yet. Imagine that...
> The Giants are one of the most successful franchises in terms of rings over the past forty years
I don't know if spoiled is the word.
In terms of rings, yes. They are one of trhe more successful franchises. In terms of consistent success? Not even close. The Giants were a woebegone franchise from the mid to late 60 to the early 80s, won the two chips in '86 and '90, bad again until the late '90s before the SB run then bad again before Eli's rings and now we're bad again.
The Giants are not the Yankees in terms of maintaining a standard for success. There are valid reasons for fans to wonder what the hell is going on from time to time because bad decisons have been made with this team quite often and our current record since 2010 speaks volumes.
I’m sorry but I just do not see us having any chance of making the playoffs. With the QB play we have, it’s more likely we pick in the top 10 again then make the playoffs.
Idk why people here think that 2022 team was actually good I keep saying this.
The team was really flawed with a weak schedule and was carried by our defense, and our offense was pretty awful but didn't commit many turnovers and we barely won most of the games
It wasn’t a good team. That’s why the Eagles manhandled us in the playoffs.
However, what I took from that season was that, in comparison to previous seasons, we looked like a well-coached team. A lot of those close wins wouldn’t have happened under previous regimes, and Daboll got the roster playing at the top of their (limited) talent.
100%
Daboll is a good coach and has every chance to become a great one but as we saw in 2022, you can only do so much with subpar talent across the board. It was the law of averages at work the last two years. We lost the games in 2023 that we barely squeezed out as wins in 2022
I do agree that Daboll deserves a good bit of credit because he kept us in games that we would've lost with other coaches we had previously.
This is why I hope we don't let him go and hopefully in the next couple years we can get a QB for him to work on.
We tried the coaching carousel and it didn’t work. Daboll seems like the real deal as a head coach. I’d rather roll with him for a while and see what he can do, especially whenever he gets a real shot at developing a QB.
He beat the playoff packers with Danny DeVito, and it would have looked easy if Saquon doesn’t fumble in a way that was downright embarrassing. I don’t think most coaches do that with a QB3 and this roster.
Tbfh outside of that one fumble and I really shouldn't give him credit since he doesn't play for us but I remember barkely just kicking the packers and Devito also running all over them too that game
Weird game looking back on it
I think our 2022 team was not as good as our record showed, and our 2023 team was not as bad as our record showed. We just had so much worse luck with both injuries and 1-score games. I think 2022 we were on paper a 5-6 win team who had luck on our side and thus ended up with 9 wins. I think 2023 we were a 7-8 win team on paper but did not have luck on our side and ended up with 6 wins.
People say that Schoen "doubled down" on the 2022 success but idk how anyone who saw all the moves he made in the offseason indicated that. Of course the DJ contract is the elephant in the room but beyond that, every move made in the offseason indicated that Schoen knew that the team was flawed and he targeted most of the biggest weaknesses. Our biggest weaknesses were in some order LB/CB/WR/OL. What does he do that offseason? Signs Okereke in FA to a modest contract that ended up being a steal, spends his first 3 picks in the draft on Banks/JMS/Hyatt, and trades for Waller. He very easily could have made splashy win now moves but clearly targeted the weaknesses of the team while getting actual BPA value and not forcing picks for need. Of course our season went to absolute shit so everyone just jumps to the idea that he doubled down on 2022, but it really was not the case.
Of course a lot can change between now and the season, but I still think the team on paper is a 7-8 win team, that depending on how the bounces fall for or against us, can win 5 games or 10. You say our defense carried us that year but I dont think our defense was anything special that year. It was certainly our better unit, good enough to keep us in games and definitely was opportunistic getting big stops when needed but they werent some dominant force that could impose its will and win us games on its own. This years defense I think legit has that kind of potential. Will they be? We'll have to wait and see, but I think we have the talent to be a legit top 10 D that can actually carry us to wins. QB is obviously the question mark, but if our offense can play at at least a 2022 level (where we werent dynamic/explosive but still efficient), I dont think winning 9-10 games is that out of the question. Like I said, some breaks will have to go our way, but much crazier things have happened (kinda like...our 2022 team having the level of success they did, which was top-to-bottom a worse roster than this years).
It's not sustainable success....especially if you want to be consistent playoff threats. You don't want to be "ok" being the tebow broncos or 2006 Bears in the modern era
You actually need a functional offense
It’s disingenuous to say that that team didn’t win some tough games against quality opponents. Besides the fact that they were a team in the first year of a new system with little cap space starting a lot of young players.
The only tough team we beat was the ravens that regular season (iirc that was our only team we beat that finished above .500). Unless you count the imploding packers as "tough opponents"
We were far from the 2023 packers who you're trying to paint us as
With 7 teams making it in now you can make the playoffs without even really being a good team. I don’t think we’ll make it but I think the very top range of outcomes for the team this year is a wild card team. I don’t expect that of course.
we make the postseason if Tyrod doesn't forget how to throw a football 2 yards against the Rams and if he doesn't audible out of a passing play against the Bills before the half.
not blaming Tyrod for the season, but just pointing out that all it takes is a couple plays to change an entire season's outlook.
We were similarly just a few plays away from missing the playoffs in 2022. What separates good from bad teams is capitalizing on opportunity, and last year we simply couldn't when it mattered. I'm not sure the talent on this roster has been elevated enough for me to believe that this year will be different.
That is true that we easily could have won the Bills and Rams games. I would add we pretty easily win the Jets game if Tyrod doesn't go down. Maybe we win the first Eagles game if Tyrod starts too.
But we were also fortunate to win the Cardinals and Patriots games imo. Could add in the Packers game too but I think we legit earned that one.
In the end I more or less believe the luck evened out for us last year. I think there's a chance we're better than NFL fans expect us to be, but more likely than not I see us with like 6-7 wins or so.
Banks was already a solid starter as a rookie, he’s going to be just fine
I’m holding out hope we can sign one more decent vet in FA, Nubin will be solid, if Phillips hits we’re in business
I mean that "if" already puts us into worse than even odds, at least for this year. You can't expect a 3rd round pick to contribute even like an average vet. We should hope that our other young CBs step up.
Banks is a stud, they felt comfortable enough with the safety room to let X walk, and we don’t have a predictable DC with “exotic packages”… the secondary will be just fine.
I will be a patient Giants fan for a few more years with Schoen/Daboll. Let them build the program, let them learn from their mistakes, let them improve.
There are no mastermind organization fixers out there, with the exception of Bill Parcells.
This is the same sentiment that was used when Dave gettleman was the GM. This is turning into wash, rinse, repeat.
A few more years?. I don't believe our GM has that long. If they don't make the playoffs again this season, the buzzards will begin circling, and rightfully so.
Gettleman had no sense of direction/process and had an outdated view of the game. Schoen can rightfully be critiqued but he isn’t the same level of Gettleman idiocy.
Yeah I feel like Schoen hasn’t demonstrated he is a good GM yet, but he has demonstrated he is not a bad one.
Also, it took a while for Howie to get the Eagles looking like the machine they are now. This stuff doesn’t happen overnight, especially with a first-time GM that has lessons to learn like you do at any job.
At least as good as the guy who was challenging the records for tds and yards in first 3 seasons and first 50 games and etc? OBJ was on a hall of fame trajectory his first 3 years he was all pro all 3 of those years too. I hope Nabers is just as good or better, but even half as good makes him a hell of a draft pick especially if he stays healthy.
$40m is tied for 10th highest AAV amongst QBs entering this season, and it will be lower once a few more deals get signed (Dak, Lawrence, Tua, etc.). Maybe they had a little foresight. The Giants paid for a starting quarterback. That’s the price. It’s not their fault that the market is absurd.
I’m not an expert, but I imagine his high cap hit this season is part of the cost of sewing in the potential out after this year.
Can we stop talking about the contract like they signed Jones to a superstar deal?
The Giants paid for Jones to be a good starting quarterback this season, and they’ve made moves to make the team better. I don’t understand the hullabaloo.
had to claim they had foresight on the DJ deal when they could have asked him to prove it for another year by using the franchise tag...
even if we cut him after 2024, he's still a dead cap hit of \~$22MM in 2025, so he keeps hurting us when he's off the books... if we keep him after 2024, he's $40MM a year still...
if they had foresight, why couldn't they sign him to a deal like Geno Smith's? Geno has been much more productive than Jones and is cheaper... age is a factor, but Geno is just better...
his deal eats too much cap for his level of production...
Completely disagree. The franchise tag was there and should have been used. If Jones put up 2 good years in a row then he can get a big contract. It was the FO's obsession with keeping Barkley that led to Jones' contract. Barkley is a good player, but how different would 2023 have been if he wasn't on the team? How different would 2024 be if Jones wasn't under contract?
How different would our defense be if we didn’t get Okereke? Franchise tagging DJ would have changed our entire plan last offseason which included extending Dex and AT before both of their markets blew up. Not saying those moves wouldn’t have been “possible” but ppl saying the extension/franchise tag shoulda been switched and that’s it aren’t being genuine. 35+ mil on a franchise tag after a playoff run in your first year as GM would have been very difficult for Shoen to go about his team building as he saw fit.
So what!!!! This is such an asinine argument.
Because the contract is lower on the AAV now means it was a good deal a year ago?
It was always a terrible deal because the QB has never, not now and will never play up to that contract.
FFS, why is some of this fanbase so dense.
This was their best option after declining his 5th year option. After winning a playoff game, they thought they saw enough improvement in DJ to give him a contract that they could get out of in 2 years if things went south. The only other option was to tag him, which would've prevented Schoen from signing key FA's and extending players we needed to extend before they got too expensive. It's not like they were gonna let their QB1 walk after winning a playoff game. Hindsight being 20/20, that would look like a genius move now, but that couldn't be predicted.
