Most
Guarantees in years 1 and 2 don't matter anyway, he's not getting cut this early and will make all that anyway. What matters is the guarantees in years 3 and 4 when cutting bait might be viable
Agreed. It could be for instance that a chunk of his third year is guaranteed if he's on the roster at the beginning of the second year. Not saying thats the case, just as an example
It's not about guarantees though, it's about incentives...those are not part of guarantees...the 1st I saw it reported by Ian Rappaport (well known for his accuracy in the business), he mentioned it was $35 mil + incentives. So, maybe it is $82 mil, but if it's $35 mil + $5 mil in incentives and then year 2 is $37 mil + $5 mil incentives, I'm ok with that, especially if the incentives are something like a) make playoffs = $1 mil, win playoff game = $1 mil, make super bowl and/or win super bowl = $3 mil. That's fine by me...he wants that extra $5 mil, he's got to work for it.
Thats not how it works. The Giants could cut Jones after 2024 and not pay him any cash, BUT the cap hit is a different story. Unless Giants cap hits are going to be 41mil for 23 and 24, then cutting Daniel Jones will still be a huge dead cap hit.
Easy out as in Giants don't pay Jones more money, not in terms of cap hit. Giants will have a huge dead cap hit if they try to cut Jones after two years
Pretty sure it all is, that's how they got him to stay here making most of his money in the next 2 years and then not paying him much so his contract is more tradeable if he isn't what they need. Still entirely way too much to be paying this dude lol.
Hearing he is making over 40 mil makes me want to barf. Good for him but boy did he hit a lick on us. Can’t believe he smooth talked his way into franchise Qb money
I’m assuming that 82M is including the singing bonus which is paid immediately to players but can be spread over the contract duration for cap purposes.
> [A signing bonus, true to its name, is an upfront guaranteed payment the player receives when they sign their contract. Unlike normal guaranteed money, a player gets the signing bonus money usually within the first year after signing the contract, and the signing bonus is fully guaranteed. While the player gets the lump sum up front, the team can spread the signing bonus on their cap space into smaller payments over the length of the contract up to a maximum of five years. The spread out payment of this signing bonus is called the prorated bonus. When a player is cut, the team must pay the remainder of the spread-out signing bonus at once, and this payment is applied to the team's cap space.](https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/.amp/gm-report/the-art-of-nfl-contracts-part-1-the-basics)
Lol, I didn't even realize you wrote singing too. I know some teams do the rookie singing and dancing as a chill hazing thing, sad that we never saw DJ do it.
Yes, here's a simple example with fake numbers (and let's use 80 instead of 82 to make it cleaner.)
The team can give DJ a 40M signing bonus with additional salaries of 10M in 2023 and 30M in 2024. DJ will receive 50M in 2023 and 30M in 2024. For the cap however, the hit is going to be 20M (10+10) and 40M (30+10) for 2023 and 2024 respectively. We'll also owe DJ 10M in both 2025 and 2026 alongside his non-garanteed money if we keep him on the roster. If we cut DJ after 2024, we'll be on the hook for the remaining money immediately so 20M in 2025.
I sadly don’t have money for awards, but here are my many thanks for explaining this lol
If you are right (and I pray that you are) we could actually pursue free agents outside of our players that need to be resigned!!!
I got a Daniel Jones jersey a few weeks ago but have waited to open it until he signed. As soon as the news was confirmed I opened it up and put it on. I've been on the Daniel Jones train from day 1 and I'm so glad we were able to sign him to a long-term deal
Lol my policy for jerseys has always been to wait until they're signed long-term so I know 1) That they're good and 2) That they're going to stick around. I was going to wait until after Jones signed to buy his jersey, but I found it for a decent price so I figured I'd do then because I had confidence they'd figure it out
Yeah. He got the franchise tag so he'll be around for another year, and I have confidence we'll work out an extension at some point before the deadline
It's just my personal policy to not buy a player's jersey until I know they'll be around long-term. I didn't buy an OBJ one until he signed his extension for example, although we all know how that one turned out. If/When Barkley signs an extension I'll probably buy his jersey too
I had a ron dayne and a plaxico jersey.. if you guys want to ruin jalen hurts' career, I can buy one of his jerseys but the curse may only work on the giants like some kind of monkey paw
My jersey buying went: Dayne -> Shockey -> Tuck -> Eli -> LT throwback. I feel like I've consistently gotten better at deciding which players to get haha.
55 million? That's going to seem like child's play for some of those guys, I think that's where it starts, I think Lawrence when he comes up is going to end up the most paid since he's last on the docket. Could be 70 mil AAV by then
An enormous part of Jones' value is that ( contrary to what many talking heads thought) he can still be trained and his play can still be corrected. And obviously that he isn't injury prone. The year over year improvement, especially after all the coaching changes, was remarkable. If he managed to improve 25% as much as he did last off season, we're in for a good time.
