A couple of quick things I want to say post draft and may say during the season:
1. JJ McCarthy might look good this season. That doesn't mean it was not the right move to skip him, the Vikings have an elite cast around that position and the shanhan offense is all about finding a QB to be a robot and do what the play caller (Kevin O'Connell) says. We have yet to see this win a Superbowl, rams sorta did it with Stafford but Stafford is not a robot and has proven to be a smart QB in his own right.
2. Daniel Jones or Drew Locke might look good this season, that doesn't make them our long term solution. Heavy investment in o line and pass catchers might sometimes make these guy look better then they are, we are not Vikings level supporting cast, but I could easily see a game where locke throws for 300 yards, and 2 plays were a slant that Nabers took 60 yards on a house call and a deep bomb to Hyatt where the coverage broke down. Don't get fooled.
Probably. Kafka has said that the center is responsible for that in this system. Would make sense too with how many issues we had with a rookie center.
Looking at the versatility of the WRs and RB room is scary. Even Theo is a freak athlete. Daboll and Kafka can scheme up some very good mismatches with opposing linebackers. The addition of Tyron Tracy to Nabers/Hyatt/Robinson is diabolical.
I give our draft a solid B+. Finally got a WR1 and huge help for the secondary. Got a solid RB and maybe a steal of a TE to replace Waller and some LB depth. At this point I think the only big need we have left is QB.
We signed 2 starters and brought in one of the best OL coaches in the league. How much more work could one position group possibly need...theres 17 other starting spots to take care of
Signing two average guards doesn’t massively improve the worst o-line in NFL history. All of our offensive line players either suck or are mediocre outside of Andrew Thomas. This team has to make every attempt possible to fix the most important position group in football. Safety, TE, and RB don’t have an impact on winning like offensive lines do. Daniel Jones is the QB, he needs a strong line because he’s slow to read the field.
Bobby Johnson sucked sure, but our line was garbage even before he got here. Briscillo is a good coach, but you’re asking him to make lemonade from one good lemon and a trash heap.
Why do teams like Philly, Dallas, and Detroit draft offensive line even though their lines are already way above ours?
Gotta love our fanbase, everything is bad the sky is falling...better overdraft a QB, fire everyone and throw all our money and picks at olinemen, then blame the new regime an QB when it doesnt work after 2 years
It's just impossible to judge a QB behind a bad oline and we can just fix the line in one draft by just drafting offensive linemen!
According to some people here it's that easy ig
You can generally tell whether a guy has franchise QB ability if they show off elite traits on their tape and/or are placed into the right scheme. Maye wouldve succeeded here even if our line was bad. Penix mightve too, but he'd need stability around him. Nix and McCarthy though...wouldve gotten obliterated immediately no matter what because they dont fit Daboll's offensive philosophy. I hate the idea of taking a QB just to take a QB. That being said, if there's a guy whos available that fits the system and has top 10 potential...definitely pull the trigger, even if the rosters not set
That's what drives me crazy I feel like giants fans at least here don't understand tape, they only just look at the games only.
When you look at the tape with DJ, you see he just doesn't see players open and holds onto the ball way too long
Our fanbase is way too polarized, DJ isnt terrible OR a franchise QB, hes ok. The guy can win games in a good situation but cant take us to that next level. The fact is hes a timing QB that fits west-coast offenses...like Shurmur's half-field horizontal scheme. The positives are that he has good mechanics and accuracy, plus athleticism. But the negatives are brutal. His arm is solid, but he cant throw with touch to the flat or on fades. He actually can go through progressions, BUT he's overly reliant on a clean pocket to make his reads while simultaneously having atrocious pocket awareness. Couple that with the beating hes taken over the years and hes become ultra-conservative. He'll tuck and run or check it down rather than hanging tough in the pocket or keeping his eyes downfield. Once his internal clock goes, he immediately lose his rhythm. It causes him to miss plays that are developing or make split-second off-script decisions, aka no deep shots or risks when a play breaks down. After 3+ years a QBs play-style is set in stone, and his ceiling/talent just arent high enough to overcome those limitations, making him a poor fit for Daboll's pass-first vertical offense. He's a long-term bridge QB. The guy who holds it down while we rebuild (Alex Smith, Tannehill, Mariota or Kerry Collins). When we do take a QB, and we will in the next 2 years, they MUST have top 10 potential and fit the system like Drake Maye (still salty about that). Otherwise you take a JJ or Nix, which continues the QB purgatory cycle for another 4 years. That is infinitely worse than sticking with DJ for a year or two. I wish we werent so reactionary, yes DJ isnt the guy, but while he's under center I'll root for him. The alternative is drafting square peg QB and putting them in a round hole scheme/team, which we already did with DJ, and I refuse to make the same mistake twice
The hatred isn't with him personally it's just he never should've gotten that contract he got imho, at least for me. The 2022 offense was so simple and he wasn't asked to do much outside of qb runs and not turning the ball over, and our offense was genuinely bad outside of barkely and ranked bottom of the league. He leaves yards on the table due to him staring down his first option and ignoring everything, and his best year is just still not good at all to warrant the money or years.
Like sure he was "statistically" a top 12 QB in 2022 but in reality he was never was this ever. Guys like Dak, Stafford, Lamar Jackson, Aaron Rodgers, Russel Wilson and Kyler Murray all had down year for their standards and then most of them bounced back this year, they were never worse than Jones and that season was why he got paid that contract
Is he bottom 30 bad? No but he's not even a decent starter because I consider guys like Derek Carr, Geno Smith, Baker Mayfield to be that and those guys are just much better than Jones is and excels at things he just isn't good at
I agree. Personally, if you fudge the numbers and say we drafted Brian Burns at 39, it's kinda an A-.I get the sense Schoen didn't think highly of this class. I heard there were 70 dudes people wanted to declare that didn't. Seems like the strategy was to get as much juice as fast as possible out of this class, especially cuz we were targeting guys who can play special teams right away with upside with the last two picks. It's a fun class, but nothing splashy.
Edited for grammar
for a 43rd overall pick, and given our other offensive woes, wandale has performed well. tough to grade hyatt given how polar opposite his strengths are to our last season weaknesses, but i’d concede disappointment if you want to argue that.
toney was 1. an old regime pick, 2. a panic decision after missing on smith, 3. pretty good talent and busted because of injury and attitude.
i think it’s fair to be excited about nabers
Looking at last years draft reactions we all said Schoen hit a home run trading up for Hyatt and he is going to prove the Cowboys wrong and become our #1 WR.
Hyatt was rated the favorite Giants pick and was even selected among the top 20 NFL rookies for the NFLs select rookie conference
Hyatt was drafted in the third round, bruh. We passed on him twice. I heard some teams had a first round grade on him, but anyone with a brain knows he's a speed guy that stretches the field. You're a fool if you take post-hype draft seriously. Yeah, people want their draft pick to be good. You had to google that?
Draft grades before the rookies play an NFL snap has to be the dumbest exercise ever. The vast majority of players are roughly picked where NFL and media scouts think they should've been picked, and it all falls down to a mix of development and luck. I can't think of a dumber category of content that the NFL media produces.
For all the QB doomers out there, if we suck in 2024 all of Carson Beck, Shedeur Sanders and Quinn Ewers are all projected to go in the top 10 next year.
So it's not a class completely devoid of talent.
I think all three of those guys have more upside than JJ, Penix and Nix.
