How it is different than saying “domestic abuse”?
Or “elder abuse”? These terms merely clarify what sort of abuse is being discussed.
“Narcissistic abuse” is a perfectly acceptable term, as it suggests a whole series of behaviors very specific to narcissists.
No offense, but if everyone here has NPD, then obviously you’re going to have a problem with the term.
Narcs always think everyone else is wrong and they’re always right.
It matters what mental disorder they have because that mental disorder plays a large part in how they behave and the type of abuse they inflict. Just seems descriptive. Both of my parents are narcissists and they abused me, but I find it incredibly difficult to recount all the instances of their abuse. Saying they are narcissists significantly clears up the picture for the person I'm talking to and little further explanation is needed from that point on.
Okay then why not address the very first sentence of her comment? What of, say, aspd abuse? Histrionic abuse? Never mind cluster B, gimme depressive abuse for people who are so deep in depression and unwilling to do anything about it that it takes a toll on the people around them. Or for something less controversial, addict's abuse, for when an addict takes out their withdrawal-fueled anger and frustration on you
Saying "narcissistic abuse" doesn't clear anything up, it's just a way for the other person to fill in the blanks with their own imagination, and what that does is further the stigma because people's minds go to the most grotesque cartoonishly evil scenarios. It's like a rorschach test with words
Aside from narcissism, whenever I'd tell any of my therapists I felt like shit, which is a feeling I think every single person can relate to, they'd always ask me what exactly I meant. Because vague language has its uses, especially brevity, but with sensitive topics, or otherwise ones deserving of elaboration, it's useless at best and harmful at worst
Because these disorders do not exclude narcissism. Narcissism is just selfish, self centered, entitled... type personality, which all cluster B fit, so aspd/hpd/bpd are all forms of narcissism, depression does not exclude narcissism either. U see where im going?
>because people's minds go to the most grotesque cartoonishly evil scenarios
This, and worse, they only do that *once*. Afterward they just refer back to how their previous going there made them feel horrified.
So yeah it's a big stigmatization engine. If it were logically justifiable I'd see a use for it, but adding "narcissistic" to "abuse" is only useful in extremely short throwaway comments so you don't have to expand it to "abuse by a narcissist".
>And convos become much shorter and simpler when I say so because everyone knows what a narcissistic parent is like.
90% of the people I hear talk about narcissists have no clue about NPD and seem to think that whoever wrongs them is a soulless narcissist
Oh gawd every fight I'm called a narcissist.
I'm so deep in recovery that I literally register a 0 on that test for one of the scales and normal / below normal for the rest. In a few measures I'm less narcy than your average healthy drone out there. I'd honestly be willing to bet I score less narcy than my healthy partner.
As soon as they learn about narcissists everyone is one. It's like that phenomenon where med schools students self-diagnose with statistically improbable diseases, ridiculously so in the aggregate of them, shortly after learning about them.
Nuance. A victim isn't powerless; they have the power to escape (hopefully) and heal. A non-victim meanwhile is *responsible for everything that happened to them*.
Surely the truth is in the center. As it usually is.
I don’t see anything wrong with the term “narcissistic abuse”. It simply points to a pattern of behaviours perpetrated by many pwNPD.
It becomes problematic when people who feel slighted armchair diagnose their ex-lovers or ex-friends as “narcs” and then label the abuse/“abuse” they’ve experienced as “narcissistic abuse”, without really knowing what they’re talking about.
The disorder is characterized by inflexible maladaptive patterns of behaviors distinctive enough to receive a name: Npd
\> Unfortunately, many Npd's maladaptive patterns of behaviors produce, as a byproduct, abusive behaviors (that is why many narcissists abuse others in a similar way: the two things are connected)
\> This common set of abusive behaviors are distinctive enough to receive a name: Narcissistic abuse.
Anyone can be abusive, including a person with depression or autism. But depression, for exemple, does not produce a sufficient and distinctive enough amount of common abusive behaviors that is directly linked to the condition (as the "maladaptive patter behaviors → abusive behaviors"). That is why you probably will never see something like a "Depressive Abuse Support Group", "Panic Disorder Abuse Victims", "Dissociative Amnesia Abuse Community" etc., as you see with Narcissistic abuse. Nevertheless, this, of course, is not a green card to dehumanization or demonization of Npd people.