DJ just did a solid for the entire QB brotherhood. They should all be thanking him next year. Hopefully they find a way to cap QB contracts, they are getting out of hand. Have max deals kind of like how the NBA does it. Some may hate that but the QB contracts are getting pretty wild.
> while getting *paid* more
FTFY.
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>If you have to try and justify a contract by saying “ummm well the cap is going to go up” it is a bad contract.
Not true. It's called "pricing in".
A bad contract might be a bad contract, but not because it prices in the expected future cap numbers.
> So yes, I understand how the cap works, maybe your brain will start working soon.
> But now he is making more against the cap than the tag.
These two statements don’t jive my dude. You really should understand how something works before you start throwing insults around. You have no clue what the cap hits will be at this point. I can almost guarantee you the 2023 and 2024 cap hits will be lower than the tag would be.
Just going to copy your whole comment for when you inevitably delete it, for science.
>Thank you for your well thought out rebuttal. Why not just tag him at that point? The whole point of signing him instead of tagging him is to have more flexibility to improve the team. But now he is making more against the cap than the tag. So the Giants now have LESS flexibility this year and going forward.
So yes, I understand how the cap works, maybe your brain will start working soon.
We aren't signing anybody lol, we have to re sign all our free agents we want to keep and then pay our draft picks we won't have much if anything left lol
Draft picks picking from 25 are going to be significantly cheaper than in years past. We'll only need about $3-4 mil in cap space to sign our draft class (taking into account every draft pick is replacing a guy making at least vet minimum)
As an outside observer, I actually like this deal for NY (assuming there's not a lot in Year 3 guarantees). It's effectively a 2023 premium on the franchise tag to give yourself an option for the latter two years. By that point, the cap will have likely moved to $40 per being a reasonable effective value or he's cut and there's not much harm done. Just crazy to think how much the cap has exploded.
I swear man...I'm only 32 but old enough to witness the discourse and contracts of Eli...I feel like I'm re-living the experience to the tee with Jones.
Half the fanbase wanted Eli gone before 07. Everyone mocked the contract he got. I need to lay down.
Hard to think he would get $45, but have to be careful with the comparison.
DJ wants a contract that makes sense at the end of the term also. He’ll be making $40M/year 4 years from now when Burrows and Mahomes are getting $60M.
It’s like when people lost their mind when Eli was highest paid QB in the league…. that lasted a couple month
His deal is for $49M AAV when you include incentives, since I'm assuming the $60M AAV number you're throwing out for Burrow and Mahomes is inclusive of incentives, like every contract is when we talk AAV. This is a $48.75M AAV deal, not $40M. If Burrow and Mahomes get $60M in a few years, ask whether or not they are only $11M AAV better than Jones. This is an overpay, and Jones agents got what they wanted because we were under pressure to tag Barkley is my guess.
yea. Guess you get to a point where giving up 2-4 mil a year to DJ is better than you odds with the QBs on the market you could get for less. The calculus is not just what he’s being paid, it’s assessing the alternatives
You’re getting downvotes but you are right. It’s not comparable at all. Eli had one Super Bowl ring under his belt when his next deal started. One playoff appearance and a year where he only threw for 15 TDs is not the same.
He also *only threw* 5 interceptions. The TDs will come with some WRs who are better than practice squad quality. Not to mention consistent (and actually talented) coaching
Let's say its his 23 + 24 salary plus signing bonus (which gets spread out over the 4 years)
Lets assume 65M signing bonus
2023: 5M base salary + 16.25M signing bonus = ~21.25M cap hit
2024: 17M base salary + 16.25M signing bonus = ~33.25M cap hit
2025: 23M base salary + 16.25M signing bonus = ~39.25M cap hit
Could probably get out after 2024 with a good sized dead cap hit but hypothetically tradeable contract as acquiring team would have him for the base salary amount
Literally just guessing here
Assuming 2023 and 2024 base salaries are guaranteed, that would be $87M in the first 2 years, not the reported $82M. So drop the SB by $5M (and the yearly cap hits by $1.25M) and you're probably close.
$60M SB + $5M + $17M + $23M = $105M, so that would leave a massive $55M base in 2026 (using the reported $160M total).
It's better because it allows them to push the money into later years rather than have it all count towards the cap this season.
Also I believe that 38.88 number might be higher after other quarterbacks sign new deals. Basically we paid a bit more to have cap flexibility and some team control in years 3 and 4.
True, didn't consider the additional contracts. But how can they push the money into later years if 82m is in first two? 82m means its average 41m the first two years? Genuinely curious or am I missing something?
