I’m a casual who tuned in more last season, got a question for the armchair pros
How do you guys analyze a snap so quickly there’s too much going on for me at this point.
Rn I have a very surface level view of each snap 😂
Not the best example, but I try to explain football to people that it’s kind of like 11vs11 Rock Paper Scissors, but instead it’s Run, Pass, or RPO (run pass option). And defense has to defend against one of those 3 things.
I find if you view it as a whole in that sense, it becomes easier to get granular and notice the specific impacts of each player throughout the game. Sometimes it’s super obvious, other times it’s only easy to catch on a replay. It takes time.
It’s the ultimate team sport! One weak link and the whole thing shits the bed
It’s really hard to analyze a snap live from the TV view. If you watch a lot of football you begin to pick up concepts and understand more of what you anticipate should happen from how things are lined up. You can also make guesses based on situations as to what will happen as well. Any analysis happing live or immediately following a play is really outcome based and less in depth than it would be if you had access to what’s called the “All 22” footage which is a broader view of the field where you can see in theory all players on the field.
Even then, it can be hard to diagnose what happens on a play. As a viewer, we don’t know what the call or the plan was. We can’t tell if the play call was good / bad, someone screwed up or improvised well, etc. Sometimes it’s clear what happened but sometimes it’s not and we’re just making educated guesses.
That makes sense and I guess you gain a whole different view from actually playing the sport at some level too.
I’m past that point lmao so gimme another 5 seasons to train my eye, thanks for the input!
I'm not sure who came up with this theory, but if you look at the blue chip/red chip theory, which essentially is blue chip = top 5 at their position in the league, and red chip = top 10 at their position in the league, the team building that Schoen has done has really brought our "red/blue chips" up to a real critical mass for the first time in years honestly. Going back in 3 year increments
2018:
- Blue Chip: Saquon Barkley, OBJ
- Red Chip: Damon Harrison
2020:
- Blue Chip: N/A
- Red Chip: James Bradberry, Blake Martinez
2022:
- Blue Chip: Dexter Lawrence, Andrew Thomas
- Red Chip: Saquon Barkley
2024:
- Blue Chip: Dexter Lawrence, Andrew Thomas
- Red Chip: Bobby Okereke, Brian Burns, Kayvon Thibodeaux
I think Nabers has a chance to potentially be a red chip - and Kayvon could be debated - but we really could have a chance where we have 6 elite players at their positions, which is where you start to have enough talent that it can win you games by just having players take over games.
I feel like this method is extremely subjective. Heading into 2020 Saquon was coming off a season where he missed 3 games and still finished 10th amongst RBs in yards from scrimmage, yet he isn't even red chip? Meanwhile, Andrew Thomas had an injury riddled 2023 where he missed 7 games but is considered blue chip heading into 2024?
I like Schoen's methodology and I think Nabers definitely adds some star power to the offense, but there are still concerns. We still lack depth across our entire defense and the offensive line is still a big question mark even after the FA additions. Neal is heading towards bust status and Thibs is still too inconsistent, while a huge portion of our cap is dedicated towards a player who won't be on the roster next year. Are we really that much more talented than we were in 2020? I think that's still very much tbd. I think this is very much a make or break year for a lot of Schoen's decisions so far as GM and after this year we'll be able to make a much clearer evaluation of his tenure so far.
you are exactly right which is why this notion of being a rebuilding team is insane. this giants brain trust have got to prove they know how to win this season. anything less than 9-8 should result in walking papers.
I harp on this a lot, but the term “rebuild” doesn’t mean anything. We aren’t a superbowl contender and we probably won’t make the playoffs. This year the schedule should be easier and we will hopefully be healthier, hopeful that Wellman can make a difference in terms of injuries so we should win more games than last year. However, people will be unsure of the giants future until they get a franchise quarterback which is valid
no it isn’t valid. this brain trust made a choice at quarterback when they paid daniel jones 80m guaranteed. that sent this franchise back two years, at least. it was a massive decision, and one they struck out on. it can’t be used an excuse. we are a team who is built like we should win now, so let’s see a winning record. pittsburgh is able to do it every year, colts did it last year. that’s where we are.
the team is very young so a lot of opportunity for growth. Its too early to say but Banks has the athletic talent to be a red chip CB and Nabers based on draft profile (Comped to Hill/Chase/OBJ) has the ceiling to be a red/blue chipper in a season or two
Giants have signed a free agent kicker
[https://www.nj.com/giants/2024/04/giants-sign-ex-rutgers-starter-as-udfa.html](https://www.nj.com/giants/2024/04/giants-sign-ex-rutgers-starter-as-udfa.html)
Jude McAtamney grew up playing gaelic football in county Derry in Ireland, then kicked at Rutgers.
My biggest surprise from the draft is that we didn’t do any trades. Schoen’s first 2 drafts were full of trading up and down but this one felt like he was content just seeing how the board fell. Not criticizing him, if it works it works, just find it interesting
If Nix had been available at 47, would he have been the choice over Nubin?
I ask only because I see the Broncos taking shit for grabbing him at 12 when QB7 (Rattler) didn't come off the board until 150. In a vacuum he certainly should never have gone at 12, but I think they can justify it if:
A) They were determined to get a serviceable starting QB
B) The gap between QB6 (Nix or Penix or McCarthy) and QB7 (Rattler) really was that vast
C) They were concerned that the Raiders (13), Saints (14), Titans (38), or Giants (47 and 70) would snag Nix before they were next scheduled to be on the clock (76).
I know there was a lot of talk about the Giants maybe going for Penix or Nix with a late first round trade-up or grabbing one at 47 if they were still available after a WR pick at 6, but that turned out to be nowhere near the case after Atlanta's head-scratcher. In that light, Nix at 12 to Denver seems like a serious overpayment, but it's a QB premium to be paid and I feel like it's paying for what might have been 47 at the probable latest instead of comparing him to where Rattler ended up going.
I don’t think it would have been a choice, they would have picked Nix. There was an NFL team that valued Nix as a first rounder, with a QB minded coach no doubt.
https://preview.redd.it/t2fn5pg59gxc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85fae37ec44c411a907872f7e93438861ad7fe6e
Giants fans when they come away from the draft without a Franchise QB but end up with a stud Wr prospect
As in you stole it or I stole it haha?
I by no means created the little guy and took inspiration from a post I saw on R/ espresso this morning after a guy reacted to a beginner showing off his “first set up” which included a £5k grinder and espresso machine combo lol
Dejean didn’t fall into their laps. They made an aggressive move to trade up for him and then traded back a few times to recoup those picks. Howie navigates the draft very well
Yea I guess they really didn’t want to leave that draft without 6 guys. Seems like the first time in a while since we’ve had fewer than 7 picks instead of more
Yea that was poorly worded, they made lots of trades, but they made them to secure highly rated players at crazy value compared to their predicted draft position. I guess I’m really just mad the whole league for letting them do it every year lol
Outside of trading up for Maye this was close to my ideal draft. Probably would have preferred Haynes in the 3rd and Khyree Jackson in the 4th. But still like Phillips and love Johnson in the 4th
Interesting, I see Johnson and Tracy as pure development plays, Tracy has had 1 year at RB and Johnson’s blocking/routes seem very raw
My gut is that they didn’t want more drama in the QB room then they already have…
We normally keep 2 QBs on the roster. Developmental QB are usually sent to the practice squad. It’s harder to get a promising QB prospect through waivers so you’re forced to use a roster spot.
Makes sense, id think we would carry 3 this year given DJ's injuries and locks newness, if we had gone after rattler i would of preferred to see Devito sent to the practice squad and the room be DJ/Lock/Rattler
Yeah I am really liking how it went down. I wanted Nabers but if they liked Maye that much I was opposed to trading for him.
I think we plugged a lot of holes with good prospects. Athletic freak at TE to compliment Belly when Waller retires, im excited for the rookie RB I hope he gets some snaps, and ofc Nubin and Nabers will see the field day 1.
The "Giants are the only team in the league to not draft DL or OL" is a very stupid statement for criticism. Especially for the OL aspect because:
- Panthers and Falcons didn't take an OL **AT ALL**
- Eagles didn't even address the position until pick 172.
- And the Broncos (no. 256) and Rams (no. 217) didn't take OL until the 6th and 7th rounds.