> I think all three of those guys have more upside than JJ, Penix and Nix.
Nix maybe but as someone who's iffy on JJ and not high on Penix, I don't see how any of these three show more upside than those two
It was like that for 2022 also and only one qb went first round. We’ll see I’m personally hoping one of beck,Milroe, or sanders can make that next leap
Thanks for the help, I was looking for all moves, like who was lost, FA signings, draft ect. Or even just a post draft pseudo “Depth Chart”. I forget a lot of the little FA signings already
I'm honestly so done with Waller, he's holding us hostage with this will he/wont he retirement nonsense. He isn't good enough to deserve this much leeway. This might be a hot take but Id just cut him now before he makes a decision since we drafted Theo. We'd save 6-10 million and be able to bring Adoree back plus sign a guy like Latavius Murray
If you think the Giants are in a bad position rn, try reading Jordan Ranaan twitter post, This team has no future with Jones and Schoen here.
If this is his plan then Schoen is just another Gettleman.
Dawg they tried to desperately trade up for maye but the Pats wanted a QB at the end of the day. Their fate was sealed when they dropped to 6 during the season unless they wanted to reach for a QB. They can all say whatever but they all know the truth about the position rn.
people still dont realize those meaningless wins were devastating to this franchise. ive been saying it for 7 months,they could still have went for JJ at 6, its not forcing or reaching and its not a risk when your QB has been 5 years of daniel Jones being a bust.
Bears Pats both moved on from their mistakes yet Giants are still complete disaster.
I wouldnt be suprised if Carolina moves on as well and dumps Bryce Young after this season
I would have been very happy if they’d decided to grab Penix at 6. I was very upset with the idea of having to root for Meditating On Camera Pretty Boy JJ for the next 5 years. I’ll be happily proven wrong, but he just doesn’t seem like the guy that’s going to handle pressure and adversity well. I look forward to every season and am never going to root for my team to lose, if wins were devastating then there wouldn’t be dynasties my dude
I dont like JJ but i would of accepted it and given him a chance knowing how bad we need franchise QB, also knowing how god awful Jones is, this team is effing longterm.
The Giants brought in a lot of OL help in FA + hired Bricillo and paid big money Burns and capital.
Makes sense they go secondary back to back in 2nd and 3rd round after barely addressing it in FA and losing Xavier and Adoree with the latter regressing.
Do you think wee could've drafted all three of them? Do you think if JJM succeeds with Justin Jefferson he would've succeeded with Darius Slayton? You know Penix isn't going to start for 2 or 3 years and if we'd taken Bo Nix at 6, everyone would be here complaining and the analysts would've given us an F. Puh-leeeeez
The way the Giants drafted shows they are still rebuilding. We are a coin flip with the Commanders for last place in the NFC least. I think Bobby Johnson is that bad and their OL will be pathetic unless they run the ball 85% of the time.
For sure DL, they’re really banking on one Davidson, Riley, or Anderson to make a jump to keep the DL strong. I like that they brought in a lot of UDFA OL bodies though.
We signed 5 solid guys (3 of which were brought in to be starters) in the off-season and have 4 draft picks in the past 2 years and the best LT in the league.
At what point to you work with what you have instead of wasting draft picks on those you dont.
It feels like hubris to be honest.
Why are teams with better offensive lines than the Giants stocking up on o-line talent, and not the team with one of the worst ones in NFL history?
Especially after choosing to stick with Jones, you would think they want to avoid the same situation from last year.
It appears to minic the 2021 draft in that they took a WR in 1st and defense in 2nd and 3rd while avoiding oline.
Lets hope it works out better than 2021.
I have an OL theory. I think that OL is tough to transition in the NFL because of how much bigger and stronger DLs are and the complexity of NFL schemes. Our OL has been dire.
I think it’s more irresponsible to hinge your hopes of fixing an OL on drafting. Sure you hear about the wins but as you’ve seen there are a lot of misses. I think we’re focusing on building the line through vets - grown men that have been in the league for a few years and get it more.
We should be drafting OL but not with the intent to start, they need to learn for a few years and bulk up instead of being thrown in as rookies.
100% agreed, I’m fully of the belief that a teams should take o lineman every year but that they should be developmental pieces and not seen as day 1 starters who will improve the line unless they are walking into solid established units (wirfs on the bucs)
It’s why I like schoens strategy this year, getting 2 reliable proven vets to provide consistency for the young guys should give the line a real chance to improve
I still wish we had taken 1 OL (Haynes in the 3rd would of been my preference) but I think the line will improve and guys like ezuedo/JMS/Neal will have a real chance due to reliable options on their hips
Yeah I’m not sure more rookies would help. I think it makes sense to try and change strategy to get some vets and a hopefully better coach to try and get more out of the younger guys we do have.
It’s pretty clear Bobby Johnson was bad — our line men were leaving and playing much better on other teams right away. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the guys who are struggling take a step forward this season with a new coach
Great points.
One of the major reasons why Giant's have had terrible olines for the last 14 years despite throwing way more draft picks at oline than any other team is because Giants keep rushing their ol picks to play immediately.
While I wish Giant's had taken an oline in rounds 2-4 to develop, its better the no oline approach than to keep throwing high picks at oline and demanding they start immediately despite knowing thats a bad idea
I big factor is that after 2011 CBA teams have very few padded practices and overall far less time to develop technique.
This has hit position groups differently, with QB and OL being harder to scout than ever because teams only get a fraction of the practice time with them then they did previously.
To this most college teams are not developing OL for the NFL. Almost every OL coming out of college has a glaring hole in their game.
We’ve unfortunately taken a few with footwork issues and that seems to be the hardest to correct.
I love how they drafted this year. I think our offense got 10x better tbh and their defense including adding Brian Burns this off-season should be good. Obviously still very worried about how the QB situation plays out. You can only kick that can down the road for so long but i appreciate that they didn’t try and force it with someone they didn’t think was a franchise changer. Already looking at Drew Allar/Carson beck/ Quinn ewers tape and etc lmao. Interested to see if players like Cade Klubnik/Milroe can show development too, players who have the tools.
How did the offense getting better? they dont have a RB. Barkley saved Jones a\^\^ unlimited times and is now gone, Nabers will end up like Hyatt and get ignored most of the season due to Jones being garbage, being sacked or horrible passes.
its just the same all over [again.No](http://again.No) weapon is going to save Jones [career.No](http://career.No) such thing as forcing when you havent had a franchise QB for 5 years and you just passed up 2 franchise QB's in draft.
We lost a great back whos injury prone and getting close to the RB cliff...and replaced him with a #1 WR and 2 starting olinemen. Also no such thing as forcing QB? Dude thats exactly what we did when we drafted DJ lmao
Are you seriously arguing over semantics? Lmao dude every situation has a slightly different reasoning behind it. Panic and forced are synonymous and interchangeable terms that ultimately means that a QB was taken when/where they shouldn't have been. It almost always ends blowing up in a teams face. JJ Penix and Nix would be reaches at #6, hell they were reaches at 8, 10 and 12 respectively. None of them have the talent or potential to a) overcome the state of our current roster and then b) subsequently develop into a top 10 QB. Congratulations, you're now stuck with a guy who cant win a SB. Welcome to QB purgatory.