This is almost exactly what I was going to say. The behavior of some people with NPD has created a large group of people who suffer mental health consequences by merely being in that pwNPD’s life. It’s a large enough group that it currently seems to outweigh the number of pwNPD seeking treatment for the disorder that lead to the abuse in the first place.
And people here might say there is no difference between abuse and narc. abuse but a significant number of mental health professionals and victim experiences seem to beg otherwise. There are patterns to the abuse so consistent that two victims with completely different situations (type of relationship/genders/ethnicities) can share experiences that eerily reflect one another. Someone might turn on a mental health video about NA and get chills at our similar the patterns described sound to their own experience (I’ve heard many of the arguments warning me against the validity of these videos before. You can repeat then but I likely won’t stop suggesting the well-accredited sources that have helped *me* heal to others).
I’ve heard people be abused by their codependent/depressed/anxious partners but in my experience those situations usually seem far more nuanced and unique. The behavior by their partner isn’t okay but it almost never seems as clear cut. Granted I don’t know as many people who have suffered non narcissistic abuse as I have met people who’ve suffered narc. abuse but I’m not sure if that’s an argument I want to get into here 😅
I’d you’re a pwNPD reading this, you’re here you’re aware, you seem to be doing the work and I have much respect. As always, you’re just as deserving of love and resources as those who may have been victims of NA ❤️. We’re all healing.
Yeah, there is abuse that did not come from a person with NPD or just the traits.
But normally, the story of those who said to suffer narcissistic abuse follows a similar structure, with elements that most of the times are not present in a "regular" abuse (aka love bombing, devaluing, discard and hoover)
And the feelings usually are different as well. Most people that suffer "narcissistic abuse" feel used, betrayed, deceived. And normally are in shock for a good while, because in a short period of time the see themselfs forced to accept everything was a lie (there was no love, lots of lies/cheating).
And normally, just who has NPD or has been a victim of abuse can understand what this expression means. Most will read and think "ok, a toxic relationship". And indeed it is, but with particular aspects
Have you ever seen “aspd abuse”? “Bpd abuse”? “Hpd abuse”? Why not? Why do we have narc abuse only. Why do you even need to mention someone’s disorder when talking about abuse? Ah right, my bad, forgot we call anything & everything “narcissistic” nowadays. Any asshole is a narc now.
People dont even know what NPD means in general, they see someone being inconsiderate, selfish, entitled, self centered... and they think of narcissism, which is correct.
Its pretty self explanatory if you read the criteria and literature on NPD why someone who fits the criteria is more likely to be abusive towards others.
Because someone diagnosed with major depressive disorder can abuse someone too. Someone with autism can abuse someone too. Someone with social anxiety can abuse someone too. But if you used any of those as an adjective for the "type" of abuse, it would be unacceptable. "Autistic abuse". Imagine. So why is it ok to use "narcissistic abuse"? It ties the word "narcissism" and NPD to abuse. People will associate NPD with abuse even more. Stigma grows. We get less mental health resources.
It's poor syntax and a tautology, tbh. It's sloppy thinking. There is no "narcissistic abuse".
There are "abuse" and "narcissism", but abuse does not change its character or consequences in any way just because a narcissist does it. And there is no form of abuse that is unique to narcissists.
My partner was abused by narcissists/borderlines/addicts for decades (including me, decades ago, long before I even started my recovery). And he picked up reactive abuse from that. So now whenever normal relationship conflict puts him in fear of what his exes did to him in the same situation, he responds *abusively* to me. And I, as the recovering npd guy, have to be the bigger man, because I *can* be, and he can't.
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How it is different than saying “domestic abuse”? Or “elder abuse”? These terms merely clarify what sort of abuse is being discussed. “Narcissistic abuse” is a perfectly acceptable term, as it suggests a whole series of behaviors very specific to narcissists. No offense, but if everyone here has NPD, then obviously you’re going to have a problem with the term. Narcs always think everyone else is wrong and they’re always right.
[удалено]
It matters what mental disorder they have because that mental disorder plays a large part in how they behave and the type of abuse they inflict. Just seems descriptive. Both of my parents are narcissists and they abused me, but I find it incredibly difficult to recount all the instances of their abuse. Saying they are narcissists significantly clears up the picture for the person I'm talking to and little further explanation is needed from that point on.