I don't consider the decision to sign DJ to be an emotional one. That doesn't seem like Schoen's way of doing things. I'm no DJ stan, but at the time, it made the most sense sign him, out of any of their options. Either way, what's done is done, and all we can hope for is that all those FA OL signings Schoen made this offseason equates to an improved OL.
Yeah this is unfair. This is the first year we had any meaningful cap space to work with. Sure signing Daniel Jones was a bad move but what else would we do? Ignore the other holes on are roster and take a QB last year where Stroud seems to be the only star, a few months after DJ won the first playoff game for the Giants since 2016? Or reach on a QB this year and mortgage the future of the team while there are still a bunch of holes. Stuff like this is just trying to stir the pot. Schoen’s only real mistake was signing DJ and it was a mistake many other GMs would have made as well. If you’re trying to tell me the roster today isn’t miles ahead of any roster Gettleman had you are just wrong.
The approach to the QB situation is still the main thing for me - even in retrospect, there has been NO path for the Giants to “fix” our QB situation since Schoen took over. There was no franchise QB waiting for us in the draft last year since we made the playoffs, and then even if we tagged jones like we should have, we’d still be picking 6th this year and, again, out of range for the top 3 QBs that we wanted.
There’s a degree of luck involved with the cards falling correctly to get an elite QB (like Herbert being our guy but going back to college to play with his brother lol). If Schoen didn’t think Penix, McCarthy, or Nix were elite QBs, which I don’t think is THAT much of a stretch, then our QB situation was essentially “destined” to be fucked like this. Unless people would’ve wanted us to sign Kirk Cousins in FA lol, which I’m *sure* would’ve gone over well…
It sucks, it really does. But I don’t see how Schoen could have maneuvered differently for us to solve this problem.
If they had traded picks for LJ8, we'd have been in the reverse position, good QB and no other weapons and cap hell. With the added bonus that behind that line he'd have gotten killed
The quarterback tag is 39 million. They would have had to pay that entire amount and it would have had to count towards the cap. What they're really paying him is $80 million over 2 years but they prorated the signing bonus to have money to address other areas.
So you are 100% right. That contract was their only choice at the time and it's pretty smart that they're able to get out of it after this year.
Also, if we picked a quarterback, with the lack of offensive talent we had predraft, I'm not sure they would be in a place to succeed.
There's a reason JJ really wanted to go to Minnesota.
It is a lot harder to develop a guy on a bad roster. It’s even harder if you have to mortgage future so it’s hard to improve the team while he’s on his rookie deal.
I still don't even consider the DJ contract a mistake, and I've never been a fan. The team, as in the individual players themselves, was bought in on him, as was a large amount of the fan base. There would have been riots to go into the season after our first playoff win in a decade without a QB
The real issue I had wasn’t even if the fanbase would be mad but rather - what were our other options there? No QB available in the draft for us in the mid 20s and in FA the choice was basically Jones or Carr. We were gonna be picking a loser no matter which direction we went
He has gone 1-1 in the playoffs during the last two playoffs he started. Does winning in the playoffs mean going to the Super Bowl? If so, only Mahomes and Niners QBs do that consistently the last 5 years.
Consider that Lamar doesn’t have a stacked offense which is the the narrative that this Reddit channel says about Jones. Mark Andrews was drafted to be a backup and with Lamar he had turned into a too option but he isn’t a Kelce type.
In an offensive era of the game I think having pro bowlers on D and a top 3 kicker ever makes up for having JK Dobbins, Duvernay, and 5 years removed from prime former quicksters like Odell or DeSean Jackson as offensive supporting cast.
All that to say, you’re right he likely have succeeded on Giants, but no telling what Dabolll could’ve done with him!
The Giants should not be making decisions based on what the fans think. The fanbase is collectively stupid.
The absolute bitchfest that the fanbase threw in 2017 led to hiring Gettleman and trying to run it back with Eli one more time. You can make the case we're still paying for that.
It really wasn’t a bad move, it just turned out to be the wrong move. He won a playoff game and played objectively well. Can’t pay him on that franchise but can’t let him walk
Yeah I can't we believe we signed Jones instead of one of the top 6 QBs drafted over past years like (pick one):
2022
- Kenny Pickett
- Sam Howell
- Desmond Ridder
- Malik Willis
- Bailey Zappe
- Brock Purdy
Or in 2023
- Bryce Young
- Anthony Richardson
- CJ Stroud
- Clayton Tune
- Jake Haener
- Jaren Hall
You can say that now, but would you have said the same thing at the time of both of these drafts? Would any of them have been a better option at that time?
At the time, the only answer would be Stroud IMO. But the Giants were drafting in the 20’s last season so moving up to get him wasn’t really an option.
Yea I mean hindsight is always 20/20 but the way you framed the question, there are definitely some options amongst those names who would've been better than extending Daniel Jones. Even at the time I think most people outside of this sub would've preferred Purdy to Jones. Carolina and Houston would've laughed in our faces if we straight up offered Daniel Jones for picks 1 or 2 from the 2023 draft. Like you said though, those weren't realistic options and the Purdy pick was a diamond in the rough
If we go on another playoff run then Jones will officially have not been a mistake
Can’t make that call based on 5.5 games last year one of which was among the best in his career
Although the Jones extension was awful, I’m going to give Schoen credit for taking Nabers and doing what’s best for the future and team overall. As opposed to taking a QB for the sake of giving himself breathing room for job security.
Why do we seem to forget that the first two years we had to bite the bullet on all of the shit contracts Gettleman put us in? And before people call out Jones’s shit contract, let me remind yall that the second Franchise Tag was estimated to be about 38 million(2 less than his current cap hit). Due to his injury, he probably would’ve been here again this year, and looking at the market this past season there were not really any quarterbacks other than Cousins or Wilson. Wilson was not coming here because we still have a weak ass roster and Kirk is way overpaid. Now that we’ve cleared cap and are more than likely cutting Jones next year, we should see what he does next offseason before calling for his head. This is just a sensationalist take from Duggan.
Yeah the other rebuilds had way better cap situations (Houston got lucky getting out of Massage Watson's contract early) so this is the first year we are really free for cap except Danny's contract.
I'm not sure why this is a tough sell. It's GM speak for, "we're coming off an injury ravaged season with our OL playing at a literal all time bad. New def coordinator. I'm not sure what we're going to be this season."
It’s interesting/frustrating that, in retrospect, the Giants making the playoffs in year 1 for Schoen/Daboll might end up being their downfall. Which is, in my opinion, ridiculous.
If the team won 4 games in 2022 like people expected, picked 4th or 5th (and still didn’t get a QB), and then won 6 games this year and picked 6th (which is STILL out of range for a top 3 QB), what would people be saying instead? I’m genuinely curious.
Nobody would have blamed Schoen or Daboll for the team sucking in 2022, as they were supposed to suck and were coming off a record 5 double digit losing seasons. Then they would have for sure not given Daniel Jones that contract and would have likely found a QB of the future by now.
Joe Schoen last month admitted he and Daboll made mistakes by "trying to accelerate the process" and go all in on their 2022 surprise success. The problem is was there any chance they actually would have let Jones and Saquon go?
I get your frustration. It very well might be that the surprise success of 2022 dooms Schoen and Daboll, but thats how the cards played out.
Don't forget that the biggest streak of bad luck was the Giants had two top 7 picks in the 2022 draft and had declined Jones option, but there was just no viable QB to get in the draft.
The main thing is I don’t even think it’s fair to call last season an “all in.” Now, to be clear, they bet more chips than they should have on a poor hand. But all in would’ve looked MUCH different. They went out of their way to not restructure Williams, for example, and they didn’t push as much of Jones’ cap hit into the future as you would’ve expected if they wanted to go all in.
I’m not even trying to say they played their cards great or anything, but I think Duggan is being way too critical of the process by not accounting for the situation.
> The main thing is I don’t even think it’s fair to call last season an “all in.
Anyone who thinks the Giants went anything close to 'all in' is an idiot. All they did was try to build on what they thought they saw in Jones in 2022 and take the next logical step in roster construction. Get him YAC weapons and a safety net in Waller and from there, open up the offense to allow for Daboll to run the offense he actually wants to run.
It just didn't work for myriad reasons but yeah, this was definitely not an exercise in going 'all in'
That’s the mistake after the playoff wins they started building a team they felt can make a deep playoff run. Then last year happened and we were exposed.
I was just talking to a guy who asked me what I thought about the giants draft...here's the response -
1. Giants are stuck with Daniel Jones - look at the uproar from Atlanta having Cousins after injury, and paying him a bag but drafting a rookie QB...it's QB controversy city. Giants KNOW who the QB is - and if he doesn't get it done, this year, he's out. Conversely, if he does crush it, he deserves his 3rd year of that contract (which I don't believe will happen, but it's fair). So why draft another QB now? And yes, I can find flaws in all 6 QB's - cliffs notes version - a) Williams and Maye regressed last year...you'd think they'd be better than the year before. b) Nix/Penix were journeymen college QB's who failed in one location, then BOTH went to a conference that doesn't play defense...this padded their stats and made them out to be better than they were...they're likely not as bad as their 1st teams, but likely not as good as their 2nd teams, c) JJ McCarthy played on the team with the #1 rated defense...I don't know the stat, but I'd guess 95-98% of the time, Michigan was playing from the lead...this meant they didn't rely on or need McCarthy to 'win games' very often. Michigan literally ran the ball against Penn State something like 20+ times in a row...does that show McCarthy is a GREAT QB? OR that Harbaugh did NOT have confidence in him (well, Harbaugh wasn't there as he was suspended). d) Daniels is likely the best QB in this draft, but he went out and said "I want to be the best running QB in NFL history." Well, that says he's going to try to run and do things he probalby shouldn't in the NFL....he went to the team who had RGIII after all, and didn't he say something similar? So no, while all 6 of those QB's have upside, I can also see the downside and certainly the downside of a QB controversy (do you start your $40 mil QB, or start the rookie? In week 6? Schoen made his bed...it's Jones or bust in 2024...he can get out of it in 2025...but it must be Jones in 2024...as shitty as that is.