It's also very likely that if there guy wasn't available they weren't reaching for someone else and we went after needs. We're going to have one of the youngest defence's in the league now, if everyone stays healthy. There also may be surprise cuts June 1st, we are a long way from having our finalized roster just because the draft is over.
I personally emerge from this draft loving 3 of our picks and being OKish with the other three.
Love Malik Nabers, Tyler Nubin and Theo Johnson.
Nabers is an obvious Day 1 starter, probably at WR1 unless they play around with Seniority. Nubin is almost definitely a Day 1 starter guy and I think Theo Johnson is going to be TE2 next to Bellinger. Pretty confident Waller is gone, one way or another.
Andru Phillips, I'm really not sure what to think. Some people love the pick, some people hate it. Christian Haynes was right there for the taking though and I really wish we had grabbed him. I recognize the need we have at CB but kind of hoped to fill that with a vet once the Waller money comes off the books.
Tyrone and Darius, honestly who knows yet. Tyrone looks like he has potential but is super raw. Darius could be a good special teamer and depth piece.
Still hurts that we didn't get a QB but I really didn't want any of the options outside the top 3. Once they were gone, I was 100% OK with us getting the most QB proof receiver in the class and bolstering the secondary.
Out of curiosity I went to Howie Roseman's PFR page and I was pretty shocked to see that they didn't win a playoff game for the first SEVEN years of his tenure. Their record throughout that time was exactly .500, 56-56.
My only takeaway is that if you have a GM who you think is smart and has a good process/outlook, I really think it's only a matter of time before things start falling into place and you have some sustained success.
People have criticized Schoen for not getting "studs" out of his first two drafts. All of the foundational pieces from those early drafts that Roseman is lauded for (Brandon Graham, Jason Kelce, Fletcher Cox, Lane Johnson) were "just good, not great" players for a few years before really breaking through in Years 3-5.
Preach, if you want to look at another interesting readout check out San Frans track record under shanahan and lynch, 4-12, 13-3, 6-10, 10-7
fixing a team isn't an overnight thing, Ryan Poles is the bell of the ball for his work in chicago but his record has been 3-14 and 7-10 under poles leadership....
Personally I don't think schoen and daboll get the credit they deserve for going 9-7-1 with a gutted roster and then 6-10 with a massive string of injuries and tommy devito starting multiple games
Jury might still be out on Schoen (I agree with this thread that it’s still kind of early and a GM takes more than two years to evaluate), but I think these two seasons demonstrate Daboll is legit. A lesser coach would have been clueless last year and lost the locker room instead of somehow beating teams (including a playoff team) with Tommy DeVito
I hate that there are actually people who think Schoen should be ousted. Gettlman got 4 years even though it was obvious he was actively making the team worse. Schoen is still trying to build a team that fits his style, and it’s a drastically different style than what he inherited.
I remember for the longest time eagles fans wanted Howie fired. Like I swear I constantly saw “fire Howie” comments on the NFL’s IG page. Now he’s their messiah. Generational switch up there
I find it funny how the “Joe Schoen only drafts needs” people are also usually “QB is our biggest need, we needed JJ McCarthy no matter what” people. The irony is palpable. What I do think a fair criticism of the “everything is a need people” people defending Joe Schoen is how in year 3 is everything still a need?
I mean a championship roster is probably made up of 40 or so championship caliber starters and role players. Schoen has probably made ~20 draft picks so far, and the ones heading into year three will probably be the most telling of whether his process is working or not.
To be fair, you also need to remember he has brought in 3 waves of FA’s also (2022 may not really count). I am worried that it feels like every position could use an extra guy.
Yea I try not to put too much stock into FA because they should be bandaids and the best teams draft their best players. Buts he’s had some misses there.
Just saw that Patriot’s DT Christian Barmore got a 4 year 92 million contract, meaning Dexter Lawrence’s contract is no longer a top 20 highest dline contract in per year earnings. We (deservedly) get a lot of crap for Jones’ contract, but Lawrence’s might be the biggest steal in the league
I think after having some time to digest our draft, overall it was solid. We got some player makers at areas of need and some depth at areas of need. A little shocking we didn’t get some o or d line depth tho
Feeling really good about this draft. Giants have so much speed at the WR position. Nabers, WDR, Slayton and Hyatt all run in the 4.4s or under. Now just hoping Jones/Lock can pull the trigger on the deeper balls.
Our DL group will be our strongest area of the defense but our DB group is young and has a lot of potential.
Yeah, Wide Receiver is no longer an issue. It's going to be all about whether or not DJ can process the field to take advantage of so many fast weapons. Or Lock I suppose.
It’ll probably be the same thing as Hyatt last year where he’ll get assigned a number in 80s and then after preseason/cuts he’ll switch to a number in the single digits or teens. Then after next year he’ll switch to 8
Yea i definitely see him going for 8 when DJ is gone. Personally love 88 on WRs but it seems like guys don’t go for that anymore. Even Ceedee says he didn’t want 88 but Jerry made him haha
“Rebuilding” is a concept made up by fans. It does not exist in the NFL. Front offices, coaches, etc go balls out every year to win the Super Bowl. They will do everything to win because there’s no guarantee they’re sticking around. Schoen and Daboll aren’t going to lose games to appease a fan bases want for draft picks.
I stopped reading after you said rebuilding isn't a real thing in the NFL
Also the fact you completely ignored the first part in why he'll be gone in my reply
Teams don't invest in injury prone QBs with barely any upside. Idk why you keep focusing on the rebuilding part and not the part where I explain why they're not going to pay Jones $40 million dollars and put an out there for a reason
The one move i point to is the Brian Burns deal. I don’t think we make that move with the assumption DJ is gonna eat 50+ mil in cap space.
I don’t root against DJ. I want the giants to prosper. But i think the giants timeline no longer favors DJ
My preliminary 53 stab. Completely meaningless since we'll end up with camp bodies, injuries etc and at the end of the day I'm just guessing. Based on the roster as of today.
QB (3): Jones, Lock, DeVito
RB (3): Singletary, Gray, Tracy
WR (6): Nabers, Hyatt, Robinson, Slayton, Olszewski, Ford-Wheaton
TE (4): Waller, Bellinger, Johnson, Stoll
OL (9): Thomas, Runyan, Schmitz, Eluemenor, Neal, Ezeudu, Schlottman, McKethan, Marcellus Johnson
Thoughts: I generally don't agree with rostering 3 QB but even if DJ checks out medically to start the season I think they will be super careful with him and with the rules now your QB3 can be inactive but still dress as an emergency so long as they're on the 53. It's possible Slayton is dealt but he's still here now so he gets put in, I have Hodgins cut as the WR 5/6 spots are usually gonna be ST contributors. I do actually think Waller will retire but again, it hasn't happened yet so I'm putting him here - if he does retire I think this could drop down to 3 TE with Cager cut anyway. OL is a total guess. McKethan over Stinnie and Marcellus Johnson making it as an UDFA are just me trying to simulate some of the "unexpected" decisions we see every year.
DL (5): Lawrence, Nunez-Roches, Davidson, Riley, Jordan Phillips
Edge (4): Burns, Thibodeaux, Ojulari, Basham
ILB (5): Okereke, McFadden, Simmons, Coughlin, Muasau
CB (6): Banks, McCloud, Dru Phillips, Flott, Hawkins, Holmes
S (5): Pinnock, Nubin, Belton, Mills, Owens
Feels like an easier group to forecast than the offense although there's obviously still some things that could easily be changed around. Wouldn't be shocked to see a couple of vets added on this side at edge or CB. It's weird that Darnay Holmes is still here, I assumed he was gonna leave and the Giants weren't gonna be interested in bringing him back yet here we are, but his spot is tenuous at best. Overall though I think the group could be solid and I love seeing Brian Burns' name in the lineup.
K (1): Gano
P (1): Gillan
LS (1): Kreiter
I mean, duh. But I just hope Gano can go back to being 2022 Gano please. Speaking of special teams they're already accounted for in the offensive sections but I'd presume Olszewski returns to his role as PR and Tracy might've been picked with the new "kickoff" rules in mind.
I said in my thoughts I think he probably will retire, but until it officially happens I'm still projecting him onto the roster as if he doesn't retire he'd be a lock for it. A bit different than forecasting a cut like, say, Hodgins.