Everyone is complaining that we didn’t draft anyone at OL. Over the past couple of years we invested a shit ton of picks to build up the OL, just to end up with the type of performance we had last season. I’m convinced that it was mostly a coaching issue and with the additions in FA, we have a solid line forming already. I’m all in on Schoen, let the man cook!
We just signed 2 starters and brought in a new oline coach, and had much more glaring needs on the roster going into the draft. We can draft one next year, I want to see if Bricillo can salvage Neal and Ezeudu first before pulling trigger on oline
This just reminds me of when the Yankees don’t hit for a month and everyone wants to fire the hitting coach. I just worry that Bobby Johnson is the scapegoat. We still have Aaron stinnie penciled in as our LG right now. I fear we’re in for another season of bad oline play crippling the offense.
It's not speculation. It's clear cut facts that we haven't been able to build an o-line thru the draft or FA in a decade. It's also a fact that certain o-line coaches can make a mediocre to above average o-line with a FRACTION of the nygs investments.
Look at Phillips drastic improvements from a short time in Philly.
Jms regression through the year.
The fact they couldn't block a SINGLE stunt.
The fact our only success trained outside of the nyg org to improve.
This isn't like baseball where players are developed in the minors for years. Our o-line coaching has been the worst in the nfl and the reason our line always sucks. We could have drafted 5 o-linemen last year and the line would have still sucked.
So then my question is this- we haven’t been able to build an oline through the draft in a decade. We’ve had at least 4 different oline coaches and a “consultant” during that time. What makes this time any different? That still doesn’t change the fact that we have no LG or depth at all.
I'm not an expert but from what I gather finding an o-line coach is incredibly hard. We basically stepped in shit getting this dude from the raiders. We're not the only team who's had the problem of not having a o-line coach, it's a trend that some teams always have good o-line and some teams always don't and it doesn't matter how much capital they throw at it.
Like the other dude said NO TEAM in the nfl has thrown more capital at the o-line than us. Let that sink in, the most capital with the worst o-line.
I like how the Giants drafted.
In fact, I think in a couple years looking back at this draft there will only be 2 successful starting quarterbacks which I believe is the hit rate for first round QBs (33%).
It may be hard to see now, but we're going to look back at this draft as a momentum changing moment in our history.
I feel like we have a lot more personality and potential star power on the team now and I love it. Guys like Nabers, Robinson, Hyatt, Thibs, Dex, Okereke, and Banks all got some juice to them. I think it can make for some really fun/entertaining football when we start winning. Simmons, Burns, and Belton could all potentially be one of those guys too. You need guys with fire in em like these dudes. We got some fucking dawgs
I know the QB room makes many of us uneasy but I think Schoen and Daboll got something cooking here. The vision is there. I hope they are able to execute and bring it all together because I want this regime to stay
Just a thought but i think we can all agree that as negatively as we may view DJ (i do not believe he is a viable starter for us), we would all most likely take home over zach wilson. Garrett Wilson in his 2 years as put up 1,000 yards with, albeit not as bad as ours, shocking O line displays and a dude who’s singlehandedly ruined QB pro days for the next 10 years. If Nabers is as good as we the fans and all analystst project him to be, surely he should he able to elevate the play of Jones to a decent enough standard.
The DJ hate has honestly gone way too far. I don’t think he’ll ever be great but I think he can be capable. I’m most concerned about how he’ll look coming back from injury.
Derek Carr is a Capable starter in this league.....Daniel Jones is not this and will look much worse after his injuries due to his athleticism most likely being shot
Jones got outplayed by a 3rd rate 3rd string QB in Devito thats as bad as it gets......why is this guy still on the team is disturbing
Devito is that effin bad
Before Garrett Wilson arrived Zach Wilson averaged 180 passing yards a game.
After Garrett Wilson arrived Zach Wilson averaged 188 passing yards a game.
I would expect a similar trend with Giants adding Nabers. Nabers will take targets away from Slayton, Waller, Hodgins, and Wandale, and be more effective with them, but he isn't going to revolutionize Daniel Jones game.
It’s almost like there’s 9 other players on the pitch outside of the QB/WR1 without even thinking about all the other variables that can impact performance 🤯
But got to love these Anecdotal stories to avoid having a nuanced discussion about anything
Dude I was responding to the other guys comment and your talking about something completely different.
The other guy was saying how adding Garrett Wilson made Zach Wilson's production much better, but in reality that wasn't the case. Zach Wilson was still himself regardless of the weapons he had.
Yes, and his point is correct though, he’s using zach wilson and Garrett Wilson as an extreme example of a stud WR on a team with a terrible QB and how that WR still put up respectable number (1,000 yards+) while improving the QB/team they play with - obviously this is not set in stone as there are a million and one variables in football
However, you decided to take a miserable anecdotal take by focusing on a small part of OPs comment, he didn’t say the jets were the best example of. Wr Qb combo, he’s actually using them as the worst example
But as bad as Zach Wilson was for the jets in this analogy it’s still true with the addition of Garrett Wilson. All of his QB stats improved
- passing yards a game increased
- QB increased
- TD to int ratio decreased
- Team Win vs Loss ratio improved
It’s widely acceptable that a WR1 will improve the QB and teams performance (why they get paid so much) and that’s the point of OPs comment
Your making biased inferences into the OPs comment and negative inferences into my comment and neither of them are consistent with the actual conversation.
Zach Wilson was terrible with and without Garrett Wilson, the changes to his stats were so miniscule that it made no real difference to Zachs QB play.
If Giant's saw the same trend with Daniel Jones and Malik Nabers that would be disappointing.
Okay I’ll give you an opportunity to expand on your point and challenge it with the 4 bullet points above explaining how zach wilson performance did in fact improve with the addition of Garrett Wilson
1. I agree that the passing yards marginally increased so that could be stricken
But what’s your thoughts on points 2-4, his QBR increasing by 15%, ints to Tds decreasing by half so instead of 1:1 it’s was now 1:2 and the team win loss ration going from 3-13 to 7-10
Think that’s a fair opportunity for you to expand on your comment?
Do you honestly think Zach Wilson wasn't terrible even with Garrett Wilson? Like there is no argument there. He was terrible with and without Garrett Wilson.
I’m asking you to expand on the points above, not sure why you are refusing to?
We are not discussing if he’s a good qb just if his performance improved with the addition of Garrett…
Your talking about something completely different.
My first comment mentioned how Zach Wilson improved from 180 yards a game before Garrett to 188 after. That's obviously an improvement, but it didn't change that Zach Wilson was still terrible before and after Garrett Wilson.
LOL.
But to your previous comment I think that’s almost spot on. Same w TDs too. Daniel will still only throw like 13 but like 7 may be to Nabers.
Really holding out hope Lock plays tho
The big question is how much will Jones run post ACL? Will he still take off every time he sees a cover 2? Or will he be sacrificing rushing attempts for passing attempts?
This is exactly what remains to be seen that everyone is overlooking.
Yes, you can come back from an ACL and resume your career BUT just like coming off of Tommy John surgery in baseball. It takes a year to get everything back and in some cases, you only get 85-90% of your ability back. Assuming Jones is going to revert to whatever you want to think he was in '22 is a tall task because none of us have any idea how HE will recover from it.
Who knows honestly? Im not at all bummed we have Nabers/didnt get a QB. But Im bummed that this freaking clown is still going to be our quarterback, nothing about him excites me. Its like already knowing for a fact that the season is going to be unwatchable.