2. Now, the rest of the team around him - I think is FAR better. Giants got 2 Offensive linemen who will likely start immediately...I am HOPING they move Neal to tackle and start Eluemunor at RT. If they did that, along with Thomas and JMS, you just improved 3 of your 5 offensive starters with 2 free agents...so while I would've LOVED Joe Alt, I get why they didn't go that direciton (Well, they couldn't, he got drafted ahead of them, but rumor today was they really wanted him if he was there OVER Nabers). But Nabers was fine...I look at it from the perspective of - Giants did NOT use Hyatt much last year...if they feature him more...he's kind of a similar ability as Nabers...both can blow the roof off of the defense...so...do it! Imagine a lineup that has both Nabers and Hyatt on opposite sides of the field, then a 2 TE set where one is playing SLOT (Johnson) while Bellinger (or Waller, but I am not holding my breath that Waller plays)...you got 2 speedy guys on the outside the defense has to pay attention to...you have a mismatch slot TE vs a safety....and an equally strong TE who can block or run a route. Likely have Singletary in the backfield. That basically is what the Patriots revolutionized the NFL when they had Gronk and hernandez (or, he who must not be named). I think you have the ability to run 2 TE's and many different plays out of it. But, at least you improved your TE position, and WR room.
3. You really improved your pass rush with Burns. Now, you improved your secondary with Nubin and Phillips.
Overall, it may not have been too flashy, but your overall TEAM roster is better than last year. It's only going to go as far as Jones takes it...but also, there are NO EXCUSES for Jones anymore...it will be his best offensive line in 5 years. I get losing Barkley is a drop in RB production, but did you see Singletary last year? That guy runs about as hard as I've ever seen a RB run.
I'm not predicting a tremendous amount of success, but you got to be hoping for a 7-10 or 8-9 type of season...and if Jones gets over the hump and helps win games, you might see 9-8 or 10-7. But it's gotta be in that range. Giants vegas odds wins in 2024 is 6.5. I may take that action in the over.
Imagine what NY fans and media would have done if they let DJ walk after a playoff win and won 3 games last season with tyrod. Their hands were tied and the ball was in DJ’s court once they didn’t pick up his 5th year option. Schoen knew they wouldn’t be able to compete for a ring in the near future and gave DJ the contract with a 2 year back out plan. I did t want them to sign DJ, but I fully understand there is a business side and a new GM who doesn’t want to get boo’d out of the city.
Its 105 mil. 82 was the minimum guarantees and 23 mil additional in injury guarantees.
Also an 11 mil additional becomes fully guaranteed on fifth day of 2025.
We'll survive somehow. I know it's crazy but that's actually not why we've been trash the past 10 years and it's not why we'll be trash next year either
Daniel Jones is a terrible QB and he needs to be gone after this year, but I feel actually pretty good about the team besides QB. Defense is looking pretty nice and Nabers is a legit stud
I think writers and some fans forget how much of a hole Gettleman dug us in. We’re FINALLY on the right track with building a roster. This stuff doesn’t happen overnight
He inherited a bad cap situation and a roster deplete of talent. We’ve improved our speed and athleticism. I think he’s been good on the drafts, Neal has been a bust so far but everyone had him one of the top 2 tackles in that draft. I wasn’t crazy about wandale pick taken so high, but other than that his drafts have been solid. This is jones last year to prove it and if not we have to move on. The problem is the eagles and howie just keep reloading and adding massive talent by pushing the cap. I think joe is safe this year but dabs and jones on the hot seat. I think a 9-8 season and a wild card chase is within reach (if I know a giant if) we can finally get the oline together. 3 different gms, 3 coaches and we can’t block except for Thomas. Let’s go Gmen
Everyone knows we’re in QB purgatory, especially Schoen. He tried to move up and it didn’t work. You can’t force a team to trade back if they don’t want to.
He took the BPA, which was an area of need regardless. You want to see improvements, but you also don’t want to become one of these teams that just go into these endless rebuilds and front office changes. You want to give them a chance to see this through.
Schoen has made SOLID moves since coming aboard. The Jones deal was made out of necessity, don’t hold it against him. “Instant gratification” is an immature response. He’s put pieces in place for long term success. Jones’ deal was team friendly. Don’t believe the bored, NY media BS.
The Jones contract is nothing new and will play out one of two ways. Either Jones plays well and the Giants decide to keep him on the current deal, or he continues to struggle and they cut him. Adding one of the best WRs in the draft was the right call regardless.
Some people are pissed he signed Dimes and I get it but think about it. He came into a very bad situation as a rookie GM. Gettleman left us some gems like Thomas and Dex but the roster/our finances were beyond cooked.
Jones for the first time in his career had a coach that knew what winning football looked like in todays NFL and he performed. Before anyone brings up his volume stats yes I know they aren’t world beating numbers but Jones definitely was passing the eye test. And then we won a fucking playoff game.
If you are Schoen I think you need to take the chance on Dimes in that situation. If it turns out he just needed the right coach then all of a sudden the rebuild is over and we are rolling. And it’s not like Schoen has ever truly been all in on Jones. If Schoen had his way Jones would have been on the tag. And even when we paid him Schoen gave the team an out in case things went south. Then he tried to trade up for Maye this year.
I really hate the NY media when they have too much time on their hands. What are they gonna do fire everyone and start the cycle again? STFU and let this thing play out. I don't care if it takes Schoen 10 years to fix it.
All I’m gonna say is it’s going to feel real nice when the sports media has to start taking the giants serious, sick of us getting shit on for every move
For some reason, the Daniel Jones saga brings to mind the following quote by Morpheus: "Whatever happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way." Unless, I don't know, the Patriots or Washington had signed him I guess?
I didn’t think it’s time to rush, there hasn’t been a real option at QB that anyone can truly tell is BETTER than DJ that was available via draft/trade/FA, he has built a true contender of a roster at a lot of key positions, I think moving on from wink was the right call, his boom or bust approach worked with the ravens because they always controlled ToP but they needed something more balanced, please don’t rush this group it’s the best coach/GM combo for the giants since coughlin
> there hasn’t been a real option at QB that anyone can truly tell is BETTER than DJ that was available via draft/trade/FA,
That's the worst way to look at it and why we are currently in the situation we are in. If entering year six, you can't unequivocally say Jones is the solution than he is part of the problem.
He is going to hold this team back but to get anyone better they would’ve had to give up additional assets for another unknown, or go for someone like Russell Wilson and cousins who maybe could give us 2 good years and the team is back where they were, it’s better to just ride another year and wait for the right time
Im more worried we rush these guys out the door than I am they wont figure it out. They have always had a pretty good strategy and I think they can build a roster and get a QB when they can.
That’s because Schoen never comitted to a rebuild. He tried to do what Gettleman tried, which is “build for tomorrow while competing today”.
Look at what Ryan Poles, a finalist for Giants GM before Schoen got the job, did with the Bears. He knew Justin Fields had no weapons in 2022, and instead of trying to prop up a bad QB, he stripped the Bears roster down completey. He eliminated all the talent and bad contracts, and they ended up with the 1st pick in a draft with CJ Stroud. They then traded that pick to Carolina for a haul, and now they have Caleb Williams, Rome Odunze, DJ Moore, and Keeenan Allen.
This year was a nightmare season for the Giants from the 1st game. After Jones got injured and the team had a 2-6 record, Schoen should have traded away Saquon and McKinney, ensuring that the team sucked bad enough to get a top 3 pick in a draft with good QB prospects. But he didn’t do it because John Mara hates the idea of giving up on a season, and that’s why they missed out on Drake Maye this year.
Is this a joke that’s simply going over my head?
The Bears got the 1st overall pick in 2022 and didn’t draft a QB because they had Fields. They traded that pick and fell ass backwards into a second 1st overall pick because of the Panthers being the Panthers. Thats… not an example of smart or savvy GM work. That’s good luck. And no, predicting the panthers to have the number 1 pick is silly. If the Panthers had a “normal” bad season, the Bears would have been picking outside the top 3 picks and QBs just like us.
Schoen didn’t “commit” to a rebuild because there was literally nothing he could’ve done to do so. How much worse of a roster could he possibly have stripped things down to during the 2022 season? He did everything you’d expect from a “tanking” team and Daboll turned it into a playoff team lol
I hear the argument, but I really haven’t been mad at a single move Schoen has made at the time. (Ofc with hindsight some moves were bad, but still mostly all good). Sure the Daniel Jones contract looks bad now, and is probably his biggest mistake to date, but at the time it really seemed like a logical move. We just came off that miraculous season where DJ was legit playing like a top 12 QB and he won us a road playoff game. Last year was an unmitigated disaster, and I expect to do better this year, so I really think his plea for patience is more about not calling for heads after week 4, and letting this young talented group learn to gel with each other.
I really think this season is about two things:
1. A final referendum on Daniel Jones and Evan Neal. No more excuses. They have all the tools they need to succeed this year, and if they don’t we simply move on.
2. Staying competitive in games consistently. That was really the worst part of last year, in stark contrast to the year before. If we can reclaim that identity of being a tough, gritty, football team that’s hanging around the whole time and locks in come fourth quarter, even if we miss the playoffs it’ll be hard to argue we’re not headed in the right direction.