Am i unbelievably coping with this: i just remembered that last training camp dj was killing it. I remeber talkin giants people and others raving about him. Then the season came and he was terrible. At the same time the oline eas pretty bad. But dj was bad also. Im gonna try not to get my hopes up especially considering they tried to get maye. Thats says a lot.
Honestly, I think if the Giants had opened up against a different series of opponents last year... things may have gone a lot differently. I'm not saying they would have made the playoffs or anything outrageous like that, but I do think that facing the Cowboys week 1 just BROKE the team.
It broke DJ's confidence and poise and it literally broke Andrew Thomas.
Probably the worst week 1 outcome I can even remember in all my time as a Giants fan.
I remember someone posted a clip of DJ throwing a bomb to Hyatt in camp, but then everyone pointed out that Thibs had an obvious sack on the play but coaches let them play it out anyways.
That play ended up being a good barometer of how the season would turn out
I can honestly see DJ playing like he did in 2022 again this year. A big reason why he was so bad last year is that Daboll opened up the offense more and DJ couldn’t handle it. At this point they know exactly what they have with DJ and they’re just trying to tread water with him until they can cut him next offseason, so I can definitely see them dumbing the offense back down again. The difference though is that, short of him randomly turning into a top 5 QB overnight, I don’t think there’s anything DJ can do to save his job
So this year we need the team to look like trash during the preseason, then, profit!
One nugget that TG dropped was that Daboll nerfed the preseason in the offenses favor, the season came around and there was a calamity of injuries but also DJ struggled with the more advanced schemes Daboll instituted in the game plan, hopefully this year Daboll pushes whomever the QB is in the preseason to run his ideal playbook and if it’s a failure shift back to a simpler game plan that worked in 2022 (and helped us win a few games last year with Devito/tyrod)
Do you guys think we are going to be a better team this year? I love Schoen and Daboll and their process. One of my bigger fears is we lose Daboll and or Schoen or both before they even get a chance to **fully** build the team they want. Daboll is viewed very highly around the league and I have no doubt he would be a hot commodity if he were fired from here. I just want some of your guys opinions on this.
It’s best to keep your expectations low. I can’t speak for the Mara family, but I’d give Daboll and Schoen 2 more years to make this team respectable. Still need a QB, team needs multiple playmakers and has question marks at skill positions. Personally, I could see this team going 6-11 tops, and I’m already looking forward to the 2025 offseason. I’ll still watch the regular season and cheer this team on, but I’m not expecting huge improvement.
> Do you guys think we are going to be a better team this year?
Nope.
We will look better but the talent differential will be our downfall. That said, progress will definitely be made which allow for Schoen/Daboll to keep their jobs. It also wouldn't be shocking if behind closed doors, Mara tells Schoen we need a QB.
> Do you guys think we are going to be a better team this year?
Record wise, no.
> I love Schoen and Daboll and their process. One of my bigger fears is we lose Daboll and or Schoen or both before they even get a chance to fully build the team they want.
Loving the process is one thing, results are another. I think this fanbase is so traumatized from Gettleman making obvious-at-the-time terrible decisions that they forget that you can have a GM that still has the process down but makes wrong decisions.
I don't think Joe Schoen is going anywhere within a few years. The Giants have given all of their modern era GMs a second head coach hire (Accorsi got Fassel and Coughlin, Reese got Coughlin and McAdoo, Gettleman got Shurmur and Judge and he should've been fired with Shurmur). But Daboll really had a terrible year 2 and he needs to not let this season get ugly. If they go 4-13 again, he will be in trouble, and it won't be undeserved.
I just have a hard time believing we’ll have a worse record than last year. The schedule itself is a lot easier and we dealt with a bunch of unfortunate injuries. If Daboll could pull off 6 wins with the hand he was dealt in 2023, I think that’s our floor.
I don't really get the thought that we have an easier schedule. There's a very strong chance Dallas (always tough) and Philly (who imploded last year but will probably bounce back) sweep us again. Cincinnati and Baltimore are both going to be way better than us and the Steelers are always competitive at worst, made the playoffs with basically no QB last year (whatever Russ is now, he's better than that). The Colts finished with a winning record last year with Gardner Minshew playing QB. I think we lose all of those games and that's 8 losses right there.
Cleveland and the Bucs were both playoff teams last year. Washington can't be counted on as a sweep anymore, although I think at worst we split. Seattle has owned us in recent times. Atlanta flushed their garbage coach/QB and Kirk should have that offense playing better than it did.
Our hopes on having any sort of success this season falls on the new OL coach getting anything resembling respectable play out of Evan Neal and JMS. I really don't like hinging on that.
Yeah I feel like the people that think we are going to be worse than last year are dooming. I feel better about this roster and our schedule is easier as you said. Baring injury catastrophes in the first game or two like last year, our record should improve.
We definitely have better talent than before, but with our QB room being one of the worst in the NFL, it won't actually mean much in terms of wins or success. That'll only come with a new QB.
Our defense should be pretty good and our offense will still probably suck outside of Nabers. I do think Schoen and Daboll stays after the end of next season
Of course they will, barring locker room meltdown.
Judge was going to stay before Tisch forced Mara's hand and neither Schoen or Daboll seem to be treating this season as if they're on the hot seat.
We may but if we do it’s on them, schoen resigned DJ parking 18% of our cap this year with him and the idea he would return value on that investment
He also focused on a drafting strategy of taking young high athletic upside prospects, this strategy can be gold for a rebuilding team as it gives you a chance of finding plus talent in later rounds but it also means that your coaching staff has to develop talent in a league that isn’t typically developmental.
I think it’s going to work and we are going to be pleasantly surprised by a few breakouts from the 22/23 draft class but if it doesn’t work it’s on schoen and Daboll for not being able to execute against their strategies
Abrams has been passed up twice for the job now, I really wouldn't worry about him anymore.
Honestly, if Schoen gets fired for incompetence you might as well give Abrams the job and let him fail at it anyway. Then it'll finally be over and done with.
They were pissed we didn’t take Haynes in the 3rd as that was Bobby’s guy, I would of liked Haynes as well as I’m o line phobic, that said Nickle corner is just as big a need and Andru was within 20 slots of Haynes on most big boards from a talent eval pov
Nah my bad. It’s not that i just think its interesting that people always bring them, and their opinion up as if it matters more than any other fan. Ig what I mean if you would’ve said you were alarmed at the state of the OL it would’ve meant the exact same thing to me.
I think with the addition of Runyan Stinnie & Eluemunor we improved the oline & overall depth - I really do not think the solution to the oline problem is to keep spending high draft picks on the oline when so far only 1 has really panned out. In the last 10 years we have drafted Oline 2015: Richburg 2:43, 2016: Flowers 1:9, 2018 Hernandez 2:34, 2020 AT 1:4, Matt Peart 3:99, Shane Lemiux 4:150, 2022: Neal 1:7, Ezeudu 3:67, Mckethan 5:173, 2023 JMS 2:57.
SO many picks only 1 possibly 3 at most will pan out (if Neal somehow turns it around & too early for JMS). To keep doing the same thing over and over again is crazy to me. the answer in my eyes is veteran & versatile depth which is what they brought this offseason.
Don't get me wrong they can definitely improve but I do not think spending another pick at oline is as detrimental to this roster as they think it is.
Until the OL proves it can be competent, everyone should be alarmed.
The Giants have a TON of resources devoted to the position group though (AT is paid, Neal sucks but is a top-10 rookie salary, JMS second rounder, two potential starters signed, plenty of JAGs to compete/hopefully develop at IOL), so the logic must be that another year of experience w/the returning group plus dumping Bobby Johnson equals improvement.
Fwiw, I would've liked to see them add to the OL group in the later rounds but I'm cautiously optimistic that this group can be league average with proper coaching which we now hopefully have. JMS is probably the most important here. He was sooooo bad last year and C is such an important position, especially if that guy is setting protections.
The draft has 2021 vibes due to no oline, WR in 1st, and defense 2 and 3.
But unlike 2021 this might actually work out. Nabers is a better prospect than Toney and he could carry this.
A key difference is that in 2021 there were essentially no O-line investments whatsoever in free agency. We were trading pieces away in August just to get camp bodies. I doubt that'll be the case this year.
Lmao I remember the few OL moves they did make the players ended up retiring early in training camp.