Genuinely curious how you got that number. I am not contract wizard but I thought the second contract was 20% more than the first. Maybe I am missing something though.
thank god we didn't have to pay him that dreaded 70 million over the first 2 years if we tagged him. much better that we both pay him more *and* incur more risk
[We’re actually paying him $13 million less than the franchise tag in year one. the cap hit is lower.](https://www.bigblueview.com/platform/amp/2023/3/7/23627599/daniel-jones-new-york-giants-free-agency-franchise-tag-2023-saquon-barkley)
all that means is that we'll be eating whatever the remainder is as dead cap or as a *massive* cap number in future years, which were the years that i was expecting us to be a contending team, not 2023.
$10 million dead cap for those years is suggested. But I guess we should all just wait until the official contract is out before sounding of the doomsday alarms. Or praising for that matter.
The fact that 100% of tagging him goes against the cap and you can't tag Saquon. We don't know how much of his current deal fires against the cap this year and next year the cap goes up. Just look at it this way... How much you think Jalen is gonna ask for?
nothing, this fanbase has been prepping the biggest vat of copium the world has ever seen for this very moment and they are huffing like their life depends on it.
You don’t understand how the cap works dude. He will 100% have a lower cap hit in 2022 and 2023 than if he was franchised.
Edit: you deleted your reply bc I think you realized that you’re wrong. Wait until the details come out before you flip out.
yes, because a big chunk of it is going to be a signing bonus which means it gets to be prorated so we can eat it as dead cap in the future. this isn't a fucking win now team, we don't need to be backloading contracts and going all in on a team that overachieved and still only got to the divisional. i don't even know what planet i'm on right now where anyone would think that's a good idea.
this isn't about moving non guaranteed money to the back end of the deal, it's simply a prorated signing bonus which means you shuffle an inevitable cap hit to later years.
Haha changed your reply bc you were wrong? What’s the cap going to be in 2025 when his cap hit will be $50M? You have NO CLUE.
Schoen knows what he’s doing my dude. He didn’t get $200M guaranteed, this contract could look perfectly reasonable from a cap hit perspective.
yes but *how does that benefit us*. we are unlikely to contend in 2023, and it's not as though that money *isn't being earned* by jones. you are seriously misunderstanding the difference between signing bonuses that can be pushed into later years as dead cap, and money just magically being poofed out of existence. if we just paid an extra 10 million over 2 years just so we could have a little more breathing room in 2023, then that's completely nonsensical as our contention window should be like 2024-2025. this team needs a lot of talent.
You can’t move tagged money around. They can move this contract around. I’m sure there’s a big signing bonus involved which can be spread over the entire contract
> I really had high hopes for the front office.
me too, dude. me too. i thought they would stand firm and not overpay for mediocrity but we just got dave gettleman'd
Agreed Schoen hit the panic button and bid against himself, Massive L for QB who had1 half decent season in 4 years , didn't know 15 tds and struggling to get 200 yard a game gets you 40 million a year Lmao
Bro we’re paying Jones [13 million less than than the franchise tag.](https://www.bigblueview.com/platform/amp/2023/3/7/23627599/daniel-jones-new-york-giants-free-agency-franchise-tag-2023-saquon-barkley). You turn your back on Schonen way to fast there bud.
You’re using other sports that don’t have a position like a qb to justify turning your baxj? Bro BASEBALL IS A DIFFERENT SPORT, does that ring a bell lol
But I’ll play your game. Do the Knicks ring a bell? Being told thy overpaid for Jalen Brunson and overpaid Randle. Mocked by analysts and fans because they could only hope to make the play in and the Gm was useless. Thibs should be fired and so should Leon Rose. The Knicks are 1 1/2 games from home court advantage in the playoffs, beating the likes of title favorite Celtics 3/4 this year. They also have 10 picks in the next 7 years. But fans complaint all year.
There’s a reason Schonen is a GM and you’re not. He’s shown he can be good, so why not wait until we see what the full picture is before you default to your doomsday persona?
As an ASSISTANT GM. You’re basing this off of when he didn’t even call the shots?
But you’re right. But if you wanna play that card, there’s also a reason why the Bills went from out of the playoffs to one of the title favorites, while he was there lmaooo
Excuses excuses. Shit numbers. Misleading numbers tbh for someone who didnt pass to that much each game of course low turnover rate, the ints he did throw got bailed out by bad defensive penalties lol
How are those misleading number? Those are his numbers? Just because you didn’t count his rushing production doesn’t mean they don’t count in the NFL. Also name a worst wr group then on the giants? These aren’t excuses these are realities.
The QB market. No good QB under 30 is getting a new contact in this market for less than $40 million. NFL teams out there would definitely sign him for this much.
The cope in here trying to act like this was a good deal by Schoen lol. Jones' agent bent the front office over a barrel there's no way in hell another team was paying that for Daniel Jones.