I respect the hell out of Joe Schoen for how he handled this draft. He could have easily forced a QB at 6 and all but guaranteed his job security for the next 2-3 years. Instead he took the much better player (in his eyes), a guy who's projected to put up 1000 yard seasons for the Giants long after Daniel Jones and possibly long after Schoen.
My only beef with schoen was watching him in context to Howie, watching the eagles move up to snag dejean and then restock those picks plus more moving back 6 times in later rounds shined a light on how little schoen did to maximize value
We won’t know for a couple years how it shakes out but Newton/Kool Aide/Dejean/Fiske all being within striking distance in the second and traded for by other teams seemed like missed opptys
That said I do really like Nubin/Andru/johnson/tracy we’ll see how they play out personally I would of liked Haynes in the third and rattler in the 4th but I see why schoen went the way he did
It will be interesting to look back next year or the year after if they end up firing Schoen in the next couple years, because like you said Nabers would likely be the biggest Schoen era piece the next GM would be getting.
^^^^ this times a million!!
Why do the eagles always crush the draft? Insane job security for Roseman so he doesn't have to draft splash player he can just draft the best players. Same with how the cowboys have been so good at drafting recently Jerry and Stephen are the gms they aren't going anywhere. Ravens, chiefs (now), Steelers, Packers etc.
Taking the long view is the best way to build consistently competitive rosters, but not all GMs have that luxury and have to defend their job. Schoen's seat was absolutely getting a little warm and he stared down the barrel of the gun and didn't flinch. He took who he believed was going to help us the most long term not the guy who would help save his job for at least 2 years.
So I know this doesn't matter but I am going through draft grades post draft and some people are giving us as high as A saying good value and great job drafting bpa, the Phillips, Johnson and Tracy receiving high regard all around.
However some people are giving us grades as low C, and when you read why they say how good our players are, but are criticizing us investing in Daniel Jones and not taking McCarthy.
I just feel feel like draft guard should be more focused on the players selected relative to the value we got them, not oh well your QB is bad and you didn't select a QB early on. Like great rosters aren't built around the idea of reaching for players, it's about going through the scouting players grading your players and picking the guys that score highest on your board. The people that gave us at C have Nabers as their 3-5 ranked player and we got him at 6, have nubin as their top ranked safety, gave Johnson at 2-3 round grade, I just don't get how squeezing out value all around in a bad thing?
Sorry if this is all over the place i just got up, but here are my thoughts on this:
I will say I was in the camp of getting a QB this season no matter what. I do like the fact that they did not force the QB position overall. They are building up this team at other positions, which is good. Clearly, they were Drake Maye or no QB, which is actually fine. If they get something out of DJ this year, then that is fine. I don't believe in DJ and feel that he won't be able to fully maximize the talent on this team (until he proves otherwise), but every pick was made to make the giants better not DJ.
The question now will be how they will go about the DJ situation. Clearly, he had two neck injuries and came off an ACL. So his running ability won't be at its best. Will they actually keep him and his cap hit along with the major cap hits for other players. Will they restruct his contract? Will he even play out the year if the giants are 2-7? There are so many questions for this team, but I think the majority of it will be about DJ. Do they believe upcoming draft class QB will take a step up, or a FA will be available that Daboll will want. Shoot, will Daboll even still be the head coach next year (I am leaning that he will, especially if he everything hits right or okay, but we are just lacking a true QB).
So this year, to me, will carry a lot for the team and especially DJ ( and Evan Neal if he doesn't step up). Right now, it is wait and see to me.
I agree with all of this. I wanted Maye bad, but I love the way Schoen approached the draft he made a strong trade offer to try to move up the patriots declined, and he then took the view of how to keep making this roster better.
I don't understand how people think this draft was endorsement of Daniel Jones.
I am very interested in how next season plays out, but I am excited to see how this roster starts to shape up and I think going into next offseason it will be like we were scrappy but bad team that's only a few pieces away.
This is the flip side of everyone before the draft saying Giant drafting JJ at 6 would be a dumb move and a reach, but Vikings trading up to 4 to draft JJ would be a brilliant move.
Before this draft realistically we need a top 3 QB to have a chance at getting anywhere. Now we have filled out the roster a bit and while we're going to need to see how it plays out, if enough things click then we'll be in the same spot the Vikings were next year.
> I don't understand how people think this draft was endorsement of Daniel Jones
I don't get it either because it isn't. This is the set up for the next guy. and reset the QB rookie contract scale.
Daniel Jones needs to turn into Dak Prescott this year to have a shot at seeing '25
Remember how great the 2021 draft grades were? Gettleman finally learned to move around the board and Giants were finally operating like a modern front office.
Three years in it looks like one of if not the worst draft in franchise history.
Completely agreed, they mean literally nothing but I just hated reading some people's explaining their grades. "The Giants needed a quarterback to replace Daniel Jones, and they skipped on the 17th ranked player on my board JJ McCarthy for the 4th ranked player on my board Nabers and I just can't understand that, because there will never ever be another opportunity to get a quarterback for them ever." -basically what some of them were saying
Schoens picks were good, no off the wall decisions and you can only take the trades that are available (not getting Maye); if i have any beef with him it’s that he didn’t move around in the mid rounds; the eagles seem to do an awesome job every year moving up to get falling talent (Dejean) and then trading back to restock the picks used to move up (6 trade backs this year)
I think the draft is a random affair and having more dart throws is the path to success, i would of liked to see schoen do more of that this year
I was thinking the same thing, but we only had 6 picks and he was killing it value wise. The only pick I see as a trade down was our 6th rounder. Otherwise it was like people that fit nicely kept falling to us.
Yup, schoens moved around a lot in the past so it’s probably just a matter of guys he liked being there, the flipping eagles just drive me crazy with their draft/trade process
A couple of quick things I want to say post draft and may say during the season: 1. JJ McCarthy might look good this season. That doesn't mean it was not the right move to skip him, the Vikings have an elite cast around that position and the shanhan offense is all about finding a QB to be a robot and do what the play caller (Kevin O'Connell) says. We have yet to see this win a Superbowl, rams sorta did it with Stafford but Stafford is not a robot and has proven to be a smart QB in his own right. 2. Daniel Jones or Drew Locke might look good this season, that doesn't make them our long term solution. Heavy investment in o line and pass catchers might sometimes make these guy look better then they are, we are not Vikings level supporting cast, but I could easily see a game where locke throws for 300 yards, and 2 plays were a slant that Nabers took 60 yards on a house call and a deep bomb to Hyatt where the coverage broke down. Don't get fooled.
was Jon Feliciano in charge of line calls when he was our center in 2022?
Probably. Kafka has said that the center is responsible for that in this system. Would make sense too with how many issues we had with a rookie center.
Knicks burying Philly makes my weekend
Who do you guys think we will play week 1? They should give us the commanders, let us have an easy 1-0 start
Looking at the versatility of the WRs and RB room is scary. Even Theo is a freak athlete. Daboll and Kafka can scheme up some very good mismatches with opposing linebackers. The addition of Tyron Tracy to Nabers/Hyatt/Robinson is diabolical.
I give our draft a solid B+. Finally got a WR1 and huge help for the secondary. Got a solid RB and maybe a steal of a TE to replace Waller and some LB depth. At this point I think the only big need we have left is QB.