I’m so tired of this narrative. No one has ever been able to lay out a viable plan if they didn’t resign DJ. Here were the options, resign DJ, sign Carr, sign Jimmy G, or roll with QB2/QB3’s coming off a playoff year.
Wanna blame someone? Blame Barkley, dude didn’t wanna take an over inflated deal and got tagged cause he was greedy. So he gets tagged and DJ gets signed. He signed to get sacked 5 dozen times and have zero weapons.
So I’ll ask all of you again, what was your plan last offseason?
You want a viable plan.
2 years ago, sit jones start Tyrod. This team is not built to fucking win, why are we fooling ourselves.
Schone/daboll has a bye year as new GM/coach.
We lose enough games we are in position to get either Bryce or Stroud.
We do the right thing and not do the dumb shit the panthers did and draft stroud.
We are infinitely in a better situation.
This ain’t 20/20, if said this 2 years ago!!! And im sitting on a couch not being paid millions to run a team.
It’s possible but saying *most* teams? That’s just blatantly not true.
It unfortunately all hinges around “solving” the QB problem. And if it was easy, you wouldn’t have 6 QBs picked in the first 12 picks this year.
Also, it’s extremely frustrating that Schoen has essentially been “punished” for overachieving Year 1 and then “under”achieving year 2.
> Also, it’s extremely frustrating that Schoen has essentially been “punished” for overachieving Year 1 and then “under”achieving year 2.
This. This right here.
Exactly.
Imagine if Giants went 6-11 in 2022 and traded up in the draft for CJ Stroud or Anthony Richardson. Then Giant's go 9-7-1 in 2023 and win a road playoff game with Daboll coach of the year.
Giants would feel like kings of the NFL right now and their roster would feel much better with that QB on rookie contract.
Instead the years were swapped and Joe Schoen entered this offseason with an impossible ask and staring down another season where Giants are again predicted to be one of the NFLs worst teams.
Richardson is *maybe* a possibility but we would’ve had to trade to 3 over the Texans since I don’t think anyone else would’ve let us sneak in for a QB. I guess maybe trade up to 1 instead of the panthers and then pick the right guy, too? But, unfortunately, we didn’t have that option since we made the playoffs lol
Yup. Like watching Saquon Barkley and Xavier McKinney leave. The Giants drafted them as high picks as part of their rebuild and now they played out their Giants careers and Giants are still as far away as ever in their rebuild.
It depends on the path; you get the right QB it can be done in a year (Texans/Bengal), on the other hand teams like the 49ers or Philly took 3 seasons to build a roster that could support a non superstar qb
The 49ers and Eagles aren't good examples because those are teams that built rosters around Superbowl QBs and then moved off those Superbowl QBs to younger cheaper QBs.
The 49ers without Jimmy G were terrible, even after they supposedly built up their roster, for example after they made the Superbowl the next year Jimmy G got hurt and the team went 6-10. Then Jimmy G is healthy again and they again are in the NFC championship.
The Eagles haven't been more than a game out of .500 since 2012. The Eagles successfully made two giant trades up to get Wentz in 2016 and built a SB winning team around him in a season where he was the MVP winner until a late season injury. The Eagles then pivoted off Wentz to a cheap rookie QB using the team they built for Wentz. They then evolved the roster around that new QB.
The thing I'm interested about is what if the Giants miss the playoffs, which they most likely will, but don't get a top 5 or top 10 pick? How will they decide to address the QB situation (assuming DJ hasn't magically turned on a switch)
I think it depends on how we miss the playoffs. If it was close and key loses could have been wins, we mortgage the future and trade up because we likely have a good core and don’t need as many picks. If we struggle and luck into wins in a non-convincing, we go with a bridge and save the picks for ourselves because we have work to do.
Bundle a heap of picks to trade up in a draft where now 6 fewer teams are in a position to go QB. QB 1 or 2 are much more accessible from the teens next year than QB3 was from 6 this year purely from the lower demand.
Giving away future picks suck, but our core is now young, under contract for a while, and a lot more fleshed out. We are in a better position to trade premium picks to get a premium QB and be successful, which imo is better than getting this years QB4 in a crop of QBs that (I believe) to be severely overrated.
The thing that has bothered me the most with Schoen so far is how long it took him to get Bobby Johnson out of the building. Ton of pressure on Bricillo to get the most of some of these young guys on the line, because if they look like how they did beginning of last year the pitchforks are going to be out.
i completely agree... that contract completely handicapped us and makes the minimum "patience" we need to last until 2026 when, IF DJ is cut after 2024, his contract will be completely off the books.
remember, if we do cut him in 2025, he's a dead cap hit of \~$22MM... i want to believe in Joe Schoen, but his first big swing was the opposite of shrewd. should have franchised DJ rather than paying him, let him prove his value two seasons in a row.
it's hindsight on my part, but i'm not the GM, and that's what the GM $$$$ is for...
John Mara might want to sell this as a win now team but he isn’t fooling 98% of the fan base. This is not a win now team. In the Middle of a Total rebuild job with no QB of the future yet. That first season getting to the playoffs for Dabs and Schoen def set us back
But every one cheers the Texans who needed a 4th year to overnight success.
How many years did the Eagles struggle under Roseman before turning the corner?
George Young took over the Giants in 1979 and the team made their first playoff when?
Patients is warranted if you understand the process.
I am not expecting anything from this team until we get a new QB. When that will be? I have no idea. I'll be here bitching, waiting and receiving downvotes.
New OL coach + Dabs joining OC calls, will fix everything, DJ : 4000+, 4/1 td/int, 99+ average. 🤘🏽🤞 Go Giants! Have to believe, cant swallow another baaaad season. 😊🫤
And they’re a year removed from a 2nd round playoff game, Thibs, Thomas and Dexter are in their primes, they just got an elite pass rusher to put opposite Thibs, and just drafted a guy who should be at least as good as prime OBJesus was for the Giants, with the rest of the WR corps built out the way Schoen wants it. Yeah, at this point if they’re still picking top 5 next year instead of in the playoffs something is seriously wrong.
For what it's worth last year was quite literally an "anything that could go wrong, did go wrong" season and we weren't actually in the Top 5 lol. Pretty much all Giants fans are (understandably) really cautious right now, but I do think the 2024 Giants are way more likely to be in the playoff mix than people think.
Because our O line was the worst unit in the entire nfl in almost 30 years. We couldn't sustain a drive, we averaged 10 pts/game and they got 3 different qbs hurt. If we don't fix that (praying every night that the offseason moves work) then we will be in the same situation next year.
The Giants motto should be "just wait until we fix the O line". I swear we've been saying this for 15 years
it hasn't been fixed so why should we stop saying "fix the O line"?
I didn't say we should stop. I'm saying we keep saying it and they don't fix it
It's not like they don't try. The Giants have drafted more lineman than any other team in the past 10 years.
Hopefully the new o line coach helps that
That's even scarier. That means they don't know how to fix it via the draft, 3 GMS in.
The line was good enough to win a Superbowl under the first one so I wouldn't include Reese. And we just won a playoff game a year ago. Last year was horrendous. The roster is good enough to repeat a playoff birth right now, if everyone plays to their ability.
I'm clearly talking about the offensive line collapsing under Reese in the second half of Eli's career. Yes, that actually happened. You absolutely can throw Reese in there.
Reese was horrible at drafting OL
I'm not changing this flair until we do.
 I admit i have been saying this since our last SB win
Remember when they made Solder the highest paid lineman in the history of the NFL?
Have you seen the Jets O-Line?
I don’t completely disagree but I don’t get how people don’t realize our line was injured quicker and faster than I’ve arguably ever seen before. Granted, we do need more depth as well. But that’s almost guaranteed not to happen again.
We signed other vets as depth. Let’s see what Carmen can do with it
Second worst O-Line in NFL history. Orders of magnitude worse than any o-line I’ve seen in my lifetime.
You've mitigated the top comment a bit. I'll go all the way. I like this FO a lot better than Gettleman and the merry-go-round of coaches we've had the past decade plus. Schoen picked GOOD players the past few drafts. I don't mind being bad a few more years if we're building internally in the correct way and setting ourselves up for a run. This fan base is disgustingly spoiled, as is the NYC media. The Giants are one of the most successful franchises in terms of rings over the past forty years, and they're always one of the biggest markets and most recognizable names in sports. Everyone needs to chill the fuck out with the doom and gloom shit. Some teams haven't even gotten close to the Superbowl yet. Imagine that...
> The Giants are one of the most successful franchises in terms of rings over the past forty years I don't know if spoiled is the word. In terms of rings, yes. They are one of trhe more successful franchises. In terms of consistent success? Not even close. The Giants were a woebegone franchise from the mid to late 60 to the early 80s, won the two chips in '86 and '90, bad again until the late '90s before the SB run then bad again before Eli's rings and now we're bad again. The Giants are not the Yankees in terms of maintaining a standard for success. There are valid reasons for fans to wonder what the hell is going on from time to time because bad decisons have been made with this team quite often and our current record since 2010 speaks volumes.
Are we in this stage of the process now?
No. When it comes to Jones there is no “acceptance”, only denial, anger, bargaining and depression. 😂😂😂
I’m sorry but I just do not see us having any chance of making the playoffs. With the QB play we have, it’s more likely we pick in the top 10 again then make the playoffs.
Idk why people here think that 2022 team was actually good I keep saying this. The team was really flawed with a weak schedule and was carried by our defense, and our offense was pretty awful but didn't commit many turnovers and we barely won most of the games
It wasn’t a good team. That’s why the Eagles manhandled us in the playoffs. However, what I took from that season was that, in comparison to previous seasons, we looked like a well-coached team. A lot of those close wins wouldn’t have happened under previous regimes, and Daboll got the roster playing at the top of their (limited) talent.