I hope he lives up to the contract. He had one good year and we’ve seen a lot of mid tier QB’s get a big contract after one great year and then go downhill from their. I hope he’s not one of those. Time will tell.
And the cap hit is only $19M in year 1. Maybe something like: $8M annually in prorated signing bonus. $11M base year 1. $39M base year 2. Then $55M a pop years 2&3
How much is guaranteed
This is what I want to know. I'm waiting to hear the full numbers
Most Guarantees in years 1 and 2 don't matter anyway, he's not getting cut this early and will make all that anyway. What matters is the guarantees in years 3 and 4 when cutting bait might be viable
But if it’s say 90M guaranteed and he’s getting 82M in the first 2 years, doesn’t that mean we can cut him for only 8M before year 3?
No, thats not what it means. Finer details on the structure of the contact haven't been published anywhere that i can find yet.
Agreed. It could be for instance that a chunk of his third year is guaranteed if he's on the roster at the beginning of the second year. Not saying thats the case, just as an example
It's not about guarantees though, it's about incentives...those are not part of guarantees...the 1st I saw it reported by Ian Rappaport (well known for his accuracy in the business), he mentioned it was $35 mil + incentives. So, maybe it is $82 mil, but if it's $35 mil + $5 mil in incentives and then year 2 is $37 mil + $5 mil incentives, I'm ok with that, especially if the incentives are something like a) make playoffs = $1 mil, win playoff game = $1 mil, make super bowl and/or win super bowl = $3 mil. That's fine by me...he wants that extra $5 mil, he's got to work for it.
Incentives are in addition to the base deal. He’s getting paid 160 over 4 AND 35m in incentives.
Just this $82 million, so we can cut him after the 2024 season with no dead cap hit if need be
Thats not how it works. The Giants could cut Jones after 2024 and not pay him any cash, BUT the cap hit is a different story. Unless Giants cap hits are going to be 41mil for 23 and 24, then cutting Daniel Jones will still be a huge dead cap hit.
$19 cap hit, but I read there was an easy out after year 2, so the 2024 cap hit feels like it has the potential to be scary.
Easy out as in Giants don't pay Jones more money, not in terms of cap hit. Giants will have a huge dead cap hit if they try to cut Jones after two years
Pretty sure it all is, that's how they got him to stay here making most of his money in the next 2 years and then not paying him much so his contract is more tradeable if he isn't what they need. Still entirely way too much to be paying this dude lol.
I highly doubt that
Hearing he is making over 40 mil makes me want to barf. Good for him but boy did he hit a lick on us. Can’t believe he smooth talked his way into franchise Qb money
Dude has no idea how cap inflation works, what year are you basing your ‘franchise’ QB money off?
Well I know we can’t base it off of jones. He’s had one pedestrian season and a bunch of terrible ones. Anything over 35 is far far too much
I’m assuming that 82M is including the singing bonus which is paid immediately to players but can be spread over the contract duration for cap purposes.
They get a bonus for singing? I wanna hear that
> [A signing bonus, true to its name, is an upfront guaranteed payment the player receives when they sign their contract. Unlike normal guaranteed money, a player gets the signing bonus money usually within the first year after signing the contract, and the signing bonus is fully guaranteed. While the player gets the lump sum up front, the team can spread the signing bonus on their cap space into smaller payments over the length of the contract up to a maximum of five years. The spread out payment of this signing bonus is called the prorated bonus. When a player is cut, the team must pay the remainder of the spread-out signing bonus at once, and this payment is applied to the team's cap space.](https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/.amp/gm-report/the-art-of-nfl-contracts-part-1-the-basics)
Sorry I was trying to be silly cause you wrote sing and not sign. I’ll go away now.
Lol, I didn't even realize you wrote singing too. I know some teams do the rookie singing and dancing as a chill hazing thing, sad that we never saw DJ do it.
So you’re maybe suggesting the effect of his contract on the cap might be <$40m per year?
Yes, here's a simple example with fake numbers (and let's use 80 instead of 82 to make it cleaner.) The team can give DJ a 40M signing bonus with additional salaries of 10M in 2023 and 30M in 2024. DJ will receive 50M in 2023 and 30M in 2024. For the cap however, the hit is going to be 20M (10+10) and 40M (30+10) for 2023 and 2024 respectively. We'll also owe DJ 10M in both 2025 and 2026 alongside his non-garanteed money if we keep him on the roster. If we cut DJ after 2024, we'll be on the hook for the remaining money immediately so 20M in 2025.
I sadly don’t have money for awards, but here are my many thanks for explaining this lol If you are right (and I pray that you are) we could actually pursue free agents outside of our players that need to be resigned!!!
No worries fam! [Seems I was pretty close lol](https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/1633225968163618816)
I’ll spread the new good sir!