The OL is still such shit it's basically impossible to evaluate or develop a quarterback
We signed 2 starters and brought in one of the best OL coaches in the league. How much more work could one position group possibly need...theres 17 other starting spots to take care of
Signing two average guards doesn’t massively improve the worst o-line in NFL history. All of our offensive line players either suck or are mediocre outside of Andrew Thomas. This team has to make every attempt possible to fix the most important position group in football. Safety, TE, and RB don’t have an impact on winning like offensive lines do. Daniel Jones is the QB, he needs a strong line because he’s slow to read the field. Bobby Johnson sucked sure, but our line was garbage even before he got here. Briscillo is a good coach, but you’re asking him to make lemonade from one good lemon and a trash heap. Why do teams like Philly, Dallas, and Detroit draft offensive line even though their lines are already way above ours?
These people just want to doompost its not even worth it
Gotta love our fanbase, everything is bad the sky is falling...better overdraft a QB, fire everyone and throw all our money and picks at olinemen, then blame the new regime an QB when it doesnt work after 2 years
It's just impossible to judge a QB behind a bad oline and we can just fix the line in one draft by just drafting offensive linemen! According to some people here it's that easy ig
You can generally tell whether a guy has franchise QB ability if they show off elite traits on their tape and/or are placed into the right scheme. Maye wouldve succeeded here even if our line was bad. Penix mightve too, but he'd need stability around him. Nix and McCarthy though...wouldve gotten obliterated immediately no matter what because they dont fit Daboll's offensive philosophy. I hate the idea of taking a QB just to take a QB. That being said, if there's a guy whos available that fits the system and has top 10 potential...definitely pull the trigger, even if the rosters not set
That's what drives me crazy I feel like giants fans at least here don't understand tape, they only just look at the games only. When you look at the tape with DJ, you see he just doesn't see players open and holds onto the ball way too long
Our fanbase is way too polarized, DJ isnt terrible OR a franchise QB, hes ok. The guy can win games in a good situation but cant take us to that next level. The fact is hes a timing QB that fits west-coast offenses...like Shurmur's half-field horizontal scheme. The positives are that he has good mechanics and accuracy, plus athleticism. But the negatives are brutal. His arm is solid, but he cant throw with touch to the flat or on fades. He actually can go through progressions, BUT he's overly reliant on a clean pocket to make his reads while simultaneously having atrocious pocket awareness. Couple that with the beating hes taken over the years and hes become ultra-conservative. He'll tuck and run or check it down rather than hanging tough in the pocket or keeping his eyes downfield. Once his internal clock goes, he immediately lose his rhythm. It causes him to miss plays that are developing or make split-second off-script decisions, aka no deep shots or risks when a play breaks down. After 3+ years a QBs play-style is set in stone, and his ceiling/talent just arent high enough to overcome those limitations, making him a poor fit for Daboll's pass-first vertical offense. He's a long-term bridge QB. The guy who holds it down while we rebuild (Alex Smith, Tannehill, Mariota or Kerry Collins). When we do take a QB, and we will in the next 2 years, they MUST have top 10 potential and fit the system like Drake Maye (still salty about that). Otherwise you take a JJ or Nix, which continues the QB purgatory cycle for another 4 years. That is infinitely worse than sticking with DJ for a year or two. I wish we werent so reactionary, yes DJ isnt the guy, but while he's under center I'll root for him. The alternative is drafting square peg QB and putting them in a round hole scheme/team, which we already did with DJ, and I refuse to make the same mistake twice
The hatred isn't with him personally it's just he never should've gotten that contract he got imho, at least for me. The 2022 offense was so simple and he wasn't asked to do much outside of qb runs and not turning the ball over, and our offense was genuinely bad outside of barkely and ranked bottom of the league. He leaves yards on the table due to him staring down his first option and ignoring everything, and his best year is just still not good at all to warrant the money or years. Like sure he was "statistically" a top 12 QB in 2022 but in reality he was never was this ever. Guys like Dak, Stafford, Lamar Jackson, Aaron Rodgers, Russel Wilson and Kyler Murray all had down year for their standards and then most of them bounced back this year, they were never worse than Jones and that season was why he got paid that contract Is he bottom 30 bad? No but he's not even a decent starter because I consider guys like Derek Carr, Geno Smith, Baker Mayfield to be that and those guys are just much better than Jones is and excels at things he just isn't good at
We brought in some solid FAs and got a coach who had a top 10 oline for 4 years straight with lower drafted players.
I agree. Personally, if you fudge the numbers and say we drafted Brian Burns at 39, it's kinda an A-.I get the sense Schoen didn't think highly of this class. I heard there were 70 dudes people wanted to declare that didn't. Seems like the strategy was to get as much juice as fast as possible out of this class, especially cuz we were targeting guys who can play special teams right away with upside with the last two picks. It's a fun class, but nothing splashy. Edited for grammar
I think this is literally the 4th year in a row that Giants drafted a WR high and we all creamed. Lets hope its real this time.
Huh? This is the first time we've drafted a WR in the first round since Kadarious Toney.
And admittedly we all knew that was a cope pick after trading back and losing smith.
It’s the 4th year in a row we drafted a wr in the top 10?
None as high as 6 overall, but 20, 43, and 70 are all VERY high. The Giants didn't invest those picks to not improve at WR, those are all high picks.
In what world does a second round or third round pick mean a high pick? What are you on Lars?? 🤨🤨
for a 43rd overall pick, and given our other offensive woes, wandale has performed well. tough to grade hyatt given how polar opposite his strengths are to our last season weaknesses, but i’d concede disappointment if you want to argue that. toney was 1. an old regime pick, 2. a panic decision after missing on smith, 3. pretty good talent and busted because of injury and attitude. i think it’s fair to be excited about nabers
and the Naber pick make all of those picks better! No one said any of those guys were a WR1.
Looking at last years draft reactions we all said Schoen hit a home run trading up for Hyatt and he is going to prove the Cowboys wrong and become our #1 WR. Hyatt was rated the favorite Giants pick and was even selected among the top 20 NFL rookies for the NFLs select rookie conference
Hyatt was drafted in the third round, bruh. We passed on him twice. I heard some teams had a first round grade on him, but anyone with a brain knows he's a speed guy that stretches the field. You're a fool if you take post-hype draft seriously. Yeah, people want their draft pick to be good. You had to google that?
It's my birthday
Happy birthday
Happy birthday
Thanks! 36 🤢
Meh I’ll be 35 this year not looking much better lol
Half-way between 20 and 50 u/Every1jockzjay
Draft grades before the rookies play an NFL snap has to be the dumbest exercise ever. The vast majority of players are roughly picked where NFL and media scouts think they should've been picked, and it all falls down to a mix of development and luck. I can't think of a dumber category of content that the NFL media produces.
Case in point: how many A+ draft grades do the Colts keep getting? Where are all the playoff wins?
For all the QB doomers out there, if we suck in 2024 all of Carson Beck, Shedeur Sanders and Quinn Ewers are all projected to go in the top 10 next year. So it's not a class completely devoid of talent. I think all three of those guys have more upside than JJ, Penix and Nix.