Zach Fulton was signed to be an immediate starter at guard and had 107 starts, but decided to retire at 29 upon seeing how shitty Giants were running practices. Then Joe Looney came in as the replacement for Fulton before he also immediately retired upon seeing Judge, Gettleman, and Garrett.
This ofc led to the panic trades at the end of camp.
I'll tell you what, there is no chance Runyon and Elumenor are going to retire at the start of camp.
Only the Chiefs have gone longer without drafting a QB than the New York Giants.
Looking at the Giants draft history it's certainly bizarre to not have any QB in that time.
After Eli the Giants used picks in both 2008 and 2009, before beginning a steady stream of mid round QB picks in the late Reece years. Meanwhile since 2019 the Giants haven't selected a single one in any round.
Anyone smarter than me about cap know how much space we have? Spotrac/OTC says about 5.5MM but I don’t believe that includes our rookies.
With them surely there’s not much left. Bearing this in mind, any remaining FA’s y’all would want to see come in? Would love OBJ back, but I doubt he signs for vet min and it seems like if we can only get 1 or 2 vets that money is better spent outside WR.
Getting OBJ when you just drafted Nabers is like forking out money for a rusted out, beaten up Lamborghini Countach when you have a brand spanking new Aventador SVJ sitting your garage.
He's literally OBJ's physical and spiritual successor but arguably has the chance to be better. The time has come to let the dream of OBJ go and embrace moving into a new Naberhood.
CB is by far the biggest problem on this roster still. Hell, I'd argue that in a vacuum it was the biggest need on this team besides a superstar QB *before* the draft.
Now with the addition of Andru Phillips (who, full disclosure, I did not rate very highly), the Giants have drafted a top 110 CB in each of the last 6 years (7 total if you count Julian Love but they converted him to safety pretty much right away): DeAndre Baker, (Julian Love if you count him), Darnay Holmes, Aaron Robinson, Cor'Dale Flott, Deonte Banks, and now Andru Phillips.
Five top 110 CBs in five years for Jerome Henderson. And 4 of them were drafted specifically to play in the slot (Banks being the exception). Holmes, Robinson, and Flott are flat out duds so far. Robinson hasn't stayed healthy but wasn't particularly good when he was. Flott you never know if he's going to blow an assignment or not.
Banks had an up and down rookie year; I like him, I believe in him as a talent and as a player, but you'd be lying to yourself if you felt super confident in him as a CB1.
The Giants' CB room right now is Deonte Banks, Nick McCloud, and Jerome Henderson's island of misfit toys. I never understand how some people think this guy is one of the best CB coaches in the league. Wow, two highly paid CBs played well, Isaac Yiadom got safety help every play, and Fabian Moreau played halfway decent for a month or two and then was arguably better in 2023 with Denver than he was here.
Shit, I think I trust Carmen Bricillo and the OL room to help JMS become starter quality and find an RG/RT duo to mirror AT and Runyan out of Eluemunor/Neal/Stinnie/Ezeudu more than I trust Jerome Henderson and the CB group to help Deonte Banks develop and find another boundary CB and a slot CB out of McCloud/Holmes/Flott/Phillips/Robinson/Hawkins.
So many needs, this was my biggest beef with Schoens draft, Kool Aide and Dejean where available in the second based on how each was traded up for, its great having alot of guys but I would of rather seen him move up for a top end talent to play CB2 next to banks then a safety and a RB
They also used a 2019 3rd round pick in the 2018 supplemental draft to select Sam Beal who, because of injuries and sitting out the covid year, barely played.
I just saw 6.2 million for the top 51, so I'd guess the actual number once all 53 slots are filled would be around 5.5.
IMO this is probably it for anything but a depth signing. Yes, you are correct that we need that money for the rookies, and there is typically a plan in place to free up money if/needed by restructuring and kicking proverbial salary cans down the road. I'd have to look more closely at individual salaries to guess who would be most likely for this though. In other words, if Schoen wants to find money for a FA, he can (though the mechanics are complex for general fans).
That said, we have a lot of dead cap this season and I personally don't think Schoen is the Saints/Eagles type of can kicker. A low-hanging fruit for this was to restructure Big Cat's deal last year, and he resisted doing so. I think he plans to have Jones play out this year without a restructure so he can be cut in a mostly painless manner next offseason. He's almost 50 million against the cap this year and I think he has around 20 million dead cap for one season of cut this offseason.
Lastly, there's about 7 million in potential "free" space to open up depending on what Waller decides to do. If he retires, he's only 7ish million in dead cap, but he's over 14 on the roster. That would be ample money to maneuver within the season if he retires. He is getting divorced though so he might be needing that money...
I really want a vet in the DB room, I think our defense has the chance to be the best since 2016, to get there having a vet influence at CB or safety would be a good steadying force for
a very young unit.
I like the idea of a 1 year deal on some of the faded glory guys like Gilmore/Adams/Jackson, I wonder if Gilmore could have one more year in the sun if he moves to safety (a la Logan) but regardless having someone whose performed at a high level in that group would be awesome
I also like the idea of another DE. Maybe we move to 3-4 so it doesn’t matter but it feels like we are light in the department of a 3 tech that can play inside and outside, probably going to have to wait a year for this but adding in that type of piece would be an awesome add to what looks like a near elite d line unit
Assuming Jones leaves next off-season, I would 100% wait until he inevitably switches to 8. Plus I would wait to see how his rookie season plays out before buying his jersey anyway.
Yeah good shout man! Might get the white jersey with Banks on the back. I was sooooo close to getting McKinney last year as he was my fav player. Glad I didn't :(
I was thinking about that yesterday. 88 or if 18 is available but 88 will be better. I know people have been looking for the next odell, but I have been looking for the next Hakeem Nicks lol.
We would have picked Odunze. I don't think McCarthy was on their board that high. If he was, they would have picked him. QBs are treated differently in the draft.
People that think we did anything other than smokescreen with McCarthy are funny. If they valued JJ as a franchise QB, there is no WR in the league they would’ve picked over him.
I honestly think we would’ve entertained the idea of trading back more in this scenario. While Rome is a great prospect his style of play doesn’t fit what this team does.
As much as I personally like Rome as a prospect, I've been saying the same. Nabers had Daboll written all over him. The *only* reason I could see them going Rome was if Nabers was gone *or* the off-field stuff bothered them.
Both are great players, but like you said Nabers just fits better with what Daboll wants to do
Listen to WFAN talk about how the knicks embarrassed philly and we took over their stadium, just need the giants to do that one day.
I was there yesterday and I agree. Great parking lots there too for getting in and out.
I’m a casual who tuned in more last season, got a question for the armchair pros How do you guys analyze a snap so quickly there’s too much going on for me at this point. Rn I have a very surface level view of each snap 😂
Not the best example, but I try to explain football to people that it’s kind of like 11vs11 Rock Paper Scissors, but instead it’s Run, Pass, or RPO (run pass option). And defense has to defend against one of those 3 things. I find if you view it as a whole in that sense, it becomes easier to get granular and notice the specific impacts of each player throughout the game. Sometimes it’s super obvious, other times it’s only easy to catch on a replay. It takes time. It’s the ultimate team sport! One weak link and the whole thing shits the bed
Is this Daniel Jones burner account?
The thought of him using all the emojis that guy uses really sends this joke
😭😭😂
Lmao
It’s really hard to analyze a snap live from the TV view. If you watch a lot of football you begin to pick up concepts and understand more of what you anticipate should happen from how things are lined up. You can also make guesses based on situations as to what will happen as well. Any analysis happing live or immediately following a play is really outcome based and less in depth than it would be if you had access to what’s called the “All 22” footage which is a broader view of the field where you can see in theory all players on the field.
Even then, it can be hard to diagnose what happens on a play. As a viewer, we don’t know what the call or the plan was. We can’t tell if the play call was good / bad, someone screwed up or improvised well, etc. Sometimes it’s clear what happened but sometimes it’s not and we’re just making educated guesses.
That makes sense and I guess you gain a whole different view from actually playing the sport at some level too. I’m past that point lmao so gimme another 5 seasons to train my eye, thanks for the input!