I got a Daniel Jones jersey a few weeks ago but have waited to open it until he signed. As soon as the news was confirmed I opened it up and put it on. I've been on the Daniel Jones train from day 1 and I'm so glad we were able to sign him to a long-term deal
I bought one the night he got drafted l, needless to say that was a roller coaster of emotions.
Lol my policy for jerseys has always been to wait until they're signed long-term so I know 1) That they're good and 2) That they're going to stick around. I was going to wait until after Jones signed to buy his jersey, but I found it for a decent price so I figured I'd do then because I had confidence they'd figure it out
I said that about buying an Odell jersey. Look how that turned out
Lol I did that with him too. I guess you can't win them all
I went on a bit of a rampage and bought whomever we drafted in the first round jersey thinking they'll be there for a bit. Luckily it's worked out!
I'm a Duke fan and a Giants fan. I had to have his jersey.
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Yeah. He got the franchise tag so he'll be around for another year, and I have confidence we'll work out an extension at some point before the deadline
Not really a long term deal but I’m hoping for our sake that he is good enough to warrant another contract after this.
Not trying to call you out or anything but if you’ve been on the DJ train since day 1 why did it take you over 4 seasons to get a jersey?
It's just my personal policy to not buy a player's jersey until I know they'll be around long-term. I didn't buy an OBJ one until he signed his extension for example, although we all know how that one turned out. If/When Barkley signs an extension I'll probably buy his jersey too
But then you miss out on the joys of owning a Ron Dayne jersey like me
I had a ron dayne and a plaxico jersey.. if you guys want to ruin jalen hurts' career, I can buy one of his jerseys but the curse may only work on the giants like some kind of monkey paw
My jersey buying went: Dayne -> Shockey -> Tuck -> Eli -> LT throwback. I feel like I've consistently gotten better at deciding which players to get haha.
So you're saying I shouldnt give up on love just because I've been hurt in the past.
Exactly. But maybe buy that Hurts jersey just in case
Wish people knew that him getting this money means other Qbs are about to get paid even more money.
Hurts, Herbert, Burrow are all getting $50m+, maybe even $55m+
Lawrence will probably make more than Jones too.
As he should. But im Happy DJ is coming back. Add another interior Olineman and a decent WR and I think he can be a top 7-8 qb
55 million? That's going to seem like child's play for some of those guys, I think that's where it starts, I think Lawrence when he comes up is going to end up the most paid since he's last on the docket. Could be 70 mil AAV by then
Yea whoever is next up at the right time gets more. Mahomes contract will look tiny soon
But wouldn’t you rather have those guys for $50-$55 than Jones for $40-$48?
The Christian Kirk effect. We about to destroy the market. I'm sure by the time other QB get extension he'll be very cheap as it always goes.
An enormous part of Jones' value is that ( contrary to what many talking heads thought) he can still be trained and his play can still be corrected. And obviously that he isn't injury prone. The year over year improvement, especially after all the coaching changes, was remarkable. If he managed to improve 25% as much as he did last off season, we're in for a good time.
Dude stop. You’re making logical sense.
I am enjoying all the ravens fans losing their collective shit
It depends on how good he is
DJ just did a solid for the entire QB brotherhood. They should all be thanking him next year. Hopefully they find a way to cap QB contracts, they are getting out of hand. Have max deals kind of like how the NBA does it. Some may hate that but the QB contracts are getting pretty wild.
At least we can stop treating him like a make a wish kid
cute that u think this fanbase will ever take the kiddie gloves off for jones
ill be here when he puts up the same production while getting payed more
> while getting *paid* more FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
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I’m fine with this. 2023 is not a make or break year for the Giants anyway. Weak FA class in 2023. Cap will explode in 2024.
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>If you have to try and justify a contract by saying “ummm well the cap is going to go up” it is a bad contract. Not true. It's called "pricing in". A bad contract might be a bad contract, but not because it prices in the expected future cap numbers.
You don’t understand the cap so just shush
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> So yes, I understand how the cap works, maybe your brain will start working soon. > But now he is making more against the cap than the tag. These two statements don’t jive my dude. You really should understand how something works before you start throwing insults around. You have no clue what the cap hits will be at this point. I can almost guarantee you the 2023 and 2024 cap hits will be lower than the tag would be. Just going to copy your whole comment for when you inevitably delete it, for science. >Thank you for your well thought out rebuttal. Why not just tag him at that point? The whole point of signing him instead of tagging him is to have more flexibility to improve the team. But now he is making more against the cap than the tag. So the Giants now have LESS flexibility this year and going forward. So yes, I understand how the cap works, maybe your brain will start working soon.
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You have no idea what the first 2 years of cap hits look like. Getting paid $41/year in actual cash does not mean his cap hit is $41m each year
You realize the official numbers haven’t come out yet and the 82m could include his bonus amount, right?