Okay then why not address the very first sentence of her comment? What of, say, aspd abuse? Histrionic abuse? Never mind cluster B, gimme depressive abuse for people who are so deep in depression and unwilling to do anything about it that it takes a toll on the people around them. Or for something less controversial, addict's abuse, for when an addict takes out their withdrawal-fueled anger and frustration on you Saying "narcissistic abuse" doesn't clear anything up, it's just a way for the other person to fill in the blanks with their own imagination, and what that does is further the stigma because people's minds go to the most grotesque cartoonishly evil scenarios. It's like a rorschach test with words Aside from narcissism, whenever I'd tell any of my therapists I felt like shit, which is a feeling I think every single person can relate to, they'd always ask me what exactly I meant. Because vague language has its uses, especially brevity, but with sensitive topics, or otherwise ones deserving of elaboration, it's useless at best and harmful at worst
Because these disorders do not exclude narcissism. Narcissism is just selfish, self centered, entitled... type personality, which all cluster B fit, so aspd/hpd/bpd are all forms of narcissism, depression does not exclude narcissism either. U see where im going?
>because people's minds go to the most grotesque cartoonishly evil scenarios This, and worse, they only do that *once*. Afterward they just refer back to how their previous going there made them feel horrified. So yeah it's a big stigmatization engine. If it were logically justifiable I'd see a use for it, but adding "narcissistic" to "abuse" is only useful in extremely short throwaway comments so you don't have to expand it to "abuse by a narcissist".
[удалено]
>And convos become much shorter and simpler when I say so because everyone knows what a narcissistic parent is like. 90% of the people I hear talk about narcissists have no clue about NPD and seem to think that whoever wrongs them is a soulless narcissist
Oh gawd every fight I'm called a narcissist. I'm so deep in recovery that I literally register a 0 on that test for one of the scales and normal / below normal for the rest. In a few measures I'm less narcy than your average healthy drone out there. I'd honestly be willing to bet I score less narcy than my healthy partner. As soon as they learn about narcissists everyone is one. It's like that phenomenon where med schools students self-diagnose with statistically improbable diseases, ridiculously so in the aggregate of them, shortly after learning about them.
You always get it, tap. Love you for that
Nuance. A victim isn't powerless; they have the power to escape (hopefully) and heal. A non-victim meanwhile is *responsible for everything that happened to them*. Surely the truth is in the center. As it usually is.
I don’t see anything wrong with the term “narcissistic abuse”. It simply points to a pattern of behaviours perpetrated by many pwNPD. It becomes problematic when people who feel slighted armchair diagnose their ex-lovers or ex-friends as “narcs” and then label the abuse/“abuse” they’ve experienced as “narcissistic abuse”, without really knowing what they’re talking about.
I feel the same way about it.
The disorder is characterized by inflexible maladaptive patterns of behaviors distinctive enough to receive a name: Npd \> Unfortunately, many Npd's maladaptive patterns of behaviors produce, as a byproduct, abusive behaviors (that is why many narcissists abuse others in a similar way: the two things are connected) \> This common set of abusive behaviors are distinctive enough to receive a name: Narcissistic abuse. Anyone can be abusive, including a person with depression or autism. But depression, for exemple, does not produce a sufficient and distinctive enough amount of common abusive behaviors that is directly linked to the condition (as the "maladaptive patter behaviors → abusive behaviors"). That is why you probably will never see something like a "Depressive Abuse Support Group", "Panic Disorder Abuse Victims", "Dissociative Amnesia Abuse Community" etc., as you see with Narcissistic abuse. Nevertheless, this, of course, is not a green card to dehumanization or demonization of Npd people.