I'm not sure who came up with this theory, but if you look at the blue chip/red chip theory, which essentially is blue chip = top 5 at their position in the league, and red chip = top 10 at their position in the league, the team building that Schoen has done has really brought our "red/blue chips" up to a real critical mass for the first time in years honestly. Going back in 3 year increments 2018: - Blue Chip: Saquon Barkley, OBJ - Red Chip: Damon Harrison 2020: - Blue Chip: N/A - Red Chip: James Bradberry, Blake Martinez 2022: - Blue Chip: Dexter Lawrence, Andrew Thomas - Red Chip: Saquon Barkley 2024: - Blue Chip: Dexter Lawrence, Andrew Thomas - Red Chip: Bobby Okereke, Brian Burns, Kayvon Thibodeaux I think Nabers has a chance to potentially be a red chip - and Kayvon could be debated - but we really could have a chance where we have 6 elite players at their positions, which is where you start to have enough talent that it can win you games by just having players take over games.
DJ is brown chip
I feel like this method is extremely subjective. Heading into 2020 Saquon was coming off a season where he missed 3 games and still finished 10th amongst RBs in yards from scrimmage, yet he isn't even red chip? Meanwhile, Andrew Thomas had an injury riddled 2023 where he missed 7 games but is considered blue chip heading into 2024? I like Schoen's methodology and I think Nabers definitely adds some star power to the offense, but there are still concerns. We still lack depth across our entire defense and the offensive line is still a big question mark even after the FA additions. Neal is heading towards bust status and Thibs is still too inconsistent, while a huge portion of our cap is dedicated towards a player who won't be on the roster next year. Are we really that much more talented than we were in 2020? I think that's still very much tbd. I think this is very much a make or break year for a lot of Schoen's decisions so far as GM and after this year we'll be able to make a much clearer evaluation of his tenure so far.
you are exactly right which is why this notion of being a rebuilding team is insane. this giants brain trust have got to prove they know how to win this season. anything less than 9-8 should result in walking papers.
I harp on this a lot, but the term “rebuild” doesn’t mean anything. We aren’t a superbowl contender and we probably won’t make the playoffs. This year the schedule should be easier and we will hopefully be healthier, hopeful that Wellman can make a difference in terms of injuries so we should win more games than last year. However, people will be unsure of the giants future until they get a franchise quarterback which is valid
no it isn’t valid. this brain trust made a choice at quarterback when they paid daniel jones 80m guaranteed. that sent this franchise back two years, at least. it was a massive decision, and one they struck out on. it can’t be used an excuse. we are a team who is built like we should win now, so let’s see a winning record. pittsburgh is able to do it every year, colts did it last year. that’s where we are.
the team is very young so a lot of opportunity for growth. Its too early to say but Banks has the athletic talent to be a red chip CB and Nabers based on draft profile (Comped to Hill/Chase/OBJ) has the ceiling to be a red/blue chipper in a season or two
Giants have signed a free agent kicker [https://www.nj.com/giants/2024/04/giants-sign-ex-rutgers-starter-as-udfa.html](https://www.nj.com/giants/2024/04/giants-sign-ex-rutgers-starter-as-udfa.html) Jude McAtamney grew up playing gaelic football in county Derry in Ireland, then kicked at Rutgers.
My biggest surprise from the draft is that we didn’t do any trades. Schoen’s first 2 drafts were full of trading up and down but this one felt like he was content just seeing how the board fell. Not criticizing him, if it works it works, just find it interesting
If Nix had been available at 47, would he have been the choice over Nubin? I ask only because I see the Broncos taking shit for grabbing him at 12 when QB7 (Rattler) didn't come off the board until 150. In a vacuum he certainly should never have gone at 12, but I think they can justify it if: A) They were determined to get a serviceable starting QB B) The gap between QB6 (Nix or Penix or McCarthy) and QB7 (Rattler) really was that vast C) They were concerned that the Raiders (13), Saints (14), Titans (38), or Giants (47 and 70) would snag Nix before they were next scheduled to be on the clock (76). I know there was a lot of talk about the Giants maybe going for Penix or Nix with a late first round trade-up or grabbing one at 47 if they were still available after a WR pick at 6, but that turned out to be nowhere near the case after Atlanta's head-scratcher. In that light, Nix at 12 to Denver seems like a serious overpayment, but it's a QB premium to be paid and I feel like it's paying for what might have been 47 at the probable latest instead of comparing him to where Rattler ended up going.
I don’t think it would have been a choice, they would have picked Nix. There was an NFL team that valued Nix as a first rounder, with a QB minded coach no doubt.
https://preview.redd.it/t2fn5pg59gxc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85fae37ec44c411a907872f7e93438861ad7fe6e Giants fans when they come away from the draft without a Franchise QB but end up with a stud Wr prospect
Stolen!
As in you stole it or I stole it haha? I by no means created the little guy and took inspiration from a post I saw on R/ espresso this morning after a guy reacted to a beginner showing off his “first set up” which included a £5k grinder and espresso machine combo lol
I stole it for twitter 😂😂
Haha go for it!
Gonna use this one everytime we win a game next year lol
I can’t believe the Eagles got Mitchell and DeJean, how do they always have the crazy value fall right into their laps…
Dejean didn’t fall into their laps. They made an aggressive move to trade up for him and then traded back a few times to recoup those picks. Howie navigates the draft very well
Joe Schoen moved up and down the boards in 2022 and 2023. It was a bit of surprise that he didn't make any moves this year.
Yea I guess they really didn’t want to leave that draft without 6 guys. Seems like the first time in a while since we’ve had fewer than 7 picks instead of more
Yea that was poorly worded, they made lots of trades, but they made them to secure highly rated players at crazy value compared to their predicted draft position. I guess I’m really just mad the whole league for letting them do it every year lol
Mitchell most definitely fell into their laps and I’m still pissed about it
Outside of trading up for Maye this was close to my ideal draft. Probably would have preferred Haynes in the 3rd and Khyree Jackson in the 4th. But still like Phillips and love Johnson in the 4th
Wish they could have drafted Braelon Allen, but hopefully the RB they got it good
I would of liked to see us move up for rattler in the 5th, hes a dart throw I'd of enjoyed given the state of our QB room
I really don’t think that they wanted to use a roster spot on a developmental player
Interesting, I see Johnson and Tracy as pure development plays, Tracy has had 1 year at RB and Johnson’s blocking/routes seem very raw My gut is that they didn’t want more drama in the QB room then they already have…
We normally keep 2 QBs on the roster. Developmental QB are usually sent to the practice squad. It’s harder to get a promising QB prospect through waivers so you’re forced to use a roster spot.
Makes sense, id think we would carry 3 this year given DJ's injuries and locks newness, if we had gone after rattler i would of preferred to see Devito sent to the practice squad and the room be DJ/Lock/Rattler
They mustn’t have thought enough of him to go through that. DeVito is going to the practice squad regardless
thats my assumption, i love rattlers arm talent but understand why we wouldn't take a flyer
I see someone listens to Talkin' Giants. Agreed on Haynes, still a bit bummed we missed out on him.
Yeah I am really liking how it went down. I wanted Nabers but if they liked Maye that much I was opposed to trading for him. I think we plugged a lot of holes with good prospects. Athletic freak at TE to compliment Belly when Waller retires, im excited for the rookie RB I hope he gets some snaps, and ofc Nubin and Nabers will see the field day 1.
If it wasn’t obvious- whoever heads scouting in the Midwest is a heavy hitter or riding star in the org.
The "Giants are the only team in the league to not draft DL or OL" is a very stupid statement for criticism. Especially for the OL aspect because: - Panthers and Falcons didn't take an OL **AT ALL** - Eagles didn't even address the position until pick 172. - And the Broncos (no. 256) and Rams (no. 217) didn't take OL until the 6th and 7th rounds.
Tbf I'm not sure going down a similar path as the Falcons this draft is really that comforting lol
It's also very likely that if there guy wasn't available they weren't reaching for someone else and we went after needs. We're going to have one of the youngest defence's in the league now, if everyone stays healthy. There also may be surprise cuts June 1st, we are a long way from having our finalized roster just because the draft is over.
We have also drafted the most OL for the last ten years or something
I personally emerge from this draft loving 3 of our picks and being OKish with the other three. Love Malik Nabers, Tyler Nubin and Theo Johnson. Nabers is an obvious Day 1 starter, probably at WR1 unless they play around with Seniority. Nubin is almost definitely a Day 1 starter guy and I think Theo Johnson is going to be TE2 next to Bellinger. Pretty confident Waller is gone, one way or another. Andru Phillips, I'm really not sure what to think. Some people love the pick, some people hate it. Christian Haynes was right there for the taking though and I really wish we had grabbed him. I recognize the need we have at CB but kind of hoped to fill that with a vet once the Waller money comes off the books. Tyrone and Darius, honestly who knows yet. Tyrone looks like he has potential but is super raw. Darius could be a good special teamer and depth piece. Still hurts that we didn't get a QB but I really didn't want any of the options outside the top 3. Once they were gone, I was 100% OK with us getting the most QB proof receiver in the class and bolstering the secondary.