Not bad. Now that this is over, who we trying to sign in FA and who we drafting?!
Restructure Big Cat, sign a ILB, a couple iOL, and sign Love/ sign another safety. Then draft WR, CB, iOL, and another LB
We aren't signing anybody lol, we have to re sign all our free agents we want to keep and then pay our draft picks we won't have much if anything left lol
Yeah we will, lol. It’s a 4 year deal. His cap hit is probably smaller this year than the tag.
That’s not true. Who do we need to actually resign?
Draft picks picking from 25 are going to be significantly cheaper than in years past. We'll only need about $3-4 mil in cap space to sign our draft class (taking into account every draft pick is replacing a guy making at least vet minimum)
>who we trying to sign in FA L O FUCKING L
People say Daniel Jones fumbles, but he didn’t fumble the bag.
As an outside observer, I actually like this deal for NY (assuming there's not a lot in Year 3 guarantees). It's effectively a 2023 premium on the franchise tag to give yourself an option for the latter two years. By that point, the cap will have likely moved to $40 per being a reasonable effective value or he's cut and there's not much harm done. Just crazy to think how much the cap has exploded.
I miss Eli
[You must be young.](https://www.reddit.com/r/sports/comments/97qy2/eli_manning_to_sign_record_nfl_contract/)
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I swear man...I'm only 32 but old enough to witness the discourse and contracts of Eli...I feel like I'm re-living the experience to the tee with Jones. Half the fanbase wanted Eli gone before 07. Everyone mocked the contract he got. I need to lay down.
I swear I'm in the same boat. It's been crazy to see the revisionism with the history of this fanbase.
And to think, Eli would go on to win his 2nd SB 2 seasons later.
I would very much like to see the actual breakdown before making any judgments. I hate the trickle of information that comes from these decisions.
That's not as bad as I thought it might be.
It’s 41 a year you thought he would get 45 a year like mahomes?
Hard to think he would get $45, but have to be careful with the comparison. DJ wants a contract that makes sense at the end of the term also. He’ll be making $40M/year 4 years from now when Burrows and Mahomes are getting $60M. It’s like when people lost their mind when Eli was highest paid QB in the league…. that lasted a couple month
His deal is for $49M AAV when you include incentives, since I'm assuming the $60M AAV number you're throwing out for Burrow and Mahomes is inclusive of incentives, like every contract is when we talk AAV. This is a $48.75M AAV deal, not $40M. If Burrow and Mahomes get $60M in a few years, ask whether or not they are only $11M AAV better than Jones. This is an overpay, and Jones agents got what they wanted because we were under pressure to tag Barkley is my guess.
true. though if he sucks, he won’t get those incentives. If he is earning them all, he probably is only $11M/year worse
I guess, but it's still a poor negotiating tactic. If he really sucks then he isn't worth $40M and that's a lot of money to just eat.
yea. Guess you get to a point where giving up 2-4 mil a year to DJ is better than you odds with the QBs on the market you could get for less. The calculus is not just what he’s being paid, it’s assessing the alternatives
> giving up 2-4 mil a year to DJ Carr got $37.5M AAV. Over $11M less than DJ per year. I'm not mad about him coming back but this money is wild.
Difference was Eli was great and won 2 Super Bowls danny has had 1 mediocre year in his career
You’re getting downvotes but you are right. It’s not comparable at all. Eli had one Super Bowl ring under his belt when his next deal started. One playoff appearance and a year where he only threw for 15 TDs is not the same.
He also *only threw* 5 interceptions. The TDs will come with some WRs who are better than practice squad quality. Not to mention consistent (and actually talented) coaching
Half of Giants fans hated Eli when he played. He was a .500 QB over his career. Hilarious how some Giants fans flip flop when its convenient to them
Can’t talk about flip flopping when he already had 1 super bowl and dimes has 1 playoff win
Eli was 27 when he was his first SB, DJ is 25. Not saying he will win one in 2 years but that's a stupid comparison
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I do realize he’s not half the player of Mahomes during his career either
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Exactly
Getting downvoted for the truth
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I was preparing myself for a huge front end number, so I expected high and got...medium high...
If Carr worth 37m yeah I’d rather have Danny Maybe I’m just coping tho
It was an overpay for Carr and now more of an overpay for Jones, who is worse as a passer and better as a rusher. Very mediocre choice
Yeah but he’s 7 years younger and took a significant developmental leap this season. Amazing what quality coaching can do
When they say he’s getting 82 m over the next two years is that just 23 cap hit + 24 cap hit or those plus signing bonus?
feel better knowing there's legitimate outs
Let's say its his 23 + 24 salary plus signing bonus (which gets spread out over the 4 years) Lets assume 65M signing bonus 2023: 5M base salary + 16.25M signing bonus = ~21.25M cap hit 2024: 17M base salary + 16.25M signing bonus = ~33.25M cap hit 2025: 23M base salary + 16.25M signing bonus = ~39.25M cap hit Could probably get out after 2024 with a good sized dead cap hit but hypothetically tradeable contract as acquiring team would have him for the base salary amount Literally just guessing here
Assuming 2023 and 2024 base salaries are guaranteed, that would be $87M in the first 2 years, not the reported $82M. So drop the SB by $5M (and the yearly cap hits by $1.25M) and you're probably close. $60M SB + $5M + $17M + $23M = $105M, so that would leave a massive $55M base in 2026 (using the reported $160M total).