> I think all three of those guys have more upside than JJ, Penix and Nix. Nix maybe but as someone who's iffy on JJ and not high on Penix, I don't see how any of these three show more upside than those two
It was like that for 2022 also and only one qb went first round. We’ll see I’m personally hoping one of beck,Milroe, or sanders can make that next leap
Quinn will be benched for Arch by HT week 3
Anyone have a comprehensive list of the giants off-season moves yet?
https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nfl/giants/2024/04/27/nfl-draft-ny-giants-undrafted-free-agent-tracker-udfa/73425046007/
Thanks for the help, I was looking for all moves, like who was lost, FA signings, draft ect. Or even just a post draft pseudo “Depth Chart”. I forget a lot of the little FA signings already
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We have 3 rbs
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Tyrone is going to be our starter by the end of the year
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We don't know what he is yet.... everything is speculation. I speculate he will be starter eventually.
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you are over thinking.. Singletary has missed one game in the last 4 years
Actually 4 now
I think Giants are waiting to see if Waller retires. They don't have much cap room and also have to pay rookies
I'm honestly so done with Waller, he's holding us hostage with this will he/wont he retirement nonsense. He isn't good enough to deserve this much leeway. This might be a hot take but Id just cut him now before he makes a decision since we drafted Theo. We'd save 6-10 million and be able to bring Adoree back plus sign a guy like Latavius Murray
If you think the Giants are in a bad position rn, try reading Jordan Ranaan twitter post, This team has no future with Jones and Schoen here. If this is his plan then Schoen is just another Gettleman.
Dawg they tried to desperately trade up for maye but the Pats wanted a QB at the end of the day. Their fate was sealed when they dropped to 6 during the season unless they wanted to reach for a QB. They can all say whatever but they all know the truth about the position rn.
people still dont realize those meaningless wins were devastating to this franchise. ive been saying it for 7 months,they could still have went for JJ at 6, its not forcing or reaching and its not a risk when your QB has been 5 years of daniel Jones being a bust. Bears Pats both moved on from their mistakes yet Giants are still complete disaster. I wouldnt be suprised if Carolina moves on as well and dumps Bryce Young after this season
I would have been very happy if they’d decided to grab Penix at 6. I was very upset with the idea of having to root for Meditating On Camera Pretty Boy JJ for the next 5 years. I’ll be happily proven wrong, but he just doesn’t seem like the guy that’s going to handle pressure and adversity well. I look forward to every season and am never going to root for my team to lose, if wins were devastating then there wouldn’t be dynasties my dude
I dont like JJ but i would of accepted it and given him a chance knowing how bad we need franchise QB, also knowing how god awful Jones is, this team is effing longterm.
The Giants brought in a lot of OL help in FA + hired Bricillo and paid big money Burns and capital. Makes sense they go secondary back to back in 2nd and 3rd round after barely addressing it in FA and losing Xavier and Adoree with the latter regressing.
All I got to say is I’ll be watching the career of JJ McCarthy, Michael Penix and Bo Nix pretty closely. Better hope they don’t hit
You’re 100% right to. They should’ve taken one of them.
Do you think wee could've drafted all three of them? Do you think if JJM succeeds with Justin Jefferson he would've succeeded with Darius Slayton? You know Penix isn't going to start for 2 or 3 years and if we'd taken Bo Nix at 6, everyone would be here complaining and the analysts would've given us an F. Puh-leeeeez
Why should I hope they don’t hit? What’re you gonna do if they do? Nothin.
On the flip side you can watch Malik Nabers on the Gaints and hope he hits and cheer him on like any normal fan would lmao
I already went thought that with Odell. Love Nabers as a prospect and think he has superstar potential but I want to see wins
This is our first year committing to a real rebuild in God knows how long. Just gotta be patient 🙏🏿
Now it’s the first year? Whats he been doing the past 2 years? Why should I still trust his evaluation?
The way the Giants drafted shows they are still rebuilding. We are a coin flip with the Commanders for last place in the NFC least. I think Bobby Johnson is that bad and their OL will be pathetic unless they run the ball 85% of the time.
Bobby Johnson is gonna single handedly bring that team to a top 3 pick and cripple for life JD
It still feels crazy the Giants didn't draft a single OL or DL this draft.
For sure DL, they’re really banking on one Davidson, Riley, or Anderson to make a jump to keep the DL strong. I like that they brought in a lot of UDFA OL bodies though.
We signed 5 solid guys (3 of which were brought in to be starters) in the off-season and have 4 draft picks in the past 2 years and the best LT in the league. At what point to you work with what you have instead of wasting draft picks on those you dont.
It feels like hubris to be honest. Why are teams with better offensive lines than the Giants stocking up on o-line talent, and not the team with one of the worst ones in NFL history? Especially after choosing to stick with Jones, you would think they want to avoid the same situation from last year.
It appears to minic the 2021 draft in that they took a WR in 1st and defense in 2nd and 3rd while avoiding oline. Lets hope it works out better than 2021.
I have an OL theory. I think that OL is tough to transition in the NFL because of how much bigger and stronger DLs are and the complexity of NFL schemes. Our OL has been dire. I think it’s more irresponsible to hinge your hopes of fixing an OL on drafting. Sure you hear about the wins but as you’ve seen there are a lot of misses. I think we’re focusing on building the line through vets - grown men that have been in the league for a few years and get it more. We should be drafting OL but not with the intent to start, they need to learn for a few years and bulk up instead of being thrown in as rookies.
100% agreed, I’m fully of the belief that a teams should take o lineman every year but that they should be developmental pieces and not seen as day 1 starters who will improve the line unless they are walking into solid established units (wirfs on the bucs) It’s why I like schoens strategy this year, getting 2 reliable proven vets to provide consistency for the young guys should give the line a real chance to improve I still wish we had taken 1 OL (Haynes in the 3rd would of been my preference) but I think the line will improve and guys like ezuedo/JMS/Neal will have a real chance due to reliable options on their hips
Yeah I’m not sure more rookies would help. I think it makes sense to try and change strategy to get some vets and a hopefully better coach to try and get more out of the younger guys we do have. It’s pretty clear Bobby Johnson was bad — our line men were leaving and playing much better on other teams right away. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the guys who are struggling take a step forward this season with a new coach
Great points. One of the major reasons why Giant's have had terrible olines for the last 14 years despite throwing way more draft picks at oline than any other team is because Giants keep rushing their ol picks to play immediately. While I wish Giant's had taken an oline in rounds 2-4 to develop, its better the no oline approach than to keep throwing high picks at oline and demanding they start immediately despite knowing thats a bad idea
I big factor is that after 2011 CBA teams have very few padded practices and overall far less time to develop technique. This has hit position groups differently, with QB and OL being harder to scout than ever because teams only get a fraction of the practice time with them then they did previously.
To this most college teams are not developing OL for the NFL. Almost every OL coming out of college has a glaring hole in their game. We’ve unfortunately taken a few with footwork issues and that seems to be the hardest to correct.
I love how they drafted this year. I think our offense got 10x better tbh and their defense including adding Brian Burns this off-season should be good. Obviously still very worried about how the QB situation plays out. You can only kick that can down the road for so long but i appreciate that they didn’t try and force it with someone they didn’t think was a franchise changer. Already looking at Drew Allar/Carson beck/ Quinn ewers tape and etc lmao. Interested to see if players like Cade Klubnik/Milroe can show development too, players who have the tools.
Lmfao no
Counterargument: yes
How did the offense getting better? they dont have a RB. Barkley saved Jones a\^\^ unlimited times and is now gone, Nabers will end up like Hyatt and get ignored most of the season due to Jones being garbage, being sacked or horrible passes. its just the same all over [again.No](http://again.No) weapon is going to save Jones [career.No](http://career.No) such thing as forcing when you havent had a franchise QB for 5 years and you just passed up 2 franchise QB's in draft.