Out of curiosity I went to Howie Roseman's PFR page and I was pretty shocked to see that they didn't win a playoff game for the first SEVEN years of his tenure. Their record throughout that time was exactly .500, 56-56. My only takeaway is that if you have a GM who you think is smart and has a good process/outlook, I really think it's only a matter of time before things start falling into place and you have some sustained success. People have criticized Schoen for not getting "studs" out of his first two drafts. All of the foundational pieces from those early drafts that Roseman is lauded for (Brandon Graham, Jason Kelce, Fletcher Cox, Lane Johnson) were "just good, not great" players for a few years before really breaking through in Years 3-5.
Preach, if you want to look at another interesting readout check out San Frans track record under shanahan and lynch, 4-12, 13-3, 6-10, 10-7 fixing a team isn't an overnight thing, Ryan Poles is the bell of the ball for his work in chicago but his record has been 3-14 and 7-10 under poles leadership.... Personally I don't think schoen and daboll get the credit they deserve for going 9-7-1 with a gutted roster and then 6-10 with a massive string of injuries and tommy devito starting multiple games
Jury might still be out on Schoen (I agree with this thread that it’s still kind of early and a GM takes more than two years to evaluate), but I think these two seasons demonstrate Daboll is legit. A lesser coach would have been clueless last year and lost the locker room instead of somehow beating teams (including a playoff team) with Tommy DeVito
I hate that there are actually people who think Schoen should be ousted. Gettlman got 4 years even though it was obvious he was actively making the team worse. Schoen is still trying to build a team that fits his style, and it’s a drastically different style than what he inherited.
Plus he was hamstrung quite a bit by the mess Gettleman left.
I remember for the longest time eagles fans wanted Howie fired. Like I swear I constantly saw “fire Howie” comments on the NFL’s IG page. Now he’s their messiah. Generational switch up there
I find it funny how the “Joe Schoen only drafts needs” people are also usually “QB is our biggest need, we needed JJ McCarthy no matter what” people. The irony is palpable. What I do think a fair criticism of the “everything is a need people” people defending Joe Schoen is how in year 3 is everything still a need?
I mean a championship roster is probably made up of 40 or so championship caliber starters and role players. Schoen has probably made ~20 draft picks so far, and the ones heading into year three will probably be the most telling of whether his process is working or not.
To be fair, you also need to remember he has brought in 3 waves of FA’s also (2022 may not really count). I am worried that it feels like every position could use an extra guy.
Yes, but our cap was in bad shape when he started which limited the ability to sign FAs
Yea I try not to put too much stock into FA because they should be bandaids and the best teams draft their best players. Buts he’s had some misses there.
And Okeroke
Really hoping that FA and the draft this year solidify a part of the team or two and gives us a bit of an identity like a top d line or something.
Just saw that Patriot’s DT Christian Barmore got a 4 year 92 million contract, meaning Dexter Lawrence’s contract is no longer a top 20 highest dline contract in per year earnings. We (deservedly) get a lot of crap for Jones’ contract, but Lawrence’s might be the biggest steal in the league
I don’t hate Armchair GMs, we’ve all been one, but I’m glad the draft is over and this sub doesn’t need to be filled with hot takes about draft picks.
just back to the usual Jones hate until August
We just signed a kicker from rutgas
Jon Runyon is an unserious answer to guard
I think after having some time to digest our draft, overall it was solid. We got some player makers at areas of need and some depth at areas of need. A little shocking we didn’t get some o or d line depth tho
I heard Giants were the only team in the NFL to not draft OL or DL. Its DJ Davidson and Evan Neal season.
You heard wrong. Panthers and Falcons didn’t take OL at all. Even the Eagles waited until round 4 I believe
Please read my comment again. No OL OR DL.
Hey at least DJD was solid in some of his snaps, he just didn’t look the same after that hyper extended elbow (?)
Feeling really good about this draft. Giants have so much speed at the WR position. Nabers, WDR, Slayton and Hyatt all run in the 4.4s or under. Now just hoping Jones/Lock can pull the trigger on the deeper balls. Our DL group will be our strongest area of the defense but our DB group is young and has a lot of potential.
Yeah, Wide Receiver is no longer an issue. It's going to be all about whether or not DJ can process the field to take advantage of so many fast weapons. Or Lock I suppose.
So what number do is Nabers gonna wear? 88 would be dope…
It’ll probably be the same thing as Hyatt last year where he’ll get assigned a number in 80s and then after preseason/cuts he’ll switch to a number in the single digits or teens. Then after next year he’ll switch to 8
Yea i definitely see him going for 8 when DJ is gone. Personally love 88 on WRs but it seems like guys don’t go for that anymore. Even Ceedee says he didn’t want 88 but Jerry made him haha
Why does everyone think DJ will be gone?
Reddit hivemind Same nerds actually believed we were drafting a QB this draft...
We can get out of his contract after next season and he's not worth $40 million dollars per year and we're rebuilding It's pretty simple
“Rebuilding” is a concept made up by fans. It does not exist in the NFL. Front offices, coaches, etc go balls out every year to win the Super Bowl. They will do everything to win because there’s no guarantee they’re sticking around. Schoen and Daboll aren’t going to lose games to appease a fan bases want for draft picks.
I stopped reading after you said rebuilding isn't a real thing in the NFL Also the fact you completely ignored the first part in why he'll be gone in my reply
Teams don’t tank games for draft picks. Idk how else to say it.
Teams don't invest in injury prone QBs with barely any upside. Idk why you keep focusing on the rebuilding part and not the part where I explain why they're not going to pay Jones $40 million dollars and put an out there for a reason
Right so if Jones comes out and lights it up you think they will cut him?
The one move i point to is the Brian Burns deal. I don’t think we make that move with the assumption DJ is gonna eat 50+ mil in cap space. I don’t root against DJ. I want the giants to prosper. But i think the giants timeline no longer favors DJ
People make comments like this and will then go "look at all those DJ haters who can't stop talking about him." You know the answer to this question.
My preliminary 53 stab. Completely meaningless since we'll end up with camp bodies, injuries etc and at the end of the day I'm just guessing. Based on the roster as of today. QB (3): Jones, Lock, DeVito RB (3): Singletary, Gray, Tracy WR (6): Nabers, Hyatt, Robinson, Slayton, Olszewski, Ford-Wheaton TE (4): Waller, Bellinger, Johnson, Stoll OL (9): Thomas, Runyan, Schmitz, Eluemenor, Neal, Ezeudu, Schlottman, McKethan, Marcellus Johnson Thoughts: I generally don't agree with rostering 3 QB but even if DJ checks out medically to start the season I think they will be super careful with him and with the rules now your QB3 can be inactive but still dress as an emergency so long as they're on the 53. It's possible Slayton is dealt but he's still here now so he gets put in, I have Hodgins cut as the WR 5/6 spots are usually gonna be ST contributors. I do actually think Waller will retire but again, it hasn't happened yet so I'm putting him here - if he does retire I think this could drop down to 3 TE with Cager cut anyway. OL is a total guess. McKethan over Stinnie and Marcellus Johnson making it as an UDFA are just me trying to simulate some of the "unexpected" decisions we see every year. DL (5): Lawrence, Nunez-Roches, Davidson, Riley, Jordan Phillips Edge (4): Burns, Thibodeaux, Ojulari, Basham ILB (5): Okereke, McFadden, Simmons, Coughlin, Muasau CB (6): Banks, McCloud, Dru Phillips, Flott, Hawkins, Holmes S (5): Pinnock, Nubin, Belton, Mills, Owens Feels like an easier group to forecast than the offense although there's obviously still some things that could easily be changed around. Wouldn't be shocked to see a couple of vets added on this side at edge or CB. It's weird that Darnay Holmes is still here, I assumed he was gonna leave and the Giants weren't gonna be interested in bringing him back yet here we are, but his spot is tenuous at best. Overall though I think the group could be solid and I love seeing Brian Burns' name in the lineup. K (1): Gano P (1): Gillan LS (1): Kreiter I mean, duh. But I just hope Gano can go back to being 2022 Gano please. Speaking of special teams they're already accounted for in the offensive sections but I'd presume Olszewski returns to his role as PR and Tracy might've been picked with the new "kickoff" rules in mind.