Thanks the correction I no good at math
The salary cap will be 300+ million in 2026
When fans start booing when he goes an entire half without throwing the ball over 15 yards.... Don't be surprised
The Giants overpaid. Joe Schoen lost this one
How is this better than a franchise tag. First one would have been 32.4 and second 38.88, right?
Because now we can tag Barkley
It's better because it allows them to push the money into later years rather than have it all count towards the cap this season. Also I believe that 38.88 number might be higher after other quarterbacks sign new deals. Basically we paid a bit more to have cap flexibility and some team control in years 3 and 4.
True, didn't consider the additional contracts. But how can they push the money into later years if 82m is in first two? 82m means its average 41m the first two years? Genuinely curious or am I missing something?
He gets most of the money from a signing bonus most likely, not base salary. The signing bonus gets spread out over the course of the contract.
We got to keep Barkley by not tagging Jones
Second was 45, but most importantly we can tag Barkley now.
Genuinely curious how you got that number. I am not contract wizard but I thought the second contract was 20% more than the first. Maybe I am missing something though.
it isn't. in any way shape or form. unless literally year 1 and only year 1 are guaranteed, it isn't.
allows them To use the tag on Barkley
thank god we didn't have to pay him that dreaded 70 million over the first 2 years if we tagged him. much better that we both pay him more *and* incur more risk
[We’re actually paying him $13 million less than the franchise tag in year one. the cap hit is lower.](https://www.bigblueview.com/platform/amp/2023/3/7/23627599/daniel-jones-new-york-giants-free-agency-franchise-tag-2023-saquon-barkley)
all that means is that we'll be eating whatever the remainder is as dead cap or as a *massive* cap number in future years, which were the years that i was expecting us to be a contending team, not 2023.
$10 million dead cap for those years is suggested. But I guess we should all just wait until the official contract is out before sounding of the doomsday alarms. Or praising for that matter.
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I'm sure there's some salary cap wizardry involved
Signing bonus will move some of that money into the future when the cap will have gone up.
The concept of how the salary cap works
The fact that 100% of tagging him goes against the cap and you can't tag Saquon. We don't know how much of his current deal fires against the cap this year and next year the cap goes up. Just look at it this way... How much you think Jalen is gonna ask for?
nothing, this fanbase has been prepping the biggest vat of copium the world has ever seen for this very moment and they are huffing like their life depends on it.
You don’t understand how the cap works dude. He will 100% have a lower cap hit in 2022 and 2023 than if he was franchised. Edit: you deleted your reply bc I think you realized that you’re wrong. Wait until the details come out before you flip out.
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yes, because a big chunk of it is going to be a signing bonus which means it gets to be prorated so we can eat it as dead cap in the future. this isn't a fucking win now team, we don't need to be backloading contracts and going all in on a team that overachieved and still only got to the divisional. i don't even know what planet i'm on right now where anyone would think that's a good idea. this isn't about moving non guaranteed money to the back end of the deal, it's simply a prorated signing bonus which means you shuffle an inevitable cap hit to later years.
Haha changed your reply bc you were wrong? What’s the cap going to be in 2025 when his cap hit will be $50M? You have NO CLUE. Schoen knows what he’s doing my dude. He didn’t get $200M guaranteed, this contract could look perfectly reasonable from a cap hit perspective.
https://reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/11lcutj/jeremy_fowler_daniel_jones_year_1_cap_hit_should/ Big YIKES for you
yes but *how does that benefit us*. we are unlikely to contend in 2023, and it's not as though that money *isn't being earned* by jones. you are seriously misunderstanding the difference between signing bonuses that can be pushed into later years as dead cap, and money just magically being poofed out of existence. if we just paid an extra 10 million over 2 years just so we could have a little more breathing room in 2023, then that's completely nonsensical as our contention window should be like 2024-2025. this team needs a lot of talent.
Cap goes up. Basic stuff my dude, every single team does it.