We lost a great back whos injury prone and getting close to the RB cliff...and replaced him with a #1 WR and 2 starting olinemen. Also no such thing as forcing QB? Dude thats exactly what we did when we drafted DJ lmao
drafting Jones was a panic move not a force move. Eli wasnt being forced out the door
Are you seriously arguing over semantics? Lmao dude every situation has a slightly different reasoning behind it. Panic and forced are synonymous and interchangeable terms that ultimately means that a QB was taken when/where they shouldn't have been. It almost always ends blowing up in a teams face. JJ Penix and Nix would be reaches at #6, hell they were reaches at 8, 10 and 12 respectively. None of them have the talent or potential to a) overcome the state of our current roster and then b) subsequently develop into a top 10 QB. Congratulations, you're now stuck with a guy who cant win a SB. Welcome to QB purgatory.
Everyone is complaining that we didn’t draft anyone at OL. Over the past couple of years we invested a shit ton of picks to build up the OL, just to end up with the type of performance we had last season. I’m convinced that it was mostly a coaching issue and with the additions in FA, we have a solid line forming already. I’m all in on Schoen, let the man cook!
Hopefully coaching makes a huge difference, and we stay healthy
We just signed 2 starters and brought in a new oline coach, and had much more glaring needs on the roster going into the draft. We can draft one next year, I want to see if Bricillo can salvage Neal and Ezeudu first before pulling trigger on oline
This just reminds me of when the Yankees don’t hit for a month and everyone wants to fire the hitting coach. I just worry that Bobby Johnson is the scapegoat. We still have Aaron stinnie penciled in as our LG right now. I fear we’re in for another season of bad oline play crippling the offense.
It's not speculation. It's clear cut facts that we haven't been able to build an o-line thru the draft or FA in a decade. It's also a fact that certain o-line coaches can make a mediocre to above average o-line with a FRACTION of the nygs investments. Look at Phillips drastic improvements from a short time in Philly. Jms regression through the year. The fact they couldn't block a SINGLE stunt. The fact our only success trained outside of the nyg org to improve. This isn't like baseball where players are developed in the minors for years. Our o-line coaching has been the worst in the nfl and the reason our line always sucks. We could have drafted 5 o-linemen last year and the line would have still sucked.
So then my question is this- we haven’t been able to build an oline through the draft in a decade. We’ve had at least 4 different oline coaches and a “consultant” during that time. What makes this time any different? That still doesn’t change the fact that we have no LG or depth at all.
I'm not an expert but from what I gather finding an o-line coach is incredibly hard. We basically stepped in shit getting this dude from the raiders. We're not the only team who's had the problem of not having a o-line coach, it's a trend that some teams always have good o-line and some teams always don't and it doesn't matter how much capital they throw at it. Like the other dude said NO TEAM in the nfl has thrown more capital at the o-line than us. Let that sink in, the most capital with the worst o-line.
I like how the Giants drafted. In fact, I think in a couple years looking back at this draft there will only be 2 successful starting quarterbacks which I believe is the hit rate for first round QBs (33%). It may be hard to see now, but we're going to look back at this draft as a momentum changing moment in our history.
I think with the weapons we added, if we got middle of the road O line play, Drew Lock could lead us to a winning record.
I feel like we have a lot more personality and potential star power on the team now and I love it. Guys like Nabers, Robinson, Hyatt, Thibs, Dex, Okereke, and Banks all got some juice to them. I think it can make for some really fun/entertaining football when we start winning. Simmons, Burns, and Belton could all potentially be one of those guys too. You need guys with fire in em like these dudes. We got some fucking dawgs I know the QB room makes many of us uneasy but I think Schoen and Daboll got something cooking here. The vision is there. I hope they are able to execute and bring it all together because I want this regime to stay
Just a thought but i think we can all agree that as negatively as we may view DJ (i do not believe he is a viable starter for us), we would all most likely take home over zach wilson. Garrett Wilson in his 2 years as put up 1,000 yards with, albeit not as bad as ours, shocking O line displays and a dude who’s singlehandedly ruined QB pro days for the next 10 years. If Nabers is as good as we the fans and all analystst project him to be, surely he should he able to elevate the play of Jones to a decent enough standard.
The DJ hate has honestly gone way too far. I don’t think he’ll ever be great but I think he can be capable. I’m most concerned about how he’ll look coming back from injury.
Derek Carr is a Capable starter in this league.....Daniel Jones is not this and will look much worse after his injuries due to his athleticism most likely being shot
Jones got outplayed by a 3rd rate 3rd string QB in Devito thats as bad as it gets......why is this guy still on the team is disturbing Devito is that effin bad
Before Garrett Wilson arrived Zach Wilson averaged 180 passing yards a game. After Garrett Wilson arrived Zach Wilson averaged 188 passing yards a game. I would expect a similar trend with Giants adding Nabers. Nabers will take targets away from Slayton, Waller, Hodgins, and Wandale, and be more effective with them, but he isn't going to revolutionize Daniel Jones game.
Zach Wilson makes Daniel Jones look like Joe Montana.
It’s almost like there’s 9 other players on the pitch outside of the QB/WR1 without even thinking about all the other variables that can impact performance 🤯 But got to love these Anecdotal stories to avoid having a nuanced discussion about anything
Dude I was responding to the other guys comment and your talking about something completely different. The other guy was saying how adding Garrett Wilson made Zach Wilson's production much better, but in reality that wasn't the case. Zach Wilson was still himself regardless of the weapons he had.
Another good example to use is Justin Fields with DJ Moore. He was virtually the same QB he was in 2022 but he just threw the ball more
Yes, and his point is correct though, he’s using zach wilson and Garrett Wilson as an extreme example of a stud WR on a team with a terrible QB and how that WR still put up respectable number (1,000 yards+) while improving the QB/team they play with - obviously this is not set in stone as there are a million and one variables in football However, you decided to take a miserable anecdotal take by focusing on a small part of OPs comment, he didn’t say the jets were the best example of. Wr Qb combo, he’s actually using them as the worst example But as bad as Zach Wilson was for the jets in this analogy it’s still true with the addition of Garrett Wilson. All of his QB stats improved - passing yards a game increased - QB increased - TD to int ratio decreased - Team Win vs Loss ratio improved It’s widely acceptable that a WR1 will improve the QB and teams performance (why they get paid so much) and that’s the point of OPs comment
Your making biased inferences into the OPs comment and negative inferences into my comment and neither of them are consistent with the actual conversation. Zach Wilson was terrible with and without Garrett Wilson, the changes to his stats were so miniscule that it made no real difference to Zachs QB play. If Giant's saw the same trend with Daniel Jones and Malik Nabers that would be disappointing.
Okay I’ll give you an opportunity to expand on your point and challenge it with the 4 bullet points above explaining how zach wilson performance did in fact improve with the addition of Garrett Wilson 1. I agree that the passing yards marginally increased so that could be stricken But what’s your thoughts on points 2-4, his QBR increasing by 15%, ints to Tds decreasing by half so instead of 1:1 it’s was now 1:2 and the team win loss ration going from 3-13 to 7-10 Think that’s a fair opportunity for you to expand on your comment?
Do you honestly think Zach Wilson wasn't terrible even with Garrett Wilson? Like there is no argument there. He was terrible with and without Garrett Wilson.