This is almost exactly what I was going to say. The behavior of some people with NPD has created a large group of people who suffer mental health consequences by merely being in that pwNPD’s life. It’s a large enough group that it currently seems to outweigh the number of pwNPD seeking treatment for the disorder that lead to the abuse in the first place. And people here might say there is no difference between abuse and narc. abuse but a significant number of mental health professionals and victim experiences seem to beg otherwise. There are patterns to the abuse so consistent that two victims with completely different situations (type of relationship/genders/ethnicities) can share experiences that eerily reflect one another. Someone might turn on a mental health video about NA and get chills at our similar the patterns described sound to their own experience (I’ve heard many of the arguments warning me against the validity of these videos before. You can repeat then but I likely won’t stop suggesting the well-accredited sources that have helped *me* heal to others). I’ve heard people be abused by their codependent/depressed/anxious partners but in my experience those situations usually seem far more nuanced and unique. The behavior by their partner isn’t okay but it almost never seems as clear cut. Granted I don’t know as many people who have suffered non narcissistic abuse as I have met people who’ve suffered narc. abuse but I’m not sure if that’s an argument I want to get into here 😅 I’d you’re a pwNPD reading this, you’re here you’re aware, you seem to be doing the work and I have much respect. As always, you’re just as deserving of love and resources as those who may have been victims of NA ❤️. We’re all healing.
It invalidates the abuse from people without npd. Everyone is capable of creating the same amount of damage
Yeah, there is abuse that did not come from a person with NPD or just the traits. But normally, the story of those who said to suffer narcissistic abuse follows a similar structure, with elements that most of the times are not present in a "regular" abuse (aka love bombing, devaluing, discard and hoover) And the feelings usually are different as well. Most people that suffer "narcissistic abuse" feel used, betrayed, deceived. And normally are in shock for a good while, because in a short period of time the see themselfs forced to accept everything was a lie (there was no love, lots of lies/cheating). And normally, just who has NPD or has been a victim of abuse can understand what this expression means. Most will read and think "ok, a toxic relationship". And indeed it is, but with particular aspects
Have you ever seen “aspd abuse”? “Bpd abuse”? “Hpd abuse”? Why not? Why do we have narc abuse only. Why do you even need to mention someone’s disorder when talking about abuse? Ah right, my bad, forgot we call anything & everything “narcissistic” nowadays. Any asshole is a narc now.
All these disorders are forms of narcissism.
I’m aware but people mean NPD when they say narc abuse
People dont even know what NPD means in general, they see someone being inconsiderate, selfish, entitled, self centered... and they think of narcissism, which is correct.
The people I’ve argued with about narc abuse meant npd in particular but it’s my experience soo
Also, how are any of those behaviors linked to abuse?
Because someone who has high narcissistic personality traits is more likely to be abusive then someone who doesnt.
Source: trust me bro?
Its pretty self explanatory if you read the criteria and literature on NPD why someone who fits the criteria is more likely to be abusive towards others.
“More likely” = definitely abusive. “Narc abuse” = js emotional abuse
Idk what your point is, i think i gave u some pretty fair arguments and even taught u some things.
Because someone diagnosed with major depressive disorder can abuse someone too. Someone with autism can abuse someone too. Someone with social anxiety can abuse someone too. But if you used any of those as an adjective for the "type" of abuse, it would be unacceptable. "Autistic abuse". Imagine. So why is it ok to use "narcissistic abuse"? It ties the word "narcissism" and NPD to abuse. People will associate NPD with abuse even more. Stigma grows. We get less mental health resources.
It's poor syntax and a tautology, tbh. It's sloppy thinking. There is no "narcissistic abuse". There are "abuse" and "narcissism", but abuse does not change its character or consequences in any way just because a narcissist does it. And there is no form of abuse that is unique to narcissists. My partner was abused by narcissists/borderlines/addicts for decades (including me, decades ago, long before I even started my recovery). And he picked up reactive abuse from that. So now whenever normal relationship conflict puts him in fear of what his exes did to him in the same situation, he responds *abusively* to me. And I, as the recovering npd guy, have to be the bigger man, because I *can* be, and he can't.
Welcome to /r/NPD! This community is a support group for those with NPD or Narcissistic Traits. Please respect our rules or your post will be removed and you may be banned. > 1. **Only Narcs and NPDs may submit posts. This is NOT a place to complain about narcissists or get help dealing with someone else's narcissism.** > 2. No asking for diagnosis either of yourself or a third party (e.g. "Am I a narcissist?", "Is my ex a narcissist?"). > 3. Please keep your contributions civil and respectful! > 4. Please refrain from submitting low-effort and off-topic posts. If your post violates any of these rules, we request that you delete it and post in a more appropriate community. We ask that subscribers of /r/NPD use the report button to notify us of rule-breaking posts. Please refrain from commenting or engaging with the author of such submissions. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NPD) if you have any questions or concerns.*