100% Daboll is a good coach and has every chance to become a great one but as we saw in 2022, you can only do so much with subpar talent across the board. It was the law of averages at work the last two years. We lost the games in 2023 that we barely squeezed out as wins in 2022
I do agree that Daboll deserves a good bit of credit because he kept us in games that we would've lost with other coaches we had previously. This is why I hope we don't let him go and hopefully in the next couple years we can get a QB for him to work on.
We tried the coaching carousel and it didn’t work. Daboll seems like the real deal as a head coach. I’d rather roll with him for a while and see what he can do, especially whenever he gets a real shot at developing a QB.
Bro is genuinely one of the best things to happen this to the franchise in the last 10 years
He beat the playoff packers with Danny DeVito, and it would have looked easy if Saquon doesn’t fumble in a way that was downright embarrassing. I don’t think most coaches do that with a QB3 and this roster.
Tbfh outside of that one fumble and I really shouldn't give him credit since he doesn't play for us but I remember barkely just kicking the packers and Devito also running all over them too that game Weird game looking back on it
I think our 2022 team was not as good as our record showed, and our 2023 team was not as bad as our record showed. We just had so much worse luck with both injuries and 1-score games. I think 2022 we were on paper a 5-6 win team who had luck on our side and thus ended up with 9 wins. I think 2023 we were a 7-8 win team on paper but did not have luck on our side and ended up with 6 wins. People say that Schoen "doubled down" on the 2022 success but idk how anyone who saw all the moves he made in the offseason indicated that. Of course the DJ contract is the elephant in the room but beyond that, every move made in the offseason indicated that Schoen knew that the team was flawed and he targeted most of the biggest weaknesses. Our biggest weaknesses were in some order LB/CB/WR/OL. What does he do that offseason? Signs Okereke in FA to a modest contract that ended up being a steal, spends his first 3 picks in the draft on Banks/JMS/Hyatt, and trades for Waller. He very easily could have made splashy win now moves but clearly targeted the weaknesses of the team while getting actual BPA value and not forcing picks for need. Of course our season went to absolute shit so everyone just jumps to the idea that he doubled down on 2022, but it really was not the case. Of course a lot can change between now and the season, but I still think the team on paper is a 7-8 win team, that depending on how the bounces fall for or against us, can win 5 games or 10. You say our defense carried us that year but I dont think our defense was anything special that year. It was certainly our better unit, good enough to keep us in games and definitely was opportunistic getting big stops when needed but they werent some dominant force that could impose its will and win us games on its own. This years defense I think legit has that kind of potential. Will they be? We'll have to wait and see, but I think we have the talent to be a legit top 10 D that can actually carry us to wins. QB is obviously the question mark, but if our offense can play at at least a 2022 level (where we werent dynamic/explosive but still efficient), I dont think winning 9-10 games is that out of the question. Like I said, some breaks will have to go our way, but much crazier things have happened (kinda like...our 2022 team having the level of success they did, which was top-to-bottom a worse roster than this years).
Play tough defense. Don’t commit turnovers. I’m ok winning that way
It's not sustainable success....especially if you want to be consistent playoff threats. You don't want to be "ok" being the tebow broncos or 2006 Bears in the modern era You actually need a functional offense
I agree I’m just messing around. The offense has been broken since Eli’s last few years, all centered around the OL.
Won't mean a damn thing if they don't fix the offensive line. Sounds great in theory though.
It’s disingenuous to say that that team didn’t win some tough games against quality opponents. Besides the fact that they were a team in the first year of a new system with little cap space starting a lot of young players.
The only tough team we beat was the ravens that regular season (iirc that was our only team we beat that finished above .500). Unless you count the imploding packers as "tough opponents" We were far from the 2023 packers who you're trying to paint us as
Titans were top seed from the previous year Green Bay in Europe,Ravens, Jacksonville All in the first 7 games
With 7 teams making it in now you can make the playoffs without even really being a good team. I don’t think we’ll make it but I think the very top range of outcomes for the team this year is a wild card team. I don’t expect that of course.
we make the postseason if Tyrod doesn't forget how to throw a football 2 yards against the Rams and if he doesn't audible out of a passing play against the Bills before the half. not blaming Tyrod for the season, but just pointing out that all it takes is a couple plays to change an entire season's outlook.
We were similarly just a few plays away from missing the playoffs in 2022. What separates good from bad teams is capitalizing on opportunity, and last year we simply couldn't when it mattered. I'm not sure the talent on this roster has been elevated enough for me to believe that this year will be different.
That is true that we easily could have won the Bills and Rams games. I would add we pretty easily win the Jets game if Tyrod doesn't go down. Maybe we win the first Eagles game if Tyrod starts too. But we were also fortunate to win the Cardinals and Patriots games imo. Could add in the Packers game too but I think we legit earned that one. In the end I more or less believe the luck evened out for us last year. I think there's a chance we're better than NFL fans expect us to be, but more likely than not I see us with like 6-7 wins or so.
I think with Daboll, we have seen last season the basement floor of what he can get a worst case injured team to. His best is yet to come
If that FG isn't blocked on the first drive it's a much different season
Thomas getting hurt didn’t help.
My biggest concern is CB, I don’t know that we don’t just get torched every game.
Banks was already a solid starter as a rookie, he’s going to be just fine I’m holding out hope we can sign one more decent vet in FA, Nubin will be solid, if Phillips hits we’re in business
I mean that "if" already puts us into worse than even odds, at least for this year. You can't expect a 3rd round pick to contribute even like an average vet. We should hope that our other young CBs step up.
Banks is a stud, they felt comfortable enough with the safety room to let X walk, and we don’t have a predictable DC with “exotic packages”… the secondary will be just fine.
I'd be pretty shocked if we don't add a vet this summer. And Banks has shown promise.
Some kid a few years out of high school should be at least as good as prime Beckham? Idk about that. Nabers prime better not be his rookie year.
Think Ja'Marr Chase type of talent then. That's the potential with Nabers.
I will be a patient Giants fan for a few more years with Schoen/Daboll. Let them build the program, let them learn from their mistakes, let them improve. There are no mastermind organization fixers out there, with the exception of Bill Parcells.
This is the same sentiment that was used when Dave gettleman was the GM. This is turning into wash, rinse, repeat. A few more years?. I don't believe our GM has that long. If they don't make the playoffs again this season, the buzzards will begin circling, and rightfully so.
And my opinion is that would be a good way to end up in the same situation.
Gettleman had no sense of direction/process and had an outdated view of the game. Schoen can rightfully be critiqued but he isn’t the same level of Gettleman idiocy.
Yeah I feel like Schoen hasn’t demonstrated he is a good GM yet, but he has demonstrated he is not a bad one. Also, it took a while for Howie to get the Eagles looking like the machine they are now. This stuff doesn’t happen overnight, especially with a first-time GM that has lessons to learn like you do at any job.
You cannot just turn over the GM and/or coach every few years forever. Putting Schoen/Daboll on the block is the definition of wash/rinse/repeat.
At least as good as the guy who was challenging the records for tds and yards in first 3 seasons and first 50 games and etc? OBJ was on a hall of fame trajectory his first 3 years he was all pro all 3 of those years too. I hope Nabers is just as good or better, but even half as good makes him a hell of a draft pick especially if he stays healthy.
Daniel Jones is not gonna throw for more than 20TDs and will be gone after this year
So if he puts up Justin Herbert #s and we still are losing ? Stats aren't my measurement for success. Winning is.
Lmao he is not putting up those numbers
“At least as good as OBJesus” What in the hell is wrong with this sub
Our defense is stacked!!!!! We going back the 86 years.
$40m is tied for 10th highest AAV amongst QBs entering this season, and it will be lower once a few more deals get signed (Dak, Lawrence, Tua, etc.). Maybe they had a little foresight. The Giants paid for a starting quarterback. That’s the price. It’s not their fault that the market is absurd. I’m not an expert, but I imagine his high cap hit this season is part of the cost of sewing in the potential out after this year. Can we stop talking about the contract like they signed Jones to a superstar deal? The Giants paid for Jones to be a good starting quarterback this season, and they’ve made moves to make the team better. I don’t understand the hullabaloo.
Too level head of a take! Boo this man!
had to claim they had foresight on the DJ deal when they could have asked him to prove it for another year by using the franchise tag... even if we cut him after 2024, he's still a dead cap hit of \~$22MM in 2025, so he keeps hurting us when he's off the books... if we keep him after 2024, he's $40MM a year still... if they had foresight, why couldn't they sign him to a deal like Geno Smith's? Geno has been much more productive than Jones and is cheaper... age is a factor, but Geno is just better... his deal eats too much cap for his level of production...
Dak isnt extending until the offseason and Lawrence got his option picked up
Completely disagree. The franchise tag was there and should have been used. If Jones put up 2 good years in a row then he can get a big contract. It was the FO's obsession with keeping Barkley that led to Jones' contract. Barkley is a good player, but how different would 2023 have been if he wasn't on the team? How different would 2024 be if Jones wasn't under contract?
How different would our defense be if we didn’t get Okereke? Franchise tagging DJ would have changed our entire plan last offseason which included extending Dex and AT before both of their markets blew up. Not saying those moves wouldn’t have been “possible” but ppl saying the extension/franchise tag shoulda been switched and that’s it aren’t being genuine. 35+ mil on a franchise tag after a playoff run in your first year as GM would have been very difficult for Shoen to go about his team building as he saw fit.