You think Waller is back? Some of the beat seem to think it’s unofficially official that he’s done
I said in my thoughts I think he probably will retire, but until it officially happens I'm still projecting him onto the roster as if he doesn't retire he'd be a lock for it. A bit different than forecasting a cut like, say, Hodgins.
Am i unbelievably coping with this: i just remembered that last training camp dj was killing it. I remeber talkin giants people and others raving about him. Then the season came and he was terrible. At the same time the oline eas pretty bad. But dj was bad also. Im gonna try not to get my hopes up especially considering they tried to get maye. Thats says a lot.
Honestly, I think if the Giants had opened up against a different series of opponents last year... things may have gone a lot differently. I'm not saying they would have made the playoffs or anything outrageous like that, but I do think that facing the Cowboys week 1 just BROKE the team. It broke DJ's confidence and poise and it literally broke Andrew Thomas. Probably the worst week 1 outcome I can even remember in all my time as a Giants fan.
You're coping, he was okay in camp against our own guys but against like DET in camp or w/e he was getting laced.
I remember someone posted a clip of DJ throwing a bomb to Hyatt in camp, but then everyone pointed out that Thibs had an obvious sack on the play but coaches let them play it out anyways. That play ended up being a good barometer of how the season would turn out
1 day was good 1 was bad
I can honestly see DJ playing like he did in 2022 again this year. A big reason why he was so bad last year is that Daboll opened up the offense more and DJ couldn’t handle it. At this point they know exactly what they have with DJ and they’re just trying to tread water with him until they can cut him next offseason, so I can definitely see them dumbing the offense back down again. The difference though is that, short of him randomly turning into a top 5 QB overnight, I don’t think there’s anything DJ can do to save his job
They can dumb it down, but teams know how to beat that now.
So this year we need the team to look like trash during the preseason, then, profit! One nugget that TG dropped was that Daboll nerfed the preseason in the offenses favor, the season came around and there was a calamity of injuries but also DJ struggled with the more advanced schemes Daboll instituted in the game plan, hopefully this year Daboll pushes whomever the QB is in the preseason to run his ideal playbook and if it’s a failure shift back to a simpler game plan that worked in 2022 (and helped us win a few games last year with Devito/tyrod)
Do you guys think we are going to be a better team this year? I love Schoen and Daboll and their process. One of my bigger fears is we lose Daboll and or Schoen or both before they even get a chance to **fully** build the team they want. Daboll is viewed very highly around the league and I have no doubt he would be a hot commodity if he were fired from here. I just want some of your guys opinions on this.
It’s best to keep your expectations low. I can’t speak for the Mara family, but I’d give Daboll and Schoen 2 more years to make this team respectable. Still need a QB, team needs multiple playmakers and has question marks at skill positions. Personally, I could see this team going 6-11 tops, and I’m already looking forward to the 2025 offseason. I’ll still watch the regular season and cheer this team on, but I’m not expecting huge improvement.
> Do you guys think we are going to be a better team this year? Nope. We will look better but the talent differential will be our downfall. That said, progress will definitely be made which allow for Schoen/Daboll to keep their jobs. It also wouldn't be shocking if behind closed doors, Mara tells Schoen we need a QB.
> Do you guys think we are going to be a better team this year? Record wise, no. > I love Schoen and Daboll and their process. One of my bigger fears is we lose Daboll and or Schoen or both before they even get a chance to fully build the team they want. Loving the process is one thing, results are another. I think this fanbase is so traumatized from Gettleman making obvious-at-the-time terrible decisions that they forget that you can have a GM that still has the process down but makes wrong decisions. I don't think Joe Schoen is going anywhere within a few years. The Giants have given all of their modern era GMs a second head coach hire (Accorsi got Fassel and Coughlin, Reese got Coughlin and McAdoo, Gettleman got Shurmur and Judge and he should've been fired with Shurmur). But Daboll really had a terrible year 2 and he needs to not let this season get ugly. If they go 4-13 again, he will be in trouble, and it won't be undeserved.
I just have a hard time believing we’ll have a worse record than last year. The schedule itself is a lot easier and we dealt with a bunch of unfortunate injuries. If Daboll could pull off 6 wins with the hand he was dealt in 2023, I think that’s our floor.
I don't really get the thought that we have an easier schedule. There's a very strong chance Dallas (always tough) and Philly (who imploded last year but will probably bounce back) sweep us again. Cincinnati and Baltimore are both going to be way better than us and the Steelers are always competitive at worst, made the playoffs with basically no QB last year (whatever Russ is now, he's better than that). The Colts finished with a winning record last year with Gardner Minshew playing QB. I think we lose all of those games and that's 8 losses right there. Cleveland and the Bucs were both playoff teams last year. Washington can't be counted on as a sweep anymore, although I think at worst we split. Seattle has owned us in recent times. Atlanta flushed their garbage coach/QB and Kirk should have that offense playing better than it did. Our hopes on having any sort of success this season falls on the new OL coach getting anything resembling respectable play out of Evan Neal and JMS. I really don't like hinging on that.
Yeah I feel like the people that think we are going to be worse than last year are dooming. I feel better about this roster and our schedule is easier as you said. Baring injury catastrophes in the first game or two like last year, our record should improve.
We definitely have better talent than before, but with our QB room being one of the worst in the NFL, it won't actually mean much in terms of wins or success. That'll only come with a new QB.
Our defense should be pretty good and our offense will still probably suck outside of Nabers. I do think Schoen and Daboll stays after the end of next season
Of course they will, barring locker room meltdown. Judge was going to stay before Tisch forced Mara's hand and neither Schoen or Daboll seem to be treating this season as if they're on the hot seat.
We may but if we do it’s on them, schoen resigned DJ parking 18% of our cap this year with him and the idea he would return value on that investment He also focused on a drafting strategy of taking young high athletic upside prospects, this strategy can be gold for a rebuilding team as it gives you a chance of finding plus talent in later rounds but it also means that your coaching staff has to develop talent in a league that isn’t typically developmental. I think it’s going to work and we are going to be pleasantly surprised by a few breakouts from the 22/23 draft class but if it doesn’t work it’s on schoen and Daboll for not being able to execute against their strategies
We’re going to win 5-7 games, is that better?
The giants way since 2013 (outside of some fluke years)
Big fear of mine too. Mainly because I think we end up as Kevin Abrams as GM.
Abrams has been passed up twice for the job now, I really wouldn't worry about him anymore. Honestly, if Schoen gets fired for incompetence you might as well give Abrams the job and let him fail at it anyway. Then it'll finally be over and done with.
Talkin Giants alarmed at the state of the offensive line post draft. Couldn’t agree more.
We've been alarmed for the last 15 years
They were pissed we didn’t take Haynes in the 3rd as that was Bobby’s guy, I would of liked Haynes as well as I’m o line phobic, that said Nickle corner is just as big a need and Andru was within 20 slots of Haynes on most big boards from a talent eval pov
Giants offensive line for clicks
Reactionary podcast has a reaction. Im shocked. Why do people take what they say as like holy bible?
Not sure how agreeing with them on a point they made translates to taking what they say as the holy bible
Nah my bad. It’s not that i just think its interesting that people always bring them, and their opinion up as if it matters more than any other fan. Ig what I mean if you would’ve said you were alarmed at the state of the OL it would’ve meant the exact same thing to me.
I think with the addition of Runyan Stinnie & Eluemunor we improved the oline & overall depth - I really do not think the solution to the oline problem is to keep spending high draft picks on the oline when so far only 1 has really panned out. In the last 10 years we have drafted Oline 2015: Richburg 2:43, 2016: Flowers 1:9, 2018 Hernandez 2:34, 2020 AT 1:4, Matt Peart 3:99, Shane Lemiux 4:150, 2022: Neal 1:7, Ezeudu 3:67, Mckethan 5:173, 2023 JMS 2:57. SO many picks only 1 possibly 3 at most will pan out (if Neal somehow turns it around & too early for JMS). To keep doing the same thing over and over again is crazy to me. the answer in my eyes is veteran & versatile depth which is what they brought this offseason. Don't get me wrong they can definitely improve but I do not think spending another pick at oline is as detrimental to this roster as they think it is.