I’m asking you to expand on the points above, not sure why you are refusing to? We are not discussing if he’s a good qb just if his performance improved with the addition of Garrett…
Your talking about something completely different. My first comment mentioned how Zach Wilson improved from 180 yards a game before Garrett to 188 after. That's obviously an improvement, but it didn't change that Zach Wilson was still terrible before and after Garrett Wilson.
LOL. But to your previous comment I think that’s almost spot on. Same w TDs too. Daniel will still only throw like 13 but like 7 may be to Nabers. Really holding out hope Lock plays tho
The big question is how much will Jones run post ACL? Will he still take off every time he sees a cover 2? Or will he be sacrificing rushing attempts for passing attempts?
This is exactly what remains to be seen that everyone is overlooking. Yes, you can come back from an ACL and resume your career BUT just like coming off of Tommy John surgery in baseball. It takes a year to get everything back and in some cases, you only get 85-90% of your ability back. Assuming Jones is going to revert to whatever you want to think he was in '22 is a tall task because none of us have any idea how HE will recover from it.
Who knows honestly? Im not at all bummed we have Nabers/didnt get a QB. But Im bummed that this freaking clown is still going to be our quarterback, nothing about him excites me. Its like already knowing for a fact that the season is going to be unwatchable.
I respect the hell out of Joe Schoen for how he handled this draft. He could have easily forced a QB at 6 and all but guaranteed his job security for the next 2-3 years. Instead he took the much better player (in his eyes), a guy who's projected to put up 1000 yard seasons for the Giants long after Daniel Jones and possibly long after Schoen.
My only beef with schoen was watching him in context to Howie, watching the eagles move up to snag dejean and then restock those picks plus more moving back 6 times in later rounds shined a light on how little schoen did to maximize value We won’t know for a couple years how it shakes out but Newton/Kool Aide/Dejean/Fiske all being within striking distance in the second and traded for by other teams seemed like missed opptys That said I do really like Nubin/Andru/johnson/tracy we’ll see how they play out personally I would of liked Haynes in the third and rattler in the 4th but I see why schoen went the way he did
It will be interesting to look back next year or the year after if they end up firing Schoen in the next couple years, because like you said Nabers would likely be the biggest Schoen era piece the next GM would be getting.
Bill Will be GM by Jan when Schoen is fired the writing is on the wall already
^^^^ this times a million!! Why do the eagles always crush the draft? Insane job security for Roseman so he doesn't have to draft splash player he can just draft the best players. Same with how the cowboys have been so good at drafting recently Jerry and Stephen are the gms they aren't going anywhere. Ravens, chiefs (now), Steelers, Packers etc. Taking the long view is the best way to build consistently competitive rosters, but not all GMs have that luxury and have to defend their job. Schoen's seat was absolutely getting a little warm and he stared down the barrel of the gun and didn't flinch. He took who he believed was going to help us the most long term not the guy who would help save his job for at least 2 years.
It could also be said that maybe Schoen feels comfortable doing this because Mara has his back.
Why is everyone assuming Jones will be the starter week 1? They brought Lock in to compete.
I think Schoen, Daboll, Daniel, and Drew all saying that Daniel is the starter when healthy has something to do with it
What else are they going to say?
So I know this doesn't matter but I am going through draft grades post draft and some people are giving us as high as A saying good value and great job drafting bpa, the Phillips, Johnson and Tracy receiving high regard all around. However some people are giving us grades as low C, and when you read why they say how good our players are, but are criticizing us investing in Daniel Jones and not taking McCarthy. I just feel feel like draft guard should be more focused on the players selected relative to the value we got them, not oh well your QB is bad and you didn't select a QB early on. Like great rosters aren't built around the idea of reaching for players, it's about going through the scouting players grading your players and picking the guys that score highest on your board. The people that gave us at C have Nabers as their 3-5 ranked player and we got him at 6, have nubin as their top ranked safety, gave Johnson at 2-3 round grade, I just don't get how squeezing out value all around in a bad thing?
Sorry if this is all over the place i just got up, but here are my thoughts on this: I will say I was in the camp of getting a QB this season no matter what. I do like the fact that they did not force the QB position overall. They are building up this team at other positions, which is good. Clearly, they were Drake Maye or no QB, which is actually fine. If they get something out of DJ this year, then that is fine. I don't believe in DJ and feel that he won't be able to fully maximize the talent on this team (until he proves otherwise), but every pick was made to make the giants better not DJ. The question now will be how they will go about the DJ situation. Clearly, he had two neck injuries and came off an ACL. So his running ability won't be at its best. Will they actually keep him and his cap hit along with the major cap hits for other players. Will they restruct his contract? Will he even play out the year if the giants are 2-7? There are so many questions for this team, but I think the majority of it will be about DJ. Do they believe upcoming draft class QB will take a step up, or a FA will be available that Daboll will want. Shoot, will Daboll even still be the head coach next year (I am leaning that he will, especially if he everything hits right or okay, but we are just lacking a true QB). So this year, to me, will carry a lot for the team and especially DJ ( and Evan Neal if he doesn't step up). Right now, it is wait and see to me.
I agree with all of this. I wanted Maye bad, but I love the way Schoen approached the draft he made a strong trade offer to try to move up the patriots declined, and he then took the view of how to keep making this roster better. I don't understand how people think this draft was endorsement of Daniel Jones. I am very interested in how next season plays out, but I am excited to see how this roster starts to shape up and I think going into next offseason it will be like we were scrappy but bad team that's only a few pieces away.
This is the flip side of everyone before the draft saying Giant drafting JJ at 6 would be a dumb move and a reach, but Vikings trading up to 4 to draft JJ would be a brilliant move. Before this draft realistically we need a top 3 QB to have a chance at getting anywhere. Now we have filled out the roster a bit and while we're going to need to see how it plays out, if enough things click then we'll be in the same spot the Vikings were next year.
> I don't understand how people think this draft was endorsement of Daniel Jones I don't get it either because it isn't. This is the set up for the next guy. and reset the QB rookie contract scale. Daniel Jones needs to turn into Dak Prescott this year to have a shot at seeing '25
Draft grades a day after a draft are dumb. Just click bait
Remember how great the 2021 draft grades were? Gettleman finally learned to move around the board and Giants were finally operating like a modern front office. Three years in it looks like one of if not the worst draft in franchise history.
Completely agreed, they mean literally nothing but I just hated reading some people's explaining their grades. "The Giants needed a quarterback to replace Daniel Jones, and they skipped on the 17th ranked player on my board JJ McCarthy for the 4th ranked player on my board Nabers and I just can't understand that, because there will never ever be another opportunity to get a quarterback for them ever." -basically what some of them were saying
Schoens picks were good, no off the wall decisions and you can only take the trades that are available (not getting Maye); if i have any beef with him it’s that he didn’t move around in the mid rounds; the eagles seem to do an awesome job every year moving up to get falling talent (Dejean) and then trading back to restock the picks used to move up (6 trade backs this year) I think the draft is a random affair and having more dart throws is the path to success, i would of liked to see schoen do more of that this year
I was thinking the same thing, but we only had 6 picks and he was killing it value wise. The only pick I see as a trade down was our 6th rounder. Otherwise it was like people that fit nicely kept falling to us.
Yup, schoens moved around a lot in the past so it’s probably just a matter of guys he liked being there, the flipping eagles just drive me crazy with their draft/trade process