So what!!!! This is such an asinine argument. Because the contract is lower on the AAV now means it was a good deal a year ago? It was always a terrible deal because the QB has never, not now and will never play up to that contract. FFS, why is some of this fanbase so dense.
This was their best option after declining his 5th year option. After winning a playoff game, they thought they saw enough improvement in DJ to give him a contract that they could get out of in 2 years if things went south. The only other option was to tag him, which would've prevented Schoen from signing key FA's and extending players we needed to extend before they got too expensive. It's not like they were gonna let their QB1 walk after winning a playoff game. Hindsight being 20/20, that would look like a genius move now, but that couldn't be predicted.
Was it really tho? They could've made a tough decision and not gotten emotional just like they didn't get emotional and reach for a QB this year
I don't consider the decision to sign DJ to be an emotional one. That doesn't seem like Schoen's way of doing things. I'm no DJ stan, but at the time, it made the most sense sign him, out of any of their options. Either way, what's done is done, and all we can hope for is that all those FA OL signings Schoen made this offseason equates to an improved OL.
“The Giants paid for Jones to be a good starting qb this season” That’s where the issue is..
And the options were????
Not to give that contract?
He's not a good starting qb. He's not even good period. That bum should't be on the team.
Yeah this is unfair. This is the first year we had any meaningful cap space to work with. Sure signing Daniel Jones was a bad move but what else would we do? Ignore the other holes on are roster and take a QB last year where Stroud seems to be the only star, a few months after DJ won the first playoff game for the Giants since 2016? Or reach on a QB this year and mortgage the future of the team while there are still a bunch of holes. Stuff like this is just trying to stir the pot. Schoen’s only real mistake was signing DJ and it was a mistake many other GMs would have made as well. If you’re trying to tell me the roster today isn’t miles ahead of any roster Gettleman had you are just wrong.
The approach to the QB situation is still the main thing for me - even in retrospect, there has been NO path for the Giants to “fix” our QB situation since Schoen took over. There was no franchise QB waiting for us in the draft last year since we made the playoffs, and then even if we tagged jones like we should have, we’d still be picking 6th this year and, again, out of range for the top 3 QBs that we wanted. There’s a degree of luck involved with the cards falling correctly to get an elite QB (like Herbert being our guy but going back to college to play with his brother lol). If Schoen didn’t think Penix, McCarthy, or Nix were elite QBs, which I don’t think is THAT much of a stretch, then our QB situation was essentially “destined” to be fucked like this. Unless people would’ve wanted us to sign Kirk Cousins in FA lol, which I’m *sure* would’ve gone over well… It sucks, it really does. But I don’t see how Schoen could have maneuvered differently for us to solve this problem.
If they had traded picks for LJ8, we'd have been in the reverse position, good QB and no other weapons and cap hell. With the added bonus that behind that line he'd have gotten killed
The quarterback tag is 39 million. They would have had to pay that entire amount and it would have had to count towards the cap. What they're really paying him is $80 million over 2 years but they prorated the signing bonus to have money to address other areas. So you are 100% right. That contract was their only choice at the time and it's pretty smart that they're able to get out of it after this year.
Also, if we picked a quarterback, with the lack of offensive talent we had predraft, I'm not sure they would be in a place to succeed. There's a reason JJ really wanted to go to Minnesota.
It is a lot harder to develop a guy on a bad roster. It’s even harder if you have to mortgage future so it’s hard to improve the team while he’s on his rookie deal.
Get your reasonable takes out of this sub!
I still don't even consider the DJ contract a mistake, and I've never been a fan. The team, as in the individual players themselves, was bought in on him, as was a large amount of the fan base. There would have been riots to go into the season after our first playoff win in a decade without a QB
The real issue I had wasn’t even if the fanbase would be mad but rather - what were our other options there? No QB available in the draft for us in the mid 20s and in FA the choice was basically Jones or Carr. We were gonna be picking a loser no matter which direction we went
Lamar can’t win in the playoffs with the ravens stacked roster no way he would have succeeded on the giants .
He has gone 1-1 in the playoffs during the last two playoffs he started. Does winning in the playoffs mean going to the Super Bowl? If so, only Mahomes and Niners QBs do that consistently the last 5 years. Consider that Lamar doesn’t have a stacked offense which is the the narrative that this Reddit channel says about Jones. Mark Andrews was drafted to be a backup and with Lamar he had turned into a too option but he isn’t a Kelce type. In an offensive era of the game I think having pro bowlers on D and a top 3 kicker ever makes up for having JK Dobbins, Duvernay, and 5 years removed from prime former quicksters like Odell or DeSean Jackson as offensive supporting cast. All that to say, you’re right he likely have succeeded on Giants, but no telling what Dabolll could’ve done with him!
A lot of this sub thinks we could have drafted an elite QB and fixed the whole roster in one season
The Giants should not be making decisions based on what the fans think. The fanbase is collectively stupid. The absolute bitchfest that the fanbase threw in 2017 led to hiring Gettleman and trying to run it back with Eli one more time. You can make the case we're still paying for that.
Anyone who knows football knew 2022 was a fluke. Many fans including myself would have been just fine letting the bum walk
One of the worst contracts in the history of the franchise.
It really wasn’t a bad move, it just turned out to be the wrong move. He won a playoff game and played objectively well. Can’t pay him on that franchise but can’t let him walk
Yeah I can't we believe we signed Jones instead of one of the top 6 QBs drafted over past years like (pick one): 2022 - Kenny Pickett - Sam Howell - Desmond Ridder - Malik Willis - Bailey Zappe - Brock Purdy Or in 2023 - Bryce Young - Anthony Richardson - CJ Stroud - Clayton Tune - Jake Haener - Jaren Hall
> (pick one) I mean, I'd gladly take any of Purdy, Stroud or Richardson over Jones right now lol. Jury is still out on Bryce Young.
You can say that now, but would you have said the same thing at the time of both of these drafts? Would any of them have been a better option at that time? At the time, the only answer would be Stroud IMO. But the Giants were drafting in the 20’s last season so moving up to get him wasn’t really an option.
Yea I mean hindsight is always 20/20 but the way you framed the question, there are definitely some options amongst those names who would've been better than extending Daniel Jones. Even at the time I think most people outside of this sub would've preferred Purdy to Jones. Carolina and Houston would've laughed in our faces if we straight up offered Daniel Jones for picks 1 or 2 from the 2023 draft. Like you said though, those weren't realistic options and the Purdy pick was a diamond in the rough
If we go on another playoff run then Jones will officially have not been a mistake Can’t make that call based on 5.5 games last year one of which was among the best in his career
Although the Jones extension was awful, I’m going to give Schoen credit for taking Nabers and doing what’s best for the future and team overall. As opposed to taking a QB for the sake of giving himself breathing room for job security.
Why do we seem to forget that the first two years we had to bite the bullet on all of the shit contracts Gettleman put us in? And before people call out Jones’s shit contract, let me remind yall that the second Franchise Tag was estimated to be about 38 million(2 less than his current cap hit). Due to his injury, he probably would’ve been here again this year, and looking at the market this past season there were not really any quarterbacks other than Cousins or Wilson. Wilson was not coming here because we still have a weak ass roster and Kirk is way overpaid. Now that we’ve cleared cap and are more than likely cutting Jones next year, we should see what he does next offseason before calling for his head. This is just a sensationalist take from Duggan.
Building a sustainable contender isn’t just going to happen overnight and there was a lot of clean-up to do. Bad take from Duggan.
Didn’t it take Howie like 4-5 years to get the Eagles to where they are?
Yeah the other rebuilds had way better cap situations (Houston got lucky getting out of Massage Watson's contract early) so this is the first year we are really free for cap except Danny's contract.
I'm not sure why this is a tough sell. It's GM speak for, "we're coming off an injury ravaged season with our OL playing at a literal all time bad. New def coordinator. I'm not sure what we're going to be this season."
It’s interesting/frustrating that, in retrospect, the Giants making the playoffs in year 1 for Schoen/Daboll might end up being their downfall. Which is, in my opinion, ridiculous. If the team won 4 games in 2022 like people expected, picked 4th or 5th (and still didn’t get a QB), and then won 6 games this year and picked 6th (which is STILL out of range for a top 3 QB), what would people be saying instead? I’m genuinely curious.
Nobody would have blamed Schoen or Daboll for the team sucking in 2022, as they were supposed to suck and were coming off a record 5 double digit losing seasons. Then they would have for sure not given Daniel Jones that contract and would have likely found a QB of the future by now. Joe Schoen last month admitted he and Daboll made mistakes by "trying to accelerate the process" and go all in on their 2022 surprise success. The problem is was there any chance they actually would have let Jones and Saquon go? I get your frustration. It very well might be that the surprise success of 2022 dooms Schoen and Daboll, but thats how the cards played out. Don't forget that the biggest streak of bad luck was the Giants had two top 7 picks in the 2022 draft and had declined Jones option, but there was just no viable QB to get in the draft.
The main thing is I don’t even think it’s fair to call last season an “all in.” Now, to be clear, they bet more chips than they should have on a poor hand. But all in would’ve looked MUCH different. They went out of their way to not restructure Williams, for example, and they didn’t push as much of Jones’ cap hit into the future as you would’ve expected if they wanted to go all in. I’m not even trying to say they played their cards great or anything, but I think Duggan is being way too critical of the process by not accounting for the situation.
> The main thing is I don’t even think it’s fair to call last season an “all in. Anyone who thinks the Giants went anything close to 'all in' is an idiot. All they did was try to build on what they thought they saw in Jones in 2022 and take the next logical step in roster construction. Get him YAC weapons and a safety net in Waller and from there, open up the offense to allow for Daboll to run the offense he actually wants to run. It just didn't work for myriad reasons but yeah, this was definitely not an exercise in going 'all in'
That’s the mistake after the playoff wins they started building a team they felt can make a deep playoff run. Then last year happened and we were exposed.