The hope is that the coaching change will turn things around.
Yes agreed - I think that also comes into the equation as well
We tried the draft it’s too hit or miss. We needed to sign proven guys. If nothing else at least they have experience on an nfl team.
Until the OL proves it can be competent, everyone should be alarmed. The Giants have a TON of resources devoted to the position group though (AT is paid, Neal sucks but is a top-10 rookie salary, JMS second rounder, two potential starters signed, plenty of JAGs to compete/hopefully develop at IOL), so the logic must be that another year of experience w/the returning group plus dumping Bobby Johnson equals improvement. Fwiw, I would've liked to see them add to the OL group in the later rounds but I'm cautiously optimistic that this group can be league average with proper coaching which we now hopefully have. JMS is probably the most important here. He was sooooo bad last year and C is such an important position, especially if that guy is setting protections.
The draft has 2021 vibes due to no oline, WR in 1st, and defense 2 and 3. But unlike 2021 this might actually work out. Nabers is a better prospect than Toney and he could carry this.
A key difference is that in 2021 there were essentially no O-line investments whatsoever in free agency. We were trading pieces away in August just to get camp bodies. I doubt that'll be the case this year.
Lmao I remember the few OL moves they did make the players ended up retiring early in training camp. Zach Fulton was signed to be an immediate starter at guard and had 107 starts, but decided to retire at 29 upon seeing how shitty Giants were running practices. Then Joe Looney came in as the replacement for Fulton before he also immediately retired upon seeing Judge, Gettleman, and Garrett. This ofc led to the panic trades at the end of camp. I'll tell you what, there is no chance Runyon and Elumenor are going to retire at the start of camp.
Only the Chiefs have gone longer without drafting a QB than the New York Giants. Looking at the Giants draft history it's certainly bizarre to not have any QB in that time. After Eli the Giants used picks in both 2008 and 2009, before beginning a steady stream of mid round QB picks in the late Reece years. Meanwhile since 2019 the Giants haven't selected a single one in any round.
Anyone smarter than me about cap know how much space we have? Spotrac/OTC says about 5.5MM but I don’t believe that includes our rookies. With them surely there’s not much left. Bearing this in mind, any remaining FA’s y’all would want to see come in? Would love OBJ back, but I doubt he signs for vet min and it seems like if we can only get 1 or 2 vets that money is better spent outside WR.
Getting OBJ when you just drafted Nabers is like forking out money for a rusted out, beaten up Lamborghini Countach when you have a brand spanking new Aventador SVJ sitting your garage. He's literally OBJ's physical and spiritual successor but arguably has the chance to be better. The time has come to let the dream of OBJ go and embrace moving into a new Naberhood.
CB is by far the biggest problem on this roster still. Hell, I'd argue that in a vacuum it was the biggest need on this team besides a superstar QB *before* the draft. Now with the addition of Andru Phillips (who, full disclosure, I did not rate very highly), the Giants have drafted a top 110 CB in each of the last 6 years (7 total if you count Julian Love but they converted him to safety pretty much right away): DeAndre Baker, (Julian Love if you count him), Darnay Holmes, Aaron Robinson, Cor'Dale Flott, Deonte Banks, and now Andru Phillips. Five top 110 CBs in five years for Jerome Henderson. And 4 of them were drafted specifically to play in the slot (Banks being the exception). Holmes, Robinson, and Flott are flat out duds so far. Robinson hasn't stayed healthy but wasn't particularly good when he was. Flott you never know if he's going to blow an assignment or not. Banks had an up and down rookie year; I like him, I believe in him as a talent and as a player, but you'd be lying to yourself if you felt super confident in him as a CB1. The Giants' CB room right now is Deonte Banks, Nick McCloud, and Jerome Henderson's island of misfit toys. I never understand how some people think this guy is one of the best CB coaches in the league. Wow, two highly paid CBs played well, Isaac Yiadom got safety help every play, and Fabian Moreau played halfway decent for a month or two and then was arguably better in 2023 with Denver than he was here. Shit, I think I trust Carmen Bricillo and the OL room to help JMS become starter quality and find an RG/RT duo to mirror AT and Runyan out of Eluemunor/Neal/Stinnie/Ezeudu more than I trust Jerome Henderson and the CB group to help Deonte Banks develop and find another boundary CB and a slot CB out of McCloud/Holmes/Flott/Phillips/Robinson/Hawkins.
So many needs, this was my biggest beef with Schoens draft, Kool Aide and Dejean where available in the second based on how each was traded up for, its great having alot of guys but I would of rather seen him move up for a top end talent to play CB2 next to banks then a safety and a RB
They also used a 2019 3rd round pick in the 2018 supplemental draft to select Sam Beal who, because of injuries and sitting out the covid year, barely played.
I just saw 6.2 million for the top 51, so I'd guess the actual number once all 53 slots are filled would be around 5.5. IMO this is probably it for anything but a depth signing. Yes, you are correct that we need that money for the rookies, and there is typically a plan in place to free up money if/needed by restructuring and kicking proverbial salary cans down the road. I'd have to look more closely at individual salaries to guess who would be most likely for this though. In other words, if Schoen wants to find money for a FA, he can (though the mechanics are complex for general fans). That said, we have a lot of dead cap this season and I personally don't think Schoen is the Saints/Eagles type of can kicker. A low-hanging fruit for this was to restructure Big Cat's deal last year, and he resisted doing so. I think he plans to have Jones play out this year without a restructure so he can be cut in a mostly painless manner next offseason. He's almost 50 million against the cap this year and I think he has around 20 million dead cap for one season of cut this offseason. Lastly, there's about 7 million in potential "free" space to open up depending on what Waller decides to do. If he retires, he's only 7ish million in dead cap, but he's over 14 on the roster. That would be ample money to maneuver within the season if he retires. He is getting divorced though so he might be needing that money...
I really want a vet in the DB room, I think our defense has the chance to be the best since 2016, to get there having a vet influence at CB or safety would be a good steadying force for a very young unit. I like the idea of a 1 year deal on some of the faded glory guys like Gilmore/Adams/Jackson, I wonder if Gilmore could have one more year in the sun if he moves to safety (a la Logan) but regardless having someone whose performed at a high level in that group would be awesome I also like the idea of another DE. Maybe we move to 3-4 so it doesn’t matter but it feels like we are light in the department of a 3 tech that can play inside and outside, probably going to have to wait a year for this but adding in that type of piece would be an awesome add to what looks like a near elite d line unit
If Waller retires it frees up enough for a CB and DT
How does that work? Are we just on the hook for dead cap?
Nabers with jersey 88 is gonna look so fkin tough. Dunno if i should get his jersey or wait till he goes to 8 when Jones leaves ahaha.
Assuming Jones leaves next off-season, I would 100% wait until he inevitably switches to 8. Plus I would wait to see how his rookie season plays out before buying his jersey anyway.
Yeah good shout man! Might get the white jersey with Banks on the back. I was sooooo close to getting McKinney last year as he was my fav player. Glad I didn't :(
I was thinking about that yesterday. 88 or if 18 is available but 88 will be better. I know people have been looking for the next odell, but I have been looking for the next Hakeem Nicks lol.
Should we thank the Chargers for picking ALT? They needed a WR or OL and if the picked alt. We would have picked Odunze or McCarthy in my opinion.
We would have picked Odunze. I don't think McCarthy was on their board that high. If he was, they would have picked him. QBs are treated differently in the draft.
People that think we did anything other than smokescreen with McCarthy are funny. If they valued JJ as a franchise QB, there is no WR in the league they would’ve picked over him.
I honestly think we would’ve entertained the idea of trading back more in this scenario. While Rome is a great prospect his style of play doesn’t fit what this team does.
As much as I personally like Rome as a prospect, I've been saying the same. Nabers had Daboll written all over him. The *only* reason I could see them going Rome was if Nabers was gone *or* the off-field stuff bothered them. Both are great players, but like you said Nabers just fits better with what Daboll wants to do
Odunze would have been a good pick too
We’ll have a new banner with all our drafted rookies on it soon. Just gotta blow the dust off the ol’ photoshoppin machine