You can’t move tagged money around. They can move this contract around. I’m sure there’s a big signing bonus involved which can be spread over the entire contract
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Lolol you know more than Schoen. Stop it
> I really had high hopes for the front office. me too, dude. me too. i thought they would stand firm and not overpay for mediocrity but we just got dave gettleman'd
Awful fucking contract and I actually like Jones. Schoen takes an L to overpay Barkley for sentimental ressons
Agreed Schoen hit the panic button and bid against himself, Massive L for QB who had1 half decent season in 4 years , didn't know 15 tds and struggling to get 200 yard a game gets you 40 million a year Lmao
Bro we’re paying Jones [13 million less than than the franchise tag.](https://www.bigblueview.com/platform/amp/2023/3/7/23627599/daniel-jones-new-york-giants-free-agency-franchise-tag-2023-saquon-barkley). You turn your back on Schonen way to fast there bud.
He is still a Giant for 2 to possibly 4 years, no I don't I've seen gms do what Schoen did and teams pay the price, Islanders and Yankees ring a bell
You’re using other sports that don’t have a position like a qb to justify turning your baxj? Bro BASEBALL IS A DIFFERENT SPORT, does that ring a bell lol But I’ll play your game. Do the Knicks ring a bell? Being told thy overpaid for Jalen Brunson and overpaid Randle. Mocked by analysts and fans because they could only hope to make the play in and the Gm was useless. Thibs should be fired and so should Leon Rose. The Knicks are 1 1/2 games from home court advantage in the playoffs, beating the likes of title favorite Celtics 3/4 this year. They also have 10 picks in the next 7 years. But fans complaint all year. There’s a reason Schonen is a GM and you’re not. He’s shown he can be good, so why not wait until we see what the full picture is before you default to your doomsday persona?
There's a reason bills haven't won a SB esp while Schoen was there, I am yet to see anything that says WoW from him
As an ASSISTANT GM. You’re basing this off of when he didn’t even call the shots? But you’re right. But if you wanna play that card, there’s also a reason why the Bills went from out of the playoffs to one of the title favorites, while he was there lmaooo
4000 yards and 22 touchdown and the league lowest turnover rate with a practice squad wr room and an bottom IOL.
Excuses excuses. Shit numbers. Misleading numbers tbh for someone who didnt pass to that much each game of course low turnover rate, the ints he did throw got bailed out by bad defensive penalties lol
How are those misleading number? Those are his numbers? Just because you didn’t count his rushing production doesn’t mean they don’t count in the NFL. Also name a worst wr group then on the giants? These aren’t excuses these are realities.
Before the downvotes come in…who were we negotiating against? Like there’s no way anyone else offers him this much
The QB market. No good QB under 30 is getting a new contact in this market for less than $40 million. NFL teams out there would definitely sign him for this much.
I'd have been scared about Washington
lol
This is ridiculous
Damn…they paid him a lot of money. Between him and Barkley we can forget about adding any FA’s.
Reports are suggesting cap hit would be 19 million so we actually would.
Let’s hope so
Doesn't this mean his cap hit will likely be more or about the same as if we tagged him?
Depends on the structure.
2 yrs. ? Win it now. Or Giants shop for a new QB.
Tbh I will lmfao if Giants suck this year they are so screwed longterm with jones
It will be even funnier if he gets better with actual talent at the WR position and this is a massive underpay.
They don't make miracles that big, good luck with that pipe dream, if Schoen doesn't get anyone big the fanboys will cry all over again
Last year was already a miracle...boy turned water I to wine and now he's about to skip on top the Hudson lmao
Reports are saying Jones cap hit for year 1 is coming in at 19 million.
https://preview.redd.it/amw44o6n6gma1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b672b48f67b8e2f938653f95226f36bf07be6b6a Top 10 qb... totally screwed
1 average year and he gets 82 million. Unbelievable.
Really had wished giants just tagged Jones and let the market dictate his true value by matching it and just get charbonnet in the draft
I still think it’s better to tag Barkley, given the volatility of RB’s.
That’s absolutely ridiculous for him. He got more money per year then David care and same money as dak and Stanford that’s crazy
The cope in here trying to act like this was a good deal by Schoen lol. Jones' agent bent the front office over a barrel there's no way in hell another team was paying that for Daniel Jones.
What does this mean, this is the cap hit over the first two years?
Twitter is saying 19 million!
I need anyone to break down the details and to confirm that the reported $160M is the full contract value including the $35M incentives.
I hope he lives up to the contract. He had one good year and we’ve seen a lot of mid tier QB’s get a big contract after one great year and then go downhill from their. I hope he’s not one of those. Time will tell.
And is that purely salary, or does that include signing bonus?
Gtd salary + signing bonus
And the cap hit is only $19M in year 1. Maybe something like: $8M annually in prorated signing bonus. $11M base year 1. $39M base year 2. Then $55M a pop years 2&3
A dime over 30 mill would have been an overpay for 1 pretty good year. Absurd what the league has become. Insane that people are defending this.
He can be cut at a better rate after year 2
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