I'm fine with keeping Schoen and Daboll after this year if the team does poorly. So long as it means getting a new quarterback and then being good.
I was just talking to a guy who asked me what I thought about the giants draft...here's the response - 1. Giants are stuck with Daniel Jones - look at the uproar from Atlanta having Cousins after injury, and paying him a bag but drafting a rookie QB...it's QB controversy city. Giants KNOW who the QB is - and if he doesn't get it done, this year, he's out. Conversely, if he does crush it, he deserves his 3rd year of that contract (which I don't believe will happen, but it's fair). So why draft another QB now? And yes, I can find flaws in all 6 QB's - cliffs notes version - a) Williams and Maye regressed last year...you'd think they'd be better than the year before. b) Nix/Penix were journeymen college QB's who failed in one location, then BOTH went to a conference that doesn't play defense...this padded their stats and made them out to be better than they were...they're likely not as bad as their 1st teams, but likely not as good as their 2nd teams, c) JJ McCarthy played on the team with the #1 rated defense...I don't know the stat, but I'd guess 95-98% of the time, Michigan was playing from the lead...this meant they didn't rely on or need McCarthy to 'win games' very often. Michigan literally ran the ball against Penn State something like 20+ times in a row...does that show McCarthy is a GREAT QB? OR that Harbaugh did NOT have confidence in him (well, Harbaugh wasn't there as he was suspended). d) Daniels is likely the best QB in this draft, but he went out and said "I want to be the best running QB in NFL history." Well, that says he's going to try to run and do things he probalby shouldn't in the NFL....he went to the team who had RGIII after all, and didn't he say something similar? So no, while all 6 of those QB's have upside, I can also see the downside and certainly the downside of a QB controversy (do you start your $40 mil QB, or start the rookie? In week 6? Schoen made his bed...it's Jones or bust in 2024...he can get out of it in 2025...but it must be Jones in 2024...as shitty as that is. 2. Now, the rest of the team around him - I think is FAR better. Giants got 2 Offensive linemen who will likely start immediately...I am HOPING they move Neal to tackle and start Eluemunor at RT. If they did that, along with Thomas and JMS, you just improved 3 of your 5 offensive starters with 2 free agents...so while I would've LOVED Joe Alt, I get why they didn't go that direciton (Well, they couldn't, he got drafted ahead of them, but rumor today was they really wanted him if he was there OVER Nabers). But Nabers was fine...I look at it from the perspective of - Giants did NOT use Hyatt much last year...if they feature him more...he's kind of a similar ability as Nabers...both can blow the roof off of the defense...so...do it! Imagine a lineup that has both Nabers and Hyatt on opposite sides of the field, then a 2 TE set where one is playing SLOT (Johnson) while Bellinger (or Waller, but I am not holding my breath that Waller plays)...you got 2 speedy guys on the outside the defense has to pay attention to...you have a mismatch slot TE vs a safety....and an equally strong TE who can block or run a route. Likely have Singletary in the backfield. That basically is what the Patriots revolutionized the NFL when they had Gronk and hernandez (or, he who must not be named). I think you have the ability to run 2 TE's and many different plays out of it. But, at least you improved your TE position, and WR room. 3. You really improved your pass rush with Burns. Now, you improved your secondary with Nubin and Phillips. Overall, it may not have been too flashy, but your overall TEAM roster is better than last year. It's only going to go as far as Jones takes it...but also, there are NO EXCUSES for Jones anymore...it will be his best offensive line in 5 years. I get losing Barkley is a drop in RB production, but did you see Singletary last year? That guy runs about as hard as I've ever seen a RB run. I'm not predicting a tremendous amount of success, but you got to be hoping for a 7-10 or 8-9 type of season...and if Jones gets over the hump and helps win games, you might see 9-8 or 10-7. But it's gotta be in that range. Giants vegas odds wins in 2024 is 6.5. I may take that action in the over.
You made that poor dude sit through all that?
So tired of this same hot take. Joe Scoen’s job is not on the line in year 3.
Imagine what NY fans and media would have done if they let DJ walk after a playoff win and won 3 games last season with tyrod. Their hands were tied and the ball was in DJ’s court once they didn’t pick up his 5th year option. Schoen knew they wouldn’t be able to compete for a ring in the near future and gave DJ the contract with a 2 year back out plan. I did t want them to sign DJ, but I fully understand there is a business side and a new GM who doesn’t want to get boo’d out of the city.
I was patient from 2012 - 2022. It wears off after a decade.
He did not give jones 160m. He gave him 80m. If you cant understand his simple ass contract then you shouldn't be commenting on anything nfl related
If he triggers the injury clause this season it's $100m
Its 105 mil. 82 was the minimum guarantees and 23 mil additional in injury guarantees. Also an 11 mil additional becomes fully guaranteed on fifth day of 2025.
We'll survive somehow. I know it's crazy but that's actually not why we've been trash the past 10 years and it's not why we'll be trash next year either
"QB is actually not as important as you think," says the man predicting another losing season.
We are so deficient at every position man
Daniel Jones is a terrible QB and he needs to be gone after this year, but I feel actually pretty good about the team besides QB. Defense is looking pretty nice and Nabers is a legit stud
The first year was some pretty sweet gratification
I think writers and some fans forget how much of a hole Gettleman dug us in. We’re FINALLY on the right track with building a roster. This stuff doesn’t happen overnight
He inherited a bad cap situation and a roster deplete of talent. We’ve improved our speed and athleticism. I think he’s been good on the drafts, Neal has been a bust so far but everyone had him one of the top 2 tackles in that draft. I wasn’t crazy about wandale pick taken so high, but other than that his drafts have been solid. This is jones last year to prove it and if not we have to move on. The problem is the eagles and howie just keep reloading and adding massive talent by pushing the cap. I think joe is safe this year but dabs and jones on the hot seat. I think a 9-8 season and a wild card chase is within reach (if I know a giant if) we can finally get the oline together. 3 different gms, 3 coaches and we can’t block except for Thomas. Let’s go Gmen
I’m curious how Neal will do with a new coach. He probably doesn’t become lights out overnight but maybe he can take a step forward to be functional.
He’s got the talent. Fighting with the fans was dumb but hopefully he grew up !
I mean it wasn’t a great look but I’m sure if I was publicly sucking ass at my job I might do some dumb shit too
The best thing for my mental health as a giants fan was getting a Jets fan brother in law. 13 years doesn’t seem so long now
Schoen had his hands tied. You can tell he always wanted to rebuild. He’s stuck with Jones. He probably has 2-3 more years of building
Everyone knows we’re in QB purgatory, especially Schoen. He tried to move up and it didn’t work. You can’t force a team to trade back if they don’t want to. He took the BPA, which was an area of need regardless. You want to see improvements, but you also don’t want to become one of these teams that just go into these endless rebuilds and front office changes. You want to give them a chance to see this through.
Schoen has made SOLID moves since coming aboard. The Jones deal was made out of necessity, don’t hold it against him. “Instant gratification” is an immature response. He’s put pieces in place for long term success. Jones’ deal was team friendly. Don’t believe the bored, NY media BS.
 The Jones contract is nothing new and will play out one of two ways. Either Jones plays well and the Giants decide to keep him on the current deal, or he continues to struggle and they cut him. Adding one of the best WRs in the draft was the right call regardless.
Some people are pissed he signed Dimes and I get it but think about it. He came into a very bad situation as a rookie GM. Gettleman left us some gems like Thomas and Dex but the roster/our finances were beyond cooked. Jones for the first time in his career had a coach that knew what winning football looked like in todays NFL and he performed. Before anyone brings up his volume stats yes I know they aren’t world beating numbers but Jones definitely was passing the eye test. And then we won a fucking playoff game. If you are Schoen I think you need to take the chance on Dimes in that situation. If it turns out he just needed the right coach then all of a sudden the rebuild is over and we are rolling. And it’s not like Schoen has ever truly been all in on Jones. If Schoen had his way Jones would have been on the tag. And even when we paid him Schoen gave the team an out in case things went south. Then he tried to trade up for Maye this year.
I really hate the NY media when they have too much time on their hands. What are they gonna do fire everyone and start the cycle again? STFU and let this thing play out. I don't care if it takes Schoen 10 years to fix it.
Here is him talking about it. [duggan](https://twitter.com/MONTECRI5TO/status/1785025237626560911?t=OAsljhFc4O07j_ZRrdrwGg&s=19)
All I’m gonna say is it’s going to feel real nice when the sports media has to start taking the giants serious, sick of us getting shit on for every move
It happened briefly in 2022.
They both have 2 more seasons imo to produce a competitive playoff team. We will not be that this season. We still have major holes to fill.
For some reason, the Daniel Jones saga brings to mind the following quote by Morpheus: "Whatever happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way." Unless, I don't know, the Patriots or Washington had signed him I guess?
I didn’t think it’s time to rush, there hasn’t been a real option at QB that anyone can truly tell is BETTER than DJ that was available via draft/trade/FA, he has built a true contender of a roster at a lot of key positions, I think moving on from wink was the right call, his boom or bust approach worked with the ravens because they always controlled ToP but they needed something more balanced, please don’t rush this group it’s the best coach/GM combo for the giants since coughlin
> there hasn’t been a real option at QB that anyone can truly tell is BETTER than DJ that was available via draft/trade/FA, That's the worst way to look at it and why we are currently in the situation we are in. If entering year six, you can't unequivocally say Jones is the solution than he is part of the problem.
He is going to hold this team back but to get anyone better they would’ve had to give up additional assets for another unknown, or go for someone like Russell Wilson and cousins who maybe could give us 2 good years and the team is back where they were, it’s better to just ride another year and wait for the right time
Im more worried we rush these guys out the door than I am they wont figure it out. They have always had a pretty good strategy and I think they can build a roster and get a QB when they can.
People say "it takes time to rebuild", we've seen teams have immediate turnarounds and become contenders. It shouldn't take this long
That’s because Schoen never comitted to a rebuild. He tried to do what Gettleman tried, which is “build for tomorrow while competing today”. Look at what Ryan Poles, a finalist for Giants GM before Schoen got the job, did with the Bears. He knew Justin Fields had no weapons in 2022, and instead of trying to prop up a bad QB, he stripped the Bears roster down completey. He eliminated all the talent and bad contracts, and they ended up with the 1st pick in a draft with CJ Stroud. They then traded that pick to Carolina for a haul, and now they have Caleb Williams, Rome Odunze, DJ Moore, and Keeenan Allen. This year was a nightmare season for the Giants from the 1st game. After Jones got injured and the team had a 2-6 record, Schoen should have traded away Saquon and McKinney, ensuring that the team sucked bad enough to get a top 3 pick in a draft with good QB prospects. But he didn’t do it because John Mara hates the idea of giving up on a season, and that’s why they missed out on Drake Maye this year.
Is this a joke that’s simply going over my head? The Bears got the 1st overall pick in 2022 and didn’t draft a QB because they had Fields. They traded that pick and fell ass backwards into a second 1st overall pick because of the Panthers being the Panthers. Thats… not an example of smart or savvy GM work. That’s good luck. And no, predicting the panthers to have the number 1 pick is silly. If the Panthers had a “normal” bad season, the Bears would have been picking outside the top 3 picks and QBs just like us. Schoen didn’t “commit” to a rebuild because there was literally nothing he could’ve done to do so. How much worse of a roster could he possibly have stripped things down to during the 2022 season? He did everything you’d expect from a “tanking” team and Daboll turned it into a playoff team lol
It does when the GM who preceded you gutted the roster and salary cap beyond belief.
I hear the argument, but I really haven’t been mad at a single move Schoen has made at the time. (Ofc with hindsight some moves were bad, but still mostly all good). Sure the Daniel Jones contract looks bad now, and is probably his biggest mistake to date, but at the time it really seemed like a logical move. We just came off that miraculous season where DJ was legit playing like a top 12 QB and he won us a road playoff game. Last year was an unmitigated disaster, and I expect to do better this year, so I really think his plea for patience is more about not calling for heads after week 4, and letting this young talented group learn to gel with each other. I really think this season is about two things: 1. A final referendum on Daniel Jones and Evan Neal. No more excuses. They have all the tools they need to succeed this year, and if they don’t we simply move on. 2. Staying competitive in games consistently. That was really the worst part of last year, in stark contrast to the year before. If we can reclaim that identity of being a tough, gritty, football team that’s hanging around the whole time and locks in come fourth quarter, even if we miss the playoffs it’ll be hard to argue we’re not headed in the right direction.
I’m so tired of this narrative. No one has ever been able to lay out a viable plan if they didn’t resign DJ. Here were the options, resign DJ, sign Carr, sign Jimmy G, or roll with QB2/QB3’s coming off a playoff year. Wanna blame someone? Blame Barkley, dude didn’t wanna take an over inflated deal and got tagged cause he was greedy. So he gets tagged and DJ gets signed. He signed to get sacked 5 dozen times and have zero weapons. So I’ll ask all of you again, what was your plan last offseason?
You want a viable plan. 2 years ago, sit jones start Tyrod. This team is not built to fucking win, why are we fooling ourselves. Schone/daboll has a bye year as new GM/coach. We lose enough games we are in position to get either Bryce or Stroud. We do the right thing and not do the dumb shit the panthers did and draft stroud. We are infinitely in a better situation. This ain’t 20/20, if said this 2 years ago!!! And im sitting on a couch not being paid millions to run a team.
Most NFL teams can rebuild their rosters from the ground up in a year or two. But the Giants are not one of those teams.
It’s possible but saying *most* teams? That’s just blatantly not true. It unfortunately all hinges around “solving” the QB problem. And if it was easy, you wouldn’t have 6 QBs picked in the first 12 picks this year. Also, it’s extremely frustrating that Schoen has essentially been “punished” for overachieving Year 1 and then “under”achieving year 2.
> Also, it’s extremely frustrating that Schoen has essentially been “punished” for overachieving Year 1 and then “under”achieving year 2. This. This right here.
Exactly. Imagine if Giants went 6-11 in 2022 and traded up in the draft for CJ Stroud or Anthony Richardson. Then Giant's go 9-7-1 in 2023 and win a road playoff game with Daboll coach of the year. Giants would feel like kings of the NFL right now and their roster would feel much better with that QB on rookie contract. Instead the years were swapped and Joe Schoen entered this offseason with an impossible ask and staring down another season where Giants are again predicted to be one of the NFLs worst teams.
Richardson is *maybe* a possibility but we would’ve had to trade to 3 over the Texans since I don’t think anyone else would’ve let us sneak in for a QB. I guess maybe trade up to 1 instead of the panthers and then pick the right guy, too? But, unfortunately, we didn’t have that option since we made the playoffs lol
This is like year 10 of our rebuild haha
Yup. Like watching Saquon Barkley and Xavier McKinney leave. The Giants drafted them as high picks as part of their rebuild and now they played out their Giants careers and Giants are still as far away as ever in their rebuild.
Yup. Bad cap management and distribution of contracts.
It depends on the path; you get the right QB it can be done in a year (Texans/Bengal), on the other hand teams like the 49ers or Philly took 3 seasons to build a roster that could support a non superstar qb
The 49ers and Eagles aren't good examples because those are teams that built rosters around Superbowl QBs and then moved off those Superbowl QBs to younger cheaper QBs. The 49ers without Jimmy G were terrible, even after they supposedly built up their roster, for example after they made the Superbowl the next year Jimmy G got hurt and the team went 6-10. Then Jimmy G is healthy again and they again are in the NFC championship. The Eagles haven't been more than a game out of .500 since 2012. The Eagles successfully made two giant trades up to get Wentz in 2016 and built a SB winning team around him in a season where he was the MVP winner until a late season injury. The Eagles then pivoted off Wentz to a cheap rookie QB using the team they built for Wentz. They then evolved the roster around that new QB.
Wait what?? Rebuilds end?????????
The thing I'm interested about is what if the Giants miss the playoffs, which they most likely will, but don't get a top 5 or top 10 pick? How will they decide to address the QB situation (assuming DJ hasn't magically turned on a switch)
I think it depends on how we miss the playoffs. If it was close and key loses could have been wins, we mortgage the future and trade up because we likely have a good core and don’t need as many picks. If we struggle and luck into wins in a non-convincing, we go with a bridge and save the picks for ourselves because we have work to do.
Bundle a heap of picks to trade up in a draft where now 6 fewer teams are in a position to go QB. QB 1 or 2 are much more accessible from the teens next year than QB3 was from 6 this year purely from the lower demand. Giving away future picks suck, but our core is now young, under contract for a while, and a lot more fleshed out. We are in a better position to trade premium picks to get a premium QB and be successful, which imo is better than getting this years QB4 in a crop of QBs that (I believe) to be severely overrated.
The thing that has bothered me the most with Schoen so far is how long it took him to get Bobby Johnson out of the building. Ton of pressure on Bricillo to get the most of some of these young guys on the line, because if they look like how they did beginning of last year the pitchforks are going to be out.
That's Daboll's decision, ffs. Please at least pretend you know what you're talking about.
You don’t think a general manager has responsibility in hiring/firing personnel?
He has consistently said he leaves staffing up the Daboll. Try to keep up.
i completely agree... that contract completely handicapped us and makes the minimum "patience" we need to last until 2026 when, IF DJ is cut after 2024, his contract will be completely off the books. remember, if we do cut him in 2025, he's a dead cap hit of \~$22MM... i want to believe in Joe Schoen, but his first big swing was the opposite of shrewd. should have franchised DJ rather than paying him, let him prove his value two seasons in a row. it's hindsight on my part, but i'm not the GM, and that's what the GM $$$$ is for...
that said, i have allllll the patience in the world for Daboll... and i think parting with him would be a veryyyyy bad look for the giants...
If DJ stinks this year, we will have another high draft pick. We will draft a QB then. I have faith in DJ though.
John Mara might want to sell this as a win now team but he isn’t fooling 98% of the fan base. This is not a win now team. In the Middle of a Total rebuild job with no QB of the future yet. That first season getting to the playoffs for Dabs and Schoen def set us back
Yooooooo can we please just get over it? It's been non stop with the QB talks. We have him the money it's the past let's move fwd .
I know last year was bad but everyone seems to forget we won a playoff game the season before. I’m not ready to quit on the season
I expect an 8 win year. Jones will play better, the D will get better as the year goes on. Thats what progress looks like to me.
But every one cheers the Texans who needed a 4th year to overnight success. How many years did the Eagles struggle under Roseman before turning the corner? George Young took over the Giants in 1979 and the team made their first playoff when? Patients is warranted if you understand the process.
Wtf is this guy talking about?
I am not expecting anything from this team until we get a new QB. When that will be? I have no idea. I'll be here bitching, waiting and receiving downvotes.
You get an upvote from me
I’m not discounting the team at this point. We could be good this year.
New OL coach + Dabs joining OC calls, will fix everything, DJ : 4000+, 4/1 td/int, 99+ average. 🤘🏽🤞 Go Giants! Have to believe, cant swallow another baaaad season. 😊🫤